Fresno State Football Offensive Coordinator Pat McCann

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Episode Transcript

(00:02):
All right, all right, allright, welcome back to the Bringing the
Juice. My name is Frank Alanta. Today we got Fresno State offensive coordinator
Pat McCann on the pod. Theboys are bop and getting a little roddy.
Pat. Welcome to Bring the Juice. It's an honor. I've been
waiting for it. I'm fired upfor it. Pat. Let's start on
your background real quick. Played ballat Western Washington. Then coaching career started

(00:24):
at Stonehill College in Massachusetts, whichthat's going to be my first question,
Todavis to Northern Iowa to Eastern Washington, and now you're with us in the
dogs at Fresno State. Let's juststart with your last college game. Did
you always know you're going to getinto coaching, Was it kind of a
transition period or how that talked tome about back? I knew I wanted
to coach. Really, it waskind of going back and forth between do

(00:45):
I want to coach high school footballor college football? But I knew I
wanted to coach. And so whenI was finishing up my senior year,
my head coach, he basically broughtme in said, because what we had
was we had our often the coordinatorwas quarterbacks and receivers, okay, and
so he brought me in. Hesaid, hey, I would love to
just to literally transition you into thereceiver job. Oh and let you know,

(01:10):
let Fence go coach the quarterbacks andyou'd be the receivers coach. So
that was the original bought. Butthen you know, I was trying to
do the pro day thing. Iwas trying to keep playing right. So
basically it's kind of one of thosethings where he said, you know,
if it works out great, youknow, if it doesn't, then you've
got a job here, you know, as an entry level coach with us.
So that was the plan originally,but that was kind of how I

(01:32):
made the transition, going, Okay, you know what, I have an
opportunity coaching college football. That's whatI'm going to do. And so did
you ever actually coach there at WesternWashington? So he talked to me about
that in December, right after mysenior season ended, just as we come
back in January. First week backin January, I was starting to train
for my pro day and then WesternWashington drop football and you played in the

(01:53):
last I played in the last seasonlast game. Was that a blindsided thing,
totally blindside. Wow, that's financialreasons. So they dropped football.
Uh, you know, it's oneof those things that were looking for a
quick way to take you know,five hundred grand a year off the books.
Yeah, they did it. Andso they dropped football, you know,
just kind of out of the blue. Yeah. And so it was

(02:14):
one of those things where Okay,I'm already you know now made the pro
day thing a little more of apriority. Yeah. But then it was
like, okay, this doesn't work. I gotta I gotta find a job.
You got a job this point,I really committed as in coach college
football at that point. Wow.Holy, I mean that's lucky that I
guess you could say that, youknow, it was your senior season.

(02:34):
I I could not imagine the situation, like there's a lot of things going
on in the college football landscape now, but to have the rug pulled underneath
you if you're I'm sure you hadbuddies that were younger that were just like
they'd like, now, what typeof thing that's that's that's a hard one.
It was, you know, itwas you know, and it worked
out really well for some guys.Some guys got some opportunities, you know,
as a result of it, becauseyou get kind of a free transfer

(02:57):
at that point, right. Uh. For some guys that worked out,
and then some guys, you know, I think it was just one of
those things where guys had to reallymake a decision they want to keep playing
or not, you know, butthat was it. Definitely it was hard
to watch because it didn't really affectme, you know, the same way
that would have affected me if Iwas if I had another year or two
or three left, right, Butyou know, it was hard to watch
for those guys. Well, youput passion. I mean, football is

(03:17):
an emotional game where no matter whereyou are, like you put passion into
a program and everything, it justmeans a little bit more because you do
put in all that sweat, equityand the literal things that I'm sure now
after the fact that you remember you'replaying days no matter I've been on successful

(03:37):
teams and teams that aren't successful,and like you remember the boys basically and
to have those memories and like youcan't go back and reminisce of oh these
are old stomping grounds and that's tough, man, But you end up from
that the furthest part west of thecountry to like two thousand miles away,
I'm going to Massachusetts. How didthat come about? Well, honestly,

(04:02):
I saw a job posting online.Wow. When I read it, it
said the person of contact was theoffensive coordinator there. You know, I
looked at the name. I waslike, man, I swear so I
had a coach at my JC thatI played at down southern California. Uh.
I was like, I swear that'shis brother. Yeah, you know,
And so I reached out to myold coach. I said, hey,

(04:23):
you know, is this your brother? Said yeah, And then just
kind of that got the ball rollingbecause then I was like, cool,
he's got a job opening, applyfor it. And then he you know,
he reached out to him and justliterally just kind of worked out that,
you know, that connection happened.What what I read on the present
State website you were a wide receivercoach slash video coordinator. Well at that

(04:46):
level, you know, it wasn'treally a GA job. It was like,
you're the receivers coach, but youdo GA duty, you know,
you're doing all that. I mean, yeah, it doesn't say on there
probably that you know, I wasresponsible for the weightlifting program, for the
strength conditioning program in the off season, in in season lifting, right,
uh, you know video uh youknow, I mean you just kind of

(05:10):
just absorbed jobs, you know,and that's just kind of what you do
at that level because your staff's justbuilt different. You know. We had
some guys who were high school teacherscome over after school. I mean,
it was just the staff structure wasjust different. So yeah, I learned
more about video stuff than I mean, I'm I'll never forget that first game
and I'm trying to upload the film. I'm there till like two in the

(05:32):
morning and we're supposed to have itup by midnight, and you know,
file errors. I don't. I'mnot a technology there going like you got
to be getting it's so frustrating too, It's so frustrating. So but yeah,
it just kind of taught me like, Okay, well I gotta get
it done. I got to figureit out. Yeah, you know,
you can't just not have film exactly. So I mean it's a unique situation,

(05:55):
like you said, but that hadto have been a pretty pretty cool
foundation and resting places like this ismy first gig. It had to have
had a lot to do with thesuccess you've had as a coach now,
I mean it definitely lays the likeI said, the foundation of some principles
and you learn more just being aga, like you got to go through
those struggles of how videography works.Maybe you know now, like what this

(06:16):
guy's looking for, think this,that or the other. But how has
that affected you first that first job? You think, well, I think
the big thing that I look atis even though I was doing all those
other duties, I was still thereceivers coach, and so I was still
running meetings, I was still runningdrills, I was still coaching those guys.

(06:40):
I was coaching those guys on gameday. And I look at coaching
like any other skill, you know. I think it's a reps thing.
I think you get better over time, and you get better with reps if
you learn and get better. AndI think the big thing for me was,
even though I was doing all thoseother jobs, I was still getting
the reps of coaching all the time. And it didn't matter if I was

(07:00):
going and working a camp in thesummer, you know, and coaching at
it, or if I was coachingmy own guys. I was always coaching,
even though I was doing those things, so I kind of learned a
lot of different areas and a lotof different responsibilities. But at the same
time, I was always coaching,and I think that that's led to over
the years, just banked reps ofcoaching. Right before we continue, quick
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(07:24):
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(07:46):
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(08:11):
up to one hundred dollars. Consideringthe fact that you went through that journey
and then you come back towards thewest coast, right you hit Davis Northern
Iowa, which you know a littlebit of zigzag back towards towards the east.
Uh then at eastern Washington now Fresno. As you've gone through that journey,
you mentioned reps as coaching, whatis what is the what was the

(08:31):
biggest let's start the biggest culture shockwhen you started off, Like, what's
the biggest change going from player tocoach? I'm sure it has to be
missing it as part of it aswell, right, you just know it.
I want to get out there andshow you in cleats type thing.
Well, especially especially when you're young. That's what I'm saying. You just
got like, like you know,and I was still in good shape,
and because I've been also trying tokeep playing. Yeah, and so in

(08:52):
my mind I'm like, man,like, I'm still like my best football
should still be ahead of me,like getting better right now. And then
I'll of a sudden having to takea step back, and now it's i
mean football done. That's that's thethat's the toughest transition. So it's a
hard reality. And and I thinkthe other side of it is I firmly
believe that like players, they don'treally care what you did as a player.

(09:16):
I mean they do sometimes like theydo like they could respect you more
maybe, but like you know,like me getting out there and showing them
something like that's not really you know, it's really about like what are we
doing for them? Right? Right? So at the end of the day,
it comes down to their development,like yeah, coach, cool,
you can do that, but like, help me do that, Like help

(09:39):
me do that, not just showme that you can do it better than
me or you know whatever. Youknow. I think that that's I think
that's a huge part of it.When you say reps is there is that
do you count a rep as apractice, as a game coach as a
whole going through an entire season?And I'm sure that's yes to each of
those probably, But how do youattack each day basically, so especially in

(10:07):
season, it's easier just because youhaven't clearly defined opponent, right, But
you know, I look at itlike and I try I try to teach
this to our current GA Keishan.You know, I try to teach this
to Brailin. You know, Ifirmly believe this is that Like, for
example, if you're playing Boise Stateand I come in on Tuesday morning for

(10:28):
Boise State, my meeting on Tuesdaymorning before practice needs to be better than
the Boise State DB's coach on Tuesdaymorning. And when I go out to
practice, then my practice needs tobe better than his practice and so on,
you know, and I just useBoise but like it's just week to
week in the off season, it'skind of pick a coach, pick a
team, whoever. But my likeI want to be the best in the

(10:50):
country at what I do. Mymeeting needs to be the best in the
country. And one of the thingsthat I think has helped me a little
bit is I've I'm really big onreflecting and like evaluating myself and looking back
on things. And so you know, there's been time where I walked out
of a meeting. I'm like,man, like that didn't flow great,
right, you know, or hey, that was you know that practice,
like I was talking too much duringan individual and not coaching, not getting

(11:13):
enough done like I was. Youknow, we won't get enough reps,
you know whatever. So I tryto sit back and reflect on that because
I really do believe that it's justabout how do you approach it and how
you frame it to yourself, youknow. And I think it comes down
to when I show up in themorning to when I go home, like
I've got to beat whoever I'm goingagainst. Yeah, and maybe it's myself.

(11:33):
Maybe I'm competing with myself. Igot to be better than I was
yesterday, you know. But Ireally try to create that environment in my
head more than anything. So yeah, I mean, it sounds like you
have a and I admire this aboutmost of my guess and you including were
there's a standard here, you know, there's there's a certain standard any true
competitor who's been on championship winning teamslike I know you have, like you

(11:56):
If you do not uphold the standard, not just sometimes, but every single
day, it's just not going towork out the way it's supposed to,
like whether you think it or not. Rent is due every single day.
And I like how you mentioned,you know, and I say this too.
In season, what do the fansknow? Fans know football season as

(12:18):
what September to December for the mostpart, right, they don't realize win
loser draw. January fifteenth. Yougot practice, you got winter ball,
you got the spring ball where youcan't take hitting your lockermate and the other
color jersey on your team. Like, you go through these summer workouts and

(12:39):
then the people don't have no ideaunless you've been in it what fall camp
is. It's like, oh yeah, no, they're trying to put the
pads on, Like, no,man, this is where is the fan?
And I think, you know,it's easy to get fired up to
go compete when you're playing a boiseAn, Eastern Purdue, a Bama whatever

(13:00):
the hell. It is like youhave a target in front of you and
you could see the mountain that youneed to climb. I think when it's
not in season and you can't seethat mountain that you need to climb,
you just got to put your headdown and know that you got to go
full speed uphill and you don't knowwhen you're gonna get at the top of
that thing. That's a hard thingto kind of figure out. And even

(13:22):
personally, it's like, how doI know when it's time to look up
and oh, did I do goodenough? Because as much as I just
watched this The Swamp Kings the Floridathe Florida documentary, right, and they
need some stuff, And I'm like, I've never seen that before in a
college they were mainly the biggest thingwas them doing like the full on like

(13:43):
wrestling drills and stuff like that,the Matt drills. I've never seen that
before. But it makes you think, like, what are other programs in
the country doing. And like yousaid, I got to compare it to
Boise, I gotta compare it toWashington whatever school out there. But when
you don't have a clear opponent aheadof you and you got to have that,
that's something that voice in your headthat says, keep going, raise

(14:05):
the standard, demand perfection. Ineed to be great because like anything,
as a coach, like if you'renot chasing greatness and setting the tone,
how the hell are the players supposedto follow, no matter how much good
leadership is in that room. SoI guess what I should ask is so
I went on a little tangent rightthere, but I was feeling myself for
a second. But but but I'msaying, like if you when you got

(14:28):
to climb the mountain that you don'tknow what the distance is to the top
of what is the voice in yourhead that keeps you get it out of
bed to kick it? Like,like, why is that inner drive?
Yeah, it's I don't want tosound generic with it, but it's.
But I firmly believe in trying tobe the best version of yourself. Yes,

(14:52):
that's like to me. I thinkthat's what it comes down to,
is literally trying to be the bestversion myself. Every day. When I
wake up in the morning, Itell I tell them series of all the
time, Like when I wake upin the morning. The only thing I
control is I can control is whatI look like up here, behave all
that. That's what I control.I can influence behavior, but I can't

(15:13):
control their behavior. I can influencetheir performance, but I can't control their
performance. But I can show up. I can look prepared, I could
be prepared. I can dress thepart, I can make sure that my
energy is right, all those thingsthat can hopefully affect other people. But
it comes back to being the bestversion of me, you know. And

(15:35):
that's one of the things that Ithink I've gotten better at over time,
Like I said, just reflecting backon things and going Okay, what what
was good about today? And whatwasn't you know, and I as the
better I do it that and checkingin on myself. Then I start looking
at it, going what was theissue today? You know I wasn't I
wasn't great today? You know,well, I you know, maybe it

(15:56):
was my sleep, maybe it waswhat I did going to bed maybe or
whatever. I have matured in thatway as an adult to be able to
reflect back and be honest with myselfabout like what what did I do differently?
Or what did I do wrong?Or what did I do well?
Like what what was it? Whatwas the preparation, what was you know
the things that kind of factored intothat. So to me, it comes
back to the best version of you. Like that's that's the that's the standard.

(16:19):
It is control the control will bethe best version yourself you could possibly
be. I say it every day. I pray it every day. Dear
God, help me be the bestversion of myself I could be today.
It's all you could do. Andyou know, I like your accountabilities off
the roof right now? Would doyou do anything formal to check check yourself?
Do you say, hey, beforeI go to bed, I'm brushing

(16:41):
my teeth or whatever the hell itis. Like I need to reevaluate how
my day was. Do you havea journal or do you take notes on
it? Check a box? Iknow people have different strategies on it.
Like me, I got a longdrive. I drive seventy two miles to
work and seventy two miles from work, and I'm by myself. So like
one of those drives is usually whenit's dark out, there's no cars on

(17:03):
the road, so you you forgethow you even got there near in the
mornings, but you got so muchtime. And I got a little notebook
next to my I have all thesenotebooks in my truck, back of envelopes,
and like that's when I do myevaluating planning for the day. What
are we going to do to kidstoday? What? What? What did
we mess up on yesterday? That? Hey little little self reflection slap into

(17:29):
face, like get together on thisend. Do you do have anything that
you do, because I know guysoperate a high level, they do some
crazy Yeah, I've got a Ikeep notes on my phone. I've got
a million different kind of ongoing runningnotes things. You know. I've got
one that just kind of lessons thatI've learned in coaching over the years,
you know, and so when somethinglike really big has happened, it just

(17:51):
goes into the lessons and coaching notes, you know. And you know,
I've got a Google doc of,you know, just things that I've learned
from coach effort, you know,like it's literally a Google doc of just
like a running like coach Teddy notessection. You know that it's just kind
of like I got free game aroundme. Yeah. I do try and
make sure that I that I makenote of things the best I can.

(18:12):
I don't have anything formal, uh, you know, it might be just
kind of reflecting on as I drivehome or whatever, you know, But
I don't necessarily do anything like formalyou know, to start the day or
later. But you know, Iam a you know, my face important
to me too. Like for me, it's you know, humble yourself.
Like I got to look when Italk about from accountability standpoint, I got

(18:33):
to look at it and go,what my process good enough? Right?
That's I think that's a huge partof it. So I think that's part
of just humbling yourself a little bit. So that's one of the things that
I try to make sure that Iregularly do is was I good enough to
All this goes hand in hand with, you know, the mental side of
what you're going through as as acoach. There's the excess and O side,

(18:55):
which is, you know, that'sits own thing. We could get
into a little bit, but mentallyyou're checking yourself. But you're also a
man of influence with guys eighteen totwenty two year olds that have a lot
of testosterone and are hungry to chasegreatness. Do you have a way you
help the players that you've coached mentallygrow and prove. And being a guy

(19:18):
at your level who's been in thegame for all these years, what percent
you think the game is now mentallycomparative physically because we over here it's ninety
percent mental, ten percent physical.I don't know if that's you know,
I fugazi fugazi or not, Butwhat's your take on that. I would
look at it like it's because Idon't. I don't. I think the

(19:38):
main thing is with that sports arephysical. Yeah, Like sports are physical?
Yeah, Like you could be physicallylimited at certain yeah, yeah,
you know sport and you can alsomaximize your ability physically. You know,
like sports are physical. So Ireally look at it kind of three like,
kind of like it's like a threeprong deal. I believe that sports

(20:00):
or physical, mental, and emotional, you know, and so I look
at it like those are all equal. Like if you're not emotionally invested at
the same level that you are physically, you know, you can work really
hard in the weight room, likejust you can work hard because it's just
kind of you're surrounded by everybody.But like, if you're not emotionally invested,
you're not going to go the extraon that. From a physical standpoint,

(20:22):
you know, I think you cancheck out. Mentally, I think
you can not be invested in mentalyou know. From a mental standpoint,
I think you can struggle with mentalskills as far as whether it's confidence,
whether it's focused whatever. You know. I think there's a lot of mental
skills. Now on the flip side, I have a sports site guy by
education, So for me, Idon't want to minimize the mental side of
it. Yeah, but I thinkthat I also think the the play the

(20:48):
emphasis that's placed on physical development,you can place a high level of mental
skills development too, And I thinkthat's where it's still I think it's thirds.
You know, take your mental healthand emotional health. You need to
there's mental skills that you need totrain, right, but if you don't
train them and they those are probablythe most undertrained part. Yeah, and

(21:11):
then there's the physical side, whichis probably the most overtrained part. Absolutely,
you know. So I look atit kind of it's still thirty three
thirty three third, you know whatI mean. I still think it's of
a game. What's uh? Andwe know how to improve, Like as
a wide receiver, you could physicallyis the easiest one to learn how to
improve, as crazy as that sounds, because physically is where the plays are
made. But like, is thereany way mentally that you think there's a

(21:36):
secret There's no secret sauce out there, but what's a mental you know,
exercise drill evaluation that you think isis critical for guys. And in the
position that you're looking after, Ithink refocusing because you know, whether it's
good or bad, you need tofocus. Next play mentality type vibe,
you know, And we talked.I talked to the offense. I thought

(21:57):
receivers all the time, you know, next plays my best play every single
time. Next play is my bestplay. That's that's written across the top
of my cult Next is my bestplay. But I think the refocus element
of it. I think the abilityto handle pressure and understand like, you

(22:18):
know, like this pressure help meor not help me, and being able
to have awareness of that. Andyou know, some people are like,
oh, I thrive under pressure,and then like you start kind of digging,
You're like, dude, pressure isnot good for you. Yeah,
like it's not you know, butsome guys like they need like they do
thrive under pressure. So you know, some guys need to build games up
to themselves or build things up tothemselves. You know. I look at

(22:38):
you know, Jake Hayner, youknow, is a good example of it.
You know, Jake did a greatjob of kind of like the underdog
mentality is like a thing where hethrives in them like pressure, Like he
puts pressure on himself, but it'slike the right amount of pressure figuring that
out. I think that those arethe types of skills and like have an
awareness, you know, and andyou now it is some guys they get

(22:59):
so excited that they're really like paralyzed. They're so wound up and their heart's
going. They're so pumped, butthey can't do anything because they're literally so
high strung. You probably shouldn't getyourself so high strong then, because you're
already high strung. You know,like, if you're naturally high strong,
you probably don't need more people guessingit up for somebody that maybe you do

(23:19):
need a little bit of a book. So I think that those are some
of the things that I think thatdoes separate the people that can kind of
manage those things. Before we continueout, to have a quick word to
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(23:42):
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few things Pat as an OC,you know, first of all, is

(24:07):
it difficult being both a position coachand an OC is there any challenge to
doing both? Is it? Isthere also any advantages you think to doing
both at the same time. Thechallenges are, You're responsible for a lot
of stuff, responsible for the offenseand responsible for a lot of things,

(24:33):
but at the same time, youhave a key part of the offense as
far as you know, like aposition that you are absolutely that there is
some built in challenges with that.Uh. You know, I'm passionate about
coaching the receivers, you know,like that's something that that I am passionate
about. So you know, naturally, you know, like my eyes gravitate

(24:55):
towards what the receivers are doing duringpractice. Yeah, I might, you
know, just what the left tacklesdo because I'm trying to see what the
receivers are doing or whatever. Butyou know, I think the main emphasis
for me has been the fact thatI'm not with the quarterbacks, and so
I've got to make sure I'm veryintentional about creating time with them throughout the

(25:17):
week and communicate with them. I'mfortunate I've got really good guys around me
on the staff, you know,and like Matt Wade does a great job
with the quarterbacks. We work welltogether. So it's like there's not a
lot of disconnects, but this issomething where that's a challenge that is,
but one of the built and challengesfor me that I have to be conscious
of. Yeah, well, Imean you're a shepherd looking after a sheep,

(25:40):
as one might say, like it'sa lot to look after. And
people forget too. I think theydon't understand the outside. It's like,
Okay, if you were to sayhow many people are on offense, you'd
say eleven, but you don't realizethere's what one hundred and five hundred and
ten guys on a football team,fifty of them are on offense or skip
or tape where there might be youknow, seventeen oh alignement, fifteen receivers,

(26:04):
ten running backs, blah blah blahblah blah, all these quarterbacks.
So it's hard and you know,like this time of year things are kind
of already evaluated. But the othertimes a year where you know, everyone's
got a fresh slate, who wasinjured last year, who's coming back?
The guy who was good last year, are they still good this year?
The guy who's kind of in thesleeper, Holy crap, Look he's improved.
And that's a lot to just evaluate. I feel like as a as

(26:30):
somebody looking after your sheep to putit in you know sheep terms, but
what and you kind of just describedit. But being an offensive minded coach,
I know that you've kind of youknow, you've you've climbed the ladder
and coach tedford Is. I meanpeople would pay, people would pay to
freaking pick his brain about offensive mindedstuff. But do you think that you

(26:56):
know, finding your identity as anOC is it's something where you're gonna take
all the different bits and pieces ofthe places you've been and you develop an
offense. Is it something where youwant to just adjust constantly to the personnel
that you have, whatever year itmight be. Or are you more of
like I want to recruit guys becauseI want to run this type thing and
you could get into that as muchas you like. Yeah, it's a

(27:18):
little bit of all of it.Like I look at I've been really fortunate
to be at some different places andsome we were better at football than others.
Sure you know, uh not sports. Yeah, you know our wins
and losses, but I took bitsand pieces and maybe not as much X
as and o's from different places butwhether it's a mentality thing. Uh,

(27:41):
you know, I mean I lookat you know, my influence at Northern
Iowa was probably more than anything wasit was a defensive minded head coach that
was very involved, kind of onboth sides of the ball, really smart.
Yeah, they play they play elitedefense, elead defense, and there'd
be days where that mean they wouldjust kill us on offense, like I

(28:04):
mean their defense, but our defensewould be stifling on offense. And it
was just kind of like, that'sjust what happened there, you know,
That's just what happened at the time, you know. And what I learned
was that that's a mentality driven thing. Like they're doing similar stuff to everybody
else on defense, but they're coachingin a little bit better. And the
mentality piece. I go to EasternWashington and that's totally reversed, you know,

(28:29):
all of a sudden. You know, that's an offensive, mentality driven
place, like you know, andthere'd be days where the defense would get
us, but like the offense run, the offense drives the boat. And
I learned on the flip side ofit, man, like it's a mentality
thing. We did. We wererunning the same place at Eastern that we
did here and so on. Youknow, like everyone everybody football, everybody

(28:49):
in football runs the same place.Well, I just I've learned it's a
lot of mentality driven stuff. Andthen it's and then it comes down to
the details of what you coach.That's where I think, you know,
one of the big separators here isjust the level of detail that we coach
with the quality of coaching, youknow, Like I think that that's goes
back to the standards thing we talkedabout. And so I think to answer

(29:12):
your questions a little bit of allof it. I think one, I
think it's a mentality driven thing.You would love to recruit guys to be
able to kind of do some differentthings. There's some stuff that I would
love to do offensively that we're doingor could do, you know, because
we have the personnel to do it. But you have to continue to recruit
those guys, you know, andthen you know, you always you always

(29:37):
want to adjust and kind of staycurrent and stay you know, on the
the offensive of a better for ofa better way to put it like that's
we're the offense. We're the oneswith the with the with the pen first,
you know, so we want tomake sure that we're always doing that.
But I think you're always trying tostay ahead of the curve. But
I think it always comes back tothe mentality more and then you know,

(30:00):
we say, like iron sharpens iron, How does like like from an offensive
mind, like we're talking, howdo you get more tools in your toolbox
as you continue to develop? Well, I think one like it's a huge
buss. And I got Kevin Coyle, who is a phenomenal defensive football coach,
just talking football and learning stuff froma defensive standpoint what they're thinking.

(30:25):
I mean, you know, hecreated a cut up of stuff that you
know they had seen last year,like, hey, this is hard on
defense. So he gave me itwas like one hundred and thirteen plays,
you know, and maybe it wasthe same play just different ways, sure,
but it's one hundred and thirteen oflike, hey, like this is
hard on defenses, Well it's hardon Kevin Coyle like, I probably need
to look at what you know.And that's what I learned in Northern Iowa.

(30:47):
It was a lot more defensive football. I learned more defensive football in
my two years in Northern Iowa thanI had in my entire you know,
thirty four years of life to thatpoint. Yeah wow, And so yeah,
you know, I think that that'sone of the big things. It's
like, okay, you know,you think like, oh, this draws
up cool. Yeah, you know, this is sweet. This looks sweet
on the board. But then youknow, a defensive coach might go like,
we should be able to stop that, you know, like you know,

(31:11):
or they look at it and yougo, yeah, that's hard to
defend, Like I want the stuffthat's hard to defend. You start talking
when you start talking about iron sharpensiron, like, to me, a
lot of the development piece is isthat, uh you know, I look,
you look at the NFL, andit's a little bit different game because
the ball is based in the middleof the field all the time. So
it's you know, you look atit different. You know, the hashes

(31:32):
are different like that. That's abig People don't realize how a good deal.
It is, huge deal, hugedeal. So you sit there and
you know, all that concept isgreat, but they're running it technically to
the boundary in the field, youknow, like and so then we try
and get it, you try andget the spacing right. So you have
to be careful doing that, butyou know, studying people doing it at
the highest level. I'm a bigsuccess leaves clues guy, you know,
so I look heavily at what peopleare doing when they have success. I'm

(31:55):
well, I'm not gonna lie.I look at it like, you know,
like some of you say, oh, you know, we do it
this way, and it's like,oh cool, Well you weren't very good.
So I'm gonna some a better answerthan right for me. I want
to look at what people are doingat a high level success driven. I
mean, does that mean do youlook at you know not? I feel

(32:17):
like as a receiver, I shouldbacktrack here. As a receiver, you
study other receivers that are successful.You're gonna watch guys and we could get
into who your top five all timeare at the end here. But are
you watching other offensive coordinators now?At this point? Is that is that
when you watch last you know,Thursday night football was last night, for
instance, are you watching the offenseas a whole and judging that oc more

(32:42):
and more or do you have idolsoffensive coordator idols at this point that the
Lions being one of them? Wow, I think that the Lions do a
phenomenal job schematically yeah, you know, so, yes, I do.
That's awesome, you know, AndI think that's one of the one of
the things that over time i've youknow again, I look at, man,

(33:02):
like, these guys do stuff.It's hard on defenses, and you
know, you really look at youknow, a lot of stuff draws up
great, but if you don't havethe players to do it and so,
you know, or or the rightplayers to do the way that you want
to get done. And so Ithink that's one of the big things,
is looking at stuff that's similar tous and similar from a vision standpoint of

(33:27):
what we want to do and whatwe are, you know. But yeah,
as that goes, you know what, as your personnel evolves and stuff
like that, you know, maybethat list kind of evolves as far as
guys that you know, but there'ssome guys you look at it and you
go, man, they just doa great job adapting to their personnel.
They're obviously great coaches because you know, one year they're doing this, but
this year maybe their quarterbacks totally adifferent player. Well, now they're doing

(33:50):
this. Well, they evolved totheir personnel and found a way to get
it done. Those are the typesof coaches that that I really kind of
gravitate, is there? And Icould? I mean, you think about
like the certain freaks in the NFL, Like you put Devanta Adams on an
island one on one. There isn'treally very very much offensive coordinator savvy to

(34:13):
that necessarily, besides, I wantto get him isolated knowing the defense is
gonna adjust this way or in thered zone you're going either slant or fade
or something like that. Throw itup. That's just football at that point.
But is there certain situations that yousee where it's like as as successful.
Let's bring it back to like theAaron Rodgers Green Bay days. Okay,

(34:37):
there were certain situations where Aaron Rodgers, everyone in the stadium, everyone
on TV knew Aaron Rodgers going tosnap it and throw it up to DeVonta
Adams and they're gonna score a touchdown. Probably is that like a feather in
the cap of an offensive coordinator oris that just like, hey, we
got the right personnel man, andI know that's like a needle in a

(34:58):
haystack to have that scenario in football, Like obviously there's very few guys in
college that are of that stature ofDeVante Adams and Aaron Rodgers chemistry. But
is that is that even like askill or is that just like they got
Davante Adams type of thing? Alittle bit of both, you know,
I think that you know sometimes youknow, take your ego out of it,

(35:19):
like stop trying to draw the perfectplay, Like, man, I
bet DeVante Adams over there. Whywouldn't I do that? Right? You
Like, I'm gonna sit here andtry and out think they're coordinator and all
that when I could do that.Well on the flip side, if I
do isolate him and I can gettwo guys to go, you know,
they're gonna burn a second defender overthere, right, Hey, you're not

(35:39):
gonna do that. Now, Igot number. Now, I got to
have an answer on the other side. So to me, like that's the
that's the feather in the cap iswhen it's like, okay, cool,
Like I got you to I gotyou to burn two over there. So
now I'm playing you know ten onnine over here. Well, now what
am I doing? Right? Well, if I don't have a better answer,

(36:00):
they're cool. They burned too overthere and they defended me with one
less guy. Huh, that's youknow, so that I think that's where
you got to look at it andgo, man, we yeah, we
created that isolation. We we gotthem to adjust. Now what's our answer
on the other side when that's good? Yeah, that's in the cap.
Is there? From an offensive coordatorstandpoint, do you guys like after a

(36:20):
game, do you get is itlike the similar to a head coach shaking
another head coach's hand, like,is it similar respect offensive coordinator offensive coordinator?
Or is it more like offensive coordinatorsaying what's up to like the defensive
minded people type thing. Probably alittle bit of both, Yeah, at
this point, like a lot oftimes, you know, of the notes,
right, that's what I'm saying,But probably a little bit of both.

(36:42):
Yeah, you know, I thinkespecially you know one of the things,
you know, I'm up in thebox and between series, between series,
I don't really have time to watchwhat the other side's doing. No,
you're thinking about the next series.I'm one hundred percent focus on what
we're doing on the next series.Right. I might lift up my eyes
for a play or whatever, right, but I'm watching what what I'm looking

(37:05):
at, what we need to do. Yeah, So It's not like I
could sit there and go, man, you guys did a great job on
offense, sure, you know,so I'm really kind of a little bit
probably more respect to the defense ifthere's an like is there a definitive line
in the stand of like, hey, we need to get a competitive edge
here, And that might be arepetitive answer for you to answer or question
for you to answer, but likeit just makes me think, like,

(37:27):
like we talked about a lot ofoffenses run all football, it's all pretty
much the same place, different variations. How can we put you know,
some window dressing on or whatever itmight be, and how do you gain
a competitive edge? Then? Likewhat what's what? What are the the
smallest minuscule details you could possibly do? I honestly just think it comes back

(37:52):
to how you how you coach thoseplays? Right? Uh? You know
there's there's certain routes everybody runs,and I would look at it like,
man, like everybody you know,for example, Uh, you know everybody
runs some version of these you know, deep cross plays. Sure well,
how you coach that deep cross youknow those details how maybe it was coached

(38:16):
here in the past, versus howI coach it versus how you know somebody
at you know another Mount West schoolor you know whatever, Like everybody runs
that play, everybody coaches that route, different landmarks, alignment, how do
you read the defenders the whole thing? How you coach the quarterback on that
play. I just think it allcomes back to, Okay, we want

(38:36):
to run this, we want tobe good at it. Why aren't we
good at it? Why are wegood at it? Like you know that.
I think that's a huge part ofit, is the honest assessment of
yourself, like being accountable to like, hey, like we're not very good
at this, you need to notrun it, or we need to figure
out why we're not good at it, or hey, we're good at it.
How can we How can we runthis more? How can we find

(38:57):
ways to take advantage of that morebecause we are good at it? Emphasize
your strengths, improve your weaknesses.All right, who's your top five wide
outs of all time? We're whiteout, guys. I've had some crazy
answers on this show about this.Okay, number one, I'm going Randy
Moss number one, number one,Okay, number one, Okay, I

(39:19):
mean I'm not gonna argue if it'syour list. There's some crazy list out
there these days. All right,Rainy Moss, Jerry Rice has to have
to respect it. Just yeah,yeah, successfully excluse you can't, I
mean, can't argue. This iswhere it starts getting dicey. It does
get dicey. I think, DavanteApps, you don't have to just say

(39:49):
that, but I agree with you, Davante. And the reason being is
this has become a passing league.Now. It's also easier to pass the
ball because of the rules placed ondefense understood in the NFL. But everybody
knows he's getting the ball and hecontinues to do it at such an elite
level. Yeah, all right,this is the one where you're gonna be

(40:12):
like, you know, trying toReguin Okay, Regent, Okay, okay,
okay. It was six and ninetyfive pounds, ran average at the
combine average, vertical jump, likenothing athletically stands out about him at all.
And when Marvin Harrison retired, everybodyin the league knew that he was

(40:34):
going to get the ball and hestill broke records. Yeah, I mean,
he just got it done. Hejust got it done. And maybe
he's not like top five you know, but for me, it's your list.
I just look at it like,I have so much respect for people
that just quote unquote overachieve. Andthen you can have a five A five

(40:59):
s P if you need to.I will go five A five by Larry
Fitzgerald right catches everything I mean,at such an elite level for so long,
just so much respect for him andwhat he's about. And then I
love Justin Jefferson already Top five threeyears. He's a final ever go fourteen

(41:22):
hundred yards, I know for threestraight years, and the first three years
I know he first ever to doit, and I just I love watching
him. He is elite technically,elite technically, and I just yeah,
maybe early, but maybe it's probablymore so that I just love watching him

(41:43):
play and it's current, it's freshfor me, but I love watching him
play. The Top five. Ihonestly don't hate it. I don't hate
it. I think you had enoughof the bones there. Obviously, if
we were in a locker room nightnow, everybody be like, oh Rogie,
people are gonna say like what aboutJulio, what about Calvin? Like,

(42:04):
I don't know, everyone's got theirlist. Everyone got their list,
and and and the cool part aboutit is there's so many elite players.
There's players, yes, And Ithink that that's where it's kind of like
it's hard to make a list likethat. It's starred. And I think
it also depends like what hits youat home personally, you know, like
I was in this era of thePatriots were winning super Bowls when I was

(42:30):
like really trying to master my craft. Well, Julian Elleman's like balling out,
He's winning super Bowl MVP, He'sgetting knocked out, waking up mid
run. I'm like, this guy'san absolute His play was a certain type
of way you mimic it. Hetalked about like no wasted steps off the
line, start low, and Iwas just like, that's that's what works

(42:50):
for me. Is he top five? Maybe playoff top five? But but
like I look at Tera Owens likelike dominance absolutely like for me to leave
him off the list, it's probablymore so just kind of like, man,
I just love watching certain guys play, but Man too is different.
You could argue that he's one ofthe one of the top three. Ever.

(43:12):
Absolutely, Okay, pat last question, this is a funny one.
So you were at UC Davis intwenty fifteen. Right, I sent you
an email from my high school emailsFebruary twenty six, fifteen, and I
got no response. Bro. Iactually went through my old today because I

(43:36):
was cleaning the boutch of spam,and I was doing my research on you,
because I'm a good host, youknow, I do my research on
And I was like, I thinkI remember this because I talked to coach
Creighton was there with you, rightDavis, and he was the president of
recruiter at the time with Anthony Sodo, and I remember, like my strategy

(43:59):
was like email every single coach onthe staff, GA video dude, all
this and anyways, I just thoughtit was funny that you know, we're
on bringing the juice out that waseight years ago or nine years ago.
Full circle. Man, life comesat you fast. Well, it's not.
There's not gonna make you feel better. A lot of people don't get

(44:22):
responses from it. I get it. I'm one of the worst with emails.
I'm terrible. I'm one of theworst with emails out there. So
I do. I do apologize.But it all worked out. It all
worked out, no question. Lookat us now, Hey, look at
us now. Look at us now, Pat, I appreciate it. Before
I close things up. Anything youwant to say is bring the juice nation,

(44:43):
Oh honor to be on. Nodogs, go dogs, baby,
Fire me up, guys. Patmccannon calling the players for your offense this
year. So far, so good. Let's keep the ball rolling. The
fireworks are on. Subscribe, unsubscribe, pre subscribe, buy your merch,
go to a dog's game, anduh see you next week