John Middlekauf

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Alright, alright, alright, welcometo the episode of To Bring Juice podcast
time, your host Franks Atlanta.Today we are in Arizona. I got
John middle cough on. He isalso a podcaster. John, welcome to
bring us. I'm sure you're It'snice to be on the other side of
the table. It feels good,feels really good. I text a mutual
buddy of ours and he just simplysaid, you're a star. So I'm

(00:23):
I'm excited to be here. Andwe're getting after a couple couple of cores
lights on Tuesday afternoon. Can't can'tbe too mad about it. Yeah,
So, you know, podcaster,you've been involved in different types of journalism,
writing articles, reporting, You're withyou know, talking to Colin Coward.
You're you were a scout at onepoint for the Eagles. Let's start

(00:43):
with just how at what point didyou go from I got occupations, I'm
gonna be a scout, I'm gonnado this at the other end, going
I'm all in on podcasting, allin on the radio gig. Yeah,
I would say I've had like differentpoint in time in my life where things
have changed. You know, Ireally wanted to work in football. I
got to do that with college inthe NFL, and you know, it

(01:04):
comes to a screeching halt when youknow the head coach gets fired or let
go, and then you gotta kindof look in the mirror. You go,
what I want to do. Andthen you get a radio career that
kind of gets off and running andyou kind of like in the NFL,
you started dealing. I dealt withthe Raiders and I was like doing the
post game and it kind of gotugly. They wanted me to be positive.
I can be a little negative.So you know, we butted heads

(01:29):
and so I've been you know,I was fired twice by the time I
was thirty. Wow. And Iwould say most people, like in my
family's just I grew up. Mydad was a tomato farmer. In most
industries you get fired, it's likeyou're late, you're a bad worker,
you know, in sports or evenin radio and some of these contract job
it's a little different, right,And so it's I think some people were

(01:49):
like man, and the first timeit happened to me in the NFL,
like when Chip Kelly came in,it was like I'm a failure. Second
time, I like it was mucheasier to kind of catapult to where I
wanted to go. I didn't necessarilyknow either time. Yeah, but it's
the best thing that ever happened tome. Twice, And you know,
in sixteen we started podcasting. That'searly in the podcast game, it is,

(02:12):
but actually, you know it feltlate at the time. Yeah.
Now now looking back, it's definitelywas ahead of the curve. But it's
just one of those things that Iwould have probably held on for radio as
long as I could. It workedout pretty well. Do you have any
background in that. Did you goto college for that specifically or now just
kind of fall into place. Yeah, it just kind of fell into place.
Just you're good at it. That'swell. I've been I've been told

(02:32):
to shut up my whole life frommy family, so it's just it comes
naturally to talk. Yeah. Itwas just one of those things that you
just sometimes you just end up somepeople. I've met people along the way.
I'm sure you have two that arelike destined to do something and you
talk to him and they like,I was gonna do this when I was
five years old, right, Like, whether it's an athlete, whether it's

(02:53):
when I worked in the NFL.Howary Roseman, He's like I was gonna
be a GM like seven years old. He was telling people that I knew.
I worked with people and with scoutsthat were like, this is what
I wanted to do at a youngage. Even when I was playing college
football, I was not necessarily likethat, right, but insane with radio
or talking or podcast, you justsometimes you just kind of have you know,
I have limited gifts in life.There's not many other things I could

(03:15):
do. I mean, that waspart of it why I wanted to work
in football, because I remember beingat Cal PAULI thinking like, I don't
think I can like work for abank, Like, I don't know,
I'm gonna suck at this. Howam I going to survive? How how
am I going to sell insurance?So you just try to find what you
really like and then sometimes like that'sprobably what happens to more people, like
organically just kind of leads you toan area. Well, I mean you

(03:37):
said it best to your one.Everybody's got different talents. That's that's one
thing. Two it's crazy the amountof people that might be good at bank
or might be good at but theycan't talk have a conversation, steer a
conversation. It's one thing to bea host of a podcast or a show
versus being a guest on A hostera guest on a podcast for definitely a

(03:58):
different vibe, definitely gonna have.I don't want to call it it is.
It does become talent, but alot of it's organic. I was
a fag business major. But youknow the reason I think I got good
at talking to people. Growing upon an onion farm, I had to
load trucks on. I'd get onthe forecliff, I'd take the Palace of
onions, I load them on atruck. I'd have to shake the truck
driver's hand. They'd be going everywherein the world, Maine, Florida,

(04:19):
Canada, Utah, doesn't freaking matter. You ask them, Hey, how
do you want your truck? Howdo you want it loaded? What do
you want it? You know,there's certain laws where you have to have
a certain amount of weight or ornot too much weight on your truck.
So being a fourth grade kid andhaving to shake a grown man's hand ten
times a day every summer, foryear after year after year one, you

(04:43):
learn how to shake a hand,not like a you know, a whoos
bag, like there is too manyof these days. But also you understand,
hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna putmy big boy pants on right now
and talk like a big boy,look a man in the eye, be
direct, get up my point acrosson things. And I think that's just
developed a long with my athletic careerof just hey, being a good communicator
is a good tool to have inyour toolbox as a football player as as

(05:06):
as as a freaking JV baseball player, doesn't matter. You could communicate on
the field. A coach sees thatas an asset. So you know,
not to go full circle on thewhole thing. But now that you're in
the position of the podcasting, talkabout your podcast a little bit. Now
you got three and out, yougot you got this go low one?
Yeah, I mean, what areyou going? Well? I think back
to what you were just saying,is that, you know, life for

(05:30):
the most people is kind of indirectlyor directly about sales. And really what
you're doing, what I do isjust kind of selling yourself. You have
to, you know, And whenI was in college, I remember thinking
like I never want to work insales, and even when I got to
the NFL, like seeing the peoplethat had to sell tickets or at first
I'll state like that's like I don'twant to do, and you realize,
like that's most of life, nomatter what you do, whether you're the

(05:51):
head coach in college, whether youhost a podcast, whether you run a
business, like you're always selling andthat is you know, it sounds sometimes
kind of hollow and fake, butI think it's it's the most valuable skill
probably in America. You know,the ability to sell whatever your whether it's

(06:12):
your vision for your program, whetherit's your product, whether you or run
a podcast and are entertaining. SoI think that is. I actually when
I was at Fresno State, abuddy of mine from high school, Guy
Haberman, hosted a show and Ilived with him in another buddy that was
on the basketball team and became abasketball coach. He ended up going to
the Bay Area and hosting a radioshow. So when I got fired in

(06:35):
the NFL, I started going onwith him right and I started being a
guest, and then the guy thatran the radio show really liked me because
I didn't give it. I wasjust kind of like I was lasting people
well exactly, and then we endedup getting a radio show that, like
I said, ended up getting canceledwhen the Raiders got mad at me.
And then that's how we started apodcast like kind of a bay are Eccentric

(06:57):
that's now kind of turned in veryforty nine or heavy. Yeah, because
football's king. Uh absolutely, Yeah, So that's you know, kind of
got it, got the ball rolling. And then from there Coward and I
started a podcast, probably in twentyeighteen. He's like, hey, I
want you to have one for me. So we do three and out and
how tell me about that listship?When you when did you first get in

(07:19):
the room with Coward because he youknow, he's kind of on the mount
rushmore of guys that are I've beendoing this for a long Yeah, he's
the best of the Yeah. Iwould say I think we met through Twitter.
Wow, probably in like twenty fourteen, two thousand and fifteen, you
know, once I got out ofthe NFL, I started a Twitter account.
Yeah, and you know former NFLscout he's buddies with Andy Reid.

(07:41):
Okay, so I would I'm neverasking this, but I would imagine he
like asked about me or whatever.Uh, and then he just started having
me on his radio show. Sothen we just started talking a lot,
and then I can't even remember somehowwe started texting. He just kind of
became buddies. Then I started doingI think I started doing the pod guess
before I actually ever met him inperson, which was probably like three or

(08:03):
four years ago, and then hestarted the volume. But now, you
know, Draymond Green, Colin,myself, a bunch of other people,
and obviously I just went over withhim. Yeah, so it's been good,
the volume, I mean, isthat what's the vision there? There's
so many different platforms now of hubsof podcasts, hubs of shows. Is
it eventually a thing where the moreathletes, the more shows, the better?

(08:24):
Do you want to keep it excaped? Yeah, I mean it's it's
it's up to him. I mean, I just you just worked there essentially
then. Yeah. I mean,I we have a good business partnership and
uh, you know, I'm involvedheavily obviously in terms of the more successful
it is, the more successful weall are. Right, I think he's
been very you know, he justdoesn't hire anybody, you know, Draymond

(08:48):
has been just a pretty incredible move, right, I mean, I mean
it's it's changed the game almost.Yeah. He's a pretty special individual for
just a guy on the most famousteam, and he's all was just a
polarizing player, right right. AndRichard Sherman, you know, obviously came
on last year. Kind of sametype deal, right, kind of the
Draymond of the NFL. It's alittle different because Richards's hired now now he's

(09:11):
doing the Amazon stuff. I mean, Draymond's in the heat him like he's
playing Lebron right now, right rightnow, literally, so uh yeah,
I mean it's just been uh it'svery cool. Now. Colin is the
you know, as the bus driver. Obviously he's the he's the lead dog.
So it's like without him, itwouldn't exist. I mean, Draymond
could have started it, but mything and the success of three and out,

(09:33):
um, you know, it's allhe I owe it to him,
right, you know, the platformto distribution, the whole thing. It's
difficult and I've I've kind of voicedthis to people. I don't know if
you've gone through this. I'm fresherin the game. This will be episode
ninety for me. I do onea week because I'm still rather fresh in
the whole thing. Um had someearly momentum. But you know, people

(09:54):
come to me like, hey,why don't you why don't you go get
Tom Brady on the pud, Whydon't you get Michael Jordan on the part.
I think people don't understand, likethose guys, you gotta build joy
up to get to that point andto get in those rooms, to get
in that text message chain with whoeveryou need to coordinate something like that.
It's it's harder when you know,I played college football. That's great,

(10:16):
but you look at it guys likeBusting with the Boys, where you got
a Will Compton and Tyler Taylor Lauanwho have decorative NFL careers. They're they're
kind of they were the face ofthe Titans for a little bit there in
their own unique way. They alreadyhave a following. Taylor was Wills.
I like Will, I like thisguy, but like you know what I
mean, like that they got thisplatform and it's like, ohs just start

(10:37):
some microphones all of a sudden.Richard Sherman at the same time like,
well you can't. I mean,like Richard or Draymond or those guys like
that, they're playing a different ballgame, right, you know, And
that's like one of the things likethree and out, Like I don't do
that many interviews. Yeah, uh, you know, I've had on Coach
Read before, I've had on differentpeople at the combine. But for the
most part, like it's just metalking, yeah, you know, And

(11:00):
I think part of it is,you know, it's just I'm just giving
my opinions unfiltered when you you know, when you're starting to create your personal
identity of hey, people are tappingin to see you, to see you
John basically, yeah, do youhave you know, kind of boundari as
you said of the dudes and don'tsthings I want to steer away from,

(11:20):
Like you know, I don't wantto get too political on this side.
I don't want to get too religiouson this side. Or do you just
say, hey, whatever comes tomind. I don't get I say,
for the most part, I thinkin twenty twenty three, moving forward,
and it's been like this for severalyears, and I think Barstool is a
good example of this is kind oflike raw and unfiltered. What people want
absolutely, they don't want fake.That's what podcasts are so great now,
well exactly so just be yourself.I also you know politics in general.

(11:45):
You know, I obviously use Iguess ideas and you know, things I
believe. When it comes part ofthe NFL, money is a huge part
of it. So it's like youend up talking about financial theory, reason
the way you view life. Soit kind of comes out. But like
in terms of like every day I'mnot hammering home social things. It's why

(12:07):
I think so much of the mediais dying, is they can't help to
tell you what they believe. Andit's like I got news for you.
Not everyone believes like you do,so when you forced it, like,
and I come from a world whereI do whatever you want, doesn't Yeah,
I've been friends with people all theworld. Yeah you all like in
football, you see it. Youmeet people from all over the place,
every avenue of life, every corner, everything, every time, and it

(12:30):
never really in my experience. Now, obviously things became much more polarizing these
last six seven years, but yeah, things have always been. My dad
used to always say, like peoplealways think like now's the craziest. He's
like, there was a World Wartwo, there was a World War One.
There's a great depression, there wasVietnam like it's like whenever you're living
in the time, it feels likethe craziest But people always feel like that
at the time. It's just notalways necessarily true. And I think today,

(12:54):
like, you know, you couldalready've never been better. Life's pretty
good for the most part. It'sto like you ask someone's great grandparents about
like what the nineteen twenties were,Like, No, it's when you when
your son went off to World Wartwo and did not come back. Like
I mean, think about the thingswe complain about right now. It's it's
embarrassing, it's a joke, youknow, and that and that's where But
a lot of people think like that. And I think sometimes the media,

(13:16):
who like lives on Twitter can getin this weird spot. And it's why
so many of them at the bigconglomerates feel like they've never had less juice.
And that's why like a guy likeColin is so unique who's worked at
these big things just pivoted over toFox who created this because he sees like
Colin the thing I respect the most. He's so successful, but he has

(13:39):
this like entrepreneurial spirit right where likehe didn't need to start the volume he's
got more money and he needs to. Like he's did this out of like
a passion and knowing, and likehe's good and likes business. That's why
to me, like I've been veryfortunate to be able to work with him
because I always listened to him becausethe way he talked about sports was unlike
anyone. So it's like, youknow, and I think he resonates.

(14:01):
And I've always told him this,Like whenever you go to a party or
a you know, a wedding orwhatever, you meet people like a sixty
year old guy it's like the CEOof his of his company, but you
also like his twenty year old kidthat's like a sophomore in college at Arizona
State. They both like him,you know, And that's kind of unique
because sometimes usually the guy your dadlikes not always the guy you like.

(14:22):
So when you can cross all thosedifferent demos, you know, it's it's
not easy to do. It's noteasy to do at all. And I
personally, I love that fact abouthim, and I've tried to utilize that
in my game, and I thinkthat I kind of have I have from
I was the only white boy widereceiver at Presidents state, So I understood.
I got a real good taste ofdifferent types of backgrounds, cultures.

(14:46):
Whether you're from the Bay La Texasat the corner of Florida doesn't matter.
At the same time, I grewup on onion farm of a country boy.
You guys had a little different budgetthan when I was there. We
weren't going to Florida and I wasn'tgoing into They came there, they went
two miles away to get me.I don't care about your personal beliefs,
what your viewpoints are on certain things. If you're a good person and you're
and you don't affect my life ina negative aspect, or you're not trying

(15:09):
to ruin me necessarily, I'm goodwith you, man. Just be if
you're nice, If you're nice tome and I'm nice to you, I'm
good with it. You don't gotto get into the personal beliefs and who's
right, who's wrong. This isgood, this is bad? And I
think you know, especially in today'sday and age. You mentioned it.
Twitter's the It's but I don't thinksociety's like that. Is it? You
get off everyone's nice, everyone's friendly, it's Twitter. Someone might cut you

(15:31):
off or whatever you're bout offer justsays something like bumps in you at the
you know, the the store.But for the most part, like everyone's
good outside. You have no cluewhat anyone thinks, and most people are
friendly to other people. Absolutely.That's why, like social media clearly is
very very powerful right now, butI also think it's not. It doesn't
parallel the way like real life is. Well, you gotta utilize it as

(15:52):
an asset for in an industry likewe're in right now, because obviously the
more the more clicks you have,the more's chance you are of you know,
getting a bigger sponsorship deal, gettingmore people engage in your product or
whatever it might be. But atthe same time, and I don't know
about you, but like I havetried to steer away from turning into a
clickbait type thing. I don't wantto be the guy who has some I

(16:15):
don't want to put athletes down formore interactions on my podcast. That's that's
just maybe that's an internal compass Ihave that I started on early and I'm
keeping it at that. But youknow, as you see how this game
grows, you look at some controversialthat's what's got all the clicks right now.
So there's a I think there's athere's definitely a gray area, there's

(16:36):
a thin line. Like you said, you want to be raw about it
and to be able to be inthe position you are. You know,
I think a lot of people arechasing that. I get hit up all
the time, Hey I want tostart a podcast, blah blah blah.
Guys barely get past you know,guys barely buy microphones, and then they
call it you know, me beingyoung in this game, You've been a
little vetted in it at this point. Was there a day were you sick?
Because I know you you mentioned youwere. Everything's kind of of led

(17:00):
to this point. But you gottalive your life. You gotta bring in
income and stuff like that. Doyou and you can get as into this
as much as you like, Butat what point do you say, Hey,
I can make a living for agrown man on podcasting. Was there
was there a certain deal you hador was it a package or how is
it? I mean, I've beenable to survive really pretty quickly once I

(17:22):
started doing it. I would saythe last three or four year. I'm
thirty eight, so probably once Igot to about thirty five, or looked
great. Yeah, thank you,I appreciate it. I realized like it
could really be something big. Yeah. But like you know, I had
a lot of friends that went that. I went to school with cal Pauly
that you know, when I graduatedcollege, like the seven o eight,

(17:45):
I graduate five year guy, Butsome of them graduated oh seven, you
know, the recession whatever happened.But then right after that, a lot
of the like the tech companies boomed, right, so a lot of them
got in early, you know,with the Oracle, Salesforce, whatever,
and started making huge money. Wow. You know, and just like anyone
in the Bay Area, if yougot in at the right time, and

(18:06):
you know, you start working infootball. My first you know, as
a GA at Frozen State, Iwas making a scholarship check, so you're
just paid no different than the playerscholarship check. And then in the NFL,
my first job paid twenty five thousanddollars, and I don't think up
until thirteen when I would have beenlike twenty eight twenty nine, like I
was like fifty grand. So youjust start going. You knew the guys
at the top were making a lotof money, but it's hard to get

(18:27):
there. And you see some ofyour friends all easily make a couple hundred
grand like living well, buying places. You're like, am I doing this
right? And then you just youjust I was lucky enough to kind of
see the big picture and just kindof drive through it, because there are
times when you can go like isthis worth it? You know? And

(18:48):
I think it's very very difficult.One advice a lot of successful people give,
and I do believe it's true.When you do something you like to
do, it's much easier to doit. Because everything that you do in
life, even if you like it, it's gonna bother you. Right,
you could be Tom Brady or PeytonManning. Certain things drove them nuts about
football even though they were addicted tofootball, right, or Bill Belichick or
Andy Reid or Jeff Bezos or whoever. But like, when you like doing

(19:12):
it, it's easier to like,Okay, I've got to do this on
Saturday, where the majority of peopleare like I'm not doing on Saturday something,
And I don't even blame them.Yeah, like you hate what you
do, like whatever, but thatlimits your ability. And then the older
you get to try to like makea change because kids come mortgages come,
life comes, it's harder to pivot. So the fight that I would not

(19:33):
like the only reason I'm here doingthis and being able to do like make
a living of being a full timelike I mean you a podcaster right right
right? You know, and Isay it like with pride now is because
I kind of started, you know, and it really started through football,
which gave me my credibility to startjust being a radio host and then a
podcaster from the jump, make nothingin my twenties and just kind of get

(19:56):
along. And also had parents whodad was a farmer. My mom you
worked forever. I grew up inDavis at the state capitol. Who just
supported doing something like wait, whatdo you want to do right right?
Yes, you'd be able crew?You want to be a scout in the
NFL. Like it's just not youdon't know anyone. It's not like my
dad was assistant code, you know. It just we didn't know those people.
No, So you know, Iit's a huge Without my parents' support,

(20:18):
it wouldn't have that definitely would popjust them like never saying like this
is stupid. Get a normal job, right, you know, like sell
insurance, like you know, allthese all the people we know, we
see if the store, all theirkids are doing and like that's that's that's
first and foremost starts there, likewith the support system of like you can
do it, like cool, likecan we come to a game? Yeah?

(20:40):
You know, well no, wewill drive your car out to Philly
because that sounds cool. It's like, you know, I hope I do
that for my kids. We interruptthis episode to bring the Jews for a
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(22:11):
percent off free shipping. So allright, let's go. Let's you mentioned
Philid I was talking about the scoutlife. I have yet to have anybody
who's has any scouting experience on thepod. What is give me a week
of an NFL scout. Because Iknow you're traveling, you're looking certain times,
it depends on the time. Areyou working like my When I left

(22:34):
Fresno State to go to the Eagles. I worked in the office. Okay,
so a guy you weren't in thefield, born and raising Davis went
to cal Poly. Two years ofFresno, off to Philadelphia. You know,
it's kind of crazy. You know, it's like making and I'm not
a player. I ain't getting ahundred, you know, a million dollars.
I'm getting twenty five thousand dollars.Don't know a soul go out to

(22:55):
the Eagles with Sean Jackson, ShadyMcCoy, Andy. This is kind of
crazy and it was intense. ButI worked in the office for the first
two years as kind of my firstyear. No different than what I did
at Fresden. You kind of doeverything, right for food runs to picking
up players at the airport, togoing to grab their playbook, to writing
up players, to helping the GMdo lists, to getting screamed out for

(23:17):
who knows what an assistant coaches toyou know, printing out the weather.
You know, injury report. It'sa little different in the pros and college
like with the injury report every youknow, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
Uh, you just kind of doevery You're just trying to keep your head
above water and survive. Right.College was a little easier in the sense,
just a little less your teams,your team. Yeah, you know,
there's no like adding guys throughout thesea. It's way crazier. But

(23:42):
like then it was, you know, you're hunter guysing roster, hundred guysing
roster, coaches, your coaches.You know, it's just right. It
was a little less crazier and likeO eight oh nine. But like the
NFL, I remember thinking it wascrazy, just intense, you know,
and and it's like I'm sure asa player, you know, the losses,
you just like, oh my guydread going in, you know,
I'm sure. And the winds justlike, oh, this is gonna be

(24:03):
such an awesome money, you know. So that's that's the one thing that
I was hard to handle, likethat, the ebb and flow of that,
which I think it's weird, likecoaches are crazy, like they are
a crazy break breed, and it'slike they kind of get numb to that,
you know, because they don't getthat excited with the winds for a

(24:23):
for a split moment, maybe anhour after the game of beer. But
like you see in the next day, they ain't like doing cartwheels down the
hallway, I'm pissed off sometimes.Yeah. Yeah, So it's like that.
That the one thing that I rememberbeing in the office and going to
practice all the time in and I'msure it's no different at Frozen State too.
It's like when a guy goes downthat feeling of like it's a difference,

(24:45):
like guy kind of gets rolled upon shakes and off and like guy
he ain't getting up. Yeah,you know, it's like it's kind of
quiet, especially when it's one ofyour really good players. It's kind of
that Friday that lights Boobie Miles momenta little bit where you're saying, I
don't think people realize it like happensa lot, you know now and and
you know in the NFL probably youknow, definitely no different in college.
It just depends who. It's adifferent feeling. But I don't care who

(25:07):
you are. When you're laying there, it's like everyone stops. But if
it's like, oh is that yeah, oh my god, what numbers that?
That looks like an al Yeah,that's the thing that I have a
lot of respect for. Like Icouldn't handle that, you know, Like
and part of it like what Ido now, like I control everything,
like you never control everything in life, but like that feeling in the NFL

(25:30):
too. They get so numb toit, like next guy, call this
guy, bring these workouts tomorrow,and it's just like it's just a cycle.
You're a number, It's just acycle. It's crazy. Yeah,
So being you know, the reasonwas the NFL Draft and before that was
the combine is from a scout's perspective, which I know you're in the office,
but you know the game I did, I did the West Coast,

(25:52):
So did it is? That isDraft night? Night? Wanted the draft?
Were you ever in the big roomwhere it's, hey, who we
pick in type of thing? Ordo you at least know what the vibe
was in there? Yeah? Imean my first two years, I was
in charge of the boards throughout theyear. Okay, you know, not
just not the draft board but thepersonnel boards, helping with the draft boards,

(26:15):
and we had a pretty tight knitroom when I was in Philly.
I think they've expanded it, butlike you go in and out, and
that first round it was like wewere pretty close knit and then as the
thing goes, doors are open,everyone's eating, kind of go in and
out. But my third year whenI did the West Coast, like,
I mean, there were players onthe board that you want a draft or

(26:36):
you don't want a draft. Andthat was one thing that happened to me
is I had basically the entire packtwelve the it was the whack them,
but the Mountain West all the wayto El Paso to Colorado West. Yeah,
pretty cool, but it's big,you know, just a lot of
teams like my buddies to do thesec. You know, it sounds like

(26:56):
everything's far, but everything's like threehours away, two hours away totally.
You probably drove driving. You drovefarther today than all of those guys doing
going from like yeah, I justwent from Alabama to Atlanta. To me,
that sounds like you're crossing like sevenstates. Like now, it was
like two and a half hours.I went from Tallahassee to Auburn. If
you go from you know, Uclato Fresno, I mean it might take

(27:17):
you, depending on traffic, couldbe five hours. Ye who knows very
much. It's just it's a longway. So you just, uh,
that was a really cool experience.But I remember in the draft meetings by
then, I was pretty I wouldn'tsay cocky, but I was like confident,
like I had been elevated. Iwas doing a good job, like
I worked for the GM. Soeven though Andy had just lost his job

(27:38):
in a draft meeting, I wasjust kind of why I think I'm a
successful podcaster. I was just saying, like I thought, like, right,
Matt Barkley cannot play here, right, and then Chip Kelly, who
I think they might have been takena nap back there kind of comes to
Matt Barkley had beat them at Oregon, at USC almost and even the game
I think they lost to him,or I mean that USC lost to him.

(27:59):
I think Barkeley played really well againsthim. He liked them, we
ended up drafting him. And thenyeah, it just wasn't it just feel
like this is I'm not gonna behere long. I'm pretty sure they just
gave that guy a lot of money. What is the I mean, you
kind of mentioned it before the publywere chopping them up, but like,
is there any and obviously you knowa guy who's a number okay, a

(28:22):
guy who's a shoe in, freakof nature middle linebacker from Alabama who has
all the accolades, all the physicalattributes, and he balls out. He's
not gonna have an issue. He'sgonna go top five. But what is
what are some deal breakers you wouldsay from the your experience of like,
hey, this guy, it's ait's a it's a red flag. We're
gonna not maybe not draft him ashigh, or maybe we're gonna let him

(28:45):
go a little bit. You seeif we get him a later round.
I think it just depends on yourteam, who you have on your team,
where you're at kind of in yourprocess, because like the last couple
of years, the Eagles character hasbeen a really big deal and they've drafted
like it, right, DeVante's SmithHeisman Trophy, super high character guy,
Landon Dickerson offensive lineman, super highcharacter guy, and then Jalen Hurts,

(29:06):
super high character guy. And they'vejust kind of built this squad around like
these high level guys. And thenthis year it's like Jalen Carter who was
in the car where in another carI guess they were racing on a night
like after the party for their backto back national championships, and you know,
dude died and he had already hadred flags about immaturity and stuff like

(29:27):
that, and the dude obviously leftthe scene, so it's just right away
teams. And this all came outat the combine day one. Yeah,
so it was like people like whatso that whenever you get information that you
weren't that aren't known on a guy, it's one thing like, hey,
it turns out this isn't fair,but I'm just gonna use like bright young,

(29:47):
super high character check. Or WillAnderson, you know, he got
like a drunken public his freshman yearand that came out no one knew about
like whatever, you know, lowdumb moment. No one even cares right
now, or like in high schoolhe got caught with a beer in like
he got a ticket, but theJalen thing he had already had red flags.
But everyone has their vice in thislife, and sometimes you get you
give, you know, you givethese big paychecks to guys if for too

(30:07):
much free time on their hands,too much luxuries, not saying it's a
bad thing. Everyone's chasing the bag. We're chasing the bag. But how
I've always hated that term, bythe way, because the yeah, because
there's no such thing as a bag. It's direct deposits and we pay taxes
on it. You know, Iwould love. I would love the bags.
That just means money cash. Youknow, the bags are what they

(30:30):
used to give out in the SECbefore the nil and now all these guys
getting they gotta pay the hack.I'm fascinated when the first guy, like
you know, so and so owesthe government seven hundred thousand dollars for the
four million he's made, Like,how's that? Kno gonna that yet?
Why would they not talk about it? Feels inevitable, doesn't it. Well,
some of these guys getting like youthink you just gave, like the
average nineteen year old, let's justsay a million dollars, He's like,

(30:52):
yeah, I'm gonna put away fourhundred for taxes. We had Bobby Evans
Junior on the pod from the RAMSa couple weeks ago and we legit discussed
how he got drafted to the RAMS, and we discussed, you know,
my buddy Mike, who was costingit with me because on the Falcons we
were talking you different tax brackets andhow guys typically, you know, you
get drafted through the Cowboys. It'skind of a good thing. You're keeping

(31:14):
more great great page with Jacksonville Miami, but you're going to the rams,
San Francisco, things of that nature. All of a sudden, you're not
keeping that whole bag. And Ithink a lot of guys views on how
they see the world change when theyexpect that fifty thousand dollars to hit and
you get fifty thousand dollars versus Nope. Now you're getting taxed on and I

(31:37):
don't even know how many ways anymorethese days. And then by the way,
tax day comes around, you gota fat check to pay to the
man, and it we're so uneducatedon. My dad used to always say
everyone's a pretty big, huge Democrattill they get their first page check,
because you look at it, itcould just be five hundred dollars the first
time. You're like, okay,I got five hundred dollars. No,

(31:59):
no, you don't. And onceyou get to those levels, even if
it's like you're a practice squad guyyou're making eight thousand dollars a week or
whatever, the number is just greatmoney still one hundred rest Society's it's fantastic,
But you do you start in yourmind the first time and then you
see it, you're like, whatyep? And that's why I'm fascinated,
Like in the nil thing. Yeah, they're not putting, they're not you're

(32:21):
not there w to employee. They'rejust paying you for a sponsorship. Maybe
those guys, I hope I'm notroot for if you can get away with
it. But it's like that's something'sgonna happen. Well, I we again,
like I said with the Bobby Evansthing, we talk about how you
don't really learn that. I don'tknow how your education is just to what's
growing up, but I never tooka class that taught you how to pay
taxes, like like the I didn'teven am my friends of State Education,

(32:44):
which is the Harvard of the CentralValley. Don't give me ye, but
I didn't really even have like ahey, here's this sheet right here.
This is what you gotta do.This is when you're gonna get taxed,
this is how much depending on youdon't really ever get like a clear tool.
You get zapped. That's why everone in business always says like we
need to start teaching more financial literacythe problem and I would I think this

(33:05):
is true for me. And itsounds like you two until you go through
it, like it'd be kind ofboring. I remember having some finance classes
like care and then you realize,like now I got Excel spreadsheets, like
yeah, rental property, You're like, I thought I was actually making this
and after expenses, I'm I'm I'min the red until it like hits you.
It's hard, Like it's why theclassroom didn't do that much for min.

(33:27):
I'm not an in the theory guylike on a white board, you
get we learned by doing all.Right, So let's finish with this.
You got this go Low podcast golf? Yeah, how has that been zapped?
You just like golf and you'd liketo chop it up about it?
Are you? Are you trying toget into that industry? There's not a
lot of there's not a lot ofshows I feel like discussing, you know,

(33:51):
I think especially I watched the FullSwing Netflix documentary. Yeah, what
do you think? I liked?I liked it for the fact that you
got kind of see a little bitmore character behind these guys. I don't
know. I'm not I'm new togolf, man. I finished playing.
I got I got a pair ofknockoff clubs sporting goods the day after Christmas
two years ago. I'm trying I'mhitting him straight. I'm taking beers on

(34:14):
the course. I'm learning. I'mup. I love it now, yeah,
but watching it on TV five yearsago, I'm like boring as hell.
Now I'm watching a guy I flopat sixty hitting it three feet from
the pin, and I'm like,that's awesome. That's an incredible shot.
Yeah, best thing I had.When I talked to Danny Woodhead, he
compared warming up, he's good warmingup for the super Bowl, versus approaching

(34:35):
the t box the first time onhis actual first professional first trying to qualify
of the US Open. Right,yeah, compared, I scored a super
Bow. You don't have any help, you know, it's just you and
the there is uh, you know, scoring a touchdown of the super Bowl.
That exhilaration of just like hell yeahbrother two again hitting one from one
twenty out two feet from the pin. He's like I always say, like,

(34:57):
my relationship with golf is a lotdifferent than football. I wasn't any
good. I mean I played inhigh school, but I mean I was
a tiny little guard. Couldn't abad athlete. Loved it though, because
all like in when I was inhigh school in like O two oh three,
golf wasn't that cool, like Tigerwas really getting big. But like
golf is so much different now likeeveryone in pro sports, basketball, football,
they like playing it. Everybody does. And it's just it's just I

(35:22):
played golf growing up and it's likeone, you know, the only sport
I could play. But I waspretty good. And then when we started
doing this, the golf consumer footballis huge. My football podcast does really
well. We got a lot ofpeople listening. It's the biggest sport in
America. You know, it's it'sit's golf is much more niche, but

(35:43):
the household income of people they playis dramatically higher than all the other sports.
It's why the businesses. When youturn on a golf what do you
see Mercedes role Like that's a differentthing. It's a little like F one
racing. So it's like you candevelop a business around there. It's just
been a kind of I don't knowexactly what I want to do beside the
podcast. I watch all these tournaments, I gamble on golf. I play
a lot of golf, so it'sa natural, like it's not even white

(36:06):
for you. I enjoy it.It's honestly more of a passion project but
I know can go somewhere where thefootball thing and it just comes in.
And a lot of my listeners,a lot of people started playing golf over
the last couple of years and it'sgrowing up it and a lot of former
athletes or just guys like I playedhigh school football, played high school baseball.
I never played golf. Well Icouldn't really. I started playing in
twenty twenty, and I kind oflike now and like you say, once

(36:29):
you start playing, why do weall watch football? Because so many of
us played. Even if you didn'tplayed high school, you've played football at
some point in time, so youknow we're baseball or whatever. It's why
basketball. Everyone's played basketball, It'swhy people watch those sports. Well,
the more and more people play golf, you go, how the guy just
hit that three to that? Youknow, the feeling he has in his
like how that bunker shot? Ican't get That's incredible, right, And

(36:52):
it's like everyone can do it,and it's it's the other thing is like
you played college football once college andyou're never gonna play football again. You
can play golf probably until like you'reseventy yeah, seventy five, eighty awesome,
you know, and that's tennis,like probably not. You can't play
too Like if your knee starts goingright, you can't pick up back.
You couldn't pay me to play pickup basketball. Can't afford to darim my
achilles. I don't want to beon crutches past that. Yeah, but

(37:14):
it's like you can play golf andyou get out in the sun and give
you something to do. Yeah,it's my really like working out. It's
like the only hobby I have.I'm not a big like my brother's a
hunter. Never really been that.You know, it's coal. You gotta
get up early. I will getup early for golf though. All right,
last thing I gotta ask, becausethis is what you do. What's
your hottest take leading into this nextupcoming NFL season? Uh, the Trey

(37:43):
Lance will not be on the fortynine ers come week one? Really?
Yeah, I think Sam Donald takesthe Purdy's hurt right now, so technically
he's not gonna practice at least forthe next you know, a couple of
months, probably the beginning of trainingcamp. I think Donald beats out Trey
Lance and if Purty even if he'slike, they have to ease him back
and maybe he can be the backup. They don't want to start him right

(38:04):
away that Sam Darnold is a startingquarterback. Now, if Party's healthy,
he'll be the starting quarterback. Butlike Sam will beat out Tray and then
because of what they drafted, theywon't just keep Tray on the team.
They'll just give him away for likea seventh round pick some team. They're
like, hey, we'll give thisguy a trial run for a year.
We're gonna suck anyway type deal.But that's so within a couple of years
of them trading all those picks forhim, two years later he's off the

(38:27):
team. And again like people like, yeah, I just yeah, I
just I don't know. I don'tthink he's any good. He's got bring
the juice hats. So I likeTrey Lance. People like him, And
that's the thing, Like, that'sthis is the hard part about my job.
It's not personal. Yeah, it'snot. And it like he sometimes
if a guy's a bad guy,I don't really care, but like this
is not. Sometimes if you getto the level it's like can golf,

(38:51):
like you can either break part youcan't like in football, like you can
either get this done or you're notlike a ton of like great guys your
friends like get cut out of theleague. Yeah, just now he's better
than that. But like it's very, very difficult. Yeah. And I
just don't think he's beating now SamDoran. You know heard it here first,
baby hot. I just think he'snot being now Sam. And the

(39:12):
one thing is I think he's gotan uphill battle of like the guys on
the team that for whatever reason,they're like Christian knows Sam, They're already
hanging out the Warriors game with jimyou know the way that's not random,
Like that's not they're not just likethey kind of stick. Obviously, you
like guys who you like, whetherthey can play or not if they're on
your team. But I think that'sa little different, Like I think Christians

(39:35):
telling people and these aren't just randomplayers, like these are the best players
in the league rolling with them.Yeah. And it's just I thought last
year with Jimmy the training Campell's goingand the rumors got out like I don't
know if we're gonna be able towin game why Because the guys on the
team thought, like we're good enoughto win the whole thing. We need
a capable quarterback. We don't needBrady or we would ideally like a guy

(39:57):
like that, but you know,we just see a guy. It's why
I once brought Party, came in, they loved him, did his job
love. Party's a dog bawler.I told you, I told Jake hanner
Man the success of Party. Yeah, if it's not for Brock, I
don't in sets in two, Like, I don't know if either one of
those guys going the fourth round,really smaller guy like historically those type guys
go pretty six seventh round, right, but like you saw last year,

(40:19):
like okay, this guy can justcome in and play. That is worth
like a fourth round pick. Hellif one if if Jake Hayter or sets
in Bennett becomes like what Brock Partyis, that guy's worth a second round
pick. Yeah, you know,because the quarterback position is so valuable.
If you got a sweet backup quarterback, it's nice. Didn't you play on
a team where the quarterback I hurtand the team was in shambles? You
play on one of those teams?Uh? We had a couple of those

(40:42):
teams. Yeah. Yeah, becauseit happened this year with Fristles, he
got hurt of a couple of games, like they lost a Yukon It was
the biggest spread loss of the season, right, Yeah, it weren't they
like a forty five point underdog thirtyone or something like that. Would they
have lost that game with Jake?No? Probably not, No chance.
It's tough even though it's still wouldhave been a weird game. Long flight
what long fly? Weird elements.I know there are some things internally that

(41:02):
definitely like influenced it, but Iknow what you mean. It also sometimes
the quarterback too, when you havea team, where is that guy the
quarterback? This year on Friends ofState, I'm still in a shootout between
him and Trance. Are they gonnabe good? Yeah? You think so.
They feel good about the squad,it'll be good. A lot of
transfers, you know what they gota like like a lot of young guys

(41:22):
who got their bearings last year.Their schedules manageable. I think who calls
the place, Pat McCann. Theylost Kellen Moore's brother, huh. Kirby
went to Missouri stud My guy themore family that I remember watching him at
when I was at Fress of State. Kellen was a quarterback and it was
like listen, I'm not I'm notacting like this guy's paid Manning, he's

(41:44):
small or whatever. But he wasso good. He was the best college
player I've ever seen. He was. He was unstoppable, just swinging that
left Andrew and their offensive coordinator.I mean, Chris was just talking about
being in his bag. I mean, they were just all their coaches were
like Brian Harston. They had allthose Boise guys that went around that.
Those were all the assistants with Peteleading it. And they had Kellen be

(42:05):
as a quarterback and all these randomdudes that end up playing in the NFL.
And they just kicked, I know. And Kaevernick and college incredible too.
The Mountain West is art, youknow, it still is okay,
Mountain West first Pac twelve. Ithink as a whole top to bottom and
definitely at the top, you know, like Utah Oregon if you just play

(42:28):
them every single week, If youplay them every week the one off situation,
the one thing that's different is likeFresno or Boise, if they get
a shot at Oregon or UCLA orUcla actually is better. Now. The
last couple of years have been prettythey were better this year than they were
last year. But like you it'slike a super Bowl, right, Yeah,
but like every single week when you'rein a bigger conference, it's like
we're playing Utah, we're playing Oregon, we're playing in Oregon State. It's

(42:50):
just like, but like when youplay last year Oregon State, that game
which was incredible in organ State wasgood. It's a really big deal for
the fres State players because a lotof those guys they were looked over by
give me a look. But likewhen you do that, could they are
they just as good as like WashingtonState or somebody of course, right,
but like yea, or now whatUSC's building with Lincoln and getting these transfers

(43:14):
and even Oregon, Like if youplayed Oregon that that game that was close
two years ago, right, youknow, if you play if Fresno plays
them ten times, they're more likelyto like probably go two and eight than
six and four or five and five. I would say, just because it
pens the top to the top tobottom talent on that team. Just it's
just much larger, like they justhave better players as backups. So where

(43:37):
do you think? Again, I'mpretty Fresno State heavy on this on this
pod following wise, what do youthink Fresno State ends up? You think
they stay in them out West,go Big twelve, go Pack twelve.
I think it depends what it doesa Pack twelve disappear. Because to me,
if Oregon and Washington were ever tojoin the Big Ten, Oregon and
Washington did the Big Ten, youdon't think Utah would go Utah to go

(43:58):
Big twelve. Yeah, then Ithink you would kind of get some potentially
get like a Fresno boise with likeUtah, maybe Arizona State, and create
the Big twelve some connection, right, Yeah, because if Oregon and Washington
leave, the petrol is done.It's just they're they're hanging by a thread.
Now, Like losing UCLA and USCis a big deal. I hate
that. I know it sucks.I hate it. It sucks, but

(44:20):
it is what it is, nodifferent than I love the Big twelve.
But you lose Oklahoma and Texas,like and that's a bigger blow for the
Big twelve, right, because youthink that's some bigger blow for the Big
twelve. Well in the sense thatlike Oklahoma and Texas just carry the conference
football wise, yeah, just brandIt's just such an important television product.
And I'm not talking necessarily wins andlosses. This is about This is about

(44:43):
television dollars. You know, likeOregon Like they're a big TV product.
So if you lose them, itjust what do you do? Like you
can't just have like Utah play OregonState every week. You might you could
just maybe create them Mountain West intoone thing. I don't know, it's
gonna be interesting. It's all aboutthe money, baby, it's not because
like you know, it's not evenwins, losses nothing, which it's crazy.

(45:07):
Yeah, it's it does. USChas had an awful decade now change
once they got Lincoln it changed.Yeah, it'll probably continue too. Yeah,
they're gonna be I mean I justsaw they got a dude from a
Georgia transfer defensive linemen. Uh,I think a corner from Alabama. I've
always said, like Lincoln's offense isnever gonna be an issue. It's gonna

(45:28):
be like the reason Pete one Nationalchampionships at USC defense recruit the best recruited,
like the SEC defense. You can'tgo to shootout every game. No,
well you look at the look atthe college football playoffs. Yeah,
you know, you just you gottaplay defense, I love it. Anything
you want to say before I wrapit up. Thanks for having me on
bro Dude, this is fun.Guys. John Middlecoff appreciate you. Check

(45:50):
out his podcast, Um Grab thefive Stars, buy some merch, have
yourself a beer, and uh bigthe juice baby,