Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I grew up in Boston, went to Stanford undergrad and
graduated in the spring of two thousand and nine, which
you know, up until for the spring of twenty twenty
was arguably the worst possible time to graduate. I think
seventy five percent of my class didn't have a job.
So I ended up joining the early team of a
startup that was kind of the only thing to do
out there at the time, and so was on the
(00:22):
early team of a company that eventually became known as
live Ramp, which is in the advertising technology space right now.
It's a publicly listed companies, so very early on got
exposure to the entrepreneurial journey and being a startup guy,
and was there for four years.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We actually ended up selling it to.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
A company called Axiom, which then subsequently spun it out
into a bublic company.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
But got an.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Early taste for entrepreneurship and haven't looked back since.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Well listen, you know, I know that, you know because
I had a kid just go through college, and I
remember with my college years that sometimes you figure out
what you're trying to do. And you mentioned about how
auspicious was when you were getting out into the real
world and You've probably had a plan, but it sounds
like you had to pivot. And I was talking this
series in this when we talked to entrepreneurs and people
that are leading companies that pivoting during tough times is
(01:14):
absolutely imperative to do. Also taking chances, and there's a
lot of other buzzwords that we use out there, but
it sounds like you really had to pivot. Can you
talk a little bit about that, because you know, when
you always have a plan and it doesn't come to fruition,
you either have to you know what, or get off
the pod. Tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's that's definitely true. You know,
certainly in my career, I thought that I was going
to go work on Wall Street when I was in college,
and that that didn't end up happening, and you know,
I end up in the tech world. And now, funny enough,
given that I run a fine company, I'm like, sort of,
you know, to have a foot in both camps. It's
funny how that sort of unfolded the way that it didn't.
(01:56):
But but you know, i'd say personally, certainly there were pivots,
and then also you know, professionally, when I think about
some of the things that we've done at FACET. When
we first started the company, we had a totally different
go to market strategy, uh, that we invested a lot
of time and resources in and you know, spend millions
of dollars pursuing and then you know, about two and
a half years in one day, we just woke up
and realized, you know what, this isn't working, and you know,
(02:18):
you kind of have to to really kind of walk
away from these sunk costs. And it's a very painful thing.
You know, sometimes you get tied up emotionally where it's
like this is something that I thought would work and
having to admit.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
That you're wrong. That's a really hard thing that for
a lot of people to do.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But then there's also the sort of practical and you know,
financial and logistical, you know, aspects of that. I mean,
you know, it impacted jobs, it impacted uh, you know,
certainly are our finances. But then ultimately we found the
right path. Uh and and you know, the rest has
been a success story. But yeah, I know, it's it's
going in and I think you know, the sort of
(02:56):
axiom that I always.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Follow is follow is seek truth.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Right, It's like it's actually better to find is what
is accurate than to be right, and I think that's
that served us pretty well in the last few years.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
All Right, well, your CEO and co founder are fast.
We're going to talk a lot about mission, what you do,
your programs, your capabilities, and everything about the company. But
I always like to start from the origin of the idea.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
You.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Obviously, you and your partners and people that are on
the team saw a hole in the industry that maybe, hey, listen,
I think we might have an id here where it's
not being service properly. I think we can execute something
here that could be cool. Can you talk about the
actually the origin of the idea of the company for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So after we sold Librand, one of the guys who
was on the board again inamed Patrick McKenney and I
had worked really closely together, you know, in a variety
of roles at Librand, and we said, hey, you know what,
let's keep working together. So we did some early stage
investing together. We are looking at at companies outside of
(03:57):
Silicon Valley. We both lived in San Francisco at the time,
and so that's actually funny enough what led us to Baltimore,
and you know part of the Orchard story of Facets.
I moved there in twenty fifteen, kind of sight unseen and.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Started a company there.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
But you know, we were like, all right, let's you know,
let's invest in companies, but let's really look for an
opportunity in a space that we both you know, have
a lot of passion about where we can build a
company that really helps people. You know, coming out of
the ad tech world where you know, you're basically optimizing
ad spend by you know, single digit basis points, you know,
(04:31):
the idea of doing something much more mission oriented where
you could actually impact people's lives in a positive way
really resonated. And so this was twenty fourteen twenty fifteen timeframe.
The first there's a lot going on in the fintech
and wealth tech space, you know, the first set of
robo advisors like wealth Front and Betterment and Personal Capital.
They were getting a lot of attention and a lot
(04:52):
of funding, and so we were kind of naturally drawn
to that area. And then what happened was in twenty fifteen,
the Obama ininistration tried to pass a rule called the
Fiduciary Rule, and basically it was a rule that, had
it passed, would have said that a financial advisor was
now legally obligated to act in the best interest of
their clients. So like crazy amountent Number one is like,
(05:15):
this isn't a rule. Even crazier is that that rule
didn't pass, and so to this day, it's actually not
a blanket requirement that a financial advisor acts in their
client's best interests. But when that was sort of all
up for debate, the industry pushback was, if you do this,
you're going to lose about eight million households are going
(05:35):
to lose certain advisor relationship because the advisor can't afford
to both service them and act in their best interest
at the same time, which was to me just a
very crazy sort of public admission from the industry that, yeah,
you know what, we're screwing eight million of our clients.
But honestly, it's better that they get screwed than to
not have access to an advisor.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And I think the sort of you know, second order
points there are.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Number One, there's a huge cost problem in the industry
right The cost of high quality financi advice is way
too high to both buy and to deliver it. And
the number two is that the business model is jacked
that you know, the asset based you know, charging a
charging a client a fee on your assets only works
if the client has a lot of assets. And guess what,
there are tens of millions of households out there that
(06:18):
don't have a huge amount of savings but still desperately
need access to high quality financial advice.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
So we put all those pieces together.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
That's when we sort of came up with the idea
of FACET, which is subscription based financial advice focus on
people that don't have the investable asset level to be
interesting to a traditional advisor, and also at a much
lower cost and in a totally unconflicted way where we
can legitimately say we are the only thing we care
about is acting in your best interest.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And that's the that's the company we came up with.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And you know, we're almost ten years in and we've
stayed very true to those to that mission well outstanding.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I appreciate you sharing all of that. Well, let's do this.
Let's talk about mission and vision and I don't know
if they've change over the last decade, but what are
they today?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
So I mean, we exist to help millions of Americans
live better financial lives and by extension, live better lives
in general, because you could very easily draw to draw
the line that you know, if you if your finances
are in order, you just have a better life, you.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Know, sort of rip large.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So you know, we we again sort of focus on
a very underserved market. The folks that we're working with
is about seventy million households in the US. You know,
it's people that don't have millions of dollars that really
a traditional advisor wouldn't work with them on.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
And we really see money as a means to an end.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
You know, we don't exist to manage money and charge
fees on it. We exist because we think that we
can help people manage their their overall financial life in
a in a better way and just lead to a
you know, a happier life today and you know, thirty
years in the future when when they retire. And so
you know that that's why we exist. And you know,
(08:01):
I'm really proud of the work that we've done. Right now,
we work about fifteen thousand households across the country, and
every single person at the company is you know, about
one hundred and seventy of us, so for right now,
and you know, every single person at the company is
here because of some connection to that core mission.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And you know, we celebrate our members'.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Successes on a daily basis and it's a great reason
to get up every morning.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
And as you were talking about this a little bit earlier,
but if you were to give everybody a thirty thousand
foot view and they're being introduced to FACT for the
first time, would you tell them you exactly do so.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
We do financial planning on a subscription basis. So if
you work with us, you work with a dedicated certified
financial planner. That person is an employee of FACET. They
are trained in our method of doing things. We will
look at everything in your life that money touches. So
you want to talk about your cash flow, we'll help
you with that. You want to talk about the trade
(08:58):
off between sending your kids to private school versus taking
care of your aging parents' healthcare bills, we'll talk about that.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
If you want us to manage your money, we'll do
it for you.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
We won't charge anything extra for it, and we will
and it's not a requirement to work with us. And
you can imagine there's fifty more topics that we know
that we can help you with. But at the end
of the day, what we do is we design a
very personalized and dynamic roadmap for you so that you
can think about your financial life today and oft into
(09:28):
the future and feel like real certainty and sort of
calm that you're on track to accomplish the goals that
you want to accomplish.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
So I'm pretty sure you've got a lot of people's
attention of how cool this idea is and mean disruptors
in the industry and underserve people that aren't able to
work with money managers and all the money that that
costed do those kind of things. With that said, can
you kind of take us through just a very easy
tutorial about how you sign up, maybe cost incurred, who
you get to talk to, and how things are managing
(09:58):
all the communication because I'm sure people are curious. I
know everything is said on the website. We're going to
give the website at the end of the interview, but
how does it all work?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Absolutely, so I'll do a quick plug to our website. Now,
facet dot com. You can go, you can sign up.
We have three different service levels, two thousand and three thousand,
six thousand dollars a year, and you know, it's a
little bit of a choose your own adventure.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
You can kind of decide what's the level of service
you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
You know, at the lower end, you'll work with a planner,
you'll get your roadmap, we'll manage money for you, and
you know, will help you with sort of all aspects
of your financial life. At the higher end, we're doing
everything up to like you know, notarizing your state planning documents.
It has much more of almost like a family office
feel to it. But you know, once you onboard, uh,
you know, we will work with you to sort of
gather all of your relevant financial data and you know,
(10:46):
step one is getting it all into one centralized hub,
you know, within our within our dashboard, where it's like, okay,
first of all, your financial life is now organized so
you can see it all in one place, and that,
you know, just right out of the gates is a
big value add for a lot of folks. And then
from there, you're working with your advisor and you're you know, understanding,
you're you're sort of balancing, you know, what are the
(11:08):
the goals that you have so we have a lot
of folks that come to us who they're number one
thing is they're just starting a family. They're getting married,
they're buying their first house, they're having their first kid,
and there's so many financial decisions and implications of all
of those things, and so it's like, okay, how do
we how do we help you navigate those And then
(11:29):
at the same time, we're also putting our fiduciary lens
on things and saying, okay, you know what, you don't
have a mistate plan.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You're about to have your first kid. We need to
help you take care of that.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
And so so you kind of put those things together
and you build this roadmap, you build action items.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
We will help you take action on the advice.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So you know, the if, for example, you don't have
a six month emergency fund to come, you know, to
cover six months of expenses. Will help you open a
high yield savings account. And again we don't make any
money on that. That's just it's the right thing to
do to help you to take action on your on
the advice that we give you. And then you know,
over the course of your relationship with us, like life
(12:06):
changes and we're there for you see, you can message us,
you can call us. You know, your advisor is there
to help you navigate the ins and outs of life
as it unfolds.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I don't want to assume that there's any other company,
either domestically or worldwide, that does exactly what you and
your team do. But if there is something that's similar
out there, and you're pitching yourself to people, how you
differentiating yourself from the competition.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
The way that I would describe it is that, you know,
the service that we offer certainly exists, but it's reserved
for people with millions of dollars. And so, you know,
if you'll forgive me the the analogy, you know, I
like to think. I like to say that, you know,
we're sort of a version of Uber for financial services,
where we're taking something that is you know, very expensive
(12:48):
and you know, uh, pretty exclusive, and we've made it
better and we've made it much more affordable and so
and so. Yeah, I mean, you know, the level service
that I'm talking about does exist, but you just you know,
for our average member, they're not gonna they're not gonna
be able to access it.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
When you're talking to an advisor, what qualifications do they have,
so everybody feels comfortable about the kind of relationship that
they have, but also that they're taking good care of
their money or they're giving them sound advice. What's the
what's the criteria for people that work for you, that
talk to your clients.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
So we hire Certified Financial Planners, which is the CFP
designation is sort of like the highest level of credentialing
you can get in financial advice. You know, apart from
the coursework, there's like a three year apprenticeship that these
folks go through, you know, so it's a it's a
it's a very sort of specialized and highly qualified individual
and we tend to hire folks that have, you know,
(13:43):
a decade plus of experience.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
We often get people coming to us from places like
Vanguard or Fidelity or Schwab, you know that that you know,
really really know what they're doing. But the other thing
I would say is that, you know, we've been very
adamant that, you know, the success or failure of your
real relationship with FACET shouldn't hinge only on the advisor
that you have. We have a fact way of doing things.
We have a FACET planning philosophy, you know, and we
(14:09):
have a you know, one consistent and sort of replicable
journey that we put our members through. And obviously it's
very personalized depending on your situation, but you know, we
are pretty opinionated about what the right order of operations
is to go through to make sure that you're you're
in a good spot. And so you know, at the
end of the day, if you know, for whatever reason,
we transition you from one advisor to another, your experience
(14:31):
won't change.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
I want to ask you about the work life balance
that everybody has now, and everybody's at home work, but
there's a lot of people being called back to the office,
especially where I'm calling you from in the DMV and
d C. With that said, I imagine that you're in
a very remote world. I didn't want to make any
assumptions about where all the people are, but I imagine
it is a very remote world. With that said, as
(14:54):
you lead the company and you want to make sure
that everybody has that great work life balance, but also
the execu shooting the vision that you want for the company,
how on earth does communication work with all your staff
when it comes to that, because that's you know, I
know it's a leadership thing and we talk about that
in the series, but I'm sure it's not an easy thing.
How do you do it?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, that's a that's a tough question, and frankly it's
a it's a moving target.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
We are, in fact, one hundred percent virtual.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Like I said, we've aboute hundred and seventy people across
I think we're in forty two different states at this point.
And so you know, we actually we had an office
prior to COVID in Baltimore, but at this point, you know,
the geniees out of the bottle and it'd be hard
to get everyone back in one spot. So, you know,
we we think very proactively about structured meetings and communication
(15:43):
points and check in. So we have you know, weekly
all hands we you know, where we're doing kind of
smaller you know, like kind of sound by type updates.
We have monthly uh you know, monthly broader meetings, and
then quarterly sort of like the full on you know,
here's the state of the company. And then we have
also been fairly targeted about getting people together in person
(16:04):
for very specific reasons, and it's actually caused us to
think pretty clearly about Okay, what is the type of
work that is best suited to being on your own
and not commuting and so like the individual financial planning
conversations that our advisors have, like that's a good example
versus one of the things where it's like actually being
in a room together will save you, you know, days
(16:27):
of back and forth on zoom and Slack. And you
know those are things like product development or the more
creative you know, like like building marketing campaigns, things like that,
and so you know, we're pretty balanced between you know,
we know when it's when the time is right to
get people in a room together, and we we don't
hesitate on that.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
So when it comes to all the programs and the capabilities,
what are most clients saying, you know, I really need
you for this? Because I know you offer a lot
of different things and you could talk about that, but
when it comes to maybe the top three, the top five,
you know, programs capability that you offer, the people say
I really need you for this, what are they talking
about to you?
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, I mean, look, the number one thing is, as
I said, it's like I'm starting a family and I
just don't really know how to even navigate this and
so you know, we get down to like, okay, the
cost of delivering a baby is X, how are we
going to make sure that you're you know, that that
is taken care of? So that's the probably the number
one you know, frankly, managing money is actually a big
(17:29):
value add.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
We don't you know, we don't lead with that.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It's like the number one thing that we do, but
it is a huge value add for folks where it's like, hey,
you know, I'm sitting on a couple hundred thousand dollars
in an old four one k. You know, how do
I even think about putting in the market in some
sort of diversified way. And and I'd say, you know,
we do do a good job there of helping people
understand that and you know, getting it in the market.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
In the right way.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
And then you know, and then there's there's broader things,
Like I said to state, planning is a big one.
Something like a percent of Americans don't have an estate plan.
It's crazy, and so so you know, we really help,
you know, help help with things like that. But as
I said, you know, there is no sort of like
one size fits all. Everyone has their own unique financial
life and journey that they're going through, and so, you know,
(18:18):
we just think about it. How do we modularize each
component of financial planning and make sure that we can
assemble it in a totally personalized way to meet you
wherever you are.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yeah, it's a great business model, if you don't mind
me saying, because once again, you customize it and you
have the three levels, which makes a lot of sense
depending on how much people want to spend and invest
with you as far as how much time they have
or their knowledge of it. And I love that, and
I think people are getting the idea about what exactly
you and your team do. With all that said, I
realize the world done fire. It's twenty twenty five. All
heck is break it looks right now. Financial the markets,
(18:50):
it's in the news all the time. With that said,
are there any current challenges that present itself to you
and your team right now?
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Funny enough, what we've found is actually the crazier the
market gets, the more the more demand there is for
our services. So we actually saw it, you know, in
April when the market was really uh you know, going
going a y and was quite volatile. That was actually
probably the one of the better months that we've had,
(19:17):
you know, just in terms of new demand. Yeah, yeah,
it is. It is a funny thing, but you know,
I think it just speaks to this idea that it's
like people value expertise, and you know, I'd also go
so far as to say, in this world where AI
is becoming increasingly prevalent, people value the human to human connection.
We've actually done a lot of research on this right
now where we're trying to understand what is the perception,
(19:39):
the consumer perception of AI in financial planning and just
someone you know, people want to build a people want
to build a or excuse me, do people want to
want to work with a purely AI financial advisor? And
the answer overwhelmingly is no. That people value the human
to human connection. They expect that the advisor is going
to be using some version of AI to do a
(20:01):
better job for them, but at the end of the day,
they want the human makes sense.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I wanted to ask you about leadership and if you
can indulge me for a second, because there's a lot
of people like you from maybe ten twenty years ago
before you got your startups and you started to really
build your business. Over the last decade or about wondering
about what I need to do, how do I do it?
I realized that your journey is very specific to you.
But when it comes to starting up and also leadership
(20:28):
with the type of company you have, that's one hundred
percent virtual. I'd love to get some advice from you
on leadership and a startup.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
That's a broad question, you know, I would say as
far as starting a company and getting going, you know,
I mean, the number one piece of us I have
is like, just you just have to start doing things.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I've seen a lot of ideas.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I mean, as you can imagine, you know, at this point,
you know, ten years into the journey, I get a
lot of inbound from younger CEOs or you know, first
time entrepreneurs, and I see so many good ideas and
well intentioned people who are just paralyzed by this by
analysis without taking the first step.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
And I think one thing that we've done a good
job of.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Is really just saying, hey, you know, if we're if
we're eighty percent certain on something it's good enough, we're
going to try it, and then we're goinging a bunch
of data and feedback and iterate on it and see
what happens. Yeah, but it's like until you you know,
there's what's that ould saying. It's like, you know, no
plan survives the first contact with the enemy. You actually
(21:35):
have to go into battle and have that contact so
that you can understand what the new plan needs to be.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I'm glad you brought this up because there's something that
I would live by and I learned a long time
ago in my business in radio and television sports, is
that I was kind of sitting on something. This is
years ago as I was a young program director, and
I remember my boss said, listen, I just want you
to run a play and then we'll figure it out.
And I think that's what you're saying, right, one hundred percent, yeah,
one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, And you know, I think that actually that actually
kind of folds nicely into the leadership question, which is
that people, at the end of the day, if you're
winning in whatever way you define that, whether you're delivering
great client outcomes, or you're hitting a target, or you're
or frankly you're you're learning and you're you're iterating and
(22:19):
you're you're growing, that basically takes care of all your
cultural problems, you know, and maybe not all but but,
but almost all of your your cultural problems, and that
that if you can lead a winning team, the leadership
takes care of itself. And so I spent a lot
of time thinking about how can I make sure that
(22:41):
our team feels like they're winning and uh and and
how do how do you make.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
People feel fulfilled?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Because if you're doing fulfilling work and you're succeeding at it,
I mean, that's that's the winning combination right there.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
It's great advice. And I think the other thing we've
learned in the series too, that you just have to
take some chances out there and as it's not always
going to work out, but it's how you respond to
the mistakes or the failures. And this goes with sports,
and that goes with life and having a family or
no family, or doing a startup. I think it's great advice.
I'm glad you shared that with our listeners. I did
want to get some final thoughts from you, and then
we want to give the website one more time. And
(23:15):
I know a lot of people are interested if you're hiring,
because you're probably looking for the best of the best,
so you can talk about that and just some moment Anders,
but just some final thoughts about what we talked about
and kind of recapping everything, and then the website. Sir,
the floor is yours.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Well, I appreciate that. I mean, I think that you know, we.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Are living in an era of immense change and opportunity.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
No matter how you look at it.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
You know, entire industries are going to be upended by
artificial intelligence, and frankly, I think at the end of
the day, the consumer is going to benefit. And so
you know, we happen to have found our niche in
financial planning and financial advice.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Fortunately it's a very big niche. So you know, I'm
very bullish on our prospects.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
But I think you're going to see this across across
all industry, and I think it's an incredibly exciting time.
I think that, you know, like I said, consumers are
going to benefit. I think, you know, the American economy
is going to benefit. And you know, I think there's
no better time than now to be an entrepreneur starting
a company and thinking about disrupting a major industry.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
All right, website, and are you hiring Facet dot com?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
And you better believe it. At Facet dot com, slash careers.
If you're interested in that, we're hiring across a bunch
of different roles.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I think we have like twenty five open positions right now.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
But you know, back to my earlier point around artificial
intelligence heavy MPs on data science.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
And machine learning. So if you're interested in that, come
come our way for sure.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Outstanding. Well, listen, you kind of eluded this a little
bit earlier, and I was thinking this the whole time,
and when I found out about your company, I'm saying,
you guys are disruptors because there's been a place that
people can go if they have a lot of money,
But what about the people that don't. They want to
invest or do estate planning. And you've hit it really
well the nail on the head, and I'm glad that
ten years in it's a very successful company. I know
(25:01):
you have a lot more growth to go, but I
wish you nothing but the best and continue success to
you and your team. And it really was nice to
feature you Andrews on CEOs. You should know, so thank
you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Thanks, Dennis, I really appreciate it.
I grew up in Boston, went to Stanford undergrad and
graduated in the spring of two thousand and nine, which
you know, up until for the spring of twenty twenty
was arguably the worst possible time to graduate. I think
seventy five percent of my class didn't have a job.
So I ended up joining the early team of a
startup that was kind of the only thing to do
out there at the time, and so was on the
(00:22):
early team of a company that eventually became known as
live Ramp, which is in the advertising technology space right now.
It's a publicly listed companies, so very early on got
exposure to the entrepreneurial journey and being a startup guy,
and was there for four years.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We actually ended up selling it to.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
A company called Axiom, which then subsequently spun it out
into a bublic company.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
But got an.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Early taste for entrepreneurship and haven't looked back since.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Well listen, you know, I know that, you know because
I had a kid just go through college, and I
remember with my college years that sometimes you figure out
what you're trying to do. And you mentioned about how
auspicious was when you were getting out into the real
world and You've probably had a plan, but it sounds
like you had to pivot. And I was talking this
series in this when we talked to entrepreneurs and people
that are leading companies that pivoting during tough times is
(01:14):
absolutely imperative to do. Also taking chances, and there's a
lot of other buzzwords that we use out there, but
it sounds like you really had to pivot. Can you
talk a little bit about that, because you know, when
you always have a plan and it doesn't come to fruition,
you either have to you know what, or get off
the pod. Tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's that's definitely true. You know,
certainly in my career, I thought that I was going
to go work on Wall Street when I was in college,
and that that didn't end up happening, and you know,
I end up in the tech world. And now, funny enough,
given that I run a fine company, I'm like, sort of,
you know, to have a foot in both camps. It's
funny how that sort of unfolded the way that it didn't.
(01:56):
But but you know, i'd say personally, certainly there were pivots,
and then also you know, professionally, when I think about
some of the things that we've done at FACET. When
we first started the company, we had a totally different
go to market strategy, uh, that we invested a lot
of time and resources in and you know, spend millions
of dollars pursuing and then you know, about two and
a half years in one day, we just woke up
and realized, you know what, this isn't working, and you know,
(02:18):
you kind of have to to really kind of walk
away from these sunk costs. And it's a very painful thing.
You know, sometimes you get tied up emotionally where it's
like this is something that I thought would work and
having to admit.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
That you're wrong. That's a really hard thing that for
a lot of people to do.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But then there's also the sort of practical and you know,
financial and logistical, you know, aspects of that. I mean,
you know, it impacted jobs, it impacted uh, you know,
certainly are our finances. But then ultimately we found the
right path. Uh and and you know, the rest has
been a success story. But yeah, I know, it's it's
going in and I think you know, the sort of
(02:56):
axiom that I always.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Follow is follow is seek truth.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Right, It's like it's actually better to find is what
is accurate than to be right, and I think that's
that served us pretty well in the last few years.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
All Right, well, your CEO and co founder are fast.
We're going to talk a lot about mission, what you do,
your programs, your capabilities, and everything about the company. But
I always like to start from the origin of the idea.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
You.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Obviously, you and your partners and people that are on
the team saw a hole in the industry that maybe, hey, listen,
I think we might have an id here where it's
not being service properly. I think we can execute something
here that could be cool. Can you talk about the
actually the origin of the idea of the company for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So after we sold Librand, one of the guys who
was on the board again inamed Patrick McKenney and I
had worked really closely together, you know, in a variety
of roles at Librand, and we said, hey, you know what,
let's keep working together. So we did some early stage
investing together. We are looking at at companies outside of
(03:57):
Silicon Valley. We both lived in San Francisco at the time,
and so that's actually funny enough what led us to Baltimore,
and you know part of the Orchard story of Facets.
I moved there in twenty fifteen, kind of sight unseen and.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Started a company there.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
But you know, we were like, all right, let's you know,
let's invest in companies, but let's really look for an
opportunity in a space that we both you know, have
a lot of passion about where we can build a
company that really helps people. You know, coming out of
the ad tech world where you know, you're basically optimizing
ad spend by you know, single digit basis points, you know,
(04:31):
the idea of doing something much more mission oriented where
you could actually impact people's lives in a positive way
really resonated. And so this was twenty fourteen twenty fifteen timeframe.
The first there's a lot going on in the fintech
and wealth tech space, you know, the first set of
robo advisors like wealth Front and Betterment and Personal Capital.
They were getting a lot of attention and a lot
(04:52):
of funding, and so we were kind of naturally drawn
to that area. And then what happened was in twenty fifteen,
the Obama ininistration tried to pass a rule called the
Fiduciary Rule, and basically it was a rule that, had
it passed, would have said that a financial advisor was
now legally obligated to act in the best interest of
their clients. So like crazy amountent Number one is like,
(05:15):
this isn't a rule. Even crazier is that that rule
didn't pass, and so to this day, it's actually not
a blanket requirement that a financial advisor acts in their
client's best interests. But when that was sort of all
up for debate, the industry pushback was, if you do this,
you're going to lose about eight million households are going
(05:35):
to lose certain advisor relationship because the advisor can't afford
to both service them and act in their best interest
at the same time, which was to me just a
very crazy sort of public admission from the industry that, yeah,
you know what, we're screwing eight million of our clients.
But honestly, it's better that they get screwed than to
not have access to an advisor.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And I think the sort of you know, second order
points there are.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Number One, there's a huge cost problem in the industry
right The cost of high quality financi advice is way
too high to both buy and to deliver it. And
the number two is that the business model is jacked
that you know, the asset based you know, charging a
charging a client a fee on your assets only works
if the client has a lot of assets. And guess what,
there are tens of millions of households out there that
(06:18):
don't have a huge amount of savings but still desperately
need access to high quality financial advice.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
So we put all those pieces together.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
That's when we sort of came up with the idea
of FACET, which is subscription based financial advice focus on
people that don't have the investable asset level to be
interesting to a traditional advisor, and also at a much
lower cost and in a totally unconflicted way where we
can legitimately say we are the only thing we care
about is acting in your best interest.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And that's the that's the company we came up with.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And you know, we're almost ten years in and we've
stayed very true to those to that mission well outstanding.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I appreciate you sharing all of that. Well, let's do this.
Let's talk about mission and vision and I don't know
if they've change over the last decade, but what are
they today?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
So I mean, we exist to help millions of Americans
live better financial lives and by extension, live better lives
in general, because you could very easily draw to draw
the line that you know, if you if your finances
are in order, you just have a better life, you.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Know, sort of rip large.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So you know, we we again sort of focus on
a very underserved market. The folks that we're working with
is about seventy million households in the US. You know,
it's people that don't have millions of dollars that really
a traditional advisor wouldn't work with them on.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
And we really see money as a means to an end.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
You know, we don't exist to manage money and charge
fees on it. We exist because we think that we
can help people manage their their overall financial life in
a in a better way and just lead to a
you know, a happier life today and you know, thirty
years in the future when when they retire. And so
you know that that's why we exist. And you know,
(08:01):
I'm really proud of the work that we've done. Right now,
we work about fifteen thousand households across the country, and
every single person at the company is you know, about
one hundred and seventy of us, so for right now,
and you know, every single person at the company is
here because of some connection to that core mission.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And you know, we celebrate our members'.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Successes on a daily basis and it's a great reason
to get up every morning.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
And as you were talking about this a little bit earlier,
but if you were to give everybody a thirty thousand
foot view and they're being introduced to FACT for the
first time, would you tell them you exactly do so.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
We do financial planning on a subscription basis. So if
you work with us, you work with a dedicated certified
financial planner. That person is an employee of FACET. They
are trained in our method of doing things. We will
look at everything in your life that money touches. So
you want to talk about your cash flow, we'll help
you with that. You want to talk about the trade
(08:58):
off between sending your kids to private school versus taking
care of your aging parents' healthcare bills, we'll talk about that.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
If you want us to manage your money, we'll do
it for you.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
We won't charge anything extra for it, and we will
and it's not a requirement to work with us. And
you can imagine there's fifty more topics that we know
that we can help you with. But at the end
of the day, what we do is we design a
very personalized and dynamic roadmap for you so that you
can think about your financial life today and oft into
(09:28):
the future and feel like real certainty and sort of
calm that you're on track to accomplish the goals that
you want to accomplish.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
So I'm pretty sure you've got a lot of people's
attention of how cool this idea is and mean disruptors
in the industry and underserve people that aren't able to
work with money managers and all the money that that
costed do those kind of things. With that said, can
you kind of take us through just a very easy
tutorial about how you sign up, maybe cost incurred, who
you get to talk to, and how things are managing
(09:58):
all the communication because I'm sure people are curious. I
know everything is said on the website. We're going to
give the website at the end of the interview, but
how does it all work?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Absolutely, so I'll do a quick plug to our website. Now,
facet dot com. You can go, you can sign up.
We have three different service levels, two thousand and three thousand,
six thousand dollars a year, and you know, it's a
little bit of a choose your own adventure.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
You can kind of decide what's the level of service
you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
You know, at the lower end, you'll work with a planner,
you'll get your roadmap, we'll manage money for you, and
you know, will help you with sort of all aspects
of your financial life. At the higher end, we're doing
everything up to like you know, notarizing your state planning documents.
It has much more of almost like a family office
feel to it. But you know, once you onboard, uh,
you know, we will work with you to sort of
gather all of your relevant financial data and you know,
(10:46):
step one is getting it all into one centralized hub,
you know, within our within our dashboard, where it's like, okay,
first of all, your financial life is now organized so
you can see it all in one place, and that,
you know, just right out of the gates is a
big value add for a lot of folks. And then
from there, you're working with your advisor and you're you know, understanding,
you're you're sort of balancing, you know, what are the
(11:08):
the goals that you have so we have a lot
of folks that come to us who they're number one
thing is they're just starting a family. They're getting married,
they're buying their first house, they're having their first kid,
and there's so many financial decisions and implications of all
of those things, and so it's like, okay, how do
we how do we help you navigate those And then
(11:29):
at the same time, we're also putting our fiduciary lens
on things and saying, okay, you know what, you don't
have a mistate plan.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You're about to have your first kid. We need to
help you take care of that.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
And so so you kind of put those things together
and you build this roadmap, you build action items.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
We will help you take action on the advice.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So you know, the if, for example, you don't have
a six month emergency fund to come, you know, to
cover six months of expenses. Will help you open a
high yield savings account. And again we don't make any
money on that. That's just it's the right thing to
do to help you to take action on your on
the advice that we give you. And then you know,
over the course of your relationship with us, like life
(12:06):
changes and we're there for you see, you can message us,
you can call us. You know, your advisor is there
to help you navigate the ins and outs of life
as it unfolds.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I don't want to assume that there's any other company,
either domestically or worldwide, that does exactly what you and
your team do. But if there is something that's similar
out there, and you're pitching yourself to people, how you
differentiating yourself from the competition.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
The way that I would describe it is that, you know,
the service that we offer certainly exists, but it's reserved
for people with millions of dollars. And so, you know,
if you'll forgive me the the analogy, you know, I
like to think. I like to say that, you know,
we're sort of a version of Uber for financial services,
where we're taking something that is you know, very expensive
(12:48):
and you know, uh, pretty exclusive, and we've made it
better and we've made it much more affordable and so
and so. Yeah, I mean, you know, the level service
that I'm talking about does exist, but you just you know,
for our average member, they're not gonna they're not gonna
be able to access it.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
When you're talking to an advisor, what qualifications do they have,
so everybody feels comfortable about the kind of relationship that
they have, but also that they're taking good care of
their money or they're giving them sound advice. What's the
what's the criteria for people that work for you, that
talk to your clients.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
So we hire Certified Financial Planners, which is the CFP
designation is sort of like the highest level of credentialing
you can get in financial advice. You know, apart from
the coursework, there's like a three year apprenticeship that these
folks go through, you know, so it's a it's a
it's a very sort of specialized and highly qualified individual
and we tend to hire folks that have, you know,
(13:43):
a decade plus of experience.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
We often get people coming to us from places like
Vanguard or Fidelity or Schwab, you know that that you know,
really really know what they're doing. But the other thing
I would say is that, you know, we've been very
adamant that, you know, the success or failure of your
real relationship with FACET shouldn't hinge only on the advisor
that you have. We have a fact way of doing things.
We have a FACET planning philosophy, you know, and we
(14:09):
have a you know, one consistent and sort of replicable
journey that we put our members through. And obviously it's
very personalized depending on your situation, but you know, we
are pretty opinionated about what the right order of operations
is to go through to make sure that you're you're
in a good spot. And so you know, at the
end of the day, if you know, for whatever reason,
we transition you from one advisor to another, your experience
(14:31):
won't change.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
I want to ask you about the work life balance
that everybody has now, and everybody's at home work, but
there's a lot of people being called back to the office,
especially where I'm calling you from in the DMV and
d C. With that said, I imagine that you're in
a very remote world. I didn't want to make any
assumptions about where all the people are, but I imagine
it is a very remote world. With that said, as
(14:54):
you lead the company and you want to make sure
that everybody has that great work life balance, but also
the execu shooting the vision that you want for the company,
how on earth does communication work with all your staff
when it comes to that, because that's you know, I
know it's a leadership thing and we talk about that
in the series, but I'm sure it's not an easy thing.
How do you do it?
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, that's a that's a tough question, and frankly it's
a it's a moving target.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
We are, in fact, one hundred percent virtual.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Like I said, we've aboute hundred and seventy people across
I think we're in forty two different states at this point.
And so you know, we actually we had an office
prior to COVID in Baltimore, but at this point, you know,
the geniees out of the bottle and it'd be hard
to get everyone back in one spot. So, you know,
we we think very proactively about structured meetings and communication
(15:43):
points and check in. So we have you know, weekly
all hands we you know, where we're doing kind of
smaller you know, like kind of sound by type updates.
We have monthly uh you know, monthly broader meetings, and
then quarterly sort of like the full on you know,
here's the state of the company. And then we have
also been fairly targeted about getting people together in person
(16:04):
for very specific reasons, and it's actually caused us to
think pretty clearly about Okay, what is the type of
work that is best suited to being on your own
and not commuting and so like the individual financial planning
conversations that our advisors have, like that's a good example
versus one of the things where it's like actually being
in a room together will save you, you know, days
(16:27):
of back and forth on zoom and Slack. And you
know those are things like product development or the more
creative you know, like like building marketing campaigns, things like that,
and so you know, we're pretty balanced between you know,
we know when it's when the time is right to
get people in a room together, and we we don't
hesitate on that.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
So when it comes to all the programs and the capabilities,
what are most clients saying, you know, I really need
you for this? Because I know you offer a lot
of different things and you could talk about that, but
when it comes to maybe the top three, the top five,
you know, programs capability that you offer, the people say
I really need you for this, what are they talking
about to you?
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, I mean, look, the number one thing is, as
I said, it's like I'm starting a family and I
just don't really know how to even navigate this and
so you know, we get down to like, okay, the
cost of delivering a baby is X, how are we
going to make sure that you're you know, that that
is taken care of? So that's the probably the number
one you know, frankly, managing money is actually a big
(17:29):
value add.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
We don't you know, we don't lead with that.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It's like the number one thing that we do, but
it is a huge value add for folks where it's like, hey,
you know, I'm sitting on a couple hundred thousand dollars
in an old four one k. You know, how do
I even think about putting in the market in some
sort of diversified way. And and I'd say, you know,
we do do a good job there of helping people
understand that and you know, getting it in the market.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
In the right way.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
And then you know, and then there's there's broader things,
Like I said to state, planning is a big one.
Something like a percent of Americans don't have an estate plan.
It's crazy, and so so you know, we really help,
you know, help help with things like that. But as
I said, you know, there is no sort of like
one size fits all. Everyone has their own unique financial
life and journey that they're going through, and so, you know,
(18:18):
we just think about it. How do we modularize each
component of financial planning and make sure that we can
assemble it in a totally personalized way to meet you
wherever you are.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yeah, it's a great business model, if you don't mind
me saying, because once again, you customize it and you
have the three levels, which makes a lot of sense
depending on how much people want to spend and invest
with you as far as how much time they have
or their knowledge of it. And I love that, and
I think people are getting the idea about what exactly
you and your team do. With all that said, I
realize the world done fire. It's twenty twenty five. All
heck is break it looks right now. Financial the markets,
(18:50):
it's in the news all the time. With that said,
are there any current challenges that present itself to you
and your team right now?
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Funny enough, what we've found is actually the crazier the
market gets, the more the more demand there is for
our services. So we actually saw it, you know, in
April when the market was really uh you know, going
going a y and was quite volatile. That was actually
probably the one of the better months that we've had,
(19:17):
you know, just in terms of new demand. Yeah, yeah,
it is. It is a funny thing, but you know,
I think it just speaks to this idea that it's
like people value expertise, and you know, I'd also go
so far as to say, in this world where AI
is becoming increasingly prevalent, people value the human to human connection.
We've actually done a lot of research on this right
now where we're trying to understand what is the perception,
(19:39):
the consumer perception of AI in financial planning and just
someone you know, people want to build a people want
to build a or excuse me, do people want to
want to work with a purely AI financial advisor? And
the answer overwhelmingly is no. That people value the human
to human connection. They expect that the advisor is going
to be using some version of AI to do a
(20:01):
better job for them, but at the end of the day,
they want the human makes sense.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I wanted to ask you about leadership and if you
can indulge me for a second, because there's a lot
of people like you from maybe ten twenty years ago
before you got your startups and you started to really
build your business. Over the last decade or about wondering
about what I need to do, how do I do it?
I realized that your journey is very specific to you.
But when it comes to starting up and also leadership
(20:28):
with the type of company you have, that's one hundred
percent virtual. I'd love to get some advice from you
on leadership and a startup.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
That's a broad question, you know, I would say as
far as starting a company and getting going, you know,
I mean, the number one piece of us I have
is like, just you just have to start doing things.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I've seen a lot of ideas.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I mean, as you can imagine, you know, at this point,
you know, ten years into the journey, I get a
lot of inbound from younger CEOs or you know, first
time entrepreneurs, and I see so many good ideas and
well intentioned people who are just paralyzed by this by
analysis without taking the first step.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
And I think one thing that we've done a good
job of.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Is really just saying, hey, you know, if we're if
we're eighty percent certain on something it's good enough, we're
going to try it, and then we're goinging a bunch
of data and feedback and iterate on it and see
what happens. Yeah, but it's like until you you know,
there's what's that ould saying. It's like, you know, no
plan survives the first contact with the enemy. You actually
(21:35):
have to go into battle and have that contact so
that you can understand what the new plan needs to be.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I'm glad you brought this up because there's something that
I would live by and I learned a long time
ago in my business in radio and television sports, is
that I was kind of sitting on something. This is
years ago as I was a young program director, and
I remember my boss said, listen, I just want you
to run a play and then we'll figure it out.
And I think that's what you're saying, right, one hundred percent, yeah,
one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, And you know, I think that actually that actually
kind of folds nicely into the leadership question, which is
that people, at the end of the day, if you're
winning in whatever way you define that, whether you're delivering
great client outcomes, or you're hitting a target, or you're
or frankly you're you're learning and you're you're iterating and
(22:19):
you're you're growing, that basically takes care of all your
cultural problems, you know, and maybe not all but but,
but almost all of your your cultural problems, and that
that if you can lead a winning team, the leadership
takes care of itself. And so I spent a lot
of time thinking about how can I make sure that
(22:41):
our team feels like they're winning and uh and and
how do how do you make.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
People feel fulfilled?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Because if you're doing fulfilling work and you're succeeding at it,
I mean, that's that's the winning combination right there.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
It's great advice. And I think the other thing we've
learned in the series too, that you just have to
take some chances out there and as it's not always
going to work out, but it's how you respond to
the mistakes or the failures. And this goes with sports,
and that goes with life and having a family or
no family, or doing a startup. I think it's great advice.
I'm glad you shared that with our listeners. I did
want to get some final thoughts from you, and then
we want to give the website one more time. And
(23:15):
I know a lot of people are interested if you're hiring,
because you're probably looking for the best of the best,
so you can talk about that and just some moment Anders,
but just some final thoughts about what we talked about
and kind of recapping everything, and then the website. Sir,
the floor is yours.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Well, I appreciate that. I mean, I think that you know, we.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Are living in an era of immense change and opportunity.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
No matter how you look at it.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
You know, entire industries are going to be upended by
artificial intelligence, and frankly, I think at the end of
the day, the consumer is going to benefit. And so
you know, we happen to have found our niche in
financial planning and financial advice.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Fortunately it's a very big niche. So you know, I'm
very bullish on our prospects.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
But I think you're going to see this across across
all industry, and I think it's an incredibly exciting time.
I think that, you know, like I said, consumers are
going to benefit. I think, you know, the American economy
is going to benefit. And you know, I think there's
no better time than now to be an entrepreneur starting
a company and thinking about disrupting a major industry.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
All right, website, and are you hiring Facet dot com?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
And you better believe it. At Facet dot com, slash careers.
If you're interested in that, we're hiring across a bunch
of different roles.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I think we have like twenty five open positions right now.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
But you know, back to my earlier point around artificial
intelligence heavy MPs on data science.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
And machine learning. So if you're interested in that, come
come our way for sure.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Outstanding. Well, listen, you kind of eluded this a little
bit earlier, and I was thinking this the whole time,
and when I found out about your company, I'm saying,
you guys are disruptors because there's been a place that
people can go if they have a lot of money,
But what about the people that don't. They want to
invest or do estate planning. And you've hit it really
well the nail on the head, and I'm glad that
ten years in it's a very successful company. I know
(25:01):
you have a lot more growth to go, but I
wish you nothing but the best and continue success to
you and your team. And it really was nice to
feature you Andrews on CEOs. You should know, so thank
you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Thanks, Dennis, I really appreciate it.
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