April 18, 2024 • 22 mins
Ben Garthwaite
Ben serves as CEO of Fors Marsh and guides the company’s business growth and diversification. He cultivates a purpose-driven culture focused on using business as a force for good, with the belief that businesses must share responsibility for strengthening the systems in which we operate. He is committed to evolving company policies and practices so that each of Fors Marsh’s key stakeholder groups—community, client, employee, and planet—are positively impacted. Under his leadership, Fors Marsh has earned B Corporation certification, has become a JUST employer, and received Top Workplace USA, the Northern Virginia Family Service CARE, and Inc. 5000 Hall of Fame awards, to name a few. Over Ben’s tenure, Fors Marsh has grown from 20 employees and $5M in revenue to more than 400 employees with annual revenues exceeding $100M. Prior to joining Fors Marsh, he spent a decade in the technology industry supporting and leading programs serving military personnel and their families.
Ben serves as CEO of Fors Marsh and guides the company’s business growth and diversification. He cultivates a purpose-driven culture focused on using business as a force for good, with the belief that businesses must share responsibility for strengthening the systems in which we operate. He is committed to evolving company policies and practices so that each of Fors Marsh’s key stakeholder groups—community, client, employee, and planet—are positively impacted. Under his leadership, Fors Marsh has earned B Corporation certification, has become a JUST employer, and received Top Workplace USA, the Northern Virginia Family Service CARE, and Inc. 5000 Hall of Fame awards, to name a few. Over Ben’s tenure, Fors Marsh has grown from 20 employees and $5M in revenue to more than 400 employees with annual revenues exceeding $100M. Prior to joining Fors Marsh, he spent a decade in the technology industry supporting and leading programs serving military personnel and their families.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
M and T Bank presents CEOs youshould know powered by iHeart Media. Let's
be Ben Garthway. He is theCEO for Forst. Marsh Certified b Corp.
That conducts and implements research to solvecomplex challenges for public and private sector
clients. Before we talk more aboutBen's company, I first asked him to
talk a little bit about himself,where he's from, and his origin story.
(00:23):
I was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, grew up in that area,
stayed nearby Ish. I went tothe University of Wisconsin Madison, studied finance
and investment in banking, which Ilearned a time, but it wasn't necessarily
something I was super passionate about,but yeah, and then moved to DC
(00:44):
area where there was a much biggerjob market and because I was interested in
passionate about government, right I gotgrowing up. My dad worked for the
Foreigner of VENTERMS Affairs an entire career, and my mom worked for the local
government and post school system, sopiqued interest early. So a lot of
our listeners know that I'm a bigsports fan. Does that mean you're a
(01:06):
Packers fan being from the Milwaukee areafor sure? And they are on the
rise, my friend, Yes,they are. You've also had some really
good years too, my friend.Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we
have a moment downturn, but we'reback on the upswing. And I've actually
been to a game there and thewhole city shuts down. It's fanatical.
(01:26):
And I always tell everybody if youhave a sports bucket list, go see
a Packers game. That is justa magical experience. Probably best not to
do it in like December January,but any of the other months here living
good, call well, listen.I also want to talk to you about
This is for context for listeners,because of course we're here to talk to
you about Forest Marsh, your companyand all that you do. And you've
(01:49):
been with them for you know,it's it's not almost two decades, it's
fourteen and a half years, butthat is a long time to be at
any place. But as you werecoming out of school, what did you
want to do? Yeah, soI had that real interest in government,
and I landed a job out herein the technology industry, primarily supporting military
personnel and families, and I didthat for about just over ten years,
(02:14):
and then yeah, in two thousandand nine, took a chance joining a
twenty person company Forest Marsh And atthe time, you know, the company
was small by measures of like employeesand revenue, but it was already really
big if you think about priorities andheart and value, and so give me
(02:36):
a real chance to be a placewhere I could help shape the future,
not just be along for the ride. And yeah, here I am today,
fourteen plus years later. And forsome more context, the company was
founded in two thousand and two.And I'm curious for our listeners too,
because you've had a really cool ascensionin this company, and that doesn't happen
to everybody. And some people don'tlike to stay at a company and grow
(02:59):
and maybe think they're going to beCEO run the company. Everybody's a little
bit different. But as you joinedthe company, you obviously felt heard and
thought that something could be very special. Can you share with us your personal
experience about what you thought might happenat joining a pretty young company. What
was clear to me on day onewas the values. And I was at
(03:20):
a company, a publicly traded,large company, and we were working on
issues that I cared about. Butthe prioritization at all times was about how
do we make our numbers, howdo we hit that quarter of the earnings
number? And the minute I showedup at Forst. Marsh it was obvious
through every action and that everything wasabout how do we best serve this client
(03:46):
in this issue, How do wedeliver better? How do we think through
the effect of our actions downstream?How do we make sure we delivered outcomes
at last? And that is thatmotivates me to get up in the morning,
not to make sure I make anumber for somebody. Well, that
makes a lot of sense, andI can already sense your passion and as
we talk in this series, there'sa lot of leaders out there that have
(04:08):
passion for what they do, notonly their staff, but what they're exactly
doing that as you mentioned, theyget up every day. So we're going
to talk about what you do,and we're going to get into the weeds
on a few things when it comesto the company. But I did want
to talk about mission statement for ourlisteners and then we'll talk about exactly what
you do. But what is themission statement of the company. We exist
to drive lasting social change and thatis as big as all outdoors. So
(04:33):
on narrow it down, we arespecifically focused on promoting a healthier America for
all, building resilient, sustainable communities, and developing stronger institutions. And by
stronger I mean effective, accountable,and inclusive. You did me a favor
there, and I appreciate when CEOsand leaders do this, and I know
(04:54):
that you meant to do it,Ben, is that you give context to
your mission statement. Because every body'sgot a mission statement out there, some
are a little glitzier more than others. But you gave context to exactly why
that is. And thank you fordoing that, because I think that's a
good listen. That's a really goodlesson for all our future leaders out there
that context does matters. And alsoI noticed when I was on the website
(05:15):
and studying about you and the companyand all the cool things that you do
that we're going to talk in amoment, there's a lot of transparency.
And I know it talks about valuesand there's a lot of transparency. Not
everybody does that in this industry.So we'll get that to in a minute,
but I want to mention that Inoticed that just popping on there and
seeing all the incredible things you do. Okay, let's do this. If
you were to give a thirty thousandfoot view to our listeners that maybe don't
(05:39):
know about the company. What wouldyou tell them that you exactly do?
We frame our approach in kind ofthree phases. We listen, we create,
and we adapt. So listening isabout the evidence. We're a research
first company, so research isn't allthat we do, but it's foundational to
how we approach every challenge. Right, So that mean to bring in voice
to the table, hearing from thosewith lived experience on issue and nothing can
(06:02):
be done without this step. Thatguide's everything we do from there. And
the second thing we do is wecreate and this is about moving people that
action and that creation. That cantake a lot of forms as well.
It could be policy change, couldbe a process, could be a training,
could be technology, could be acommunication or a campaign. But the
term create here is actually very important. None of the issues that we're taking
(06:24):
on, I mean you heard themission right, none of these are moved
by the status quo. We haveto bring our best thinking in creativity on
no matter what. And then thelast one is adapt and this is about
learning. Right. We got togo back to the Evans. We got
to say what worked, what didn'twork. How can we improve? We
have to always be learning, andso the majority of our work is actually
with the federal government, but wehave a growing footprint with states, with
(06:47):
nonprofits and commercial forms as well.So, Ben, I'm curious when it
comes to evolution. Obviously, companieschange, they get sustainable, and then
they grow. You've been there fora long time. We mentioned fourteen and
a half years from what you startedto where you are now and almost the
last four and a half years ofCEO. How has the company evolved for
you and your team? So thevalues have stayed largely the same. But
(07:09):
what we found we started really asa research we're a research first company throughout,
but we were doing exclusively research earlyon, and what ended up happening
is it wasn't It wasn't it didn'tget all the way to the outcome.
So it required us to continue toexpand the services that we provided to make
(07:30):
sure that we're actually affecting change.I mean, one of our values is
about doing work that has an impact. It has to matter, and so
we're not doing research so that areport can go on a shelf somewhere.
We're doing research so that, uh, you know, more people think about
military as a career option, sothat more people that are at risk get
a cancer screen. We're doing thingswith an outcome in mind, and so
(07:56):
you can't just stop at research becausethere has to be an action that follows.
That makes a lot of sense.And I'm glad you mentioned impact because
social impact and I'm just going tomake an assumption in your industry is they're
a very big deal up there,and perception sometimes can be reality. With
all that said, you made anacquisition when it came to a social impact
marketing team. Can you tell usabout the acquisition and why you made that.
(08:18):
Yes, yes we did. Weacquired Brunette Garcia. That's a firm
we've partnered with and frankly admired fora lot of years and when we thought
about the potential of what we coulddo together, it was too compelling to
pass up. And you know theircreative foundation. They're a creative first firm
(08:39):
originally and they work in incredibly importantissues addiction, overdose, HIV, immunization,
cancer prevention. I could go onand audiences. They've actually been working
with underrepresented communities, reaching those oftenunderlooked underserved since they were founded and given
(09:00):
all that. Like, initially Ithought, hey, bringing Burnet Garcia and
with us it advance, It wouldadvance us towards every major tenet of our
of our vision. But what Irealized actually pretty quickly post close, is
that we weren't just accelerating towards thevision we had before. We could see
a more ambitious vision together, whichis it's pretty special. That sounds very
(09:24):
special. I appreciate you sharing thatwith us and Ben once again, for
our future leaders and even current leadersthat listen to this series, you as
a leader and focusing more in activitiesthat make your company a source for good
or does one have to make youprofitable too, because you know, I
always wondering a lot of people doare they mutually exclusive? So what is
(09:46):
your standpoint on that? How doyou feel about it? So one thing
about our firm to know is thatwe're a certified PEA corporation, So that
means we're committed to using our businessas a force for good and we operate
the comedy transparently, which you talkedto seal right, and with the commitment
to all of our stakeholders, notjust shareholders, So that means community,
our employees, clients and the planet. And so that all goes back to
(10:09):
mission. Right. Our commitment tolasting change isn't just constrained to the work
we do. It's the lens throughwhich we view every decision we make as
an organization. Right. So whenyou ask about profitability, that's actually a
very important question because what if you'reun accustomed to, is is that short
term thinking in this country? Right, it's shareholder privacy like insatiable demand for
(10:31):
profits today this quarter and the bCourt movement and stakeholder capitalism that demands a
different perspective, a much more longterm perspective, but act for the long
term. It does require a levelof profitability. We talked about that for
as marsh as balance business health,right, and that means growing sustainably and
(10:56):
profitably, and that means being investedin our mission. And those statements to
me are a really big deal,right, because resources are finite, and
so we have a responsibility to makesure we're investing them in the right places
for a long time, long term, which can be tough, actually really
tough, because I mean there's placesyou're not investing, right. But I
(11:18):
wouldn't be doing my job if Ididn't make the decisions when they're even when
they're really really difficult. Ultimately forus to be a force for good and
I'll deliver on our mission at anyscale that makes a difference. We have
to have resources, we have tobe generating profit. I feels agreed,
Ben. I don't want to assumethat there's any other company around that does
(11:39):
exactly what you and your team do. But when you're working with your clients,
if there is somebody that is similarto what you do, how do
you differentiate yourself and selling yourself toyour client. That's a good question.
I actually don't see. I don'tsee too many companies to show up the
way we do. I don't thinkanyone shows up the way we do.
Frankly, talk about that vision thatthat we have in combination with our firm,
(12:03):
the fourth Martia Bernancos here today isone company. We talk about this
concept of right to win. Youknow, the clients that we take on,
they're folks that are driven to buildhealthy, sustainable, inclusive communities.
And our view is, you know, when it comes to the the battles
that they fight in doing that,right for information, for support, for
(12:24):
answers for access. Uh, youknow, our clients have a right to
win, and someone struggling to rebuildafter flood as an example of right,
what should catch their attention? Shouldit be like another ad for a sugary
beverage, you know, or itshould it be, uh, you know,
a nudge to access to government resourcethat's available specifically to support them in
(12:46):
that time and need that they don'tknow exists. Right, they have a
right to win, and so we'rehere to exercise that right for them.
And to do that, they can'tbe invisible. They have to you know,
we we believe they need to relyon its to have to be creative,
They need to lean on technology whenevery chance they get, and that's
how you move people to action,and that's specifically what we're built to deliver.
(13:11):
Well, it's a great explanation andwe don't get a chance to talk
about as much on this series.But to your point, I think you're
talking about two different things. Educationbut also knowledge is power, right,
absolutely absolutely, And you know,there's a lot of competition to get people's
attention and there's a lot there's alot of distractions out there, and to
(13:35):
reach people where they are with messagesthat they can rely on and retain is
our challenge. You and I arean agreement on that. Okay, So
I did want to talk to youabout a few other things, and we're
going to talk about maybe good stories. Now. I know you've been at
the company a long time, andI imagine there's a handful of great stories
and some you can and cannot sharebecause I know some of the stuff that
(13:56):
you do is super secret. Butthe other stuff for public knowledge, we'd
love to hear about. So asfar as it may be a story,
you know, you talked about gettingup this is why we do this every
day. Is there something you canshare with us that was pretty special,
either to you and or your staffthat you said, you know what,
we knocked it out of the parkthat day, that we really we really
did well for that client. Oh, that's an interesting question. I think
(14:18):
about our company overall, and Ithink about the work we're doing across markets,
and I could talk about a givenproject, but I'll tell you what
I think if you if you wantto say, what's a success story,
We're not to the park. Ithink the company if you take fifteen years
ago, twenty people and one client, and now like we led in combination
(14:39):
with Health and Human Services that wecan do this campaign. It's the largest,
most most significant public health campaign ofour lifetime, campaign which we know
saved over fifty thousand lives and billionsTowards the economy, we're the research partner
with the DoD, an definitive sourceon military personnel and families on issues ranging
(15:01):
from the propensie to serve in themilitary, sexual assault, sexual harassment in
the military, suicide production of themilitary. We're the pre eminent at this
point research firm on voting behavior andelection administration in the federal government space are
none or the agency of record foramer Corps, which gives us a chance
with them to reframe the national conversationaround perspectives about service and volunteering. But
(15:28):
we literally shaping. We were literallyshaping the national agenda as this country charge
a path towards being a recovery readyan agent. I could go on,
I could go on. I shouldn't, But you know, when the Ink
five thousand comes out in a fewmonths, we'll be on for our tenth
year. And you know, thereare no de corps in the world where
we compete. We are an industryin an industry of like entrenched massive research
(15:54):
firms, every big branded, flashyconsultancy, all the big hold income any
ad firms. And yet and yetwhen we get the chance, you know
what, he really shows up likewe do, and the capability, the
craftsmanship, the care, the commitment, all of that. And so to
me, it's it's like a momentto step back, and our staff should
(16:17):
be pretty dang proud about how farwe've come. I'm excited about what's in
it. Well, I really appreciatethat you shared that type of answer,
And I'll give you an example.In my industry, news cycles move very
quickly when it comes to sports andradio and television and all the content.
And I've done some pretty special thingswith my teams over the years. But
because things are moving so quickly,especially in our world today, we don't
(16:40):
get a chance to really celebrate oursuccesses. And I'm sure you've experienced that
too as a leader over the years, because things are moving so quickly,
it's on to the next thing.But it sounds like, besides you being
just thrilled with the changes you madesaving lives, changing lives with your team,
that you haven't taken this for granted. And there as your team members,
and it sounds like it's it's hada real impact on you. You
(17:03):
know, we do get we're aforward looking company, so we're constantly looking
at like, hey, well canwe what should we be doing next?
Where can we improve? But boy, you got to take you got to
take a minute every once in awhile and step back and look at the
progress and the accomplishments and uh,yeah, the company has done a lot
by no means is it a bendthing. It's a force march thing.
(17:26):
That's very cool. Well, thanksfor sharing. I think it's a great
topic and we could talk for hoursjust about that alone. I did want
to put a pin in and workjust for a second and talk about philanthropic
and charity work. I know thatyou're super busy. I know your team
members are too, in the staff, but when you have an opportunity,
whether it's through fors Marsh or yourselfpersonally, when it comes to philanthropic and
charity work, what do you liketo be a part of. Yes,
(17:48):
So I'd say as a as acompany, we don't necessarily view philanthropy as
in the same way here discussed offand a lot of firms have like that.
Website tab for Corporate Social Responsibility andthey kind of list some of the
orders that they donate to, andfor us, it's intertwined into everything we
do. We have a division ofthe company called Serve that we fund that
(18:15):
exists solely to address issues where thereare gaps and in funding and attention.
You know, one issue we've beensteeped in for a lot of years is
substance use disorder and so we've workedon topic for a decade plus and the
more we've been in the space,the more we saw how the aspect of
(18:36):
a recovery was overlooked. Resources againand again go to prevention, go to
treatment, but without the support forrecovery, you just have relapse. So
in the past several years, we'vebeen investing in, you know, changing
that dynamic, and we've convened governmentand private sector leaders to set agenda.
(18:57):
We created a survey to fill aninformation gap on the dynamics of supporting recovery
in the workplace because ultimately, youknow, most people get their coverage for
benefits from their workplace and that's sothere's such an important role they can play
in supporting their employees at in thosemoments. So that's kind of how we
(19:22):
that's our view. I guess howwe can continue to have an issue using
our own funds. We do dosome financial contributions when there it's like a
local need or a kind of anemergency need, but we're trying to get
as often as possible at systemic issuesso that there are fewer symptomatic things for
people to address. Well, itmakes sense, and thanks for sharing all
(19:42):
that. As we wrap up ourconversation, Ben, I want to give
the floor to you. We've talkedabout so many cool things, but I
know we've kind of just hit thetip of the iceberg when it comes to
Forrest Marsh. But if we andour listeners could just have a couple of
takeaways from you on the company andyour thoughts and kind of capsulating everything,
take it away, well, Ithink everything that we do requires collective action,
(20:06):
and so for Fores Marsh, sometimeswe're in a leadership role. Sometimes
we're listening or sharing or amplifying,we're partnering. So for folks listening,
I guess, if anything catches yourinterest about the company and the issues we're
working on, and you see anopportunity for collective action, partner with us.
(20:26):
Every good collaboration we've had started withthe conversation, so I encourage you
to reach out and whether you're interestedin b Corps, whether you're interesting recovery,
and I can give the website forsmarshdot com. Yeah, check us
out good. And then are youhiring it all? You're looking for the
best and the best out there.We are hiring. We have a handful
of kind of specific roles up now, but that's always changing throughout the year,
(20:49):
so you know, depending on whereyou're at. Yeah, it's it's
never quite the same, but we'redefinitely hiring maybe fifteen twenty spots right now.
Well, Ben, I can't tellyou how much ippreciate your valuable time.
I know how busy you are,and one of the thrills of this
series and talking to people like youand companies that you run, is that
while I'm not privy to everything,I know that lives are being changed.
(21:11):
I know they're being saved as Isleep at night, and I know that's
a great burden for you and yourteam to do. But also I can
tell as a leader your passion forwhat you do and as you mentioned off
the top of our conversations, whyyou get up every day and you lead
this company. So that's one ofthe things that's a common thread and all
of our leaders out there is thepassion for what they do. So I'm
(21:32):
very appreciative of that you chatting withus for twenty minutes, and thank you
so much for joining us on CEOs. You should know, thanks a lot,
Tennis, I really appreciate it.Our community partner, M and T
Bank supports CEOs, you should know, is part of their ongoing commitment to
building strong communities, and that startsby backing the businesses within them. As
a bank for communities, M andT believes in dedicating time, talent,
(21:52):
and resources to help local businesses thrivebecause when businesses succeed our community, you succeed
M and T Bank presents CEOs youshould know powered by iHeart Media. Let's
be Ben Garthway. He is theCEO for Forst. Marsh Certified b Corp.
That conducts and implements research to solvecomplex challenges for public and private sector
clients. Before we talk more aboutBen's company, I first asked him to
talk a little bit about himself,where he's from, and his origin story.
(00:23):
I was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, grew up in that area,
stayed nearby Ish. I went tothe University of Wisconsin Madison, studied finance
and investment in banking, which Ilearned a time, but it wasn't necessarily
something I was super passionate about,but yeah, and then moved to DC
(00:44):
area where there was a much biggerjob market and because I was interested in
passionate about government, right I gotgrowing up. My dad worked for the
Foreigner of VENTERMS Affairs an entire career, and my mom worked for the local
government and post school system, sopiqued interest early. So a lot of
our listeners know that I'm a bigsports fan. Does that mean you're a
(01:06):
Packers fan being from the Milwaukee areafor sure? And they are on the
rise, my friend, Yes,they are. You've also had some really
good years too, my friend.Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we
have a moment downturn, but we'reback on the upswing. And I've actually
been to a game there and thewhole city shuts down. It's fanatical.
(01:26):
And I always tell everybody if youhave a sports bucket list, go see
a Packers game. That is justa magical experience. Probably best not to
do it in like December January,but any of the other months here living
good, call well, listen.I also want to talk to you about
This is for context for listeners,because of course we're here to talk to
you about Forest Marsh, your companyand all that you do. And you've
(01:49):
been with them for you know,it's it's not almost two decades, it's
fourteen and a half years, butthat is a long time to be at
any place. But as you werecoming out of school, what did you
want to do? Yeah, soI had that real interest in government,
and I landed a job out herein the technology industry, primarily supporting military
personnel and families, and I didthat for about just over ten years,
(02:14):
and then yeah, in two thousandand nine, took a chance joining a
twenty person company Forest Marsh And atthe time, you know, the company
was small by measures of like employeesand revenue, but it was already really
big if you think about priorities andheart and value, and so give me
(02:36):
a real chance to be a placewhere I could help shape the future,
not just be along for the ride. And yeah, here I am today,
fourteen plus years later. And forsome more context, the company was
founded in two thousand and two.And I'm curious for our listeners too,
because you've had a really cool ascensionin this company, and that doesn't happen
to everybody. And some people don'tlike to stay at a company and grow
(02:59):
and maybe think they're going to beCEO run the company. Everybody's a little
bit different. But as you joinedthe company, you obviously felt heard and
thought that something could be very special. Can you share with us your personal
experience about what you thought might happenat joining a pretty young company. What
was clear to me on day onewas the values. And I was at
(03:20):
a company, a publicly traded,large company, and we were working on
issues that I cared about. Butthe prioritization at all times was about how
do we make our numbers, howdo we hit that quarter of the earnings
number? And the minute I showedup at Forst. Marsh it was obvious
through every action and that everything wasabout how do we best serve this client
(03:46):
in this issue, How do wedeliver better? How do we think through
the effect of our actions downstream?How do we make sure we delivered outcomes
at last? And that is thatmotivates me to get up in the morning,
not to make sure I make anumber for somebody. Well, that
makes a lot of sense, andI can already sense your passion and as
we talk in this series, there'sa lot of leaders out there that have
(04:08):
passion for what they do, notonly their staff, but what they're exactly
doing that as you mentioned, theyget up every day. So we're going
to talk about what you do,and we're going to get into the weeds
on a few things when it comesto the company. But I did want
to talk about mission statement for ourlisteners and then we'll talk about exactly what
you do. But what is themission statement of the company. We exist
to drive lasting social change and thatis as big as all outdoors. So
(04:33):
on narrow it down, we arespecifically focused on promoting a healthier America for
all, building resilient, sustainable communities, and developing stronger institutions. And by
stronger I mean effective, accountable,and inclusive. You did me a favor
there, and I appreciate when CEOsand leaders do this, and I know
(04:54):
that you meant to do it,Ben, is that you give context to
your mission statement. Because every body'sgot a mission statement out there, some
are a little glitzier more than others. But you gave context to exactly why
that is. And thank you fordoing that, because I think that's a
good listen. That's a really goodlesson for all our future leaders out there
that context does matters. And alsoI noticed when I was on the website
(05:15):
and studying about you and the companyand all the cool things that you do
that we're going to talk in amoment, there's a lot of transparency.
And I know it talks about valuesand there's a lot of transparency. Not
everybody does that in this industry.So we'll get that to in a minute,
but I want to mention that Inoticed that just popping on there and
seeing all the incredible things you do. Okay, let's do this. If
you were to give a thirty thousandfoot view to our listeners that maybe don't
(05:39):
know about the company. What wouldyou tell them that you exactly do?
We frame our approach in kind ofthree phases. We listen, we create,
and we adapt. So listening isabout the evidence. We're a research
first company, so research isn't allthat we do, but it's foundational to
how we approach every challenge. Right, So that mean to bring in voice
to the table, hearing from thosewith lived experience on issue and nothing can
(06:02):
be done without this step. Thatguide's everything we do from there. And
the second thing we do is wecreate and this is about moving people that
action and that creation. That cantake a lot of forms as well.
It could be policy change, couldbe a process, could be a training,
could be technology, could be acommunication or a campaign. But the
term create here is actually very important. None of the issues that we're taking
(06:24):
on, I mean you heard themission right, none of these are moved
by the status quo. We haveto bring our best thinking in creativity on
no matter what. And then thelast one is adapt and this is about
learning. Right. We got togo back to the Evans. We got
to say what worked, what didn'twork. How can we improve? We
have to always be learning, andso the majority of our work is actually
with the federal government, but wehave a growing footprint with states, with
(06:47):
nonprofits and commercial forms as well.So, Ben, I'm curious when it
comes to evolution. Obviously, companieschange, they get sustainable, and then
they grow. You've been there fora long time. We mentioned fourteen and
a half years from what you startedto where you are now and almost the
last four and a half years ofCEO. How has the company evolved for
you and your team? So thevalues have stayed largely the same. But
(07:09):
what we found we started really asa research we're a research first company throughout,
but we were doing exclusively research earlyon, and what ended up happening
is it wasn't It wasn't it didn'tget all the way to the outcome.
So it required us to continue toexpand the services that we provided to make
(07:30):
sure that we're actually affecting change.I mean, one of our values is
about doing work that has an impact. It has to matter, and so
we're not doing research so that areport can go on a shelf somewhere.
We're doing research so that, uh, you know, more people think about
military as a career option, sothat more people that are at risk get
a cancer screen. We're doing thingswith an outcome in mind, and so
(07:56):
you can't just stop at research becausethere has to be an action that follows.
That makes a lot of sense.And I'm glad you mentioned impact because
social impact and I'm just going tomake an assumption in your industry is they're
a very big deal up there,and perception sometimes can be reality. With
all that said, you made anacquisition when it came to a social impact
marketing team. Can you tell usabout the acquisition and why you made that.
(08:18):
Yes, yes we did. Weacquired Brunette Garcia. That's a firm
we've partnered with and frankly admired fora lot of years and when we thought
about the potential of what we coulddo together, it was too compelling to
pass up. And you know theircreative foundation. They're a creative first firm
(08:39):
originally and they work in incredibly importantissues addiction, overdose, HIV, immunization,
cancer prevention. I could go onand audiences. They've actually been working
with underrepresented communities, reaching those oftenunderlooked underserved since they were founded and given
(09:00):
all that. Like, initially Ithought, hey, bringing Burnet Garcia and
with us it advance, It wouldadvance us towards every major tenet of our
of our vision. But what Irealized actually pretty quickly post close, is
that we weren't just accelerating towards thevision we had before. We could see
a more ambitious vision together, whichis it's pretty special. That sounds very
(09:24):
special. I appreciate you sharing thatwith us and Ben once again, for
our future leaders and even current leadersthat listen to this series, you as
a leader and focusing more in activitiesthat make your company a source for good
or does one have to make youprofitable too, because you know, I
always wondering a lot of people doare they mutually exclusive? So what is
(09:46):
your standpoint on that? How doyou feel about it? So one thing
about our firm to know is thatwe're a certified PEA corporation, So that
means we're committed to using our businessas a force for good and we operate
the comedy transparently, which you talkedto seal right, and with the commitment
to all of our stakeholders, notjust shareholders, So that means community,
our employees, clients and the planet. And so that all goes back to
(10:09):
mission. Right. Our commitment tolasting change isn't just constrained to the work
we do. It's the lens throughwhich we view every decision we make as
an organization. Right. So whenyou ask about profitability, that's actually a
very important question because what if you'reun accustomed to, is is that short
term thinking in this country? Right, it's shareholder privacy like insatiable demand for
(10:31):
profits today this quarter and the bCourt movement and stakeholder capitalism that demands a
different perspective, a much more longterm perspective, but act for the long
term. It does require a levelof profitability. We talked about that for
as marsh as balance business health,right, and that means growing sustainably and
(10:56):
profitably, and that means being investedin our mission. And those statements to
me are a really big deal,right, because resources are finite, and
so we have a responsibility to makesure we're investing them in the right places
for a long time, long term, which can be tough, actually really
tough, because I mean there's placesyou're not investing, right. But I
(11:18):
wouldn't be doing my job if Ididn't make the decisions when they're even when
they're really really difficult. Ultimately forus to be a force for good and
I'll deliver on our mission at anyscale that makes a difference. We have
to have resources, we have tobe generating profit. I feels agreed,
Ben. I don't want to assumethat there's any other company around that does
(11:39):
exactly what you and your team do. But when you're working with your clients,
if there is somebody that is similarto what you do, how do
you differentiate yourself and selling yourself toyour client. That's a good question.
I actually don't see. I don'tsee too many companies to show up the
way we do. I don't thinkanyone shows up the way we do.
Frankly, talk about that vision thatthat we have in combination with our firm,
(12:03):
the fourth Martia Bernancos here today isone company. We talk about this
concept of right to win. Youknow, the clients that we take on,
they're folks that are driven to buildhealthy, sustainable, inclusive communities.
And our view is, you know, when it comes to the the battles
that they fight in doing that,right for information, for support, for
(12:24):
answers for access. Uh, youknow, our clients have a right to
win, and someone struggling to rebuildafter flood as an example of right,
what should catch their attention? Shouldit be like another ad for a sugary
beverage, you know, or itshould it be, uh, you know,
a nudge to access to government resourcethat's available specifically to support them in
(12:46):
that time and need that they don'tknow exists. Right, they have a
right to win, and so we'rehere to exercise that right for them.
And to do that, they can'tbe invisible. They have to you know,
we we believe they need to relyon its to have to be creative,
They need to lean on technology whenevery chance they get, and that's
how you move people to action,and that's specifically what we're built to deliver.
(13:11):
Well, it's a great explanation andwe don't get a chance to talk
about as much on this series.But to your point, I think you're
talking about two different things. Educationbut also knowledge is power, right,
absolutely absolutely, And you know,there's a lot of competition to get people's
attention and there's a lot there's alot of distractions out there, and to
(13:35):
reach people where they are with messagesthat they can rely on and retain is
our challenge. You and I arean agreement on that. Okay, So
I did want to talk to youabout a few other things, and we're
going to talk about maybe good stories. Now. I know you've been at
the company a long time, andI imagine there's a handful of great stories
and some you can and cannot sharebecause I know some of the stuff that
(13:56):
you do is super secret. Butthe other stuff for public knowledge, we'd
love to hear about. So asfar as it may be a story,
you know, you talked about gettingup this is why we do this every
day. Is there something you canshare with us that was pretty special,
either to you and or your staffthat you said, you know what,
we knocked it out of the parkthat day, that we really we really
did well for that client. Oh, that's an interesting question. I think
(14:18):
about our company overall, and Ithink about the work we're doing across markets,
and I could talk about a givenproject, but I'll tell you what
I think if you if you wantto say, what's a success story,
We're not to the park. Ithink the company if you take fifteen years
ago, twenty people and one client, and now like we led in combination
(14:39):
with Health and Human Services that wecan do this campaign. It's the largest,
most most significant public health campaign ofour lifetime, campaign which we know
saved over fifty thousand lives and billionsTowards the economy, we're the research partner
with the DoD, an definitive sourceon military personnel and families on issues ranging
(15:01):
from the propensie to serve in themilitary, sexual assault, sexual harassment in
the military, suicide production of themilitary. We're the pre eminent at this
point research firm on voting behavior andelection administration in the federal government space are
none or the agency of record foramer Corps, which gives us a chance
with them to reframe the national conversationaround perspectives about service and volunteering. But
(15:28):
we literally shaping. We were literallyshaping the national agenda as this country charge
a path towards being a recovery readyan agent. I could go on,
I could go on. I shouldn't, But you know, when the Ink
five thousand comes out in a fewmonths, we'll be on for our tenth
year. And you know, thereare no de corps in the world where
we compete. We are an industryin an industry of like entrenched massive research
(15:54):
firms, every big branded, flashyconsultancy, all the big hold income any
ad firms. And yet and yetwhen we get the chance, you know
what, he really shows up likewe do, and the capability, the
craftsmanship, the care, the commitment, all of that. And so to
me, it's it's like a momentto step back, and our staff should
(16:17):
be pretty dang proud about how farwe've come. I'm excited about what's in
it. Well, I really appreciatethat you shared that type of answer,
And I'll give you an example.In my industry, news cycles move very
quickly when it comes to sports andradio and television and all the content.
And I've done some pretty special thingswith my teams over the years. But
because things are moving so quickly,especially in our world today, we don't
(16:40):
get a chance to really celebrate oursuccesses. And I'm sure you've experienced that
too as a leader over the years, because things are moving so quickly,
it's on to the next thing.But it sounds like, besides you being
just thrilled with the changes you madesaving lives, changing lives with your team,
that you haven't taken this for granted. And there as your team members,
and it sounds like it's it's hada real impact on you. You
(17:03):
know, we do get we're aforward looking company, so we're constantly looking
at like, hey, well canwe what should we be doing next?
Where can we improve? But boy, you got to take you got to
take a minute every once in awhile and step back and look at the
progress and the accomplishments and uh,yeah, the company has done a lot
by no means is it a bendthing. It's a force march thing.
(17:26):
That's very cool. Well, thanksfor sharing. I think it's a great
topic and we could talk for hoursjust about that alone. I did want
to put a pin in and workjust for a second and talk about philanthropic
and charity work. I know thatyou're super busy. I know your team
members are too, in the staff, but when you have an opportunity,
whether it's through fors Marsh or yourselfpersonally, when it comes to philanthropic and
charity work, what do you liketo be a part of. Yes,
(17:48):
So I'd say as a as acompany, we don't necessarily view philanthropy as
in the same way here discussed offand a lot of firms have like that.
Website tab for Corporate Social Responsibility andthey kind of list some of the
orders that they donate to, andfor us, it's intertwined into everything we
do. We have a division ofthe company called Serve that we fund that
(18:15):
exists solely to address issues where thereare gaps and in funding and attention.
You know, one issue we've beensteeped in for a lot of years is
substance use disorder and so we've workedon topic for a decade plus and the
more we've been in the space,the more we saw how the aspect of
(18:36):
a recovery was overlooked. Resources againand again go to prevention, go to
treatment, but without the support forrecovery, you just have relapse. So
in the past several years, we'vebeen investing in, you know, changing
that dynamic, and we've convened governmentand private sector leaders to set agenda.
(18:57):
We created a survey to fill aninformation gap on the dynamics of supporting recovery
in the workplace because ultimately, youknow, most people get their coverage for
benefits from their workplace and that's sothere's such an important role they can play
in supporting their employees at in thosemoments. So that's kind of how we
(19:22):
that's our view. I guess howwe can continue to have an issue using
our own funds. We do dosome financial contributions when there it's like a
local need or a kind of anemergency need, but we're trying to get
as often as possible at systemic issuesso that there are fewer symptomatic things for
people to address. Well, itmakes sense, and thanks for sharing all
(19:42):
that. As we wrap up ourconversation, Ben, I want to give
the floor to you. We've talkedabout so many cool things, but I
know we've kind of just hit thetip of the iceberg when it comes to
Forrest Marsh. But if we andour listeners could just have a couple of
takeaways from you on the company andyour thoughts and kind of capsulating everything,
take it away, well, Ithink everything that we do requires collective action,
(20:06):
and so for Fores Marsh, sometimeswe're in a leadership role. Sometimes
we're listening or sharing or amplifying,we're partnering. So for folks listening,
I guess, if anything catches yourinterest about the company and the issues we're
working on, and you see anopportunity for collective action, partner with us.
(20:26):
Every good collaboration we've had started withthe conversation, so I encourage you
to reach out and whether you're interestedin b Corps, whether you're interesting recovery,
and I can give the website forsmarshdot com. Yeah, check us
out good. And then are youhiring it all? You're looking for the
best and the best out there.We are hiring. We have a handful
of kind of specific roles up now, but that's always changing throughout the year,
(20:49):
so you know, depending on whereyou're at. Yeah, it's it's
never quite the same, but we'redefinitely hiring maybe fifteen twenty spots right now.
Well, Ben, I can't tellyou how much ippreciate your valuable time.
I know how busy you are,and one of the thrills of this
series and talking to people like youand companies that you run, is that
while I'm not privy to everything,I know that lives are being changed.
(21:11):
I know they're being saved as Isleep at night, and I know that's
a great burden for you and yourteam to do. But also I can
tell as a leader your passion forwhat you do and as you mentioned off
the top of our conversations, whyyou get up every day and you lead
this company. So that's one ofthe things that's a common thread and all
of our leaders out there is thepassion for what they do. So I'm
(21:32):
very appreciative of that you chatting withus for twenty minutes, and thank you
so much for joining us on CEOs. You should know, thanks a lot,
Tennis, I really appreciate it.Our community partner, M and T
Bank supports CEOs, you should know, is part of their ongoing commitment to
building strong communities, and that startsby backing the businesses within them. As
a bank for communities, M andT believes in dedicating time, talent,
(21:52):
and resources to help local businesses thrivebecause when businesses succeed our community, you succeed
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