September 19, 2024 • 14 mins
Our resident historian, Dr. Ed Moore, dug his way out of the many rabbit holes he goes down to discuss Florida and it's remarkable growth from territory to present and some of the elections oddities along the way.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, it's time for more history. Doctor edmore joins
(00:03):
us Helo. Are you I'm pretty good?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Yeah? Yeah, all things considered, I'm here green, sign up.
It's like the old joke. Other than that, how is
the play, missus Lincoln?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yeah, we were talking about elections in history. We talked
about some of the interesting little nuances, and you only
got through one paragraph of one page of your seventeen pages,
and then.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I just scarded all of those yeah, in my back
in research some more, you know.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And of course we'll disregard that and come back next month.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
That's right, because once I go off on a tangent
that I can't help myself. You know, we were talking.
We started out this series talking really about the growth
of America, expansion adding states, and then kind of hit
a speed bump with a couple of other issues and
talking about elections.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
But election his spirit dog is any any pointer that
just goes that one squirrel?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
That's what happens to me when I get online. Yep,
be a little highlighted thing. Well, most people just read
right past that.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Not me, not you.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I click on it, and then I'm click on the
next one. And the next one.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So what dog trails are redown? Today, we're talking start out, We're.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Talking about Florida, just how Florida has grown. So we're
going back to the original you we're talking a little
bit about how Florida becoming a state in eighteen forty
five and all that, but just growth in this state.
So many people are new here, they don't understand how
Florida has grown. I mean, I've been you know, I've
lived out of state for a couple of decades, but
(01:34):
spent all my childhood down here and most of my
senior adult life. I've been back twenty five years, and
this state has changed dramatically, and yet it's still one
of the least government intrusive government expenditure states, even as
big as it is, which is really quite remarkable. You
can only go back if you only go back to
(01:56):
twenty ten. Okay, with just twelve fourteen years ago, but
on a they lag about two years when they start
doing population estimate. So over those twelve years, orange County.
Now if you drive through Orange County, you understand this.
But Orange County has had the largest growth in those
twelve years, over three hundred thousand more people moved just
(02:18):
into that county. Our neighboring county, Gasden County, lost the
most people. They lost forty four hundred people roughly in
those twelve years. People moving elsewhere. There's changes all around.
But we tend to think of all growth. But you're
in a county like Gasden, if you lose four thousand people,
(02:38):
that's a big chunk of your small population. What does
that due to the local economy. So it's Florida's a
kind of a microcosm of the rest of the country,
several different types of states, if you will. If you've
gathered up the various counties together, it's very different. A
lot of changes. Grew from eighteen point eight million people
(03:02):
in twenty ten, okay, okay, it grew eighteen point eight
million more people in those twelve years. That's a lot
of people.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
That's a lot of people. That's roughly a million and
a half a year.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
That's bigger than more than half the states. Okay, that's
just our growth we got. Right now, we're probably over
twenty three million people. But in twenty two when they
did the population, it was twenty two point two million people.
Huge growth, eighteen percent growth during that time. Frame, the
United States grew seven point seven percent. I guess if
(03:37):
you could count all the legals, it'd probably be even
more so.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But oh, we probably are counting them. But never mind.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Florida has changed during that time as well. In twenty ten,
we were fifty eight percent white and twenty two we're
only fifty two percent white. What grew Hispanic population. Black
populations in Florida didn't change at all as a percentage
of the total pope during that timeframe. Even though there's growth,
it's a percentage of what your share is. Florida has
(04:06):
been a big part of the US history a long time.
We'll talk about the eighteen seventy six election. We've talked
about that before, and the role of Florida played eighteen
forty five when Florida became a state. It's we're players.
We're bigger players now than we've ever been on the
national stage. In those changes too as well, the changes
of who lives here changes sixty five and over as
(04:29):
a segment of our population. There's a back in the seventies,
everybody thought this was retirement heaven, and that's while we
came here. Well, we're kind of back to that again.
In those same twelve years, we went from seventeen percent
to over twenty one percent of the population being over
sixty five, and every other age demographic age group shrunk
(04:50):
as a percentage of the population. They all grew, but
they shrunk, and the school age population under nineteen went
from almost twenty four percent on to twenty one percent.
Now you think about the implications for public policy and
what the legislature does and how they spend their money,
it lags a little bit because all that information doesn't
(05:11):
get captured. But where the state spends its money in
large part is driven by who lives here. And going forward,
we're going to probably see a lot of changes. We're
seeing changes in voter registration. The people that are moving
here Republicans an hour or the other day, a million
and thirty thousand.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yep, that and growing.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And Republicans were getting elected in the past even with
that happening. But that's because they are huge independent votes.
In the old blue dog, yellow dog, whatever on, a
kind of dog used to vote conservative as well. I
started working in this process first in nineteen seventy two,
Democrats dominated the back row of the legislature in the
(05:55):
House was Republicans. There were thirty thirty four of them
out of one hundred and twenty. Now it's the opposite,
and people go, oh, that's because of apportionment and all
of that reapportionment nonsense. It's population driven. You know, you
can draw maps anyway which who you want, You're still
going to come up with numbers like that.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
It's also good policy. That's bear fruit.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yeah, the US changes. Texas has had the largest growth
in our country. And we'll talk probably the next time
or a time after on that expansion out west, but
four point eight million new people in Texas during that
time frame. Illinois, surprise, had the biggest decline in population.
(06:38):
They've lost about a quarter of a million people. And
that's continuing. The people that are coming here, and I
don't think it's going to change.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
They're still voting, mind you folks, but never mind, Well
they're voting, but they're still on Illinois.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Well that's plus the plus the
dead people. Yeah, they have a they have the pull
center out in the cemeteries. Biggest county growth in the
whole country's you're familiar with Arizona. Americopa County added seven
(07:13):
hundred and twenty six thousand people one no county in
that same time, in one little county, La County, La County,
biggest drop in number of people. And so when you
look at the real numbers and you think, well, I'm.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Not surprised at that.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
You know, that's what's going on out there. Big growth
has happened in Florida in spurts. If you go back,
I'm looking at my notes here eighteen forty to eighteen
forty five. Florida became a state in eighteen forty five,
but the eighteen forty census, when they ran the census
as a territory, there were an eighteen forty fifty four
(07:49):
fifty five thousand people in Florida in the entire state.
Half of them were slaves. Okay, I mean, so you're
talking about twenty six, twenty seven foul and free landholders.
By eighteen forty five, the number was up to eighty
seven thousand people. So what's that thirty three thousand growth
(08:11):
as a percentage, A huge bump, but still only eighty
seven thousand people. I mean, Leon County has you know,
three hundred thousand people. That's not real huge. Thirty nine
thousand of those eighty seven thousand. Though in eighteen forty
five when we became a state, we're slaves and there
were one thousand free holders or free slaves. I'm sorry,
(08:33):
So Florida talking about change, I mean, find someplace else
that change that dramatically. Except for when we talk in
a couple of months about going west, were really no
population to boom. We've got people. How do you deal
with that? Those are the real, huge public policy issues
that government faces, even when it's inadequate, you know, talk
(08:57):
about change. I mean, I'm always fascinated by Florida and
how much it's changed. Of If you go back to
eighteen forty six, Florida had three we're just talking off air,
three electoral votes. We have thirty now, I mean I
have ten times the amount and probably should have more.
The next census, we definitely will get one or two
more congressional seats. Florida has played a pivotal role if
(09:19):
you go back to the Hayes Rutherford Hayes, who became
president as a Republican in eighteen seventy six election, ran
against a guy named Sam Tilden. Tilden was winning one
hundred and eighty four to one hundred and sixty five.
Most people don't understand the electoral college. It's kind of complex.
(09:40):
Legislatures used to drive that whatever the popular vote was
in the state really didn't matter as much. They would
tend to go with it. We experienced some of that
here in Florida and the conversation in two thousand that
the legislature could have gone, oh, we're going over this direction.
They could do what they want. That's very clear in
the constitution. Tilden was winning. He had one hundred and
(10:03):
sixty five votes, twenty electoral college votes. One was from
Oregon that could have gone either way. It didn't really matter.
But Florida, South Carolina, and Louisiana, three deep South Southern states.
At the time I think of this is eighteen seventy six,
post Civil War, reconstruction's going on.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Begrudgingly, well, what do.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
The Southern states want? They wanted over They want all
those Feds to get out of their communities and go
back to Washington, leave them alone. Three states got together
and decided, brother, for days, you're gonna use the Republican
it was at the time they were pushing reconstruction. We
will end reconstruction. Bingo Hayes gets twenty votes, so he
(10:50):
goes from losing to winning. He needed one hundred and
eighty five votes to He ended up winning one hundred
and eighty five to one hundred and eighty four, and
reconstruy ptruction ended. Didn't have really much to do with
the election, just had to do with the big topical
issues at the time. So when people start complaining about
what's going on, yeah, we've always we've had fascinating we've
(11:11):
had worse. Yeah, in terms of manipulation and public policy
changes because of politics. That's one of my little tangents
that went. I I started reading all about that. Yeah,
how fascinating that was. I told you off error as well.
I looked and looked and looked, and all I could find. Apparently,
in the eighteen sixty election, which was the first time
(11:33):
Republicans won, Abraham Lincoln was their candidate, and there were
four different candidates. The country was really chopped up. Apparently
Abraham Lincoln didn't get any votes out of Florida.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
That is a dubious distinction.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Well, and you go back and you looked at eighteen
thirty nine, we had the Constitutional Convention in Port Saint Joe,
we were just talking about the little town. They in
eighteen forties they had to have a state constitution in
order to be approved for statehood. There were people in
Florida at the time. They barely approved the constitution. It
barely won in the election when they put it up
(12:14):
for a vote, mainly because there were people here that
thought and they thinking, this is this pre Civil War
slave states versus non slaves and trying to make all
these compromises. They thought, you know, if we wait a
little while, Florida could be two states. And so there
(12:34):
were people that were pro state, but they wanted us
to be two states East Florida, West Florida, or wherever
you divided it, so that the southern states would still
have more influence in the US Senate. And what happened,
Iowa decided they wanted to become a state. They started
moving real quick. They caught these people shorthanded down here,
(12:55):
and they kind of went, oh, well, we better go
ahead and just be one state and go in to
compromise because Ira would have been a free state, Florida
was a slave state. And that's where the balance came from.
All kind of weird stuff this morning, I understand you'll
give me that look.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I guess I just sometimes wonder how we've made it
this far.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
We kind of bumble and stumble along, and we don't
choose well. I often use that phrase, we choose poorly
at all kinds of levels. You listen to you and
Steve this morning, and locally nationally state whoever, we don't
often choose well, and we'd have to do a better
job of that.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
But when we have.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Failing, largely failing educational systems, particularly in the urban cities, yeah,
it's not much hope.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, thanks for the time, Good to be here as always.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Next month, more more tidbits yep, I can't wait, doctor
edmore whether it's twenty seven past the hour
Speaker 3 (14:00):
S
All right, it's time for more history. Doctor edmore joins
(00:03):
us Helo. Are you I'm pretty good?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Yeah? Yeah, all things considered, I'm here green, sign up.
It's like the old joke. Other than that, how is
the play, missus Lincoln?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yeah, we were talking about elections in history. We talked
about some of the interesting little nuances, and you only
got through one paragraph of one page of your seventeen pages,
and then.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I just scarded all of those yeah, in my back
in research some more, you know.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And of course we'll disregard that and come back next month.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
That's right, because once I go off on a tangent
that I can't help myself. You know, we were talking.
We started out this series talking really about the growth
of America, expansion adding states, and then kind of hit
a speed bump with a couple of other issues and
talking about elections.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
But election his spirit dog is any any pointer that
just goes that one squirrel?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
That's what happens to me when I get online. Yep,
be a little highlighted thing. Well, most people just read
right past that.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Not me, not you.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I click on it, and then I'm click on the
next one. And the next one.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So what dog trails are redown? Today, we're talking start out, We're.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Talking about Florida, just how Florida has grown. So we're
going back to the original you we're talking a little
bit about how Florida becoming a state in eighteen forty
five and all that, but just growth in this state.
So many people are new here, they don't understand how
Florida has grown. I mean, I've been you know, I've
lived out of state for a couple of decades, but
(01:34):
spent all my childhood down here and most of my
senior adult life. I've been back twenty five years, and
this state has changed dramatically, and yet it's still one
of the least government intrusive government expenditure states, even as
big as it is, which is really quite remarkable. You
can only go back if you only go back to
(01:56):
twenty ten. Okay, with just twelve fourteen years ago, but
on a they lag about two years when they start
doing population estimate. So over those twelve years, orange County.
Now if you drive through Orange County, you understand this.
But Orange County has had the largest growth in those
twelve years, over three hundred thousand more people moved just
(02:18):
into that county. Our neighboring county, Gasden County, lost the
most people. They lost forty four hundred people roughly in
those twelve years. People moving elsewhere. There's changes all around.
But we tend to think of all growth. But you're
in a county like Gasden, if you lose four thousand people,
(02:38):
that's a big chunk of your small population. What does
that due to the local economy. So it's Florida's a
kind of a microcosm of the rest of the country,
several different types of states, if you will. If you've
gathered up the various counties together, it's very different. A
lot of changes. Grew from eighteen point eight million people
(03:02):
in twenty ten, okay, okay, it grew eighteen point eight
million more people in those twelve years. That's a lot
of people.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
That's a lot of people. That's roughly a million and
a half a year.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
That's bigger than more than half the states. Okay, that's
just our growth we got. Right now, we're probably over
twenty three million people. But in twenty two when they
did the population, it was twenty two point two million people.
Huge growth, eighteen percent growth during that time. Frame, the
United States grew seven point seven percent. I guess if
(03:37):
you could count all the legals, it'd probably be even
more so.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But oh, we probably are counting them. But never mind.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Florida has changed during that time as well. In twenty ten,
we were fifty eight percent white and twenty two we're
only fifty two percent white. What grew Hispanic population. Black
populations in Florida didn't change at all as a percentage
of the total pope during that timeframe. Even though there's growth,
it's a percentage of what your share is. Florida has
(04:06):
been a big part of the US history a long time.
We'll talk about the eighteen seventy six election. We've talked
about that before, and the role of Florida played eighteen
forty five when Florida became a state. It's we're players.
We're bigger players now than we've ever been on the
national stage. In those changes too as well, the changes
of who lives here changes sixty five and over as
(04:29):
a segment of our population. There's a back in the seventies,
everybody thought this was retirement heaven, and that's while we
came here. Well, we're kind of back to that again.
In those same twelve years, we went from seventeen percent
to over twenty one percent of the population being over
sixty five, and every other age demographic age group shrunk
(04:50):
as a percentage of the population. They all grew, but
they shrunk, and the school age population under nineteen went
from almost twenty four percent on to twenty one percent.
Now you think about the implications for public policy and
what the legislature does and how they spend their money,
it lags a little bit because all that information doesn't
(05:11):
get captured. But where the state spends its money in
large part is driven by who lives here. And going forward,
we're going to probably see a lot of changes. We're
seeing changes in voter registration. The people that are moving
here Republicans an hour or the other day, a million
and thirty thousand.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yep, that and growing.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And Republicans were getting elected in the past even with
that happening. But that's because they are huge independent votes.
In the old blue dog, yellow dog, whatever on, a
kind of dog used to vote conservative as well. I
started working in this process first in nineteen seventy two,
Democrats dominated the back row of the legislature in the
(05:55):
House was Republicans. There were thirty thirty four of them
out of one hundred and twenty. Now it's the opposite,
and people go, oh, that's because of apportionment and all
of that reapportionment nonsense. It's population driven. You know, you
can draw maps anyway which who you want, You're still
going to come up with numbers like that.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
It's also good policy. That's bear fruit.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yeah, the US changes. Texas has had the largest growth
in our country. And we'll talk probably the next time
or a time after on that expansion out west, but
four point eight million new people in Texas during that
time frame. Illinois, surprise, had the biggest decline in population.
(06:38):
They've lost about a quarter of a million people. And
that's continuing. The people that are coming here, and I
don't think it's going to change.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
They're still voting, mind you folks, but never mind, Well
they're voting, but they're still on Illinois.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Well that's plus the plus the
dead people. Yeah, they have a they have the pull
center out in the cemeteries. Biggest county growth in the
whole country's you're familiar with Arizona. Americopa County added seven
(07:13):
hundred and twenty six thousand people one no county in
that same time, in one little county, La County, La County,
biggest drop in number of people. And so when you
look at the real numbers and you think, well, I'm.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Not surprised at that.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
You know, that's what's going on out there. Big growth
has happened in Florida in spurts. If you go back,
I'm looking at my notes here eighteen forty to eighteen
forty five. Florida became a state in eighteen forty five,
but the eighteen forty census, when they ran the census
as a territory, there were an eighteen forty fifty four
(07:49):
fifty five thousand people in Florida in the entire state.
Half of them were slaves. Okay, I mean, so you're
talking about twenty six, twenty seven foul and free landholders.
By eighteen forty five, the number was up to eighty
seven thousand people. So what's that thirty three thousand growth
(08:11):
as a percentage, A huge bump, but still only eighty
seven thousand people. I mean, Leon County has you know,
three hundred thousand people. That's not real huge. Thirty nine
thousand of those eighty seven thousand. Though in eighteen forty
five when we became a state, we're slaves and there
were one thousand free holders or free slaves. I'm sorry,
(08:33):
So Florida talking about change, I mean, find someplace else
that change that dramatically. Except for when we talk in
a couple of months about going west, were really no
population to boom. We've got people. How do you deal
with that? Those are the real, huge public policy issues
that government faces, even when it's inadequate, you know, talk
(08:57):
about change. I mean, I'm always fascinated by Florida and
how much it's changed. Of If you go back to
eighteen forty six, Florida had three we're just talking off air,
three electoral votes. We have thirty now, I mean I
have ten times the amount and probably should have more.
The next census, we definitely will get one or two
more congressional seats. Florida has played a pivotal role if
(09:19):
you go back to the Hayes Rutherford Hayes, who became
president as a Republican in eighteen seventy six election, ran
against a guy named Sam Tilden. Tilden was winning one
hundred and eighty four to one hundred and sixty five.
Most people don't understand the electoral college. It's kind of complex.
(09:40):
Legislatures used to drive that whatever the popular vote was
in the state really didn't matter as much. They would
tend to go with it. We experienced some of that
here in Florida and the conversation in two thousand that
the legislature could have gone, oh, we're going over this direction.
They could do what they want. That's very clear in
the constitution. Tilden was winning. He had one hundred and
(10:03):
sixty five votes, twenty electoral college votes. One was from
Oregon that could have gone either way. It didn't really matter.
But Florida, South Carolina, and Louisiana, three deep South Southern states.
At the time I think of this is eighteen seventy six,
post Civil War, reconstruction's going on.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Begrudgingly, well, what do.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
The Southern states want? They wanted over They want all
those Feds to get out of their communities and go
back to Washington, leave them alone. Three states got together
and decided, brother, for days, you're gonna use the Republican
it was at the time they were pushing reconstruction. We
will end reconstruction. Bingo Hayes gets twenty votes, so he
(10:50):
goes from losing to winning. He needed one hundred and
eighty five votes to He ended up winning one hundred
and eighty five to one hundred and eighty four, and
reconstruy ptruction ended. Didn't have really much to do with
the election, just had to do with the big topical
issues at the time. So when people start complaining about
what's going on, yeah, we've always we've had fascinating we've
(11:11):
had worse. Yeah, in terms of manipulation and public policy
changes because of politics. That's one of my little tangents
that went. I I started reading all about that. Yeah,
how fascinating that was. I told you off error as well.
I looked and looked and looked, and all I could find. Apparently,
in the eighteen sixty election, which was the first time
(11:33):
Republicans won, Abraham Lincoln was their candidate, and there were
four different candidates. The country was really chopped up. Apparently
Abraham Lincoln didn't get any votes out of Florida.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
That is a dubious distinction.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Well, and you go back and you looked at eighteen
thirty nine, we had the Constitutional Convention in Port Saint Joe,
we were just talking about the little town. They in
eighteen forties they had to have a state constitution in
order to be approved for statehood. There were people in
Florida at the time. They barely approved the constitution. It
barely won in the election when they put it up
(12:14):
for a vote, mainly because there were people here that
thought and they thinking, this is this pre Civil War
slave states versus non slaves and trying to make all
these compromises. They thought, you know, if we wait a
little while, Florida could be two states. And so there
(12:34):
were people that were pro state, but they wanted us
to be two states East Florida, West Florida, or wherever
you divided it, so that the southern states would still
have more influence in the US Senate. And what happened,
Iowa decided they wanted to become a state. They started
moving real quick. They caught these people shorthanded down here,
(12:55):
and they kind of went, oh, well, we better go
ahead and just be one state and go in to
compromise because Ira would have been a free state, Florida
was a slave state. And that's where the balance came from.
All kind of weird stuff this morning, I understand you'll
give me that look.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I guess I just sometimes wonder how we've made it
this far.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
We kind of bumble and stumble along, and we don't
choose well. I often use that phrase, we choose poorly
at all kinds of levels. You listen to you and
Steve this morning, and locally nationally state whoever, we don't
often choose well, and we'd have to do a better
job of that.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
But when we have.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Failing, largely failing educational systems, particularly in the urban cities, yeah,
it's not much hope.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, thanks for the time, Good to be here as always.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Next month, more more tidbits yep, I can't wait, doctor
edmore whether it's twenty seven past the hour
Speaker 3 (14:00):
S
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