April 16, 2025 • 15 mins
Dr. Bob McClure, James Madison Institute, made his monthly visit to the show and hit some of the topical subjects in the news.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
All right, five minutes five minutes after the hour, It's
the Morning Show with Preston Scott. Good to be with you, friends,
and welcome to Wednesday. Hump dy, and we are joined
by doctor Bob McClure of the James Madison Institute. Hello,
my friend.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
How you doing, Preston, How you doing, my friend?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm doing well. I want to step back for a
second and get We have been talking at nauseum, as
has everybody about the tariffs. From your chair, and I
know that James Madison stays largely focused on Florida centric issues,
but you do take a broad look at a lot
of those issues, and from your seat, give me some
(00:46):
perspective on tariffs and what you think is happening here.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Well, we do because we are a think tank in Florida,
have tremendous opportunity to do a lot of work nationally.
If we were you know, no disrespect anybody from camp
who may be listening, but if I was running a
thing taking Kansas, we would not quite have the national
footprint that we do.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So we do weigh in on a lot of national
issues with Congress and with this White House. Having said that, Preston,
this is a negotiating ploy by President Trump. You know,
he he This is classic Trump, if you if you've
watched him in the past, if you've read the Art
of the Deal, he goes way beyond and then he
(01:30):
tacks back inward. Uh. And you're already seeing Uh. I
think it's up to maybe ninety countries that are coming
to the table to rework these teriffs. Now, in the
short term, you have a lot of instability in the market,
which I totally understand. You know, I'm not at the
(01:52):
age where I have to really, you know, worry about
that on a day by day basis. I'm not at
the retirement age. I get all of the volatility and
how that makes people nervous. Certainly Republicans in Congress are nervous.
They are a bunch of nervous nellies anyway. They're always
ready to cut and run. And so hopefully we have
(02:12):
some leadership that may may hold them steady. But this
is classic Trump, and I think what you're going to
see over the next sixty days is major movement in
a reduction in tariffs. Because Vietnam, Singapore, Taiwan, India, China,
(02:33):
these countries need access American to the American markets, and
China is really in no position from an economic standpoint
of it. We have debt, we run deficits, but China's
economy is incredibly brittle because it's being propped up by
government money. And I think what you're going to see
(02:53):
over the next sixty days, Preston, is these people are
gonna come to the table. They're gonna drop their tariffs.
America's going to lower theirs and limit and or eliminate them,
and we're going to restore this incredible global economy without
it becoming globalization in the classic sense of the word.
I think it's a win win for everyone.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I have mentioned over the years that you know, the
research has shown me that China is not capable of
being a consumer economy. They can't consume what they produce.
They don't have enough people making money in any type
of of at any type of level to allow for
discretionary spending. Whereas the United States is capable of of
(03:37):
consuming eighty percent of what it produces. We are a
consumer nation as well as a producing nation. Doesn't that
place the cards clearly in the hands of the president.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It absolutely does. And so if you think about it,
if we get this tax bill pass which is critical.
Not getting it passed is a no go. You're going
to see corpor rates continued lower. You're gonna see individual
tax rates continue to go down. Corporations are You're already
seeing manufacturing in corporations willing to invest in America. China
(04:10):
is propped up by the Chinese government. If you remember
years ago, they tried to implement market reforms, and those
reforms kind of worked and you had some establishment of
small middle class in China. But the reality is Yujping
has clamped down on that kind of market reform in China,
(04:34):
and they do not have the consumers. You're right, they
do not have the ability to consume what they produce,
much less consume what other countries around the world produced.
China Is economy is incredibly brittle, and they're at a
very very They're in a very very difficult position right now.
It's just gonna take some time.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Back with doctor Bob mcluy of the James Madison Institute.
Let's turn into some Florida politics and policy and one
of the big, big areas of debate which impacts so
many people, well, it impacts every Floridian in one form
or another. And it's the discussion going on right now
between the proposals on tax here in the state. Bob,
(05:16):
let me first, I want to work this backwards. Senate
President Ben Albritton said, you know, before we jump on
either a sales tax change or a property tax elimination,
maybe we need just a little bit more time to
study both of these plans and make sure that we
fully understand their impact, cause and effect, how this trickles
(05:37):
down to local cities and counties before we do anything.
I am of that approach. What do you think about
that approach first before we get into the specifics of
the proposals.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Well, I think I mean, first of all, integrate to
live in a state that has two coequal branches of
government competing to lower our taxes even more like the
debate is over tax cuts, not overspending. It's just I mean,
where do you see this New York State has double
(06:13):
the state budget we do with fewer people, and they're
constantly looking for ways to pick your pocket. There's a
reason why a thousand people are moving to Florida a day.
So isn't it refreshing that the Speaker and the Center
President and governor are competing over how best to cut
our taxes. Having sent that President, there are things that
(06:36):
must be worked out if we eliminate the property tax,
and I get the governor's philosophical point of view, He's right,
do you ever really own your house? What replaces that?
Is it a higher sales tax? Is it raising the
homestead exemption by one hundred thousand dollars? I don't know
(06:58):
the answer to that. Conversely, you have the Senate or
the Speaker of the House talking about raising, you know,
cutting the sales tax, and so I think we need
to we need to have serious conversations, and we need
to have some serious data on this to understand it.
But the momentum is the only thing, you know. You know,
(07:20):
politicians are notorious for you know, blue ribbon panels and
appointing committee this committee that, and we lose the momentum
to actually do something significant. That would be my only concern.
But I think you're right, we have to understand the
ramifications because there are very real ramifications. One more thing
on that present is that it's the local government and
(07:42):
local municipalities that are the primary problem. So if we
cut property taxes or we do something else, we have
to make sure those local municipalities don't try to claw
back by raising a tax somewhere else in these local communities.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And at the same time, you have to find a
mechanism for the local communities to fund their operations obviously
focused on, you know, protecting citizenry and infrastructure. You know,
I would I would argue that there are communities in
Florida that waste a lot of taxpayer money, but they
tend to be blue counties and blue cities that do that.
(08:19):
And so I guess my thought here is do we
need to just hit the tap the brakes a little
bit on this and take another year to look at them,
or is the momentum factor, as you mentioned, more important.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I you know, I'm always hesitant to tap the brakes,
but I don't know if we can get all of
the data in and understand fully the ramifications, because what
you don't want is the law of unintended consequences. Right.
The other area that that will be heard that has
to sort this out or the rural communities. And Senator
(08:57):
all britain Is has made the centerpiece of one of
his legislation is protecting and promoting rural communities. I mean gosh,
in North Florida, all you have to drive is ten
minutes in any direction, and you're in a rural county,
and so we have to be very careful about how
(09:18):
we do this. Can it be done before the end
of session? That is very ambitious. I don't know if
they want to give it a shot, give it the
Old College. Try sure, But we have to have the
data before we just start doing these things, because there
would be tremendous, potentially unintended consequences in a lot of
(09:40):
these areas.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Twenty two minutes past where with doctor Bob McClure, always
a great conversation, the head of the James Madison Institute,
And it is a great point that you make, Bob, that, boy,
what a problem to have that we're talking about different
ways to reduce taxes for the people that live in
this state. Understanding the property owners that rent their proper
parties out their renters hopefully would benefit. Uh, there's no
(10:04):
guarantee of that, but it certainly relieves some pressure on
housing in the state if property owners are no longer
paying property taxes. But without the data, just on the
surface level, which of these two proposals do you lean towards.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Oh gosh, Preston, I think both have pretty good merit.
I like the elimination of property taxes in some way
because people can see it how much. I mean, if
I were to say to you, how much sales tax
do you pay a year, you probably don't know. I don't,
I don't, I don't know what I pay. And I
think you know, there is a philosophical component to the
(10:42):
point that do you really own your home if the
government can flap a lean on you for not paying
your property taxes? So I like that it's simple. I mean,
it's not simple. It's it's it's simple, but not easy.
Let me say that it's people can see it significant
because really not so much. You know, in North Florida.
(11:04):
We're not talking about Gason County or or you know,
Madison County, but in some of those areas in Caller
and and Browered and you know, some of those places
that are fast growing, I mean, they property taxes are
just just unsustainable. And when you talk about affordable housing
and you talk about property insurance, you know, all of
(11:25):
this combined makes it really hard for people to buy homes,
and you know, particularly younger people. And so I like
that we just the devils into details, as they say,
you know.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
For me, I mean, I have been advocating. It's so funny.
I've been advocating this issue on property tax since I
started the show in two thousand and two. I've been
a champion of this idea. And I'm of the mindset
that the governor put out, and that is that you know,
we do so well with tourism, and we had a
(12:00):
record tourism year last year alone. We have the largest
share of tourism visitors of any state in the nation.
We get fifteen percent of all the tourists that come
to America come to Florida, yep, and so, and then
when you count the people that are just visiting from
other states and the migration factor. I like the idea
(12:21):
of leaving the sales tax where it is and letting
all of those visitors help pay for our infrastructure, help
pay for our governance, and maybe, if anything, maybe carve
out a portion of that sales tax to then go
back to cities and counties to replace the property tax
revenue that they would lose.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Sure, I mean, there are so many different ways to
skin that cat. I think that you know, we're having
this discussion with our policy team yesterday. You know, and
I'm not advocating for this, but the old bed tax
and the you know, the all these different different ways
that we could skin this cat to make sure that
local communities are protect in some way. There's no doubt.
(13:01):
I mean, you know, we have roughly the equivalent of
the entire country of Germany coming to Florida, just Florida
every year and then going back. Germany's the largest bipopulation
country in Europe. It's just amazing how many people come here.
Let them pay for it. Not to mention super Bowls
(13:22):
and Final Fours and concerts and Taylor Swift and all
of the things that happened in Florida all the time.
I think that makes sound. That sound logic.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Preston, what do you think We've got about a minute left.
What beneath this issue is bubbling on your particular burner
right now?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I'm my there too. One. The trial lawyers are trying
to roll back the reforms that were put in place
two years ago that are driving down the cost of
property insurance in a good way. And the trial lawyers
have lost their edge and they are they are trying
(14:04):
to roll those reforms back, and everybody's blaming insurance companies. Look,
nobody loves their insurance company. They're not warm and fuzzy.
They never help themselves. I understand that. But those reforms,
those tort reforms, are driving down the cost of property
insurance and will continue to do so over the next
year or two. Secondly, affordable housing affordable housing. I've said
(14:28):
this one hundred times. There's a difference between building affordable
housing and building housing that is affordable. And we have
to build good housing that is affordable by reducing permitting
and wait times and the cost of doing business for builders.
Those are the other two issues. But we really have
to push back on the trial bar. All those billboards
(14:48):
and all those buses that we see. They are attacks
on Floridians on an annual basis.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Bob, thanks as always for your time this morning. I
appreciate it, and we'll talk again next month and we'll
know little bit more about what happened in the session
by then.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Thanks for having me, my friend.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Thank you, sir, Doctor Bob McClure with me from the
James Madison Institute. Twenty seven passed the hour
All right, five minutes five minutes after the hour, It's
the Morning Show with Preston Scott. Good to be with you, friends,
and welcome to Wednesday. Hump dy, and we are joined
by doctor Bob McClure of the James Madison Institute. Hello,
my friend.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
How you doing, Preston, How you doing, my friend?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm doing well. I want to step back for a
second and get We have been talking at nauseum, as
has everybody about the tariffs. From your chair, and I
know that James Madison stays largely focused on Florida centric issues,
but you do take a broad look at a lot
of those issues, and from your seat, give me some
(00:46):
perspective on tariffs and what you think is happening here.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Well, we do because we are a think tank in Florida,
have tremendous opportunity to do a lot of work nationally.
If we were you know, no disrespect anybody from camp
who may be listening, but if I was running a
thing taking Kansas, we would not quite have the national
footprint that we do.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So we do weigh in on a lot of national
issues with Congress and with this White House. Having said that, Preston,
this is a negotiating ploy by President Trump. You know,
he he This is classic Trump, if you if you've
watched him in the past, if you've read the Art
of the Deal, he goes way beyond and then he
(01:30):
tacks back inward. Uh. And you're already seeing Uh. I
think it's up to maybe ninety countries that are coming
to the table to rework these teriffs. Now, in the
short term, you have a lot of instability in the market,
which I totally understand. You know, I'm not at the
(01:52):
age where I have to really, you know, worry about
that on a day by day basis. I'm not at
the retirement age. I get all of the volatility and
how that makes people nervous. Certainly Republicans in Congress are nervous.
They are a bunch of nervous nellies anyway. They're always
ready to cut and run. And so hopefully we have
(02:12):
some leadership that may may hold them steady. But this
is classic Trump, and I think what you're going to
see over the next sixty days is major movement in
a reduction in tariffs. Because Vietnam, Singapore, Taiwan, India, China,
(02:33):
these countries need access American to the American markets, and
China is really in no position from an economic standpoint
of it. We have debt, we run deficits, but China's
economy is incredibly brittle because it's being propped up by
government money. And I think what you're going to see
(02:53):
over the next sixty days, Preston, is these people are
gonna come to the table. They're gonna drop their tariffs.
America's going to lower theirs and limit and or eliminate them,
and we're going to restore this incredible global economy without
it becoming globalization in the classic sense of the word.
I think it's a win win for everyone.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I have mentioned over the years that you know, the
research has shown me that China is not capable of
being a consumer economy. They can't consume what they produce.
They don't have enough people making money in any type
of of at any type of level to allow for
discretionary spending. Whereas the United States is capable of of
(03:37):
consuming eighty percent of what it produces. We are a
consumer nation as well as a producing nation. Doesn't that
place the cards clearly in the hands of the president.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It absolutely does. And so if you think about it,
if we get this tax bill pass which is critical.
Not getting it passed is a no go. You're going
to see corpor rates continued lower. You're gonna see individual
tax rates continue to go down. Corporations are You're already
seeing manufacturing in corporations willing to invest in America. China
(04:10):
is propped up by the Chinese government. If you remember
years ago, they tried to implement market reforms, and those
reforms kind of worked and you had some establishment of
small middle class in China. But the reality is Yujping
has clamped down on that kind of market reform in China,
(04:34):
and they do not have the consumers. You're right, they
do not have the ability to consume what they produce,
much less consume what other countries around the world produced.
China Is economy is incredibly brittle, and they're at a
very very They're in a very very difficult position right now.
It's just gonna take some time.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Back with doctor Bob mcluy of the James Madison Institute.
Let's turn into some Florida politics and policy and one
of the big, big areas of debate which impacts so
many people, well, it impacts every Floridian in one form
or another. And it's the discussion going on right now
between the proposals on tax here in the state. Bob,
(05:16):
let me first, I want to work this backwards. Senate
President Ben Albritton said, you know, before we jump on
either a sales tax change or a property tax elimination,
maybe we need just a little bit more time to
study both of these plans and make sure that we
fully understand their impact, cause and effect, how this trickles
(05:37):
down to local cities and counties before we do anything.
I am of that approach. What do you think about
that approach first before we get into the specifics of
the proposals.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Well, I think I mean, first of all, integrate to
live in a state that has two coequal branches of
government competing to lower our taxes even more like the
debate is over tax cuts, not overspending. It's just I mean,
where do you see this New York State has double
(06:13):
the state budget we do with fewer people, and they're
constantly looking for ways to pick your pocket. There's a
reason why a thousand people are moving to Florida a day.
So isn't it refreshing that the Speaker and the Center
President and governor are competing over how best to cut
our taxes. Having sent that President, there are things that
(06:36):
must be worked out if we eliminate the property tax,
and I get the governor's philosophical point of view, He's right,
do you ever really own your house? What replaces that?
Is it a higher sales tax? Is it raising the
homestead exemption by one hundred thousand dollars? I don't know
(06:58):
the answer to that. Conversely, you have the Senate or
the Speaker of the House talking about raising, you know,
cutting the sales tax, and so I think we need
to we need to have serious conversations, and we need
to have some serious data on this to understand it.
But the momentum is the only thing, you know. You know,
(07:20):
politicians are notorious for you know, blue ribbon panels and
appointing committee this committee that, and we lose the momentum
to actually do something significant. That would be my only concern.
But I think you're right, we have to understand the
ramifications because there are very real ramifications. One more thing
on that present is that it's the local government and
(07:42):
local municipalities that are the primary problem. So if we
cut property taxes or we do something else, we have
to make sure those local municipalities don't try to claw
back by raising a tax somewhere else in these local communities.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And at the same time, you have to find a
mechanism for the local communities to fund their operations obviously
focused on, you know, protecting citizenry and infrastructure. You know,
I would I would argue that there are communities in
Florida that waste a lot of taxpayer money, but they
tend to be blue counties and blue cities that do that.
(08:19):
And so I guess my thought here is do we
need to just hit the tap the brakes a little
bit on this and take another year to look at them,
or is the momentum factor, as you mentioned, more important.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I you know, I'm always hesitant to tap the brakes,
but I don't know if we can get all of
the data in and understand fully the ramifications, because what
you don't want is the law of unintended consequences. Right.
The other area that that will be heard that has
to sort this out or the rural communities. And Senator
(08:57):
all britain Is has made the centerpiece of one of
his legislation is protecting and promoting rural communities. I mean gosh,
in North Florida, all you have to drive is ten
minutes in any direction, and you're in a rural county,
and so we have to be very careful about how
(09:18):
we do this. Can it be done before the end
of session? That is very ambitious. I don't know if
they want to give it a shot, give it the
Old College. Try sure, But we have to have the
data before we just start doing these things, because there
would be tremendous, potentially unintended consequences in a lot of
(09:40):
these areas.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Twenty two minutes past where with doctor Bob McClure, always
a great conversation, the head of the James Madison Institute,
And it is a great point that you make, Bob, that, boy,
what a problem to have that we're talking about different
ways to reduce taxes for the people that live in
this state. Understanding the property owners that rent their proper
parties out their renters hopefully would benefit. Uh, there's no
(10:04):
guarantee of that, but it certainly relieves some pressure on
housing in the state if property owners are no longer
paying property taxes. But without the data, just on the
surface level, which of these two proposals do you lean towards.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Oh gosh, Preston, I think both have pretty good merit.
I like the elimination of property taxes in some way
because people can see it how much. I mean, if
I were to say to you, how much sales tax
do you pay a year, you probably don't know. I don't,
I don't, I don't know what I pay. And I
think you know, there is a philosophical component to the
(10:42):
point that do you really own your home if the
government can flap a lean on you for not paying
your property taxes? So I like that it's simple. I mean,
it's not simple. It's it's it's simple, but not easy.
Let me say that it's people can see it significant
because really not so much. You know, in North Florida.
(11:04):
We're not talking about Gason County or or you know,
Madison County, but in some of those areas in Caller
and and Browered and you know, some of those places
that are fast growing, I mean, they property taxes are
just just unsustainable. And when you talk about affordable housing
and you talk about property insurance, you know, all of
(11:25):
this combined makes it really hard for people to buy homes,
and you know, particularly younger people. And so I like
that we just the devils into details, as they say,
you know.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
For me, I mean, I have been advocating. It's so funny.
I've been advocating this issue on property tax since I
started the show in two thousand and two. I've been
a champion of this idea. And I'm of the mindset
that the governor put out, and that is that you know,
we do so well with tourism, and we had a
(12:00):
record tourism year last year alone. We have the largest
share of tourism visitors of any state in the nation.
We get fifteen percent of all the tourists that come
to America come to Florida, yep, and so, and then
when you count the people that are just visiting from
other states and the migration factor. I like the idea
(12:21):
of leaving the sales tax where it is and letting
all of those visitors help pay for our infrastructure, help
pay for our governance, and maybe, if anything, maybe carve
out a portion of that sales tax to then go
back to cities and counties to replace the property tax
revenue that they would lose.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Sure, I mean, there are so many different ways to
skin that cat. I think that you know, we're having
this discussion with our policy team yesterday. You know, and
I'm not advocating for this, but the old bed tax
and the you know, the all these different different ways
that we could skin this cat to make sure that
local communities are protect in some way. There's no doubt.
(13:01):
I mean, you know, we have roughly the equivalent of
the entire country of Germany coming to Florida, just Florida
every year and then going back. Germany's the largest bipopulation
country in Europe. It's just amazing how many people come here.
Let them pay for it. Not to mention super Bowls
(13:22):
and Final Fours and concerts and Taylor Swift and all
of the things that happened in Florida all the time.
I think that makes sound. That sound logic.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Preston, what do you think We've got about a minute left.
What beneath this issue is bubbling on your particular burner
right now?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I'm my there too. One. The trial lawyers are trying
to roll back the reforms that were put in place
two years ago that are driving down the cost of
property insurance in a good way. And the trial lawyers
have lost their edge and they are they are trying
(14:04):
to roll those reforms back, and everybody's blaming insurance companies. Look,
nobody loves their insurance company. They're not warm and fuzzy.
They never help themselves. I understand that. But those reforms,
those tort reforms, are driving down the cost of property
insurance and will continue to do so over the next
year or two. Secondly, affordable housing affordable housing. I've said
(14:28):
this one hundred times. There's a difference between building affordable
housing and building housing that is affordable. And we have
to build good housing that is affordable by reducing permitting
and wait times and the cost of doing business for builders.
Those are the other two issues. But we really have
to push back on the trial bar. All those billboards
(14:48):
and all those buses that we see. They are attacks
on Floridians on an annual basis.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Bob, thanks as always for your time this morning. I
appreciate it, and we'll talk again next month and we'll
know little bit more about what happened in the session
by then.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Thanks for having me, my friend.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Thank you, sir, Doctor Bob McClure with me from the
James Madison Institute. Twenty seven passed the hour
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