August 11, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode of Demystifying Money, host Misty Lynch sits down with divorce coach Lyerly Spongberg to discuss the realities of navigating divorce—both emotionally and financially. Discover practical strategies and insights to help you approach one of life’s toughest transitions with clarity and confidence.
Where to find Lyerly Spongberg
Website: stepupwithlyerly.com
Instagram: @stepup_withlyerly
LinkedIn: lyerly-spongberg-2968483/
Where to find Misty
Websites:
- How Lyerly’s personal journey as a single mom and entrepreneur led her to divorce coaching
- The benefits of an emotionally attuned approach to conflict resolution and communication during divorce
- The different roles of divorce coaches, mediators, and attorneys—and when to seek each one
- Key financial considerations, including budgeting for divorce and managing money when separating
- Tools and techniques for building negotiation skills, managing emotions, and maintaining focus on what matters most
Where to find Lyerly Spongberg
Website: stepupwithlyerly.com
Instagram: @stepup_withlyerly
LinkedIn: lyerly-spongberg-2968483/
Where to find Misty
Websites:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Demistifying Money podcast, where each week you
will hear unforgettable conversations with expert guests about success, money, business,
and small steps you can take to elevate your life
and wealth. Now here's your host, Misty Lynch.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, thank you so much for joining me for this
episode of Demistifying Money. I'm your host, Misty Lynch, and
today my guest is Liarley Spongberg. She's a divorce coach
and the owner of Step Up with Lyarley, who combines
professional training and real life experiences to help guide her
clients through one of life's hardest decisions.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Lyarley, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
This episode of Demistifying Money with Misty Lynch is proudly
sponsored by Soundview Financial Advisors. Visit www dot Soundview financial
Advisors dot com to learn more.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So, when you were in your thirties, you decided to
leave your marriage and start over as a single mom.
Tell me a little bit about how that decision has
changed your life and brought you to this point today
where you're helping other people navigate divorce.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Well, I married when I was young, certainly for the
time I was in my I was twenty four when
I got married, and I had two great kids, have
two great kids, started a business which was successful, and
just felt my marriage is very hollow, and it was not.
There was just something that was really off and it
took a lot of courage to make that decision, and
(01:31):
when I went through it, it was pretty high conflict.
It took a long time, and there were not a
lot of resources out there other than you know, sort
of hiring an attorney and sort of muddling my way
through it. After that, I a few years after I
got divorced, I was lucky enough to find someone else.
I got remarried and blended a family of six, so
(01:53):
I raised six kids, and once once they were really
out of the nest, I realized how much my divorce
had impacted me and how much I thought about it
sort of in the back of my mind, and it
influenced a lot of things in my life. I decided
to really dig into that, and once I did, I
realized that I felt there was a lot wrong with
(02:15):
a divorce process and wanted to figure out how to
make a change, and researched life coaching, which I am
certified in and then found Divorce Coaches Academy where I
trained as a certified Alternative Dispute Resolution divorce coach.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
So before you left, you mentioned that you had a
business that was successful.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
What were you doing before?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Have you always been an entrepreneur, had that kind of
entrepreneurial spirit or were you working for a company. But
it sounds like you had your own money coming in
before you decided to divorce. Did that have an impact
on your ability to make this decisions?
Speaker 4 (02:50):
That's a great question. I did. I was a graphic
designer by training, and I had moved a few times
with my ex husband for his job. In doing so,
left a job that I really loved as a graphic designer,
which compelled me to start a baby blanket company called
Little Moon Jumper, which is still in an existence, which
(03:10):
I've had for nearly thirty years, and that was my
own baby. I still have it and it has it.
Did it gave me some confidence to go out and
be on my own knowing I had that?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So your approach is very emotionally attuned, which I think
is very helpful for people going through this. But what
does that mean in practice? For somebody that's going through
a divorce.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Well, there are a lot of factors that play into divorce.
It depends sort of wherever you are on the spectrum,
if you're trying to figure out if that's the right
course for you, you know, if you're in the middle of it,
or if you're even if post divorce. There are so
many emotions that need to be processed, and one of
the issues that really comes up the divorce coaches can
(03:53):
help with is managing your emotions in the process. And
I'm really a conflict solutions specialists because divorce is full
of conflict. Even the kindest divorces, conflicts come up parenting
plans and financial issues and being able to have emotional
intelligence and approach these conflicts as problems to be solved
(04:17):
and opportunities to come up with a solution. It's the
best way to keep things civil. And there's skills that
you can be taught.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Do you work with one person or do you work
with couples one person?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
One person?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
So typically typically I mean I prefer to work in mediation.
The goal is to try to change change a big
there's a big shift to try to change divorce processes
from litigation into mediation, and in mediation, a mediator needs
to be a neutral party, so they are not there
for one individuals. Coach really can help someone with emotional management,
(04:53):
as I mentioned, as well as a lot of other
skills for negotiating and strategizing.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
That's interesting and that makes sense because I feel like
at this point when you come in and also you've
mentioned your life coaching skills, where I think a lot
of people don't realize how much one person can change
the dynamic in any conversation or relationship without having to
make somebody else change or having to try to force
your will on somebody. So I think that's interesting because
(05:18):
a lot of times I've talked to people who are in,
you know, high conflict situations, whether it's at work or
at home, and they want the other person to just
change and just realize all the mistakes they're making everything bad,
and you know deep down that that you can't.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
That's a great that's a great point, and that is
that is something a lot of people run up against
in a few ways. One is typically people in the
past have thought the first thing I need to need
to do when I get a divorces har An attorney
tough attorney depending on you know, I need somebody who's
a bulldog. I need someone who's going to stand up
for me and that that is that mentality to go
and win. And a lot of times people are expecting
(05:58):
to have this emotional justification moment in the court system.
It doesn't it doesn't exist. There's no opportunity to go
share your story and say, hey, he's a bad guy,
she's you know, she did this, she did that. It
doesn't work that way. So you're absolutely right. If one
person can learn how to communicate it effectively, uh and
strategize on how to have these conversations and stay in control,
(06:22):
then the whole dynamic can shift.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I think that's that could be so helpful. And I
think it's important for people to consider where they might
need support in coaching, just like any other sport, any
other skill that they're trying to learn that maybe they
feel like they're you know, confused about or too too
invested in it to really see clearly. I think that's
where a coach can really help, even if it's just
asking questions differently and you use different concepts and tools
(06:49):
in your practice.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Can you talk a little bit about those school.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Those those types of you know, approaches and tools that
you use with your clients.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Sure, depending on sort of where we are on the process.
And I'm also trained as a pre mediation divorce coach,
which is preparing people specifically for the mediation process. One
of the big one of the most important things in negotiating,
negotiating in a divorce is really understanding what your interests
are instead of your position. People get very stuck on, Hey,
(07:19):
I need I need to stay in my house. Well,
that might might not make financial sense, you know, in
uncovering the reasons why I need to be I really
want my kids to stay in the same school district.
That's the difference, that's the interest versus getting really stuck
on a position. And so we work on tools. We
assess values, you know, value threats, what what the concept
(07:43):
of what fair? Is the concept of you know, keeping
if you have children, keeping them at the center of
the focus of everything. We work on reality testing. What
do you want your divorce to look like? What do
you want your graduation for your kids to look like,
to look in the weed for your parents together, or
do you want to be on opposite sides of the stadium.
(08:03):
So you know what's your vision for how this plays out,
and then you're based on your values, like make sure
that the decisions you make are aligned with what is
the most important to you.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
I think that's important.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
A lot of people are thinking about right now, but
asking a question about how you want to feel at
an event twelve years from now or something like that
is probably something they haven't really gotten to or thought of,
and it might change their perspective and how they approach
things today. So I think that can be I think
that's important. I think that's really helpful. And I've seen
that recently divorce rates and I'm not sure. I think
(08:38):
I've heard this on the radio that they've been they've
been going up, especially in June. And I don't know
if that's a seasonal thing, if that's something that's happened
post pandemic or what's going on. But have you seen
any changes as far as the people you're talking to
and what you're hearing when it comes to divorce, or
if people are feeling like they've been stuck for a
number of years and feel like now they can maybe
(09:00):
do something.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Are you noticing any trends there or is this just
something that I might have heard.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
I don't know that I'm noticing any trends. I think,
you know, I think I think it's such a It's
a huge decision, apparently second only in stress level to
losing a child, So it is it is a huge decision,
and I think during the pandemic things definitely changed, really stuck.
There were not a lot of options. So maybe there
has been serializations that there are opportunities for people to
(09:27):
get out of unhappy relationships. But it's a huge decision,
no doubt, it's one of the biggest ones you can make.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I've definitely seen that where some people are actually living
with their ex and staying in the same spot for
financial reasons. Is that an area where you could potentially
help somebody who might be living with somebody that they
are separated from or are currently divorced from, because I
can't imagine how that goes.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Yeah, I mean personally, I can't imagine had that situation.
There are scenarios when people do nesting, which is which
is where if they have children, the children stay in
place in a home and the parents are the ones
that come and go, so the children have the security
of staying in their own home. I I don't know.
(10:14):
I haven't worked with anyone who's been in that case.
I think that was difficult.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, No, it's definitely something I've seen or you know,
I've talked to a few people where it's really Yeah,
the home is really driving a lot of the big
financial piece of it because they can't buy the other
person out. They can't, they don't want to sell it,
they don't know where.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
They would go, and so a lot of a lot of.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
The the issues do you send tend to, you know,
come back to money in certain ways. Obviously there's other
things that are factors in divorce, but that that big
financial piece of it is really important I think to
look at with somebody or talk to just to really
understand what's going on there and you know, how to
make things work in the best possible way with all
(10:57):
of these competing and conflicting goals. I'm curious what are
some of your divorce coaching. Seems like it's a relatively
new business. I don't know if I've heard of it
until fairly recently. You know, life coaching, other types of coaches,
therapists for marriage and stuff. But I think like your
your your line of work is relatively new. Uh, tell me,
(11:19):
what are some of the misconceptions that you see when
you introduce yourself to people and tell them what you do.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Well, I think people will always sort of what I
don't I've never heard of that. That's that's usually the
first thing that people say, and and I say, you know,
I what I tell them is that it's certainly a
new field. And really we are here to you know,
you're you want to you find if you are looking
for a divorce goo someone who's certified, who's trained, not
(11:45):
just has been divorced. That's not a qualification for being
a life coach, but someone who really has a framework
for how to help people through all this. And wait,
can you preat your question again, because I've forgotten exactly
what you asked me.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Oh, just the misconceptions and what people you know, what
they might think you do.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
I think they think that I give them advice, which
I don't. I'm not here. I'm not a I'm not
an attorney, I'm not a therapist. I'm really here to
help them move forward through process. It's really difficult. I
help them. You know, knowledge is power, so help them
understand the processes you know what, there are numerous ways
(12:24):
to get divorced, so people don't know that. They don't
ever think about putting together a divorce budget. How much
do you want to spend on your divorce? You know what?
What what's really important to you? What? What are? What are?
You know? How do I put a proposal together? How
do I how do I negotiate with someone? How do
I manage my you know, my emotions around someone who
i've I've clearly can't be married to now. So so
(12:46):
all these emotions are going to keep coming up. That's
not all of a sudden going to get better when
you're getting divorced. So I help, you know, I really
help them learn how to get through this difficult time
and ask a lot of questions because really people know
what they want. They just need the time to consider
what that is and base base their decisions on what's
(13:08):
the most important to them.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I think did people think that you must not be married?
Speaker 4 (13:14):
I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm sure because you're
definitely married.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You're married right now, right, And yeah, I think that when.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
I'm married, and I yeah, I think I think people
probably do think that I'm divorced. You know and never
got remarried.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Probably.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Oh it's interesting because I think that's one of the
things I love about entrepreneurship and business and how things change.
There's going to be a lot more jobs that are
not ones that we've commonly heard of or maybe we
didn't go to school or you know, as a little
girl dream about being what we end up doing. I
think that that's going to become more and more normal
because a lot of problems are really solved, and a
lot of innovation comes from seeing where there's where there's gaps,
(13:53):
where there's problems that don't have a current solution, or
that things are just harder than they need to be.
And so I think that that's something that we're going
to continue to see more of, even as you know,
technology and certain things take over. I do feel like
that human piece of it, that managing your emotions, that
talking to somebody who understands you, that's helping you kind
of see a more clarity around what you're doing. Those
(14:15):
jobs are going to become more and more important, I
think in this economy. So I do think that it's
something to you know, if you feel like there is
something that's.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Happened in your life that is.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
That you could maybe build from or help more people from.
I think it's just a really interesting thing. Not to
ignore it because you just you don't know how to
start because I think you just kind of back into
it with you know, like you did with the life coach,
and we've seen other coaches.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
How do they do it? What do they get? Oh,
they get certified?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Okay, and just continue to be curious because I think
a lot of us, you know, depends on who it
is that you feel compelled to help. But there's certainly
things out there that can make I think very you know,
lucrative careers. Would you mind talking about the business side
of it for you and how that's kind of changed
and evolved, and how you work with clients specifically, and
(15:07):
you know, kind of the packages or how would somebody
work with you if they were interested.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Sure, I happy address that. I also just wanted to
bring up something you said which I loved, which was
how important the human approaches and how important it is.
I mean, AI is never going to be able to
help someone through all this in a divorce and the
compassion and the empathy and learning these skills, Yeah, they're
incredibly important and divorce. But they also they're also so
(15:33):
beneficial in all aspects of your life, learning how to
you know, sort of control, control yourself and not let
your amigdala take over a conversation and lose it. You can't,
you can't make a rational decision when you're not thinking soundly.
I appreciate you saying that about the human touch and
bringing bringing experience and wanting to help people solve problems
(15:53):
that you've recognized that that you could mean it's it's been,
it's it's it's been an incredible experience for me to
help people and see them thrive through something where I've
just floundered. I had no idea, so so thank you
for bringing that up.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
And in terms of.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Working with clients, I work with clients. I have a
number of different packages and summer and I also offer
free console calls so people can see if we're a
good fit. So that's always, you know, sort of step
number one. And then if they're trying to figure things out,
I off for packages of three and six. Then also
one that's very much focused on pre mediation, which is
(16:30):
a package of eight sessions with very specific, very specific
goals in mind and trying to get things done in
a certain timeframe.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So pre mediation I've talked to some people, and I
know that from my perspective I've seen I haven't talked
to too many people where mediation worked very well. And
it might be just because I don't think people understand
what when it's the right fit when it's not. And
you said that divorce is kind of moving that way
direction versus litigation. So what can what should some people
(17:01):
think about in that pre mediation phase so that they
actually use it for what it's meant for and take
advantage of that process, because I feel like some people
maybe don't understand what that process is and kind of
feel like they're wasting money and time and then they
end up just hiring a lawyer eventually anyway because they
(17:22):
kind of didn't go through that process, right.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Can you explain that a little bit more to me?
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Sure? So the best way to describe it is that
you want to be as informed as possible. One of
the women that train me uses the analogy of you
aren't going to remodel your kitchen without plans and you
aren't going to hire You aren't going to hire electrician
to put your tiles in so you want a team
that is very specific. You want experts in what they're doing.
(17:50):
And in mediation, you're preparing to negotiate. And negotiation is
basically giving up something you want for something you want more.
So in order to do that, you need to determine
what is important to you. You need to determine what's
most important to you. And in mediation you're allowed you
have the opportunity to agree to what works for both you,
(18:12):
your partner, and your children. If you go to court
and you go to litigation, there's state mandates, there's one
that's really they're not interested in you, they're not interested
in your family. You might get a family judge who
has had a fight with his kid that morning and
shows up and they don't care. So in mediation you
have an opportunity to really be the CEO of your
own divorce, and that's really the goal of mediation. You
(18:36):
do want to have often a consulting attorney. You might
need a CDFA, you might need a realtor to help
you sell your house. So you put together a team
of professionals that are experts in what they do to
help you get through this with the least amount of
chaos and save money. It sounds counterintuitive often to have
a team, but if you're strategically asking in the right questions,
(18:58):
you're not just hiring them to to solve every problem
that you have.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, because I feel like with mediation, like the goal
isn't to win, it's to agree right on an outcome.
And so if you feel like I'm never going to
agree with this person, mediation is going to be difficult
unless you have somebody telling you this is what we
need to do. This is some of the things that
we should think about pre ahead of time, instead of
going into it just thinking of somebody will they'll just
(19:24):
agree with me and know that I'm right, which is.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Which is rarely gonna happen, really gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, And I think it's important what you said about
the court system and how sometimes they might not care
or they might have a bias.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Or whatever is going on, Like it is not there.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
It's not their job to care. It's their job to
execute the law. And and that's that's really where where
family courts can really fail people and their decision. You're
giving up your decision making process and that that's that's
a big thing to do. You're you're these are decisions
in a divorce that you live with for the rest
of your life.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, Now, I think that's interesting and I think it
is something that would definitely be worth while. You mentioned
having a free consultation if you really do need that
kind of clarity and understanding, because some people this might
be the first time they've ever even encountered this system.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
And I mean, no one knows what they're doing unless
they've been divorced, So for right, something something that anyone
knows how to do. So, you know, I like to
kind of think myself as a divorce doula, right, I've
I've been through it. I can I can answer a
lot of questions around it. If I don't know the answer,
I'm happy to point you in the direction of an
expert that does and put together a team so that
(20:31):
you can successfully get through something with and something that
you want to live with, something that makes sure you
children that you are, you know, creating a nurturing environment
in spite of the fact that you are living in
two different homes and what that looks like and what
those terms are, and maybe something that's really important to
you isn't as important to your soon to be ex Yeah,
and there's a trade off there.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
M Now, I think that's important, kind of figuring out
what your priorities are, knowing that you might have to
make some concessions. But yeah, I think that that is
important to know instead of going in with that kind
of really hoping for hoping for everything to work out
your way, which just may not.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
No, it's not going to ever go. You're not going
to get everything you want. But that doesn't mean, you know,
like the Rolling Stones song, but but you can get
you can. You know, if you learn how to negotiate
properly and you learn you learn some tactical strategic skills
and how to again manage your emotions and keep your cool,
and you know what you're working towards you, you can
(21:34):
effectively negotiate for yourself.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Do you have any tools or any times where you've
talked to somebody who really has never managed the finances
at all and feel like that is one of the
things that might be keeping them in a situation that's
no longer good for them.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Yes, And I think I would say typically that's women
in general, that women have had either little input or
limited access, not not because of any any wrongdoing, but
just not you know, that hasn't been sort of the
role in their family and are scared of that. And
sometimes sometimes it's as simple as as letting them, you know,
(22:12):
helping them understand that child support and spousal support are
actually state formulas, so they're again knowledge putting people at ease,
like you're going to get get this, and then you
can put them in touch with someone like you does
you know, financial planning who really can help them understand
what their next steps would look like after the border.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Settlement, and a lot of times with the financial end
of it, I have seen, you know, we're people, and
I know that this is something that you've worked with
and are sort of like with coercive control and trauma
that maybe for no fault of their own, they've been
kind of kept outside of the financial picture, or they've
been you know, deceived or and so I feel like
that is something that I think some courts, some states
(22:55):
are starting to recognize. But it is something that you know,
I think causes a lot of shame, a lot of guilts,
a lot of different feelings when it comes up.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
But as you said, it is important to.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Have those kind of resources to know that this is
how it is looked at. These are state formulas like
you mentioned and things like that, because some people may
really just not understand or no feel like maybe there's
something else that's hiding, but they would never know how
to figure that out, and so those are sometimes where
it's just really sad situations. I love working with couples
because I feel like when we get the whole financial
(23:25):
picture kind of out there, I think it does resolve
some conflicts in a marriage talking about the money together,
even if one person is taking the lead on the
income earning or the spending or the budgeting. I think
it is so it's so helpful when there is a
clear picture, right, because that can be a cause for
a lot of conflict and communication issues that can I
(23:46):
know they say money is one of the leading.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Causes of divorce. I'm not sure if it really is.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I think a lot of times it's communication and conflict
and other things that kind of money takes the blame for.
But I haven't had anybody really say I left my
husband because he lost his job, or I left my
wife because she didn't make enough money, Like it's usually
something else. So how do you help people with it
when it comes to communication when when you're dealing with
(24:11):
people that you know they're kind of in a situation
that's really bringing out the worst in maybe how they're
feeling or what they want to say, or maybe there's anger.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Or you know, fear.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
How do you how do you help people kind of
navigate those conversations and diffuse some of that tension when
they're trying to just get through this.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
That's a big issue, and it doesn't it's it often
is around finances because that is, you know, a fear.
But there's you asked me before about assessments. There's one
specifically called a SCARF assessment by David Rock, which is
SCARF stands for status, certainty, autonomy, relatedness, and fairness, and
those are all those are all threats to we all
feel in different ways, and divorce usually you feel all
(24:50):
of them and scarcity. You know, status a lot of
times is how how you're how you're feeling within your marriage.
It can be your status within your marriage, something's changed
or to your point, say a woman's worked at home
and she has left a job and she's not earning
is what she did before. She feels that he has
more status than her in that relationship. How does that
(25:12):
play out? That creates a power dynamic? Your certainty? Where
am I going to live next year? I'm going to
be in my house, So we assess all that, my autonomy.
I don't feel like I have a voice in this situation.
I don't I don't make the money. How how am
I gonna How am I going to survive after this
divorce createdness? Well, what's going to happen? You know if
our friendships change? Someone someone you know, someone decides they're
(25:34):
going to be his friend and not my friend. How
does that? There's These are all careers and fairness, which
is in divorce, you know, kind of a four letter word.
It's not there's, it's degrees of fairness or my interpretation
of fairness. So as a divorce coach, we work on
what all those things mean, and then we work on,
you know, assessing what your triggers are. If you're going
(25:56):
to have that really difficult conversation. You know this person
better than anybody on the planet. They know how to
push your buttons. Yeah, so what are those hot buttons?
And we can work on how to how to get
through that tough conversation. You say something and I get
angry right away. I'm not going to I'm that's done.
That's not going to work. But if I can say, Okay,
(26:17):
you know what, I hear this is really important to you.
Can you help me understand why you think X? You
know why you think why you think that you should
keep the house and I should go to an apartment,
whatever the question is, there's a way to keep it
civil and nonviolent communication skills so that you can at
least have a conversation about it.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, I think those skills. They're so important. I try
to teach with my son and daughter who are just
learning that they can push each other's buttons really.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Well, like like nobody can set always well.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
And it's just interesting because you know, like it's like okay,
like how you respond is going to have an impact
on whether this happens again or not. It's just funny
because you're right, this is somebody that you've lived with,
that you've loved and known for a long time. But
if you're able to diffuse things and come back to yeah, okay,
I heard you.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
I heard you, I hear I hear it's really important
to you. Instead of getting really angry, you work on
ear statement which is empathetic, attentive and I'm not gonna
remembhere they are right now, but different forms of communication.
Oh and respectful. So I'm going to get this text message.
I could read it, I could read into it. It
could make me angry or crazy, you know what. I
could just let it sit on my desk. I can
(27:34):
really think about it. I can think about how to
thought fairly respond to not escalate the situation. And those
are kind of you know, the skills that we work on.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, and those skills are so like think you mentioned before,
they're universal skills. These can help you in other areas
of your life as well as you're going through this.
I think those are ones that you could take with
you and remember absolutely as you're new navigating you know,
your new situation, your new social life, all of those
things that come up, and I think that can be
really really helpful.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
You work with a lot of women.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
How do you feel like do you feel like any
gender dynamics aside from potentially being the lower earning spells
in some relationships or maybe having less you know, financial confidence,
have you seen any other ways that like the gender
dynamics show up in your work or do you work
with men as well.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
I work with men as well. I would say the
majority of my clients are women. And I don't know
if that's just because I'm a woman and they're you know,
sort of relate to me just easier thinking that that
they can speak to me in a different way. I
do think that there are there's certainly some course of
control issues that come up with women, you know that
you know, that's not a fiance thing, and that often
(28:40):
manifests self in fear of really like how do I
different different aspects of fear, worried about, you know, how
their kids are going to be sort of could be
used as tools in this divorced situation. That's a very
difficult one that I see often, and a lot of
it comes around on the perception of what power is
and and and women not feeling that they have that
(29:04):
their voice is heard, and how how to effectively communicate
their position without being you know, for lack of a
better word, bullied.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, So I think that's that's a tricky, and that's
and that's tough, and I think, yeah, especially when there's
when there's children involved, when there's fear, when there could
be potential you know, real abuse, Like I think those
those situations having somebody that you can you know, you
can speak to or relate to, it's so important. And
I don't know, I mean, maybe this is another area
where there could be potential career opportunities for men going
(29:34):
into this space, because I do feel like there's there's
a lot of need for support for people who are
going through divorce, men and women, you know, to kind
of talk with somebody and learn some of those skills
that maybe we haven't all learned necessarily or have it
in our toolbox to use. So super important work that
you're doing. Can you share any stories anonymously, of course,
(29:56):
about any times that a transformation with a client has
really stuck with you.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Sure, that's a great question. Recently I had a client
who was very stuck and it was actually in his
position and really felt that there was this just this
tension that there was unresolved for three years with ex
wife and they couldn't communicate and they knew that they
wanted to get divorced, and it was just a simple
(30:21):
question of asking him, you know, like, well, what would
it look like if you if you thanked her and
you appreciated what she has done and you just lay
down the sword and stop having this expectation that's you know,
you're you're already you're already looking to change things. But
we talked about you know, what do you want that
to look like? Afterwards? And it stopped him in his
tracks because he'd gotten so so dug in, deep in
(30:47):
this being his enemy in a way, and because he
had mentioned numerous times, you know, she's a great mom
and she's all these great things, like what if you
recognize that and that doesn't go away? What if what
if you just lay down the sword? Yeah, And it
was I couldn't believe. I received an email from later
that evening and he said, I had this great talk
with her and you know, we related in a way
(31:08):
and we just we put down the I put down
my armor and had great talk with my kids. So
that's one that was that was really good. Yeah for me. Wow,
that's a simple question. And I think, you know a
lot of what we try to do as divorce coaches
is very actively listen to what someone is saying and
what they're what they're saying that they're not saying, what's
what's really deep in there? And the conflict for him
(31:30):
is he's feeling. You know, he was feeling no matter
what he said, he wasn't heard. So it became so
combative and just like what have you stop competing?
Speaker 3 (31:39):
What do you just stop?
Speaker 4 (31:41):
So? Right?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, no, And naturally the first thing thought wouldn't be
to you know, to acknowledge her and hear her.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
She's not listening to you.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
It's okay, Well, you know it's never going to change.
So I think that that is just such a different
perspective and a different outlook to share with somebody. And
I think that's why it could be the transformation happen
so quickly and it doesn't take you. It could take
one call or something that could really change, you know,
the way the course of a relationship goes. So that's
thank you for sharing that. I think that's really I
(32:12):
think that that's an interesting way to look at it.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
And you're right.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
I think a lot of times our human brains want
to be right, they don't want to be happy.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Yeah, you get programmed that way and again to win.
And so but.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
What if happiness or maybe peace is a better choice.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
That's gonna take some work. You're gonna have to do
some you're gonna have to do some work with your mind.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
Especially in divorce and someone who's been divorced, you know,
and I see my ex and our daughter graduated recently
from business school, and we're all together and your kids
are watching you. You know, your kids, if you have
children in there in this relationship, they they are seeing
how you're handling something that's really difficult. And if you
have the ability to put them and make them the
(32:57):
north star of this process, then every decision you make,
every comment that you make, you know, if you can
bring that back to if my kid were going to
read this like if some you know I am, I'm
you know, I want to do this the right way
for my children so that when they go out in
the world, they're okay with us being a horse there.
You know, they know that we love them, They know
(33:19):
that we did X, Y, and Z to make sure
that they felt secure. And a lot of times that
shift away from this person's enemy and I got to
win this and focusing on what's really important can drive
a whole different set of decisions.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, So, what are some signs if somebody is listening
and they feel like they might be ready, like to
begin coaching or are in the right space to benefit
from your support. Where do you think that person what
are some signs that they would be in that space?
Speaker 4 (33:48):
I think ideally it's great to get someone who's really
just trying to figure it out, right, because a lot
of times before you hire an attorney, because that's everyone
thinks that's the first thing you need to do. Like
what kind of divorce do you want? You know, if
if you if you've been married for two years and
you don't have a lot of assets and kids, you
can get divorced online. You know, there there people don't
know that there are all these different processes. You know,
(34:10):
how much money you want to spend on your vorse?
What do you want it to look like? What? You know?
So a real conversation at the beginning is great. If
someone is also very you know, questioning their ability to
get through a situation, they feel overwhelmed. They they don't know,
you know, therapy is great and and and that's that's
(34:30):
a wonderful compliment to what I do. It's very different.
You know a lot of therapy is looking backwards, you know,
but they're now ready to take that next step and
get through it. And what do I need? And who
do I need on my team again, the you know,
the kitchen remodeling, you know what, what excepts do I need?
And what pop of attorney do I want? What questions
do I ask an attorney? How do I pick a mediator?
(34:51):
These are all things we talk about.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, No, those are very helpful, and I think there's
a lot of times where people start with the you know,
I need to go this, you know, hip of an attorney,
I need to do this, and they might not really
know what they should be doing or what to expect
in that process.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
So I do think that and they can create more
conflict by doing that.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
So even if we have a conversation like, hey, they've
made up their mind, but how do I tell my spouse? Right?
That's that's another thing we'd work on. You know, how
do you how do you set the tone? How do
you how do you how do you create this to
be the best scenario it can be? Given this incredibly
difficult and stressful.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Yeah, well, thank you so much for coming on that.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
It was really interesting to learn more about what you
do and how you got into this work, and just
about about this this space in general. I think it's
you know, it is a huge Obviously it's a huge
financial decision, has a big financial impact on people.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
But it is something that you know, is is very common.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
And a lot of people go through it, but a
lot of people go through it with no support, no help,
no idea, you know. And so to know that there's
resources out there, I think are very very helpful. How
can people find you if they want to get on
you know, your newsletter or learn more about you.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
I have a web site called step Up with Liarly
and that is a little play on me being the
stepmother of children as well as stepping up into your
you know, being your best self or this process. So
Step Up with Lyraley is my website. My instagram is
step Up Underscore with Liraly, and I do have a
blog on my website with different you know, different aspects
(36:21):
of non violent communication, different tools, different aspects of the
divorce process.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Thank you so much for shaying that. We'll include that
all in the show notes. And if you're looking yeah
to reach out, definitely look at her website, follow her online,
or if you're looking for more of those non violent
communication techniques. This doesn't necessarily just apply to people who
are going through divorce. This can be really helpful for
a lot of people. If you're having situations at work
or in any other area of your life where you
want to be able to communicate better, negotiate, get things done.
(36:54):
I think that can all be very very helpful. So
thank you so much Liarly for coming on this.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Show, thank you for having me, And yes I do
I have a lot of those tools in my blogs,
a lot of your statements, Biff, emotional management, you know,
understanding conflict styles. That's almosted there.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah, I think the more we learn about this, the
more resources you have. I think it'll just put us
all in a better position to recognize things in ourselves,
recognize you know, how we could communicate better. And I
think a lot of things can change even if no
one else is out there.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Doing the work.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
If you are doing the work, a lot of times
things can go a lot smoother.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
So definitely check that out.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
And also if you're looking for more resources on you
know your personal finance, so your you know your mindset development,
please head over to Misty Lynch dot com.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
You can grab a copy.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Of my book or find other episodes of the podcast
where I talk with other entrepreneurs who are out there
in their businesses, helping other people in the world with
problems that they felt needed to be solved just a
little bit better. So thank you so much for joining
and we'll talk again next week.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Thanks so much, Misty, thank.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
You for joining us on another insightful episode of Demist
Buying Money. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate,
and leave a review. Stay tuned for more engaged conversations
on our next episode, and remember knowledge is the key
to financial empowerment.
Welcome to the Demistifying Money podcast, where each week you
will hear unforgettable conversations with expert guests about success, money, business,
and small steps you can take to elevate your life
and wealth. Now here's your host, Misty Lynch.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, thank you so much for joining me for this
episode of Demistifying Money. I'm your host, Misty Lynch, and
today my guest is Liarley Spongberg. She's a divorce coach
and the owner of Step Up with Lyarley, who combines
professional training and real life experiences to help guide her
clients through one of life's hardest decisions.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Lyarley, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
This episode of Demistifying Money with Misty Lynch is proudly
sponsored by Soundview Financial Advisors. Visit www dot Soundview financial
Advisors dot com to learn more.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So, when you were in your thirties, you decided to
leave your marriage and start over as a single mom.
Tell me a little bit about how that decision has
changed your life and brought you to this point today
where you're helping other people navigate divorce.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Well, I married when I was young, certainly for the
time I was in my I was twenty four when
I got married, and I had two great kids, have
two great kids, started a business which was successful, and
just felt my marriage is very hollow, and it was not.
There was just something that was really off and it
took a lot of courage to make that decision, and
(01:31):
when I went through it, it was pretty high conflict.
It took a long time, and there were not a
lot of resources out there other than you know, sort
of hiring an attorney and sort of muddling my way
through it. After that, I a few years after I
got divorced, I was lucky enough to find someone else.
I got remarried and blended a family of six, so
(01:53):
I raised six kids, and once once they were really
out of the nest, I realized how much my divorce
had impacted me and how much I thought about it
sort of in the back of my mind, and it
influenced a lot of things in my life. I decided
to really dig into that, and once I did, I
realized that I felt there was a lot wrong with
(02:15):
a divorce process and wanted to figure out how to
make a change, and researched life coaching, which I am
certified in and then found Divorce Coaches Academy where I
trained as a certified Alternative Dispute Resolution divorce coach.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
So before you left, you mentioned that you had a
business that was successful.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
What were you doing before?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Have you always been an entrepreneur, had that kind of
entrepreneurial spirit or were you working for a company. But
it sounds like you had your own money coming in
before you decided to divorce. Did that have an impact
on your ability to make this decisions?
Speaker 4 (02:50):
That's a great question. I did. I was a graphic
designer by training, and I had moved a few times
with my ex husband for his job. In doing so,
left a job that I really loved as a graphic designer,
which compelled me to start a baby blanket company called
Little Moon Jumper, which is still in an existence, which
(03:10):
I've had for nearly thirty years, and that was my
own baby. I still have it and it has it.
Did it gave me some confidence to go out and
be on my own knowing I had that?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So your approach is very emotionally attuned, which I think
is very helpful for people going through this. But what
does that mean in practice? For somebody that's going through
a divorce.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Well, there are a lot of factors that play into divorce.
It depends sort of wherever you are on the spectrum,
if you're trying to figure out if that's the right
course for you, you know, if you're in the middle of it,
or if you're even if post divorce. There are so
many emotions that need to be processed, and one of
the issues that really comes up the divorce coaches can
(03:53):
help with is managing your emotions in the process. And
I'm really a conflict solutions specialists because divorce is full
of conflict. Even the kindest divorces, conflicts come up parenting
plans and financial issues and being able to have emotional
intelligence and approach these conflicts as problems to be solved
(04:17):
and opportunities to come up with a solution. It's the
best way to keep things civil. And there's skills that
you can be taught.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Do you work with one person or do you work
with couples one person?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
One person?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
So typically typically I mean I prefer to work in mediation.
The goal is to try to change change a big
there's a big shift to try to change divorce processes
from litigation into mediation, and in mediation, a mediator needs
to be a neutral party, so they are not there
for one individuals. Coach really can help someone with emotional management,
(04:53):
as I mentioned, as well as a lot of other
skills for negotiating and strategizing.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
That's interesting and that makes sense because I feel like
at this point when you come in and also you've
mentioned your life coaching skills, where I think a lot
of people don't realize how much one person can change
the dynamic in any conversation or relationship without having to
make somebody else change or having to try to force
your will on somebody. So I think that's interesting because
(05:18):
a lot of times I've talked to people who are in,
you know, high conflict situations, whether it's at work or
at home, and they want the other person to just
change and just realize all the mistakes they're making everything bad,
and you know deep down that that you can't.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
That's a great that's a great point, and that is
that is something a lot of people run up against
in a few ways. One is typically people in the
past have thought the first thing I need to need
to do when I get a divorces har An attorney
tough attorney depending on you know, I need somebody who's
a bulldog. I need someone who's going to stand up
for me and that that is that mentality to go
and win. And a lot of times people are expecting
(05:58):
to have this emotional justification moment in the court system.
It doesn't it doesn't exist. There's no opportunity to go
share your story and say, hey, he's a bad guy,
she's you know, she did this, she did that. It
doesn't work that way. So you're absolutely right. If one
person can learn how to communicate it effectively, uh and
strategize on how to have these conversations and stay in control,
(06:22):
then the whole dynamic can shift.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I think that's that could be so helpful. And I
think it's important for people to consider where they might
need support in coaching, just like any other sport, any
other skill that they're trying to learn that maybe they
feel like they're you know, confused about or too too
invested in it to really see clearly. I think that's
where a coach can really help, even if it's just
asking questions differently and you use different concepts and tools
(06:49):
in your practice.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Can you talk a little bit about those school.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Those those types of you know, approaches and tools that
you use with your clients.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Sure, depending on sort of where we are on the process.
And I'm also trained as a pre mediation divorce coach,
which is preparing people specifically for the mediation process. One
of the big one of the most important things in negotiating,
negotiating in a divorce is really understanding what your interests
are instead of your position. People get very stuck on, Hey,
(07:19):
I need I need to stay in my house. Well,
that might might not make financial sense, you know, in
uncovering the reasons why I need to be I really
want my kids to stay in the same school district.
That's the difference, that's the interest versus getting really stuck
on a position. And so we work on tools. We
assess values, you know, value threats, what what the concept
(07:43):
of what fair? Is the concept of you know, keeping
if you have children, keeping them at the center of
the focus of everything. We work on reality testing. What
do you want your divorce to look like? What do
you want your graduation for your kids to look like,
to look in the weed for your parents together, or
do you want to be on opposite sides of the stadium.
(08:03):
So you know what's your vision for how this plays out,
and then you're based on your values, like make sure
that the decisions you make are aligned with what is
the most important to you.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
I think that's important.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
A lot of people are thinking about right now, but
asking a question about how you want to feel at
an event twelve years from now or something like that
is probably something they haven't really gotten to or thought of,
and it might change their perspective and how they approach
things today. So I think that can be I think
that's important. I think that's really helpful. And I've seen
that recently divorce rates and I'm not sure. I think
(08:38):
I've heard this on the radio that they've been they've
been going up, especially in June. And I don't know
if that's a seasonal thing, if that's something that's happened
post pandemic or what's going on. But have you seen
any changes as far as the people you're talking to
and what you're hearing when it comes to divorce, or
if people are feeling like they've been stuck for a
number of years and feel like now they can maybe
(09:00):
do something.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Are you noticing any trends there or is this just
something that I might have heard.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
I don't know that I'm noticing any trends. I think,
you know, I think I think it's such a It's
a huge decision, apparently second only in stress level to
losing a child, So it is it is a huge decision,
and I think during the pandemic things definitely changed, really stuck.
There were not a lot of options. So maybe there
has been serializations that there are opportunities for people to
(09:27):
get out of unhappy relationships. But it's a huge decision,
no doubt, it's one of the biggest ones you can make.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I've definitely seen that where some people are actually living
with their ex and staying in the same spot for
financial reasons. Is that an area where you could potentially
help somebody who might be living with somebody that they
are separated from or are currently divorced from, because I
can't imagine how that goes.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Yeah, I mean personally, I can't imagine had that situation.
There are scenarios when people do nesting, which is which
is where if they have children, the children stay in
place in a home and the parents are the ones
that come and go, so the children have the security
of staying in their own home. I I don't know.
(10:14):
I haven't worked with anyone who's been in that case.
I think that was difficult.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, No, it's definitely something I've seen or you know,
I've talked to a few people where it's really Yeah,
the home is really driving a lot of the big
financial piece of it because they can't buy the other
person out. They can't, they don't want to sell it,
they don't know where.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
They would go, and so a lot of a lot of.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
The the issues do you send tend to, you know,
come back to money in certain ways. Obviously there's other
things that are factors in divorce, but that that big
financial piece of it is really important I think to
look at with somebody or talk to just to really
understand what's going on there and you know, how to
make things work in the best possible way with all
(10:57):
of these competing and conflicting goals. I'm curious what are
some of your divorce coaching. Seems like it's a relatively
new business. I don't know if I've heard of it
until fairly recently. You know, life coaching, other types of coaches,
therapists for marriage and stuff. But I think like your
your your line of work is relatively new. Uh, tell me,
(11:19):
what are some of the misconceptions that you see when
you introduce yourself to people and tell them what you do.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Well, I think people will always sort of what I
don't I've never heard of that. That's that's usually the
first thing that people say, and and I say, you know,
I what I tell them is that it's certainly a
new field. And really we are here to you know,
you're you want to you find if you are looking
for a divorce goo someone who's certified, who's trained, not
(11:45):
just has been divorced. That's not a qualification for being
a life coach, but someone who really has a framework
for how to help people through all this. And wait,
can you preat your question again, because I've forgotten exactly
what you asked me.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Oh, just the misconceptions and what people you know, what
they might think you do.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
I think they think that I give them advice, which
I don't. I'm not here. I'm not a I'm not
an attorney, I'm not a therapist. I'm really here to
help them move forward through process. It's really difficult. I
help them. You know, knowledge is power, so help them
understand the processes you know what, there are numerous ways
(12:24):
to get divorced, so people don't know that. They don't
ever think about putting together a divorce budget. How much
do you want to spend on your divorce? You know what?
What what's really important to you? What? What are? What are?
You know? How do I put a proposal together? How
do I how do I negotiate with someone? How do
I manage my you know, my emotions around someone who
i've I've clearly can't be married to now. So so
(12:46):
all these emotions are going to keep coming up. That's
not all of a sudden going to get better when
you're getting divorced. So I help, you know, I really
help them learn how to get through this difficult time
and ask a lot of questions because really people know
what they want. They just need the time to consider
what that is and base base their decisions on what's
(13:08):
the most important to them.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I think did people think that you must not be married?
Speaker 4 (13:14):
I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm sure because you're
definitely married.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You're married right now, right, And yeah, I think that when.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
I'm married, and I yeah, I think I think people
probably do think that I'm divorced. You know and never
got remarried.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Probably.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Oh it's interesting because I think that's one of the
things I love about entrepreneurship and business and how things change.
There's going to be a lot more jobs that are
not ones that we've commonly heard of or maybe we
didn't go to school or you know, as a little
girl dream about being what we end up doing. I
think that that's going to become more and more normal
because a lot of problems are really solved, and a
lot of innovation comes from seeing where there's where there's gaps,
(13:53):
where there's problems that don't have a current solution, or
that things are just harder than they need to be.
And so I think that that's something that we're going
to continue to see more of, even as you know,
technology and certain things take over. I do feel like
that human piece of it, that managing your emotions, that
talking to somebody who understands you, that's helping you kind
of see a more clarity around what you're doing. Those
(14:15):
jobs are going to become more and more important, I
think in this economy. So I do think that it's
something to you know, if you feel like there is
something that's.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Happened in your life that is.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
That you could maybe build from or help more people from.
I think it's just a really interesting thing. Not to
ignore it because you just you don't know how to
start because I think you just kind of back into
it with you know, like you did with the life coach,
and we've seen other coaches.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
How do they do it? What do they get? Oh,
they get certified?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Okay, and just continue to be curious because I think
a lot of us, you know, depends on who it
is that you feel compelled to help. But there's certainly
things out there that can make I think very you know,
lucrative careers. Would you mind talking about the business side
of it for you and how that's kind of changed
and evolved, and how you work with clients specifically, and
(15:07):
you know, kind of the packages or how would somebody
work with you if they were interested.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Sure, I happy address that. I also just wanted to
bring up something you said which I loved, which was
how important the human approaches and how important it is.
I mean, AI is never going to be able to
help someone through all this in a divorce and the
compassion and the empathy and learning these skills, Yeah, they're
incredibly important and divorce. But they also they're also so
(15:33):
beneficial in all aspects of your life, learning how to
you know, sort of control, control yourself and not let
your amigdala take over a conversation and lose it. You can't,
you can't make a rational decision when you're not thinking soundly.
I appreciate you saying that about the human touch and
bringing bringing experience and wanting to help people solve problems
(15:53):
that you've recognized that that you could mean it's it's been,
it's it's it's been an incredible experience for me to
help people and see them thrive through something where I've
just floundered. I had no idea, so so thank you
for bringing that up.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
And in terms of.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Working with clients, I work with clients. I have a
number of different packages and summer and I also offer
free console calls so people can see if we're a
good fit. So that's always, you know, sort of step
number one. And then if they're trying to figure things out,
I off for packages of three and six. Then also
one that's very much focused on pre mediation, which is
(16:30):
a package of eight sessions with very specific, very specific
goals in mind and trying to get things done in
a certain timeframe.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So pre mediation I've talked to some people, and I
know that from my perspective I've seen I haven't talked
to too many people where mediation worked very well. And
it might be just because I don't think people understand
what when it's the right fit when it's not. And
you said that divorce is kind of moving that way
direction versus litigation. So what can what should some people
(17:01):
think about in that pre mediation phase so that they
actually use it for what it's meant for and take
advantage of that process, because I feel like some people
maybe don't understand what that process is and kind of
feel like they're wasting money and time and then they
end up just hiring a lawyer eventually anyway because they
(17:22):
kind of didn't go through that process, right.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Can you explain that a little bit more to me?
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Sure? So the best way to describe it is that
you want to be as informed as possible. One of
the women that train me uses the analogy of you
aren't going to remodel your kitchen without plans and you
aren't going to hire You aren't going to hire electrician
to put your tiles in so you want a team
that is very specific. You want experts in what they're doing.
(17:50):
And in mediation, you're preparing to negotiate. And negotiation is
basically giving up something you want for something you want more.
So in order to do that, you need to determine
what is important to you. You need to determine what's
most important to you. And in mediation you're allowed you
have the opportunity to agree to what works for both you,
(18:12):
your partner, and your children. If you go to court
and you go to litigation, there's state mandates, there's one
that's really they're not interested in you, they're not interested
in your family. You might get a family judge who
has had a fight with his kid that morning and
shows up and they don't care. So in mediation you
have an opportunity to really be the CEO of your
own divorce, and that's really the goal of mediation. You
(18:36):
do want to have often a consulting attorney. You might
need a CDFA, you might need a realtor to help
you sell your house. So you put together a team
of professionals that are experts in what they do to
help you get through this with the least amount of
chaos and save money. It sounds counterintuitive often to have
a team, but if you're strategically asking in the right questions,
(18:58):
you're not just hiring them to to solve every problem
that you have.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, because I feel like with mediation, like the goal
isn't to win, it's to agree right on an outcome.
And so if you feel like I'm never going to
agree with this person, mediation is going to be difficult
unless you have somebody telling you this is what we
need to do. This is some of the things that
we should think about pre ahead of time, instead of
going into it just thinking of somebody will they'll just
(19:24):
agree with me and know that I'm right, which is.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Which is rarely gonna happen, really gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, And I think it's important what you said about
the court system and how sometimes they might not care
or they might have a bias.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Or whatever is going on, Like it is not there.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
It's not their job to care. It's their job to
execute the law. And and that's that's really where where
family courts can really fail people and their decision. You're
giving up your decision making process and that that's that's
a big thing to do. You're you're these are decisions
in a divorce that you live with for the rest
of your life.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, Now, I think that's interesting and I think it
is something that would definitely be worth while. You mentioned
having a free consultation if you really do need that
kind of clarity and understanding, because some people this might
be the first time they've ever even encountered this system.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
And I mean, no one knows what they're doing unless
they've been divorced, So for right, something something that anyone
knows how to do. So, you know, I like to
kind of think myself as a divorce doula, right, I've
I've been through it. I can I can answer a
lot of questions around it. If I don't know the answer,
I'm happy to point you in the direction of an
expert that does and put together a team so that
(20:31):
you can successfully get through something with and something that
you want to live with, something that makes sure you
children that you are, you know, creating a nurturing environment
in spite of the fact that you are living in
two different homes and what that looks like and what
those terms are, and maybe something that's really important to
you isn't as important to your soon to be ex Yeah,
and there's a trade off there.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
M Now, I think that's important, kind of figuring out
what your priorities are, knowing that you might have to
make some concessions. But yeah, I think that that is
important to know instead of going in with that kind
of really hoping for hoping for everything to work out
your way, which just may not.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
No, it's not going to ever go. You're not going
to get everything you want. But that doesn't mean, you know,
like the Rolling Stones song, but but you can get
you can. You know, if you learn how to negotiate
properly and you learn you learn some tactical strategic skills
and how to again manage your emotions and keep your cool,
and you know what you're working towards you, you can
(21:34):
effectively negotiate for yourself.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Do you have any tools or any times where you've
talked to somebody who really has never managed the finances
at all and feel like that is one of the
things that might be keeping them in a situation that's
no longer good for them.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Yes, And I think I would say typically that's women
in general, that women have had either little input or
limited access, not not because of any any wrongdoing, but
just not you know, that hasn't been sort of the
role in their family and are scared of that. And
sometimes sometimes it's as simple as as letting them, you know,
(22:12):
helping them understand that child support and spousal support are
actually state formulas, so they're again knowledge putting people at ease,
like you're going to get get this, and then you
can put them in touch with someone like you does
you know, financial planning who really can help them understand
what their next steps would look like after the border.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Settlement, and a lot of times with the financial end
of it, I have seen, you know, we're people, and
I know that this is something that you've worked with
and are sort of like with coercive control and trauma
that maybe for no fault of their own, they've been
kind of kept outside of the financial picture, or they've
been you know, deceived or and so I feel like
that is something that I think some courts, some states
(22:55):
are starting to recognize. But it is something that you know,
I think causes a lot of shame, a lot of guilts,
a lot of different feelings when it comes up.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
But as you said, it is important to.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Have those kind of resources to know that this is
how it is looked at. These are state formulas like
you mentioned and things like that, because some people may
really just not understand or no feel like maybe there's
something else that's hiding, but they would never know how
to figure that out, and so those are sometimes where
it's just really sad situations. I love working with couples
because I feel like when we get the whole financial
(23:25):
picture kind of out there, I think it does resolve
some conflicts in a marriage talking about the money together,
even if one person is taking the lead on the
income earning or the spending or the budgeting. I think
it is so it's so helpful when there is a
clear picture, right, because that can be a cause for
a lot of conflict and communication issues that can I
(23:46):
know they say money is one of the leading.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Causes of divorce. I'm not sure if it really is.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I think a lot of times it's communication and conflict
and other things that kind of money takes the blame for.
But I haven't had anybody really say I left my
husband because he lost his job, or I left my
wife because she didn't make enough money, Like it's usually
something else. So how do you help people with it
when it comes to communication when when you're dealing with
(24:11):
people that you know they're kind of in a situation
that's really bringing out the worst in maybe how they're
feeling or what they want to say, or maybe there's anger.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Or you know, fear.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
How do you how do you help people kind of
navigate those conversations and diffuse some of that tension when
they're trying to just get through this.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
That's a big issue, and it doesn't it's it often
is around finances because that is, you know, a fear.
But there's you asked me before about assessments. There's one
specifically called a SCARF assessment by David Rock, which is
SCARF stands for status, certainty, autonomy, relatedness, and fairness, and
those are all those are all threats to we all
feel in different ways, and divorce usually you feel all
(24:50):
of them and scarcity. You know, status a lot of
times is how how you're how you're feeling within your marriage.
It can be your status within your marriage, something's changed
or to your point, say a woman's worked at home
and she has left a job and she's not earning
is what she did before. She feels that he has
more status than her in that relationship. How does that
(25:12):
play out? That creates a power dynamic? Your certainty? Where
am I going to live next year? I'm going to
be in my house, So we assess all that, my autonomy.
I don't feel like I have a voice in this situation.
I don't I don't make the money. How how am
I gonna How am I going to survive after this
divorce createdness? Well, what's going to happen? You know if
our friendships change? Someone someone you know, someone decides they're
(25:34):
going to be his friend and not my friend. How
does that? There's These are all careers and fairness, which
is in divorce, you know, kind of a four letter word.
It's not there's, it's degrees of fairness or my interpretation
of fairness. So as a divorce coach, we work on
what all those things mean, and then we work on,
you know, assessing what your triggers are. If you're going
(25:56):
to have that really difficult conversation. You know this person
better than anybody on the planet. They know how to
push your buttons. Yeah, so what are those hot buttons?
And we can work on how to how to get
through that tough conversation. You say something and I get
angry right away. I'm not going to I'm that's done.
That's not going to work. But if I can say, Okay,
(26:17):
you know what, I hear this is really important to you.
Can you help me understand why you think X? You
know why you think why you think that you should
keep the house and I should go to an apartment,
whatever the question is, there's a way to keep it
civil and nonviolent communication skills so that you can at
least have a conversation about it.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, I think those skills. They're so important. I try
to teach with my son and daughter who are just
learning that they can push each other's buttons really.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Well, like like nobody can set always well.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
And it's just interesting because you know, like it's like okay,
like how you respond is going to have an impact
on whether this happens again or not. It's just funny
because you're right, this is somebody that you've lived with,
that you've loved and known for a long time. But
if you're able to diffuse things and come back to yeah, okay,
I heard you.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
I heard you, I hear I hear it's really important
to you. Instead of getting really angry, you work on
ear statement which is empathetic, attentive and I'm not gonna
remembhere they are right now, but different forms of communication.
Oh and respectful. So I'm going to get this text message.
I could read it, I could read into it. It
could make me angry or crazy, you know what. I
could just let it sit on my desk. I can
(27:34):
really think about it. I can think about how to
thought fairly respond to not escalate the situation. And those
are kind of you know, the skills that we work on.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, and those skills are so like think you mentioned before,
they're universal skills. These can help you in other areas
of your life as well as you're going through this.
I think those are ones that you could take with
you and remember absolutely as you're new navigating you know,
your new situation, your new social life, all of those
things that come up, and I think that can be
really really helpful.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
You work with a lot of women.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
How do you feel like do you feel like any
gender dynamics aside from potentially being the lower earning spells
in some relationships or maybe having less you know, financial confidence,
have you seen any other ways that like the gender
dynamics show up in your work or do you work
with men as well.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
I work with men as well. I would say the
majority of my clients are women. And I don't know
if that's just because I'm a woman and they're you know,
sort of relate to me just easier thinking that that
they can speak to me in a different way. I
do think that there are there's certainly some course of
control issues that come up with women, you know that
you know, that's not a fiance thing, and that often
(28:40):
manifests self in fear of really like how do I
different different aspects of fear, worried about, you know, how
their kids are going to be sort of could be
used as tools in this divorced situation. That's a very
difficult one that I see often, and a lot of
it comes around on the perception of what power is
and and and women not feeling that they have that
(29:04):
their voice is heard, and how how to effectively communicate
their position without being you know, for lack of a
better word, bullied.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, So I think that's that's a tricky, and that's
and that's tough, and I think, yeah, especially when there's
when there's children involved, when there's fear, when there could
be potential you know, real abuse, Like I think those
those situations having somebody that you can you know, you
can speak to or relate to, it's so important. And
I don't know, I mean, maybe this is another area
where there could be potential career opportunities for men going
(29:34):
into this space, because I do feel like there's there's
a lot of need for support for people who are
going through divorce, men and women, you know, to kind
of talk with somebody and learn some of those skills
that maybe we haven't all learned necessarily or have it
in our toolbox to use. So super important work that
you're doing. Can you share any stories anonymously, of course,
(29:56):
about any times that a transformation with a client has
really stuck with you.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Sure, that's a great question. Recently I had a client
who was very stuck and it was actually in his
position and really felt that there was this just this
tension that there was unresolved for three years with ex
wife and they couldn't communicate and they knew that they
wanted to get divorced, and it was just a simple
(30:21):
question of asking him, you know, like, well, what would
it look like if you if you thanked her and
you appreciated what she has done and you just lay
down the sword and stop having this expectation that's you know,
you're you're already you're already looking to change things. But
we talked about you know, what do you want that
to look like? Afterwards? And it stopped him in his
tracks because he'd gotten so so dug in, deep in
(30:47):
this being his enemy in a way, and because he
had mentioned numerous times, you know, she's a great mom
and she's all these great things, like what if you
recognize that and that doesn't go away? What if what
if you just lay down the sword? Yeah, And it
was I couldn't believe. I received an email from later
that evening and he said, I had this great talk
with her and you know, we related in a way
(31:08):
and we just we put down the I put down
my armor and had great talk with my kids. So
that's one that was that was really good. Yeah for me. Wow,
that's a simple question. And I think, you know a
lot of what we try to do as divorce coaches
is very actively listen to what someone is saying and
what they're what they're saying that they're not saying, what's
what's really deep in there? And the conflict for him
(31:30):
is he's feeling. You know, he was feeling no matter
what he said, he wasn't heard. So it became so
combative and just like what have you stop competing?
Speaker 3 (31:39):
What do you just stop?
Speaker 4 (31:41):
So? Right?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, no, And naturally the first thing thought wouldn't be
to you know, to acknowledge her and hear her.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
She's not listening to you.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
It's okay, Well, you know it's never going to change.
So I think that that is just such a different
perspective and a different outlook to share with somebody. And
I think that's why it could be the transformation happen
so quickly and it doesn't take you. It could take
one call or something that could really change, you know,
the way the course of a relationship goes. So that's
thank you for sharing that. I think that's really I
(32:12):
think that that's an interesting way to look at it.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
And you're right.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
I think a lot of times our human brains want
to be right, they don't want to be happy.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Yeah, you get programmed that way and again to win.
And so but.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
What if happiness or maybe peace is a better choice.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
That's gonna take some work. You're gonna have to do
some you're gonna have to do some work with your mind.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
Especially in divorce and someone who's been divorced, you know,
and I see my ex and our daughter graduated recently
from business school, and we're all together and your kids
are watching you. You know, your kids, if you have
children in there in this relationship, they they are seeing
how you're handling something that's really difficult. And if you
have the ability to put them and make them the
(32:57):
north star of this process, then every decision you make,
every comment that you make, you know, if you can
bring that back to if my kid were going to
read this like if some you know I am, I'm
you know, I want to do this the right way
for my children so that when they go out in
the world, they're okay with us being a horse there.
You know, they know that we love them, They know
(33:19):
that we did X, Y, and Z to make sure
that they felt secure. And a lot of times that
shift away from this person's enemy and I got to
win this and focusing on what's really important can drive
a whole different set of decisions.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, So, what are some signs if somebody is listening
and they feel like they might be ready, like to
begin coaching or are in the right space to benefit
from your support. Where do you think that person what
are some signs that they would be in that space?
Speaker 4 (33:48):
I think ideally it's great to get someone who's really
just trying to figure it out, right, because a lot
of times before you hire an attorney, because that's everyone
thinks that's the first thing you need to do. Like
what kind of divorce do you want? You know, if
if you if you've been married for two years and
you don't have a lot of assets and kids, you
can get divorced online. You know, there there people don't
know that there are all these different processes. You know,
(34:10):
how much money you want to spend on your vorse?
What do you want it to look like? What? You know?
So a real conversation at the beginning is great. If
someone is also very you know, questioning their ability to
get through a situation, they feel overwhelmed. They they don't know,
you know, therapy is great and and and that's that's
(34:30):
a wonderful compliment to what I do. It's very different.
You know a lot of therapy is looking backwards, you know,
but they're now ready to take that next step and
get through it. And what do I need? And who
do I need on my team again, the you know,
the kitchen remodeling, you know what, what excepts do I need?
And what pop of attorney do I want? What questions
do I ask an attorney? How do I pick a mediator?
(34:51):
These are all things we talk about.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, No, those are very helpful, and I think there's
a lot of times where people start with the you know,
I need to go this, you know, hip of an attorney,
I need to do this, and they might not really
know what they should be doing or what to expect
in that process.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
So I do think that and they can create more
conflict by doing that.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
So even if we have a conversation like, hey, they've
made up their mind, but how do I tell my spouse? Right?
That's that's another thing we'd work on. You know, how
do you how do you set the tone? How do
you how do you how do you create this to
be the best scenario it can be? Given this incredibly
difficult and stressful.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Yeah, well, thank you so much for coming on that.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
It was really interesting to learn more about what you
do and how you got into this work, and just
about about this this space in general. I think it's
you know, it is a huge Obviously it's a huge
financial decision, has a big financial impact on people.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
But it is something that you know, is is very common.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
And a lot of people go through it, but a
lot of people go through it with no support, no help,
no idea, you know. And so to know that there's
resources out there, I think are very very helpful. How
can people find you if they want to get on
you know, your newsletter or learn more about you.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
I have a web site called step Up with Liarly
and that is a little play on me being the
stepmother of children as well as stepping up into your
you know, being your best self or this process. So
Step Up with Lyraley is my website. My instagram is
step Up Underscore with Liraly, and I do have a
blog on my website with different you know, different aspects
(36:21):
of non violent communication, different tools, different aspects of the
divorce process.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Thank you so much for shaying that. We'll include that
all in the show notes. And if you're looking yeah
to reach out, definitely look at her website, follow her online,
or if you're looking for more of those non violent
communication techniques. This doesn't necessarily just apply to people who
are going through divorce. This can be really helpful for
a lot of people. If you're having situations at work
or in any other area of your life where you
want to be able to communicate better, negotiate, get things done.
(36:54):
I think that can all be very very helpful. So
thank you so much Liarly for coming on this.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Show, thank you for having me, And yes I do
I have a lot of those tools in my blogs,
a lot of your statements, Biff, emotional management, you know,
understanding conflict styles. That's almosted there.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah, I think the more we learn about this, the
more resources you have. I think it'll just put us
all in a better position to recognize things in ourselves,
recognize you know, how we could communicate better. And I
think a lot of things can change even if no
one else is out there.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Doing the work.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
If you are doing the work, a lot of times
things can go a lot smoother.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
So definitely check that out.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
And also if you're looking for more resources on you
know your personal finance, so your you know your mindset development,
please head over to Misty Lynch dot com.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
You can grab a copy.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Of my book or find other episodes of the podcast
where I talk with other entrepreneurs who are out there
in their businesses, helping other people in the world with
problems that they felt needed to be solved just a
little bit better. So thank you so much for joining
and we'll talk again next week.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Thanks so much, Misty, thank.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
You for joining us on another insightful episode of Demist
Buying Money. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate,
and leave a review. Stay tuned for more engaged conversations
on our next episode, and remember knowledge is the key
to financial empowerment.
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