September 29, 2025 • 40 mins
Planning for elder care can be overwhelming, but understanding your options is key to protecting your loved ones and your finances. In this episode, Misty Lynch sits down with award-winning elder law and estate planning attorney Aaron Miller to break down the essentials of long-term care planning.
Here's what you'll learn:
Where to find Aaron Miller
Website: aaronmillerlaw.com
Facebook: @MillerLawOfficePLLC
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/aaronrmiller/
YouTube: @MillerLawOfficePLLCPlano
Where to find Misty
Websites:
Here's what you'll learn:
- When and how to start thinking about elder care for yourself or your family
- The main ways to pay for long-term care—including private pay, insurance, Medicaid, and VA benefits
- Pros and cons of long-term care insurance and what today’s policies actually cover
- Legal strategies for asset protection, including the use of trusts and planning around Medicaid requirements
- How to have productive, non-confrontational conversations with loved ones about future care needs
Where to find Aaron Miller
Website: aaronmillerlaw.com
Facebook: @MillerLawOfficePLLC
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/aaronrmiller/
YouTube: @MillerLawOfficePLLCPlano
Where to find Misty
Websites:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Demus Defying Money podcast, where each week
you will hear unforgettable conversations with expert guests about success, money, business,
and small steps you can take to elevate your life
and wealth. Now here's your host, Misty Lynch.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello, everyone, Thanks so much for joining me for this
episode of Demis Defying Money.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Today we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Planning for elder care, the payments, protecting people that we love,
and also having those conversations that we might tend to avoid.
I'm joined today by Aaron Miller. He's an award winning
elder law and estate planning attorney, and he's dedicated to
helping families with long term care. After starting his career
in corporate litigation, he shifted to helping people avoid the
(00:45):
high cost of long term care. And so I'm excited
to talk with him today because I think this is
something that's on a lot of people's minds, but sometimes
we don't really know where to go for help or
how to start this conversation that could be a little
bit sensitive.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
We are coming up to Q four, so we've got
the holidays coming up. We're going to be around our
loved one. So I thought it'd be a really good
time to talk with.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Aarin about some of the ways that we can make
this conversation a little bit more successful, a little easier,
and how we can actually, you know, protect our finances
when it comes to things like long term.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Care and eldercare. So, thank you Erin so much for
joining me today.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Yeah, Beskie, I appreciate you having me today. Thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
This episode of Demystifying Money with Miss dy Lynch is
proudly sponsored by Soundview Financial Advisors. Visit www dot Soundview
financial Advisors dot com to learn more.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
So, how did you so you were?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You started in corporate litigation, which I think all of
us who maybe dreamed about law school one day think about.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
You know, being in a courtroom, and but how did you.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Shift to elder elder law and why is this so
important to you?
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (01:55):
So, uh, my first job out of law school as a
clerk for the Tech Supreme Court. And then I went
to a very large international law firm based in California,
but our office was in Dallas, and I tell people
I used to make the world safe for the big
five accounting firms.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
And it was great.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
I enjoyed it, but it wasn't super super fulfilling. So
I went from that firm to another. I was still
doing litigation and finally went on my own. And then
one day I realized, while I love being in the
courtroom talking to jurys to making arguments, I hated all
the chest beating and the kind of uh, you know,
(02:35):
proven how tough you are before the stuff that happens
before the loss, before actually getting into the courtroom, and
it's just very rarely that we got into courtroom, and I.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Started looking around to uh. I didn't know what I
was gonna do.
Speaker 6 (02:47):
I knew I couldn't keep doing what I was doing
because I had started to become a really angry and
very bitter person.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Because my whole.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
My whole job is looking for looking for the fault,
so the criticizing somebody else's work, and I was finding
that that was coming home with me and I was
hanging out with my wife and taking out of my kids,
and I knew things were not going to go well
if I continued in that path.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
So I didn't know what I was going to do.
Wasn't sure I was going to stay in the law.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
But I eventually found a state planning and through that
I found elder law. Elder law is something that, well
a state planning answers a question of what happens if
you get sick and die. Elder law answers the question
what happens if you get sick and don't die. And
what I really loved about it is I really get
to help seniors and really make a difference in people's
(03:40):
individual people's lives. And kind of one of the other
reasons why I love what I do is I love
teaching people about the different options that they have for
care and how to get the government to help pay
for care. Because when I was much younger, my grandmother
had a heart attack and she went to the hospital.
(04:02):
This was back when it wasn't just like three days
in year out. She was there for quite a while
and then she came home and everything seemed good at first,
But after a certain period of time, my grandfather started
finding like she'd stuck her I don't know, her purse
in the freezer, or hit her keys behind the set
of books and the bookshelf, or I think at one
(04:23):
point she unscrewed her heating heating air return vent on
the floor and put her slippers or something in it.
It's just, you know, thing's quite right. And eventually he
had to put her in a nursing home. And I
don't really think there was a big difference between memory
care and nursing homes back then, but she was there
for the next ten years of her life.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
And what my grandfather did because he didn't know any different,
nobody told him.
Speaker 6 (04:48):
He just went and every month he wrote a check
or reached into his wallet and paid for her care
for ten years.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
And after a while, you know, they ran out of money.
He didn't really run out of money while she was alive,
but he after she passed.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
I think he was on his own for about three
or five years afterwards, and then he needed care. And
by the time he needed care, you know, there was
no money left. In fact, I think during his lifetime,
just after at some point he had to bring borders
in because he just didn't have enough money. So my dad,
my aunt, my uncle, when my grandfather needed care, had
(05:25):
to dip into their own pockets, their own savings, their
own retirement.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
And again because nobody.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
Told them about the different options that were available. And
that's something that that probably happened about twenty twenty five
years ago, and that's something we still feel today.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Yeah, and at.
Speaker 6 (05:43):
Some point my mother she had developed some memory issues
and she had to go into a nursing home memory
cares facility, excuse me. And I knew what to do
then because it's what I do now, But because she
hadn't planned, depending on where you go, you may be
able to get.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Medicaid benefits, and so we had to wait.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
But thankfully she had she had an inheritance, so we
were able to use that. But again, you know, they
had an opportunity to buy long term care insurance and I'm.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
A huge believer of it.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
Relatively not a lot of money, and they just decided
they couldn't afford at the times, which is unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
So, yeah, insurance coverages something I've talked with a lot
of people, and it is it's a tricky one. And
I have seen a lot of people, especially some clients,
who have long term care policies in force that they've
been paying on for years, but the premiums keep going up.
And when it comes to you know, if expenses are
going up and the budget is feeling tight, the things
(06:42):
that people tend to look at to cut would be
something like insurance because you're protecting against something that has
not happened, and so a lot of times people think
of that compared to the bills and other things. But
it is so important and I do think that more
conversations need to happen. But these are complex, confusing policies
with fewer care years around for some you know people,
and some of the policies I've seen that people have
(07:04):
you couldn't buy today because of the coverage. So it's
definitely an interesting area but going to become increasingly more
important as we have an aging population and more people
living longer and potentially needing some of these types of services.
So in your opinion, when should people start thinking about
(07:25):
elder care and what are the what are the main
ways to pay for it?
Speaker 6 (07:32):
Yeah, so I think people should pay should start thinking
about elder care. Honestly, long term care insurance or I
know that's a term of art for people that sell,
and what I mean by long term care insurance is
not like the traditional long term care insurance necessarily, but
anything that has a long term writer. So it could
be a whole life insurance policy or could be a
newye or something like that, something that will pay for care.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I usually tell people the best time to build.
Speaker 6 (07:55):
It's kind of like an oak tree, right, the best
time to plant a tree is twenty years ago.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
The next best time is today. So personally, I bought
long term care insurance on my mid thirties.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
It's younger than most people, that is, I.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Mean, I've been in I've been in this area for
quite a while.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
Yeah, but it's it's obviously cheaper the earlier you get it,
but it can raise premium. So it's yeah, you're right,
it's it's one of the things you got to kind
of look at.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, it's definitely important to look at.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
But that's you know, it's interesting because I have talked
to some people who maybe had a history of dimension
in their family or other where they they've seen what
you've seen, where you've the funds are depleted, where there's
this long, you know, decade long need at times that
feel very strongly about having these type of coverages because
it's something that they've lived.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
Through, absolutely, and it's it's often kind of like you said,
it's it's people who've who had those experiences are the
ones that are most I don't enthusiastic, may not be
the right word, but the most most act it's.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It's one of those things that's like a necessity, It's
like a you know, and I think that's happened with
people who've had life insurance payouts in their family, other
things like.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
That that sometimes if you lucky enough not to experience that,
right you don't, But for.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Some people it is. It is something that's in the
back of their mind, something that they may need someday. Also,
I'm working with a lot more you know, child free
couples or single, single people who are thinking what happens
to me? So when you're talking, you know, from a
from a legal point of view, what are some things
for people to think about if maybe you don't have
you know, oh my kids will take care of me,
(09:36):
or you know, some some clue as to what would
happen when you maybe can't make those decisions.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah. Absolutely, it's a good idea to plan ahead.
Speaker 6 (09:45):
So you want to you know, long term care insurance
or some form would be great, But you also want
to have your estate planning documents in place. So think
about who's going to make decisions for you if you
can't make your own financial or medical decisions that you know,
with a married couple, it's usually going to be spouse
and kids if they haven't.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
But if you don't have that, then it could be.
Speaker 6 (10:06):
Family members, cousins, sisters, brothers, it could be her nieces
and nephews.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
But it doesn't have to be somebody you're related to.
It could be if you've got a family friend.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
So I've seen clergy be a pointed Sometimes it's just
whoever you trust and.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Who's willing to take on that role.
Speaker 6 (10:25):
And if you don't have a natural connection like a
child or a spouse, then unfortunately might be a little
bit harder.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
But it's certainly important and it's worth It's worth.
Speaker 6 (10:34):
Handling it now when you're able to kind of make
some intelligent decisions on your own, versus down the road
when you might have to scramble right.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And I think that there is always that risk of
people who are taking advantage of people who maybe have,
you know, some diminished capacity. And so I'm always asking
my clients, and I've had some clients, you know, in
their fifties, who I'm like, who would be the person
for you? And they're like, oh, my best friend, she
would know everything, And they know exactly who would be
the person that they would trust in. So I said, okay,
(11:03):
we ought to make sure that this is legally documented
somewhere because they're not going to listen to best friend.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
No, nobody's going to listen to best friend.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
But I do think that that's something that we do,
we do tend to know. But I think, yeah, formalizing
that process is so important. I think it is something
that a lot of people are thinking about more often,
especially as we're living longer. They're seeing aunts, uncles, mom,
and dad, maybe living longer than they'd anticipate it, and
you know, those those expenses going up. But I wondered
(11:32):
if you could kind of break down the pros and
cons of these different you know, payment options. I know
you mentioned long term care, and then we've heard about
you know, private pay, which is basically you know, yeah,
your savings. But then I think there's some misconceptions about
medicaid and really what you know when that comes into
the picture and is it worth really you know, when
(11:53):
some people are saying.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
How do I get rid of it? Like what are
the risks there?
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (11:58):
Yeah, so kind of as alluded, there's three ways to
pay for care. You can private pay and that's great.
Because it gives you the most options if you've got
the money to make it work.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Fantastic.
Speaker 6 (12:09):
Now, for my grandmother, that's what my grandfather did, and actually, frankly,
that's what my grandfather did too, or my parents did
for my grandfather. But the thing is, once you run
out of money, then you lose your options.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
You could also have other people pay, so that's the
long term care insurance option.
Speaker 6 (12:26):
What I love about long term care insurance is it'll
help pay for not only nursing homes, but it'll help
pay for memory care, assisted living, and at home care.
It's quite frankly, nobody wants to go to a nursing home,
right and so I love those options.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
If you can get it.
Speaker 6 (12:42):
It used to be before COVID, you could get it
up until you're kind of your eighty two ish. After COVID,
I think it's not quite quite as old, and it
is dependent on your health at the time and things
like that. So you've got to look at that. If
you don't have enough money, or even if you do
have enough money but don't and you don't get long
term care insurance, we can look at government options, and
(13:04):
there's a few different ones. You've got a lot of
people here here Medicare and they think that will help
pay for long term care, and unfortunately it really won't.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
It'll pay for.
Speaker 6 (13:12):
Up to one hundred days. Then you have Medicaid and
we'll talk about that in a second, and then you
have VA benefits. So if you have a veterans who
served ninety days one day during a time of war,
it has a discharge other than dishonorable. You can get
some help to pay for assisted living, memory care, or
(13:32):
at home care. It'll also cover nursing home, but it's
usually not enough money. It's only about a couple thousand
h for that. But it is really helpful for assisted
living and memory care. But Medicaid is really how the
middle class pays for care. A lot of people think
you have to be dirt poor to get qualified, and
probably the government would prefer that, but they set certain
rules up that we follow, kind of like a CPA
(13:55):
or tax attorney follows income tax rules.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Right.
Speaker 6 (13:57):
There's certain things that you can recategorize, well, this isn't
really income, this is this, or there's a credit that
you can take or if you can't make it, maybe
it's not a credit, can take it that reduces your income,
but maybe it reduces your taxes. You know, there's different
rules that are set up, and so the same thing is,
we've got that for Medicaid. And it's maybe one of
(14:19):
the biggest misconceptions people have is if I go to
a Medicaid facility, it's just a terrible facility. I'm gonna
get substandard care, And that's not really the case in
my experience. What I found is nursing homes have an
optional whether or not they take Medicaid or not. Okay,
And if they do take Medicaid, it's a business decision
because you know, if you're private paying, it's possible that
(14:42):
person runs out of money then you have to kick
them out or do some other things. But if you've
got somebody on Medicaid, pretty much once they get on Medicaid,
is really unlikely that they're going to lose it unless
they maybe they get an inheritance or something like that.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
But it's.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
What I found is it's not whether or not the
nurse to accept Medicaid's who they hire to be the
person that does the the actual hands on care. So
you can find a really great nursing home. Maybe they
take Medicaid may that they don't. But you really got
to be careful because there's unfortunately, there's a lot of
turnover in these places because they don't really pay them
a lot of money, which is kind of shocking considering
(15:18):
how much money you know you as a patient end
up paying.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Yes, but it doesn't trickle down to.
Speaker 6 (15:23):
The people actually given the care unfortunately, and so you
really have to be on them. So just because the
nursing home is great today doesn't mean it's six months.
It may not be, so you really have to just
keep monitoring it. But again, if it's if it's a
great nursing home or not, it's not really dependent on.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
If it takes takes Medicaid.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
That's good for people to know, because I think there
is you know, there are different options, and I think
that there's definitely a lot more facility.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Options that we've seen. I mentioned before.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I'm going to one in my town to talk about
financial planning tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
And some of these places.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
They're like a college campus seems, where they offer so
many you know, activities and the food plan and all
of these things where this is like a It's an
interesting conversation that I'm having with some clients that are
looking at these places that they may want to move
into first, you know, for just having that community with
(16:18):
that escalation of care as.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
They age into it. It's really is it is it
changing everywhere?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
But because before, you know, like you mentioned a nursing home,
this was like a short term end of what type
of place, but now they're really kind of aging into.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
You know, a different, different level of care.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So these these are pretty expensive financial decisions to make
as far as you know what route you want to go.
But really interesting how that that's changing. What's your perspective
on the way that these facilities are starting to to
look and how they're getting clients and getting you know,
people to come live there.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
Yeah, there's I've been to a couple of places that
kind of remind me of being like a cruise ship
on land.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
They've got like a program director, they've got a lot
of things going on.
Speaker 6 (17:07):
And Yeah, some of these places that offer what's called
the continuum, their continuing care communities are called. So it
might start with independent living, so you go there because
you've got a lot of friends there or you have
an ability to make a lot of friends, and then
as you progress, they may have a nursing home component,
or may memory care, and so they can be very expensive.
(17:28):
But often what you might do is you pay a
deposit or you pay a large chunk of money and
then maybe you may pay a little bit monthly after that.
It just really depends on the place. But yeah, it's
it's really interesting another place one can get care. You
can't really get Medicaid for it. But there's a something
called the residential care home that's becoming more and more popular.
(17:50):
So if you just drove by it on the street,
this looks like a house, but what they've set it up,
so there may be i don't know, six to ten
residents in there and they'll have somebody that's with them
all the time, but it as more of a home
feel to it.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
So there's a lot of people that like that as well.
Speaker 6 (18:04):
So it's just there's lots of different options for people
on what type of care they can receive.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And I think that there's a lot of conversation too
around you know, like you mentioned before, people who want
to stay home and they want, you know, help or
they need assistants, but they need somebody to come into.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Their their home to deliver it there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Of caregiver burnout for people who maybe there was no
real long term care plan, so you know husband and wife,
Like you know, husband is the long term care plan,
our wife is the long term care plan. And then
they're burnt out and they're getting you know, not taking
care of themselves. So what are some options that people have,
you know, maybe if they do need if they start
(18:43):
to need help, but they feel like it's their responsibility
to do it themselves.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
How can somebody like you help those people who maybe.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Are looking for other options and how to pay for it,
if you know, if they feel like they're the default caregiver.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
Yeah, one of the biggest problems that I see is
usually it's the wife. The wife is taking care of
her husband all her life, and she just sees this
as the next iteration of that, and they get burnt
out of One of the things I try to tell
them is, you know what, I know, you're the one
that's taking care of them, but try at least once
(19:20):
a week for a couple hours, bring somebody else in
for respite care, whether that's you can, maybe somebody in
a family, maybe a church member, or maybe you can
pay for it and there's some options on that, but
you really need some time to yourself, whether that's you know,
going to the movies or getting your hair done and
maybe just going shopping or maybe just goes sitting in
the park for two hours. It's really important for your
(19:43):
mental health, for your physical health to have that separation sometimes,
and if your spouse cannot be by themselves, then then
bring somebody in to watch them and that way you
can go take care of yourself. It's kind of like
you know, when you get on an airplane, they tell
you to put the mask on yourself or they down
before you put it on other people, and that's kind
of the same.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, it's it's it's a good point.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
It is something that I've told people, you know, to
try to find room in the budget to to get help,
even if it's temper or just just for you know
a few hours, because a lot of times that caregiver
then you know, once you know, once you know, if
they're no longer a caregiver, or something happens to the
person that they were helping, then they might have needs
(20:27):
themselves where.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Their health is diminished.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Drops fast basically and financially, you know, struct So it's
it's super important and even I think like having things
organized and having help it is is one of those
things that is it's just really really important for everybody
to think about. But I want to talk more about,
you know, long term care insurance because I think this
(20:52):
is something like you mentioned with your family. Your grandfather
took care of your grandmother and then your parents have
to step in and help. But I know, I talked
to a lot of clients. None of them tell me
they want their kids to have to support them. Zero
percent have said no, I'll just depend on them. But
this is what this is what happens.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
So so you know, take me through it.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Yeah, yeah, this isn't the you know, the goal.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
But then eventually when when there's limited conversations and other options.
But I don't sell long term care insurance. I don't
sell insurance right now. I just do you know, the
financial planning and investment management. But I have, you know,
I definitely have reviewed policies and looked at them. But
I'm curious about, like your your take on what's out
there today and what you know what some of these
(21:34):
policies look like and who they might benefit.
Speaker 6 (21:38):
Yeah, so traditional long term care insurance was I use
it to lose it proposition. In other words, you'd pay
your money and if you did end up needing long
term care, then you lost the amount of money that
you paid. And that's actually that's what I personally have
because that's the older style of policies, and I understand
people are reluctant to do that, but it's kind of
(22:00):
like to me, it's kind of like homeowners insurance, Right,
you don't you don't pay your premium and then at
the end of the year, going, man, we didn't have
a fire last year, and really ticked off that I
wasted all that money.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Right, it's we're glad we didn't have the fire. To me,
it's kind of the same thing.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
But there are some newer products. They're they're hybrid products,
so they're based on uh, a whole life insurance policy
or a term life I'm sorry, whole life insurance polician
like an annuity and they have a long term care rider.
And so basically you can pay a lump sum maybe
and a monthly or an annual sum, or you can you
(22:34):
can pay a lump sum and sometimes that's it, or
maybe you just pay you know, a monthly or annual premium.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
But.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
It's it's they have provisions that if you don't end
up using it, then whatever you've spent or whatever you've
you some you have that can go to your benefici
race or maybe if you just part of it like
your beneficiary, so the way can you can still recapture
some of the funds that you've had, which is pretty cool.
But there are fewer uh fear providers of long term currence.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
So one of the problems that they had was they
were rating it.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
Insurance companies were rating it more like whole life insurance,
more like life insurance, right, And typically my understanding is
with life insurance, people change policies every few years, and
so they were kind of relying on that, and that
didn't happen with long term currence. Yeah, and so a
lot of companies that used to provide it no longer
do and so that's something you just want to, you know,
(23:29):
just be aware of. I don't think people were kicked
off of existing policies, but they're just not writing new.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Potises a lot of times, right the the you know,
the premiums would go up, but I think you know,
it's it's important like that you mentioned about the homeowner's
insurance because it is true like for a lot of
those policies, yes, nobody's upset that they didn't have one.
But if like in the user lose a case, like
say you stop paying it and you have a fire
next week, even if you paid for for twenty years.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
You're not covered anymore.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
So it is really really important before before, you know,
to to evaluate other options.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Maybe there is another option that you could switch.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
To that might be you know, better ors, but so
important to look at it. And it is interesting some
of those hybrid products and policies, and these products can
be complicated, you know, so I think it's definitely worth
making sure that you understand what you're buying when you're
looking at these types of insurance hybrid policies, but they
can be really helpful for people right in the right
(24:23):
situation that need, you know, need to make sure that
these things are covered well.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
I think one of the things that surprises people is
just the cost of care. I'm in Texas and our
average cost of careers around seven thousand, seventy five hundred dollars.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Some places.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
My parents lived in Alaska for a while, it could
be up to twenty five thousand a month.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
So California, I know, it's pretty expensive.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
New York is massachuse it's not cheap.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yeah, yeah, I think that really shocks people. Well, it is.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Shocking because I think a lot of times when we
think about our grandparents, our parents, like maybe they you know,
it was just timfering, you know, they maybe had a
nurse come by, or they had you.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Know, there's really not much that we can compare to.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
But I think the insurance companies realized it when a
lot of them got out of the business because they
couldn't brice it properly. Because the amount of expense and
need and care and just has skyrocket and the cost
of healthcare, so it is really hard to manage it
on your own. It is one of those things that's
now becoming something that's like and you know, you need insurance,
(25:31):
same like a like a home well all of these
things that are just that type.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Of loss is just too hard.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
So really really important to think about when somebody does
have a policy, what are the main benefits that they provide.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
So they're going to provide care, typically they're going to
have care available at home, so it might also pay
for respite care.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
It could pay for assists of living, memory care, long
nursing home care.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
So it's very, very broad. It's better than relying on Medicaid.
So because Medicaid, well, each state runs a little bit different.
I'm here in Texas. There's not a at home care benefit,
not really. There's kind of a little bit of one,
same with SIS living or member care. Not really member care,
but there is a little bit. It's mainly a full
on nursing home benefit. Now each state has different things.
(26:21):
I know New York there's some pretty broad rules on
what they'll will and won't pay for, for example.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
But it's one of those things where you really need to.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
Start thinking about it ideally before you before you need it.
We've been talking about long term care insurance. If somebody
can't qualify for long term care insurance, then one of
the things that I do is help set up a
special irrevocable trust for Medicaid planning, which is great. It'll
help us if you need a nursing home, but not
so great if you need some other other type of care,
(26:52):
which is why I prefer people getting long term care insurance.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
No, and I think there's a lot of you know,
a lot of people do have things like revocable trust
set up, but that's something that you can go in
and change and you know, yess out of. So you
mentioned setting up the irrevocable trusts, which are basically you're
moving that money out of your estate into the trust.
And so that's one of the key differences that I
think people think, oh, just put everything over there, kind
(27:19):
of not understanding what that might mean.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
As far as they're access to it.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
So what do you see as one of those you know,
when people do have to set it up, is it
usually because that is the best option available if they
can't get any other coverage.
Speaker 6 (27:31):
Yeah, if you can't get long term care insurance and
you're concerned about the cost of long term care, then
typically I believe in every state, at least in some
form or another, we can use an irrevocable trust. Now
it's a special trust, typical typical irrevocable trust. We're done
for state tax purposes. And so most of the folks
that were I don't think any of the folks I've
dealt with actually have an estate tax issue they need
(27:54):
to worry about, so we don't have to worry about those.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
So depending on kind of what state you're on.
Speaker 6 (27:59):
In a little bit of the philosophy the attorney putting together,
we don't have to worry about a lot of those
tiki taki I r S rules, And so you might
have the persons to be the trustee maybe, but they're
not gonna be a benefit beneficiary of the plan because
if they are, it's a kind of blasset. Again, each
state's different, and sometimes attorneys in a state, do you know.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
It's a little bit of an art, so they might
do a little bit differently.
Speaker 6 (28:25):
But yeah, it's also one of those things where ideally,
if you don't get long term care insurance, you talk
to an elder law attorney and they put you into
something that can help protect your assets five years before
you need care, because if you need care within that
five years, you can still apply for Medicaid, but Medicaid
is gonna say, well, we're gonna you're not gonna get it.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
For a certain period of time, right because they think
you might be.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Maybe that's why they have the look back to make
sure that people are doing this as soon as they
need care and not a second sooner. So that's definitely
something that's important to talk with your Atorney's about because
that is you know, if you haven't thought about it beforehand,
this is all you'll think about when the time comes.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Yeah, super, it's still not too late.
Speaker 6 (29:11):
If someone's in a nursing home, or even if they've
been in nursing for a couple of years, we can
do what's called the crisis plan. So that's a plan
where we put together we can still protect some money.
It may not be as much as if we had
started five years earlier, but it's I just want to
make make sure people know it's never too late. If
somebody tells you when you go to a nursing horom, oh,
(29:31):
you got to spend all your money and then you
can apply for Medicaid.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Please please please talk with a qualified elder law attorney.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
Yeah, they don't have to be like certified or anything,
but if they understand what they're doing, they have a
lot of experience in it, then they can tell you
the right way to handle it.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yes, definitely. What are some of the ways that families
can start to organize or title assets that could protect
them from like long term care costs and things like that.
If this is something that they're thinking about, you know,
bringing up this year when they're talking and nothing, you know,
maybe there's nothing pressing right now, But.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
What are some of those strategies that you use with clients.
Speaker 6 (30:06):
So one of my favorite strategies is a special irrevocable trust.
And what we do is we take that asset and
we put it in a trust. Hopefully they make it
through the five years, because if not, we have to
disclose that and it would create a penalty. That's probably
my favorite way a lot of people. That's my favorite
way for pre planning. If we're doing crisis planning, we
(30:27):
do some other things, and that depends a little bit
of what state you're in. Sometimes I get people telling me, well,
I just start, I'll just give assets to the kids,
and that can work. One of the issues that I
have with that is if, for example, sometimes people tell
me we're given the house to the kids. If you
do that, give it to them while you're alive, you're
(30:48):
gonna miss the step up in basis. So if you
bought the house, you know, thirty years ago, and it
was I don't I'm making up a numb one hundred
fifty thousand dollars, but now it's worth three hundred thousand dollars.
Then what you've done is you given them the house,
and then when they sell the house, they have to
pay tax on the difference between one hundred and fifty
and the three hundred thousand, right whereas if they would
have inherited it then they would get and they sold
(31:12):
the house, then they would only have to pay tax
on the difference between the value of the house at
the time of death and the value of the house
they sold it. So basically, if you sell it pretty quick.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
There's probably not gonna be a whole lot of difference.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
So before anybody gives away assets again, talk with a
qualified elder lattorney who can come up with a whole
a plan and make sure that you're not going to
step in something that you don't mean to.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
What about spousal protection and then assets like you know,
if say you're marrying, you're trying to figure out, you know,
what to do, and maybe one of you know somebody
needs care, but maybe not both of you. What are
some of the things you've seen with with spouses who
maybe somebody is worried about protecting the assets but wanting
to make sure that their spouse gets the care that
they need. Any special considerations for spouses.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
Well yeah, well, first thing that people need to be
aware of is Medicaid looks at the assets of both spouses.
So even if you have this set of assets that
are just in one spouse's name and this set of
assets that are just in the other, Medicaid is gonna
look at everything and and they're gonna they're gonna apply,
they're gonna count it.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
So one of the things that we do is create
an irrevocal trust and we put assets in that. If
we're doing pre planning.
Speaker 6 (32:22):
And again that's not really for every that's not necessarily
for everybody, but it is a good plan. It is
a good way to help make sure that we have assets. So,
for example, I have I've had some clients that had
a lot of real estate and it would be very
difficult to liquidate that and get qualified for Medicaid A
in a timely manner. So what we did is we
(32:43):
create an irrevocable trust. We put this this real estate
in the trust, and if everybody stays healthy for five years,
that takes it off the table, like Medicaid won't look
at that anymore, so you can still keep that asset.
Also depends on how assets are are held. For example,
here in Texas, if you have a retirement account and
it's and it's kicking off Require Requirementimum distributions rm ds,
(33:06):
it's not.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Account of blasset. Now the R and D s, will
we account to the income? Actually, let me take a
step back.
Speaker 6 (33:11):
So there's three real quickly, there's three tests for Medicaid.
You have a health test, an income test, and an
asset test, and you have to meet all three to qualify.
And so if you have an r m D, the.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
IRA itself is not an asset, but the income goes
toward the income test.
Speaker 6 (33:27):
So you just have to just to know the ins
and outs or work with with somebody that does.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
It is.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
It's difficult to navigate by yourself, I think, because there
are certain things where you could say yeah, from a
tax perspect of this, but then from an income perspective,
you know, we might think a little bit differently. And
then also you know, when you're right as far as
things like the step up and basis, it could seem
like logically the best move to just give, you know,
but there's so many other factors and there's so many
things that come up. So it is really important to
(33:56):
you know, to work with people that you trust figure
out the right way for you, because it might maybe
you heard somebody else did this move and it worked
out really well for them, or this was but they're
they're not you. They have different income, they have different assets,
different family. And so I think a lot of times
we do listen to our friends or we talk to
people in our communities. We think, Okay, well, this was
(34:17):
something they did, and I hear that a lot should
this be something I do? And a lot of times
the situations are slightly different or very different, and they
wouldn't work.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Exactly the same. So super important.
Speaker 6 (34:28):
And that's that's true, even if they got the information right.
It's it's kind of like sure telephone when we were kids, right, Yeah,
So it could be you know, you whisper in somebody's ear,
I don't know, the bird flies at midnight and by
the time he gets around the corner, it's uh, I
like eating chili on Sundays, completely different, right.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
And I think that's something that's important because sometimes like yeah,
maybe that person worked with an attorney. Maybe that person
did everything perfect and it worked well for that, it
still might not be your move.
Speaker 6 (34:54):
It might right exactly, everybody different, everything is everything.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
There's always a little nuance. Well that worked over.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
Here, but in this case, because of this, we want
to do this and in a minut i'd be the law.
It might be just how your assets are held, or
maybe what your goals are, and those could be different.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Before we go, this is such an important conversation and
I really appreciate you joining me and sharing your expertise.
But what would you say is one piece of advice
that you'd give to families who are just starting to
think about elder care for themselves or their loved ones.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Yes, that's a great question.
Speaker 6 (35:24):
I think start as soon as you think it's a problem.
If so, Like you said, we're getting up on the
fourth quarter. A lot of times we get calls in
December January because people have gone home for Thanksgiving and
mom and dad are often able to kind of disguise
really what's going on over the phone. But when you
(35:45):
see him in person, maybe moms went to grab the
pumpkin spice and instead grabbed the powdered cayenne pepper and
through that in the pie as well. You know, people
see that start are starting to see that a little
bit more common at this time of year. So talk
with somebody who's qualified elder law attorney who understands how
(36:07):
everything fits together. You can go to the National Academy
of Elder Law Attorneys. There's a lot of people, a
lot of attorneys there who are have made it their
their mission to help elders. Now, although that said, just
because they're a member doesn't mean they actually know what
they're doing.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
Because you could be because you're interested, you might be.
Speaker 6 (36:23):
So, you know, you want to talk with somebody to
find out how often they do this, what their main
what their main things are, how you know.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Just educate.
Speaker 6 (36:33):
But the bottom line it really is just educate yourself.
Educate yourself on what are the possibilities, what are my expectations,
what do I need to be concerned about.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, I think that it's it's great to know that
it's good resources to look at. I know, I've definitely
talked to a state planning attorneys. Some of them focus
on trust, some focus on young families, some folcus.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
It is different.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
There's a lot of different you know, there's a lot
of commonalities, but there are some some unique things to consider,
especially in the space of elder loss. So definitely important
to reach out to somebody who is an expert in
that particular area. And you're right, pay attention to what
you see, you know, and a lot of times we
don't necessarily have as much time as we wish we
did or think we do. Especially I've seen some people
(37:12):
who say that things have you know, escalated very quickly
with you know, some of the things that they noticed,
and they think.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Back like, oh, if I should have yeah, I should
have caught onto that.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
And so I think it is important to kind of
listen to you know, your intuition and your gut when
when you when you sent something and you know just done.
You know, you can even say I was listening to
a podcast and this topic came up.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
What do you have you done? Any thoughts on this
or anything?
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Because it doesn't have to be in a tech it
doesn't have to be a I don't trust you, I'm
taking the key, It doesn't It can be just a
conversation and you never know your your relatives might want.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
To talk to you too.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (37:49):
Well, it's tricky with us generation because a lot of
them are really really closed, uh with with their finances
because that's a personal thing, but I think it's important.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
It is important to talk to them because.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Yeah, and if you to open the conversation, nobody likes
in any generation paying taxes.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Start there.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that's one way.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
But I've gotten everybody to break through with being like,
you know, how do.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
We save on taxes?
Speaker 6 (38:11):
Her?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
For some reason, it'll get people to be like, yeah,
let's do that. So if you need to just just
just a hint, if you need to try to have
an awkward conversation.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
And nobody suggestion. I love that.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Aaron, how can people find you if they want to
learn more about your firm or you know, follow along
with you in some of the information that you're putting
out there for people.
Speaker 6 (38:32):
Yeah, I think go to my website Aaronmiller Law dot com.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
We'll give you the link for that. Also, I have.
Speaker 6 (38:38):
A YouTube channel. I think it's Miller Law Office ploc
plan on something a godly long. But I'll send you
the link to that one too.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Great.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Yeah, we'll make sure to include all of those in
the show notes.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
And yeah, definitely check check out his website the YouTube
because sometimes you could just send a link you can
start a conversation. You can say hey, I learned like
I heard this and I thought of you. It doesn't Yeah,
it doesn't always have to be confrontationial. It can really
you can just go about it through curiosity and education
and I think that could be really helpful for families
out there. So, Eric, thank you so much for joining
(39:10):
me today. I really enjoyed speaking with you. And if
you're looking at your finances and trying to figure out
how you can plan ahead for your future, including you know,
aging parents, little babies, all of the things in between
that you have to plan for, head over to my website,
Misterdlynch dot com. I'd be happy to look at your
financial plan and see if we can connect you with
the other experts.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
That might be able to help you with things like this.
Thank you so much for listening, and we'll talk again
next week.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Thank you for joining us on another insightful episode of
Demist Buying Money. If you enjoy this episode, please subscribe, rate,
and labor review.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Stay tuned for
Speaker 2 (39:42):
More engaging conversations on our next episode, and remember knowledge
is the key to financial empowerment.
Welcome to the Demus Defying Money podcast, where each week
you will hear unforgettable conversations with expert guests about success, money, business,
and small steps you can take to elevate your life
and wealth. Now here's your host, Misty Lynch.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello, everyone, Thanks so much for joining me for this
episode of Demis Defying Money.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Today we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Planning for elder care, the payments, protecting people that we love,
and also having those conversations that we might tend to avoid.
I'm joined today by Aaron Miller. He's an award winning
elder law and estate planning attorney, and he's dedicated to
helping families with long term care. After starting his career
in corporate litigation, he shifted to helping people avoid the
(00:45):
high cost of long term care. And so I'm excited
to talk with him today because I think this is
something that's on a lot of people's minds, but sometimes
we don't really know where to go for help or
how to start this conversation that could be a little
bit sensitive.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
We are coming up to Q four, so we've got
the holidays coming up. We're going to be around our
loved one. So I thought it'd be a really good
time to talk with.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Aarin about some of the ways that we can make
this conversation a little bit more successful, a little easier,
and how we can actually, you know, protect our finances
when it comes to things like long term.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Care and eldercare. So, thank you Erin so much for
joining me today.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Yeah, Beskie, I appreciate you having me today. Thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
This episode of Demystifying Money with Miss dy Lynch is
proudly sponsored by Soundview Financial Advisors. Visit www dot Soundview
financial Advisors dot com to learn more.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
So, how did you so you were?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You started in corporate litigation, which I think all of
us who maybe dreamed about law school one day think about.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
You know, being in a courtroom, and but how did you.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Shift to elder elder law and why is this so
important to you?
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (01:55):
So, uh, my first job out of law school as a
clerk for the Tech Supreme Court. And then I went
to a very large international law firm based in California,
but our office was in Dallas, and I tell people
I used to make the world safe for the big
five accounting firms.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
And it was great.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
I enjoyed it, but it wasn't super super fulfilling. So
I went from that firm to another. I was still
doing litigation and finally went on my own. And then
one day I realized, while I love being in the
courtroom talking to jurys to making arguments, I hated all
the chest beating and the kind of uh, you know,
(02:35):
proven how tough you are before the stuff that happens
before the loss, before actually getting into the courtroom, and
it's just very rarely that we got into courtroom, and I.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Started looking around to uh. I didn't know what I
was gonna do.
Speaker 6 (02:47):
I knew I couldn't keep doing what I was doing
because I had started to become a really angry and
very bitter person.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Because my whole.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
My whole job is looking for looking for the fault,
so the criticizing somebody else's work, and I was finding
that that was coming home with me and I was
hanging out with my wife and taking out of my kids,
and I knew things were not going to go well
if I continued in that path.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
So I didn't know what I was going to do.
Wasn't sure I was going to stay in the law.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
But I eventually found a state planning and through that
I found elder law. Elder law is something that, well
a state planning answers a question of what happens if
you get sick and die. Elder law answers the question
what happens if you get sick and don't die. And
what I really loved about it is I really get
to help seniors and really make a difference in people's
(03:40):
individual people's lives. And kind of one of the other
reasons why I love what I do is I love
teaching people about the different options that they have for
care and how to get the government to help pay
for care. Because when I was much younger, my grandmother
had a heart attack and she went to the hospital.
(04:02):
This was back when it wasn't just like three days
in year out. She was there for quite a while
and then she came home and everything seemed good at first,
But after a certain period of time, my grandfather started
finding like she'd stuck her I don't know, her purse
in the freezer, or hit her keys behind the set
of books and the bookshelf, or I think at one
(04:23):
point she unscrewed her heating heating air return vent on
the floor and put her slippers or something in it.
It's just, you know, thing's quite right. And eventually he
had to put her in a nursing home. And I
don't really think there was a big difference between memory
care and nursing homes back then, but she was there
for the next ten years of her life.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
And what my grandfather did because he didn't know any different,
nobody told him.
Speaker 6 (04:48):
He just went and every month he wrote a check
or reached into his wallet and paid for her care
for ten years.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
And after a while, you know, they ran out of money.
He didn't really run out of money while she was alive,
but he after she passed.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
I think he was on his own for about three
or five years afterwards, and then he needed care. And
by the time he needed care, you know, there was
no money left. In fact, I think during his lifetime,
just after at some point he had to bring borders
in because he just didn't have enough money. So my dad,
my aunt, my uncle, when my grandfather needed care, had
(05:25):
to dip into their own pockets, their own savings, their
own retirement.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
And again because nobody.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
Told them about the different options that were available. And
that's something that that probably happened about twenty twenty five
years ago, and that's something we still feel today.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Yeah, and at.
Speaker 6 (05:43):
Some point my mother she had developed some memory issues
and she had to go into a nursing home memory
cares facility, excuse me. And I knew what to do
then because it's what I do now, But because she
hadn't planned, depending on where you go, you may be
able to get.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Medicaid benefits, and so we had to wait.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
But thankfully she had she had an inheritance, so we
were able to use that. But again, you know, they
had an opportunity to buy long term care insurance and I'm.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
A huge believer of it.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
Relatively not a lot of money, and they just decided
they couldn't afford at the times, which is unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
So, yeah, insurance coverages something I've talked with a lot
of people, and it is it's a tricky one. And
I have seen a lot of people, especially some clients,
who have long term care policies in force that they've
been paying on for years, but the premiums keep going up.
And when it comes to you know, if expenses are
going up and the budget is feeling tight, the things
(06:42):
that people tend to look at to cut would be
something like insurance because you're protecting against something that has
not happened, and so a lot of times people think
of that compared to the bills and other things. But
it is so important and I do think that more
conversations need to happen. But these are complex, confusing policies
with fewer care years around for some you know people,
and some of the policies I've seen that people have
(07:04):
you couldn't buy today because of the coverage. So it's
definitely an interesting area but going to become increasingly more
important as we have an aging population and more people
living longer and potentially needing some of these types of services.
So in your opinion, when should people start thinking about
(07:25):
elder care and what are the what are the main
ways to pay for it?
Speaker 6 (07:32):
Yeah, so I think people should pay should start thinking
about elder care. Honestly, long term care insurance or I
know that's a term of art for people that sell,
and what I mean by long term care insurance is
not like the traditional long term care insurance necessarily, but
anything that has a long term writer. So it could
be a whole life insurance policy or could be a
newye or something like that, something that will pay for care.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I usually tell people the best time to build.
Speaker 6 (07:55):
It's kind of like an oak tree, right, the best
time to plant a tree is twenty years ago.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
The next best time is today. So personally, I bought
long term care insurance on my mid thirties.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
It's younger than most people, that is, I.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Mean, I've been in I've been in this area for
quite a while.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
Yeah, but it's it's obviously cheaper the earlier you get it,
but it can raise premium. So it's yeah, you're right,
it's it's one of the things you got to kind
of look at.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, it's definitely important to look at.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
But that's you know, it's interesting because I have talked
to some people who maybe had a history of dimension
in their family or other where they they've seen what
you've seen, where you've the funds are depleted, where there's
this long, you know, decade long need at times that
feel very strongly about having these type of coverages because
it's something that they've lived.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
Through, absolutely, and it's it's often kind of like you said,
it's it's people who've who had those experiences are the
ones that are most I don't enthusiastic, may not be
the right word, but the most most act it's.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It's one of those things that's like a necessity, It's
like a you know, and I think that's happened with
people who've had life insurance payouts in their family, other
things like.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
That that sometimes if you lucky enough not to experience that,
right you don't, But for.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Some people it is. It is something that's in the
back of their mind, something that they may need someday. Also,
I'm working with a lot more you know, child free
couples or single, single people who are thinking what happens
to me? So when you're talking, you know, from a
from a legal point of view, what are some things
for people to think about if maybe you don't have
you know, oh my kids will take care of me,
(09:36):
or you know, some some clue as to what would
happen when you maybe can't make those decisions.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah. Absolutely, it's a good idea to plan ahead.
Speaker 6 (09:45):
So you want to you know, long term care insurance
or some form would be great, But you also want
to have your estate planning documents in place. So think
about who's going to make decisions for you if you
can't make your own financial or medical decisions that you know,
with a married couple, it's usually going to be spouse
and kids if they haven't.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
But if you don't have that, then it could be.
Speaker 6 (10:06):
Family members, cousins, sisters, brothers, it could be her nieces
and nephews.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
But it doesn't have to be somebody you're related to.
It could be if you've got a family friend.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
So I've seen clergy be a pointed Sometimes it's just
whoever you trust and.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Who's willing to take on that role.
Speaker 6 (10:25):
And if you don't have a natural connection like a
child or a spouse, then unfortunately might be a little
bit harder.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
But it's certainly important and it's worth It's worth.
Speaker 6 (10:34):
Handling it now when you're able to kind of make
some intelligent decisions on your own, versus down the road
when you might have to scramble right.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And I think that there is always that risk of
people who are taking advantage of people who maybe have,
you know, some diminished capacity. And so I'm always asking
my clients, and I've had some clients, you know, in
their fifties, who I'm like, who would be the person
for you? And they're like, oh, my best friend, she
would know everything, And they know exactly who would be
the person that they would trust in. So I said, okay,
(11:03):
we ought to make sure that this is legally documented
somewhere because they're not going to listen to best friend.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
No, nobody's going to listen to best friend.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
But I do think that that's something that we do,
we do tend to know. But I think, yeah, formalizing
that process is so important. I think it is something
that a lot of people are thinking about more often,
especially as we're living longer. They're seeing aunts, uncles, mom,
and dad, maybe living longer than they'd anticipate it, and
you know, those those expenses going up. But I wondered
(11:32):
if you could kind of break down the pros and
cons of these different you know, payment options. I know
you mentioned long term care, and then we've heard about
you know, private pay, which is basically you know, yeah,
your savings. But then I think there's some misconceptions about
medicaid and really what you know when that comes into
the picture and is it worth really you know, when
(11:53):
some people are saying.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
How do I get rid of it? Like what are
the risks there?
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (11:58):
Yeah, so kind of as alluded, there's three ways to
pay for care. You can private pay and that's great.
Because it gives you the most options if you've got
the money to make it work.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Fantastic.
Speaker 6 (12:09):
Now, for my grandmother, that's what my grandfather did, and actually, frankly,
that's what my grandfather did too, or my parents did
for my grandfather. But the thing is, once you run
out of money, then you lose your options.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
You could also have other people pay, so that's the
long term care insurance option.
Speaker 6 (12:26):
What I love about long term care insurance is it'll
help pay for not only nursing homes, but it'll help
pay for memory care, assisted living, and at home care.
It's quite frankly, nobody wants to go to a nursing home,
right and so I love those options.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
If you can get it.
Speaker 6 (12:42):
It used to be before COVID, you could get it
up until you're kind of your eighty two ish. After COVID,
I think it's not quite quite as old, and it
is dependent on your health at the time and things
like that. So you've got to look at that. If
you don't have enough money, or even if you do
have enough money but don't and you don't get long
term care insurance, we can look at government options, and
(13:04):
there's a few different ones. You've got a lot of
people here here Medicare and they think that will help
pay for long term care, and unfortunately it really won't.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
It'll pay for.
Speaker 6 (13:12):
Up to one hundred days. Then you have Medicaid and
we'll talk about that in a second, and then you
have VA benefits. So if you have a veterans who
served ninety days one day during a time of war,
it has a discharge other than dishonorable. You can get
some help to pay for assisted living, memory care, or
(13:32):
at home care. It'll also cover nursing home, but it's
usually not enough money. It's only about a couple thousand
h for that. But it is really helpful for assisted
living and memory care. But Medicaid is really how the
middle class pays for care. A lot of people think
you have to be dirt poor to get qualified, and
probably the government would prefer that, but they set certain
rules up that we follow, kind of like a CPA
(13:55):
or tax attorney follows income tax rules.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Right.
Speaker 6 (13:57):
There's certain things that you can recategorize, well, this isn't
really income, this is this, or there's a credit that
you can take or if you can't make it, maybe
it's not a credit, can take it that reduces your income,
but maybe it reduces your taxes. You know, there's different
rules that are set up, and so the same thing is,
we've got that for Medicaid. And it's maybe one of
(14:19):
the biggest misconceptions people have is if I go to
a Medicaid facility, it's just a terrible facility. I'm gonna
get substandard care, And that's not really the case in
my experience. What I found is nursing homes have an
optional whether or not they take Medicaid or not. Okay,
And if they do take Medicaid, it's a business decision
because you know, if you're private paying, it's possible that
(14:42):
person runs out of money then you have to kick
them out or do some other things. But if you've
got somebody on Medicaid, pretty much once they get on Medicaid,
is really unlikely that they're going to lose it unless
they maybe they get an inheritance or something like that.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
But it's.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
What I found is it's not whether or not the
nurse to accept Medicaid's who they hire to be the
person that does the the actual hands on care. So
you can find a really great nursing home. Maybe they
take Medicaid may that they don't. But you really got
to be careful because there's unfortunately, there's a lot of
turnover in these places because they don't really pay them
a lot of money, which is kind of shocking considering
(15:18):
how much money you know you as a patient end
up paying.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Yes, but it doesn't trickle down to.
Speaker 6 (15:23):
The people actually given the care unfortunately, and so you
really have to be on them. So just because the
nursing home is great today doesn't mean it's six months.
It may not be, so you really have to just
keep monitoring it. But again, if it's if it's a
great nursing home or not, it's not really dependent on.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
If it takes takes Medicaid.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
That's good for people to know, because I think there
is you know, there are different options, and I think
that there's definitely a lot more facility.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Options that we've seen. I mentioned before.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I'm going to one in my town to talk about
financial planning tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
And some of these places.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
They're like a college campus seems, where they offer so
many you know, activities and the food plan and all
of these things where this is like a It's an
interesting conversation that I'm having with some clients that are
looking at these places that they may want to move
into first, you know, for just having that community with
(16:18):
that escalation of care as.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
They age into it. It's really is it is it
changing everywhere?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
But because before, you know, like you mentioned a nursing home,
this was like a short term end of what type
of place, but now they're really kind of aging into.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
You know, a different, different level of care.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So these these are pretty expensive financial decisions to make
as far as you know what route you want to go.
But really interesting how that that's changing. What's your perspective
on the way that these facilities are starting to to
look and how they're getting clients and getting you know,
people to come live there.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
Yeah, there's I've been to a couple of places that
kind of remind me of being like a cruise ship
on land.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
They've got like a program director, they've got a lot
of things going on.
Speaker 6 (17:07):
And Yeah, some of these places that offer what's called
the continuum, their continuing care communities are called. So it
might start with independent living, so you go there because
you've got a lot of friends there or you have
an ability to make a lot of friends, and then
as you progress, they may have a nursing home component,
or may memory care, and so they can be very expensive.
(17:28):
But often what you might do is you pay a
deposit or you pay a large chunk of money and
then maybe you may pay a little bit monthly after that.
It just really depends on the place. But yeah, it's
it's really interesting another place one can get care. You
can't really get Medicaid for it. But there's a something
called the residential care home that's becoming more and more popular.
(17:50):
So if you just drove by it on the street,
this looks like a house, but what they've set it up,
so there may be i don't know, six to ten
residents in there and they'll have somebody that's with them
all the time, but it as more of a home
feel to it.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
So there's a lot of people that like that as well.
Speaker 6 (18:04):
So it's just there's lots of different options for people
on what type of care they can receive.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And I think that there's a lot of conversation too
around you know, like you mentioned before, people who want
to stay home and they want, you know, help or
they need assistants, but they need somebody to come into.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Their their home to deliver it there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Of caregiver burnout for people who maybe there was no
real long term care plan, so you know husband and wife,
Like you know, husband is the long term care plan,
our wife is the long term care plan. And then
they're burnt out and they're getting you know, not taking
care of themselves. So what are some options that people have,
you know, maybe if they do need if they start
(18:43):
to need help, but they feel like it's their responsibility
to do it themselves.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
How can somebody like you help those people who maybe.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Are looking for other options and how to pay for it,
if you know, if they feel like they're the default caregiver.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
Yeah, one of the biggest problems that I see is
usually it's the wife. The wife is taking care of
her husband all her life, and she just sees this
as the next iteration of that, and they get burnt
out of One of the things I try to tell
them is, you know what, I know, you're the one
that's taking care of them, but try at least once
(19:20):
a week for a couple hours, bring somebody else in
for respite care, whether that's you can, maybe somebody in
a family, maybe a church member, or maybe you can
pay for it and there's some options on that, but
you really need some time to yourself, whether that's you know,
going to the movies or getting your hair done and
maybe just going shopping or maybe just goes sitting in
the park for two hours. It's really important for your
(19:43):
mental health, for your physical health to have that separation sometimes,
and if your spouse cannot be by themselves, then then
bring somebody in to watch them and that way you
can go take care of yourself. It's kind of like
you know, when you get on an airplane, they tell
you to put the mask on yourself or they down
before you put it on other people, and that's kind
of the same.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, it's it's it's a good point.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
It is something that I've told people, you know, to
try to find room in the budget to to get help,
even if it's temper or just just for you know
a few hours, because a lot of times that caregiver
then you know, once you know, once you know, if
they're no longer a caregiver, or something happens to the
person that they were helping, then they might have needs
(20:27):
themselves where.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Their health is diminished.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Drops fast basically and financially, you know, struct So it's
it's super important and even I think like having things
organized and having help it is is one of those
things that is it's just really really important for everybody
to think about. But I want to talk more about,
you know, long term care insurance because I think this
(20:52):
is something like you mentioned with your family. Your grandfather
took care of your grandmother and then your parents have
to step in and help. But I know, I talked
to a lot of clients. None of them tell me
they want their kids to have to support them. Zero
percent have said no, I'll just depend on them. But
this is what this is what happens.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
So so you know, take me through it.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Yeah, yeah, this isn't the you know, the goal.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
But then eventually when when there's limited conversations and other options.
But I don't sell long term care insurance. I don't
sell insurance right now. I just do you know, the
financial planning and investment management. But I have, you know,
I definitely have reviewed policies and looked at them. But
I'm curious about, like your your take on what's out
there today and what you know what some of these
(21:34):
policies look like and who they might benefit.
Speaker 6 (21:38):
Yeah, so traditional long term care insurance was I use
it to lose it proposition. In other words, you'd pay
your money and if you did end up needing long
term care, then you lost the amount of money that
you paid. And that's actually that's what I personally have
because that's the older style of policies, and I understand
people are reluctant to do that, but it's kind of
(22:00):
like to me, it's kind of like homeowners insurance, Right,
you don't you don't pay your premium and then at
the end of the year, going, man, we didn't have
a fire last year, and really ticked off that I
wasted all that money.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Right, it's we're glad we didn't have the fire. To me,
it's kind of the same thing.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
But there are some newer products. They're they're hybrid products,
so they're based on uh, a whole life insurance policy
or a term life I'm sorry, whole life insurance polician
like an annuity and they have a long term care rider.
And so basically you can pay a lump sum maybe
and a monthly or an annual sum, or you can you
(22:34):
can pay a lump sum and sometimes that's it, or
maybe you just pay you know, a monthly or annual premium.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
But.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
It's it's they have provisions that if you don't end
up using it, then whatever you've spent or whatever you've
you some you have that can go to your benefici
race or maybe if you just part of it like
your beneficiary, so the way can you can still recapture
some of the funds that you've had, which is pretty cool.
But there are fewer uh fear providers of long term currence.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
So one of the problems that they had was they
were rating it.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
Insurance companies were rating it more like whole life insurance,
more like life insurance, right, And typically my understanding is
with life insurance, people change policies every few years, and
so they were kind of relying on that, and that
didn't happen with long term currence. Yeah, and so a
lot of companies that used to provide it no longer
do and so that's something you just want to, you know,
(23:29):
just be aware of. I don't think people were kicked
off of existing policies, but they're just not writing new.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Potises a lot of times, right the the you know,
the premiums would go up, but I think you know,
it's it's important like that you mentioned about the homeowner's
insurance because it is true like for a lot of
those policies, yes, nobody's upset that they didn't have one.
But if like in the user lose a case, like
say you stop paying it and you have a fire
next week, even if you paid for for twenty years.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
You're not covered anymore.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
So it is really really important before before, you know,
to to evaluate other options.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Maybe there is another option that you could switch.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
To that might be you know, better ors, but so
important to look at it. And it is interesting some
of those hybrid products and policies, and these products can
be complicated, you know, so I think it's definitely worth
making sure that you understand what you're buying when you're
looking at these types of insurance hybrid policies, but they
can be really helpful for people right in the right
(24:23):
situation that need, you know, need to make sure that
these things are covered well.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
I think one of the things that surprises people is
just the cost of care. I'm in Texas and our
average cost of careers around seven thousand, seventy five hundred dollars.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Some places.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
My parents lived in Alaska for a while, it could
be up to twenty five thousand a month.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
So California, I know, it's pretty expensive.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
New York is massachuse it's not cheap.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yeah, yeah, I think that really shocks people. Well, it is.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Shocking because I think a lot of times when we
think about our grandparents, our parents, like maybe they you know,
it was just timfering, you know, they maybe had a
nurse come by, or they had you.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Know, there's really not much that we can compare to.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
But I think the insurance companies realized it when a
lot of them got out of the business because they
couldn't brice it properly. Because the amount of expense and
need and care and just has skyrocket and the cost
of healthcare, so it is really hard to manage it
on your own. It is one of those things that's
now becoming something that's like and you know, you need insurance,
(25:31):
same like a like a home well all of these
things that are just that type.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Of loss is just too hard.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
So really really important to think about when somebody does
have a policy, what are the main benefits that they provide.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
So they're going to provide care, typically they're going to
have care available at home, so it might also pay
for respite care.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
It could pay for assists of living, memory care, long
nursing home care.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
So it's very, very broad. It's better than relying on Medicaid.
So because Medicaid, well, each state runs a little bit different.
I'm here in Texas. There's not a at home care benefit,
not really. There's kind of a little bit of one,
same with SIS living or member care. Not really member care,
but there is a little bit. It's mainly a full
on nursing home benefit. Now each state has different things.
(26:21):
I know New York there's some pretty broad rules on
what they'll will and won't pay for, for example.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
But it's one of those things where you really need to.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
Start thinking about it ideally before you before you need it.
We've been talking about long term care insurance. If somebody
can't qualify for long term care insurance, then one of
the things that I do is help set up a
special irrevocable trust for Medicaid planning, which is great. It'll
help us if you need a nursing home, but not
so great if you need some other other type of care,
(26:52):
which is why I prefer people getting long term care insurance.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
No, and I think there's a lot of you know,
a lot of people do have things like revocable trust
set up, but that's something that you can go in
and change and you know, yess out of. So you
mentioned setting up the irrevocable trusts, which are basically you're
moving that money out of your estate into the trust.
And so that's one of the key differences that I
think people think, oh, just put everything over there, kind
(27:19):
of not understanding what that might mean.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
As far as they're access to it.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
So what do you see as one of those you know,
when people do have to set it up, is it
usually because that is the best option available if they
can't get any other coverage.
Speaker 6 (27:31):
Yeah, if you can't get long term care insurance and
you're concerned about the cost of long term care, then
typically I believe in every state, at least in some
form or another, we can use an irrevocable trust. Now
it's a special trust, typical typical irrevocable trust. We're done
for state tax purposes. And so most of the folks
that were I don't think any of the folks I've
dealt with actually have an estate tax issue they need
(27:54):
to worry about, so we don't have to worry about those.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
So depending on kind of what state you're on.
Speaker 6 (27:59):
In a little bit of the philosophy the attorney putting together,
we don't have to worry about a lot of those
tiki taki I r S rules, And so you might
have the persons to be the trustee maybe, but they're
not gonna be a benefit beneficiary of the plan because
if they are, it's a kind of blasset. Again, each
state's different, and sometimes attorneys in a state, do you know.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
It's a little bit of an art, so they might
do a little bit differently.
Speaker 6 (28:25):
But yeah, it's also one of those things where ideally,
if you don't get long term care insurance, you talk
to an elder law attorney and they put you into
something that can help protect your assets five years before
you need care, because if you need care within that
five years, you can still apply for Medicaid, but Medicaid
is gonna say, well, we're gonna you're not gonna get it.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
For a certain period of time, right because they think
you might be.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Maybe that's why they have the look back to make
sure that people are doing this as soon as they
need care and not a second sooner. So that's definitely
something that's important to talk with your Atorney's about because
that is you know, if you haven't thought about it beforehand,
this is all you'll think about when the time comes.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Yeah, super, it's still not too late.
Speaker 6 (29:11):
If someone's in a nursing home, or even if they've
been in nursing for a couple of years, we can
do what's called the crisis plan. So that's a plan
where we put together we can still protect some money.
It may not be as much as if we had
started five years earlier, but it's I just want to
make make sure people know it's never too late. If
somebody tells you when you go to a nursing horom, oh,
(29:31):
you got to spend all your money and then you
can apply for Medicaid.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Please please please talk with a qualified elder law attorney.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
Yeah, they don't have to be like certified or anything,
but if they understand what they're doing, they have a
lot of experience in it, then they can tell you
the right way to handle it.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yes, definitely. What are some of the ways that families
can start to organize or title assets that could protect
them from like long term care costs and things like that.
If this is something that they're thinking about, you know,
bringing up this year when they're talking and nothing, you know,
maybe there's nothing pressing right now, But.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
What are some of those strategies that you use with clients.
Speaker 6 (30:06):
So one of my favorite strategies is a special irrevocable trust.
And what we do is we take that asset and
we put it in a trust. Hopefully they make it
through the five years, because if not, we have to
disclose that and it would create a penalty. That's probably
my favorite way a lot of people. That's my favorite
way for pre planning. If we're doing crisis planning, we
(30:27):
do some other things, and that depends a little bit
of what state you're in. Sometimes I get people telling me, well,
I just start, I'll just give assets to the kids,
and that can work. One of the issues that I
have with that is if, for example, sometimes people tell
me we're given the house to the kids. If you
do that, give it to them while you're alive, you're
(30:48):
gonna miss the step up in basis. So if you
bought the house, you know, thirty years ago, and it
was I don't I'm making up a numb one hundred
fifty thousand dollars, but now it's worth three hundred thousand dollars.
Then what you've done is you given them the house,
and then when they sell the house, they have to
pay tax on the difference between one hundred and fifty
and the three hundred thousand, right whereas if they would
have inherited it then they would get and they sold
(31:12):
the house, then they would only have to pay tax
on the difference between the value of the house at
the time of death and the value of the house
they sold it. So basically, if you sell it pretty quick.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
There's probably not gonna be a whole lot of difference.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
So before anybody gives away assets again, talk with a
qualified elder lattorney who can come up with a whole
a plan and make sure that you're not going to
step in something that you don't mean to.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
What about spousal protection and then assets like you know,
if say you're marrying, you're trying to figure out, you know,
what to do, and maybe one of you know somebody
needs care, but maybe not both of you. What are
some of the things you've seen with with spouses who
maybe somebody is worried about protecting the assets but wanting
to make sure that their spouse gets the care that
they need. Any special considerations for spouses.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
Well yeah, well, first thing that people need to be
aware of is Medicaid looks at the assets of both spouses.
So even if you have this set of assets that
are just in one spouse's name and this set of
assets that are just in the other, Medicaid is gonna
look at everything and and they're gonna they're gonna apply,
they're gonna count it.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
So one of the things that we do is create
an irrevocal trust and we put assets in that. If
we're doing pre planning.
Speaker 6 (32:22):
And again that's not really for every that's not necessarily
for everybody, but it is a good plan. It is
a good way to help make sure that we have assets. So,
for example, I have I've had some clients that had
a lot of real estate and it would be very
difficult to liquidate that and get qualified for Medicaid A
in a timely manner. So what we did is we
(32:43):
create an irrevocable trust. We put this this real estate
in the trust, and if everybody stays healthy for five years,
that takes it off the table, like Medicaid won't look
at that anymore, so you can still keep that asset.
Also depends on how assets are are held. For example,
here in Texas, if you have a retirement account and
it's and it's kicking off Require Requirementimum distributions rm ds,
(33:06):
it's not.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Account of blasset. Now the R and D s, will
we account to the income? Actually, let me take a
step back.
Speaker 6 (33:11):
So there's three real quickly, there's three tests for Medicaid.
You have a health test, an income test, and an
asset test, and you have to meet all three to qualify.
And so if you have an r m D, the.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
IRA itself is not an asset, but the income goes
toward the income test.
Speaker 6 (33:27):
So you just have to just to know the ins
and outs or work with with somebody that does.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
It is.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
It's difficult to navigate by yourself, I think, because there
are certain things where you could say yeah, from a
tax perspect of this, but then from an income perspective,
you know, we might think a little bit differently. And
then also you know, when you're right as far as
things like the step up and basis, it could seem
like logically the best move to just give, you know,
but there's so many other factors and there's so many
things that come up. So it is really important to
(33:56):
you know, to work with people that you trust figure
out the right way for you, because it might maybe
you heard somebody else did this move and it worked
out really well for them, or this was but they're
they're not you. They have different income, they have different assets,
different family. And so I think a lot of times
we do listen to our friends or we talk to
people in our communities. We think, Okay, well, this was
(34:17):
something they did, and I hear that a lot should
this be something I do? And a lot of times
the situations are slightly different or very different, and they
wouldn't work.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Exactly the same. So super important.
Speaker 6 (34:28):
And that's that's true, even if they got the information right.
It's it's kind of like sure telephone when we were kids, right, Yeah,
So it could be you know, you whisper in somebody's ear,
I don't know, the bird flies at midnight and by
the time he gets around the corner, it's uh, I
like eating chili on Sundays, completely different, right.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
And I think that's something that's important because sometimes like yeah,
maybe that person worked with an attorney. Maybe that person
did everything perfect and it worked well for that, it
still might not be your move.
Speaker 6 (34:54):
It might right exactly, everybody different, everything is everything.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
There's always a little nuance. Well that worked over.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
Here, but in this case, because of this, we want
to do this and in a minut i'd be the law.
It might be just how your assets are held, or
maybe what your goals are, and those could be different.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Before we go, this is such an important conversation and
I really appreciate you joining me and sharing your expertise.
But what would you say is one piece of advice
that you'd give to families who are just starting to
think about elder care for themselves or their loved ones.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Yes, that's a great question.
Speaker 6 (35:24):
I think start as soon as you think it's a problem.
If so, Like you said, we're getting up on the
fourth quarter. A lot of times we get calls in
December January because people have gone home for Thanksgiving and
mom and dad are often able to kind of disguise
really what's going on over the phone. But when you
(35:45):
see him in person, maybe moms went to grab the
pumpkin spice and instead grabbed the powdered cayenne pepper and
through that in the pie as well. You know, people
see that start are starting to see that a little
bit more common at this time of year. So talk
with somebody who's qualified elder law attorney who understands how
(36:07):
everything fits together. You can go to the National Academy
of Elder Law Attorneys. There's a lot of people, a
lot of attorneys there who are have made it their
their mission to help elders. Now, although that said, just
because they're a member doesn't mean they actually know what
they're doing.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
Because you could be because you're interested, you might be.
Speaker 6 (36:23):
So, you know, you want to talk with somebody to
find out how often they do this, what their main
what their main things are, how you know.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Just educate.
Speaker 6 (36:33):
But the bottom line it really is just educate yourself.
Educate yourself on what are the possibilities, what are my expectations,
what do I need to be concerned about.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, I think that it's it's great to know that
it's good resources to look at. I know, I've definitely
talked to a state planning attorneys. Some of them focus
on trust, some focus on young families, some folcus.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
It is different.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
There's a lot of different you know, there's a lot
of commonalities, but there are some some unique things to consider,
especially in the space of elder loss. So definitely important
to reach out to somebody who is an expert in
that particular area. And you're right, pay attention to what
you see, you know, and a lot of times we
don't necessarily have as much time as we wish we
did or think we do. Especially I've seen some people
(37:12):
who say that things have you know, escalated very quickly
with you know, some of the things that they noticed,
and they think.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Back like, oh, if I should have yeah, I should
have caught onto that.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
And so I think it is important to kind of
listen to you know, your intuition and your gut when
when you when you sent something and you know just done.
You know, you can even say I was listening to
a podcast and this topic came up.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
What do you have you done? Any thoughts on this
or anything?
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Because it doesn't have to be in a tech it
doesn't have to be a I don't trust you, I'm
taking the key, It doesn't It can be just a
conversation and you never know your your relatives might want.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
To talk to you too.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (37:49):
Well, it's tricky with us generation because a lot of
them are really really closed, uh with with their finances
because that's a personal thing, but I think it's important.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
It is important to talk to them because.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Yeah, and if you to open the conversation, nobody likes
in any generation paying taxes.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Start there.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that's one way.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
But I've gotten everybody to break through with being like,
you know, how do.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
We save on taxes?
Speaker 6 (38:11):
Her?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
For some reason, it'll get people to be like, yeah,
let's do that. So if you need to just just
just a hint, if you need to try to have
an awkward conversation.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
And nobody suggestion. I love that.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Aaron, how can people find you if they want to
learn more about your firm or you know, follow along
with you in some of the information that you're putting
out there for people.
Speaker 6 (38:32):
Yeah, I think go to my website Aaronmiller Law dot com.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
We'll give you the link for that. Also, I have.
Speaker 6 (38:38):
A YouTube channel. I think it's Miller Law Office ploc
plan on something a godly long. But I'll send you
the link to that one too.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Great.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Yeah, we'll make sure to include all of those in
the show notes.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
And yeah, definitely check check out his website the YouTube
because sometimes you could just send a link you can
start a conversation. You can say hey, I learned like
I heard this and I thought of you. It doesn't Yeah,
it doesn't always have to be confrontationial. It can really
you can just go about it through curiosity and education
and I think that could be really helpful for families
out there. So, Eric, thank you so much for joining
(39:10):
me today. I really enjoyed speaking with you. And if
you're looking at your finances and trying to figure out
how you can plan ahead for your future, including you know,
aging parents, little babies, all of the things in between
that you have to plan for, head over to my website,
Misterdlynch dot com. I'd be happy to look at your
financial plan and see if we can connect you with
the other experts.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
That might be able to help you with things like this.
Thank you so much for listening, and we'll talk again
next week.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Thank you for joining us on another insightful episode of
Demist Buying Money. If you enjoy this episode, please subscribe, rate,
and labor review.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Stay tuned for
Speaker 2 (39:42):
More engaging conversations on our next episode, and remember knowledge
is the key to financial empowerment.
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