Talking Politics and Spatchcock with a special guest

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
But first here in the three o'clock hour being joined
by a very special guest. And this is a guy
I've got a chance to know over the two and
a half years i've lived in Omaha. His name is
Matthew Zacher. He is a political consultant and food enthusiast.
We've done some bonding over that as well. Matthew, First
of all, thank you so much for being here in
the studio with me.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Once again.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
I'm right, it's good to be here. I think you
got the order wrong.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm a food enthusiast and then a political.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Then a political consultant. Well, is very important.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
The food thing.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Thanksgiving is the perfect time to talk to somebody who
knows the food situation. And you've introduced me to the
concept of dispatchcock and we're going to have to revisit
that here in a second. But let's start with the politics.
Political consultant for people who Matthew Zacker, that name's familiar,
Explain kind of your history in politics, how you kind

(00:50):
of got involved in what you've been doing here in
the last couple of years.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Right, So, political consultant, I mean it's think of someone
that's helping multiple people run for office.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
So, if you think of a campaign manager, you're working
on one campaign. If you think of a political consultant
or a political strategist, you're helping multiple people running for office.
So I'm very fortunate I have a great business partners
Derek Odin, who a lot of people know locally, Zach Herr,
Tommy Meisinger, Bryce Johnson. These are people we work with.

(01:20):
We have a firm called Flyover Strategies, and what we
do is we help people running for office in all
aspects of their campaign, from fundraising and money to their message,
to polling and data work, as well as field operations
like parades, yard signs, door to door, every tidbit we
try to be involved with. So my experience here locally,

(01:43):
I have worked on the last two campaigns for Congressman
Don Bacon. In twenty twenty four, that race looked especially daunting.
Obviously you had the blue dot and Kamala Harris and
all these factors that made it the headwinds so strong
for Congressman Bacon. We pulled that off when every pundit
and pull showed Don losing, right.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, And I mean, just to even backtrack a little
bit before that, there was even if it, I mean,
at least we heard it on the show a lot.
I know that the actual primary didn't seem like it
was an Ail Bier by any means. But there was
a movement here in the second district from the Republicans
that said, we need somebody who's more conservative, and certainly

(02:27):
the voting panned out in a different way, but he
had to also kind of just sift through that to
make sure he still had the support of the Republicans
in the second Congressional District.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, it was a challenging year in that regard. I
credit don you know, Don, he's a general General Bacon, right,
He's very much the leader of his team, of his operation.
I think it's tough this district right, over a certain
period of time. To be successful in a district that
Kamala Harris won by five, that President Biden in twenty
twenty one by six and a half, can't be a

(03:01):
total firebrand to the right individual in Congress. So you
have to take votes like on the infrastructure bill right
Congress from Bacon. First of all, that bill and that
vote were good for the district, but those are things
that upset your base and over time you erode you know,
that portion of the electorate, and that kind of came

(03:21):
to a head in twenty twenty four in my opinion,
but Don Don ultimately is a conservative. He's proven that
he can defeat the Democrats here five times in a row.
We spent millions against him thirty million total over five
years they spent trying to defeat Don Bacon. That guy
is a warrior and a winner for the conservative cause
and we have to remember that, right.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Well, and that's the other thing too. You mentioned twenty
twenty twenty four is the blue dot is? I mean
it is? It definitely is. And there was some discussion
as so, well, no, it's really more red than it
is blue. And I just had to kind of push
back on that. Is just look at every other race
and somehow a Republican is winning the district to represent

(04:07):
these people in Washington, DC. It takes a special individual
to do that. Now, as you are hitting this consulting
phase of looking at more than one race at a time,
this is going to be a challenge for the Republicans
to hold this seat. Now with the retirement of Don Bacon.
Now there are a couple of important names that are
involved in the race, including Brinker Harding, who I know

(04:29):
you know and made his big announcement. We've talked about,
you know, his chances to not just be the Republican
nominee but also to potentially take that seat. But I
know the Democrats see this is a great opportunity for
them to take the seat. How do you see this
second congressional district playing out now with the retirement of
Don Bacon.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
So I can't say this more plainly. It is the
Democrat's number one target around the country. So it's hard
to wrap our heads around this. As people living in Nebraska,
a largely read state. There were three congressional districts in
America that Kamala Harris won where the Republican also won.
Three congressional districts that Harris one and the Republican one

(05:09):
in twenty twenty four. One was New York seventeen Mike
Lawler the suburbs of New York City. Another one was Pennsylvania,
Pennsylvania's first district of Brian Fitzpatrick the suburbs of Philadelphia.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Out of those guys, do it, well, we'll get it.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
We can get into that. But the third one, Omaha, Nebraska, right.
Isn't that crazy to be in the same group as
the suburbs of Philadelphia in New York, two of the
most liberal cities in America. The reason for that is
all the entire city of Omaha is within the second
congressional district. It is no metro, no larger metro area

(05:50):
is confined within a congressional district, like Chicago is all
split up, Phoenix has split up, Dallas has split up,
Houston is split up. There's no larger city confined within
an entire congressional district than Omaha. So that's why we're
lumped in with them.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
That is very interesting, and well, you know, has there
been more radio chatter about district shapes and district sizes
than we've had over the last two or three months
with all this redistricting that some of these other states
are trying to do to try to combat this. So
Matthew Zachary, a political consultant joining us here. I with
that being said, and you know, you look at the

(06:28):
Republicans that are running for this seat, is it possible
they could win this? I mean possible maybe the wrong word,
but did certainly everything, especially if you look at the
mayoral race and the turnout that occurred, And I think
we were all a bit surprised about the margin of
victory for John Ewing Junior over a longtime incumbent in

(06:49):
Jeene Stothard, who really it felt like there wasn't a
lot that we had going wrong in Omaha yet without
any sort of scandal, without any sort of you know,
I mean, the biggest thing was a street car that
was already twenty years in motion. That was the biggest
talking point, I think, along with public safety. But for
the Democrat who you know, this is no direspect to

(07:14):
John Ewing, but he had been around for a while,
he had been in public service for a long time,
and he runs this campaign and then pretty soundly defeats
the incumbent who had been there for a long time.
Makes it kind of wonder how blue Omaha is trending
right now. And if this is something that a brinker
Harding or you know, any Republican honestly could stunt this

(07:38):
without the help of Don Bacon. So how would you
kind of grade this race without Bacon being involved? And
can the Republicans still rely on Omaha in this second
congressional district still at least being partially read well.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
First of all, I think Omaha missus marristothrit very much.
I think we're seeing that play out with even the
first few months of the Ewing administration with Mayri Stothart,
we had a mayor that always supported our police, always
had their backs, and I think in the last few
months we've seen there's a little contrasts with our current
mayor on that issue. To speak to the demographics of

(08:17):
the district's what's nice about CD two Nebraska second District
is it is not only the city of Omaha, so
it's all Douglas County. The parts of Douglas County that
aren't Omaha are like sixty five thirty five red, right,
and then you get the western portions of Starpey County
which are sixty five thirty five red also, and then

(08:40):
Saunders County. All of Saunders County. It's a small number
of voters, but they turn out. At least for Kyrison Bacon,
they turned out seventy six to twenty four Republican so
Governor Pillen in twenty twenty two won the second district.
Senator Ricketts in twenty twenty four defeated Preston Love in
the second district, the makeup of the district wants to

(09:01):
vote red. The reality is, and sometimes it's hard to
communicate this political point because I think most of us
support the policies of the president. But we all have
friends and family that we know that probably agree with
the president on policies, but just can't get past some
of the personality parts. Right, It's just the reality, no doubt.

(09:24):
So there are eleven thousand people that voted for Kamala
Harris in twenty twenty four that also voted for Carson Bacon, right,
And if you look at that, that's about five percent
of the electorate, and that was pretty much the spread
between the two of them.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
And you look at how close that race was every
single time around for Don Bacon to find a way
still and especially because the CD two also voted Trump before, right, Biden.
I mean, like it is competitive at least, it's competitive
no matter how you slice and dice it. But you
mentioned all the money that's also come in and try

(10:00):
to defeat Don Bacon, and now with that they're not
being an incumbent, who do you think, you know, would
you handicapped to be kind of the front runner on
the Democrat side that you think they're going to rally
behind or do you think they're kind of let the
voters kind of sort that out first before they get
to the candidate, and then they're going to put all
of the resources into.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Whatever candidate that's going to be.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
How do you see this playing out over the next
you know, six to eight months before we get really
to the sprint to the finish line.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Right, So, conventional wisdom in mainstream media and Democrat circles,
which they're conventional wisdom, thankfully, is usually very wrong, is
that the Democrats are basically a shoe in to win
this seat because Don's retiring, right, Don Bacon's their unicorns,
some one they could never defeat, which Don is an
incredible man, is a friend, he is, his bio, and

(10:51):
the things he's done in Congress, he deserved to be
re elected five re elected, four times elected initially the
first time that it said, though, that conventional wisdom, I
think gets turned on its head when you consider there
are five well funded, serious Democrats running on their side

(11:11):
of the aisle, and we have two candidates on the
Republican side, Brinker right now on fundraising and another multiple
other factors the front runner, so we have a relatively
clean primary. They have a very messy horse race to
the left. So John Cavanaugh, right, here's this guy that's
supposed to be this Union Irish Catholic Democrat moderate last

(11:34):
week announces the endorsement of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and
pledges on social media to join the Progressive Caucus if
he's reelected. That demonstrates because his fundraising is terrible. Right.
This Denise Powell, who Tony Vargus endorsed, has raised like
seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars, pretty much double what

(11:55):
John Kavanaugh is raised. So from Kavanaugh's perspective, he's nervous, right, sure,
So what does he do? He goes and pledges to
join the House Progressive Caucus if he's elected, to get
that money to get so then there's gonna be money
coming in from those groups for him. Those are people
AOC is in the House Progressive Caucus, right, Rashida talib

(12:17):
is in the House Progressive Caucus, Ilhan Omar. I mean,
these are the types of people that seemingly harmless John
Kavanaugh is pledging to join. I mean, it just goes
to tell you it's going to be a race to
the left on their side, which is a gift to
the Republican side right because it's going to be much
harder to appeal to the center after their primary than

(12:38):
our primary.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
I can tell you that that's a really interesting point,
and you know something we're going to get to see
play out firsthand here as we get to the future
in twenty twenty six. I had to ask you, know,
as somebody who is a political consultant and somebody who's
worked with Republicans specifically, and you're a young guy, you
you know, you relate to gen Z. You have the
opportunity to kind of see how the young people are

(13:01):
viewing politics because you're kind of seeing it through your
lens and with the people you grew up with and
the people you went to school with. There seems to
be a real rift building here between the MAGA movement
in Donald Trump specifically and some of the people who
were kind of brought up through this, and that includes

(13:21):
the Marjorie Taylor Greens of the world. He's had spats
with Tucker Carlson and Elon Musk. Obviously, there are Republicans
like Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins and Mitch McConnell and
Ran Paul and Thomas Massey, who are all not really
batting for Donald Trump every single time that he has
some agenda item that he wants to push forward. How

(13:42):
do you see it from your angle, both as someone
who's a gen zer, a young person who you know
Republicans are desperately trying to win over, but also what
it could mean for Republicans is they try to hold
control of Congress in twenty twenty six.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
Well, I think it's really important as Republicans. Republicans our
strength as conservatives as we care about the individual, right.
We are individual minded people, right, Whereas I think you
look at the more liberal ideological side of the spectrum,
they're much more collectivists, right, and they're thinking more about

(14:18):
the group than the individual. So I think I think
being individuals as part of our strength as Republicans. We
don't have to agree on everything, We're not a monolith
of thought. At the same time, we need to be
a big tent party, right, So it takes a lot
of types of Republicans to build a majority in the House,
especially with a very narrow house. I don't know what

(14:42):
today's majority count is but it seems to fluctuate every
day between two and.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Five based on what we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
So I think it's important that we unite on the
things we agree on, like the President's agenda. We had
tax cuts that we're going to expire. The average Nebraskan's taxes,
We're going to go up twenty three percent their income
taxes if we didn't pass the Big Beautiful Bill or
the working Family's tax cut. Those are things that all
Republicans were able to unite on, except maybe one or two.

(15:12):
But I think that there are certainly some differences on
foreign policy, especially with Israel. I think the President is
right to lead. The Republican Party is a pro Israel party,
and I think some of the people, specifically Tucker and
Marjorie Taylor Green that are anti Israel. I think it's

(15:33):
fair to be critical of the government of Israel. But
when those when those things start to hinge on a
borderline anti Semitic or full full on anti Semitic.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
There's a fine line there.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
There's a fine line, but there's also a very clear line,
and once you cross it, it's very clear. So I
think those are where you're seeing some of those things
play out, and there are disagreements to be had on
foreign aid. I think those are things we can discuss.
But when they when they devolve to personal or racial

(16:07):
you know undertones, Yeah, that's a problem. I think from
the gen Z perspective, we want most young people are
focused on affordability and can we achieve the American dream
in this country? Realistically, most most people I know can't
afford the price of a new home or or can't
put a down payment on a home.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
We were talking about this on Friday, about how we
have gotten so bad with the inflation and how prices
have just skyrocketed home the average home price in Omaha
in the eighties, you know, because our parents and our grandparents,
you know, they tell us, well, this is how it
was for us, and everything is more expensive. And I

(16:49):
totally understand that. And another argument is, you know, wages
have also gone up, and that's true. Has everything been proportional?
It hasn't been. We looked at at last week in
how the inflation dollars what they should look like for
a new house, a new car, for college tuition, and
we did the math for somebody in Omaha who had
to get a four year degree from either you and

(17:09):
O or for from you know, a public institution like
you and L. They're spending like one hundred thousand more dollars.
We're having to go an additional one hundred thousand dollars
in debt each to get those things from like as
a whole. So how do we solve that problem? Because

(17:30):
that's another thing you're hearing Marjorie talk about. So it's
like Donald Trump keeps talking about prices going down. We
haven't seen that in like tangible evidence yet. And our
young people are having a hard time not just getting
employed in a lot of cases, but finding the way
to get enough money to start that American dream.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
Right. So I think this is a couple of things
if we have time for it. First of all, I
think I think people need to understand, and this is
kind of a hard truth. Once prices go reach a point,
they're not coming down. Yeah, So when we talk about
prices coming down, what we really need to be talking
about is slowing the rate of growth of prices. Right,
once serial reaches three dollars, it's not going to go

(18:11):
back down to two fifty. It says, how long does
it take to get to three? Twenty five, we're slowing
that period of time, right, So, not to be a pessimist,
but we have to talk about that reality.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
But it's reality, that's the reality.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
The second thing, and I think this is what's particularly
problematic about the election of Zoron Mamdani turning to socialism
as a solution to affordability. And we're seeing this play
out with the whole healthcare Obamacare subsidy crisis that the
Democrats are calling it. So Obamacare has been subsidized twice

(18:45):
with taxpayer dollars to make it more affordable, which to
me is case in point that it's not affordable. If
it has to be subsidized, it's not affordable. But when
you throw money at things, especially at private things like
insurance companies, they pocket that money and keep the prices
the same. Right, Yeah, So when you throw money at things,

(19:05):
it doesn't lower the cost of them. If anything, is
an incentive to keep the cost of the same or increase it.
So I think we have to look at a bloated
federal government when we're spending a trillion dollars a year
on the interest payment on our debt, which for the
first time last year exceeded our military spending. Our military
spending last year was eight hundred and fifty billion dollars

(19:27):
and we spent a trillion dollars on our debt. Wow,
that trillion dollars is like a quarter of our federal budget,
and that's mandatory spending. What Doge did, which I applaud
to dose, but that went at discretionary spending. That's like
twenty six twenty seven percent of our budget. That's you know,
if you're cutting a billion here or three billion there,
it's great, but those are drops in the bucket we

(19:48):
need to get as the mandatory spending, which is seventy
two percent of the budget, that's the interest on our debt.
That's Social Security and Medicare, Medicaid, all those things. Snap.
We need to look at getting rid of fraud in
those things to make sure that our text dollars and
people are paying aren't being spent fraudulently. And that addresses
the affordability crisis. In my mind.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
It's a different angle than a lot of people are
talking about because they want to just see the number
goes down. It's like, I just want to make sure
that my budget. I can bounce my own personal budget
now that's a very different conversation than the one that
people are thinking that it's possible, and it's good to hear.
What is reality, honestly, that you're slowing trying to slow

(20:30):
at least the rate of inflation. Now, with that being said,
I really we got to throw all the politics stuff.
I really want to talk food. This guy is a foodie,
and Matthew's acker is going to tell us some of
his Thanksgiving secrets ahead of you preparing your big Thanksgiving meal.
I would say we're functioning on a certain number of levels.
But I think when you get to this point the

(20:52):
week before Thanksgiving, your mind starts to wander to your
holiday plans or whatever you have kind of lined up
for the holidays. And I got my friend Matthew Zacher here,
who is much more of a food guy than I am.
I love to eat food. I've never been super interested
in preparing food. Now, my producer Peyton, you've you've talked
about enjoying food and watching the Food Network and things

(21:14):
like that. Remind me how interested you? How you got
interested in food?

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (21:20):
This was a walk home from school every day. A
Pioneer Woman was on TV. Pioneer Woman read Drummond my
absolute favorite. I love the Food Network. I even got
a couple of cookbooks signed by her in the Twin
Creek Bakers. But yeah, I love cooking. Baking is a
little bit more my favorite, but I love I love
being in the kitchen.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
You and Matthew Zacher here need to get together on
some ideas because this guy is a food aholic.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
How did you get into food?

Speaker 3 (21:45):
Well, I'm a little triggered by the red drumming thing,
to be honest, pioneer woman, because I think she's just
kind of a fraud. Oh am, I allowed to say that?

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Oh well, I mean you said it. I mean you
and Peyton might just have to throw down after.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Assume me personally, I am an isda Garden person.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Oh that's why she was.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
She was either before or after one of the two
like that. Yeah, not right next to each other in
the time slot.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, so there you go. All right, So, but you
had the similar story. You watched the Food Now work.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
So I grew up in Arizona and the Food Network
was channel forty six and Fox News was forty seven.
So my right thumb got a lot of exercise. I'd
go up and down forty six forty seven. I think
Ina Garten is the goat personal outright. In fact, I
in one of my college essays, one of the questions was,

(22:35):
if you could be any person on the face of
the earth, who would you be? In like a hundred words,
I said, I would want to be Jeffrey Garden's husband.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Oh, I was going to say. I was going to say,
did you want to be her? But thanks for clearing that.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
No, you don't want to be her. You want to
eat her food? You want to eat Yeah, I say
that jokingly. Obviously there's I would not want to be
anyone but me. I mean, we're all here for a reason.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Oh yeah, yeah, sure, that's a joke.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
But I mean if you could be someone else, that's
pretty good.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
That's a that's a good one. And so what what
was what about the food hit for you? Because this
wasn't just about the eating the food. You like to
prepare the food.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
I did, but I learned, like what you said about
loving to eat food, I learned pretty quickly that if
you'd like to eat food, one of the easiest ways
to eat food is to cook cook food.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, and you get to control how good the food is.
That you're cooking, right.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
So I was about eleven or twelve. Tuesdays and Thursdays,
I'd have basketball practice, and my basketball coach was a
total jerk. Oh no, that's me saying that nicely. Oh boy.
So we would have to run sprints after practice, like seventeens,
and if the whole team didn't do the seventeens seventeen
half court it's hard when you look at me now,
it's hard to see that I did many sprints. But

(23:50):
if the whole team didn't make it in like a
minute in five seconds, we'd have to do it again.
So sometimes we'd have to do this like twelve times.
Oh man, it was excruciating. I did not look forward
to it. Also, Tuesdays and Thursdays was Chopped on the
Food Network. Oh yeah, so when I was at practice
basketball practice, running sprints, I would think about how much
I look forward to going home and watching Chopped.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
You got to get home that, yeah, right, So.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
That was It sounds really goofy, but that's how I looks.
That's how the whole food neverything started. I thought the
competition part was fun, and also watching the food and
hourg you learn at Peyton I'm sure you've experienced this
as well. By watching people cook things on the fly,
you learn how to cook on the fly, right, so
you you develop less of a dependence on recipes instead

(24:34):
on just how to cook things and what goes well together. Right.
So I was around eleven twelve, I'm running these sprints
and then coming home and watching Chopped, and I just
I fell in love with the whole cooking thing and
the creativity part of it, but also providing a meal
for people that you love, that they that they enjoy. Now,
initially not everything I cooked was was that enjoyable, But

(24:56):
over time I got pretty good. And now it's like
fifteen years later and I I think I make some
pretty killer food.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Well that's the other thing too, Matthew. I see somebody
with this type of experience and passion, and it makes
me feel like, why aren't you a chef?

Speaker 3 (25:13):
Well, the restaurant business is a very difficult.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Business, and politics is it?

Speaker 3 (25:18):
People already excuse me, They're like, Matthew, what do you do?
You're working with politics? There's no money in politics, which
is true in some respects, but there's also probably too
much money in politics. It depends on who you are right,
But the restaurant business, I commend people that, and locally
in Omaha, we have so many amazing restaurants and restaurant
tours and people that have such pride in their restaurants

(25:39):
and their businesses. But it's so hard to run a restaurant.
Like ninety percent of restaurants fail. Like there are almost
as many failures of restaurants as there are marriages. Right, So.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
That was a joke. Oh ah, it was a joke.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
I was making a joke. It was probably it was
probably a joke, but probably. But the restaurant business is
so hard, so I think it almost people do such
a great job and supporting local bars and restaurants. It's
really important to do that.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Uh, before I have hit a break and then we're
gonna get to a couple of your yeah, a couple
of your ideas.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
But it's Thanksgiving, the food holiday.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Oh it's the It's the quid essential food holiday.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
So so you're you're gearing up, you know, like this
is it's like my super Bowl.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Okay, there's Election Day and there's Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
The November is a big month.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
It's a big mud. Thanksgiving can get can be really
happy or really sad. Thankfully, I've only had happy Thanksgivings,
but yeah, for sure, you know, eventually perhaps we might
have a sad Thanksgiving.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
But well, what we're gonna do is we got a
happy Thanksgiving coming, and I'm gonna quizzle you on a
couple of the items here of that you're you're planning
to prepare people should think about, including dispatchcock, which we
have to revisit because it was a concept that blew
my mind. You know, I mean, you're a food enthusiast,
but you're also just you're crazy about making food, eating food,

(26:58):
and Thanksgiving is like you said, your super Bowl. Let's
revisit the spatchcock real quick, or you spatch is dispatchcock
on the menu this year? What does dispatchcock?

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Again? Explain this to the people.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
So, spatchcock is not a swear word, so you don't
need to you don't need to.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Believe that spatchcock.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, so, uh, dispatchcock is the answer to a problem
that the turkey itself creates. And I will get to
my explanation for that. Right, So, the difficult thing about
cooking a turkey is the breast meat, the white meat,
and the dark meat. Right, the legs and the thighs

(27:35):
of the dark meat the breast.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Meats the white meat.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
Right, they cook at different durations of time, or they're
done at different temperatures, I should say. So the breash
meat you can typically take it out of the oven
at one hundred and fifty degrees fahrenheit. The government recommends
one sixty five for both. That is incorrect. Not everything
the government says is correct.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Color me shocked on that one.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
It's crazy. So the breast meat you can take, you
can take it out of the oven at one fifty.
It's safety. It's juicy, not dry. The dark meat takes
longer to cook. The breast meats lean, right, very lean,
very little fat, very little connective tissue. The dark meat
has a lot of fat and connective tissue which takes
longer to break down. So the dark meat's done at

(28:20):
one sixty five, the breast meat's done at one fifty. Right. Yeah,
So you have the same bird and two different parts
of the bird are done at different temperature.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
And you don't want to rip it apart before you
put it.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
Out, right, it's one turkey. So so that's the problem, right,
and the spatch cock is the solution.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
All right, So spatch cock meat.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Right, So you don't want that. You don't want that,
you don't want that to happen, So dispatch cock. Uh,
you don't want that because that would mean removing your backbone.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
Oh that's okay.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Now you're already kind of known for oh.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
That hit, that hits.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
I mean it's kind of a joke. But anyway, no,
explain to me the process here.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
So by removing the backbone, you take the bird, which
structurally the breast sits above the legs and the thighs. Right,
So the breasts are exposed to all the heat, but
they cook faster, right, So they're done at one fifty degrees,
So the breasts are getting all the heat on it, right,
but they're covering up the legs and the thighs underneath,
which take longer to cook. So when you spash cock it,

(29:25):
you take out the backbone, pressed down on the breastplate
like a chiropractor. Like a chiropractor pop, you know. Okay,
you can wear one of those little microphones like you
see on the Instagram.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Oh yeah, that ASMR. That's right. Yeah, yeah, that's good stuff.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
So basically, then the birds all laying flat equally exposed
to the heat, and that way you close the gap
I'm using I'm gesticulating like crazy in here.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
I know I like it though you close the gating.
I'm getting the idea visually because of the way that
you're it's.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Hard to explain. It would be helpful to have a
TV situation in this case. But you even out the
time it takes for both parts of the bird to
cook by letting it all flat, so they're equally exposed
to the heat. In fact, the thighs and the legs
are actually elevated above the breast in this method.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Which is good because they are you know, the legs
and thighs being elevated above the breast make it easier
for the heat to you know, cook it equally envelop
right at the same temperature, right across the board, so
everything thing is cooked properly at the same time at
the same time.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Crap the by the legs right right right.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
So the other thing that people are often set up
for failure with is the roasting pan. So if you
think of a roasting pan, they've got higher sides right right,
And what do those do? They protect the legs and
the thighs even more so theres the breasts are already
cooking faster than the legs and the thighs just because
of their makeup, right, And then you're shielding the legs

(30:52):
and the thighs with the size of the pan, so
even less heat is getting to the legs and the thighs.
So the second part addition to the spashcock. This year, I
am recommending, okay, get rid of that roasting pan. It's
not doing you any favors.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Okay, So what would we use then?

Speaker 3 (31:07):
A big baking sheet? Oh, just an aluminium big baking sheet.
They're cheaper, they're easier to transport, and they will allow
that hot air to equally circulate around the turkey, contributing
to even more even cooking. The second great part about
it not only the even temperature of the internal you know,
meet the legs and the thighs and the breast, but

(31:30):
the skin gets even crispy or the more hot air circulates.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
And I love that.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
You got to have crispy skin.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Crispy skin is part of it.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
I'm one of those guys like I want I want
to pull my section of bird out, but I also
want to make sure I get some of that skin
in there because I'm one of those fried chicken guys too,
And he says, like the.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Skin's like the best part.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
You gotta have it.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
It's just tasty.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
What other things on top of the turkey are you
planning to prepare that you are very excited about.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
That might be a bit of a surprise to people so.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
Critical. So when you make your bird, do it this way.
Put celery, carrots, onion, garlic, apples, lemons, Lay that disos up,
lay them on the bottom. Put a rack on top
of that like a wire rack. Then put your spatchcock bird.
Put in the oven on a baking sheet, right, and
then when all that's done cooking, take it out, take

(32:22):
the juices, strain them, separate the fat, use all that
turkey juice, all all the aromatics, the celery, carrots, onion, apples, lemons,
and put that in your gravy. And it's delicious. A
few other things to add your gravy that I think obviously,
you start with a root, butter and flour. That's your base.

(32:44):
Take the backbone from the turkey that you spatch cocked.
Put that on the burner, okay, with some with some
store bought chicken stock, then you're making kind of a
souped up chicken stock because you got the turkey backbone
in there. He's using all the parts that we are tailed.
What is it beak to tail?

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Oh yeah, beak to tail. You eat the beak too, No,
we don't. I didn't know the beak was still with it.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
So, but but take that stock and then thicken your
root and then add in adding those those parts. A
few things I recommend adding to your gravy to make
it a little more you know, get get the glands
in the back of your throat a little more activated.
If you will, some dejhon mustard, a little apple cider
or apple cider vinegar, and some white wine. Pop open

(33:34):
a bottle of white wine. Sip that as you're making
your gravy. Put some in the gravy pairs. It gives
you a little more acidity to cut through everything. That's
my that's my Thanksgiving tips for today.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
You know, Matthew Zacher, do you do this on social media?
Do you have like a YouTube channel? Because you should.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
I have a very private Instagram called Maddie's E Cooks.
That's no longer that private. Evidently, m A. T. T.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Y Z Cooks, matty z Cooks, Well, matt e Z,
this was incredibly educational. I will suggest to the people
who are making the turkey for our Thanksgiving, whom I
do not know who responsibility that is yet, which is
probably a problem, But as soon as I figure that out,
I'm going to suggest have you ever tried to spatchcock

(34:19):
your turkey? And I'll see what the reaction is and
if I have any trouble I'm going to point them
right to matty z Cooks on Instagram. Matthew Zacher fantastic stuff.
Thank you so much for being a part of the
show and for what you do for politics here in Omaha.
Can't wait to chat with you again.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
It was fun. Thank you guys very much.