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October 6, 2024 • 41 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Food for Thought with Billy and Jenny,
brought to you by the Box Center. For more than
fifteen years, this dining duo has been eating their way
through New England, mixing it up with top chefs, jumping
behind the line of the hottest restaurants and giving you
the inside scoop on where to wine, dine and spend
your time. So get ready, it's Food for Thought giving
you something to chew on.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hey, everybody, welcome into Food for Thought. Billy Costa here,
Jenny's got the week off. Oh, before I say another word,
Jenny would be so mad if I didn't say this.
But Jenny Johnson and I have a new cookbook. Aj
did you even know this? You know I heard a
little something about it. Yeah, we're launching a new cookbook.
It's called Taste of Boston and it features sixty of

(00:44):
the top chefs in Boston and their recipes and anecdotal
stories and stories about when Jenny and I met the
chefs and how long we've known each other. Anyway, it's
a great book for the holidays, and you can get
You can pre order on Amazon, or you can go
to meet Boston dot com. Slash cookbook or I'm told

(01:06):
you can go to my Instagram at the Billy Costa
and click the link into what are up. I never
thought i'd say those words. And I have such a
special guest in the studio with me right now talking
about launching product. John taffer step up to the microphone
and welcome to Food for Thought.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
You know Billy, the famous Billy cost A, Boston legend,
my buddy, So it's an honor to be here with you.
I was looking forward to it.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
You didn't grow up in Boston, but I bet you're
a bigger legend than me or anyone else in this
New England area. John taffericks, thanks, Oh my god. People
love your shows. You've had multiple shows obviously bar Rescue.
You're in here. You have a new product. It's it's
a beautiful bourbon.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
And I got to have a sip of bourbon in
the early morning hours at the iHeartRadio headquarters and I
got to tell you it's delicious.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
John, It's an interesting story how it was created. Well,
tell us I never woke up and said I'm going
to make brown butter bourb and I was walking through
my kitchen and a cook is making some brown butter. Yea,
and the smell got me. And I've done now two
hundred and seventy two episodes of Bar Rescue Billy, five
cocktails every episode. How many old fashions can I do?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
So every you can drink on the show.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
We have to make the cocktails, of course, and the
customers drink them, et cetera. So every week it's a
challenge to come up with new cocktails, new mixers, new ingredients,
and then we look at the regional elements and what
regional flavors can we introduce. Obviously in Atlanta, peach and
there's all these different regional influences as such that we
can do. And I'm always looking for new ideas. So

(02:43):
I take this brown butter, I pour it in a
souvied cooking bag, I pour in whiskey, seal it, boil
it for four hours, take it out of the hot water,
put it in a walk in refrigerator. The butter coagulates
to the top, skimmed it off, poured it through, leave
it or not a coffee filter, and brown butter bourbon

(03:04):
was born.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
WHOA.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
It was cloudy, and it was technically a dairy product,
so it would have gone bad at some point because
it had dairy in it. So we put it in
a cocktail in a restaurant called the Campfire. We start
selling almost one thousand a month of these cocktails, the
most we've ever sold of anything.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
So I realized, Okay, we got to bring this to market.
So I called a friends of mine at the Agio,
who were really gracious, saying, let me use their flavorhouse
to develop out the flavor. And we wanted to do
a couple of things. Some of the other flavored bourbons
are seventy proof. We're eighty proof.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Mixibility very very That's why I'm suddenly saying I could
have told me earlier.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
John, But that eighty proof makes it much more mixable, Billy, right,
than the seventy proof product would be. The other thing
is is we wanted it bourbon first, bourbon last, flavor
profile in the middle, and that's what you experience when
you taste it, when you think about it.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
And it has a companion candle or is that just
a candle that's just a Greek smells like the bourbon.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
So we introduced a product here in Boston. We could
have picked any city. I was telling you earlier born here.
So when we could pick any city to launch it in,
I picked my home city of Las Vegas, and I
had to pick a second city. I picked Boston. That's
a long way from Las Vegas. So yeah, it wasn't
the most convenient choice. But I love this city. You know,
I used to have offices here in Newton when I

(04:25):
ran the nightclub and bar media group. I went to
summer camp in Pittsfield for many years. I do, and
I love this city. It's a very discerning marketplace. And
I don't want to sound like the song in New York,
New York, but I'm serious in the food and beverage business.
If you can be successful in Boston, which is a
discerning market, a highly educated market, then you can roll

(04:47):
out in other cities. So that was our logic and
we're thrilled we're doing great.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Are you calling us a bunch of drinkers, John? Now?

Speaker 3 (04:54):
I think I think yes, Goule Boston Bar, you guys
know how to get down drink.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
It's being of which you're suggesting certain custom made cocktails
that go along with the bourbon. The holidays are coming up,
people are looking for entertainment ideas so on.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Our website, we have a whole bunch of new winter cocktails,
which are great. Some of them here are really fun.
We have the Apple Cider Collins, right, we have the
I can't even read these jingle bell punch on.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Because your team working over your shoulder, and if you
screw this up, you're going to be in trouble.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Then the paper plane. So we'll leave these with you.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
But these, oh yeah, are some of our winter cocktail ideas.
Uh so, okay, So you spent a lot of your
earlier life here in the Boston area, right, do you
get back here often? And do you have restaurants in
the Boston area that you love?

Speaker 3 (05:40):
Oh? Oh absolutely, I'm going tonight, for example, to Almanove.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Oh my god, Paul Wahlberg.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
Of course, Paul's a dear friend of mine. Donnie's a
dear friend of mine. Donnie. I shouldn't say this, but
you're going to see Donnie next season in the bar
rescue episode. Oh, which is sort of fun. But yeah,
the Wallburg's are dear friends of mine. So I go
to that restaurant because they're my buddies. It's a great restaurant.
Paul is a great chef. They do a really good
job there, So every time we're in town, we try

(06:07):
to go over there.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
Okay, wait for it, Okay, aj, you probably know where
I'm going. I am known as the sixth new Kid.
Really yeah, okay, look everybody's laughing. Oh really, no for real.
In fact, I just talked about my cookbook. Mark Wahlberg
did the forward in the cookbook. I did you mention that?
Uh yeah, I go way back with the guys, and

(06:28):
Paul Wahlberg is a one of the most generous guys
I know, one of the best chefs in the area.
And obviously he's the executive chef for all Wallburgers, but
his Almonove restaurant. I take my boat there probably four
times this summer just to go to his restaurant. Wow,
oh my god.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
I didn't know you had to have to send text
to Donnie as soon as I leave here. But yeah,
matter of fact, you might know. They just announced their
residency in Las Egas.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
They had to extend it.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
I just got to text. They had to extend it
two times.

Speaker 4 (06:57):
Come on with both new kids here.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
So they just did a second extension on it.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
So, yeah, I live in Vegas. I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Of course, I'm gonna hang with Donna. He's in town
for months and then we're just in town again. Here
the new kids. We love him. We've got to take
a quick break. This is awesome. We've got John Taffer
in the studio, live and one of the coolest guys,
one of the most talented guys. We haven't even started
talking about bar rescue yet, and we will. And I
know you've got some stories from old Hollywood and things

(07:25):
like that. Anyway, it's Food for Thought. I'm Billy cost
We have to take a break. We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
You're listening to Food for Thought, brought to you by
the Box Center and Salem Waterfront Hotel in sweets.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Hey, guys, welcome back to Food for Thought. Is this
is a great episode. I'm so excited John Taffer is
joining us. And we just talked about your new bourbon.
Where can people get it?

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Oh, pretty much everywhere. Yeah, it's all over town, in
almost every liquor store in town.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
And is the biggest challenge getting it in places. That's
going to be the big fight now.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
That it is. Well, there's two issues. You want to
get it in places, but you don't want to get
it in places where it doesn't sell. Right, Sitting on
a shelf gaining dust doesn't do anything for him. Yeah,
So we want to put it in places where it's
going to sell through because resell statistics and the alcohol
businesses everything, how many bottles do they resell a month?
If you don't resell it, you're not going to leave
it on your shelf either as a store operator and

(08:15):
for a bar operator. We want to be on menus.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
And brown liquors have never been bigger.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
That's right. So we're on about one hundred and fifty
menus throughout the city. Wow, Paul's restaurant is one of them.
But we're on menus throughout the city and I feel
like calling Paul right. And every time we're on a menu,
it sells like hell, it's a great flavor brown butter.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Okay, so the bourbon is out. We got to talk
about bar rescue, and I mean, this is your baby,
just people love you. And I was kind of searching
around a couple of nights ago and I'm seeing these
stories on John Taffer and everything's like, where in the
world is John Taffer? Where's he been? And it was
almost like an anxious anger like this. I can't believe
he hasn't been there for two episodes. The show's not

(08:55):
the same without him, is it a hell? Are you okay?
First of all, we found John Tafford right here on
Food for Thought in Boston. Who knew?

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Who knew? I came out of my whole. No, here's
the story. I've been doing the show for thirteen years,
two hundred and seventy two episodes. I'm in record books,
and the network wants to show for a few more years.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
That's a good thing.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
I want to do the show for a few more years.
But they wanted forty episodes this year.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
It's a lot.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Every episode is a week on a road. That's forty
weeks on a road. And I'm not going to Paris, France, guys.
I'm not going through the most appealing places in the world.
An episode takes a week, takes four days to shoot,
but by the time you go there, you shoot it,
and you come home, it's six days at a week. Yeah,
so I didn't want to do all forty episodes. I'm

(09:43):
executive producer of the show, sure, and I worked directly
for the network as executive producer of the show. So
my agreement with the network was we would try some
other guest hosts for some of the additional episodes. I
agreed to do half of them, twenty of them, just
twenty weeks on a road. Yeah, and I'll produce all
the So I'm still.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Working the ones you're not on your producing.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
I'm still executive producer, you bet. So I'm involved in
a remodels. I look at all the pictures that we
work with the team. I coached the new hosts, you know,
and spend time with the new host trying to coach
them and guide.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Well, one of your hosts is Jason Santos. He's sting
outside the studio right now.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
One of the best guest coast we had this season
was Jason.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
He's a great chef.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yes, and you know, for Bar Rescue, a host can't
just be a chef or a bartender mixologist. They have
to be a restaurant owner or bar.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Owner, absolutely, because we're dealing with owners and owner crises,
not per se bartender crises.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
So that's why Jason is an owner. He is a
great guest host, and we're buddies, you know, we go back.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
By the way. Jason has citrus and soft he has
buttermilk and bourbon. He has the new place, butter Bird.
You know him as the chef with the electric blue hair.
How do you First of all, have you ever rescued bar,
bars or nightclubs in this area?

Speaker 4 (10:57):
And we have.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
We did it Bedford, Medford.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
This is Medford, and then there's also a Bedford.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
I think it was Bedford. We did an operation in
Bedford years ago, and a couple of others the after
two hundred and seventy two. It's difficult to remember all
over the day of the truth.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Do you remember any like one or two places that
actually like stand out, like you think back and say,
how in the world did we save that place?

Speaker 3 (11:25):
There's a few of them, you know. Some come to
mind that are shocking to me. You know, the famous
pirate bar is one of them. Okay, And when I
met these people and they had this pirate themed bar,
I couldn't believe it. So I went out to their
cars and I inspected and they were pirates. Twenty four
hours a day. These people, they believed they were pirates.
They could not speak non pirate absolutely right. Billion was unbelievable.

(11:50):
This was in Maryland, just outside of a Silver Spring, Maryland. Okay,
and it's a famous bar rescue episode, and man, we
went at it. But you know, in bar rescue and
here's the the backstory and bar Rescue. I show up
on the first day at about five thirty six o'clock
at night. I literally get a sixty second briefing. Right,
Billy and Georgia are and business together. They're in debt
to half a million dollars. They got enough money to

(12:12):
make it two more months. Billy's lost his house, the
other guy's about to. They're ready to kill each other.
That's all I know. I go in, I do recon.
I don't know what's going to happen. If you're nice,
I'm nice. If you're belligerent, I'm going to be aggressive.
You know. They really create the temperature for me, so
it's real.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
You don't mess around with these people.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
There is on my mother's grave, no actor's, no scripts,
no setups, none of that.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Well that's so New England.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
That's the truth. So the cameras follow me through. I
do my thing. At the end of recon, we put
all the employees and vans in a parking lot and
I go in and I designed the bar that night,
so I have my team and at the bar, I
look at my verticals. I look at my horizontals. I
look at my demographic report. I have a custom demographic
report that's provided to me, a competitive report that's provided

(12:54):
to me, and I have to come up with a
concept and a design within about a half hour. I
do that. So now we have a general direction. We
go home back to the hotel. The next morning we
come in. I'm signing off on barstools and wallpaper. But
here's the interesting thing, Billy, I need sixty barstools in
forty eight hours. I can't get the same barstools. So
next time you see a bar rescue episode, look at

(13:16):
the reveal. Rarely do the barstools all match. Because I
can get twelve of these, ten of these, six of these,
and four of those.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
But house everything has to be done in a week.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Correct, there's no pre planning.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Remember that, how is your contract? So can a contractor
we honish in a year?

Speaker 3 (13:30):
We are So we travel with a crew of fifty
seven people, our own carpenters, our own mill people. We
have a whole construction tent that we set up on site,
and we do it all ourselves. Now we hire local painters, local,
yeahcal plumbers. So what happens then is day two we
come back. We're finishing the design on camera, I do
training and stress tests. At the end of stress tests
is the end of day two. That'll eleven o'clock at night.

(13:52):
We start remodeling. We ripped the place apart. We remodel
it all night Wednesday night, all day Thursday, and in
the morning on front thirty six hours, just like you
see on TV.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
So now the ball Dave, my contractor, are you listening
to this? I mean, really, Dave, no go.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
So then on that Friday, those same vans pull up,
they're in blindfolds, they get out, they line up, and
we do the reveal on Friday afternoon as soon as
the sun goes down. So now that you know that process.
I get briefed in the room for this particular episode.
You want to hear an episode still, Yeah, So I
get briefed and I'm told John A. Barr is owned
by a gentleman by the name of Juan Pablo. His

(14:30):
wife Edith is upset. She thinks he's cheating on her.
Oh God, he doesn't come home at night and she's
extremely upset. I said, well, then let me do recon
with Edith the wife. So Edith sits down in the
suv with me and we're watching the monitor together in
the suv, and a pretty young girl walks up to
Juan Pablo and says, are you married? And Juan Pablo says,

(14:51):
very cockily, if you will, there's no ring on this finger. Well,
Edith is watching this with me in a car. The
veins come out on her throat. She's besides herself and
she has a gift bag in her hand, and I say,
what's the gift bag for. She goes, oh, it's my
husband and my fourteenth wedding anniversary.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
I said, oh, that's nice.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
What did you get him? Divorce papers? Well, this is
all a shock to me. Wow, So now I got
eat is sitting here with divorce papers. Her husband is
prepared to take this girl home on television. So I
say to Edith, I got your back. You've never had
anybody having your back before. You need to go in
there and let your husband know that this is a
new day. You will not tolerate this anymore. She says, okay, okay.

(15:32):
She goes running inside, rips his shirt off, punches him
in her mouth. And throws a drink in his face
at the end of that a bourbon. It was a bourbon,
I think at the end of the episode. The biggest
hug I ever gotten all bar Rescue Wow is from
Juan Pablo.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
You have to promise me. I do a food travel
show here in New England called Donny Playbook. You have
to promise me if and when your team is ever
coming here or anywhere in New England to to a
bar rescue event, let me bring my cameras and we'll
piggyback and you know what kind of share show so
to speak. That could be a lot of fun.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
We invite media on set all the time. I'm proud
of it because you could you become a verifier of
how real it is.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, exactly which is? And not only that. Next time
you're in the area next summer, right, promise me come
on into Boston and we'll go out in the boat cruise.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Look forward to that. We'll be great fun.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
I'll have the elevat cater you can bring a couple
of friends. I'll bring a couple of friends.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
Excellent.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
But we've got so much more to talk about. I've
got a old Hollywood fascinates me, and I was reading
up on you and your first bar managerial post was
that the Troubadour. Yeah, that's like world famous.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
Roy that's sacred land if you will, Yeah, yeah. So
the Troubadour was opened by Doug Weston in nineteen fifty
three as sort of a coffee shop kind of place.
Elton John was discovered there, Whinda Ronstat Jackson Brown, Bruce
Springsteen and you're the manager. I was a manager there
and it was a first management job by ever had
And when I ran it, it was the twenty fifth

(17:03):
anniversary of the Troubadar, and the place was broke. When
I took over as manager. That was about three inches
of water on the floor of the entire kitchen, and
we took palate.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
It's so better to bring in butyo.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
So we took pallettes and we threw those pallettes on
the floor and we walked onto pallets and back then
and Doug, may you rest in peace. Doug had many
recreational activities and he would come in at night and
take the money out of the floor safe and go
spend it on stuff. So in the morning I had
no money. I couldn't buy liquor. I couldn't do anything,
so I.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Know what hold that thought. I'm taking a look at
the clock. We have to take a break, but when
we come back, we'll finish the story. I want to
give people all the information they need to know on
your bourbon, and I want to know when and where
Bar Rescue is going to be. It's all coming up.
We do have to take a break. It's Food for Thought.
We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
You're listening to Food for Thought, brought to you by
the Box Center and Sale in Waterfront Hotel in sweets.

Speaker 4 (17:56):
Hey, guys, welcome back to Food for Thought. John Taffer is.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Still with us from Bar Rescue and so many other shows.

Speaker 4 (18:02):
You have a show with Vivica A.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Fox. Oh, we did a couple of years ago called
She's Like the Queen of the Lifetime movie.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, we worked together on a show a few years ago. Yeah,
she's a sweetheart. That show is actually produced by a
good friend of mine, doctor Phil. Oh.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah, doctor Phil is a dear friend of mine. One
of the best guys I know actually is doctor Phil.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Okay, before we went to break, we were in the
Troubadour in West Hollywood. Take us back there. And finished that.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
So the place was flooded. We had no money. I
had the twenty fifth anniversary of the Troubado. We called everybody, Elton, John, Linda, Ronstadt, George.
They all came back for a month and we made
all the money we needed to. We fixed the place up,
queened it and it still runs to this very day. Yeah,
the history goes on.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
It's still open. I was shocked. What street is it on?

Speaker 3 (18:42):
I know it's what Santa Monica Boulevard Santa Monica, and
doheany you know? It isn't there anymore? Is Hamburger Hamlet,
which was there for many.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Many Hamlet's Hall's favorite place.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
The first gourmet hamburger really in America was Hamburger.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
That's a cool place. Wow. Okay, I've got the bourbon here.
Why did you decide to launch a bourbon?

Speaker 3 (19:03):
I didn't. I stumbled on the flavor in the kitchen
and it was so popular, So I gotta do this.
So I brought it to friends of mine in the
spirits business, and everybody tasted it. I sent it to
people who even bourbon snobs that wouldn't like a flavored bird. Yeah,
and everybody who loved it so I sort of had
to do it.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
And who better than you. You're like the god of bars.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
So we have a great platform to promote it. And
I'm thrilled. You know, Martinetti is our distributor here, who's.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Oh yeah, the legendary family obviously Ron Martinetti. Tonight, he's
got a gorgeous restaurant in Wolburn called Sonyo. Uh, and
my wife and I are going for anniversary dinner tonight.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
Well, I gotta believe one of the best distributors in
the country. Car Mine is wonderful. This is so having
them distribute for us has been wonderful. We're told by
them we're like the fourth most successful label launching the city.
So we're really thrilled.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
And you already, said Paul Wahlberg. Over there at Almanovic
is already carrying it at the bar. Where else where's
the best the easiest place for people to find your bourbon?

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Probably he's looking at the team market Basket. Market Basket
is your and I.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Didn't even know market Basket had liquor.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
At Julio's. Here's another one, and there's where to buy
on a website. We're in about six hundred stores in
the Boston area. So I'm sorry to find.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Us six hundred stores. Well, and where do we get
the candle?

Speaker 3 (20:26):
The candle's a special thing for how it is. That's
just for you, Billy.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
I can't thank you so much. And I didn't realize
when I knew you were coming in that you had
a local lot of local ties.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
It's a great city. I love this city.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
It's great to see you back here. Please feel free
to commem in next summer. Let's make a deal. You're
coming to Boston. We're going out on my boat.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
Can't wait?

Speaker 2 (20:44):
All right, John, Good to see you, buddy.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
Same here, Billy.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
I got to take a break. It's Food for Thought.
I'm Billy Costa and we'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
You're listening to Food for Thought, brought to you by
the Box Center and Sale in Waterfront Hotel and sweets.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
Hey guys, so welcome back to Food for Thought.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Billy Here. John Taffer left, and now Jason Santos is
in studio. Hey, buddy, how are you good? We were
talking about you a couple of minutes ago, So you
give me the history of you and Bar Rescue. You
landed on the show as a chef, Yes, and then
somehow became a host.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:18):
So I've been on the show, I think pushing ten
years now, and I've been on The Chef. I've done
thirty episodes, thirty five episodes, and then John asked me, Hey,
I can't be in every restaurant at once. Would you
mind stepping in for me? And of course call me
in coach, you know. And so I've hosted a bunch
of episodes they'll air this February, and couldn't be more
thankful or more excited.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
And who knows more about restaurants and surviving with restaurants
and making them work than you?

Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yeah, I mean I think you watch a lot of
these reality shows and you wonder where the judges come
from or who is you know, who has to say
of what they know? But been doing this thirty years,
So I mean, I like to think at this point
I know what I'm doing.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Well. It's funny because when I knew Taffer was coming in,
you know, I did a little research and this story
kept popping up on social you know, where in the
world is John Taffer and is he okay? And why
isn't he on the show? And oh, this is the
third episode without John Taffer, and I asked him and
he said pretty much what you just said, that it
was a lot of episodes, and you know, he had

(22:14):
other stuff going on. So at one point he said,
I'll do so many and then I'll produce so many
and then can showcase a lot of other chefs like yourself.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
Yeah, so, I mean, you know, forty episodes is insane
for a TV season, where most TV seasons are around fifteen
you know, so forty episodes, forty weeks. It takes one
week to air an episode, so forty weeks traveling around
the country. It's a lot to not be home, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well, see, yeah, I mean I do obviously, I do
Dining Playbook, and we do Meet Boston, and we do
probably forty episodes a year, but they don't take a
week to shoot, right. I didn't get that bar because
when you think about it, the construction, the designing, no,
it's it's all everything.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
We actually flip the restaurant in thirty six hours, but
you know, there's the stress test. We fill the place
and see where all the holes are with the crew there,
and it's just it's an insane about sixty people that
work on the show, so it's wow, pretty incredible.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
So I got to ask you what I asked John Taffer, Uh,
do you remember one or two absolute stand out places
that you worked in the show that just you thought
when you saw it, there's no way we can make
this one.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yes, there's there's unfortunately more than a few. You know,
I think one thing background the story, It's like, you know,
there's group a where these people, you know, falling hard
times and really have a lot of problems getting out
of their own way, and then you have people who
are just kind of not so smart. This guy we
were in Denver, Colorado, and he married a stripper.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
And hold on that one second. Ah, did they get
us in Denver? Yes, they got.

Speaker 4 (23:41):
And his name was Billy No. So this guy married
a stripper and the stripper was kind of sleeping with
the kitchen crew and this this bar was just going downhill,
so just needed a stern wake up call to get
him back on.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Trap really happened. It's pretty crazy.

Speaker 4 (23:54):
I mean, I was a fan of the show before
I was on it, and I would watch these shows,
where are these people? This can't be real. The show
is the most real thing. I can't even tell you
how accurate the show is.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
It's real.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
There's no overproduction. We don't coax them into anything. It's
what you see is what you get.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Well, it's funny because when I think back, I don't
watch a lot of reality TV, but I remember one
of the original shows. I forget what they called it.
What was the guy that would yell move that bus?

Speaker 4 (24:20):
Oh, it was a home improvement show.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Home improvement show of some sort. And then the final
thing is move that buston. You'd see the totally redone
house and I had so many questions like, Okay, did
this really happen? But we really do it.

Speaker 4 (24:34):
So basically we do stress tests, we find out what
the problems are. We basically release it to the art
crew at nine pm. And that's on a Wednesday, and
then Saturday is relaunch. I mean it's really thirty six hours.
They put up big lights, they have people working all
night long. Different local companies come in and change the
sign and it's pretty intense of a show.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Obviously, you've got your own restaurants and we'll talk about
them in a couple of minutes. You're going to be
hanging out here for a while. But Working Bar Rescue
has it helped you in some strange way with your
own restaurants, where you get an idea from the.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
It's funny because that's a great question. Actually, not a
lot of people ask me that. But I've learned more
what not to do than I have what to do,
because the general rule of thumb with the show is
it's most people that think it's really fun to run
a bar. They think, hey, i've been a guest here,
I've been coming here for years. Let's open a bar.
How hard can it be. It's pretty intense, you know,
it's a lot of work, and so I've learned a
lot what not to do, and it really keeps me
from becoming complacent because I see what could be if

(25:30):
I put my guard down, and I don't want to
ever be in that position.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
So you have a bunch of bar rescue episodes coming up, yes,
you ast.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
Yeah, we just wrapped the season, so we're gonna re
air in February, so right after the Super Bowl will
start airing, and then you'll get to see me front
and center.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Now, compare the job of being a chef on the
show versus being the host.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
I mean, on a personal level, it's way more fun
to go in there and kick in the door and
yell at everybody, and you take a lot of ownership.
I mean, I really do want to help these people.
I mean, John's been doing this, two hundred and seventy
something episodes he's done. We really sincerely helped these people.
We do a ton of off camera training, and we
hope to leave them in a better place than we
found them.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Do you ever reach back out to them, like several
months down the road or at least check on the.

Speaker 4 (26:12):
You know, in the I did. I would give them
my business card, Hey, email me, you know, let's talk,
and now I walk out the back door and never
to be seen again.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
So you never go on the websites I see occasionally,
I mean you're still Network says we're about an eighty
to eighty five percent success rate with the show, So
pretty exciting to see it happen.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
But yeah, occasionally, if an episode really stands out, I
want to see we did so much for these people.
Because every renovation is different. I mean I just did
one where we fully renovated the entire place.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Did you host any episodes that involved to a place
here in this area?

Speaker 4 (26:44):
No, we haven't really filmed in New England.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
You know.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
So it's the ones I just filmed. Were in Milwaukee
and Missouri. Those are the last two.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
See, I'd feel like I had to go on the websites.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
See if the hooker's still around?

Speaker 4 (26:55):
Yeah, yeah, you never know. Are they married? Where are
they now?

Speaker 2 (26:59):
She totally in charge?

Speaker 4 (27:00):
Is even involved in yes or no?

Speaker 2 (27:04):
We got Jason Santos here. He's one of the most
gifted chefs on the planet. He's got a bunch of restaurants.
You just opened another one, did, Butterbird in Watertown. All right,
we'll take a break. We're gonna hang out with Jason
and find out what's going down at all of his restaurants.
It's Food for Thought. I'm Billy, and we'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
You're listening to Food for Thought, brought to you by
the Box Center and Saleing Waterfront Hotel in Sweets.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
Hey, guys, welcome back to Food for Thought. I'm having
a ball this week, and I hope you are too listening.
But I've got Jason Santos in and let's take inventory. Jason,
First of all, when you started, what was your very
first restaurant in Boston?

Speaker 4 (27:42):
My very first restaurant, I owned a restaurant called Blue Ink.
It was in the Financial District in Boston. That was
going on probably about fifteen years ago. I was really young.
I didn't know what I was doing. It only lasted
a couple of years, but boy did I learn whatnot
What was the format, what was the It was a
very high end, you know. I was trying to do
really really high end food, white tablecloth sort of thing.

(28:03):
It was a small restaurant, thirty five seats. And I
was told by people that I trust, do not open
a restaurant that's small. You'll never make money. And I said, no, no, no,
I got this, and little you know, two years later
we weren't making enough for me to expand. Ironically, when
I worked there and cooked every night, we were fine.
But if I wanted to open another restaurant, I had
to pay a chef. Then we started to lose money.
So what was your next step? What was your next plan?

(28:24):
Next step was Abbey Lane, which we've now flipped into Nashbar,
but same place, same everything that's been.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Ash Bar is a very cool place I got in.

Speaker 4 (28:32):
Yeah, I mean Nash Bar three hundred and thirty five
seat live music venue, Southern inspired food, really fun, line dancing,
live bands in the weekend, really fun and hip. That's
going on eleven years would be eleven years and.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Right across the.

Speaker 4 (28:45):
Two fifty three tru Month Street, right in the.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Theater district of the theater district. So if you're going
in for any show, any concert, trust me, you want
to go to nash Bar both before and super super
fun place. And I remember the very first time I
walked in the nash Bar. I forget what show or
concert I was going to, but the minute I walked in,
I said, oh, this got Jason's.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
It's got him all over dinner in a show.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
You're always like, you're just so creative, And where did
that come from? I don't really know.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
I mean, I've just always wanted to push the boundaries.
I mean, I have blue hair. I try to stand out.
I just everything I do want to reaction. Born with
blue hair, not that I know, but I've have had
blue hair for twenty five years at this point. That
long a really long time.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
It looks as good today as I ever did freshly did.

Speaker 4 (29:29):
Ninety nine point nine percent of the people in my
life don't even know me without blue hair.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
But do you still do your own I do.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
I've always done my own real I've been down to
a science now in and out the bathroom, nobody gets hurt.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
You don't have your own hair. Person that comes to.

Speaker 4 (29:41):
I had no sponsors, no nothing, that's just you in
a saint, that's it, in a mirror and a mama.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Now that is fabulous. Okay.

Speaker 4 (29:48):
So next step in your career came where after everyone?
So then I opened Buttermilk and Bourbon in Boston. That's
been opened it'll be eight years in February. And then
right after that opened Citrus and Salt in and then
Buttermilk and Bourbon Watertown, and then Citrus and Salt and
four point and then Butterbird newly opened about three months.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
I got to talk about your first Citrus and Salt.
That's over Onley, right in back Bay, next to the
old police station. Yes, yes, first time I went in
there again, it hit me, oh, this is Jason Santos place,
because it's always so different and unique and popular instantly
overnight lines.

Speaker 4 (30:26):
I mean, the one thing I've learned is I don't
really cook for myself anymore. I cook for the guests.
You know, a lot of chefs still do everything for them.
It's it's not about me. So never did I wake
up say hey, I'm going to open a pink restaurant,
you know, but I give them what they want. It's
super busy, it's all women. It's very feminine, really fun, picturesque,
very instagrammable, and the food's killer. So it's a good dynamic.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Okay. Aj the producer was just listening and she's like,
did he really open a pink restaurant? You're citrus and
Salt in the Fort Points district of Boston. Beautiful rest
thank you. But when I walked in, boy are you
hitting the face with pink?

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (31:02):
But beautifully done well, because you know one Berkeley Street
was great, and I realized, hey, if we're gonna do
another one, what can we do better? And we give
them what they want, you know, it'd be all twenty
five women with their cameras out. They don't even eat,
they just take pictures, you know, So we just give
them what they want. There's trees going in the restaurant,
neon everywhere, patron room. I mean, we just it's like
two point zero.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
How would you explain the difference between the buttermilk and
bourbon a menu versus citrus and salt.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
So ironically, the business model is very similar. Nineteen menu items,
small plates. We do everything the same. We just picked
it up, put it down and made it sort of Mexican.
So it's a buttermilk and bourbon to me is fried
chicken bourbon like man kind of dark New orleansy and
citrusen salt is light, feminine Mexican light plates. You know,
cool cocktails, but typically served slightly different than anyone else

(31:54):
would like, Yeah, you came up with the crunchy the
street coin and the flame and hot street coin.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
But what the corn sheet?

Speaker 4 (32:00):
Yeah, the flaming hot Cheetos Cheetos.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, he grinds the cheetos and puts it all over
the street corn.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
But what's ironic, it's a very traditional flavor. You go
to Mexico, Wahaca, Mexico City, we eat street corn rolled
in mayonnaise and something spicy. So if you close your eyes,
it's exactly authentically flavored. It's just very innovative in the
sense of the technique how we do it.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
What other things within your restaurants like scream Jason Santos,
the things that you say, I can't believe I had
this idea, and everybody.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
Well, I mean, look when I opened Buttermilk and Bourbon,
I said, look, if we're gonna open a Southern restaurant
and you have this extra white guy from Melrose, what
are we gonna do? How are we gonna make this
pretty white? And I'm very white, very white, and so
I wanted to make a Southern biscuit, so you know
I had to.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
I can't.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
It has to be amazing. So I made a biscuit
every single day for almost a year until what I
got I thought was the best biscuit. And as any
chef will say, they would hope that you have the
best food ever, I'm realistic. You've had this better you
might have had, But honestly, I've never I've yet to
have a better biscus. Get them Buttermilk and Bourbon.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Now, what's the deal with butter Bird, which just opened
in Water.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
So butter Bird is sort of an homage to butter Milk.
So butter Bird heavy on the chicken. We sell tongs.
We sell fifteen hundred bounds of chicken a week at
Buttermilk and Bourbon. So we did a little outpost of
fried chicken sandwiches breakfast burritos, cool breakfast sandwiches, begnets. You know,
it's like a little kind of New Orleans e place
sitting Now we have a great patio. You get coffee
and begnetes, a breakfast sandwich, or come back for lunch

(33:25):
and get like a really fun and funkytion sandwich.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
That area in Watertown has exploded. It's kind of like
assembly roll up there.

Speaker 4 (33:31):
See exactly that it was a ghost getting better and
better and better. Now they're building this eight hundred person
biotech right in the parking lot of home depots.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Which doesn't hurt, does not hurt.

Speaker 4 (33:41):
So it's been great. The landlords are great. I enjoy
being there, and it's nice to get out of Boston.
I think, you know, Boston has seen enough of Jason.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Santas for a bit. What are the hours of butter Bird?

Speaker 4 (33:50):
Butter Bird is open from nine to eight during the
week and nine to nine on the weekends.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Now, I got to ask you a couple of questions
that have kind of put you on the spot.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
Sure, okay, do you have.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
A favorite restaurant in the city that's not yours?

Speaker 4 (34:04):
I like the restaurants that make a lot of money,
So I mean, they all do very well. That's why
I kind of keep opening them. I you know, Citrusen
Salt was Mexican food. I didn't wake up one day
and say, oh my god, I love Mexicans so much,
let's open a restaurant. I thought there was a lack
of it in Boston, so that's why I did it.
So it was more of a business move. But my
heart's with Buttermilk and Bourbon. I mean, I opened it
in the very beginning. It's my brand, it's what I've

(34:26):
become known for. It's really spiked my career, so I'm
very thankful for that. But you know, it's like kids.
You sort of love them all sometimes you hate them.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
So now I'm gonna sound like a network moderator right now,
a debate moderator.

Speaker 4 (34:37):
I didn't answer the question. You didn't answer the questions
exactly right.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
I asked you about a favorite restaurant that's not yours.

Speaker 4 (34:44):
Well, Billy funny you say that because.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Oh, we got a fact check this.

Speaker 4 (34:48):
Buttermilk and Bourbon one sixty commav come and spend your money.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Is there a chef in the Boston area that you
highly respect? That just blows your mind.

Speaker 4 (34:59):
Yes, you know Ken Oranger, who is one of my
favorite chefs, one of my good friends. I mean, he
just humbles me as a chef. I eat his food,
I hang out with him, and I realize I'm not
as good as I think I am because he is
like a Jedi.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
How about if you're traveling, is there you know because
people travel a lot, they'd like to get tips from
people who know. Let's say, in New York City, do
you get there much?

Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (35:21):
I mean I travel. I try to travel a ton.
I mean, eating good food in good cities is really
what inspires me. I mean York in New York, Masa
is really amazing Asian food. I love. I used to
love WD fifty back in the day while he defray
per Se with Thomas Keller's phenomenal or ample On, which
is a beautiful taco place by Alex Dupak. I mean,
I just I love food, so I can find good

(35:43):
in any restaurant. How about Nashville, Nashville, I mean, honestly,
the little street carts out in the main square with
fried chicken and stuff. That's the best Vegas is. I
was just in Vegas this weekend.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
I ate it.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Lettelier to Joel Robashan amazing ten cores men you, I mean, you.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Couldn't even say that, so I couldn't find the restaurant.

Speaker 4 (36:00):
It's delicious. Let'll tell you a and MGM grand ten
course tasting menu, A five wag you white truffles.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
It was pretty amazing.

Speaker 4 (36:08):
Angeles, Los Angeles. I like Beastia is really good. I
love I love the food trucks in La that street
tacos and stuff. I mean, I love little ethnic places
more than I like these flashy restaurants.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Have you ever done the food truck thing? I haven't.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
I'm not there yet. I don't know if I will
get there at some point. I like to do a
lot of things. But I also know that I, you know,
what I've done so far has been very successful, and
I try to stay in my lane.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
What should daily schedule like? I mean, I'm up pretty early.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
I'm up at like six am, and I generally go
right to the restaurants or do some pr in the morning,
and then I'll go and work all day whatever restaurant
needs me the most. And then potentially, like tonight, I'm
cooking on the line in Boston at buttermilk and bourbon,
so it's really different every day. I still cook, Yeah,
I still cook. I gotta be better than my cooks
otherwise I get rusty.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Are you a nice boss? I think so.

Speaker 4 (36:58):
I'm a lot nicer now than I use to be.
You know, the food we're doing is a little bit
sort of more casual than what I used to do,
so it requires not a strict kitchen. So I like
to have fun.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
We're talking with Jason Santos and we'll continue the conversation
when we come back. We only have a few minutes left,
but we're going to recap all of your places, at
least when they're open, when they're closed. Who does happy hour,
who doesn't? Who does brunch? Who doesn't? All that? Jason Santos, well,
you know he's one of the best chefs in Boston,
but he's also a big national TV host now huge

(37:28):
with a bar rescue, and we'll go over that too
when we can see our buddy Jason Santos on Bar Rescue.
It's Food for Thought. I'm Billy Costa. We will take
a break and we'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
You're listening to Food for Thought, brought to you by
The Box Center and Salem Waterfront Hotel in Sweets.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Hey, guys, welcome back to Food for Thought. I got
to tell you this has been an awesome episode. AJ
We have to rerun this a couple of times.

Speaker 4 (37:53):
Because constantly so many.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
We have John Taffer from Bar Rescue, we have Jason
Santos Bar Rescue, and multiple restaurants in the city of Boston.
Okay Santos, let's go Buttermilk and Bourbon.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
Yes, two locations, one sixty Comab in Back Bay and
one hundred Arsenal Yards Boulevard in Arsenal Yards in Water
Time Lunch and dinner, Lunch and dinner and brunch.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Ah. Yes, and don't you do you do a famous
drink at Buttermilk and Bourbon if I recall another one
of your crew.

Speaker 4 (38:21):
I mean we change our drink menu all the time.
Probably the most popular right now is a hurricane, which
sounds pretty simple, but we make it with liquid nitrogen
and lexoro cherries and passion fruit juice, so it's kind
of it all smokes and stuff, and everybody wants one
of that.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Okay, Citrus and Salt is the original one in Boston,
still there.

Speaker 4 (38:38):
No, So that's exactly why I had to move to
four point. Our least was a fire. We had a
tiny fire years ago. But the building itself is renovating
into healthcare. It's going to become a mine clinic. So
sadly our our lease would not be renegotiated, so we
had to move in. So, you know, the restaurant is
so successful, I couldn't just put it to beds to
four point.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Channel was Yeah, it's it.

Speaker 4 (38:59):
I mean, it's I was a little nervous, I'll be honest,
but it's it's been really firing and all cylindery.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
You cannot walk into Citrus and Salt the fourth Point
without walking in the door in your first thought immediately
is wow. Yeah, Like right away, it's like, oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:14):
A big pink Neon octopus in the foyer when you
first walk in and hit you.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Right in the face.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
That idea come from.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
I mean, Neon is like very hip, and I think
it's kind of cool. And then the octopus has sort
of become this weird kind of branding thing that we've done.
We've always served octopus on the menu, so I said,
let's paint an octopus in the front hall and make
it pink. I mean everybody knows that.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
When you decided, hey, you know, let's do another project
and then comes Butterbird. Yes, how did that conversation happen?

Speaker 4 (39:41):
I mean, the landlords at Arsenal Yards are really great.
They were willing to really help us out with the
build of it. And it's just something I've always wanted
to do. I've always wanted to do a little breakfast
sandwich place, cool breakfast burritos and fun sandwiches. And it's small,
eleven hundred square feet maybe twice the size of this room,
and it's just take out your order and get your food.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
And you're on your wad. Does that lunch and dinner.

Speaker 4 (40:02):
Lunch and dinner, brunch on the weekend, no brunch, no
brunch because we do breakfast basically every day. So oh
you do we do breakfast sandwich.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
It's your biggest breakfast.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
My favorite one right now, ironically is it's got griddled
spam on it. I just had spam for the first
time a year ago, and I like, it's like salty,
fatty delicious.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Now.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
I grew up on sa I never had it before.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Sandy. Young people, and what are you talking about spam?
I mean, you know we were very poor. Yeah, so spam.

Speaker 4 (40:28):
Christy on a griddle, salty. The best spam still exists,
still exists. I'm bringing it as a comeback.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
It's not like I go looking for it in the market.

Speaker 4 (40:39):
But when you go looking for it, you can't.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Give me a great spam recipe.

Speaker 4 (40:44):
I mean, honestly, my wife, who is the one that
introduced me. She's Vietnamese and she made this amazing spam
fried rice with like soy and like peas and vegetables
in the rice. And that's when I had it. I
was like, this is delicious.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Years ago bad, it's good. I was in the kitchen
with Todd English, Hey, Todd, poor god, and I said,
we were alive on the air, and I said, okay,
give me a I need a recipe for spam. Give
it to me. He came up with within ten minutes,
he had a beautiful spam for Tata.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
And I'm telling you, folks, go out and get some
spam for goodness sake. Jason. Always great to see. Thank
you so much, Thank you, good luck, and we look
forward to seeing you one bar Rescue.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
When February we start the new season.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
All right, we have to go. Thank you so much
for tuning in. Food for Thought. Jenny's got the week off,
She'll be back next week. How do I know that,
because next week I'll be in Africa and I'm not
even kidding the Lions. Thank you so much for tuning in, everybody,
And by the way, don't forget check out Dining Playbook
Onnessin Saturday mornings at nine, Sunday nights at nine, followed

(41:43):
by Meat Boston Saturday mornings at nine thirty Sunday nights
at nine thirty. We'll see you everybody by now.
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