Chef Douglass Williams of Mida & Apizza

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
You are listening to Food for Thoughtwith Billy and Jenny, brought to you
by the Box Center. For morethan fifteen years, this dining duo has
been eating their way through New England, mixing it up with top chefs,
jumping behind the line of the hottestrestaurants and giving you the inside scoop on
where to wine, dine and spendyour time. So get ready, it's
Food for Thought giving you something tochew on. Hey, everybody, welcome

(00:23):
into Food for Thought, brought toyou by the Box Center. I am
Jenny, and I am very excitedfor the show. This week, we
are joined by certainly one of themost celebrated chefs in our area, someone
who has also been celebrated on anational scale, and someone who is so
devoted to not only the industry thathe supports, but so many different philanthropies

(00:46):
throughout our area and beyond. Heis so talented. I've had the pleasure
of knowing him for some time.Our chef right now that's joining us as
chef, Douglas Williams currently has MITAin Boston, Newton and just open Denise,
Boston and a Pizza in Boston.Chef, how are you I'm good.
Thank you so much for having me. This is so much fun.

(01:08):
Oh, it's so nice to bewith you. We as I said,
we've had the pleasure of seeing eachother a variety of different places over the
years and promoting your incredible restaurants,but we haven't really spent an hour sort
of what's the background, getting toknow exactly who you are and sort of
how you came to be one ofthe most celebrated guys in our area.
So so, chef, we liketo start by kind of talking about what

(01:32):
was the genesis story, Like howdid this become your path? And I
think, interestingly enough, this wasnot the longtime dream plan of yours,
which I always find very interesting,and even though it happened later and turned
very successful, it wasn't sort ofthe well worn path that you planned for.
So so kind of walk us througha little bit about your history and

(01:53):
how you got here. Sure,so, just to dive right into it.
I you know, I was inNew Jersey, I'm born to raise
in Atlantic City, and I youknow, saw early on, about fifteen
years old, there was a culminationof a few things happening in parallel.
There was the kind of creation ofthe food network. Around the two two

(02:14):
thousand year that you know, Iwas also getting the food. I had
just started a job at Wendy's,which I adored. I loved. I
loved the process out of the systems. I loved the organization. I love
that nothing was frozen. I lovedit was all fresh. There was a
whole bunch of things and just beinginto food and understanding and opening my mind
to the world. We had vordersbookstore at that time. I don't know

(02:34):
if they still exist, but therewas a certain amount of access that you
had to some real fundamental knowledge thatI started to take advantage of. And
it just happened to be in thefood realm. And in that same time,
I got sick with something called cronedisease, and it's a autoimmune disease
that comes after your your gut usuallyand your and your intestines. And I

(02:55):
had to have surgery, you know, six inches of my of my ten
to remove put back in kind ofgiven a new start at life even but
now I can't eat anything that Iwas used to, which is no sugars,
no starches, no seeds, nono nothing. Basically my whole diet
was eggs, honey and some almondflour, and that was about it.
So I had to build my wholeentire palette, my whole entire understanding of

(03:17):
food and what I can ingest andnourish myself with through and and ultimately and
nourish other people and their experiences throughthese three kind of and water. I
could do as well sometimes and everythingseemed to set it off. And then
I sort of found out in timethat it wasn't actually a food disease,

(03:38):
that was actually a somewhat aligned withstress and the internalization of stress and the
mismanagement of one stress mechanism. Soonce all these things were happening at the
same time, and Alton Brown isstill pointing at the screen, and I'm
seeing all these things on TV andall these personalities, and I said,

(03:58):
I want to have this kind ofcontentious career and professionalism in this field in
the hospitality, And honestly came fromthat, and I made the decision to
move to Boston. And that wastwo thousand and six. Gentlemen called Michael
Schlau. He had great restaurants radiusas everybody knows about the Burger and he

(04:18):
was at the time he was thetwenty best in the country as far as
his restaurant, So I thought thatwould be a great place to go.
I guess, stay close to home, but also be just far enough away
to have kind of my own independence. And now I saw him as an
entrepreneurial leader and some of his partnersas well, So I use that as

(04:38):
motivation and wanted to really travel theworld and improve on myself and my own
professional acumen. Wow, it isso amazing. And this idea of healing
ourselves through food is it's certainly nota new phenomenon, but it's one that
people are only really starting to payattention to in a way that I think
we always did historically. See it'ssuch a great genisist story because once something

(05:02):
that you were completely stripped of,this love like a love of food,
then became sort of the fuel foryou to tell your story. And and
Boston, obviously and Michael Schlow,that start, you know, was such
a was such a strong one.And so today I want to kind of
come full circle because today you arein remission, am I correct? And

(05:23):
and you've spent so much of journeycoming you know, as as one of
the most well known chefs sort ofeducating people not only about the food that
they're eating, but how you caneat like a cope, like you know,
different amounts of food as long asyou're using kind of the right both
ingredients and the right quality. Isthat right? Yeah? And just and

(05:46):
just I think that you know,my mother was Syrian Lebanese, and my
father was a black gentleman, andI and and he was the chef and
she was the cocktail reitress. Soyou know, there there was an inherent
kind of uh, baseline food appreciation, I guess you can say, really
not food knowledge, but more justunderstanding and awareness of what food does.
Even before I, you know,became ill. You know, that was

(06:10):
always a part of my understanding ofhow heat and seasoning affect food. And
also you know, my great grandmother, my grandmother were alive up until just
two years ago, so they Ihad this really concentrated view of food and
and and not just food but likereally hospitality and cuisine and how it affects

(06:31):
someone's mood, how it affects someone'sholiday, how it affects someone's daily life,
how much they need of it.Just just a really a big awareness
that I that you know, culinaryschool can't necessarily give you, and even
working in restaurants alone can't give youthat. I just feel so I always
I was aware that I was thatit was happening, and I was appreciating

(06:55):
of it, and I honestly usedthat. I love that, and I
love about your great grandma and yourgrandma. I'm sorry for their loss.
That's so nights that they were ableto see so much of your success.
We're going to take a break,and when we come back, I want
to kind of stay with that becauseoftentimes, yes, there is there was
a huge genesis story for you toreally propel yourself into this space, but

(07:15):
it's a part of everyone's life.I mean, the memories that we make,
the experiences that we have, theflavors we connect to with them really
speak to you know, ultimately,what we be can't come in so many
ways. So we're going to takea break. We'll be back with Douglas
Williams with Food for Thought in justa minute. You're listening to Food for
Thought, brought to you by theBox Center and Salem Waterfront Hotel in Sweet

(07:36):
Chef Douglas Williams, Anita and apizza are here with us on the show
this week. So, Chef,we heard a little bit before about some
of your cultural and history of backgroundand having your great grandma and your grandma
around for so much of your life. How special that is. So talk
about some of the flavors that youexperienced growing up, some of the different

(08:00):
and you know what what food wascentered and looks like for you as you
were a kid and and coming tobe an adult. Yeah, so there
was there was a huge It wasa huge contrast, much much like a
dish, much like one of thosedishes that really strike you, you know,
that kind of how it was formy childhood. My mother was Syrian
Lebanese. Like I mentioned, mydad was a black gentleman, and my

(08:22):
great grandmother and grandmother on his sidewere extremely vibrant and lived very long lives.
So that allowed a large part ofmy life to be around them and
taste their flavors on from a froma kind of Virginia, you know,
Southern America side of you, andthen also having my father who was a
professionally trained chef, and then mymother who was not a trained chef,

(08:46):
but was in just the food wasin her blood, I guess you can
say. And hospitality is in herblood as well as my my dad's side.
And you know that gave me thisreally interesting uh A palette and appreciation
and understanding for what really pleases peopleand and and also how to anticipate and

(09:11):
how to see and how to adjustand how to you know, divert a
flavor or divert textures or divert howyou explain it to someone. I mean,
you're always trying to convince. There'salways there's always grand children in the
house at grandma's house, and therewas always an uncle and a and a
and a and a cousin from Floridaor somewhere else, and and you always
and no one liked the same thing. But everyone liked Grandma's food, but

(09:35):
there was always something a little off. And the same thing with my mother
when she had people over. Itwas I saw how to not just cook,
because that's one part of it.Adding food, adding heat to food
is one part, but there's reallythe whole hospitality component. And being able
to read the room and re readpeople's uh body posture, facial expressions,

(09:56):
how they breathe, if they startlooking around, if you know, there's
there's a whole uh science to itthat I think that it was just natural
within most sides of my families,and I think having that piece, thank
goodness, I have that as well, because you definitely need that as uh
it's essential component to having restaurants andto being uh you know, just having

(10:18):
that touch in the restaurant and hostalityfield. So I hope not in that
And then what I yeah, sorry, yeah, no, go ahead,
I mean I was gonna say,we'll talk more about sort of like the
specific focuses that you have through yourrestaurant group. But I read somewhere at
some point that you had a dreamto be a history teacher, which I

(10:39):
think is really interesting because so muchof what you're talking about is really storytelling,
right, Your storytelling through food,your storytelling through the interactions you have
with people, through the love youput into your food. You're also storytelling
from the history from your great grandparentsand your grandparents, from your parents,
and so that plays a big rolein and you're creating a menu or when

(11:01):
you're you know, like just asyou're experiencing having a disa experience. Yeah,
even I was gonna say, eveneven absolutely even even creating the concept
of what I want to do nextand what we want to, you know,
make sure we provide for the city. As far as the concept point
of view, I think just basicallymaking the need of the base of generosity.

(11:22):
I think that was a big piece. But just getting back to you
know why, you know, havingall those things, uh, the food
wise that I still wasn't while Iwas, while I was eating and enjoying
my family and enjoying those things,those I still didn't know I wanted to
be a chef. That was onlyup until about fifty I had a whole
beginning of my life that was reallyI knew I wanted to a have kids.

(11:45):
By the age as well, Iknew I was like, I want
two kids, and that's what I'mlooking for. I want to be a
dad. But more so because ofmy fifth grade teacher, Miss Lakens.
You know several teachers that I hadthat were just incredible and gave us all
themselves. They inspired me to firstwant to be a teacher. I wanted
to teach history in English to thirdthe fifth graders. That was that was

(12:07):
my jam. I want I knewI want to do that. I wanted
to go to TCU, I wantedto get my teachers the creator, and
I wanted to do that and itmight be a history major, and I
think that that. But once Iwas running track when I was fifteen,
and I got sick during that time, and I missed all the attempts to
make AP classes and all of thesethings, and that's why that kind of

(12:28):
went off. The resident. Isaid, well, what can I do
now? I don't have im notI didn't take the SATs. I wasn't
set up for it. I justdidn't have the alignment. And timing was
really really poor because by the timeI was a year graduated before everyone else
because of my age, because ofthe time I was born in the year,
so I was graduating when I wasseventeen, and by the time I

(12:48):
was fifteen sixteen, that's when Igot six so it was all wrapping up,
and I by senior year, they'realready it's already chosen. So I'm
the only place that will accept you. The asious school and a culinary school.
Uh, they'll except everybody. SoI said, I guess, I
guess the color the color piece,like I said, at the time,
had it seemed like it had morecultural band with i'man Anthony Bourdain put out

(13:13):
probably his first book. At thattime, Ish David Chang had just came
onto it, like it was justvery very early, but it was all
happening, and it was and itwas just bubbling from the base. And
I said, you know what,food might be the thing. And as
I got more confident with my foodand my own comfort with food, because
again I'm sick at this time,right, I'm I'm I can't eat.

(13:33):
I lost seventy five pounds. Ilooked like a troll dog because I had
braids and I was. I lostall my weight. So I was a
very strange looking person. And thathurts your confidence and socially even to go
out and try to order a subas a as a regular kid or as
a teenager, as a big sixfoot, you know, two hundred pound
teenager. It's and you have tobe the one like, oh, can

(13:54):
I have that meat on two lettuces? And like that doesn't like you can't
your automatical, it's it does alot to your subconscious and to your you
know, who you are as aburgeoning man. So that's all this is
happening at the same time. AndI said, you know what, culinary
school and then I'm getting out ofhere. And Michael Schlau happened to be

(14:18):
on alumni from my school. Bringus to where? And then where did
your travels bring you? Because Iknow there was some international travels that I'm
curious about how those sort of helpedshape what you ultimately decided to do for
sort of a cuisine focus. Oh, it was like a bomb went off.
We had a culinary school trip thatwas not we but the school had

(14:39):
a colinory trip that they were planning, and I didn't think I was going
to get to go. It wasa pumpkin yellow piece of paper and I
stuffed it in the bottom of abook bag because it was like twenty two
hundred dollars and I knew my momdidn't have that to send me and I
didn't have that, so I likestuffed away. She cleaned my book back
out because it was all full,like some food and flour and like butter,

(15:00):
all the weird stuff, and she'sand I said, oh, it's
this trip that go to Vienna,Vienna, Austra And I said, I'll
you know, you know, Iknow we don't have She's like, oh,
no, you're going, And Iwas like awesome. So I went,
and honestly, Vienna, Austria wasthe jump point for everything for what
I thought the world could be,and what I thought college might have been

(15:22):
like, and what I thought justwhat I what I couldn't even imagine Europe
would be like it was in boatsI was. I love Mozart, I
love classical music. I mean thatis Mozarts, that is Mozart's town,
and we it just just every everyartist, artistic bone in my body was
was shaken being in Vienna and seeingthat and having that experience, and I

(15:46):
think that I got to step inmy first missioninane kitchen and we had a
stage that day, and the wholekitchen, whole group that I went with
got the stage in the missionan kitchen. But just to see that in college
school at nineteen, it was justI said, Okay, I know what
I want to know. I wantthe world I want I want to use.
That's That's an interesting way to talkabout it, because I think there's

(16:07):
only so much one can read,Like as a person who was interested in
history, there's only so much thatone can read in a book, then
like comparing it to actually experiencing it, like your eyes were open to what
the possibilities were that you can't reallysee if you're just reading about it on
a piece of paper, you can'tAnd I and I honestly I saw early
on that the your professionalism and howyou how you kind of present yourself and

(16:33):
your and your demeanor is actually yourpassport and your ticket into anywhere you want
to be in the world. Itdoesn't matter you're walking to college. You
don't need a degree, you don'tneed these things. You just need to
have a great attitude and a will. It's not the skill of the man,
that's the will of the man.And and as this ablesy said,
and I think that you know,I found that out early on, and
I said, I'm going to usethis as my as my ticket. And

(16:56):
it was never wrong, it wasall always it was always right on.
And I loved that I took thatroute. And it was scary because you
know, I don't have any there'sI don't have. I don't have an
accounting degree to fall back around.I don't have all these things. This
has to this has to work.And that's that's what I ended up taking
forward. Well, I mean,you mean, your passion is clear,

(17:18):
and it's clear that it always hasbeen there and and sometimes it's about taking
a leap of faith and figuring outhow to be in the right place in
the right time, and yet alsomaking sure that you're following something that you
feel passionate about it. It feelslike you've done all of the above.
Okay, So we're going to takeanother break when we come back. I
want to figure out why with Italianor really sort of the core of Italian
where you landed throughout all your travels, from all the different flavors that you

(17:41):
experienced growing up and within culture,this was the place that you landed.
So we're going to take a breakand be back with more Food for Thought
with Chef Doug with Williams than justa minute you're listening to Food for Thoughts
brought to you by It's the BoxCenter and Sail and Waterfront Hotel in Swees.
So if we haven't even gotten tothe place of being able to un
half your amazing restaurants before we do, Italian became the place that I guess

(18:04):
you felt most inspired by or aplace that you found most comfortable. What
like, what was that process andyou know what why was it ended up
being Italian, you know, Ithink it's it comes from a passion side,
but also a business and marketing side. I think that you know,
knowing where you are, knowing weare in in Boston obviously a deep rich

(18:26):
Italian history and comfort level with thatstyle of food restaurant, and and just
and just uh just theme in general. It doesn't just have to be a
North End, but just just acommunity in general. I thought that it
would be a advantageous and and andan intelligent idea to do something that would
that would make people feel comfortable.I didn't I think going in with my

(18:48):
training which is based in French andand some tie you know, I spend
time in Thailand, I think that, you know, doing something radical off
of the beginning can be a risky, risky bet. And while I'm all
about you know, I try tobe a little less risk averse than most,
but still I wanted to be smartabout it and really hedge my bets

(19:12):
correctly. And I thought of doingsomething too risky being if it was a
financial thing or or I was astock market then yes you could take more
risk. But you know, hospitalityand restaurants have the probably low the lowest
market profit margin in the history ofall business, right, it's it's notoriously

(19:33):
stingy and and and thin and fragileand all of the things, and you
carry a lot of costs. SoI thought, let's do something that I
love that I love teaching to alignthat teaching piece. Because there has to
be something I want to do.I can't be something I that I just
you know, I have to beable. I have to be able to
jump out of bed every day andsay, I get to make pasta.
And I could teach people make pastas, I get to have them find join

(19:56):
it. So I think that hallionsseem to be the most natural progression to
do, first to gain comfort,to gain respect, to gain uh just
an overall comfort level with the city. And so I can I can build
that base, and then if Iwant to do something a little bit more,
uh you know, deeper into myinto my skill set and my acumen,

(20:19):
then I can maybe do that ata later time. But this was
the beginning to start the nucleus.I was going to say, we know,
there's so many more chapters for youin this space, but I think
it's so interesting because this what youjust illuminated is that there's so much more
for chefs than just considering what thefood is that they're cooking. They have
to really understand the city that they'rein, the economics of what that looks

(20:41):
like. And and so thank youfor illuminating that, because I think you're
built to that exactly, like you'rejust pigeonholed into one place. All right,
we're going to take a break.We'll be back with more Food for
Thought. You're listening to Food forThought brought to you by It's the Box
Center and Stale and Waterfront Hotel inSweet jeth Thank you for cutting upon that,
because I think it's something it's reallyimportant for folksalok things to understand that

(21:02):
there are so many layers to owninga restaurant, and this idea that like
the margins in a restaurant are ina lot of ways almost non existent is
something that I think a lot ofpeople also don't know because there is so
much that goes into creating that experience, which is how we can connect to
some of the things that you've beentalking about before. The passion. You
have to feel the joy that youwant your team to feel, the joy

(21:25):
that you want the customer to feelwhen they come into your restaurant, and
that's really the ethos that you've createdwithin your restaurant group. And as a
person who has been inside all ofthem, I can tell you is that
there is a felt sense of thatwhen you walk in, no matter who
you're greeted by, no matter whattime of day it is, there is

(21:45):
both a loyalty to you and tothe restaurant group and to the work that
you're doing, and a passion thatcomes out that's just very very clear and
vivid. So I want to talka little bit more about those restaurants.
So first, if folks haven't beento meet there or a piece set,
tell them what they'll expect. Uh, you know, we want people to
come in no matter no matter howyou come in, when it came off

(22:07):
a bad day at work or greatday at work, or day shopping,
or a much needed reprieve from justlife, or you just got off the
plane, or you come from businesswhatever whatever situation you're in, or you
came from a baseball game that hopefullyyou won, or your child one or
your family one. I think thatjust being able to walk as long as
you're hungry and thirsty and and inthe mood for at least the need for

(22:33):
a good conversation or finding a newfriend at the bar, or or coming
in with old colleagues, or anycombination of that, because some people do
both. Some people end up stayingand they came by themselves and they end
up joining a table. It's it'sincredible, but that that sort of warmth
and an ability to create your ownexperience as well as us provided off it

(22:56):
allows us to really create these worldclass experience both on service and food side,
but in a neighborhood setting, right, and that both both in the
setting of place, but also ofactually in a neighborhood that is both transient,
has a a kind of homestead feelto it right around around your around

(23:17):
where we are. It's busy,but it's also city, but it's also
commuters. It's just you can lookout on the and all of our restaurants
are also on a corner as well, and all they all have glass on
most of the sides to create thistrans transparency and and and we really try
to do this and that's just andthat's just the ethos of of of how

(23:37):
it feels and how it looks.And then you dive into the food,
and you know, we try togo a little bit mostly Rome. Then
we go a little southern and wehave some Sicilian muscles with p pesto,
and it's it's a little spicy,it's a little lovely, it's frothy,
it's it's it steams up your glasseslike it does all the things that's supposed
to do that as it would inItaly. It gives the there's a there's

(24:00):
a saying from artists that you know, either musician, a painter, a
culinarian, however you want to whateverlayer of the arts you're in. People
who are not in the arts alwaysask, how do you know a dish
is done? Or how do youknow a painting is done? How do
you know a TV show or movieis completed? It's when it makes you
feel wholly emotional. When it makesyou feel emotional, then you know that

(24:23):
that that that item or that pieceor that presentation is not necessarily done,
but it is. It is,it has hit its mark, and now
it's time to either evolve it orset it and and duplicate it and hopefully
consistency or sorry, consistently And thatis the mark of not just me right
but that is something that I've learnedand I've seen from all my mentors and

(24:47):
all my teachers around the world.It is how to Yes, you can
cook good food, and yes youcan have your you know, eighty five
minsion stars in your resume, butcan you create an experience and can you
read the audience and can you beseveral steps ahead of your diner because that
is also part of the responsibility.Yeah, I love that, and the

(25:11):
comparing of it to all the differentcreative outlets is so true. I mean,
we kind of hear that catchphrase foodis love, and you can think
about that in so many different levelsand in so many different ways. But
ultimately, what you're creating in yourrestaurants and with your team and with every
dish that you make is something that'slike very deeply personal and then becomes very

(25:32):
deeply personal to the person that getsto enjoy it. So you mentioned the
three locations. The first one wasin the South End, the most quaint,
the most inviting. I mean,you really kind of like brought to
life this section of the South End. We have about a minute in this
break, but talk about what peoplewill see when they walk into that restaurant.
And then what's I know that there'sa couple dishes on that menu that

(25:55):
you cannot even remotely consider taking off. Yeah, right, when you walk
and you smell milky, you smelland yoki catchup pepper, you smell parmisano
regiano in the air, you canyou can almost feel the the cracked pepper
kind of emanating from the kitchen.And you definitely definitely smell the smoke short
of lasagna with the rakota, andthat we that we can't take off because

(26:18):
it's just it's just a staple andand it it is so a seal to
your emotion and to what you wantand the texture and how it breaks down
against your fork and how it mixeswith the sauce. I mean, it
is just so inviting naturally, andthen we put you know, our spin
on it and and and our andour love into it, and that makes

(26:38):
it, uh, you know,it takes it to the next level,
and then you end up taking somehome. So that's that's that's always,
that's always the key. I mean, you never you never can order enough
because you definitely want to make surethat you're having seconds the next day.
So so chef that that was thatrestaurant that we're talking about was right there
in the South End. The nextlocation in Newton that we'll talk about in

(27:00):
a minute, and then the thirdlocation, which is just the most light
out property ever in Boston, EastBoston, overlooking the gorgeous skyline. We'll
come back and paint a little bitmore of this picture, and I know
that there are some specific dishes onthat menu that you can only get in
East Boston. We'll take a breakand be back with Chef dog Douglass Williams
in just a minute. You're listeningto Food for Thought brought to you buy

(27:23):
the Box Center and Salem Waterfront Hotelin sweets. Welcome back to Food for
Thought brought to you by the BoxCenter. Getting inside the creative mind of
Chef Douglass Williams. We've talked abouta couple of the properties. East Boston
is the newest one. It isso gorgeous. I know that you worked
with actually a high school buddy ofmine justin Welch to help bring the vision

(27:47):
to life. And I mean justfrom an aesthetic standpoint, from like obviously
you've got the view of Boston rightthere, and you're right there on the
water, but you know, andthen of course this would be spectacular.
And so how has that experience It'sit's only been open for a few months.
Oh my god, I mean it'sjust really the first time I went
to go see this pace, Ididn't know there was this amount of space

(28:08):
left in East Boston. I didn'tknow that this existed. And my partner
brought me over and said, oh, I want to take place in East
Boston. I was like, Idon't want to be like stuck in between
buildings, and he said, no, no, no. I came there
and I said, oh, EastAustin, I said, I didn't know
that this view existed. It's it'salmost like being in Brooklyn looking at Manhattan.
It's the only way you can seethe whole city, and it's just

(28:30):
scale and it's beauty and it's justaw and but you're still technically in Boston.
It's onreal thing. And also thebiggest piece of it, well,
one of the biggest pieces of itis we have now access to north Shore
and South Shore that people want tocome don't have to necessarily drive into the
city to come experience media. Theycan come straight from their homes or their
neighborhoods and do that. So Ithink the access piece is great. And

(28:52):
also now we get to experience theferry and turn that into a party.
And I think that just all theseother ways to reach over to which is
really insanely deep cultural part of acity that is a little cut off by
access, but really it's by ourperception of it. And hopefully I get
to add to that, you know, add to that that that body of

(29:15):
people that that really to say,hey, it's not that far. It's
actually only seven minutes away if youjust come under the bridge and boom,
you're there, and and and we'retrying to do that. And when they
arrive again, you find this similaretho. You find this extreme feeling of
openness and welcomeness and airiness. Butalso you get to look back at the
city you just drove from, allthe way from Dorchester to Charlestown and even

(29:41):
a little bit now that it's almostbeyond a one eighty of you. And
and also the sunset, which I'msure you can talk about that in more
in more meh, it's literally justmagic there. Oh my god, you're
outdoor seating too. I mean,it's just it is such a special place.
You guys did such a great job. One of the things I want
to talk about is your inspiration.I mean, it obviously comes across throughout

(30:03):
this interview that you are so passionateabout what you do. But one of
the things that I love, becauseyou're in my phone, your numbers in
my phone, is I get tocall you when I'm actually the city,
because you also find a lot ofpassion from going outside of your city that
you you know that you now youand your family now call home, and
being able to taste flavors from allover you know, all over the country

(30:25):
and all over the world. Talkabout how important it is to be able
to sort of step outside of yourown space to come back with that inspiration.
Oh, it's incredibly inspiring, Imean, and not and not all
also not just from a food pointof view, per say, but yes,
yes, and food food point ofview, but you also could think,
hear how people talk to other peopleand how how how managers get to
talk to stuff, and how howthey how they move and how that's the

(30:48):
speed in which they move in efficiency. You see so much in other restaurants
and other establishments, both in hoteland all sorts of concepts from New York,
which we've bumped into each other afew times randomly, and I just
think that means we have some goodtaste and and we never get a chance
to share a drink, but we'rewe're gonna get there one day. But
I think it's just like that we'reon the right path of whether you're in

(31:11):
New England or you took a quicktrip up to Montreal, which I'd love
to do, and that, ohmy god, that's that all in itself
feels like you're in you're in Europejust from the language alone. I mean,
just just you have to be openand receptive to to what you don't
know, and even if you thinkyou know, it layers something else on

(31:32):
and and it's it's it's like it'sit's really an incredible energizing experience. I
think we all know what it feelslike if we like cities. When it
feels like you're going on a trainto New York, right that once you
come out of that last half anhour of the trip is like, oh,
you're like feeling like you're sitting ona charger, you know, I
feel like you're hypode charged up.You just like are so ready, you

(31:55):
know. I mean that perspective ofrecognizing that there is so much beyond the
purview that you see on a dayto day basis, I think is so
necessary. I mean, it's necessaryfor all of our relationships, it's necessary
for all of the work we do, to sort of take us out of
our norm and remind us like,this is one huge world filled with so
many different people, so many differentflavors if we're talking about what we're talking

(32:17):
about, but so many different perspectives. And I think somehow that really is
the thing that really hones it,like it helps us hone in on what
really matters to us. You talkedabout your kids a little bit in this
interview, and I just gosh,we both have a kid on kids that
are similar age. You have twinsthat I have sonor and so we're kind
of in the sick of it,I suppose, with just what such an

(32:38):
amazing experience. What has it beenlike to bring them into the kitchen and
are they are you watching them sortof enjoy things that you might not have
imagined and tell us a little bitabout how much that means to you,
you know, I try to makeit as similar to and maybe even better
than the way I grew up isjust to have them, just not to

(33:00):
shun them from food and from mistakes. I think, you know, we
all are trying to, especially thisyear, in these past couple of years
after COVID, we've all tried to, you know, talk to ourselves a
little better and maybe talk to ourselveslike you would a four year old,
no matter if you you know,have the ball and the t ball,
or you have some eggs in apan and it starts to burn or something,
You're just like, Okay, goodjob, baby, you know,

(33:21):
like you just you just have todo that the same way you would want
yourself talk to and and you endup finding that, you know, they
just don't know any better. Andthere's a lot of times that we think
we know better and we really don'teither. But I think making mistakes together
with your children, and being vulnerableand not just a leader, but also
being just as vulnerable as they are, and and also as passionate and just

(33:45):
wildly silly, I think creates alot of fun in the kitchen and a
lot of room for growth and learningand just real comfort. And I think
that once it's not just about thefood you cook with your children. I
think sometimes that can get away fromit. But I think it's really just
the time and your demeanor and yourmindset and your mind frame. And I
think that I try to focus onthat because I do have a lot of

(34:07):
plates in the air literally and figurely, and I you know, we all
bring our own kind of you know, work home in our own ways,
no matter how good we are atseparating that or compartmentalizing. So I'm I'm
trying to find that that way forwardwith them. I love that. I
love that so so much, andthey're lucky to be experiencing that with you.

(34:29):
You know, I want you havemore accolades that I'm even going to
lift recognition from everything from food andwine to James Beard and h you know,
so like people are celebrating the workthat you do. Can you talk
about Boston in general and how youfeel like Boston is in terms of I
guess the country from a culinary perspective, are we are we? You know,

(34:52):
people say like Boston's finally arrived,and you know, part of me
wants to say, oh, Boston'sbeen here for whatever, you know,
reason it may not have been recognizedin the same way. But what are
your feelings about that? I thinkit all comes down to, you know,
I think knowing our potential, rightyou know, you have to know
your winner to know how to win. To win, right you have,

(35:15):
you just have to believe it.And I think that you know, whether
it be our sports teams are lifescientists, our research and development are,
our medical fields, our educational systems, our local government are all these things
that we have as world at ourhospitals, as not just world class but
world leading right in all those fields. And I think that that being an

(35:38):
inspiration and being so close to it, I mean Fenway, I'm sitting from
Fenway less than I could throw arock at it right now, and it's
and it's here, and you cantouch it. And there's so many things
that you can touch in Boston thatyou can't. You have to go across
the river, go across of this, or go across of that to get
to and this is all right herewithin a mile of us, which feels

(35:58):
a little suffocating and small, buthonestly having access is great. But I
think, you know, comparing thatto who we want to be and who
we think we are as as identityas a food identity as a as a
culinarian identity. Of course we have, we are. It's just there's a
lot of things that it just takescertain people, certain times in a certain

(36:21):
amount of talent. And our systemhere has in some of my favorite restaurants
that I've ever eaten that even nextto the Oyster by far my favorite restaurant
that I've probably ever been to,maybe top two at least. Ever,
So I just think that things.I think it's about your perspective, it's
about what you want, it's aboutwhat you're looking for, it's about what

(36:42):
you need. And there may notbe a need for having the top restaurants
in the country or world in Boston. That's just because it's so transit that
we don't have people that we havesome people that stay around, but there
are a lot of people that leaveand that's a shame because they we send
them on to do other things inthe rest of the world. And that's
that's what that's our calling car,that's our resume, is sending great people

(37:05):
out of the city. So that'sye the development when it comes. Yeah,
and I think you've certainly you've beenone of those leaders and sort of
like saying, look here, herewe are. Here are the amazing things
that you're doing. But you're right, this is a city that is very
diverse in the things in our offerings, right so, and culinarily is one
of the many things that we areoffering, and you're right, it does

(37:28):
continue to evolve. We're going totake a break because you just said that
you were a stone throw from Fenway, and I think there's something pretty exciting
that people may not know yet,and and we'll be able to see you
there soon. So we'll take aquick break and we'll be back with more
Food for Thought. You're listening toFood for Thought brought to you by the
Box Center and Sale and Waterfront Hoteland Sweet. I knew it was going
to be a good hour because there'snever a shortage of things to talk about

(37:52):
with Douglas Williams. Okay, soI mentioned you were in your friend Way.
I have already mentioned you have aMeta in South End, Amida in
Newton, a very brand new mediain East Boston, and a pizza as
well in Boston. But people maynot know that there is another brand new
Chef Douglas location in the Fenway area. What is it? Tell us about

(38:15):
it. So for for this one, I'm actually going back to my roots
and going back to the basis ofof of how I grew up cooking in
the kitchens in the professional manner,and that is French cuisine. And you
know when I when we first talkedabout doing it, I wanted this to
be something that was not a youknow, as some of my partners would
say, ha ha French. Wewanted to feel French for all and as

(38:38):
they say, French for two,right, this is this is a French
for for all people to enjoy,and we're basically doing a d W French.
This is a brasserie right on thecorner a Brookline in Boylson Street,
kind of in between CB two andSweet Cheeks, right coron Street from Star
Market, and we just thought thiswas a great location as it still needs

(39:01):
a bit of building up on thisside. There's still some development that happen
over here, and we are superexcited to not just be here but also
be now maybe rewoven with with theagain the community. And also we're technically
on a corner and we have glassall around us, so it's kind of
sitting in vain with that and thisis going to serve all the classic brasury
items you know as called go oncrute, steak freaks, move freaks,

(39:27):
French onion soup, all the thingsthat I love that I love pasting,
that I can't forget, and Iget to serve this in my manner classically
and represent something bigger. Gosh,I cannot imagine how exciting this process has
been. But like to think aboutyou being able to sort of like go
back to it in a way thatyou knew you were going to get to,

(39:50):
but to also have the experience,like you said, to bring about
sort of like new sections of thecity. And you know, one of
the things I wanted to say beforeis like, you know what you did
on your corner in the South End, was you You've brought lights to a
corner, you know, and you'vedone the same in your other locations.
And I think that's one of thethings that we have to sort of appreciate
about the hospitality industry is not onlydoes it sort of bring the flavors that

(40:15):
we love, but it brings thevibrancy and the energy to the different neighborhoods.
And so that's so great that you'regoing to be able to do that
yet another corner of our city.So okay, So now right now,
let's go through all the places peoplecan find you. Tell me when you're
open for lunch, run you're openfor dinner. All of those things give
us that before we let you go. Oh, okay, one more super
quick surprise, but that you canfind me in South End seventy eighty to

(40:37):
Tremont corner mass Ev and Tremont.That's Media. The other media is East
Boston, right on the Coopership Wharf. Third one is Newton, right off
of a ninety on a Washington andWalnut dw French right next to Shaw's Market
on the corner of Brookline and Boylston. And then there's one more than a

(41:00):
pizza in North Station. And thenthere's one more thing that I actually have
with Chase Sapphire in the airport atGate B twenty nine, right where Gate
B and C start. That Iam doing my own beautiful lounge of this.
So you cannot escape. You haveto come say hi, okay,
and I will require huw you willyou all? You want to go hi?

(41:22):
You want to say hi to allof these things. And the truth
is, Chef, I know thatthis is in a lot of ways,
not the not the end. Ihave a big hunch that there's a lot
more things up your sleeves, andalso doing being able to sort of manage
a great family and spend time withyour beautiful wife and anyway you do so
much filling like for the philanthropy inthe city. There's so many things we

(41:43):
could talk about. I can haveyou on for another hour, but thank
you for joining us, Thank youfor all that you do, and thanks
for sharing this hour with us.Chef, thanks so much, Jenny really
appreciate it. You're the very best. Okay, that's it for today and
we will see you next week withmore food for thoughts. Off to you
by the box. I'm sering.Now it's time for sixty minutes.