The Hummingbird Show

Join us for a celebration of all things hummingbird! Three outstanding guests share their expertise on hummingbirds and welcoming them to your garden. Featured shrub: Snippet Dark Pink weigela.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Coming to you from Studio A Hereat proven winner's color choice Shrubs. It's
time for the Gardening Simplified Radio YouTubeand podcast show with Stacy Hervella, me,
Rick Weist, and our engineer andproducer Adrianna Robinson. Like all birds,
hummingbirds have basic habitat requirements including food, water, shelter, and space

(00:25):
to forge and breed in order tothrive. And we all love to see
hummingbirds playing in our yards and ourlandscape and our space, and we want
to try to attract these. I'mgoing to call them pugnacious birds, small
but packing a punch. It's nostretch that synonyms for pugnacious are fitting bellicos,

(00:46):
chippy, feisty, even gladiatorial whenin Rome do as the Romans do,
and Stacy, they are evidence,however, that there is a direct
correlation between the health and diversity ofyour landscape in the wildlife that it attracts.
I love that. That's always goodto hear. Beautiful and colorful.

(01:07):
Coming up on today's show suggested hummingbirdattracting plants and interviews with nationally recognized hummingbird
experts Alan Shartier and Sherry Williamson authorof a field guide to hummingbirds of North
America with us on our liveline tokick things off is our very own birdman,

(01:27):
Bill Stovell. And Bill, we'vetalked recently about bird houses and nesting
and that sort of thing. Buthummingbirds aren't necessarily interested in a house.
They like to live out on thelimb and their travelers, aren't they.
That's a fact. Yes, theymake a little nest up on a flat
spot on a limb, off andon a white, fine limb before I've

(01:49):
seen them, and they're the prettiestlittle nests. They just a little tiny
thing. They make them out offighter webs and out of lichens and out
of little bits of fluff they find. And the inside of the nests is
about the size of a quarter.Wow, really small. Yeah, you're
so right, Bill, because Ihad read somewhere the eggs of the hummingbird

(02:10):
are no bigger than let's say,the size of a navy bean. And
that soft, almost expandable nest usingspider webs lichens, as Bill had mentioned,
Stacy, I think many people havenever seen a hummingbird nest. Well,
they're deliberately, very careful about wherethey put it. Because they are

(02:31):
so little and they don't have alot of defenses, so they're not going
to you know, dive bomb youlike the famous red wing blackbirds of Grand
Rapids defending their nest. You know, so they need to be very sneaky
about it. Oh, and talkabout travel bill migration. You take the
ruby throat at hummingbird found in theEastern US crossing the Gulf of Mexico every

(02:53):
year. You know, it migratesbetween overwintering sites in central Mexico and summer
breeding grounds in the Eastern US.And then you take the rufous hummingbird that
travels thousands of miles and I meanthousands of miles. Think about over wintering
in Mexico and spending your summers inAlaska. Unbelievable the territory these birds cover.

(03:19):
That's amazing too. You know,they binge before they go. They
double their weight, wow, sothat they have enough energy to make it
go. They just eat and eatand eat, and all of a sudden,
they can fly those long distances withoutstopping. Wow. So they fly
without stopping, so they don't youknow, stop in southern California or the
flower fields of central California for alittle break on the way. Oh they

(03:42):
could, I mean they don't.They're not starved. I've got plenty of
energy to get there. That's amazing. You know. One interesting thing I've
observed with the hummingbirds is that theyof course feed by day on nectar from
flowers. So we're talking about annualsand perennials, tree shrubs, vines,

(04:03):
but also insects are important to hummingbirds, fruit flies, gnats. I've even
heard of hummingbirds consuming tree sap am, I correct in that bird man.
A good portion of the of theprotein they get is from the insects,
so there's a big factor. Thirtyto forty percent of their diet is little

(04:27):
insects. But all your plants,of course attract all these little insects too.
You look at the data on hummingbirdsand how fast their heart races and
their wings flap. They have tohave some high energy fuel to be able
to function well. They have tohave high energy fuel because it seems to
me at times they only eat sothey can get enough energy to fight off

(04:49):
their predators or other predators. Butthey're competitors, they're each other, right,
I mean, they pack a lotof rage into those little bodies.
Yes, they do pugnacious right.The best way to support hummingbirds and other
pollinators in your area, of course, is to plant nectar plants. But
this is interesting. Some scientists suggestthe presence of feeders may impact natural pollination

(05:14):
of plants alter hummingbird behavior. Thereare other people who say, no,
no, no, no. Feedershelp bolster hummingbird populations by counteracting the loss
of forage and habitat caused by humanactivity. I guess there's some debate on
this matter. I mean camp numbertwo very strongly, because when the hummingbirds

(05:35):
come back, sometimes there isn't enoughblossom availability, but they can start with
sugar water until the insects increase andthe flowers increase to maintain their their their
health. So it's it's a it'sa twofold area and it's so simple.

(05:57):
And it's also helped people recogni thebirds and have the entertainment of having them
in their side yard in front ofthe window, and that encourages them to
plant things that will keep them inthe yard. No, absolutely, you
know, seeing them and starting toappreciate them really is the first step to
you know, conservation and making surethat you are doing the right thing.

(06:17):
And you know, I find Ihave a combination of both as well.
I have a lot of plants thatattract hummingbirds through in bloom you know,
from spring until fall, and abunch of feeders. And I'll tell you,
when they visit the yard, theymake use of both. They're not
just like one or the other.They're they're browsing the buffet, they're coming
up to the dessert table. They'redoing it all. Yeah, And if
you think about it, we talkedabout diversity in the landscape. Sure,

(06:41):
nectar flowers in the landscape, butthey want trees in order to build their
nests. There's certain plants that theywant to help build their nests, like
lambs eer is a plant in thelandscape that I've heard hummingbirds use. So,
again, build diversity in the landscapeis pro probably going to help attract
these these beautiful birds to your yard. That's a fact. Now, this

(07:09):
this is an international show. Sothe ruby throats are basically east of the
Mississippi, but there are fifteen specieswest of the Mississippi, particularly in the
Southwest, and there are places thatthere are centers where they just put up
these these beautiful gardens and these sugarwater feeders, and they just flooded with

(07:34):
many species of the huntingbird at thesame time. It's amazing many different species.
You are correct, and we'll talkto Sherry Williamson about that also,
Birdman in summer. Sometimes people willsend me pictures or video of this cool
hummingbird that they saw in their landscapeand reality it wasn't a hummingbird at all.

(07:56):
It was a moth right at thinkspot. Yes, they're a wonderful
little thing. They're gorgeous and thatwill show up and they're just they just
buzz around and they're just studis canbe so, but they're they're not a
bird, no, but they can. You know, I have I am.
I feel like I'm a good birdobserver, and I have been momentarily
thrown by a clear wing mouth orsphinx moth because they they kind of hover

(08:20):
in browse plants and of course thesame plants the hummingbirds would in the same
way. And you know, youyou you experienced that with the right person,
They're not even going to believe youthat it wasn't a bird bird.
Well, there they're the ecological gapbetween hummers are the gap between birds and
bees because they do an awful lotof pollinating while they're doing the getting their

(08:43):
staff. Definitely, absolutely, absolutelybirdman. As I mentioned coming up on
the show Sherry Williamson and the NorthAmerican Guide to Hummingbirds Peterson's Guide. You
had a chance to meet mister Peterson, Yeah, more than once, and
he was a very high energy guy, a big man, and just bubbled

(09:07):
with enthusiasm. He's a fabulous artistand his research on his first first book,
which was nineteen forty nineteen thirty nine, nineteen forty seven, nineteen sixty
seven, was the original Bible ofbirding, and it had a lot to
do and there was a lot abouthummingbirds in that. So it's easy to

(09:31):
say he was one of your inspirationsas a birder, as a naturalist,
as somebody who enjoys and loves conservationin the landscape, probably one of your
influences. Well, I grew upin Western New York, which is real
close to Cornell, and we hada lot of Cornell people, and he

(09:52):
was from Chautauqua Lake, an area, and it was kind of a birding
center where I came from, andso it was a lot of fun to.
I have several monitaris there in myHamburg, New York area to help
me on its path. So I'vebeen doing birding ever since I've a little
kid. That's fantastic bird man.We appreciate you, thanks for getting us

(10:16):
started. Today it's going to bethe big humming Bird Show. And coming
up next Stacey and I will sharewith you some favorites that we use to
attract hummingbirds to our landscape. That'scoming up next here on the Gardening Simplified
Show. Proven Winners, Color ChoiceShrubs cares about your success in the garden.

(10:41):
That's why we trial and test allof our shrubs for eight to ten
years, making sure they outperform everythingelse on the market. Look for them
and the distinctive white container at yourlocal garden center. Greetings, gardening friends,
and welcome back to the Gardening SimplifiedShow, The Hummingbirds Simpler Show.
If you can simplify them, theyare quite complex and fascinating creatures. And

(11:05):
you know, I think one thingthat is truly amazing about hummingbirds that a
lot of people don't realize is thatthey are only found in the Americas.
So if you are abroad, ifyou're in another country, you will not
see hummingbirds. Interest. There aresome similar ish birds in other tropical countries,
but for the most part, theyare uniquely ours. And they're one

(11:28):
of those plants that if you everare looking at like birding groups online on
Facebook or forums, you know,that's like when people from Europe come to
the US, that's what they hopeto see is a hummingbird. Lucky us,
right, and they have starlings.We have humming birds, right,
So like the ruby throated hummingbird forus is just like, you know,
such a lifer for them, sucha bird that they would truly desire to

(11:50):
see. And so I always think, you know, especially in later summer
when they're going bananas in my yard, just like, oh, if only
one of those people could just likecome in here and just see how wonderful
they are. And so I thinkit's important that we don't lose sight of
how amazing it is that we havethem, especially in the north. You
know. It's one thing. Ofcourse, in the southwest, where the

(12:11):
climate is much more amenable with yearround food, we don't have that.
But it is plants on trial.So of course we're talking about plants and
hummingbirds, and I grow a hugediversity of plants. I mean, one
of my main criteria for adding aplant to my garden is does it,
you know, somehow support intacts orbirds, and so a lot of plants

(12:33):
that I happen to have do.Actually, So I've seen the hummingbirds recently
visiting my nepada. My cat's meout epaa. They are loving that,
sampling all sorts of other things.All my annuals I specifically buy for hummingbirds.
So yeah, that's me. That'sa good way to like get money's
worth out of them. And againdiversity. Yeah, this morning, Yes,

(12:54):
I saw hummingbirds at my nepotas inthe backyards. Yeah, they're having
a gradile. They're they eat hugara. They feed on hucraa flowers, which
a lot of people, you know, they think kukraa, oh that foliage
plant if you have a good onefor flowering. They love the flowers on
yukra. And I didn't believe thatwould be the case since they're so close
to the ground, you know,the hugra of flowers. But I have
seen it myself and I can attestand you know, when I was thinking

(13:18):
about what plants are put on trialtoday. I had a couple. I
mean, we have many different shrubsthat attract hummingbirds and sustain hummingbirds through the
season. But I was thinking aboutan experience I had two weeks ago.
I was staying with some friends inann Arbor, and they have a kind
of a unique landscape where their houseis like a split level and so you
look down onto sort of a cavernousdriveway and they have all these cascading plants

(13:41):
coming over their driveway. And Iwas looking out the window and there were
some wigilla down there that were absolutelymobbed with hummingbirds. Now that shouldn't really
be surprising because waijilla have all thetrademark characteristics of being a good hummingbird food
plant, trumpet shaped flowers, thatkind of pink red color family typically,

(14:01):
although there are some white varieties outthere, but I had never really seen
them like making so much use outof the whitejela. And I thought,
I can see it, Yeah,I can see it. And I thought,
well, why don't I have awhitegela because this is kind of great.
And when you are thinking about,you know, adding a whitela,
it's important to think about these springflowering plants, you know, like Birdman

(14:22):
was just saying that you need tohave food sources for them from when they
arrive in here in Michigan. That'susually late April, like the last week
of April or thereabouts, you know, and especially then it's important because it's
cold and they need to refuel aftertheir long journey. So we need plants
that, you know, sometimes allthe summer stuff gets all the credit,
you know, like your canas ofcourse for us not blooming until summer.

(14:45):
So it's really good when you're thinkingabout this diversity. It's not just a
diversity of plant types, it's adiversity of bloom times. And for people
keeping score at home, when Idrove up to the studio today, Stacey,
the Woogella were just in full bloomand gorgeous here in Michigan right now.
Yeah, they are an absolute peakbloom. And so there's such a
great choice for that. And whenI was thinking about which of our white

(15:07):
Gela is to put on trial today, I decided on snippet dark pink Whitjela,
and I picked this one for twomain reasons. I mean, we've
already established whyjela are great for hummingbirds. But I picked this particular one for
two main reasons. Number one,it is a reblooming why gula. Okay,
so it's gonna bloom now along withall the other white gela, and
then it's gonna take a little bitof a break and put on more new

(15:30):
growth, and in that period,as much new growth as it puts on,
it will be able to create additionalflowers on to bloom throughout summer.
Fabulous. So with reblooming whitedela likeSnippet dark Pink or Arsonic Bloom series,
you're getting that much longer window ofa food source without really having to do
anything or take up more space oranything like that. So that's one thing
I really like in terms of findinga why igela to accommodate hummingbirds. And

(15:52):
then the second one is, asyou may yes by that name Snippet dark
pink, this is a very smallwhitela, and some older wiglas they get
really large, and so people Ithink, you know a lot of times
they have a nostalgic connection to Iigella, but they are thinking of like,
you know, their gramma's wigelo andthey were growing up, which a They
were probably like two and a halffeet tall at the time, so the

(16:12):
things seemed extra big and be theolder varieties were legitimately quite large, large
woody, flopping over intimidate right.So snippet dark pink reaches just one to
two feet tall and wide. Sothis is a whigella that if you're looking
for ways to attract hummingbirds and you'reshort on space, so you have a

(16:32):
condo, an apartment, a balcony, something like that, this is a
plant that is going to take upvery little space but give you a lot
of bang for your buck. Andof course the flowers have that nice dark
pink color. We many of usknow that hummingbirds are more attracted to like
the red dark pink color range,although they're not particularly picky, you know.
We were just talking about them beingon NEPAA, which is blue,
bluish purple, and so it's agreat choice I think for all of those

(16:56):
characteristics to just kind of tuck intoyour gar and you want to put it
in full sun like most way Gulait is a full sun plant and then
just sit back and watch the hummingbirdscome by. You sold me. I'm
going to add snippet to my landscape. Now again, we've talked about this
a number of times already today,diversity and you know favorite hummingbird plants,

(17:19):
would Youila, You're right, absolutelyhas to be on that list. Do
you have a couple of other reallygo tos that you really think this one?
I mean, I think Kufia isone. Yeah, you know,
I love my kufia, and vermillionaireCufia from proven Winters is one that I
have to grow every year because ofthe hummingbirds. You know, they don't

(17:40):
so I put those right on eitherside of my back door, and they
don't tend to feed at them quitea lot until later in the season and
then they're just like you know,they're just crazed for food. Sure,
and so in that case then Isee them a lot. But it's still,
you know, just because I don'tsee them doesn't mean that they're not
there. So cufias it must havefor me. Any kind of selvia,
and I know you're a selvia persontoo. Salvia big time. Looking forward

(18:00):
to twenty twenty five unplugged red Salviadynamic cultivar of our native scarlet sage.
Looking forward to this proven winner's plantbut any of the unplugged or rockin series
of salvias from proven winners. Andthen of course, yes, Stacy,
I am the can of King andcanas are my go to for humming Well,

(18:21):
you know, talk about a redflowers. I mean there are cannons
with other flowers, but the classicone that you have, that red flower
is irresistible to them, and it'snice and tall, and I think that
having that height difference, having alot of different heights is also good for
them. I mean, I'm alwayssurprised to see them get so close to
the ground, but you know they'llbe They're still going to be very cautious
about predators or you know, anythinglike that. So they do also tend

(18:44):
to like plants that flower a littlebit higher in the sky. I am
actually trying a new annual this year. I don't know if you're familiar with
it, Hummingbird Falls Salvia. Andthis is a what they're calling a hanging
basket salvia. I've never grown up, so instead of growing up right like
other salvia's, it's actually cascading andso you do see it in hanging baskets.

(19:04):
I did not get it in ahanging basket I just got like a
standalone one gallon that I'm going toput into a container in my hummingbird garden.
I'm very excited to try that.And you know, this isn't a
plant, but I have. Idid something almost life changing this week,
and a small thing almost life changing. I can't yet speak to spreaking news
simplified show let's hear it. Ican't yet speak to how it's gonna affect

(19:27):
the humming birds. But my momwas showing me this video of a woman
who lives out in California and createsall these wacky solar fountains for hummingbirds and
they love to bathe in them.And so I had this bird feeder or
this bird bath that I loved,but it was really deep and not convenient
for the birds because it was toodeep. They couldn't get in it.
I tried putting rocks, it wasa pain to clean. I bought a

(19:49):
solar bird bath fountain, and allyou do is you fill up the bird
bath and you put this thing inthere, and like even as soon as
I took it outside, it's justlike it's like whoa son, I'm going
It has all these different little nozzlesthat you can put on it. It
is amazing. Now. I justput this up over the weekend last weekend,

(20:10):
so right now. So I haven'tbeen able to say for sure because
it takes them some time. Andthis is true if you put up you
know, a feeder or anything likethat, it takes some time to feel
comfortable. Sure, they stake itout for a bit first, but I'm
pretty confident that this is going tobe a hummingbird game changer, and even
if it isn't, honestly, it'sa lot of fun. We were playing

(20:30):
around with the nozzles, changing themout and as long as it's sunny,
you're good to go. So betweenthe bird bath and the unplugged red salvia
for twenty twenty five, wow,Yeah, the game change decked out.
It is getting decked out for thehummingbirds. Yeah, and that's what I
love too. And you know what, all of these things at the end
of the day, they're good forthe hummingbirds, but they're good for you

(20:51):
too, because it's great to justhave a lot of flowers in your yard,
not just for the hummingbirds, butfor bees and other you know,
insects and things that visit the gardenand and then your yard looks better and
you feel like a garden rock star. So it's win win when it's just
win all around. So whatever youcan do to improve your garden for hummingbirds,
whether that is planting Snippet Dark PinkWay Jela or one of the many

(21:11):
Proven Winners annuals that sustain hummingbirds,or maybe adding a solar fountain to an
unused bird bath, it's all good. We're going to take a little break.
When we come back, we havegot a guest, so please stay
tuned. At Proven Winner's Color Choice, We've got a shrub for every taste

(21:33):
and every space. Whether you're lookingfor an easy care rose and unforgettable hydrangea
or something new and unique, youcan be confident that the shrubs and the
white containers have been trialed and testedfor your success. Look for them at
your local garden center. You know, I love my Cooper Million. It's
our privilege. And Alan he isthe Michigan hummingbird guy. He's been interested

(21:57):
in science and nature since he wasfive years old and began bird watching when
he was eleven, and now thatincludes wow birding trips to twenty eight countries.
Has birded in all fifty US states. Alan is an amazing photographer.
He's been a bird bander since nineteenninety seven and a hummingbird bander since two

(22:19):
thousand when he began the Great LakesHummernet Research Project. Alan, it's a
privilege and a pleasure to have youon the Gardening Simplified Show. Well,
thank you for inviting me. Alan. Can you start off by talking to
our listeners and our viewers about birdbanding, specifically hummingbirds, why it's important

(22:45):
and give us an idea of whatthat process is like. Well, I'll
try to be brief. Bird Bandingis a research tool that has been used
for well over one hundred years guardedwith banding of waterfowl, and it helped
to work out the migration corridors ofmigrating ducks and geese, and the hunters

(23:10):
would shoot the birds and the numberswould get recorded, and so you'd find
out where the bird was banded,where it was shot, and pieced together
their migration routes. It's come along way since then, but it still
is basically an aluminum ring of bandplaced on a bird's leg with a unique

(23:32):
number on it, so that whenit's found one way or another, either
shot as in a duck or recapturedas in maybe another hummingbird bander on the
Gulf Coast of Texas. That numbercan be reported back to the US Geological
Survey's bird banding Lab. And thisis a highly regulated activity that requires a
lot of training. You have tohave valid research project in order to become

(23:56):
a bird bander. And there areprobably the ducks and geese and things that's
all kind of vn rs and fishand wildlife does that. But songbirds.
There are maybe two or three thousandof US across North America that do different
kinds of projects with songbirds, andthere's only about one hundred of US who

(24:18):
do hummingbirds because it requires a specialpermit beyond the regular songbird permit and special
training. And there are different reasonsfor that, but it's you know,
they're small. A lot of ithas to do with the fact that they're
very small birds, and safety ispriority one with all of these research projects.

(24:40):
You want to make sure that youknow, if you're going to put
a band on a bird to learnsomething about it, that the birds are
not harmed or in any way orthere's no detrimental effect, So you want
to figure out their longevity and theirmigration routs and things like that. So
being highly trained to be as safeas possible is all part of the process.

(25:00):
And just how tiny is a bandfor a hummingbird? So I do
PowerPoint programs for garden clubs and birdclubs, and I have a PowerPoint presentation
showing one of these bands on thetip of my finger, and that's really
the best way to see how smallthey are. So I mean, if
I tell you that the bands areroughly two millimeters in diameter and one point

(25:25):
four millimeters tall, that sounds small, but when you see it on my
finger in a photo, it's reallyreally small. A band that we put
on a chickadee is like eight timesbigger. Wow, that's amazing. And
the bands are for songbirds come tous in the envelopes in strings of one

(25:48):
hundred on a wire and they're stampedand curled into a you know, a
ring. The hummingbird bands come tous on a flat sheet. They have
to cut them out with special toolsand file them down and pet them to
size, so we actually have tomake them versus you know, that's where
the special training comes in, soyou need to have really good close vision,

(26:08):
which I've been near sighted. I'veworn glasses since I was eight years
old, and so working with tinythings has been kind of second nature to
me. But you have to makethe bands so that they the right size.
They won't be too tighter or toolarge and stuff off and no sharp
edges and all that stuff. Sobut yeah, they're very tiny. People

(26:33):
often ask me how much do theyweigh? My scale way to the tenth
of a gram, and I don'tknow. I put one on it registers
zero. Other people telling me theyweigh like eight milligrams or something like that,
so about eight thousands of a gram. So they're very very light,
don't impede the bird bird's movement orflight in any way. And you know,
all the other bands for all theother birds are also generally made out

(26:56):
of aluminum, except for in somecases, like cardinals have a really powerful
bite, they have to use stainlesssteel bands for some of those birds because
they can just smash the aluminum withtheir bags. Interesting, we're talking to
Alan Shartier and he is the Michiganhummingbird Guy. Now the link to his

(27:17):
website. We're gonna put that atour website, Gardening Simplified on air dot
com, and those of you watchingon YouTube, you can see some of
that information on your screen also becausethere are links there that describe some of
this work that Alan does as wellas incredible pictures that he takes from northern

(27:40):
flickers to tree swallows and yellow warblerson his Flicker account. That link is
there on his account. Also importantwork that you do with banding. Alan.
For our listeners and our viewers,someone who has a backyard, loves
flowers and plants, a word ofadvice for our listeners as far as hummingbirds

(28:02):
are concerned, and what you've learnedthrough the years, how can we appreciate
them best? How can we supporthummingbird populations well? As a hummingbird researcher,
I am not home very much,and as a photographer, I really
am into wildflowers of all kinds.So I don't have a really good background

(28:25):
in gardening because I'm not home longenough to do any of it. But
having spoken to lots and lots ofgarden clubs and familiar with a whole lot
of other researchers who work on this, it's good to have a home that
is a yard that is a littlebit scruffy for wildlife in general. Really
manicured spot is not going to bethat good for wildlife in general. And

(28:48):
I like to promote the nectar sourcesfrom flowers, and you can put bird
feed hummingbird feeders up as well,with the realization that you know, the
hummingbird feeders are mostly for you tobe able to see them closer. The
nectar sources. I like to promotenative plants primarily, although there are a
lot of non native plants that hummingbirdsreally do like as well, and there's

(29:11):
some other plants that are kind ofin between. So for example, the
trumpet vine is a very well knownamong hummingbird enthusiasts plant. It's got five
inch long red tubular flowers and itneeds support in full sun, and it
grows up on a trellis or afence really well. But it's not native

(29:33):
as far north as Michigan, butit is native to North America. Other
plants like hostas are native to Japan, but they are hummingbirds like them too,
And then of course all kinds ofnative species like cardinal flower, columbines,
and then verbenas and lobelias and thingslike that. Turtle head, wild

(30:00):
bergamot, things like that are alsovery good. A plant that grows in
wet places is it's called jewel weedor spotted touch me not, and most
people don't put that in the gardenbecause it needs to be wet. But
it looms in fall during my fallmigration of hummingbirds, and the hummingbird is
an important pollinator of that plant.So keeping all of this in mind is

(30:26):
keeping Tubular plants are the primary interestto hummingbirds. Generally, they don't like
to feed from open flat plants,you know. One one exception would be
impatience. People often have impatience hangingfrom their their porches or and so forth,

(30:48):
and the hummingbirds will go to those, and they'll go to petunia's as
well. But flat plants like daisiestend to have a lot of insects,
stinging insects landing on them, andthere's a lot of competition for the hummy
birds. The tugular plants allow thehummingbirds to stick its beak in there and
have privacy while it licks out thatlittle micro lead of nectar. Well,

(31:08):
nobody else can get at it,and so they can go in there and
visit flower after flower after flower.So the tubular nature of the flower is
important, and red is on thehummingbird feeders, but our ruby thryer hummingbirds
are not necessarily don't require red plants. You know, some of these lobilies

(31:30):
are blue or purple, the columbinesare red and yellow, the turtle heads
there's white ones. And so thehummingbirds will find the nectar if you put
a variety of these kinds of thingsin your yard and also try to find
things that bloom. From finding thingsthat bloom in May is difficult in Michigan,
but throughout the summer and into thefall, hummingbirds are used to nectar

(31:52):
sources coming and going because there's noplant that blooms all all growing season.
Along if you have things that willreplace, you know, when your columbines
whether and die out, you've gotmaybe a verbena or maybe a bergamot coming
in later, and then maybe thelobelias, and then maybe even your jewel

(32:13):
weeds coming in later. So ifyou have things that kind of cycle through
the season, your hummingbirds will alwayshave some nectar sources. And then of
course they have a fairly large range, so half a mile to three quarters
of a mile, So they're notjust visiting your garden much as you might
like to think that you're your birds. They're going out into the woodlands nearby,
and they're they're finding the native plantsout there as well, and they're

(32:36):
eating insects too, so insects arealso an important part of their diet.
So keeping your garden pesticide free isimportant. Even though you might not want
insects, the hummingbirds want them,and they like the tiny flying insects.
Then the pesticides will go into theroot system and into the nectar and into
the hummingbirds, so you want toavoid doing that too. Wow. That

(32:58):
was incredible, really well said,and we appreciate that. Alan. We
we have been talking to Alan Shartierand if you're interested in learning more,
his website is great go to it. We have the link at Gardeningsimplified on
air dot com or right here onYouTube on your screen. Alan. Thank
you so much for what you dofor for birding and we appreciate your time

(33:23):
here on the Gardening Simplified shows aremost even close for sure. I know
I like your primarily although lovers andthere's so For example, the trumpet vine
is a very well known among TheGardening Simplified Show is brought to you by
proven Winners, Color Choice Shrubs.Our award winning flowering shrubs and evergreens have

(33:46):
been trialed and tested for your success, so you enjoy more beauty and less
work. Look for proven Winners,color Choice shrubs and the distinctive white container
at your local garden center. Welcomeback to the Gardener Simplified Show. Today,
for our branching news segment, wehave the privilege to chat with Sherry
Williamson. She is a naturalist,ornithologist, conservationist, birder writer, author,

(34:13):
artist. Sherry and her husband andcolleague Tom Wood, moved to Arizona
to work as live in managers ofthe Nature Conservancy's Ramsey Canyon Preserved through nineteen
ninety five. So her more recentwork has been restoring and managing the gardens
at ash Canyon Birds Sanctuary, abirding hotspot just a few miles from Ramsey.

(34:36):
Sherry is the author of a PetersonField Guide to Hummingbirds of North America.
It was originally published in two thousandand two, and she's currently working
on a revision of a field Guideto Hummingbirds for North America. Sherry,
thank you so much for joining uson the Gardening Simplified Show. Thank you
so much for having me. I'mdelighted to be here. I loved listening

(35:00):
to a podcast an interview that youdid when you said, I have you've
mentioned that you consider hummingbirds a gatewaydrug to nature and conservancy. I love
that because I have often said inthe garden industry, tomatoes and peppers are

(35:21):
the gateway drug to garden. Thereare a lot of gateway drugs out there,
of the good kind, Yes,exactly. So gardening and birdie and
conservation are all very a wholesome thing. So we're glad to have those kinds
of gateway drugs in our lives.Absolutely. Now, of course, all

(35:43):
of the links to Sherry's website andthe many things that she does, including
her book, you'll find them.We're going to link them to our website,
Gardening Simplified on air dot com.But Sherry, I was reading in
your blog, I was fascinated bythis. You say, hummingbirds truly are
masters of color, creating more huesand iridescence than any other birds combined,

(36:07):
or all other birds combined. That'squite a statement, it is. You
know, that was the result ofa relatively recent study where they analyze the
colors found in birds, and youthink about many, many colors that are
produced by pigments, but also theincredible rainbow of colors produced by iridescence.

(36:30):
But humming birds, they found,have their colors occupy a broader range of
the spectrum than any other birds do. And what's even more amazing, though,
is that that spectrum goes beyond thecolors that we humans can see.
We only have three kinds of visualpigments in our eyes. Hummingbirds have four,

(36:52):
and they can see they can seecolors into what we consider the ultra
violet, into what we consider theintra red. They have incredible color discrimination.
So it kind of makes sense thatViRGE in general, but humming birds
in particular, would have these incredibleranges of color within their plumage. But

(37:13):
hummingbirds with their mastuator doesn't. They'velocked up the title of the most colorful
birds on Earth. Well, they'rethe only green bird we have here in
the North. That's one thing thatI've eard green bird, which I think
says a lot. You know,we have a rainbow of everything else.
We got our cardinals, we gotour orioles, we got a lot of
yellow, But they're really the onlytrue green bird that's not waterfowl that we

(37:37):
can enjoy here in the North.Yeah, green is kind of a hard
color to produce. It, Sofor most birds, green has to a
combination of a structural blue color combinedwith the yellow pigments and the things you
female painted burning for example, havethat green jay down in South Texas and

(37:58):
into the tropics of that. Butmost birds produce those greens, if they
have greens at all, by iridescent, and often they're dark greens or more
subtle greens like what's the green anda green wind field for example. But
the humming birds, of course,most of our hummingbirds in North America have
green on them somewhere. That's oneof the common questions we did about hummingbird

(38:20):
at indication is I saw this hummingbirdin my arts and they had a green
back. What kind was it?That doesn't narrow it down much? But
green, of course makes perfect sensefor a tiny little bird that has a
lot of enemies, lots of thingslike to eat hummingbirds from birds that prey
on other birds and mammals that preyon other birds, and snakes and stuff
all the way to some large insects, things like praying mand it's like to

(38:45):
prey on hummingbirds as well, sothat green color helps it camouflage them when
they're not trying to be conspicuous likemales in their courtship display in your studies,
Sherry, along that line in ourfirst segment, I mentioned that I
consider hummingbirds to be pugnacious or feistyor shippy, and of course the amazing

(39:07):
bills on these birds. Can thosebills do physical damage? In other words,
you know, when when they're fighting, is it just belligerent posturing or
are they actually doing physical damage?Some of that depends on the species of
hummingbird we're talking about. That billis its main purpose, of course,

(39:28):
is to probe flowers to extract neckerand it's full of nerve endings and blood
vessels. It's not just like ayoung foothpeck or something on the front of
their head. It's full of livingtissue and very very sensitive. So it's
a little problematic to use something likethat as a weapon. However, there
are a few tropical hummingbirds that havesome adaptations that make their that weaponize those

(39:53):
food probes. Basically, some ofthe hermit humming birds, the male have
sharp little hooks on the tips ofthe built and they'll use those to rip
feathers out of each other. Theywill sometimes poke each other and inflect minor
stab wounds, not like you know, piercing somebody with a rapier or something,
but they can do some damage withthose buildings. Only sometimes when we're

(40:16):
when I'm handling humming bird as we'rebanding humming birds during the studies with the
Southeastern Arizona Bird Observatory, which arelicense permitted by the Bird Banding Laboratory of
the US Geological Service, sometimes I'llcome pollen birds that have conspicuous bruises or
a little bits of form skin ontheir chips. Not very often, but

(40:38):
most of the damage they do isjust ripping feathers out of each other.
But it certainly is a possibility nowdown there in southeast southeastern Arizona. How
many species of hummingbird are you ableto enjoy? We have fifteen species on
a semi regular to very regular basis. We've got about a half dozen breeding

(41:01):
species that are quite common and widespread. Uh and a few others that are
are you know, less common,much less common. But if you know
the place to find them, youcan find them. And then we also
have lots of migrants. It's oneof the special things about being where we
are is that we're we're in thatzone where Mexico meets the US, where

(41:23):
the north meets to the south,where the tropics meet the temperate zone.
Also where the mountains meets the desert, where are real crossroads of geography and
and habitat. So we get youknow, rufus and coliope hummingbirds as migrants
we cashunk at Allen's coming over fromCalifornia. But we have as breeding birds

(41:44):
we've got and as in coasters andblack tenned and broad builds and broad tails,
and ribbles and blue sort of mountaingyms, occasionally white eared humming bird
occasionally barrely humming. Now I havea question. So here in the north,
where we really only have room throats, we and my mom has noticed
this too. My mom learn appreciate, learn my appreciation of hummingbirds. For

(42:06):
my mom and my grandparents, sothey tend to be very, very territorial
and like you would not. It'svery rare that I would see two retirated
hummingbirds on any of my feeders atany one time, Like it just doesn't
happen, Like they perch and waitto chase each other away. But you
can look, you know, onYouTube or Instagram or anywhere and see these

(42:29):
videos coming from California, from Arizonaof multiple you know, hummingbirds just mobbing
feeders and mobbing yards. And isthat a matter of different species? Is
it just that they are more comfortablethere, there's less competition for food.
What explains that of actually a lotof that and the more competition for food
because when food is scarce, wedo see hummingbirds coming to feeders in a

(42:52):
lot larger numbers and being more tolerantof one another. Oh interesting. Yeah.
One of the most amazing spectacles ofhummingbird feeding that I ever saw,
just in the fact that it wasthis real peaceable kingdom situation was in New
Mexico at the world famous busket AlipachiNational Wildlife Refuge. It was a summer

(43:14):
visit during the breeding season for theirresident blackchin hummingbirds, and it was a
very dry year, really drought strickenarea. Everything was brown and dry,
not a lot of flower next forthe birds, so they were depending Even
though the marshes and water impoundments thatBusky provide a lot of insects for the
birds to eat, they were dependingon feeders for their sugar, for the

(43:39):
energy from the sugar to help powertheir very active lifestyle. For especially for
the females as they were nesting andtheir feeders. At the visitors center at
Bosky, there were often a dozenor more birds around each feeder. There
were birds that were sitting next toone another feeding out of the same feeder
port, and sometimes a third birdwould come in from above to feed.

(44:01):
Wow, these were These were allfemales, so they were getting along a
lot better than the male and themost important thing for each of them,
since each of them had young onesdepending on them, the most important thing
for them was to get that energy, get back to that nest and take
care of their kids. They didn'thave time for fighting. No time for

(44:22):
fighting. You will see during migration. You will see the females whos pugnacious
and ferrocious to the males. Buta lot of that territoriality breaks down when
resources are scarce. Everybody's dependent onthe same narrow range of resources, and
everybody's got that very important business ofgetting the kids bed and pledged and out

(44:43):
on their own. Now I havethat reminded me another question I have.
So, when hummingbirds have young inthe nest, are they feeding them on
nectar that they're just like storing somewherein their mouths or beaks, or do
they collect insects for their young?How are they getting food back to their
young? It's both, and likeother birds, hummingbirds carry their well,

(45:05):
most of the birds carry their foodin their crop, which is an expandable
part of their esophagus. It performsthe storage function of our own stomachs,
but it kind of keeps the foodoutside the bird's main body, so it
serves a little bit different different anatomicalfunction in that it's hanging off the bird's

(45:27):
neck. Basically, if you've everseen pictures of African vultures around a zebra
kill or something, you see thisbig, fleshy looking bulge on their necks.
That's the crop where the food isstored before it goes down into the
gizzard and gets processed and ground upand then into the intestines. Where all
the nutrients are extracted. So whenwe are looking at these breeding female hummingbirds,

(45:49):
they will have often very distended crops, and those crops will be full
of insects, but there will alsooften be nextor in there as well.
A lot of it depends on whatstage their babies are at. When the
babies are very small, they mostlyneed the nutrition that they're going to get
from insects and spiders and other animalfoods. They've got to have the proteins,
the minerals to build their strong bones. All those little micronutrients of various

(46:14):
kinds, the amino acids and allof that vitamins and all that have to
be in their food, their babyfood essentially, so for them to grow
on and they grow so rapidly,they need a lot. But if they
get bigger and their little wings startto develop, they start to grow on
their wings and start flapping their wingsso they can strengthen their muscles and grow
their muscles to make it possible forthem to take that first light. Mom

(46:37):
is giving them more and more nectarto provide that sugar energy that they need
to power that increase metabolis. Duringthat later stage of nestling period. We're
chatting with Sherry Williamson. She isthe author of a Peterson Field Guide to
Hummingbirds of North America and at theAsh Canyon Birdsanctuary. I want to ask

(47:00):
you about that bird sanctuary, Sherry, But prior to that, Stacey had
mentioned the ruby throated hummingbirds here alongthe lake shore in West Michigan. Of
course, I enjoy a number ofthem in my landscape. I've always had
this imagination in fall of them migratingand traveling over the Gulf of Mexico,

(47:24):
and I've often wondered is that true? Are they traveling across that large expanse
of water to get to where theyneed to go, or do they hug
the shoreline? Have any studies beendone on that? Well, you know,
actually the best information we have onthat is from just everyday folks that

(47:45):
are contributing their sightings to the eBird database. E Bird is a project
of the cornellab of Ornithology and anumber of other organizations cooling their resource to
create this database that ordinary citizens,scientists are or community scientists can contribute their

(48:06):
sightings to. And when you lookat those at those sightings, the Cornell
has literally they've literally mapped the sidingson a date basis, and you can
actually watch an animation on their websiteshowing how the birds migrate, and you
can see that, in fact,a long standing idea that they were migrating

(48:29):
both directions across the Gulf of Mexico, that's not so much true. Most
of those birds that are coming southin August September, they are coming around
the gulf, and there's a numberof good reasons for them to do that,
including hurricanes and just the fact thatthe Tan Peninsula is kind of a
narrow target for them to hit asthey come across, whereas when they're coming

(48:51):
north in the spring, they canhop from the Yucatan right across and hit
land wherever they go. But that'sbeen more of the tremendous values of having
just you know, average birders outthere in their backyards or out on trails
in the nearby park, or onvacation in places like southeastern Arizona reporting their
sightings to Eberts, so that wehave all of that information that we can

(49:15):
map and learn more about the travelsof birds, what habitats are important to
them at different times of year,and just better understand, and so we
have a better chance of making surethat they continue on to prosper in the
future. And I would imagine thata lot of that information that we are
finding out from things like eBird iscreating both opportunity and problems for your new

(49:42):
edition of the Field Guide. Ohhere, right about that? Holy motion,
Oh man. That that's something thatI spend an awful lot of time
looking at the photos that are submittedto Eberts. Of course, not not
every every fighting that's submitted to Eberthas to be accompanied by a photo,

(50:04):
but where folks have submitted photos toEbert, it's very very good information for
me because I can go in,For example, any bird that's difficult to
identify, I can go in andif a picture's been submitted, I can
look at that picture. Sometimes Ieven I can't tell, but sometimes I
can see that it's not what theythought it was, and I can contact

(50:25):
the folks who manage that database andthey can reassign that bird to a different
species. Give the bad news tothe person who reported that. Actually sometimes
it's good news. Actually in California, they had little birds that they thought
was a coast of something birds visitinga cemetery in a park near the coast,
and it turned out that little birdwas a ruby throted and they got

(50:45):
very excited about it, because anyruby throated in California is definitely cause for
celebration. Sure, wow, Sherry, can I visit Ash Canyon Bird Sanctuary?
Just take a moment to describe itlovely, We would love to have
you visit sometimes. Ash Canyon BirdSanctuary was the dream and the home of

(51:09):
our late friends married Joe Ballatore.Mary Joe was a passionate gardener. She
and her ex husband had landscaping businesstogether. She was, like me,
an enthusiast of Salvians. She andI bonded over our mutual love of Salvians,
but we also a loted over ourmutual love of birds as well.

(51:31):
In two thousand and two, sheopened her yards to the public. This
is a long standing tradition here inArizona. It's unusual for people to open
their yard to burgers to come andjust sit in their yard and watch their
birds, but a few very generousindividuals have done so, including Mary Joe,

(51:52):
and she unfortunately, she cared forher garden and posted thousands and thousands
of Burger from two thousand and twountil the spring of twenty nineteen when she
passed away very sob and of coursewe were all devastated, but unfortunately her
friends rallied in one of her dearestfriends, Tony Batiste, who runs a

(52:15):
little bed and breakfast nearby and anothercanyon nearby. He was determined not to
allow her property to just be soldoff and the welcome matt taken in and
the theaters taken down, but topreserve it, to keep her dream alive.
And thanks to Tony and his connections, we were able to get a

(52:37):
substantial donation from the Molina family inCalifornia that allowed us to purchase her property,
her six point one nine acres ofKenyon Habitat and her home and her
gardens and keep it open to thepublic, to the birding public. And
since that time we've had so muchsupport from the birding community and other nature

(53:01):
lovers, providing us with donations thathave helped us to add things that Mary
Joe would love to have had duringher tenures there. We have added rainwater
harvesting. We as much as possiblein this very dry climate. We irrigate
the gardens with rainwater through a driftsystem. We added a pond which is

(53:21):
now home to four different endangered species, one plant and three animals too fish
in a front. We have expandedthe feeding operation. We have replaced a
lot of the flowers of the plantsthat had died in Mary Joe's garden during
the time between her passing and thetime we were able to take over ownership
and management. That was quite ajob in itself, just removing a lot

(53:44):
of invasic plants that had taken overthe garden, and then you know,
I'm doing triage the plants that hadn'tsurvived, getting them out of the ground,
getting new plants in the ground,managing to go for population has been
quite a seat. Joe's took avery live and let live attitude towards the

(54:05):
wildlife in her garden, and whileshe did obviously take steps to manage the
damage that the wildlife did to herplants, her beautiful plants, she was
not the kind of person that wouldput out poisons and lethal traps and things
like that. So we have beentaking that same philosophy to heart and using

(54:27):
repellents and sensing wire baskets keep theovers to meet the reef systems things like
that. So it's been quite anadventure restoring her gardens, but we get
thousands of visitors every year from allover the world enjoying that same hospitality that
Mary Joe establishes as her tradition,carrying on her legacy and just trying to

(54:49):
expand her vision, trying to invitemore pollinators of cordiverse species to visit the
property. Planning more native plants veryvery important for supporting our native pollinators,
including the say, you know,butterflies and other insects. It's very important
to have their large food plants.So we're expanding within within Mary Joe's vision.
We're keeping her beautiful salvia garden andeven adding new varieties to her salvia

(55:12):
gardens, but also adding in moreflowering plants and more different species to attract
more different kinds of pollinators to thegardens. You know, Sherry, listening
to you talk from you know,the beginning of our conversation, it really
is amazing how much of a differenceindividuals can make. And you know,
whether it's the citizen science aspect oryou know, all of these volunteers coming

(55:36):
together to keep this you know,beautiful Sanctuary. It really is what you
said that hummingbirds are the gateway,the gateway drug to conservation and you know,
really to a better world. Andit's I think that your story has
has really made that vivid and clearfor our listeners. I couldn't agree more
with this stacy. And you know, the one of the things that that

(55:59):
we do try to emphasize passively andactively with our work at Ashton and Bird
Sanctuary is that pretty much anybody anywhere, with any outdoor space, even if
it's an apartment balcony, you cancontribute to wildlife conservation just by planting a
few plants, put a few potson your on your patio or your balcony.

(56:22):
If you have space to garden.Even if you're a more traditional gardener
who's gardening the more traditional vegetables orornamentals that you know most of us expect
to find in an average garden,you can tuck a few hummingbird friendly plants
in there. You can tuck youin a few food plants for the butterflies,
for both nectar and the larva.Anybody can help you. There's a

(56:45):
there's a new concept out there.I forget what they're calling it. But
basically it's it's like having a nationalpark all over the country that consists of
little pocket habitats, mean little backyard. Every little patio can have something that's
beneficial to wildlife, and each ofus can ensure that at least some wild

(57:09):
species in process. There's not muchthat you and I can do to help
blue whales or elephants, or mountaingorillas or tigers, but we can help
those wild species that visit our neighborhoodsin our backyard. Steph won, of
course, is to be an organicgardener, to be very very judicious about

(57:32):
the kind of pest control you use. Don't use drug spectrum pesticides, US
targeted focused remedies for things like aphidsand caterpillars and grubs and things like that.
There are all kinds of things thatyou can use that are not deadly
to other species, that are justgoing to take care of your one problem.

(57:53):
Or use barriers as much as youcan, like our Cophra pacis and
talents. I'm working on a proprietarygopher repellent uh uh uh is that which
is brew of all kinds of aromaticcaienne, pepper, castor oil like but

(58:15):
that's important. Thing is working withoutus having to kill any gophers, That's
what's important. Uh. And justmake sure that that you are are planning
to write things in the right waysto help bring in the beneficial wildlife while
minimizing your conflicts with wildlife. Salviasare one of those great plants for that,

(58:35):
because those aromatic compounds that make salviasuch wonderful plants, and culinarily,
you know, our culinary stage isas salvia. Uh, those kinds of
those kinds of of natural chemical defensesare actually pretty good for deterring things like
deer and squirrels. So keeping thosethings in mind and doing companion plantings of

(58:55):
some of those kind of spooky plantstritters don't like to eat, fear more
desirable plans that they do like toeat. That can be a great way
to diversify your garden, make itmore valuable to wildlife. And then am
I as your conflicts with wildlife aswell. Well. We love it and
we are going to put links toAsh Canyon and all of your other projects
on our website. Guardening Simplified onAir, so if anybody does happen to

(59:19):
be heading to southeastern Arizona, theycan come and see the good work that
you are doing there. We wantto thank you so very much for joining
us today. You shared so muchgreat information and I know I'm really inspired.
I can't wait to get home andu and watch for having me wonderful
to hear. I hope all yourreaders are inspired because together we can make
it different. Thank you both somuch for having me on. It's been

(59:40):
a delight. Thanks Sherry, Thankyou, Sherry, A pleasure. Well,
you know what, that's what gardeningsimplified is all about doing things that
are good for you and good forwildlife and doing it simply so that was
inspirational. It definitely was. Sothank you to Sherry, Thank you Rick,
and of course thanks to Adriana,and thank you so much to all
of you for listening. Hope you'reinspired to do something in your garden.

(01:00:01):
It's a little bit better for wildlife.