September 3, 2020 • 36 mins
Ali Wentworth’s eldest daughter drops in to give her take on social media and Gen Z, then Ali consults with child psychological researcher Dr. Yalda T. Uhls (author of “Media Moms & Digital Dads”) on how to approach parenting in the digital age. The two discuss validation, upward social comparison, and the impact social media is having on teens during the pandemic.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Go ask Ali, a production of Shonda Land
Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. Hi am Ally
Wentworth and you're listening to Go ask Ali. Where this
season I asked the question how to grow a teenager
in a pandemic. I'm particularly excited about today because I
(00:28):
am diving into social media and teenagers in the pandemic.
I think in this in this new normal, social media
is kind of devouring everybody's life. We're all scrolling and
looking and posting and liking. There's nothing else to do.
My guest today is dr yelled the rules before we
start chatting. I have gotten the biggest get, as they
(00:52):
call it in the entertainment world. It's not Beyonce. It's
my daughter, Elliott Stephanopolis. That's right, after many publicists and
agents and blackmailing, I finally got her on my show.
I'm talking about growing a teenager in a pandemic. And
(01:13):
you are a teenager in a pandemic, and you're my
teenager in a pandemic. So I'm your first teenager, You're
my first one. Yes. So Elliott, what are one of
the things that you hate about when people generalize your generation? Oh,
there's a lot of things I hate about the generalizations
people make about gen z Um. I really like the
(01:35):
reputation that we're rising up and being asked to this.
That's something I strongly believe in and relate to. I
feel like teenagers in general, and especially now, get no
credit for how hard we're working and being teenagers hard.
You're in school, you have a lot to worry about
your future, you have a lot to regret about your past,
(01:56):
you have a lot to think about in the present
um and you're you don't know who you are and
you're questioning that. So I wish people were less judgy
on teenagers, and I wish that more people remembered what
they were like as teenagers, but not put that on
other people, because people will think of their one experience
as a teenager and assume every teenager is like that.
(02:18):
You're absolutely right, which I don't think it's there. And
I also think, like you've said, oh, I'm worried about
social media, that my kids are gonna have empathy, they're
not going to know how to look people in the eye.
But that's not social media's fault. That's how you're raised
and what your manners are and what your social skills
are which varies for everyone. So I just think this
narrative that technology is ruining our children should be stopped.
(02:40):
I'm not saying at all that technology can be so
bad and social media can be so bad, but we
also have to think, isn't it so nice that there's
ways for people to find community and there's ways to
connect with people all over the world. Yeah, I think
you're right, But I think that that's that's because I
didn't grow up with that, so it's an unknown to me,
and usually unknowns in the world make us fearful, you
(03:03):
know what I mean. You're the first generation to grow
up with it, and so I don't know how to
parent social media. Yeah, thank you, Elliott. I love you.
You should be parenting me. You can say something back, Okay,
I mean that's that's it. I was just gonna say
(03:27):
that I was I've always been described as like the
mom's figure in my friend group. Everyone was like, Oh,
you're such a mom. You're such a mommy, So I
feel like I could raise you. Yeah, you probably could
probably do a good job. But now, on a more
serious topic, I'm asking somebody that's a scientist and a
researcher Dr Yella Uls thank God to come in and
(03:49):
help me unpack the pros and cons of social media
and how much screen time these kids should be on.
She is an award winning child psychologist, a leading expert
on how media affects children, and author of one of
my favorite books, Media Moms and Digital Dads. Welcome and
I need you. I'm so happy to be here. Um.
(04:13):
I mean, social media was a slippery slope before the pandemic,
but now I'm finding that in a pandemic a lot
of rules are off. Parents don't know how much, how little,
what to do. The digital revolution grabbed ahold of our
teams when it started, but now in the pandemic, I mean,
(04:35):
have we completely lost them to the digital age. No,
they're totally fine, and actually, frankly, the fact that they
have social media is actually a saving grace during this
time because it's so developmentally normal and this is one
of the few ways that they can safely socialize with
their friends. So without social media, ironically, our children would
(04:58):
be really suffering. Especi lee tweens, teens, and emerging adults
I mean actually teenage years now. By the way, the
National Academy of science says it goes all the way
up to age So teens to the age of twenty five. Really,
wait a second, teenagers go to twenty five? Now? Yeah, yeah,
as your teens get older, you will see their brains.
(05:20):
You can see the difference in their brains all the
way up to twenty five. Okay, So, so so I now
have teenagers till I'm till they're twenty five. I'm sorry, No,
that's okay, My med's for this. Um, So let's talk
about the teenage brain for a second, because I think
sort of the old school way of looking at childhood was,
(05:43):
you know, baby, toddler, preteens. But the brain itself, there
is medical reasons why teenagers react the way they do,
and all of it is about the prefuntal cortex, isn't
that what you would say? What's how it's developed? Ye?
And and with teenagers, I've certainly noticed with my girls
(06:05):
their risk seekers and they want reward. Now would you
say that that's kind of what propels them into their
behavior these two things? Yeah, I mean, and it's it's
again like it's our brain has adapted over thousands and
thousands of years in reaction to our environment. They need
to leave our houses, right and we don't understand having
(06:27):
already successfully done it when when we had to leave,
how scary that is. So for them to leave our houses,
they need to be like, oh, I'm so excited. I'm
ready for the risk and I'm ready for the rewards.
So it's actually making it easier for them to actually
become adults the way that their brain has developed. So
(06:49):
this risk and reward to us just seems crazy, but
to them it's what they need. So what happens in
a pandemic? If you're teen and I'm saying, if you
have a child up to twenty five, can't leave the
home right now? Is there no risk or reward? Well,
there's online risk and reward always is. And if your
(07:10):
child is someone who would normally have offline risk and
reward or risky behavior, um, you know, there is lots
of evidence that they will use the online world in
the same way. So you know, what do you mean,
like go to the dark web web they could hack,
you know, like that guy that just hacked all those
(07:30):
Twitter accounts. You know he had a problematic family life
and he used you know, the web and the tools there,
but his life I mean, he was like that in
real life, right, right, right. So let me ask you
a question. So if you had let's say a teenager
that was maybe prone to a lot of scary risk,
(07:52):
maybe it was drugs or partying or stealing whatever whatever
that looked like, do you think during the pandemic that
that was all channeled into a different way, meaning like
hacking and this underlying problems would need to be treated.
There are you know, addiction and online addiction. It's not
(08:12):
really fully the science isn't totally there, but there's good
indication that a certain percentage do get addicted to video
games or problematic internet behavior, um, social media. Girls, you
know girls, I'm sorry, it's gender use social media at
a higher rate. So we're going to get into that.
Believe me. We're gonna take a short break and we'll
(08:35):
be right back. Welcome back with more. Go ass Galley.
So you quote it in your book that people just
have this core desire to express who they are, Mark
Zuckelberg quote. And I think that's true. And I think
(08:57):
we just touched upon girls. And this is a fascinating
area for me because I have two girls, and I
spoke in an earlier podcast with Brookshields because she was
fascinating to me because she was so sexualized as a
young girl. You know, she played a prostitute at twelve
years old in the film and and so now she's
got teenage girls. And I said, well, how are you,
(09:19):
how are you coping with that? And how are you
setting rules for that? Because you know you were pretty baby,
you know you were in blue lagoon with your boobies
hanging out. Now, how can you possibly tell your teenage
daughters you can't do this? And it was an interesting discussion,
but I'm happy to have an expert on to kind
of discuss this because, um, I think it's true. And
(09:41):
you just said, and I'd love you to talk more
about the girls they have that need to belong, need
to be liked, seeing much more than boys. Oh yeah,
and we see the sexualized behavior online. It reflects offline again.
And you know, I teach a class to undergradum called
Digital Media and Human Development at u c l A.
(10:02):
And you know, I go through this whole there's this
heterosexual script which, um, it's in the real world, right,
girls look sexy, boys pursue for sex, girls saying no,
we see it online exactly the same. You know these
the girls still do this like hey and and sexting,
(10:25):
you know, they're they're the ones boys work out a
yes online to try to get a girl to sex them.
It's called digital dating abuse. And their behaviors both sides
like girls, Um, girls monitor boys and they stalk them,
and boys, you know, are pushy and there's there's abuse
(10:45):
there and sort of checking everyone online, and girls are sexualized,
you know. And I have a daughter, she's twenty years old,
and you know, she's still on social media quite a lot, posting,
still a teenager, recording to you, yes, exactly, and she's
very Are you aware of every single like and post
and comment and heart and the way she looks. I
(11:07):
don't know if your daughter's make you take like you know,
or they do it fifteen thousand pictures before they post one.
I was so upset years ago when I was noticing
my girls, you know, in middle school, and all of
a sudden, I was dealing with parenting things. Of course,
my mother, Muffie never taught me, but you know, we
(11:29):
didn't grow up with social media, so there were no
rules or parenting advice about it. But um, I remember
one of my daughters came back from middle school and
said that some girl in their class had sent a
nude photo to a bunch of boys in the class.
And my response was, that's child pornography. Those boys are
going to get arrested, and you know, And then I went, oh,
(11:51):
my god, there's this whole other world I don't know
anything about as a parent, and I got to figure
this out because this is the new normal, and I
don't want to get my girls in trouble. And then
one time, my older teenage daughter was on Skype or
something and this thing popped up and said, hey, do
you want to go on a date? Or something popped
(12:13):
up on her social media and it said, you know, hey,
I'm a sugar daddy. I'm gonna buy you lots of gifts,
you know, just crazy stuff. Because the old school way
of looking at fears out there was, you know, my
daughter would be walking down the street and someone say, hey,
I lost a dog, can you get in my car?
You know that abduction. But now I'm terrified that social
(12:33):
media is a trap for these young girls. So if
you sexualize yourself, these predators are going to come hungry. Yeah, yeah,
they'll find you. I mean they would find you offline,
but you know you just said it in the old
school way, they would have been able to actually grab you.
And the reality is somebody who meets someone online. So
(12:56):
it's like your your daughter saw that and probably went
you gross and told you about it, right, But if
it was a girl who was feeling needy and didn't
have a good family life, or was sexualized at a
young age or abuse, they might go and meet the person.
But it's such a small percentage. I mean in one year,
(13:17):
like six seven years ago, it's only like cases across
the United States that got to prosecution. It's really again
somebody who you can see it in their offline life
and then they use these tools and then they do
fall into the trap. But if you're not seeing it
in their offline life, there's very good chance they're not
(13:37):
gonna learn. And it's really important parenting of course, which
my book says social media, social media, make sure you're
there and you, as a good parent, have set it
all up with them and make sure that you know
the tools as well, so that they know when, um
they should respond and how to respond, etcetera. And so
should I be monitoring all their social media might be
(14:00):
on everything. Now I'm not. I'm not, but well, I
think you should sign up for their I think, especially
at the very beginning in the first transition. So for
my daughter, when she went on, she had posted a
photo and she was very innocent at that age, and
posted a photo of her hanging off of a pole
in our backyard in a little dress and it was
(14:22):
like a fireman's poll off of our fort. You could
only see the poll part right, So what does a
poll make you think of? He's a stripper? Yeah, So,
like I had to sort of very carefully talk to
her about things like that because she didn't have adult eyes.
So I think at the beginning that she made a
lot of mistakes. She's still making mistakes, but things because
(14:43):
I was there, because I was watching, I wouldn't comment
on the photos. You know that that will freak them
out and they'll get really upset. But one of her
friends posted about shoplifting, you know, publicly, and and you
know things like that, you just sort of talked to
them about what are you posting? What are you not posting?
And you know there are real consequences now for this
(15:05):
generation for college. Um, yes, I say that a lot
I mean I've really I've heard a lot of stories
like that, and uh even it happened in in my
girls school too. Same thing. It's it's they somehow think
that if it's on their Finsta or insta like, somehow
that's private enough that it's not going to get out.
(15:26):
But again with the with the selfies, in the attention
and this kind of attention on yourself. And believe me that,
when I see on other teenage girls social media, boys
saying like you'd be hotter if you had bigger boobs
or all that kind of stuff, I just like, oh
my god, it's so hard for them in general. But
but this leads to you know, even more body images
(15:50):
and food issues and plastic surgery. Talk about that a
little because that's another concern. Yeah. So, um, I mean
the sad thing is they get validated for those bikini shots.
So you know, if they post a shot that's just
their friends hanging out or a landscape shot, um, they
(16:13):
don't get as many likes, they don't get as many comments,
they get validated for it. So become it becomes this cycle.
You're going to post more and more to try to
get people to like you. Um, What they have found though,
is that posting selfies in and of itself isn't necessarily
related to any of these negative outcomes. Um you know,
(16:33):
and it's not necessarily related to lower self esteem or
body issues. But editing your selfies and sort of obsessively
thinking about your selfies and taking many those are related
to negative issues. So one cautionary um thing to talk
about possibly with young people is talking about editing and
(16:55):
why they're doing it, and why they're filtering and why
do they feel the need to look better. And I
just want to say, by editing, you mean like face
tune and all these apps that can make exactletely more
of your image. Yeah, exactly. So those they do find
that girls who um you know obsess over taking selfies
and then um face tune or or edit, they they filter,
(17:19):
they put filters on, etcetera. Those girls have more body
image issues. And we're also finding it with boys too,
and you may know with boys at a younger and
younger age, many of them. We have a little a kid,
my my my friends kid, he's seven. He's like, I'm
fat and he's I mean, it's so sad, or where's
(17:40):
my six pack? Like you know. I mean, the thing is,
these images are everywhere now, right. They used to be
in magazines and on TV, but now they're everywhere in
their lives seven. So they do impact kids in very
bad ways sometimes, and by the way that it impacts
me as a as an old lady, because there are
(18:00):
times when I've had a you know, a picture taken
to me, or I took a selfie and my daughters
go right on to face tune and they fix me,
and I go, don't fix me, don't fix me. I
don't want to. You know. I remember once we were
posing as a family on the beach and my daughter
fixed my body like literally, like all of a sudden,
had a way said, you know, my legs were longer,
(18:23):
And I said, don't do that to me, because I
am proud enough, I'm fine with who I am. I
don't want to project this image. But it made me
nervous that that was her, that that's what she wanted
to do, that was her automatic go to thing with
the picture. You know, well, the culture is telling her
that and her peers are, but I mean, ultimately, you're
(18:46):
the strongest person in her life, so you know, she
may be going through those teenage years where popularity and
all that peer influence is very important. But she's going
to come back to hopefully that strong self esteem that
you're role modeling. But the majority of people are fine, okay,
So we're okay there. Yeah, life is okay, it really is.
(19:06):
And and it's funny because you know, I don't know
if you've noticed this, but now that they have media seven,
they're sort of let loose. There are a lot of
kids that are like, I don't really want to be
on it today. I'm sick of it. You know. Can
we do a puzzle? Can we hang out? Um? So
so odd, We're not there yet. I can't wait. I
mean I really can't wait. I'm getting nervous because and
(19:29):
and let me let me just first ask you this.
With the consumerism that's so inherent in social media, my um,
teenage girls follow a lot of social influencers, I don't
know what I do if I had a daughter that
said I want to be a social influencer person, I
have to look it up. But then I have. But
(19:50):
I mean, everywhere there are micro influencers. I have twenty
undergrads in my lab. I'm pretty sure a few of
them are trying to be social influencers. Uh, and maybe
that's a legitimate adlication in the future, and I have
no reason to judge that, and you know, maybe that
is so. So I would say, you know what, do
(20:10):
what are you trying to sell? And if you're trying
to sell your body, that's a different thing than trying
to sell your comedy or trying to sell your political
point of view or trying to sell your your creativity. UM.
There is a study that I thought was very interesting,
UM that showed that UM girls who followed. So here's
something you can do and try it make your girls
(20:33):
follow like four other leadership type women women that are
you know, like if you know that are or or
influencers that are not doing it with their body, So
that these people start showing up in their feed and
they have reinforcement and are learning from other sort of
points of views really smart comedy or Michelle Obama or
(20:55):
whoever you know, pete role models and and apparently that
does start to get them thinking about different ways of being.
But if they're not, if they're only following these sort
of traditional stereotypical UM influencers that are you know, doing
the makeup tutorials and all of that. That's all they'll see.
(21:16):
So you got to get other things into their feet.
Say okay, it's okay that you do that, as long
as we talk about it and you sort of we
can look at a few together and try to understand
what's Here's what I see? What do you see when
you see that really sexy picture? Um? And then what
I want you to put? A few other people, follow
a few other people. So it's kind of the old
(21:38):
magazine model, because you know, when you get Marie Claire
some magazine, you know it's all gorgeous sexy women. But
then there'll be an article about like Syrian refugees, so
you feel like, okay, it's not all about how good
my thighs look. Um. But I think that's a great idea. Yeah.
I don't know if you've you know, social comparison I
talked about in my book and Upwards. Social comparison, which
(22:00):
is when you um look at someone who's ahead of
you on whatever markers you you know, it could be
they they're really successful in sports, or they're really gorgeous,
whatever you you care about, and it can inspire you
or can make you feel really bad and often it
can make because you're You're like, I'll never get there.
I can never do that. I'm too and and it
(22:21):
you know, I mean all of us are subject to that.
I'm subject to that all the time. And social media
puts it on steroids, right, you know, So if you
can make it, have people that are maybe sort of
at a level where they might be able to reach U.
Not about the prize winner, yeah exactly, I mean I
think of those two. But it's interesting during this pandemic
(22:44):
with Black Lives Matter that there was kind of a
shift I noticed with teenage girls especially, but they kind
of got off themselves for a little while and they
were becoming little activists. And I think that was also
because there is a mainstream sort of need and popularity
(23:04):
about doing that as well. But you know, we can't
count on movements to come around and sort of have
our teenagers. I know, I wish we could, though, I'm like,
why is it not continuing? I mean, I think it is,
and and honestly, I think this generation, which is amazing,
this generation um really does care more about social causes
(23:28):
and social issues, and because of the tools of the Internet,
more voices are out there. I mean, you know, we
do work with studios on representation, and you know, we've
seen that there's a lot of people talking about changing
representation and changing who the gatekeepers are and really changing
the executives and they have more voice. I used to
(23:50):
be a movie executive, and when I was a movie executive,
we would never talk about that, like nobody considered it
um And it's so prevalent now. And I think generation
that's very multicultural under a T is um minority majority minority,
so people of color. That's fantastic. And I mean, I
mean you can see it. I mean, I saw a
(24:13):
shift in the pandemic, but I can also see it
now on from talking to my kids and their friends
and what they're watching, that their need now is a
different thing. You know, they're dphoria. They want they want
deeper Americans. Yeah, which is a which is a great
thing to see. And it makes me think that maybe
(24:34):
this kind of narcissism when it comes to themselves and
social media will change too. It'll be less about the
visual and more about the voice, you know what I mean? Please,
I agree. And we even saw like we looked at
how many what the top shows were last year versus
the pandemic and it changed, it completely changed. And All American,
(24:57):
which is a show I love. UM was not a
top show last year, but it became a top show
in the pandemic because people were trying to learn. And
it's a great show. I mean, it's it's a teen
show and it deals with all the teen issues. Um.
You think I'd be selling it or something, but I
(25:17):
mean I think that. You know, I'm sort of worried
about the negative, but there are a lot of positive
things right now about social media in the pandemic. Now,
a quick word from our sponsors. Welcome back to go
(25:38):
ask Gali. Let's get back to the discussion. One of
the things that I saw with my own kids, which
was so amazing was there was no fomo. My girls
had no phone. Everybody was in the same boat. They
weren't missing a sleepover or a party or anything, and
they were so relaxed. I didn't realized how much that
(26:02):
consumed our social lives. Yeah, fomo is a bad one.
And you know again, it's it's social comparison too. That's
the same thing. Oh, I should be out, I should
be doing that, I should be with those people. But
when you don't see that, oh everyone's at home or
we're only talking one to one or in a little group,
(26:23):
then you don't you feel better? So yeah, no, foma.
But also, we actually teach talent at Disney. We teach actors,
and we teach them life skills. And we did our
first class with them, and I thought they were going
to be really upset because they weren't working, and the
parents were going to be upset. They were so relaxed
(26:44):
and so happy that they didn't have to go seven.
They were actually enjoying the family time. So yeah, there's
a lot of great things. But I mean, you've you've
seen it to all lots of people are like, you know,
let's not lose everything when we go back. Yes, yes,
I saw. I mean even George, my husband, and I
and our kids. Now that things I've opened up a
(27:06):
little bit in New York, you guys. I know it's
horrible in California, but things have opened up a little
bit in New York, and we're having all kinds of
anxiety about, oh God, do I really want to go
back out there. I mean, and my teenage girls too,
Like I didn't even want to go to all these
parties all the time or I didn't want to, you know,
so we're that is posing a big challenge. But the
(27:28):
other positive thing was certainly when we were quarantined, there
was a lot of uncertainty and fear as there still
is about what the world is and what it looks like,
and it's scary. And I think that a lot of
kids got to go on social media and just watch
stupid YouTube, you know, TikTok. TikTok, Yeah, TikTok. In fact,
(27:52):
every time at dinner we would talk about the pandemic
or something political, my younger daughter would go into this
weird TikTok trance where she would just like her arms
would start moving and her head and we go, oh
my god, we've lost her and she's in TikTok world.
But that was her safety place, it really was. That's
where she would go to not think about, you know,
(28:15):
the end of the world was. You know, we're all
feeling yeah. And you know, the thing about TikTok, which
I think is different, definitely different than Instagram, is people
are willing to sort of you know, look silly and
do silly things. And those are a lot of things
that trend. You know, there's a lot less sort of
positioning of themselves and and it is pure entertainment, and
(28:36):
you know, people can rise to the top just sort
of just being who they are. It feels a little
more authentic. I did notice I had a few friends
my age and I would look on social media and
I would see that they were doing a TikTok with
their kids, you know, and I go, what youre doing?
She goes, it's a pandemic. I'm losing my mind, you know.
(28:57):
But I think it was another thing that families were
We're sharing totally. There are so many people doing dances.
I mean, my daughter posted several of us. She was like,
it's a thing, mom, it's trending. Yeah, but it did
get them. You know, they're so insular with their social
media that TikTok did sort of open it up a
little bit. And they're humiliated by their parents, you know,
(29:20):
doing something with them. Are they able now to or
have you seen studies where they're able to take social
cues from being online? Yes? Yeah, they're learning social cues
from this stuff. I mean, I just did research. I
released a study earlier this year where we found that
(29:40):
kids today six grade kids today versus from two thousand
seventeen versus two thousand and twelve. They can read nonverbal
emotional cues and photographs expressions of people in photographs better
than kids before. So, which what that tells you is
that they're learning from this stuff. Their look at the
stuff and they're learning. We're not seeing it. I mean,
(30:02):
I don't know study about video, but you know we've
seen we've done studies around television. You do learn, and
there are certain ages where they can learn it more.
Um you know, so there's very young children, it's very
hard for them to learn from video, but as they
get older, they do. They're they're learning. So that's the
good news. It's kind of scary sometimes because as I
(30:23):
said in my book at the end, I don't want
us to turn into Wally. We're all inside eating and
only on virtual devices. But the good news is during
this pandemic, it's helping our teens um and tweens meet
their developmental needs. And what about empathy. Empathy, you know,
(30:43):
it is best learned face to face and in real
life where you can because there are a lot of
social cues you can't get from even video. Like we're
doing a study right now, we're actually looking to see
if you can learn emotional learning more on video, because
everybody's on video now, so we think the pandemic might
have changed it, um, you know, but the reality is,
(31:08):
you know, there's so much more you can learn because
we from an entire situation, you know, and even like,
I'm not really looking you in the eyes right now,
and you're not really looking me in the eyes. And
it's weird to be looking at myself on camera. There's
all these weird things that I hope they're not online
shopping while we're talking. Yeah, exactly, look at that. I
(31:30):
got commat so so yelled. Can you give me a
few things as a parent that I should be looking
for when it comes to my teens and social media
right now in the pandemic. What are a few things
that are worrisome? Well, lack of sleep. They could be
on those TikTok's and social media all night long. Try
to get the phone out of them. Yeah, I think
(31:55):
if you really see that there's an issue. Sleep has
the you know, one of the strongest connections to mental
health issues, UM and anxiety and emotional regulation and all
sorts of stuff. So and media in the bedroom definitely
impacts sleep also to that they're just they're not using
it to socialize, they're not using it to communicate. There's
(32:18):
a theory called rich get Richer that extroverts use social
media to connect and have fun. And you know they're
they're using it in positive ways because it's just another
communication tool, but there are plenty of people that may
be using it just to space out. They get more
and more obsessed about scrolling, scrolling looking at the photos.
(32:40):
You know, it's not healthy, and you that doesn't mean
necessarily you take the phone away, because, um, it can
be something they feel very strongly about that does connect
them friends, but you really should talk to them about
it and maybe get treatment, you know, maybe have them talk.
It's very easy now, it's much easier to do online
therapy now, so you know things like that that, um,
(33:04):
you know, if you see issues where they're they're just
separating and using this tool to isolate versus communicate. Okay,
and my last question to you, are you giving us
parents permission to be a little bit lax right now
that we're in a pandemic with social media totally and
(33:26):
mostly most importantly, I mean, we you just have to
understand that they need to be with friends, and as
painful as that is sometimes you know, in the old
pre pandemic life when they were on their phones all
the time or rejecting you because they want to go out,
that is what they need to do to grow up
safely and healthy. Because kids under eighteen, if they go
(33:49):
into solitary confinement, actually impacts their brain development. And that
is because they need to be around people in a
way that adults don't. So we are you know, by
having need you, they're allowed to connect and they they're
using it to create too. Even if it's not you know,
even if it's a TikTok, it's still fun and something
that they're doing. I am totally giving. Mainstream media is
(34:13):
not interested in, like you know, letting parents off the hook.
They always want to write about the negative effects, but
the reality is there's so much research out there that says,
you know, I don't know if you know about the
study where they looked at mental health and um and
teens and social media and they found that there's a
teeny negative effect for people who use social media way
(34:35):
too much. But it's the same negative effect as eating
a potato. Is that a negative effect eating exactly eating
a potato has the same effect on your mental health
as being on social media. Oh my god, that's so
much better than I assumed. Yes, it's so much better
(34:56):
than you assume. It really is that the word doesn't
get out there. So thank you for giving me this
opportunity to thank you for being so optimistic. You know,
I was just like social media was just a way
into sex trafficking to me. But now I'm like, Okay,
it's okay, it's actually positively making me activists. Okay, thank
you so much. Um, Dr Yelled the rules, and thank
(35:19):
you for being with me. And I now that I
have your email, UM, I feel bad for you because
I'm going to questions so they're Jesus. Okay, thank god
for you. I could talk to Dr Yelled at Wolves
all day about so many different things, but that's the
(35:40):
end of our time. I would love to get up
right now, but I have an obese stocks and on
my lap and I'm afraid if I wake her up,
she'll bite me. Don't forget to subscribe and follow me
on my social media on Twitter, Ali e Wentworth and
Instagram the real Ali Wentworth. Okay, crowmo queen, go ask
(36:01):
Gali is a production of Shondaland Audio and partnership with
I heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Go ask Ali, a production of Shonda Land
Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. Hi am Ally
Wentworth and you're listening to Go ask Ali. Where this
season I asked the question how to grow a teenager
in a pandemic. I'm particularly excited about today because I
(00:28):
am diving into social media and teenagers in the pandemic.
I think in this in this new normal, social media
is kind of devouring everybody's life. We're all scrolling and
looking and posting and liking. There's nothing else to do.
My guest today is dr yelled the rules before we
start chatting. I have gotten the biggest get, as they
(00:52):
call it in the entertainment world. It's not Beyonce. It's
my daughter, Elliott Stephanopolis. That's right, after many publicists and
agents and blackmailing, I finally got her on my show.
I'm talking about growing a teenager in a pandemic. And
(01:13):
you are a teenager in a pandemic, and you're my
teenager in a pandemic. So I'm your first teenager, You're
my first one. Yes. So Elliott, what are one of
the things that you hate about when people generalize your generation? Oh,
there's a lot of things I hate about the generalizations
people make about gen z Um. I really like the
(01:35):
reputation that we're rising up and being asked to this.
That's something I strongly believe in and relate to. I
feel like teenagers in general, and especially now, get no
credit for how hard we're working and being teenagers hard.
You're in school, you have a lot to worry about
your future, you have a lot to regret about your past,
(01:56):
you have a lot to think about in the present
um and you're you don't know who you are and
you're questioning that. So I wish people were less judgy
on teenagers, and I wish that more people remembered what
they were like as teenagers, but not put that on
other people, because people will think of their one experience
as a teenager and assume every teenager is like that.
(02:18):
You're absolutely right, which I don't think it's there. And
I also think, like you've said, oh, I'm worried about
social media, that my kids are gonna have empathy, they're
not going to know how to look people in the eye.
But that's not social media's fault. That's how you're raised
and what your manners are and what your social skills
are which varies for everyone. So I just think this
narrative that technology is ruining our children should be stopped.
(02:40):
I'm not saying at all that technology can be so
bad and social media can be so bad, but we
also have to think, isn't it so nice that there's
ways for people to find community and there's ways to
connect with people all over the world. Yeah, I think
you're right, But I think that that's that's because I
didn't grow up with that, so it's an unknown to me,
and usually unknowns in the world make us fearful, you
(03:03):
know what I mean. You're the first generation to grow
up with it, and so I don't know how to
parent social media. Yeah, thank you, Elliott. I love you.
You should be parenting me. You can say something back, Okay,
I mean that's that's it. I was just gonna say
(03:27):
that I was I've always been described as like the
mom's figure in my friend group. Everyone was like, Oh,
you're such a mom. You're such a mommy, So I
feel like I could raise you. Yeah, you probably could
probably do a good job. But now, on a more
serious topic, I'm asking somebody that's a scientist and a
researcher Dr Yella Uls thank God to come in and
(03:49):
help me unpack the pros and cons of social media
and how much screen time these kids should be on.
She is an award winning child psychologist, a leading expert
on how media affects children, and author of one of
my favorite books, Media Moms and Digital Dads. Welcome and
I need you. I'm so happy to be here. Um.
(04:13):
I mean, social media was a slippery slope before the pandemic,
but now I'm finding that in a pandemic a lot
of rules are off. Parents don't know how much, how little,
what to do. The digital revolution grabbed ahold of our
teams when it started, but now in the pandemic, I mean,
(04:35):
have we completely lost them to the digital age. No,
they're totally fine, and actually, frankly, the fact that they
have social media is actually a saving grace during this
time because it's so developmentally normal and this is one
of the few ways that they can safely socialize with
their friends. So without social media, ironically, our children would
(04:58):
be really suffering. Especi lee tweens, teens, and emerging adults
I mean actually teenage years now. By the way, the
National Academy of science says it goes all the way
up to age So teens to the age of twenty five. Really,
wait a second, teenagers go to twenty five? Now? Yeah, yeah,
as your teens get older, you will see their brains.
(05:20):
You can see the difference in their brains all the
way up to twenty five. Okay, So, so so I now
have teenagers till I'm till they're twenty five. I'm sorry, No,
that's okay, My med's for this. Um, So let's talk
about the teenage brain for a second, because I think
sort of the old school way of looking at childhood was,
(05:43):
you know, baby, toddler, preteens. But the brain itself, there
is medical reasons why teenagers react the way they do,
and all of it is about the prefuntal cortex, isn't
that what you would say? What's how it's developed? Ye?
And and with teenagers, I've certainly noticed with my girls
(06:05):
their risk seekers and they want reward. Now would you
say that that's kind of what propels them into their
behavior these two things? Yeah, I mean, and it's it's
again like it's our brain has adapted over thousands and
thousands of years in reaction to our environment. They need
to leave our houses, right and we don't understand having
(06:27):
already successfully done it when when we had to leave,
how scary that is. So for them to leave our houses,
they need to be like, oh, I'm so excited. I'm
ready for the risk and I'm ready for the rewards.
So it's actually making it easier for them to actually
become adults the way that their brain has developed. So
(06:49):
this risk and reward to us just seems crazy, but
to them it's what they need. So what happens in
a pandemic? If you're teen and I'm saying, if you
have a child up to twenty five, can't leave the
home right now? Is there no risk or reward? Well,
there's online risk and reward always is. And if your
(07:10):
child is someone who would normally have offline risk and
reward or risky behavior, um, you know, there is lots
of evidence that they will use the online world in
the same way. So you know, what do you mean,
like go to the dark web web they could hack,
you know, like that guy that just hacked all those
(07:30):
Twitter accounts. You know he had a problematic family life
and he used you know, the web and the tools there,
but his life I mean, he was like that in
real life, right, right, right. So let me ask you
a question. So if you had let's say a teenager
that was maybe prone to a lot of scary risk,
(07:52):
maybe it was drugs or partying or stealing whatever whatever
that looked like, do you think during the pandemic that
that was all channeled into a different way, meaning like
hacking and this underlying problems would need to be treated.
There are you know, addiction and online addiction. It's not
(08:12):
really fully the science isn't totally there, but there's good
indication that a certain percentage do get addicted to video
games or problematic internet behavior, um, social media. Girls, you
know girls, I'm sorry, it's gender use social media at
a higher rate. So we're going to get into that.
Believe me. We're gonna take a short break and we'll
(08:35):
be right back. Welcome back with more. Go ass Galley.
So you quote it in your book that people just
have this core desire to express who they are, Mark
Zuckelberg quote. And I think that's true. And I think
(08:57):
we just touched upon girls. And this is a fascinating
area for me because I have two girls, and I
spoke in an earlier podcast with Brookshields because she was
fascinating to me because she was so sexualized as a
young girl. You know, she played a prostitute at twelve
years old in the film and and so now she's
got teenage girls. And I said, well, how are you,
(09:19):
how are you coping with that? And how are you
setting rules for that? Because you know you were pretty baby,
you know you were in blue lagoon with your boobies
hanging out. Now, how can you possibly tell your teenage
daughters you can't do this? And it was an interesting discussion,
but I'm happy to have an expert on to kind
of discuss this because, um, I think it's true. And
(09:41):
you just said, and I'd love you to talk more
about the girls they have that need to belong, need
to be liked, seeing much more than boys. Oh yeah,
and we see the sexualized behavior online. It reflects offline again.
And you know, I teach a class to undergradum called
Digital Media and Human Development at u c l A.
(10:02):
And you know, I go through this whole there's this
heterosexual script which, um, it's in the real world, right,
girls look sexy, boys pursue for sex, girls saying no,
we see it online exactly the same. You know these
the girls still do this like hey and and sexting,
(10:25):
you know, they're they're the ones boys work out a
yes online to try to get a girl to sex them.
It's called digital dating abuse. And their behaviors both sides
like girls, Um, girls monitor boys and they stalk them,
and boys, you know, are pushy and there's there's abuse
(10:45):
there and sort of checking everyone online, and girls are sexualized,
you know. And I have a daughter, she's twenty years old,
and you know, she's still on social media quite a lot, posting,
still a teenager, recording to you, yes, exactly, and she's
very Are you aware of every single like and post
and comment and heart and the way she looks. I
(11:07):
don't know if your daughter's make you take like you know,
or they do it fifteen thousand pictures before they post one.
I was so upset years ago when I was noticing
my girls, you know, in middle school, and all of
a sudden, I was dealing with parenting things. Of course,
my mother, Muffie never taught me, but you know, we
(11:29):
didn't grow up with social media, so there were no
rules or parenting advice about it. But um, I remember
one of my daughters came back from middle school and
said that some girl in their class had sent a
nude photo to a bunch of boys in the class.
And my response was, that's child pornography. Those boys are
going to get arrested, and you know, And then I went, oh,
(11:51):
my god, there's this whole other world I don't know
anything about as a parent, and I got to figure
this out because this is the new normal, and I
don't want to get my girls in trouble. And then
one time, my older teenage daughter was on Skype or
something and this thing popped up and said, hey, do
you want to go on a date? Or something popped
(12:13):
up on her social media and it said, you know, hey,
I'm a sugar daddy. I'm gonna buy you lots of gifts,
you know, just crazy stuff. Because the old school way
of looking at fears out there was, you know, my
daughter would be walking down the street and someone say, hey,
I lost a dog, can you get in my car?
You know that abduction. But now I'm terrified that social
(12:33):
media is a trap for these young girls. So if
you sexualize yourself, these predators are going to come hungry. Yeah, yeah,
they'll find you. I mean they would find you offline,
but you know you just said it in the old
school way, they would have been able to actually grab you.
And the reality is somebody who meets someone online. So
(12:56):
it's like your your daughter saw that and probably went
you gross and told you about it, right, But if
it was a girl who was feeling needy and didn't
have a good family life, or was sexualized at a
young age or abuse, they might go and meet the person.
But it's such a small percentage. I mean in one year,
(13:17):
like six seven years ago, it's only like cases across
the United States that got to prosecution. It's really again
somebody who you can see it in their offline life
and then they use these tools and then they do
fall into the trap. But if you're not seeing it
in their offline life, there's very good chance they're not
(13:37):
gonna learn. And it's really important parenting of course, which
my book says social media, social media, make sure you're
there and you, as a good parent, have set it
all up with them and make sure that you know
the tools as well, so that they know when, um
they should respond and how to respond, etcetera. And so
should I be monitoring all their social media might be
(14:00):
on everything. Now I'm not. I'm not, but well, I
think you should sign up for their I think, especially
at the very beginning in the first transition. So for
my daughter, when she went on, she had posted a
photo and she was very innocent at that age, and
posted a photo of her hanging off of a pole
in our backyard in a little dress and it was
(14:22):
like a fireman's poll off of our fort. You could
only see the poll part right, So what does a
poll make you think of? He's a stripper? Yeah, So,
like I had to sort of very carefully talk to
her about things like that because she didn't have adult eyes.
So I think at the beginning that she made a
lot of mistakes. She's still making mistakes, but things because
(14:43):
I was there, because I was watching, I wouldn't comment
on the photos. You know that that will freak them
out and they'll get really upset. But one of her
friends posted about shoplifting, you know, publicly, and and you
know things like that, you just sort of talked to
them about what are you posting? What are you not posting?
And you know there are real consequences now for this
(15:05):
generation for college. Um, yes, I say that a lot
I mean I've really I've heard a lot of stories
like that, and uh even it happened in in my
girls school too. Same thing. It's it's they somehow think
that if it's on their Finsta or insta like, somehow
that's private enough that it's not going to get out.
(15:26):
But again with the with the selfies, in the attention
and this kind of attention on yourself. And believe me that,
when I see on other teenage girls social media, boys
saying like you'd be hotter if you had bigger boobs
or all that kind of stuff, I just like, oh
my god, it's so hard for them in general. But
but this leads to you know, even more body images
(15:50):
and food issues and plastic surgery. Talk about that a
little because that's another concern. Yeah. So, um, I mean
the sad thing is they get validated for those bikini shots.
So you know, if they post a shot that's just
their friends hanging out or a landscape shot, um, they
(16:13):
don't get as many likes, they don't get as many comments,
they get validated for it. So become it becomes this cycle.
You're going to post more and more to try to
get people to like you. Um, What they have found though,
is that posting selfies in and of itself isn't necessarily
related to any of these negative outcomes. Um you know,
(16:33):
and it's not necessarily related to lower self esteem or
body issues. But editing your selfies and sort of obsessively
thinking about your selfies and taking many those are related
to negative issues. So one cautionary um thing to talk
about possibly with young people is talking about editing and
(16:55):
why they're doing it, and why they're filtering and why
do they feel the need to look better. And I
just want to say, by editing, you mean like face
tune and all these apps that can make exactletely more
of your image. Yeah, exactly. So those they do find
that girls who um you know obsess over taking selfies
and then um face tune or or edit, they they filter,
(17:19):
they put filters on, etcetera. Those girls have more body
image issues. And we're also finding it with boys too,
and you may know with boys at a younger and
younger age, many of them. We have a little a kid,
my my my friends kid, he's seven. He's like, I'm
fat and he's I mean, it's so sad, or where's
(17:40):
my six pack? Like you know. I mean, the thing is,
these images are everywhere now, right. They used to be
in magazines and on TV, but now they're everywhere in
their lives seven. So they do impact kids in very
bad ways sometimes, and by the way that it impacts
me as a as an old lady, because there are
(18:00):
times when I've had a you know, a picture taken
to me, or I took a selfie and my daughters
go right on to face tune and they fix me,
and I go, don't fix me, don't fix me. I
don't want to. You know. I remember once we were
posing as a family on the beach and my daughter
fixed my body like literally, like all of a sudden,
had a way said, you know, my legs were longer,
(18:23):
And I said, don't do that to me, because I
am proud enough, I'm fine with who I am. I
don't want to project this image. But it made me
nervous that that was her, that that's what she wanted
to do, that was her automatic go to thing with
the picture. You know, well, the culture is telling her
that and her peers are, but I mean, ultimately, you're
(18:46):
the strongest person in her life, so you know, she
may be going through those teenage years where popularity and
all that peer influence is very important. But she's going
to come back to hopefully that strong self esteem that
you're role modeling. But the majority of people are fine, okay,
So we're okay there. Yeah, life is okay, it really is.
(19:06):
And and it's funny because you know, I don't know
if you've noticed this, but now that they have media seven,
they're sort of let loose. There are a lot of
kids that are like, I don't really want to be
on it today. I'm sick of it. You know. Can
we do a puzzle? Can we hang out? Um? So
so odd, We're not there yet. I can't wait. I
mean I really can't wait. I'm getting nervous because and
(19:29):
and let me let me just first ask you this.
With the consumerism that's so inherent in social media, my um,
teenage girls follow a lot of social influencers, I don't
know what I do if I had a daughter that
said I want to be a social influencer person, I
have to look it up. But then I have. But
(19:50):
I mean, everywhere there are micro influencers. I have twenty
undergrads in my lab. I'm pretty sure a few of
them are trying to be social influencers. Uh, and maybe
that's a legitimate adlication in the future, and I have
no reason to judge that, and you know, maybe that
is so. So I would say, you know what, do
(20:10):
what are you trying to sell? And if you're trying
to sell your body, that's a different thing than trying
to sell your comedy or trying to sell your political
point of view or trying to sell your your creativity. UM.
There is a study that I thought was very interesting,
UM that showed that UM girls who followed. So here's
something you can do and try it make your girls
(20:33):
follow like four other leadership type women women that are
you know, like if you know that are or or
influencers that are not doing it with their body, So
that these people start showing up in their feed and
they have reinforcement and are learning from other sort of
points of views really smart comedy or Michelle Obama or
(20:55):
whoever you know, pete role models and and apparently that
does start to get them thinking about different ways of being.
But if they're not, if they're only following these sort
of traditional stereotypical UM influencers that are you know, doing
the makeup tutorials and all of that. That's all they'll see.
(21:16):
So you got to get other things into their feet.
Say okay, it's okay that you do that, as long
as we talk about it and you sort of we
can look at a few together and try to understand
what's Here's what I see? What do you see when
you see that really sexy picture? Um? And then what
I want you to put? A few other people, follow
a few other people. So it's kind of the old
(21:38):
magazine model, because you know, when you get Marie Claire
some magazine, you know it's all gorgeous sexy women. But
then there'll be an article about like Syrian refugees, so
you feel like, okay, it's not all about how good
my thighs look. Um. But I think that's a great idea. Yeah.
I don't know if you've you know, social comparison I
talked about in my book and Upwards. Social comparison, which
(22:00):
is when you um look at someone who's ahead of
you on whatever markers you you know, it could be
they they're really successful in sports, or they're really gorgeous,
whatever you you care about, and it can inspire you
or can make you feel really bad and often it
can make because you're You're like, I'll never get there.
I can never do that. I'm too and and it
(22:21):
you know, I mean all of us are subject to that.
I'm subject to that all the time. And social media
puts it on steroids, right, you know, So if you
can make it, have people that are maybe sort of
at a level where they might be able to reach U.
Not about the prize winner, yeah exactly, I mean I
think of those two. But it's interesting during this pandemic
(22:44):
with Black Lives Matter that there was kind of a
shift I noticed with teenage girls especially, but they kind
of got off themselves for a little while and they
were becoming little activists. And I think that was also
because there is a mainstream sort of need and popularity
(23:04):
about doing that as well. But you know, we can't
count on movements to come around and sort of have
our teenagers. I know, I wish we could, though, I'm like,
why is it not continuing? I mean, I think it is,
and and honestly, I think this generation, which is amazing,
this generation um really does care more about social causes
(23:28):
and social issues, and because of the tools of the Internet,
more voices are out there. I mean, you know, we
do work with studios on representation, and you know, we've
seen that there's a lot of people talking about changing
representation and changing who the gatekeepers are and really changing
the executives and they have more voice. I used to
(23:50):
be a movie executive, and when I was a movie executive,
we would never talk about that, like nobody considered it
um And it's so prevalent now. And I think generation
that's very multicultural under a T is um minority majority minority,
so people of color. That's fantastic. And I mean, I
mean you can see it. I mean, I saw a
(24:13):
shift in the pandemic, but I can also see it
now on from talking to my kids and their friends
and what they're watching, that their need now is a
different thing. You know, they're dphoria. They want they want
deeper Americans. Yeah, which is a which is a great
thing to see. And it makes me think that maybe
(24:34):
this kind of narcissism when it comes to themselves and
social media will change too. It'll be less about the
visual and more about the voice, you know what I mean? Please,
I agree. And we even saw like we looked at
how many what the top shows were last year versus
the pandemic and it changed, it completely changed. And All American,
(24:57):
which is a show I love. UM was not a
top show last year, but it became a top show
in the pandemic because people were trying to learn. And
it's a great show. I mean, it's it's a teen
show and it deals with all the teen issues. Um.
You think I'd be selling it or something, but I
(25:17):
mean I think that. You know, I'm sort of worried
about the negative, but there are a lot of positive
things right now about social media in the pandemic. Now,
a quick word from our sponsors. Welcome back to go
(25:38):
ask Gali. Let's get back to the discussion. One of
the things that I saw with my own kids, which
was so amazing was there was no fomo. My girls
had no phone. Everybody was in the same boat. They
weren't missing a sleepover or a party or anything, and
they were so relaxed. I didn't realized how much that
(26:02):
consumed our social lives. Yeah, fomo is a bad one.
And you know again, it's it's social comparison too. That's
the same thing. Oh, I should be out, I should
be doing that, I should be with those people. But
when you don't see that, oh everyone's at home or
we're only talking one to one or in a little group,
(26:23):
then you don't you feel better? So yeah, no, foma.
But also, we actually teach talent at Disney. We teach actors,
and we teach them life skills. And we did our
first class with them, and I thought they were going
to be really upset because they weren't working, and the
parents were going to be upset. They were so relaxed
(26:44):
and so happy that they didn't have to go seven.
They were actually enjoying the family time. So yeah, there's
a lot of great things. But I mean, you've you've
seen it to all lots of people are like, you know,
let's not lose everything when we go back. Yes, yes,
I saw. I mean even George, my husband, and I
and our kids. Now that things I've opened up a
(27:06):
little bit in New York, you guys. I know it's
horrible in California, but things have opened up a little
bit in New York, and we're having all kinds of
anxiety about, oh God, do I really want to go
back out there. I mean, and my teenage girls too,
Like I didn't even want to go to all these
parties all the time or I didn't want to, you know,
so we're that is posing a big challenge. But the
(27:28):
other positive thing was certainly when we were quarantined, there
was a lot of uncertainty and fear as there still
is about what the world is and what it looks like,
and it's scary. And I think that a lot of
kids got to go on social media and just watch
stupid YouTube, you know, TikTok. TikTok, Yeah, TikTok. In fact,
(27:52):
every time at dinner we would talk about the pandemic
or something political, my younger daughter would go into this
weird TikTok trance where she would just like her arms
would start moving and her head and we go, oh
my god, we've lost her and she's in TikTok world.
But that was her safety place, it really was. That's
where she would go to not think about, you know,
(28:15):
the end of the world was. You know, we're all
feeling yeah. And you know, the thing about TikTok, which
I think is different, definitely different than Instagram, is people
are willing to sort of you know, look silly and
do silly things. And those are a lot of things
that trend. You know, there's a lot less sort of
positioning of themselves and and it is pure entertainment, and
(28:36):
you know, people can rise to the top just sort
of just being who they are. It feels a little
more authentic. I did notice I had a few friends
my age and I would look on social media and
I would see that they were doing a TikTok with
their kids, you know, and I go, what youre doing?
She goes, it's a pandemic. I'm losing my mind, you know.
(28:57):
But I think it was another thing that families were
We're sharing totally. There are so many people doing dances.
I mean, my daughter posted several of us. She was like,
it's a thing, mom, it's trending. Yeah, but it did
get them. You know, they're so insular with their social
media that TikTok did sort of open it up a
little bit. And they're humiliated by their parents, you know,
(29:20):
doing something with them. Are they able now to or
have you seen studies where they're able to take social
cues from being online? Yes? Yeah, they're learning social cues
from this stuff. I mean, I just did research. I
released a study earlier this year where we found that
(29:40):
kids today six grade kids today versus from two thousand
seventeen versus two thousand and twelve. They can read nonverbal
emotional cues and photographs expressions of people in photographs better
than kids before. So, which what that tells you is
that they're learning from this stuff. Their look at the
stuff and they're learning. We're not seeing it. I mean,
(30:02):
I don't know study about video, but you know we've
seen we've done studies around television. You do learn, and
there are certain ages where they can learn it more.
Um you know, so there's very young children, it's very
hard for them to learn from video, but as they
get older, they do. They're they're learning. So that's the
good news. It's kind of scary sometimes because as I
(30:23):
said in my book at the end, I don't want
us to turn into Wally. We're all inside eating and
only on virtual devices. But the good news is during
this pandemic, it's helping our teens um and tweens meet
their developmental needs. And what about empathy. Empathy, you know,
(30:43):
it is best learned face to face and in real
life where you can because there are a lot of
social cues you can't get from even video. Like we're
doing a study right now, we're actually looking to see
if you can learn emotional learning more on video, because
everybody's on video now, so we think the pandemic might
have changed it, um, you know, but the reality is,
(31:08):
you know, there's so much more you can learn because
we from an entire situation, you know, and even like,
I'm not really looking you in the eyes right now,
and you're not really looking me in the eyes. And
it's weird to be looking at myself on camera. There's
all these weird things that I hope they're not online
shopping while we're talking. Yeah, exactly, look at that. I
(31:30):
got commat so so yelled. Can you give me a
few things as a parent that I should be looking
for when it comes to my teens and social media
right now in the pandemic. What are a few things
that are worrisome? Well, lack of sleep. They could be
on those TikTok's and social media all night long. Try
to get the phone out of them. Yeah, I think
(31:55):
if you really see that there's an issue. Sleep has
the you know, one of the strongest connections to mental
health issues, UM and anxiety and emotional regulation and all
sorts of stuff. So and media in the bedroom definitely
impacts sleep also to that they're just they're not using
it to socialize, they're not using it to communicate. There's
(32:18):
a theory called rich get Richer that extroverts use social
media to connect and have fun. And you know they're
they're using it in positive ways because it's just another
communication tool, but there are plenty of people that may
be using it just to space out. They get more
and more obsessed about scrolling, scrolling looking at the photos.
(32:40):
You know, it's not healthy, and you that doesn't mean
necessarily you take the phone away, because, um, it can
be something they feel very strongly about that does connect
them friends, but you really should talk to them about
it and maybe get treatment, you know, maybe have them talk.
It's very easy now, it's much easier to do online
therapy now, so you know things like that that, um,
(33:04):
you know, if you see issues where they're they're just
separating and using this tool to isolate versus communicate. Okay,
and my last question to you, are you giving us
parents permission to be a little bit lax right now
that we're in a pandemic with social media totally and
(33:26):
mostly most importantly, I mean, we you just have to
understand that they need to be with friends, and as
painful as that is sometimes you know, in the old
pre pandemic life when they were on their phones all
the time or rejecting you because they want to go out,
that is what they need to do to grow up
safely and healthy. Because kids under eighteen, if they go
(33:49):
into solitary confinement, actually impacts their brain development. And that
is because they need to be around people in a
way that adults don't. So we are you know, by
having need you, they're allowed to connect and they they're
using it to create too. Even if it's not you know,
even if it's a TikTok, it's still fun and something
that they're doing. I am totally giving. Mainstream media is
(34:13):
not interested in, like you know, letting parents off the hook.
They always want to write about the negative effects, but
the reality is there's so much research out there that says,
you know, I don't know if you know about the
study where they looked at mental health and um and
teens and social media and they found that there's a
teeny negative effect for people who use social media way
(34:35):
too much. But it's the same negative effect as eating
a potato. Is that a negative effect eating exactly eating
a potato has the same effect on your mental health
as being on social media. Oh my god, that's so
much better than I assumed. Yes, it's so much better
(34:56):
than you assume. It really is that the word doesn't
get out there. So thank you for giving me this
opportunity to thank you for being so optimistic. You know,
I was just like social media was just a way
into sex trafficking to me. But now I'm like, Okay,
it's okay, it's actually positively making me activists. Okay, thank
you so much. Um, Dr Yelled the rules, and thank
(35:19):
you for being with me. And I now that I
have your email, UM, I feel bad for you because
I'm going to questions so they're Jesus. Okay, thank god
for you. I could talk to Dr Yelled at Wolves
all day about so many different things, but that's the
(35:40):
end of our time. I would love to get up
right now, but I have an obese stocks and on
my lap and I'm afraid if I wake her up,
she'll bite me. Don't forget to subscribe and follow me
on my social media on Twitter, Ali e Wentworth and
Instagram the real Ali Wentworth. Okay, crowmo queen, go ask
(36:01):
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