April 13, 2023 • 55 mins
What is it about the great outdoors? It’s joyful, liberating, powerful, calming and soulful all at once. It’s also healing. Ali finally gets to talk to her obsession, The Ebony Anglers, a powerhouse trailblazing group of Black fisherwomen about their experience with competitive deep sea fishing. Its foundation and summer camps, Black Girls Fish and Black Boys Boat were created to make sure all kids have access to nature’s healing powers. Bonus, the ladies share #BreakingNews with Ali! And then Ali connects with her clamming soul sister New York Times food column writer Melissa Clark about their clamming and foraging addiction. It sounds like hunting and gathering, fishing and foraging, being outside and in nature feeds our primal souls.
If you have questions or guest suggestions, Ali would love to hear from you. Call or text her at (323) 364-6356. Or email go-ask-ali-podcast-at-gmail.com. (No dashes)
**Go Ask Ali has been nominated for a Webby Award for Best Interview/Talk Show Episode! Please vote for Ali and the whole team at https://bit.ly/415e8uN by April 20th, 2023!
Links of Interest:
Oysters in the Form of a CSA (New York Times)
Melissa Clark Food Column, A Good Appetite (New York Times)
Melissa Clark, Cooking With the Three Sisters (New York Times column with clamming)
CREDITS:
Executive Producers: Sandie Bailey, Alex Alcheh, Lauren Hohman, Tyler Klang & Gabrielle Collins
Producer & Editor: Brooke Peterson-Bell
Associate Producer: Akiya McKnight
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Go Ask Ali, a production of Shonda Land
Audio and partnership with iHeartRadio. Rolling on the full. Laughing
is a thing I can I've seen you know, We've
all seen people do it. I've done it. Kiddy's for me. Now.
The work is to warrant what I have, even kind
of shitty stuff. You know, that's my works. It's imperfect.
So let me ask you a question about actors because
(00:23):
you are Yeah, me too. We are old funny duddies.
We go to sleep at ten, we wake up at six,
we go to bed at eight, so there are more
funny duddies than you. You are the funny duddiest. Yes,
(00:44):
welcome to Go ask Alli. I'm Ali Wentworth. Now, before
we jump into the most amazing episode of Go Ask
Ali ever, guess what. We've been nominated for a Webby Award.
It's a People's Choice award, so our people need to
vote for us. That is you please. I'll say more
about this at the end of the show, so stay tuned,
and there's also info in the show notes, or you
(01:07):
can go to the real Alley Wentworth Instagram and click
on my bio. Okay, we'll spin your rod and get
at your clamming rake, because this is an episode for
the books. Everything I love is in this episode of
Go ask Alley Fishing and clamming badass women, foragers and providers.
That's right, I have some unbelievable guests today. First up,
(01:31):
I get to introduce you to the Ebony Anglers, a
trailblazing team of sport fishing women. And later I share
a giddy conversation I had with my clam and sister
and soulmate, award winning New York Times food columnist and
cookbook author Melissa Clark. We talk about why we love
crouching and saltwater by ourselves. So damn much. Okay. First up,
(01:54):
the Ebony Anglers. Oh lord. They are a trophy winning,
groundbreaking group of women who have come together to promote
the joys of fishing, boating, and the great outdoors. Their passion,
victories and awards have inspired the creation of the Ebony
Angler Foundation, which has created educational programs, mentorship, and access
(02:15):
to phishing and voting experiences, primarily with a BIPOC community.
Its driving force is to make all of the outdoors
accessible and enjoyable for everyone. Based in North Carolina, the
Ebedy Anglers are Gia Peebles, Leslie Maousi, Tiana Davis, Bobby
at Palmer, and Glenda Turner, who unfortunately could not join
(02:36):
us for this. So we got four out of five,
which was a miracle. Damn it. It's the best day
of my life. And I'm going to tell you why,
because the Ebony Anglers are with me. I have been
chasing them like Moby Dick for years. I was emailing them,
I was going to their website. I was like, dear God,
(02:56):
I think that there Reese Witherspoon faster than these people.
And finally the day has come. The Ebony Anglers are here.
And first of all, ladies, thank you for being here,
thank you for anchoring and coming in and talking to me.
And second of all, I am a huge fisherwoman. I
showed you some photos before we started this podcast. I
(03:18):
am in it. I love it. It is my happy place,
it is my meditation place. I love to fish. And
you know, I've always been intimidated because my husband doesn't fish.
But I've never had a girlfriend that would go fishing
with me. And I've always wanted to go on a
fishing trip and I don't want to go with some dudes,
(03:40):
I want to go with my girlfriends and nobody will come.
So when I saw that you were a group a
bad ass fisherwoman, I was like, I want in, but
you're ebony Anglers. So unless the Ivory Anglers come along,
I'm out of luck. But we can be the ebony
and ivory angle. There we go. Absolutely, that's beautiful. Consider us.
(04:01):
Your girlfriends come on and join us. Listen, don't do
not say that to me. I will be on a
plane so fast it'll make your head spend everything about
the Ebony Anglers, your charitable component, all of it. And
I'm a big child advocate. I'm all about raising awareness
for girls. And there you all that one delicious little
(04:23):
net of fish. Have you captured everything that I love? Okay,
So I'm not going to talk anymore because I want
to hear from you. How did this start? How did
you guys come together? Were you drinking you know, sex
on the beaches one day and You're like, we could
start a fishing group. Yeah, so I'll jump in on
that one. Essentially, I got into fishing because my husband
(04:45):
loved to fish, so it was something kind of we
did as a pastime to equal out our crazy lives
as entrepreneurs. But we were down at the coast and
there's a huge tournament called the Big Rock Blue Marlin Tournament.
And the first day, this boat is backing in and
five ladies get off the boat, and then another boat
backs in and five more ladies get off the boat.
(05:07):
So I look at him and I'm like, okay, what's
going on here? Why all these women? And he was like, well,
the first two days is the ladies tournament. So, being
the natural competitor that I am, I'm like, okay, how
do you get into this right? And so he's like,
you gotta get a boat, you gotta get a captain,
you gotta get a team together. So immediately my rolodex
(05:31):
starts turning, like, Okay, who can I call that is
crazy enough to do this with me? Because, like you, Alie,
I don't know a lot of other women who fished, right,
who'd you call? Who'd you call? First? I called Leslie? Yes, yes,
And we actually had just been out fishing together and
I saw her fishing off of our boat and I
(05:52):
was like, okay, she's got some grit about her. So
she immediately rose up. So I called Leslie. Then I
called Bobby. We kind of have a long relationship in
the beauty industry. Then I called Glinda. We worked together,
and Leslie brought in Tiana because she knew her very well.
(06:12):
Tiana's a mother of five and owns the business, and
so I said she'd be a perfect fit for us. Okay,
you know what we're missing, Glinda, but let's do a
quick intro of everyone else here. Okay, I am Bobby
at Glover. I am recently married, I will be turning forty,
and I am also a grandmother, which is funny. And
(06:35):
I have five kids now. I went from one biological too.
Now I have five kids, a grandchild and one on
the way. I'm Leslie MAUSI I am a wife, a mom,
a retired educator. I own a music festival. I'm a
newly published author, and I turned fifty this year. I'm
a hashtag boy mom and all things music. That's me. Hello.
(07:00):
I'm Tianna Davis. I'm from Long Island, New York. I'm
the owner of a hospitality and catering company, the mother
of five amazing children, all of whom I've pushed through
my womb. And I'm a badass ebony angler I'm Ga Peebles,
(07:20):
the mother of three sons, entrepreneur, stylist, and former professional athletes. Amazing.
So okay, so let me here's my first question, because
I know there's a good answer to this. How do
the white men I feel about a bunch of black
(07:43):
women competing with them for fish? Because that is a
primal thing. You must have some stories about this, and
I want to hear them right now. The totally love it.
White men love us. Yeah, after they get over the disbelief,
like you know, like shock, like yes, are they really
(08:06):
out here fishing? And then after they realize we're really
out there fishing, they're like all in. They want to know, like,
you know, what are y'all doing? Who are y'all? How
are you doing this? Until we beat their ass? Not
only that they're that's right, they're looking at us and
we've got a full face of makeup and we've got
all these matching outfits. They don't we're matching outfits out
there on the water, but we're all color coordinated. Well
(08:26):
maybe they do below deck, but they certainly, and they're like,
what's going on here? But then when we pull our
fish out, you know, and we go up to the
way station. Then I think that's where that respect comes in.
And then they want to come over and talk and chat.
So it's like, oh, yeah, these ladies are serious, and
well how do they react when you beat them in
(08:47):
a competition? You're all smiling? Come on, I want to
hear just like fill the tea right, yeah, in disbelief. Yeah,
they're shocked. They're in disbel leave. Like you know, I
think even what you know, one person was like, yeah,
I'll checked the scale, you know, like and and they
just because they just couldn't believe it, you know initially.
(09:10):
But we walked over proud with our fish, like yeah,
you know we've won. This is our fish. You know,
take note, take note, take note. We're doing this too.
So all right, So to put it in a relationship metaphor,
do you all each have a story of the one
that got away? Did you have like a Marlin or
something huge at the end you lost it? Because that's
(09:33):
got that I oh, that's heartbreaking more than losing a relationship.
If that big fish is on and you lose it,
poor Bobby. Yeah, let me tell you my heartbreak in
marlins story. Um, so you know, it takes a lot
of intestinal fortitude. I always say to do this deep
sea fishing thing, especially competitively. And the first like super
(09:58):
huge tournament we had besides our very first one that
we won was the Big Rock Blue Marlin Tournament and
we are out on our you know, sixty foot yacht
in eight to ten foot ocean swells while it's pouring
down rain, and we did pretty good. We had a
pretty good hawk. We caught four large mahi, about twenty
(10:21):
twenty three pound mahi. And so it was my turn
up at the rod, and wouldn't you know it, five
six hundred pounds marlin hits the rod. And when I
tell you, it was like a train hit the rod.
I was not ready. Was I saw Jaws? I know
(10:43):
what it feels like. I guess it was like Jaws.
And I'm telling you that fish for forty minutes just
swam straight down like, did not rest, did not give
any slack. And I just remember thinking, well, something's wrong
with this rod because it's not the reels. It's just
(11:05):
not reeling. It just won't go. It wasn't the rod.
It was me and you know, just fighting this fish
that I'd never experienced that power before ever and could
not fathom what that felt like. And so, you know,
forty minutes and at this point, I didn't think that
I could pass the rod to my teammates because you know,
(11:26):
every tournament has different rules and we're knew, we're still
learning everything and um, and so no one could touch
the rod. You know, everybody was like yelling at me,
like hey, keep really keep red. I'm like, I can't,
and I'm thinking, you know, trying to trying to do
this thing. I put me in the fight chair and
for another twenty twenty five minutes, I'm in this chair,
fish swimming straight down. Next thing I know, I'm like, oh, yeah,
(11:50):
I got this. Now. The rod's easy to reel now.
And that's because he was gone. That was the last
opportunity that we had in that tournament to get something.
And I just felt like, oh my god, I failed
my team. And also I was kind of like, oh God,
thank god this is over. Wow. So, Tiana, for people
(12:13):
that don't fish, it explain to my listeners how strong
you have to be to be a fisher person. Like
when you've got a big fish at the end on
your hook, it's your guns better be like Michelle Obama's
I mean you got to reel that thing. And there
are times where I want to give up because I'm
(12:34):
just like, I don't have the strike. Yeah, absolutely, to
talk about that. Yeah. So one of the things that
we try to do is, you know, make sure that
we are ready and stay in shape, like we're hitting
the gym and we're working on our cardio and weightlifting,
because as Bobby had said, once that fish hits the line,
you feel like you've been hit by a truck, and
(12:57):
it is like sink or swim. Right, forgive me for
the poor metaphor right now, I love it, but it
is really a test of everything that you have inside
of you. You're great, you're endurance, particularly in the tournaments
when you cannot pass the rod over to your teammate.
You have this potentially three four five hundred pound fish
(13:20):
fighting for its life and you're fighting for a million dollars.
So who's gonna win? Right, Gia. Let me ask you
this greatest win like for some people that oh the
super Bowl that you know, for you guys, what competition
did you win? And it was just great? So people
(13:44):
can fish, you know, basically their entire career and never
win a tournament like just like the last one we
fished in for KLLA. I think those ladies had been
fishing for seven years and that was their first win
at So we always say it was kind of divine
order for us to actually win the first tournament that
(14:08):
we ever competed in as a team. Right, So with
that kind of being said, we're always chasing that high,
like that initial experience was just I mean, it gives
me goosebumps now just thinking about it. Right, our boat
captain was eighty years old and when we ruled that
(14:28):
fish in, he leaped off of his feet because he
was like, oh my god, this is the biggest catch
that he's ever had of his career. So I would
have to say that it's called the Carteret Community College
Spanish Mackerel Tournament. That was the first tournament that we
competed in as a unit or a team together, and
(14:49):
that was our first win. And do you get a trophy?
If you get a trophy, do you get a J
max gift card? Like what do you win with? So
we did get a monetary prize along with a trophy
as well. Yeah, and we would have took the TJ
Max to gift card also because to look at exactly
(15:11):
who wouldn't, right, who wouldn't So Leslie, let me ask
you this. So, when you guys you're doing these tournaments,
what's the furthest place from home you've gone to compete.
The farthest we've gone is Almarado, Florida. We really wanted
to take advantage of fishing during the winter months, and
(15:32):
here in North carolina's just so cold, it's kind of
miserable on the water. So we were just thinking, where
could we go it's warmer, Where do they have fishing
all year long? And we actually met on social media
some lovely, lovely ladies called real Gals, and that kind
of took us down to Florida, the West Palm Beach area,
(15:53):
and we found a really nice tournament down there called
the Fish for Holly Tournament, and it was tied to
a really great cause. And you know, we had just
put on Instagram that we were going to travel to
Florida and participate in this great tournament for a great cause.
(16:13):
And we get down there. We're wearing our sweatshirts and
our hats, and there were so many people there that said,
we know you guys. We were so happy to hear
that you were coming like we follow you. So just
to just to get all the way down to our
maraud Or Florida, the Keys and meet up with people
(16:33):
who had followed our journey and to know that we
all had the same connection. And that was the love
for this sport and it was the respect for um,
this family who had set up this wonderful tournament in
honor of their child. Yeah, it was a great experience.
How often do you guys fish in a year? Every
(16:53):
weekend every few months? Only wanted to hot out, like,
how does your schedule work? So we formed the team.
We wanted to make sure that we were fishing once
per quarter competitively and then um in between there how
often can we realistically practice? And so we try to
(17:14):
get out there maybe once every six to eight weeks,
and it doesn't always happen that way. Imagine trying to
sink five schedules and it's it's hell getting you on
my podcast exactly exactly now you understand one. So, Gia,
(17:35):
it's expensive the sport. Yes, you know. I know that.
When I want to fish in the summer because I
love it, it's it's cost me a pretty penny. So
it must cost you guys money renting the boats, buying
the gear. It really does. And you're exactly right, because,
especially for the larger tournaments where the purse is a
(17:56):
lot bigger, we have to charter a much larger like
Bobby had said, you know, sometimes it's forty one foot
to sixty, you know, plus and from North Carolina, we
have to go about two hours off of our coast
to get to the gold stream where the much larger
fish are that we're looking to catch. So you know,
(18:16):
we pretty much have financed it all ourselves. That is
the beauty of having a team, and that we can
kind of divvy up the costs and split it among
the five of us to all pitch in. And you know,
we agreed in the beginning, like we all agreed that
we were committed to this and it was something that
we not only wanted just to do, we wanted to
(18:38):
do it well. And so you know, we're all moms,
we're all business owners, were all wives. It's a sacrifice,
but we've been willing to make that sacrifice. Now, if
truth be told, for some of us, it is an escape, right,
I don't know what you're talking about. It is an escape.
(18:59):
We need that little breath, you know, just to to
recharge ourselves. And so it does make it nice to say, oh, honey,
I've got a fishing tournament this weekend, so I'll be
back so with your camps Black Girls Fish and Black
Boys Boat, which I think are incredibly fantastic. Has there
been a kid or an experience that really stands out
(19:20):
to you. One of the things that really is just
amazing to me each and every time it never loses
its luster, is when we see a kid that's caught
their very first fish that has happened so many times,
where the look on their face, the pure unadulterated glee
that they are feeling because they've caught this little pinfish
(19:44):
that's like four inches big. Right. But but for them,
you can't say that it's not that fifteen pound salmon,
right or the five hundred pound balls right, because it
is life changing. Y. Yeah, it's a moment of success,
it's an accomplishment, it's a reward, and you have to
have patience. They call it fishion, not catching, so you
(20:04):
you never know if you're going to get something and
you're casting out, you can't see what's below the surface,
and you know when you feel that tug on that line.
It's adrenaline, you know. It's that it's those endorphins that
are released and reeling it in and seeing what it is.
And when something hits our line, it's that moment when
you first see color, you know, and you're wondering what
(20:26):
it is. And you know, we're learning to tell different
fish by the type of fight that they give, but
you really never know until you see that color come
toward the surface, and when it breaks that surface, you
know that that's what these kids are feeling. It's that adrenaline,
natural high. Don't you think there's something really primal about
it too. You know. I remember during the during COVID,
(20:50):
I went out fishing a few times, and there was
something great about coming home with a fish and putting
it on the counter and looking at my husband and saying, like,
I'm a prof fighter. Yes, you know, I went out,
I got dinner. I cooked dinner. That's right, you know
what I mean. I love that feeling too, yes, absolutely absolutely,
(21:12):
and that that just adds to the feeling of accomplishment.
And I think for not only for us, but for
the kids, you know, learning how to fight something that
you can't see learning how to fight the unknown. Like
Bobby was saying, you don't know what it is until
you reel it up. So the only thing you have
to depend on is you your strength and your fortitude,
(21:33):
and you have got to pull it in and it's
all up to you. So it's a it's very self rewarding,
you know, and it's a great feeling to pull it
out the water. And that's why we do what we do.
You know, tournaments are amazing. We do that for the
thrill of it, but our foundation really is so that
we can impact lives of little kids that look like
(21:56):
us and just open them up to so many more opportunity.
I love it. There's a lot more to come after
the short break and we're back. You know. I actually
(22:19):
think teenagers could benefit so much from this too. I mean,
with all the issues they're dealing with right now, mental health, trauma, addiction,
global warming, civil unrest. You know, I've been saying for
years that I think there's a real mental health crisis
in our country for teenagers, and how amazing would it
be for them to have a place to go to
(22:41):
be competitive and to find their strength is such an
important thing, you know. I found clamming during COVID. But
you know, but it was a great coping thing for me,
and I think they need those sort of outdoor coping things.
But it's empowered too, and it's healthy, and it's something
(23:03):
else to focus on. Yeah, it is. It is healthy.
We have really noticed how children, even with addiction to devices,
when they're with us, it's a no device zone, and
so how they kind of don't want to release their
devices or turn them off. But after about thirty forty
five minutes there are yards away from their backpacks. They
(23:28):
are not thinking about phones, video games, consoles, none of that,
and they are playing with one another like we used
to back in the day, right outside, rolling around in
the sand, frolicking in the water. And it is just
a return to what's most important. And that was the
vision behind really creating the camps, because you know, we
(23:52):
see kids they deal with so much, whether it be depression,
a lot of kids are cutting themselves, a lot of
kids are coming out of the pandemic with emotional trauma
just from isolation. So we're really really glad that we
can be a part of healing. It's healing to us
to be out there. I mean just mentally, emotionally, it's
(24:15):
healing being out on the water perfectly. And I don't
know if you ladies remember, but we had a young
lady that was very apprehensive about engaging with the group.
I don't know if you ladies remember that, like I do,
remember socialization perspective. You know, she was like, I don't
have any friends, and you know, kind of nobody wanted
to play with me. And I think it was Tianna.
(24:37):
I think Tiana you were the one who kind of
really facilitated that. She took the young lady, she brought
her over to the other girls, and Tianna introduced her
to the other ladies, and like like Leslie was saying,
by the end of the camp, they were, you know,
playing together. You know, they're probably lifelong friends. Like remember
when we were in camp. What's really incredible with the
(24:58):
children is that I think for each of us, we're
able to identify parts of ourselves in these kids. So
for that particular young lady, I wanted to beat for
her what I needed when I was her age, and
just I saw something in her that really was an
opportunity to make connections that she could not do on
(25:19):
her own. In that moment and she just needed some nurturing.
Do you guys ever get any animal activists after you
I once posted a picture of me holding a big fish,
and people started talking about how inhumane I was, and
I was like, I ate it. I fed my family
with us. Yeah, we absolutely have, Okay, Yeah, yeah, we
do get some comments like that on social media. You know,
(25:41):
for the most part, it's it's positive, overwhelmingly positive. But
you know, you get those trolls out there and the
animal activists, they are serious and just like you said,
you know, like we picked charitable tournaments. You know, we're
about conservation. We always you know, when we bring in
meat fish and we divvat them up between our families.
(26:02):
We have fish tacos. You know, our husbands are waiting
at the docks for us to cook up our fish
that we went out and caught. And we really are
about stewardship of the environment and teaching the next generation,
which is why we started our foundation, you know, to
teach kids how to fish and how to boat and
(26:24):
you know, and about conservation. And we do have some news.
If I kid, you're giving me some breaking news, breaking news,
we saved it just for you. Yes, So um. So
our nonprofit is the Ebony Anglers Foundation, and we are
(26:45):
so excited to say that we've just partnered with the
National Parks Foundations and the National Parks Service and they
have awarded us a large grant to expand our programming
and our goal is to take the programming nation and wide.
We started off with a summer camp for kids here
in Durham, North Carolina, black girlish um about twenty twenty
(27:07):
five kids, Black girlsmission black boys. Yeah yeah. And and
the National Parks Service and Foundation they found us and
they you know, they pursued us and said, we want
to be a part of this. We love what you're
doing and we want to help, you know, and so
this is our pilot program and they have just been
so amazing and giving us the support that we need.
(27:30):
UM and so you know this this is huge for us,
huge for our foundation and our goals as UM as
a team to teach teach the littles. So we are
just so is amazing. Thank you. That is really great.
Thank you. Oh gosh, I just that is the best news.
And because I love the blueprint for your whole foundation
(27:54):
should be nationwide. I mean it should be global, but
let's start locally, but it should be nationwide. So congratulations,
thank you. So I can be part of it in
any way, Please tell me thank you. I'm serious. Oh absolutely,
we would love to invite you to come fishing with us.
I'm there, I am there, I am this is I
(28:17):
am not bullshitting you. Okay, lying there? Can you invite me?
I am gonna come. Wonderful Okay, yes, well you have
an open invitation, so just let us know when you're
You're available. I'm available, I'm available. Why don't you guys
come up to Long Island and come fishing with me?
How about that? There's some big, big fish in Long Island.
(28:39):
Let's do it. That would be awesome. So, you know,
my my podcast, Go Ask Ali, I ask people a
lot of questions, and so I like to give them
an opportunity at the end of the podcast to ask
me something. So all four of you can ask me
a question. You can go ask Ali, and let's start
(29:01):
with Bobby. Ask me anything, Bobby. You know, Al, I'm
so glad that you started with me because I have
a very important question to ask you. And my question is,
if this was a zombie apocalypse, what is your weapon
of choice if it's a But by the way, I
watch The Walking Dead and I'm watching The Last of Us,
so I think about this all the time. I don't
(29:24):
I don't believe in guns, but it seems to be
the only thing that they can use to kill the
zombies because you have to, you know, get them in
the head. So um, but I think some kind of
a big like a fish gutting knife would be you know,
because you can get him in the head with that,
you can kill the un zombie humans with it. So yeah,
pick cutting knife. She's given this some thought, Janna, how
(29:46):
can I answer her question? Okay, my question? So I
had several really great questions, but the one that I
landed on is what makes a good spy Um, a
poker face. A SPI will not let you know what
they're thinking or what they're doing. And I say that
(30:08):
as an empowered female, because you know, female spies are
always just using their sexuality. I think it's so much
more than that. But I think if you have a
poker face and they can't guess what you're thinking or doing,
or the fact that you've got a gun duct tape
to your thigh, or a good SI, I like it
(30:29):
is okay, giaf okay. So I am a beauty professional.
So I have a beauty question. To wax or to shave,
that is the question. What is your proper gia? I'm
I'm fairly hairless like that has never been an issue
for me. I shave okay. I have a Greek husband.
(30:51):
So my daughters are half Greek and they are dipped
in wax weekly. They are very good for me. Save
for my little Greek hairy daughters. It's wax everywhere everywhere.
You're not dipping the babies, are you. I'm not dipping them?
(31:15):
All right, leslie? What about your question? All right? So
here's my question. What was the worst advice you ever received? Oh?
Just stay with him, collaborate, listen. I am so happily
married right now. But you know, we all had our
(31:38):
bad choices. Our our frontal lobe hadn't developed. So you know,
I dated some bad boys and one of them was just,
you know, a bit of a drinker and a philanderer.
And I would say to my friends, well, he's cheated
on me so much. He's always drunk, and he never
pays for anything. And I would get nobody's so cute,
(32:00):
just stay with him. And I was like, that is
the worst advice now ever, I wish I got advice
like from my mother, like where sunscreen and you know,
have your own bank account. But this was the one
that stands out as the worst. Ebbony Anglers. I'm obsessed
with you. I love you. I am coming fishing with
(32:22):
you because I have it on tape, you asking me
and let's do it. I so look forward to it.
I love everything you do. Keep winning those competitions, keep
supporting our youth, and I'll see you down south soon.
So thank you, thank you, absolutely, thank you, thank you.
(32:45):
It's time for a short break. But when we come back,
we're going to jump off the boat, put our tushies
in the wet sand. Go from competition to meditation with
Melissa Clark, the New York Times food calmnist and cookbook author.
(33:08):
Welcome back to go ask Gali, and now it is
time for my clamming soul sister. Melissa Clark is an
award winning New York Times food columnist and cookbook author.
She has written forty five cookbooks, including the best selling
Dinner in French and the award winning Dinner Changing the
Game In twenty twelve, she joined the staff of the
New York Times, where she writes the highly popular food
(33:28):
section column A Good Appetite. Her latest book is Dinner
in One, a collection of complex tasting but easy making
one pot, one pan meals. She lives in Brooklyn with
her husband and daughter. So one morning in August, I believe,
my husband, George emailed me a article that you wrote
(33:53):
in the New York Times about clamming, and it spoke
to me like no other book article I've ever read,
because I discovered clamming and I got into it really
hardcore during COVID because we were out in Long Island,
and it saved my life because I would go out
there in my waiters with my rake, and I started
(34:17):
getting a few clams for the family, and then I
became so good at it that I started getting clams
for our neighbors, and then some food pantries, and I
just I became this incredibly. I don't know if there's
a god god in Greek mythology that clams, but I
became that person. So when I read your article, and
(34:39):
you too loved clamming and felt very meditative about it,
I thought, wow, I can't believe I married George. I
have just found my soulmate. So tell me about your
whole clamming experience. Well, first of all, I also found
clamming during the pandemic. I didn't grow up clamming. I
grew up in brook We didn't eat a lot of
(35:02):
clams though. I mean, we went to Lundy's, you know,
we did the whole Brooklyn thing. We went and we
had clams there, but we didn't actually go out and
get our own clams. It just wasn't a thing. We
went to fish stores and bought them. So I was
out on Shelter Island the first year of the pandemic
and I just got it in my head that I
wanted to clam because I love pasta with clam sauce.
I thought, well, they're right there, they're there. I don't
(35:25):
see them, I don't hear them, but I had faith.
It was crazy. It was like, I'm not religious, I'm
not a meditator, but somehow I knew that those clams
were there and they are waiting for me, and I
was going to get them. And I thought I'm gonna
I'm gonna try it. And I'd never done it, but
I asked my friends who live on Shelter Island we
were out visiting them, if they knew anything about clamming.
(35:45):
And they had a friend who was a clamming guru
and they went clamming all the time. So they brought
me along. I put my waiters on, I had my bucket.
They gave me a rake, and I got out there
and within fifteen minutes I had shed all that. I
was like, you know what, my toes need to be
in the sand. I like clamming with my toes. So
I it's summertime now, I assume it's warm out. Yeah.
(36:09):
Oh this was This was July or August actually, and
so every the water was warm. It was hot out.
I was in the sunshine and I was just like
doing a little shimmy dance on the sand because you know,
you do a little dance and your toes get in
the sand and you can find those clams with your
toes and you go down and you pull them up
and you're like, it's a rock. At the beginning, I
felt like Charlie Brown at Halloween. Yeah, you know, I
(36:31):
got a rough. I got a rock. But then I
started to my toes got sensitive and I could feel
the curve of the shell, and I was like, oh hah,
that's a play. I'm not a rock. And I started
to figure out what was what, and soon my bucket
began to fill and we caught one hundred and twenty
five clams that day between five of us, and we
made the biggest pasta with clamshus feast ever. And I
(36:54):
was ecstatic, right because here's the thing, Melissa. The first
part is there's something very primal, particularly during a global pandemic,
with the idea of I'm going to go out and
be a provider, like I'm going to actually go out
and get the food. So that was my first excitement
(37:15):
because I love my husband, but he is not a
forager of any kind. Then the next thing was and
I experienced a similar thing where I had a hard
time finding the clams. My first couple of times I
brought nothing back because I didn't know what I was doing.
And then when you start to find a few, whether
(37:36):
through your toes or with your rake or I use
my hands, it is like finding diamonds in a mind.
It is the most exciting thing. And then you sort
of hone your skill. Then you start to realize how to,
like you said, figure out what is a clam, what
is a rock? What is a broken shell? Exactly? Yeah,
(37:58):
and then you know your spot, right, you go back
and you're like, that's my spot. And then you see
someone else in your spotty really mad, even though you
know you don't live there and you're just visiting. Oh No.
I got extremely territorial about this area because I would
go to a place in the springs in Long Island,
which usually there was nobody ever there, which another part
of it I loved was it became very meditative for me.
(38:19):
It's like I like to go out there by myself, exactly,
and every once in a while I'd see usually this
like eighty year old guy with no shirt on, you know,
with his basket. But we had that very simple nod
of like you stay out of my area, I'll stay
out of your, you know, And it was very if
it's very calm. So then my clamming and I don't
(38:40):
know how far it went with you, and I'd like
to hear, but my clamming has gotten so out of
control that I do it in the winter and I
recently at the end of the summer in Long Island
they have the biggest clam contest that I tried to
win and just missed out. So then I had to
go look for the biggest clam and I found almost
(39:01):
a two pounder. You didn't. Yeah, So then it's like,
how do I find like the little ones for the
linguidy of Bengali, but that I need the big ones
to win the clam contest. So tell me about that
part of the experience. Okay, that you are a clamor
beyond me and will you take me clamming? Will that
ever happened? Yeah? I feel like now you could be
my new clamming guru. Because we don't have a place
(39:24):
on Long Island. The first summer we rented a place
on Shelter Island and we went clamming there. Then last
summer we went to Orient on the North Fork and
we rented a place there and I got I got
my legal clamming license. It isn't that a great feeling. Yes,
I went down to the town hall and they sold
me the seafood license and so I was very official,
and so I was out there every day and so
(39:47):
for me it was only two weeks. You know, it
was a week in summer twenty twenty one, and then
a week in summer twenty twenty two or two weeks then.
So I've all told three weeks of clambing experience. So
obviously I'm nowhere near where you are, but it really
is to me. I can't wait. I mean, I'm looking
for my house again this year. I'm like, I need
a house where I can go clamming because I need
(40:07):
the meditative experience and that is the most important part
of it. Yes, I love the clams. I don't want
to buy clams. It's funny because I think about it.
I'm like, I, like you said, I need to pull
them out of the sand myself. Yeah, for to me
as delicious and satisfying. So you made the Linguinian clams,
so I found that was my daughters their favorite food,
and I kept making Linguinian clams during COVID and then
(40:30):
they were like enough with the linguinan so then I
had to be creative. But there's nobody more creative with
food than you. So did you make other things besides absolutely? Yes, Okay,
let's hear the beginning with clam was like the first summer.
Then the second summer I branched out. I did clam chowder,
all kinds of clam chowder. So I did traditional clam
chowder with milk and potatoes. I did Manhattan clam chowder,
(40:52):
which I love with the tomatoes. I did a coconut
clam chowder with corn and coconut milk, which was so good.
It was almost a little bit a tie and inspired
by Thai food. There was a lemongrass and cilantro and
um lime juice and it was so good, um okay.
And then so I decided that really what I love
(41:12):
is I love raw clams. I love the crunch of
a raw clam like I love oysters. But I really
love raw clams. And so I decided I was going
to try to open them, and I can't do it.
I am brilliant at opening oysters. Give me two dozen,
three dozen oysters. I can open them in two seconds.
You're a shucker. I can't get the damn clams open.
They won't open like when they're when they when they
(41:33):
clam up, they do not want to open for me.
And they were good the ones you got when you
went clamming a Long Island, I mean the three that
I got open. Yeah, Oh you know what, I did
a lot. Also, we steamed them. So I steamed him
like muscles, garlic, white wine, red pepper flakes, and parsley,
and then a big bag yet and you just yes,
we did that. We did that too. It was delicious. Yeah. Um.
(41:56):
So here's the thing I'm wondering now if after my
clamming I kind of want to get an oyster bed now, Okay,
so that interests you at all? Yes? So, yes, I've
written about oysters. I wrote a big story about how
oyster farming is going to save us. I truly believe
in oyster farming. I belong to an oyster CSA where
(42:19):
I get oysters every other week. How do you do that?
I want to be part of that. It's amazing. They'll yeah,
they have delivery points. They're Maine or they're from all
actually from all over the Northeast. It started out in
just Maine and now it's in Massachusetts. They have some
from Canada. And it started out because the oyster industry
(42:39):
was having a huge problem during early COVID because all
the restaurants were closed and they couldn't sell their oysters.
So they started in oyster CSA to distribute directly to
people so that they could stay basically stay afloat. And
I've been a member ever since, and there's so much
easier to shut. Yeah, they're easier to shut. I don't
cook them. I don't like them cook. If I'm gonna
(43:00):
eat my I like my clams cooked or raw. I
like my oysters raw. They have to be raw. Yeah,
I don't like them any other way. What about muscles?
Can you can you go muscling? Like in Maine? It
Can we just go gather muscles on the beach somewhere?
I'm sure. Well, two of my best friends are from Maine.
They're main girls, and they say yes. And I've seen
a lot of muscle shells in Long Island, and I
(43:22):
know that you can go scaloping, So I don't see why.
I mean on my feeling is if I see a
trace of it, you got to be able to do it.
So if I see lots of muscle shells, there's got
to be muscles in there somewhere. The question is is
there enough of them to gather or are they protected?
So well, that's now that we have our license, our
seafood license, this is stuff we need to explore exactly.
But the big issue is will it be as meditative
(43:45):
as it is when we go clamming, because I used
to go crabbing, and crabbing I found meditative and I
did it with a long net off a dock, and
that was very meditative. And it also had like a
bit of battle, you know what I mean. There was
you felt a little bit like you were a game
of throwing trying to get the you know, lure them
(44:05):
in and then grab them up and then grab them up.
And that was exciting. But it's not necessarily meditative the
way the clamming is. So I'm curious if there's other
crustacean sports that will give us the kind of sedated,
you know, less anxious state that obviously Melissa and I
(44:26):
need to be in. Well, I think the thing about clamming,
and for me, the thing that really is attractive to
me is that I don't I can't have my phone
because I'm in the water. Yeah, so no phone, I'm offshore,
I'm away from my people. No one wants to go clamming.
Let me tell you, no one wants to go clamming
with me. I beg people to come clambing with me.
(44:46):
I know, I can't get people now, wait, let me
ask you this. How deep in the water have you gone?
What's the deepest? Um, I guess okay, So I only
go as far as I can take my arm and
reach down to pick up the clam without getting my
hair wet, okay, because I don't want to have to
shampoo every day, So fair enough. What about you? So
(45:06):
I same with me. I could get up to the
waist as long as I could take my arm down.
But there was a few times in the summer where
I got overly excited and I went under, oh like
literally submerged myself because I my hand felt a bevy
a host as you call it. But I felt a
(45:27):
lot of them, the convention of clams, convention of clams,
and I just I couldn't help myself, so I went under,
which was I had to. I had to sort of
pull myself together after that because if I felt a
little aggressive and slightly crazy. But usually it's I need
to just reach down as far as my hand can go. Yeah, exactly. Um,
I mean if I time it right with the tides,
(45:49):
there's times when I can go and I'm just up
to my ankles right. Well, No, I always go low tide. Yeah,
because it's just not worth it. So I always go
low tide, and there's been time times where it's been
so low that I'm not even in water there. It's
just like muddy mushy, and I can feel down with
my hands and pull them up, which I like to
(46:09):
do as well. I mean, they're all forms of clamming,
and I love them all equally. Have you ever done
razor clams? No, because I don't like them as much.
I like it. They're not as thick and chewy as
a regular cohg. Yes, little neck carrystone co hogs. I
(46:30):
love them all too. I mean, and I'm a cape
cod girl, so I love steamers. You know steamers are funny. Okay,
so I love steamers too. I think I love them
because of the melted butter. I think, well, of course.
But given a choice between a little neck and a steamer,
I'm gonna eat the little neck. Oh that's interesting, I'll
eat the steamer. You'll eat the steamer. Yeah. And I
love fried clams, fried steamers, ipswich, fried clams, fried clams amazing,
(46:55):
but they have to be real clams. I don't like
the clamstrips. I don't like it when they give you
the fried clam strips and pretend they're clams. I like
the clam bellies. Oh yeah, you have to have the
clam bellies you can. Otherwise it's just fried dough, you know,
like that. I don't even know what. I think they're squid.
I think they lie. I think they're not. It's fried dough.
It's fried dough. It's not even anything. Do you potentially think, Melissy,
that you could write a cookbook that was just all
(47:16):
clam based recipes of all the different clams, or would
that end up at the Strand bookstore? Well, it depends.
I think that if um, if I had enough storytelling
behind it, you know, like all, get all the clamming
personalities out there, like you and whoever, and all the
recipes right, and get everybody's recipes and everybody's clam stories,
(47:37):
and and maybe if it were a clamming how to
meditation wellness guide crossed with cookbook, see, I think that
would work. And then I think if you threw in
a menopause group that would go clamming together, oh my god,
and you got Oprah to endorse it, I think then
(47:59):
you get your pollar. So when you're out there and
you get a hot flash, no problem, You're just like, oh,
I'm just gonna spend right down and splash myself off. Exactly.
I feel like there is a thread between clamming, menopause,
and meditation that I'm going to figure out and I'm
going to pull you on board as one of the
members of the new of my Foundation. I am one
(48:19):
hundred percent there. You know another thing, though, I think
that it might actually be true, I do sleep better
when I clam, Like I sleep better, you know. Oh yeah,
It's like when I'm out there and then I come in.
I mean, maybe it's just the physical exertion of it.
Maybe it's because I only clam when I'm on vacation,
but I sleep so much better. Of course, you're you're
exerting muscles that you probably don't use that much. I
(48:41):
don't care if you go to soul cycle. You know,
some of the stuff you do for clamming is not typical.
And yeah, that reaching down you're in the water, yea yeah,
and the water is very soothing. And also I'm bringing
it back to the caveman thing, you know what I mean,
you foraged. That's exhausting. You know, you go you hunt,
(49:03):
you gather, and then you sleep. That's what we used
to do, and that's all we used to do as
human beings. So you know, I've gone mushrooming. I've gone
foraging in the woods. I have done that, but it's
not like clamming. No, it's not. And I'm scared of
mushrooming because I'm afraid I'm going to pick the wrong
mushroom and I'm going to have a different experience. I've
only gone mushrooming where it was like morals, where you
(49:26):
really knew right like there's no mistaking them, there's no doubt,
and you're like, oh, okay, that is a patch of
morals and I know exactly what they are, and all
these other mushrooms around here are just going to stay
right in the ground. Yeah, because I don't need to
go on some acid trip and think I'm Bob Dylan
for the rest of my life. No, don't need any
phantom thread, no experiences. What about truffle hunting? Have you
(49:46):
ever done that? I have done that, But you know
the thing about truffle hunting is it's ninety nine percent
when they bring people like me and you out there staged,
it's all staged, they bury the truffle totally. Oh okay,
so forget it. Forget It's not if they dumped a
bunch of clams in a baby pool and asked us
to go. Okay, all right, again, nothing compares to clamming.
(50:07):
There is. It's just being out in the water by ourself.
And even when you go with someone, I mean a
few times I've dragged my poor family out with me.
You're kind as far away and the water absorbs the
sound and you can't really hear what they're saying. Yeah,
which is kind of a good thing. No, exactly, because
then you've got companionship. Like if you and I would clamming,
we would be out there, we'd both have our buckets,
(50:27):
we'd like say hi, maybe we'd like compare hot flashes.
Then we'd do our clamming thing and we wouldn't even
talk to each other, except if we caught like a
big one, we'd be like yeah, or you know, we'd
show our buckets occasionally and then we'd be so happy,
and then we would come in and we'd make lunch. Yeah,
and that's where all the talking happens, exactly, yea. And
I mean, another thing that makes it meditative is because
(50:48):
you are so in the moment, right, you don't have
your phone, You're not thinking about work. All you're thinking
about is the sensation of can I feel the clam?
Can I feel the clam? Can I feel? And there
is no other time that I'm as the moment as that, right,
And so think about when we were in a global pandemic.
There was so much anxiety at that point that clamming
(51:09):
to me was meditative because I just focused on the
one task at hand and it was incredibly relaxing not
to be reading the paper and freaking out or listening
to my husband doing ABC news briefs down in the
dining room so zoom. Yeah. So that to me, it
was on all levels meditative because you focused on the
(51:31):
one thing. Yeah. All right, So I'm going the summer.
Are you going to come with me? I am all right,
I'm gonna be there. We're gonna clam we're gonna cook,
and then we're gonna put it on our instagrams and
people are gonna go, oh, what about that? Those girls
were talking about clamming, and they went and they did it,
and there they are and there's the recipe, and everyone
else can go clamming too. You know, I don't know
if people like clams as much as you and I do. Though,
(51:53):
I feel like people don't understand clams. They just don't know.
So we are going to take them by the hand
and the rake, and we're going to show them exactly. Hey,
do I get to ask you the question? Yes? Oh
my god, I was again so excited about finding a
clambing partner. You can ask me anything you want. The
(52:14):
Wasp Cookbook, Yes, you wrote that. I wrote that a
million years ago. And it is not a real cookbook
in that I don't want people to actually make their recipes.
It is a social commentary on my people because I
grew up eating deviled eggs and prune whip and chipped
(52:35):
cream beef on toast, and I didn't realize that there
was a whole culinary world out there. Things like garlic
existed and spices, and so that's what got me interested
in cooking. Is there? Okay? So if I was going
to make one recipe from your Wasp cookbook, which I
have ordered, oh my gosh, what is the recipe from
(52:57):
your Wasp Cookbook that I should make? Well, I mean,
I have to say deviled eggs or a staple, and uh,
you know, I say in the book that there's a
fine line between white trash cooking and wasp cooking. There's
a lot of mayonnaise with both. But the deviled eggs
and then bourbon balls, I call them Grandpa's bourbon balls. Oh,
(53:19):
bourbon balls balls, So that would be it. I mean,
prune a whip sounds disgusting, but it really tastes good.
It's just basically whipped cream and prune juice, which is
actually delicious. But everything else, I would enjoy the book
for its social commentary unless it's recipes. Okay, well, I'm
very excited to get it. I'm going to make the
(53:39):
bourbon balls because I do love them, and make deviled eggs,
and then you and I are gonna go clambing. It's
gonna be awesome. I can't wait. Thank you, Thanks, I'm excited.
Oh don't think I'm not going to be deep sea
fishing with the Ebony Anglers or clamming with Melissa Clark
this summer, because I am. So you just be checking
(54:02):
my Instagram because you're going to see a lot of
pictures of me bringing in a marlin or chucking a
bunch of co hogs. Thank you for listening to Go
ask Alli. The ebbty Anglers team is on Instagram and
Facebook at ebboty Anglers and its website is super easy
ebbedy anglers dot com and be sure to check out
Melissa Clark's New York Times food section column a good Appetite.
(54:24):
You can also keep up with her on Instagram at
clark Bar for more info and what you heard on
this amusing episode. Check out our show notes. Okay, so
what about the Webby Award nomination. It's for the best
individual interview talk show episode and we are beyond excited.
It's a People's Choice awards, so our people need to
vote for us, and that is you. So please go vote.
(54:46):
I've done it and it's super easy and the link
is in their show notes. Or you can go to
the Real Alley Wentworth Instagram and click on my bio. Okay,
be sure to subscribe, rate and review Go ask Alli
and follow me on social media on Instagram at the
Real Wentworth. Now listen, we're coming to the end of
Go ask Alli's third season, but keep those questions and
suggestions coming in because I'd love to hear from you.
(55:08):
And there's a bunch of ways you can do it.
You can call or text me at three two three
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Ask Aali podcast at gmail dot com. And if you
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Ask Alli. Go Ask Gali is a production of Shondaland
(55:30):
Audio and partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio,
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to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Go Ask Ali, a production of Shonda Land
Audio and partnership with iHeartRadio. Rolling on the full. Laughing
is a thing I can I've seen you know, We've
all seen people do it. I've done it. Kiddy's for me. Now.
The work is to warrant what I have, even kind
of shitty stuff. You know, that's my works. It's imperfect.
So let me ask you a question about actors because
(00:23):
you are Yeah, me too. We are old funny duddies.
We go to sleep at ten, we wake up at six,
we go to bed at eight, so there are more
funny duddies than you. You are the funny duddiest. Yes,
(00:44):
welcome to Go ask Alli. I'm Ali Wentworth. Now, before
we jump into the most amazing episode of Go Ask
Ali ever, guess what. We've been nominated for a Webby Award.
It's a People's Choice award, so our people need to
vote for us. That is you please. I'll say more
about this at the end of the show, so stay tuned,
and there's also info in the show notes, or you
(01:07):
can go to the real Alley Wentworth Instagram and click
on my bio. Okay, we'll spin your rod and get
at your clamming rake, because this is an episode for
the books. Everything I love is in this episode of
Go ask Alley Fishing and clamming badass women, foragers and providers.
That's right, I have some unbelievable guests today. First up,
(01:31):
I get to introduce you to the Ebony Anglers, a
trailblazing team of sport fishing women. And later I share
a giddy conversation I had with my clam and sister
and soulmate, award winning New York Times food columnist and
cookbook author Melissa Clark. We talk about why we love
crouching and saltwater by ourselves. So damn much. Okay. First up,
(01:54):
the Ebony Anglers. Oh lord. They are a trophy winning,
groundbreaking group of women who have come together to promote
the joys of fishing, boating, and the great outdoors. Their passion,
victories and awards have inspired the creation of the Ebony
Angler Foundation, which has created educational programs, mentorship, and access
(02:15):
to phishing and voting experiences, primarily with a BIPOC community.
Its driving force is to make all of the outdoors
accessible and enjoyable for everyone. Based in North Carolina, the
Ebedy Anglers are Gia Peebles, Leslie Maousi, Tiana Davis, Bobby
at Palmer, and Glenda Turner, who unfortunately could not join
(02:36):
us for this. So we got four out of five,
which was a miracle. Damn it. It's the best day
of my life. And I'm going to tell you why,
because the Ebony Anglers are with me. I have been
chasing them like Moby Dick for years. I was emailing them,
I was going to their website. I was like, dear God,
(02:56):
I think that there Reese Witherspoon faster than these people.
And finally the day has come. The Ebony Anglers are here.
And first of all, ladies, thank you for being here,
thank you for anchoring and coming in and talking to me.
And second of all, I am a huge fisherwoman. I
showed you some photos before we started this podcast. I
(03:18):
am in it. I love it. It is my happy place,
it is my meditation place. I love to fish. And
you know, I've always been intimidated because my husband doesn't fish.
But I've never had a girlfriend that would go fishing
with me. And I've always wanted to go on a
fishing trip and I don't want to go with some dudes,
(03:40):
I want to go with my girlfriends and nobody will come.
So when I saw that you were a group a
bad ass fisherwoman, I was like, I want in, but
you're ebony Anglers. So unless the Ivory Anglers come along,
I'm out of luck. But we can be the ebony
and ivory angle. There we go. Absolutely, that's beautiful. Consider us.
(04:01):
Your girlfriends come on and join us. Listen, don't do
not say that to me. I will be on a
plane so fast it'll make your head spend everything about
the Ebony Anglers, your charitable component, all of it. And
I'm a big child advocate. I'm all about raising awareness
for girls. And there you all that one delicious little
(04:23):
net of fish. Have you captured everything that I love? Okay,
So I'm not going to talk anymore because I want
to hear from you. How did this start? How did
you guys come together? Were you drinking you know, sex
on the beaches one day and You're like, we could
start a fishing group. Yeah, so I'll jump in on
that one. Essentially, I got into fishing because my husband
(04:45):
loved to fish, so it was something kind of we
did as a pastime to equal out our crazy lives
as entrepreneurs. But we were down at the coast and
there's a huge tournament called the Big Rock Blue Marlin Tournament.
And the first day, this boat is backing in and
five ladies get off the boat, and then another boat
backs in and five more ladies get off the boat.
(05:07):
So I look at him and I'm like, okay, what's
going on here? Why all these women? And he was like, well,
the first two days is the ladies tournament. So, being
the natural competitor that I am, I'm like, okay, how
do you get into this right? And so he's like,
you gotta get a boat, you gotta get a captain,
you gotta get a team together. So immediately my rolodex
(05:31):
starts turning, like, Okay, who can I call that is
crazy enough to do this with me? Because, like you, Alie,
I don't know a lot of other women who fished, right,
who'd you call? Who'd you call? First? I called Leslie? Yes, yes,
And we actually had just been out fishing together and
I saw her fishing off of our boat and I
(05:52):
was like, okay, she's got some grit about her. So
she immediately rose up. So I called Leslie. Then I
called Bobby. We kind of have a long relationship in
the beauty industry. Then I called Glinda. We worked together,
and Leslie brought in Tiana because she knew her very well.
(06:12):
Tiana's a mother of five and owns the business, and
so I said she'd be a perfect fit for us. Okay,
you know what we're missing, Glinda, but let's do a
quick intro of everyone else here. Okay, I am Bobby
at Glover. I am recently married, I will be turning forty,
and I am also a grandmother, which is funny. And
(06:35):
I have five kids now. I went from one biological too.
Now I have five kids, a grandchild and one on
the way. I'm Leslie MAUSI I am a wife, a mom,
a retired educator. I own a music festival. I'm a
newly published author, and I turned fifty this year. I'm
a hashtag boy mom and all things music. That's me. Hello.
(07:00):
I'm Tianna Davis. I'm from Long Island, New York. I'm
the owner of a hospitality and catering company, the mother
of five amazing children, all of whom I've pushed through
my womb. And I'm a badass ebony angler I'm Ga Peebles,
(07:20):
the mother of three sons, entrepreneur, stylist, and former professional athletes. Amazing.
So okay, so let me here's my first question, because
I know there's a good answer to this. How do
the white men I feel about a bunch of black
(07:43):
women competing with them for fish? Because that is a
primal thing. You must have some stories about this, and
I want to hear them right now. The totally love it.
White men love us. Yeah, after they get over the disbelief,
like you know, like shock, like yes, are they really
(08:06):
out here fishing? And then after they realize we're really
out there fishing, they're like all in. They want to know, like,
you know, what are y'all doing? Who are y'all? How
are you doing this? Until we beat their ass? Not
only that they're that's right, they're looking at us and
we've got a full face of makeup and we've got
all these matching outfits. They don't we're matching outfits out
there on the water, but we're all color coordinated. Well
(08:26):
maybe they do below deck, but they certainly, and they're like,
what's going on here? But then when we pull our
fish out, you know, and we go up to the
way station. Then I think that's where that respect comes in.
And then they want to come over and talk and chat.
So it's like, oh, yeah, these ladies are serious, and
well how do they react when you beat them in
(08:47):
a competition? You're all smiling? Come on, I want to
hear just like fill the tea right, yeah, in disbelief. Yeah,
they're shocked. They're in disbel leave. Like you know, I
think even what you know, one person was like, yeah,
I'll checked the scale, you know, like and and they
just because they just couldn't believe it, you know initially.
(09:10):
But we walked over proud with our fish, like yeah,
you know we've won. This is our fish. You know,
take note, take note, take note. We're doing this too.
So all right, So to put it in a relationship metaphor,
do you all each have a story of the one
that got away? Did you have like a Marlin or
something huge at the end you lost it? Because that's
(09:33):
got that I oh, that's heartbreaking more than losing a relationship.
If that big fish is on and you lose it,
poor Bobby. Yeah, let me tell you my heartbreak in
marlins story. Um, so you know, it takes a lot
of intestinal fortitude. I always say to do this deep
sea fishing thing, especially competitively. And the first like super
(09:58):
huge tournament we had besides our very first one that
we won was the Big Rock Blue Marlin Tournament and
we are out on our you know, sixty foot yacht
in eight to ten foot ocean swells while it's pouring
down rain, and we did pretty good. We had a
pretty good hawk. We caught four large mahi, about twenty
(10:21):
twenty three pound mahi. And so it was my turn
up at the rod, and wouldn't you know it, five
six hundred pounds marlin hits the rod. And when I
tell you, it was like a train hit the rod.
I was not ready. Was I saw Jaws? I know
(10:43):
what it feels like. I guess it was like Jaws.
And I'm telling you that fish for forty minutes just
swam straight down like, did not rest, did not give
any slack. And I just remember thinking, well, something's wrong
with this rod because it's not the reels. It's just
(11:05):
not reeling. It just won't go. It wasn't the rod.
It was me and you know, just fighting this fish
that I'd never experienced that power before ever and could
not fathom what that felt like. And so, you know,
forty minutes and at this point, I didn't think that
I could pass the rod to my teammates because you know,
(11:26):
every tournament has different rules and we're knew, we're still
learning everything and um, and so no one could touch
the rod. You know, everybody was like yelling at me,
like hey, keep really keep red. I'm like, I can't,
and I'm thinking, you know, trying to trying to do
this thing. I put me in the fight chair and
for another twenty twenty five minutes, I'm in this chair,
fish swimming straight down. Next thing I know, I'm like, oh, yeah,
(11:50):
I got this. Now. The rod's easy to reel now.
And that's because he was gone. That was the last
opportunity that we had in that tournament to get something.
And I just felt like, oh my god, I failed
my team. And also I was kind of like, oh God,
thank god this is over. Wow. So, Tiana, for people
(12:13):
that don't fish, it explain to my listeners how strong
you have to be to be a fisher person. Like
when you've got a big fish at the end on
your hook, it's your guns better be like Michelle Obama's
I mean you got to reel that thing. And there
are times where I want to give up because I'm
(12:34):
just like, I don't have the strike. Yeah, absolutely, to
talk about that. Yeah. So one of the things that
we try to do is, you know, make sure that
we are ready and stay in shape, like we're hitting
the gym and we're working on our cardio and weightlifting,
because as Bobby had said, once that fish hits the line,
you feel like you've been hit by a truck, and
(12:57):
it is like sink or swim. Right, forgive me for
the poor metaphor right now, I love it, but it
is really a test of everything that you have inside
of you. You're great, you're endurance, particularly in the tournaments
when you cannot pass the rod over to your teammate.
You have this potentially three four five hundred pound fish
(13:20):
fighting for its life and you're fighting for a million dollars.
So who's gonna win? Right, Gia. Let me ask you
this greatest win like for some people that oh the
super Bowl that you know, for you guys, what competition
did you win? And it was just great? So people
(13:44):
can fish, you know, basically their entire career and never
win a tournament like just like the last one we
fished in for KLLA. I think those ladies had been
fishing for seven years and that was their first win
at So we always say it was kind of divine
order for us to actually win the first tournament that
(14:08):
we ever competed in as a team. Right, So with
that kind of being said, we're always chasing that high,
like that initial experience was just I mean, it gives
me goosebumps now just thinking about it. Right, our boat
captain was eighty years old and when we ruled that
(14:28):
fish in, he leaped off of his feet because he
was like, oh my god, this is the biggest catch
that he's ever had of his career. So I would
have to say that it's called the Carteret Community College
Spanish Mackerel Tournament. That was the first tournament that we
competed in as a unit or a team together, and
(14:49):
that was our first win. And do you get a trophy?
If you get a trophy, do you get a J
max gift card? Like what do you win with? So
we did get a monetary prize along with a trophy
as well. Yeah, and we would have took the TJ
Max to gift card also because to look at exactly
(15:11):
who wouldn't, right, who wouldn't So Leslie, let me ask
you this. So, when you guys you're doing these tournaments,
what's the furthest place from home you've gone to compete.
The farthest we've gone is Almarado, Florida. We really wanted
to take advantage of fishing during the winter months, and
(15:32):
here in North carolina's just so cold, it's kind of
miserable on the water. So we were just thinking, where
could we go it's warmer, Where do they have fishing
all year long? And we actually met on social media
some lovely, lovely ladies called real Gals, and that kind
of took us down to Florida, the West Palm Beach area,
(15:53):
and we found a really nice tournament down there called
the Fish for Holly Tournament, and it was tied to
a really great cause. And you know, we had just
put on Instagram that we were going to travel to
Florida and participate in this great tournament for a great cause.
(16:13):
And we get down there. We're wearing our sweatshirts and
our hats, and there were so many people there that said,
we know you guys. We were so happy to hear
that you were coming like we follow you. So just
to just to get all the way down to our
maraud Or Florida, the Keys and meet up with people
(16:33):
who had followed our journey and to know that we
all had the same connection. And that was the love
for this sport and it was the respect for um,
this family who had set up this wonderful tournament in
honor of their child. Yeah, it was a great experience.
How often do you guys fish in a year? Every
(16:53):
weekend every few months? Only wanted to hot out, like,
how does your schedule work? So we formed the team.
We wanted to make sure that we were fishing once
per quarter competitively and then um in between there how
often can we realistically practice? And so we try to
(17:14):
get out there maybe once every six to eight weeks,
and it doesn't always happen that way. Imagine trying to
sink five schedules and it's it's hell getting you on
my podcast exactly exactly now you understand one. So, Gia,
(17:35):
it's expensive the sport. Yes, you know. I know that.
When I want to fish in the summer because I
love it, it's it's cost me a pretty penny. So
it must cost you guys money renting the boats, buying
the gear. It really does. And you're exactly right, because,
especially for the larger tournaments where the purse is a
(17:56):
lot bigger, we have to charter a much larger like
Bobby had said, you know, sometimes it's forty one foot
to sixty, you know, plus and from North Carolina, we
have to go about two hours off of our coast
to get to the gold stream where the much larger
fish are that we're looking to catch. So you know,
(18:16):
we pretty much have financed it all ourselves. That is
the beauty of having a team, and that we can
kind of divvy up the costs and split it among
the five of us to all pitch in. And you know,
we agreed in the beginning, like we all agreed that
we were committed to this and it was something that
we not only wanted just to do, we wanted to
(18:38):
do it well. And so you know, we're all moms,
we're all business owners, were all wives. It's a sacrifice,
but we've been willing to make that sacrifice. Now, if
truth be told, for some of us, it is an escape, right,
I don't know what you're talking about. It is an escape.
(18:59):
We need that little breath, you know, just to to
recharge ourselves. And so it does make it nice to say, oh, honey,
I've got a fishing tournament this weekend, so I'll be
back so with your camps Black Girls Fish and Black
Boys Boat, which I think are incredibly fantastic. Has there
been a kid or an experience that really stands out
(19:20):
to you. One of the things that really is just
amazing to me each and every time it never loses
its luster, is when we see a kid that's caught
their very first fish that has happened so many times,
where the look on their face, the pure unadulterated glee
that they are feeling because they've caught this little pinfish
(19:44):
that's like four inches big. Right. But but for them,
you can't say that it's not that fifteen pound salmon,
right or the five hundred pound balls right, because it
is life changing. Y. Yeah, it's a moment of success,
it's an accomplishment, it's a reward, and you have to
have patience. They call it fishion, not catching, so you
(20:04):
you never know if you're going to get something and
you're casting out, you can't see what's below the surface,
and you know when you feel that tug on that line.
It's adrenaline, you know. It's that it's those endorphins that
are released and reeling it in and seeing what it is.
And when something hits our line, it's that moment when
you first see color, you know, and you're wondering what
(20:26):
it is. And you know, we're learning to tell different
fish by the type of fight that they give, but
you really never know until you see that color come
toward the surface, and when it breaks that surface, you
know that that's what these kids are feeling. It's that adrenaline,
natural high. Don't you think there's something really primal about
it too. You know. I remember during the during COVID,
(20:50):
I went out fishing a few times, and there was
something great about coming home with a fish and putting
it on the counter and looking at my husband and saying, like,
I'm a prof fighter. Yes, you know, I went out,
I got dinner. I cooked dinner. That's right, you know
what I mean. I love that feeling too, yes, absolutely absolutely,
(21:12):
and that that just adds to the feeling of accomplishment.
And I think for not only for us, but for
the kids, you know, learning how to fight something that
you can't see learning how to fight the unknown. Like
Bobby was saying, you don't know what it is until
you reel it up. So the only thing you have
to depend on is you your strength and your fortitude,
(21:33):
and you have got to pull it in and it's
all up to you. So it's a it's very self rewarding,
you know, and it's a great feeling to pull it
out the water. And that's why we do what we do.
You know, tournaments are amazing. We do that for the
thrill of it, but our foundation really is so that
we can impact lives of little kids that look like
(21:56):
us and just open them up to so many more opportunity.
I love it. There's a lot more to come after
the short break and we're back. You know. I actually
(22:19):
think teenagers could benefit so much from this too. I mean,
with all the issues they're dealing with right now, mental health, trauma, addiction,
global warming, civil unrest. You know, I've been saying for
years that I think there's a real mental health crisis
in our country for teenagers, and how amazing would it
be for them to have a place to go to
(22:41):
be competitive and to find their strength is such an
important thing, you know. I found clamming during COVID. But
you know, but it was a great coping thing for me,
and I think they need those sort of outdoor coping things.
But it's empowered too, and it's healthy, and it's something
(23:03):
else to focus on. Yeah, it is. It is healthy.
We have really noticed how children, even with addiction to devices,
when they're with us, it's a no device zone, and
so how they kind of don't want to release their
devices or turn them off. But after about thirty forty
five minutes there are yards away from their backpacks. They
(23:28):
are not thinking about phones, video games, consoles, none of that,
and they are playing with one another like we used
to back in the day, right outside, rolling around in
the sand, frolicking in the water. And it is just
a return to what's most important. And that was the
vision behind really creating the camps, because you know, we
(23:52):
see kids they deal with so much, whether it be depression,
a lot of kids are cutting themselves, a lot of
kids are coming out of the pandemic with emotional trauma
just from isolation. So we're really really glad that we
can be a part of healing. It's healing to us
to be out there. I mean just mentally, emotionally, it's
(24:15):
healing being out on the water perfectly. And I don't
know if you ladies remember, but we had a young
lady that was very apprehensive about engaging with the group.
I don't know if you ladies remember that, like I do,
remember socialization perspective. You know, she was like, I don't
have any friends, and you know, kind of nobody wanted
to play with me. And I think it was Tianna.
(24:37):
I think Tiana you were the one who kind of
really facilitated that. She took the young lady, she brought
her over to the other girls, and Tianna introduced her
to the other ladies, and like like Leslie was saying,
by the end of the camp, they were, you know,
playing together. You know, they're probably lifelong friends. Like remember
when we were in camp. What's really incredible with the
(24:58):
children is that I think for each of us, we're
able to identify parts of ourselves in these kids. So
for that particular young lady, I wanted to beat for
her what I needed when I was her age, and
just I saw something in her that really was an
opportunity to make connections that she could not do on
(25:19):
her own. In that moment and she just needed some nurturing.
Do you guys ever get any animal activists after you
I once posted a picture of me holding a big fish,
and people started talking about how inhumane I was, and
I was like, I ate it. I fed my family
with us. Yeah, we absolutely have, Okay, Yeah, yeah, we
do get some comments like that on social media. You know,
(25:41):
for the most part, it's it's positive, overwhelmingly positive. But
you know, you get those trolls out there and the
animal activists, they are serious and just like you said,
you know, like we picked charitable tournaments. You know, we're
about conservation. We always you know, when we bring in
meat fish and we divvat them up between our families.
(26:02):
We have fish tacos. You know, our husbands are waiting
at the docks for us to cook up our fish
that we went out and caught. And we really are
about stewardship of the environment and teaching the next generation,
which is why we started our foundation, you know, to
teach kids how to fish and how to boat and
(26:24):
you know, and about conservation. And we do have some news.
If I kid, you're giving me some breaking news, breaking news,
we saved it just for you. Yes, So um. So
our nonprofit is the Ebony Anglers Foundation, and we are
(26:45):
so excited to say that we've just partnered with the
National Parks Foundations and the National Parks Service and they
have awarded us a large grant to expand our programming
and our goal is to take the programming nation and wide.
We started off with a summer camp for kids here
in Durham, North Carolina, black girlish um about twenty twenty
(27:07):
five kids, Black girlsmission black boys. Yeah yeah. And and
the National Parks Service and Foundation they found us and
they you know, they pursued us and said, we want
to be a part of this. We love what you're
doing and we want to help, you know, and so
this is our pilot program and they have just been
so amazing and giving us the support that we need.
(27:30):
UM and so you know this this is huge for us,
huge for our foundation and our goals as UM as
a team to teach teach the littles. So we are
just so is amazing. Thank you. That is really great.
Thank you. Oh gosh, I just that is the best news.
And because I love the blueprint for your whole foundation
(27:54):
should be nationwide. I mean it should be global, but
let's start locally, but it should be nationwide. So congratulations,
thank you. So I can be part of it in
any way, Please tell me thank you. I'm serious. Oh absolutely,
we would love to invite you to come fishing with us.
I'm there, I am there, I am this is I
(28:17):
am not bullshitting you. Okay, lying there? Can you invite me?
I am gonna come. Wonderful Okay, yes, well you have
an open invitation, so just let us know when you're
You're available. I'm available, I'm available. Why don't you guys
come up to Long Island and come fishing with me?
How about that? There's some big, big fish in Long Island.
(28:39):
Let's do it. That would be awesome. So, you know,
my my podcast, Go Ask Ali, I ask people a
lot of questions, and so I like to give them
an opportunity at the end of the podcast to ask
me something. So all four of you can ask me
a question. You can go ask Ali, and let's start
(29:01):
with Bobby. Ask me anything, Bobby. You know, Al, I'm
so glad that you started with me because I have
a very important question to ask you. And my question is,
if this was a zombie apocalypse, what is your weapon
of choice if it's a But by the way, I
watch The Walking Dead and I'm watching The Last of Us,
so I think about this all the time. I don't
(29:24):
I don't believe in guns, but it seems to be
the only thing that they can use to kill the
zombies because you have to, you know, get them in
the head. So um, but I think some kind of
a big like a fish gutting knife would be you know,
because you can get him in the head with that,
you can kill the un zombie humans with it. So yeah,
pick cutting knife. She's given this some thought, Janna, how
(29:46):
can I answer her question? Okay, my question? So I
had several really great questions, but the one that I
landed on is what makes a good spy Um, a
poker face. A SPI will not let you know what
they're thinking or what they're doing. And I say that
(30:08):
as an empowered female, because you know, female spies are
always just using their sexuality. I think it's so much
more than that. But I think if you have a
poker face and they can't guess what you're thinking or doing,
or the fact that you've got a gun duct tape
to your thigh, or a good SI, I like it
(30:29):
is okay, giaf okay. So I am a beauty professional.
So I have a beauty question. To wax or to shave,
that is the question. What is your proper gia? I'm
I'm fairly hairless like that has never been an issue
for me. I shave okay. I have a Greek husband.
(30:51):
So my daughters are half Greek and they are dipped
in wax weekly. They are very good for me. Save
for my little Greek hairy daughters. It's wax everywhere everywhere.
You're not dipping the babies, are you. I'm not dipping them?
(31:15):
All right, leslie? What about your question? All right? So
here's my question. What was the worst advice you ever received? Oh?
Just stay with him, collaborate, listen. I am so happily
married right now. But you know, we all had our
(31:38):
bad choices. Our our frontal lobe hadn't developed. So you know,
I dated some bad boys and one of them was just,
you know, a bit of a drinker and a philanderer.
And I would say to my friends, well, he's cheated
on me so much. He's always drunk, and he never
pays for anything. And I would get nobody's so cute,
(32:00):
just stay with him. And I was like, that is
the worst advice now ever, I wish I got advice
like from my mother, like where sunscreen and you know,
have your own bank account. But this was the one
that stands out as the worst. Ebbony Anglers. I'm obsessed
with you. I love you. I am coming fishing with
(32:22):
you because I have it on tape, you asking me
and let's do it. I so look forward to it.
I love everything you do. Keep winning those competitions, keep
supporting our youth, and I'll see you down south soon.
So thank you, thank you, absolutely, thank you, thank you.
(32:45):
It's time for a short break. But when we come back,
we're going to jump off the boat, put our tushies
in the wet sand. Go from competition to meditation with
Melissa Clark, the New York Times food calmnist and cookbook author.
(33:08):
Welcome back to go ask Gali, and now it is
time for my clamming soul sister. Melissa Clark is an
award winning New York Times food columnist and cookbook author.
She has written forty five cookbooks, including the best selling
Dinner in French and the award winning Dinner Changing the
Game In twenty twelve, she joined the staff of the
New York Times, where she writes the highly popular food
(33:28):
section column A Good Appetite. Her latest book is Dinner
in One, a collection of complex tasting but easy making
one pot, one pan meals. She lives in Brooklyn with
her husband and daughter. So one morning in August, I believe,
my husband, George emailed me a article that you wrote
(33:53):
in the New York Times about clamming, and it spoke
to me like no other book article I've ever read,
because I discovered clamming and I got into it really
hardcore during COVID because we were out in Long Island,
and it saved my life because I would go out
there in my waiters with my rake, and I started
(34:17):
getting a few clams for the family, and then I
became so good at it that I started getting clams
for our neighbors, and then some food pantries, and I
just I became this incredibly. I don't know if there's
a god god in Greek mythology that clams, but I
became that person. So when I read your article, and
(34:39):
you too loved clamming and felt very meditative about it,
I thought, wow, I can't believe I married George. I
have just found my soulmate. So tell me about your
whole clamming experience. Well, first of all, I also found
clamming during the pandemic. I didn't grow up clamming. I
grew up in brook We didn't eat a lot of
(35:02):
clams though. I mean, we went to Lundy's, you know,
we did the whole Brooklyn thing. We went and we
had clams there, but we didn't actually go out and
get our own clams. It just wasn't a thing. We
went to fish stores and bought them. So I was
out on Shelter Island the first year of the pandemic
and I just got it in my head that I
wanted to clam because I love pasta with clam sauce.
I thought, well, they're right there, they're there. I don't
(35:25):
see them, I don't hear them, but I had faith.
It was crazy. It was like, I'm not religious, I'm
not a meditator, but somehow I knew that those clams
were there and they are waiting for me, and I
was going to get them. And I thought I'm gonna
I'm gonna try it. And I'd never done it, but
I asked my friends who live on Shelter Island we
were out visiting them, if they knew anything about clamming.
(35:45):
And they had a friend who was a clamming guru
and they went clamming all the time. So they brought
me along. I put my waiters on, I had my bucket.
They gave me a rake, and I got out there
and within fifteen minutes I had shed all that. I
was like, you know what, my toes need to be
in the sand. I like clamming with my toes. So
I it's summertime now, I assume it's warm out. Yeah.
(36:09):
Oh this was This was July or August actually, and
so every the water was warm. It was hot out.
I was in the sunshine and I was just like
doing a little shimmy dance on the sand because you know,
you do a little dance and your toes get in
the sand and you can find those clams with your
toes and you go down and you pull them up
and you're like, it's a rock. At the beginning, I
felt like Charlie Brown at Halloween. Yeah, you know, I
(36:31):
got a rough. I got a rock. But then I
started to my toes got sensitive and I could feel
the curve of the shell, and I was like, oh hah,
that's a play. I'm not a rock. And I started
to figure out what was what, and soon my bucket
began to fill and we caught one hundred and twenty
five clams that day between five of us, and we
made the biggest pasta with clamshus feast ever. And I
(36:54):
was ecstatic, right because here's the thing, Melissa. The first
part is there's something very primal, particularly during a global pandemic,
with the idea of I'm going to go out and
be a provider, like I'm going to actually go out
and get the food. So that was my first excitement
(37:15):
because I love my husband, but he is not a
forager of any kind. Then the next thing was and
I experienced a similar thing where I had a hard
time finding the clams. My first couple of times I
brought nothing back because I didn't know what I was doing.
And then when you start to find a few, whether
(37:36):
through your toes or with your rake or I use
my hands, it is like finding diamonds in a mind.
It is the most exciting thing. And then you sort
of hone your skill. Then you start to realize how to,
like you said, figure out what is a clam, what
is a rock? What is a broken shell? Exactly? Yeah,
(37:58):
and then you know your spot, right, you go back
and you're like, that's my spot. And then you see
someone else in your spotty really mad, even though you
know you don't live there and you're just visiting. Oh No.
I got extremely territorial about this area because I would
go to a place in the springs in Long Island,
which usually there was nobody ever there, which another part
of it I loved was it became very meditative for me.
(38:19):
It's like I like to go out there by myself, exactly,
and every once in a while I'd see usually this
like eighty year old guy with no shirt on, you know,
with his basket. But we had that very simple nod
of like you stay out of my area, I'll stay
out of your, you know, And it was very if
it's very calm. So then my clamming and I don't
(38:40):
know how far it went with you, and I'd like
to hear, but my clamming has gotten so out of
control that I do it in the winter and I
recently at the end of the summer in Long Island
they have the biggest clam contest that I tried to
win and just missed out. So then I had to
go look for the biggest clam and I found almost
(39:01):
a two pounder. You didn't. Yeah, So then it's like,
how do I find like the little ones for the
linguidy of Bengali, but that I need the big ones
to win the clam contest. So tell me about that
part of the experience. Okay, that you are a clamor
beyond me and will you take me clamming? Will that
ever happened? Yeah? I feel like now you could be
my new clamming guru. Because we don't have a place
(39:24):
on Long Island. The first summer we rented a place
on Shelter Island and we went clamming there. Then last
summer we went to Orient on the North Fork and
we rented a place there and I got I got
my legal clamming license. It isn't that a great feeling. Yes,
I went down to the town hall and they sold
me the seafood license and so I was very official,
and so I was out there every day and so
(39:47):
for me it was only two weeks. You know, it
was a week in summer twenty twenty one, and then
a week in summer twenty twenty two or two weeks then.
So I've all told three weeks of clambing experience. So
obviously I'm nowhere near where you are, but it really
is to me. I can't wait. I mean, I'm looking
for my house again this year. I'm like, I need
a house where I can go clamming because I need
(40:07):
the meditative experience and that is the most important part
of it. Yes, I love the clams. I don't want
to buy clams. It's funny because I think about it.
I'm like, I, like you said, I need to pull
them out of the sand myself. Yeah, for to me
as delicious and satisfying. So you made the Linguinian clams,
so I found that was my daughters their favorite food,
and I kept making Linguinian clams during COVID and then
(40:30):
they were like enough with the linguinan so then I
had to be creative. But there's nobody more creative with
food than you. So did you make other things besides absolutely? Yes, Okay,
let's hear the beginning with clam was like the first summer.
Then the second summer I branched out. I did clam chowder,
all kinds of clam chowder. So I did traditional clam
chowder with milk and potatoes. I did Manhattan clam chowder,
(40:52):
which I love with the tomatoes. I did a coconut
clam chowder with corn and coconut milk, which was so good.
It was almost a little bit a tie and inspired
by Thai food. There was a lemongrass and cilantro and
um lime juice and it was so good, um okay.
And then so I decided that really what I love
(41:12):
is I love raw clams. I love the crunch of
a raw clam like I love oysters. But I really
love raw clams. And so I decided I was going
to try to open them, and I can't do it.
I am brilliant at opening oysters. Give me two dozen,
three dozen oysters. I can open them in two seconds.
You're a shucker. I can't get the damn clams open.
They won't open like when they're when they when they
(41:33):
clam up, they do not want to open for me.
And they were good the ones you got when you
went clamming a Long Island, I mean the three that
I got open. Yeah, Oh you know what, I did
a lot. Also, we steamed them. So I steamed him
like muscles, garlic, white wine, red pepper flakes, and parsley,
and then a big bag yet and you just yes,
we did that. We did that too. It was delicious. Yeah. Um.
(41:56):
So here's the thing I'm wondering now if after my
clamming I kind of want to get an oyster bed now, Okay,
so that interests you at all? Yes? So, yes, I've
written about oysters. I wrote a big story about how
oyster farming is going to save us. I truly believe
in oyster farming. I belong to an oyster CSA where
(42:19):
I get oysters every other week. How do you do that?
I want to be part of that. It's amazing. They'll yeah,
they have delivery points. They're Maine or they're from all
actually from all over the Northeast. It started out in
just Maine and now it's in Massachusetts. They have some
from Canada. And it started out because the oyster industry
(42:39):
was having a huge problem during early COVID because all
the restaurants were closed and they couldn't sell their oysters.
So they started in oyster CSA to distribute directly to
people so that they could stay basically stay afloat. And
I've been a member ever since, and there's so much
easier to shut. Yeah, they're easier to shut. I don't
cook them. I don't like them cook. If I'm gonna
(43:00):
eat my I like my clams cooked or raw. I
like my oysters raw. They have to be raw. Yeah,
I don't like them any other way. What about muscles?
Can you can you go muscling? Like in Maine? It
Can we just go gather muscles on the beach somewhere?
I'm sure. Well, two of my best friends are from Maine.
They're main girls, and they say yes. And I've seen
a lot of muscle shells in Long Island, and I
(43:22):
know that you can go scaloping, So I don't see why.
I mean on my feeling is if I see a
trace of it, you got to be able to do it.
So if I see lots of muscle shells, there's got
to be muscles in there somewhere. The question is is
there enough of them to gather or are they protected?
So well, that's now that we have our license, our
seafood license, this is stuff we need to explore exactly.
But the big issue is will it be as meditative
(43:45):
as it is when we go clamming, because I used
to go crabbing, and crabbing I found meditative and I
did it with a long net off a dock, and
that was very meditative. And it also had like a
bit of battle, you know what I mean. There was
you felt a little bit like you were a game
of throwing trying to get the you know, lure them
(44:05):
in and then grab them up and then grab them up.
And that was exciting. But it's not necessarily meditative the
way the clamming is. So I'm curious if there's other
crustacean sports that will give us the kind of sedated,
you know, less anxious state that obviously Melissa and I
(44:26):
need to be in. Well, I think the thing about clamming,
and for me, the thing that really is attractive to
me is that I don't I can't have my phone
because I'm in the water. Yeah, so no phone, I'm offshore,
I'm away from my people. No one wants to go clamming.
Let me tell you, no one wants to go clamming
with me. I beg people to come clambing with me.
(44:46):
I know, I can't get people now, wait, let me
ask you this. How deep in the water have you gone?
What's the deepest? Um, I guess okay, So I only
go as far as I can take my arm and
reach down to pick up the clam without getting my
hair wet, okay, because I don't want to have to
shampoo every day, So fair enough. What about you? So
(45:06):
I same with me. I could get up to the
waist as long as I could take my arm down.
But there was a few times in the summer where
I got overly excited and I went under, oh like
literally submerged myself because I my hand felt a bevy
a host as you call it. But I felt a
(45:27):
lot of them, the convention of clams, convention of clams,
and I just I couldn't help myself, so I went under,
which was I had to. I had to sort of
pull myself together after that because if I felt a
little aggressive and slightly crazy. But usually it's I need
to just reach down as far as my hand can go. Yeah, exactly. Um,
I mean if I time it right with the tides,
(45:49):
there's times when I can go and I'm just up
to my ankles right. Well, No, I always go low tide. Yeah,
because it's just not worth it. So I always go
low tide, and there's been time times where it's been
so low that I'm not even in water there. It's
just like muddy mushy, and I can feel down with
my hands and pull them up, which I like to
(46:09):
do as well. I mean, they're all forms of clamming,
and I love them all equally. Have you ever done
razor clams? No, because I don't like them as much.
I like it. They're not as thick and chewy as
a regular cohg. Yes, little neck carrystone co hogs. I
(46:30):
love them all too. I mean, and I'm a cape
cod girl, so I love steamers. You know steamers are funny. Okay,
so I love steamers too. I think I love them
because of the melted butter. I think, well, of course.
But given a choice between a little neck and a steamer,
I'm gonna eat the little neck. Oh that's interesting, I'll
eat the steamer. You'll eat the steamer. Yeah. And I
love fried clams, fried steamers, ipswich, fried clams, fried clams amazing,
(46:55):
but they have to be real clams. I don't like
the clamstrips. I don't like it when they give you
the fried clam strips and pretend they're clams. I like
the clam bellies. Oh yeah, you have to have the
clam bellies you can. Otherwise it's just fried dough, you know,
like that. I don't even know what. I think they're squid.
I think they lie. I think they're not. It's fried dough.
It's fried dough. It's not even anything. Do you potentially think, Melissy,
that you could write a cookbook that was just all
(47:16):
clam based recipes of all the different clams, or would
that end up at the Strand bookstore? Well, it depends.
I think that if um, if I had enough storytelling
behind it, you know, like all, get all the clamming
personalities out there, like you and whoever, and all the
recipes right, and get everybody's recipes and everybody's clam stories,
(47:37):
and and maybe if it were a clamming how to
meditation wellness guide crossed with cookbook, see, I think that
would work. And then I think if you threw in
a menopause group that would go clamming together, oh my god,
and you got Oprah to endorse it, I think then
(47:59):
you get your pollar. So when you're out there and
you get a hot flash, no problem, You're just like, oh,
I'm just gonna spend right down and splash myself off. Exactly.
I feel like there is a thread between clamming, menopause,
and meditation that I'm going to figure out and I'm
going to pull you on board as one of the
members of the new of my Foundation. I am one
(48:19):
hundred percent there. You know another thing, though, I think
that it might actually be true, I do sleep better
when I clam, Like I sleep better, you know. Oh yeah,
It's like when I'm out there and then I come in.
I mean, maybe it's just the physical exertion of it.
Maybe it's because I only clam when I'm on vacation,
but I sleep so much better. Of course, you're you're
exerting muscles that you probably don't use that much. I
(48:41):
don't care if you go to soul cycle. You know,
some of the stuff you do for clamming is not typical.
And yeah, that reaching down you're in the water, yea yeah,
and the water is very soothing. And also I'm bringing
it back to the caveman thing, you know what I mean,
you foraged. That's exhausting. You know, you go you hunt,
(49:03):
you gather, and then you sleep. That's what we used
to do, and that's all we used to do as
human beings. So you know, I've gone mushrooming. I've gone
foraging in the woods. I have done that, but it's
not like clamming. No, it's not. And I'm scared of
mushrooming because I'm afraid I'm going to pick the wrong
mushroom and I'm going to have a different experience. I've
only gone mushrooming where it was like morals, where you
(49:26):
really knew right like there's no mistaking them, there's no doubt,
and you're like, oh, okay, that is a patch of
morals and I know exactly what they are, and all
these other mushrooms around here are just going to stay
right in the ground. Yeah, because I don't need to
go on some acid trip and think I'm Bob Dylan
for the rest of my life. No, don't need any
phantom thread, no experiences. What about truffle hunting? Have you
(49:46):
ever done that? I have done that, But you know
the thing about truffle hunting is it's ninety nine percent
when they bring people like me and you out there staged,
it's all staged, they bury the truffle totally. Oh okay,
so forget it. Forget It's not if they dumped a
bunch of clams in a baby pool and asked us
to go. Okay, all right, again, nothing compares to clamming.
(50:07):
There is. It's just being out in the water by ourself.
And even when you go with someone, I mean a
few times I've dragged my poor family out with me.
You're kind as far away and the water absorbs the
sound and you can't really hear what they're saying. Yeah,
which is kind of a good thing. No, exactly, because
then you've got companionship. Like if you and I would clamming,
we would be out there, we'd both have our buckets,
(50:27):
we'd like say hi, maybe we'd like compare hot flashes.
Then we'd do our clamming thing and we wouldn't even
talk to each other, except if we caught like a
big one, we'd be like yeah, or you know, we'd
show our buckets occasionally and then we'd be so happy,
and then we would come in and we'd make lunch. Yeah,
and that's where all the talking happens, exactly, yea. And
I mean, another thing that makes it meditative is because
(50:48):
you are so in the moment, right, you don't have
your phone, You're not thinking about work. All you're thinking
about is the sensation of can I feel the clam?
Can I feel the clam? Can I feel? And there
is no other time that I'm as the moment as that, right,
And so think about when we were in a global pandemic.
There was so much anxiety at that point that clamming
(51:09):
to me was meditative because I just focused on the
one task at hand and it was incredibly relaxing not
to be reading the paper and freaking out or listening
to my husband doing ABC news briefs down in the
dining room so zoom. Yeah. So that to me, it
was on all levels meditative because you focused on the
(51:31):
one thing. Yeah. All right, So I'm going the summer.
Are you going to come with me? I am all right,
I'm gonna be there. We're gonna clam we're gonna cook,
and then we're gonna put it on our instagrams and
people are gonna go, oh, what about that? Those girls
were talking about clamming, and they went and they did it,
and there they are and there's the recipe, and everyone
else can go clamming too. You know, I don't know
if people like clams as much as you and I do. Though,
(51:53):
I feel like people don't understand clams. They just don't know.
So we are going to take them by the hand
and the rake, and we're going to show them exactly. Hey,
do I get to ask you the question? Yes? Oh
my god, I was again so excited about finding a
clambing partner. You can ask me anything you want. The
(52:14):
Wasp Cookbook, Yes, you wrote that. I wrote that a
million years ago. And it is not a real cookbook
in that I don't want people to actually make their recipes.
It is a social commentary on my people because I
grew up eating deviled eggs and prune whip and chipped
(52:35):
cream beef on toast, and I didn't realize that there
was a whole culinary world out there. Things like garlic
existed and spices, and so that's what got me interested
in cooking. Is there? Okay? So if I was going
to make one recipe from your Wasp cookbook, which I
have ordered, oh my gosh, what is the recipe from
(52:57):
your Wasp Cookbook that I should make? Well, I mean,
I have to say deviled eggs or a staple, and uh,
you know, I say in the book that there's a
fine line between white trash cooking and wasp cooking. There's
a lot of mayonnaise with both. But the deviled eggs
and then bourbon balls, I call them Grandpa's bourbon balls. Oh,
(53:19):
bourbon balls balls, So that would be it. I mean,
prune a whip sounds disgusting, but it really tastes good.
It's just basically whipped cream and prune juice, which is
actually delicious. But everything else, I would enjoy the book
for its social commentary unless it's recipes. Okay, well, I'm
very excited to get it. I'm going to make the
(53:39):
bourbon balls because I do love them, and make deviled eggs,
and then you and I are gonna go clambing. It's
gonna be awesome. I can't wait. Thank you, Thanks, I'm excited.
Oh don't think I'm not going to be deep sea
fishing with the Ebony Anglers or clamming with Melissa Clark
this summer, because I am. So you just be checking
(54:02):
my Instagram because you're going to see a lot of
pictures of me bringing in a marlin or chucking a
bunch of co hogs. Thank you for listening to Go
ask Alli. The ebbty Anglers team is on Instagram and
Facebook at ebboty Anglers and its website is super easy
ebbedy anglers dot com and be sure to check out
Melissa Clark's New York Times food section column a good Appetite.
(54:24):
You can also keep up with her on Instagram at
clark Bar for more info and what you heard on
this amusing episode. Check out our show notes. Okay, so
what about the Webby Award nomination. It's for the best
individual interview talk show episode and we are beyond excited.
It's a People's Choice awards, so our people need to
vote for us, and that is you. So please go vote.
(54:46):
I've done it and it's super easy and the link
is in their show notes. Or you can go to
the Real Alley Wentworth Instagram and click on my bio. Okay,
be sure to subscribe, rate and review Go ask Alli
and follow me on social media on Instagram at the
Real Wentworth. Now listen, we're coming to the end of
Go ask Alli's third season, but keep those questions and
suggestions coming in because I'd love to hear from you.
(55:08):
And there's a bunch of ways you can do it.
You can call or text me at three two three
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Ask Aali podcast at gmail dot com. And if you
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Ask Alli. Go Ask Gali is a production of Shondaland
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