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January 16, 2023 62 min

Amy Choi and Rebecca Lehrer are used to exploring complexities. As hosts of the podcast The Mash-up Americans, they cover all sorts of complex intersections of identity and culture. In this episode of Here After, they join me to talk about Mashup Americans’ newest series, Grief, Collected. 


In this episode we cover: 


  • Amy’s brilliant grief avoidance/childbirth analogy & what we need in order to come out of our dark little nests into the light of grief
  • The real nuance in whether most people are over the “acute phase” of grief after one year
  • Will listening to “Ripple” by the Grateful Dead elicit grief bursts from everyone, or is it just us? 
  • Why NOT grieving was the right move for people fleeing wars and political unrest 
  • What Amy and Rebecca learned - about grief, about American culture, and about themselves - in producing their show, Grief, Collected (spoiler: they learned a lot!) 
  • Why telling the truth about grief - without trying to resolve it - is the best hope we have for the future


Content note: mention of pregnancy and childbirth


Notable quotes: 


“One of those bummers is you can't exercise once, and then you're done exercising. It’s like - it f*cking sucks that you just have to keep doing it. And I think that's the thing with grief - you can't mourn something once and then be like, okay, well, now, I'm done with the grief portion of my life.” - Rebecca Lehrer


“NOT grieving is actually a survival strategy.” - Amy Choi

About our guests:

Amy Choi is co-founder and editorial director of The Mash-Up Americans. A Korean-American married to a Colombian-Mexican-American, she is mom to two feisty Korombexican-Americans: in other words, The Future of America. She specializes in getting people to tell stories they never expected to share. 


Rebecca Lehrer is the co-founder and CEO of The Mash-Up Americans. She’s spent 18+ years doing strategy, marketing, and audience development in media, arts, and culture. Her work focuses on the shared cultural experiences that bring people together, and re-centering stories on voices you don’t usually hear.

Additional resources


Check out the entire Grief, Collected series at and The Mash-Up Americans at

For more on historical responses to loss, and ways to change the entire culture, personally and collectively, check out It’s OK That You’re Not OK wherever you get your books

Get in touch:


Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Here After with Megan Devine. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, send in your questions, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 


Have a question, comment, or a topic you’d like us to cover? call us at (323) 643-3768 or visit


For more information, including clinical training and consulting, visit us at


For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on IG, FB, TW, and @hereafterpod on TT


Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s Okay That You're Not Okay and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

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