December 9, 2023 • 36 mins
Dr. Ed Ashby, a legend in the archery hunting community for dedicating more than 27 years to the study of arrow performance and broadhead lethality on six continents. Thanks to Dr. Ashby and his crew, his Natal Study helped legalize archery hunting in South Africa. Many sub-Saharan countries followed suit. The Natal Study was the definitive document used to successfully lobby for bowhunting legalization.
Dr. Ashby is also the co-founder of the Ashby Bowhunting Foundation, the leading global authority on arrow and broadhead lethality.
Dr. Ashby is also the co-founder of the Ashby Bowhunting Foundation, the leading global authority on arrow and broadhead lethality.
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(00:01):
Tradition, conservation, family, theodors. It matters to you, it
matters to us. This is HuntingMatters presented by Houston Safari Club Foundation.
Here's Joe Bitar. Good morning andwelcome back to Hunting Matters on KPRC nine
(00:22):
fifty. This is your host,Joe b Tar, And I'm running around.
Ramon Roubles is over there making acup of coffee and I'm just doing
my thing. It's okay, youcan make one for yourself too. Well,
you're the one that want at Irishcream in it, so I had
to go find that that food foodcoffee. Good Saturday morning to you.
It is good Saday Saturday morning toyou as well. I sometimes joke and
(00:44):
call you doctor b Tar, butI feel kind of weird doing it because
we actually have a doctor on thisweek for those listening, I'm not a
real doctor. I just played onTV and I slept at a holiday and
last night, so no, wehave a real doctor on this week.
But what are you doing? Ijust printed the show PRIP you sent.
Why is it twelve pages? Wellyou're going to find out who were we
talking? Like two or three hours? Actually to give this man, just
(01:07):
do this man Justice. But yeah, well we're going to get into that,
but let's talk a little bit aboutHouston Spark Club Foundation before we get
get deep into that. Here itis, man, we's coming at it.
It's coming. It's convention season time. You know what I spent yesterday
all day long, dripping all overTexas well my world part Spring Magnolia Conroe.
That that area dropping off flyers savethe date flyers. So if you're
(01:32):
you're in a local gun shop,tax at hermos meat processing market and they
don't have them on the counter,you sent me an email at info at
we give dot org and tell mewhere I need to drop some off.
Because we're spreading the word. Theconvention is coming up. That is in
full focus for US January nineteenth throughthe twenty first at the Woodlands Waterway Marriott
Hotel and Convention Center. That isa beautiful hotel. We stay there all
(01:55):
the time, we go to theconcerts out there. It's a beautiful hotel.
It's a great hotel. There's alot of stuff to do around there.
But the expo will be there allthe banquets at night, and the
Ladies Lunch and the Gazelle's Lunch willbe there on Saturday. So go to
the website. Go to we huntwe give dot org, click on the
convention drop down buttons, go tothe attendee page. You can find out
everything you need to know about theannual Houston Safari Club Foundation Convention. You
(02:17):
can get your expo haul tickets thereor you can buy them at the door.
They're only ten bucks. You canget your banquet tickets online right now,
and the banquet tickets, Trust me, you want to get your banquet
tickets because we've got some fantastic liveauction items. We've got some people coming
in town, some new announcements forthose of you who know the outdoor world,
especially the archery world. Probably nogentleman by the name of Tom Miranda.
(02:38):
Tom Miranda's going to be there.We've got a lot of good surprises,
a lot of great things. Wegot free seminars this year with various
experts and various fields dealing with huntingand how to book hunts and firearms and
all that sort of thing. Representativefrom actually from John Rigby Company is going
to be there talking about the Rigbyline and its heritage. What else.
(02:58):
The comedian William Lee Martin's going tobe their Saturday night. Friday night,
we got Sundance head who won thevoice. Yeah, that's cool. One
season. Uh so there's there's stuffgoing on all weekend long. Do you
have any fire breathers? No,not this year, but we do have
Indigenous people's dancers actually on Saturday forthe Ladies Gazills lunch and yeah, wow,
so they may breathe fire. Idon't know. I haven't seen that
(03:20):
yet. They didn't ask me myopinion, so, but you never know
what's going to happen it. He'svery convention the go to we help we
gift dot org. Get your expotickets, get your banquet tickets. I
think ramon right now, we're expectingfive hundred plus for the banquet on Saturday
night, probably four hundred three.They did the tasting today without Meursday day
at the hotel course, I metwith the av team and they said,
(03:40):
why don't you stay for everything butthe fun stuff? Yeah, and I'm
like, well, I already gotstuff booked. Well So and So backed
out he had the flu and I'mlike, now you tell me, so
I could have been I could havebeen eating for the last three hours.
But now the food is always goodat the marry out. The chef out
there does a great job. SoGota we help, We give dot org.
Check it out and get your ticketsand come out to the banquets and
to the expo and join us.Are a great weekend of celebration of hunting
(04:01):
and conservation. All right, ourguest today, I'm a little bit nervous
about I know of the man andthe legend. I've never spoken to him
firstly before, but folks, joiningus today is doctor ed Ashby. Doctor
Ashby is a legend, and Ilove bow hunting. I loved to bow
hunt, and I was actually introducedto him through a mutual friend, mister
Rob Nielsen, who is with theAshby Bow Hunting Foundation. But doctor Ashby
(04:24):
is a legend in the archery huntingcommunity. He's dedicated twenty seven thirty plus
years to the study of air performanceand broadhead lethality, which are cool words
unto themselves over you know, sixcontents, not just here in South Texas.
So doctor Ashby, thank you somuch for joining us today. My
pleasure. So we're mooting. Youand I were talking attle bit out offline.
(04:45):
Where's your home home base of operations? Well, I'm a little bit
out of Rock Springs, sort ofsouth southwest Texas. Okay, okay,
cool, cool, So we're goingto get in. There's just like Ramon
and I were saying before, there'sa there's a ton of things to talk
about. We're not going to covereverything today in our hour, but uh,
(05:05):
there's a lot of things I kindof want to pick your brain about.
And uh, you know, Iwas reviewing the website, folks.
The website is ashby Bowhunting dot orgto check out the ashby uh the bow
Hunting Foundation. But one of thethings that just jumped out right off the
page to me was there's a quotein there for you. It says the
goal of every bow hunter should beto achieve the most penetration possible on an
(05:26):
animal with the intent of a fullpass through. And I think that's that's
kind of like, would you saythat's the first commandment of bow hunting?
Absolutely, it's kind of what Ihad in mind talk about today. So
so let's uh, let's let's talk. We got about what a minute and
a half left before we go intothe break. But is that a is
that just from years of of doingwhat you do in bow hunting and trying
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various methods and things like that.Or is that was that just a revelation
or something that just came to evolve. Well, it's all of that.
It's sort of a thing that evolved. There's a lot of stuff that come
up from other forces, not justerrors. It deals with everything. I've
(06:10):
got some quotes here i'll give youafter a while from the FBI's handgun penetration
Testing report that comes up with thesame conclusion penetration's paramount, you know.
And I think I think a lotof bow hunters, especially novices or people
are just getting into it, don'tunderstand the importance of the lethality standpoint,
(06:32):
that sort of thing. And Iwant to really do a deep dive on
that with you today and talking aboutaerowaits and broadheadways, things that were all
new to me just a few yearsago. So folks, stick with us.
We're going to be talking to datadoctor ed Ashby. Check out their
website at Ashby bow Hunting dot orgto see all there is to know about
the Ashby Bow Hunting Foundation. Goingto take a quick break here on Honey
Matters KPRC nine to fifty. TheHouston Saphari Club Foundation is a five oh
(07:00):
one C three nonprofit organization that supportsthe future of hunting and conservation. Wildlife
and habitat conservation, youth education andoutdoor experiences, scholarships, and anti poaching
efforts are just a few of theprograms supported by this organization. Monthly events,
an annual convention, award winning publications, networking opportunities, and valuable resources
for hunting knowledge are just a fewof the benefits of being a member of
(07:21):
Houston spar Club Foundation. If you'researching for a group of people dedicated to
protecting the future of hunting, lookno further. Join Houston Spari Club Foundation
today at we huntwe Give dot orgor call seven one three six two three
eight eight four four consult not ofany down all the moment. Then you're
(07:55):
showing to be a change a weedon the reed, I'm a man.
Welcome back to Honeymaters and KPRC ninefifty. This is Joe Bitar. I
(08:18):
am Ramon Robless. We are honoredto be joined today by doctor ed Ashby.
Doctor Ashby, thank you once againfor joining us. Well. Couldn't
be happy to talk to you.Always will talk to boat hunters. Well,
doctor, I got a question foryou. If you had another life
and you are a rock and rollstar, what part of the band would
you want to be And would youwant to be the drummer, the guitar
player, the lead singer? Well, my voice, I'm definitely there'll be
(08:39):
the lead singer. Okay, uh, I probably want to be something noise.
You like the drama, all right? Yeah. I always picture myself
as the guitar player because they're theones that are flamboyant and out there.
And you know, but you couldso so far you're in my band.
I was gonna say you probably pickeddrummer too because of the sticks. Yeah,
(09:00):
oh yeah, it's our sick instrength. Always got one of his
hands. So, folks, beforewe jumped into the break there, we
were talking about Aaron Broadhead lethality andyou know, doctor Ashby the the statement
the intent of full pass through,I'm gonna say probably there's a lot of
bow hunters out there that have neveror has very seldom had the experience of
(09:22):
full pass through on an animal.Bow hunting. I mean we you know,
we make a lot of mistakes asbow hunters and try to cut corners
that sort of thing. So walkus through that principle if you would.
Well, one of the important thingsis that in our original the call study,
we are the only people ever Ithink, that have had the opportunity
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to look at in detail at nonlethal ERA hits because we were backed up
with a rifle shooter and anytime ahint looked like it might be non lethal,
they were put down with a rifleshot to the air location and we
had access to two veterinarians to dothe dissection and tell us what happened.
(10:07):
And the number one cause of anon legal hit with an ERA, you
know, over seventy percent of thecases of non legal hits was lack of
adequate penetration. So penetration is themost important thing. And I mentioned to
you earlier I was going to readyou a little quote from the FBI's handgun
(10:31):
Penetration Testing Report, and I wasread a couple of small parts of it.
One was the critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the
large bloodberry organs. Any bullet whichwill not penetrate through vital organs from and
this is important, from less thanoptimal angles is not accepted. And that's
(10:56):
from Agent Eurypatrick of the FBI.So we're not the only people to come
up with this thing of penetration iswhat you must have. It is one
of those things that boat hunters don'tthink about. And if you look at
the multitudes of YouTube videos of boathunting, you'll see people shooting these high
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drawway bows, you know, seventypounds or more not getting passed throughs on
white tailed deer. That is justabsolutely appalling. Now, getting the air
to pass through gives you a lotof advantage, even on a perfect purpose
place shop. If you can geta hole out both sides of the chest
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gavity and you've gone through the lungs, you will let air into the chest
gavity and that's going to create anewmore thorax and the animal is going to
die very very quickly. Now,the Royal Veterinary Surgeons in England, and
why they did it, I'm notsure, but they had a study with
(12:09):
errors and determined that the blood losswas greatly impeded when the airshaft remained within
the womb, and they were lookingat it from the point of if someone
was shot with an error, andthey caution that the error still in do
you not remove the ERA because itis impeding the loss of blood? You
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know, wait till they're in asituation where you can deal with the increased
bleeding that's going to be created whenyou remove that. And if you look
at any training for paramedics today withany embodied object, they caution, doctor,
remove it until you know you havethe patient in a location where you
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can deal with the increase in bleedingthat's going to occur when you remove that
embody embedded up. And it's justan absolute medical fact. And you know,
most boat hunters realize that most ofyour animals are want to die from
blood loss, and rapid blood lossis what you want. So in order
to get the rapid blood loss thatyou want, even if you ever get
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the log is to have the airpassed completely through. So if the air
chef is not in the wound,applying pressure againstitusues, which is inceeding the
loss of blood. So it hasa very sound medical basis of why you
want to get that pass through shot. Now, next problem becomes how do
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we get that pass through shot whenthings go long? And that means that
you need an ERA this caseable ofperforming. You know, when things don't
go like they're supposed to. Andthere's a couple of good quotes on that
way back from the real boat huntinglegend Fred Baer in nineteen forty three and
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Ye Sylvan Arts. He wrote,a deer can be killed with almost any
combination if no heavy bones are struck. But what is needed is something that
will crash through where the going istough. And that other bowl hunting legend,
Howard Hill wrote in Hunting the HardWay, all else being equal,
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penetration is the name of the gamepretty much sums it up, and our
testing through the years has verified that. And what we have worked for is
finding the error of systems, andI'm to call you a system everything and
the broadheads then that performed when thegoing gets tough, that will crash through
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when those heavy bones are struck,and still give you a pass through shot,
or atleast the highest likelihood of apass through shot. And that's what
we have strived for, what wecontinue to strive for today. And we
have various systems now that will morethan triple the penetration of the typical era
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being used today. So so forthe for the just, for the average
hound, you know, we gointo an archer shop, or we go
to a sporting at store and wesee these arrows that are you know,
set up in packs and things likethat. Where do we even begin to
know what's right or what's wrong?Do we need to go to an archer
shop? Do we know? Howdo we find out? You know?
Because there's so much out there,you need to go to Ashby goo hunting
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dot org and read all that volume, hundreds of pages of studies sometime in
the all cities and then digest atall. It is not easy reading,
I'll give you that, but learningthings is never an easy process. Are
one thing that you fail to mentionat yourgoing convention. They can go sit
(15:52):
in on the presentation that Rob Neilsonis given there. That's right, that's
right, mister good starting place.Yep, that's a great that's a great
plug. I appreciate you reminding meabout that. Yeah. Rob Nielsen from
the Ashby Bell Hunting Foundation will beproviding a free seminar at convention. We're
gonna take a quick break here.Our guest is doctor Ed Ashby. Will
be back after the break on huntingmatters KPRC nine fifty. Don't let your
(16:18):
baby, go to me. Cupid, draw back your ball and let your
Arab bool speak to my lover's heartfor me. For me, Cupid,
(16:45):
please hear my cry and let youArab fly. Sweet boys, my lovers,
money man before AI, before autotune, I mean just hey,
can you sing? Yeah? Whatdo you want me to put down?
Yeah? And they couldn't go backand overdub like they do now. And
(17:07):
uh, it was we got tostart and we got to end it.
Yeah. That multi track system wasn'teven not then an idea at that time.
Yeah, this is very nice.Welcome back to Honeymatters. Simone and
I are reminiscing over the oldies,big good old Get off my grass,
you be punk? Hey, heyyou kids, where's my golf cart?
Welcome back to Honey Matters KPRC ninefifty. This is Joe Peta am Ramon
(17:29):
Roeblisz. We're joined again today bydoctor ed Ashby Doctor Ashby. We last
segment we were talking and you glossedover it, so I'm going to go
back and address it. The theTall Study, I mean, the the
Tall Studies was groundbreaking for many manyreasons. Can you give our listeners for
those who don't know a little bitof overview of what it is and why
it was so important. Well,the the Tall study was conducted by the
(17:52):
Tall Parks Board. They wanted tolook at the potential of legalizing boat hunting
in South Africa and the Tall Provinceof South Africa just from the economic standpoint
of it would bring in more hunters, more money, that type of thing,
but they wanted to make sure thatit would effect even see you know,
(18:15):
a different equipment perform and so forthand in and aroundabout. Ways of
so long story, I got involvedand that was invited to participate. But
during that period of time, Ishot to White Rhino with bowling Era and
then went over to mcousie Park priorto them doing their annual call because they
(18:37):
do have to call a large numberof animals to keep the animal population in
check with the available habitat. Andso we went in before the rifle call
and were encouraged to shoot it animalsfrom any any animal we thought we could
hit, because they wanted to lookat what happened with the ineffective hits.
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The hits the word non lethal,and that's why we were backed up with
the rifles in that whole scenario Iwas talking about, but I shot.
I think it was one hundred andfifty four animals that I killed during that
one month time, plus the animalsthat were non legal hits. And there
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was also some testing done by TonyTompkinson was Tall park Board. He used
an eighty pound compound. I usedmy ninety four pound long boat. Anyway,
the whole thing was we got allthis information, we submitted it to
the Tall Part Board and they legalizedbow hunting. Now, up till that
(19:45):
time, the only places you couldbow hunt in Africa were the very few
countries that were silent on ways andmeans. Everywhere bow hunting was mentioned in
any game law anywhere in Africa itwas prohibited up to that point. So
Natall was the first place to havean affirmity bow hunting law. And once
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they did it, within twelve monthsit spread to all the other provinces which
are like the states of South Africa, and within about two and a half
to three years it has spread toall the countries in Southern Africa that had
any kind of ways and means.Have to exhibit mosallm Beaque which still doesn't
(20:29):
have a ways and means law.So was it did result in the affirmitive
legalization of bow hunting throughout Africa.It was the hallmark state that legalized African
bow hunting. And how many yearsago did death study take place? We
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did the testing in nineteen nineteen eightyfour, nineteen eighty five, and it
was legalized in the end of eightyfive. Got it. Got it?
So you know there there's like yousaid, there is a ton a ton
of information on the website and thestudies and the scientific data and that sort
of thing that we don't really havethe time to dive in today, but
(21:10):
I do encourage people to go readthose studies. Doctor a question here,
and we're talking penetration and obviously youknow, a deep dive. But did
we ever consider maybe just adding explosivetips tarros and not worrying about penetration.
Well, you know, Uh,Mississippi notably legalized the thing called the pod
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back I think it was in theeighties, which was a poison era that
was that was allowed to be used. It was a little rubber container that
was right behind the broadhead that wouldunwrap as the air passed through. And
uh, this rup to poison intothe end of the bloodstream so that he
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weren't in the body. The penetratebeyond the bald head would be lethal.
Uh. You know, that typeof thing has been has been used,
but it sort of fell out offavor for a number of reasons, but
mostly with concerns over you know,having the poison in the in the tissues
and things like that. Even thoughit was in a mounset, you know,
(22:18):
once in the tissue it was anon lethal dose. If you ate
the meat, you were still introducinga toxic into your body, right right.
You know a lot of times Icame to be hunting later in life
or moon and you know it wasalways you got to get the quiet as
fast as every year there's a quieter, faster bow. There's lighter airs and
that sort of thing. And uh, doctor Ashbury, I think you can
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speak to this better than anybody,you know when you first start out of
all your buddies who are not aseducated as the experience as you guys are.
Well, oh, you need toget there really light eras with with
the mechanical broad heads and the lightbroad heads. You want to get really
really fast. And I want youto go ahead and to spell that that
myth right now in the air well, it is a myth. The light
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fast eras people look at it andsay, oh, you know that gives
you advantage of being able to havea flatter trajectory and hit the animal at
longer ranges. Your object isn't ahit. Your object is to kill the
animal as humanly as possible. Andthese lfe fast eras do not do that.
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There's absolutely no question of it.And you know, people need to
accept the fact that bow hunting isby nature and was intended to be a
closer rage for it, you know. And anytime I hear this one of
my pet peeves. I see allthese people now scouting, these sixty on
up the hundred yards plus shots withthem by one era, and they say,
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well, out west, you know, our longer hour shooting is at
longer distances. And you know,anytime they come up with these things like
that, I've hunted a lot inthe West and a lot in the tundrunner,
the open planes all around the world. I've never had to take long
shots like that. My simple answerto them is I don't have to take
(24:04):
those. I'm a better hunter thanthat. You know, learn some hunting
skills. You know, learn toget close to your animal, learn to
make the lethal hits, and useequipment that will perform after the hit.
They're concerned with hitting the animal.I'm concerned with killing the animal. I'm
(24:25):
concerned from what happens with that erafrom the time it hits the animal till
it stops moving. And I hopethat's in the ground or in a tree
or something on the other side ofthat animal, right, right, Yeah,
and you know it's it's you're right. I think that's that's some of
the one of the things for mepersonally that drew me to bow hunting was
not only oh, here's something newand cool to do, but also you've
(24:47):
got to be smarter, you gotto be more patient, you got to
get closer to the animal. It'smore challenging you you have to use pretty
much all of the all the giftsthat you have as far as when you
become a consistent effective boat absolutely,and you know, the key word is
bow hunter. You have to bea hunter, not a boat shooter.
(25:08):
Right. So much of the inphasistoday has become only bow shooter, not
the bowl hunter. And that's anotherthing I think is, you know,
we have a wonderful opportunity, awonderful media out there with all these things
like YouTube to teach bow hunting skills, but you see very very little of
(25:30):
that. Everything you see is somepromotional hunter pushing some product, and oftenest
products that in reality do not perform. Well, you know, they're being
they're big paid to push these productsand our benefiting financially somehow from it,
either free equipment, but in alot of cases it is actually uh financially
(25:55):
supporting them. Uh. So youknow the worst source you can go to
for him information is probably YouTube,right, right? Are similar our similar
social media? Yeah, because there'sso much push and they have the money
to do these very slick videos,you know, high quality, but it's
(26:18):
all advertising. It's it's not givingyou the facts without boat honey. Yeah,
and that's unfortunate. I mean,it just takes a takes a couple
of time to times a wounded animalto get discouraged to not want to go
bow hunting again or whatever. Butit's uh, we're gonna take There's nothing
worse than that sick feeling of woundingan animal and absolutely yeah, you're absolutely
(26:40):
right. Gonna take a quick breakhere before our final segment Honeymatter's KPRC nine
to fifty are being on wars.I still feel twenty five moles to the
(27:07):
Tina. I still raise a littlekne We're the moys, hockey toons and
pretty women. Lord, I'm stillright there with them singing about the crackdown
and the noise. Welcome back toHoney Matters on KPRC nine fifties to your
(27:32):
host, Joe B. Tarry.I am Ramon Roebliss. Joined today by
doctor ed Ashby. Doctor Ashby isalso known as one of the founders of
the Ashby bow Hunting Foundation. Checkout Ashby bow hunting dot org. That's
ish a s h b Y bowHunting dot org. Doctor Ashby, thanks
once again for joining us. Ohmy pleasure. One of the things you
always, uh, you always telltis that you should always find the heaviest
(27:53):
or use the heaviest air possible thathas the trajectory that you still find acceptable.
How how do you how do youI know there's a lot of studies
and things on the websites and thingslike that, but how how did you
come to that? How would youadvise people to come to that realization where
they're using the heavies setup that theycan use, but it's still acceptable.
Well, you know, it's clearphysics that the you know, the heavier
(28:18):
object takes longer to stop, it'sgoing to penetrate deeper. Uh. And
most people understand that because you know, a heavier vehicle takes longer to stop.
Uh. So so they get theconcept of that. Uh. What
they've got to balance that with isthat trajectory they can live with. Uh.
(28:38):
You know, I I know ofone very successful bowt hunter uh that
for years, you solid fiberglass fisheras hunt with. You know, that's
over two thousand right arrowway. Uh. That was abjectory I wasn't even willing
to live with. Uh. Soyou have to balance the very physics of
(29:02):
error performance against what what will workfor me the way I hunt. And
again you've got to have that huntingmindset to do it. You're not out
to make a hit, You're outto make a killing shot. And what
distance can I do that within myhunting skills? And if you can't get
(29:25):
close enough to use an adequate errowway, then you need to work on
your hunting skills, not your shootingskills. Right. Yeah, absolutely,
I agree with you one hundred percent. You know the thing, the thing
that you know, it's on yourwebsite. But I think I want to
point out as you guys have doneall these studies over the years and publish
all these studies and you don't chargeanybody for I mean you, and most
(29:47):
importantly, you're not beholden to anymanufacturer. You guys don't accept uh,
you know, you don't accept fundingsomething total funding from manufacturers, which I
think is very very commenable, veryhonorable, because that allows you to not
only conduct but also to produce thesestudies on a non biased, you know,
non biased from a non biased standpoint, which I think is phenomenal.
(30:07):
There's no agenda here, it's justwe're just trying to teach people how to
be better and more effective bow hunters. Correct. Yeah, it handicaps the
foundation because it makes us dependent strictlyon donations from individual bow hunters. We've
had turned down offers from from manufacturersfor large financial support, but we've turned
(30:29):
them down because we don't want thateven that appearance of any kind of bias
in our reporting. It's that importantfor us to have the bow hunters know
that the information we're putting out thereis what the studies show. You know,
this is what works. Yeah,and I love that about the research
and information that you guys share.Just kind of a selfish question. I've
(30:53):
had a debate with many people overthe years about broadheads mechanical versus fixed broadheads.
Can I can I get you?Well? Can I get your take
on those? We had a nutshell. Mechanicals don't work. When they work,
they are awesome. When they fail, the failure is spectacular. Unfortunately,
(31:15):
the failure rate is extremely high inall of our testing. Yeah,
so you guys, you guys,you guys. You guys test anything.
It doesn't matter whether it's faxed,mechanical. You run them all through.
Though, I'll test everything, youknow, we don't have the funding to
test every broadhead that comes out inthe market. Uh. We tend to
(31:37):
test ones that are in wide useand once where the manufacturer makes these out
of land these claims like the deadliestbroadhead ever made or the best performing broadhead
ever made. Anytime one of thoseclaim pops up, that broadhead goes on
our test list to see if itcan it live up to what they claim.
(32:00):
So far, none have right,right, Yeah, I've had you
know, I've had a few badexperiences. It took one or two bad
experiences with mechanicals and I was like, okay, I'm done with these,
and I went back to my oldfixed you know, G five's or one
hundred and twenty five grands or whateverhappened to be using for the for whatever
animal I was hunting. But youknow, you, you guys are kind
of like the consumer reports of ofof arrows and broad heads. Well that's
(32:23):
the way I like to think ofit is that you know, we're we're
just out there testing products and tellingyou, Okay, this product work,
this does. But then out ofthe all the years of research we've we've
come to a point of being ableto delineate the factors that make up the
good performing broad heads, the goodperforming aeroshafts, the good performing adapters,
(32:49):
and then the total good performing ERAsystems. So the information is there if
they'll, if they'll look for it, are go to the seminars like raw
present and find out the systems atwork. We've got before. We call
them the plan B Eras you know, everybody should have a plan B.
(33:09):
I mean, when you drive yourcar, you have a flat tire,
you've got a Plan B, Away to fix that flat tire, right,
you know, either an inflator thereor a sailor kid or a fair
tire. Hopefully when you go honeyand camping, you carry a first aid
kit. You don't expect to needit, but you've got it there for
(33:30):
that Plan B when things go wrong, and bow hunters should be honting with
a Plan D era because they can'tguarantee where that error is going to hit
the animal because animal reaction time isfaster than the fastest boat. Every animal
that we hunt had moved before thatera gets set, so we cannot predict
(33:52):
with absolute certainty where our era isgoing to hit, regardless of how good
a shock we are. So weshould be honey with an ERA that's going
to perform when we make that uhoh, things went wrong. We had
a flat title in this shot,right, So now we've got something in
place ready to fix that, totake care of that situation. And that's
(34:14):
what Plan V eras are. PlanA eras will work when everything goes perfect
right, Plan B eras will workthe vast majority of the time when things
happen. Yeah, and that's whatyou know, that's what Rob is That's
one of the main topics he's goingto cover during our during our seminar there,
he is going to talk about theplan B era yet. Yeah,
(34:35):
so the uh. I know there'sa lot of information on the website,
like we talked about before, butwhat is your preferred setup? We have
a lot of white tail listeners thathunt hunt whitetail in Texas. What's your
prefer preferred setup for for er onBroadhead? Well, because I hunted a
wide variety of games and a lotof heart heavy game around the world,
(34:57):
I had my Buffalo era set upand that's what I hunted everything with.
From rabbits up. There's a greatadvantage to being able to shoot one air
all the time because you have thismagnificent built in human computer between your ears
that can compensate for things that fasterthan any computer that may and it in
(35:22):
shooting. It's an actual great advantagewhen you have to take shots at a
running animal, or which might haveto do if you're doing a follow up
shot at a wounded animal, thingslike that, where that brain can make
computations for that one era that you'reso used to shooting and so used to
(35:43):
doing the trajectory of so I advocatestrongly that a person hunt with one era
all the time. Now, somepeople do quite successful, like Rob does
with two airs set up. He'sgot his big game area, his Buffalo
era, and then he's got asomewhat lighter era than he uses for North
(36:05):
American hunting, right right, Andthat system seems to work quite well for
him. But I was always anadvocate of shoot one era for everything.
You know, it's that old bewarethe man that only has one gun,
he probably knows how to shoot.That's it, man, that's a great
advice. All right, folks,We've been joined today by the by the
legend himself, doctor ed Ashby.Check out the website at Ashby Bowhunting dot
(36:30):
org. We'll see you next weekhere on Honey Matters KPRC nine to fifty.
I've got a shotgun or rifle ina four wheel
Tradition, conservation, family, theodors. It matters to you, it
matters to us. This is HuntingMatters presented by Houston Safari Club Foundation.
Here's Joe Bitar. Good morning andwelcome back to Hunting Matters on KPRC nine
(00:22):
fifty. This is your host,Joe b Tar, And I'm running around.
Ramon Roubles is over there making acup of coffee and I'm just doing
my thing. It's okay, youcan make one for yourself too. Well,
you're the one that want at Irishcream in it, so I had
to go find that that food foodcoffee. Good Saturday morning to you.
It is good Saday Saturday morning toyou as well. I sometimes joke and
(00:44):
call you doctor b Tar, butI feel kind of weird doing it because
we actually have a doctor on thisweek for those listening, I'm not a
real doctor. I just played onTV and I slept at a holiday and
last night, so no, wehave a real doctor on this week.
But what are you doing? Ijust printed the show PRIP you sent.
Why is it twelve pages? Wellyou're going to find out who were we
talking? Like two or three hours? Actually to give this man, just
(01:07):
do this man Justice. But yeah, well we're going to get into that,
but let's talk a little bit aboutHouston Spark Club Foundation before we get
get deep into that. Here itis, man, we's coming at it.
It's coming. It's convention season time. You know what I spent yesterday
all day long, dripping all overTexas well my world part Spring Magnolia Conroe.
That that area dropping off flyers savethe date flyers. So if you're
(01:32):
you're in a local gun shop,tax at hermos meat processing market and they
don't have them on the counter,you sent me an email at info at
we give dot org and tell mewhere I need to drop some off.
Because we're spreading the word. Theconvention is coming up. That is in
full focus for US January nineteenth throughthe twenty first at the Woodlands Waterway Marriott
Hotel and Convention Center. That isa beautiful hotel. We stay there all
(01:55):
the time, we go to theconcerts out there. It's a beautiful hotel.
It's a great hotel. There's alot of stuff to do around there.
But the expo will be there allthe banquets at night, and the
Ladies Lunch and the Gazelle's Lunch willbe there on Saturday. So go to
the website. Go to we huntwe give dot org, click on the
convention drop down buttons, go tothe attendee page. You can find out
everything you need to know about theannual Houston Safari Club Foundation Convention. You
(02:17):
can get your expo haul tickets thereor you can buy them at the door.
They're only ten bucks. You canget your banquet tickets online right now,
and the banquet tickets, Trust me, you want to get your banquet
tickets because we've got some fantastic liveauction items. We've got some people coming
in town, some new announcements forthose of you who know the outdoor world,
especially the archery world. Probably nogentleman by the name of Tom Miranda.
(02:38):
Tom Miranda's going to be there.We've got a lot of good surprises,
a lot of great things. Wegot free seminars this year with various
experts and various fields dealing with huntingand how to book hunts and firearms and
all that sort of thing. Representativefrom actually from John Rigby Company is going
to be there talking about the Rigbyline and its heritage. What else.
(02:58):
The comedian William Lee Martin's going tobe their Saturday night. Friday night,
we got Sundance head who won thevoice. Yeah, that's cool. One
season. Uh so there's there's stuffgoing on all weekend long. Do you
have any fire breathers? No,not this year, but we do have
Indigenous people's dancers actually on Saturday forthe Ladies Gazills lunch and yeah, wow,
so they may breathe fire. Idon't know. I haven't seen that
(03:20):
yet. They didn't ask me myopinion, so, but you never know
what's going to happen it. He'svery convention the go to we help we
gift dot org. Get your expotickets, get your banquet tickets. I
think ramon right now, we're expectingfive hundred plus for the banquet on Saturday
night, probably four hundred three.They did the tasting today without Meursday day
at the hotel course, I metwith the av team and they said,
(03:40):
why don't you stay for everything butthe fun stuff? Yeah, and I'm
like, well, I already gotstuff booked. Well So and So backed
out he had the flu and I'mlike, now you tell me, so
I could have been I could havebeen eating for the last three hours.
But now the food is always goodat the marry out. The chef out
there does a great job. SoGota we help, We give dot org.
Check it out and get your ticketsand come out to the banquets and
to the expo and join us.Are a great weekend of celebration of hunting
(04:01):
and conservation. All right, ourguest today, I'm a little bit nervous
about I know of the man andthe legend. I've never spoken to him
firstly before, but folks, joiningus today is doctor ed Ashby. Doctor
Ashby is a legend, and Ilove bow hunting. I loved to bow
hunt, and I was actually introducedto him through a mutual friend, mister
Rob Nielsen, who is with theAshby Bow Hunting Foundation. But doctor Ashby
(04:24):
is a legend in the archery huntingcommunity. He's dedicated twenty seven thirty plus
years to the study of air performanceand broadhead lethality, which are cool words
unto themselves over you know, sixcontents, not just here in South Texas.
So doctor Ashby, thank you somuch for joining us today. My
pleasure. So we're mooting. Youand I were talking attle bit out offline.
(04:45):
Where's your home home base of operations? Well, I'm a little bit
out of Rock Springs, sort ofsouth southwest Texas. Okay, okay,
cool, cool, So we're goingto get in. There's just like Ramon
and I were saying before, there'sa there's a ton of things to talk
about. We're not going to covereverything today in our hour, but uh,
(05:05):
there's a lot of things I kindof want to pick your brain about.
And uh, you know, Iwas reviewing the website, folks.
The website is ashby Bowhunting dot orgto check out the ashby uh the bow
Hunting Foundation. But one of thethings that just jumped out right off the
page to me was there's a quotein there for you. It says the
goal of every bow hunter should beto achieve the most penetration possible on an
(05:26):
animal with the intent of a fullpass through. And I think that's that's
kind of like, would you saythat's the first commandment of bow hunting?
Absolutely, it's kind of what Ihad in mind talk about today. So
so let's uh, let's let's talk. We got about what a minute and
a half left before we go intothe break. But is that a is
that just from years of of doingwhat you do in bow hunting and trying
(05:48):
various methods and things like that.Or is that was that just a revelation
or something that just came to evolve. Well, it's all of that.
It's sort of a thing that evolved. There's a lot of stuff that come
up from other forces, not justerrors. It deals with everything. I've
(06:10):
got some quotes here i'll give youafter a while from the FBI's handgun penetration
Testing report that comes up with thesame conclusion penetration's paramount, you know.
And I think I think a lotof bow hunters, especially novices or people
are just getting into it, don'tunderstand the importance of the lethality standpoint,
(06:32):
that sort of thing. And Iwant to really do a deep dive on
that with you today and talking aboutaerowaits and broadheadways, things that were all
new to me just a few yearsago. So folks, stick with us.
We're going to be talking to datadoctor ed Ashby. Check out their
website at Ashby bow Hunting dot orgto see all there is to know about
the Ashby Bow Hunting Foundation. Goingto take a quick break here on Honey
Matters KPRC nine to fifty. TheHouston Saphari Club Foundation is a five oh
(07:00):
one C three nonprofit organization that supportsthe future of hunting and conservation. Wildlife
and habitat conservation, youth education andoutdoor experiences, scholarships, and anti poaching
efforts are just a few of theprograms supported by this organization. Monthly events,
an annual convention, award winning publications, networking opportunities, and valuable resources
for hunting knowledge are just a fewof the benefits of being a member of
(07:21):
Houston spar Club Foundation. If you'researching for a group of people dedicated to
protecting the future of hunting, lookno further. Join Houston Spari Club Foundation
today at we huntwe Give dot orgor call seven one three six two three
eight eight four four consult not ofany down all the moment. Then you're
(07:55):
showing to be a change a weedon the reed, I'm a man.
Welcome back to Honeymaters and KPRC ninefifty. This is Joe Bitar. I
(08:18):
am Ramon Robless. We are honoredto be joined today by doctor ed Ashby.
Doctor Ashby, thank you once againfor joining us. Well. Couldn't
be happy to talk to you.Always will talk to boat hunters. Well,
doctor, I got a question foryou. If you had another life
and you are a rock and rollstar, what part of the band would
you want to be And would youwant to be the drummer, the guitar
player, the lead singer? Well, my voice, I'm definitely there'll be
(08:39):
the lead singer. Okay, uh, I probably want to be something noise.
You like the drama, all right? Yeah. I always picture myself
as the guitar player because they're theones that are flamboyant and out there.
And you know, but you couldso so far you're in my band.
I was gonna say you probably pickeddrummer too because of the sticks. Yeah,
(09:00):
oh yeah, it's our sick instrength. Always got one of his
hands. So, folks, beforewe jumped into the break there, we
were talking about Aaron Broadhead lethality andyou know, doctor Ashby the the statement
the intent of full pass through,I'm gonna say probably there's a lot of
bow hunters out there that have neveror has very seldom had the experience of
(09:22):
full pass through on an animal.Bow hunting. I mean we you know,
we make a lot of mistakes asbow hunters and try to cut corners
that sort of thing. So walkus through that principle if you would.
Well, one of the important thingsis that in our original the call study,
we are the only people ever Ithink, that have had the opportunity
(09:43):
to look at in detail at nonlethal ERA hits because we were backed up
with a rifle shooter and anytime ahint looked like it might be non lethal,
they were put down with a rifleshot to the air location and we
had access to two veterinarians to dothe dissection and tell us what happened.
(10:07):
And the number one cause of anon legal hit with an ERA, you
know, over seventy percent of thecases of non legal hits was lack of
adequate penetration. So penetration is themost important thing. And I mentioned to
you earlier I was going to readyou a little quote from the FBI's handgun
(10:31):
Penetration Testing Report, and I wasread a couple of small parts of it.
One was the critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the
large bloodberry organs. Any bullet whichwill not penetrate through vital organs from and
this is important, from less thanoptimal angles is not accepted. And that's
(10:56):
from Agent Eurypatrick of the FBI.So we're not the only people to come
up with this thing of penetration iswhat you must have. It is one
of those things that boat hunters don'tthink about. And if you look at
the multitudes of YouTube videos of boathunting, you'll see people shooting these high
(11:22):
drawway bows, you know, seventypounds or more not getting passed throughs on
white tailed deer. That is justabsolutely appalling. Now, getting the air
to pass through gives you a lotof advantage, even on a perfect purpose
place shop. If you can geta hole out both sides of the chest
(11:45):
gavity and you've gone through the lungs, you will let air into the chest
gavity and that's going to create anewmore thorax and the animal is going to
die very very quickly. Now,the Royal Veterinary Surgeons in England, and
why they did it, I'm notsure, but they had a study with
(12:09):
errors and determined that the blood losswas greatly impeded when the airshaft remained within
the womb, and they were lookingat it from the point of if someone
was shot with an error, andthey caution that the error still in do
you not remove the ERA because itis impeding the loss of blood? You
(12:33):
know, wait till they're in asituation where you can deal with the increased
bleeding that's going to be created whenyou remove that. And if you look
at any training for paramedics today withany embodied object, they caution, doctor,
remove it until you know you havethe patient in a location where you
(12:54):
can deal with the increase in bleedingthat's going to occur when you remove that
embody embedded up. And it's justan absolute medical fact. And you know,
most boat hunters realize that most ofyour animals are want to die from
blood loss, and rapid blood lossis what you want. So in order
to get the rapid blood loss thatyou want, even if you ever get
(13:18):
the log is to have the airpassed completely through. So if the air
chef is not in the wound,applying pressure againstitusues, which is inceeding the
loss of blood. So it hasa very sound medical basis of why you
want to get that pass through shot. Now, next problem becomes how do
(13:39):
we get that pass through shot whenthings go long? And that means that
you need an ERA this caseable ofperforming. You know, when things don't
go like they're supposed to. Andthere's a couple of good quotes on that
way back from the real boat huntinglegend Fred Baer in nineteen forty three and
(14:01):
Ye Sylvan Arts. He wrote,a deer can be killed with almost any
combination if no heavy bones are struck. But what is needed is something that
will crash through where the going istough. And that other bowl hunting legend,
Howard Hill wrote in Hunting the HardWay, all else being equal,
(14:24):
penetration is the name of the gamepretty much sums it up, and our
testing through the years has verified that. And what we have worked for is
finding the error of systems, andI'm to call you a system everything and
the broadheads then that performed when thegoing gets tough, that will crash through
(14:46):
when those heavy bones are struck,and still give you a pass through shot,
or atleast the highest likelihood of apass through shot. And that's what
we have strived for, what wecontinue to strive for today. And we
have various systems now that will morethan triple the penetration of the typical era
(15:11):
being used today. So so forthe for the just, for the average
hound, you know, we gointo an archer shop, or we go
to a sporting at store and wesee these arrows that are you know,
set up in packs and things likethat. Where do we even begin to
know what's right or what's wrong?Do we need to go to an archer
shop? Do we know? Howdo we find out? You know?
Because there's so much out there,you need to go to Ashby goo hunting
(15:31):
dot org and read all that volume, hundreds of pages of studies sometime in
the all cities and then digest atall. It is not easy reading,
I'll give you that, but learningthings is never an easy process. Are
one thing that you fail to mentionat yourgoing convention. They can go sit
(15:52):
in on the presentation that Rob Neilsonis given there. That's right, that's
right, mister good starting place.Yep, that's a great that's a great
plug. I appreciate you reminding meabout that. Yeah. Rob Nielsen from
the Ashby Bell Hunting Foundation will beproviding a free seminar at convention. We're
gonna take a quick break here.Our guest is doctor Ed Ashby. Will
be back after the break on huntingmatters KPRC nine fifty. Don't let your
(16:18):
baby, go to me. Cupid, draw back your ball and let your
Arab bool speak to my lover's heartfor me. For me, Cupid,
(16:45):
please hear my cry and let youArab fly. Sweet boys, my lovers,
money man before AI, before autotune, I mean just hey,
can you sing? Yeah? Whatdo you want me to put down?
Yeah? And they couldn't go backand overdub like they do now. And
(17:07):
uh, it was we got tostart and we got to end it.
Yeah. That multi track system wasn'teven not then an idea at that time.
Yeah, this is very nice.Welcome back to Honeymatters. Simone and
I are reminiscing over the oldies,big good old Get off my grass,
you be punk? Hey, heyyou kids, where's my golf cart?
Welcome back to Honey Matters KPRC ninefifty. This is Joe Peta am Ramon
(17:29):
Roeblisz. We're joined again today bydoctor ed Ashby Doctor Ashby. We last
segment we were talking and you glossedover it, so I'm going to go
back and address it. The theTall Study, I mean, the the
Tall Studies was groundbreaking for many manyreasons. Can you give our listeners for
those who don't know a little bitof overview of what it is and why
it was so important. Well,the the Tall study was conducted by the
(17:52):
Tall Parks Board. They wanted tolook at the potential of legalizing boat hunting
in South Africa and the Tall Provinceof South Africa just from the economic standpoint
of it would bring in more hunters, more money, that type of thing,
but they wanted to make sure thatit would effect even see you know,
(18:15):
a different equipment perform and so forthand in and aroundabout. Ways of
so long story, I got involvedand that was invited to participate. But
during that period of time, Ishot to White Rhino with bowling Era and
then went over to mcousie Park priorto them doing their annual call because they
(18:37):
do have to call a large numberof animals to keep the animal population in
check with the available habitat. Andso we went in before the rifle call
and were encouraged to shoot it animalsfrom any any animal we thought we could
hit, because they wanted to lookat what happened with the ineffective hits.
(18:59):
The hits the word non lethal,and that's why we were backed up with
the rifles in that whole scenario Iwas talking about, but I shot.
I think it was one hundred andfifty four animals that I killed during that
one month time, plus the animalsthat were non legal hits. And there
(19:21):
was also some testing done by TonyTompkinson was Tall park Board. He used
an eighty pound compound. I usedmy ninety four pound long boat. Anyway,
the whole thing was we got allthis information, we submitted it to
the Tall Part Board and they legalizedbow hunting. Now, up till that
(19:45):
time, the only places you couldbow hunt in Africa were the very few
countries that were silent on ways andmeans. Everywhere bow hunting was mentioned in
any game law anywhere in Africa itwas prohibited up to that point. So
Natall was the first place to havean affirmity bow hunting law. And once
(20:07):
they did it, within twelve monthsit spread to all the other provinces which
are like the states of South Africa, and within about two and a half
to three years it has spread toall the countries in Southern Africa that had
any kind of ways and means.Have to exhibit mosallm Beaque which still doesn't
(20:29):
have a ways and means law.So was it did result in the affirmitive
legalization of bow hunting throughout Africa.It was the hallmark state that legalized African
bow hunting. And how many yearsago did death study take place? We
(20:49):
did the testing in nineteen nineteen eightyfour, nineteen eighty five, and it
was legalized in the end of eightyfive. Got it. Got it?
So you know there there's like yousaid, there is a ton a ton
of information on the website and thestudies and the scientific data and that sort
of thing that we don't really havethe time to dive in today, but
(21:10):
I do encourage people to go readthose studies. Doctor a question here,
and we're talking penetration and obviously youknow, a deep dive. But did
we ever consider maybe just adding explosivetips tarros and not worrying about penetration.
Well, you know, Uh,Mississippi notably legalized the thing called the pod
(21:30):
back I think it was in theeighties, which was a poison era that
was that was allowed to be used. It was a little rubber container that
was right behind the broadhead that wouldunwrap as the air passed through. And
uh, this rup to poison intothe end of the bloodstream so that he
(21:52):
weren't in the body. The penetratebeyond the bald head would be lethal.
Uh. You know, that typeof thing has been has been used,
but it sort of fell out offavor for a number of reasons, but
mostly with concerns over you know,having the poison in the in the tissues
and things like that. Even thoughit was in a mounset, you know,
(22:18):
once in the tissue it was anon lethal dose. If you ate
the meat, you were still introducinga toxic into your body, right right.
You know a lot of times Icame to be hunting later in life
or moon and you know it wasalways you got to get the quiet as
fast as every year there's a quieter, faster bow. There's lighter airs and
that sort of thing. And uh, doctor Ashbury, I think you can
(22:38):
speak to this better than anybody,you know when you first start out of
all your buddies who are not aseducated as the experience as you guys are.
Well, oh, you need toget there really light eras with with
the mechanical broad heads and the lightbroad heads. You want to get really
really fast. And I want youto go ahead and to spell that that
myth right now in the air well, it is a myth. The light
(23:00):
fast eras people look at it andsay, oh, you know that gives
you advantage of being able to havea flatter trajectory and hit the animal at
longer ranges. Your object isn't ahit. Your object is to kill the
animal as humanly as possible. Andthese lfe fast eras do not do that.
(23:21):
There's absolutely no question of it.And you know, people need to
accept the fact that bow hunting isby nature and was intended to be a
closer rage for it, you know. And anytime I hear this one of
my pet peeves. I see allthese people now scouting, these sixty on
up the hundred yards plus shots withthem by one era, and they say,
(23:44):
well, out west, you know, our longer hour shooting is at
longer distances. And you know,anytime they come up with these things like
that, I've hunted a lot inthe West and a lot in the tundrunner,
the open planes all around the world. I've never had to take long
shots like that. My simple answerto them is I don't have to take
(24:04):
those. I'm a better hunter thanthat. You know, learn some hunting
skills. You know, learn toget close to your animal, learn to
make the lethal hits, and useequipment that will perform after the hit.
They're concerned with hitting the animal.I'm concerned with killing the animal. I'm
(24:25):
concerned from what happens with that erafrom the time it hits the animal till
it stops moving. And I hopethat's in the ground or in a tree
or something on the other side ofthat animal, right, right, Yeah,
and you know it's it's you're right. I think that's that's some of
the one of the things for mepersonally that drew me to bow hunting was
not only oh, here's something newand cool to do, but also you've
(24:47):
got to be smarter, you gotto be more patient, you got to
get closer to the animal. It'smore challenging you you have to use pretty
much all of the all the giftsthat you have as far as when you
become a consistent effective boat absolutely,and you know, the key word is
bow hunter. You have to bea hunter, not a boat shooter.
(25:08):
Right. So much of the inphasistoday has become only bow shooter, not
the bowl hunter. And that's anotherthing I think is, you know,
we have a wonderful opportunity, awonderful media out there with all these things
like YouTube to teach bow hunting skills, but you see very very little of
(25:30):
that. Everything you see is somepromotional hunter pushing some product, and oftenest
products that in reality do not perform. Well, you know, they're being
they're big paid to push these productsand our benefiting financially somehow from it,
either free equipment, but in alot of cases it is actually uh financially
(25:55):
supporting them. Uh. So youknow the worst source you can go to
for him information is probably YouTube,right, right? Are similar our similar
social media? Yeah, because there'sso much push and they have the money
to do these very slick videos,you know, high quality, but it's
(26:18):
all advertising. It's it's not givingyou the facts without boat honey. Yeah,
and that's unfortunate. I mean,it just takes a takes a couple
of time to times a wounded animalto get discouraged to not want to go
bow hunting again or whatever. Butit's uh, we're gonna take There's nothing
worse than that sick feeling of woundingan animal and absolutely yeah, you're absolutely
(26:40):
right. Gonna take a quick breakhere before our final segment Honeymatter's KPRC nine
to fifty are being on wars.I still feel twenty five moles to the
(27:07):
Tina. I still raise a littlekne We're the moys, hockey toons and
pretty women. Lord, I'm stillright there with them singing about the crackdown
and the noise. Welcome back toHoney Matters on KPRC nine fifties to your
(27:32):
host, Joe B. Tarry.I am Ramon Roebliss. Joined today by
doctor ed Ashby. Doctor Ashby isalso known as one of the founders of
the Ashby bow Hunting Foundation. Checkout Ashby bow hunting dot org. That's
ish a s h b Y bowHunting dot org. Doctor Ashby, thanks
once again for joining us. Ohmy pleasure. One of the things you
always, uh, you always telltis that you should always find the heaviest
(27:53):
or use the heaviest air possible thathas the trajectory that you still find acceptable.
How how do you how do youI know there's a lot of studies
and things on the websites and thingslike that, but how how did you
come to that? How would youadvise people to come to that realization where
they're using the heavies setup that theycan use, but it's still acceptable.
Well, you know, it's clearphysics that the you know, the heavier
(28:18):
object takes longer to stop, it'sgoing to penetrate deeper. Uh. And
most people understand that because you know, a heavier vehicle takes longer to stop.
Uh. So so they get theconcept of that. Uh. What
they've got to balance that with isthat trajectory they can live with. Uh.
(28:38):
You know, I I know ofone very successful bowt hunter uh that
for years, you solid fiberglass fisheras hunt with. You know, that's
over two thousand right arrowway. Uh. That was abjectory I wasn't even willing
to live with. Uh. Soyou have to balance the very physics of
(29:02):
error performance against what what will workfor me the way I hunt. And
again you've got to have that huntingmindset to do it. You're not out
to make a hit, You're outto make a killing shot. And what
distance can I do that within myhunting skills? And if you can't get
(29:25):
close enough to use an adequate errowway, then you need to work on
your hunting skills, not your shootingskills. Right. Yeah, absolutely,
I agree with you one hundred percent. You know the thing, the thing
that you know, it's on yourwebsite. But I think I want to
point out as you guys have doneall these studies over the years and publish
all these studies and you don't chargeanybody for I mean you, and most
(29:47):
importantly, you're not beholden to anymanufacturer. You guys don't accept uh,
you know, you don't accept fundingsomething total funding from manufacturers, which I
think is very very commenable, veryhonorable, because that allows you to not
only conduct but also to produce thesestudies on a non biased, you know,
non biased from a non biased standpoint, which I think is phenomenal.
(30:07):
There's no agenda here, it's justwe're just trying to teach people how to
be better and more effective bow hunters. Correct. Yeah, it handicaps the
foundation because it makes us dependent strictlyon donations from individual bow hunters. We've
had turned down offers from from manufacturersfor large financial support, but we've turned
(30:29):
them down because we don't want thateven that appearance of any kind of bias
in our reporting. It's that importantfor us to have the bow hunters know
that the information we're putting out thereis what the studies show. You know,
this is what works. Yeah,and I love that about the research
and information that you guys share.Just kind of a selfish question. I've
(30:53):
had a debate with many people overthe years about broadheads mechanical versus fixed broadheads.
Can I can I get you?Well? Can I get your take
on those? We had a nutshell. Mechanicals don't work. When they work,
they are awesome. When they fail, the failure is spectacular. Unfortunately,
(31:15):
the failure rate is extremely high inall of our testing. Yeah,
so you guys, you guys,you guys. You guys test anything.
It doesn't matter whether it's faxed,mechanical. You run them all through.
Though, I'll test everything, youknow, we don't have the funding to
test every broadhead that comes out inthe market. Uh. We tend to
(31:37):
test ones that are in wide useand once where the manufacturer makes these out
of land these claims like the deadliestbroadhead ever made or the best performing broadhead
ever made. Anytime one of thoseclaim pops up, that broadhead goes on
our test list to see if itcan it live up to what they claim.
(32:00):
So far, none have right,right, Yeah, I've had you
know, I've had a few badexperiences. It took one or two bad
experiences with mechanicals and I was like, okay, I'm done with these,
and I went back to my oldfixed you know, G five's or one
hundred and twenty five grands or whateverhappened to be using for the for whatever
animal I was hunting. But youknow, you, you guys are kind
of like the consumer reports of ofof arrows and broad heads. Well that's
(32:23):
the way I like to think ofit is that you know, we're we're
just out there testing products and tellingyou, Okay, this product work,
this does. But then out ofthe all the years of research we've we've
come to a point of being ableto delineate the factors that make up the
good performing broad heads, the goodperforming aeroshafts, the good performing adapters,
(32:49):
and then the total good performing ERAsystems. So the information is there if
they'll, if they'll look for it, are go to the seminars like raw
present and find out the systems atwork. We've got before. We call
them the plan B Eras you know, everybody should have a plan B.
(33:09):
I mean, when you drive yourcar, you have a flat tire,
you've got a Plan B, Away to fix that flat tire, right,
you know, either an inflator thereor a sailor kid or a fair
tire. Hopefully when you go honeyand camping, you carry a first aid
kit. You don't expect to needit, but you've got it there for
(33:30):
that Plan B when things go wrong, and bow hunters should be honting with
a Plan D era because they can'tguarantee where that error is going to hit
the animal because animal reaction time isfaster than the fastest boat. Every animal
that we hunt had moved before thatera gets set, so we cannot predict
(33:52):
with absolute certainty where our era isgoing to hit, regardless of how good
a shock we are. So weshould be honey with an ERA that's going
to perform when we make that uhoh, things went wrong. We had
a flat title in this shot,right, So now we've got something in
place ready to fix that, totake care of that situation. And that's
(34:14):
what Plan V eras are. PlanA eras will work when everything goes perfect
right, Plan B eras will workthe vast majority of the time when things
happen. Yeah, and that's whatyou know, that's what Rob is That's
one of the main topics he's goingto cover during our during our seminar there,
he is going to talk about theplan B era yet. Yeah,
(34:35):
so the uh. I know there'sa lot of information on the website,
like we talked about before, butwhat is your preferred setup? We have
a lot of white tail listeners thathunt hunt whitetail in Texas. What's your
prefer preferred setup for for er onBroadhead? Well, because I hunted a
wide variety of games and a lotof heart heavy game around the world,
(34:57):
I had my Buffalo era set upand that's what I hunted everything with.
From rabbits up. There's a greatadvantage to being able to shoot one air
all the time because you have thismagnificent built in human computer between your ears
that can compensate for things that fasterthan any computer that may and it in
(35:22):
shooting. It's an actual great advantagewhen you have to take shots at a
running animal, or which might haveto do if you're doing a follow up
shot at a wounded animal, thingslike that, where that brain can make
computations for that one era that you'reso used to shooting and so used to
(35:43):
doing the trajectory of so I advocatestrongly that a person hunt with one era
all the time. Now, somepeople do quite successful, like Rob does
with two airs set up. He'sgot his big game area, his Buffalo
era, and then he's got asomewhat lighter era than he uses for North
(36:05):
American hunting, right right, Andthat system seems to work quite well for
him. But I was always anadvocate of shoot one era for everything.
You know, it's that old bewarethe man that only has one gun,
he probably knows how to shoot.That's it, man, that's a great
advice. All right, folks,We've been joined today by the by the
legend himself, doctor ed Ashby.Check out the website at Ashby Bowhunting dot
(36:30):
org. We'll see you next weekhere on Honey Matters KPRC nine to fifty.
I've got a shotgun or rifle ina four wheel
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