September 16, 2025 • 55 mins
In this powerful episode of Just Heal with Dr. Jay, Dr. Jay Barnett sits down with Kevin Hines, a renowned mental health advocate and one of the few survivors of a suicide attempt from the Golden Gate Bridge. Kevin shares his deeply personal journey, reflecting on the moments that led to his attempt, the struggles of living with trauma and mental illness, and the ongoing process of recovery. Together, they explore the urgent realities of suicide prevention, the weight of survivor’s guilt, and the transformative role of hope, faith, and community support. The conversation emphasizes the importance of seeking help, breaking the stigma around mental health, and reminding listeners of their inherent worth and potential for healing. Tune in and join the conversation in the socials below.
⚠️ Content Note: This episode discusses suicide, trauma, and mental health struggles. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is in crisis, please dial or text 988 in the United States for the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, or reach out to local resources in your area. You are not alone.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Suicide is one of the leading causes of death in
the United States. Over forty nine thousand people died by
suicide in twenty twenty three, and there's one death every
eleven minutes. The suicide rate among males in twenty twenty
three was approximately four times higher than the rate among females.
Males make up fifty percent of the population but nearly
(00:24):
eighty percent of suicide. If you know anyone that may
be struggling with suicidal thoughts or have shared their contemplations
of suicide, I urge you to call None eight eight,
the Suicide Prevention Hotline. Welcome to Jess Hell with Doctor J,
a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio.
(00:48):
Welcome back to another episode of Just Hell with Doctor J.
And I am your host, Doctor J Barnett. Listen. Before
we get started, I want to encourage you to hit
that subscribe button, like, please share what we're doing over
here at the Healing Pod, Healing Community, healing Circle, whatever
works for you. Just know that we're doing some healing.
So September is Suicide Prevention Month, and all month of
(01:13):
September we have individuals that have survived suicide attempt and
as myself sharing my story, but I also brought some
other individuals that have some amazing, powerful stories. I'm not
only just surviving, but also they're thriving in life now.
So before we introduce our next guests, I want to
(01:36):
caution the viewers that you may hear something that may
be triggering. I want to caution the viewers that you
may hear something that may be very difficult to process.
But I wanted people that can share their stories and
share their truth and be transparent about their journey. And
if you know someone and I'm taking my time very
(01:58):
intentionally by sharing what I'm sharing because I don't want
to be insensitive and don't want a gloss over because
I'm trying to stick to the program. Sometime it's okay
to come off a program. But if you know someone
that is struggling with suicide and ideation, someone that is
maybe struggling in life, they may have shared something that
didn't sound good with you. I want to encourage you
(02:19):
to call nine eight eight, which is a suicide prevention hotline.
I'm hoping that this episode encourage you that if you
are in a dark place, there is a possibility to
discover light. And when you discover light, you find a
reason to live. So I'm honored to have my brother
(02:40):
friend advocate and you have seen his story, some of
you heard it. I've always have clicked off the video
when I see Kevin because I wanted to hear it
for myself, because I've never heard it for myself. I
wanted to hear his story up close and personals. So
I'm excited to have my brother and friend, Kevin Hines
(03:04):
here all the way from the Bay Area by way
of Atlanta. Man, Kevin, brother, it is good to have
you here. Man, Man, dude, we have been on a
lot of platforms together, but I've never heard your story
in totality. I've always kind of come in on bits
and pieces. But today I want to get an up
(03:24):
close view of hearing your story, hearing your triumph. But
also I want the audience, my audience that have not heard,
that have not come across your story, your message, that
what you share with the world today. Man, So welcome
man to the Healing Circle. Some people like healing circle
(03:46):
healing pod. Huh. It's a welcome brother.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I love what you're doing, Jay, doctor j The Just
Hell Bro movement is phenomenal. I remember when you gave
me your book all those years ago. If there was
a gift, I shared it with some folks on my end.
They appreciated it. And I'll tell you it's been a
long road, right, you know. I want to go back
if I can, to the very beginning, because that's where
(04:11):
all stories start. I was born in abject poverty in
the worst neighborhood in San Francisco, the Tenyloin District, then
the worst neighboro there today. I was born and lived
in and out of crack motels. My birth parents, as
I'm adopted, after they had me and my brother ten
months apart he was older, they succumbed to hardcore drugs
(04:33):
and alcohol. My father, Martino, was half Mexican, half Italian.
My mother, Marcia, came from Saint Mary, Jamaica, and she
was Jamaican, African, airwalk Indian, Portuguese. And they came together
and they fell madly in love in the nineteen seventies
in San Francisco. But they had no money, they had
(04:57):
no wherewithal and they had seemingly no fuel future. But
they had two baby boys that they couldn't take care of. Wow,
and they would leave me and my brother. According to
the documents we'd received later from CPS, they would leave
me and my brother in these crack motels, lying next
to dangerous drug paraphernalia, sharp metal objects, had we touched,
(05:18):
could have killed us. And we were living on a
box spring for a mattress over a concrete slab floor
in these places. Had we, as infants, had fallen to
the concrete slab floor easily would crafted heads open and die.
And they would leave us unattended, day by day, night
by night, all day long, every day to go do
score and sell drugs and jay. It's my understanding that
(05:40):
my poor birth mother might have had to sell herself.
That was our life, and it changed all of a
sudden when one day, one very CD motel clerk made
what I can only call his most unseedy decision. He
called the police, and he called CPS, and they came
in and they kind of barreled down the door, and
(06:02):
they swooped me and my brother up, smelling sour and
putrid of her own filth from neglect. We had all
these ubiquitous ulcers on our backs, burning through our skin
from our own filth, and it was really bad. And
of course they placed us directly into the system foster care,
a broken system, then a broken system now and my
brother I bounced around from home to home, and there
(06:25):
was one very simple idea that he and I were
to be adopted together, but of course you know that's
not what happened. We bounced around originally for a while together,
and then in a home filled with neglects more neglect,
we both contracted a vicious strain of bronchitis, and my
only full blooded brother, George Ash may he rest in peace,
(06:46):
died right next to me.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Man, how old were you at that time?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Well, if he was ten months older than me, this
must have been. To be honest, I don't have the details,
but I just know I know the documents that he
died next to me. Then they removed me from that
home and placed me into what would become my first
(07:10):
good foster home because I do exist right, And this
was the Muller family, who I want to give a
big shout out to Peter and Debura. Muller took in
kids from all over. They were transition home. He couldn't
stay there, but they had so many children twelve months
to twelve years of age. Pandemonium in that household, but
they loved their foster children like they were their own.
It was incredible, but you couldn't stay. And one very
(07:34):
faithful day, a lovely young woman named Deborah Johan Hines
walked in their door. And you know my last name Jay,
so this works out. She took me in along with
Patrick Kevin Hines, my eventual namesake. My birth name was
not Kevin Hines. That's my adopted white name. My biological
name is Giovanni gebrae arad Fadlis. Try to saying that
(07:57):
ten times fast.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
He got me.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
But but they took me in, and they had taken
in a girl from a different family, Elizabeth. And after
they took me, and they took in a young boy
named Joseph who was actually we got him and he
was born. He was born less than two pounds premature,
did to the crack cocaine. And so you've got me,
the mixed kid. My brother black, my sister white, Patton,
(08:22):
w Irish and German. People were confused and we end
up after these all of us having three separate very
traumatic infancies. Very traumatic. My my sister Elizabeth, her her
birth mom had multiple personality disorder. Many different children from
many different men. It was it was it was a
(08:42):
it was a it was chaos and Patton Debbie. You know, Uh,
there's no other way to put it. They saved our lives.
And growing up, I thought I got this. They had
made in the shade. How can anything go south from here?
Where was that?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Rock? Man? So your story man, and I'm following you.
It's almost as you're talking, Kevin, it's like I'm watching
a movie because I see in pictures and I'm seeing
the pictures of the high moments where you finally two
(09:23):
brothers get to get a home, and then I'm seeing
this low moment. You wake up one day and you're like,
where's my other half? And I'm sure from a state
of unconscious and consciousness, you know, like not even knowing
that your brother, you know, it's not even alive. And
I'm thinking about now you get to place your place
(09:47):
in this home, your place in a home that's loving.
But now it's another dynamic. So as you navigated through
all of these different dynamics, what was something that really
stuck out to you? Because as you're telling the story,
it's like the movies getting ready to shift to get Yeah,
you know.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Jay from the moment I could understand words, comprehension, identity,
there was a void in my chest. All I wanted
my whole life Jay growing up. As much as I
love my mom and dad Paton Debbi Hind who took
me and made me their stuck, all I ever wanted
(10:28):
was to find my mom RCM and tell her three words,
I love you. And the tragic part of all this
is that at about twenty three years of age, I
went searching for my birth mom and I was two
(10:49):
years too late, meaning that I went searching for her.
I found details about her, and I found out that
I had a brother and a birth sister. I never
knew my birth mom. Marcilla had a family before mine,
before she met Martino. She was from Florida, and she
(11:11):
was married to another man, and she had two kids
with that man. And one day she walked out on
them and never came back. Wow, And she left my brother,
he and I actually we learned to show the exact
same birthday ten years apart. And she walked these older
and she walked away and she never came back. And
she made her way across the country like the hitchhiking
(11:35):
things like that, to San Francisco, met Martino. My father
had us and all I ever wanted was to meet
her and tell her I loved her. And it turned
out that and this is very tragic. Two years prior
to me finding the story out, she had been seven
years sober. My sister had found her in San Francisco,
(11:58):
had gotten her seven years sober, and then one day,
apparently she went back on drugs and ended up getting
hit by a tow truck, losing her right leg to
an amputation caused by complications of the injury, and she
passed away due to those complications. I don't know if
(12:21):
it was a suicide attempt, Jay, but it was awful
to hear about. But the silver lining is that one
day I get this. I call that number that I
found and I remember it vividly. G I said, Hi,
my sister's name is Shica. I said, hi, Shehika. My
name is Kevin. Well, my name was Giovanni, And I go,
(12:42):
I'm your brother, call me. Would you call that guy?
He's gonna who's gonna call that guy?
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So two years go by, two more years go by,
and uh, she sees me on twenty twenty with John Stossel,
and she goes, I think that's my brother. And she
goes back, gets that phone master's and calls my phone number.
I have the same phone number.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Wow, she calls me.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I'm answering the phone. I'm in the kitchen cooking a
culinary specialty of mine, spam with honey mustard, and and
she says, hello, is this Cheetavannie? And nobody calls me
that Jay? So I was like, is this sheikha? And
(13:22):
she goes, how many shikahs do you know? I said,
I got to meet you right now, and she goes, WHOA,
I don't know you. I said, she can have been
looking for you my whole life. Please. I need to
meet my family, please, And she said okay. Starbucks on
fourteen you loa in half an hour. I was there
(13:43):
in fifteen minutes. I ran there.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
And I'm waiting there and there's these two police officers
on their motorbikes in front of Starbucks eating donuts. It
was like classic. And I'm walking back and forth talking
to myself and they're like, sir, are you okay? And
I was like, no, I'm good for my sister. It's
gonna be amazing. It's a gift from God, and like,
we don't want to know your whole life story. We
just want to know you're not a threat to this Starbucks.
(14:06):
I'm fine, calm down. So she comes around the corner,
the uncanny resemblance of our mom.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Wow, looks just.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Like her, just like her. And and without even knowing
my half of the story, not without even knowing what
I wanted from my mom, those three words, she embelloces
me in her arms and she says, I love you.
And it was like Jay was like the void disappeared.
(14:35):
It disappeared like that, and we walked into Star Wars
and we sat down and had some tea. And this
was the part that really got me. She handed me
a metal tin of cats that are used to be
our moms. It was a bunch of letters and things
from our moms, some of the things she had remaining.
(14:59):
And I picked up immediately this Christmas card list, like
a list of who to write Christmas cards to. And
I'm reading the names on the list and I see
the name Fred Klink. I was like my art teacher
in art one on one at City College in the
year two thousand before I left off the Golden Gate
bridge was Fred Kling. How many Fred Klings are there
(15:19):
in the world in San Francisco. He was a good
friend of mine. A matter of fact, he had stopped
me from taking my life once. So after I see
my sister, I call a Fred, my Fred, can you
call me back? He calls me. I say, Fred, do
you know a woman named Marcia? I named her last name,
and he he said, Kevin, watn'ch you meet me for lunch.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I go meet Fred for lunch and he looks at
me says, how do you know her? I said, Fred,
she's my mom. How do you know her? And he said, Kevin,
she was in my art one on one class an
hour block after you. The same year, when I was
(16:06):
walking out of my class, she was walking in. We
shared the same argonne the same air. Come on, Kevin,
I'm serious what we shared the same air. I likely
passed her not even knowing it was her.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
And I was enraged that I missed her. And then
I and then I prayed, and I said, hold on,
what a gift. We breathed the same air for those moments.
Every day during that one semester, we.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Been going to class and not even saying it. Didn't
even know it when when when Fred gives you that
information and you are enraged, well, going through your mind that, man,
I was passing so many women up and not knowing
(17:07):
that one of them that I was passing was my mom.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Initially just overwhelming, unrelenting pain, pure pain. But then hope
and yes for my grandmother, my birth grandmother's name is.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Hope. Wow, man, Kevin you I'm sitting here man, the
strength and vulnerability that it's not that you're displaying, it's
(18:00):
you actually live in this space. How are you so hopeful?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Man?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Because I want to And as you answer, is because
no one really knows the story that day. Now, I
heard the story nationally, but I never knew it was
your story even when I met him, because I heard
about the story of the Golden Gate, but I never
(18:32):
knew that it was your story. And how is it
that you still have hope? And I want to go
back to that day?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, you know, Doc, I have hope every day because.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
I have to. I feel the same.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I have hope because the multitude in the multifaceted struggle
as I've been through, are never going to defeat me.
You can let one of two things happen. You can
let one of two things happen when you're in lethal
(19:16):
emotional pain. You can let a defeat or destroy you,
or you can let it build you from the ground
up until you're stronger than ever. I choose the latter. No,
I wasn't always that way. I grew up. At seventeen,
(19:36):
my brain just broke. I had a complete mental breakdown
on stage in a theater show in front of a
sold out crowd of twelve hundred people. I was one
of the leads in the show. I believed that twelve
hundred people were going to simultaneously rise rest the stage
and end my life. In extreme paroid delusion, I ran
off the stage, had to go see my first psychiatrist,
(19:59):
was placed on it. Cations, wasn't really taking them properly,
was drinking while on psych meds, blocking out an alcohol.
It was a mess. And fast forward to nineteen. That's
when the first thoughts of taking my life came into play.
(20:22):
And it wasn't so much a thought like we think thoughts.
It was more of an auditory hallucination in my head
telling me what I had to do, yeah, telling me
I had no other option, that it was in fact
inevitable that I had no choice in the matter. And
I want to make a point to people who are
struggling with these thoughts and to those that love them,
is that your loved ones don't want to die by suicide.
(20:46):
They believe they have to. And there's a categorical difference
between the two if you can reach them in time
and ask those very detailed questions that are hard to ask.
Are you thinking of killing yourself? Have you made plans
to take it? And do you have the means? Those
three questions are category They're proven to save lives because
(21:09):
they cut past the nonsense and they show people who
are in pain that the pain shared is the pain had.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, but I didn't.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I didn't know that back then. We didn't know that
back then.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Me neither, because the pain is is, dude, It's it's
almost like it's almost like bench pressing and all of
a sudden your arms give out and you can't get
it off your chest. Yeah, that's what it feels like.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
That is what it feels like.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
You penned, you pined for you. The voices was for
me auditory as well, but I had replay of just
things that have happened not only in my childhood, but
just the things that I heard that somebody has said
to me. You know, did your auditory voices connect to pictures?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
One of the things is to answer your question. Yes.
One of the things that I've learned is that when
you have self loathing, yourself hating her, or you have
the voices in your head to tell you have to
take your life. Those voices didn't come from you. They
came from all the spiteful, hateful, rageful, violent, mean, negative,
(22:30):
abusive things that have been centered down to you by others.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
They came from trauma.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
And when I was in grade school, I was bullied
to no end a because I was small, be more
importantly because I was the only part black kid in
the school, and these kids made it known that I
did not belong there. Every single day, the eighth graders
(23:02):
would take me as a fourth grader and beat me up.
I was a child. A kid named Mike would get
in front of me and push me over, a kid
named Tony. I'd crack my head open on the concrete
and bleed when they would call me little red end word.
Every day. That was my life. So I grew up
hating myself because everyone else hated there or pretended they did,
(23:23):
or whatever it was. And I've forgiven them now, no
ill will and I'm not complaining. I'm not a no victim,
no victim. But it was brutal, and at nineteen, those
turned into voices in my head. Yes that told me
what I had to do to myself. And I ended
up making my way out to the Golden Gate Bridge
(23:44):
on a bus, crying my eyes out, hoping, wishing and
praying jay that one person would see me, see my
pain and say something kind m because if someone reached
out and said, hey, kidd are you okay? Brother? Something wrong?
Or pow, can I help you? I would have told
him everything, begged him to save me. But the only
(24:06):
person on that bus to say anything to me when
the bus got to the Golden Gate Bridge parking lot
and one hundred people deboarded was the driver, who stood
turned and said, come on, can't get off the bus.
I gotta go. I walked up to that man, I
looked him right in the eyes as waterfalls were flowing
from mine, and he just motioned for me to get
(24:26):
off the bus, and I walked across the two mile
stretch of walkway is the ninth wonder of the world,
the Golden gate Bridge and all its courious beauty. And
after forty minutes of pacing back and forth, I found
a light rail on that rail, Jay, somebody had carved
(24:49):
into the rail jump aw. A woman from my left
approached me. I prayed she was gonna, asked me if
I was okay. I couldn't say it aloud. I needed
(25:10):
someone to reach in, and she said, will you take
my pictus? And I had to smile a little bit
like okay, terrible timing. I took her pretty sure, she
posed several times, and she walked away. At that moment,
(25:32):
I told myself the single greatest lie any of us
had ever told. Absolutely nobody cares the furthest thing from
the truth, any member of my family, every one of
my friends. Jay, if you had been there that day,
(25:53):
seen nineteen year old young me leaning over that reil crying,
you would have done something about it. People care, Yeah,
people care. I couldn't see it.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
We never can. I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
At that moment, the voice yelled, and I mean back
in that at decimals you can't express without piercing ear drumps,
jump now, and I did. But the moment, the millisecond
my hands left the rail, instantaneous regret for my actions,
and then one recognition that I just made the greatest
(26:32):
mistake of my life. And it was too late, because
for ninety nine point nine percent of the people that
have done exactly what I did that day off that bridge,
it's been too late. They're all gone.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I want a pause to because I heard that story
by way. One night I was watching YouTube and a
guy was telling the story about a young man who
jumped off the bridge, and he said the young man said,
(27:15):
the moment his hands left the rail, he regretted it.
I never forgot that care when I didn't know that
was you. And I told that story so many times
when I and as with you and I both speak
a lot about suicide prevention and sharing a story, and
(27:36):
I often talk about how most people, when they attempt,
I often wonder if they can go back, those who
have exceeded, if they can go back and undo because
of the instant regret, because the decision is so finite.
(27:58):
And as I'm hearing you tell it now and I'm
hearing it in real time from you, man, it hits
different because people often ask me like, man, Jay, did
you ever regretted? And mine's wasn't because I was with
my godmother. So had I had a gun, definitely, it
(28:21):
would have been definitely by a gunshot. But because I
was living with her, I didn't want her to see
that type of picture to where she has to walk
in the room and see that scene in her head.
But to think about your life now and to think
(28:45):
about to hear how you say, man, once my hands left,
and the thought of just like man, what have I done?
And I'm thinking about all of those who didn't survive.
I want to ask you this, man, and this is
(29:07):
for me, do you ever have survivor's guilt?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I used to not anymore. Yeah, I got to live
to talk to you right now. Somebody is going to
see this and it won't move them to stay.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
God me. God gave me a second chance, a purpose.
We us a second chance so that others can never
learn the hard way like we did. Yeah, And so
they choose life so they can stay. And every time,
(30:05):
every time a young one or all the light chooses
life because of our mission, God is smiling upon us,
and so is everyone we lost my birth mom, my
birth dad, my birth brother, my favorite teacher who killed himself.
(30:25):
He was he was my friend, he was my hero.
He was like a second father figure to me. Everybody
up there who went before us too soon is sending
us the light we need to do this work.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
It's definitely that care, because you actually just gave me
some I used to battle with survivors guilt man all
the time. I mean all the time, and it's something
that I've recently have really overcame. I remember when Charlamagne
called me and I had to go to do this
(31:07):
show when Twitch passed, and man, it was I cried, man,
that thing that that thing hit me. Man, So man,
okay right now it was.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
His life was so bright.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And you know after that, I stopped posting when a
famous person would take their life, I stopped stopped. I
stopped getting involved in the story, stopped. I couldn't couldn't
do it. And I said, the family is in so
much pain, and everybody and their mother is commenting about it.
They don't need all that, and uh but I think
(31:56):
about all that and all the like, you know, Jay,
I have lost twenty two people. Now, twenty two people
to suicide. That's twenty two too many. One is one
too many. And you know what, I sit here and
I go Who's next? Who that I love is next?
Speaker 1 (32:16):
You know?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
There was a woman I'll say her name because everyone
knows who she's Amy Blue helped found the Semi Colon
projects years ago, Big suicide French organization still runs. And
she fought to live for a very long time and
she would pick different people to help her fight to live.
And one time, for about a year, she picked me
(32:42):
and we talked every day and every day I was
keeping her from taking her life. It was a battle.
It was like it was like battling a demon, and
it was telling her to tell her life. And every
day I'd keep her here every day. And then one
day I got the call she was gone. All that
hard work, all that effort, it just broke me and
(33:05):
I had to pause on work for a while.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I couldn't nor.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Here. Man. It's so heavy, man, this work that we
do bro last. Was it about a year ago? That
was a kid that family was working. A family wanted
me to work with him. And I was on the
road and I think I was on tour. I was
on tour at the time, and they were reaching out.
(33:32):
And when I'm on tour, man, you know, you're so
you're so locked in because we got two or three
hundred men showing up, so I got to be available
for these men. So you know, they was trying to,
you know, get the kid in to see me. And
I kept telling him, hey, you know, when I get home,
I bade it work with him and see him. So
(33:54):
when I finally got a chance to get home and
finally get a chance to stop, I get the call
and Bro, when I tell you man, when she said,
missus Jay, he's gone, and I said huh. And I
was baffled because I was just like, no, no, no way,
(34:15):
But he's sixteen years old. She said he's gone. I said,
what do you mean he's going? She said, he took
his life and he was waiting on you. And Bro,
he tell you something, Kevin. When I tell you man,
that thing put me in a prison. Yeah, for about
(34:39):
a year, and I never said anything. And then too,
the thoughts came back for me because I'm like, how
could I have stopped to me? Yeah, And then I
was upset because I'm like, well, God, you gave me
this purpose, and you got me out here working with
these men. But working with these men made me not
(35:01):
be available for this young man. Had I been home,
this young man would still be here and brought it
was the most daunting that'll eat you alive, man, Jay.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Every suicide, any suicide that you're connected to, these are
the words you have to say. They didn't die because
of me or in spite of me. They died because
of a lethal emotional pain that had nothing to do
with me. Every person has lost someone this way. It's
(35:46):
not your weight to carry, yeah, because it'll crush you.
But back to that day. You're talking about two hundred
and twenty feet above the water, twenty five stories. You
fall at eighty miles prior total velocity in four seconds.
(36:11):
These were the words that I said in my head
as I fell very rapidly. What have I just thought?
And I want to die? God, please save me. You
hid it fifteen thousand pounds of pressure. People think you
(36:32):
die on impact. You don't. You die very slowly and
very violently. I went down forty feet. I opened my
eyes and I was drowning, and I didn't want to.
I frantically moved in any direction I was going the
wrong way. I was going down. My eyes began to bulge,
my ears began to ring because of the pressure. I
(36:53):
shot for the surface as fast as my arms were taken.
I couldn't fill my legs, but they were working. I
broke the surface. I bobbed up and down in the water,
and I did the one thing I've got control over
since kindergarten. I prayed, God, please save me. I don't
want to die. God, please save me. I don't want
to die. I made a mistake. Jay, you know he
(37:15):
heard me. A woman driving by in a red car
saw me go over the rail at the moment of
my attempt, called her coworker in the United States Coastguard,
who were manning the waters of the bridge at that moment.
The only reason the Coastguard boat arrived to my position
(37:37):
in the water before I was to drown. That woman's
phone call in the water. I flil to stay afoot.
I go down. My boots are heavy, my long sleeved
clothing is heavy. I can't keep it. I can't get
back up to the surface. I go down one more time.
I think this is it. This is where I go.
Nobody's coming to save me. I die here today. What
(37:59):
did I do? I don't want to die. What have
I done? And that's something very large and slammy be
encircling beneath me. I was like, you got a kidney.
I didn't die jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge and
a shark is gonna eat me alive? It was no shark.
(38:20):
I went on a television program sometime later, on ABC News.
I said, on the show, I thought the which is
a shark beneath me in the water? People wrote it
into the show from all over the world when I
went viral online. One man's letter stuck out above all
the rest. I'm talking about Italy, Japan, Ireland, China, UK.
Everybody wrote it. One man's letter stuck out. He was
(38:41):
from Las Vegas, Nevada. He was on the bridge that
day with his mom. His name was Morgan, and he
said Kevin in his letter to me, Kevin, I'm so
very glad you're alive. I was standing less than two
feet away from you when you jumps, and so this
day watching this show, no one would tell me whether
you lived or It's haunted me until right now watching
(39:03):
this show. By the way, Kevin, there was no shark
like you mentioned your thought there was on the show,
but there absolutely was a sea lion, and the people
above looking down believe that this sea lion is keeping
me afloat until the coast Stuard border ride behind me.
And he's now a mascot. I call him Herbert, and
(39:24):
he saved my life. God saved my life through that
sea lion. Just think about it. The whole day. No
human being can stop me. The whole day on the
bus ride, no human being reaches out, but a creature
that doesn't even speak my language saves my life and
(39:50):
was in the position in the water to do so
at the moment in which I needed it most. If
the woman hadn't asked me to take a picture, the
timing would have been all off. It all came into play,
and then at the hospital, one of the foremost backed
surgeons in the world was visiting the hospital for the day.
(40:12):
Doctor Jonathan Levin did my surgery. My ten and a
half hour back surgery were replacing my shattered vertebrae with titanium.
I missed that day, severing my spinal cord by two
millimeters day, two millimeters away from certain death. There's nothing
(40:35):
to do here but praise the Lord. No one can
tell me that God does not exist. People that tell
me that, I just feel sorry for them that they
don't have the faith I have.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Oh, man, care I'm sitting here, man, because I know
this is gonna bless so many people. Because as I'm
as I'm listening to you, I'm sitting here saying, we're
doing a show with two survivors. How beautiful is that
(41:21):
that we could not have even been here and no
one would no one would have known our story. And
to think about the timing of just like how all
of that happened for you and and just I'm just
sitting here and just thinking about the journey. And I'm
(41:42):
sure that's just snippets, but the journey of healing that
you've had to walk through and navigate through, and the courage.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
To get something off my chest. The last three days
I've been really tough. I've been having thoughts of taking
my life, but I will never ever attempt again so
(42:20):
long as I shall live. It's not mine to take.
God gave it to me. I understand that now. And
I have a two pronged technique I want to share
with your audience that will always keep them right here,
(42:41):
can I share it? Helly in the camera. If you
are contemplating leaving this earth by your hands, stop breathe
to forty resonance threads. It'll bring your nerves to a calm.
(43:07):
You'll think clearly. Again. Two things can stop you. Find
a mirror and a mirror anywhere. Look in that mirror,
say these words. My thoughts do not have to become
my actions. They can simply be my thoughts if they're
(43:27):
dangerous to myself or others. My thoughts do not have
to become my actions. They can simply be my thoughts
if they're dangerous to myself or others. Number two, and
the most important thing you must do right now is
turn to anyone willing to listen and say four simple
but very effective words, I need help now. And the
(43:51):
difference between us Jay and people who pass on by
suicide is that we don't stop turning to people until
one human being is willing to answer the call. In
twenty five years, it'll be September twenty fifth, coming up
the day I left off that bridge in the year
twenty so twenty five years, next month, this month, this month,
(44:15):
yea so twenty five years this month on September twenty fifth,
it'll be twenty five years since I left off the
Golden gate Bridge. Don't learn the hard way like I did.
Ask for help until you get what you so desire
and so deserve. Suicide is never the solution to your problem.
(44:38):
It is the problem. Suicide ideations are the greatest liars
we know. Don't listen to them. You're meant to be
here until your natural end. Never ever ever to die
by your hands. You're a thermodynamic miracle. You're one in
four hundred tillion. You're meant to be here.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
And I love you, Kevin all as you were sitting
there man, when you was talking about I don't think
people realize to the reality of what our journey is
after we survived. I don't share how often the thoughts come.
(45:17):
They come often because the enemy knows who we are
now because we survived. So I often feel you ever
feel like there's a target on your back, and not
by the world, but they're targing by.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Him, the enemy, all the time. I hear him.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
I talked about this earlier with my sister when she
interviewed me, and we was kind of talking about the
day that my second attempt and I was telling her,
you know, the forces never stopped. They never stopped. They
may become faint, but they're there, yeah, and you and
(46:01):
you hear them in the distance. And what I've learned
to do, man, is as much as I possibly can, man,
is to get around people that care about me.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Is to get around people, man, because it's definitely, it's
it's definitely the best solution, man, is to be around
people who love me. And then to be around people
who who you can be vulnerable with. They say, Man,
today is a rough day.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
And usually that's my lovely wife, Margaret, And she's got
my back end. And you know, I told her what
I was going through and and she just having me.
She doesn't need to fix my problems. I just needed
to listen and understand how to respond and and and
and through that we heal, you know, and we pray,
we heal, and we just talk about it, you know,
(46:57):
and get through it.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
She has has Margaret been a great asset to your
and she's my rock.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
I mean, look, you know, we're we're about to make
a movie about our life story, our love story. And
I met Margaret in the oddest of places. She was
visiting her cousin in the psyche where I was staying in,
you know, and through all that, through the through the
worst moment of my life, she saw the beauty in me.
(47:27):
And this is our nineteenth year Mary.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
You know I collabor with that to that name. No wow, Brother,
God is good man. When I tell you, brother, I
love you man too, and I love you for sharing
your story, your journey. I'm processing everything because again, like
(47:54):
I said, I never knew the full story. I heard
this and pieces, and I remember hearing the story of
the part about the hands leaving years ago. I was
up one night on YouTube and came across a God
that was doing a talk. And that part never left me,
you know, because I didn't. It's just never that that
(48:16):
part of the story never left me, you know, because
I can remember times where I've sat with the gun
on the table and all of that type of stuff. Man,
it broke. People don't even realize, man, that not only
does the enemy knows who you are, he also knows
(48:36):
how to use your pain against you. If you're not aware,
and if you are not around people that see you
and see what God has placed in you, you'll find
yourself being pushed up against the wall with the very
pain that you are trying to get away from, and
(48:57):
in a corner you and that's what the enemy looks
to do. And so I'm grateful man that my audience
got to meet Kevin Hines, got to hear the story,
got to see the man, but also feel the man,
because brother, you're a beautiful human being to take your story,
(49:18):
to take your journey, and to share the most intimate
details of your life with the world. Because what people
don't realize is that when we give it to the world,
we give a part of us and some will take it,
and some will we'll sit with it, but then there
(49:39):
will be some that will say, man, I don't want
to be here, but I saw you two brothers share
on journey. And what I am blessed to say to
sit here to say today, Man, it's not only are
we surviving, Kevin, we thriving. And that's all I ever
wanted to be. All I ever wanted to do, man,
(49:59):
was just thrive and find out why am I here?
That was the most important thing that I asked God
when I survived that overdose. I was just like when
I came to myself, like the prodigal son came to
myself consciously, I just said, God, I just want to
know why am I here? Because I'd had this fascination
(50:21):
with death for the longest. I used to write poetry
about it. I used to write short story. Man, I
have so many stories about leaving here, leaving this behind,
living in the life is pain free. Because in my mind,
I was like, why I want to wait till I'm eighty.
Get me out of here now, because if I got
(50:41):
to wait till i'm agent, I got to carry all
this because nobody told us that we can let it go.
Nobody tells men that they can let go of their pain,
because we're often judged by how much pain can we bear?
How strong are you? How much can you tell? And
what we're doing is telling men don't have to take it,
(51:03):
let it go. So brother, thank you man, and I
mean it from a bottom of my heart. Thank you
for sharing yourself with the world, and thank you for staying.
Because I'm not going to say on camera because I'm processing,
but you just helped me with something today that I
(51:26):
have been sitting with because I often ask myself what
is the purpose of staying? And I'm changing lives? But
I often ask myself, and that's a real question. So man,
(51:46):
thank you brother for today. Any last words, Man.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
I think I just you know, I just want to
say to everybody that has that void in their chest,
someday you will fill it. With time, energy, effort, and
hard work. Things will change. They'll get better, but only
(52:16):
if you make them do the work, put in the effort,
put in the time. You got this. We believe in you,
and reach out and when you need people to reach
in and tell them so they know so they get
your back.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah, listen, today was a heavy one but much needed.
The timing of Kevin and I connected, I don't think
is by happenstance. We're living in some very unprecedented times
where people are feeling pressured from the political climate, from
(52:59):
finance difficulties, mental health crisis. Is that are all time high,
Relationships are unstable, jobs are not promising. There's a lot
that is going on. And I don't know if you're
like me, sometimes you just exhausted from just even hearing news.
(53:20):
You don't even have to watch news today to feel it.
You can just hear something. But what we're hoping is
from today's episode that you feel encouraged to stay that
wherever you are, whatever darknesses that you in, hopefully that
this episode brings you some light for you to see
(53:42):
to the other side of see on, see through, see beyond,
to know that you're more than just what you're going through.
I don't know where you are, I don't know what
is happening. I don't know who said it. I don't
know what they apologize. I don't know if you would
ever get an apology, but I do know what you deserve.
(54:04):
You deserve to give yourself a chance to keep living.
And that is my prayer. That is my hope, that
you don't lose hope in your tomorrow and that you
choose you today again. If you know anyone that is
struggling with suicidal thoughts, someone that has shared their contemplation
(54:25):
and they've even said that they have the means to
carry it out, please pick up the hotline. Pick up
the phone they call the nonine eight eight hotline. There
are resources, there are individuals, and there are people who care.
And I'm not saying that it's going to be fixed today,
but what I am saying that you can get to
(54:47):
the other side. And it's a journey and until next time.
Healing is a journey and wholeness is the destination. Just
Here with Doctor J, a production of the Black Effect
podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
(55:08):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
And you can follow me at King J. Barnett on
Instagram and x and follow us on YouTube. Just here,
Doctor J.
Suicide is one of the leading causes of death in
the United States. Over forty nine thousand people died by
suicide in twenty twenty three, and there's one death every
eleven minutes. The suicide rate among males in twenty twenty
three was approximately four times higher than the rate among females.
Males make up fifty percent of the population but nearly
(00:24):
eighty percent of suicide. If you know anyone that may
be struggling with suicidal thoughts or have shared their contemplations
of suicide, I urge you to call None eight eight,
the Suicide Prevention Hotline. Welcome to Jess Hell with Doctor J,
a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio.
(00:48):
Welcome back to another episode of Just Hell with Doctor J.
And I am your host, Doctor J Barnett. Listen. Before
we get started, I want to encourage you to hit
that subscribe button, like, please share what we're doing over
here at the Healing Pod, Healing Community, healing Circle, whatever
works for you. Just know that we're doing some healing.
So September is Suicide Prevention Month, and all month of
(01:13):
September we have individuals that have survived suicide attempt and
as myself sharing my story, but I also brought some
other individuals that have some amazing, powerful stories. I'm not
only just surviving, but also they're thriving in life now.
So before we introduce our next guests, I want to
(01:36):
caution the viewers that you may hear something that may
be triggering. I want to caution the viewers that you
may hear something that may be very difficult to process.
But I wanted people that can share their stories and
share their truth and be transparent about their journey. And
if you know someone and I'm taking my time very
(01:58):
intentionally by sharing what I'm sharing because I don't want
to be insensitive and don't want a gloss over because
I'm trying to stick to the program. Sometime it's okay
to come off a program. But if you know someone
that is struggling with suicide and ideation, someone that is
maybe struggling in life, they may have shared something that
didn't sound good with you. I want to encourage you
(02:19):
to call nine eight eight, which is a suicide prevention hotline.
I'm hoping that this episode encourage you that if you
are in a dark place, there is a possibility to
discover light. And when you discover light, you find a
reason to live. So I'm honored to have my brother
(02:40):
friend advocate and you have seen his story, some of
you heard it. I've always have clicked off the video
when I see Kevin because I wanted to hear it
for myself, because I've never heard it for myself. I
wanted to hear his story up close and personals. So
I'm excited to have my brother and friend, Kevin Hines
(03:04):
here all the way from the Bay Area by way
of Atlanta. Man, Kevin, brother, it is good to have
you here. Man, Man, dude, we have been on a
lot of platforms together, but I've never heard your story
in totality. I've always kind of come in on bits
and pieces. But today I want to get an up
(03:24):
close view of hearing your story, hearing your triumph. But
also I want the audience, my audience that have not heard,
that have not come across your story, your message, that
what you share with the world today. Man, So welcome
man to the Healing Circle. Some people like healing circle
(03:46):
healing pod. Huh. It's a welcome brother.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I love what you're doing, Jay, doctor j The Just
Hell Bro movement is phenomenal. I remember when you gave
me your book all those years ago. If there was
a gift, I shared it with some folks on my end.
They appreciated it. And I'll tell you it's been a
long road, right, you know. I want to go back
if I can, to the very beginning, because that's where
(04:11):
all stories start. I was born in abject poverty in
the worst neighborhood in San Francisco, the Tenyloin District, then
the worst neighboro there today. I was born and lived
in and out of crack motels. My birth parents, as
I'm adopted, after they had me and my brother ten
months apart he was older, they succumbed to hardcore drugs
(04:33):
and alcohol. My father, Martino, was half Mexican, half Italian.
My mother, Marcia, came from Saint Mary, Jamaica, and she
was Jamaican, African, airwalk Indian, Portuguese. And they came together
and they fell madly in love in the nineteen seventies
in San Francisco. But they had no money, they had
(04:57):
no wherewithal and they had seemingly no fuel future. But
they had two baby boys that they couldn't take care of. Wow,
and they would leave me and my brother. According to
the documents we'd received later from CPS, they would leave
me and my brother in these crack motels, lying next
to dangerous drug paraphernalia, sharp metal objects, had we touched,
(05:18):
could have killed us. And we were living on a
box spring for a mattress over a concrete slab floor
in these places. Had we, as infants, had fallen to
the concrete slab floor easily would crafted heads open and die.
And they would leave us unattended, day by day, night
by night, all day long, every day to go do
score and sell drugs and jay. It's my understanding that
(05:40):
my poor birth mother might have had to sell herself.
That was our life, and it changed all of a
sudden when one day, one very CD motel clerk made
what I can only call his most unseedy decision. He
called the police, and he called CPS, and they came
in and they kind of barreled down the door, and
(06:02):
they swooped me and my brother up, smelling sour and
putrid of her own filth from neglect. We had all
these ubiquitous ulcers on our backs, burning through our skin
from our own filth, and it was really bad. And
of course they placed us directly into the system foster care,
a broken system, then a broken system now and my
brother I bounced around from home to home, and there
(06:25):
was one very simple idea that he and I were
to be adopted together, but of course you know that's
not what happened. We bounced around originally for a while together,
and then in a home filled with neglects more neglect,
we both contracted a vicious strain of bronchitis, and my
only full blooded brother, George Ash may he rest in peace,
(06:46):
died right next to me.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Man, how old were you at that time?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Well, if he was ten months older than me, this
must have been. To be honest, I don't have the details,
but I just know I know the documents that he
died next to me. Then they removed me from that
home and placed me into what would become my first
(07:10):
good foster home because I do exist right, And this
was the Muller family, who I want to give a
big shout out to Peter and Debura. Muller took in
kids from all over. They were transition home. He couldn't
stay there, but they had so many children twelve months
to twelve years of age. Pandemonium in that household, but
they loved their foster children like they were their own.
It was incredible, but you couldn't stay. And one very
(07:34):
faithful day, a lovely young woman named Deborah Johan Hines
walked in their door. And you know my last name Jay,
so this works out. She took me in along with
Patrick Kevin Hines, my eventual namesake. My birth name was
not Kevin Hines. That's my adopted white name. My biological
name is Giovanni gebrae arad Fadlis. Try to saying that
(07:57):
ten times fast.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
He got me.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
But but they took me in, and they had taken
in a girl from a different family, Elizabeth. And after
they took me, and they took in a young boy
named Joseph who was actually we got him and he
was born. He was born less than two pounds premature,
did to the crack cocaine. And so you've got me,
the mixed kid. My brother black, my sister white, Patton,
(08:22):
w Irish and German. People were confused and we end
up after these all of us having three separate very
traumatic infancies. Very traumatic. My my sister Elizabeth, her her
birth mom had multiple personality disorder. Many different children from
many different men. It was it was it was a
(08:42):
it was a it was chaos and Patton Debbie. You know, Uh,
there's no other way to put it. They saved our lives.
And growing up, I thought I got this. They had
made in the shade. How can anything go south from here?
Where was that?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Rock? Man? So your story man, and I'm following you.
It's almost as you're talking, Kevin, it's like I'm watching
a movie because I see in pictures and I'm seeing
the pictures of the high moments where you finally two
(09:23):
brothers get to get a home, and then I'm seeing
this low moment. You wake up one day and you're like,
where's my other half? And I'm sure from a state
of unconscious and consciousness, you know, like not even knowing
that your brother, you know, it's not even alive. And
I'm thinking about now you get to place your place
(09:47):
in this home, your place in a home that's loving.
But now it's another dynamic. So as you navigated through
all of these different dynamics, what was something that really
stuck out to you? Because as you're telling the story,
it's like the movies getting ready to shift to get Yeah,
you know.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Jay from the moment I could understand words, comprehension, identity,
there was a void in my chest. All I wanted
my whole life Jay growing up. As much as I
love my mom and dad Paton Debbi Hind who took
me and made me their stuck, all I ever wanted
(10:28):
was to find my mom RCM and tell her three words,
I love you. And the tragic part of all this
is that at about twenty three years of age, I
went searching for my birth mom and I was two
(10:49):
years too late, meaning that I went searching for her.
I found details about her, and I found out that
I had a brother and a birth sister. I never
knew my birth mom. Marcilla had a family before mine,
before she met Martino. She was from Florida, and she
(11:11):
was married to another man, and she had two kids
with that man. And one day she walked out on
them and never came back. Wow, And she left my brother,
he and I actually we learned to show the exact
same birthday ten years apart. And she walked these older
and she walked away and she never came back. And
she made her way across the country like the hitchhiking
(11:35):
things like that, to San Francisco, met Martino. My father
had us and all I ever wanted was to meet
her and tell her I loved her. And it turned
out that and this is very tragic. Two years prior
to me finding the story out, she had been seven
years sober. My sister had found her in San Francisco,
(11:58):
had gotten her seven years sober, and then one day,
apparently she went back on drugs and ended up getting
hit by a tow truck, losing her right leg to
an amputation caused by complications of the injury, and she
passed away due to those complications. I don't know if
(12:21):
it was a suicide attempt, Jay, but it was awful
to hear about. But the silver lining is that one
day I get this. I call that number that I
found and I remember it vividly. G I said, Hi,
my sister's name is Shica. I said, hi, Shehika. My
name is Kevin. Well, my name was Giovanni, And I go,
(12:42):
I'm your brother, call me. Would you call that guy?
He's gonna who's gonna call that guy?
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So two years go by, two more years go by,
and uh, she sees me on twenty twenty with John Stossel,
and she goes, I think that's my brother. And she
goes back, gets that phone master's and calls my phone number.
I have the same phone number.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Wow, she calls me.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I'm answering the phone. I'm in the kitchen cooking a
culinary specialty of mine, spam with honey mustard, and and
she says, hello, is this Cheetavannie? And nobody calls me
that Jay? So I was like, is this sheikha? And
(13:22):
she goes, how many shikahs do you know? I said,
I got to meet you right now, and she goes, WHOA,
I don't know you. I said, she can have been
looking for you my whole life. Please. I need to
meet my family, please, And she said okay. Starbucks on
fourteen you loa in half an hour. I was there
(13:43):
in fifteen minutes. I ran there.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
And I'm waiting there and there's these two police officers
on their motorbikes in front of Starbucks eating donuts. It
was like classic. And I'm walking back and forth talking
to myself and they're like, sir, are you okay? And
I was like, no, I'm good for my sister. It's
gonna be amazing. It's a gift from God, and like,
we don't want to know your whole life story. We
just want to know you're not a threat to this Starbucks.
(14:06):
I'm fine, calm down. So she comes around the corner,
the uncanny resemblance of our mom.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Wow, looks just.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Like her, just like her. And and without even knowing
my half of the story, not without even knowing what
I wanted from my mom, those three words, she embelloces
me in her arms and she says, I love you.
And it was like Jay was like the void disappeared.
(14:35):
It disappeared like that, and we walked into Star Wars
and we sat down and had some tea. And this
was the part that really got me. She handed me
a metal tin of cats that are used to be
our moms. It was a bunch of letters and things
from our moms, some of the things she had remaining.
(14:59):
And I picked up immediately this Christmas card list, like
a list of who to write Christmas cards to. And
I'm reading the names on the list and I see
the name Fred Klink. I was like my art teacher
in art one on one at City College in the
year two thousand before I left off the Golden Gate
bridge was Fred Kling. How many Fred Klings are there
(15:19):
in the world in San Francisco. He was a good
friend of mine. A matter of fact, he had stopped
me from taking my life once. So after I see
my sister, I call a Fred, my Fred, can you
call me back? He calls me. I say, Fred, do
you know a woman named Marcia? I named her last name,
and he he said, Kevin, watn'ch you meet me for lunch.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I go meet Fred for lunch and he looks at
me says, how do you know her? I said, Fred,
she's my mom. How do you know her? And he said, Kevin,
she was in my art one on one class an
hour block after you. The same year, when I was
(16:06):
walking out of my class, she was walking in. We
shared the same argonne the same air. Come on, Kevin,
I'm serious what we shared the same air. I likely
passed her not even knowing it was her.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
And I was enraged that I missed her. And then
I and then I prayed, and I said, hold on,
what a gift. We breathed the same air for those moments.
Every day during that one semester, we.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Been going to class and not even saying it. Didn't
even know it when when when Fred gives you that
information and you are enraged, well, going through your mind that, man,
I was passing so many women up and not knowing
(17:07):
that one of them that I was passing was my mom.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Initially just overwhelming, unrelenting pain, pure pain. But then hope
and yes for my grandmother, my birth grandmother's name is.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Hope. Wow, man, Kevin you I'm sitting here man, the
strength and vulnerability that it's not that you're displaying, it's
(18:00):
you actually live in this space. How are you so hopeful?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Man?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Because I want to And as you answer, is because
no one really knows the story that day. Now, I
heard the story nationally, but I never knew it was
your story even when I met him, because I heard
about the story of the Golden Gate, but I never
(18:32):
knew that it was your story. And how is it
that you still have hope? And I want to go
back to that day?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, you know, Doc, I have hope every day because.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
I have to. I feel the same.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I have hope because the multitude in the multifaceted struggle
as I've been through, are never going to defeat me.
You can let one of two things happen. You can
let one of two things happen when you're in lethal
(19:16):
emotional pain. You can let a defeat or destroy you,
or you can let it build you from the ground
up until you're stronger than ever. I choose the latter. No,
I wasn't always that way. I grew up. At seventeen,
(19:36):
my brain just broke. I had a complete mental breakdown
on stage in a theater show in front of a
sold out crowd of twelve hundred people. I was one
of the leads in the show. I believed that twelve
hundred people were going to simultaneously rise rest the stage
and end my life. In extreme paroid delusion, I ran
off the stage, had to go see my first psychiatrist,
(19:59):
was placed on it. Cations, wasn't really taking them properly,
was drinking while on psych meds, blocking out an alcohol.
It was a mess. And fast forward to nineteen. That's
when the first thoughts of taking my life came into play.
(20:22):
And it wasn't so much a thought like we think thoughts.
It was more of an auditory hallucination in my head
telling me what I had to do, yeah, telling me
I had no other option, that it was in fact
inevitable that I had no choice in the matter. And
I want to make a point to people who are
struggling with these thoughts and to those that love them,
is that your loved ones don't want to die by suicide.
(20:46):
They believe they have to. And there's a categorical difference
between the two if you can reach them in time
and ask those very detailed questions that are hard to ask.
Are you thinking of killing yourself? Have you made plans
to take it? And do you have the means? Those
three questions are category They're proven to save lives because
(21:09):
they cut past the nonsense and they show people who
are in pain that the pain shared is the pain had.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, but I didn't.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I didn't know that back then. We didn't know that
back then.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Me neither, because the pain is is, dude, It's it's
almost like it's almost like bench pressing and all of
a sudden your arms give out and you can't get
it off your chest. Yeah, that's what it feels like.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
That is what it feels like.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
You penned, you pined for you. The voices was for
me auditory as well, but I had replay of just
things that have happened not only in my childhood, but
just the things that I heard that somebody has said
to me. You know, did your auditory voices connect to pictures?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
One of the things is to answer your question. Yes.
One of the things that I've learned is that when
you have self loathing, yourself hating her, or you have
the voices in your head to tell you have to
take your life. Those voices didn't come from you. They
came from all the spiteful, hateful, rageful, violent, mean, negative,
(22:30):
abusive things that have been centered down to you by others.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
They came from trauma.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
And when I was in grade school, I was bullied
to no end a because I was small, be more
importantly because I was the only part black kid in
the school, and these kids made it known that I
did not belong there. Every single day, the eighth graders
(23:02):
would take me as a fourth grader and beat me up.
I was a child. A kid named Mike would get
in front of me and push me over, a kid
named Tony. I'd crack my head open on the concrete
and bleed when they would call me little red end word.
Every day. That was my life. So I grew up
hating myself because everyone else hated there or pretended they did,
(23:23):
or whatever it was. And I've forgiven them now, no
ill will and I'm not complaining. I'm not a no victim,
no victim. But it was brutal, and at nineteen, those
turned into voices in my head. Yes that told me
what I had to do to myself. And I ended
up making my way out to the Golden Gate Bridge
(23:44):
on a bus, crying my eyes out, hoping, wishing and
praying jay that one person would see me, see my
pain and say something kind m because if someone reached
out and said, hey, kidd are you okay? Brother? Something wrong?
Or pow, can I help you? I would have told
him everything, begged him to save me. But the only
(24:06):
person on that bus to say anything to me when
the bus got to the Golden Gate Bridge parking lot
and one hundred people deboarded was the driver, who stood
turned and said, come on, can't get off the bus.
I gotta go. I walked up to that man, I
looked him right in the eyes as waterfalls were flowing
from mine, and he just motioned for me to get
(24:26):
off the bus, and I walked across the two mile
stretch of walkway is the ninth wonder of the world,
the Golden gate Bridge and all its courious beauty. And
after forty minutes of pacing back and forth, I found
a light rail on that rail, Jay, somebody had carved
(24:49):
into the rail jump aw. A woman from my left
approached me. I prayed she was gonna, asked me if
I was okay. I couldn't say it aloud. I needed
(25:10):
someone to reach in, and she said, will you take
my pictus? And I had to smile a little bit
like okay, terrible timing. I took her pretty sure, she
posed several times, and she walked away. At that moment,
(25:32):
I told myself the single greatest lie any of us
had ever told. Absolutely nobody cares the furthest thing from
the truth, any member of my family, every one of
my friends. Jay, if you had been there that day,
(25:53):
seen nineteen year old young me leaning over that reil crying,
you would have done something about it. People care, Yeah,
people care. I couldn't see it.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
We never can. I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
At that moment, the voice yelled, and I mean back
in that at decimals you can't express without piercing ear drumps,
jump now, and I did. But the moment, the millisecond
my hands left the rail, instantaneous regret for my actions,
and then one recognition that I just made the greatest
(26:32):
mistake of my life. And it was too late, because
for ninety nine point nine percent of the people that
have done exactly what I did that day off that bridge,
it's been too late. They're all gone.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I want a pause to because I heard that story
by way. One night I was watching YouTube and a
guy was telling the story about a young man who
jumped off the bridge, and he said the young man said,
(27:15):
the moment his hands left the rail, he regretted it.
I never forgot that care when I didn't know that
was you. And I told that story so many times
when I and as with you and I both speak
a lot about suicide prevention and sharing a story, and
(27:36):
I often talk about how most people, when they attempt,
I often wonder if they can go back, those who
have exceeded, if they can go back and undo because
of the instant regret, because the decision is so finite.
(27:58):
And as I'm hearing you tell it now and I'm
hearing it in real time from you, man, it hits
different because people often ask me like, man, Jay, did
you ever regretted? And mine's wasn't because I was with
my godmother. So had I had a gun, definitely, it
(28:21):
would have been definitely by a gunshot. But because I
was living with her, I didn't want her to see
that type of picture to where she has to walk
in the room and see that scene in her head.
But to think about your life now and to think
(28:45):
about to hear how you say, man, once my hands left,
and the thought of just like man, what have I done?
And I'm thinking about all of those who didn't survive.
I want to ask you this, man, and this is
(29:07):
for me, do you ever have survivor's guilt?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I used to not anymore. Yeah, I got to live
to talk to you right now. Somebody is going to
see this and it won't move them to stay.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
God me. God gave me a second chance, a purpose.
We us a second chance so that others can never
learn the hard way like we did. Yeah, And so
they choose life so they can stay. And every time,
(30:05):
every time a young one or all the light chooses
life because of our mission, God is smiling upon us,
and so is everyone we lost my birth mom, my
birth dad, my birth brother, my favorite teacher who killed himself.
(30:25):
He was he was my friend, he was my hero.
He was like a second father figure to me. Everybody
up there who went before us too soon is sending
us the light we need to do this work.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
It's definitely that care, because you actually just gave me
some I used to battle with survivors guilt man all
the time. I mean all the time, and it's something
that I've recently have really overcame. I remember when Charlamagne
called me and I had to go to do this
(31:07):
show when Twitch passed, and man, it was I cried, man,
that thing that that thing hit me. Man, So man,
okay right now it was.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
His life was so bright.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And you know after that, I stopped posting when a
famous person would take their life, I stopped stopped. I
stopped getting involved in the story, stopped. I couldn't couldn't
do it. And I said, the family is in so
much pain, and everybody and their mother is commenting about it.
They don't need all that, and uh but I think
(31:56):
about all that and all the like, you know, Jay,
I have lost twenty two people. Now, twenty two people
to suicide. That's twenty two too many. One is one
too many. And you know what, I sit here and
I go Who's next? Who that I love is next?
Speaker 1 (32:16):
You know?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
There was a woman I'll say her name because everyone
knows who she's Amy Blue helped found the Semi Colon
projects years ago, Big suicide French organization still runs. And
she fought to live for a very long time and
she would pick different people to help her fight to live.
And one time, for about a year, she picked me
(32:42):
and we talked every day and every day I was
keeping her from taking her life. It was a battle.
It was like it was like battling a demon, and
it was telling her to tell her life. And every
day I'd keep her here every day. And then one
day I got the call she was gone. All that
hard work, all that effort, it just broke me and
(33:05):
I had to pause on work for a while.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I couldn't nor.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Here. Man. It's so heavy, man, this work that we
do bro last. Was it about a year ago? That
was a kid that family was working. A family wanted
me to work with him. And I was on the
road and I think I was on tour. I was
on tour at the time, and they were reaching out.
(33:32):
And when I'm on tour, man, you know, you're so
you're so locked in because we got two or three
hundred men showing up, so I got to be available
for these men. So you know, they was trying to,
you know, get the kid in to see me. And
I kept telling him, hey, you know, when I get home,
I bade it work with him and see him. So
(33:54):
when I finally got a chance to get home and
finally get a chance to stop, I get the call
and Bro, when I tell you man, when she said,
missus Jay, he's gone, and I said huh. And I
was baffled because I was just like, no, no, no way,
(34:15):
But he's sixteen years old. She said he's gone. I said,
what do you mean he's going? She said, he took
his life and he was waiting on you. And Bro,
he tell you something, Kevin. When I tell you man,
that thing put me in a prison. Yeah, for about
(34:39):
a year, and I never said anything. And then too,
the thoughts came back for me because I'm like, how
could I have stopped to me? Yeah, And then I
was upset because I'm like, well, God, you gave me
this purpose, and you got me out here working with
these men. But working with these men made me not
(35:01):
be available for this young man. Had I been home,
this young man would still be here and brought it
was the most daunting that'll eat you alive, man, Jay.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Every suicide, any suicide that you're connected to, these are
the words you have to say. They didn't die because
of me or in spite of me. They died because
of a lethal emotional pain that had nothing to do
with me. Every person has lost someone this way. It's
(35:46):
not your weight to carry, yeah, because it'll crush you.
But back to that day. You're talking about two hundred
and twenty feet above the water, twenty five stories. You
fall at eighty miles prior total velocity in four seconds.
(36:11):
These were the words that I said in my head
as I fell very rapidly. What have I just thought?
And I want to die? God, please save me. You
hid it fifteen thousand pounds of pressure. People think you
(36:32):
die on impact. You don't. You die very slowly and
very violently. I went down forty feet. I opened my
eyes and I was drowning, and I didn't want to.
I frantically moved in any direction I was going the
wrong way. I was going down. My eyes began to bulge,
my ears began to ring because of the pressure. I
(36:53):
shot for the surface as fast as my arms were taken.
I couldn't fill my legs, but they were working. I
broke the surface. I bobbed up and down in the water,
and I did the one thing I've got control over
since kindergarten. I prayed, God, please save me. I don't
want to die. God, please save me. I don't want
to die. I made a mistake. Jay, you know he
(37:15):
heard me. A woman driving by in a red car
saw me go over the rail at the moment of
my attempt, called her coworker in the United States Coastguard,
who were manning the waters of the bridge at that moment.
The only reason the Coastguard boat arrived to my position
(37:37):
in the water before I was to drown. That woman's
phone call in the water. I flil to stay afoot.
I go down. My boots are heavy, my long sleeved
clothing is heavy. I can't keep it. I can't get
back up to the surface. I go down one more time.
I think this is it. This is where I go.
Nobody's coming to save me. I die here today. What
(37:59):
did I do? I don't want to die. What have
I done? And that's something very large and slammy be
encircling beneath me. I was like, you got a kidney.
I didn't die jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge and
a shark is gonna eat me alive? It was no shark.
(38:20):
I went on a television program sometime later, on ABC News.
I said, on the show, I thought the which is
a shark beneath me in the water? People wrote it
into the show from all over the world when I
went viral online. One man's letter stuck out above all
the rest. I'm talking about Italy, Japan, Ireland, China, UK.
Everybody wrote it. One man's letter stuck out. He was
(38:41):
from Las Vegas, Nevada. He was on the bridge that
day with his mom. His name was Morgan, and he
said Kevin in his letter to me, Kevin, I'm so
very glad you're alive. I was standing less than two
feet away from you when you jumps, and so this
day watching this show, no one would tell me whether
you lived or It's haunted me until right now watching
(39:03):
this show. By the way, Kevin, there was no shark
like you mentioned your thought there was on the show,
but there absolutely was a sea lion, and the people
above looking down believe that this sea lion is keeping
me afloat until the coast Stuard border ride behind me.
And he's now a mascot. I call him Herbert, and
(39:24):
he saved my life. God saved my life through that
sea lion. Just think about it. The whole day. No
human being can stop me. The whole day on the
bus ride, no human being reaches out, but a creature
that doesn't even speak my language saves my life and
(39:50):
was in the position in the water to do so
at the moment in which I needed it most. If
the woman hadn't asked me to take a picture, the
timing would have been all off. It all came into play,
and then at the hospital, one of the foremost backed
surgeons in the world was visiting the hospital for the day.
(40:12):
Doctor Jonathan Levin did my surgery. My ten and a
half hour back surgery were replacing my shattered vertebrae with titanium.
I missed that day, severing my spinal cord by two
millimeters day, two millimeters away from certain death. There's nothing
(40:35):
to do here but praise the Lord. No one can
tell me that God does not exist. People that tell
me that, I just feel sorry for them that they
don't have the faith I have.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Oh, man, care I'm sitting here, man, because I know
this is gonna bless so many people. Because as I'm
as I'm listening to you, I'm sitting here saying, we're
doing a show with two survivors. How beautiful is that
(41:21):
that we could not have even been here and no
one would no one would have known our story. And
to think about the timing of just like how all
of that happened for you and and just I'm just
sitting here and just thinking about the journey. And I'm
(41:42):
sure that's just snippets, but the journey of healing that
you've had to walk through and navigate through, and the courage.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
To get something off my chest. The last three days
I've been really tough. I've been having thoughts of taking
my life, but I will never ever attempt again so
(42:20):
long as I shall live. It's not mine to take.
God gave it to me. I understand that now. And
I have a two pronged technique I want to share
with your audience that will always keep them right here,
(42:41):
can I share it? Helly in the camera. If you
are contemplating leaving this earth by your hands, stop breathe
to forty resonance threads. It'll bring your nerves to a calm.
(43:07):
You'll think clearly. Again. Two things can stop you. Find
a mirror and a mirror anywhere. Look in that mirror,
say these words. My thoughts do not have to become
my actions. They can simply be my thoughts if they're
(43:27):
dangerous to myself or others. My thoughts do not have
to become my actions. They can simply be my thoughts
if they're dangerous to myself or others. Number two, and
the most important thing you must do right now is
turn to anyone willing to listen and say four simple
but very effective words, I need help now. And the
(43:51):
difference between us Jay and people who pass on by
suicide is that we don't stop turning to people until
one human being is willing to answer the call. In
twenty five years, it'll be September twenty fifth, coming up
the day I left off that bridge in the year
twenty so twenty five years, next month, this month, this month,
(44:15):
yea so twenty five years this month on September twenty fifth,
it'll be twenty five years since I left off the
Golden gate Bridge. Don't learn the hard way like I did.
Ask for help until you get what you so desire
and so deserve. Suicide is never the solution to your problem.
(44:38):
It is the problem. Suicide ideations are the greatest liars
we know. Don't listen to them. You're meant to be
here until your natural end. Never ever ever to die
by your hands. You're a thermodynamic miracle. You're one in
four hundred tillion. You're meant to be here.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
And I love you, Kevin all as you were sitting
there man, when you was talking about I don't think
people realize to the reality of what our journey is
after we survived. I don't share how often the thoughts come.
(45:17):
They come often because the enemy knows who we are
now because we survived. So I often feel you ever
feel like there's a target on your back, and not
by the world, but they're targing by.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Him, the enemy, all the time. I hear him.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
I talked about this earlier with my sister when she
interviewed me, and we was kind of talking about the
day that my second attempt and I was telling her,
you know, the forces never stopped. They never stopped. They
may become faint, but they're there, yeah, and you and
(46:01):
you hear them in the distance. And what I've learned
to do, man, is as much as I possibly can, man,
is to get around people that care about me.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Is to get around people, man, because it's definitely, it's
it's definitely the best solution, man, is to be around
people who love me. And then to be around people
who who you can be vulnerable with. They say, Man,
today is a rough day.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
And usually that's my lovely wife, Margaret, And she's got
my back end. And you know, I told her what
I was going through and and she just having me.
She doesn't need to fix my problems. I just needed
to listen and understand how to respond and and and
and through that we heal, you know, and we pray,
we heal, and we just talk about it, you know,
(46:57):
and get through it.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
She has has Margaret been a great asset to your
and she's my rock.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
I mean, look, you know, we're we're about to make
a movie about our life story, our love story. And
I met Margaret in the oddest of places. She was
visiting her cousin in the psyche where I was staying in,
you know, and through all that, through the through the
worst moment of my life, she saw the beauty in me.
(47:27):
And this is our nineteenth year Mary.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
You know I collabor with that to that name. No wow, Brother,
God is good man. When I tell you, brother, I
love you man too, and I love you for sharing
your story, your journey. I'm processing everything because again, like
(47:54):
I said, I never knew the full story. I heard
this and pieces, and I remember hearing the story of
the part about the hands leaving years ago. I was
up one night on YouTube and came across a God
that was doing a talk. And that part never left me,
you know, because I didn't. It's just never that that
(48:16):
part of the story never left me, you know, because
I can remember times where I've sat with the gun
on the table and all of that type of stuff. Man,
it broke. People don't even realize, man, that not only
does the enemy knows who you are, he also knows
(48:36):
how to use your pain against you. If you're not aware,
and if you are not around people that see you
and see what God has placed in you, you'll find
yourself being pushed up against the wall with the very
pain that you are trying to get away from, and
(48:57):
in a corner you and that's what the enemy looks
to do. And so I'm grateful man that my audience
got to meet Kevin Hines, got to hear the story,
got to see the man, but also feel the man,
because brother, you're a beautiful human being to take your story,
(49:18):
to take your journey, and to share the most intimate
details of your life with the world. Because what people
don't realize is that when we give it to the world,
we give a part of us and some will take it,
and some will we'll sit with it, but then there
(49:39):
will be some that will say, man, I don't want
to be here, but I saw you two brothers share
on journey. And what I am blessed to say to
sit here to say today, Man, it's not only are
we surviving, Kevin, we thriving. And that's all I ever
wanted to be. All I ever wanted to do, man,
(49:59):
was just thrive and find out why am I here?
That was the most important thing that I asked God
when I survived that overdose. I was just like when
I came to myself, like the prodigal son came to
myself consciously, I just said, God, I just want to
know why am I here? Because I'd had this fascination
(50:21):
with death for the longest. I used to write poetry
about it. I used to write short story. Man, I
have so many stories about leaving here, leaving this behind,
living in the life is pain free. Because in my mind,
I was like, why I want to wait till I'm eighty.
Get me out of here now, because if I got
(50:41):
to wait till i'm agent, I got to carry all
this because nobody told us that we can let it go.
Nobody tells men that they can let go of their pain,
because we're often judged by how much pain can we bear?
How strong are you? How much can you tell? And
what we're doing is telling men don't have to take it,
(51:03):
let it go. So brother, thank you man, and I
mean it from a bottom of my heart. Thank you
for sharing yourself with the world, and thank you for staying.
Because I'm not going to say on camera because I'm processing,
but you just helped me with something today that I
(51:26):
have been sitting with because I often ask myself what
is the purpose of staying? And I'm changing lives? But
I often ask myself, and that's a real question. So man,
(51:46):
thank you brother for today. Any last words, Man.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
I think I just you know, I just want to
say to everybody that has that void in their chest,
someday you will fill it. With time, energy, effort, and
hard work. Things will change. They'll get better, but only
(52:16):
if you make them do the work, put in the effort,
put in the time. You got this. We believe in you,
and reach out and when you need people to reach
in and tell them so they know so they get
your back.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah, listen, today was a heavy one but much needed.
The timing of Kevin and I connected, I don't think
is by happenstance. We're living in some very unprecedented times
where people are feeling pressured from the political climate, from
(52:59):
finance difficulties, mental health crisis. Is that are all time high,
Relationships are unstable, jobs are not promising. There's a lot
that is going on. And I don't know if you're
like me, sometimes you just exhausted from just even hearing news.
(53:20):
You don't even have to watch news today to feel it.
You can just hear something. But what we're hoping is
from today's episode that you feel encouraged to stay that
wherever you are, whatever darknesses that you in, hopefully that
this episode brings you some light for you to see
(53:42):
to the other side of see on, see through, see beyond,
to know that you're more than just what you're going through.
I don't know where you are, I don't know what
is happening. I don't know who said it. I don't
know what they apologize. I don't know if you would
ever get an apology, but I do know what you deserve.
(54:04):
You deserve to give yourself a chance to keep living.
And that is my prayer. That is my hope, that
you don't lose hope in your tomorrow and that you
choose you today again. If you know anyone that is
struggling with suicidal thoughts, someone that has shared their contemplation
(54:25):
and they've even said that they have the means to
carry it out, please pick up the hotline. Pick up
the phone they call the nonine eight eight hotline. There
are resources, there are individuals, and there are people who care.
And I'm not saying that it's going to be fixed today,
but what I am saying that you can get to
(54:47):
the other side. And it's a journey and until next time.
Healing is a journey and wholeness is the destination. Just
Here with Doctor J, a production of the Black Effect
podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
(55:08):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
And you can follow me at King J. Barnett on
Instagram and x and follow us on YouTube. Just here,
Doctor J.
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