June 3, 2025 • 48 mins
On this episode of JHWDJ, Dr. Jay sits with comedian, actor, filmmaker Lil Rel to explore the transformative journey of self-discovery, emphasizing the importance of being present and intentional in life. They reflect on how personal growth reshapes family dynamics, the weight of expectations, and the freedom that comes with embracing wisdom over time. They highlight the vital role of therapy and mental health in navigating generational patterns, building deeper connections, and fostering a sense of fulfillment. Lil Rel also shares their experience with success, vulnerability, and guilt, touching on the complexities of colorism and how healing becomes both a path to survival and a catalyst for authenticity and more. Tune in and join the conversation in the socials below.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Jess Heal with Doctor J, a production of
The Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
another episode and another opportunity to join our healing space. Listen,
don't just pull up to the Healing community. I want
you to subscribe and join this healing community because we
are having conversations that are providing insight and bringing transformation
(00:21):
and people thinking. And what I love about these episodes,
a lot of people are just saying, hey, doctor J.
I got my notebook out and I'm taking notes. Please
take notes, especially for the guests that we have today.
I'm excited to have my good brother, comedian, actor, film producer,
Little Real Man. Listen, Brother, I'm so happy man to
(00:44):
have you on the couse today. Man, Welcome to the
Healing Community. You know, I'm sitting here thinking about my
intro and all of this, man, but I'm like, you
know what, let me just be brother Man. I'm so
happy man to sit down and have this conversation with you.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Man.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Man, I always thought out all of the discussions with
just not how you doing, how you feeling?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
You know some I'm feeling really, really extremely good. It's
crazy that I'm doing this today. And I just so,
I just directed my first feature or whatever, and so
in the mornings I do my editing session with my
editor or whatever. But man, I've been pinching myself. Man, like,
I'm so grateful that like, and I know this might
(01:27):
sound a little corny and I don't even care, but like,
I had a moment this morning. I'm like, man, I'm
from the West Side of Chicago. I had a moment.
I thought about little me and how none of this
seemed realistic to me or even in the West Side
of Chicago, like TV Hollywood. It was just like it
was more of an escape to what was going on
(01:47):
most of the time in my neighborhood and stuff like that.
So like to be doing what like George Lucas has
done and Steven Spielbert, like you know what I mean,
like Bike Lee and Ken Navy, Wimams or Robert Townsend
and all those greats. It's like, oh, I'm actually doing that.
And then like, for some reason today I was able
to enjoy the movie more than I had. I don't
(02:09):
know why I was cracking up to that. And because
I'm usually kind of laser focus on what we need
to cut and do or whatever. But I was like, yo,
this is pretty.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Good man, brother. I loved that for you, and I
love that you get to be present in that moment
and to be present not just in the moment, but
also be present in the work. Yeah, because oftentimes we're
not present as men in our work because somebody's usually
eating from our work. We go and work and then
(02:38):
we take what we get and we take care of
everyone else. But just for you to be able to
rest in that, man, and what I hear is the
little boy's proud man.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I truly like in the last few years I made
a lot of huge changes and the focus was to
be present, Like I feel like God has me in
his position in this next part of my career. I
feel like I missed a lot of stuff with the
first part of success I had because I was, you know,
(03:12):
either nervous or or if I could be honest, this
is real talk, Like I learned this more or less
a year ago. Like I had like the persona was
running everything you know that got me here, Like I
created this persona to get to where I'm at, and
at some point I had to let that go if
I wanted to be present and really experience how blessed
(03:34):
I am. You know what I'm saying that was that
was tough to do. It really owned the fact that
like between hip hop and characters and movie and movies
and stuff like that and just people like I watched
do things what I thought of boss was and all
this other stuff. I really was like, you know, in
this game with my persona running things, and I didn't
(03:59):
want to do that no more.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
What what got you to that point real where you're
just like, I'm tired of the persona speaking, doing and living.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
For me, it was stuff that didn't make sense right.
For instance, like I haven't drinking like two years, you know,
and that was a big deal, but the persona was
the reason why. And this is so crazy. I will
only drink out. I can't. I couldn't drink in a house. Wow, right,
And so to me that was like, okay, why is that?
And it was actually me going to therapy and really
(04:33):
diving into why the persona was created. I realized, like
this whole time, I've been like, you know, overly trying
to prove my dad wrong who my father was amazing
in my life. But it was like one random moment
like when he told me I couldn't do something, and
since I was fourteen, I've been trying to prove so
then like my dad's has dementia now. And I missed
(04:57):
out on him being proud of me for real, or
even him hearing that because I was still trying to Lily,
I'm gonna show you. So I wasn't even paying attention
when he was telling me how proud he was with
me and stuff like that. Now that he's way is now,
we can't even have these conversations because now I understand
his background, like you know, when you get older. Me
and my brother talk about this all the time, getting
into our uncles and the older people and having real conversations,
(05:21):
and he'd be like, oh, that's why Dad was like that,
you know what I'm saying. And it was just it
was funny because he was an artsy person and everybody
else was kind of street niggas, so they called it.
He was a lame to them, you know what I'm saying.
I didn't realize, like even just I had to realize,
like even family members who didn't you know, when I
first started doing comedy and they was like, man, I
(05:42):
don't know about this or whatever. They wasn't hating. At
the time, I thought I took it as hating. But
these are people who love you just stuff, don't want
you to fail, especially if it's something nobody's ever done before.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah yeah, and especially in that generation if if somebody,
if someone is going against the grain, it's like, oh no,
how dare you go against the grain? How dare you
step into this arena? Because we do this, We don't
do that. And as you were talking, I'm sitting here
(06:15):
processing because I share the same thing just my father.
He's he's agent, and I can see that he's agent.
He's still pastoring, and I think he should retire. But
the being present in the moments that they share that
we kind of feel robbed up because.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I'm like, man, why didn't you give me that then?
But see, my dad did, and I robbed myself of
it because you once again, I'll tell you what it was, right.
It was me tried out for the basketball team my
freshman year. And my dad wasn't no athlete. He's a
pretty short guy, you know what I'm saying. So he
was my mom was a sports person, which is crazy,
(06:57):
but it wasn't him. But he was still like, like
he knew we loved sports, like my dad coached our
baseball team. Didn't really know baseball like that because me
and my brothers loved baseball, but because he always wanted
to be involved. And so that was on me man
like when the persona was just running things. And I
remember I used to I do screens in Chicago all
the time for all my projects. So I come home
(07:18):
and show I got my family so supportive, and so
I remember him being excited about Uncle Drew and giving
me love about it. And it wasn't until I replayed
it after my therapy session, like he did say he
was proud of me, and I ain't even that end
because I was still trying to prove him wrong when
he told me I couldn't make the basketball team.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Bro that when I tell you, I share the same
thing my father recently said to me. He can't say
he's proud of me. Now he can text it and
to know his childhood and kind of like you say,
when you started to hear the story as you're aging,
and I often say this is that we don't hear.
(07:59):
We don't really understand our parents until we are adults
and we begin to understand the different dynamics that they
had not only with their parents, but the dynamic in
the parenting. And so my parents were raised in Mississippi,
so they were parent on survival and they weren't parent
(08:19):
on how to thrive and how to succeed and how
to really be all of those things. And so he
said to me one day, Well, he texted me and
he said, because my parents now that I and I
have to say this, I earned my doctorate. You know,
this wasn't honorarys. So now that I've earned my doctorate,
(08:40):
my parents won't call me by my name. They called
me doctor J. And bro it broke me down. He
texted me, he says, doctor J. I always wanted to
do what you were doing. He said, I always wanted
to just speak in different places. But he fell church
of like, you know, really pigeoncage him. And so he says, son,
(09:06):
I'm proud of you. I sent him the interview that
I was doing with Taraji and he said to me,
he says, man, this is dope. My son is interviewing
Taraji and he's the biggest Saraji fan ever.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
And to your point, it's just.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
As you said that I'm processing like did I rob
myself a moment that he texted because I've been waiting
for him to say it, And what if that's his
only way that he can say it?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
This is what And we rob ourselves and stuff all
the time, trying to tell people how to give us
what they're trying to give us right the best they can.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yes, you know, I own the fact that, like you
know that I did miss those moments with him, And
it's all good. I mean it was Sometimes I'm like, dang,
because now I really want to ask him about him.
I want to ask him questions nobody else acts. Yeah, man,
I'm like, dude, you're such just My dad was such
a very talented, naturally talented person in so many ways
(10:07):
in music and art and this stuff. He was just
doing his hobbies. It was stuff he could have sold.
I believe for like millions of dollars that he was
just doing just just for his peace of mind. Wow,
you know what I'm saying, And so like you know,
it's it's but then that's why I feel like I'm
honoring him by like knowing my art and once again
like me being in this in this very beautiful place
(10:29):
of being present, like like I've enjoyed my my like me,
me and me and my fiance was just talking about
this today. She just proud of me because she's like, yo,
you because a lot of people been saying it to me,
which is weird, not making me uncomfortable, Like yo either
they say I'm a glow. Like even some of our
friends came to my short New York on Sunday, It's like, Yo,
you always hilarious, but you like brilliant, but you look
(10:51):
so happy. The energy is just different. You made the
womb feel different. And it's like I am in, I'm
on it that life ain't perfect because it ain't. But
at the same time, I'm just really enjoying myself and
I'm being so present and I like the fact that,
like I did Celebrity Family Feud this weekend and I
(11:12):
brought my real family. George Wallace had an all star taking,
but I brought actually brought my family. And watching how
happy my aunt Jenny was, who watches Family Feud every
single day and she's own family few. Wow, I bet
she was going. She was in her life and she
was great. She was hysterical, she was funny, she was smart,
(11:34):
and you know, Steve walked down. She's like, I forgot
you ain't shake your things, you know what I'm saying.
She experienced that and to be able to create these
experiences fortunate. It's been a beautiful thing. These people who
saw you from a little kid to who you be
careing man. It was funny because people was taking videos
because we were like, they'll see me. I didn't even
know I was holding her hand, but that's what we do,
(11:55):
walking with her, holding hands and stuff like, you know,
It's it's been beautiful to be I'm so present right man,
that I've been able to enjoy every little moment of
like the small stuff that I kind of not necessarily
took for granted at first. But I was at such
grimed mode I didn't you know, sometimes I wish I
(12:17):
would have experienced what The Run Get Out made, because
it ain't a lot of movie, especially black layer movies
that's up for Oscars and all that. Real y'all had
to run the crazy time. But I was kind of
like I was still in grime mode and I was
the PERSONA was still trying to act like I knew
everything I was doing, which some of even when I
got my own show, I had a crazy run at
(12:37):
that time, but I was the PERSONA was running things
and I didn't enjoy it. I didn't even really connect
with the people I was working with as much as
I should have. Like this movie I just directed was
the first time I felt like I connected to the
production for real. Wow, I understood what everybody did. I
talked to everybody every morning. It was it was something
beautiful about having these people who helped make your dream
(12:59):
come true. You have to make majorams come to you
at the same time.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Man, bro, when I'll tell you, I love where you
are because I kind of remember when you kind of
started your journey and when you kind of started, you know,
sharing about therapy, and I you know, I've watched so
many people, and I've watched people just from them being
who they are rather than from looking at them from
what they do.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
And I can tell that there was a shift in
you just by the way you were really.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Speaking about your journey of discovery. And then I saw
even more when you started dating how it also revealed
another not just layer, but another version of you. Because
when and I'm gonna say this, when we are loved properly,
hear what I'm saying when we are loved properly and
(13:53):
love in a healthy way, it will release a version
of you that's always been there, but sometimes it's hidden
under certain things. And as you speak about the persona.
But more importantly, what I love, what I'm hearing from you, man,
is that the joy. That's what I hear, the happiness, Because, Bro,
(14:19):
I don't know many men that have joy's moments. I
don't know many men that truly experience happiness. I know
a lot of men that only have pleasure, but moments,
but not to just be presently, presently present in their
state of being, in their state of doing, or just
(14:42):
in their state of living. And I resonate with that
because that's where I'm at. And I'm hearing the same
thing from you know, my peers. Man, they're like Jay
this podcast because man, I hate podcasts.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Let me just say that is my producer, jer I
hate it.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I hate I love to speak because I come from
pastors and you know, bishops, and I love creating messages
podcasts just kind of like you know. And the one
thing that God revealed to me, he said, this is
just not for you to just talk. It's also for
you to discover more about yourself because this is I.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Don't know this space. I know therapy, I know football, but.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
This space has allowed me to really discover it new aversions.
But there's a piece that I had because I couldn't
have done this podcast three years ago.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I was still heavy. You know what's great about you
doing this too? I think we do need in this
interest because I'm not I had a podcast. I can't
wait till with them they pay me a front because
A it's a you know, and also I didn't want
to be grouped up with these cats that's talking crave,
hazy bro. That's what I'm feel like. I was like,
(16:00):
But then this is what I realized, and this is
why I love what you're doing, is that they do
need more of us to speak too. You know what
I mean because you know, you know, I'm not. I'm
not running around like I'm some expert or anything like that.
One thing I am an expert that is being myself.
Come on, you know what I'm saying. I'm very good
at being myself and I'm excited about the journey I'm on.
(16:23):
I think you know, we always praise and how people
talk crazy and doing bad and things like that, and
it's like, yo, you know, you can still be happy
and successful doing the right thing. Exactly. It's okay, exactly,
like you can love black women. Yeah, and yell it,
it's okay, it's okay. Do you respect like nobody to
catch that message?
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Man, what you put down it's okay.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah. I look at I look at at the crazy
people's lags, like those are the weirdos to me. Yeah,
ye see what I'm saying. So I don't like when
you're just comfortable in your own skin. And I mean
that's one of the reasons why I respect you so much.
Like you you one of those cats that you know,
you Jason Wilson, your brother Jason Wilson. It's just it's
(17:09):
and I feel I feel bad for my dad now
cause theyen hat is like they had to be me
and my brother because my brother, he's in the same journey.
I'm on to my little brother. I'm so proud of him.
And we every day we talk. We big basketball fans
and he is Chicago and Lasa. We on the We
literally be on the phone the whole game. You would
thought we had a podcast with it, but but we're
(17:31):
always so you know, We've been having these great moments
of like really trying to understand who are parents and
our grandparents and why like why my uncle was this
way and my dad was this it was and then
it what's crazy? My dad going through dementia? He starts
he talks about things from his past as if happening now.
So that's why we're learning stuff like yo, you're ready
(17:53):
just saying where was that? Like you know what I mean, Like,
that's it's really fascinating. But but that's how much I
love life and people like I'm even fascinated watching my
dad go through this process, which is it's tough to
watch and it's interesting at the same time because you
do wonder like at this point in somebody's life when
they're going through dementia, all like where are you? What's
(18:15):
the world to you? Now? Man? That's that's that's a
good question, man, you know what I mean, Like I
think about it every day for him, like what's what
do you when you wake up? Where do you think
you are? Like what year you think? Like it's just
I think that a lot of me. It's really because
he because he just talks about things as if like
one day he was talking to me about me. Wow,
(18:37):
he was he was talking about how I was gonna
kick my ass. Who's gonna go kick you?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Like, but it's all right, really believe in that brother
really beat me. But the boy with the glasses right,
so as you like, uh, is he at home or
is he at he's with my brother.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
So we had him, you know, which I've planned paying
out man paying a lot at this place he was at. Now,
the first place he was there was a blessing because
it was a place built for these rich white people,
built this place for their mom, and when she passed,
he just kept it open. It was near my brother's
house and he was staying there, so the care was
like really personable and perfect. And then they end up
(19:17):
closing and we ended up put them in another place
that wasn't as great and we had to be more
hands on so that my brother decided to bring him home.
But it's actually been a blessing for Matt. Matt is
you know. I was talking to his wife about it,
like she's so he's happier taking care of my dad
because he's the baby. And it's something about him having
this much responsibility for people that that was very much
(19:42):
responsible for him and every you know, he's been through
a lot, so it's a full circle moment. Man. It's
a beautiful thing to watch. He was just like when
I call, you know, hit him up and hit him interact.
He's just he's loving that responsibility. Man.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
And here is a unique thing about that is that's
also I am sure that I can probably rest. That's
probably healing for him.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
He literally said that it's very healing to him once again,
you know. And Matt, I'm so proud of him because
just to watch his progression. And we're close, you know,
we our middle brother passed away from cancer in twenty thirteen. Sorry,
and we're all really tight. We're still tight, you know.
I remember my Mama brought Matt home, you know what
I mean. And so like I've always felt responsible for him.
(20:32):
But what I do love what was happening now is
that we have these very vulnerable conversations now, like all
the time, you know, even you know, because I call
him when he liked to laugh everything instead of having
an emotional conversation, start laughing. I'm like, bro, you just
be laughing. You don't want to get there. But then
once he started crying, it wouldn't stop. Brother. Okay, wait
(20:53):
a minute, ain't gonna go in that. Oh no, But
I appreciate that. You know, he was just telling me
how much he appreciated me as a big brother and
showing up for him no matter what. But I'm like, dude,
I remember when Mama brought you home. I don't even
know where you came. That's why I even really understand
when babies came for I just do a baby came home?
Did your brother? Like? Okay, uh, but I do. I
(21:17):
remember asking my mamas, you know, Recipe's mama too, But like, like,
did this happen? Wasn't the dream because I remember grabbing
his hand and telling them like, yo, I got you.
And that's just been what it is since since then.
And so like to see him become this dude. He
has a white kids. He's the suburbs of Chicago. You know.
(21:38):
I went over to his house last summer and just
spent some time that I was sitting there all yea,
you know, just watching like because he's been through it
once again. He went through a lot. He got like
locked up before. And I remember me and Marcus, my
brother passed away. You know, we was kind of beefing
at the time, because you know, you close to age
with somebody, I kind of bump heads, especially growing up,
and at that point, you know, I feel like he
(21:59):
was taking advantage of my parents. I didn't want to
talk because he wouldn't move out. Man, you take it
advantage of this, I ain't gonna talk to you. And
by doing that, we kind of went on our own
grind and Matt got locked up, and we blamed ourselves,
like dang, we neglected him because we was beefing and
doing our own thing, and so as soon as he
got out, we was on him. You know what I'm saying.
(22:20):
I was taking him to all my shows, and I
got him a job, and Marcus would let him out
of sight and just to see him become who he
has become. Man, extremely responsible. That's beautiful, most beautiful. We
came from an era when you think about people who
grew up in the nineties and how many people I know,
I lost a lot of friends. Yeah, I saw so
(22:42):
many young people get killed. And I think that's a
week of time we don't talk about unless you like
start to see like they're making these shows now that's
kind of like making it throwback but man, it was crazy.
It was a crazy It was something I got, like
were you in Chicago and in Chicago? Yeah, the West
Side Chicago. So like, you know, I talked about one
of my specials. My first therapy says shit and oh no,
(23:03):
it's a new special coming out. But it was like, well,
my therapist like, yo, you know that was crazy, right,
Like those are children that would be murdered, like you
know it could, but I normalize them in a way
because that's I was used to seeing it. And so
to get through that, I've own and been happy to
just be not not just be alive, but for real,
(23:24):
for real, be living because it's a lot of people
who didn't see past twenty two.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, and then for us to be black men in
forties that are thriving, that are healthy, and then two
we've also made changes to enhance our quality of living,
which you don't see because brothers. I hear a lot
of brothers that look at forty as if man is over,
(23:49):
and I'm like, forty, I believe forty is your prime.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
You you you you have. Author C Brooks talks about
this in this book From Strength to Strength. You have
Christies intelligence. This is what he called it. What he
called it is stored wisdom.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
You live long enough to you have acquired enough wisdom
on how to not just make decisions, but to understand
the decision that needs to be made.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Let me tell you something, like you know, that's it's
like I mean, I look at even just my journey
with just the next level of how I see God
and see my life and see you know, everything that's
coming to me, like you know, being older and being wiser.
I love the fact that I don't humanize God anymore
(24:37):
like people love to make God human like they always
find a way to like make God think like we
think and do like we do it. None of that,
none of it exists, right, And so you know, I
look at like you know, which is why I've enjoyed
the journey more than ever, because I'm not trying to
force or predict how I'm going to be blessed. I
do know God has already opened those doors to me.
(25:00):
Wisdom is it's about my decision making. Ye come on,
which one of these doers I go through? Come on
right on the go right right? So I love the
fact that I have moments when I'm like, oh God,
I don't want to make this good decision because it's
going to require way too much work.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, yeah, listen that that's what you know.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
You get a stride, you know what I mean? You
just you know, he's like, but I know I get it,
and it's not as hard as I think it is.
It's just because you know, sometimes we overthink the work. Bro.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Let me ask you this when you know, coming from
Chicago and I'm sure that was secondary trauma, uh, trauma
that you experience just directly when you started really experiencing success.
How did that impact you mentally when things really started happening.
(25:49):
Did you feel like, is this supposed to happen to me?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yep? I I mean you you you go through your
guilt trip. You feel guilty about it a little bit,
especially in stand up too, Like a lot of these
cats you come up with over the years, and you
may be the one that made a decision like I
ain't gonna just stay at the crib. It's gotta be
(26:14):
born than just doing stand up in Chicago. I want
to be a movie star, which is while like I
applied my business partner and my form managing knowledge back
Ona who helped me do the festival one of the
things I love about him is man he never like
downplayed any of the crazy things I would pitch you.
So when he was managing me early in the early years,
I'm gonna be a movie star and I'm an write
(26:36):
and I'm a direct and I'm aroduce and I'm gonna
do this, I'm host talk to you, host a game.
I was just throwing out stuff, right, I'm gonna be
at I was just saying out landing stuff. And he
never said, well, I don't know. It was always like yeah, yeah,
all right, and so like when you have at least
one person like Man, yes, the sky is Man is
(26:59):
the limit, you know, and so like. But early on, Man,
I felt guilty about a lot of stuff. I think,
once again, that's why the persona was running things. The
persona was able to kind of because I didn't know
what to do with any of that. All I did
was act like I knew what I was doing when
I didn't know what I was doing, like when I'm
showing Fox. You know. One of the biggest things I
learned was that, I mean I would walk around walk
(27:21):
in the writer's room because I was I did everything
and I'd be giving all these notes and go to
my office like, oh, I know what I'm doing, but
I wanted the front instead of me just letting everybody know, like, man,
this is my first time around. Is let's all collaborate.
I was trying to be the big boss because of
the Dane Dash videos and they're like, you know, you
see people do all this, like yeah, this is what
the boss is. And really, you know, my vulnerability would
(27:44):
have made me a better person at charge. And I
learned a lot from that. And I had to own that,
you know what I'm saying. I had to own just
even a lot of stuff. Even when I became number
one on the call sheet and the movies and all
this other stuff, it was always trusted out. And then
you know, I come from a military family, Like, yeah,
I got always but blackness sometimes like sometime other white
people weren't even doing nothing to me, but I created something, wow,
(28:08):
to just be angry about and to go against. Yeah,
let me talk to the executives. You know, it's just stupid. Yeah.
And so like once again, now that I'm present and
I've let the persona lead, I've been able to replay
all these moments y'all. Damn that was crazy, you know
what I mean. And so some people have been able
to like go and apologize to like, yo, I'm sorry
(28:28):
for if I came off with a certain way that wasn't
I'm sorry, y'ah. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean,
and so like to own And I mean, that's what
I love about God is that you know, I'm enjoying
this next phase of my life and just wisdom and
maturity and being present while I've been enjoying like the
(28:50):
smaller moments.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Man, that that those smaller moments are a series of
alto big moment. That's how I like to see it,
because there are these little moments where you get to
be present.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Like so I've been out here.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
In La working on this TV thing that have me
and they were for the past two days, and and
that God goes, doctor J. How you feel, you know,
do you need to go with da da da? I said, no, Man,
I said, I'm just in this moment. How do you
feel about everything? I said, Bro, I'm good. I'm just
in this moment. And I think because we live in
(29:30):
such an anxious world and ancious society that to see
people who are present, it's like you know, and and
of course even getting here today, like they would have
me come back to the studio and do some more stuff,
and you know, in their world, it's like you get
to come back.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
The call back is like this is a good sign,
doctor J. And he's like, how do you feel? I said, man,
I'm just in this moment, man, And.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
He was like, you always is smool. I said, Man,
I gotta be present because, like you said earlier, you know,
when the numbers start going up an age and you
realize you don't have a lot of summers left, you
become conscious of like, let me stay right here with
my feetup player, let me get out tomorrow and let
(30:11):
me stay in today. I want to pivot. You're I
met your fiance, man, like I love her, Man, She's amazing.
She she got that fire man. She got to have
a conversation and kind of hear her background and just
kind of ministry and stuff that she come from.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Man.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And I know relationships, uh brings healing, but what was
the healing that she brought for you?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Man? You know some is this might be kind of deep,
I guess, but like I like the fact because when
we met, I feel like I showed up with all
my bs right like you finished, I want you to
know the worst of me. Yeah, because we always try
to give everybody the best. I think I'm doing. But
lets you see, and that's what came up first. And
(31:03):
she never she didn't leave my side, but she wasn't
judging me. And I remember, like I had a moment
where like I was shooting a movie and me and
it's the co star. He was bumping heads, you know
what I'm saying. He was he was kind of white
boying it up.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Man.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
I couldn't take it, no mo, So I checked right,
I was like the West side of Copan came out
like you know what I mean. I remember it just
was quiet off. Everybody had their mask going. He on
what faces they was making. But I was like, fam
let me say this, you know, because he was doing
too much, you know what I'm saying. And I needed
a break. I told him, look I had there, gave
me like a week in off. And so my friend
(31:39):
Drawing Carmichael, the town was hosting SNL and I know,
I'm gonna go to New York and I'm about to
support your rye. So Danella came with me to New York.
That was actually one of our first trips to actually
and you know that, the production called me while I'm
in New York like, oh, we need you to come
right back. I'm like, no, I told y'all, y'all this dude,
and I need I can't. I'm not coming back. And
(32:02):
then it was kind of like a thread we could
consue you you know, you know the producer it was.
It was kind of crazy, and I stood my ground
on that, you know what I'm saying. And I remember
hanging up and I was like, Okay, I just roll
my career. They're not gonna I'm not gonna do no
more movies or nothing because I had just totally executives. Nah,
my mental health is way more important. And I just
(32:25):
I got I think I got emotional. I started like
crying and what I loved about and it was something
I never experienced before. She didn't. I didn't feel less
than the man because I showed emotion in front of her.
And at that moment, I was like, this is how
she see it, and that's what it is, man, right,
you know what I'm saying. I ain't got to deal
with it no more, you know what I'm saying. But
(32:47):
she was very comforting. She didn't even say anything it
really she was just present with me and didn't treat
me differently or look on me like I was saw
And that was a big moment for me with her,
you know what I'm saying. And then like since then,
we been on this journey for both of us. That's
what's been crazy is that, you know, she was like,
(33:07):
you know, you miss a rail. You stretched me, and
she meane like spiritually, you know, could we have we
get us some deconversations everything, and we both have grown
so much because we've been very vulnerable and it was
hard to get that out of her because she's you know,
she met her before. She's a firecracker. She's very outspoken
this and that. But some of that was persona driven too.
(33:29):
So when both of us recognized that the personas was
in front, and now we got to be extremely real
with each other. It's taking our relationship to another level
of just being like the vulnerability part of it. And
then now we're blending families and those real conversations about
you know, how we interact with our kids now because
now it's getting real real. But I love the fact
(33:53):
that we're taking it there, like even when we was
praying it's more and I don't know that is dope. Man. Yeah,
I feel like I'm real lucky to have her. Man.
I love how we have our discussions with God together,
even if it's taller stuff like God, you she said,
she started it. You know, we literally that's.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
How we young weep the man, and I think that
brings a unique balance to understanding your divinity and your humanity.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Is God is in the middle. But right now, nigga,
you get on my nerves, you know, real and she
shows up, like I'm telling you, man, nigga ship and
she's there. He showed up, He showed I love it.
He showed up, yea, And it was kind of crass
(34:46):
of God man happening now. And I just meant that
I kind of want to impress all. I keep showing
all this crazy. But as I was going through this
transition to getting better, bro, that was it was a fighting,
you know what I'm saying, man. And so, Man, I
don't know, I think some stuff, I mean maybe at
the neck spatial or y'all, that I'll dive into the
(35:08):
people probably like what yeah, because it you know, God
is good man, and Danella just so though I really am.
I'm like so lucky and just even I mean, our
conversations even got deeper. You know, she's a light skinned
black woman, and we get deep into those right because
for a long time I would even date a light
skin woman because I didn't want everybody to assume. Once
(35:32):
I got some bread, that's what I went and did. Y'all, man,
that's real. That's a real thing. And feel like for me,
I found once I dropped that and just let love
be what it is. But still have my issues with
that and on that too. And then I had to
hear her perspective on how she grew up with people
assuming what they assume about her and that's even crazy.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, yeah, you know, and I just shared my story
that has been do I watched that the colorism thing?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Man? Is that some real thing? Man? Did you experience
any of that? You know? Some for some weird reason?
And I love my mama for this. I was this
over confident black nerdy boy. Yeah I don't even know,
Like when I look at how greasy I was, I'd
be looking at our pictures of myself. How did I
get the finest girl in class? Like? But I was
so my mother had me so confident in myself. I
(36:26):
didn't really experience that for real till my son was
going through it when it broke my heart when he
came home from school one day about what these kids
were saying and I had to have this really upliftic.
That was the first I have a bald about that.
I didn't cry in front of him. Maybe I wish
I would have, but it was after getting his confidence up.
I had to go take a drive and I was like, man,
(36:46):
I ain't think he would go through that because I
ain't go through it, and I thought it was worse
in the eighties and nineties. Yeah, but you know when
you get you know, your kids go to these schools
you think are better, and you know, white kids or
black it's just people just talk him crazy. Man. I
couldn't believe what they were saying to him and he
had to hear that. Yeah, because it, man, it impacts you,
(37:08):
man uh greatly in a way. There you can't even
see yourself for who you really are because you're now
seeing yourself through the lens of their words. That was
tough because that was family to happen to you.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
That's that's what at that like that, and I think
I think the one thing that always bothered me about
Bessie and the family is it was it was almost
like it was perpetuated because no one wanted to tell
her because it's like, well, that's just how Bessie is,
(37:42):
so no one never wanted to correct her.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And even to this day, you know, when that my
dad called me just like, you know, all these people
calling me about Bessie man and this and that, and
my mother said, you know, my dad name is Jimmy.
My mother said, with.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Jimmy, ain't nobody never stand up for that boy and
tell Bessie by herself well and his things. You know, well, Mary,
that's just how these old folks were. And so as
as as as as if you just had to accept it.
And when I released that, for me, that was me
releasing a persona because like yourself, uh, I only it's
(38:21):
like I was afraid to just date period because I
always felt like at some point, like even if a
woman said I love your beautiful skin, I'm like, at
some point she's gonna get mad and it's going to
be you know, your black ass, because that's what I
was accustomed, you know what I mean. And I experienced
that with a few and unfortunately, uh some black girls
(38:45):
that you know I dated in high school. You know
that that was like it was always like your black
ass because I played ball, so you know, we outside
all day, you know, with football. So that's what I
knew is that you know, oh he girl his old
black ass, or yeah, he black his hair and you
know it's dark. And then too, it was also wrestling
with the fact that I'm the darkest one in my
(39:06):
family and having to really unpack that.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
But releasing that it brought not only healing to the man,
but healing to the little boy. That's what I love
about you talking about that. I told Danella the other
day I want her to publicly like because we the
girls and the kids through like a Mother's Day brunch
at the house and they made food or whatever, and
we was having a real discussion about that. She told
(39:31):
the story I never heard a table before, and I'm like, honestly,
I would like for you, you know. She's like, well,
I want to tell it because of other like people,
the way they they've painted a narrative. But I'm like, no,
what you just said, Well, give people empathy because it's
very honest and it was very real, and nobody sees
it from that perspective because it's almost like what you're saying, right,
(39:52):
can you imagine because it happens both ways of colorism
and our black families. Right, it's like you either catch
it because you're the darkest one or you the light
lightest one. Yep, And so like it's just it's you know,
it's it's a discussion. I think we should stop running
away from We're going to like make right by this.
(40:12):
I agree, man, you know what I'm saying. And I think.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Even just with you sharing about not wanting to date
a light skinned woman and then just her having her experience,
I think that that becomes a colorful conversation that provides
so much perspective to people because that conversation, man, like
my DM was just on fire from men and women
(40:38):
who were saying this was my experience. I experienced this
from my mom, I experienced this from my cousins, and
and this is what really, man, this podcast is about,
is bringing healing.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Man.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I want to want to end with this last question
that I asked all guests, and it's a question that
I feel like it is the foundation of.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
What this podcast represent is the real that you are today?
What does healing means to you? Mm hmm, yeah, you
know what's this is. I mean this might be kind
of deep, but what healing means to me, especially right now,
(41:22):
is is I don't want to see it like this.
I'm trying to see it the right way. Man, Say,
how do you feel it? Man? Me? Me? Me putting
an effort in to just heal all these wounds has
kept me alive. Wow, I don't. I don't think if
(41:50):
I ever like, I don't, I don't know if I'll
be alive bro, even in success and all that, like
for real, Like, I don't think so, because it's easy
to get in these dark places even when things are
(42:12):
going well, especially if you haven't dealt with these wounds.
So I always gonna thank my assistant, my old assistant, April,
when I had this panic attack one day on my
stairs and I never had one before, and she kept
telling me to go to therapy. Ya you know, because
(42:37):
I kept doing little stuff to like sabotage myself. Even
people don't know publicly what was happening. It was sabotaging happened,
and I didn't know why. You know what I'm saying,
so if I didn't start searching for true healing and
we're talking about therapeutic, we're talking about spiritually. And then
as I went through the healing process, as the glow
(42:59):
started happening, man, that's when God sent in up at
my life. Wow. So I've been able to be loved
properly and love properly y'all because of the healing, and
I feel more alive than effort. And we talking about
it every way you could think of, like even just
going on my health journey, like the way you know
when I tell people, you know, I work out every
(43:21):
single day and all that stuff, but like it was honestly,
it was stuff attached to me that had nothing to
do with like the physical weight. But it was that
like when I look I could look at get Out
in certain movies and I could see that I was
depressed even on performing and I'm killing it. I'm looking like,
(43:42):
I know how sad I was. You know what I'm saying.
What I'm saying, yes, And it's like as soon as
I started letting all these things go. If I remember
the day my little six pack came in, I'm like,
what it is coming from I've been like cause I
was on my workour and it was one thing I
was like, I couldn't get rid of this billy. And honestly,
it was when I stopped drinking and I went on
this fast, you know, when I joined Cali Worship. Shout
(44:08):
out to Warren Campbell, Erica Campbell. I went on this
fast man, And at the end of the fast that day,
I fell on my knees in my bedroom and just
like shard everything off of me, Like God has played
this highlight reel of Yeah, you made mistakes, but I'm
still proud of you. So it's like God showed me
(44:29):
all my mistakes and then literally it like I remember,
it was like mistake, mistake and mistake, mistake, mistaken. Then
this curve went up. Well I'm proud of you though,
because this is what you've done. Wow. And so yeah,
that's where I'm at. Like, so for me, healiness is surviving,
bro yah.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Was just let that sit for a moment because I
feel the same way. Man, had I not found this face,
I don't think i'd be I knew I know I
would because statistic shows when you have survived several suicide attempts,
(45:11):
the likelihood of you attempting again is very high. So
I know for myself, Man.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Had I not really done the work and had that
God encounter moment, I wouldn't because, like you said, Man,
it's almost like the dark spaces are everywhere and you
have to search for light, and searching for light can
(45:39):
be exhausting because darkness it just seems to be you know, omnipresence.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
And so Man, brother, I just want to say, Man,
thank you bro for your vulnerability today, man, and thank
you for sharing. I know this episode is going to
help a lot of brothers and a lot of men.
Just also encouraged men to keep to keep pursuing another
version of themselves and to keep all, as I like
(46:09):
to say, remain curious.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Is there more light life going life? Man? Light life
is going life, and especially for us brothers, is like
not only that, but let's all continue to communicate with
each other. You know that is so important for us
to talk to each other, you know what I'm saying.
And get rid of these personas. Man, if you gotta
(46:34):
let your homie know, like Bro, I don't need to
see the persona. Yeah, Like what's up? Who are you.
Who are you? Man?
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Listen healing and Survival and to my brothers and to
my sisters. Maybe you're connected to somebody who needs to
share that persona And I want to challenge you the
acce person who are you? As you just heard my brother,
our friend Ral said, who are you? The more we
(47:07):
allow people to see who we are, I think, the
better experience we have from each other because now we
don't have to wear these masks.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
I know some of you at watching, and I want
to encourage you. Don't just come to the healing community,
be a part of it. Subscribe to the YouTube channel.
It's growing fast, and this healing community, it's all about
providing insight and also providing tools through these transformation and
transformative conversation that we're having with people from all walks
(47:40):
of life.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Today.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
You didn't hear a comedian today. You heard from a
man who took the journey to discover more of himself.
And I just want to encourage you to continue your
journey wherever you are, whether that's therapy, whether that's coaching,
whether that's touching grass, hug and trees, whatever modality you
choose to use, do something to put you on the
(48:02):
path or do something to allow you to have a
better quality of life. And until next time, remember healing
is a journey and wholeness is the destination.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Just here with Doctor J, a production of the Black
Effect podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. And you
can follow me at King J. Barnett on Instagram and
x and follow us on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Just Heal Doctor J.
Welcome to Jess Heal with Doctor J, a production of
The Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
another episode and another opportunity to join our healing space. Listen,
don't just pull up to the Healing community. I want
you to subscribe and join this healing community because we
are having conversations that are providing insight and bringing transformation
(00:21):
and people thinking. And what I love about these episodes,
a lot of people are just saying, hey, doctor J.
I got my notebook out and I'm taking notes. Please
take notes, especially for the guests that we have today.
I'm excited to have my good brother, comedian, actor, film producer,
Little Real Man. Listen, Brother, I'm so happy man to
(00:44):
have you on the couse today. Man, Welcome to the
Healing Community. You know, I'm sitting here thinking about my
intro and all of this, man, but I'm like, you
know what, let me just be brother Man. I'm so
happy man to sit down and have this conversation with you.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Man.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Man, I always thought out all of the discussions with
just not how you doing, how you feeling?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
You know some I'm feeling really, really extremely good. It's
crazy that I'm doing this today. And I just so,
I just directed my first feature or whatever, and so
in the mornings I do my editing session with my
editor or whatever. But man, I've been pinching myself. Man, like,
I'm so grateful that like, and I know this might
(01:27):
sound a little corny and I don't even care, but like,
I had a moment this morning. I'm like, man, I'm
from the West Side of Chicago. I had a moment.
I thought about little me and how none of this
seemed realistic to me or even in the West Side
of Chicago, like TV Hollywood. It was just like it
was more of an escape to what was going on
(01:47):
most of the time in my neighborhood and stuff like that.
So like to be doing what like George Lucas has
done and Steven Spielbert, like you know what I mean,
like Bike Lee and Ken Navy, Wimams or Robert Townsend
and all those greats. It's like, oh, I'm actually doing that.
And then like, for some reason today I was able
to enjoy the movie more than I had. I don't
(02:09):
know why I was cracking up to that. And because
I'm usually kind of laser focus on what we need
to cut and do or whatever. But I was like, yo,
this is pretty.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Good man, brother. I loved that for you, and I
love that you get to be present in that moment
and to be present not just in the moment, but
also be present in the work. Yeah, because oftentimes we're
not present as men in our work because somebody's usually
eating from our work. We go and work and then
(02:38):
we take what we get and we take care of
everyone else. But just for you to be able to
rest in that, man, and what I hear is the
little boy's proud man.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I truly like in the last few years I made
a lot of huge changes and the focus was to
be present, Like I feel like God has me in
his position in this next part of my career. I
feel like I missed a lot of stuff with the
first part of success I had because I was, you know,
(03:12):
either nervous or or if I could be honest, this
is real talk, Like I learned this more or less
a year ago. Like I had like the persona was
running everything you know that got me here, Like I
created this persona to get to where I'm at, and
at some point I had to let that go if
I wanted to be present and really experience how blessed
(03:34):
I am. You know what I'm saying that was that
was tough to do. It really owned the fact that
like between hip hop and characters and movie and movies
and stuff like that and just people like I watched
do things what I thought of boss was and all
this other stuff. I really was like, you know, in
this game with my persona running things, and I didn't
(03:59):
want to do that no more.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
What what got you to that point real where you're
just like, I'm tired of the persona speaking, doing and living.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
For me, it was stuff that didn't make sense right.
For instance, like I haven't drinking like two years, you know,
and that was a big deal, but the persona was
the reason why. And this is so crazy. I will
only drink out. I can't. I couldn't drink in a house. Wow, right,
And so to me that was like, okay, why is that?
And it was actually me going to therapy and really
(04:33):
diving into why the persona was created. I realized, like
this whole time, I've been like, you know, overly trying
to prove my dad wrong who my father was amazing
in my life. But it was like one random moment
like when he told me I couldn't do something, and
since I was fourteen, I've been trying to prove so
then like my dad's has dementia now. And I missed
(04:57):
out on him being proud of me for real, or
even him hearing that because I was still trying to Lily,
I'm gonna show you. So I wasn't even paying attention
when he was telling me how proud he was with
me and stuff like that. Now that he's way is now,
we can't even have these conversations because now I understand
his background, like you know, when you get older. Me
and my brother talk about this all the time, getting
into our uncles and the older people and having real conversations,
(05:21):
and he'd be like, oh, that's why Dad was like that,
you know what I'm saying. And it was just it
was funny because he was an artsy person and everybody
else was kind of street niggas, so they called it.
He was a lame to them, you know what I'm saying.
I didn't realize, like even just I had to realize,
like even family members who didn't you know, when I
first started doing comedy and they was like, man, I
(05:42):
don't know about this or whatever. They wasn't hating. At
the time, I thought I took it as hating. But
these are people who love you just stuff, don't want
you to fail, especially if it's something nobody's ever done before.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah yeah, and especially in that generation if if somebody,
if someone is going against the grain, it's like, oh no,
how dare you go against the grain? How dare you
step into this arena? Because we do this, We don't
do that. And as you were talking, I'm sitting here
(06:15):
processing because I share the same thing just my father.
He's he's agent, and I can see that he's agent.
He's still pastoring, and I think he should retire. But
the being present in the moments that they share that
we kind of feel robbed up because.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I'm like, man, why didn't you give me that then?
But see, my dad did, and I robbed myself of
it because you once again, I'll tell you what it was, right.
It was me tried out for the basketball team my
freshman year. And my dad wasn't no athlete. He's a
pretty short guy, you know what I'm saying. So he
was my mom was a sports person, which is crazy,
(06:57):
but it wasn't him. But he was still like, like
he knew we loved sports, like my dad coached our
baseball team. Didn't really know baseball like that because me
and my brothers loved baseball, but because he always wanted
to be involved. And so that was on me man
like when the persona was just running things. And I
remember I used to I do screens in Chicago all
the time for all my projects. So I come home
(07:18):
and show I got my family so supportive, and so
I remember him being excited about Uncle Drew and giving
me love about it. And it wasn't until I replayed
it after my therapy session, like he did say he
was proud of me, and I ain't even that end
because I was still trying to prove him wrong when
he told me I couldn't make the basketball team.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Bro that when I tell you, I share the same
thing my father recently said to me. He can't say
he's proud of me. Now he can text it and
to know his childhood and kind of like you say,
when you started to hear the story as you're aging,
and I often say this is that we don't hear.
(07:59):
We don't really understand our parents until we are adults
and we begin to understand the different dynamics that they
had not only with their parents, but the dynamic in
the parenting. And so my parents were raised in Mississippi,
so they were parent on survival and they weren't parent
(08:19):
on how to thrive and how to succeed and how
to really be all of those things. And so he
said to me one day, Well, he texted me and
he said, because my parents now that I and I
have to say this, I earned my doctorate. You know,
this wasn't honorarys. So now that I've earned my doctorate,
(08:40):
my parents won't call me by my name. They called
me doctor J. And bro it broke me down. He
texted me, he says, doctor J. I always wanted to
do what you were doing. He said, I always wanted
to just speak in different places. But he fell church
of like, you know, really pigeoncage him. And so he says, son,
(09:06):
I'm proud of you. I sent him the interview that
I was doing with Taraji and he said to me,
he says, man, this is dope. My son is interviewing
Taraji and he's the biggest Saraji fan ever.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
And to your point, it's just.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
As you said that I'm processing like did I rob
myself a moment that he texted because I've been waiting
for him to say it, And what if that's his
only way that he can say it?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
This is what And we rob ourselves and stuff all
the time, trying to tell people how to give us
what they're trying to give us right the best they can.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yes, you know, I own the fact that, like you
know that I did miss those moments with him, And
it's all good. I mean it was Sometimes I'm like, dang,
because now I really want to ask him about him.
I want to ask him questions nobody else acts. Yeah, man,
I'm like, dude, you're such just My dad was such
a very talented, naturally talented person in so many ways
(10:07):
in music and art and this stuff. He was just
doing his hobbies. It was stuff he could have sold.
I believe for like millions of dollars that he was
just doing just just for his peace of mind. Wow,
you know what I'm saying, And so like you know,
it's it's but then that's why I feel like I'm
honoring him by like knowing my art and once again
like me being in this in this very beautiful place
(10:29):
of being present, like like I've enjoyed my my like me,
me and me and my fiance was just talking about
this today. She just proud of me because she's like, yo,
you because a lot of people been saying it to me,
which is weird, not making me uncomfortable, Like yo either
they say I'm a glow. Like even some of our
friends came to my short New York on Sunday, It's like, Yo,
you always hilarious, but you like brilliant, but you look
(10:51):
so happy. The energy is just different. You made the
womb feel different. And it's like I am in, I'm
on it that life ain't perfect because it ain't. But
at the same time, I'm just really enjoying myself and
I'm being so present and I like the fact that,
like I did Celebrity Family Feud this weekend and I
(11:12):
brought my real family. George Wallace had an all star taking,
but I brought actually brought my family. And watching how
happy my aunt Jenny was, who watches Family Feud every
single day and she's own family few. Wow, I bet
she was going. She was in her life and she
was great. She was hysterical, she was funny, she was smart,
(11:34):
and you know, Steve walked down. She's like, I forgot
you ain't shake your things, you know what I'm saying.
She experienced that and to be able to create these
experiences fortunate. It's been a beautiful thing. These people who
saw you from a little kid to who you be
careing man. It was funny because people was taking videos
because we were like, they'll see me. I didn't even
know I was holding her hand, but that's what we do,
(11:55):
walking with her, holding hands and stuff like, you know,
It's it's been beautiful to be I'm so present right man,
that I've been able to enjoy every little moment of
like the small stuff that I kind of not necessarily
took for granted at first. But I was at such
grimed mode I didn't you know, sometimes I wish I
(12:17):
would have experienced what The Run Get Out made, because
it ain't a lot of movie, especially black layer movies
that's up for Oscars and all that. Real y'all had
to run the crazy time. But I was kind of
like I was still in grime mode and I was
the PERSONA was still trying to act like I knew
everything I was doing, which some of even when I
got my own show, I had a crazy run at
(12:37):
that time, but I was the PERSONA was running things
and I didn't enjoy it. I didn't even really connect
with the people I was working with as much as
I should have. Like this movie I just directed was
the first time I felt like I connected to the
production for real. Wow, I understood what everybody did. I
talked to everybody every morning. It was it was something
beautiful about having these people who helped make your dream
(12:59):
come true. You have to make majorams come to you
at the same time.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Man, bro, when I'll tell you, I love where you
are because I kind of remember when you kind of
started your journey and when you kind of started, you know,
sharing about therapy, and I you know, I've watched so
many people, and I've watched people just from them being
who they are rather than from looking at them from
what they do.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
And I can tell that there was a shift in
you just by the way you were really.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Speaking about your journey of discovery. And then I saw
even more when you started dating how it also revealed
another not just layer, but another version of you. Because
when and I'm gonna say this, when we are loved properly,
hear what I'm saying when we are loved properly and
(13:53):
love in a healthy way, it will release a version
of you that's always been there, but sometimes it's hidden
under certain things. And as you speak about the persona.
But more importantly, what I love, what I'm hearing from you, man,
is that the joy. That's what I hear, the happiness, Because, Bro,
(14:19):
I don't know many men that have joy's moments. I
don't know many men that truly experience happiness. I know
a lot of men that only have pleasure, but moments,
but not to just be presently, presently present in their
state of being, in their state of doing, or just
(14:42):
in their state of living. And I resonate with that
because that's where I'm at. And I'm hearing the same
thing from you know, my peers. Man, they're like Jay
this podcast because man, I hate podcasts.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Let me just say that is my producer, jer I
hate it.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I hate I love to speak because I come from
pastors and you know, bishops, and I love creating messages
podcasts just kind of like you know. And the one
thing that God revealed to me, he said, this is
just not for you to just talk. It's also for
you to discover more about yourself because this is I.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Don't know this space. I know therapy, I know football, but.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
This space has allowed me to really discover it new aversions.
But there's a piece that I had because I couldn't
have done this podcast three years ago.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I was still heavy. You know what's great about you
doing this too? I think we do need in this
interest because I'm not I had a podcast. I can't
wait till with them they pay me a front because
A it's a you know, and also I didn't want
to be grouped up with these cats that's talking crave,
hazy bro. That's what I'm feel like. I was like,
(16:00):
But then this is what I realized, and this is
why I love what you're doing, is that they do
need more of us to speak too. You know what
I mean because you know, you know, I'm not. I'm
not running around like I'm some expert or anything like that.
One thing I am an expert that is being myself.
Come on, you know what I'm saying. I'm very good
at being myself and I'm excited about the journey I'm on.
(16:23):
I think you know, we always praise and how people
talk crazy and doing bad and things like that, and
it's like, yo, you know, you can still be happy
and successful doing the right thing. Exactly. It's okay, exactly,
like you can love black women. Yeah, and yell it,
it's okay, it's okay. Do you respect like nobody to
catch that message?
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Man, what you put down it's okay.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah. I look at I look at at the crazy
people's lags, like those are the weirdos to me. Yeah,
ye see what I'm saying. So I don't like when
you're just comfortable in your own skin. And I mean
that's one of the reasons why I respect you so much.
Like you you one of those cats that you know,
you Jason Wilson, your brother Jason Wilson. It's just it's
(17:09):
and I feel I feel bad for my dad now
cause theyen hat is like they had to be me
and my brother because my brother, he's in the same journey.
I'm on to my little brother. I'm so proud of him.
And we every day we talk. We big basketball fans
and he is Chicago and Lasa. We on the We
literally be on the phone the whole game. You would
thought we had a podcast with it, but but we're
(17:31):
always so you know, We've been having these great moments
of like really trying to understand who are parents and
our grandparents and why like why my uncle was this
way and my dad was this it was and then
it what's crazy? My dad going through dementia? He starts
he talks about things from his past as if happening now.
So that's why we're learning stuff like yo, you're ready
(17:53):
just saying where was that? Like you know what I mean, Like,
that's it's really fascinating. But but that's how much I
love life and people like I'm even fascinated watching my
dad go through this process, which is it's tough to
watch and it's interesting at the same time because you
do wonder like at this point in somebody's life when
they're going through dementia, all like where are you? What's
(18:15):
the world to you? Now? Man? That's that's that's a
good question, man, you know what I mean, Like I
think about it every day for him, like what's what
do you when you wake up? Where do you think
you are? Like what year you think? Like it's just
I think that a lot of me. It's really because
he because he just talks about things as if like
one day he was talking to me about me. Wow,
(18:37):
he was he was talking about how I was gonna
kick my ass. Who's gonna go kick you?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Like, but it's all right, really believe in that brother
really beat me. But the boy with the glasses right,
so as you like, uh, is he at home or
is he at he's with my brother.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
So we had him, you know, which I've planned paying
out man paying a lot at this place he was at. Now,
the first place he was there was a blessing because
it was a place built for these rich white people,
built this place for their mom, and when she passed,
he just kept it open. It was near my brother's
house and he was staying there, so the care was
like really personable and perfect. And then they end up
(19:17):
closing and we ended up put them in another place
that wasn't as great and we had to be more
hands on so that my brother decided to bring him home.
But it's actually been a blessing for Matt. Matt is
you know. I was talking to his wife about it,
like she's so he's happier taking care of my dad
because he's the baby. And it's something about him having
this much responsibility for people that that was very much
(19:42):
responsible for him and every you know, he's been through
a lot, so it's a full circle moment. Man. It's
a beautiful thing to watch. He was just like when
I call, you know, hit him up and hit him interact.
He's just he's loving that responsibility. Man.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
And here is a unique thing about that is that's
also I am sure that I can probably rest. That's
probably healing for him.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
He literally said that it's very healing to him once again,
you know. And Matt, I'm so proud of him because
just to watch his progression. And we're close, you know,
we our middle brother passed away from cancer in twenty thirteen. Sorry,
and we're all really tight. We're still tight, you know.
I remember my Mama brought Matt home, you know what
I mean. And so like I've always felt responsible for him.
(20:32):
But what I do love what was happening now is
that we have these very vulnerable conversations now, like all
the time, you know, even you know, because I call
him when he liked to laugh everything instead of having
an emotional conversation, start laughing. I'm like, bro, you just
be laughing. You don't want to get there. But then
once he started crying, it wouldn't stop. Brother. Okay, wait
(20:53):
a minute, ain't gonna go in that. Oh no, But
I appreciate that. You know, he was just telling me
how much he appreciated me as a big brother and
showing up for him no matter what. But I'm like, dude,
I remember when Mama brought you home. I don't even
know where you came. That's why I even really understand
when babies came for I just do a baby came home?
Did your brother? Like? Okay, uh, but I do. I
(21:17):
remember asking my mamas, you know, Recipe's mama too, But like, like,
did this happen? Wasn't the dream because I remember grabbing
his hand and telling them like, yo, I got you.
And that's just been what it is since since then.
And so like to see him become this dude. He
has a white kids. He's the suburbs of Chicago. You know.
(21:38):
I went over to his house last summer and just
spent some time that I was sitting there all yea,
you know, just watching like because he's been through it
once again. He went through a lot. He got like
locked up before. And I remember me and Marcus, my
brother passed away. You know, we was kind of beefing
at the time, because you know, you close to age
with somebody, I kind of bump heads, especially growing up,
and at that point, you know, I feel like he
(21:59):
was taking advantage of my parents. I didn't want to
talk because he wouldn't move out. Man, you take it
advantage of this, I ain't gonna talk to you. And
by doing that, we kind of went on our own
grind and Matt got locked up, and we blamed ourselves,
like dang, we neglected him because we was beefing and
doing our own thing, and so as soon as he
got out, we was on him. You know what I'm saying.
(22:20):
I was taking him to all my shows, and I
got him a job, and Marcus would let him out
of sight and just to see him become who he
has become. Man, extremely responsible. That's beautiful, most beautiful. We
came from an era when you think about people who
grew up in the nineties and how many people I know,
I lost a lot of friends. Yeah, I saw so
(22:42):
many young people get killed. And I think that's a
week of time we don't talk about unless you like
start to see like they're making these shows now that's
kind of like making it throwback but man, it was crazy.
It was a crazy It was something I got, like
were you in Chicago and in Chicago? Yeah, the West
Side Chicago. So like, you know, I talked about one
of my specials. My first therapy says shit and oh no,
(23:03):
it's a new special coming out. But it was like, well,
my therapist like, yo, you know that was crazy, right,
Like those are children that would be murdered, like you
know it could, but I normalize them in a way
because that's I was used to seeing it. And so
to get through that, I've own and been happy to
just be not not just be alive, but for real,
(23:24):
for real, be living because it's a lot of people
who didn't see past twenty two.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, and then for us to be black men in
forties that are thriving, that are healthy, and then two
we've also made changes to enhance our quality of living,
which you don't see because brothers. I hear a lot
of brothers that look at forty as if man is over,
(23:49):
and I'm like, forty, I believe forty is your prime.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
You you you you have. Author C Brooks talks about
this in this book From Strength to Strength. You have
Christies intelligence. This is what he called it. What he
called it is stored wisdom.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
You live long enough to you have acquired enough wisdom
on how to not just make decisions, but to understand
the decision that needs to be made.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Let me tell you something, like you know, that's it's
like I mean, I look at even just my journey
with just the next level of how I see God
and see my life and see you know, everything that's
coming to me, like you know, being older and being wiser.
I love the fact that I don't humanize God anymore
(24:37):
like people love to make God human like they always
find a way to like make God think like we
think and do like we do it. None of that,
none of it exists, right, And so you know, I
look at like you know, which is why I've enjoyed
the journey more than ever, because I'm not trying to
force or predict how I'm going to be blessed. I
do know God has already opened those doors to me.
(25:00):
Wisdom is it's about my decision making. Ye come on,
which one of these doers I go through? Come on
right on the go right right? So I love the
fact that I have moments when I'm like, oh God,
I don't want to make this good decision because it's
going to require way too much work.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, yeah, listen that that's what you know.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
You get a stride, you know what I mean? You
just you know, he's like, but I know I get it,
and it's not as hard as I think it is.
It's just because you know, sometimes we overthink the work. Bro.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Let me ask you this when you know, coming from
Chicago and I'm sure that was secondary trauma, uh, trauma
that you experience just directly when you started really experiencing success.
How did that impact you mentally when things really started happening.
(25:49):
Did you feel like, is this supposed to happen to me?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yep? I I mean you you you go through your
guilt trip. You feel guilty about it a little bit,
especially in stand up too, Like a lot of these
cats you come up with over the years, and you
may be the one that made a decision like I
ain't gonna just stay at the crib. It's gotta be
(26:14):
born than just doing stand up in Chicago. I want
to be a movie star, which is while like I
applied my business partner and my form managing knowledge back
Ona who helped me do the festival one of the
things I love about him is man he never like
downplayed any of the crazy things I would pitch you.
So when he was managing me early in the early years,
I'm gonna be a movie star and I'm an write
(26:36):
and I'm a direct and I'm aroduce and I'm gonna
do this, I'm host talk to you, host a game.
I was just throwing out stuff, right, I'm gonna be
at I was just saying out landing stuff. And he
never said, well, I don't know. It was always like yeah, yeah,
all right, and so like when you have at least
one person like Man, yes, the sky is Man is
(26:59):
the limit, you know, and so like. But early on, Man,
I felt guilty about a lot of stuff. I think,
once again, that's why the persona was running things. The
persona was able to kind of because I didn't know
what to do with any of that. All I did
was act like I knew what I was doing when
I didn't know what I was doing, like when I'm
showing Fox. You know. One of the biggest things I
learned was that, I mean I would walk around walk
(27:21):
in the writer's room because I was I did everything
and I'd be giving all these notes and go to
my office like, oh, I know what I'm doing, but
I wanted the front instead of me just letting everybody know, like, man,
this is my first time around. Is let's all collaborate.
I was trying to be the big boss because of
the Dane Dash videos and they're like, you know, you
see people do all this, like yeah, this is what
the boss is. And really, you know, my vulnerability would
(27:44):
have made me a better person at charge. And I
learned a lot from that. And I had to own that,
you know what I'm saying. I had to own just
even a lot of stuff. Even when I became number
one on the call sheet and the movies and all
this other stuff, it was always trusted out. And then
you know, I come from a military family, Like, yeah,
I got always but blackness sometimes like sometime other white
people weren't even doing nothing to me, but I created something, wow,
(28:08):
to just be angry about and to go against. Yeah,
let me talk to the executives. You know, it's just stupid. Yeah.
And so like once again, now that I'm present and
I've let the persona lead, I've been able to replay
all these moments y'all. Damn that was crazy, you know
what I mean. And so some people have been able
to like go and apologize to like, yo, I'm sorry
(28:28):
for if I came off with a certain way that wasn't
I'm sorry, y'ah. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean,
and so like to own And I mean, that's what
I love about God is that you know, I'm enjoying
this next phase of my life and just wisdom and
maturity and being present while I've been enjoying like the
(28:50):
smaller moments.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Man, that that those smaller moments are a series of
alto big moment. That's how I like to see it,
because there are these little moments where you get to
be present.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Like so I've been out here.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
In La working on this TV thing that have me
and they were for the past two days, and and
that God goes, doctor J. How you feel, you know,
do you need to go with da da da? I said, no, Man,
I said, I'm just in this moment. How do you
feel about everything? I said, Bro, I'm good. I'm just
in this moment. And I think because we live in
(29:30):
such an anxious world and ancious society that to see
people who are present, it's like you know, and and
of course even getting here today, like they would have
me come back to the studio and do some more stuff,
and you know, in their world, it's like you get
to come back.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
The call back is like this is a good sign,
doctor J. And he's like, how do you feel? I said, man,
I'm just in this moment, man, And.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
He was like, you always is smool. I said, Man,
I gotta be present because, like you said earlier, you know,
when the numbers start going up an age and you
realize you don't have a lot of summers left, you
become conscious of like, let me stay right here with
my feetup player, let me get out tomorrow and let
(30:11):
me stay in today. I want to pivot. You're I
met your fiance, man, like I love her, Man, She's amazing.
She she got that fire man. She got to have
a conversation and kind of hear her background and just
kind of ministry and stuff that she come from.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Man.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And I know relationships, uh brings healing, but what was
the healing that she brought for you?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Man? You know some is this might be kind of deep,
I guess, but like I like the fact because when
we met, I feel like I showed up with all
my bs right like you finished, I want you to
know the worst of me. Yeah, because we always try
to give everybody the best. I think I'm doing. But
lets you see, and that's what came up first. And
(31:03):
she never she didn't leave my side, but she wasn't
judging me. And I remember, like I had a moment
where like I was shooting a movie and me and
it's the co star. He was bumping heads, you know
what I'm saying. He was he was kind of white
boying it up.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Man.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
I couldn't take it, no mo, So I checked right,
I was like the West side of Copan came out
like you know what I mean. I remember it just
was quiet off. Everybody had their mask going. He on
what faces they was making. But I was like, fam
let me say this, you know, because he was doing
too much, you know what I'm saying. And I needed
a break. I told him, look I had there, gave
me like a week in off. And so my friend
(31:39):
Drawing Carmichael, the town was hosting SNL and I know,
I'm gonna go to New York and I'm about to
support your rye. So Danella came with me to New York.
That was actually one of our first trips to actually
and you know that, the production called me while I'm
in New York like, oh, we need you to come
right back. I'm like, no, I told y'all, y'all this dude,
and I need I can't. I'm not coming back. And
(32:02):
then it was kind of like a thread we could
consue you you know, you know the producer it was.
It was kind of crazy, and I stood my ground
on that, you know what I'm saying. And I remember
hanging up and I was like, Okay, I just roll
my career. They're not gonna I'm not gonna do no
more movies or nothing because I had just totally executives. Nah,
my mental health is way more important. And I just
(32:25):
I got I think I got emotional. I started like
crying and what I loved about and it was something
I never experienced before. She didn't. I didn't feel less
than the man because I showed emotion in front of her.
And at that moment, I was like, this is how
she see it, and that's what it is, man, right,
you know what I'm saying. I ain't got to deal
with it no more, you know what I'm saying. But
(32:47):
she was very comforting. She didn't even say anything it
really she was just present with me and didn't treat
me differently or look on me like I was saw
And that was a big moment for me with her,
you know what I'm saying. And then like since then,
we been on this journey for both of us. That's
what's been crazy is that, you know, she was like,
(33:07):
you know, you miss a rail. You stretched me, and
she meane like spiritually, you know, could we have we
get us some deconversations everything, and we both have grown
so much because we've been very vulnerable and it was
hard to get that out of her because she's you know,
she met her before. She's a firecracker. She's very outspoken
this and that. But some of that was persona driven too.
(33:29):
So when both of us recognized that the personas was
in front, and now we got to be extremely real
with each other. It's taking our relationship to another level
of just being like the vulnerability part of it. And
then now we're blending families and those real conversations about
you know, how we interact with our kids now because
now it's getting real real. But I love the fact
(33:53):
that we're taking it there, like even when we was
praying it's more and I don't know that is dope. Man. Yeah,
I feel like I'm real lucky to have her. Man.
I love how we have our discussions with God together,
even if it's taller stuff like God, you she said,
she started it. You know, we literally that's.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
How we young weep the man, and I think that
brings a unique balance to understanding your divinity and your humanity.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Is God is in the middle. But right now, nigga,
you get on my nerves, you know, real and she
shows up, like I'm telling you, man, nigga ship and
she's there. He showed up, He showed I love it.
He showed up, yea, And it was kind of crass
(34:46):
of God man happening now. And I just meant that
I kind of want to impress all. I keep showing
all this crazy. But as I was going through this
transition to getting better, bro, that was it was a fighting,
you know what I'm saying, man. And so, Man, I
don't know, I think some stuff, I mean maybe at
the neck spatial or y'all, that I'll dive into the
(35:08):
people probably like what yeah, because it you know, God
is good man, and Danella just so though I really am.
I'm like so lucky and just even I mean, our
conversations even got deeper. You know, she's a light skinned
black woman, and we get deep into those right because
for a long time I would even date a light
skin woman because I didn't want everybody to assume. Once
(35:32):
I got some bread, that's what I went and did. Y'all, man,
that's real. That's a real thing. And feel like for me,
I found once I dropped that and just let love
be what it is. But still have my issues with
that and on that too. And then I had to
hear her perspective on how she grew up with people
assuming what they assume about her and that's even crazy.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, yeah, you know, and I just shared my story
that has been do I watched that the colorism thing?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Man? Is that some real thing? Man? Did you experience
any of that? You know? Some for some weird reason?
And I love my mama for this. I was this
over confident black nerdy boy. Yeah I don't even know,
Like when I look at how greasy I was, I'd
be looking at our pictures of myself. How did I
get the finest girl in class? Like? But I was
so my mother had me so confident in myself. I
(36:26):
didn't really experience that for real till my son was
going through it when it broke my heart when he
came home from school one day about what these kids
were saying and I had to have this really upliftic.
That was the first I have a bald about that.
I didn't cry in front of him. Maybe I wish
I would have, but it was after getting his confidence up.
I had to go take a drive and I was like, man,
(36:46):
I ain't think he would go through that because I
ain't go through it, and I thought it was worse
in the eighties and nineties. Yeah, but you know when
you get you know, your kids go to these schools
you think are better, and you know, white kids or
black it's just people just talk him crazy. Man. I
couldn't believe what they were saying to him and he
had to hear that. Yeah, because it, man, it impacts you,
(37:08):
man uh greatly in a way. There you can't even
see yourself for who you really are because you're now
seeing yourself through the lens of their words. That was
tough because that was family to happen to you.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
That's that's what at that like that, and I think
I think the one thing that always bothered me about
Bessie and the family is it was it was almost
like it was perpetuated because no one wanted to tell
her because it's like, well, that's just how Bessie is,
(37:42):
so no one never wanted to correct her.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And even to this day, you know, when that my
dad called me just like, you know, all these people
calling me about Bessie man and this and that, and
my mother said, you know, my dad name is Jimmy.
My mother said, with.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Jimmy, ain't nobody never stand up for that boy and
tell Bessie by herself well and his things. You know, well, Mary,
that's just how these old folks were. And so as
as as as as if you just had to accept it.
And when I released that, for me, that was me
releasing a persona because like yourself, uh, I only it's
(38:21):
like I was afraid to just date period because I
always felt like at some point, like even if a
woman said I love your beautiful skin, I'm like, at
some point she's gonna get mad and it's going to
be you know, your black ass, because that's what I
was accustomed, you know what I mean. And I experienced
that with a few and unfortunately, uh some black girls
(38:45):
that you know I dated in high school. You know
that that was like it was always like your black
ass because I played ball, so you know, we outside
all day, you know, with football. So that's what I
knew is that you know, oh he girl his old
black ass, or yeah, he black his hair and you
know it's dark. And then too, it was also wrestling
with the fact that I'm the darkest one in my
(39:06):
family and having to really unpack that.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
But releasing that it brought not only healing to the man,
but healing to the little boy. That's what I love
about you talking about that. I told Danella the other
day I want her to publicly like because we the
girls and the kids through like a Mother's Day brunch
at the house and they made food or whatever, and
we was having a real discussion about that. She told
(39:31):
the story I never heard a table before, and I'm like, honestly,
I would like for you, you know. She's like, well,
I want to tell it because of other like people,
the way they they've painted a narrative. But I'm like, no,
what you just said, Well, give people empathy because it's
very honest and it was very real, and nobody sees
it from that perspective because it's almost like what you're saying, right,
(39:52):
can you imagine because it happens both ways of colorism
and our black families. Right, it's like you either catch
it because you're the darkest one or you the light
lightest one. Yep, And so like it's just it's you know,
it's it's a discussion. I think we should stop running
away from We're going to like make right by this.
(40:12):
I agree, man, you know what I'm saying. And I think.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Even just with you sharing about not wanting to date
a light skinned woman and then just her having her experience,
I think that that becomes a colorful conversation that provides
so much perspective to people because that conversation, man, like
my DM was just on fire from men and women
(40:38):
who were saying this was my experience. I experienced this
from my mom, I experienced this from my cousins, and
and this is what really, man, this podcast is about,
is bringing healing.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Man.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
I want to want to end with this last question
that I asked all guests, and it's a question that
I feel like it is the foundation of.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
What this podcast represent is the real that you are today?
What does healing means to you? Mm hmm, yeah, you
know what's this is. I mean this might be kind
of deep, but what healing means to me, especially right now,
(41:22):
is is I don't want to see it like this.
I'm trying to see it the right way. Man, Say,
how do you feel it? Man? Me? Me? Me putting
an effort in to just heal all these wounds has
kept me alive. Wow, I don't. I don't think if
(41:50):
I ever like, I don't, I don't know if I'll
be alive bro, even in success and all that, like
for real, Like, I don't think so, because it's easy
to get in these dark places even when things are
(42:12):
going well, especially if you haven't dealt with these wounds.
So I always gonna thank my assistant, my old assistant, April,
when I had this panic attack one day on my
stairs and I never had one before, and she kept
telling me to go to therapy. Ya you know, because
(42:37):
I kept doing little stuff to like sabotage myself. Even
people don't know publicly what was happening. It was sabotaging happened,
and I didn't know why. You know what I'm saying,
so if I didn't start searching for true healing and
we're talking about therapeutic, we're talking about spiritually. And then
as I went through the healing process, as the glow
(42:59):
started happening, man, that's when God sent in up at
my life. Wow. So I've been able to be loved
properly and love properly y'all because of the healing, and
I feel more alive than effort. And we talking about
it every way you could think of, like even just
going on my health journey, like the way you know
when I tell people, you know, I work out every
(43:21):
single day and all that stuff, but like it was honestly,
it was stuff attached to me that had nothing to
do with like the physical weight. But it was that
like when I look I could look at get Out
in certain movies and I could see that I was
depressed even on performing and I'm killing it. I'm looking like,
(43:42):
I know how sad I was. You know what I'm saying.
What I'm saying, yes, And it's like as soon as
I started letting all these things go. If I remember
the day my little six pack came in, I'm like,
what it is coming from I've been like cause I
was on my workour and it was one thing I
was like, I couldn't get rid of this billy. And honestly,
it was when I stopped drinking and I went on
this fast, you know, when I joined Cali Worship. Shout
(44:08):
out to Warren Campbell, Erica Campbell. I went on this
fast man, And at the end of the fast that day,
I fell on my knees in my bedroom and just
like shard everything off of me, Like God has played
this highlight reel of Yeah, you made mistakes, but I'm
still proud of you. So it's like God showed me
(44:29):
all my mistakes and then literally it like I remember,
it was like mistake, mistake and mistake, mistake, mistaken. Then
this curve went up. Well I'm proud of you though,
because this is what you've done. Wow. And so yeah,
that's where I'm at. Like, so for me, healiness is surviving,
bro yah.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Was just let that sit for a moment because I
feel the same way. Man, had I not found this face,
I don't think i'd be I knew I know I
would because statistic shows when you have survived several suicide attempts,
(45:11):
the likelihood of you attempting again is very high. So
I know for myself, Man.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Had I not really done the work and had that
God encounter moment, I wouldn't because, like you said, Man,
it's almost like the dark spaces are everywhere and you
have to search for light, and searching for light can
(45:39):
be exhausting because darkness it just seems to be you know, omnipresence.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
And so Man, brother, I just want to say, Man,
thank you bro for your vulnerability today, man, and thank
you for sharing. I know this episode is going to
help a lot of brothers and a lot of men.
Just also encouraged men to keep to keep pursuing another
version of themselves and to keep all, as I like
(46:09):
to say, remain curious.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Is there more light life going life? Man? Light life
is going life, and especially for us brothers, is like
not only that, but let's all continue to communicate with
each other. You know that is so important for us
to talk to each other, you know what I'm saying.
And get rid of these personas. Man, if you gotta
(46:34):
let your homie know, like Bro, I don't need to
see the persona. Yeah, Like what's up? Who are you.
Who are you? Man?
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Listen healing and Survival and to my brothers and to
my sisters. Maybe you're connected to somebody who needs to
share that persona And I want to challenge you the
acce person who are you? As you just heard my brother,
our friend Ral said, who are you? The more we
(47:07):
allow people to see who we are, I think, the
better experience we have from each other because now we
don't have to wear these masks.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
I know some of you at watching, and I want
to encourage you. Don't just come to the healing community,
be a part of it. Subscribe to the YouTube channel.
It's growing fast, and this healing community, it's all about
providing insight and also providing tools through these transformation and
transformative conversation that we're having with people from all walks
(47:40):
of life.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Today.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
You didn't hear a comedian today. You heard from a
man who took the journey to discover more of himself.
And I just want to encourage you to continue your
journey wherever you are, whether that's therapy, whether that's coaching,
whether that's touching grass, hug and trees, whatever modality you
choose to use, do something to put you on the
(48:02):
path or do something to allow you to have a
better quality of life. And until next time, remember healing
is a journey and wholeness is the destination.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Just here with Doctor J, a production of the Black
Effect podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. And you
can follow me at King J. Barnett on Instagram and
x and follow us on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Just Heal Doctor J.
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