September 23, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode of Just Heal with Dr. Jay, Dr. Jay Barnett sits down with award-winning filmmaker and author Devon Franklin for a powerful conversation on healing, faith, and the role of storytelling in personal growth. Together, they explore the importance of nurturing relationships, being fully present, and choosing the right partner as part of one’s healing journey. Franklin reflects on the themes behind his film Ruth and Boaz, sharing how grief, hope, and faith intersect in both art and real life. The discussion highlights the impact of mental health awareness, the transformative power of resilience, and the ways authentic storytelling can inspire audiences to embrace their own journeys of healing and self-discovery.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to jess Here with Doctor J, a production of
the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
Just Here with Doctor J. And I am your host,
Doctor J. Barnett. Listener, some of y'all been kind of
eavesdropping on the episodes, but I want to encourage you
to go ahead and subscribe to our YouTube link Just
Hell Doctor J. You can listen audibly on Spotify, the
(00:22):
Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeart Podcast Network as well.
We are doing some amazing things over here in the
healing community where we are bringing it enlightenment. We're bringing
conversation that is really provoking change those that are on
the healing journey. And more importantly, we want to continue
to support you wherever you are in your mental health.
(00:44):
And remember, your mental health will determine the quality of
your life. All right. So today I am excited to
have a brother of mine. Listen. I met this brother
many years ago and we were talking about it on
a live that we did for his one man show.
But I'm excited to have him to share his new film,
(01:04):
Ruth and Boass. This film, I believe I had the
opportunity to watch it. I believe for you ladies, it's
gonna provide a lot of hope. So Devon had you
all in mind. But anyway, without further ado, I want
to welcome my brother, my brother and friend, filmmaker Devon Franklin.
How are you doing, brother, kid said the lady. Come
in listen, brothers, I will say, Brothers, if you have
(01:29):
this type of journey, I probably I will see you
at the altar. Okay. I felt incouraged. Okay, that's good.
I felt in courage on my single journey. Man, I said, listen,
I know I'm a bow ass man. I know I
got some got some things with me man that I
would would be open to share with my roof So Man,
thank you brother for joining the healing community, Man Jesse.
(01:52):
Here with doctor j Man. This platform and this this
space is for conversations that provide healing and conversation that
allow people to share their journey. And I think what
you did with this film is so much healing man
all over this film.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Man.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So my first question to you is is I ask
every guest, because my background is a therapist, how are
you feeling, just in this moment now? Feeling good? You
know what I mean? Feeling good? Man? You look good man. Yeah,
I could tell. Man, I got to ask you, what
is your secret? Oh? Man? You know what?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
The secret honestly is embracing the moment, right, like really
just saying okay, this is where I am, and being
okay with it, you know that inner you know, being
settled on the inside, like that is the thing that
really helps me, you know, feel better. Right, It's like, okay,
you know, I'm dealing with different things and different challenges
(02:52):
at work and you know, productions and stuff, and it's like.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Okay, like it's all right, this is where we are,
how we're going to move forward.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
But finding being centered is what really helps me kind
of keep a baseline, not doesn't mean that every moment
is like I'm feeling great line right, the baseline of like, okay,
this is happening, all right, So all right, it's happening.
Let me figure out what my response is to it.
And that just keeps me grounded. And then also having
the right woman in my life. I mean, you know,
certainly you know my wife, I mean, my goodness, I
(03:18):
mean we talk about your art, right, it just is like,
no matter what I'm dealing with, knowing I have heard, man,
I'm good So what.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I hear two things. What I hear you saying, brother is,
for one, always be where your feet are planted. Amen. Yeah,
I think we don't realize how much that can minimize anxiety,
because anxiety is being here and wanting to be there
there you go, you know, And I love that being
where your feet are planted, and then just embracing the moment.
And then partnership and for a lot of brothers that
(03:48):
I have a lot of men that follow my work,
you know, my background being a pro athlete, and men
are really interested on what does life look like with
the right partner and as you just so you know,
talk about you know, having your wife and having that
how important is that man, particularly in the space that
(04:09):
you're in as a creative Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Man, listen, I find it important, you know, having the
right partner. And then I think as a man. You know,
a lot of times we're conditioned to believe that, oh well,
you know, settling down, you know is a problem. You know,
we're conditioned to be like to think that the more
the better, But in my experience, you know, the more
the chaos. Okay, you know, it's like and then so
(04:38):
what happens is when you buy into that philosophy as
a man, Okay, well, the more women I have, you know,
the better off I'll be.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
The No, we just become better chaos managers. You know
that's good. Brothers. Listen, y'all brothers out here, y'all hopping
on these poly trains. Man, y'all better hit his brothers.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
So so for me, you know, as a man, you know,
finding the right partner, you what happens is on the inside,
there's that piece because I'm committing my life to her
and she's dimitting her life to me, and we create
space and keep space for one another in that.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So because of that, there's peace, right and having that
right partner who you know has your bad who you
can talk to, who you can talk with, who respects
you and you respect them. For us as men, I
believe that it is a game changer because it is
very easy on some level in terms of emotionally, it's
very easy to manage more more than one, right, Yeah,
(05:34):
because emotionally you don't have to You don't ever have.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
To do the work, No you don't. But when you're
with one, you got to dig in and do the work.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
And when you're with the right partner, that work is worthwhile.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Man, brother, that's a book. That's a book is never
that is a book, man, because I think devine, you know,
and for men like us right that we've achieved and
you see a lot of men, particular for black brothers,
that when we achieve success, and if you came from nothing,
(06:06):
there is this notion that I have to get it
all and getting there and getting it all is that
I got to have more. And what I'm hearing from
you is making that decision to choose. It's not only
settling your life, but it's also allowing you to settle
into the piece of what a covenant relationship would do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Absolutely, And I think it settles you into peace and
it also settles you into purpose there. I mean, listen,
you know how it is when you're dating, okay and
you're trying to you know, figure it out. What happens
is you spend a lot of time, energy, money, you know,
going with this one or doing that with that one,
and this and that and and that. Think about all
(06:48):
the energy and tells money spit to managing. That's why
I'm talking about it's as management. It's exhausting and think
about if if you had all of that time and
energy and money not only to pour into one person,
but also poor into your purpose a think about the progress,
think about the impact. And so it's it's very important.
Every man has to choose their.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Own path, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
But for me, you know, going through my season of
single and you know, really trying to figure it out,
you know, being able to you know, have received you know,
my wife, and to be able to then start to
build you know, a life with her, it has been
you know, a phenomenal game changing for man.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
That's so amazing. Brother, my, my, my. As you were talking,
my thought is what stands out to you? You know,
as you came out of the singleness, and then you said, man,
I want to choose her. What was the thing if
you can give me like two things that stood out
to you. Because brothers you know that are married, I'm
always asking them what was it about her? Yeah? You know,
(07:45):
because when we choose, well, women don't realize man, when
we choose, we're choosing according to something about you that
have pulled our heart because you may you know, I
have to tell these you know a lot of single ladies.
You may get his body and that's what y'all doing.
But when you grab a man's heart, yeah, and you
shift that heart to where he said, I'm going to
(08:08):
choose you, you you've done a number on them. So
what was it about your wife, man that made you
sens man?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
It's her, you know, it was really her nurturing spirit,
and it's just it's it's a hard thing to describe,
but you know, she is such a loving, you know person.
And you know from the time that I was young,
the middle chimeter three boys, and my finally died of
a heart attack when he was thirty six, and so
(08:38):
my mother, you know, raised us, you know, pretty much
on her on her own, with the help of my
grandmother and my grandmother's seven sisters. But growing up, you know,
we were in survival mode a lot of the time, right,
you know, getting makes your food was on the table,
and clothes on her back, get to school and and
all those things, and keep a roof over you know,
our heads up. That's how we were. We were, And
so you know, a part of me, you know, didn't
(09:00):
necessarily feel nurtured. And so when I met Maria, you know,
her disposition to me was, you know, I see that
inner child in you. You know, I want to hug
that bah.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Come on, come on, brother, come on, come on brother.
You're talking about talk. We get that's what she says
to me.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I want to, I want to I see him and
I want to hold You'll let him know he's okay.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
So man, wait when wait? She talking like that? I'm like,
all right, we're good. Let's say, will you know? Will
you marry me?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
You know?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
It was like all right, let's go because I ain't
had that, you know what I mean? Man?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
That was that really spoke to me on a deep level.
And then what that does is it produces a piece yes,
that I'm with someone that is not about performing or
it's about how much I got or what I know.
It's about like, oh no, this person sees me and
loves me and wants to care for me on on
(09:55):
the deepest level. And and then what happens as men
when we find that, then it's like, yo, I'll give
you the world like whatever you need it like, don't
even think about.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Before you even speak.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It's done because you're giving me what I need and
I can't find that in anybody else.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Y'all better pick up these gems. Is his brothers. Listen
what I love about what you shared? CJ, my producer.
We talk about relationships all the time, and one of
the things that I say, Bro, I don't know how
many women can really identify the little boy in the
(10:31):
man that needs to be hugged, because when you're raised
on survival like you were, I was raised on survival.
I'm the oldest of three, and when you're raised on survival,
on surviving, you don't have an understanding of how to
receive because everything is about how do I make it
through this day? And when you think about making it
(10:52):
through this day, you think about, Okay, how do I
show up? And when you're showing up, it's often performing,
so I'm usually looking for us, and if that stops,
I'm like, well, I don't know what was happening. Because
I've been taught and even shape socially environmental, that if
(11:14):
you don't do anything, no one is going to clap
for you. So we now begin to think that everything
about our existence has to be about receiving the praise
and receiving the applause. And what I'm hearing from you
is that you saw an audience that said I'll clap
(11:35):
if you do nothing.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yes, exactly, one thousand percent. I'm clapping just because of
who you were, just because of.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Who you are period. In fact, the little boy don't
have to you remember these little boys especially you have
family over. We all wanted to go into the living
room and put on the show. Yep, exactly get those
little dollars, you know. And what she's saying is, I
just want the little boy to be held exactly, and
(12:03):
that is not did that feel man for you? When
your little boy was acknowledged? What did that do for
the man? And it provided deep healing.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
You know, because I you know, to your point, like
you know I talk about in the Be True you
Know book, I talk about how I was an achievement addict, right,
and that achievement was to you know, there to you know,
try to really fill that hole in my soul. And
so to your point, like wanting the praise, wanting the accolades,
and then if those things weren't there, if the applause
weren't there, at times, I wouldn't feel, you know, good
(12:37):
about myself. And so getting to the place where I
have a partner who says, you know, I know what
you do in the world, and all that's great, that's wonderful,
and I'm proud of you, but you need to know
that I accept you for you, not for what you do.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And so that just it.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Created a piece, It created a healing, you know, so
much so that like as as men, you know, prior
to I think finding the right partner and making the
commitment to that partner, we don't realize how much turmoil
our souls are in man talk about it as well.
It's almost like there's there's an inner storm that we
(13:14):
just get so used to that innertension, that inner frustration,
that inner like you know, because here's the thing, It's like,
no matter how you navigate, you know, single list, especially
if you're you're dating, you know, it takes time and
energy and effort. And then you you know, you wonder,
okay am I being my true self? And and and
why am I engaging with these different women in this
(13:35):
different way? So on the inside there's a turmoil, there's
an unsettling in the spirit. And so for me, when
I found Maria, my spirit got selled and there was
a peace that then I can I can think, I
can work, I can create from a place of peace.
And that is It's something that is deeply hard to
even articulate, but when you find it, it's what life
(13:58):
is about. And the other thing I would say is
that you know, as men, you know, you know Scripture says,
you know, husbands and Efesians five, husbands, love your wives,
as Christ loved the church, and then the next command
after that is he loved the church, and then he
gave everything for the church. So the idea that we
as men, our dispositions should be to give, you know,
and and when we are with the right one, they
(14:21):
don't take from us, they receive from us, and then
they recitricate to us. That's how you know you're with
your right one, because there are a lot of people
you know that may want to take what you have
to give. That just means I'm not your person, right
but don't But as men, you know, for me, you know,
with Maria like it enhanced the She enhanced the giver
in me. You know, that giver was like, oh, I
(14:44):
mean what gud you know, just hey, that's what I'm
and that's what I'm here to do, right And in
that dynamic of husband and wife.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
It's just it. For me, it has been a game changer,
you know.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
And before we got together, like I wasn't necessarily looking,
you know, for marriage, I was open to of love.
And that's another thing. As men, we gotta stay.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Open to it because because that that that love, of
that deep love of self, receiving that and having that
in our life, it's what matters the most.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Man. I watched the movie and as you're talking, I
see you a lot in Ruth deep Yeah, uh huh,
I could see that. Yeah, I see I see a
lot of you in Ruth. And of course we would say, oh,
we see ourselves as bow Ass. But when you think
(15:38):
about not having to do anything and bow Ass just
wanting to love her for her. And before you asked it,
what what was your inspiration behind modernizing the story, Billy
Cleave to bring it?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, you know, the inspiration was just what I was
going through personally. If I was in a season of
being single and I was doing a sermon series on
what it means to be single, and I think I
was in the second and third installment of that series,
and I was studying the Book of Ruth. And as
I was studying the Book of Ruth, it was right
around the same time that I was trying to figure out, like, Okay,
(16:17):
what's the movie, what's the next movie I'm going to make?
And as I was studying the Book of Ruth, I
was like, wow, this, First of all, it is really
powerful because she doesn't go looking for love at all,
you know, as a matter of fact, she's kind of
resigned that love's never going to happen for her, and
she's committed to serving Naomi and to make sure that Naomi,
(16:37):
you know, the kind of motherlike figure in the story,
is okay. So as a reward for her service and commitment,
God blesses her with the love. And I thought, wow,
there's just so many themes here when you read it,
it's just he's like a movie. And so I said, wow, Wes,
and I just said is this guy said, ever been
a movie version of this story? And I said, there's
never been a modern one.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
No.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I thought, wow, what an opportunity to do it modern
version of this story, to do it with people of color,
to deal with us, to bring it to like like
it's never been brought to light before. And as I was,
you know, working on the script with my two writers,
Corey Tynan and Mike Elliott, we just were developing it
and working on it. And the crazy part is as
we were developing it, you know, my love story with
(17:19):
Maria was developing, So it just was like developed. Working
on this movie was healing for me. Yeah, And I said, Okay,
I think if it's healing for me, you know, not
that I'm going to be end all be all as
a litmus test, but I feel like if this story
can move me, then it can move others. And I
think any great movie, it's always going to come from
someone involved in the creation of that film that has
a personal connection to it, absolutely, And so for this
(17:41):
the personal connection was you know, so often when we
go through heartbreak, or we go through heartache, or you
go through the tragedy of that Ruth's experience in the film,
you tend to say, hey, you know what, maybe God's
best is not available to me. Yeah, And so in
this movie, you know, when you see that wait, all
you have to do is stay cany your heart open,
keep following that, you know that voice of God, keep
(18:04):
pursuing service, and then the things that we need show up.
And if love is one of those needs, then we
can be guaranteed it will show up. So for me,
It was really healing to be able to produce this
film and bring this film to life for those reasons.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Man, And when I tell you, you did a phenomenal job,
the characters, everyone. It was beautifully shot, It was beautifully written,
I mean the acting, I mean everything. Because I took
off I was looking for my clinical lens, but then
I put on my thesbian lens and all of this.
And I'm gonna tell you what stood out to me,
what I loved about it is you showed grief in
(18:40):
real time. Yeah. People of color don't grieve well, and
I don't think we often realized that whether you have
lost love, you have lost a loved one, you've lost
a job, when you have to deal with grief. And
one of my favorite quotes in the movie is that
that grief comes like an unexpected storm. Yes see it,
(19:05):
you never see it coming. And I often have to
tell clients is that grief is also the price we
pay for lovemen. Yeah, And what I loved about bringing
that because when when when when we don't agree well,
we continue to sort of lament and load. And what
(19:27):
happened is you'll find yourself not really dealing with it
or sitting with it. And what I loved about it
is that even though Naomi had this difficult time of
dealing with this grief, Ruth was allowing her to really
sit in it and not run from it while she's
running from something.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
In that But that's so that's so ourful, level was
the saying, because so often we don't take enough time
to acknowledge the feelings we have around whatever losses we endured.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
In life, especially believers.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Absolutely, it's like, oh, you know, you know, God is
good all the time, all the time.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
God is good.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
That's true. Those are true statements. And and yeah, it's
okay to acknowledge, hey I just got ran over. Come
on me, bro, It's okay to just acknowledge, Hey, I'm
I'm hurting.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
You know. It's like like you're not going to.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Go into the hospital and someone you know has just
gone through a horrific accident and tell them to get up.
That would be insensitive, except that would be unloved. But
that's what we do to ourselves. Yes, you know, it's like, no,
take the time, you got it. You gotta heal because
if we don't take the time to grieve, which is
part of the healing process, yes, that whatever we're not healing,
it's gonna come out in ways that will be detrimental
(20:42):
and potentially destriving.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Because just because you hide it doesn't mean it's not there. Yes, right,
that's right, absolutely, And I love how you know, the
film also took Naomi back to the place that she
really despise. And sometimes God will take you back to
(21:04):
places that you resent just to reveal who you are.
You know what I mean, man, bro when I tell you,
because I was looking at the film from so many
different lens, and you know, I've watched it three times already,
and I was looking from it from so many and
I got something every single time, because when I have
work with individuals who are going through grief counseling, man,
(21:26):
it's difficult because if you lost a loved one, the anger,
just the pain of them not returning. And there's a
part where she's talking about you know that not coming back.
But I think what the film is going to do
de Vaughn is that may be true. But what if
(21:48):
what you lost was is what was what was needed
for you to gain? And I know that's difficult to hear. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
it is.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
It is.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
And yet I think that, you know, when you're talking
about life and you're talking about loss, having that perspective
is actually a healing perspective because if I don't have
that perspective, if I don't believe the losses that I've
endured are necessary for the gains that are yet to come,
then what happens is I continue to mourn, and there
(22:23):
it is is look at life in the rear view
and say, oh, my goodness, if I hadn't lost whatever
that may have been, then I wouldn't be here or
then my life wouldn't be this. And don't get me wrong,
we have to acknowledge the loss. We have to grieve
the loss. Yet we also for life, have to move
on from the loss and we have to open up
our heart to whatever is yet to come. And so
(22:45):
what you're saying is right, But it's a very you know, sophisticated,
emotionally mature way to look at life that anything that
I had lost is actually setting me up for what
I have yet to gain, and that if I keep
that mindset, she helps me get through things. Because if
I don't have that mindset, then what's the point of living,
what's the point.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Of being here?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
If I don't believe that everything I've gone through is
serves a purpose, right, yeah, for my good Yes, then
it's going.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
To be very hard for me to get up in
the morning. So that perspective, I think is phenomenal. Man,
It's going to be very, very, very hard. And also,
was it your intention in the film that Boaz loss
was also acknowledged? Yes? Absolutely, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
I mean one when you look at you know, what
happened with his father and his parents, and then there's
a moment in the movie you know, I won't ruin it,
you know where he experiences you know, loss, and again,
like the thing about the right woman in your life,
come on, is that way you go through loss? You
have that support system. Did what did she do in
(23:57):
that moment?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
She helped them?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yes, And then in the moment in the aftermath, she
was the one in the midst of loss that had
an optimistic point of view to say, hey, wait a minute,
maybe all is not lost, Maybe this is actually gay.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
So you need to you need to Hey, babe, I
tried this and got to watch the movie. Try go
watch the film. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And because of her encouragement, because of her seeing his
dream and saying no, no, no, no, no, you're looking
at this wrong. Your dream is not denied, it's not deferred.
Your dream is right. Now try it and then come
to find out that what he was working on became
even better him in what looked like loss. So the
(24:40):
fire didn't destroy, it actually revealed and that would have
never been the case if he didn't have the right
woman in his life.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yes, man, bro, let me take you Listen. I was
in the jail man doing cardio watching the film, and
I just felt encouraged, Like if one word that I
can say from that that just stood out, I felt encouraged.
And we were talking about it, you know, the team,
(25:09):
and I said, man, I really believe this film is
going to provide a lot of hope. Yeah. Uh, there's there.
There there there. There is a state of hopelessness that
I feel that a lot of individuals are in. Yep,
you know, not just from our political climate, not just
from the economic but I just think just from life.
(25:29):
Life is life right now, there are a lot of people.
What do you wanting individuals to take away from this film?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, I mean I want exactly what you said, hope,
Hope in the face of loss, Hope in the face
of heartbreak, you know, hope in the.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Face of grief.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Everybody goes through challenges, everyone goes through loss, and you know,
one of the things with when we don't have hope,
what happens our heart closes and hope deferred.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
That makes us the heart it right exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
And so for me, I want people to watch this
movie and have that hope to say, Okay, you know
what I can get through what I'm going through. I
can't open my heart to love. I can make myself
a committee of one to commit to service and participating
in the greater good of my family and my community
and my job and my workplace.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Like I can.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Those are things that I can do if it's so
often what happens also is that when we don't make
those commitments, we're like, well, love hasn't found me. And
I say, well, well, if you look for love, then
that means you're enhancing the absence of it. Mm, because wow,
think about it, you don't if you're looking for your keys.
Most time we don't look for our keys and peace, no,
(26:40):
no where is it.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I'll tearing up everything, tearing up everything you know, versus like,
you know what, instead of looking for love, I'm ready
to receive it, and that and that changes your whole posture.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I'm ready to receive it. So when those keys.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Show up, I trust that they're going to find me
at the right time. And until then, I'm going to
continue to live my life. I'm gonna be the love
I want to see. I'm gonna be of service, I'm
gonna have a joyful spirit, and then I'm gonna let
love come into my life when it's ready. That is
a different position in posture that I think will produce
more hope and a better life than saying I'm looking
(27:14):
for love and I haven't found it. So my hope
is that people will get that from the movie, Ruth
was not looking for love, Boaz was not looking for love. However,
when love showed up, they were ready to identify it,
they were ready to receive it. They were ready to
work through it in order to find the common ground
between each other.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Oh man, that's so good, brother, man, Wow, you got
you just gave me something. I won't be chelling all
the rest of the day. Man. Looking forward is also
enhancing the absence of it, exactly exactly, so I don't
I don't tell anybody. I tell nobody, don't look for love,
just be ready to receive it. Man, brothers stopped looking,
(27:52):
got their man DMS, let it find And I didn't
say it. That's what that's That's what my brother said.
And there's a day. Here's a nuancer.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Right, you could be in that man's DMS with the
receiving spirit and not a looking one.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Got your mindset that we have card terror moments over here,
Jesse here bro, and that is a card terror moment
right there, My friends, listen, y'all listen.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
He's an expert in this moment. So y'all need to listen. Man,
when you well, the actors, yes, Bro, Gosh Man Tyler
phenomenal man, Yes, I mean just phenomenal, uh surreal, Yes,
phenomenis And of course Felicia Rashad, I mean childhood legend,
(28:43):
you know, I mean just I mean everyone, man, how
was it you know and what was the what space
were you in when you were choosing how to fit
into the character?
Speaker 3 (28:57):
You know?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
For me, you know, I got my start, you know,
working as an intern for Will Smith and then I
was an executive at Sony Pictures for almost ten years
and work with him on everything from Suit Happening at
seven Pounds, Hancock After Earth, the Karate Kid Remade. And
so what I learned from him is, you know, always
commit to the process that goes for life. But also
(29:19):
in terms of filmmaking, commit to the process because sometimes
we want a film to be a certain thing, but
the process has taken us a different direction. So when
it comes to casting, I applied that, Okay, I'm committing
to the process that I don't know who the right Boaz,
Ruth and Naomi should be. I don't know, So let
me commit to the process of casting with our casting
(29:40):
director Lee Daniels Butler, our director of the film, Alana Brown.
Let's all you know, Tyler Perry was, you know, my
producing partner on it. Let's all you know, come together
and commit to a process that will reveal who was
supposed to play these parts. So we started with a
you know, casting search for Ruth and Boaz. You know,
we read audit probably hundreds of guys, hundreds of women.
(30:03):
And I had made a show with Sorea called Kingdom
Business for BT and I noticed that Sorea had not
come in yet for the audition, and I remember reaching
out to her. I'm like Hey, look you got it.
I want you to come in for this.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I think this could be great.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
And I learned that she had some hesitancy because she
just has always played like for an empire. And even
in our show Kingdom Business that I did with VT,
she plays a singer, and so she didn't want to
sing on film again, and I just said, I know,
but you trust me on this one. So she came
in and she auditioned and I was like, okay, see
everybody agreed, that looks like Ruth to me. So then
(30:40):
we were doing some chemistry reads with a few other
actors for the Boaz part with Sorea, and at the
eleventh hour, Tyler Leplie sent in a self table audition
and we all watched it and said, that looks a
little bit like Boaz to me. Then we did a
chemistry read with the two of them and it was
it was clear, Yeah, they were Ruth in Boaz Man.
That process got us to.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
You know, the result.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
And then with Naomi, when we were trying to figure
out who would play that, it was like, wait a minute,
you know, Felicia Rashad is you know she is she
represents that she's quintesdential Naomi. Yeah, and so we sent
her the script and she read it and she said,
I'm in. You know, we did her deal and that
was it. So it was just really committing to the
process and really seeing and that these were the ones
(31:24):
that were rising to the surface and they were just
perfect for the parks.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
And what I loved about it is that the individuals
that you picked. Man. As I was watching the film, bro,
it was like reading the Bible. Wow. Indeed, it was
like that, you know, I mean, you know Tyler, I
mean because you you would you know, his stature, like
you would kind of envision this is what a boass
(31:49):
looked like working in the field. And yes, and and Srea,
I mean it, Bro, it was just and then too,
you know, Felicia Vishad is just amazing. Man, the emotion
that she or you know, when you're dealing with loss
and I'm looking at all it, I'm just like, man,
this is I'm like, man, this and I'm watching the
film and I'm gonna say this, Brothers, I cried, listen.
(32:14):
Oh you got me, brother, you got it, You've gotten Listen, Listen.
I just put on a helmet for a living and
you know, and would dare not cry? You know you
may have cried with you lost, but you better not say. Man,
I was watching this move you know, brother Lati in
my man, Bro, I watched it and I just couldn't
(32:35):
help but think about what the story represented from the
biblical terms into what is representing from a cinematic view. Redemption.
Yeah right, you know what I mean? Redemption, dude, And
you think about right that boas and rules were connected
(32:57):
to Jesus lineage. Yeah, I know, he's you know it's
and man, bro, let's I'll tell you when I've watched this,
the similism with the why I see, I think my
brain is so so layered, man, the symbolic and people
(33:18):
if they watch that and just really watch it, because
you got to watch it and really watch it closely. Man,
Just so many messages in that man. You guys man,
phenomenal job. Brother, Like, phenomenal job. Man like love it.
I'm I'm happy you made that film because I think
devon oftentimes when we're reading a Bible, people don't see
(33:41):
themselves in the characters. You're right, and you made us
see ourselves in these characters. Wow. Man, I'm hoping that
you take more stories from the Bible and modernize it
because sometimes, Man, the films become the Bible that we read.
(34:03):
Absolutely one thousand percent.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I mean there are some people that will never open
the Bible, that will never go into to church, but
they will turn on Netflix. You know, Netflix has over
three hundred million subscribers. Netflix is in over one hundred
and ninety countries, and so to be able to take
a movie like this, with a message like this and
put it on the world's most powerful streaming service, the
impact is that we can't even begin to quantify. So
(34:28):
you are one thousand percent correct.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Man. I hope you feel proud brother, as a black
man to another black man. I'm proud of you, brother,
and I just couldn't be more happy man for the
product that you guys put out. Man. And it couldn't
be at a better timing. Yeah, we need it, man,
We need all man. We needed that, man, and when
we needed a film that speaks to us, you know
(34:53):
what I mean. And that's what you did. Hey, that's
what you did, man, And I hope you feel proud.
I do I do that responsiblities Man's listening elephant. We
didn't know is this going to work. Are people going
to connect to it?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
So everything you're saying, man, it's just it makes me
feel proud that it's actually working.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
And when you think about the film over on and
you think about the messaging and you think about where
you were personally, did it heal you? Oh?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Man, absolutely, I mean, you know, without a doubt it
was a part of the healing processes. And part of
that healing process is that you know, when you go
through things and you're trying to reveild your life, Man, yes,
the fear is there.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
You know, will I ever be able to rebuild? You know,
will will what would it look like?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
And because we don't know right, a lot of times
in the rebuild, you may not be able to see
the picture. And in the absence of knowing what it's
going to look like, there's a lot of fear. There's frustration,
there's anxiety. So for me, you know, even professionally, you know,
going through you know what I had to navigate in
the season before I started making Ruth and Boaz, you know,
I was I was afraid. You know, am I Am
(36:03):
I really going to have a career that's going to continue?
Am I still going to be able to build you know,
what I thought I was building, you know, until things
you know changed in my life. So as Ruth and
bow as the development, you know, process happened, and I mean,
you know, I just came up with this idea March
of last year. We we started prepping August of last year.
(36:23):
We finished the movie in October of last year, and
now the movie's out. So to be able to go
from you know, an idea to execution in less than
a year is something that you know is not done.
But the way that it was able to happen was
for me to acknowledge, here's the pain I'm in, here's
how I'm feeling. Yet I'm still going to access to faith.
(36:44):
I'm still going to have faith that this can happen.
I'm still going to have faith that, you know, this
is a good idea. I'm going to have faith that
we can get this done in record time. I'm going
to have faith that the right actor is going to
show up. I mean have faith that the right director
is going to show up. I'm gonna have faith this
movie's gonna work. And so when we're rebuilding the essence
of what we need to rebuild our life is faith
(37:05):
and faith isn't just an intellectual construct. It actually shows
up in our actions. And that's why it says faith
that works is dead, but faith with works is alive.
So if we continue to have faith, you know what,
I might be hurting today, but I'm still going to
go to therapy. I might be hurting today, but I'm
still going to you know, apply for the job. Might
be hurting today, but I'm still going to commit to
the process of rebuilding. So for me, making those commitments
(37:28):
before anything was rebuilt, before there was even any redemption
on the horizon, making those decisions by faith and then
moving in faith really was a big part of my
healing process. So when you see this felled for me,
you know I watched it. You know I watched multiple
times that even though I made the film, even though
I produced the film, I'm still getting emotional about it.
(37:50):
If I know what this means. Yes, you know that
God has not forgotten about us. God sees us right
where we are when we are, and this process of
finding the right purpose, the right love at the right time,
that to me. You know, I watched the film and
I just get emotional because I know what I was
going through and to be in this moment and to
(38:12):
be able to say, you know, I'm experiencing redemption. I'm
experiencing you know, the rebuild in the most beautiful, powerful way.
It just lets me know that not God is real,
Love winds and Heath.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Works, man, man, oh Man, say that again.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
God is real, Love winds and faith works.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Man. And from all that, you said, what I heard
is when I first met you produced by Faith.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Amen, And that was divine was that was the first
first book. Yeah, first book produced by Faith. Listen, go
get that book because I mean you embody that and
just to see that that is still your foundation, you know,
produced by Faith. When you are looking for the right actors,
you're looking for the right producers and the right team,
(39:03):
it's produced by Faith.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Man.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, And I think you know what people are going
to give from this episode. Man, It's going to be
so life enriching for them. Man, to enrich their life,
to give them the hope, to give them the inspiration,
but then the belief that they need to move forward
and whatever wherever they are in that journey, you know,
(39:26):
whether it's therapy, whether it's navigating the breakup, whether it's
navigating grief, a loss of a loved one, the loss
of a career. I just think, man, this film Beyond
Relationally is going to be able to speak to so
many people where they are in life, because sometimes loss
can really make you feel like, well, maybe I'm not fit.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Right, But what's so important what you just said is
so correct in that go through loss and then the narrative,
internal narrative, maybe I'm not fit. That's the area that
needs to be rewritten. Yes, right, because as we believe
I'm not fit, I'm not worthy. I'm not going to
(40:09):
try again. Then what happens is going back to what
we were talking about earlier, is like, then your losses
went yeah, because you give them more more focused than
you give your future. So it's like, Okay, i might
be hurty today, but I'm not going to let myself
believe that I'm not fit for love. I am healing
(40:30):
from what I went through, but I am going to
stay open to love. I am lovable. I can't wait
to love again. Like God, to rewrite man, all that
inner talk in order for the story to come out
the way you need it in your life.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Man, Listen, I hope you have taken something from this
conversation you've heard Devun talk about. As he just said,
we have to change our inner dialogue. What are you
saying to yourself personally? Again, y'all know here, I love
to be transparent personally As someone who's experienced loss in
(41:09):
a child, someone who's had to navigate the grief of that,
I often have said, well, maybe I'm not fit to
be a father, and not because I don't think that
I have the ability, but because loss had me thinking
that and maybe it's not for me. And what Devon
is saying, it's not that it's not for you, and
(41:30):
it's not that you need a different outcome. Maybe we
need a different outlook. There is Man's Joe. That's man,
and that's what we need. So and so I won't
encourage you go watch Ruth and bow Ass if you
have Netflix, and I know y'all had it because y'all
watched the fight last weekend. So please go out and
(41:50):
support this film. This is an amazing film. Let's blow
the screaming numbers up. Let's support our brother, let's support
our friend, and let this story. And what I love
what you did is you took a biblical story and
you made it for us, and when I say us,
I'm not just talking to just us people of colors.
(42:11):
But he made this film for people who are looking
to be restored, because it's a story that you can
find restoration and you can be you know, redeemed, you know,
And that's what I love about. I've always been a
fan of your work because I've always admired your ability
to balance all the many different things, you know, you
(42:32):
and Tyler and Bishop Jason, especially being able to navigate
faith based and being able to work in the marketplace
and all those different things. Because when I you know,
being a sun of the past, the first thing I said, Brother,
I don't want to be in a poor pit, right,
but what you did is made what you do in
a fimbroom your poor pit there is because you're gonna
have to be behind Napoleon to preach. You're preaching through storytelling.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
And it's a blessing to be able to want to
have the opportunity. But you know too, to have made
that commitment, you know. I mean, yes, we're here, right,
but you know, I started this journey around I was
eighteen years old.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Yeah, you know what it's been. So it's been a
long time.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Of just showing up, learning the craft how to tell
stories so that when I'm telling a story, when I'm
delivering a message, you know, in the form of a film,
right that, Yes, that is, you know there is. That's
like one of the biggest pulpits in Lias. Yes, yet
it's still when anybody watches it, they can get the message,
but they also can enjoy the movie.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Sometimes it's like if the movie is about a message,
it doesn't resonate because people are connected to the story.
So it's like, well, message is going to work if
it's connected to a story that's well developed in it.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yes, you know, man, beautifully, beautifully, beautifully done. Brother. As
we close out, I always ask every guest one question,
and that question is what is healing for you?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
You know, healing for me is first acknowledging the herd.
It's good, right because you know, it's like how can you?
Speaker 1 (44:02):
How can I?
Speaker 2 (44:02):
How can we heal from something that we don't acknowledge?
So healing is like, Okay, I'm gonna acknowledge the herd,
and then I am going to by fail believe that
what's hurting me today one day will not hurt me tomorrow.
And I will do the work required for that statement
(44:25):
to become a reality. And that work may be therapy
and maybe writing, and maybe journally. It may be you know,
going to church, praying, reading the word. I mean, there's
so many things that you know, I personally have used
in my healing journey, but it starts with that. That's
what healing is to me. Healing fundamentally is being whole.
(44:46):
Doesn't mean you don't have scars.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
Yeah I got scars.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, but I can look at the scar and say, wow,
that's no longer a wont.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Mm hmm, there's no longer a won't listen. He's a
preacher to y'all, So I mean, the brother is multi factors.
So so y'all look at it like, so don't don't
don't be alarmed that he's dropping these gyms, the brothers annoying. Man,
Thank you, thank you, thank you many appreciate This was
amazing man. You just helped me man on so many levels. Man,
(45:16):
thank you, and thank you for sharing space with the
Just Hill audience. Man, they love these conversations, and I
think more importantly, they're gonna love the body of work
that you just produced and the message behind it. Man,
so thank you brother. You listen, you have just heard
the amazing the Von Franklin film, producer of Ruth and
(45:37):
bow Ass. Please go out and support this film. It's
on Netflix September twenty six. September twenty six is also
my father's birthday, so so yeah, so I'm excited to
see this film and will tell my pops because he
don't watch TV, but he does watch Netflix. They all
go celebrated. Bring up yeah, oh oh yeah, tell me
(46:00):
watch this film. Contigue your healing journey. Continue building community
because without community, it is challenging to heal, and you
can't heal along and remember until next time, healing is
a journey and wholeness is the destination. Just Heal with
Doctor J, a production of the Black Effect podcast Network.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
(46:25):
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. And you
can follow me at King J. Barnett on Instagram and
x and follow us on YouTube. Just Heal, Doctor J.
Welcome to jess Here with Doctor J, a production of
the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
Just Here with Doctor J. And I am your host,
Doctor J. Barnett. Listener, some of y'all been kind of
eavesdropping on the episodes, but I want to encourage you
to go ahead and subscribe to our YouTube link Just
Hell Doctor J. You can listen audibly on Spotify, the
(00:22):
Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeart Podcast Network as well.
We are doing some amazing things over here in the
healing community where we are bringing it enlightenment. We're bringing
conversation that is really provoking change those that are on
the healing journey. And more importantly, we want to continue
to support you wherever you are in your mental health.
(00:44):
And remember, your mental health will determine the quality of
your life. All right. So today I am excited to
have a brother of mine. Listen. I met this brother
many years ago and we were talking about it on
a live that we did for his one man show.
But I'm excited to have him to share his new film,
(01:04):
Ruth and Boass. This film, I believe I had the
opportunity to watch it. I believe for you ladies, it's
gonna provide a lot of hope. So Devon had you
all in mind. But anyway, without further ado, I want
to welcome my brother, my brother and friend, filmmaker Devon Franklin.
How are you doing, brother, kid said the lady. Come
in listen, brothers, I will say, Brothers, if you have
(01:29):
this type of journey, I probably I will see you
at the altar. Okay. I felt incouraged. Okay, that's good.
I felt in courage on my single journey. Man, I said, listen,
I know I'm a bow ass man. I know I
got some got some things with me man that I
would would be open to share with my roof So Man,
thank you brother for joining the healing community, Man Jesse.
(01:52):
Here with doctor j Man. This platform and this this
space is for conversations that provide healing and conversation that
allow people to share their journey. And I think what
you did with this film is so much healing man
all over this film.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Man.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So my first question to you is is I ask
every guest, because my background is a therapist, how are
you feeling, just in this moment now? Feeling good? You
know what I mean? Feeling good? Man? You look good man. Yeah,
I could tell. Man, I got to ask you, what
is your secret? Oh? Man? You know what?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
The secret honestly is embracing the moment, right, like really
just saying okay, this is where I am, and being
okay with it, you know that inner you know, being
settled on the inside, like that is the thing that
really helps me, you know, feel better. Right, It's like, okay,
you know, I'm dealing with different things and different challenges
(02:52):
at work and you know, productions and stuff, and it's like.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Okay, like it's all right, this is where we are,
how we're going to move forward.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
But finding being centered is what really helps me kind
of keep a baseline, not doesn't mean that every moment
is like I'm feeling great line right, the baseline of like, okay,
this is happening, all right, So all right, it's happening.
Let me figure out what my response is to it.
And that just keeps me grounded. And then also having
the right woman in my life. I mean, you know,
certainly you know my wife, I mean, my goodness, I
(03:18):
mean we talk about your art, right, it just is like,
no matter what I'm dealing with, knowing I have heard, man,
I'm good So what.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I hear two things. What I hear you saying, brother is,
for one, always be where your feet are planted. Amen. Yeah,
I think we don't realize how much that can minimize anxiety,
because anxiety is being here and wanting to be there
there you go, you know, And I love that being
where your feet are planted, and then just embracing the moment.
And then partnership and for a lot of brothers that
(03:48):
I have a lot of men that follow my work,
you know, my background being a pro athlete, and men
are really interested on what does life look like with
the right partner and as you just so you know,
talk about you know, having your wife and having that
how important is that man, particularly in the space that
(04:09):
you're in as a creative Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Man, listen, I find it important, you know, having the
right partner. And then I think as a man. You know,
a lot of times we're conditioned to believe that, oh well,
you know, settling down, you know is a problem. You know,
we're conditioned to be like to think that the more
the better, But in my experience, you know, the more
the chaos. Okay, you know, it's like and then so
(04:38):
what happens is when you buy into that philosophy as
a man, Okay, well, the more women I have, you know,
the better off I'll be.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
The No, we just become better chaos managers. You know
that's good. Brothers. Listen, y'all brothers out here, y'all hopping
on these poly trains. Man, y'all better hit his brothers.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
So so for me, you know, as a man, you know,
finding the right partner, you what happens is on the inside,
there's that piece because I'm committing my life to her
and she's dimitting her life to me, and we create
space and keep space for one another in that.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So because of that, there's peace, right and having that
right partner who you know has your bad who you
can talk to, who you can talk with, who respects
you and you respect them. For us as men, I
believe that it is a game changer because it is
very easy on some level in terms of emotionally, it's
very easy to manage more more than one, right, Yeah,
(05:34):
because emotionally you don't have to You don't ever have.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
To do the work, No you don't. But when you're
with one, you got to dig in and do the work.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
And when you're with the right partner, that work is worthwhile.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Man, brother, that's a book. That's a book is never
that is a book, man, because I think devine, you know,
and for men like us right that we've achieved and
you see a lot of men, particular for black brothers,
that when we achieve success, and if you came from nothing,
(06:06):
there is this notion that I have to get it
all and getting there and getting it all is that
I got to have more. And what I'm hearing from
you is making that decision to choose. It's not only
settling your life, but it's also allowing you to settle
into the piece of what a covenant relationship would do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Absolutely, And I think it settles you into peace and
it also settles you into purpose there. I mean, listen,
you know how it is when you're dating, okay and
you're trying to you know, figure it out. What happens
is you spend a lot of time, energy, money, you know,
going with this one or doing that with that one,
and this and that and and that. Think about all
(06:48):
the energy and tells money spit to managing. That's why
I'm talking about it's as management. It's exhausting and think
about if if you had all of that time and
energy and money not only to pour into one person,
but also poor into your purpose a think about the progress,
think about the impact. And so it's it's very important.
Every man has to choose their.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Own path, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
But for me, you know, going through my season of
single and you know, really trying to figure it out,
you know, being able to you know, have received you know,
my wife, and to be able to then start to
build you know, a life with her, it has been
you know, a phenomenal game changing for man.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
That's so amazing. Brother, my, my, my. As you were talking,
my thought is what stands out to you? You know,
as you came out of the singleness, and then you said, man,
I want to choose her. What was the thing if
you can give me like two things that stood out
to you. Because brothers you know that are married, I'm
always asking them what was it about her? Yeah? You know,
(07:45):
because when we choose, well, women don't realize man, when
we choose, we're choosing according to something about you that
have pulled our heart because you may you know, I
have to tell these you know a lot of single ladies.
You may get his body and that's what y'all doing.
But when you grab a man's heart, yeah, and you
shift that heart to where he said, I'm going to
(08:08):
choose you, you you've done a number on them. So
what was it about your wife, man that made you
sens man?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
It's her, you know, it was really her nurturing spirit,
and it's just it's it's a hard thing to describe,
but you know, she is such a loving, you know person.
And you know from the time that I was young,
the middle chimeter three boys, and my finally died of
a heart attack when he was thirty six, and so
(08:38):
my mother, you know, raised us, you know, pretty much
on her on her own, with the help of my
grandmother and my grandmother's seven sisters. But growing up, you know,
we were in survival mode a lot of the time, right,
you know, getting makes your food was on the table,
and clothes on her back, get to school and and
all those things, and keep a roof over you know,
our heads up. That's how we were. We were, And
so you know, a part of me, you know, didn't
(09:00):
necessarily feel nurtured. And so when I met Maria, you know,
her disposition to me was, you know, I see that
inner child in you. You know, I want to hug
that bah.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Come on, come on, brother, come on, come on brother.
You're talking about talk. We get that's what she says
to me.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I want to, I want to I see him and
I want to hold You'll let him know he's okay.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
So man, wait when wait? She talking like that? I'm like,
all right, we're good. Let's say, will you know? Will
you marry me?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
You know?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
It was like all right, let's go because I ain't
had that, you know what I mean? Man?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
That was that really spoke to me on a deep level.
And then what that does is it produces a piece yes,
that I'm with someone that is not about performing or
it's about how much I got or what I know.
It's about like, oh no, this person sees me and
loves me and wants to care for me on on
(09:55):
the deepest level. And and then what happens as men
when we find that, then it's like, yo, I'll give
you the world like whatever you need it like, don't
even think about.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Before you even speak.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It's done because you're giving me what I need and
I can't find that in anybody else.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Y'all better pick up these gems. Is his brothers. Listen
what I love about what you shared? CJ, my producer.
We talk about relationships all the time, and one of
the things that I say, Bro, I don't know how
many women can really identify the little boy in the
(10:31):
man that needs to be hugged, because when you're raised
on survival like you were, I was raised on survival.
I'm the oldest of three, and when you're raised on survival,
on surviving, you don't have an understanding of how to
receive because everything is about how do I make it
through this day? And when you think about making it
(10:52):
through this day, you think about, Okay, how do I
show up? And when you're showing up, it's often performing,
so I'm usually looking for us, and if that stops,
I'm like, well, I don't know what was happening. Because
I've been taught and even shape socially environmental, that if
(11:14):
you don't do anything, no one is going to clap
for you. So we now begin to think that everything
about our existence has to be about receiving the praise
and receiving the applause. And what I'm hearing from you
is that you saw an audience that said I'll clap
(11:35):
if you do nothing.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yes, exactly, one thousand percent. I'm clapping just because of
who you were, just because of.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Who you are period. In fact, the little boy don't
have to you remember these little boys especially you have
family over. We all wanted to go into the living
room and put on the show. Yep, exactly get those
little dollars, you know. And what she's saying is, I
just want the little boy to be held exactly, and
(12:03):
that is not did that feel man for you? When
your little boy was acknowledged? What did that do for
the man? And it provided deep healing.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
You know, because I you know, to your point, like
you know I talk about in the Be True you
Know book, I talk about how I was an achievement addict, right,
and that achievement was to you know, there to you know,
try to really fill that hole in my soul. And
so to your point, like wanting the praise, wanting the accolades,
and then if those things weren't there, if the applause
weren't there, at times, I wouldn't feel, you know, good
(12:37):
about myself. And so getting to the place where I
have a partner who says, you know, I know what
you do in the world, and all that's great, that's wonderful,
and I'm proud of you, but you need to know
that I accept you for you, not for what you do.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And so that just it.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Created a piece, It created a healing, you know, so
much so that like as as men, you know, prior
to I think finding the right partner and making the
commitment to that partner, we don't realize how much turmoil
our souls are in man talk about it as well.
It's almost like there's there's an inner storm that we
(13:14):
just get so used to that innertension, that inner frustration,
that inner like you know, because here's the thing, It's like,
no matter how you navigate, you know, single list, especially
if you're you're dating, you know, it takes time and
energy and effort. And then you you know, you wonder,
okay am I being my true self? And and and
why am I engaging with these different women in this
(13:35):
different way? So on the inside there's a turmoil, there's
an unsettling in the spirit. And so for me, when
I found Maria, my spirit got selled and there was
a peace that then I can I can think, I
can work, I can create from a place of peace.
And that is It's something that is deeply hard to
even articulate, but when you find it, it's what life
(13:58):
is about. And the other thing I would say is
that you know, as men, you know, you know Scripture says,
you know, husbands and Efesians five, husbands, love your wives,
as Christ loved the church, and then the next command
after that is he loved the church, and then he
gave everything for the church. So the idea that we
as men, our dispositions should be to give, you know,
and and when we are with the right one, they
(14:21):
don't take from us, they receive from us, and then
they recitricate to us. That's how you know you're with
your right one, because there are a lot of people
you know that may want to take what you have
to give. That just means I'm not your person, right
but don't But as men, you know, for me, you know,
with Maria like it enhanced the She enhanced the giver
in me. You know, that giver was like, oh, I
(14:44):
mean what gud you know, just hey, that's what I'm
and that's what I'm here to do, right And in
that dynamic of husband and wife.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
It's just it. For me, it has been a game changer,
you know.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
And before we got together, like I wasn't necessarily looking,
you know, for marriage, I was open to of love.
And that's another thing. As men, we gotta stay.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Open to it because because that that that love, of
that deep love of self, receiving that and having that
in our life, it's what matters the most.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Man. I watched the movie and as you're talking, I
see you a lot in Ruth deep Yeah, uh huh,
I could see that. Yeah, I see I see a
lot of you in Ruth. And of course we would say, oh,
we see ourselves as bow Ass. But when you think
(15:38):
about not having to do anything and bow Ass just
wanting to love her for her. And before you asked it,
what what was your inspiration behind modernizing the story, Billy
Cleave to bring it?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, you know, the inspiration was just what I was
going through personally. If I was in a season of
being single and I was doing a sermon series on
what it means to be single, and I think I
was in the second and third installment of that series,
and I was studying the Book of Ruth. And as
I was studying the Book of Ruth, it was right
around the same time that I was trying to figure out, like, Okay,
(16:17):
what's the movie, what's the next movie I'm going to make?
And as I was studying the Book of Ruth, I
was like, wow, this, First of all, it is really
powerful because she doesn't go looking for love at all,
you know, as a matter of fact, she's kind of
resigned that love's never going to happen for her, and
she's committed to serving Naomi and to make sure that Naomi,
(16:37):
you know, the kind of motherlike figure in the story,
is okay. So as a reward for her service and commitment,
God blesses her with the love. And I thought, wow,
there's just so many themes here when you read it,
it's just he's like a movie. And so I said, wow, Wes,
and I just said is this guy said, ever been
a movie version of this story? And I said, there's
never been a modern one.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
No.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I thought, wow, what an opportunity to do it modern
version of this story, to do it with people of color,
to deal with us, to bring it to like like
it's never been brought to light before. And as I was,
you know, working on the script with my two writers,
Corey Tynan and Mike Elliott, we just were developing it
and working on it. And the crazy part is as
we were developing it, you know, my love story with
(17:19):
Maria was developing, So it just was like developed. Working
on this movie was healing for me. Yeah, And I said, Okay,
I think if it's healing for me, you know, not
that I'm going to be end all be all as
a litmus test, but I feel like if this story
can move me, then it can move others. And I
think any great movie, it's always going to come from
someone involved in the creation of that film that has
a personal connection to it, absolutely, And so for this
(17:41):
the personal connection was you know, so often when we
go through heartbreak, or we go through heartache, or you
go through the tragedy of that Ruth's experience in the film,
you tend to say, hey, you know what, maybe God's
best is not available to me. Yeah, And so in
this movie, you know, when you see that wait, all
you have to do is stay cany your heart open,
keep following that, you know that voice of God, keep
(18:04):
pursuing service, and then the things that we need show up.
And if love is one of those needs, then we
can be guaranteed it will show up. So for me,
It was really healing to be able to produce this
film and bring this film to life for those reasons.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Man, And when I tell you, you did a phenomenal job,
the characters, everyone. It was beautifully shot, It was beautifully written,
I mean the acting, I mean everything. Because I took
off I was looking for my clinical lens, but then
I put on my thesbian lens and all of this.
And I'm gonna tell you what stood out to me,
what I loved about it is you showed grief in
(18:40):
real time. Yeah. People of color don't grieve well, and
I don't think we often realized that whether you have
lost love, you have lost a loved one, you've lost
a job, when you have to deal with grief. And
one of my favorite quotes in the movie is that
that grief comes like an unexpected storm. Yes see it,
(19:05):
you never see it coming. And I often have to
tell clients is that grief is also the price we
pay for lovemen. Yeah, And what I loved about bringing
that because when when when when we don't agree well,
we continue to sort of lament and load. And what
(19:27):
happened is you'll find yourself not really dealing with it
or sitting with it. And what I loved about it
is that even though Naomi had this difficult time of
dealing with this grief, Ruth was allowing her to really
sit in it and not run from it while she's
running from something.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
In that But that's so that's so ourful, level was
the saying, because so often we don't take enough time
to acknowledge the feelings we have around whatever losses we endured.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
In life, especially believers.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Absolutely, it's like, oh, you know, you know, God is
good all the time, all the time.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
God is good.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
That's true. Those are true statements. And and yeah, it's
okay to acknowledge, hey I just got ran over. Come
on me, bro, It's okay to just acknowledge, Hey, I'm
I'm hurting.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
You know. It's like like you're not going to.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Go into the hospital and someone you know has just
gone through a horrific accident and tell them to get up.
That would be insensitive, except that would be unloved. But
that's what we do to ourselves. Yes, you know, it's like, no,
take the time, you got it. You gotta heal because
if we don't take the time to grieve, which is
part of the healing process, yes, that whatever we're not healing,
it's gonna come out in ways that will be detrimental
(20:42):
and potentially destriving.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Because just because you hide it doesn't mean it's not there. Yes, right,
that's right, absolutely, And I love how you know, the
film also took Naomi back to the place that she
really despise. And sometimes God will take you back to
(21:04):
places that you resent just to reveal who you are.
You know what I mean, man, bro when I tell you,
because I was looking at the film from so many
different lens, and you know, I've watched it three times already,
and I was looking from it from so many and
I got something every single time, because when I have
work with individuals who are going through grief counseling, man,
(21:26):
it's difficult because if you lost a loved one, the anger,
just the pain of them not returning. And there's a
part where she's talking about you know that not coming back.
But I think what the film is going to do
de Vaughn is that may be true. But what if
(21:48):
what you lost was is what was what was needed
for you to gain? And I know that's difficult to hear. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
it is.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
It is.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
And yet I think that, you know, when you're talking
about life and you're talking about loss, having that perspective
is actually a healing perspective because if I don't have
that perspective, if I don't believe the losses that I've
endured are necessary for the gains that are yet to come,
then what happens is I continue to mourn, and there
(22:23):
it is is look at life in the rear view
and say, oh, my goodness, if I hadn't lost whatever
that may have been, then I wouldn't be here or
then my life wouldn't be this. And don't get me wrong,
we have to acknowledge the loss. We have to grieve
the loss. Yet we also for life, have to move
on from the loss and we have to open up
our heart to whatever is yet to come. And so
(22:45):
what you're saying is right, But it's a very you know, sophisticated,
emotionally mature way to look at life that anything that
I had lost is actually setting me up for what
I have yet to gain, and that if I keep
that mindset, she helps me get through things. Because if
I don't have that mindset, then what's the point of living,
what's the point.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Of being here?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
If I don't believe that everything I've gone through is
serves a purpose, right, yeah, for my good Yes, then
it's going.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
To be very hard for me to get up in
the morning. So that perspective, I think is phenomenal. Man,
It's going to be very, very, very hard. And also,
was it your intention in the film that Boaz loss
was also acknowledged? Yes? Absolutely, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
I mean one when you look at you know, what
happened with his father and his parents, and then there's
a moment in the movie you know, I won't ruin it,
you know where he experiences you know, loss, and again,
like the thing about the right woman in your life,
come on, is that way you go through loss? You
have that support system. Did what did she do in
(23:57):
that moment?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
She helped them?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yes, And then in the moment in the aftermath, she
was the one in the midst of loss that had
an optimistic point of view to say, hey, wait a minute,
maybe all is not lost, Maybe this is actually gay.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
So you need to you need to Hey, babe, I
tried this and got to watch the movie. Try go
watch the film. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And because of her encouragement, because of her seeing his
dream and saying no, no, no, no, no, you're looking
at this wrong. Your dream is not denied, it's not deferred.
Your dream is right. Now try it and then come
to find out that what he was working on became
even better him in what looked like loss. So the
(24:40):
fire didn't destroy, it actually revealed and that would have
never been the case if he didn't have the right
woman in his life.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yes, man, bro, let me take you Listen. I was
in the jail man doing cardio watching the film, and
I just felt encouraged, Like if one word that I
can say from that that just stood out, I felt encouraged.
And we were talking about it, you know, the team,
(25:09):
and I said, man, I really believe this film is
going to provide a lot of hope. Yeah. Uh, there's there.
There there there. There is a state of hopelessness that
I feel that a lot of individuals are in. Yep,
you know, not just from our political climate, not just
from the economic but I just think just from life.
(25:29):
Life is life right now, there are a lot of people.
What do you wanting individuals to take away from this film?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, I mean I want exactly what you said, hope,
Hope in the face of loss, Hope in the face
of heartbreak, you know, hope in the.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Face of grief.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Everybody goes through challenges, everyone goes through loss, and you know,
one of the things with when we don't have hope,
what happens our heart closes and hope deferred.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
That makes us the heart it right exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
And so for me, I want people to watch this
movie and have that hope to say, Okay, you know
what I can get through what I'm going through. I
can't open my heart to love. I can make myself
a committee of one to commit to service and participating
in the greater good of my family and my community
and my job and my workplace.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Like I can.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Those are things that I can do if it's so
often what happens also is that when we don't make
those commitments, we're like, well, love hasn't found me. And
I say, well, well, if you look for love, then
that means you're enhancing the absence of it. Mm, because wow,
think about it, you don't if you're looking for your keys.
Most time we don't look for our keys and peace, no,
(26:40):
no where is it.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I'll tearing up everything, tearing up everything you know, versus like,
you know what, instead of looking for love, I'm ready
to receive it, and that and that changes your whole posture.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I'm ready to receive it. So when those keys.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Show up, I trust that they're going to find me
at the right time. And until then, I'm going to
continue to live my life. I'm gonna be the love
I want to see. I'm gonna be of service, I'm
gonna have a joyful spirit, and then I'm gonna let
love come into my life when it's ready. That is
a different position in posture that I think will produce
more hope and a better life than saying I'm looking
(27:14):
for love and I haven't found it. So my hope
is that people will get that from the movie, Ruth
was not looking for love, Boaz was not looking for love. However,
when love showed up, they were ready to identify it,
they were ready to receive it. They were ready to
work through it in order to find the common ground
between each other.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Oh man, that's so good, brother, man, Wow, you got
you just gave me something. I won't be chelling all
the rest of the day. Man. Looking forward is also
enhancing the absence of it, exactly exactly, so I don't
I don't tell anybody. I tell nobody, don't look for love,
just be ready to receive it. Man, brothers stopped looking,
(27:52):
got their man DMS, let it find And I didn't
say it. That's what that's That's what my brother said.
And there's a day. Here's a nuancer.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Right, you could be in that man's DMS with the
receiving spirit and not a looking one.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Got your mindset that we have card terror moments over here,
Jesse here bro, and that is a card terror moment
right there, My friends, listen, y'all listen.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
He's an expert in this moment. So y'all need to listen. Man,
when you well, the actors, yes, Bro, Gosh Man Tyler
phenomenal man, Yes, I mean just phenomenal, uh surreal, Yes,
phenomenis And of course Felicia Rashad, I mean childhood legend,
(28:43):
you know, I mean just I mean everyone, man, how
was it you know and what was the what space
were you in when you were choosing how to fit
into the character?
Speaker 3 (28:57):
You know?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
For me, you know, I got my start, you know,
working as an intern for Will Smith and then I
was an executive at Sony Pictures for almost ten years
and work with him on everything from Suit Happening at
seven Pounds, Hancock After Earth, the Karate Kid Remade. And
so what I learned from him is, you know, always
commit to the process that goes for life. But also
(29:19):
in terms of filmmaking, commit to the process because sometimes
we want a film to be a certain thing, but
the process has taken us a different direction. So when
it comes to casting, I applied that, Okay, I'm committing
to the process that I don't know who the right Boaz,
Ruth and Naomi should be. I don't know, So let
me commit to the process of casting with our casting
(29:40):
director Lee Daniels Butler, our director of the film, Alana Brown.
Let's all you know, Tyler Perry was, you know, my
producing partner on it. Let's all you know, come together
and commit to a process that will reveal who was
supposed to play these parts. So we started with a
you know, casting search for Ruth and Boaz. You know,
we read audit probably hundreds of guys, hundreds of women.
(30:03):
And I had made a show with Sorea called Kingdom
Business for BT and I noticed that Sorea had not
come in yet for the audition, and I remember reaching
out to her. I'm like Hey, look you got it.
I want you to come in for this.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I think this could be great.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
And I learned that she had some hesitancy because she
just has always played like for an empire. And even
in our show Kingdom Business that I did with VT,
she plays a singer, and so she didn't want to
sing on film again, and I just said, I know,
but you trust me on this one. So she came
in and she auditioned and I was like, okay, see
everybody agreed, that looks like Ruth to me. So then
(30:40):
we were doing some chemistry reads with a few other
actors for the Boaz part with Sorea, and at the
eleventh hour, Tyler Leplie sent in a self table audition
and we all watched it and said, that looks a
little bit like Boaz to me. Then we did a
chemistry read with the two of them and it was
it was clear, Yeah, they were Ruth in Boaz Man.
That process got us to.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
You know, the result.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
And then with Naomi, when we were trying to figure
out who would play that, it was like, wait a minute,
you know, Felicia Rashad is you know she is she
represents that she's quintesdential Naomi. Yeah, and so we sent
her the script and she read it and she said,
I'm in. You know, we did her deal and that
was it. So it was just really committing to the
process and really seeing and that these were the ones
(31:24):
that were rising to the surface and they were just
perfect for the parks.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
And what I loved about it is that the individuals
that you picked. Man. As I was watching the film, bro,
it was like reading the Bible. Wow. Indeed, it was
like that, you know, I mean, you know Tyler, I
mean because you you would you know, his stature, like
you would kind of envision this is what a boass
(31:49):
looked like working in the field. And yes, and and Srea,
I mean it, Bro, it was just and then too,
you know, Felicia Vishad is just amazing. Man, the emotion
that she or you know, when you're dealing with loss
and I'm looking at all it, I'm just like, man,
this is I'm like, man, this and I'm watching the
film and I'm gonna say this, Brothers, I cried, listen.
(32:14):
Oh you got me, brother, you got it, You've gotten Listen, Listen.
I just put on a helmet for a living and
you know, and would dare not cry? You know you
may have cried with you lost, but you better not say. Man,
I was watching this move you know, brother Lati in
my man, Bro, I watched it and I just couldn't
(32:35):
help but think about what the story represented from the
biblical terms into what is representing from a cinematic view. Redemption.
Yeah right, you know what I mean? Redemption, dude, And
you think about right that boas and rules were connected
(32:57):
to Jesus lineage. Yeah, I know, he's you know it's
and man, bro, let's I'll tell you when I've watched this,
the similism with the why I see, I think my
brain is so so layered, man, the symbolic and people
(33:18):
if they watch that and just really watch it, because
you got to watch it and really watch it closely. Man,
Just so many messages in that man. You guys man,
phenomenal job. Brother, Like, phenomenal job. Man like love it.
I'm I'm happy you made that film because I think
devon oftentimes when we're reading a Bible, people don't see
(33:41):
themselves in the characters. You're right, and you made us
see ourselves in these characters. Wow. Man, I'm hoping that
you take more stories from the Bible and modernize it
because sometimes, Man, the films become the Bible that we read.
(34:03):
Absolutely one thousand percent.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I mean there are some people that will never open
the Bible, that will never go into to church, but
they will turn on Netflix. You know, Netflix has over
three hundred million subscribers. Netflix is in over one hundred
and ninety countries, and so to be able to take
a movie like this, with a message like this and
put it on the world's most powerful streaming service, the
impact is that we can't even begin to quantify. So
(34:28):
you are one thousand percent correct.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Man. I hope you feel proud brother, as a black
man to another black man. I'm proud of you, brother,
and I just couldn't be more happy man for the
product that you guys put out. Man. And it couldn't
be at a better timing. Yeah, we need it, man,
We need all man. We needed that, man, and when
we needed a film that speaks to us, you know
(34:53):
what I mean. And that's what you did. Hey, that's
what you did, man, And I hope you feel proud.
I do I do that responsiblities Man's listening elephant. We
didn't know is this going to work. Are people going
to connect to it?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
So everything you're saying, man, it's just it makes me
feel proud that it's actually working.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
And when you think about the film over on and
you think about the messaging and you think about where
you were personally, did it heal you? Oh?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Man, absolutely, I mean, you know, without a doubt it
was a part of the healing processes. And part of
that healing process is that you know, when you go
through things and you're trying to reveild your life, Man, yes,
the fear is there.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
You know, will I ever be able to rebuild? You know,
will will what would it look like?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
And because we don't know right, a lot of times
in the rebuild, you may not be able to see
the picture. And in the absence of knowing what it's
going to look like, there's a lot of fear. There's frustration,
there's anxiety. So for me, you know, even professionally, you know,
going through you know what I had to navigate in
the season before I started making Ruth and Boaz, you know,
I was I was afraid. You know, am I Am
(36:03):
I really going to have a career that's going to continue?
Am I still going to be able to build you know,
what I thought I was building, you know, until things
you know changed in my life. So as Ruth and
bow as the development, you know, process happened, and I mean,
you know, I just came up with this idea March
of last year. We we started prepping August of last year.
(36:23):
We finished the movie in October of last year, and
now the movie's out. So to be able to go
from you know, an idea to execution in less than
a year is something that you know is not done.
But the way that it was able to happen was
for me to acknowledge, here's the pain I'm in, here's
how I'm feeling. Yet I'm still going to access to faith.
(36:44):
I'm still going to have faith that this can happen.
I'm still going to have faith that, you know, this
is a good idea. I'm going to have faith that
we can get this done in record time. I'm going
to have faith that the right actor is going to
show up. I mean have faith that the right director
is going to show up. I'm gonna have faith this
movie's gonna work. And so when we're rebuilding the essence
of what we need to rebuild our life is faith
(37:05):
and faith isn't just an intellectual construct. It actually shows
up in our actions. And that's why it says faith
that works is dead, but faith with works is alive.
So if we continue to have faith, you know what,
I might be hurting today, but I'm still going to
go to therapy. I might be hurting today, but I'm
still going to you know, apply for the job. Might
be hurting today, but I'm still going to commit to
the process of rebuilding. So for me, making those commitments
(37:28):
before anything was rebuilt, before there was even any redemption
on the horizon, making those decisions by faith and then
moving in faith really was a big part of my
healing process. So when you see this felled for me,
you know I watched it. You know I watched multiple
times that even though I made the film, even though
I produced the film, I'm still getting emotional about it.
(37:50):
If I know what this means. Yes, you know that
God has not forgotten about us. God sees us right
where we are when we are, and this process of
finding the right purpose, the right love at the right time,
that to me. You know, I watched the film and
I just get emotional because I know what I was
going through and to be in this moment and to
(38:12):
be able to say, you know, I'm experiencing redemption. I'm
experiencing you know, the rebuild in the most beautiful, powerful way.
It just lets me know that not God is real,
Love winds and Heath.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Works, man, man, oh Man, say that again.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
God is real, Love winds and faith works.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Man. And from all that, you said, what I heard
is when I first met you produced by Faith.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Amen, And that was divine was that was the first
first book. Yeah, first book produced by Faith. Listen, go
get that book because I mean you embody that and
just to see that that is still your foundation, you know,
produced by Faith. When you are looking for the right actors,
you're looking for the right producers and the right team,
(39:03):
it's produced by Faith.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Man.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, And I think you know what people are going
to give from this episode. Man, It's going to be
so life enriching for them. Man, to enrich their life,
to give them the hope, to give them the inspiration,
but then the belief that they need to move forward
and whatever wherever they are in that journey, you know,
(39:26):
whether it's therapy, whether it's navigating the breakup, whether it's
navigating grief, a loss of a loved one, the loss
of a career. I just think, man, this film Beyond
Relationally is going to be able to speak to so
many people where they are in life, because sometimes loss
can really make you feel like, well, maybe I'm not fit.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Right, But what's so important what you just said is
so correct in that go through loss and then the narrative,
internal narrative, maybe I'm not fit. That's the area that
needs to be rewritten. Yes, right, because as we believe
I'm not fit, I'm not worthy. I'm not going to
(40:09):
try again. Then what happens is going back to what
we were talking about earlier, is like, then your losses
went yeah, because you give them more more focused than
you give your future. So it's like, Okay, i might
be hurty today, but I'm not going to let myself
believe that I'm not fit for love. I am healing
(40:30):
from what I went through, but I am going to
stay open to love. I am lovable. I can't wait
to love again. Like God, to rewrite man, all that
inner talk in order for the story to come out
the way you need it in your life.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Man, Listen, I hope you have taken something from this
conversation you've heard Devun talk about. As he just said,
we have to change our inner dialogue. What are you
saying to yourself personally? Again, y'all know here, I love
to be transparent personally As someone who's experienced loss in
(41:09):
a child, someone who's had to navigate the grief of that,
I often have said, well, maybe I'm not fit to
be a father, and not because I don't think that
I have the ability, but because loss had me thinking
that and maybe it's not for me. And what Devon
is saying, it's not that it's not for you, and
(41:30):
it's not that you need a different outcome. Maybe we
need a different outlook. There is Man's Joe. That's man,
and that's what we need. So and so I won't
encourage you go watch Ruth and bow Ass if you
have Netflix, and I know y'all had it because y'all
watched the fight last weekend. So please go out and
(41:50):
support this film. This is an amazing film. Let's blow
the screaming numbers up. Let's support our brother, let's support
our friend, and let this story. And what I love
what you did is you took a biblical story and
you made it for us, and when I say us,
I'm not just talking to just us people of colors.
(42:11):
But he made this film for people who are looking
to be restored, because it's a story that you can
find restoration and you can be you know, redeemed, you know,
And that's what I love about. I've always been a
fan of your work because I've always admired your ability
to balance all the many different things, you know, you
(42:32):
and Tyler and Bishop Jason, especially being able to navigate
faith based and being able to work in the marketplace
and all those different things. Because when I you know,
being a sun of the past, the first thing I said, Brother,
I don't want to be in a poor pit, right,
but what you did is made what you do in
a fimbroom your poor pit there is because you're gonna
have to be behind Napoleon to preach. You're preaching through storytelling.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
And it's a blessing to be able to want to
have the opportunity. But you know too, to have made
that commitment, you know. I mean, yes, we're here, right,
but you know, I started this journey around I was
eighteen years old.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Yeah, you know what it's been. So it's been a
long time.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Of just showing up, learning the craft how to tell
stories so that when I'm telling a story, when I'm
delivering a message, you know, in the form of a film,
right that, Yes, that is, you know there is. That's
like one of the biggest pulpits in Lias. Yes, yet
it's still when anybody watches it, they can get the message,
but they also can enjoy the movie.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Sometimes it's like if the movie is about a message,
it doesn't resonate because people are connected to the story.
So it's like, well, message is going to work if
it's connected to a story that's well developed in it.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yes, you know, man, beautifully, beautifully, beautifully done. Brother. As
we close out, I always ask every guest one question,
and that question is what is healing for you?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
You know, healing for me is first acknowledging the herd.
It's good, right because you know, it's like how can you?
Speaker 1 (44:02):
How can I?
Speaker 2 (44:02):
How can we heal from something that we don't acknowledge?
So healing is like, Okay, I'm gonna acknowledge the herd,
and then I am going to by fail believe that
what's hurting me today one day will not hurt me tomorrow.
And I will do the work required for that statement
(44:25):
to become a reality. And that work may be therapy
and maybe writing, and maybe journally. It may be you know,
going to church, praying, reading the word. I mean, there's
so many things that you know, I personally have used
in my healing journey, but it starts with that. That's
what healing is to me. Healing fundamentally is being whole.
(44:46):
Doesn't mean you don't have scars.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
Yeah I got scars.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, but I can look at the scar and say, wow,
that's no longer a wont.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Mm hmm, there's no longer a won't listen. He's a
preacher to y'all, So I mean, the brother is multi factors.
So so y'all look at it like, so don't don't
don't be alarmed that he's dropping these gyms, the brothers annoying. Man,
Thank you, thank you, thank you many appreciate This was
amazing man. You just helped me man on so many levels. Man,
(45:16):
thank you, and thank you for sharing space with the
Just Hill audience. Man, they love these conversations, and I
think more importantly, they're gonna love the body of work
that you just produced and the message behind it. Man,
so thank you brother. You listen, you have just heard
the amazing the Von Franklin film, producer of Ruth and
(45:37):
bow Ass. Please go out and support this film. It's
on Netflix September twenty six. September twenty six is also
my father's birthday, so so yeah, so I'm excited to
see this film and will tell my pops because he
don't watch TV, but he does watch Netflix. They all
go celebrated. Bring up yeah, oh oh yeah, tell me
(46:00):
watch this film. Contigue your healing journey. Continue building community
because without community, it is challenging to heal, and you
can't heal along and remember until next time, healing is
a journey and wholeness is the destination. Just Heal with
Doctor J, a production of the Black Effect podcast Network.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
(46:25):
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. And you
can follow me at King J. Barnett on Instagram and
x and follow us on YouTube. Just Heal, Doctor J.
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