August 15, 2025 • 49 mins
*Originally aired on May 27th
This week on Just Heal with Dr. Jay, Dr. Jay Barnett sits down with David Burrus for a powerful conversation on emotional healing, personal growth, and the evolving dynamics of relationships. Together, they unpack what it means for men to embrace vulnerability, the role of nurturing in connection, and how language can shape our ability to love and be loved. The discussion explores the importance of emotional availability, the impact of unhealed trauma on relationships, and the strength it takes to choose oneself over cycles of toxicity. Through shared insight and lived experience, Dr. J and David highlight the beauty—and necessity—of self-discovery on the path to wholeness.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to jess Hell with Doctor J, a production of
the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
another episode with just Here with Doctor J. And I
am your host, Doctor J. This is a space for healing,
thought provoking conversations, life transforming conversation. And I want to
say this, don't just pop in and listen to these episodes.
(00:23):
Join the healing community by subscribing to jess Hell with
Doctor J. And you can listen to jess Hell with
Doctor J on Black Effect Podcast and iHeart Podcast audibly.
I'm excited about today's episode. We already been going back
and forth. This is my brother from another mother who's
been trying to get me married for the past several years,
(00:45):
and so I'm going to cross my leg like him.
This is none other than the incomparable, amazing good brother,
one of the original good brothers that's been part of
my circle and my journey. He's a relationship strategist and
many of you have seen his post a lot of
his posters going viral, just so many different things that
(01:05):
he share wisdom, just insight on men how to love
their wives, on men how to love themselves. But man, listen,
I don't want to take up any more time. But
I want to welcome my brother David Burris to the
healing circle. Man, to the healing community rather man, because
this community is growing fast. Man. So man, welcome, Man,
(01:26):
Thank you, you'd already been starting. You know what I'm saying.
We ain't gonna go there now? Good? Oh behave I'm
good hey man. So I'm here in La Man. The
weather is beautiful. Man, you are here. And I always
start the episodes of not with how you're doing. But Man,
(01:46):
I know you look good and you look well, but
I want to ask you how you feel it.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I feel I feel healed. That's what I feel. I
feel healed, I feel healthy, I feel focused, I feel
purpose man.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Man, Yeah, that's how I feel. Man. Now, heal, focus
and purpose. Why those three words?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
You can't disconnect them. Healing points to purpose. Purpose requires focus, right,
And so if I'm gonna be focused or purpose full,
I've got to make sure that I'm healed enough. Here's why.
Because when I'm not healed, my healing distracts me from
my purpose. So I've got to make sure that I'm
focused on being healed so that I can fulfill purpose.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeh, I love that man. You listen, you already cooking,
and you know how you and I also again on
the fall man. We go back and forth, and I
love that we're able to share this space, and hopefully
the viewers, both men and women and whoever watching, that
they're able to grasp the wisdom and the insight because
(02:51):
many men, David are struggling with two of the three.
It's what is my purpose, sir? And then a lot
of them are omitting healing, yes, sir, And as you said,
you can't find purpose until you are heal, yes, until
you begin the healing journey. Why do you think so
(03:11):
many men run from healing?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I think a part of it is that when I
am healing, I meet a version of myself that I'm
afraid of. I gotter die to me to meet me
and a part of me. That was my experience when
I had to die to me to meet me, and
that takes so much work, and I think a lot
of men are willing to meet themselves. A part of
(03:36):
meeting yourself means that I have to think thoughts that
scare me, and I don't want to do that, so
I would rather feel safe and comfortable thoughts as opposed
to healing and becoming uncomfortable to get to know.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Me, Yeah, because seeing who you really are requires you
to take off that mask. So you've been portraying to
be yes, sir, and that's something that a lot of man, Yes,
I am not willing to do because to take that
mask off means that you have to face unbearable truths.
And I built my world around my mask. That all
(04:11):
you know is my mask exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So I've got to reintroduce you to me, and I
don't want.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
To do that either. If oh man, I've had to
do this.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
This is why I know what it is. I've lived
my life as a million other people. I was thinking
last night, if I could just speak freely, just for
a moment. Last night, Jay, I was thinking about how
I have deposited myself and so many people looking to
get me back, and they couldn't give me they had,
(04:44):
they couldn't give me back me. And so what happened
was then it became a transactional relationship where they didn't
have to hold up their end of the bargain and
I left more empty. So I had to really get
away from people so I can get with me, so
that I'm not giving all of me the people looking
for me back.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, because when we're looking for us, it actually robs
our experience from having this encounter of the authentic sort
of connection to why we even to get poor in
the first place. Sir. And I love that you said
(05:26):
you disconnected from people so you can get back to you.
And that's really what healing is. It's disconnecting from the definitions,
the belief system, disconnected from sometime the environments, whether that's geographically.
Because I often have told clients that you may have
to leave in order to really heal, yes, sir, because
(05:46):
you can't heal in the same spaces or places that
are continuously to break you. And then you may have
to leave some relationships, sir. And you know we're going
to go here. You've been a relationship, srate. How hard
is it when you have to give that suggestion for
(06:07):
someone to lead what they have been so connected to
what I.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Tell people, it becomes easier for me to tell them
this when I say it this way. You cannot grow out.
You can't grow into without growing out of, right, So
if I'm growing into anything, I'm always growing out of something.
So you got to ask yourself. The question is what
I'm growing into more valuable to me than what I'm
growing out of, And in most cases it is, and
(06:32):
so it becomes easier for me to let that go.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Now.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I still have the grieve the loss of what I love,
but I've got to gain more love for myself moving forward,
and that makes it easier, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I want to want to go back to what you said,
growing into it, you have to grow out of it, yes, sir.
That part is difficult because for most people they don't
want to leave, Yes, sir, familiarity, Sir. I don't want
to grow out of what I've been doing because to
grow out of what I've been doing means I have
to do something new, and new scars meets because new
(07:09):
requires not only just the new practices, but new requires
a new level of functioning. Sir, dude, do you think
that's where most couples and where I'm going with this
is just talking from a relationship, is when I'm seeing
couples say that they grew apart, is that what happened
is that the sort of dynamic that has happening between
(07:32):
them is that one person is not willing to grow
out of themselves in order to grow into something greater.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, and so that's why you have to make sure
that whoever you are, you're with someone who has a
growth mindset, because if we're not growing together, you're growing
on me. Now you're a cancer, and I don't want
anything that that's life is contingent although man, no, no,
(08:01):
it's a fact.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Listen, we go keep all this wraw. This is always
out of there. This man said, if you don't have
a growth mindset, you're growing on me. You're growing on me.
You're cancer, and you are cancer. And your lights is
contingent on my healths which is dangerous. And your light
is contingent on my health and that's dangerous. Yeah, listen, listen,
(08:25):
y'all better stay connected to this Hiller community because if
that man ain't said a word, if you don't have
I want to say this again, if you don't have
a growth mindset growing on me and you are a cancer.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
You can't grow with me if you don't have a
growth mindset, right, and so now I have to now
drag you everywhere go not to make this a Bible step,
but if you look at Genesis, man, and look at
Adam and Eve if you look at Genesis, che I
think it's chapter two, verse twenty one, Verse twenty two.
Bible says that God put animously cut them open, broke
the rib. Something interesting happens after that, The Bible says
(08:59):
of verse twenty two, and he closed that the place
would flesh. Next thing we read is then he made Eve.
So he cut him open, broke the rib, closed the
place with flesh. Then he made Eve. What is God
showing us? God refused to He refused to bring her
until he healed him. God closed Adam first, then he
(09:21):
formed Eve. Here's why had he not done that, she
would have been a contaminant to him, a cancer to him.
Had he not formed Eve, he would have had to
carry her the rest of his life. Right, And so
we all have a process we have to go through
so that we're growing together and you're not become a
cancer to me.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
And as you're talking, man, if God doesn't close him,
now he has an open womb, he.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Is an open womban Now she's his nurse, not as
help me. And you don't want to invite anybody into
your life who has to be your life coach, your nurse,
your doctor. I need a partner.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I told y'all relationships strategies. I listen this.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I've been trying to get you married. You won't listen
to I've been jay, I've been trying. See here's a problem.
You won't listen to. Man, I will listen to you. No,
you won't say don't, No, you won't because.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Here's the thing, man, Because I'll say this, man, when
when we start healing as men, how we see potential candidates,
it's a change. And it's not that I see them
(10:44):
as something is wrong, but I now see the deficiencies
that is possibly a wait for me to carry and
not to say. Because one one female lady said to me, well,
you just looking for somebody to be perfect. I said, no, no, no, no,
I'm not looking for perfection, but there is an element
(11:06):
of healing that I am looking for, as what you
were saying, because too many times, if you have a
growth mindset, you have to be with somebody that has
a growth mindset, not somebody who has a mindset of
positive thinking. What are you doing today? Jack? What is
this about? Exactly? You know what I'm saying. You know
(11:28):
what I'm saying because will take the hot differends We'll
take positive thinking right, because I'm a positive thinker. That's
not a growth mindset.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
You can find positive thinking on Sesame Street exactly. Big
Bird it was a positive thinker, but would probably make
a terrible spouse. You don't want to find your spouse
because they're positive thinking.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Man, I need you to be growing. Man, oh man,
this brother is cooking. He said. Big Bird was a positive.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Hu, great mindset, get you through. But you can't go
to the future with me because I need more than
positive thinking because the truth is that it won't always
feel positive. And all you have is positive thinking and
no growth, we're gonna be stuck.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I need you to be able to grow with me,
which means there's got to be some adversity.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And with that adversity you have to lean into it. Man,
you have to so I want to Man, this is
so good man, this version of a man that you are.
And I'm forty three, and to look at the years
that it's taken me to even get to this place
(12:43):
where I can honestly say now I'm experiencing joy, not happiness.
It's with joy. I've shared the physical weight, I've shared,
the emotional weight. I have shared the trauma and now
in this place because I can underst say that in
previous season that I dated good people in and I
(13:05):
wasn't necessarily bad, but there were parts of me that
was not truly ready to really live where I can
take up space because when you are a man that's
kind of like, well, I don't really want it, because
that's the type of man that I was, especially after
what I went through in twenty eighteen with which was
a tumultulous relationship. I didn't even know what it was
(13:27):
to be with a narcissistic or a narcissist a woman
I had no until and that thing man Dane there
took me out. But what I realized is that even
as I began to heal, there was parts of me
that was afraid. And I was afraid because it's not
that I was afraid to love. I was just afraid
(13:48):
to love the wrong person again. I was afraid to
let my guard down with someone that would see those
fragmented parts and then start poking at them. Because I
know I'm a person I can see your wounds, and
I'll look for bandages. I'll look for some girls. I
would look for something to sort of protect them and
(14:12):
cover them. And that's the thing that I'm hearing you
say because a growth mindset, you have the understanding that
we're not going to always have these moments where I
look at you and I said, man, I like you today.
There would be moments where I may not like you.
But I made a commitment to continue to take this
(14:34):
journey with you. And that was my fear. Man. And
after unpacking, sitting with my therapist again even last year,
and what I realized, and again I'm being transparent, is
I met great women, man, but oftentimes they were not
emotionally available and they get good here That in twenty
(14:55):
five is crazy, and they were all the things. But
understanding what God has placed in me and what He's
placed on me requires my partner to have a level
of emotional capacity, understanding and intellect, and also awareness and descernment.
Because just because I can go out and talk to
(15:17):
the masters and help them, that may be some things
personally or some things in some moments where you have
to desern. And that's not to say that I can't express,
but some things may cause me to just be solid,
and not because I don't have anything to say, but
some things, man, will just knock the breath out of you. Man, Sir.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I found out man that sometimes God will send a
man a wife because she has language for what he feels. Right,
And I didn't that's what I even felt until here's
the thing, Jay, I didn't know what I felt to
my wife was complaining to me about me. She gave
me language for how I feel too. She will say
things like I feel like that too, I feel that too.
(15:59):
So sometimes it's men and we need to really be
honest and say I don't have language, but she does,
so let me help, let me, let her help me.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Man. And you know, I love what you represent, brother
in and what you say for and what you model,
because what you just said. I was talking to a
colleague of minds and she says, Jay, what is it
that you truly desire for a partner? And I said,
just for her to have the language. It's for her
to have the language that is unique to mine, Yes, sir,
(16:33):
experience to my spirit, to my soul, to my mind,
to my calling, Yes, sir. Because as a clinician, I
never take my clinical therapy at I don't go in
there trying to therapiize or clinicalize anybody. I go in
open and sometimes I've had to say to myself that
(16:53):
has often caused me to kind of be a situation
I'm like, m, I probably shouldn't be here, because as
a clinician and even as a relationship strategist, there's a
level of grace that we extend just because we have
seen it all and heard it all and we know.
So I'm often extending grace and spaces, and not to
(17:13):
say that it's not warranted, but in this space, am
I able to take up space where I can say, Man,
I need this, and I'm trying to see if you
have the capacity to give it.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yes, sir, say, there aren't men. There aren't a lot
of men who are as honest as you are and
honest as I am. And what I'm discovering, man, and
this is not to take the conversation left, but take
a left. But we're dealing with the generation of women
who are not ready for the men who they told
to go heal. Right, you told me to go heal,
you told me go get therapy, and now I'm back
(17:48):
and you're not ready to be accountable.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
That's a problem.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
You told me to heal, you said, Nigro, you need therapy.
You need to go get a mentor to be around
some brothers. I did all of that, and now you're
not You're not able to hold yourself accountable. Now we
have a problem because now I've got to drag you
when you once drag me.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Where where do we go from here? Today? Home? The
hell out of here. That's where we go. That's where
we go.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
We we have to We got to go home because
and and what I mean by that is as men,
now it's okay for us to say you're not for me.
There was a time when we couldn't say that because
we were trying to appease you a lot of a
lot of Yeah, now you're not for me. Since I've
done the work, that's a here the conversation though.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Bro, you like you can keep digging in that man,
because I'm I'm, I'm You're you're You're bringing so much clarity, man,
because I've heard women so much. Uh, you know, he
needs to do this, he needs to do that. And
I'm seeing brothers now choosing themselves, yes, sir, yes, And
brothers are like and they're choosing themselves over the physicality.
(19:07):
That's choosing themselves over a moment of pleasure. Brothers are
choosing peace. Brothers are like Man, I'll sit at home
watching Netflix by myself because it brings a center piece.
Because what I think is happening. Men are learning that
they are deserving her quality of lights that they never
told that they could have because we often heard that
(19:27):
happy wife, happy life.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Sir, that's a lie. Yeah that's a lie. Yeah, that's
a lie. So now I'm finding out I have a
right to feel too. When I started feeling, when you
started feeling, Jay, that changed things. When I can feel,
now I can connect to my environment. Now I don't
like the way that makes me feel, and when I
can express that, and now when you get me languaged
(19:51):
for it, now I'm the jerk, right because now I
have feelings. We were talking earlier about a woman having
language for us and what I I would like the
women who are watching this understanding. Sometimes the language is silence, right.
Sometimes the languages you just letting me hurt for a
little bit. I don't want you to fix it. I
(20:12):
don't want you to repair it, just be there. I
was watching Centers the other day, man, and this one
of the scenes in this movie. Not to give it away,
but uh smoke and Annie, his wife, were having a disagreement,
and man, she she just put She just put his
head on her breast, and I saw and that shifted everything.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
It did, she shifted.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
We as men just need a nice, soft place to
land without being judged, without being criticized. I just want
to be able to put my head in your breast.
Not for anything sexual, here's the thing, but because when
I was when I was an infant, started walking, my
mother clap for me. And then when I started riding
(20:54):
my bike without without any help, she clapped for me.
Then I got my first touchdown, she clapped. I got
first job, she clapped, bought my first house, she clapped,
and then she turned me over to you, and you're silent.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I'm used to the most important woman in my life
celebrating me, and I don't know how to tell you
that without you telling me. I want to be coddled.
I want to be coddled. I want to be nurtured.
And there's something in me I can't get out until
you put my head on your breast.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Brother. This this, this, this is this is given life.
And from the sound of the room and the size,
it is given these brothers, the brother's life, because this
is the expansive dialogue that is needed to also provide
understanding to what we think, yes sir, and what we're
(21:44):
not able to articulate. And so you're doing so poignantly
and so beautifully uh and intellectually well. And I love
how you are just really taking the time to really
shape it for men, yes, sir, to have this level
understanding and this level of awareness and this level of consciousness, sis, sir.
(22:06):
Because it requires a state of consciousness, sir, to not
just understand that you have feelings and you're able to feel,
but even just a consciousness that were you in a
space that you cannot express that and you are not
able to share what you feel, that's a prison. It's
(22:27):
a prison, man, it's a personal prison. When I don't
have language for what I feel, I'm trapped in my feelings.
And then I got the nerve to hold my tears back.
So now I'm my worst enemy because I won't let
me cry. What do you do when it's you that
won't let you be you? What do you do when
you won't let you cry?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
There's nobody else stopping you but you? And fellas we
got to do better, right, We have to do better.
We have to learn how to get this stuff out
because you're killing yourself trying to be Superman and you
forgot he was also Clark KT. Yeah, also Clark Kit.
You gotta take the cape off game.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
As I say that, cake is choking the life. It's
choking the life out. Man. Yep, man, this is this
is so good. Man. I'm just sitting here just processing
what kind of watches that? Real quick? I know, man,
but that's like that. Man, this is a good brother
of Mine's gays to me about twelve years ago. I like, yeah,
(23:27):
thank you man, about twelve years ago, me too. Yeah,
it'll fit you brother. You know, man, maybe I'm blessing
what you was about to say. Maybe maybe I bless you,
bless me. I'm lost you bless you. Yeah, man, I'm
really soaking his in man, because and and you and
I as we spoken, man, I desire a partner, yes,
(23:50):
but I don't want to be a therapist. Yes, I
don't want to be a coach. I don't want to
be a father. I just want to be me, yes, sir,
And I'm being transparent now. The last relationship I had
that was one of the things that I said, I
just want to be man. I don't want to be
doctor j I just want to be And I told her,
(24:15):
I said, listen, I said, I want to paint this
picture for you, and I want to give you some
contexts and as we will saying therapy, I want to
contextualize this in a way so you have the understanding
of what it is that I'm feeling. I said, do
(24:37):
you know what it's like to go out here and
fix the lives of men while I come back and
I have no clue on how to unravel the life
that I'm in. I told her. I said, I have
stood on stage and I've watched men lives be transformed hastingly.
(25:01):
You see it. I see it, and I come home, man,
and I can't check out because I gotta check in, yes, sir,
oh JP, and coming home. I shouldn't have to check
in coming home. And she says, what do.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You do you know Adam took a nap and woke
up to a wife. The only context he had for
her was rest. Yeah, all he knew was rest when
he saw her. That's why you're still single. You're not
(25:42):
trying to work. You want to rest. God put Adam
asleep and woke them up to a wife. So when
I come home, you should remind me of rest, not work. Hey,
that's why you're still single. Okay, yeah, because you work
hard enough out there. I don't want to come home
(26:04):
to work either. Does that mean that we won't have
work to do, of course, but I don't want I
don't want you to be my work. I want us
to be our work and bro.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
And that's what I love about you, because you create space, man,
for me to even go because I'm not a person.
I don't talk about relationships and I don't talk about
different things openly. But you know, you have a certain
way and it's kind of like what I do in therapy.
But you have a way of creating the space to
allow the dialogue to take place. And that's what I feel, man,
(26:42):
And I say to myself, Man, I'm supportive. I cannot
wait for the day to sit in the audience and
to watch my wife do her thing. I'm a teammate.
I'm sure I'm a teammate. So it's not like I like,
I never forget telling a woman she's like, do you
feel like I said? No, I said, I grew up
(27:03):
coaching and training my sisters. I was like, go listen
to my sisters. They'll tell you, like our brother was out,
so a woman succeeding or excelling like like with my team,
Like I'm gonna order food, I'm gonna carry bags. I'm
an serve because to truly understand who you are as
a man, you understand what Christ was. He came to serve,
(27:26):
not to be served. So with that, I have an
understanding that i can lure myself. Doesn't mean I'm minimizing myself.
I'm lowering myself to serve you in whatever capacity. But
what happened is in the midst of trying to serve,
I'm dying on the inside. Jake.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I need you to understand, just as your brother, you
are too much. For most women.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
It's a lot. It's a lot, and I feel like
that day, it's a lot, Jake. It's too much. Because
I have my own career, I'm living in purpose. I'm
not out here slating around. I'm a good looking guy,
I'm focused and I'm not just giving anybody a chance,
and I serve greatly. That's overwhelming. That's too much for
(28:18):
some women because they're so used to having to carry something.
A woman doesn't have to carry you will almost find
you toxic. There's something wrong with you if I ain't
got to carry you because I'm so used to carrying things.
What do you do when? What do you do when.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Healing feels like toxicity and toxicity feels like healing, You
got more work to do. And that's why you're single,
sir again, is because Jay, You're not one that needs
to be carried. You are the carrier. And we're dealing
with the generation of women who are unfamiliar with christ
Like love. They're like Judas love. They like to be kissing, betrayed.
(29:07):
That makes them comfortable. And you come like Christ where
I don't let you kill me so that you could
be better for you.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I'll rip it up these cards back because this book,
that's what we're dealing with today. Bro.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
That's why I'll never leave my wife. Never We will
die together, because I don't need to look for anybody
that is. That woman understands, she gets it, and she
has raised me. My wife and I met when we
were eighteen, got married twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
She raised me. I'm not going nowhere. How long y'all
been married we've been married twenty two years. Yeah, we've
been married twenty two again. We met at eighteen, freshman
in college. We got married when we were twenty. We
have two kids, so she raised all three of us.
My wife raised me, bro And when you say raised
(30:08):
you because somebody here that like, I ain't trying to
raise no man. This that you provide a little contexts
to help the help the people there.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Well, if you're over forty, you're not raising anybody, right,
you're helping. We met when we were kids, so she
taught me how to be a man. I came from
a single parent home, she had a father. So she said, no,
that's not what men do. This is what men do. Nope,
don't do that, do this. And so she raised me right.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And at that time, how did you receive that? What
was there resistance or it was there some level of
where your ego was bruised or what was that ego?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Man? Because I had because I didn't have a father,
I had compiled all the fathers I wanted to be
into one man, and that was not logical.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
So I was James.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Evans and I was Cliff Hucksman, right, I was all
of them. And she helped me find me not James,
not Cliff, but Dave. And so that was a process.
It was still she's still teaching. I still learn from
her every single day.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Man, we could you know, uh CJ my producer, man,
Uh he and I talk often as we're on this road,
podcasts and the different things like that, and and we
we we have a lot of similarities. Uh you know,
both play sports and you know we're we are. I
(31:30):
think CJ probably I would you know, and I know
that I have a prophetic gift and c J I
would say that he's a seer. But we we have
these unique qualities about us, and and we often talk about,
right the complexities of trying to not just meet but
just even find someone who has capacity. Yes, sir, because
(31:52):
I think the biggest challenge is that for I have
to say this to a lot of my my my
colleagues that are therapists and that are like looking for
these type of men, always asks him do you have capacity?
I said, rather than asking, and I tell if I'm
in church, I said, stop asking God for the blessing
and begin to ask him for the capacity to hold
the blessing, because you're asking for something and you have
(32:16):
not built the container to hold the contents in that
you're asking for. So you're like, God, fill my cup,
but you don't have the capacity in your cup. And
sometimes that challenge, man is just kind of like it's
frustrating because man, especially now, turn forty three last month
and my mom is like, yo, king, you know, she
(32:39):
she well, she used to call me king. She called
me good doctor. Now she said, good doctor. How you
feel you've got ready to? I said, Mama, I believe
a part of me has always been ready. Yes, sir,
I said, I'm not running from love. I'm not running
from a relationship. I'm not running from a quote unquote
good woman. But Mama, to your point, I gotta go
home if I see that this inneval that don't have
(33:00):
the capacity to hold all that I am, because what
I've seen myself do, David, is for the sake of
going back to the Christ. Like, I'll let you kill me.
Matter of fact, I'll look at you while you're killing
me and have a smile on my face. Yes, sir,
because if killing me will give you the confidence to
(33:24):
stand up and whatever you have, I'll be okay with that.
But I have to say to myself. Jay, stop falling
on the sword, yes, sir, because the right woman does
not want you to fall on the sword. Matter of fact,
she's gonna help you pick it up and for you
to keep fighting. That's right, and that was a red one.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
If she's broken, she will always leak love, which means
she won't ever be able to house you. When I
married couple will say to have and to hold. There
are a lot of people that can have you, Jay,
but they can't hold you right because they're broken. There
will always leak love, and so you will always be
pouring in and it will always be dripping out because
(34:05):
they're not ready for you. And again I say it again, Jay,
You're a lot, bro, and not a lot in a
bad way, just bro, you a lot and most women
don't have the capacity for you, and they won't and
you can't fabricate it, can I just minister to my
brother real quick.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Better alone than poorly accompanied? Right, It's better to be
alone than poorly accompanied. And I think what you're experiencing,
I've been, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Jay.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
We talk and I'm like, Jay, you know I got
somebody I want you to meet. Nah, Okay, I'm not
ready this is because you know you right, and you
know that I'm tired of people dripping love because they
can't house me.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
And you, Bro, you just really summed up what I've
been experienced for the past two three years. Just dripping, stripping, Bro, just.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Ripping, dripping, you pouring in and they just can't hold it,
they can't house it, and it's unfortunate. The problem is
they can hold the average man's love, but you're not average.
And most of the men who are watching you are
not average. So you will always deal with some woman
who's gonna drip love because.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
She's and I keep trying to be average.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
You're never gonna be average. That's never gonna work. And
if you get with an average, if you act average,
j I will listen you bigger than me, Bro, if
I ever see you act an average and what a
what an average woman? I'm coming. I'm coming, Jay, that's
not you, that's not you. I know what is you though,
(35:33):
but we're not gonna go there right now? My god,
all right, Nora, my god, I know what is you?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Kid? Bo, we go, we go act right. Don't don't
think I don't know. Oh I know, man, Bro, I
I you know. Uh you know, there's so many emotions
happy man. Right now, Man, I want to cry, I
(36:05):
want to laugh. I want to take a moment to pause,
because if I'm honest, Man, I shrinked a lot. Man,
(36:26):
me too, I shrinked a lot man knowing that, knowing
that I got this great mission yep, this great mandate
and this man too. And I won't take up space
because it's like, man, I'm trying to make sure that
(36:46):
they can sit into space with me so they don't
feel you know what I'm saying, like you know, left out.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
And you become a murderer when you do that. And
the reason why is because if you're so big, you
suffocate the people that are big enough to love you. You're
too big, and it's your heart sitting on them will
kill them. I want you to hear that you're too
big for little And when I become a big back famous,
(37:15):
I'm talking about big in the body, big in the kingdom,
big in Christ. And so you can't be with the
little woman. You will suffocate her, will you will kill
her and it won't be anything you're doing.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Jay.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
The problem is that she will try to keep up
with your bigness and she will die. So you have
outgrown anything mediocre.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Can Yeah, you've outgrown it. And I think, man, the
hardest part of man on this journey man is is
outgrowing everything around you and nothing looks familiar. Yes, sir,
(38:00):
I'm right there in my life. I'm so alone bro.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Soon in a room full of people by myself.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah, you have to learn to live with that. That's
never gonna change. It's never gonna change. You're never gonna
be from. God won't let you be familiar with people
because your anointing is so important as God to be guarded,
and so God will isolate you so that people don't
(38:40):
kill you. So, Jay, you gotta get used to that, King, Yeah,
get used to it, Get used to walking alone, get
used to even man. When you get married at some point,
because of who you are, and this is not to
curse you, you will feel alone. The word alone is comprised
of two words all one. So govern I'm alone. God
(39:03):
says it's not good for man to be all one,
And so I think we forget the times that my
aloneeness doesn't mean that I'm defective. It means that I
am being perfected by Christ, and I'm all one. He said,
my grace is sufficious for you. That word sufficient really
just means to me that, man, my grace, what you
(39:26):
are looking forward about to break your back to get
God says my grace is that. So if you could
focus on the grace and the sufficiency, that thing won't
bother you so much when you don't get it. So
now we got to just we got to rock this
alone piece and willly become I talk to myself so much, brother,
I love me so me because I can't find nobody
(39:48):
else to talk to. They don't get it. They don't
get it, bro So, and I think, and our land here,
I think. The last thing I really want my brother
to do is get people think because Jay is attractive
and well known that he could have any woman he wants.
And the truth is he could. But the problem is
(40:09):
I've done too much work to have any woman I want, right,
I've done too much work to have any woman I
want now at this point, I need the woman that's
for me, and I can't really find.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
What do you do? Right?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
So you got to love you even more?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, man, I'm asked you the question I asked everybody
else because it is is I needed this episode for me,
we too, ye. Brother, is always great to see you, man,
and it's great to sit with you and to sist
(40:50):
with wise man as yourself, Yes, and to sit with
great counsel. My ask this question man, to every every
every guest man, and I know you have something profound.
And I'll say this to those that are watching. Profound
doesn't mean things, oh we'd already tweetable. Man. Sometimes it's
(41:11):
the simplest things are profound. What does healing mean to you, David?
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Healing means the ability to say I'm weak and be
okay with it. That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
For me.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
It's the ability to say I ain't got it at tired,
I'm weary, I knew I was healed. When I can
say I'm not okay. Yeah, yeah, that's what it is.
When we're being able to say I'm not okay.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yeah. Oh man, we were just sitting this moment because
as you talking to me, we're talking to CJ. Because
you know, CJ has become like a brother. And when
(42:01):
I see good men, and I see good men for
those you don't know, CJ is my producer, Q and
CODA film. What you guys see with just here, Bro
it's because of him and Q and Coder. And as
you were just talking, I just thought about him, and
I just thought about the other men in my life, man,
(42:21):
that really desire real partnership, men that will give anything,
that will sacrifice, that will go without so others have.
And even the emotions that I'm feeling about what you share,
I feeled it for them. And so what you shared
(42:46):
today was not only This wasn't just helpful. This was
life changing. This moment was life altering, and this was
divinely and CJ No, Man, we have a very unique
way a way we even select people. Man, it's all
God Like, God are drop in my spirit? You Literally
(43:10):
a friend of mine has had sent me your Facebook
post and she was like, Jay, what do you think
about it? I was like that nigga, David, don't miss
She's like, you know him? I said yeah, and then
you DM me and then I was like, Yo, let's
let's tap in and you know here we are. So
this entire process, because every conversation is cathartic, even for myself, yes, sir,
(43:39):
but this one today, man, was everything, because man, I
be in my head so much, man, and trying to
to downplay this anointing because again, here's what people don't realize.
I ain't asked for it. I ain't to heal me.
(44:00):
I ain't actually be man if it was left up
to me. I just wanted to be effective, Yes, Sir,
I don't want to be no influencer. I don't want like,
I don't care about life. Man if I had and
everybody know I loved Portugal, if I can live in Portugal,
cape town somewhere, man, I'm like, if I can go
to Europe like that's but I know I can't because
(44:21):
the calling is too great. Yes, and I don't. I don't.
I don't want to be a Jonah, so I'd rather
obey even in what I feel. Sometimes this war, this
thorn in my side because when I don't want to
pour into another man God to sen another man. Yes, sir,
(44:42):
yes you know so. Man, Brother, I cannot thank you
enough for your deposit, thank you for having you know
what I mean, man, I speak blessings over your work,
over your ministry, over your life, your family, your kids,
that God continues to breathe, because I believe when God
breathes on us, it gives us more life, sir. And
(45:06):
it gives us more life to the things that He's
called us to do. And if we have more life
with the things that we call us to do, we
now have the stamina to keep going the distance. Man,
And you're giving me some things to think about that
I can take with me today because that that you know,
that meteor because man, like I'm not a person that
(45:29):
I'm not into, you know, as a kid say popular
ish that ain't me, you know, and you're telling me
some Bishop Jakes told me. Bishop Jake, we were sitting down
talking and just like as we were sitting down, he
looked at me, he said, stop down playing yourself. And
(45:50):
I'm like, okays, b so if you like and and
for you to come because even to look away, I
still see what God where God is taking me. And
He's often trying to tell me like no, lean into
it because I'm like, nah, I don't want to know.
(46:11):
Are you I don't know? We ended? Are you afraid
of it? Like? What is the hesitation? Sometimes? Man? What
are you afraid of? I think sometimes man, I'm just
afraid of the distance that it creates sometimes, you know
what I mean. And and and I love my people
(46:33):
like I love but Bishop said something. He's like, you
have to you have to get okay with the distance
after because to stay close and the same thing that
they loved you for is just familiar and just this
whole you know, we still locked in, he said, it'd
be the same thing that used to kill you.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
The proximity. Yeah, I pray you get over that, bro. Yeah,
you know, you know you're creating the distances. You're creating
the distance anyway, Your life is creating distance, so you
might as well go with it.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
That's it, bro. Man Listen, shit, y'all saw some of
every day to day this episode Man with my brother
David Burrs. Go follow him on all of his platform.
I mean, this brother is wisdom, walking, wisdom, talking wisdom,
(47:34):
living in real time. And I hope that this experience
that you guys have had the opportunity that of us
just sharing unapologetically, honestly sharing raw emotions. And again, I
don't mind putting myself on this couch and allowing the
(47:55):
guests to turn the mirror to me and Brother, I
thank you for being that man. This brother is a
beacon of light to myself and to so many men.
You know, even men he doesn't know it but the
men that he's touched, that he's never met. And I
encourage you to continue your journey wherever you are, and
(48:15):
from one person who is working through the process of
not shrinking, I'm challenging you to not shrink Island, Yes, sir,
because when the light is on you, there's nothing that
can stop it from Johnny. So remember you could listen
to Jesse over Doctor J audibly on the Black Effect
podcast and iHeartRadio podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast,
(48:40):
and again subscribe to the channel. And until next time,
remember healing is a journey and wholeness is the destination.
Jess Here over Doctor J a production of the Black
Effect podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
your favorite shows. And you can follow me at King J.
(49:03):
Barnett on Instagram and x and follow us on YouTube.
Just here, doctor J.
Welcome to jess Hell with Doctor J, a production of
the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
another episode with just Here with Doctor J. And I
am your host, Doctor J. This is a space for healing,
thought provoking conversations, life transforming conversation. And I want to
say this, don't just pop in and listen to these episodes.
(00:23):
Join the healing community by subscribing to jess Hell with
Doctor J. And you can listen to jess Hell with
Doctor J on Black Effect Podcast and iHeart Podcast audibly.
I'm excited about today's episode. We already been going back
and forth. This is my brother from another mother who's
been trying to get me married for the past several years,
(00:45):
and so I'm going to cross my leg like him.
This is none other than the incomparable, amazing good brother,
one of the original good brothers that's been part of
my circle and my journey. He's a relationship strategist and
many of you have seen his post a lot of
his posters going viral, just so many different things that
(01:05):
he share wisdom, just insight on men how to love
their wives, on men how to love themselves. But man, listen,
I don't want to take up any more time. But
I want to welcome my brother David Burris to the
healing circle. Man, to the healing community rather man, because
this community is growing fast. Man. So man, welcome, Man,
(01:26):
Thank you, you'd already been starting. You know what I'm saying.
We ain't gonna go there now? Good? Oh behave I'm
good hey man. So I'm here in La Man. The
weather is beautiful. Man, you are here. And I always
start the episodes of not with how you're doing. But Man,
(01:46):
I know you look good and you look well, but
I want to ask you how you feel it.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I feel I feel healed. That's what I feel. I
feel healed, I feel healthy, I feel focused, I feel
purpose man.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Man, Yeah, that's how I feel. Man. Now, heal, focus
and purpose. Why those three words?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
You can't disconnect them. Healing points to purpose. Purpose requires focus, right,
And so if I'm gonna be focused or purpose full,
I've got to make sure that I'm healed enough. Here's why.
Because when I'm not healed, my healing distracts me from
my purpose. So I've got to make sure that I'm
focused on being healed so that I can fulfill purpose.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeh, I love that man. You listen, you already cooking,
and you know how you and I also again on
the fall man. We go back and forth, and I
love that we're able to share this space, and hopefully
the viewers, both men and women and whoever watching, that
they're able to grasp the wisdom and the insight because
(02:51):
many men, David are struggling with two of the three.
It's what is my purpose, sir? And then a lot
of them are omitting healing, yes, sir, And as you said,
you can't find purpose until you are heal, yes, until
you begin the healing journey. Why do you think so
(03:11):
many men run from healing?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I think a part of it is that when I
am healing, I meet a version of myself that I'm
afraid of. I gotter die to me to meet me
and a part of me. That was my experience when
I had to die to me to meet me, and
that takes so much work, and I think a lot
of men are willing to meet themselves. A part of
(03:36):
meeting yourself means that I have to think thoughts that
scare me, and I don't want to do that, so
I would rather feel safe and comfortable thoughts as opposed
to healing and becoming uncomfortable to get to know.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Me, Yeah, because seeing who you really are requires you
to take off that mask. So you've been portraying to
be yes, sir, and that's something that a lot of man, Yes,
I am not willing to do because to take that
mask off means that you have to face unbearable truths.
And I built my world around my mask. That all
(04:11):
you know is my mask exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So I've got to reintroduce you to me, and I
don't want.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
To do that either. If oh man, I've had to
do this.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
This is why I know what it is. I've lived
my life as a million other people. I was thinking
last night, if I could just speak freely, just for
a moment. Last night, Jay, I was thinking about how
I have deposited myself and so many people looking to
get me back, and they couldn't give me they had,
(04:44):
they couldn't give me back me. And so what happened
was then it became a transactional relationship where they didn't
have to hold up their end of the bargain and
I left more empty. So I had to really get
away from people so I can get with me, so
that I'm not giving all of me the people looking
for me back.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, because when we're looking for us, it actually robs
our experience from having this encounter of the authentic sort
of connection to why we even to get poor in
the first place. Sir. And I love that you said
(05:26):
you disconnected from people so you can get back to you.
And that's really what healing is. It's disconnecting from the definitions,
the belief system, disconnected from sometime the environments, whether that's geographically.
Because I often have told clients that you may have
to leave in order to really heal, yes, sir, because
(05:46):
you can't heal in the same spaces or places that
are continuously to break you. And then you may have
to leave some relationships, sir. And you know we're going
to go here. You've been a relationship, srate. How hard
is it when you have to give that suggestion for
(06:07):
someone to lead what they have been so connected to
what I.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Tell people, it becomes easier for me to tell them
this when I say it this way. You cannot grow out.
You can't grow into without growing out of, right, So
if I'm growing into anything, I'm always growing out of something.
So you got to ask yourself. The question is what
I'm growing into more valuable to me than what I'm
growing out of, And in most cases it is, and
(06:32):
so it becomes easier for me to let that go.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Now.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I still have the grieve the loss of what I love,
but I've got to gain more love for myself moving forward,
and that makes it easier, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I want to want to go back to what you said,
growing into it, you have to grow out of it, yes, sir.
That part is difficult because for most people they don't
want to leave, Yes, sir, familiarity, Sir. I don't want
to grow out of what I've been doing because to
grow out of what I've been doing means I have
to do something new, and new scars meets because new
(07:09):
requires not only just the new practices, but new requires
a new level of functioning. Sir, dude, do you think
that's where most couples and where I'm going with this
is just talking from a relationship, is when I'm seeing
couples say that they grew apart, is that what happened
is that the sort of dynamic that has happening between
(07:32):
them is that one person is not willing to grow
out of themselves in order to grow into something greater.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, and so that's why you have to make sure
that whoever you are, you're with someone who has a
growth mindset, because if we're not growing together, you're growing
on me. Now you're a cancer, and I don't want
anything that that's life is contingent although man, no, no,
(08:01):
it's a fact.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Listen, we go keep all this wraw. This is always
out of there. This man said, if you don't have
a growth mindset, you're growing on me. You're growing on me.
You're cancer, and you are cancer. And your lights is
contingent on my healths which is dangerous. And your light
is contingent on my health and that's dangerous. Yeah, listen, listen,
(08:25):
y'all better stay connected to this Hiller community because if
that man ain't said a word, if you don't have
I want to say this again, if you don't have
a growth mindset growing on me and you are a cancer.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
You can't grow with me if you don't have a
growth mindset, right, and so now I have to now
drag you everywhere go not to make this a Bible step,
but if you look at Genesis, man, and look at
Adam and Eve if you look at Genesis, che I
think it's chapter two, verse twenty one, Verse twenty two.
Bible says that God put animously cut them open, broke
the rib. Something interesting happens after that, The Bible says
(08:59):
of verse twenty two, and he closed that the place
would flesh. Next thing we read is then he made Eve.
So he cut him open, broke the rib, closed the
place with flesh. Then he made Eve. What is God
showing us? God refused to He refused to bring her
until he healed him. God closed Adam first, then he
(09:21):
formed Eve. Here's why had he not done that, she
would have been a contaminant to him, a cancer to him.
Had he not formed Eve, he would have had to
carry her the rest of his life. Right, And so
we all have a process we have to go through
so that we're growing together and you're not become a
cancer to me.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
And as you're talking, man, if God doesn't close him,
now he has an open womb, he.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Is an open womban Now she's his nurse, not as
help me. And you don't want to invite anybody into
your life who has to be your life coach, your nurse,
your doctor. I need a partner.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I told y'all relationships strategies. I listen this.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I've been trying to get you married. You won't listen
to I've been jay, I've been trying. See here's a problem.
You won't listen to. Man, I will listen to you. No,
you won't say don't, No, you won't because.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Here's the thing, man, Because I'll say this, man, when
when we start healing as men, how we see potential candidates,
it's a change. And it's not that I see them
(10:44):
as something is wrong, but I now see the deficiencies
that is possibly a wait for me to carry and
not to say. Because one one female lady said to me, well,
you just looking for somebody to be perfect. I said, no, no, no, no,
I'm not looking for perfection, but there is an element
(11:06):
of healing that I am looking for, as what you
were saying, because too many times, if you have a
growth mindset, you have to be with somebody that has
a growth mindset, not somebody who has a mindset of
positive thinking. What are you doing today? Jack? What is
this about? Exactly? You know what I'm saying. You know
(11:28):
what I'm saying because will take the hot differends We'll
take positive thinking right, because I'm a positive thinker. That's
not a growth mindset.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
You can find positive thinking on Sesame Street exactly. Big
Bird it was a positive thinker, but would probably make
a terrible spouse. You don't want to find your spouse
because they're positive thinking.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Man, I need you to be growing. Man, oh man,
this brother is cooking. He said. Big Bird was a positive.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Hu, great mindset, get you through. But you can't go
to the future with me because I need more than
positive thinking because the truth is that it won't always
feel positive. And all you have is positive thinking and
no growth, we're gonna be stuck.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I need you to be able to grow with me,
which means there's got to be some adversity.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And with that adversity you have to lean into it. Man,
you have to so I want to Man, this is
so good man, this version of a man that you are.
And I'm forty three, and to look at the years
that it's taken me to even get to this place
(12:43):
where I can honestly say now I'm experiencing joy, not happiness.
It's with joy. I've shared the physical weight, I've shared,
the emotional weight. I have shared the trauma and now
in this place because I can underst say that in
previous season that I dated good people in and I
(13:05):
wasn't necessarily bad, but there were parts of me that
was not truly ready to really live where I can
take up space because when you are a man that's
kind of like, well, I don't really want it, because
that's the type of man that I was, especially after
what I went through in twenty eighteen with which was
a tumultulous relationship. I didn't even know what it was
(13:27):
to be with a narcissistic or a narcissist a woman
I had no until and that thing man Dane there
took me out. But what I realized is that even
as I began to heal, there was parts of me
that was afraid. And I was afraid because it's not
that I was afraid to love. I was just afraid
(13:48):
to love the wrong person again. I was afraid to
let my guard down with someone that would see those
fragmented parts and then start poking at them. Because I
know I'm a person I can see your wounds, and
I'll look for bandages. I'll look for some girls. I
would look for something to sort of protect them and
(14:12):
cover them. And that's the thing that I'm hearing you
say because a growth mindset, you have the understanding that
we're not going to always have these moments where I
look at you and I said, man, I like you today.
There would be moments where I may not like you.
But I made a commitment to continue to take this
(14:34):
journey with you. And that was my fear. Man. And
after unpacking, sitting with my therapist again even last year,
and what I realized, and again I'm being transparent, is
I met great women, man, but oftentimes they were not
emotionally available and they get good here That in twenty
(14:55):
five is crazy, and they were all the things. But
understanding what God has placed in me and what He's
placed on me requires my partner to have a level
of emotional capacity, understanding and intellect, and also awareness and descernment.
Because just because I can go out and talk to
(15:17):
the masters and help them, that may be some things
personally or some things in some moments where you have
to desern. And that's not to say that I can't express,
but some things may cause me to just be solid,
and not because I don't have anything to say, but
some things, man, will just knock the breath out of you. Man, Sir.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I found out man that sometimes God will send a
man a wife because she has language for what he feels. Right,
And I didn't that's what I even felt until here's
the thing, Jay, I didn't know what I felt to
my wife was complaining to me about me. She gave
me language for how I feel too. She will say
things like I feel like that too, I feel that too.
(15:59):
So sometimes it's men and we need to really be
honest and say I don't have language, but she does,
so let me help, let me, let her help me.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Man. And you know, I love what you represent, brother
in and what you say for and what you model,
because what you just said. I was talking to a
colleague of minds and she says, Jay, what is it
that you truly desire for a partner? And I said,
just for her to have the language. It's for her
to have the language that is unique to mine, Yes, sir,
(16:33):
experience to my spirit, to my soul, to my mind,
to my calling, Yes, sir. Because as a clinician, I
never take my clinical therapy at I don't go in
there trying to therapiize or clinicalize anybody. I go in
open and sometimes I've had to say to myself that
(16:53):
has often caused me to kind of be a situation
I'm like, m, I probably shouldn't be here, because as
a clinician and even as a relationship strategist, there's a
level of grace that we extend just because we have
seen it all and heard it all and we know.
So I'm often extending grace and spaces, and not to
(17:13):
say that it's not warranted, but in this space, am
I able to take up space where I can say, Man,
I need this, and I'm trying to see if you
have the capacity to give it.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yes, sir, say, there aren't men. There aren't a lot
of men who are as honest as you are and
honest as I am. And what I'm discovering, man, and
this is not to take the conversation left, but take
a left. But we're dealing with the generation of women
who are not ready for the men who they told
to go heal. Right, you told me to go heal,
you told me go get therapy, and now I'm back
(17:48):
and you're not ready to be accountable.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
That's a problem.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
You told me to heal, you said, Nigro, you need therapy.
You need to go get a mentor to be around
some brothers. I did all of that, and now you're
not You're not able to hold yourself accountable. Now we
have a problem because now I've got to drag you
when you once drag me.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Where where do we go from here? Today? Home? The
hell out of here. That's where we go. That's where
we go.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
We we have to We got to go home because
and and what I mean by that is as men,
now it's okay for us to say you're not for me.
There was a time when we couldn't say that because
we were trying to appease you a lot of a
lot of Yeah, now you're not for me. Since I've
done the work, that's a here the conversation though.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Bro, you like you can keep digging in that man,
because I'm I'm, I'm You're you're You're bringing so much clarity, man,
because I've heard women so much. Uh, you know, he
needs to do this, he needs to do that. And
I'm seeing brothers now choosing themselves, yes, sir, yes, And
brothers are like and they're choosing themselves over the physicality.
(19:07):
That's choosing themselves over a moment of pleasure. Brothers are
choosing peace. Brothers are like Man, I'll sit at home
watching Netflix by myself because it brings a center piece.
Because what I think is happening. Men are learning that
they are deserving her quality of lights that they never
told that they could have because we often heard that
(19:27):
happy wife, happy life.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Sir, that's a lie. Yeah that's a lie. Yeah, that's
a lie. So now I'm finding out I have a
right to feel too. When I started feeling, when you
started feeling, Jay, that changed things. When I can feel,
now I can connect to my environment. Now I don't
like the way that makes me feel, and when I
can express that, and now when you get me languaged
(19:51):
for it, now I'm the jerk, right because now I
have feelings. We were talking earlier about a woman having
language for us and what I I would like the
women who are watching this understanding. Sometimes the language is silence, right.
Sometimes the languages you just letting me hurt for a
little bit. I don't want you to fix it. I
(20:12):
don't want you to repair it, just be there. I
was watching Centers the other day, man, and this one
of the scenes in this movie. Not to give it away,
but uh smoke and Annie, his wife, were having a disagreement,
and man, she she just put She just put his
head on her breast, and I saw and that shifted everything.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
It did, she shifted.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
We as men just need a nice, soft place to
land without being judged, without being criticized. I just want
to be able to put my head in your breast.
Not for anything sexual, here's the thing, but because when
I was when I was an infant, started walking, my
mother clap for me. And then when I started riding
(20:54):
my bike without without any help, she clapped for me.
Then I got my first touchdown, she clapped. I got
first job, she clapped, bought my first house, she clapped,
and then she turned me over to you, and you're silent.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I'm used to the most important woman in my life
celebrating me, and I don't know how to tell you
that without you telling me. I want to be coddled.
I want to be coddled. I want to be nurtured.
And there's something in me I can't get out until
you put my head on your breast.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Brother. This this, this, this is this is given life.
And from the sound of the room and the size,
it is given these brothers, the brother's life, because this
is the expansive dialogue that is needed to also provide
understanding to what we think, yes sir, and what we're
(21:44):
not able to articulate. And so you're doing so poignantly
and so beautifully uh and intellectually well. And I love
how you are just really taking the time to really
shape it for men, yes, sir, to have this level
understanding and this level of awareness and this level of consciousness, sis, sir.
(22:06):
Because it requires a state of consciousness, sir, to not
just understand that you have feelings and you're able to feel,
but even just a consciousness that were you in a
space that you cannot express that and you are not
able to share what you feel, that's a prison. It's
(22:27):
a prison, man, it's a personal prison. When I don't
have language for what I feel, I'm trapped in my feelings.
And then I got the nerve to hold my tears back.
So now I'm my worst enemy because I won't let
me cry. What do you do when it's you that
won't let you be you? What do you do when
you won't let you cry?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
There's nobody else stopping you but you? And fellas we
got to do better, right, We have to do better.
We have to learn how to get this stuff out
because you're killing yourself trying to be Superman and you
forgot he was also Clark KT. Yeah, also Clark Kit.
You gotta take the cape off game.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
As I say that, cake is choking the life. It's
choking the life out. Man. Yep, man, this is this
is so good. Man. I'm just sitting here just processing
what kind of watches that? Real quick? I know, man,
but that's like that. Man, this is a good brother
of Mine's gays to me about twelve years ago. I like, yeah,
(23:27):
thank you man, about twelve years ago, me too. Yeah,
it'll fit you brother. You know, man, maybe I'm blessing
what you was about to say. Maybe maybe I bless you,
bless me. I'm lost you bless you. Yeah, man, I'm
really soaking his in man, because and and you and
I as we spoken, man, I desire a partner, yes,
(23:50):
but I don't want to be a therapist. Yes, I
don't want to be a coach. I don't want to
be a father. I just want to be me, yes, sir,
And I'm being transparent now. The last relationship I had
that was one of the things that I said, I
just want to be man. I don't want to be
doctor j I just want to be And I told her,
(24:15):
I said, listen, I said, I want to paint this
picture for you, and I want to give you some
contexts and as we will saying therapy, I want to
contextualize this in a way so you have the understanding
of what it is that I'm feeling. I said, do
(24:37):
you know what it's like to go out here and
fix the lives of men while I come back and
I have no clue on how to unravel the life
that I'm in. I told her. I said, I have
stood on stage and I've watched men lives be transformed hastingly.
(25:01):
You see it. I see it, and I come home, man,
and I can't check out because I gotta check in, yes, sir,
oh JP, and coming home. I shouldn't have to check
in coming home. And she says, what do.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You do you know Adam took a nap and woke
up to a wife. The only context he had for
her was rest. Yeah, all he knew was rest when
he saw her. That's why you're still single. You're not
(25:42):
trying to work. You want to rest. God put Adam
asleep and woke them up to a wife. So when
I come home, you should remind me of rest, not work. Hey,
that's why you're still single. Okay, yeah, because you work
hard enough out there. I don't want to come home
(26:04):
to work either. Does that mean that we won't have
work to do, of course, but I don't want I
don't want you to be my work. I want us
to be our work and bro.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
And that's what I love about you, because you create space, man,
for me to even go because I'm not a person.
I don't talk about relationships and I don't talk about
different things openly. But you know, you have a certain
way and it's kind of like what I do in therapy.
But you have a way of creating the space to
allow the dialogue to take place. And that's what I feel, man,
(26:42):
And I say to myself, Man, I'm supportive. I cannot
wait for the day to sit in the audience and
to watch my wife do her thing. I'm a teammate.
I'm sure I'm a teammate. So it's not like I like,
I never forget telling a woman she's like, do you
feel like I said? No, I said, I grew up
(27:03):
coaching and training my sisters. I was like, go listen
to my sisters. They'll tell you, like our brother was out,
so a woman succeeding or excelling like like with my team,
Like I'm gonna order food, I'm gonna carry bags. I'm
an serve because to truly understand who you are as
a man, you understand what Christ was. He came to serve,
(27:26):
not to be served. So with that, I have an
understanding that i can lure myself. Doesn't mean I'm minimizing myself.
I'm lowering myself to serve you in whatever capacity. But
what happened is in the midst of trying to serve,
I'm dying on the inside. Jake.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I need you to understand, just as your brother, you
are too much. For most women.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
It's a lot. It's a lot, and I feel like
that day, it's a lot, Jake. It's too much. Because
I have my own career, I'm living in purpose. I'm
not out here slating around. I'm a good looking guy,
I'm focused and I'm not just giving anybody a chance,
and I serve greatly. That's overwhelming. That's too much for
(28:18):
some women because they're so used to having to carry something.
A woman doesn't have to carry you will almost find
you toxic. There's something wrong with you if I ain't
got to carry you because I'm so used to carrying things.
What do you do when? What do you do when.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Healing feels like toxicity and toxicity feels like healing, You
got more work to do. And that's why you're single,
sir again, is because Jay, You're not one that needs
to be carried. You are the carrier. And we're dealing
with the generation of women who are unfamiliar with christ
Like love. They're like Judas love. They like to be kissing, betrayed.
(29:07):
That makes them comfortable. And you come like Christ where
I don't let you kill me so that you could
be better for you.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I'll rip it up these cards back because this book,
that's what we're dealing with today. Bro.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
That's why I'll never leave my wife. Never We will
die together, because I don't need to look for anybody
that is. That woman understands, she gets it, and she
has raised me. My wife and I met when we
were eighteen, got married twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
She raised me. I'm not going nowhere. How long y'all
been married we've been married twenty two years. Yeah, we've
been married twenty two again. We met at eighteen, freshman
in college. We got married when we were twenty. We
have two kids, so she raised all three of us.
My wife raised me, bro And when you say raised
(30:08):
you because somebody here that like, I ain't trying to
raise no man. This that you provide a little contexts
to help the help the people there.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Well, if you're over forty, you're not raising anybody, right,
you're helping. We met when we were kids, so she
taught me how to be a man. I came from
a single parent home, she had a father. So she said, no,
that's not what men do. This is what men do. Nope,
don't do that, do this. And so she raised me right.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And at that time, how did you receive that? What
was there resistance or it was there some level of
where your ego was bruised or what was that ego?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Man? Because I had because I didn't have a father,
I had compiled all the fathers I wanted to be
into one man, and that was not logical.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
So I was James.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Evans and I was Cliff Hucksman, right, I was all
of them. And she helped me find me not James,
not Cliff, but Dave. And so that was a process.
It was still she's still teaching. I still learn from
her every single day.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Man, we could you know, uh CJ my producer, man,
Uh he and I talk often as we're on this road,
podcasts and the different things like that, and and we
we we have a lot of similarities. Uh you know,
both play sports and you know we're we are. I
(31:30):
think CJ probably I would you know, and I know
that I have a prophetic gift and c J I
would say that he's a seer. But we we have
these unique qualities about us, and and we often talk about,
right the complexities of trying to not just meet but
just even find someone who has capacity. Yes, sir, because
(31:52):
I think the biggest challenge is that for I have
to say this to a lot of my my my
colleagues that are therapists and that are like looking for
these type of men, always asks him do you have capacity?
I said, rather than asking, and I tell if I'm
in church, I said, stop asking God for the blessing
and begin to ask him for the capacity to hold
the blessing, because you're asking for something and you have
(32:16):
not built the container to hold the contents in that
you're asking for. So you're like, God, fill my cup,
but you don't have the capacity in your cup. And
sometimes that challenge, man is just kind of like it's
frustrating because man, especially now, turn forty three last month
and my mom is like, yo, king, you know, she
(32:39):
she well, she used to call me king. She called
me good doctor. Now she said, good doctor. How you
feel you've got ready to? I said, Mama, I believe
a part of me has always been ready. Yes, sir,
I said, I'm not running from love. I'm not running
from a relationship. I'm not running from a quote unquote
good woman. But Mama, to your point, I gotta go
home if I see that this inneval that don't have
(33:00):
the capacity to hold all that I am, because what
I've seen myself do, David, is for the sake of
going back to the Christ. Like, I'll let you kill me.
Matter of fact, I'll look at you while you're killing
me and have a smile on my face. Yes, sir,
because if killing me will give you the confidence to
(33:24):
stand up and whatever you have, I'll be okay with that.
But I have to say to myself. Jay, stop falling
on the sword, yes, sir, because the right woman does
not want you to fall on the sword. Matter of fact,
she's gonna help you pick it up and for you
to keep fighting. That's right, and that was a red one.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
If she's broken, she will always leak love, which means
she won't ever be able to house you. When I
married couple will say to have and to hold. There
are a lot of people that can have you, Jay,
but they can't hold you right because they're broken. There
will always leak love, and so you will always be
pouring in and it will always be dripping out because
(34:05):
they're not ready for you. And again I say it again, Jay,
You're a lot, bro, and not a lot in a
bad way, just bro, you a lot and most women
don't have the capacity for you, and they won't and
you can't fabricate it, can I just minister to my
brother real quick.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Better alone than poorly accompanied? Right, It's better to be
alone than poorly accompanied. And I think what you're experiencing,
I've been, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Jay.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
We talk and I'm like, Jay, you know I got
somebody I want you to meet. Nah, Okay, I'm not
ready this is because you know you right, and you
know that I'm tired of people dripping love because they
can't house me.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
And you, Bro, you just really summed up what I've
been experienced for the past two three years. Just dripping, stripping, Bro, just.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Ripping, dripping, you pouring in and they just can't hold it,
they can't house it, and it's unfortunate. The problem is
they can hold the average man's love, but you're not average.
And most of the men who are watching you are
not average. So you will always deal with some woman
who's gonna drip love because.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
She's and I keep trying to be average.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
You're never gonna be average. That's never gonna work. And
if you get with an average, if you act average,
j I will listen you bigger than me, Bro, if
I ever see you act an average and what a
what an average woman? I'm coming. I'm coming, Jay, that's
not you, that's not you. I know what is you though,
(35:33):
but we're not gonna go there right now? My god,
all right, Nora, my god, I know what is you?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Kid? Bo, we go, we go act right. Don't don't
think I don't know. Oh I know, man, Bro, I
I you know. Uh you know, there's so many emotions
happy man. Right now, Man, I want to cry, I
(36:05):
want to laugh. I want to take a moment to pause,
because if I'm honest, Man, I shrinked a lot. Man,
(36:26):
me too, I shrinked a lot man knowing that, knowing
that I got this great mission yep, this great mandate
and this man too. And I won't take up space
because it's like, man, I'm trying to make sure that
(36:46):
they can sit into space with me so they don't
feel you know what I'm saying, like you know, left out.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
And you become a murderer when you do that. And
the reason why is because if you're so big, you
suffocate the people that are big enough to love you. You're
too big, and it's your heart sitting on them will
kill them. I want you to hear that you're too
big for little And when I become a big back famous,
(37:15):
I'm talking about big in the body, big in the kingdom,
big in Christ. And so you can't be with the
little woman. You will suffocate her, will you will kill
her and it won't be anything you're doing.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Jay.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
The problem is that she will try to keep up
with your bigness and she will die. So you have
outgrown anything mediocre.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Can Yeah, you've outgrown it. And I think, man, the
hardest part of man on this journey man is is
outgrowing everything around you and nothing looks familiar. Yes, sir,
(38:00):
I'm right there in my life. I'm so alone bro.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Soon in a room full of people by myself.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah, you have to learn to live with that. That's
never gonna change. It's never gonna change. You're never gonna
be from. God won't let you be familiar with people
because your anointing is so important as God to be guarded,
and so God will isolate you so that people don't
(38:40):
kill you. So, Jay, you gotta get used to that, King, Yeah,
get used to it, Get used to walking alone, get
used to even man. When you get married at some point,
because of who you are, and this is not to
curse you, you will feel alone. The word alone is comprised
of two words all one. So govern I'm alone. God
(39:03):
says it's not good for man to be all one,
And so I think we forget the times that my
aloneeness doesn't mean that I'm defective. It means that I
am being perfected by Christ, and I'm all one. He said,
my grace is sufficious for you. That word sufficient really
just means to me that, man, my grace, what you
(39:26):
are looking forward about to break your back to get
God says my grace is that. So if you could
focus on the grace and the sufficiency, that thing won't
bother you so much when you don't get it. So
now we got to just we got to rock this
alone piece and willly become I talk to myself so much, brother,
I love me so me because I can't find nobody
(39:48):
else to talk to. They don't get it. They don't
get it, bro So, and I think, and our land here,
I think. The last thing I really want my brother
to do is get people think because Jay is attractive
and well known that he could have any woman he wants.
And the truth is he could. But the problem is
(40:09):
I've done too much work to have any woman I want, right,
I've done too much work to have any woman I
want now at this point, I need the woman that's
for me, and I can't really find.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
What do you do? Right?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
So you got to love you even more?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, man, I'm asked you the question I asked everybody
else because it is is I needed this episode for me,
we too, ye. Brother, is always great to see you, man,
and it's great to sit with you and to sist
(40:50):
with wise man as yourself, Yes, and to sit with
great counsel. My ask this question man, to every every
every guest man, and I know you have something profound.
And I'll say this to those that are watching. Profound
doesn't mean things, oh we'd already tweetable. Man. Sometimes it's
(41:11):
the simplest things are profound. What does healing mean to you, David?
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Healing means the ability to say I'm weak and be
okay with it. That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
For me.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
It's the ability to say I ain't got it at tired,
I'm weary, I knew I was healed. When I can
say I'm not okay. Yeah, yeah, that's what it is.
When we're being able to say I'm not okay.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yeah. Oh man, we were just sitting this moment because
as you talking to me, we're talking to CJ. Because
you know, CJ has become like a brother. And when
(42:01):
I see good men, and I see good men for
those you don't know, CJ is my producer, Q and
CODA film. What you guys see with just here, Bro
it's because of him and Q and Coder. And as
you were just talking, I just thought about him, and
I just thought about the other men in my life, man,
(42:21):
that really desire real partnership, men that will give anything,
that will sacrifice, that will go without so others have.
And even the emotions that I'm feeling about what you share,
I feeled it for them. And so what you shared
(42:46):
today was not only This wasn't just helpful. This was
life changing. This moment was life altering, and this was
divinely and CJ No, Man, we have a very unique
way a way we even select people. Man, it's all
God Like, God are drop in my spirit? You Literally
(43:10):
a friend of mine has had sent me your Facebook
post and she was like, Jay, what do you think
about it? I was like that nigga, David, don't miss
She's like, you know him? I said yeah, and then
you DM me and then I was like, Yo, let's
let's tap in and you know here we are. So
this entire process, because every conversation is cathartic, even for myself, yes, sir,
(43:39):
but this one today, man, was everything, because man, I
be in my head so much, man, and trying to
to downplay this anointing because again, here's what people don't realize.
I ain't asked for it. I ain't to heal me.
(44:00):
I ain't actually be man if it was left up
to me. I just wanted to be effective, Yes, Sir,
I don't want to be no influencer. I don't want like,
I don't care about life. Man if I had and
everybody know I loved Portugal, if I can live in Portugal,
cape town somewhere, man, I'm like, if I can go
to Europe like that's but I know I can't because
(44:21):
the calling is too great. Yes, and I don't. I don't.
I don't want to be a Jonah, so I'd rather
obey even in what I feel. Sometimes this war, this
thorn in my side because when I don't want to
pour into another man God to sen another man. Yes, sir,
(44:42):
yes you know so. Man, Brother, I cannot thank you
enough for your deposit, thank you for having you know
what I mean, man, I speak blessings over your work,
over your ministry, over your life, your family, your kids,
that God continues to breathe, because I believe when God
breathes on us, it gives us more life, sir. And
(45:06):
it gives us more life to the things that He's
called us to do. And if we have more life
with the things that we call us to do, we
now have the stamina to keep going the distance. Man,
And you're giving me some things to think about that
I can take with me today because that that you know,
that meteor because man, like I'm not a person that
(45:29):
I'm not into, you know, as a kid say popular
ish that ain't me, you know, and you're telling me
some Bishop Jakes told me. Bishop Jake, we were sitting down
talking and just like as we were sitting down, he
looked at me, he said, stop down playing yourself. And
(45:50):
I'm like, okays, b so if you like and and
for you to come because even to look away, I
still see what God where God is taking me. And
He's often trying to tell me like no, lean into
it because I'm like, nah, I don't want to know.
(46:11):
Are you I don't know? We ended? Are you afraid
of it? Like? What is the hesitation? Sometimes? Man? What
are you afraid of? I think sometimes man, I'm just
afraid of the distance that it creates sometimes, you know
what I mean. And and and I love my people
(46:33):
like I love but Bishop said something. He's like, you
have to you have to get okay with the distance
after because to stay close and the same thing that
they loved you for is just familiar and just this
whole you know, we still locked in, he said, it'd
be the same thing that used to kill you.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
The proximity. Yeah, I pray you get over that, bro. Yeah,
you know, you know you're creating the distances. You're creating
the distance anyway, Your life is creating distance, so you
might as well go with it.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
That's it, bro. Man Listen, shit, y'all saw some of
every day to day this episode Man with my brother
David Burrs. Go follow him on all of his platform.
I mean, this brother is wisdom, walking, wisdom, talking wisdom,
(47:34):
living in real time. And I hope that this experience
that you guys have had the opportunity that of us
just sharing unapologetically, honestly sharing raw emotions. And again, I
don't mind putting myself on this couch and allowing the
(47:55):
guests to turn the mirror to me and Brother, I
thank you for being that man. This brother is a
beacon of light to myself and to so many men.
You know, even men he doesn't know it but the
men that he's touched, that he's never met. And I
encourage you to continue your journey wherever you are, and
(48:15):
from one person who is working through the process of
not shrinking, I'm challenging you to not shrink Island, Yes, sir,
because when the light is on you, there's nothing that
can stop it from Johnny. So remember you could listen
to Jesse over Doctor J audibly on the Black Effect
podcast and iHeartRadio podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast,
(48:40):
and again subscribe to the channel. And until next time,
remember healing is a journey and wholeness is the destination.
Jess Here over Doctor J a production of the Black
Effect podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
your favorite shows. And you can follow me at King J.
(49:03):
Barnett on Instagram and x and follow us on YouTube.
Just here, doctor J.
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