The Healing Power of Vulnerability with Rico Love

In this transformative episode of Just Heal with Dr. J Barnett, Dr. Jay engages in a poignant and revealing dialogue with Grammy Award-winning artist and producer Rico Love. They delve into Rico's journey of emotional healing, the importance of community, and the challenges of mental health in the Black community. Rico opens up about his struggles with prolonged stress disorder, the weight of leadership, and the significant role his father's example of love played in his life. Through candid reflections and shared experiences, this episode highlights the power of vulnerability, the importance of emotional intelligence, and the continuous journey of growth and self-discovery in the pursuit of healing.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to jess Here with Doctor J, a production of
the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
Just Here with Doctor J, and I am your host,
Doctor J. Barnett. Listen. Some of you have been eavesdropping
into the episodes, but I want to take the opportunity
to say go ahead and subscribe to Just Heal Doctor J.

(00:20):
You can listen audibly on Spotify, the Black Effect Podcast Network,
and also on iHeart or anywhere that you listen to podcasts.
All right, so we are back at the healing community,
and I'm excited today about our guests. Y'all know how
we get down here in the healing community. I love

(00:40):
to have conversations with individuals that are navigating their healing journey.
They've been through a journey or they're in the midst
of one. And I love that God has really given
us an opportunity to share this platform across the world
and to make mental health look real. So often, many
times we hear of the stories that people are navigating

(01:03):
different challenges, that they are enter into therapy, they're going
to counsel and they're receiving coaching and whatever that is
for you. There's many different modalities to heal. Therapy isn't
the only way, but I'm very aware that not everybody's
gonna go to therapy, but just maybe you can have
a therapeutic experience by one of these episodes. So today

(01:25):
I am honored to have a brother and developing a
growing friendship with someone that you all know that we
have listened to the songs that he has written and
to his many gifts that he's shared with the world. Listen,
the brothers won Grammys. The brother has done amazing things.

(01:46):
So I'm gonna let him introduce himself to this audience
none other than the great Rico Love brother.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
How you feeling Wait, Philly man, I feel incredible. I
felt really good, all right. So it's an honest thank
you man. It's an honored to be here. When we
first met, I was in a whole different space. So
it's it's dope for us to you know, link back
up in this space.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeo, man, listen, you listen. Everybody that get with Brettan's
one of two things that's gonna happen. And shout out
to Coach Brennan's who is our trainer. He works with
doctor Joe, He works with Rico Love. He works with
so many other phenomenal people. He works with me virtually,
you know, I mean, Brettan's either gonna as old folks said,
they gonna beat it at.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
You right what right, right right now. But it's been
an incredible journey. I was in a whole different space,
not just physically but mentally, so, you know, just that
transition and that growth is cool to kind of connect back.
It's like I started the journey with you, and now,
you know, further along in the journey, we get the.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Tradition man, and listen and let's let's let's dive into that.
But I want to go back because I always open
up the episode with the question to every guest in
this very moment, how are you feeling?

Speaker 2 (02:59):
I feel happy, and I haven't felt happy in a
long time.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
It's funny because I think the greatest compliment I've been
getting as of late is, bro, you look so happy,
or people are running to me, Man, I love the
journey on. You look so happy. So I feel genuinely happy,
you know, not the you know lee years later you
look back and say I said I was happy, but
I really was struggled. I really feel happy, you know,

(03:23):
regardless of things that happen and up to that whatever,
in this time, in this particular space I'm in right now,
I feel really happy.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Man. I'm so happy to hear that for you, Rico,
because if we are honest, we rarely hear black men
say those words I'm happy. We often hear brothers share
about how tired they are and how exhausted, how overwhelmed.
You often hear brothers share that they've had enough, they

(03:53):
don't want to be here anymore. And this week is
Mental Health Week. This is a week where we talk
about all things mental health. October tenth is World Mental
Health Day. And I'm just honored to sit down and
have this conversation with you on this week as we
are sharing your journey, and just to hear you not

(04:17):
only say that you're happy, but to look happy, because
you can feel happiness from someone's presence.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, I'm glad.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
I'm glad.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
That's very important to me. And for a long time
I was depressed and didn't realize I was depressed. So
I went through something called prolonged stress disorder. So what
happens is you wake up and you're tired, you sleep
eight hours and you're like, why am I so tired?
So what happens when you don't address some of the
mental pressures and the issues that you're dealing with. If
you don't address them, talk about it, get it out there.

(04:45):
We go through life as leaders, as people who are
the anchors and our fathers and you know, the bosses is,
for lack of a better term, we don't get a
chance to be sad and mope around. So we'll feel it,
but we don't really get to acknowledge it and express it.
So I'm moving through life like this right, and we'll
get to this later. But you can see it in

(05:05):
the odds though, and when you see if you look
back on old pictures, I'll say, oh, well, I could
see it in mine. But I was maneuving through life
and then I was realizing, I'm like, why am I
so tired? So I talked to my therapist. It's like,
it's a prolonged stress. So what you're doing is your
body is dealing with the stress that your mind is
not allowing you to deal with while you sleep, so
it's working to compensate. So now when you wake up,

(05:29):
you ready to go. Mentally, your mind is ready to go.
But your body is like, I've been working all night
on this stuff that you're going through and you won't,
you know, address. So what I feel is giving me
that push is and It'll be totally honest. I'm sleeping
a little less, but I'm feeling a lot more energy
because the hours spent on dealing with or being around

(05:50):
people who understand coping with certain things. Like I'm literally
one of my close friends now I'm dealing it's dealing
with something identical to but I was dealing with, but
in a different space, you know, in the spiritual world,
and I'm watching him deal with it, and I'm able
to be there for him in a way the same
way he didn't even realize he was there for me
when I was going through my thing. So it's cool, man,

(06:13):
It's really good. It feels really good to be able
to look at life and be so much more optimistic. Obviously,
challenges don't stop, but the optimism is a lot like
and I'm watching doors open and the opportunities to be
presented that I think were being held intentionally, you know,
by God to say not yet, and then as soon
as you know it was time. It was like the

(06:34):
floodgates open, and I think, but I was in a
happy space before those floodgates open. Be totally honest about it.
Wasn't like those things happened and I became happy. I
started becoming and feeling happy and feeling more confident and
feeling more optimistic. And as I started feeling those things
and telling myself that this is where I am and
deciding for myself what I want to be and how

(06:55):
I want to feel and what I want to look like,
then life started to change and it started to, you know,
become the pathway began to be happy because I became
I became happy man.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
And when you talk about pathways, and particularly in the
mental health space, we look at things and we look
at patterns through pathways. And I often tell clients when
I'm working with them, and when I was working in
the private counseling space and private practice, I would often
tell a client that no plane can land until the

(07:29):
pathway has been cleared. The runway is clear, and oftentimes
we want different outcomes and we haven't cleared the pathway
for new information, for new behaviors and new patterns to begin.
And one of the things that I saw with you
when we I think a few mornings that we all
worked out together, I can see that a new pathway

(07:53):
for you was community. Yeah, how important past brotherhood and community?
And before you respond, you would appreciate this. Interviewed Kirk
Franklin and he talked a lot about being in the
space of a producer and I thought about you, and
he talked about the isolation in it because when you

(08:14):
come out of sports, it's the fraternity, this community. But
he said, bro, I can't think about how many brothers
are gonna be like we built a fraternity because we
played the keys together or we were in band together.
So he says, oftentimes as a music producer and a
person that's sitting in a studio, it's lonely. So how

(08:34):
important was it for you to have community or did
you discover that? And was loneliness a prerequisite to your depression? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, so what that's super I'm glad you said that.
So it's not just the fact that I produce records.
It's the fact that I have a large group of
individuals that assigned to my company who I am responsible for.
Now these are grown men, yes, but I'm in business
responsible for them. So what does that mean? That means
that if we did six songs for this project, three

(09:07):
songs for this project, two songs for this project, and
now I have to go by the way, I've been
self managed for ten years, so I have to go
and chase down the money. Now I got to say,
they owe for this, they owe for this, they owe
for this day, over this. Now I got all these
people that I'm responsible for, and all right, his rent
is behind, he owed child support, he needed car, no payment,
he needed this. So before the money comes in, I

(09:29):
get bro, I know we got that check coming. I
was wondering if you confront me that because I need this.
So of course the impath in me is like, okay,
I got you, Bro, I got you. So now before
you know it, you look up and you're realizing that
you are carrying not only the weight of being responsible
for their careers doing well, but finance financially, you become

(09:51):
responsible and that's taxing. So there are certain spaces where
even if musically we feel well, we're not neces peers
musically because they are under the tutelage or the leadership
of my company. But it's more like, now I don't
feel like I can be alone with these same guys
who I should be able to be alone with, not

(10:11):
because it's some psychological that says, man, I'm dealing with
a lot. I can't let you see that because if
you do, I don't need you to lose faith. I
need you to be strong even when I'm going through it.
So that portion of the business is so difficult, and
a lot of people don't really even understand or care
that much. Now, there were some guys that that was
signed to me that we don't speak that much, and

(10:34):
then I find out they were feeling the way, and
I got a chance to run into one of them.
We had our conversation, and I will say he apologized,
but what I had to explain to him was listen, man,
the first thing I thought about every day when I
woke up was how I'm going to make sure that
you guys are okay. So when they hit the fan,
I felt like all you thought about was what didn't happen,

(10:57):
because most times people ignore what happened, all the good
things they always think about. Well, I wasn't able to
do this. Not Rico didn't make it able for me.
I wasn't able to do this. I fell behind this.
I lost my car, I lost my apartment. I had
to do this. I had to go through that. They
don't think about, well, look at all he's done for
me to help the situation. So that position of leadership

(11:18):
is extremely taxing. And I know when you Kirk said, yeah,
being a producer is a lonely space. Creatively, you got
to come up with all this stuff, but just being
a leader in that musical space is extremely difficult to navigate,
especially when you feel you know a lot of people.
And even even in saying that, there's some people that
were still Like, I've had people say to me, I
didn't ask you to do that, you know what I

(11:39):
mean when you said, well I.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Did that, How did that? Like, honestly, how did that
make you feel? Because we go through that as a
man a lot, we'll be doing, We'll be buying, we'll
be giving. I can remember dating this girl man and
I had, you know, I'm thinking, like, you know, I'm gonna,

(12:02):
you know, make sure she good.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
And she says, well, I didn't ask you to do that,
but she definitely took it.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Now she received it. And I think what messed with
me was even if you didn't ask me to do it.
There is a silent expectation that did you appreciate it? Though?
How did that make you feel when they said that
to you?

Speaker 2 (12:24):
So I felt, and I'm gonna be told you, I
had to say this to my therapist. I felt hate.
And that's the word we don't like to use in
our community because everybody your grandmother always told you you
don't hate nobody, right, And it's rid because my therapist
said to me, maybe about a year or two years ago, like, yeah,
you shouldn't hate anybody, but there's a feeling of hatred

(12:47):
that you have for people who have done you a
certain way, and until you face and acknowledge that, you
can't get over it. Now, that doesn't mean sitting it.
It means understand that feeling. Because if we deny the
feeling when we say no, no, right now, I have
an extreme level of because I had to sacrifice time
with my children. I had to sacrifice things that I

(13:08):
could have done for myself. There are things positions I
could be in in my career because but I had
to take the back seat because I wanted to make
sure everybody else is okay. So when somebody doesn't appreciate
that there's a level of rage and frustration that I
can only describe to you as hate. Right, So that's
initially what I felt. But one thing that I had

(13:28):
to get through and I had to get to was
understanding that whatever you do for somebody, after it's done,
throw it away. Throw it away like that, it's it.
Because the only currency that I valued for so long
was appreciation or you know, reciprocity, You know what I mean.
So when I started understanding that I can't cash, you know,

(13:52):
my check on your appreciation, what I have to do
is decide that, regardless of how you feel about it,
I did this because this is who I am. Now,
if I did it because I want the celebration, then
it's not genuine anyway. But a part of who I
am is I feel for people and I can't stand
to see somebody going through it, which is also why

(14:12):
it's difficult for me to ask for help, because I
don't want to put myself in a situation where anybody's
feeling that.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Way for me.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
So I think that understanding that I got to give
up whatever I'm going to give up because it's who
I am and recognize and that the reason why you
do that is because in your heart, you don't like
the feeling of watching somebody go through something and you
know you're in a position help. Now what happens is
you get to a space where you're not even no
longer in the position to help the way you were.
But because you think that that's your responsibility. That's how

(14:43):
the devil trick you out of your blessing, too, is
making you think that you're doing the right thing, not
realizing it's like I could take your wealth from you
by just putting a bunch of people in front of
you who need and then because you'll have this gift
in comment or this business in common, you think you're
doing God's work when I'm just here take from you anyway,
from a bunch of people who don't mean you know,
good anyway. So that's the thing I had to come

(15:04):
to terms with.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
So what I'm hearing is that you had You've had
to develop a high level of sagaciousness, the high level
of disarmament. When did you When did you get to
that space where you were able to discern those that
were there for you to help them and not just
helping them just because you guys had something musically or

(15:29):
creatively in common but acknowledging, like, you know what, I
can help them, but I can't in this season.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Somebody I love very much, my dear brother. He asked
me for something and I said, let me let me
pray about it, bro, And he said, man, if you
don't want to do it, just don't do it. Sorry,
you just answered it. I'm not doing it right. And
I still love him to this day. When you see this,
he gonna know you know what I mean. But I
love him dearly. But I said that, and God put

(15:57):
it on my heart to say let me pray a
by That was just his way of showing me, like,
you know, all right, bro, if you ain't gonna do it, man,
you don't got to do all that. I said, cool,
I ain't gonna do it, you know what I mean.
And I stopped hearing from him for a while, and
then he came back around and we brothers, you know
what I mean. It's like you fall out, you fight

(16:18):
your fist, fight with your brother, you know what I mean.
We that tight. So but I started to realize if
this is somebody I love dearly and I was led
to not help them, then that's when I started understanding
and seeing, Okay, it's okay for me to d the
nature of who I am says I want to give.
So I have to get past that natural, that nature nature.

(16:38):
There's a lot of things that are in my nature
that are right too, So I can't you know what
I mean? And we got to go into detail by
that stuff. But I thought about it. I'm like, Okay,
just because it's in my nature don't mean it's the
right thing to do. So I started understanding, like putting
things together, making it make sense. Am I supposed to
do this? And then I looked at my situation and

(16:59):
I said, they were things that I need to help.
What I didn't get help from. There were times I
had to lose homes, had to lose cars, had to
lose access, had to lose all these things, and I
was able to recover and maybe to change the way
I'm maneuver. Maybe this is their moment. Maybe I'm still
in that opportunity for them to lose something in order
to gain. So I had to start learning that and
maneuver and through that and asking myself the questions and

(17:20):
speaking to God about it. And every time the answer
comes from me is very It's pretty.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Envious, and I love that you said that maybe you
need to lose something. I think and you know, all
this is really a great blend. I was interviewing Devon
Franklin and we're talking about this film Ruth and Boass,
and I was breaking down. I had an opportunity to
see the film before the release, but I was thinking
about we often view losing as such a bad thing

(17:49):
when we can't get the deal, when we don't get
the relationship, we don't get the job, or there's a
part of us that is attached to this expected outcome.
And what I'm hearing from you is that we need
loss because I think there's a part of losing that

(18:09):
allows you not just to appreciate winning, but to actually
embrace the process of becoming before God restores you. For
you going through loss, houses, relationships, deals, At this space
that you're in right now, do you appreciate the process

(18:32):
of becoming who you needed to become in this moment
rather than looking at Man, I lost this and I
can't get it back.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, But even in just the more of a practical
human way, I started understanding that the things I thought
I needed, I don't need all right, I used to
spend one hundred thousand dollars a month on clothes, on shopping, right, Paul, Right, yeah, yeah,
and this sounds crazy, but I'm very serious.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Any and realized it until a woman who used to
work for me, she said it to me. She said
it to me in a kind of a heated exchange.
I was talking about when you spend one hundred thousand
a month on clothes like like going. So I lived
down the street from Bad Harbor, and so what I
would do is see this was my mentality. I thought,
I work hard, I'm a good person. I take care

(19:20):
the people around me, and I show up and I worked.
I booked out when I first got I got my
second big publishing deal. I booked out the Circle House
studio for two years. I just booked out the studios.
So all I did was work every day, even on Sundays.
I went to work every single day. So I thought
to myself on my way to work, it's okay if
I stopped by and grab some you know these valencies,

(19:42):
or grab this, you know this Louis Vuitton stuff for
all this hoodie or this thing that was my thing.
I grew up being made fun of for while I addressed,
and that's something I had to deal with in therapy
as well. So when I started buying an excess, I
started when I wasn't able to. Then I realized I
didn't need to. Now here's another example. I love cars.

(20:03):
So I had the Roseways RAF, I had the Rosewate Ghosts,
I had the LDRD. I had to escalate, and I
had all these cars and s FI and fifty all
in front of my house. I lost all of the cars.
And I remember being invited to an event that somebody
had an STK on the beach, and I remember I
couldn't afford to get there except in the Uber, the
regular uber. So I took an Uber like a Corolla,

(20:28):
like you know, beat up Corolla, and I told them
to drop me off at the Walgreens right on Collins,
down the street from the STK because I didn't want
to be seen getting out of this car. And when
I got out, I walked across the street. I went
into the event and a guy came to me and said,
oh my god, bro, he's such an honor man. You're
alleged and everybody won't greeting me. And he started taking pictures,

(20:50):
and I thought I didn't even need my rose voyce.
The gift I have is what they respect and they appreciate.
So when I was in position again, I didn't have
have the urge to spend one hundred Thabs in the month.
I didn't have the urge to buy a million cars
because I've realized that, Okay, then then let's go to
the women. I used to think that everywhere I go,

(21:12):
I needed to fly a shorty out. You know what
I mean, I gotta, I gotta. I'm in LA, I
need a joint with me. I'm going out here, I
need I'm going to London this week. I need to
make sure I got a joint with me. Then I
started realizing when I was in a position to do that,
to have those people around me, those women around me,
and I don't need to So I travel all the
time and oh I don't have anybody with me. I

(21:33):
don't have anybody in my bed just because they need
to be there or just because I felt like I
need some type of warm body in that space. So
now it's easier for me when it's time for me
to find the love of my life or have a relationship.
I don't feel like, you know, monogamy or being faithful
will be a difficult task anymore. Because I went so

(21:54):
long on my own as a single man, I got
every right to do whatever I want to do, right,
But now that I don't really need that to lean,
I don't do it just because it's made available to me.
So what happens is in a practical way, not just spiritual. Practically,
when you go through loss, you're able to understand that

(22:15):
I made it through all of these things without having
to do these things that I thought I had to do.
I think that's the change that had to happen for me.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
I'm just sitting there for a moment because you said
a lot, and you said a lot that was very profound,
I think. And I'm looking at this camera because brothers,
I want you to hear what he just said. Women,
I want you to listen to what he just said.
I noticed I said this. Hear it and listen. The

(22:46):
reason I want brothers to hear it, because I want
the brothers to activate their hearing listening is I want
women to activate the level of comprehension. He said. Being
in a space now where I am settled in who
I become to see. I want to go back to

(23:06):
the part where they was not bowing and honoring you
because of what you were getting out of. They were
honoring you because where God has placed in you. And
too many times we feel that we have to acquire,
and really it's in the inquiring. As I say, we're
doing too much acquiring and not enough inquiring what is

(23:28):
in me? And what I'm hearing you say is that
what God put in me was more than anything that
I could have purchased, because you can't purchase purpose yep.
And I love more so than anything, brother, the evolution
of who you are as a man. Yes, I know

(23:48):
you as a producer. We've listened to the music that
you've written for others. But my heart is filled with
joy because of where you're at right now. Is you're saying, man,
I don't need that anymore. And I often tell brothers,
and I want you guys to hear this, because this
is a very successful man, very successful black man. Just

(24:10):
because it's available doesn't mean it's permissible. What y'all catch that,
just because it's available, accessible, doesn't mean it's permissible. And
one of the things, brothers, if you're going to be
truly successful. And Stuart, what God has given you, you
have got to develop the discipline. Talk about that man

(24:33):
because I know for me and you are a single man,
and you know what I mean, we can be out there,
but for me, my thing is always like man. Again,
there's a part of our nature that what your nature
does not. But when you evolve beyond the title the things,
you get to see a different side of you.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
Also, the thing that really helps me is my fifteen
year old son. I have a fifteen year old son
and ten year old daughter. So these are two things
I always keep in mind. Everything that is exposed about
me on the internet, my son sees. And not only that,
when I go pick him up from school to kids,
he had a turn of lights on whatever Rico love right,
So when there are things that happen online, they go

(25:19):
and they tell him, oh, I've seen on your line,
your pops blah blah blah. So I'm very cautious to that.
Also my son. I've been single now for almost six years,
six years, little over six years, and my son has
not seeing women in and out of my bed, in
and out of my room. He hasn't seen you know,
as an example, that the setting for him. So I'm

(25:40):
very calcious that my daughter, of course not my big girl,
but my love son, my son, he doesn't have that.
He doesn't see, you know. But I'm very honest with
him about my past. We had a really good conversation
about this is where I was, you know, understanding like
when you get that wire, when you see you know,
ten twelve million dollars cash in the bank, you you

(26:02):
move different, you know when you when you you know
what I mean. You ride down the street, bro, and
then you and that rose Voyce and them joint that
you looked at and you and they just wave and
you're like what's up? And they're like what's up. It's
easy to fall from out. So I think the example
that I'm able to give him his key, it's paramount
actually in how I behave myself and the way I move,

(26:27):
and I even riding on the first date, I'll go
out it with a girl and and I know, now
this ain't nothing I need to be containing. Even if
physically I'm attracted to this person, or even if they're
making themselves available to me, I could be like, I
know that to say something that's you're going to have
longevity to it. Let me remove myself, and I'm very
and I think that the gift and the curse with

(26:47):
this is my patience is you know, the deal breaker
is hit quickly, right, How how.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Are you going? Forty two? I'm forty three?

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, yeah, bro, Instantly as soon as it you know,
as soon as I see any level of irrational, Like
if I can tell that we have we could be
talking about sports, if I could see that you can't
be moved, not because of the facts, but because how
you feel about something. Oh no, I know that I
can already tell this ain't gonna be it right so instantly. Now,

(27:18):
the problem with that is sometimes I think to myself,
maybe I should have gained shortly a chance because you're knowing,
like there's certain things that I'll tell you be very
blatantly deal breakers for me, instantly irrational behavior if they're
in any way we having a conversation, I can see
that you're not being rational and logical. As soon as

(27:39):
that emotion starts getting too high to where you know
what I mean?

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Is that a sign that she is emotional and competent?

Speaker 2 (27:47):
I don't even know. I can't even go there. I
just say this I'm just gonna say this as soon
as I think it'll be difficult for me to explain
logic to you. Now, I'm not gonna never question how
you feel about something. So that's the thing we have
to be clear about. We cannot control how you feel.
And that's why I hate when people say, well, women

(28:07):
are more emotional. No, men and women are equally emotional,
because emotion is not something that you can decide. How
something makes you feel is how it makes you feel
the difference between a man and women is this. I
know and realize that through life. Life has taught me
that if I do something instantly, I will have to

(28:29):
pay for that thing if I go into And that's
why when it comes to altercations, it takes men a
little bit longer, right yo, bro Chill is okay? You
know why because I know that a lot of things
can happen. I put my hands on you, put my
hand your hands on me. One I can go to jail.
You could pull out a gun and shoot me. I
can pull out a gun and shoot you. Then every

(28:49):
time I see you, I know it's an issue. Then
I gotta deal with you. Know. It's so many different
things that we have to think about. That's why when
you see situations where a woman might begining to it
and she might slap a guy and everybody just watch
on slap slap, and as soon as he hit her,
they're like, what are you doing about? And it's like, bro,
you just watched because in their mind these are not
this is not supposed to happen to me. Right. So,

(29:12):
emotion is something that it's universal. There is no person
that is more emotional or less emotional. How we respond
to those emotions dictate who we are in our behavior.
That's why we call guys who respond irrationally b a
n's You know what I mean, because you acting like

(29:33):
this is not how a man is supposed to respond
as a man. I know that, no matter how this
thing makes me feel, I cannot behave this way now now,
so let's get back to my point. What I'm saying
is when I deal with a woman in any space,
once I start to see that there is no reasoning
with her. Again, I cannot tell you how to feel,

(29:55):
but I just want to be able to walk. I
want to be able to have a conversation with a
woman and walk her through. Okay, I know you feel
this way. But can you look at this and see
this is an apple? So this is an orange?

Speaker 1 (30:06):
You know, why is that so important to you?

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Just historically I found myself in situations where I was
beating myself up because I was trying to get people
or somebody to understand that even if this happened, this
is not the case anymore, or this is what this is,
And let's function on what's the truth and what's real
and not how Now let's address how we feel about it,
because that's the only way. Remember, I have prolonged stress

(30:31):
disorder because I wasn't addressing what I feel about it.
So it's not an issue what we can't address how
we feel about things, but after we feel them, after
we've addressed it, now what's next? Now, what's next? That's
why anytime there was any conversation, I lead with what
I did wrong. I lead with that. So even if
I'm in therapy, I'll talk to the therapist about what

(30:51):
I think I did wrong first, not because I'm trying
to beat you and so you don't get to take
I'm trying to say because I'm trying to show that
I'm ready to go to what's next. So I'm not
trying to sit here for three hours. Do you pride
to me what I did wrong? I want to expose
what I did wrong. So now the next step is
what where do we go from here? But if we
spend three hours talking about trying to pry ou of you,

(31:13):
what's the problem, what's you did? And what do you no? No,
I want to talk about what I did, and then
I want to talk about what something else, how something
else made me feel. I don't want to talk about
what somebody else did. I want to talk about how
whatever this situation is made me feel. That way, I
can focus on the things that's next. This is what
I'm responsible for, and this is how this thing made
me feel. I acknowledge that sometimes my actions might have

(31:36):
caused the person to feel like they had to respond
in this way, but acknowledging that is the first step.
And now then responding to me in this way made
me feel this way, And I'm allowed as a human
to feel something regardless of what happens. To get back
to it, not to get too far from the tangent.
The point is that I'm trying to make you when
I'm sneaking, when I'm speaking to rich a woman, or

(31:57):
any business dealing or any type of situation I'm dealing
with a person I always pay attention to, is this
person capable of understanding that, yes, you feel this, but
what is next? Or that doesn't negate the facts of
the matter just because we feel something. And I think
that that is gift and the curse because I've cut
off immediately some people that may have been, you know,

(32:20):
at best good friends because all this was termed off instantly.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
I think for where we are, especially in this age
rain early forties, I don't have kids. You have two kids,
and I think we've lived enough life and then too,
we've done the work as men and as we're still
working where we have a level of emotional intellect that

(32:45):
many people and I'm want to go there, you know,
and I've said this before, I don't think a lot
of women are as emotional, intellectual or intelligent as they
think that they are, because they're motion is the driver primarily.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
And it's only they will hear you say intelligent and
then take events to that and so media and here's.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
And I'm gonna and again I'm gonna put my clinical
hat on the lack of intelligence does not mean that
you're not educated, because you can be educated and still
not be intelligent. But to understand emotional intelligence is to
understand not only just what you feel, but what do

(33:29):
you do with what you feel? Where now, what you
feel is not that the driver in your decisions. So
I can now hear how you feel, share what I feel,
and they both can hold space where we get understanding.
But when it gets to a space where all we're
focused on is what you feel about what I share,

(33:51):
We're not gonna get anywhere. Listen, I feel you, brother,
because I've been in relationships where I would share these
are my thoughts on what has happened, and I'm wanting
to bring this to your attention, and generally what has
happened to me is once I have shared, in turn,

(34:16):
I get how they feel about what I share about
what happened. So now I gotta hold space for how
they feel about what I said.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
I got, I would get Yeah, but you did this
to me back in the day, you know what I mean.
So that was a difficult thing. So what it makes
it difficult for you to even want to share? So
because yes, and also I went through a long period
of feeling like I deserve things, you know what I.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Mean, and deserve things like in a.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Bad way, in a bad way, in a bad way.
So what happened is when you are constantly like so,
you start feeling like you're not allowed to feel things
even though they're happening in real time, and when you
do feel them, instead of being a but to say, man,
I'm sorry you feel that way, it's like, now, let
me remind you what you did in two thousand and
then nine. Let me tell you what you did. So
it started feeling like, oh, man, so I'm really you know,

(35:11):
I'm gonna be paying for this stuff for a long
time and not understanding like no, no, no, you are.
At that time, I wasn't doing the therapy. But when
I started really diving into therapy and really started understanding
the work that I that had to be done that
I'm still doing, I'm in no way complete because I'm
still angry at about a lot of things. I just

(35:31):
have the tools to tools to be able to respond
to react to those things that I feel. But I
started I started really understanding like, no, bro, it's okay,
like you you can feel these things. It's okay for
you to feel even if I explained it like this,
if I committed a crime, and in two thousand and nine,

(35:51):
I committed a crime, and I went to jail for
this crime. Right, so I robbed somebody's house in two
thousand and nine, I go to jail from two thousand nine.
In twenty and fourteen, twenty fourteen, I come home and
somebody robs my house and I called the police. Imagine
if I called the police and say, ah, no, bro,
you remember you had robbed somebody house back and on nine, yeah, yes,

(36:13):
because you did that, we can't come and we can't
protect you from the robbery on your house. And that's
what it's made. That's how you feel. But but then
you start realizing, yeah, but I did my time for that,
So why did I even do the time? If you
all so, then now the trick is you start thinking, well,
maybe I shouldn't acknowledge when I do something because I'm
still gonna always have to pay for it anyway, you

(36:35):
know what I mean. So what I try to do
as heavy, right, But what I try to do is
I start realizing, like, oh, that's not my problem. If
this person is holding your house to shit, that that's
something that these people got to deal with. So, you know,
it's one of those things where I started to realize

(36:55):
that immediately, if anything reminds me of that, I got
to remove myself immediately. And then again, I don't know
how good or bad that is. It can be good,
but I think that it takes it took away to
grace and it probably you know, I know one woman
in particular who's probably watching this thick and you cut
me off after one little thing, and I'm like, yeah,

(37:18):
I feel bad that she was. She was a vibe too,
and ain't lines from the vibe she got, bro, she
got the she got the talking that like, oh man,
I started feeling like I was in another you know
you like I've been in this I've been in this
place before.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
I don't want to be here. I feeling like that,
get me up out of here. Bro, Uh huh, this
ain't gonna happen. It probably surety probably you know what
I mean, yo, Man, Bro.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Our lives are so parallel, man, because I've had the
same thing where it's like, you know, you meet somebody
and it's like you know you you you listen to
the things that they're saying saying, and man, it be pulled.
But then there's a part of me that when something
is pulling me, I've resisted because I need to know
what is behind the pool, what is behind them, what

(38:10):
is behind the pool? Is there an agenda? Is this
an organic pool? Is this a natural poor pool? Or
is this a manufactured pool or a pool that's manipulated?
That once I get you in here, boh, my, take
off the veil and the whole bait and switch that
thing right there, man, because when you begin to grow,

(38:33):
and we've grown in links that most men don't, because
I talked to a lot of brothers in their forties
and a lot of them are still stuck in the twenties.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
And I got childhood friends like that, and a lot.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Of women are encountering these guys. So to run into
a brother like us who are not perfect, but we
have done work, and we are doing the work continuously
and as a part of us. That gives us a
different set of lenses that I'm not looking just from
how fine you are, that's great, I'm not looking at
just from how the hair is flowing and all of this,

(39:09):
and and I like the vibe, but it's gotta be
more than a vibe. Because in this season, it's gotta
be something that I can yoke up to that's gonna
take me even further so, and that's the difference making
so man, I feel you because as you were saying that,
I'm like, man, I'm thinking about it. Shored it that
I was just like, yo, it was a vibe, but
I was just like, man, I don't know what's behind it.

(39:30):
And then I feel if I stay too long, it
may be too captivating. And I look up and I
wake up and I'm in the liver's loud.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah. And also that once I see playing on the
internet again, instantly, I don't care if you're on here
talking about your mother and you you vinting about your mother.
You went through it, your.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Mother, Oh yeah, that's a red flash.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Playing too much on it like that. Let's get away
from this. Once you start playing on that internet, Oh no.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Because you already know what's gonna happen if it don't
work out. What what?

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Let me tell you something. I don't care what you're
going through. I was at the nail salon today and
the girl, oh no, no, no, And I've been through
that where you sty'd be like, why you don't know
uh caption, girl, you gotta go. I can't do it.
It's just too much because you live in too much.
Let the moment be the moment. Some things it's fun
to share. Some dancer is cool. But once you start

(40:21):
getting into personal conversations that you have with your aunt
and your sister and now you and the now we
got pages and pages on your story full of the
oh story. As soon as they say story time, I'm
my head on out, he said, I'm head out.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
I ain't gonna hold you, bro, But I tell you, bro,
what I tell you and meal so much in life, bro,
Like I tell CJ, I say, Bro, anybody that I'm interested.
I watched their social media? Yeah yeah, I watch how
they post. I watch what they post. And I'm not
saying I'm judging you by that, but.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
I'm judging me. I'm judging how I'm gonna respond to react,
like how I put myself in this situation of now
what happens when it's me?

Speaker 1 (41:03):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Once you start getting too or or instant name calling,
like when I you know, I saw a girl was
so cool and then once she got upset about something,
she called me a name. You know, what I mean,
like not a curse word name, but one of those names,
one of those psychology names, you know what I'm saying.
So once it got into that, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, no,

(41:25):
we're not doing that now, we can't do that or
you know. So I'm just really careful about those things.
And another situation. I think I was in this situation
and it was a girl I really liked. We had
a good time, we were getting to know each other.
She was the closest, I think, probably one of the
closest women I had been to. And what I knew
that she didn't know. I knew was that a guy

(41:46):
I knew, a rapper friend of mine, had dealt with
her some years before, and usually that'd be like, nah,
I can't do that because it's just too close to home,
it's too weird. But Shorty was so cool that I
didn't even tell her that I knew that this happened.
But when I started really locking in, I'm liking her.
I'm like, you know what, I think I'm gonna deal

(42:06):
with Shorty. I like her, you know, I'm gonna bring
her around. I like this girl, but she needed some
help financially, so I think to myself. You know, I
think I'm want to help her.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
I like her.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
I think I'm gonna help her, but I got to
make sure before I help her. So what I did
was as reached out to my homie and I said,
I just need you to shoot at her a little bit.
Let's see if she's still a bike because I'm thinking
she might not. You know, she might not be what
I think it is. So so I told him, I said,

(42:37):
I want you to just start texting her and seeing
what's up. How she responds. So one day I say,
she's at my house right now, I want you to
text her. Now. I'm sitting on on my you know,
island in the kitchen, and she's sitting on my couch.
I'm positioning she's sitting here, and I tell him just
text her because I wanted to make sure I wasn't
I was away from her. She's caddy corner to where

(42:57):
she's facing me, her back to me, so she's on
her phone. So I said to him, just text up
where she at and that you want to see her.
You want to pull up on her. And he said,
where you at? I'm trying to see you, and she said,
I'm down in Brickle at my friend's birthday dinner. So
he screenshot and sending it back to me. I'm just

(43:17):
acting normal. I'm just like And then I said, tell
her you want to pull up You're about to pull
up to Armburn. No, no, no, it's a private dinner,
and blah blah blah. Well you know, I said, well,
tell her you want to see her this week? When
she got some time, you know what I mean, you
want to I want to see you this week. Then
I say, okay, let's make it happen. So now I'm like, okay,

(43:38):
I got what I need. So I couldn't just cut
it off. I had to still be around. But after
what I did was I stopped acknowledging her entertaining me,
helping her financially, because I knew that was going to
be the thing that pushed her way anyway, because she
was in a real bond. But I thought to myself,
I know I can't trust this. So now now let's
go back to my theory. My therapist says, so you're

(43:59):
doing for people and you're expecting this thing in return,
and when you don't get that, that loyalty, that appreciation,
the reciprocity you not. You know you've got a problem
with that and it's affecting you. So I knew in
that space this is affecting me. If I help this

(44:20):
girl and I know what I know about her, it
will affect me. So I just start responding about anything
that had to do with helping her when she cut
me off.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
So I like what your therapist shit said. But I
think it's bifurcated. I think it's two parts. I think
that there's a part, yeah, the helping and the reciprocity.
But I also think that as we are in women
are encouraged girl, listen to your gut feeling. We often
don't tell men to listen to their insight. I believe

(44:54):
men have insight, women have intuition. We can feel women
can feel it, but we can and see it. There's
a part of you that saw something. Yeah, hep on something.
Oh so again I gotta stay in his vein because
because yes, it will affect you that you're doing, but

(45:14):
it will affect you even more when you go against
what you saw and not saying that you saw it.
But there's the insight that I believe that God gives
men when we tap into who we really are that
you now begin to listen to what you see. And
I remember Rico at a time where I was picking

(45:35):
up certain things and God kept challenging me. He says,
why do you keep igning what you're seeing? And I'm
gonna tell you where it came from. Men, we're not
taught to trust ourselves because we're often conditioned that you're
a liar. Oh yeah, So if you hear that men cheat,
men do this, men do that, you don't believe anything

(45:56):
about yourself. And you can have the answer to what
you have been praying about, and you won't believe it
because you've been conditioned to believe that you carry nothing
that's good. When God has given you something and said
I want to show you this, I want to reveal
this to you, and I believe that is what you
was picking up. And the revelation was like, let me
dig deeper. Yeah, because it was the part of you

(46:19):
that was sensing something like something is off. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
I think that that's very true. Now that as you
say that, it makes a lot of sense. I have
this thing where and I want to get your take
on this. My therapist told me that, you know, you
got to release a lot of those things. So once
a person is dishonest to me in any way, I
have this thing where I record everything every conversation I
have with them. Either I save the text message or
I won't have a conversation with them unless I recorded

(46:47):
from another phone. Now, somebody I love a lot passed away.
And when he passed away, he passed away with people
believe in a lie about him, and he had information
to prove that this wasn't true, but he died, which
still says he people believed this lieb them. And so
my therapist told me release that stuff, like you hold
on to all this stuff, and I just can't. I
can't let it go. Not that I you know, I

(47:09):
don't want to expose anybody online. I don't want to
take it and I don't play with anybody, but it's
like a reminder of myself, like this wasn't true. And
I kept trying to explain to you know, to explain
to him, like yo, look, it's not that I want
to share. I just this is a reminder that I
was being true, this is not what was happening. Because

(47:29):
so many times, if we're told something so much, we'll
start to am I tripping am I really a bad person,
but I didn't This is not because you know, this
is not what was said. This is what was saying,
and this is what happened, and this thing happened. So
I kind of compiled all this proof, this evidence, and
it's something about me that is I'm almost afraid to

(47:50):
erase it and get rid of it because.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
I don't think. I don't think you need to release it,
because I also think part of it for you is
it's a reassurance that not only are you who you
are as a person, but there's a part of you
that needs to be reminded of what is truth.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
I need that, I really do. And so even if
I'm the only person exactly who knows that I'm okay, I.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Don't agree that you need to release that. I so
to be even more transparent. I was talking to a
friend of mine this morning and I went into depth
about having a miscarriage with my ex and I said,
and she was like, well do you think I said.
My therapist said to me, I don't think that you

(48:41):
have to let that go. But the impact that it
had on me is no longer there, but there's a
part of it that's still in my memory because of
the scene between me and my ex at that time,
and it wasn't a bad scene, it's just what I
saw in that moment. I'm not able to let that
image go now. I don't file that image to replay

(49:05):
the trauma or to replay the tapes. I file that
image because there is a level of compassion and a
level of empathy that I felt in that moment that
I don't want to ever leave me, And so I
don't think that everything needs to be released. I think
some things need to be in a compartment where it

(49:25):
sort of stabilized you in some ways. It's almost like
when people say, well, I don't think you should keep
remembering your suicide, I said, why not. I think part
of me talking about it and surviving it is also
what keeps me living. So what keeps you resting in

(49:48):
that you are becoming and resting in the truth of
who you are is the fact I know this. So
when you listen to the tape, or when you play
the tapes back, or how read it is for you,
I think there's also a moment to reassure you that
you know what, man.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
I wasn't tripping, Yeah exactly. Yeah, I'm glad you answered that.
I felt that strongly in my heart, and I think
I would encourage people when you go in into therapy.
A lot of times people think that the therapist is
right and you're there to give you answers. I think
that it's just an educated response to what you're dealing with.

(50:26):
Now you have to make a decision whether or not
you believe or you agree with those things. But it's
just a human man. And you know what blew my
mind was when I showed my therapist out. It wasn't
even my therapist, a therapist I know, and he was
out at a club trying to talk to a girl.
And I was like, he just a guy, you know
what I mean. Like, I was like, and he wasn't

(50:47):
my therapist, but I was just like, he's just a guy. Okay,
So we can go back and forth. He's just a
guy who can speak to me on a level and
can kind of help me see things from different perspectives.
But I'm so glad that I am who I am
because I was able to not agree with that, you know, perspective,
and respectfully, I know my therapist watch but respectfully I

(51:09):
love them. You're my guy, But I respect and what
you just said not in the way that you just
said it, but your sentiment is exactly why I said.
I'm like, no, I need to hold onto this because
this keeps me because if you constantly are hearing these
things about you and you know that that's not the
truth of who I am, and nobody else around me
has had that experience. And I know that this. I

(51:30):
know the way I love my children. I know that
who the father I am. I know the friend I am,
I know the leader I am, I know the giver
I am. I know I think about others first before
I think about myself. I know that I don't you know,
I don't have to make things about me, or I'm
okay to listening when somebody's talking, and I'm okay to
be wrong, I'm okay to apologize. So all those things
is almost helping reassure. Like, No, I notice it because

(51:51):
because over time you start believing something. And my father,
who I called when we were sitting here, I got
on the phone. I called my dad and I just
asked him for permission to share some of his background
because he helped He's helped me so much. So. My
my grandmother just passed away, and my father had a
very difficult relationship with my grandmother. My grandmother growing up

(52:13):
with you know, wake my dad up out of sleep
three in the morning. You gotta go to school in
the morning, and say, go downstairs, give me some cigarettes.
You know, my dad's from Harlem, live in the East
River Projects, one hundred and third First Avenue, so she'll say,
and then on the seventh floor, like, get get up,
go give me some cigarettes. I to sleep, you know
what I mean. My grandmother my father just shared with me.

(52:34):
He said, sometimes I want to wash the dishes, but
it takes me time because I have this anger that
comes with it because I remember when the dishes would
pile up and I would overhear my my youngest siblings
saying I watched the dishes, and my mother would say, Noah,
richer to watch. You know what I mean, Like, you know,
he didn't eat one thing. Everybody ate, but just that thing.

(52:55):
So I asked my dad, I said, uh, how did
you become so loving? You grew up in a My
dad told me. My grandfather passed away as well, and
my dad told me that he was so miserable living
with my grandmother and one day, he went to his father. See,
my dad is from Harlem and my grandfather lived in
the Bronx, so if anybody know New York, it's not
that far away. So he went to his grandfather. He

(53:18):
went to his father, my grandfather and said, Dad, please, like,
I just don't. I can't live with her. Please just
let me move in with you.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
It'll just be me.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
And my grandfather said to my dad no, and it's said, oh,
because I got a wife and I got a new
thought and I got that. He said, nope, nope, nope.
So I asked my dad. Because my father is the
most loving man I know, the most honest, pure and heart.
I've been in situations where I know my dad could

(53:48):
have just lost his mind on somebody, and he took
always the kind route right. And I've never heard him
utter a bad word about a person, you know what
I mean. I've never seen my dad raise his voice
to a woman. I've never seen him call a woman
out of her name. I've never seen him. I've seen
him go through things in private, and he shared with

(54:10):
me because he wanted me to know. But his response
to it. My dad is a minister, by the way,
so his position would cause for him to have to
deal with a lot. Anybody who knows true ministry and
knows what it means to be a pastor of a church,
there's a lot of board members and trustees and this
and now then you got to answer to a lot
of things. But he always handled things with such sophistication

(54:32):
in class. And I asked him, not two weeks ago, Dad,
how do you love the way you love? Because the
reason why I love my children is because the way
that my parents love me. My mother and father are
two of the most like. We are fetched, we love,
we hug each other. I kissed my mother on her forehead,
on the cheek today before I came here, Like that's

(54:52):
how I am. My family flies here being a single dad.
My family will fly here to watch my children. When
I have to travel. My family and my sisters are
on with me, like, you know, we are fos like that.
So I asked my dad. And because I know my mother,
you know, my mother had a huge family, and my
mother grew up in church and she did. My dad

(55:13):
didn't grow up in church. My chrad didn't grow up
in a loving environment, you know. So I asked him
where did he get that from and he said to me,
I knew what I wanted to feel, and I want
to give you and your sisters what I wanted to feel.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
And I thought about that so much in it and
I admire him so much because I didn't realize throughout
these years my dad was loving action. You know, a
lot of people can say, they can tell you love,
they can write down love. My dad was love and
action an embodiment of love and the vulnerability. My dad
kissed me on my forehead when I was a kid,

(55:49):
you know, give me a hug, you know, and when
I started I still you know, my son when he
walks into the house, he walks up and gives me
a hug. My son six foot two and you know,
give me a hug, and before he goes to bed
Ley Pop. That's how I am with my dad. And
I thought to myself, I know why I'm that way.

(56:11):
I know why I tell my daughter she's beautiful a
hundred times a day until I love her a million
times a day because I saw my father doing that
to my sister. And you know, so it is interesting
how we create these you know, these things. And I
always want to know where where you know, it came

(56:32):
from an absence of it, which put birthda in me,
and now I give it to my children and I
would hope that it continues, but they are you know,
my father is just everything, and I just needed I
would be remiss to find and just point that out
because I'm watching all the things he had to go
to and it reminds me that just because you're dealing

(56:53):
with this, doesn't me have to respond in this way,
because he could have easily had to responded in ways
that you know, my uncle passed, that's the way as well.
His younger brother, you know, abused drugs, It was abusive
towards women, was in the streets, heavy was you know.
And if you looked at my father's life and if
he would have went the same way, nobody would have

(57:14):
been would argue it. They'll say it makes sense, like
look at the way you grew up and and to
see him be that way despite never feel in love.
From as far as I know, my dad is not
a more womanized as far as I know, you know
what I mean, And I became one, you know what
I mean, And in a sense of being very promiscuous

(57:38):
and not being able to be faithful. In a relationship
for so long, and and I look at him, and
like looking at he had every reason to be that
way as well, you know, and all of the great
things that I am I got from him, and either
things that I don't have so great I didn't get

(58:00):
from him, you know what I mean. And not to
take away from my mother contribution, but as two men talking,
I think it's a very appropriate and important for me
to highlight my dad. And I love that you did, man,
because he is man just the epitome of honor, you
know what I mean. Obviously it's he's a human. And
there was some woman watching this right now, like what

(58:23):
you don't know that, But I'm just saying, like when
I could see from my whole life, I just looked
at him as a man of valor, of honor, of grace,
you know, grace, especially the grace that he has for people,
considering how he was raised, is admirable.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
No, brother, I just want to say thank you for
sharing that. As you were talking, I was a reminder
of the story of the two brothers, that dad was
an alcoholic, and the two brothers who grew up in
the household, same experience, same father, different outcome because one
of the brothers said, my dad was an alcoholic, so

(59:06):
I became an alcoholic. And the other brother said, because
my dad was an alcoholic, I decided not to be
an alcoholic. So the decision that your father made I love.
What he shared is that he wanted he knew how
he wanted to feel, and because he wanted to feel love,

(59:26):
he learned love and became love to give love. And
now you're doing the same thing. Brother. I just want
to say I'm proud of you as a man, as
a brother, the growth, the evolution man, the wisdom that
you acquire again. And I wanted this interview because what

(59:51):
I like for people to see on this platform, and
particularly when I have people of influence enough status, I
want them to see the human. I want them to
see the her person. I don't want them to see
what Rego love has produced, what he's written to all
those different things. I wanted them to see you because
I remember where you started at I and I can
see the look that you have in your eyes now.

(01:00:13):
It's so different from that morning in the gym. You
know what I mean, and even the weight lost journey
that you you know that you that you dropped the weight,
and when I met Brenni's it was the same thing
for me. I met Brennan's at the top of this
year in February, really in February, yeah, wow, Yeah, met
him in February when Joel had the first Good Brother

(01:00:34):
event and I came down because after being on tour
for three years, bro I picked up so much weight, depressed,
had a mental breakdown last November, developed VERTI grow a vertigo,
all these different things. And when I met Brenni's, Man,
I started this journey because like yourself, Man, I would

(01:00:56):
say that I had the similar thing. I would go
to sleep and wake up tired because I was healing
men and getting on stage and helping men open up.
But then that was my body wasn't resting because my
body was working. And so you know, when our bodies
are working, you're in a fight or flight mode your
quarters all this time, you're gonna hold on the weight.

(01:01:16):
You're not gonna be to shift, you're not gonna beby
to change, and you can work out and you can
eat right, and it's not gonna work until you begin
to flush out. And so it's just been beautiful to
see Man and I watch you in Brandan's workout, man,
and I'm encouraged for you, man, And I just wanted
to tell you in this moment, Man, I'm so proud
of you. Man, dank you. You get to see this

(01:01:37):
different version of Rico love beyond what the world see.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
So brother, I just want to say thank you for
sharing space and sharing your time. As we close. Man,
I ask every guest this question, man, about healing. What
is healing for you?

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Man? For me, healing is except thing and all right,
when there's a when there's a wound, there's a wound.
It's just it's open and this part of this flesh
and this part of the flesh don't want to accept
the fact that they supposed to be together because this

(01:02:16):
gash is in the middle of it. So what healing
is is once that wound closes and that part of
the flesh reconnects with this part of the flesh, it
accepts that this this thing happened, because sometimes the scar
is going to always be there from that gash, from
that wound. So we're not saying that this never happened.
I'm accepting them that this happened. But I've decided that

(01:02:37):
this thing is not going to stay open. I'm gonna
expose it. So to me, very simply put, that's what
healing is for me accepting that these things happened, that
they're not going to change. They're going to be things,
remnants of those scars that are going to always exist.
I can coco but of that thing up, but there's
going to be something there that's going to consistently. Everybody

(01:02:59):
got that little little bury on they knee right there
from when he was a kid. It reminds them and
they remember when they got it fell off the bike.
But what it says is I'm gonna acknowledge that this
thing happened, but I'm not gonna allow this thing to
stay open and continue to fester them poisoning, because as
long as I pick at that wound, it'll never heal
it so and it'll close up and then it'll get
worse and it'll spread. And now I go from having

(01:03:20):
just a cut to having to have to amputate the
whole leg because I allowed this thing to poison. So
I think that healing is just acknowledging that this thing
happened and recognizing that it doesn't have to Despine who
I am and I can move forward and have a
you know, a little token of that to remind me

(01:03:41):
of it, but I'm not gonna live in it. That
wound is closed now I'm healed or I'm healing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Listen. I know you produce music, but brother, you might
need to go on speaking to us because you just
gave a word. Listen. I just want to say this
episode has been enriching, enlightening and also impactful just in
my own journey, and I'm so grateful for my brother
and friend Rico love sharing his journey of healing, sharing

(01:04:10):
his great wisdom, and then just sharing just his presence.
You know, I'm always honored when I'm able to sit
down and talk with men, because you don't see this
often where men are sharing at such a high level.
And I just want to say again to my brother,
thank you man. I'm proud of you, and congratulations on

(01:04:30):
your journey. Man. And for those that are watching again,
subscribe to Just Heal Doctor j Subscribe to it on
the Spotify Black Effect, also on iHeart. Every Tuesday we
drop a new episode audio and visually, and I'm just
so grateful for this platform and I want to encourage
you to continue your journey. Wherever you are, you may

(01:04:53):
be contemplated, like doctor, I really want to go to therapy?
Do I really want to talk about some stuff that
has happened years ago. Everybody won't go to therapy, but
just maybe you come across this episode with a Rico
love and it encourages you to go to therapy, or
encourages you to start doing some exploring and become curious,
because healing requires a level of curiosity. And until then,

(01:05:18):
remember healing is a journey and wholeness is the destination.
Just here with Doctor J, a production of the Black
Effect podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. And you can follow me at King J.
Barnett on Instagram and x and follow us on YouTube.

(01:05:41):
Just Heal, Doctor J.