James Dickson guest host (910AM) 12-6-24

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Now I know what you're thinking.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
You're thinking, who is this guy and what did he
do with Justin Barclays. And I'll be honest, if it
was six oh six and I was listening, I'd be
asking the same question.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
As a kid.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
I used to watch WWE Superstars on Saturday mornings, but
the worst was when I turned on the TV, turned
on Fox two at the time, and they were running
Babar instead the Elephant. So I admit I am not
Justin Barclay, but my goal today is to not be
Babar either. My name is James David Dixon. I'm a journalist,

(00:43):
I'm a podcaster. More importantly, i'm your neighbor. By the
grace of God, Justin's had me as his guest many
times on this show, though my voice is new to
those of you who listen at the six o'clock hour.
For twenty years, ever since I stumbled down from the

(01:04):
Mary Markley dorm at U of M to the Michigan
League as a freshman to join the Michigan Review, I've
been in this game of writing and speaking out and
just making your voice heard. And so at this point,
twenty years later, I've been a reporter an editor, a columnist,

(01:24):
a podcaster, given speeches, and now we're doing radio. I've
worked at the Detroit News for a decade. Mackinaw Center,
New York Post was just there covering the twenty twenty
four campaign. I'm forty and it feels like life is
honestly just beginning. I'm your neighbor, and it feels like

(01:46):
things are just changing. But that's enough about me. Now
I'd like to talk about another one of our neighbors,
and a man who wants to be our governor. I
want to talk about the mayor of Detroit. I want
to talk about Mike Duggan. So, as you may have heard,
it was pretty big news in Michigan. Mike Duggan, the

(02:08):
mayor of Detroit and a lifelong Democrat, is going to
run for governor.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
But then there's a twist. There's always a twist.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Duggan's not running as a Democrat, He's running as an independent.
Duggan's choice and the loss that Democrats just booked in
twenty twenty four since the clearest signal you could take
the Democrat brand is damaged. Think about that Trump ad

(02:38):
that caught everyone's attention this fall Kamala is for they them,
Trump is for you. To my estimation, this was the
best political ad in sixty years. You see Kamala next
to a man in a wig who's about seven feet tall,
and you see the oddity of our times, but especially

(03:01):
of what the Democrats have become. Then I think about
our governor Gretchen Whitmer. This is a woman who always
thinks that abortion is on the ballot. And this is
a woman who tried to convince Joe Biden and Kamala
Harris to walk down that very same path. And when
they followed her there, what did they find? They found

(03:23):
that the same tactic doesn't just work. There's no perfect
play in football, in politics, or in life. Everything is
situation specific. But Whitmer and her ignorance and her arrogance,
thought she could keep pressing the abortion button and Democrats
could keep pressing the abortion button, and they could say
the same thing they've said the last fifty years, which

(03:46):
is that abortion was on the ballot. Under Joe Biden,
a close friend of Mike Duggan, Democrats let in millions
of illegals. Our Attorney General Dana Nessel opposes mass deportation.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Of these illegals.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
The only thing closest, the closest thing to a response
that the highest law enforcement officer in Michigan has mentioned
is that you should play Christmas music on your porch
so as to deter porch pirates. Except she doesn't call
it Christmas music because that'd be offensive, right, So I
think she called it holiday music.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
But that was her big plan. It's not we're.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Going to keep you safe, We're going to arrest people
when they do wrong. It's on you to keep yourself safe,
and your only weapon of choice is Christmas music. Maybe
her thinking is that Christmas music is as offensive to
porch pirates as it is to herself personally.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
And so.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
It's not hard to see why a straight white male
would look around and say there's no place for me
in the twenty twenty four Democrat party. And given how
few lessons Democrats have learned from this election, it's probably
going to be worse by twenty twenty six when the

(05:09):
election happens. And so if Republicans of the past called
themselves as offering a choice, not an echo, you could
say Dugan is offering a choice, not a weirdo. And
so Duggan is making a big gamble that you're so

(05:31):
sick of the Democrats, You're so sick of their obvious
ruin of the country, You're so sick of their waste
of taxpayer resources, You're so sick of the way they've
turned our government, whether it's at the state level or national,
against the American people and against the people of Michigan,

(05:51):
that even a guy whose lifelong feels the need to
walk away. Look, Michigan Democrats are the people who want
to change our state flag. None of them say they
want to improve it, they just want to change it.
Michigan Democrats are the ones who want to waste ten
million dollars that's one dollar from every man, woman, and

(06:12):
child in Michigan on tampons for boys' bathrooms. Michigan Democrats
want to regulate every aspect of your life, from what
color guns you can buy to the regulations on parents
who homeschool their children, who've made the biggest investment in

(06:32):
their kids that anyone could ever imagine. When you sum
it up, whether in Michigan or nationally, Democrats have abandoned
the kitchen table for cultural Marxism, and in response, Dugan
has channel Logan Roy from succession. He said, these are
not serious people, and I don't want anything to do

(06:55):
with them. I heard a school of thought that maybe
Mike Duggan was afraid, oh my god, Joscelyn Benson, he'd
have to run against our Secretary of State, Joscelyn Benson,
and he just tried to avoid that. And I get
that argument. It's certainly what Benson essentially has argued herself.

(07:16):
But Mike Duggan's crazy like a fox. He's not just crazy.
So look, Mike Duggan has jumped into the race super early.
It's still twenty twenty four, and Mike Duggan is in
the governor's race. But unlike anyone else whose name you
might hear, Duggan's not just in the race. Dougan is

(07:38):
the only candidate that we know for sure whose name
will appear on the general election ballot. So in December
twenty twenty four, we know with certainty that Mike Duggan
will appear on the governor ballot in November twenty twenty six.

(07:58):
Douggan's the only person you could say that about. Democrats
have what Jocelyn Benson, they have Dana Nessel, our attorney general.
They have Pete Buttage Edge, the US Secretary of Transportation,
who seems to be on this list for no reason
other than his name recognition. They don't have any shortage

(08:20):
of options. Another guy people are excited about is the
sheriff of Genesee County, Chris Swanson. Swanson is one of
these guys who offers a different take on law enforcement,
and so much like Tim Walls.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Remember Tim Walls.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
You probably don't remember Tim Walls, but Tim Wallas, Kamala
Harris's running mate was supposed to offer that different take
on masculinity. The idea was, oh my god, here's a
football coach. But he's also not afraid of female leadership.
He's also not afraid to maybe hum a show tune.
He's not afraid to kick up his legs like a

(08:56):
Radio City roquet. He's comfortable his own skin. And so
these are the kind of people that the Democrats put forward.
To me, when you look at males and the Democrat
Party in twenty twenty four, I think Tim Walls, I
think mayor Pete. These aren't exactly men who walk like

(09:19):
a man. These are not men who are known for
their strength. It seems that their entire value is their
willingness to ultimately defer to female leadership. Let's look what
the Democrats in Michigan did to Joe Tate, our house
speaker right now. Joe Tate was a puppet from the

(09:41):
moment he took that post. I can't think of a
time I've ever seen a House speaker present a bill
that he wanted and actually have that be shot down
in a yes no vote, did not have the votes
a and didn't know he had the votes before going in.

(10:01):
That's not a thing in Lansing, but under Joe Tait
it became a thing.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
I think about Gavin Newsom.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Gavin Newsom, if Democrats wanted to actually win in twenty
twenty four, Gavin Newsom is who they would have picked.
He's a Democrat, He's a male, he's strong, he leads
a huge state. But he was too far down on
the DEI hierarchy to rise. All he was was governor
of California. Would have really helped if he was gay

(10:32):
or trans or something else, or a woman. And so
Mike Duggan looks around, he sees no party for straight
white men, and he decided to abandon the party. Can
you blame him? Was he wrong for that? And will
it work? We're gonna examine this. I'm gonna take another

(10:52):
take on Mike Duggan in a few minutes here after
the commercial break, and then we're gonna have on my
friend Karen Dumas, one of my earliest friends in Detroit.
Karen is the all seeing eye of Michigan politics, especially
Detroit politics. She's going to help us understand was this
clever or too clever by half?

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Talk to you guys very soon.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
Now.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
The last segment, we talked about why Mike Duggan, the
mayor of Detroit, would want to distance himself from the
Democrat party.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Now we need to talk.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
About why he actually can't do that and why if
this were to not work, why it wouldn't work. You know,
all you can tell Mike Duggan is a Democrat underneath
it all, because he's at war with reality. Democrats are
the people who believe that a man becomes a woman

(12:02):
by saying, so you put on a wig, you put
on the high heels, you put on a skirt, Whila,
you are a woman. Democrats believe that an illegal immigrant
becomes an American by crossing a border. By crossing the
rio grande and saying so, claiming asylum, claiming to be

(12:26):
part of us, and that at that point they should
be treated like a princeling and be given a package
of aid, debit cards, health insurance, luxury hotel stays that
no American would ever ask for because we know the
answer would be no. And so Douggan believes that a

(12:50):
Democrat politician, a lifelong Democrat, can become an independent just
by saying, so, you put on a purple tie and
there's no past, right you are whoever you claim to be.
And then I look at the city doug and governs,
and Detroit is a trans success story. They put up

(13:13):
some lights and now it identifies as a comeback city,
even though there ain't been no comeback. And so when
I look at Mike Douggan, what I see is a
trans independent, a guy who thinks that he's earned that
distinction just by saying so. So Mike Duggan governs the

(13:35):
so called comeback city of Michigan, Detroit. Mike Duggan told us, hey,
judge me by population. Okay, Mike, I'll take you up
on that. When Mike Duggan was elected in twenty thirteen,
Detroit has about six hundred and ninety thousand people right now,

(13:55):
as we sit here today, probably about six hundred and
twenty thousand people. The numbers, you know, might have shown
a little one year growth since nineteen fifty seven, since
the year my late mom was born, but that doesn't
mean your city's growing. And if you take out illegal immigrants,

(14:18):
Detroit is quite clearly shrinking. And so it's odd that
this lifelong Democrat would try to cover himself in a
different garb. You know, leaders walk their own path, and
I could give Mike Duggan some credit for that.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
I'm inclined to give him credit for that.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
There is a great narrative value in having someone of
Dugan's stature walk away from the Democrat Party, effectively saying,
you guys are too crazy.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
But I don't really see leadership here.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
I see Mike Duggan trying to rive this weight of discontent,
and I can prove it. Riddle me this, If Kamala
Harris won the twenty twenty four election, or if Joe
Biden had stayed in and won the election, would Mike
Duggan now be claiming he's independent? Of course not, of

(15:18):
course not, because nothing succeeds like success. His only problem
is that the Democrats aren't succeeding. Look, Mike Duggan has
welcomed in the World Economic Forum into Detroit to stand
up a center for urban transformation. He's embraced the fifteen

(15:40):
minute City. Our Governor Gretchen Whitmer is another person who's
embraced the World Economic Forum. And when she did, and
when she set up a center for Advanced Manufacturing with
the World Economic Forum, next thing you knew, we had
these Chinese projects popping up everywhere you looked. Next thing

(16:02):
you know, the Chinese wanted to build EV batteries in
big rapids wherever that is.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
Next thing you knew.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Ford Motor Company, the company that Henry Ford put the
world on wheels with, needed a Chinese partner to build
EV batteries at the Blue Oval Battery Park in Marshall.
So when Henry Ford walked the Earth, he hired Thomas
Edison to work on electric vehicles. As Bill Ford walks

(16:35):
the Earth, he hires the Chinese. And it's not a
coincidence that Mike Duggan's first major endorsement walking down this
independent path was none other than Bill Ford, chairman of
the Ford Motor Company. Look, guys, if it looks like

(16:56):
a duck and it walks like a duck, and it
quacks like a.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Duck, it's a duck.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Mike Duggan governed as a Democrat as mayor, he would
govern as a Democrat as governor.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
And so for Mike.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Duggan, the appearance of normal, the appearance of independence, is
just another campaign tactic. Doug running as an independent is
Rond de Santis in shoelifts. It's Michael Dukakis in a
in a military helmet and riding a tank. I would

(17:35):
say the moral of the Mike Duggan story is the
moral of the Ronda Santis story. Ultimately, you can't outrun yourself.
Bill Parcells said it perfectly. You are what your record
says you are, and what your record says, mister mayor,

(17:56):
is that you are a Democrat. We come back from
the great from the break. Karen Dumas, my mentor, my
friend and the co host of the NOBS News Hour
is going to join me. We're going to talk about
Mike Duggan. We're going to talk about his run as
independent and what you need to know about the man
who would be our next governor.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Talk to you soon. We're back. We're back.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Right now. I'm going to talk to one of my
favorite people. Karen Dumas is a former nine ten am
radio host. Karen Dumas knows Michigan politics. She knows Detroit
politics better than anyone. She's had the ear of Mayor
Dave Bing in Detroit, Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick in Detroit. She's
co host, along with Charlie Ledoff, of NOBS News Hour,

(18:51):
great podcast, one of my favorites here in Michigan. Karen,
thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker 4 (18:58):
Good morning James. You're doing an excellent job. I am
loving listening to the show.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Thank you, Karen, I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Karen, what was your reaction when you heard a that
Mike Duggan was finally running for governor as we've you know,
rumored and thought for so long, but be running as
an independent?

Speaker 4 (19:19):
Well, you know you got it, as you've pointed out earlier.
You know, I mean Mike Nill's politics, Mike Nill's people.
So he's reading the room, he's reading relationships. But this
is the interesting thing. He's pulling a page from the
mcnamair playbook. What mcnamair did because he was a Republican
mayor in Lavonia and knew he could not win county

(19:40):
wide as a Republican, so he ran as an independent.
Mike duccan used to be the president of the Young
Republicans in Lavonia, so we kind of you know, you
were talking. I like the analogy that you used about
the trans city for the trade and saying that it
is and that's pretty much what we're seeing. We're seeing,
you know, a chameleion in this effort. But the bigger

(20:02):
thing is what is the goal? Is his goal at
this point to win or is it to split the
vote and allow for a Republican gunner to come in.
I mean, this is all strategy. You know, Mike plays chess.
He's not playing checkers. But you've got to really look
at the bigger pictures. Some of his backers, you know,

(20:23):
are Republicans across the state. Right, People outside of Southeast
Michigan don't know him, don't particularly care. You know, what
he's done for Detroit. So is this a this isn't
necessarily a political move. It may actually be a business move.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Interesting. I just he does play chess.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
I just when I look at him and his character,
and as you know his personality, it's tough for me
to imagine Mike Duggan being anyone's sacrificial lamb or doing
something that's meant to benefit someone other than Mike Duggan.

Speaker 4 (20:59):
But that's not the SA say that the benefit in
this case doesn't necessarily have to be a parent and
it doesn't have to be political. And you've got to
look at this. Mike has excused my language, but Mike
is a powerhore, so he's not going to which is
why we have to watch the mayor's race here very closely.

(21:20):
And I've said this, I've been saying this since the
day one. Unless there is a breakout candidate, excuse me,
unless there's a breakout candidate, the next mayor would be
picked and paid for by Mike Duggan. He's not going
to relinquish control over the largest city in the state
of Michigan, and the business community is not going to
risk a disruption of resources and support that they've enjoyed

(21:40):
under this administration. I mean, it's just not going to happen.
So you know, sometimes control isn't always a parent, it's
not always in the front. But you think between twenty
five and twenty six just gives Mike the opportunity to
make some money. I mean, there are a lot of
behind you. Remember you went through a divorce, You lost
a lot, a lot of net exchange. There are a
lot of things. There are a lot of moving parts

(22:01):
and movie pieces. You also talked about, you know, the past.
You've got to look at the how the Wayne County
Prosecutor's office was left when he left, the niggling for
Metro Times has did you know big story about.

Speaker 5 (22:18):
It was about how.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
They find a lot of the criminal cases from like
you know, prior to nineteen ninety five basically.

Speaker 4 (22:26):
Exactly, and that perhaps some of the documents that shouldn't
have been destroyed or so you've got to look at
his time on the DPS board, look at DMC. I mean,
everybody's forgetting all these things. We talked about Detroit as
the comeback city. Now it's not. You talked about population.
We've lost eighty thousand people. So yeah, we gained fifteen hundred.

(22:47):
I'm not a mathematician, but that's not a growth. So
you know, and you got to also look at the
quality of life here. You know, gentrification, You've got to
have that conversation at a certain point and you know,
I mean, are things really better? Are they just prettier?
You talked about, you know, putting up lights and yeah,
but you have this sick fan fare when a restaurant

(23:10):
opens and then it quietly closes. You can still drive
through downtown any business day it's empty, So yeah, we
can celebrate, you know, bringing you know, all these fans
here for you know the NFL that was one weekend.
Where is everybody right?

Speaker 1 (23:27):
What was your reaction to the timing? This is rather early?

Speaker 2 (23:31):
And that's another thing that kind of surprised me is
why is Mike jumping out so early?

Speaker 1 (23:36):
He doesn't need to, and so so quick after the election.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
I mean it's just even if people want to follow you,
I gotta think loyal Democrats are going to be turned
off by the timing.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Why is he doing this so soon?

Speaker 4 (23:50):
Well that's again we're and we're all speculating, but you
hit the nail on the head, is that, you know,
he's looking at the temperature. After the presidential election, I mean,
people were disappointed they didn't get the support that they
thought they would because you know, there's that whole exploitation
so so let me kind of get ahead of this,
let me play the good guy and and pretend like

(24:12):
I'm going to you know, Bridge, and you know we're
gonna he's kind of taking just a small corner of
a page from Kamala Harrison. We're gonna have some compassion here. Wow,
we need to do better. You know, let's let's let's
do better.

Speaker 6 (24:24):
But you know this is coming.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
From a very very I mean, he's no joke politically.
I mean, that's the thing. He knows he's not I mean,
And so it would be disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
You know, I think about the problem of being independent.
You know, normally someone wouldn't do this. The reason you
know this hasn't really been a thing is because you
invite attacks from both parties now and to me, Dougan,
I mean especially so now another problem is a straight
ticket voting. And so as I see it, when you

(25:00):
have something like forty percent of people in Michigan who
vote you straight picket, unless there is an independent party
that has stood up around Duggan, and there's other people
who are independent on the ballot, how is he not
already dead in the water.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
Well, but again and I know this doesn't seem them
like you said. You know, he's not planning to be
and again we're all speculating here, but there's a bigger picture,
there's a bigger win, and it may not be what
we think it is or should be. But you know, again,
he doesn't have the name recognition or the aledged appeal

(25:38):
outside of the immediate metro area. And most of that
appeal comes from people who don't necessarily live in the city,
but who have watched the city from the stands and say, oh, wow,
everything looks so great. Mike Dugan has done such a
great job. God, we forget the infrastructure changes that were
put in place under former mayor day thing Mike Duggan

(26:01):
was able to walk in and flip the switch on
the lights. That was something that he talked about for
the longest on we were able to turn the lights on,
but the lightning authority was already put in place. We
went to Washington and got dollars for new transportation here
in the city, although we still don't have regional transportation,
which also speaks to you know, that disdain and disconnect
for the city of Detroit. They they built, you know,

(26:24):
the new public Safety Center. You know, that was a commitment,
you know, to the police officers and to our public
safety officers. You know, I mean the alignment with the
foundations and corporations. He went to Penske and and Gilbert
and got them to commit money to buy new emergency vehicles,
you know, at a time when the city was financially unstable.

(26:47):
Excuse me, but but there rumors and back rooms, some
of this is going to unravel, Like we don't have
any new revenue. We still have not restored our tax base.
So and the federal dollars are up. So think about
that too. The business community, Republicans, supporters of Trump, you know,
I mean, and these are big donors to Mike Q.

(27:09):
So everything is not what it always seems.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
You know, some say that Mike Duggan is being fearful,
he's doctor, he's duck. And Joscelyn Benson, Yeah, I say,
Mike Duggan's the only guy who we know is going
to make the general election ballot right now. You you've
said many times that Mike Duggan wrote the book on politics. Yeah,
what's the why Why is he so effective at politics?

Speaker 4 (27:38):
Mike plays people like an accordion you know. I remember
that there was a very uh, there's a feel of
a very large corporation here, and it was interesting. We
were having lunch and we were talking. He said, somebody
asked him about why did Mike Duggan. It was something
that was going on at the time, and they were saying, well,

(28:01):
why would he Why would the mayor tell you what
to do? And the CEO kind of laughed, and this
was a private conversation. He said, when has he not
told you what to do? You think about when he
called all the banks together for this neighborhood reinvestment strategy
and said, you know, we're going to put X amount
of millions of dollars in per each neighborhood. Okay, But

(28:21):
what he did not tell them was that there was
a fiduciary for that money and that they had no
say so on how it was being spent. But he
got out ahead of it. So if anybody pulled back,
then they looked that right. I mean, Mike Duggan has
played the black community in the city of Detroit like
an accordion.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
When he I think it was the twenty seventeen election
when he I forget if it was a tax cut
or if it was some kind of property deal, but
basically the pastors all got thirty pieces of silver right
leading up to the election. And that was kind of
the only time he faced a serious challenge for reelection
when he ran against cold Man Young.

Speaker 4 (29:01):
Well, you know when when listen and I hate to
say it, but in that in that exchange, sometimes he's
been handed the sheet music. So I mean, you know,
it's it's it's really bad.

Speaker 5 (29:16):
But if you just sit.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
Back and ask, I mean, what has anybody gotten out
of anybody as it relates to you know, politics, You
know we're talking about it at the national level, we're
talking about at the local level. I think people need
to really sit back, reevaluate who they are, their families,
their immediate communities, take care of themselves, eat better, exercise,
save your money, and watch your back.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Karen, we'll probably get you out of here on this one.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
I found this to be so strange, and it's mostly
it's like you said, it's outsiders. It's people who might
be looking at Detroit from Chicago. It's expats who live elsewhere,
it's suburban nights. Where did this idea come from that
Mike is a moderate? Why do people think the mayor
of a deep blue city is somehow a moderate I

(30:07):
keep hearing this word.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
It's all perception. This has been the biggest marketing campaign
for both his branding for the city's branding. All style,
no substance, and so you know, I mean people talk about,
you know, perception. That's been quite valuable in terms of
the change of perception. And you know, Mike is able

(30:30):
to flip the switch. He has conversations in rooms. I mean,
I know Mike since he was a Wayne County prosecutor.
I mean, I just you know, you can't take away
from who he is and what he brings to the table.
But at the end of the day, you have to
look at what does that mean for the people that
he allegedly represents or the interest that he allegedly represents.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
You know, and they talk about it's not what you say,
it's how you say it, And that to me tells me.
You know, you can have money flying in all kinds
of different directions into theo of your friends, but maybe
if you don't wear a gold chain and you don't
have a big security team, when you don't drive a navigator,
you're not.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Believed to be that so, like you, sais more, it's
more marketing.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
It is, it's all marketing. But remember when he first
came in, you know, he said, oh, you know, I
don't I don't need security.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
I'm going to drive myself.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
Yeah, because he was having an affair, so he didn't
need executive protection. So and you think about.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
That, they might have been able to find that tail
that was on him.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
You think, so. I mean, but people want to dismiss that.
There are so many people that wanted this city to
be the way they wanted it to be, and in
some instances that was a change in complexion of the city.
And that's why they've refused. The mainstream media has refused
to just acknowledge his shortfalls. If anyone else had had
an affair, he was driving, he directed employees to destroy

(31:53):
emails he was you know, sending, demanding that money be
directed to you know, his now wife's program. At this
would have been a most elation. But it's like, oh yeah,
and look at somebody said, well we want him to
be happy. Yeah, I want him to be happy too,
but at who's expense? So, you know, the the demolition money,
the dirt money, you know, at the federal level. I mean,

(32:14):
all of that has just been passed over because we
want something to be different, and everybody's so anxious for
the change that they want, and what are we getting
for it, you know? I mean I hear Native Detroiters
feel that they don't even feel welcome or comfortable in
their in their own city anymore. I mean, it's just

(32:36):
it shouldn't be that way. I mean, it should be
an inclusive city, but not at the expense of the
people who held it together.

Speaker 5 (32:43):
Karin.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Nobody does it better. Nobody understands Michigan better. Thank you
so much, and thank you for all the times you
had me on your show.

Speaker 4 (32:51):
Hey, you know anytime. Jad You know, I love you,
I respect you, I love your voice, and I appreciate
the opportunity. And I'll talk to you soon. Thank you
so much. All right, Love you, Karen, Love you too.
God bye.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
So we just talked about the problem with Mike Duggan,
and there are many problems with Mike Duggan. But as
I see it, the GOP has a problem too. It
has a twenty twenty six problem. We're going to talk
about that in just a few seconds here. It's not
going to be an easy ride, and Mike Duggan's not

(33:36):
going to make it one for the Republicans. We're going
to talk about that breakdown in just a few minutes.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Good morning, everybody.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
James Dixon here filling in for Justin Barclay on a
cold Friday.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
In Metro Detroit. So we started off talking about Mike Duggan.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Mike Duggan runs as an independent for governor. Mike Duggan
isn't an independent. But if you think Mike Duggan is
the answer in twenty twenty six for Republicans, let me
disabuse you of that. The Michigan GOP has a big,
glaring twenty twenty six problem and Mike Duggan can't fix it.

(34:19):
The problem is not just in Michigan, it's across the country.
And the problem is this, Donald Trump is not walking
through that door. Donald Trump will never appear on another ballot.
That name will never be seen on another ballot again.
He's maxed out. So in Michigan, we have one hundred
and sixty five seats that really matter. The entire Michigan

(34:43):
House is up in twenty twenty six. That's one hundred
and ten seats. The entire Michigan Senate. That's thirty eight seats,
the entire US House delegation that's another thirteen seats. Then
we have Gary Peters's Senate seat. So that's a statewide
race that's going to require a candidate who has fundraising

(35:04):
ability and the gravitas.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
You don't need to just be an.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Interesting person, you need to look like you could be
a US senator. And then we have three big state races,
the big three governor, attorney General, and Secretary of State.
The Democrat field, by comparison, was so crowded that Mike
Duggan already jumped ship to escape it. But on the

(35:31):
Red team, you look around and the cupboard looks rather bare.
Even in this election cycle, Republicans were excited to vote
for Trump, and there was a lot of people who
would have called over broken glass to do so. But
then you talk to volunteers, and man, if you ran
one of those campaign centers and you had yard signs,

(35:54):
someone might take three Trump yard signs, but you ask
them to take a Mike Rogers yard sign. You ask
them to take some of these down ballot candidates, and
they were a little hesitant to do so. And so
the real question in twenty twenty six is can Michigan
Republicans take the success of a man and apply it

(36:18):
to a movement?

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Is there a movement?

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Are there the competent people, are there the candidates to
fill all these seats. So when Donald Trump has not
appeared on the ballot, typically enthusiasm among Republicans is much worse.
It was the same during mid terms when Trump was
first president. It was the same in twenty twenty two

(36:42):
when Trump's name didn't appear on a ballot. Twenty twenty six,
Donald Trump's not walking through that door, and our question
is who will? And So the next Michigan GOP chair,
as I see it, has three big jobs in front
of them.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
One, you gotta find us candidates.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
You got to identify candidates who could do this, because
if you let Michigan just be permanently ruled by Democrats,
we're not going to be doing shows like this in
a year. In a few years, certainly, we're going to
be finding places to live that don't run on solar
panels and windmills.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Then you need to fundraise.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
And then part three, we need a Scott Pressler type
figure in Michigan who's going to help get out the vote.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
So we have a big task ahead of us.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
If you're happy with how Trump did in twenty twenty four,
great if you played a role.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
In it, amazing.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
But don't stop fighting because in twenty twenty six we
have a battle for Michigan. I am actually not Justin Barclay,
and by the grace of God, I'm not Robert L. Peers,
and I hope you guys don't think I'm bab bar either.
In our first hour with that, we just enjoyed together.
Fun fact about Michigan. Seventy six percent of the people

(38:07):
born here. Let's just say seventy five. Seventy five percent
of the people who live in Michigan were born in Michigan.
That means that if you see four people sitting down
together for lunch, three of them were born here and
maybe one of the others came from elsewhere. And chances

(38:27):
are even if they did come from elsewhere, it was
family ties that brought them there, a love interest, perhaps.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Maybe work, but mostly it's going to be family.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Heather Dow Patriot postgirl on Twitter, is one of my
absolute favorite people I've ever met. Heather is a I
wouldn't say a transplant. She moved here to live a
better life for her family. She didn't come here from
Baltimore wanting to turn Michigan into Baltimore. She came here
because it was Baltimore. She has a most unique take

(39:03):
on Michigan. And when you follow her on Twitter, exit
Patriot postgirl Man. You know, when I was editor of
the Macadaw Center's news outlet, Michigan Capital Confidential, That's when
I realized that we have a real literacy problem in
our culture. People don't read. People don't read. And when

(39:28):
I was a kid, they used to say, if you
want to hide the truth, put it in a book.
Today they say, if you want to hide the truth,
put it in the two hundred and eighty first character
of a tweet. Because no one's clicking into the semour.
We don't have the curiosity to see more. If it's
not spoon fed directly into our mouths, we just keep scrolling. Well, Heather,

(39:50):
the mean Queen of Michigan, has a great ability to
stop the scroll. You could call it a superpower. Heather,
thank you so much for taking the t time to.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Join us today.

Speaker 4 (40:02):
Thank you for having me so Heather.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
You came here from Baltimore. Tell us your Michigan origin story.
Why did you come here? When did you come here?

Speaker 6 (40:15):
So?

Speaker 7 (40:16):
I came here about eight years ago. I was living
in Baltimore City, Maryland, and my husband was looking to
get a new job, and he's an engineer and he
is originally from Michigan. But what I started doing as
I'm a homeschooler, so I started looking at the homeschool

(40:36):
all around the country, and Michigan has some of the
best homeschool alls in the nation. So I thought this
would be a great place to move and homeschool my son.
And when I got here, I think it was living.
I think it was right when we had our first uh,

(40:59):
it was I think I'd lived here in a couple
of years. And then Whimmer got elected the first time.
So I've mostly lived under a Whitmer administration here in Michigan.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Well, I apologize for that. We have not sent our
best lancing during the time you've been here. So, as
someone from Maryland, you're not unusual to the Whitmer like
characters like this. No, So, like I was talking about
your your superpower is this ability to stop the scroll.
I'm looking at your page right now, Patriot postgirl on Twitter.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
One of them is about the guy we were just
talking about, Mike Duggan and and the words right.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Dougan claims to be running an independent campaign, but when
he needs to boost his funding, he'll start batting for
the left wing team.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
And then it's a Scooby Doo meme and you see the.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
Blonde guy and saying, who's really a Michigan lefty governor nominee?
Then he pulls off the mask and the bad guy
is Mike Duggan.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
How do you? How do you did you come up?

Speaker 2 (42:00):
I mean, because man, I I and you were about
the same age we grew up on those cartoons. I
can still see my grandma, you know, reading her Bible
and her and her recliner chair right next to me
as I watch cartoons like Scooby Doo as a little kid,
and it just it just creates this warmth in this

(42:21):
like nostalgia almost.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
How do you come up with something like that?

Speaker 7 (42:27):
Well, I'm I'm I'm more of a visual person. I
like to try to when I read, I try to
come up with visuals of what I'm reading. And I
think a lot of the public right now is drawn
to visuals, memes, just because our lives are so fast
paced and social media is so just one click away

(42:51):
from the from the next thing, you know, so it's
so important to stop the scroll, get people to pay
attention to what's going on in our news. And a
lot of times that's a split second thing. Yes, it's
not always a chance. It's not always people don't have
the time all the time to listen to, you know,

(43:11):
an hour long podcast or you know, read an article
that you know, several paragraphs long. Unfortunately, that's just our
society right now.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
I think it is.

Speaker 7 (43:24):
So Yeah, I try to stop people in their tracks,
and you know, this is important. You need to pay
attention to this. And it seems to be bright colors
stop the scroll on social media.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
So yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Know, your memes help people stop the scroll. And you're
you're humble, you don't like to hear this, but it's true.
There are some people in Michigan, there are some people
among our ten million people in Michigan who the only
article they might read that day will be because you
illustrated that article. And so, in a say, you're giving

(44:00):
people that gift of literacy by stopping the scroll, by
making you what they say and sister act you have
to wake up and pay attention by making people wake
up and pay attention. But to make these memes, you
have to stop your own scroll first. How do you
go about deciding and I guess picking the targets for

(44:23):
your memes?

Speaker 7 (44:25):
Well, sometimes it's really easy. I mean sometimes I'll read
an article and you know, a visual just jump right
out at me, and I get so excited. That's the
funny thing.

Speaker 6 (44:35):
I get so excited.

Speaker 7 (44:35):
Oh I know exactly what I'm going to do, and
it's almost like I have to stop everything in my
world in order to get it done because I don't
want to lose that momentum that I have going in
my head. But yeah, most of it's from my head.
I mean it's funny because people say, where do you
get your ideas? And I say, well, it's just from
my head. But yeah, it's but you read everything, Yeah,

(45:02):
and I read everything. Oh yeah, I'm I'm a voracious reader.
I love to read the news. I've always loved to
read the news. Even when I live back in Baltimore.
During my lunch hour, I'd always read the paper and
I would get on the Baltimore Sun chats talk to
people in there about what they was thinking about the
news that day.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
So I I you were an earlier Internet commenter.

Speaker 7 (45:27):
Yes, I've always been very interested in what the public
thinks about what's going on in their community. Yes, it's
you know, growing up in Baltimore City, there's a lot
of corruption, and you know, it was just interesting to
see different people's takes on it because everybody in Baltimore
was very different. People lived in different kind of parts,

(45:48):
tucked away in different parts of the city, and every
part of that city is very different. So it was
interesting to see what people thought about, you know, how
how politics affected their life and where they lived and
just the different things that were going on in their lives.
But yeah, I've always been into politics. It's always been

(46:09):
a passion of mine. And so yeah, when I moved here,
of course, then COVID hit and it was you know,
all the things with COVID, So I got very interested
in politics back then.

Speaker 8 (46:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
You talk about a target rich environment that was, and
you had none fair advantage because you had a captive
audience too.

Speaker 4 (46:30):
Yeah, right right.

Speaker 7 (46:32):
It got me really interested in starting to do graphic
design back then because I was just getting started in it,
and it was you know, it was it was a
learning process. You know, every day learned.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
Something new with it. And you know, I'm.

Speaker 7 (46:48):
Always trying to get better at what I'm doing with
my skill set, and so yeah, every day I'm working
at it.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
So now you you talked about it was a learning process.
Sas right were you having You're also a homeschool mom.
Is that is the photoshop? Is that something that like
a skill set you had to develop as part of
your teaching duties or or was it specifically to do this?

Speaker 7 (47:15):
I actually, I mean I've always been kind of a
creative person, and I think every homeschool mom is kind
of a creative person. But like I would say that,
but I think it was when the politics started to
shift here in Michigan, when Wimer first got elected and

(47:35):
then the COVID hit and everything else, I just saw
a real need for this. I mean, people were really hurting,
and you know, they were looking away for a way
to get their messaging out and a lot of times
they were getting shut down, you know, because you know,
social media was cracking down on people, and you know,

(47:57):
it was just one of those things that I just
saw a need for and I thought, well, I can
barn how to do this. This is I'm just a
really I'm a person that likes to learn new things
and just and I'm kind of a person that does
everything one hundred percent when I learned this, so I
had to really learn it. And then I thought, well,
I could get really good at this if I put
the effort in.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
And I hope everyone heard that.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
I hope everyone listened to that, which is that if
you put the.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Time and effort in.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
You know a rule I use as always, the first
one's the worst one. The first one's the worst one.
So this will be the worst radio broadcast I ever do.
My first podcast was the first worst podcast I'll ever do.
My first column was the worst column. Because we need
to give ourselves that grace. I saw this this meme

(48:52):
basically where it was like, you have to give yourself
permission to suck at something. But here's the flip side
of that. Sometimes you have to know what's not your gift.
How did you know that this was your gift? Like,
so you're a visual person, which I take to mean
that's how you learn. Did you realize that this was

(49:12):
also a strength you had or is that something that
you discovered.

Speaker 7 (49:17):
Yeah, I mean I started to realize that, you know,
people would read the news and they wouldn't get the
chunks of the news that they really needed, you know
what I mean. And I thought, well, a visual would
really help send the message home for some of these people,
you know. And because a lot of times in articles,

(49:38):
you know, the main idea is tucked away at the
bottom or you know, it's a paid it's a paid article,
and so people can't read it, or they can't get
the information out of it, or they just don't have
the time to scroll all the way to the bottom
and read.

Speaker 6 (49:53):
The whole thing.

Speaker 7 (49:55):
So I thought, this way, I could take a main
idea from the article and just turn it into a visual,
and that way it gives people something to oh.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
What's this about?

Speaker 1 (50:05):
You know?

Speaker 7 (50:05):
This is this is It's just it jumps off the
page at you. So that was my that was my goal,
and I was kind of an experiment when I started it.
It was never like I never really thought that this
would really turn into what it's turned into.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
I just thought, well, let.

Speaker 7 (50:22):
Me try this and see if anybody cares. So and
it seems to work.

Speaker 6 (50:28):
We ca Yeah, it seems to work.

Speaker 7 (50:30):
I was really impressed with how people really they say.
And what's really cool is people save them on their phones.
They'll save them and they'll throw them out all over
social media. So I don't just see them, you know,
on my page or on my Twitter. I see them
all over Twitter.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
And from years ago.

Speaker 7 (50:49):
Yeah, I see stuff that I've made from like very beginning.
So that's really cool because it means people are holding
on to them and then they're throwing them out where
they see see the need you.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Know, talk about yes memes.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
That's the perfect way to end this, Heather. I want
to thank you for your gift. I want to thank
you for your time. I encourage if you can hear
the sound of my voice, hop on Twitter.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Follow Patriot Post Girl.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
She has a great meme now about the gangs of
Oaklint County. I'm sitting here in Southfield and that story
hits unfortunately close to home.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
Heather, thank you so much, Thank.

Speaker 4 (51:31):
You so much.

Speaker 7 (51:32):
James, have a blessed day, all right.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Be blessed.

Speaker 8 (51:35):
Goodbye.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Oh when we come back.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
When we come back, we're gonna talk about make news
local again. You guys can't see what I'm wearing I'm
wearing my trademark make News Local Again shirt. What do
I mean when I say that, Well, I'm glad you asked,
because I'm going to explain the whole thing right now.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
So short commercial break, talk to you guys very soon.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
To make News Local Again. If you know me, then
you probably know about the Enjoyer project. Where that's that's
a trademark concern that we have, which is basically when
you when you open up your newspaper, even when you
watch TV. We have some TVs on in the studio here.

(52:28):
A disturbing amount of the news we read is from
elsewhere and produced elsewhere. And so if you go if
you were to go pick up the Detroit News or
Free Press today, you'd see a lot of nation and
world stories. Uh, that's not what people want when they
pick up the newspaper. The promise of news was always

(52:52):
timely true local stories.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
At at its height, the newspaper gave you a novel's
worth of timely true local stories every single day. Not
just stories, true stories, and not just true stories, true
stories about people you knew and people you knew of

(53:18):
in your community. Because we have a great interest in
the doings of other people, whether we should or shouldn't.
If you think about it, news is a professionalized version
of gossip. We put some rules around it. There's some
standards of proof and that kind of thing, but even

(53:38):
those shift from organizational organization or day to day based
on the needs. And so when I say make news
local again, it speaks to that human need we have
to understand what's going on around us. Mel Brooks said
that a comedy is when you trip on a banana

(54:01):
and die. A tragedy is when I have a hangnail.
It's that same concept, right. It would matter more to
me if three people died in a car crash today
in Southfield, where I live, than if thirty thousand people
died in a mud slide in Indonesia.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
I'm not saying I'm a great person. I haven't heard that.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
You know, the Nobel people haven't exactly asked me whether
I want the Nobel Prize sent to my home or office.
I'm just talking about what we do in human nature,
and so I'd like to talk for a few seconds
about how I spent my twenty twenty four election. I'd
never covered politics before joining the New York Post Swing

(54:45):
State team. Then next thing I knew, I was covering
Michigan as a swing state for a globally known newspaper.
My editor at the Post had a brilliant idea for
covering the swing states. Usually a place like the Post
would send its own reporters to places like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Kelly had a great idea.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Instead, she hired locals in those states, and those locals
me included. We didn't just match the stories in our
local markets. We didn't just bring swing state stories to
a national audience, which would have been a value add
in and of itself. But across the board and across
our seven states, we found ourselves telling unique stories and

(55:35):
stories that would not have been told but for The Post.
You may have heard during the election that Alissa Slocke, in,
our next senator in Michigan, takes a farming text credit
at her home but doesn't actually do any farming there.
You may have heard that she lied about being a
farmer in front of a room full of farmers. You

(55:57):
may have heard that she broke up a twenty five
year military marriage just to discard that guy right as
she was going to run for Senate. You may have
heard that Slockein filed for divorce in DC and not
in Michigan, because DC's where she actually lives, it's where
she actually pays property taxes. You may have heard that

(56:18):
Slockin's first time voting in Michigan was in twenty eighteen,
and that the first vote she cast was for herself.
You didn't get these stories in the Detroit News. You
didn't get them in the Free Press, and that's even
after we printed them. The easiest thing to do is
to match a report that's out there. All you have
to do is say, reports say, and boom, you stand

(56:41):
up your version of the story. But they were playing
politics rather than doing journalism, so they didn't tell those stories.
When you heard them, you either got them from one
of two places, the New York Post or the Michigan Enjoyer.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
And so look, it's.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
One thing to critique them mainstream news, and I do
plenty of that at the Enjoyer on my podcast. I
damn near pull out the protractor and can show you
the exact slant of the stories you read. But real
winning and real value is starting from a blank page

(57:20):
and breaking and telling the stories that nobody else has
That's what we did at the Swing State Team. It's
the most fun I've ever had in journalism. That's what
we do at the Michigan Enjoyer. It's the first time
in my life I've been asked to start from a
blank page of Hey, what would you like.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
To write about? What are you thinking about?

Speaker 2 (57:42):
As opposed to coming in with the page largely filled
out and all the.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
Only room there is for me is just a few blanks.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
We're gonna come back and we're gonna talk to Kelly
Jane Torrence about the Swing State Project in just a
few minutes. My guest is my old boss and my
longtime friend. Kelly Jane Torrence is nothing less than a
visionary and journalist. She had the most unique form of

(58:13):
the most unique take on how to cover the twenty
twenty four election.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
We have these swing states around America.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
What if we had local talents from those states do
the reporting, as opposed to sending a bunch of people
from the East coast.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Kelly, thank you for joining us today.

Speaker 6 (58:32):
Thanks for having me, James Kelly.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
How did the idea of the Swing State Project come about?

Speaker 6 (58:39):
Well, it's a great question, and clearly this is going
to be an important election, and you know, I kind
of hate it. I feel like every election people say
this is the most important.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Important of our lives.

Speaker 6 (58:50):
Yeah, exactly, but you know, this one was pretty important,
James Is I think you would probably agree it was.
And so, you know, and you know, I kind of
last you know, every election season, especially the last few,
because you get all these national polls on on, you know,
how the candidates are faring against each other. But those

(59:12):
polls don't matter at all. All that matters is the
swing states. That is where the election will be decided.
Is in those states. You know, nobody, nobody's respecting New
York or California or Texas to vote, you know, differently
than has for for you know, forever, and and so
the swing states are the ones that matter. Now how

(59:35):
do we how do you cover these important states? Well,
you know, I decided, and you know, talking to other
people as well about it, that the best thing to
do would be to hire people who know those states
inside and out. And and so that's you know, that's
what I did. Is I you know, you've got LinkedIn ads,

(59:57):
I've promoted on social media. You know, come work, come
work for the post, but stay where you are, and
it was great that you know, people were willing to
take a chance and do that. And honestly, James, it
was such an incredible experience as a privilege of a
lifetime to create a team that, of course you were on.
And you know, the day of the election, you know

(01:00:20):
a lot of smart people. I knew thought for sure
Kamala Harris was going to win, right I knew that.

Speaker 5 (01:00:25):
It wasn't going to win.

Speaker 6 (01:00:26):
And that's because I talked to you and all the
rest of the reporters for months and the end of
the day of the election, and I knew that Kamala
Harris was not going to win. I knew that Donald
Trump was going to win. And it's because of your
and the other reporters on the ground reporting. You know
your state's better than anyone, and it turned out to
be a big success.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
We do know our states better than anyone. I remember
a time a colleague, you know, we were covering the
same event, it turns out, and I could see them
work in the room and kind of you know, trying
to figure out who the players were. I knew everyone
in the room, and it's just like, you know, you
can't you cannot come into my state from New York

(01:01:09):
and just out report me.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
That will never happen exactly. It is literally an impossibility.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
So I was talking about make news local again and
selling t shirts about it, you were actually doing it.
I'm sure the common thought though, was to do it
the traditional way. Why not just send our staff all over?
How do you win that tuggle war?

Speaker 6 (01:01:33):
Well, that's a great question, James filled with a lot
of a lot of stuff that goes into that. But
as you know, but you know what one thing that's
fast and keys you another another of the reported our team,
Cameron or Canon Arizona, you know, made makes the same
point as you do, and you know what you do
so eloquently. You know, he's in Arizona, a big swing

(01:01:56):
state as well as of course Michigan is. And he
he was, you know, constantly dealing with people from especially
the TV network would send people, as you say, from
New York to cover and you know he would kind
of laugh like he did he did, and they would
ask questions and you know, he would find himself kind

(01:02:20):
of puzzled, like how do they not know that it's
the obvious because he's been there. You know, he's a
young guy, but he's been there for years, living in Arizona,
living in breathing. It's politics, and you know, same with you.
You know all of those players and so yeah, you
know a lot of the a lot of the big
media outlets think, hey, let's send our best people. They

(01:02:43):
think they're all in New York. And of course the
people in New York also think they're the best people.
Or DC, Yeah, exactly, or DC. But you know that
our team, I said, proved all proved all of that
wrong regularly.

Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
You guys got the best scoops.

Speaker 6 (01:03:01):
You you know, you you really showed how important it
is to know your state and not just jump in. Uh.
You know, I know the one of those, you know,
the Wisconsin reporter Amy Sigma. She you know, she was
trying to explain someone, you know, the RNC came to Milwaukee,
and you know, this person said, oh, Milwaukee is such

(01:03:23):
a safe city. You know, I feel comfortable walking around here.
There can't be any crime here. Exactly what she w
She ended up grabbing a scooter and covering better than
you know, anybody. She was one of the first media
on the ground, and of course some she did a
great job, but that is the thing is, of course,

(01:03:44):
she noted, it's the RNC. They're going to make that
area the safest it'll ever be. You know, they are
on they are on national news every night, so they
want to make sure nothing crazy happens.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
Except for the shooting.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Except that happened exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:04:01):
But you know, the reporters going there thought said, oh,
Milwaukee sits a safe place. Well, look at the statistic
who lived there, you know, experience it for yourself and
you'll find out, No, it's it's not safe. It's crime ridden.
So you know, I just you know, Callless examples with
you and the other reporters. James, what a great job
you did. I mean, because you know those states.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
Carson Swick was there in Butler, Pennsylvania when Trump got shot.

Speaker 6 (01:04:28):
It was incredible, James. You know, it was a Saturday,
and within two minutes of Donald Trump being shot, Carson
called me, let me know what happened. I hadn't been
watching it live. I know a lot of people sawt alive.
I hadn't been watching it. You know, I was was
having a nap, Thank god ness, I didn't. And he
called me within two minutes. And then the editor in

(01:04:49):
chief of the paper called me eight minutes after the shooting,
and I was able to tell, well, I've already talked
to my reporter. Yeah, you know, he's on it. It's
you know, so and of course, you know, person of
not being able to get a very good signal, So
I ended up calling him and she couldn't he couldn't
email anything. So I called him and he dictated, uh,
stuff the old school away, right, you remember that, James.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
That is old school as it gets, That is century
ago journalism.

Speaker 6 (01:05:17):
It was incredible, And again he knows Pennsylvania. And you
end up staying and and uh, you know, doing some
because obviously it's the biggest story in the country. So
we ended up staying around Butler and and you know, covering,
covering that story. But it was it was incredible.

Speaker 9 (01:05:32):
You know, you did a.

Speaker 6 (01:05:33):
Great job, James, in particular, Uh you know, race was
an issue often discussed in this in this campaign season,
and you did a great job too and looking at
what was happening because Detroit, of course was one of
the places, uh in Detroit, the pred area where where
the Trump campaign was really targeting and trying.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
To reach people with some success too.

Speaker 6 (01:05:57):
Indeed, indeed, so Michigan was of course fascinating, you know,
because you also had you know, the Arab American vote.
Oh yeah, vote, I mean it, Michigan was just a
great you know, as you know, Nate Silver, the you know,
famous bowling guy, said the key to a Trump victory
is winning Michigan.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
And the Pennsylvania people tried to tug of war with
us for it, but I think it was.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
Michigan in the end.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Exactly when I was young, Ohio and Florida the first
you know elections, I remember like really caring what was
going to happen, you know, two thousand, Ohio and Florida
were the main swing states. This year, it felt like
Michigan in Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania in the in the two position,
I would say, I get what happened in Florida. Ron

(01:06:48):
de Santis happened, and then Donald Trump became a Floridian.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
Whya's Ohio gone so far red? Though?

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
What happened in Ohio? They've pretty much lost their swing
state status.

Speaker 6 (01:07:01):
Yeah, It's it's funny because, as you know, we had
a reporter in Ohio and that was not my decision.
I actually did not think we needed a reporter in Ohio.
But I'm glad we did because we had a great guy,
Joe Durman, who you know, because he had some some
extra time because I wasn't wasn't as many you know,
he races there, although of course there was one key

(01:07:22):
the Senate race, but he got you know, he really
made some connections with Eric and la Lar Trump and
got some great interviews. But yeah, it's you know, and
it was you know, Sharon Brown, the senator who you know,
has been in there forever. He's he's been you know,
he's he's spent more than Joe said, you know, he's

(01:07:42):
spent more than our lifetime as as a as an
elected politician, which made me realize, Wow, I guess I'm
you know, I'm getting up there. But you know, he
has been an elected politician forever. He's a career politician,
as they say. And he actually finally got unseated by
Bernie Marino, and it was it was fascinating because he

(01:08:03):
was basically the last Democrat left, you know, the last
statewide Democratic office holder left, and he finally so it
does seem like, you know, Ohio is really completed. It's full,
it's full movement from swing state to rent state. And
I think, you know, a big part of that is,
of course, Ohio has a lot of you know, union members,
as we saw in this election, especially the leadership would often.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Yeah, yeah, the workers themselves support of Republican policies because
the Democrats are no longer the party of.

Speaker 6 (01:08:38):
The working class. And I think that's a big part
of what's made Ohio uh pretty solimnly read. Now. It'll
be interesting to see what happens in in in the
next few years, but it looks pretty solidly read. And
I do think it's it's you know, high population of
working class people is a big part of of why
it's changed. And you know, there's there's that kind of

(01:08:59):
fun I think some people have. You know, I haven't
left the Democratic Party, the Democratics.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
Let's left me.

Speaker 5 (01:09:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Yeah, it's like it's like they became a state of
Reagan Democrats.

Speaker 6 (01:09:12):
Yeah, exactly, interesting, good way to put it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
You know, if it's good for the Goose Kelly, it's
good for the Michigander. Is there any thought to have
in the swing state team be a permanent fixture. I mean,
you know, we got another election coming right up. These
things do have national implications twenty twenty six will affect
twenty twenty eighth. I think there's proof of concept. Donald

(01:09:36):
Trump won all seven Swing states. So many stories were
told that wouldn't have been told but for the Swing
state team. Are we going to make that a permanent fixture?

Speaker 6 (01:09:49):
I love that, James. I hadn't you know, I hadn't
even really, you know, I'm so focused on this election.
I hadn't, you know, really stung a lot about the
midterms that are of course, you know people are already
you know, do we campaign for them?

Speaker 5 (01:10:00):
I have we on that.

Speaker 6 (01:10:02):
But it's a great I mean, honestly, it was such.
It was such a great experience to work with everyone,
especially you and I. You know, I wish we could
keep everybody on staff all the time because I do
agree that these stories that you guys told that weren't
told alfho need to be told. They're still going on
and they're going to effect, as you say, what happens

(01:10:23):
going into the midterms, which of course will affect what
happens going into twenty twenty eight.

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
That extra such an election year.

Speaker 6 (01:10:28):
So I like this idea a lot. I have to
have to, you know, subtly drop some hints on that
in the office next week.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
Absolutely, I mean, and and you know, definitely got to
run it back in twenty eight.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
But but why wait? Why wait for twenty eight?

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
That should be the slogan, Kelly, We'll get you out
of here on this one. You know this better than anyone.
You had the contact with all of us.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Why did Donald Trump win the election?

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
And more and more importantly, why does he win all
seven swing states?

Speaker 6 (01:10:59):
Don't Trump? I mean, this year really proved that the
you know, trumped arrangement syndrome, which you know, I do
see a little bit of it on both sides, but
that really proved the Trump's arrangement syndrome is a thickness.
And people were finally finally able to reject the last
four years of insanity, Bidenflation, you know, order sentinal. I mean,

(01:11:25):
he's a.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Law against the president, the president's son.

Speaker 6 (01:11:30):
Oh no, I mean, it's incredible. And Biden on day one,
did you know, all his border stuff that really led
to what we're seeing now. And Kamala Harris did not
you know, she said she would not do anything differently
from Biden, and people people couldn't believe that Donald Trump
had won again. But I knew he was going to win,

(01:11:51):
and because of you guys, I knew he was going
to win clearly, and you know, earlier than you might
expect that election night, which proved to be right, because
you're you are on the ground reporting clued me into
what people were thinking, what they were feeling, what the
big issues were. And they're they're sick of what happened
in the last four years. And they don't They did
not believe Kamala har is going to turn the.

Speaker 4 (01:12:12):
Page a new way forward.

Speaker 6 (01:12:14):
It was not a new way forward. It was the
same stuff of the last four years. In fact, probably
on steroids.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
It would be like if Jimmy Carter ran on a
malaise ticket, Like right.

Speaker 6 (01:12:24):
Oh, that would be funny, but exactly, and and you know,
people is great, you know the you know the obvious question,
of course, said Ronald Reagan's famousf are you better off
now than you were four years ago?

Speaker 5 (01:12:37):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (01:12:38):
And you know, we'll make it five because that last
year of the trumpeters with a pandemic exactly, and people realized, wow,
I was way better off. And you know, Trump increases
support amongst minorities who also realized, hey, wait, I was
better off he's not going to keep say they're gonna
be stuff for me. They never do. And in fact,

(01:12:58):
we had record loan one employement under Trump. We had
more money in our pockets. Think didn't cost so much.
I didn't have to worry about, you know, gangs of
migrants like literally gangs in many cases with trender Ragua
from Venezuela.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
Yeah, the sequel to Gangs of New York is actually
going to be set in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 5 (01:13:21):
I love that, Kelly.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
I want to thank you for taking the time today.
Kelly Jane Torrence, mastermind of the Swing State Team, which
hopefully if people are smart on the East Coast and
those big newspapers, they'll replicate what you just did. Kelly,
thank you so much.

Speaker 6 (01:13:42):
Thank you James. It's really a pleasure to work with
you and to be on the show today. Hello Michigan.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
Absolutely, Kelly, you're awesome. Thank you so yeah. Yeah, I
mean that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
The idea is one thing, but man to put the
recess behind it, to put the team together, to hire
all the people Kelly did, it was nothing short of special.

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
And buy your fruits you'll be known.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
And the fruits of the Swing State Team is just
win Baby.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
Talk to you guys soon.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
We're gonna be We're gonna bring make news local again.
We're gonna bring that discussion local next, and we're gonna
talk about the problem with the Michigan media.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
Talk to you soon.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
What's wrong with the Michigan media. I'm not even sure
I liked that question, because to ask what's wrong with
it is to assume that there's just this little one dot,
like a stain on a cashmere sweater, you know, like
there's just this one little problem. I could ask you
what's right with the Michigan media, and we'd have to
wrap up this broadcast right now because they don't do

(01:14:50):
much right. But what's wrong? We could talk about that
the rest of the show. But in a few minutes
we're gonna talk about We're gonna talk to a young
man I am so excited about.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
Sam. J. Robinson is the founder of Detroit one million. Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
To me, when I when I look at a young
man like Sam, I see the future of Michigan journalism.
Sam holds a trait that's most rare in big time
journalism in Michigan curiosity. Remember what I said earlier about
how some you know, how most of my career. I'm

(01:15:27):
not starting from a blank page. I'm being given the
narrative and you know, basically told to fill in the dots.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
And so you know, when you write a big story
at the Detroit News that could be front page, you
have to fill out what we call a budget. Budget
just tells you, like what the story's gonna be, so,
you know, send me a budget line on your story.
Sometimes though, you would be sent a budget line saying
these are the angles to hit and even these are

(01:15:57):
the people to call.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
That's not an environment that's going to promote truth.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
The best journalism is a product of the curiosity of
a reporter. But when you tell them exactly what marks
to hit, there's no place for curiosity to form. It
assumes that housecat editors who's only exposure to your city
is what they see out their window when they drive

(01:16:25):
home from work, no more than reporters who deal with
people all the time. It's arrogant, it's ignorant, and it
results in the journalism people don't want to read. I
keep talking about this, and I'll have to keep talking
about it until people do adapt. Timely true stories that's

(01:16:46):
the standard, nothing less. Instead, we get stories about, oh
my god, this expose on a guy who was House
speaker in Michigan six years ago. Oh my god, here's
what Donald Trump said about the twenty twenty election. You
have an aversion to these stories, not just because you
might like Trump or because you're defending the speaker, but

(01:17:10):
because you know these are narratives and not news.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
News is supposed to tell you things you don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
All these people are doing is that's reporters telling you
what they think and what they wish were true. And
that's why they all got the election wrong, because they
weren't trying to hit the mark of what's going to
actually happen. And that's why that's the question I asked people.
I ask them, what's going to happen? Not what do

(01:17:39):
you prefer to happen, What's going to happen. If the
media asked that question, they would have answered, honestly, they
stuck to their preferences. They got it wrong. They lost
Sam Robinson after the break One of these days, Robert L.
Peters is actually going to be the host on the
show and people are just going to be shocked. But no, no,

(01:18:01):
Robert L. Peters, No, Justin Barclay Today. This is James
Dixon filling in for Justin. Justin blessed me with this opportunity.
Take it extremely seriously. My guest right now is someone
I actually look up to. He's quite a bit younger
than myself, but he has the bravery and the vision

(01:18:22):
that makes me think he's going to be a player
in this state. For quite some time, Sam Robinson had
a high profile job with Axios Detroit, then he joined
the Free Press during election season. Now he's gone his
own way with a substack news outlet called Detroit one Million. Sam,
thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 5 (01:18:43):
James, thanks for having me. Good to talk to you again.

Speaker 8 (01:18:46):
It's been a.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
Minute, absolutely, Sam. How did Detroit one million come about?

Speaker 5 (01:18:53):
James, I've been thinking about doing this for longer than
my layoff from this August. You know, that was a
lot of fun getting to start a local news outfit
with with two other folks. But as startups go, or
I startups come rather, they go just as fast. And

(01:19:13):
you know that that local product doesn't make any money
at Axeos and local news right now in general is
really scraping by. Both dailies are are really paying attention
to where their budgets are at going into next year,
in terms of hiring, in terms of planning their strategies.

(01:19:34):
So the d trade media market is really changing. I
think now was really the perfect time to do it.
And really, James, to be honest with you, you know,
I had that Mary Sheffield story ready to go. I
I swear to God. I message Chad Live and Good

(01:19:55):
on Twitter and said, do you want Do you guys
want this story? They did not, So I did a
lot them there. I had to publish it somewhere, and
I published it myself. And it just so happened that
the day I launched this substack was giving tu today,
so I was able to sort of take some shine
away from the nonprofit newsrooms across town. But no, you know,

(01:20:18):
we want to support journalism in all forms across the
city and there's really no better time to do so.

Speaker 8 (01:20:25):
Right now.

Speaker 5 (01:20:26):
The substack is called Detroit one million. I'm calling it
a journalism project. Yes, it's going to be more than
the substack, and you guys are going to hopefully see real,
more real soon.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
In the last segment, I was building up to this
one and just telling people that you hold a trait
that I think is so rare in Michigan journalism, which
is curiosity, and that Sheffield story, to me, is inspired
by a curiosity. How did Mary Sheffield come to be
at a party that's celebrating Donald Trump? Essentially? I mean,

(01:21:00):
this is our our Detroit City Council president, deep blue city, doing.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
Something you would not expect.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
And so that's the kind of story a local newspaper
normally would be all over.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
That's that's man Bite's dog.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
That news is about deviations from the norm, and so like,
we never do a story about, oh, these these four
friends in Troy meet every day for every week for
a nickel card game and no one ever gets hurt.
But if a guy gets shot in a game of dice,
that's a news story.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
How was that not viewed as a news story?

Speaker 8 (01:21:36):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
What were you told you had this gold in your hand?
And it wasn't viewed as that? How was it viewed?

Speaker 6 (01:21:44):
Well?

Speaker 5 (01:21:44):
I think part of that goes just into the fact
that it was eleven pm at night, and you know,
people have lives and I want to wake up in
the morning. And I do think there is a real.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Issue.

Speaker 5 (01:21:58):
I wouldn't say it's crisis I really do trust the
a lot of the judgment to a degree. I don't
think you do or some of your audience does. Just
I've worked with these people for the last three years,
you know, I do question the judgment sometimes in terms
of why are these stories elevating these stories not? You know,
it's news tradition and values that like we know, being

(01:22:21):
inside of newsrooms, it's really hard to like articulate that.
And I'm trying to right now, and it's just it's hard.
And because it's subjective. James, you know that it is.
I mean, it's it's subjective. It's you know, bias and forms.
Every newsleaders deem is news. I mean, I just there's
so much James that deserve headlines out of this city.

(01:22:45):
I love Chad Craig and Beth, but it is the
Lansing news operation. You know, they don't have anybody covering
the city right now. Again, I think part of that
goes into the fact that news budgets are strained. I
think everyone in the news in history, from the coast
to the Midwest, biggest brands of the Midwest, Chicago Tribute,

(01:23:05):
in Detroit.

Speaker 9 (01:23:06):
News, They're all looking up and saying, what is happening.
I do think that both of the dailies are in
all right position. We're going to find out what happens
next year with that joint operating agreement has yet to
be renewed. But yeah, it's a really interesting landscape right
now in Michigan media overall, where you know, the Lancing

(01:23:30):
insider stuff is really elevated more than the Detroit politics stuff,
which is a lot of the times a lot more fun.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
Even Charlie Ladoff has expressed frustration at that, you know,
and and his absolute peak, Detroit was still capital city
in Michigan, you know, in our hearts and minds. But
I would say ever since COVID, it has felt like
Lancing is the center of gravity in Michigan. And that's
kind of a mini cop of how we viewed you know,

(01:24:03):
the news nationally. National news matters most, which means DC
news matters most, and then other capitals. So then you have,
you know, fifty capital cities across America which are which
are basically many d c's.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
And I think I wonder if.

Speaker 2 (01:24:21):
The state capitalization of news actually does hurt your ability
to get local news from your community. Like let's think
if Lancing were reimagined. What if there were reporters from
local communities covering Lancing in terms of what's Lancing doing
to Oakland County, what's Lancing doing to Wayne County as

(01:24:44):
opposed to need that?

Speaker 5 (01:24:45):
Yeah, and one needs to do that. Like I feel like,
you know, you had to run Founders of Flint covering
the Dan Kildees like you have, you know, like it
doesn't happen anymore, And maybe it does with run Fonger.
I don't know. But you know those bureaus across the
state with m I they're just I don't even't even know.

(01:25:09):
I had some great reporters. I came from m YS
and I.

Speaker 1 (01:25:14):
Was at him Live before they called it m Live.
It was. It was still an arbor dot com back then.

Speaker 5 (01:25:19):
Yeah, Sam, A.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Lot of people your age when I was your age,
I was one of them, would be angling for a
job at one of the flagship papers, the News or
the Free Press. Man, what gives you the confidence? This
is the confidence I haven't had to go.

Speaker 1 (01:25:35):
Your own way.

Speaker 5 (01:25:38):
When I was at Western Michigan, I was the editor
of the student newspaper called the Western Herald. Shout out
to Kalamazoo Western Michigan University, and I led a twenty
something I think it was like thirty folks. I had
to do byroll and everything.

Speaker 9 (01:25:53):
And payroll payroll, I had to you know, represent the
newspaper on a Roberts Rules bored I learned.

Speaker 5 (01:26:01):
Roberts Rules for the first time, you know, it was
like a legit thing, and I was like, oh, wow,
this is going really great. We did really great stuff there, James, Like,
I think I had the most professional success actually in college,
which is crazy because I feel like I've had a
lot of professional success.

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
Absolutely.

Speaker 5 (01:26:15):
I don't know if well, thank you, you know, I
do think that now it's time.

Speaker 8 (01:26:21):
I think.

Speaker 5 (01:26:24):
The public trusts individuals more than they do in institutions.
Why that is, you know, you can get into that.
I don't even know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:33):
Well, I have a theory on that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
I mean, think about it like a Joe Rogan right
or yourself, for myself, Charlie Ludolph, anyone. There's an honesty
in saying all I offer is one take out of
eight billion, whereas there's a dishonesty in saying this is
the only right thing you could think. And if you
don't think this one thing, you're anti this, or you're racist,

(01:26:58):
or you're some kind of sexist, or people want information
they don't have, not values they've chosen to not subscribe to,
and the news gives them the latter rather than the former.
And so I can I can listen to a guy
I don't agree with because I on the NAMA stay level.

(01:27:19):
I get that he's just another one of one of
the eight billion, one of the ten million in Michigan.
But don't tell me there's one way that's that to me?
Is the error they make? What do you think?

Speaker 5 (01:27:31):
I think a lot of the errors they make is
they're so uncapped in with the communities. I really do
think James, like you have you know, a Detroit News
and Detroit Free Press where it's like who are you
people like, yeah, de Troyers know who we all are?
Like you don't go outside. I don't see you on
Thursday nights, Friday night, Saturday nights, and Howiday Sunday events.

(01:27:53):
You know what I'm saying. I'm outside, Like you can
find me out in about I can't find a lot
of ways barn friends that I do find out about,
you know. Shout out to Andrewsry, Shout out to Malachi Barring.
You know, shout out to Bryce Hoffman at Bridge. Yeah,
shout out to Claire Hendrickson at the Free Pressure. He's

(01:28:13):
outside and about and around. You know, there are people
that really want to be part of the communities in
which they are covering, and then there is a And
I think it's just generational, honestly. You know, I think
when you I mean you're you might know, I mean
more you get older and you want to stay home more.
Is that what's going to happen to me?

Speaker 1 (01:28:33):
You think, Oh, it's a million to happen to you.

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
It's the same thing that happens to boxers, man, when
they start sleeping on silk sheets.

Speaker 1 (01:28:41):
Eventually you're not a boxer anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:28:44):
Yeah, I know, man, And is that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
Extreme outlier who, despite having all the success in the world,
still gets after it like he's on his you know,
ten week internship at the New York Times trying to
hang on.

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
I've never seen.

Speaker 5 (01:28:58):
Anything like all say, you know, in defense I will
say I'm the show, you know, in defense of of uh,
you know, the mainstream, the MSM and the local news
reporters that are sort of being democratic activists while being
local newsporgers. A lot of those people are still doing
good work and they're just doing there's humans doing jobs.
You know, I will say, you know, we're we're mostly

(01:29:23):
our program is mostly conservative listeners. I do think, you know, guys,
it's time to uh realize what's happening in in across
the state, really focusing on Detroit, that the realignment happening,
you know, this economic populism. I do think when you
get James Homan of the Macanon Policy Center and my

(01:29:44):
friend Kamal Clark's like replies saying we need more diversity
of thought on questioning sore and economic incentives for large corporations.
You know, Republican leaders right now are are using language
that you you know, assume to be for the people,

(01:30:05):
while Democrats are are using the language of the business elites.
It's a really interesting time right now in Michigan.

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
Absolutely, Sam, what is your hope ultimately for Detroit one million?

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
How much do you know about what it might look
like a year from now?

Speaker 5 (01:30:21):
Well, I really want to do insider stuff that you
would never read elsewhere. Yeah, reporting on the mayor's race,
on the already started Governortoya race that Dugan seemingly jump
started this.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
Week and you are in position to the mayor's race.

Speaker 5 (01:30:42):
Well, I'm going to try, you know, I'm going to
have some steep competition. Dana a Fauna at the Detroit
Free prend Yeah, Malachi Barrett at Bridge Detroit. You know
you can find malatit on in Fox two. We've been
hopping on Rupe Raj's show at eleven thirty pm. He
and he gave me. He gave me a out last
night about Detroit one million. I really want to know, guys,

(01:31:04):
Michigan Anders are growing up in a generation without a
city with a million people in it. That's a lot
different than living in a state with a city with
one million people. There were competing.

Speaker 10 (01:31:16):
Forces right now trying to shape the city back to
get past what it was in the nineties and early
two thousands. Detroit is one of the you know, it's
one of the largest cities to have had such drastic
population decreased.

Speaker 5 (01:31:30):
There are people work.

Speaker 1 (01:31:31):
Just lost a million, right, lost.

Speaker 5 (01:31:38):
One million people. That was the only city to ever
do that. Population council we are, you know, Devern Wimber
tried last year with the Shirley Stankato John Raccolta population
Council didn't really work out because it was a bipartisan mess,
you know, and that's like, yeah, we're going to see it.
We're going to see what happens. Mike Duggan in his

(01:32:01):
goodbye speech at City Council when he announced that he
was no longer seeking reelection, he said, Michigan's greatest export
is no longer cars, it's young people. I think he's right.

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
He's exactly right, and we're gonna find out.

Speaker 5 (01:32:18):
We're gonna find out if he's if he's you know,
what do he wants to do about it?

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:32:23):
Well, Sam, you're one of the great young people. And
thank god we've been able to keep you around.

Speaker 1 (01:32:28):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:32:28):
All the success on Detroit one million. And thank you
for taking the time.

Speaker 8 (01:32:32):
Today, James.

Speaker 5 (01:32:34):
Thank you. I really appreciate you. Every time I see
you around, I get a kick out of it.

Speaker 8 (01:32:39):
Man, do you do anything?

Speaker 1 (01:32:40):
Hey? B blessed Sam?

Speaker 8 (01:32:43):
Thank you?

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
Right? So that was good stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:32:48):
I mean this, When you see a guy fifteen years
younger than you who has the goal to go out
on his own, it just makes you want to find
that adventurer within yourself. And that's part of what we're
doing at the Enjoyer project. So really cheering for Sam
because Michigan surely needs new voices.

Speaker 1 (01:33:12):
You know, I'm not the kind.

Speaker 2 (01:33:14):
Of guy who's going to criticize you without also giving
you some advice.

Speaker 1 (01:33:19):
If I think it's.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
Worth my time, if it's worth the air leaving my
lungs for me to speak on you, I'm also going
to help you dig your way out. So here's my
advice for the Michigan media. You guys might want to
turn up your radios a little bit. Guys, it's not
dark yet, but it's getting there.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
Know this.

Speaker 2 (01:33:42):
No, it wasn't just the Democrats who were rejected on
November fifth. It was also the media that covers four
Democrats rather than covering them. Our flagship papers in Michigan,
the Detroit News and Detroit Free Press, are both looking
for new homes after the new year. They were last

(01:34:05):
seen out begging for dimes, beggars for one month's subscriptions
for ten cents, by numbers, by image, by esteem, by
influence over events. The data could not be clearer. What
you're doing is not working, and so you have two choices.
When what you're doing is not working, adapt or die.

(01:34:31):
I have a theory about what went wrong in Michigan.
I think there was two things, and they happened pretty
much bang banged back to back. Twenty sixteen, Donald Trump
is elected. This was an embarrassment to the political media
because all these experts who are so called experts self
styled experts, when people ask them, you know, Thanksgiving twenty fifteen, Hey,

(01:34:56):
do you think this Trump thing is going to be anything?

Speaker 1 (01:34:59):
We've seen him.

Speaker 2 (01:34:59):
Talk, we've seen him run before and it wasn't really serious.
But is he real this time? And the expert political
reporter told him, told his friend, who's a landscaper or
a janitor or a farmer, told him, no, of course not.
Of course Trump can't win. Trump will never win. And
what did he do that next November? Now, imagine being

(01:35:24):
that reporter and going back to your hometown and running
into the landscaper, the janitor, the farmer, and they understood
that Donald Trump could win, They thought he would win.
You told him it was impossible, And you were supposed
to be the expert on politics.

Speaker 1 (01:35:42):
It's not policy.

Speaker 2 (01:35:45):
It's certainly not policy that makes Democrats act so hysterically
at the mere mention of Donald Trump's name.

Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
It's not policy.

Speaker 2 (01:35:55):
It's the fact that Donald Trump won without their permission
and made them all look like fools when he won,
and he's done it twice now. Then another thing happened
in Michigan, which is the COVID pandemic. Regardless of how
real you believe that to have been, and I do not.

(01:36:16):
Let's face facts about what happened the COVID pandemic is
when the Michigan media stopped covering Democrats like Gretchen Whitmer,
our governor, and they started covering for her. This philosophy
of we're all in it together took hold across the land.
But we're all in it together doesn't appear in any

(01:36:37):
journalism how to book you'll ever read.

Speaker 1 (01:36:40):
It's not a thing. And this was not a war.

Speaker 2 (01:36:43):
This was not a matter of national security where you
put things aside for the good of the good of
the USA.

Speaker 1 (01:36:51):
This wasn't that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:54):
This was a woman telling you to stay home, that
all ten million people needed to respond the same way
to a virus.

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
That's never been true in your lifetime.

Speaker 2 (01:37:06):
It wasn't true, then it won't be true the next
time when they say we need to lock down for
climate or whatever the excuse is going to be. Then
when you adopt a we're all in it together mentality,
you have stopped doing the work of journalism. And so
those reporters that Sam just mentioned, the one he respects
in Lancing, I don't have as much respect to give.

(01:37:30):
Look twenty twenty, we had our governor shred the Michigan constitution.
And if what you're doing is unconstitutional, it's also illegal
by carrying on an emergency government for months and months,
Michigan gives you what twenty eight days, thirty days. There's
no such thing as a month long emergency. That was

(01:37:51):
all fake news, and they ate up every little bit
of it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:56):
Look out now the landscape has changed.

Speaker 2 (01:37:58):
I hope you guys enjoyed the those record numbers you
bragged about in twenty twenty, because that was with the
captive audience, and the captives have left.

Speaker 1 (01:38:08):
Look around.

Speaker 2 (01:38:09):
You got Detroit one million, You got Patriot Postgirl to
make or break any story she wants with her memes,
no BS News Hour, the Enjoyer podcast. There's too much
competition for you to keep doing what you're doing.

Speaker 11 (01:38:24):
Adapt or die.

Speaker 1 (01:38:38):
We talk so much.

Speaker 2 (01:38:39):
About what's wrong with the Michigan media, but the Michigan
Enjoyer is our attempt to try to set it right.
You know, we had kind of a radical thesis when
we started the Enjoyer project, which is that you could
actually write and sound like you're having fun, and you
could actually make it sounds like Michigan was a fun

(01:39:01):
place to live. If there's one thing that our media
market is lacking entirely, honesty comes and goes. Accuracy really
depends on the day, depends on the reporter, depends on
the individual story. But enjoyment and fun and perhaps you know,

(01:39:24):
living off the fat of the land, perhaps talking about
the beauty of the state that calls us all home. Look, man,
we live in an out of the way state. Michigan
is not a place that you wind up accidentally. It's
not Ohio or Missouri. You don't drive through it to
get somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (01:39:45):
You have to choose Michigan. And the coolest thing about.

Speaker 2 (01:39:49):
Michigan is that we share a state with ten million
neighbors who have chosen Michigan. My guess right now is
Mark Naida. Mark Nida is managed editor of The Michigan Enjoyer.
You could say he's my boss. He has a lot
of great ideas about how to cover our beautiful state,
how to show the the the personalities and the storylines

(01:40:13):
of our state. Mark, thank you for joining us today.

Speaker 8 (01:40:17):
Thank you for having me, James Mark.

Speaker 2 (01:40:19):
We'll start you here with the the infamous, famous podcast question,
what do you enjoy about Michigan?

Speaker 3 (01:40:29):
You know, Michigan is a place that you know, my
ancestors chose for me, and I'm so glad they did.
I grew up in Monroe, so in a lot of
ways was also felt pretty connected to Ohio and and
felt the difference between once you cross the state line,

(01:40:50):
that the culture wasn't quite where I belonged. But yeah,
I mean it's what everybody says, the four Seasons, the
full Lakes, and and really.

Speaker 8 (01:41:03):
Just a sense that.

Speaker 3 (01:41:05):
You know, living here, that I'm among my people. You know,
I've I've worked in you know, mainstream media and New
York City and elsewhere, and you know, you're just there
and and you feel like these people don't really get me.
They don't know, uh, they don't know really what it's
like to be from Southeast Michigan. And and you know,

(01:41:26):
to live among among Michiganders who who value much of
the same things and have and have sort of a
sort of just down home beliefs.

Speaker 8 (01:41:37):
Absolutely, that's what I'm about Michigan.

Speaker 1 (01:41:39):
Now, Mark, what is the Enjoyer Project?

Speaker 2 (01:41:42):
And I'm sure people are listening and saying, Man, these
guys sound so cool, I'd like to join them. I'd
like to become a Michigan Enjoyer. What is the Enjoyer project?
What is a Michigan Enjoyer?

Speaker 8 (01:41:55):
Michigan Enjoyer.

Speaker 3 (01:41:56):
We want to be a media outlet that is an
and todo to the boring, antiquated state news apparatus that
we currently have in Michigan. You know, the the our
to Detroit newspapers, our various other news outlets around the state.

Speaker 8 (01:42:14):
It is doom and gloom.

Speaker 3 (01:42:16):
It is the The cultural things that we celebrate are all,
you know, things that are just on the periphery of
what Michiganers really care about. So Enjoyer, we we want
to write about snowmobile culture in the state. We want
we want to write about, you know, what what the

(01:42:37):
d NR is doing to the steps at Marblehead, which
recently just got graded down to to to the outrage
of all the off roading enthusiasts in in northern Michigan.
You know, we want to write about people who are
doing incredible things in our state and and who had

(01:42:58):
big ideas to help Michigan and grow and become an
even better place to live and attract you people to
live here.

Speaker 2 (01:43:04):
You know, I was excited to see your name the
other day on the website. You actually, you know, you
dip your pin back into the ink with what I
thought was a great story.

Speaker 1 (01:43:15):
Bad weather makes us good?

Speaker 2 (01:43:18):
Now, Mark, I gotta tell you, man, as I drove
here today and it was about twenty degrees and I
live like three minutes from the studio, so there's no
chance the car is going to be warmed up at
all by the time you get to point. B Am
I good? Or am I just limited? Am I good?
If it's not my choice to be good? But its

(01:43:38):
circumstances that make me good.

Speaker 8 (01:43:42):
You know, you need to cultivate.

Speaker 3 (01:43:47):
A level of fortitude to endure a Michigan winter, and
there is something about that that gets you used to sacrifice,
and that makes you more open to the sorts of
things that are sanctifying. And you know, I think especially

(01:44:07):
you know, lentth occurs in sort of mid midwinter and
extends through Easter, and man, aren't those some hard days
in Michigan. There's not a lot of sunshine. It might still,
it might still snow. We've been dealing with this forever
and you know, fasting and prayer are all happening at

(01:44:27):
the same time, and it just it.

Speaker 8 (01:44:29):
Really marries beautifully.

Speaker 3 (01:44:31):
And yeah, so I think I do think that for
church goers, for people who observe the sort of the
liturgical seasons, Michigan's weather really helps them to do that.

Speaker 8 (01:44:45):
You know, in advent this time that.

Speaker 3 (01:44:47):
We're currently in, of waiting and prayer during Christmas, the
weather sort of tells you that waiting and praying is
the thing that you're probably best to spend your time doing.

Speaker 2 (01:44:57):
You know, it's funny you say that, because that's than
I had to learn. For years I struggled with seasonal depression.
And the thing that actually changed it.

Speaker 1 (01:45:07):
It's so counterintuitive.

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
I've heard about light hats and more light, more light,
more light, no, no, no. What changed it for me
was actually putting up blackout curtains because it gave my
apartment at the time kind of this feeling like a
casino where you never knew how dark it was, or
you never knew what time it was because it was

(01:45:29):
always dark, and so I'd go outside, you know, fiveho
three pm and it's pitch dark, and I'm like, man,
it's bright outside.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
It just you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:45:40):
I would have always thought that more light was the answer,
and it turned out that embracing the dark is the answer.
It turned out that listening to the sound of the seasons,
if it's dark and cold, why not go to bed earlier?

Speaker 8 (01:45:58):
Exactly?

Speaker 2 (01:45:58):
If it's light and why not stay up? Why not
wake up earlier? Like the seasons are telling us what
to do?

Speaker 1 (01:46:06):
But do we listen.

Speaker 8 (01:46:08):
Exactly? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:46:10):
And why not light a candle? You know, if you
want a little extra light?

Speaker 8 (01:46:13):
Why why need you know, crazy overhead lighting?

Speaker 2 (01:46:19):
Now, the Enjoyer has an assemblage of talent like I've
never seen, certainly in Michigan. Got Bobby Mars, we got
Mitch Miller, we got ow Root, we got Charlie Leduff.

Speaker 1 (01:46:31):
We have a living legend.

Speaker 2 (01:46:35):
When you pitched it to writers, well, how do you
explain what the enjoyer is and what it's looking for?

Speaker 8 (01:46:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:46:45):
The first thing that I would say is, you know,
writing great stories is essential, but having great photos and
great video to go along with it, and going to
help people care about about the stories we tell. So
when I'm thinking about stories, I always want there to
be a kinetic element. I mean, the classic policy story

(01:47:08):
with the photo of the Capitol building and lansing like,
that's not me, that's not enjoyer. You know, we got
we got to get ground level. We've got to talk
to people. You know, if we're doing a policy story,
we want to talk to the people who this is affecting.
Harbor Springs just recently went through a whole redistricting fight
that we wrote about and where other new news outlets

(01:47:31):
got so granular about, you know, this zoning commission, what's
going to happen on this block?

Speaker 8 (01:47:37):
We went, we go, we go.

Speaker 3 (01:47:39):
Why we talked to We talked to people who they
just want they don't they don't want where they live
to change, and what a zoning reform would do is fundamentally.

Speaker 8 (01:47:50):
Changed this kind of gem of you know, an.

Speaker 3 (01:47:53):
Early twentieth century downtown in one of the most beautiful
corners of the state. So, you know, we could have
written a policy story, but instead we wrote the human story,
and we had beautiful photography and video to go along
with it. And you know, if we're doing a pol
story like that, and if we're doing a story that

(01:48:14):
is just maybe a profile of a place, we just
want an angle that shows, like why why this doesn't
exist anywhere else on earth?

Speaker 8 (01:48:22):
It's only here in Michigan.

Speaker 2 (01:48:25):
Now, I'm sure some people are listening to this and thinking, man,
I might have a story, you know, I might have
an angle. I might have a take. What kind of
writers are you looking for? What kind of stories are
you looking for? Is there anything that that maybe is
on your wish list of I wish someone had something
on this that you just haven't seen it yet that

(01:48:45):
you'd love. What would you tell someone who's trying to
become that Enjoyer and become that contributor?

Speaker 8 (01:48:53):
First, I would give them my email.

Speaker 3 (01:48:55):
And we have an awesome URL for our website which
is enjoyer dot com. You can't get it, and so
I my email is Mark at enjoyer dot com M
A r K. So that's easy enough. But gosh, do
we really need someone to be to help us cover
the Lake Huron coast north of Saginaw that play like, really,

(01:49:16):
it's not a part of the state that has a
ton of people in it, right, But but you know,
people always share maps of the state and circle that
and say.

Speaker 8 (01:49:26):
Ask the question what goes on up here?

Speaker 3 (01:49:28):
And I think everyone would like to know more about
the people who live in Alpina and and around there,
because it's not a state you hear much about. They
don't have much of a news apparatus covering it, and.

Speaker 8 (01:49:45):
I would love to be that.

Speaker 3 (01:49:46):
I mean, we have great stories from the up great
stories from you know, the the Traverse City region.

Speaker 8 (01:49:52):
We have all of.

Speaker 3 (01:49:53):
Southern of you know, southern Michigan, from west coast to
east coast. We have people to write about that. But yeah,
you get to the less populous parts of the state
and gosh, you just know that there's great stories of
people doing awesome outdoor things, of people who whose whose
lives have not maybe changed all that much with the

(01:50:14):
advents of the internet.

Speaker 8 (01:50:15):
And mass media.

Speaker 3 (01:50:16):
And I would love to help have someone help us
tell those stories.

Speaker 2 (01:50:21):
You know, Mark, I think about our work culture, right,
Detroit put the world on wheels. Before Detroit, we were
at a logging economy. Even our recreation right Jay z Delorian,
one of our contributors, took me shooting for the first
time the other day. So both in our work and

(01:50:44):
our leisure, we're a physical people in Michigan.

Speaker 1 (01:50:48):
What do you make of that?

Speaker 3 (01:50:51):
I think it, you know it people who were Everyone
who lived in Michigan at some point in the recent
in recent history has ancestors who worked with their hands,
you know. And and it's you know, our our ancestors.
And you know, many Michiganders currently are people who think that,

(01:51:13):
and rightly so that an honest ay's work involves feeling
physically tired afterward.

Speaker 8 (01:51:17):
Not just mentally spent.

Speaker 3 (01:51:19):
Yes, And what I find amazing is that, you know,
people will go put put in a double at the factory,
go home and sleep for a few hours, and then
go deer hunting in the morning. You know, this is there.
There there's energy, you know, there's there's a vitality. You know,
people who just drink a few cups of Max ball
House and keep going. You know, it's not it's people

(01:51:42):
think of of, you know, the North as a sleepy state,
but you know it's it's a state of energy of
people who are who are really trying to give everything
they can to provide for their families and and to
have fun while doing it. And to pass down traditions.
And you know, those those people are.

Speaker 8 (01:52:03):
The original Enjoyers.

Speaker 3 (01:52:04):
You know, they weren't they weren't thinking about, you know,
the sunny climbs of Florida.

Speaker 8 (01:52:08):
They were thinking.

Speaker 3 (01:52:09):
About how they could best enjoy the next season and
how much time they could take to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:52:16):
Off work, Mark, We'll get you out of here on
this one.

Speaker 2 (01:52:20):
Obviously, it's been a great start since since July third,
that is my personal independence Day.

Speaker 1 (01:52:26):
Going forward, what's coming in twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:52:28):
Five, Yeah, in twenty twenty five, we are we're going
to have you know, essentially more podcasts.

Speaker 8 (01:52:38):
Our newsletter is going to grow.

Speaker 3 (01:52:40):
You can sign up for that on our website at
enjoyer dot com. We're going to have more original video content.

Speaker 8 (01:52:46):
We're going to.

Speaker 3 (01:52:47):
Have more great stories about what's happening in the state.
The governor's race is coming. We'll be weighing in on
all the people who are throwing their hats in for
the ring. Charlie Leduff particularly is looking at chops to
cover Mike Duggan's independent campaign for the governorship.

Speaker 8 (01:53:06):
And yeah, but all.

Speaker 3 (01:53:08):
Positive, and we would just love anyone who's interested in
contributing in you know, in reading for us. Yeah, reach out,
subscribe to our newsletter and we will give you great
stories about our state. And also follow us on Twitter,
m ich Underscore, Enjoyer and on Instagram as well.

Speaker 2 (01:53:33):
Absolutely, Mark, thank you so much for taking the time.
The Enjoyer project could not be more exciting. People are
really embracing it. It's just really cool and it was
great to hear your voice this morning.

Speaker 1 (01:53:44):
Thank you, sir.

Speaker 8 (01:53:46):
All right, thank you, James.

Speaker 2 (01:53:50):
We're gonna come back in a few minutes, and I'm
going to have some final thoughts, not.

Speaker 1 (01:53:56):
About politics per se about life. See soon. One of
my favorite songs is to.

Speaker 2 (01:54:11):
All the girls I loved before, to all the girls
I loved before who traveled in.

Speaker 1 (01:54:16):
And out my door, and along that line, I'd like
to hand out some thank yous as we moved to
the next program here.

Speaker 2 (01:54:26):
This was my first time ever hosting a radio show,
and certainly you know, it's my first time doing anything probably.

Speaker 1 (01:54:33):
For three hours. So this whole thing was a blessing
and I thank God for this.

Speaker 2 (01:54:40):
I thank God for waking me up today and putting
breath in my body. I think my mom who put
the pen in my hand and thought to keep it
there when other people thought, Oh, he's gonna run around,
he's gonna poke his eye out with the pen.

Speaker 1 (01:54:55):
She knew that the pen is mightier.

Speaker 2 (01:54:58):
I think Justin Barclay and thankful that we just heard
a Justin Barclay commercial, because man, when you hear that voice,
it just warms your heart. You just hear Justin and
you trust him and you know things will be okay.
I want to thank John J. Miller, my first mentor
in journalism. John is a true Michigan man who's also

(01:55:20):
made himself a Hillsdale man. He directs a journalism program
at Hillsdale and John's Catholic. But I would call him
an evangelist for journalism. But for John J. Miller, I
might be a lawyer right now, a very middling lawyer,
because that was never my passion. That was not my gift.
It's just something I thought I wanted to do because

(01:55:43):
it's something you say as a young guy at Michigan.
He helped me find my real passion by connecting me
to opportunities in journalism. I want to thank Al Regnery,
who gave me my first journalism job at The American
Spectator after John's recommendation, and I want to thank Walter Middlebrook.
He spotted me as one of the Collegiate Network fellows

(01:56:07):
at the Spectator, then brought me back to Detroit as
a second year journalist at the Detroit News. I want
to thank the Collegiate Network for funding the first two
fellowships that started my career. They say the first job
is the hardest one to get. Getting your foot in
the door in journalism is so hard, because what the

(01:56:28):
heck can a twenty three to twenty four year old
honestly say they can add as far as value? Not much,
not much, But it's the opportunity that allows for the growth.
But for those opportunities, you don't know who I am.
I might not know who I am. I want to
thank Nolan Finley, who, after hosting me at that fellowship,

(01:56:52):
I was a twenty four year old on the Detroit
News editorial page writing editorials, even wrote a column that
first year. I want to think the late John Wollman
of the Detroit News who saw maybe something there wasn't
even there and a young kid trying to make his
way back to Detroit. I want to thank Charlie Leduff,

(01:57:13):
one of my earliest mentors. As an employed journalist, Charlie
put his arms around a second year journalist and that's
been a friendship I've been blessed with for fifteen years
since and has gone far beyond mentorship.

Speaker 1 (01:57:28):
I think my dad, who made sure.

Speaker 2 (01:57:30):
That when we moved from Inkster to Detroit that we
didn't go to schools in Detroit, we actually got the
best education possible. He made sure we went to West
Bloomfield High School and

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Crime Junkie

Ridiculous History

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}James Dickson guest host (910AM) 12-6-24

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Crime Junkie

Ridiculous History

All Episodes

James Dickson guest host (910AM) 12-6-24

On Purpose with Jay Shetty