June 25, 2024 • 36 mins
Dr. Ashley and the Boss talk with board-certified music therapist Rebekah Smith about the transformative effects of music in the lives of people struggling with mental and emotional stress. Bekah can be reached at 216.285.4070. Learn more at: https://www.uhhospitals.org/services/integrative-health-network/our-services/music-therapy
(Record Date: June 11, 2024)
(Record Date: June 11, 2024)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome. You're listening to the KeepingAshland Healthy Podcast, a podcast production of
the Mental Health and Recovery Board ofAshland County, Ohio. Thanks for joining
us, and welcome back to anotherepisode of Doctor Ashley and the Boss.
We are in studio, Doctor Ashley. How are you doing? I'm good?
How are you today? I'm doingit? Okay, good, I'm
better because we have a super specialguest we do in the studio with us.
(00:27):
It's exciting, I think, sono pressure, but we think she
might be one of our best guestsever. Yeah, I just don't tell
the others. Oh that's a goodpoint. Wow. In the studio,
we really are pleased because Beca Smith. Some of you might recall we mentioned
Becca before when we were talking aboutthe RSVP conference where she was a presenter
(00:49):
and we thought she did just awonderful job. She is a music therapist,
board certified with University Hospitals and sheworks over at the Connor Whole Health
Center there on Samaritan as well asothers I think branch locations within the medical
system. But Becca is going totalk to us about music therapy. What
that actually looks like? Uh,there's just missing facts we're going to go
(01:11):
over, but we're excited for ouraudience to understand better what music therapy is,
how it can be helpful, butalso just to get I don't know
Becca Smith a little bit. SoBecca, welcome to the studio. Welcome,
Hello, Thanks for having me.Did we build it up to bit?
Yeah, it's good. I hada laugh in there. Sorry,
that is honored to be here.No, And I think we talked before
(01:36):
about having Candace Wrestler, who youknow and you co presented with Candace spoke
to our audience about art therapy andmusic therapy is just another one of those
I think emerging practices that for somefolks that are maybe struggling the regular basic
talk therapy that we've been doing foryears, it has its place, but
(01:57):
art and music therapy, we thinkfor other folks that might be the preferred
avenue or venue for them to connect. So that's why we're so excited about
what you're doing. And as weget into the episode today, if you
feel comfortable, yeah, well we'llask you, you know, without breaking
any phi, you know, tellus a little bit, you know,
as we go through this, howmaybe you've seen this impact folks in a
(02:20):
positive way, because we heard fromCanvas that, you know, particularly with
some of the younger folks she workswith, are folks that have a trauma
history. You know, the regulartalk therapy was just not really getting anywhere.
The person was kind of stuck.But once you go down a different
avenue, all of a sudden youstart to learn stuff. They learn stuff
about themselves, and discussion gets Idon't know, just more free flowing and
(02:44):
productive for everybody. So what doyou think, doctor, You're excited about
this one. I'm this. Ilove music. You know that, so
as the audience knows, Doctor Ashleyand I have a very different musical taste.
Yes we do. We'll have totalk about that, if that's okay,
we can as a music therapist.I would like to be well,
I think so, yes, I'myou know, of all the things about
(03:06):
doctor Ashley, I appreciate that isthe one that bothers me the most.
Becca she does. She really hasmuch more demon qualities. But we'll definitely
have to dig into that a littlebit. And I shared with you my
love of eighties hair bangs. Yes, she she does not share that.
I don't really like that, butI love that you love it. Yeah,
(03:28):
Hey, that's that's supportive. Yeah, it's not good enough for you.
I need a little bit more.I need more than that. I
needed somebody to build out some ofthose choruses with me. Oh so sorry,
she refuses, can't be me.You know, maybe maybe one day
I want to keep working on it. That's right, work in progress.
(03:50):
Well, Becca, it might behelpful for folks, because again, I'm
going to assume there's a lot offolks listening that they just they've never experienced
music therapy firsthand, don't know anybodywho has, So it may be helpful
just to give folks in the audiencean overview about kind of what it looks
like, what it sounds like,and uh, maybe we can bust some
(04:11):
myths or common misperceptions people have aboutwhat it is and what it isn't so
take it away back up. Yeah, that sounds good. I think we
could even maybe combine those ts okay, because you know, oftentimes when you
think of music, I think alot of people go back to their childhood.
Maybe their first interaction with music isin fifth grade band or elementary school
(04:34):
like that's that might have been thelast time for a lot of the community
patients I work with, that wasthe last time they played an instrument.
So if you go back to that, you know, it's like music education
is their first interaction with with music, and so it's it's kind of that
educative role, and you have tomake sure you're playing the recorder. You
(04:55):
know. I think the recorder istriggering for some people. I okay,
I love that. You love thatsuper fun? Do you like listening to
it? I mean it probably soundsawful, but when I was a kid,
I love well, you know,it's all very foreign to Maybe next
next time I see you, guyswill have to bring in some recorders.
(05:15):
The recorder is I don't know what. Oh, okay, it's like the
like it's like it's like a longplastic instrument that you to but holes on
it a lot more cringier, likesorry, like a piccolo. No,
no, that's great, that soundsbeautiful. It's past. We loved it
(05:36):
though. It was fun. Todo a recorder episode, I'd be great.
But you're thinking a lot of folks, that's that's kind of the memory
they have associated and it's that maybekeeps them limited in what it really is
because that's their own experience. Okay, that makes sense at least when it
comes to playing an instrument. Yeah. I think a lot of people are
(05:56):
obviously open to listening to music,sure, because music is everywhere we go
weddings, events, sports, games, everything. Even like going to a
grocery store. There's music playing inthe background a lot of times. Eighties
music. Yes, I will say, yes, it helps you shop.
It makes you feel good about spendingyour money. You know, when bacon's
over ten dollars, you still buyit because deth Lefford is playing in the
(06:20):
background that But you see what I'mdealing with back, she will it's terrible.
Okay. So maybe at the coffeeI don't know, can we talk
about what kind of music you like? So if I like a lot of
different kinds, that's really like myleast favorite, but eighties yeah, oh
(06:45):
like metalcore is my favorite. Hmm. So maybe if we're going to I
don't know, what's where are someplaces you would walk into and there's that
playing nowhere, like that chamber,say, like a coffee shop. Like
you're you're saying, I like chillViBe's acoustic. I like that too,
Yeah, chi Vibes is that whatthey play at Goldberry. Yeah, yeah,
(07:09):
I would say they have ChIL vibeprobably like some indie pop yea indie
low fi. Everyone I like tostudy to Mumford's getting it is everybody.
You can't escape music. It's ubiquitous. M Yes, it's everywhere home.
May or may not go home andlook that up, but you know,
(07:30):
just for extra understanding, but yeah, for sure. All right. So
when you first maybe introduced the idea, is that how it usually goes?
So because they're probably the patient orthe person is unaware of it as a
venue. Is it Usually you maybe suggesting that, you know, hey,
would you be interested in music therapy? And then you get probably all
kinds of questions like what's that?Yes, all all types of responses,
(07:55):
which keeps it exciting and interesting becauseif you think about the medical sense,
if you just imagine just sitting inthere for a second, you're distressful.
You're distressed like the thought of it, because there's there's beeps, there's sounds,
there's people running around, there's acute care happening, and just a
(08:16):
stressful, high stakes environment. Andso if you think about pulling in an
instrument into that or mentioning music everyone'slike, what are you talking about?
Or if they see I have acart that I push around that has a
keyboard and a guitar on my musictherapy gear, I leave it in the
hallway when I do my assessment sessionswith my patients. When they see me
pushing that around, they're just like, is that a guitar? You know,
(08:37):
Normally, if you see a guitarat a church or something, it's
like everyone knows it's a guitar.But when they're in the hospital, they
have to ask is that a guitar? They don't expect it. Is that
guitar here in this hospital? Doyou know how to play the guitar?
Yeah, that's another question. No, you know, I'm just pushing it
around. I just found this.I found this in somebody's room, yes,
(09:01):
and now I'm just giving it aright. Yeah, so interesting,
it does. There's a lot ofI don't know if we want to call
them barriers or kind of just likemental blocks, just the idea of accessibility
to this more specialized idea and care. But then if you pull in the
therapy part to add talk about music, that is another whole whole level too.
(09:24):
So a lot of times it's justyou know, do you like music.
Here's the specialized service that we have. It's really here just to help
support you. Like you're going throughit right now and you're in a hospital
and if you feel like, youknow, this is something you might benefit
from or if you're open to tryingit, here's what we can do,
and here's some options, and thisis what it could look like. Well,
(09:46):
like, how do folks typically respondwhen you kind of open it up
and introduce that concept to a lotof them take advantage or they want to
wait and think about it, orhow do they usually respond? Yeah,
everyone's across the board and does alot of you know, age and population
player role up to that too.I think if they like music, you
(10:09):
know, they might be more opento it. But it's also in the
hospital, like maybe they have aprocedure that day, or like they just
got launched, so you're it's it'sanything goes. But yeah, if they're
opening and trying it, then wejust talk through what that looks like.
And they also have their right becausewe really value autonomy as as music therapists
and through our program, like youknow, you have so many people coming
(10:31):
in to your room that you don'thave a choice over what's going on a
lot of times, but you dohave a choice over music therapy. So
yeah, sometimes maybe they're like,come back, let me think about it.
You know, here's this prochure,come back the next day. So
it's a range of of reaction.Or sometimes they're just like, oh my
gosh, I love music, Likecan you come in right now? I'm
having like an anxiety attack, likelike and I need this so right and
(10:54):
I'm reillated to give it a try. How aboutes age and population player role,
it's a good question. Yeah,yeah, Like I think for a
lot of the I don't want tooffend anybody either, but I could I
guess we could say like generally theyounger, younger folks are more open to
(11:16):
you know, like a specialized serviceor even just kind of and I think
that's great. Like what you guysdo here too, is normalizing the idea
of talking about mental health and normalizingtalking about therapy and that it's it's there's
not something like wrong with you,right, or you don't have a problem
or an issue that needs to youknow, be pointed fingers at you if
(11:37):
you're going to therapy. But soI think generally, yeah, younger,
younger folks are more open to it, and then makes sense if they're if
they're older, they just like theylove music, and we might not even
talk about the therapy aspect of itas much. It's just more of like,
let's talk about your youth and howdoes that make you happy and take
your mind off of being at thehospital. See. Yeah, I think
(11:58):
that's that's really clever back because Imean, even if you don't actually get
into the formal music therapy proper,just you made a connection, You've probably
reduced some of their anxiety and stressand probably blood pressure and other things have
come down just because you've opened upan avenue that they probably weren't expecting,
you know, and here you areconnecting with somebody. And doctor Ashley and
(12:20):
I talk about a lot about theimportance of connection regardless of the age,
young people, middle aged, olderfolks, but you know, in that
connection can help really reduce I thinksome of the anxiety in a situation because
you primarily work in the hospital setting, so you know, and you're in
that inpatient setting, and let's faceit, most of us, as you
(12:41):
said, the blink and the lights, everything about the inpatient setting. Even
though I know some hospitals have triedto make those things more comfortable, they
just tend by their nature to besomewhat anxiety provoking for a lot of folks.
So you can really bring some ofthat calm and comfort and distraction if
you will, for that person.So that's great. Yeah. One of
(13:01):
the things that brought up for meis if you remember, Candice Wrestler came
in and talked to us about arttherapy, and she said a lot of
people are resistant because they feel likethey're not creative or artistic. Do you
see that like with music therapy.I never played music because I can't sing.
I wondered if that'd be different too, because, like you said,
(13:22):
music is all around this, somaybe people don't aren't as resistant. So
I don't know. Yeah, i'dbe curious too to hear. I think
Candice and I have talked a littlebit about that as well. I think
music is different in the fact that, yeah, people do react that way,
like oh my gosh, Like Ilike to listen to music, but
I play an instrumentally, you know, like fifth grade, you know that
(13:46):
back, But I think that's whereI come in and I you know,
educate them on. There's different musictherapy interventions that we use in the hospital,
and I would say the most popularone we call like receptive music listening.
So they're in this acute setting,they're in their bed, they're wearing
(14:07):
a gown. Uh, they're oftentimespretty sick and not feeling up to necessarily
participating in the music, but they'remore more often open to receiving the music
that I provide. So a lotof times they'll close their eyes and just
lay back and just receive and listen, and that that relaxed them, especially
(14:28):
if we're using their what we callpreferred music, what they find relaxing,
And that's part of the assessment process. You've got a wide range of musical
styles that you can because you don'tknow what they're going to prefer, so
you try to adapt exactly. Notnot all eighties, So I do sorry
to break it too. I doknow music outside of the eighties. Even
though I play Walking on Sunshine atthe I love that. I did know
(14:54):
that one all you have I thinkthat spans across generations. That's great.
That is a happy song. Yeah. Yeah, although if you think about
walking on Sunshine, that really isn'tpossible, but we don't want to get
into the logical. And again,for the audience, I'm actually wearing a
hospital gown for this interview, justso you know we could get the experience.
(15:18):
It is making me feel more comfortablebecause that's people I work with.
Right, Well, now that makessense that they would be more on the
receiving end rather than jumping in andperforming, because right just the setting would
kind of And Candice too, Ithink from what I've known about her,
she sees her clients regularly on aon a schedule, and in my setting,
(15:41):
that might be the one want anddone, like the only time I
see that patient. True, that'simportant? Now is that just because of
the setting, because of it's okay? Are there just for the audience?
Are there folks that work on anoutpatient basis that could see somebody on a
regular basis doing music therapy? Doyou know about that? Does that happenferent
settings? Okay? Yeah, forsure? In each hospital is different.
(16:04):
I mainly know about you know,what we do in university hospitals, but
for example, Sidemen Cancer Center wehave that uh as well, and I've
worked with some of our Sidemen Cancerpatients sure that could be on an ongoing
basis then yes, yeah, Isay, okay, so that's important I
think for the audience. So sometimesthis might be like like like I said,
(16:25):
like a one off. She mightjust see the person one time.
But there is that option of similarto Candace, where music therapy can be
worked into their ongoing help that they'rereceiving from an organization. I think that's
yeah, that's great, and itmight be good to put in as well
that I do community groups every monthas well. Let's talk about that.
(16:47):
Yeah, tell us about what arethe community groups. So I'm going into
multiple rehab, memory care, assistedliving, pretty much all the places that
are paid you know, if they'renot going home to a house that could
be their home. You know,I don't want to sure confused with that
terminology, but if they're getting dischargedfrom the hospital and those are the main
(17:08):
places that we work with when theyleave our hospital, I'm going into those
facilities and providing a music therapy group. That was a month. Yeah,
that was a different thing. Itcould be done individually, but as you
heard, Becca can do this asa group, and I wonder if that
lowers people's anxiety about participations. Especiallyif they see other people. I don't
(17:30):
know, do you think that maybebrings some people out when they see two
or three other people really joining in, they're like, oh, this is
it's safe. Yeah, definitely.And that's when I have a bunch of
instruments with me, and that's whenI do encourage them to like play this
instruments, Let's see what happens andhow does it make you feel? And
a lot of times playing an instrumentis a release and it's a form of
(17:52):
self expression and letting the internal becomeexternalized. So it is very therapeutic in
that way. And also doing thewomen Supporting Women's group once a month as
well, so that's anybody in thecommunity can come to that one as well.
So that's not just that takes placeat takes place at University Hospitals in
(18:14):
the East Tower conference room, butat Smaritan at Mariton. Yeah here locally,
that's ten twenty five Center Street,National File. Well, that's right,
And what time of day is thisWomen's Supporting Women's group. It is
six pm to seven pm. Sowe understand a lot of women are moms.
Women you know that work, andso it's an afterwork and it's Tuesday.
(18:38):
I think it's the second or thirdTuesday of every month. Okay,
that's awesome. That was a lotof fun. Like I want to go.
Becca was invited recently because it wasin the paper to one of the
local conferences here that was focused onwomen. Remember that, Becca. It
seemed like there might have been quitea few women there at this time.
I was in the paper. Yes, oh yeah, they invited you,
(19:02):
I think, to talk about yourwork there, and they do, I
think every year Ashley has been doingthat where they gather professional women throughout the
community and just again try to empowerthem and support them and oh yes women
in the workplace. Yes, yes, I was you, but I again,
that's it. I wanted to haveyou on even before that. But
(19:26):
I just think it's great that peopleare recognizing not only you, but what
you're doing and how impactful that is. Whether it's in your work with the
group or at the hospital. Musictherapy makes a difference, and it can
make a difference, and that Ilove what Becka said earlier that she got
the fact that you know, hereat the Mental Health and Recovery Board,
(19:48):
we're all about normalizing those conversations andwe you know, doctor Ashley, you
know we're all about non medical options, non medication based options when that makes
sense. And again, whether itwas Cannae or Becca art and music therapy,
are these very natural and let's faceit, we've had it from simple
instruments. We've had these things aroundfor a couple thousand years. So these
(20:12):
are in the same things with cavedrawings, right. These are old male
used, These are old ways thatwe've expressed ourselves. So why would we
just abandon them when we're struggling.I think they're so important to those approaches
and the non chemical kind of approachto mental illness is great, and one
of the benefits of that is thereare no side effects like we're talking about.
(20:34):
We talk about medication often and allthe negative side effects that can come
along with that. These approaches there'snot like a negative side effect from them.
The downside is only that the personmay not you know, like eighties,
maybe they don't. That's a downsidethat we discover that and that's a
that's a check against them. No, that's a character strength. That's a
(20:56):
character strength. Todr Ashley, wewill agree to just agreating. Brought something
up there, Yeah, Yeah,that's okay. That's what we call you
have to work through. That's nonverbals, that's what we call those. This
is why we brought elicit response.Do you I mean, how do you
(21:18):
feel? Do you? From yourperspective, I don't know how many years
you've been doing this work. Giveme a rough idea, five, ten,
fifteen. Oh Beck is only twelve, so I don't know how many
years he's actually been doing it.Yes, people tend to think I'm six
years younger than I actually am.But I've been doing this for I think
this is my third year WOW withUniversity hospitals. And honestly, do you
(21:44):
feel like it's making a difference?I mean, I know it's you know,
doctor Ashley and I are both therapists, and people would ask that up
all the time, and sometimes wedidn't know if we were really having a
positive impact because a lot of timesthe clients we would see when they were
doing better, they just didn't showup. They didn't and say hey,
I'm doing good, I don't needto see it. They would just stop
and we never knew exactly. AndI know you've got a lot of one
(22:06):
time people that you see, Butdo you feel like you've gotten enough feedback
to say that you know the workyou're doing is making a difference. I
think so. I think the pointyou brought up about seeing someone like one
time, I think that's really challengedme over the years to view making a
difference differently. I think because welike to have something in front of us,
(22:29):
we like to have that like narrative, anecdotal like response or something.
But I think at the end ofthe day, it's it's if I can
help make a difference for this personhere in this moment just by being present
with them, just to help themhave a better day, I think that
will then flow into the rest oftheir life, and that's my hope,
(22:52):
Like maybe if they come out oftheir hospital stay with a positive mindset.
Or I learned about music therapy whenI was at the hospital and these copingss
that my music therapist taught me,And now I know how to use music
and I'm encouraged to use music ina way to help me cope with things.
And like you said, talk toAshley, it's a non pharmacological treatment
option that we have, and it'sit can be used in your daily life.
(23:15):
So I think in that way,I've I viewed that like making a
difference is kind of like I said, challenge me. But but yeah,
we do. Hear great feedback fromfrom the staff, And if I work
closely with the nurses, I'm amazedby our nurses every single day, just
(23:36):
what they do and their resilience.And I would think they would give you
good feedback because they're vary in tunewith the clients and the patients are seen.
So if it's making a difference,I think I think you could probably
believe them if they say that madea difference, whether the person said it
to you or not, I cantell you back that made a difference.
Well, I have to ask andwhen was it? When did you realize
(23:57):
this is something, This is apassion of yours and you wanted to to
channel that passion and this work didWas it when you were in fifth grade
and you were just on your piccoloor pay three my summary recorder? When
did this happen? When did thisall start? I you know, I
would like to think it was mychildhood, but it wasn't so, so
(24:21):
believe it or not. I Igrew up watching my parents. Both my
parents are musical, which I thinkis is amazing. But as a child,
I was intimidated by that because Iam dreadfully inherently shy, and I
don't I don't believe that, believeit. I'm sorry, Sorry, everybody,
(24:45):
really, Yes, you know,and I've over the years, I've
I've kind of, you know,recognized I want to force myself to do
things I don't want to do inorder to become someone I don't want.
I want to be someone I wantto become after this for the audience,
(25:08):
But that's yeah, that's what Itold myself in college, like pushing myself
to do things I don't want todo outside your comfort someone yes, to
become someone I want to become.And when you when you become comfortable in
the uncomfy, then you start tomake it believable. I guess to you,
David made it believable. But no, you're right. If you don't
push yourself, you don't grow,you don't and if you settle for comfort,
(25:32):
yeah, you may not end upbeing the person you really want to
be. And to get there,though, right, you have to put
yourself situations right that are uncomfortable andyou learn from that. So you really
had to push yourself you weren't justnaturally like a you know, because you
see these like young actors or actresses, they were always like in plays or
they were always putting themselves out there. That wasn't you. You weren't always
doing that. Also, yeah,mad respect for the theater kids. Bike.
(25:57):
I was never could never be,still could never be. But yeah,
I grew up, my grew upseeing my parents do that. And
it's also cool. My mom isa psychology major. So the kind of
created like a you know, musictherapist and makes sense. So was in
college when you finally said I'm gonnado this, is that when it happened?
(26:18):
Uh? Yeah, yeah, Ididn't. I didn't know about music
therapy until I was a couple ofyears into getting my associate degree, and
I thought I wanted to be amusic educator, back to the education piece
because a lot of people think whenthey think music, they think music education
or music performance. And then Ilearned about music therapy and I was like,
(26:40):
it kind of sounds a little Idon't know, made up, yes,
like and sometimes when I explain it, like I don't know, it
does sound like you're talking abou voodoomagic sometimes and like the results that you
get, but it's not like atthe very similar Oh really okay, But
but at the end of the day, I started researching it, and a
(27:03):
lot of what we do is basedin research, and it is this,
this very grounded and illicits, thesevery powerful results for our patients and clients,
and so I was very intrigued bythat, and I want to see
more. And I also love it'slike evolving and adapting as most mental health
professions. And we're going to touchon that. And again we're speaking with
(27:26):
Becka Smith, who is a musictherapist board certified at University Hospitals right here
in town, and I wanted totalk about that, Beca, because I
was the other thing we touched onat the conference is as there's been more
recognition of both music and art therapy, Ohio among other states, has said,
you know what, we need tolegitimize this to some extent, all
(27:48):
this good work and all the researchthat you referenced that this really does make
a difference. And the way youlegitimize some of these practices is to license
them, to regulate them to becausethat lets the public know. That's really
the essence of why you have licensureboards is to assure the public that this
is legit. You know that thesepeople, you know, we oversee them,
that we were there to protect youpublic. We're just not letting anybody
(28:11):
saying, Hey, I'm doing thisthing and it's good for you. You
know it's not. There's an expressionback in the day called snake oil salesman's
y. Have you heard that before? Doctor? I heard? Okay,
I'm not. I just want tomake sure because you guys are both twelve,
that's right, but anyways to surethat this is legit. Ohio has
gone down this road of licensing bothart and music therapy. So you are
(28:34):
already through that process or are youin that process in terms of licensure.
I don't remember. You told me, but I forget because that's what happens
when you're old. Yes, Ithink there's there's been a lot of music
therapists that have worked very, veryhard to get us to this point,
and yeah, we're there now,and there's been a lot of conversations of
those next steps, and it's thesame for art and music therapy. It's
(28:57):
now that that condition and I thinkwe're we're mentioned in the bill or you
know, are you going down thatroad then, so you'll pursue that then
the license your path, yes,okay, yes, yeah, because you're
all set up. I don't knowif you need to do anything extra.
I think that's kind of what they'reworking out, is that they'll look at
all your your education, your workand probably decide you need to take a
(29:18):
test or you don't, or you'llget grandfather. That's that's typically the process
they So you'll apply and then you'llfind out, right, Yeah, yeah,
and you know, hopefully I havepassed. You know, I could
think I want to be a fakepony here, but yeah, I'm not
sure really like the details of thingsor they're still working out things. Yes,
but I know we've made huge stridesthis this past year and it's it's
(29:42):
really exciting and I'm excited to havethis be more accessible for those who really
need it and can benefit from andhow how insurance and those things work as
well. I think that's going tobe exactly a big step in that direction
as well. Yeah, I've beenhearing just in my social circles and also
professional circles, a lot of peopleare interested in becoming music therapist. Like
(30:04):
it's a new there's a lot oftalk about it. So having you here,
I wanted to ask you if thereare any tips or words of wisdom
that you might have for someone who'sthinking about becoming a music therapist. Good
question. Yeah, I think there'sso many ways I could answer that question.
It's also really cool there was thereare two young ladies that came up
to me after the rs VP conferenceand they said they wanted to come because
(30:29):
they're interested in becoming music therapists.Cool. Yeah, I've been hearing a
lot of it. Honestly, I'dlove to hear it. Yeah, Becca,
whether you want to be or not, I think you in Canas too.
You're both very good ambassadors for whatyou do. I think, And
again I was teasing earlier, butBecca is actually very nice and very approachable,
(30:49):
you know, and I think peoplesense that in Rebecca and they want
to you know, they were interested. They heard you talk, they heard
you play and tell them a littlebit, and they said, yeah,
I want to do this, helpme. And so I think because you've
been at the forefront of this,I think you'll be in a position where
you can help some of these youngerfolks coming up that want to do this
(31:10):
now, and especially again since there'sthis licensure path and as you say,
once insurance starts paying for it,organizations, companies, hospitals, you name
it, they're going to employ oncethey start to see the benefits of this
coming alongside the work whatever they're doing. So I think you might be have
another side thing that you do whereyou can be this ambassador for music therapy,
(31:33):
because that's what I think. Yeah, nobody cares what I think that.
Yeah, it's really I think,at the end of the day,
it's very humbling because I know howhard having gone through the program and having
gone through all of the twelve hundredhours of clinical trading in multiple settings,
and doing the board exam, anddoing the psychology and the anatomy courses and
(31:59):
the statists six courses because we doresearch and all these aspects that people don't
realize about music therapy. They justsee me pushing around the lady with the
guitar, like, hey, doyou know how to play that guitar?
By the way, and like whyis that in the hospital. But yeah,
I think for for the the young, younger folks that are thinking about
becoming a music therapist, I think, at the end of the day,
(32:21):
if you have a heart and passionfor helping others and for just creating this
this life that's centered around serving thoseand and advocating that you know it is.
It is a huge part of whatwe do. That's gonna that's gonna
take you far. If you findthat, you know, you might not
(32:42):
enjoy working with people, or youdon't really want to help people, but
you like the idea of music,then there's a lot of other avenues for
music and I and yeah, ifyou're interested in becoming a music therapist,
definitely you start working on your musicskills and your people skills, yeah,
and volunteering and there's multiple ways.It's you know, music therapists wear many
(33:06):
hats, you know, and justbeing ready for for anything, being ready
to be on your toes. Yeah, flexible. Well back, We always
our guests before we end. Wealways say, hey, is there anything
else that's on your heart or thatyou're that's pressing that you want the audience
to know before we wrap up?But I think this has been great.
You've really opened I think my eyesabout what's all involved in how you make
(33:30):
a difference. But anything you wantto say to the audience before we sign
off, today's episode. I guessI just feel led to I don't know.
I guess just to encourage people there. We've been going through a lot
this past decade and just coming outof the pandemic and all the repercussions and
everything that's still still going on.So yeah, I just encourage people to
(33:54):
that you're not you're not alone.There are resources, especially in Nashland County
that we were here to help supportyou if you if you feel open to
doing that. We're not here topressure you to come now, but we
do. You are cared about andwe do. We do want to support
you, and music therapy is oneof those ways that we can. We
(34:15):
can do that, and well,everything that you all do, I'm sure
it goes beyond and above, likemy comprehension, everything that you do,
it's I hope not. We're tryingto We're trying to speak to folks in
a way that hopefully they understand,because you're right, Michael, we we
want people to be able to assessthe services the board funds and provides,
(34:35):
and if we we don't use theright language, we're not helpful. So
we're trying to explain things in away that hopefully are accessible to folks,
so and speaking accessibility. Becka,I don't know, maybe you don't want
people contacting you, But if anybody, if any of our listeners wanted to
get a hold of you, isthere an appropriate way that they should do
that. Yeah, they can,they can email me. I think people
(34:58):
can have my email. Yeah,we can put that in the podcast description.
Yeah, if that's okay. Ididn't want to. I didn't want
you to get in and dated withall kinds of crazy emails, but we
will. We are speaking with BeccaSmith, music therapist, board certified,
and we will have her if youwant to follow up with her any of
the things she said. Like Isaid, she is doing wonderful work in
(35:19):
the community and at the hospital.And if you were, like some of
those folks at RSVP, if you'reinterested in learning more about maybe going down
this as a career path, Ithink that it would be a wonderful resource
for you to connect with. Absolutely, you've been such a gem. So
thank you for stopping by our podcasttoday, Thanks for having me, thank
you, thank you for listening toanother episode of the Keeping National and Healthy
(35:42):
podcast. The podcast is a productionof the Mental health and Recovery Board of
Ashland County, Ohio. You canreach the Board by calling four one nine
two eight one three one three nine. Please remember that the Board funds a
local twenty four to seven crisis linethrough Applese Community Mental Health Center. It
can be reached by calling four onenine two eight nine six one one one.
That's four one nine two eight ninesix one one one. Until next
(36:07):
time, Please join us in keepingAshland healthy.
Welcome. You're listening to the KeepingAshland Healthy Podcast, a podcast production of
the Mental Health and Recovery Board ofAshland County, Ohio. Thanks for joining
us, and welcome back to anotherepisode of Doctor Ashley and the Boss.
We are in studio, Doctor Ashley. How are you doing? I'm good?
How are you today? I'm doingit? Okay, good, I'm
better because we have a super specialguest we do in the studio with us.
(00:27):
It's exciting, I think, sono pressure, but we think she
might be one of our best guestsever. Yeah, I just don't tell
the others. Oh that's a goodpoint. Wow. In the studio,
we really are pleased because Beca Smith. Some of you might recall we mentioned
Becca before when we were talking aboutthe RSVP conference where she was a presenter
(00:49):
and we thought she did just awonderful job. She is a music therapist,
board certified with University Hospitals and sheworks over at the Connor Whole Health
Center there on Samaritan as well asothers I think branch locations within the medical
system. But Becca is going totalk to us about music therapy. What
that actually looks like? Uh,there's just missing facts we're going to go
(01:11):
over, but we're excited for ouraudience to understand better what music therapy is,
how it can be helpful, butalso just to get I don't know
Becca Smith a little bit. SoBecca, welcome to the studio. Welcome,
Hello, Thanks for having me.Did we build it up to bit?
Yeah, it's good. I hada laugh in there. Sorry,
that is honored to be here.No, And I think we talked before
(01:36):
about having Candace Wrestler, who youknow and you co presented with Candace spoke
to our audience about art therapy andmusic therapy is just another one of those
I think emerging practices that for somefolks that are maybe struggling the regular basic
talk therapy that we've been doing foryears, it has its place, but
(01:57):
art and music therapy, we thinkfor other folks that might be the preferred
avenue or venue for them to connect. So that's why we're so excited about
what you're doing. And as weget into the episode today, if you
feel comfortable, yeah, well we'llask you, you know, without breaking
any phi, you know, tellus a little bit, you know,
as we go through this, howmaybe you've seen this impact folks in a
(02:20):
positive way, because we heard fromCanvas that, you know, particularly with
some of the younger folks she workswith, are folks that have a trauma
history. You know, the regulartalk therapy was just not really getting anywhere.
The person was kind of stuck.But once you go down a different
avenue, all of a sudden youstart to learn stuff. They learn stuff
about themselves, and discussion gets Idon't know, just more free flowing and
(02:44):
productive for everybody. So what doyou think, doctor, You're excited about
this one. I'm this. Ilove music. You know that, so
as the audience knows, Doctor Ashleyand I have a very different musical taste.
Yes we do. We'll have totalk about that, if that's okay,
we can as a music therapist.I would like to be well,
I think so, yes, I'myou know, of all the things about
(03:06):
doctor Ashley, I appreciate that isthe one that bothers me the most.
Becca she does. She really hasmuch more demon qualities. But we'll definitely
have to dig into that a littlebit. And I shared with you my
love of eighties hair bangs. Yes, she she does not share that.
I don't really like that, butI love that you love it. Yeah,
(03:28):
Hey, that's that's supportive. Yeah, it's not good enough for you.
I need a little bit more.I need more than that. I
needed somebody to build out some ofthose choruses with me. Oh so sorry,
she refuses, can't be me.You know, maybe maybe one day
I want to keep working on it. That's right, work in progress.
(03:50):
Well, Becca, it might behelpful for folks, because again, I'm
going to assume there's a lot offolks listening that they just they've never experienced
music therapy firsthand, don't know anybodywho has, So it may be helpful
just to give folks in the audiencean overview about kind of what it looks
like, what it sounds like,and uh, maybe we can bust some
(04:11):
myths or common misperceptions people have aboutwhat it is and what it isn't so
take it away back up. Yeah, that sounds good. I think we
could even maybe combine those ts okay, because you know, oftentimes when you
think of music, I think alot of people go back to their childhood.
Maybe their first interaction with music isin fifth grade band or elementary school
(04:34):
like that's that might have been thelast time for a lot of the community
patients I work with, that wasthe last time they played an instrument.
So if you go back to that, you know, it's like music education
is their first interaction with with music, and so it's it's kind of that
educative role, and you have tomake sure you're playing the recorder. You
(04:55):
know. I think the recorder istriggering for some people. I okay,
I love that. You love thatsuper fun? Do you like listening to
it? I mean it probably soundsawful, but when I was a kid,
I love well, you know,it's all very foreign to Maybe next
next time I see you, guyswill have to bring in some recorders.
(05:15):
The recorder is I don't know what. Oh, okay, it's like the
like it's like it's like a longplastic instrument that you to but holes on
it a lot more cringier, likesorry, like a piccolo. No,
no, that's great, that soundsbeautiful. It's past. We loved it
(05:36):
though. It was fun. Todo a recorder episode, I'd be great.
But you're thinking a lot of folks, that's that's kind of the memory
they have associated and it's that maybekeeps them limited in what it really is
because that's their own experience. Okay, that makes sense at least when it
comes to playing an instrument. Yeah. I think a lot of people are
(05:56):
obviously open to listening to music,sure, because music is everywhere we go
weddings, events, sports, games, everything. Even like going to a
grocery store. There's music playing inthe background a lot of times. Eighties
music. Yes, I will say, yes, it helps you shop.
It makes you feel good about spendingyour money. You know, when bacon's
over ten dollars, you still buyit because deth Lefford is playing in the
(06:20):
background that But you see what I'mdealing with back, she will it's terrible.
Okay. So maybe at the coffeeI don't know, can we talk
about what kind of music you like? So if I like a lot of
different kinds, that's really like myleast favorite, but eighties yeah, oh
(06:45):
like metalcore is my favorite. Hmm. So maybe if we're going to I
don't know, what's where are someplaces you would walk into and there's that
playing nowhere, like that chamber,say, like a coffee shop. Like
you're you're saying, I like chillViBe's acoustic. I like that too,
Yeah, chi Vibes is that whatthey play at Goldberry. Yeah, yeah,
(07:09):
I would say they have ChIL vibeprobably like some indie pop yea indie
low fi. Everyone I like tostudy to Mumford's getting it is everybody.
You can't escape music. It's ubiquitous. M Yes, it's everywhere home.
May or may not go home andlook that up, but you know,
(07:30):
just for extra understanding, but yeah, for sure. All right. So
when you first maybe introduced the idea, is that how it usually goes?
So because they're probably the patient orthe person is unaware of it as a
venue. Is it Usually you maybe suggesting that, you know, hey,
would you be interested in music therapy? And then you get probably all
kinds of questions like what's that?Yes, all all types of responses,
(07:55):
which keeps it exciting and interesting becauseif you think about the medical sense,
if you just imagine just sitting inthere for a second, you're distressful.
You're distressed like the thought of it, because there's there's beeps, there's sounds,
there's people running around, there's acute care happening, and just a
(08:16):
stressful, high stakes environment. Andso if you think about pulling in an
instrument into that or mentioning music everyone'slike, what are you talking about?
Or if they see I have acart that I push around that has a
keyboard and a guitar on my musictherapy gear, I leave it in the
hallway when I do my assessment sessionswith my patients. When they see me
pushing that around, they're just like, is that a guitar? You know,
(08:37):
Normally, if you see a guitarat a church or something, it's
like everyone knows it's a guitar.But when they're in the hospital, they
have to ask is that a guitar? They don't expect it. Is that
guitar here in this hospital? Doyou know how to play the guitar?
Yeah, that's another question. No, you know, I'm just pushing it
around. I just found this.I found this in somebody's room, yes,
(09:01):
and now I'm just giving it aright. Yeah, so interesting,
it does. There's a lot ofI don't know if we want to call
them barriers or kind of just likemental blocks, just the idea of accessibility
to this more specialized idea and care. But then if you pull in the
therapy part to add talk about music, that is another whole whole level too.
(09:24):
So a lot of times it's justyou know, do you like music.
Here's the specialized service that we have. It's really here just to help
support you. Like you're going throughit right now and you're in a hospital
and if you feel like, youknow, this is something you might benefit
from or if you're open to tryingit, here's what we can do,
and here's some options, and thisis what it could look like. Well,
(09:46):
like, how do folks typically respondwhen you kind of open it up
and introduce that concept to a lotof them take advantage or they want to
wait and think about it, orhow do they usually respond? Yeah,
everyone's across the board and does alot of you know, age and population
player role up to that too.I think if they like music, you
(10:09):
know, they might be more opento it. But it's also in the
hospital, like maybe they have aprocedure that day, or like they just
got launched, so you're it's it'sanything goes. But yeah, if they're
opening and trying it, then wejust talk through what that looks like.
And they also have their right becausewe really value autonomy as as music therapists
and through our program, like youknow, you have so many people coming
(10:31):
in to your room that you don'thave a choice over what's going on a
lot of times, but you dohave a choice over music therapy. So
yeah, sometimes maybe they're like,come back, let me think about it.
You know, here's this prochure,come back the next day. So
it's a range of of reaction.Or sometimes they're just like, oh my
gosh, I love music, Likecan you come in right now? I'm
having like an anxiety attack, likelike and I need this so right and
(10:54):
I'm reillated to give it a try. How aboutes age and population player role,
it's a good question. Yeah,yeah, Like I think for a
lot of the I don't want tooffend anybody either, but I could I
guess we could say like generally theyounger, younger folks are more open to
(11:16):
you know, like a specialized serviceor even just kind of and I think
that's great. Like what you guysdo here too, is normalizing the idea
of talking about mental health and normalizingtalking about therapy and that it's it's there's
not something like wrong with you,right, or you don't have a problem
or an issue that needs to youknow, be pointed fingers at you if
(11:37):
you're going to therapy. But soI think generally, yeah, younger,
younger folks are more open to it, and then makes sense if they're if
they're older, they just like theylove music, and we might not even
talk about the therapy aspect of itas much. It's just more of like,
let's talk about your youth and howdoes that make you happy and take
your mind off of being at thehospital. See. Yeah, I think
(11:58):
that's that's really clever back because Imean, even if you don't actually get
into the formal music therapy proper,just you made a connection, You've probably
reduced some of their anxiety and stressand probably blood pressure and other things have
come down just because you've opened upan avenue that they probably weren't expecting,
you know, and here you areconnecting with somebody. And doctor Ashley and
(12:20):
I talk about a lot about theimportance of connection regardless of the age,
young people, middle aged, olderfolks, but you know, in that
connection can help really reduce I thinksome of the anxiety in a situation because
you primarily work in the hospital setting, so you know, and you're in
that inpatient setting, and let's faceit, most of us, as you
(12:41):
said, the blink and the lights, everything about the inpatient setting. Even
though I know some hospitals have triedto make those things more comfortable, they
just tend by their nature to besomewhat anxiety provoking for a lot of folks.
So you can really bring some ofthat calm and comfort and distraction if
you will, for that person.So that's great. Yeah. One of
(13:01):
the things that brought up for meis if you remember, Candice Wrestler came
in and talked to us about arttherapy, and she said a lot of
people are resistant because they feel likethey're not creative or artistic. Do you
see that like with music therapy.I never played music because I can't sing.
I wondered if that'd be different too, because, like you said,
(13:22):
music is all around this, somaybe people don't aren't as resistant. So
I don't know. Yeah, i'dbe curious too to hear. I think
Candice and I have talked a littlebit about that as well. I think
music is different in the fact that, yeah, people do react that way,
like oh my gosh, Like Ilike to listen to music, but
I play an instrumentally, you know, like fifth grade, you know that
(13:46):
back, But I think that's whereI come in and I you know,
educate them on. There's different musictherapy interventions that we use in the hospital,
and I would say the most popularone we call like receptive music listening.
So they're in this acute setting,they're in their bed, they're wearing
(14:07):
a gown. Uh, they're oftentimespretty sick and not feeling up to necessarily
participating in the music, but they'remore more often open to receiving the music
that I provide. So a lotof times they'll close their eyes and just
lay back and just receive and listen, and that that relaxed them, especially
(14:28):
if we're using their what we callpreferred music, what they find relaxing,
And that's part of the assessment process. You've got a wide range of musical
styles that you can because you don'tknow what they're going to prefer, so
you try to adapt exactly. Notnot all eighties, So I do sorry
to break it too. I doknow music outside of the eighties. Even
though I play Walking on Sunshine atthe I love that. I did know
(14:54):
that one all you have I thinkthat spans across generations. That's great.
That is a happy song. Yeah. Yeah, although if you think about
walking on Sunshine, that really isn'tpossible, but we don't want to get
into the logical. And again,for the audience, I'm actually wearing a
hospital gown for this interview, justso you know we could get the experience.
(15:18):
It is making me feel more comfortablebecause that's people I work with.
Right, Well, now that makessense that they would be more on the
receiving end rather than jumping in andperforming, because right just the setting would
kind of And Candice too, Ithink from what I've known about her,
she sees her clients regularly on aon a schedule, and in my setting,
(15:41):
that might be the one want anddone, like the only time I
see that patient. True, that'simportant? Now is that just because of
the setting, because of it's okay? Are there just for the audience?
Are there folks that work on anoutpatient basis that could see somebody on a
regular basis doing music therapy? Doyou know about that? Does that happenferent
settings? Okay? Yeah, forsure? In each hospital is different.
(16:04):
I mainly know about you know,what we do in university hospitals, but
for example, Sidemen Cancer Center wehave that uh as well, and I've
worked with some of our Sidemen Cancerpatients sure that could be on an ongoing
basis then yes, yeah, Isay, okay, so that's important I
think for the audience. So sometimesthis might be like like like I said,
(16:25):
like a one off. She mightjust see the person one time.
But there is that option of similarto Candace, where music therapy can be
worked into their ongoing help that they'rereceiving from an organization. I think that's
yeah, that's great, and itmight be good to put in as well
that I do community groups every monthas well. Let's talk about that.
(16:47):
Yeah, tell us about what arethe community groups. So I'm going into
multiple rehab, memory care, assistedliving, pretty much all the places that
are paid you know, if they'renot going home to a house that could
be their home. You know,I don't want to sure confused with that
terminology, but if they're getting dischargedfrom the hospital and those are the main
(17:08):
places that we work with when theyleave our hospital, I'm going into those
facilities and providing a music therapy group. That was a month. Yeah,
that was a different thing. Itcould be done individually, but as you
heard, Becca can do this asa group, and I wonder if that
lowers people's anxiety about participations. Especiallyif they see other people. I don't
(17:30):
know, do you think that maybebrings some people out when they see two
or three other people really joining in, they're like, oh, this is
it's safe. Yeah, definitely.And that's when I have a bunch of
instruments with me, and that's whenI do encourage them to like play this
instruments, Let's see what happens andhow does it make you feel? And
a lot of times playing an instrumentis a release and it's a form of
(17:52):
self expression and letting the internal becomeexternalized. So it is very therapeutic in
that way. And also doing thewomen Supporting Women's group once a month as
well, so that's anybody in thecommunity can come to that one as well.
So that's not just that takes placeat takes place at University Hospitals in
(18:14):
the East Tower conference room, butat Smaritan at Mariton. Yeah here locally,
that's ten twenty five Center Street,National File. Well, that's right,
And what time of day is thisWomen's Supporting Women's group. It is
six pm to seven pm. Sowe understand a lot of women are moms.
Women you know that work, andso it's an afterwork and it's Tuesday.
(18:38):
I think it's the second or thirdTuesday of every month. Okay,
that's awesome. That was a lotof fun. Like I want to go.
Becca was invited recently because it wasin the paper to one of the
local conferences here that was focused onwomen. Remember that, Becca. It
seemed like there might have been quitea few women there at this time.
I was in the paper. Yes, oh yeah, they invited you,
(19:02):
I think, to talk about yourwork there, and they do, I
think every year Ashley has been doingthat where they gather professional women throughout the
community and just again try to empowerthem and support them and oh yes women
in the workplace. Yes, yes, I was you, but I again,
that's it. I wanted to haveyou on even before that. But
(19:26):
I just think it's great that peopleare recognizing not only you, but what
you're doing and how impactful that is. Whether it's in your work with the
group or at the hospital. Musictherapy makes a difference, and it can
make a difference, and that Ilove what Becka said earlier that she got
the fact that you know, hereat the Mental Health and Recovery Board,
(19:48):
we're all about normalizing those conversations andwe you know, doctor Ashley, you
know we're all about non medical options, non medication based options when that makes
sense. And again, whether itwas Cannae or Becca art and music therapy,
are these very natural and let's faceit, we've had it from simple
instruments. We've had these things aroundfor a couple thousand years. So these
(20:12):
are in the same things with cavedrawings, right. These are old male
used, These are old ways thatwe've expressed ourselves. So why would we
just abandon them when we're struggling.I think they're so important to those approaches
and the non chemical kind of approachto mental illness is great, and one
of the benefits of that is thereare no side effects like we're talking about.
(20:34):
We talk about medication often and allthe negative side effects that can come
along with that. These approaches there'snot like a negative side effect from them.
The downside is only that the personmay not you know, like eighties,
maybe they don't. That's a downsidethat we discover that and that's a
that's a check against them. No, that's a character strength. That's a
(20:56):
character strength. Todr Ashley, wewill agree to just agreating. Brought something
up there, Yeah, Yeah,that's okay. That's what we call you
have to work through. That's nonverbals, that's what we call those. This
is why we brought elicit response.Do you I mean, how do you
(21:18):
feel? Do you? From yourperspective, I don't know how many years
you've been doing this work. Giveme a rough idea, five, ten,
fifteen. Oh Beck is only twelve, so I don't know how many
years he's actually been doing it.Yes, people tend to think I'm six
years younger than I actually am.But I've been doing this for I think
this is my third year WOW withUniversity hospitals. And honestly, do you
(21:44):
feel like it's making a difference?I mean, I know it's you know,
doctor Ashley and I are both therapists, and people would ask that up
all the time, and sometimes wedidn't know if we were really having a
positive impact because a lot of timesthe clients we would see when they were
doing better, they just didn't showup. They didn't and say hey,
I'm doing good, I don't needto see it. They would just stop
and we never knew exactly. AndI know you've got a lot of one
(22:06):
time people that you see, Butdo you feel like you've gotten enough feedback
to say that you know the workyou're doing is making a difference. I
think so. I think the pointyou brought up about seeing someone like one
time, I think that's really challengedme over the years to view making a
difference differently. I think because welike to have something in front of us,
(22:29):
we like to have that like narrative, anecdotal like response or something.
But I think at the end ofthe day, it's it's if I can
help make a difference for this personhere in this moment just by being present
with them, just to help themhave a better day, I think that
will then flow into the rest oftheir life, and that's my hope,
(22:52):
Like maybe if they come out oftheir hospital stay with a positive mindset.
Or I learned about music therapy whenI was at the hospital and these copingss
that my music therapist taught me,And now I know how to use music
and I'm encouraged to use music ina way to help me cope with things.
And like you said, talk toAshley, it's a non pharmacological treatment
option that we have, and it'sit can be used in your daily life.
(23:15):
So I think in that way,I've I viewed that like making a
difference is kind of like I said, challenge me. But but yeah,
we do. Hear great feedback fromfrom the staff, And if I work
closely with the nurses, I'm amazedby our nurses every single day, just
(23:36):
what they do and their resilience.And I would think they would give you
good feedback because they're vary in tunewith the clients and the patients are seen.
So if it's making a difference,I think I think you could probably
believe them if they say that madea difference, whether the person said it
to you or not, I cantell you back that made a difference.
Well, I have to ask andwhen was it? When did you realize
(23:57):
this is something, This is apassion of yours and you wanted to to
channel that passion and this work didWas it when you were in fifth grade
and you were just on your piccoloor pay three my summary recorder? When
did this happen? When did thisall start? I you know, I
would like to think it was mychildhood, but it wasn't so, so
(24:21):
believe it or not. I Igrew up watching my parents. Both my
parents are musical, which I thinkis is amazing. But as a child,
I was intimidated by that because Iam dreadfully inherently shy, and I
don't I don't believe that, believeit. I'm sorry, Sorry, everybody,
(24:45):
really, Yes, you know,and I've over the years, I've
I've kind of, you know,recognized I want to force myself to do
things I don't want to do inorder to become someone I don't want.
I want to be someone I wantto become after this for the audience,
(25:08):
But that's yeah, that's what Itold myself in college, like pushing myself
to do things I don't want todo outside your comfort someone yes, to
become someone I want to become.And when you when you become comfortable in
the uncomfy, then you start tomake it believable. I guess to you,
David made it believable. But no, you're right. If you don't
push yourself, you don't grow,you don't and if you settle for comfort,
(25:32):
yeah, you may not end upbeing the person you really want to
be. And to get there,though, right, you have to put
yourself situations right that are uncomfortable andyou learn from that. So you really
had to push yourself you weren't justnaturally like a you know, because you
see these like young actors or actresses, they were always like in plays or
they were always putting themselves out there. That wasn't you. You weren't always
doing that. Also, yeah,mad respect for the theater kids. Bike.
(25:57):
I was never could never be,still could never be. But yeah,
I grew up, my grew upseeing my parents do that. And
it's also cool. My mom isa psychology major. So the kind of
created like a you know, musictherapist and makes sense. So was in
college when you finally said I'm gonnado this, is that when it happened?
(26:18):
Uh? Yeah, yeah, Ididn't. I didn't know about music
therapy until I was a couple ofyears into getting my associate degree, and
I thought I wanted to be amusic educator, back to the education piece
because a lot of people think whenthey think music, they think music education
or music performance. And then Ilearned about music therapy and I was like,
(26:40):
it kind of sounds a little Idon't know, made up, yes,
like and sometimes when I explain it, like I don't know, it
does sound like you're talking abou voodoomagic sometimes and like the results that you
get, but it's not like atthe very similar Oh really okay, But
but at the end of the day, I started researching it, and a
(27:03):
lot of what we do is basedin research, and it is this,
this very grounded and illicits, thesevery powerful results for our patients and clients,
and so I was very intrigued bythat, and I want to see
more. And I also love it'slike evolving and adapting as most mental health
professions. And we're going to touchon that. And again we're speaking with
(27:26):
Becka Smith, who is a musictherapist board certified at University Hospitals right here
in town, and I wanted totalk about that, Beca, because I
was the other thing we touched onat the conference is as there's been more
recognition of both music and art therapy, Ohio among other states, has said,
you know what, we need tolegitimize this to some extent, all
(27:48):
this good work and all the researchthat you referenced that this really does make
a difference. And the way youlegitimize some of these practices is to license
them, to regulate them to becausethat lets the public know. That's really
the essence of why you have licensureboards is to assure the public that this
is legit. You know that thesepeople, you know, we oversee them,
that we were there to protect youpublic. We're just not letting anybody
(28:11):
saying, Hey, I'm doing thisthing and it's good for you. You
know it's not. There's an expressionback in the day called snake oil salesman's
y. Have you heard that before? Doctor? I heard? Okay,
I'm not. I just want tomake sure because you guys are both twelve,
that's right, but anyways to surethat this is legit. Ohio has
gone down this road of licensing bothart and music therapy. So you are
(28:34):
already through that process or are youin that process in terms of licensure.
I don't remember. You told me, but I forget because that's what happens
when you're old. Yes, Ithink there's there's been a lot of music
therapists that have worked very, veryhard to get us to this point,
and yeah, we're there now,and there's been a lot of conversations of
those next steps, and it's thesame for art and music therapy. It's
(28:57):
now that that condition and I thinkwe're we're mentioned in the bill or you
know, are you going down thatroad then, so you'll pursue that then
the license your path, yes,okay, yes, yeah, because you're
all set up. I don't knowif you need to do anything extra.
I think that's kind of what they'reworking out, is that they'll look at
all your your education, your workand probably decide you need to take a
(29:18):
test or you don't, or you'llget grandfather. That's that's typically the process
they So you'll apply and then you'llfind out, right, Yeah, yeah,
and you know, hopefully I havepassed. You know, I could
think I want to be a fakepony here, but yeah, I'm not
sure really like the details of thingsor they're still working out things. Yes,
but I know we've made huge stridesthis this past year and it's it's
(29:42):
really exciting and I'm excited to havethis be more accessible for those who really
need it and can benefit from andhow how insurance and those things work as
well. I think that's going tobe exactly a big step in that direction
as well. Yeah, I've beenhearing just in my social circles and also
professional circles, a lot of peopleare interested in becoming music therapist. Like
(30:04):
it's a new there's a lot oftalk about it. So having you here,
I wanted to ask you if thereare any tips or words of wisdom
that you might have for someone who'sthinking about becoming a music therapist. Good
question. Yeah, I think there'sso many ways I could answer that question.
It's also really cool there was thereare two young ladies that came up
to me after the rs VP conferenceand they said they wanted to come because
(30:29):
they're interested in becoming music therapists.Cool. Yeah, I've been hearing a
lot of it. Honestly, I'dlove to hear it. Yeah, Becca,
whether you want to be or not, I think you in Canas too.
You're both very good ambassadors for whatyou do. I think, And
again I was teasing earlier, butBecca is actually very nice and very approachable,
(30:49):
you know, and I think peoplesense that in Rebecca and they want
to you know, they were interested. They heard you talk, they heard
you play and tell them a littlebit, and they said, yeah,
I want to do this, helpme. And so I think because you've
been at the forefront of this,I think you'll be in a position where
you can help some of these youngerfolks coming up that want to do this
(31:10):
now, and especially again since there'sthis licensure path and as you say,
once insurance starts paying for it,organizations, companies, hospitals, you name
it, they're going to employ oncethey start to see the benefits of this
coming alongside the work whatever they're doing. So I think you might be have
another side thing that you do whereyou can be this ambassador for music therapy,
(31:33):
because that's what I think. Yeah, nobody cares what I think that.
Yeah, it's really I think,at the end of the day,
it's very humbling because I know howhard having gone through the program and having
gone through all of the twelve hundredhours of clinical trading in multiple settings,
and doing the board exam, anddoing the psychology and the anatomy courses and
(31:59):
the statists six courses because we doresearch and all these aspects that people don't
realize about music therapy. They justsee me pushing around the lady with the
guitar, like, hey, doyou know how to play that guitar?
By the way, and like whyis that in the hospital. But yeah,
I think for for the the young, younger folks that are thinking about
becoming a music therapist, I think, at the end of the day,
(32:21):
if you have a heart and passionfor helping others and for just creating this
this life that's centered around serving thoseand and advocating that you know it is.
It is a huge part of whatwe do. That's gonna that's gonna
take you far. If you findthat, you know, you might not
(32:42):
enjoy working with people, or youdon't really want to help people, but
you like the idea of music,then there's a lot of other avenues for
music and I and yeah, ifyou're interested in becoming a music therapist,
definitely you start working on your musicskills and your people skills, yeah,
and volunteering and there's multiple ways.It's you know, music therapists wear many
(33:06):
hats, you know, and justbeing ready for for anything, being ready
to be on your toes. Yeah, flexible. Well back, We always
our guests before we end. Wealways say, hey, is there anything
else that's on your heart or thatyou're that's pressing that you want the audience
to know before we wrap up?But I think this has been great.
You've really opened I think my eyesabout what's all involved in how you make
(33:30):
a difference. But anything you wantto say to the audience before we sign
off, today's episode. I guessI just feel led to I don't know.
I guess just to encourage people there. We've been going through a lot
this past decade and just coming outof the pandemic and all the repercussions and
everything that's still still going on.So yeah, I just encourage people to
(33:54):
that you're not you're not alone.There are resources, especially in Nashland County
that we were here to help supportyou if you if you feel open to
doing that. We're not here topressure you to come now, but we
do. You are cared about andwe do. We do want to support
you, and music therapy is oneof those ways that we can. We
(34:15):
can do that, and well,everything that you all do, I'm sure
it goes beyond and above, likemy comprehension, everything that you do,
it's I hope not. We're tryingto We're trying to speak to folks in
a way that hopefully they understand,because you're right, Michael, we we
want people to be able to assessthe services the board funds and provides,
(34:35):
and if we we don't use theright language, we're not helpful. So
we're trying to explain things in away that hopefully are accessible to folks,
so and speaking accessibility. Becka,I don't know, maybe you don't want
people contacting you, But if anybody, if any of our listeners wanted to
get a hold of you, isthere an appropriate way that they should do
that. Yeah, they can,they can email me. I think people
(34:58):
can have my email. Yeah,we can put that in the podcast description.
Yeah, if that's okay. Ididn't want to. I didn't want
you to get in and dated withall kinds of crazy emails, but we
will. We are speaking with BeccaSmith, music therapist, board certified,
and we will have her if youwant to follow up with her any of
the things she said. Like Isaid, she is doing wonderful work in
(35:19):
the community and at the hospital.And if you were, like some of
those folks at RSVP, if you'reinterested in learning more about maybe going down
this as a career path, Ithink that it would be a wonderful resource
for you to connect with. Absolutely, you've been such a gem. So
thank you for stopping by our podcasttoday, Thanks for having me, thank
you, thank you for listening toanother episode of the Keeping National and Healthy
(35:42):
podcast. The podcast is a productionof the Mental health and Recovery Board of
Ashland County, Ohio. You canreach the Board by calling four one nine
two eight one three one three nine. Please remember that the Board funds a
local twenty four to seven crisis linethrough Applese Community Mental Health Center. It
can be reached by calling four onenine two eight nine six one one one.
That's four one nine two eight ninesix one one one. Until next
(36:07):
time, Please join us in keepingAshland healthy.
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