On today’s episode of Keeping Ashland Healthy, Dr. Ashley and the Boss explore the origins and history of Peer Support in Community Behavioral Health. They spend time discussing a local Peer Recovery Program (Pathways) funded by the Board through Catholic Charities. Peer Supporters offer a unique view and strengthen the Behavioral Health Continuum of Care. Learn more about Pathways by visiting their website, calling Catholic Charities (419.289.1903), or the Board at 419.281.3139.
(Record Date: June 12, 2025)
(Record Date: June 12, 2025)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We'll do it.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome. You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast, a
podcast production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of
Ashlyn County, Ohio. Thanks for joining us, and welcome back
to another episode in the studio with me, as always
is doctor Ashley. How are you doing, Doctor Ashley, I'm
doing great.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
How are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm doing well. We were just saying it has been
a little bit since you've recorded a podcast with me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I know you just do it without me. Now I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Ye, well, I can't keep up with you. I've talked
to the audience about your musical concerts. Super Sandy had
to fill in, and then I don't know where you where.
You just were gone, so I was left in my
own devices. Once again. The audience hates that when you're
not here.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I think they'd probably like it.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Nope, I appreciate you being back and a great subject
to talk about today. Something I would not doubt that
our audience has heard at least something about it, which
is peer recovery or peer support services. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I think it's you're hearing about it more lately for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, and it's something that you know, you know in
prep for the episode, we wanted to refresh ourselves on
the history of it. I mean, certainly you and I
being in the community behavioral field for some time, we
were aware of it, but I needed refreshed a little
bit about some of the early roots and that the
history of it.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I actually didn't know some of that, some of the
early early history. Yeah, that was new to me, So
it was kind of cool to learn about that.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well. So I think our structure for the podcast today
audience is to tell you a little bit about peer
support in Ashland County. But before we just jump right
in and do that, yeah, we wanted to set it
within the larger context of the history because it really
does have a rich history, and then a little bit
what Ohio is doing and then specifically how that's playing
(01:47):
out in Ashland County. So stick with us. But a
peer recovery services something that I think, as doctor Ashley said,
if you haven't heard about it, you will because it
continues to grow in popularity and usefulness. So early roots,
I believe it or not. Some you know, some guy
(02:08):
superintendent they used to call him superintendents of psychiatric hospitals
back in the Paris region in seventeen eighty four, Jean
Baptiste Boussan he began employing former patients to support current patients.
So think about that. That was like back then, even
that was kind of cutting edge, the idea that, Okay,
(02:29):
we're struggling to help some of these folks that are
here in the hospital. But Jean had the idea of
bringing in some folks that maybe successfully went through, you know,
their hospital, we're doing better to bring them back in
to support the current patients. And in some ways we
talk about variations on a theme, but that's just it.
(02:50):
The idea that someone's experiences, similar experiences might be brought
to bear for somebody, you know that's maybe struggling, the
other person can relate maybe in a different way.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, like they have a different kind of empathy or
level of understanding of what they're going through. I thought
that was so cool, And like I said, I've never
heard this before.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah. Now, the term a lot of folks mark this
part in our history with what they call the moral
treatment era, and that I was familiar with just because
the history of psychiatry and the helping professions prior to
the moral treatment area era, there was a lot of stigma.
(03:34):
There was a lot of you know, really not treating
folks very well that were presenting with these kinds of
illnesses and issues because a lot of them were primary
physical illnesses that were being mistaken for emotional or mental distress.
So there's a lot of misdiagnosis back then.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Oh yeah, and I think a lot of experimentation. Like
we didn't really know what to do at that time,
so they were trying all kinds of things that we
didn't know the consequences of, which is not now.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
You're poking me, because we still don't know what we're doing.
We're still experiment and we just got more fancy equipment.
We're not doing the ice cold bass and the insulin shock,
but we're doing other versions of that, so stop triggering me. Direc. Yeah,
So that was the eighteen nineteenth century was really the
beginning I think of some of these the moral treatment
(04:24):
movement and you know self you know, getting involved peers
to be helpful, and then they call the self help
and consumer movements in the nineteenth and mid twentieth century.
This was again more folks thought, you know, involuntary confinement
was wrong, the idea that self help, that individuals with
(04:48):
the right education supports could help themselves and maybe didn't
need to rely so much on professionals. Was already starting
to be a thing. Self help groups became a very
common type of peer support, and the idea is like,
we're in this together where we can help each other
what they call mutual aid. We can utilize our shared
(05:11):
experiences and our successes to help each other rather than
relying on the profession at the time, which was a
really medical model.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Heavy at that time, Yeah, and really risky for them,
like scary, probably scary, risky.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Oftentimes, I think folks could had really I think impactful
in persuasive stories about how they were treated, and as
those stories were shared amongst the peer groups, you can
imagine that people were like, oh, I don't want to
go through that, So I think you're right, it was scary,
(05:47):
was traumatizing, absolutely oftentimes. You know, one of the things
we've done always at the Mental Health Recovery Board here
in Ashland and on the podcast is try to be
honest about our history and where we've come from, but
also where we're at currently and not over sell that
we know everything we should know or know more than
(06:07):
we do, and be honest about our limitations because, as
we've talked us before, doctor Asha, the the human mind
of human beings incredibly complex. We have no idea you
know how complex. Yet you know, we've got lots of theory.
Some of them don't pan out at all, so maybe
some utility to them, but we are still learning a
(06:29):
lot because we're just incredibly complex.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah, if we've learned one thing, I think it's that
simple solutions don't work in these complex situations.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You know Amen's sister.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, there you go. Quote that one.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Well, the next period we wanted to highlight is what
they call the psychiatric survivor of movement and the civil
rights influence. Now, this one I'm much more familiar with
because i've you know, we've had them into our RSVP conference.
We've had people from this era sit on our board
in the past, and in fact, we've had leaders in
this psychiatric survivor movement be involved with the board at
(07:09):
a bunch of different levels. So again, this was you know,
there was you know, doctor Asha, I know you weren't
around then, but things were pretty crazy here in the
States in the sixties and seventies. There was a lot
of pushback against all kinds of institutions or traditional ways
of believing and thinking and what we knew, what we
don't know. So there was a lot of that pushback.
(07:30):
In the pushback around you know, psychiatric mental health care
was strong, and people said were fed up with being
treated this way. And I think what having talked with
several of the folks that lived through this, they felt
so invalidated right their experiences, what they'd gone through, how
they were feeling about their lives, and how they were
(07:52):
treated people just in the establishment, so called establishment at
that time. They just discounted their stories, how they felt,
their ideas for solutions, and boy their voices. As you
might imagine. Collectively, these were peers supporting each other and
(08:13):
organizations that they started to form, like you'll love this one,
the Mental Patience Liberation Front that was in seventy one.
They formed that, and one of our former board members
was part of that. The Protection and Advocacy for Individuals
with Mental Illness that was PAMMY. That was a legislative
(08:33):
act that came about in eighty six because a lot
of this protests and the speaking out of the psychiatric
survivor movement, and would you know that Pammy still exists
in the States today.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Our own Trish Risser, Pat Risser's widow, is part of
the PAMMI Council here in Ohio. So some of those things,
you know, even though they started way back in seventeen
eighty four, are bearing some fruit and continue to bear fruit. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Absolutely, I love hearing their stories, and I think it's
really important to know and hear those stories now because
there's still the points that they're making about the system
are still relevant now.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Absolutely. So you know, some of the big things they
talked about back then, you know, you know, force treatment,
involuntary hospitalization, So those were big things that they focused on.
It's like, you know, why should individuals be forced into
treatment without a say, further traumatizing them. Most of them
felt being hospitalized against their will, which still goes on today,
(09:41):
but we've certainly curtailed that. We've made that much harder
to do. It really does need to be somebody who
is an imminent threat to themselves or others. That what
I mean by that audience we've done episodes on crisis services,
is that the person really needs to be articulating that
they are fully intending and planning to take their own
life for the life of others. And if they can't
(10:05):
be moved off that and they the assessor feels that
they are very serious about that, then obviously for the
safety of themselves in the public, an involuntary hospitalization might
be in order. But those are again very short term because,
as we've talked about, most folks don't stay there. The vast,
vast majority of folks that are feeling that distress, that
(10:27):
level of distress don't stay there for very long. So
most of these holds in these hospitalizations are three, four
or five days, and usually the person can be helped
and then returned to the community. But back in the
day the force hospitalizations, doctor Ashley might it might be
hard to hear and maybe the audience they could last years.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, that's the big difference. Yeah, and involuntary hospitalization is
taking away someone's right right. They don't have the choice
anymore to go, And I think that's why it's so
important that you know, it's only when when they're a
threat to themselves or others.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, I've told the story before, but I think it
bears repeating. My first experience going to the state psychiatric
hospital in Masslin Heartland Behavioral Healthcare, when I was a
counselor and working with a patient and client that was admitted,
you know, going through to the locked unit. You know,
(11:26):
when the double doors locked behind me for the first time,
was the first small inkling of maybe what other people
might feel, because I recognized that I couldn't just get out.
I couldn't just open the door and leave. If I
changed my mind, I was going to have to seek
(11:46):
out a staff person and ask them to let me out.
It just so for me, even is a counselor just
visiting somebody. When those two doors closed, I felt trapped. Yeah,
and I thought I was there for my owner cognizance.
(12:08):
I was there voluntarily to visit. I was a professional.
How might that feel if I wasn't there by my
own choice and desperately wanted to get out but couldn't.
And yeah, that changed my perspective a lot. And I was,
believe it or not, doctor Ashall. I was young one,
so I was pretty young, But that had an impact
on me. That's lasted. And while those types of facilities
(12:33):
do have a purpose, I mean, Heartland still exists today,
but I can say the audience, their length to stay.
I just talked with the director of the hospital last week.
Their length to stay is around you know, seven to
ten days rather than seven to ten years. Right, things
have changed. I want the audience to know that. And
if you were to go to Heartland today versus twenty
(12:53):
twenty five years ago, I think you wouldn't notice massive
changes in the way they interact with folks and understand trauma,
understand for a lot of them that the hospitalization is
a traumatic experience. So all that to say that this
peer effort that really ramped up in the sixties and
seventies and then with the legislation of the PAMIAC in
(13:14):
eighty six really has had long, long term, long lasting,
I think, positive impacts. And then I think moving into
sixties and nineties, we just saw more legislation and more
efforts around making it more normal for community settings to
have peer supporters. So the idea in the nineties is
(13:37):
where I started to pay attention to what they call
like structured peer recovery models or systems of care that
were starting to ramp up, and that just continued to
get I think more pronounced than when Medicaid started recognizing
and funding, and that was around two thousand and seven.
(13:58):
I believe the service as legit as we like to say. So,
you know, if you can't get a major insurance company
like Medicaid to pay for a service, it's really hard
for an organization or an agency to hire peers to
do peer work if there's not a ready funding source.
So that was a big deal that Medicaid recognized the
(14:19):
value of peer support services in the help of individuals
that are also struggling. So you know, that started and
has done nothing but grow, and I believe they they
paid for peer supporters that were helping folks with drug
alcohol concerns first and then just more recently they've also
(14:41):
included mental health. So at this point it's really I mean, again,
all those years ago, who would have thunk it, But
now it's pretty much in Ohio and throughout most of
the states because Medicaid's national, it's really been legitimatized in
some ways. So it's part of the service. It's a
part of the continuum of services that individuals can expect.
(15:04):
And I think maybe people still ask, well, what does
that really mean then, David, So, I think the core
of what peer support is is again, the individual that's
providing peer support. Yes, they've been trained. We can go
over a little bit maybe later on about what that
is like, what the training process is, at least in Ohio.
But this is somebody that's received training, but that training
(15:27):
is really designed to harness their successful recovery and experiences
and to utilize those in helping others. So again, everybody's
recovery is unique and different, but there are some similarities
and there's ways maybe to learn from somebody's similar experiences.
I mean, and I mean you can apply that. Hopefully
(15:50):
the audience can apply this. Just for primary medical if
I'm struggling, whether it might be think of any kind
of treatment, whether it's an arm, high blood pressure. You know,
I start taking a medication. What's the first thing I'm
going to say, is anybody else take this medication?
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Right?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
What happened to you? What was it like for you?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Right?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Think about that? You know all the time, because I'm
around older people, they're having knees and hip replacements all
the time, right, So what are they doing? They're talking
to people that have gone through it? What are people
always doing? Their sharing? Right? Oh, this is this is
what's going to happen. This is what happened for me.
You might want to think about that, you know what
I mean. So, yeah, so those are there's all kinds
of that kind of that's natural to do, right. I mean,
(16:28):
you talk to people that have been through divorce, what do
they do? Right, They're talking like, oh, this is what
I been reminded me. Yeah, you know, so I think
people get the fact that, you know, you know, common
experiences can be leveraged in a positive way to help
other people. So, you know, you know, the person the
peer support might say, you know, I went through something
(16:48):
very similar, not exactly the same, but something similar, and
these are the kinds of things that I thought made
things easier better help me, They might help you. These
are things that you might want to consider avoiding not
doing because I found that it made it worse for me.
So does that make sense at trash that Yeah, they
leverage that.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, it's it's they use their experience to kind of
guide someone through their own process. It may not be
the same, but they can relate, they can kind of
understand and and give them tools for their own journey.
I think, right, yep, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, that that that ability and againnot not everybody who's
been through something makes a good peer supporter. So the
mere fact that you've had experiences doesn't necessarily make you
a good peer supporter. So that's where the training comes in, right.
So you still have to have a desire to do that,
of course, but to also be able to not uh,
(17:38):
you know, kind of forgive the expression vomit your experiences
onto the other person and see the other person exactly
like you and say, no, no, this is what worked
for me, it's going to work for you too, So
do what my you know, do what I did.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, No, that's true, that's very true. I think that
that also brought an important point to my mind about
peer supporters what they get from doing peer so yeah,
so they point for some people, they find purpose in
helping others go through those things too then and it's
part of their healing their own recovery process too in
a way. But like that end stage, so it's a
(18:12):
really cool process.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah. So just to talk a little bit more about
that process here in Ohio, lease, and there are some
variations here, you know, let's talk about, you know, to
be a certified peer supporter. I mean, basically we're talking
about individuals with direct lived experience of behavioral health challenges
who are trained to support others on their recovery journey.
And there's three types of certification here in Ohio. Adult,
Family and Youth Young Adult requires forty hours of training,
(18:37):
three years or three years of verifiable peer service work,
sixteen hours of online coursework and exam, adherence to a
code of ethics, background checks continuing ed and every two years.
And what they tried to do, Doctor Ashley, you and
I are both licensed counselors, and they tried to create
standards that were similar, not exactly similar to the other,
(19:01):
whether you're a social worker, marriage or family therapist, you know, counselor,
et cetera. We talked about music and art therapy has
done similar things. So they wanted to create a structure
that again gave the public, you know, in individuals, you know,
confidence that the person that helping them has been vetted
(19:21):
for lack of a better word, and they have the education, experience, training, oversight, supervision,
and feel safe because ultimately that's what these credentialing boards do.
It's really there to protect the public, to make sure
that the people providing these these services because people are
very vulnerable when they come into our system, we have
to have these kinds of mechanisms to sure people are safe. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Absolutely, So they go through the process.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I mean there's some education experience, high school ged, complete
all the training, submit applications, and have to be supervised
by someone who's trained to supervise. Because supervising somebody that's
a peer supporter is different than supervising when I used
to supervise counselors the social word. It's different because you
(20:06):
have to really understand there's some unique I think points
where the person might be struggling, like we talked earlier,
maybe to make sure that they're not overly sharing, they're
not overly seeing the help that they're giving through their
own you know, they're.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Not, yeah, or that it could even be harming them, right,
They have to be contreatant of how it's impacting themselves.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Right. So, I mean, let's face it, if you know,
as counselors ourselves, you know, sometimes the person sitting across
me is describing a situation or feeling that was really
really similar something my way through. So in some way,
you know, I'm a peer in that regard, and if
perhaps I haven't dealt with that as much or worked
through that as much as I thought I did, it
(20:49):
might trigger me to feel ooh, and then what happens
the objectivity starts to go right. And that's really important
maybe for the audience to know about the whole counseling process,
that there has to be degree of objectivity in the helper,
because if they're to a mess or too subjectively stimulated
by what's going on, you know, they're probably not able
(21:10):
to give you some of the advice you might need
that kind of distance. I'm not saying that that sharing
is always wrong by any means. It's just you have
to monitor that you could overshare as a counselor.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yes you can, yes, excuse my coffee.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
So the question we get that is some of these
folks they go through all the training, Uh, they've passed,
they've got the certificate. What do they do with it? Well,
typically they run, they're they're employed by organizations like you know,
our our Apples, Catholic Charities, a KITA. All three of
(21:51):
them have peer supporters in them and they work for agencies.
They build insurance just like the other professionals do. They
work as part of a team, they get the supervision,
they have paperwork and productivity expectations like everybody else, and
you know, they really are treated as fellow professionals. Now,
let me do a brief excursive here to say that
(22:14):
is not everybody's Uh wasn't everybody's goal for peer supporters.
So I I do talk to some folks that have
bemoaned the professionalization of peer support services. I think there's
probably room for both. But there are a group of
folks that feel, like, you know, peer support shouldn't be professionalized.
(22:38):
This is more like the AA n A folks with
that model, which is, you know, they really have stood
outside of professional organizations. They want to be purely self
help and non professional if you will.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
In that Y're not being paid by an organization, they're
not employed to do that, right, correct?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
For some folks, they feel the professionalization that self help
has harmed it in some way or changed it, changed
it in such a way that it's not quite the same.
And I would think, of course that's true. It's not
the same because you are getting paid. Are you still
using your experiences and all of that to help? Yep?
But maybe it's the motivation perhaps is different.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I just I only say that after Ashley, just because
it is it's a live debate, it's not been settled.
So you'll find some peer supporters that are unpaid versus paid,
and there sometimes is some tension between those two groups.
But I think it's a good conversation. I think they
both can be helpful for both.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
I think yet absolutely so this idea.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
You know, we're very fortunate in Nashal County that all
three of our agencies understand the role and the purpose
of peers they're employing them. We've talked in other episodes
about the workforce challenges that community behavioral health has experienced,
and Ohio has been leading the way in employing peer
(23:58):
supporters because of that. I mean, quite frankly, doctor Ashley,
we need as many people that want to help and
be involved with community behavior health as possible. So I
think the state was encouraged and motivated to bring peer
supporters into the workforce to help us because we just,
quite frankly, audience, we just don't have enough people that
(24:19):
want to work in community behavior health. Now there's reasons
for that. That's a totally separate podcast.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, that's for another day.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
But and we're trying to make the system more attractive
to young people like you, doctor Ashley.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I'm not young anymore though, Oh okay.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Well if you're not, I'm not for sure. And we've
got we were doing some things, but having the peers
join has helped with some of our workforce issues.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah. I found that as like when I was doing
counseling too, Like, it was really helpful for me to
have my clients with peer supporters because I could only
see them once a week. My schedule is crazy, right,
we have shortage of counselors. But if you know, in
the time that I wasn't seeing them, peer supporters would
and they would be working with them outside of counseling,
and that really I thought it really helped.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Honestly, Well this might sound silly, but most of what
I say silly, but when I worked, but I didn't
work along a pier sport for very long, but when
I did at my last job, what I cracked me
up was, you know, as we're like teaming, like how
we're going to approach the person, you know, the client
the team's working with, and I would I would like
(25:25):
say certain things that I was getting ready to do
or say. What I always loved was like the peers
like that's dumb, Like like I don't think that's a
good eye. So they would be like they would bring
that perspective to the team meeting and changed the way
the team approached and worked with the individual because they say, listen,
you know, I mean, you guys might think that this
(25:46):
is a good but I'm telling you my street experience,
my similar experience tells me that's not a good work.
That's not going to work. And more often, more often
that they were right. So they really became rather than
you know, them being brought in more into our way
of thinking. I think, at least for that person and
our team, we we we learn more from them. I'm
(26:08):
sure some from us, but we learn more from them.
And really, but that requires everybody respecting the other person's
experiences and education and all of that. So when you
have that degree of mutual respect, I really think peers
can be an invaluable part of a team concept.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, really cool and more effective for sure?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Or sure? Yeah? One before we go, I want to
talk about then our primary peer support program, which is
the Pathways program through Catholic Charities. And we'll put some
additional information in the program description, but Catholic Charities primary
number is the four one nine two eight nine three,
(26:50):
So if folks want to learn more about Pathways, So
Catholic Charities is the organization that oversees and provides the
Pathways Peers support program in what they do. They're located
down the professional building on Second Street, the corner of
Second in Church and that's right across from the courthouse.
(27:10):
If folks don't know that area of town, but it's
right in that building and they do programming Monday through Friday.
They've got different programs going on. A lot of it's
group work, so they're peers helping other people that are
struggling with mental emotional issues. It's offered it no cost
to the folks. The board funds that, so we were
able to offer that at no cost to anybody who
(27:32):
wants to be involved. So you've got peers helping peers
down there every day. They do have some professional staff
that are also there, yeah, along working alongside them.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
They have a lot on their calendar. They do a
lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
So for the audience, doctor Ashton and I are looking
at the June twenty twenty five calendar, but they do
this every month, so they updake this every month and
again you can go to the link in the episode
description for this. But you know they're they're checking in
every day with folks. They're talking you know, about healthy relationships.
They're talking about writing as a way to tell their story,
(28:08):
as a way to express that. They have the sewing group,
which goes way back to the early days of the
peer support program, where you know, I have seen especially
guys that like have never sewed in their life and
like super against it, but they get sucked in. Trish
and some of the other folks down there are wonderful
of saying, well, you know, try to do a square
(28:29):
and show them how to do a square, and next thing,
you know, they got a quilt. It's amazing. Derek and
some of the folks down there have been doing this
for a long time, but sewing just as a positive
thing that they can create with that and time.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
So they create that stuff and sometimes they sell it.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Cool. There's a lot of the products down there that
they try to again they sell for the purposes of
support in the program. Yeah, they talk about exercise and
budgeting and communicating. They've got a Bible study group. They
talk about some of the things like you know, triggers
and blaming accountry. So it's not just you know, it's
practical stuff. I mean even cooking. But there's plenty of
(29:08):
things that they're involved with.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, I don't think it is really practical. I love that.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
One of the things I like is Fridays they try
to have more of a more relaxing time. So they
might go out to one of the parks. We've got
many parks here in Ashton County. We've talked about that
a lot, so they might do a pic at the park,
they might go to a movie and have a meal,
so just normal stuff. And that's partly what happens a
lot of the folks that are going through the program,
(29:33):
and they don't stay very long. I think the experience
is most people that are in pathways, there's a core
group of folks that are there that are peers to
the new folks that come in. But a new person
will come in for a period of time, get what
you know, the skills they need, the support they need,
and then they'll exit the program, which is that's normal,
that's what we expect. The idea we used to joke
(29:54):
about this, it's not a catch and keep program. We
don't want the program to grow, you know, to hundreds
in hundreds, because that would mean that they're not getting
the skills and moving on with their lives and a
natural kind of support. So I've been really impressed with
Catholic charities working to structure Pathways such that it really
is producing success on a daily basis down there. And
(30:18):
some of the stories that I've heard, and I know
you've heard through some of the reporting that they do
are really inspirational folks that you know, they're developing friendships,
they're get involved with their education and employment, they're just
doing things, making connections that for a lot of them
are lifelong. And these are oftentimes very isolated individuals before
they get involved with Pathways. So our agencies make referrals
(30:41):
all the time, other agencies here in town that you know,
anybody can make a referral to it, so they do
take them from all over. So appreciate deb Berkshire. She's
been the lead on the professional end to supervise and
work with all the other peers to make sure that
the program is running well everybody's say and receiving benefit
(31:03):
by it.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, she does a great job with ye.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
So I will encourage folks. You know, if you know
somebody you yourself might be interested in a peer program.
Pathways is a great program that you might want to
check out, or you can refer a loved one to
at least go in and see, because that's just it,
doctor Ashley. Folks can go down there, check it out,
see what's going on, look at the calendar, attend a
(31:26):
few things. I mean, there's no obligation. I feel like
I'm selling like a sham wow or something great. There
is no obligation if you want to go down and
check out the program, and if you don't like it,
that's fine.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
I would also say, like people with lived experience that
might be interested in becoming a peer supporter, now it's
a great time to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yes it is, thank you for bringing that up. Yes,
or some training, but if you work with Pathways, they
can help guide you through that process, offer support on
the education and the training components. They even have a
nice internet connection down there in a big screen, so
if you want to do some of that stuff remotely,
I think they can make arrangements for that as well.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
So it's great.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
So hopefully audience, you've learned a little bit about the
peer movement that goes all the way back there to
the late seventeen hundreds. It developed over the years. The
sixties seventies really jump started. I think the conversations brought
about some legislations that now has been enacted in most states,
(32:24):
whether it's the PAMMI councilors or the peer supporter process
like we have in Ohio and all of that boom.
We've got peer supporters in all of our agencies. We've
got a peer support program that's active, has been actor
for many years, and I really think is making a difference.
So Ashland County, there you go. You know more about
peer recovery and peer supporters here in the county.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
So peer support pros.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
All right, Well, I will see you next time, doctor Ashley,
and see you audience. Thank you for listening to another
episode of the Keeping National and Healthy podcast. The podcast
is a production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board
of Ashland County, Ohio. You can reach the board by
calling four one nine, two eight one three one three nine.
Please remember that the board funds a local twenty four
(33:07):
seven crisis line through Applese Community Mental Health Center. It
can be reached by calling four one nine two eight
nine sixty one one one. That's four one nine two
eight nine sixty one one one. Until next time, Please
join us in keeping Ashland healthy.
We'll do it.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome. You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast, a
podcast production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of
Ashlyn County, Ohio. Thanks for joining us, and welcome back
to another episode in the studio with me, as always
is doctor Ashley. How are you doing, Doctor Ashley, I'm
doing great.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
How are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm doing well. We were just saying it has been
a little bit since you've recorded a podcast with me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I know you just do it without me. Now I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Ye, well, I can't keep up with you. I've talked
to the audience about your musical concerts. Super Sandy had
to fill in, and then I don't know where you where.
You just were gone, so I was left in my
own devices. Once again. The audience hates that when you're
not here.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I think they'd probably like it.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Nope, I appreciate you being back and a great subject
to talk about today. Something I would not doubt that
our audience has heard at least something about it, which
is peer recovery or peer support services. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I think it's you're hearing about it more lately for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, and it's something that you know, you know in
prep for the episode, we wanted to refresh ourselves on
the history of it. I mean, certainly you and I
being in the community behavioral field for some time, we
were aware of it, but I needed refreshed a little
bit about some of the early roots and that the
history of it.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I actually didn't know some of that, some of the
early early history. Yeah, that was new to me, So
it was kind of cool to learn about that.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well. So I think our structure for the podcast today
audience is to tell you a little bit about peer
support in Ashland County. But before we just jump right
in and do that, yeah, we wanted to set it
within the larger context of the history because it really
does have a rich history, and then a little bit
what Ohio is doing and then specifically how that's playing
(01:47):
out in Ashland County. So stick with us. But a
peer recovery services something that I think, as doctor Ashley said,
if you haven't heard about it, you will because it
continues to grow in popularity and usefulness. So early roots,
I believe it or not. Some you know, some guy
(02:08):
superintendent they used to call him superintendents of psychiatric hospitals
back in the Paris region in seventeen eighty four, Jean
Baptiste Boussan he began employing former patients to support current patients.
So think about that. That was like back then, even
that was kind of cutting edge, the idea that, Okay,
(02:29):
we're struggling to help some of these folks that are
here in the hospital. But Jean had the idea of
bringing in some folks that maybe successfully went through, you know,
their hospital, we're doing better to bring them back in
to support the current patients. And in some ways we
talk about variations on a theme, but that's just it.
(02:50):
The idea that someone's experiences, similar experiences might be brought
to bear for somebody, you know that's maybe struggling, the
other person can relate maybe in a different way.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, like they have a different kind of empathy or
level of understanding of what they're going through. I thought
that was so cool, And like I said, I've never
heard this before.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah. Now, the term a lot of folks mark this
part in our history with what they call the moral
treatment era, and that I was familiar with just because
the history of psychiatry and the helping professions prior to
the moral treatment area era, there was a lot of stigma.
(03:34):
There was a lot of you know, really not treating
folks very well that were presenting with these kinds of
illnesses and issues because a lot of them were primary
physical illnesses that were being mistaken for emotional or mental distress.
So there's a lot of misdiagnosis back then.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Oh yeah, and I think a lot of experimentation. Like
we didn't really know what to do at that time,
so they were trying all kinds of things that we
didn't know the consequences of, which is not now.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
You're poking me, because we still don't know what we're doing.
We're still experiment and we just got more fancy equipment.
We're not doing the ice cold bass and the insulin shock,
but we're doing other versions of that, so stop triggering me. Direc. Yeah,
So that was the eighteen nineteenth century was really the
beginning I think of some of these the moral treatment
(04:24):
movement and you know self you know, getting involved peers
to be helpful, and then they call the self help
and consumer movements in the nineteenth and mid twentieth century.
This was again more folks thought, you know, involuntary confinement
was wrong, the idea that self help, that individuals with
(04:48):
the right education supports could help themselves and maybe didn't
need to rely so much on professionals. Was already starting
to be a thing. Self help groups became a very
common type of peer support, and the idea is like,
we're in this together where we can help each other
what they call mutual aid. We can utilize our shared
(05:11):
experiences and our successes to help each other rather than
relying on the profession at the time, which was a
really medical model.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Heavy at that time, Yeah, and really risky for them,
like scary, probably scary, risky.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Oftentimes, I think folks could had really I think impactful
in persuasive stories about how they were treated, and as
those stories were shared amongst the peer groups, you can
imagine that people were like, oh, I don't want to
go through that, So I think you're right, it was scary,
(05:47):
was traumatizing, absolutely oftentimes. You know, one of the things
we've done always at the Mental Health Recovery Board here
in Ashland and on the podcast is try to be
honest about our history and where we've come from, but
also where we're at currently and not over sell that
we know everything we should know or know more than
(06:07):
we do, and be honest about our limitations because, as
we've talked us before, doctor Asha, the the human mind
of human beings incredibly complex. We have no idea you
know how complex. Yet you know, we've got lots of theory.
Some of them don't pan out at all, so maybe
some utility to them, but we are still learning a
(06:29):
lot because we're just incredibly complex.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah, if we've learned one thing, I think it's that
simple solutions don't work in these complex situations.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You know Amen's sister.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, there you go. Quote that one.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Well, the next period we wanted to highlight is what
they call the psychiatric survivor of movement and the civil
rights influence. Now, this one I'm much more familiar with
because i've you know, we've had them into our RSVP conference.
We've had people from this era sit on our board
in the past, and in fact, we've had leaders in
this psychiatric survivor movement be involved with the board at
(07:09):
a bunch of different levels. So again, this was you know,
there was you know, doctor Asha, I know you weren't
around then, but things were pretty crazy here in the
States in the sixties and seventies. There was a lot
of pushback against all kinds of institutions or traditional ways
of believing and thinking and what we knew, what we
don't know. So there was a lot of that pushback.
(07:30):
In the pushback around you know, psychiatric mental health care
was strong, and people said were fed up with being
treated this way. And I think what having talked with
several of the folks that lived through this, they felt
so invalidated right their experiences, what they'd gone through, how
they were feeling about their lives, and how they were
(07:52):
treated people just in the establishment, so called establishment at
that time. They just discounted their stories, how they felt,
their ideas for solutions, and boy their voices. As you
might imagine. Collectively, these were peers supporting each other and
(08:13):
organizations that they started to form, like you'll love this one,
the Mental Patience Liberation Front that was in seventy one.
They formed that, and one of our former board members
was part of that. The Protection and Advocacy for Individuals
with Mental Illness that was PAMMY. That was a legislative
(08:33):
act that came about in eighty six because a lot
of this protests and the speaking out of the psychiatric
survivor movement, and would you know that Pammy still exists
in the States today.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Our own Trish Risser, Pat Risser's widow, is part of
the PAMMI Council here in Ohio. So some of those things,
you know, even though they started way back in seventeen
eighty four, are bearing some fruit and continue to bear fruit. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Absolutely, I love hearing their stories, and I think it's
really important to know and hear those stories now because
there's still the points that they're making about the system
are still relevant now.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Absolutely. So you know, some of the big things they
talked about back then, you know, you know, force treatment,
involuntary hospitalization, So those were big things that they focused on.
It's like, you know, why should individuals be forced into
treatment without a say, further traumatizing them. Most of them
felt being hospitalized against their will, which still goes on today,
(09:41):
but we've certainly curtailed that. We've made that much harder
to do. It really does need to be somebody who
is an imminent threat to themselves or others. That what
I mean by that audience we've done episodes on crisis services,
is that the person really needs to be articulating that
they are fully intending and planning to take their own
life for the life of others. And if they can't
(10:05):
be moved off that and they the assessor feels that
they are very serious about that, then obviously for the
safety of themselves in the public, an involuntary hospitalization might
be in order. But those are again very short term because,
as we've talked about, most folks don't stay there. The vast,
vast majority of folks that are feeling that distress, that
(10:27):
level of distress don't stay there for very long. So
most of these holds in these hospitalizations are three, four
or five days, and usually the person can be helped
and then returned to the community. But back in the
day the force hospitalizations, doctor Ashley might it might be
hard to hear and maybe the audience they could last years.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, that's the big difference. Yeah, and involuntary hospitalization is
taking away someone's right right. They don't have the choice
anymore to go, And I think that's why it's so
important that you know, it's only when when they're a
threat to themselves or others.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, I've told the story before, but I think it
bears repeating. My first experience going to the state psychiatric
hospital in Masslin Heartland Behavioral Healthcare, when I was a
counselor and working with a patient and client that was admitted,
you know, going through to the locked unit. You know,
(11:26):
when the double doors locked behind me for the first time,
was the first small inkling of maybe what other people
might feel, because I recognized that I couldn't just get out.
I couldn't just open the door and leave. If I
changed my mind, I was going to have to seek
(11:46):
out a staff person and ask them to let me out.
It just so for me, even is a counselor just
visiting somebody. When those two doors closed, I felt trapped. Yeah,
and I thought I was there for my owner cognizance.
(12:08):
I was there voluntarily to visit. I was a professional.
How might that feel if I wasn't there by my
own choice and desperately wanted to get out but couldn't.
And yeah, that changed my perspective a lot. And I was,
believe it or not, doctor Ashall. I was young one,
so I was pretty young, But that had an impact
on me. That's lasted. And while those types of facilities
(12:33):
do have a purpose, I mean, Heartland still exists today,
but I can say the audience, their length to stay.
I just talked with the director of the hospital last week.
Their length to stay is around you know, seven to
ten days rather than seven to ten years. Right, things
have changed. I want the audience to know that. And
if you were to go to Heartland today versus twenty
(12:53):
twenty five years ago, I think you wouldn't notice massive
changes in the way they interact with folks and understand trauma,
understand for a lot of them that the hospitalization is
a traumatic experience. So all that to say that this
peer effort that really ramped up in the sixties and
seventies and then with the legislation of the PAMIAC in
(13:14):
eighty six really has had long, long term, long lasting,
I think, positive impacts. And then I think moving into
sixties and nineties, we just saw more legislation and more
efforts around making it more normal for community settings to
have peer supporters. So the idea in the nineties is
(13:37):
where I started to pay attention to what they call
like structured peer recovery models or systems of care that
were starting to ramp up, and that just continued to
get I think more pronounced than when Medicaid started recognizing
and funding, and that was around two thousand and seven.
(13:58):
I believe the service as legit as we like to say. So,
you know, if you can't get a major insurance company
like Medicaid to pay for a service, it's really hard
for an organization or an agency to hire peers to
do peer work if there's not a ready funding source.
So that was a big deal that Medicaid recognized the
(14:19):
value of peer support services in the help of individuals
that are also struggling. So you know, that started and
has done nothing but grow, and I believe they they
paid for peer supporters that were helping folks with drug
alcohol concerns first and then just more recently they've also
(14:41):
included mental health. So at this point it's really I mean, again,
all those years ago, who would have thunk it, But
now it's pretty much in Ohio and throughout most of
the states because Medicaid's national, it's really been legitimatized in
some ways. So it's part of the service. It's a
part of the continuum of services that individuals can expect.
(15:04):
And I think maybe people still ask, well, what does
that really mean then, David, So, I think the core
of what peer support is is again, the individual that's
providing peer support. Yes, they've been trained. We can go
over a little bit maybe later on about what that
is like, what the training process is, at least in Ohio.
But this is somebody that's received training, but that training
(15:27):
is really designed to harness their successful recovery and experiences
and to utilize those in helping others. So again, everybody's
recovery is unique and different, but there are some similarities
and there's ways maybe to learn from somebody's similar experiences.
I mean, and I mean you can apply that. Hopefully
(15:50):
the audience can apply this. Just for primary medical if
I'm struggling, whether it might be think of any kind
of treatment, whether it's an arm, high blood pressure. You know,
I start taking a medication. What's the first thing I'm
going to say, is anybody else take this medication?
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Right?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
What happened to you? What was it like for you?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Right?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Think about that? You know all the time, because I'm
around older people, they're having knees and hip replacements all
the time, right, So what are they doing? They're talking
to people that have gone through it? What are people
always doing? Their sharing? Right? Oh, this is this is
what's going to happen. This is what happened for me.
You might want to think about that, you know what
I mean. So, yeah, so those are there's all kinds
of that kind of that's natural to do, right. I mean,
(16:28):
you talk to people that have been through divorce, what do
they do? Right, They're talking like, oh, this is what
I been reminded me. Yeah, you know, so I think
people get the fact that, you know, you know, common
experiences can be leveraged in a positive way to help
other people. So, you know, you know, the person the
peer support might say, you know, I went through something
(16:48):
very similar, not exactly the same, but something similar, and
these are the kinds of things that I thought made
things easier better help me, They might help you. These
are things that you might want to consider avoiding not
doing because I found that it made it worse for me.
So does that make sense at trash that Yeah, they
leverage that.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, it's it's they use their experience to kind of
guide someone through their own process. It may not be
the same, but they can relate, they can kind of
understand and and give them tools for their own journey.
I think, right, yep, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, that that that ability and againnot not everybody who's
been through something makes a good peer supporter. So the
mere fact that you've had experiences doesn't necessarily make you
a good peer supporter. So that's where the training comes in, right.
So you still have to have a desire to do that,
of course, but to also be able to not uh,
(17:38):
you know, kind of forgive the expression vomit your experiences
onto the other person and see the other person exactly
like you and say, no, no, this is what worked
for me, it's going to work for you too, So
do what my you know, do what I did.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, No, that's true, that's very true. I think that
that also brought an important point to my mind about
peer supporters what they get from doing peer so yeah,
so they point for some people, they find purpose in
helping others go through those things too then and it's
part of their healing their own recovery process too in
a way. But like that end stage, so it's a
(18:12):
really cool process.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah. So just to talk a little bit more about
that process here in Ohio, lease, and there are some
variations here, you know, let's talk about, you know, to
be a certified peer supporter. I mean, basically we're talking
about individuals with direct lived experience of behavioral health challenges
who are trained to support others on their recovery journey.
And there's three types of certification here in Ohio. Adult,
Family and Youth Young Adult requires forty hours of training,
(18:37):
three years or three years of verifiable peer service work,
sixteen hours of online coursework and exam, adherence to a
code of ethics, background checks continuing ed and every two years.
And what they tried to do, Doctor Ashley, you and
I are both licensed counselors, and they tried to create
standards that were similar, not exactly similar to the other,
(19:01):
whether you're a social worker, marriage or family therapist, you know, counselor,
et cetera. We talked about music and art therapy has
done similar things. So they wanted to create a structure
that again gave the public, you know, in individuals, you know,
confidence that the person that helping them has been vetted
(19:21):
for lack of a better word, and they have the education, experience, training, oversight, supervision,
and feel safe because ultimately that's what these credentialing boards do.
It's really there to protect the public, to make sure
that the people providing these these services because people are
very vulnerable when they come into our system, we have
to have these kinds of mechanisms to sure people are safe. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Absolutely, So they go through the process.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I mean there's some education experience, high school ged, complete
all the training, submit applications, and have to be supervised
by someone who's trained to supervise. Because supervising somebody that's
a peer supporter is different than supervising when I used
to supervise counselors the social word. It's different because you
(20:06):
have to really understand there's some unique I think points
where the person might be struggling, like we talked earlier,
maybe to make sure that they're not overly sharing, they're
not overly seeing the help that they're giving through their
own you know, they're.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Not, yeah, or that it could even be harming them, right,
They have to be contreatant of how it's impacting themselves.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Right. So, I mean, let's face it, if you know,
as counselors ourselves, you know, sometimes the person sitting across
me is describing a situation or feeling that was really
really similar something my way through. So in some way,
you know, I'm a peer in that regard, and if
perhaps I haven't dealt with that as much or worked
through that as much as I thought I did, it
(20:49):
might trigger me to feel ooh, and then what happens
the objectivity starts to go right. And that's really important
maybe for the audience to know about the whole counseling process,
that there has to be degree of objectivity in the helper,
because if they're to a mess or too subjectively stimulated
by what's going on, you know, they're probably not able
(21:10):
to give you some of the advice you might need
that kind of distance. I'm not saying that that sharing
is always wrong by any means. It's just you have
to monitor that you could overshare as a counselor.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yes you can, yes, excuse my coffee.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
So the question we get that is some of these
folks they go through all the training, Uh, they've passed,
they've got the certificate. What do they do with it? Well,
typically they run, they're they're employed by organizations like you know,
our our Apples, Catholic Charities, a KITA. All three of
(21:51):
them have peer supporters in them and they work for agencies.
They build insurance just like the other professionals do. They
work as part of a team, they get the supervision,
they have paperwork and productivity expectations like everybody else, and
you know, they really are treated as fellow professionals. Now,
let me do a brief excursive here to say that
(22:14):
is not everybody's Uh wasn't everybody's goal for peer supporters.
So I I do talk to some folks that have
bemoaned the professionalization of peer support services. I think there's
probably room for both. But there are a group of
folks that feel, like, you know, peer support shouldn't be professionalized.
(22:38):
This is more like the AA n A folks with
that model, which is, you know, they really have stood
outside of professional organizations. They want to be purely self
help and non professional if you will.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
In that Y're not being paid by an organization, they're
not employed to do that, right, correct?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
For some folks, they feel the professionalization that self help
has harmed it in some way or changed it, changed
it in such a way that it's not quite the same.
And I would think, of course that's true. It's not
the same because you are getting paid. Are you still
using your experiences and all of that to help? Yep?
But maybe it's the motivation perhaps is different.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I just I only say that after Ashley, just because
it is it's a live debate, it's not been settled.
So you'll find some peer supporters that are unpaid versus paid,
and there sometimes is some tension between those two groups.
But I think it's a good conversation. I think they
both can be helpful for both.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
I think yet absolutely so this idea.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
You know, we're very fortunate in Nashal County that all
three of our agencies understand the role and the purpose
of peers they're employing them. We've talked in other episodes
about the workforce challenges that community behavioral health has experienced,
and Ohio has been leading the way in employing peer
(23:58):
supporters because of that. I mean, quite frankly, doctor Ashley,
we need as many people that want to help and
be involved with community behavior health as possible. So I
think the state was encouraged and motivated to bring peer
supporters into the workforce to help us because we just,
quite frankly, audience, we just don't have enough people that
(24:19):
want to work in community behavior health. Now there's reasons
for that. That's a totally separate podcast.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, that's for another day.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
But and we're trying to make the system more attractive
to young people like you, doctor Ashley.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I'm not young anymore though, Oh okay.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Well if you're not, I'm not for sure. And we've
got we were doing some things, but having the peers
join has helped with some of our workforce issues.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah. I found that as like when I was doing
counseling too, Like, it was really helpful for me to
have my clients with peer supporters because I could only
see them once a week. My schedule is crazy, right,
we have shortage of counselors. But if you know, in
the time that I wasn't seeing them, peer supporters would
and they would be working with them outside of counseling,
and that really I thought it really helped.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Honestly, Well this might sound silly, but most of what
I say silly, but when I worked, but I didn't
work along a pier sport for very long, but when
I did at my last job, what I cracked me
up was, you know, as we're like teaming, like how
we're going to approach the person, you know, the client
the team's working with, and I would I would like
(25:25):
say certain things that I was getting ready to do
or say. What I always loved was like the peers
like that's dumb, Like like I don't think that's a
good eye. So they would be like they would bring
that perspective to the team meeting and changed the way
the team approached and worked with the individual because they say, listen,
you know, I mean, you guys might think that this
(25:46):
is a good but I'm telling you my street experience,
my similar experience tells me that's not a good work.
That's not going to work. And more often, more often
that they were right. So they really became rather than
you know, them being brought in more into our way
of thinking. I think, at least for that person and
our team, we we we learn more from them. I'm
(26:08):
sure some from us, but we learn more from them.
And really, but that requires everybody respecting the other person's
experiences and education and all of that. So when you
have that degree of mutual respect, I really think peers
can be an invaluable part of a team concept.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah, really cool and more effective for sure?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Or sure? Yeah? One before we go, I want to
talk about then our primary peer support program, which is
the Pathways program through Catholic Charities. And we'll put some
additional information in the program description, but Catholic Charities primary
number is the four one nine two eight nine three,
(26:50):
So if folks want to learn more about Pathways, So
Catholic Charities is the organization that oversees and provides the
Pathways Peers support program in what they do. They're located
down the professional building on Second Street, the corner of
Second in Church and that's right across from the courthouse.
(27:10):
If folks don't know that area of town, but it's
right in that building and they do programming Monday through Friday.
They've got different programs going on. A lot of it's
group work, so they're peers helping other people that are
struggling with mental emotional issues. It's offered it no cost
to the folks. The board funds that, so we were
able to offer that at no cost to anybody who
(27:32):
wants to be involved. So you've got peers helping peers
down there every day. They do have some professional staff
that are also there, yeah, along working alongside them.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
They have a lot on their calendar. They do a
lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
So for the audience, doctor Ashton and I are looking
at the June twenty twenty five calendar, but they do
this every month, so they updake this every month and
again you can go to the link in the episode
description for this. But you know they're they're checking in
every day with folks. They're talking you know, about healthy relationships.
They're talking about writing as a way to tell their story,
(28:08):
as a way to express that. They have the sewing group,
which goes way back to the early days of the
peer support program, where you know, I have seen especially
guys that like have never sewed in their life and
like super against it, but they get sucked in. Trish
and some of the other folks down there are wonderful
of saying, well, you know, try to do a square
(28:29):
and show them how to do a square, and next thing,
you know, they got a quilt. It's amazing. Derek and
some of the folks down there have been doing this
for a long time, but sewing just as a positive
thing that they can create with that and time.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
So they create that stuff and sometimes they sell it.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Cool. There's a lot of the products down there that
they try to again they sell for the purposes of
support in the program. Yeah, they talk about exercise and
budgeting and communicating. They've got a Bible study group. They
talk about some of the things like you know, triggers
and blaming accountry. So it's not just you know, it's
practical stuff. I mean even cooking. But there's plenty of
(29:08):
things that they're involved with.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, I don't think it is really practical. I love that.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
One of the things I like is Fridays they try
to have more of a more relaxing time. So they
might go out to one of the parks. We've got
many parks here in Ashton County. We've talked about that
a lot, so they might do a pic at the park,
they might go to a movie and have a meal,
so just normal stuff. And that's partly what happens a
lot of the folks that are going through the program,
(29:33):
and they don't stay very long. I think the experience
is most people that are in pathways, there's a core
group of folks that are there that are peers to
the new folks that come in. But a new person
will come in for a period of time, get what
you know, the skills they need, the support they need,
and then they'll exit the program, which is that's normal,
that's what we expect. The idea we used to joke
(29:54):
about this, it's not a catch and keep program. We
don't want the program to grow, you know, to hundreds
in hundreds, because that would mean that they're not getting
the skills and moving on with their lives and a
natural kind of support. So I've been really impressed with
Catholic charities working to structure Pathways such that it really
is producing success on a daily basis down there. And
(30:18):
some of the stories that I've heard, and I know
you've heard through some of the reporting that they do
are really inspirational folks that you know, they're developing friendships,
they're get involved with their education and employment, they're just
doing things, making connections that for a lot of them
are lifelong. And these are oftentimes very isolated individuals before
they get involved with Pathways. So our agencies make referrals
(30:41):
all the time, other agencies here in town that you know,
anybody can make a referral to it, so they do
take them from all over. So appreciate deb Berkshire. She's
been the lead on the professional end to supervise and
work with all the other peers to make sure that
the program is running well everybody's say and receiving benefit
(31:03):
by it.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, she does a great job with ye.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
So I will encourage folks. You know, if you know
somebody you yourself might be interested in a peer program.
Pathways is a great program that you might want to
check out, or you can refer a loved one to
at least go in and see, because that's just it,
doctor Ashley. Folks can go down there, check it out,
see what's going on, look at the calendar, attend a
(31:26):
few things. I mean, there's no obligation. I feel like
I'm selling like a sham wow or something great. There
is no obligation if you want to go down and
check out the program, and if you don't like it,
that's fine.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
I would also say, like people with lived experience that
might be interested in becoming a peer supporter, now it's
a great time to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yes it is, thank you for bringing that up. Yes,
or some training, but if you work with Pathways, they
can help guide you through that process, offer support on
the education and the training components. They even have a
nice internet connection down there in a big screen, so
if you want to do some of that stuff remotely,
I think they can make arrangements for that as well.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
So it's great.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
So hopefully audience, you've learned a little bit about the
peer movement that goes all the way back there to
the late seventeen hundreds. It developed over the years. The
sixties seventies really jump started. I think the conversations brought
about some legislations that now has been enacted in most states,
(32:24):
whether it's the PAMMI councilors or the peer supporter process
like we have in Ohio and all of that boom.
We've got peer supporters in all of our agencies. We've
got a peer support program that's active, has been actor
for many years, and I really think is making a difference.
So Ashland County, there you go. You know more about
peer recovery and peer supporters here in the county.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
So peer support pros.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
All right, Well, I will see you next time, doctor Ashley,
and see you audience. Thank you for listening to another
episode of the Keeping National and Healthy podcast. The podcast
is a production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board
of Ashland County, Ohio. You can reach the board by
calling four one nine, two eight one three one three nine.
Please remember that the board funds a local twenty four
(33:07):
seven crisis line through Applese Community Mental Health Center. It
can be reached by calling four one nine two eight
nine sixty one one one. That's four one nine two
eight nine sixty one one one. Until next time, Please
join us in keeping Ashland healthy.
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