July 15, 2025 • 31 mins
On today’s episode of Keeping Ashland Healthy, Dr. Ashley and the Boss recap Ohio’s 2025 Mental Health Conference, discuss two new Mobile Crisis Services in Ashland County (MRSS & Adult Mobile Crisis) and explore the latest in Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal (Maudsley Deprescribing, Laura Delano’s Book, Anders Sorensen’s Work & .css-j9qmi7{display:-webkit-box;display:-webkit-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webkit-flex-direction:row;-ms-flex-direction:row;flex-direction:row;font-weight:700;margin-bottom:1rem;margin-top:2.8rem;width:100%;-webkit-box-pack:start;-ms-flex-pack:start;-webkit-justify-content:start;justify-content:start;padding-left:5rem;}@media only screen and (max-width: 599px){.css-j9qmi7{padding-left:0;-webkit-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webkit-justify-content:center;justify-content:center;}}.css-j9qmi7 svg{fill:#27292D;}.css-j9qmi7 .eagfbvw0{-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;color:#27292D;}
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome. You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy podcast, a
podcast production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of
Ashland County, Ohio. Thanks for joining us, and welcome back
to another episode Keeping Ashland Healthy with Doctor Ashley Ackerman
and the Boss, Friendly Boss David Ross here at the
Mental Health and Recovery Board. That's what I've heard people say.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
People are saying that for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, well, welcome back Doctor Ashley to this episode. We
are going to talk about a recent conference that maybe
some of the audience didn't have an opportunity to attend.
But what I really like about the conference is they
posted all the materials online, so we're going to talk
about that. And then there's two mobile crisis services that
(00:50):
are going to be One is should be available in
Ashland County as we record this, but the other one
is in the planning stages. So these mobile crisis service
as we wanted to talk about, and last but not least,
on today's episode, something we've discussed before, but there's been
some i think new resources put out recently about psychiatric
drug withdrawal that we wanted to highlight for folks, and
(01:14):
so I am excited about this discussion and hopefully what
the audience will gain from it.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So I am too. It's good information.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
But before that, how are you feeling that tragedy? Are
you ready?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I am ready?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Okay. I want to make sure I don't see any
coffee in front of you that worries me.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I know it was too big to bring up here.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well, if you're starting to get a headache, I can
run down there and get that for you.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I can make it all right.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well, the conference, I wanted folks to be aware of
our trade association, which is the Ohio Association of County
Behavioral Health Authorities. We call it a wakpa, yes, or
some people call it that. I don't like those people.
You know, some of my board directors. They add syllables.
And now you.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Told me about my first day on the job. He said,
don't say a wakaba.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Do not say that. That's not what it means. So anyway,
a lakva, our trade association partners with some other state
entities to bring the Mental Health and Addiction Conference and
it's a state wide conference and they really it's a
multi state People come from all over for this. But
the twenty twenty five conference, we went last year for
(02:24):
twenty twenty four, and that was a lot of fun.
But it's not one of those things because it is
a multi day event. We weren't able to go this
year because we've got a lot of things going on vocally.
But what I love about the conference they started posting everything,
the keynotes, all the breakouts. Everything gets posted, and they
post it fairly quickly, and so I wanted the audience
(02:48):
to know if, like me or even if you attended,
you couldn't have attended. There was so much content there
was no way you could have got to everything. So
I just wanted to make sure people knew that they
had posted all the information from the conference in that
we are going to link that in the episode descriptions.
Today's episode description. So we had, you know, several Nicole Adams,
(03:11):
Christy DeVry, Aaron Reed, doctor Kennedy, doctor Tim Fong, Melnda Moore,
all those luncheon keynotes and morning afternoon keynotes. Everything is
going to be posted. I won't run through the list
of all the breakouts, but they're you know, they try
to be cutting edge with what's going on with substance
use and mental health treatment in Ohio. And then more broadly,
(03:32):
so you know, look for that in the episode description.
I just would encourage everyone to take advantage of it.
It's obviously no cost to access at this point.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
It's really cool that they make that available free.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
It's great, and you know, I know some people will say, well, David,
it's not quite the same. No, it's not, of course
quite the same as being there, but I think sometimes
you can still learn quite a bit from from the
handouts and the powerpoints.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And they can spark other thoughts in your own kind
of research. So I like that too.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Well, then that leads us into our next two items.
They're related, but we'll differentiate between the two. The first one,
most folks in the audience will probably hear it described
as m r SS. Yes, but of course, doctor Ashley,
we know in our field acronyms, you know, we have
acronyms for everything, but.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Too many of them, actually many, Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
But MRSS actually stands for Mobile Response and Stabilization Service,
So I can understand why they call it MRSS. That is,
that's a mouthful. It's just like a whackba.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah right, I'm just gonna call it mercus, Mercus mercy, MRSS.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Mobile Response and Stabilization Service. So this is a service
that has been around in other counties, but it's going
to be a new service beginning July one, twenty twenty
five for Ashland County. So we're excited because quite frankly,
we don't know the positive impact it's going to have
the extent of it. I know it will be helpful,
(05:03):
but because it's brand new, we don't know exactly to
what extent it's going to be helpful. So the basic
premise for audience is we understand that, you know, a
crisis can happen at any time anywhere. Mobile Response Stabilization
Service is really focused on youth and family crisis, and
I think it's primarily focused on either the school or
(05:26):
the home environment. We know sometimes that a crisis episode,
if a trained, educated resource team can be deployed, whether
it's a school or home, that they can hopefully de
escalate that situation, provide information, maybe referral information, follow up
information to either the youth or the family, and help
(05:51):
avert that crisis either recurring or escalating even further than
what it is. I think that's the overall big premise.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, I read a little bit about that before.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
What would you read. I'm glad you read that.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, for sure, I thought it was interesting. So the
MRSS team responds within sixty minutes of a call, so they're.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Like a response.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, so that's good, and it's it's in a part
of a crisis that might be kind of escalated. They
can they can kind of step in de escalate that situation,
like you said. Also, they're assessing the strengths and needs
of the family or the child.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I like the strength focus. That's something that we believe
strongly in here.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Absolutely, Yeah, So how can they use their strengths to
get through the situation they're going through and maybe what
resources do they need? Right like that, And it's a
no cost service, right, bio families, that's huge.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So most of the funding comes through Department Medicaid, and
then there's some additional funds that are braided with it
from the Department Mental Health and Addiction Services. And again
you know they changed their name recently.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, is it officially changed now?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, yeah, with the law of the Governor signing Department
and Behavioral Health. Okay, so anyway, but yes, so that
those two are putting up the funds. So, as you said,
doctor Ashley, it's this is a service that'll be at
no cost to the folks that utilize it.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I think that's that's nice.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, what else you get there in your notes?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Those are the most important things.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, No, that's right, that's super important. The idea that
they get there quickly, within an hour, that it's not
going to be a cost, and they can return to
the family. It's not like it's a one and done.
I mean, the idea is short term. It's not intended
to be an ongoing service. But we know that you know,
(07:36):
there could be from the family end, it could be
on the youth end. But you know, tensions, disagreements, things
come up. There's a variety of scenarios I can think
of that would cause some tension, and I think the
audience can think of any whether it's academics or it's relational.
Could be changes in the mom and dad relationship, it
could be a living situation. It could be like I said,
(07:57):
grades and sports and health issues. There's just all manner
things that could lead to you know, stress. And these
MRSS responders, again, these are trained counc social workers, peer
people that would be mobilized to come out and again
provide hopefully perspective that's different. It's kind of some hope
in some tools that would be useful by the youth
(08:21):
and the family to help not only with that immediate crisis,
but the ongoing crisis that we all face as well
go along in life.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah. I like that you said that, like the outside
perspective of that person could be helpful, you know, like
kind of like when couples go to counseling, that third person,
that third perspective can can help kind of mitigate the situation.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Typically, if we're in a crisis, our perspective can become
a little skewed.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
When you're emotional. Definitely, both parties are probably not seeing
clearly hope communicating.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
So hopefully the MRSS folks will bring that more objective
kind of perspective. And you know, one of the things
I know people will ask is how do I get
a hold of these folks? Well, we're being told that
the easiest way is to dial nine eight eight. So
supposedly the nine to eighty eight line will if you
(09:18):
explain the situation that you're looking for MRSS, they will
route you to the team that will then be deployed. Now,
I will say, audience, be a little patience because patient
with us. The board doesn't fund this directly, but it
is something we want to talk about because it will
impact our community and we think a positive way and
(09:39):
potentially a significantly positive way. But it is new, and
I know Appleseed is the agency that's going to be
employing the team members, but I'm not sure there are
one hundred percent staffed and trained. So I know they're
partnering with the MRSS team that's already up and running
in Wayne Holmes Counties. So I don't know exactly who
(10:02):
will be deployed and mobilized when you call ninety eight
if you're in Ashton County, but I know it'll be
maybe some combination of folks working at apple Seed and
or the MRSS folks that are already established in Wayne
and Holmes County. Yeah, so that's great, but I say
be patient. Talk to Jerry Stacy at apple Seed if
(10:23):
you're having any issues with the response after the fact,
because we all want to learn, you know what we
can do better, and you know how it is with
any new program. I'm sure there's going to be some
learnings where we can make improvements. That's just the nature
of these things. The other things that we're excited to
learn is how we can best partner with law enforcement, schools,
(10:43):
children's services. These are some of the other entities that
might be involved depending on the situation with a young
person and family. So how's how's the team going to
partner with them in a coordinated fashion. Let's be honest.
They might try to de escalate the situation, but maybe
it's not a situation that can be dscalated, and maybe
it escalates to the point that, you know, safety is
an issue, and maybe either the team or somebody else
(11:07):
has to get nine to one one, you know, law enforcement,
just to make sure everybody remains safe during the episode.
So there's going to be obviously some overlap I think
with law enforcement, possible overlap with the schools if the
if they're responding to a school, which I guess is
pretty common, and then children's services again, you know that
(11:27):
could be whether they're involved at whatever level. That might
be another organization that I see that will have to
just partner with the team will have to partner with
just to make sure everybody is aware what's going on.
In and communication, communication, communicating, we talk about this all
the time. In our in our our work. How critical
that is for everybody to be on the same page.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, so I'll be interested to see what happens. I
think the intervention early on, hopefully that leads to less
law enforcement involvement with kids and families, hopefully, right, hopefully
less CPS involvement. Although that's creditable, but I think that's
the goal, to intervene and offer resources before they.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Get to the right and absolutely this and this is
for our law enforcement partners that listen to the program. Absolutely,
this is this is intended. You know, those those maybe
calls that you get that are that are low level,
their their their their child parent kind of issues, and
maybe law enforcements getting called out multiple times and it
(12:27):
doesn't seem like things are getting better. Maybe the family's
not seeking after services even if law enforcement provided them
with potential resources. Yeah, this team could be called instead,
hopefully maybe be more persuasive as to why and how
these resources, maybe even attempt to go with them in
some way, be more active and linking and connecting them.
(12:48):
I think that could be a real bonus. So, but
you're right, doctor Ashley. The the overall goal is that, right,
these other entities like law enforcement wouldn't have to keep
returning to the same house and home or school, you know,
with the same typical crisis, if you will, right, Yeah,
Well that is MRSS Mobile Response and Stabilization Service, new
(13:12):
service to the county. We are hopeful that it has
a positive impact. In more information on it in the
episode description. But that leads us into something something else
that the state now this new Department of Behavior Health. Again,
it's going to take take me a while audience to
get used to that because it's been mental health and
(13:33):
Addiction services for about ten years. So before that it
was something else. What is the Department of Behavioral Health?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Department of Behavior Health? Yeah, I got to work on that, right.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
So the other thing that they are promoting now this
is not audience, this is not in effect yet, but
they would like to also have similar to MRSS, MRSS
for adults, if you will, so adult Mobile Crisis of Response.
So this would work I think in a very similar
(14:04):
way where there would be teams to respond quickly, hopefully
within an hour, but the focus would be more on
adult crisis and how can that adult crisis be de
escalated in the community such that maybe the person doesn't
need to go to a hospital level of care or
maybe they do. I mean maybe that's the result of
(14:26):
the evaluation and the assessment and that could be facilitated
as well. But it's the same concept, but just focused
on adults and adults.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, yeah, I think that could be helpful.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
So you know, there's some listening sessions that the state
is scheduling with boards like ours and our crisis partners
like Appleseed, and with peer organizations like Catholic Charities in
the Pathways program. So we'll be attending that here in
the next couple of weeks and learning more. But I
just thought it was important that the audience know that
(14:58):
that's coming. So the MRSS, so that mobile response for
young people has started, but the one for adults is coming.
And again these are both new doctor actually, and you know,
most of the audience knows or if they've heard me
talk in public. You know, we've always had very limited resources.
We love our Levey, We appreciate the voters that have
(15:18):
supported that over the last twenty five years almost but
we still have relatively i would say, meager funding to
invest in behavior health services, and we try the board
does its best to be very prudent and thoughtful and efficient,
but these services are wildly expensive services for the audience.
(15:42):
I think audience members understand what a fire house is
a fire station, right, So basically you've got folks available
living there at the station, ready to respond to fires
if they occur, but they never know when and how
many right to be ready always they're always ready. So
(16:02):
it's the same model for these mrss and adult crisis You
have to have the team, and the team could be
you know, like I said, counselor social workers, case managers.
They have to be ready to respond. They don't know
when the crisis when they're going to be deployed, so
they're not allowed to be doing other things. They're not
(16:22):
allowed to be like in session right talking with somebody
else and then have to drop that say oh got
to go.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, you just got a call, so be available.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
So they have to be available by the standards of
the program, which means they're paid regardless. So as you
can imagine, that's kind of an expensive proposition for whoever
the funder is. So looking forward, we'll see how these
pilots go, because I think that's probably the best way
to view them for us. They're new we're not the
(16:52):
board's not funding them yet, but if they're super successful,
I would think we'd want to continue them. The challenge
then will be come how how can we fund this
over the long term because they are very, very pricey.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, I think definitely funding is a challenge. And also workforce. Yeah,
we've talked a lot about that.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yes, I appreciate you bringing that up, so, audience, we've
talked about this before, but the young people that are
interested in working community behavioral health has kind of dropped.
There's some things being done, i think at the state
and local levels so hopefully make our system more attractive
to younger folks that are graduating or thinking about what
(17:31):
the major in. I don't know if we've been as
successful yet, but the idea is we need more folks
that want to work in and to be honest, a
lot of folks, even if they do want to work
in community behavioral health, don't want to work in crisis.
It takes a special person to do crisis work. You're right, Yeah,
So yeah, I think workforce will be a challenge as
(17:52):
well as the funding aspect. So those are two new
and emerging crisis things that are truly new not only
for the state eight, but for Ashton County specifically. So
I wanted the audience to know about that and excited
about it. But again, questions that we have and we're
always trying to do our due diligence when new services
come to town.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
So it's good information.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Well, last, but not least in terms of our topics.
Doctor Ashley is one that is near and dear to
us psychiatric drug withdrawal. So you know, the concept here
is if you or loved one has been taking psychiatric
medications more or more for any length of time, it's
very very likely that if you or they choose to
(18:37):
come off stop taking that medication. Almost always, Again, I
can't say in every situation or instance, they're probably going
to experience some kind of withdrawal effects. And I like
to use the example because my mother drinks way too
much tea and I drink way too much coffee. But
I'll throw her under the bus because she's so sweet.
(19:01):
When she doesn't drink enough tea, she starts to get
a headache, and that is because she doesn't have enough
caffeine in her system that her body needs to quote
unquote feel normal. So part of withdrawal. She's basically doesn't
have enough caffeine. That's a side effect for her. That's
a drug effect of being caffeine low.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
A stage intervention with we may have to.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
So with psychiatric drugs. Like I said, if individual has
been on one or more for any length of time,
the body does become accustomed to having these drugs in
the system and functioning with them. So if the person
makes a decision to tape her off, to come off,
it is not unusual at all for the body then
to experience these withdraw these drug withdrawal effects. Now, the research,
(19:53):
the materials, the education on this whole process and what
to expect and how to tape her off has been really,
really scant. There has been very little done until just recently.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It's emerging.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
It is emerging. So that's why we want to bring
this to the audience attention. Again, don't worry about writing
this all down. If you're listening to the car or
we will put these links in the episode description. We
want you to be aware of four specific resources that
have emerged now to help all of us, whether your
individual family member understand better. I mean, this goes for
(20:29):
psychiatrists prescribers as well. The Maudsley Deep Prescribing Guidelines. This
is something that came out from England. It is technical
but still I think readable for a lay audience. It
just basically helps give guidance on how to come off.
So the idea of just cutting by fifty percent one week,
(20:51):
cutting it by another fifty percent the next week, et cetera,
that doesn't work for everybody. In fact, it doesn't work
for a lot of people. So the idea of hyperbolic
tapering or gradual tapering. So the deep Perscribing Guidelines talk
about that because it depends on the person, depends on
the medications, the drugs, it depends on how many, how long.
There's a lot of considerations.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
For this, and that form of tapering is tailored. Yes,
So I think that's what kind of makes it different
than just having each week like week, like you're saying,
that's kind of traditional, but this would be tailored based on,
you know, how the person is reacting to the tapering, what.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
They need exactly yea. And the other thing is as
you as you taper to lower lower dose is there's
not necessarily a pill or you know, a form of it.
So there's some some guidance in there about well, you know,
where do I find you know, two milligrams of this
thing that's not sold in anything less than ten right,
So you know that can get challenging. That's why we
(21:48):
need the professionals, the pharmacies, and the prescribers on the
same page with this. So whether that's compounding, but there's
various ways that they can approach it to help the
person get that that smaller dose that's a tip sold.
So there's a lot in that. So that's the maus
lady prescribing guidelines. And then an old friend of mine,
Laura Delano, this is a book that in some ways
(22:10):
she's been writing said she was a teenager, and I
became aware Laura when she started to blog on the
mat America site many many years ago. I mean it's
got to be over ten years ago. And Laura had
talked a little bit about her journey of you know,
just being diagnosed, and her journey of different and various
(22:31):
treatments over the years, how she did with those, how
how she didn't do well with a lot of them,
her experiences with medications, and then her experiences when she
made the decision to come off. So all of that
is really captured well in her new book Unshrunk, A
Story of Psychiatric Treatment Resistance. Laura is a powerful advocate
(22:52):
now helping other people do what she did, which was
basically come off psychiatric medications. And I think it's a
hopeful story, but she doesn't pull any punches. So I
just want folks to know before they buy it. I mean,
it can be raw, it could be very honest, unlike
or like another person we're going to talk about. And
(23:14):
I've noticed that these these folks are they're they're advocates.
They're passionate advocates because it happened to them, and they
just they really come at this. They don't want other
people to be I don't know, unsupported or not feeling
like there's anybody Because when Laura and Brook, who will
talk about later, they didn't feel like there was a
(23:35):
lot of support, a lot of guidance, a lot of information,
Like they felt like they were on their own and
doing this big thing. And it's like, well, how is
that possible that I should be on my own doing
this big thing? And why wasn't there more support or
education or information to help me do this?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, One of the most important things I think regarding
all of these resources is that they provide more informed content.
So if someone's deciding to go on medication, they should
know about the process to come off. They should know
about the potential from the very beginning to make that decision.
You should be aware of those things, and I don't
(24:10):
think that people are very often.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, so well, similar to the Mansley do you prescribe
in guidelines? Uh? Andres Sowordsen he has a new book
out called Crossing Zero, The Art and Science of Coming
Off and Staying Off Psychiatric drug So Andrew's work. I
think it's just a more readable, easier to understand perhaps
(24:32):
a book, but it's it's in the same realm of
the Maudsley book. Andrews. I've seen some of his his
interviews and some of his substacks, some of his pieces
that he writes. I do think he's more approachable. Maybe
he's a young person himself. Actually. Uh. But again, his
new book, we'll we'll link to that, Crossing Zero, Uh
(24:55):
talks again how do how do we do this? And
I'm excited even though even the it's similar to mods,
like the fact is we didn't have any of these
a few years ago, so I want more. It's okay
to have multiple books on the same basic topic. I'm
perfectly happy since we had zero for so many years.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Maudley was literally the last year.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Yeah, I mean, so, yeah, that's true. These are all
new so.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And I just wanted to say about Sworns, and I
think what kind of set that apart? I haven't read
it just to preface this, but I think what sounds
interesting is that it addresses life after medication. So I
read online it's not just about stopping drugs, it's about
what comes next. The concept includes the challenges and opportunities
of rebuilding identity, relationships, and coping strategies without the influence
(25:42):
of psychiatric medication. And that's kind of like that next
step moving into that, which is interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
No, it is. And you just said something, So, I mean,
this is a question I've heard. You know, who am
I off these medications? Right?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
You start taking mends at thirteen? Your identity is built
around being.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
On correct yea, yeah, who who am I? And these
are big questions, you know, and how you experience life
now off medications in relationships, there's just big things. And
our last mention here Brooke Seem, who was our keynote
this past year at our R s v P. She's
(26:20):
again really active in this space. She's trying to figure
out you know, she sees a lot of lost years
when she was on the medications because she didn't experience
some of those key moments in life where she experienced
them maybe differently than she would if she wouldn't have
been on medication. So she's trying to recover and go forward.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
In some ways, there's a sense of loss surrounding, like
what she didn't have and what she missed out on
I think in experiencing life the way she did.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, so so Brooks Seem. I'm also going to link
to her blog because she's doing some ongoing I think
good work, very similar to these other folks. Her book,
you know we've talked about before, May Cause Side Effects,
which is a wonderful book. It's that's still available and
that'll be in the episode description. But so the Maudsley, Lord, Delano, Anders,
(27:09):
and Brooke, I mean four incredible resources that literally Doctor
Ashley weren't even around, you know, just a couple of
years ago.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, I'm excited to see how this takes off. I
hope that I hope that this keeps growing, this movement.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
So I think so, you know, audience is aware obviously
of some of the settlements with Purdue Pharmaceuticals around some
of the medications that were being oxy some of the
other painkiller medications that were being prescribed but marketed in
ways that weren't honest or accurate or scientificate. So I
(27:44):
think there's going to be some I think there's more
of awareness by the general public that they need to
be a bit more careful, cautious, ask more questions, regardless
of it whether it's a painkiller or medication that changes
the way the brain works.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah. Well, and I don't think that people are always
aware that they can't ask questions and that it's okay
to say, you know, I need to know more about
that before I take it. You know. So this is
an important topic.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And I love what you said, doctor Ashley about you know,
from from the very beginning, listen to what doctor Ashley
is saying. I agree with her one hundred percent. If
you are a love owner, are considering beginning one or
more psychiatric medications, you need to ask from that from
the beginning, you know, what would what's the potential side
effects certainly of taking them, but what are though, what's
(28:30):
the process? What should you expect once you get off
of them? From the very beginning, you really need to
be thinking about side effects while taking but also side
effects in the process for tapering.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Right, how long am I thinking I'm going to be
on this person? How long does a doctor think that
is appropriate for that? You know, to be talked through?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I think you know from the beginning, and that's one
of the things we're going to continue to stress that
because you just can't. We need to make that a
norm that both the people seeking treatment ask for that
expect that, but also that you know, the prescribers share
that absolutely, so they make the context that interaction. Just
(29:16):
make that a normal part of the process, not something extra.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
It should be.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Well program note, Doctor Ashley, as we're winding up a show,
I should let the audience know that this is in
fact your last episode.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
It is my last episode. Well, unless you have them
be back as a.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Guest or that's true, I could have you back, as
I guess, but the reason this is doctor Ashley's she
if it's okay to share, absolutely, Doctor Ashley is going
to be teaching Malone College, Malone University, Malone University.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Sorry, yeah, I'll be teaching in the psychology undergrad program
and the Counseling Master's program at Malone full time.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
I know. So that is going to be awesome for
all you students that are going are thinking about going. Uh, yes,
you want to you want to be taught by the
Doctor Ashley. So we're looking forward to this next adventure
for you. I think you're going to be wonderful. And
you know, of course we're going to miss you on
the Doctor Ashley and the Boss podcast, which will probably
have to change his name.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Probably just the Boss. What's we got to think.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Of a guy? I have to think of something.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, that's with the Boss. If you have you have
any ideas, send them. Yes, I'm going to miss doing
the podcast with you, and I think all of the
listeners for your support and.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yes, uh and I think I will hear about this.
I already have from a lot of people that have
found out that you're you're moving on. They really appreciate
and they're going to miss you. And I can say
that's true for me as well. But so we don't
both teer up because you know, we can't do that.
We are counselors. We will end this episode, but thank
you doctor Ashley for all your efforts on the Keeping
National Healthy podcast, but also for for all your work
(30:54):
you've done in Nashal County.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And thank you so much too.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Thank you for listening to another episode of the Keeping
Ashland Healthy podcast. The podcast is a production of the
Mental Health and Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio. You
can reach the Board by calling four one nine two
eight one three one three nine. Please remember that the
Board funds a local twenty four to seven crisis line
through Applesea Community Mental Health Center. It can be reached
by calling four one nine two eight nine sixty one
(31:21):
one one. That's four one nine two eight nine sixty
one one one. Until next time, Please join us in
Keeping Ashland Healthy.
Welcome. You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy podcast, a
podcast production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of
Ashland County, Ohio. Thanks for joining us, and welcome back
to another episode Keeping Ashland Healthy with Doctor Ashley Ackerman
and the Boss, Friendly Boss David Ross here at the
Mental Health and Recovery Board. That's what I've heard people say.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
People are saying that for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, well, welcome back Doctor Ashley to this episode. We
are going to talk about a recent conference that maybe
some of the audience didn't have an opportunity to attend.
But what I really like about the conference is they
posted all the materials online, so we're going to talk
about that. And then there's two mobile crisis services that
(00:50):
are going to be One is should be available in
Ashland County as we record this, but the other one
is in the planning stages. So these mobile crisis service
as we wanted to talk about, and last but not least,
on today's episode, something we've discussed before, but there's been
some i think new resources put out recently about psychiatric
drug withdrawal that we wanted to highlight for folks, and
(01:14):
so I am excited about this discussion and hopefully what
the audience will gain from it.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So I am too. It's good information.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
But before that, how are you feeling that tragedy? Are
you ready?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I am ready?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Okay. I want to make sure I don't see any
coffee in front of you that worries me.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I know it was too big to bring up here.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well, if you're starting to get a headache, I can
run down there and get that for you.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I can make it all right.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well, the conference, I wanted folks to be aware of
our trade association, which is the Ohio Association of County
Behavioral Health Authorities. We call it a wakpa, yes, or
some people call it that. I don't like those people.
You know, some of my board directors. They add syllables.
And now you.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Told me about my first day on the job. He said,
don't say a wakaba.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Do not say that. That's not what it means. So anyway,
a lakva, our trade association partners with some other state
entities to bring the Mental Health and Addiction Conference and
it's a state wide conference and they really it's a
multi state People come from all over for this. But
the twenty twenty five conference, we went last year for
(02:24):
twenty twenty four, and that was a lot of fun.
But it's not one of those things because it is
a multi day event. We weren't able to go this
year because we've got a lot of things going on vocally.
But what I love about the conference they started posting everything,
the keynotes, all the breakouts. Everything gets posted, and they
post it fairly quickly, and so I wanted the audience
(02:48):
to know if, like me or even if you attended,
you couldn't have attended. There was so much content there
was no way you could have got to everything. So
I just wanted to make sure people knew that they
had posted all the information from the conference in that
we are going to link that in the episode descriptions.
Today's episode description. So we had, you know, several Nicole Adams,
(03:11):
Christy DeVry, Aaron Reed, doctor Kennedy, doctor Tim Fong, Melnda Moore,
all those luncheon keynotes and morning afternoon keynotes. Everything is
going to be posted. I won't run through the list
of all the breakouts, but they're you know, they try
to be cutting edge with what's going on with substance
use and mental health treatment in Ohio. And then more broadly,
(03:32):
so you know, look for that in the episode description.
I just would encourage everyone to take advantage of it.
It's obviously no cost to access at this point.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
It's really cool that they make that available free.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
It's great, and you know, I know some people will say, well, David,
it's not quite the same. No, it's not, of course
quite the same as being there, but I think sometimes
you can still learn quite a bit from from the
handouts and the powerpoints.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And they can spark other thoughts in your own kind
of research. So I like that too.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Well, then that leads us into our next two items.
They're related, but we'll differentiate between the two. The first one,
most folks in the audience will probably hear it described
as m r SS. Yes, but of course, doctor Ashley,
we know in our field acronyms, you know, we have
acronyms for everything, but.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Too many of them, actually many, Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
But MRSS actually stands for Mobile Response and Stabilization Service,
So I can understand why they call it MRSS. That is,
that's a mouthful. It's just like a whackba.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah right, I'm just gonna call it mercus, Mercus mercy, MRSS.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Mobile Response and Stabilization Service. So this is a service
that has been around in other counties, but it's going
to be a new service beginning July one, twenty twenty
five for Ashland County. So we're excited because quite frankly,
we don't know the positive impact it's going to have
the extent of it. I know it will be helpful,
(05:03):
but because it's brand new, we don't know exactly to
what extent it's going to be helpful. So the basic
premise for audience is we understand that, you know, a
crisis can happen at any time anywhere. Mobile Response Stabilization
Service is really focused on youth and family crisis, and
I think it's primarily focused on either the school or
(05:26):
the home environment. We know sometimes that a crisis episode,
if a trained, educated resource team can be deployed, whether
it's a school or home, that they can hopefully de
escalate that situation, provide information, maybe referral information, follow up
information to either the youth or the family, and help
(05:51):
avert that crisis either recurring or escalating even further than
what it is. I think that's the overall big premise.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, I read a little bit about that before.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
What would you read. I'm glad you read that.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, for sure, I thought it was interesting. So the
MRSS team responds within sixty minutes of a call, so they're.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Like a response.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, so that's good, and it's it's in a part
of a crisis that might be kind of escalated. They
can they can kind of step in de escalate that situation,
like you said. Also, they're assessing the strengths and needs
of the family or the child.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I like the strength focus. That's something that we believe
strongly in here.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Absolutely, Yeah, So how can they use their strengths to
get through the situation they're going through and maybe what
resources do they need? Right like that, And it's a
no cost service, right, bio families, that's huge.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So most of the funding comes through Department Medicaid, and
then there's some additional funds that are braided with it
from the Department Mental Health and Addiction Services. And again
you know they changed their name recently.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, is it officially changed now?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, yeah, with the law of the Governor signing Department
and Behavioral Health. Okay, so anyway, but yes, so that
those two are putting up the funds. So, as you said,
doctor Ashley, it's this is a service that'll be at
no cost to the folks that utilize it.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I think that's that's nice.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, what else you get there in your notes?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Those are the most important things.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, No, that's right, that's super important. The idea that
they get there quickly, within an hour, that it's not
going to be a cost, and they can return to
the family. It's not like it's a one and done.
I mean, the idea is short term. It's not intended
to be an ongoing service. But we know that you know,
(07:36):
there could be from the family end, it could be
on the youth end. But you know, tensions, disagreements, things
come up. There's a variety of scenarios I can think
of that would cause some tension, and I think the
audience can think of any whether it's academics or it's relational.
Could be changes in the mom and dad relationship, it
could be a living situation. It could be like I said,
(07:57):
grades and sports and health issues. There's just all manner
things that could lead to you know, stress. And these
MRSS responders, again, these are trained counc social workers, peer
people that would be mobilized to come out and again
provide hopefully perspective that's different. It's kind of some hope
in some tools that would be useful by the youth
(08:21):
and the family to help not only with that immediate crisis,
but the ongoing crisis that we all face as well
go along in life.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah. I like that you said that, like the outside
perspective of that person could be helpful, you know, like
kind of like when couples go to counseling, that third person,
that third perspective can can help kind of mitigate the situation.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Typically, if we're in a crisis, our perspective can become
a little skewed.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
When you're emotional. Definitely, both parties are probably not seeing
clearly hope communicating.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
So hopefully the MRSS folks will bring that more objective
kind of perspective. And you know, one of the things
I know people will ask is how do I get
a hold of these folks? Well, we're being told that
the easiest way is to dial nine eight eight. So
supposedly the nine to eighty eight line will if you
(09:18):
explain the situation that you're looking for MRSS, they will
route you to the team that will then be deployed. Now,
I will say, audience, be a little patience because patient
with us. The board doesn't fund this directly, but it
is something we want to talk about because it will
impact our community and we think a positive way and
(09:39):
potentially a significantly positive way. But it is new, and
I know Appleseed is the agency that's going to be
employing the team members, but I'm not sure there are
one hundred percent staffed and trained. So I know they're
partnering with the MRSS team that's already up and running
in Wayne Holmes Counties. So I don't know exactly who
(10:02):
will be deployed and mobilized when you call ninety eight
if you're in Ashton County, but I know it'll be
maybe some combination of folks working at apple Seed and
or the MRSS folks that are already established in Wayne
and Holmes County. Yeah, so that's great, but I say
be patient. Talk to Jerry Stacy at apple Seed if
(10:23):
you're having any issues with the response after the fact,
because we all want to learn, you know what we
can do better, and you know how it is with
any new program. I'm sure there's going to be some
learnings where we can make improvements. That's just the nature
of these things. The other things that we're excited to
learn is how we can best partner with law enforcement, schools,
(10:43):
children's services. These are some of the other entities that
might be involved depending on the situation with a young
person and family. So how's how's the team going to
partner with them in a coordinated fashion. Let's be honest.
They might try to de escalate the situation, but maybe
it's not a situation that can be dscalated, and maybe
it escalates to the point that, you know, safety is
an issue, and maybe either the team or somebody else
(11:07):
has to get nine to one one, you know, law enforcement,
just to make sure everybody remains safe during the episode.
So there's going to be obviously some overlap I think
with law enforcement, possible overlap with the schools if the
if they're responding to a school, which I guess is
pretty common, and then children's services again, you know that
(11:27):
could be whether they're involved at whatever level. That might
be another organization that I see that will have to
just partner with the team will have to partner with
just to make sure everybody is aware what's going on.
In and communication, communication, communicating, we talk about this all
the time. In our in our our work. How critical
that is for everybody to be on the same page.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, so I'll be interested to see what happens. I
think the intervention early on, hopefully that leads to less
law enforcement involvement with kids and families, hopefully, right, hopefully
less CPS involvement. Although that's creditable, but I think that's
the goal, to intervene and offer resources before they.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Get to the right and absolutely this and this is
for our law enforcement partners that listen to the program. Absolutely,
this is this is intended. You know, those those maybe
calls that you get that are that are low level,
their their their their child parent kind of issues, and
maybe law enforcements getting called out multiple times and it
(12:27):
doesn't seem like things are getting better. Maybe the family's
not seeking after services even if law enforcement provided them
with potential resources. Yeah, this team could be called instead,
hopefully maybe be more persuasive as to why and how
these resources, maybe even attempt to go with them in
some way, be more active and linking and connecting them.
(12:48):
I think that could be a real bonus. So, but
you're right, doctor Ashley. The the overall goal is that, right,
these other entities like law enforcement wouldn't have to keep
returning to the same house and home or school, you know,
with the same typical crisis, if you will, right, Yeah,
Well that is MRSS Mobile Response and Stabilization Service, new
(13:12):
service to the county. We are hopeful that it has
a positive impact. In more information on it in the
episode description. But that leads us into something something else
that the state now this new Department of Behavior Health. Again,
it's going to take take me a while audience to
get used to that because it's been mental health and
(13:33):
Addiction services for about ten years. So before that it
was something else. What is the Department of Behavioral Health?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Department of Behavior Health? Yeah, I got to work on that, right.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
So the other thing that they are promoting now this
is not audience, this is not in effect yet, but
they would like to also have similar to MRSS, MRSS
for adults, if you will, so adult Mobile Crisis of Response.
So this would work I think in a very similar
(14:04):
way where there would be teams to respond quickly, hopefully
within an hour, but the focus would be more on
adult crisis and how can that adult crisis be de
escalated in the community such that maybe the person doesn't
need to go to a hospital level of care or
maybe they do. I mean maybe that's the result of
(14:26):
the evaluation and the assessment and that could be facilitated
as well. But it's the same concept, but just focused
on adults and adults.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, yeah, I think that could be helpful.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
So you know, there's some listening sessions that the state
is scheduling with boards like ours and our crisis partners
like Appleseed, and with peer organizations like Catholic Charities in
the Pathways program. So we'll be attending that here in
the next couple of weeks and learning more. But I
just thought it was important that the audience know that
(14:58):
that's coming. So the MRSS, so that mobile response for
young people has started, but the one for adults is coming.
And again these are both new doctor actually, and you know,
most of the audience knows or if they've heard me
talk in public. You know, we've always had very limited resources.
We love our Levey, We appreciate the voters that have
(15:18):
supported that over the last twenty five years almost but
we still have relatively i would say, meager funding to
invest in behavior health services, and we try the board
does its best to be very prudent and thoughtful and efficient,
but these services are wildly expensive services for the audience.
(15:42):
I think audience members understand what a fire house is
a fire station, right, So basically you've got folks available
living there at the station, ready to respond to fires
if they occur, but they never know when and how
many right to be ready always they're always ready. So
(16:02):
it's the same model for these mrss and adult crisis You
have to have the team, and the team could be
you know, like I said, counselor social workers, case managers.
They have to be ready to respond. They don't know
when the crisis when they're going to be deployed, so
they're not allowed to be doing other things. They're not
(16:22):
allowed to be like in session right talking with somebody
else and then have to drop that say oh got
to go.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, you just got a call, so be available.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
So they have to be available by the standards of
the program, which means they're paid regardless. So as you
can imagine, that's kind of an expensive proposition for whoever
the funder is. So looking forward, we'll see how these
pilots go, because I think that's probably the best way
to view them for us. They're new we're not the
(16:52):
board's not funding them yet, but if they're super successful,
I would think we'd want to continue them. The challenge
then will be come how how can we fund this
over the long term because they are very, very pricey.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, I think definitely funding is a challenge. And also workforce. Yeah,
we've talked a lot about that.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yes, I appreciate you bringing that up, so, audience, we've
talked about this before, but the young people that are
interested in working community behavioral health has kind of dropped.
There's some things being done, i think at the state
and local levels so hopefully make our system more attractive
to younger folks that are graduating or thinking about what
(17:31):
the major in. I don't know if we've been as
successful yet, but the idea is we need more folks
that want to work in and to be honest, a
lot of folks, even if they do want to work
in community behavioral health, don't want to work in crisis.
It takes a special person to do crisis work. You're right, Yeah,
So yeah, I think workforce will be a challenge as
(17:52):
well as the funding aspect. So those are two new
and emerging crisis things that are truly new not only
for the state eight, but for Ashton County specifically. So
I wanted the audience to know about that and excited
about it. But again, questions that we have and we're
always trying to do our due diligence when new services
come to town.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
So it's good information.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Well, last, but not least in terms of our topics.
Doctor Ashley is one that is near and dear to
us psychiatric drug withdrawal. So you know, the concept here
is if you or loved one has been taking psychiatric
medications more or more for any length of time, it's
very very likely that if you or they choose to
(18:37):
come off stop taking that medication. Almost always, Again, I
can't say in every situation or instance, they're probably going
to experience some kind of withdrawal effects. And I like
to use the example because my mother drinks way too
much tea and I drink way too much coffee. But
I'll throw her under the bus because she's so sweet.
(19:01):
When she doesn't drink enough tea, she starts to get
a headache, and that is because she doesn't have enough
caffeine in her system that her body needs to quote
unquote feel normal. So part of withdrawal. She's basically doesn't
have enough caffeine. That's a side effect for her. That's
a drug effect of being caffeine low.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
A stage intervention with we may have to.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
So with psychiatric drugs. Like I said, if individual has
been on one or more for any length of time,
the body does become accustomed to having these drugs in
the system and functioning with them. So if the person
makes a decision to tape her off, to come off,
it is not unusual at all for the body then
to experience these withdraw these drug withdrawal effects. Now, the research,
(19:53):
the materials, the education on this whole process and what
to expect and how to tape her off has been really,
really scant. There has been very little done until just recently.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It's emerging.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
It is emerging. So that's why we want to bring
this to the audience attention. Again, don't worry about writing
this all down. If you're listening to the car or
we will put these links in the episode description. We
want you to be aware of four specific resources that
have emerged now to help all of us, whether your
individual family member understand better. I mean, this goes for
(20:29):
psychiatrists prescribers as well. The Maudsley Deep Prescribing Guidelines. This
is something that came out from England. It is technical
but still I think readable for a lay audience. It
just basically helps give guidance on how to come off.
So the idea of just cutting by fifty percent one week,
(20:51):
cutting it by another fifty percent the next week, et cetera,
that doesn't work for everybody. In fact, it doesn't work
for a lot of people. So the idea of hyperbolic
tapering or gradual tapering. So the deep Perscribing Guidelines talk
about that because it depends on the person, depends on
the medications, the drugs, it depends on how many, how long.
There's a lot of considerations.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
For this, and that form of tapering is tailored. Yes,
So I think that's what kind of makes it different
than just having each week like week, like you're saying,
that's kind of traditional, but this would be tailored based on,
you know, how the person is reacting to the tapering, what.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
They need exactly yea. And the other thing is as
you as you taper to lower lower dose is there's
not necessarily a pill or you know, a form of it.
So there's some some guidance in there about well, you know,
where do I find you know, two milligrams of this
thing that's not sold in anything less than ten right,
So you know that can get challenging. That's why we
(21:48):
need the professionals, the pharmacies, and the prescribers on the
same page with this. So whether that's compounding, but there's
various ways that they can approach it to help the
person get that that smaller dose that's a tip sold.
So there's a lot in that. So that's the maus
lady prescribing guidelines. And then an old friend of mine,
Laura Delano, this is a book that in some ways
(22:10):
she's been writing said she was a teenager, and I
became aware Laura when she started to blog on the
mat America site many many years ago. I mean it's
got to be over ten years ago. And Laura had
talked a little bit about her journey of you know,
just being diagnosed, and her journey of different and various
(22:31):
treatments over the years, how she did with those, how
how she didn't do well with a lot of them,
her experiences with medications, and then her experiences when she
made the decision to come off. So all of that
is really captured well in her new book Unshrunk, A
Story of Psychiatric Treatment Resistance. Laura is a powerful advocate
(22:52):
now helping other people do what she did, which was
basically come off psychiatric medications. And I think it's a
hopeful story, but she doesn't pull any punches. So I
just want folks to know before they buy it. I mean,
it can be raw, it could be very honest, unlike
or like another person we're going to talk about. And
(23:14):
I've noticed that these these folks are they're they're advocates.
They're passionate advocates because it happened to them, and they
just they really come at this. They don't want other
people to be I don't know, unsupported or not feeling
like there's anybody Because when Laura and Brook, who will
talk about later, they didn't feel like there was a
(23:35):
lot of support, a lot of guidance, a lot of information,
Like they felt like they were on their own and
doing this big thing. And it's like, well, how is
that possible that I should be on my own doing
this big thing? And why wasn't there more support or
education or information to help me do this?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, One of the most important things I think regarding
all of these resources is that they provide more informed content.
So if someone's deciding to go on medication, they should
know about the process to come off. They should know
about the potential from the very beginning to make that decision.
You should be aware of those things, and I don't
(24:10):
think that people are very often.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, so well, similar to the Mansley do you prescribe
in guidelines? Uh? Andres Sowordsen he has a new book
out called Crossing Zero, The Art and Science of Coming
Off and Staying Off Psychiatric drug So Andrew's work. I
think it's just a more readable, easier to understand perhaps
(24:32):
a book, but it's it's in the same realm of
the Maudsley book. Andrews. I've seen some of his his
interviews and some of his substacks, some of his pieces
that he writes. I do think he's more approachable. Maybe
he's a young person himself. Actually. Uh. But again, his
new book, we'll we'll link to that, Crossing Zero, Uh
(24:55):
talks again how do how do we do this? And
I'm excited even though even the it's similar to mods,
like the fact is we didn't have any of these
a few years ago, so I want more. It's okay
to have multiple books on the same basic topic. I'm
perfectly happy since we had zero for so many years.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Maudley was literally the last year.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Yeah, I mean, so, yeah, that's true. These are all
new so.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And I just wanted to say about Sworns, and I
think what kind of set that apart? I haven't read
it just to preface this, but I think what sounds
interesting is that it addresses life after medication. So I
read online it's not just about stopping drugs, it's about
what comes next. The concept includes the challenges and opportunities
of rebuilding identity, relationships, and coping strategies without the influence
(25:42):
of psychiatric medication. And that's kind of like that next
step moving into that, which is interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
No, it is. And you just said something, So, I mean,
this is a question I've heard. You know, who am
I off these medications? Right?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
You start taking mends at thirteen? Your identity is built
around being.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
On correct yea, yeah, who who am I? And these
are big questions, you know, and how you experience life
now off medications in relationships, there's just big things. And
our last mention here Brooke Seem, who was our keynote
this past year at our R s v P. She's
(26:20):
again really active in this space. She's trying to figure
out you know, she sees a lot of lost years
when she was on the medications because she didn't experience
some of those key moments in life where she experienced
them maybe differently than she would if she wouldn't have
been on medication. So she's trying to recover and go forward.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
In some ways, there's a sense of loss surrounding, like
what she didn't have and what she missed out on
I think in experiencing life the way she did.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, so so Brooks Seem. I'm also going to link
to her blog because she's doing some ongoing I think
good work, very similar to these other folks. Her book,
you know we've talked about before, May Cause Side Effects,
which is a wonderful book. It's that's still available and
that'll be in the episode description. But so the Maudsley, Lord, Delano, Anders,
(27:09):
and Brooke, I mean four incredible resources that literally Doctor
Ashley weren't even around, you know, just a couple of
years ago.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, I'm excited to see how this takes off. I
hope that I hope that this keeps growing, this movement.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
So I think so, you know, audience is aware obviously
of some of the settlements with Purdue Pharmaceuticals around some
of the medications that were being oxy some of the
other painkiller medications that were being prescribed but marketed in
ways that weren't honest or accurate or scientificate. So I
(27:44):
think there's going to be some I think there's more
of awareness by the general public that they need to
be a bit more careful, cautious, ask more questions, regardless
of it whether it's a painkiller or medication that changes
the way the brain works.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah. Well, and I don't think that people are always
aware that they can't ask questions and that it's okay
to say, you know, I need to know more about
that before I take it. You know. So this is
an important topic.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And I love what you said, doctor Ashley about you know,
from from the very beginning, listen to what doctor Ashley
is saying. I agree with her one hundred percent. If
you are a love owner, are considering beginning one or
more psychiatric medications, you need to ask from that from
the beginning, you know, what would what's the potential side
effects certainly of taking them, but what are though, what's
(28:30):
the process? What should you expect once you get off
of them? From the very beginning, you really need to
be thinking about side effects while taking but also side
effects in the process for tapering.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Right, how long am I thinking I'm going to be
on this person? How long does a doctor think that
is appropriate for that? You know, to be talked through?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I think you know from the beginning, and that's one
of the things we're going to continue to stress that
because you just can't. We need to make that a
norm that both the people seeking treatment ask for that
expect that, but also that you know, the prescribers share
that absolutely, so they make the context that interaction. Just
(29:16):
make that a normal part of the process, not something extra.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
It should be.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Well program note, Doctor Ashley, as we're winding up a show,
I should let the audience know that this is in
fact your last episode.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
It is my last episode. Well, unless you have them
be back as a.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Guest or that's true, I could have you back, as
I guess, but the reason this is doctor Ashley's she
if it's okay to share, absolutely, Doctor Ashley is going
to be teaching Malone College, Malone University, Malone University.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Sorry, yeah, I'll be teaching in the psychology undergrad program
and the Counseling Master's program at Malone full time.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
I know. So that is going to be awesome for
all you students that are going are thinking about going. Uh, yes,
you want to you want to be taught by the
Doctor Ashley. So we're looking forward to this next adventure
for you. I think you're going to be wonderful. And
you know, of course we're going to miss you on
the Doctor Ashley and the Boss podcast, which will probably
have to change his name.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Probably just the Boss. What's we got to think.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Of a guy? I have to think of something.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, that's with the Boss. If you have you have
any ideas, send them. Yes, I'm going to miss doing
the podcast with you, and I think all of the
listeners for your support and.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yes, uh and I think I will hear about this.
I already have from a lot of people that have
found out that you're you're moving on. They really appreciate
and they're going to miss you. And I can say
that's true for me as well. But so we don't
both teer up because you know, we can't do that.
We are counselors. We will end this episode, but thank
you doctor Ashley for all your efforts on the Keeping
National Healthy podcast, but also for for all your work
(30:54):
you've done in Nashal County.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And thank you so much too.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Thank you for listening to another episode of the Keeping
Ashland Healthy podcast. The podcast is a production of the
Mental Health and Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio. You
can reach the Board by calling four one nine two
eight one three one three nine. Please remember that the
Board funds a local twenty four to seven crisis line
through Applesea Community Mental Health Center. It can be reached
by calling four one nine two eight nine sixty one
(31:21):
one one. That's four one nine two eight nine sixty
one one one. Until next time, Please join us in
Keeping Ashland Healthy.
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