December 1, 2022 • 34 mins
In this very special episode, Sammy Jaye sits down with her close friend and actress Navia Robinson. They have a very candid and long overdo catch-up about their friendship, growing up in the spotlight, the impact of social media, her new show Gotham Nights and so much more!
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to the Less Bureau Podcast.
I'm so excited because my dear friend Navia Robinson is here. Guys,
I'm so excited to be here, my dear friend Sammy
here obviously because it's your podcast. Really, this has been
so long overdue. Yes, it totally has. We've been talking
about this for ages, and I'm so glad to finally
(00:22):
be here. I was thinking about it and I met
you in that sounds correct, And at that time I
had just come back from the UK and I was
filming a show and I am pretty certain I was
speaking to you. And what was a British? Were British?
I was convince she was British. Guys. We were all like,
I was my first big shoe and I worked with
three Dio Disney and it was at the Sacks fifth Avenue,
(00:45):
like rand opening, and I met Navia because we were
we were the only kids there, yes, that were like interviewing,
and then she was like British and my mom was
there and my brother is there, and I remember us
leaping be like what was her accent? Is she British?
So funny to me. I remember quite a few things
from that night. Well, first of all, I want to say,
I don't understand why I was talking in a British
(01:05):
accent because I played an American character on that show.
But I was also at a very impressionable age, and
so I guess I just soaked up that accent. I
probably liked it a lot, because you know, I was
like loving it. Doesn't love a British accent, beautiful accent.
And I'm sure my castmates were like this, go on, Um,
I was there for three months, okay, but an impressionable age, Yes, exactly,
(01:28):
thank you so much. I'm helping you, trying to help me. Yeah.
We also saw we bonded over seeing Neil Patrick. We
were like, we're freaking out because yes, I just remember
bonding over. I mean already. It was quite a strange
circumstance because it's a very novel experience. We were at
Sax Fifth Avenue working there for like the window unveiling.
It was special and we were still they shut it
(01:50):
down the store that day, and we were so young
and it was so overwhelming and surrounded by adults too.
Of course, I was so scared because here you were,
you know, you're you're an actress. You've been on TV.
I this was coming up on my since my first
real year like working with them, and I hadn't done
anything like that before. You must have made quite the impression.
(02:12):
This is you're one, you're two. If this was your
year one, yeah, wow, and you're already that's incredible. I
was just like, I still have stage fright in a way,
and particularly at that age. I think when I started,
I was like five or six years old, so I
had no fears and no insecurities. Yeah, you don't think
about it. And then at eleven and then probably until
(02:35):
like fifteen, I was just a mess. Do you still
have stage right when you act? Yeah, a little bit.
I'm getting rid of it because I think you literally
have to in order to you know, be vulnerable or
like unfold in front of the camera. You have to
like try to get rid of that anxiety. But as
you get older and you develop more in securities and
like whatever in your teenage years, it's it gets harder.
(02:57):
I think being filmed during your teenagers while you're going
through puberty is an experience that so few know. But
the few people that I know, such as yourself, have
gone through it. It seems like it's been a whirlwind.
You're so good at this. I need to answer the question,
but I can't help. But um, well, yes, it's so weird,
(03:19):
and maybe not want to watch the show I was
a part of for that period of adolescence. But I
think now literally every single person is going through it,
maybe in a you know, just in a different way.
We all have social media now, and kids have Snapchat
and they'll broadcast that to their friends, and maybe it's
inescapable for them too. So I feel for everyone. I
think we're all going this really. I mean, in today's times,
it's just we're so exposed. What was it like growing
(03:43):
up having so many eyes on you and the pressures
of social media? With that, I know you're barely on
social media. If we love, we stand, but you know what,
mental health is a priority and I get that. So
what was that like? Because I remember, for a minute,
they're in like and you were really active and you
were I remember I ran into her. I remember I
(04:04):
ran into Navia at Beauty Content was before we became
like friends, and I remember she was just I was
seeing her just always posting and just on the ground.
I was like, how does this girl? Um? I love you.
I feel like that was a different person. It's hard
to even I mean, that's what you are at thirteen
or whatever. You're just kind of like a sponge soaking
(04:27):
up your environment, what's arounding, what other people are doing.
And so that really doesn't feel like me as much
as it feels like a character that was like an
amalgamation of the people around me. So that's kind of
my answer on that. I don't know how I was doing,
and I don't. I just don't think I had the
self awareness at the time to like really be introspective.
You know, maybe at that time I should have been like,
you know, you're learning. Yeah, you've always been so mature
(04:49):
and I am always so just in awe of how
like we are very similar in that where I think
we're a lot older than our age and have always been.
And I think it's just it's a struggle for people,
especially making friends with people are age. I think that's
one of the reasons why we connected, because it's hard
to it's hard to find people that have the same
drive or don't want to focus on the same things
(05:11):
like social media. I mean, yeah, and gosh, that's a
good point. I think that is why we connected, and
you've always been so good at managing social media and
being I know it's really I mean, from my perspective
at least like being on it um for an appropriate
amount of time. But also I don't know, it just
seems like you're well balanced and you just traveled to Europe.
Can I say that you just traveled to Europe by yourself?
(05:32):
I mean that's like a testament to who you are,
not just drive, but your own you know, esteem and
confidence within yourself. And I'm really inspired by it. Thank
you so much? Did you enjoy yourself? So it was
up and down. Solo travel is not easy, but I
wanted to prove to myself that I could do it
because I was just we're just overcoming anxiety. That's just
the goal, you know. I've been thinking of my life
(05:54):
is like three months increments and I'm like, Okay, who
am I going to be in the next three months?
And how can I grow to that person? That's good.
That makes me anxious thinking about it, But that's good.
But I mean does that help you? That helps manager?
And it helps manage my anxiety because if I think
of everything over a year, Oh, but then when I
think of little increments, and for me, so travel with
(06:15):
something I've really wanted to do, but more so I
saw someone some friends do it, and I was really
inspired by them, and I just was prepared. I well
researched my area before I went. But I spent like
six days in Paris by myself. Wow, oh, I have
so many questions. What are your questions? I just, um,
did you meet anybody while you were there? No? I
(06:37):
was by myself. Did you you said it was up
and down? What was that? What did that tradectory look like?
First day? You were up and then maybe? So here's
my here's okay. So basically I the flight was fine.
I get to Paris. My phone isn't working, and I'm like,
oh it was. And for those who don't know me,
I'm an anxious person and this was just testing my anxiety.
(06:59):
So I my phone wasn't working, I couldn't text. I
logged into the WiFi of airport and then finally allowed
me to log on, but I still couldn't reach. I
got a car before because I knew I wouldn't be
able to read the airports because it was all in French, right,
So I was very cautious of that, and then so
(07:19):
I couldn't find my driver. I eventually found him, smart
by the way he didn't. It was It was weird
because I was told that my driver that I that
I got um had a flat tire, and so this
driver was going to bring me that driver. But this
driver didn't do that, and so in my mind, I'm like, oh,
my goodness, I'm just in a car with this person.
(07:40):
No I am in France. If you're me, I'm thinking
that this is I'm thinking I'm being Yeah, i think
I'm being kidnapped. I'm thinking all the worst things, like
phone isn't working, it's a hundred and five degrees when
I land, and that it was during like the heat wave.
So did it get better better from there? Not much
better from there, I think. So. I have always been
(08:01):
very aware of like the mind to body connection and
how like your mental health, your anxiety, how it can
manifest in your bodies physically. But it was so aggressive,
it was hard to take control, and because no one
else was there, no one can help me snap out
of my own mind. So it was a challenge in
that respect, but I pushed through it and it was
(08:24):
really good. I made my own perfume in Paris. I mean,
there's no other place in which you should make right now,
but you can't spell it war off. Yeah, perfumes don't
wear on me at all. Yeah, exactly, that's what I mean.
So fast, so fast, I don't know. Yeah, I put
someone like two minutes ago. I went to the Liful Tower.
I went. Everything there was like all my meals. It
(08:48):
sounds very romantic. It was very romantic, but so inexpensive. Well,
I'm going, you're gonna I want to go to Europe.
Wanted we should go. We should get a group who Oh,
I literally have a friend's in Paris right now. I'm
not going to say their name because they like to
be like, you know, down down, and that would be
so fun. So you're moving to Atlanta for six months
(09:09):
next week, Sammy, I am so happy to see you.
It really is, like obviously, it's a pleasure to see
your friend who you love and trust and get tough
great conversations with. So I I am busy, but I
think I'm kind of like in for opinion for a pound.
If I'm busy, I don't mind being even busier if
the new ends. Absolutely, I know, because if you're already
(09:29):
in it, you're like, yeah, also, you're not like a
thing on the to do list. I'm happy to see you.
I'm feeling a lot of things about I'm from Atlanta,
so it's going to be going back. I'm going back,
and I really I think in the past year, I
found my place in l A and found my friends
and kind of falling in love with it in a
way I didn't think I would. I was like, l A,
you know that's so, you know, we became we probably
(09:52):
became friends this time last year, yeah, August, yeah, or July,
probably July. We met in um catch up lunch, and
I feel like knowing each other for years, and we
actually became friends. We talked about shows, yeah exactly. We Yeah,
we've been acquaintances, like really warm acquaintances, acquaint acquaintances, acquaintances,
(10:14):
and then we actually became friends. Like a year ago,
we were in such a different place. We were, Yeah
you were in college. Well yeah, yeah, in college, in
college going to school. But honestly, something that's really genuinely
like motivates me and inspires me. It is like how
(10:35):
much you're still motivated by school and determined like it
pushes me to be like, you got this, that's really sweet.
First of all, your commitment to both maintaining your career
and also, you know, pursuing an academic career has really
been inspiring to me. Um, but also just the fact
that you are very thoughtful about your future. So whatever
(10:57):
that means, it might not mean completely you know what. Ever,
it means you're just super thoughtful about it. And I
think I really want to adapt that to my life.
So I am currently on the route, you know, attending
a four year but at the same time, I'm like,
I like your totally. I like your fluidity that you've
embraced in your life and managing it, and I think
I want to apply that to my It's because I
(11:20):
I've been learning there is a gray area, and I've
been and I struggle with that. I'm like the other
you know, there's this whole gray area. So I'm just
taking it semester by semester and seeing what life happens.
Because also, like, school is always there and I know that,
and I'm learning a lot while there. But on the
other hand, if an opportunity would present itself, it's always
(11:43):
it's always there as a backup. Totally. I think that's
a perfect way to put it. I mean, you have
to live your life, and life is unpredictable, and to
think that we can plan it outstep by stuff, it's
just unreasonable. I am guilty of it, but I'm trying
to step How does your go ahead? Sorry, no, it's
just it's hard. How does your anxiety manifest? Oh? My,
(12:04):
so many different ways? Socially, academically, Okay, what else is there? Generally?
Um like, generally it's alwa, It's just it's always there
in some type of way. I also have O c D,
which makes it it's just like they feed off each
other and it's just not it's not it. I've just
(12:25):
been coming to terms with the fact that I may
be an anxious person. I really deny. I mean, this
is not diagnosed, and I don't know for sure if
I am. But I think I'm realizing that anxiety has
a lot of different definitions or off in a lot
of different ways, and I think I'm I'm super guarded
and sometimes and I think maybe that's just a form
(12:48):
of being anxious or like, definitely have a lot of
career academic anxiety. I find myself very much living in
the future or living in daydreams to try to like
cope with my fear about the present. Oh same, is that?
What that is? Do you do the same thing? I
do that too. It's it's really hard, especially I think
the times that we've lived in for the past two
(13:09):
and a half years, we've been daydreaming for like the
next thing to get out of where we're at. And
I feel like we're finally started at this point where
it's like we should be also be enjoying where we are,
but it's so difficult. Is that how your anxiety manifest
would you say? I think so? I think I'm yeah,
I think I'm also just super sensitive to like over stimulation,
(13:30):
which is kind of inevitable right now. Like you are
a young person who's grown up in the age of
the Internet and social media, you have so much coming
at you all the time, even if you try to
mitigate it, like I'm barely on Instagram, but still like
if I you know, being an actor, particularly entertainment should
(13:51):
be recreational, but it's also it's all I know exactly.
It's studying. When you listen to a podcast, it's it's studying. No,
I love podcast. My dad sorry, study, and I'm like, no,
I'm just listening. Try. It's hard, but it's hard, and
it's hard not to like watch something or see a movie,
which I love doing. But at the same time, that's
my career. So I get anxiously like, gosh, why am
(14:13):
I not doing something like this? How can I do
something like this? I like that my brain just feels
like it's always on, and I think a lot of
people experience the same thing. So I don't know what
to call it. Is it like, is that anxiety or
what is that? I think it manifests in so many
different ways. But when you know how a sausage gets made,
you know the process, it's so natural for that to
(14:33):
be Like, I wonder what they did about this totally.
I like the idea, though, like you can't explain art
down to a science. It's not meant to be. It's
not it's it's not math, it's not you know. It's
like I think, I I've been actually considering what I
want to study. I'm at a crossroads. I've always said
(14:54):
I wanted to like definitely pursue something, you know, social
science and sociology, cultural loss of apology, yes, something like that.
But that I don't. I mean, I do really love
movies and I want to get behind the scenes of
it one day, And so should I be pursuing that.
I'm like, you can do both. Yeah, there are some
curriculums or some programs for sure. Major double major major, minor. Yeah,
(15:16):
I guess that's probably the answer. But at the same time,
major and like film and then minor in psychology. That's
probably the route that I'm going to go. I could
could you see that from that's pretty badass? Okay, we
have to take a quick break, but when we come back,
I want to talk about other aspects of the industry
might be interested in partaking in, and some existential life questions.
(15:39):
We'll be right back and we're back. I could see
you doing some producing and directing in the future too,
I think that is. I mean, i'd like the idea
of control. Oh, same, I love the idea of it too.
(15:59):
It's so and I've just been Yeah, I've been an actress,
just kind of reading the lines I've been given. Um,
I do more than that. I would probably should't be
that reductive, but in essence, I've just been performing other
people's dreams and writings Since I was six, and I'm like, Okay,
I think maybe I want to I want to do
my own things. Yes, what was that entail? Um? I
(16:22):
definitely like the idea of writing. I've always loved writing.
Did I not tell you to do this? Like a
year ago? Na, I believe we had this exact conversation.
I would be like, yeah, you were really even really
good at like writing or doing something. I'm sure you
did because truthfully, and you're gonna deny this, you're always
a few steps ahead of not just me, but just
I feel like you're a very much a big picture
(16:43):
thinker and maybe when some people aren't ready for it.
I remember having this conversation. I was like, I feel
like we've had this conversation before. Um, probably definitely just
coming around too late, and I'm definitely coming around to it.
I think it. I had like an epiphany probably like
winter of last year, and I was like, oh, you know,
I don't have to wait. When we went to the
team books summit, Oh my gosh. Maybe around that side.
(17:07):
That was fun. That was the day. It was a
long day. That was that was a super long day.
But I think you've had it changed. My god. We
were at We went to the Team Books summit together
and it was in December, and I chose to wear
a dress, a sun dress I should wear, thank you,
but very not warm, um and true. So we went
(17:29):
across the street at one point when there was like
no speakers or anything, and Urban Outfitters was having a
pretty good thing and I was like, let me get
some pants and sure, and remember boots. I did get
a pair of boots and I love them, wear them.
I haven't the summer, but they are in storage for
my in my dorm room and we're going to whip
(17:50):
him out this year and we're just gonna rock them good. Oh.
I can't wait to see them again. Those are I
think one of my favorite pair of boots I bought.
It's not the best when you want to posibly buy
something and it ends up being like a staple. That
was crazy. That was great, But that was a real friendship.
That was a real friendship moment right there. I speaking
of the team folks on of this is like shifting
gears a little bit. But how do you feel about
(18:13):
this generation and the pressure of all of beings like
civically or um like politically engaged? Because I trust me
I mean, I've always been that way, just instinctualists talk
with you about this. I love this. So I feel
like it's really hard to be our age and I
feel like for me and I know it's different for everybody,
(18:35):
the way I feel less helpless is when I do something.
And for me, that's also staying educated, that figuring out
how I can connect with elected officials. That's how I
can educate myself more on just our country and the
history and the way it treats people and how what
can I do personally? And so I think it's great
(18:56):
when other people get involved because I think that we're
the generation that when we come together in large amounts,
like we've seen what it can do. But I also
understand that some people that doesn't interest them and they
just want to be a kid. And I feel like
we shouldn't force anyone to do to be active if
it's just personally how I feel I am making an
(19:17):
impact or can do something in this crazy fucking no.
I I agree. I think that, um that is totally
like how I feel less helpless, Like I I feel
physically like I have to. At the same time, I
really get frustrated by the rhetoric that comes from older
generations that's sort of in line with like gen Z
is gonna save us, like it's our responsibility, Like we
(19:40):
need help, we need help. I think every individual should
be engaged some way, and sometimes it's can be so
small within your own community. But I mean there is
so much pressure when people have said, multiple people have
said to me, you know you're gonna be the one
to fix us, Like why Donna the generation? I'm like me,
little me. I still haven't gotten my permit um neither
(20:03):
have I. That's right, you told me about that. I know.
I still I'm nervous to take you a second time.
But my brother told me to just suck it up,
just do it. I'm like, if you fail, I fail,
you got it exactly. You can always do it again.
Here's a question. Are you more afraid of failure or success?
I'm thinking about this yesterday. Tell you my answer a
good question. Yeah, okay, So I think I'm more afraid
(20:25):
to succeed than to fail, because I feel like if
I'm failing, you're only failing if you don't get back up.
But I feel like if you succeed, then I'd be
worried of how much there is to lose. Let's just
got deep. But no, Sammy, that's like such a good question,
Like I'm going to start asking other people that and
(20:45):
then giving you credit. Question. Um, I am totally just
so afraid of failure, so I think it will be
disingenuous for me to say anything else. However, I've never
considered fully being fearful of success. I even bringing it
back to the team, folks, I'm at I am terrified
of the amount of attention some people receive we talked
about and that you might receive as so. Prime example,
(21:06):
Olivia Rodrigo really just cool personal round performed there, and
just seeing the amount of people who were invested in her,
in her performance, when she was wearing and everything made
me and I'm not even uncomfortable. There were people like
I want to see what she's wearing, and I want
these grown me. These were grown men older than her, older,
(21:28):
way older. And I told and I remember, it was
just dis concerning how many people cared so much about
her personal life. And I think that's a real issue
that's happening. And we see this like you shouldn't put
anybody on a pedestal. It's dehumanizing to do that to anybody,
Like what people don't get these are just teenage Yes,
even if you could be praising them. I think praising
(21:50):
somebody excessively and like you know whatever, what's we're braiding
them excessively is totally coming from the same place. Yes,
And I saw that happen with her, and I was
just like, gosh, I feel for her because ultimately she's
just a human being like we all are. And in
(22:11):
that way, I'm totally fearful of success that like that
version of it, that concentrated and people know everything about
caring about you, being invested in your life and your decisions.
That is terrifying to me. But it also comes aloud privilege.
You know, it is interesting, but so many people our
age want that. It's interesting just seeing how many people
(22:33):
want their goal. Their end goal is faint, but not
what they're doing or their journey. And I want this,
But I think that's particular. I mean, maybe it happens
started and maybe like if I could guess, like nineties,
early two thousands, you had to ntview, you had just
more um kind of intimate entertainment about celebrities lives. So
maybe that sort of craze started then of like people
(22:55):
wanting not just to be an actress or wanting to
be famous. So maybe that's where it started. But I
think it's even more intense now within this generation, and
I think that's bad. I think some of the people
that started are like the Paris Hilton and the Kim
Kardashian where though I think they've become incredible like business
women and great things, at the time, they became famous
for not doing that, for just they became famous for
(23:16):
being famous. And I think that's where the craze started totally,
and it's even more intense now and and to some degree,
I get it. You want to be important. It hurts
to be alive and feel I imagine it would hurt
to be alive and feel like you hadn't left Mark
and I totally. I mean in speaking of you know,
if you're failure, that's where it comes from. For me,
it's like I want to make the most out of
(23:38):
this life, like I've got to do something with the
time I have. And so I think it's maybe those
people who strive for fame where we just have the
same fear, which is a failure and wanting to be important.
So I get it, but I saw compensating for something. Yeah, totally,
I get it. But I think we all needed like
shifter our values. And I say this, you know to
myself as well too, not success or whatever. People's definitely
(24:00):
enough that is, but just um pride within oneself and
the actions that you're taking. I've been defining success lately
as contentness, being happy with that and not about the numbers,
because as soon as I go down that, why do
I not grow down? Well? Comparison, Oh sammy, do you
do the same thing? Just like comparing I comparison. I
(24:22):
don't look at numbers for the podcast. If one person
is listening, that's all I care about. Yeah, yeah, I
think that you're totally right. I mean, I'm just so
bad when it comes to comparing and like but just
afected by the outside world. Yes, it's do it all
the time. And I think have you noticed that when
I'm when I'm on at least when I'm on social media,
(24:43):
I do it less. And that's why I am like, Wow,
social media is great to not be honest, yes, no, exactly,
Like that's why for most of the time I have
Instagram to lead it off my phone I'm not like
an angel, though I totally redownload and like, go check
somebody's story. But otherwise I like to keep it off
because if I'm not reminded of um, it's not even
(25:05):
particular people, it's just the world at large, I can
focus on myself and what I want to accomplish my
own self esteem. But it's incredibly difficult. So I guess
I would just encourage everybody to do what they can
to too. Detach a little bit. And I will say
that was one of the really good things about so
Will Travel for me is it gave me a lot
of time to think and thinking like where do I
(25:26):
want to go? What do I want it? What are
my intentions? What do I hope to put out right?
You know, you sort of have to force yourself to
be with yourself exactly, And I wish I would have
done that earlier. Wherever you go, there you are. Yeah.
And when I first heard that, it terrified the ship
out of me because I was like, Buck, I should
probably really learned to like being with myself if I'm
(25:46):
stuck with myself. So that's what the journey is. It's
so funny you say that, Gosh, that's Quotes like that
are bringing more and more too as I get older.
Just like the quintessential stuff you heard when you were younger,
whatever the meaning now yeah, I know exactly, just like
treat yourself the way you want to be treated. Just
all this stuff. It's like, oh wow, it's so hard. True,
(26:07):
it's incredibly hard. Um, but it's all ringing, very true. Yeah,
wherever you go, there you are. So you have to
focus your energy and resources in your time, not scrolling
through your feed I get the instinct, but instead focusing
it on yourself and how you can be a better person.
And I just realized you could swear on the pod.
Yeah you can't, And I think that's great. Yeah, anytime
(26:31):
we have to take one more quick break, but when
we come back, I'm gonna talk more about your love
of acting and your new amazing role in Gotham Nights.
We'll be right back and we're back. One of the
things that I'm curious about is there a struggle with
(26:54):
being an actor. You're going to someone else's mind and
you're drawing another character and creating another person essentially, but
when you're also working on yourself, is that every difficult
when you're working on someone else. Um, that's such a
good question, Sam, you're so good. Um, yes, and no
to So to be honest that my work thus far
(27:16):
has been pretty simple, and that when you were young,
you're usually cast because of your essence and not because
you're being asked to play some sort of like transformative character.
So I really haven't had that experience of having to
do like some deep psychological work. I'm excited for it
and look forward to that, but I haven't had that yet.
Going into this new job that I'm doing, it will
(27:36):
be different. I think I'll have to do more character work,
and I am and I'm excited about that. But I
think you kind of find yourself through characters. Maybe I
don't think they're entirely separate. Um, I think you kind
of you can just kind of unravel and unfold. And
I think that's why I gravitate towards acting. I think
I've always felt conflicted about who I am, and that's
(27:57):
partly because of age, but it's also because, as I said,
I think I'm I don't know if impressionable as the word,
but I really soaked up my environment and so when
I was younger, it was my four brothers and just
kind of becoming them and reflecting their personalities. Um and
so I've always felt like I don't know exactly who
I am, And maybe that's why I like acting, because
I can like no exactly and for once that becomes
(28:19):
a benefit and not something I just like about myself.
The idea that I can be a ton of people,
or that I hold a bunch of perspectives in my
mind is actually a benefit to me in acting. So
for me, I feel like it's just pulling from like
all the all the little parts with me right now.
That's that's so beautiful. That's also like a working theory.
(28:39):
But you know what, like that's life. And be easy
on yourself because you are still a teenager. Of course
you're you're about to not be soon. Know just airs
I'll be twenty What I didn't I was hesitant to
bring it up. But I feel like you're so ready
for twenty. I feel like when I first met you,
you were already like settling down. I've always ready to
have always been ready to not be a team ajan.
(29:00):
As soon as it started, I was like, Nah, this
isn't for me. So I'm hoping twenties is great. Oh,
I think it will be. I mean, that's all you
hear from people that either actually and then thirties are thriving.
My parents are like their thirties for their favorite decade.
And that's an extreme comfort to me because it's like
your twenties both more money exactly, more money resources and
(29:22):
you know yourself exactly. I like that, Sammy. I can't wait.
I wonder what's going to be like, Oh, I think
it'll be great. I think we'll be like just having
these same conversations, except maybe with a little more wisdom
and perspective. M I love that. I want to talk
about your show real quick because I am so proud
of you. You were I mean, god, I really just
(29:45):
love you and I'm great for you because you were
there for me. There was a year of unemployment and
you were there, of course to believe in me and
really um encourage me to kind of take my life
into my own hands. And it's great that I am
just now picking up on that, like like what's happened?
Like what's happened? So Gotham Knights. I saw the trailer.
(30:05):
I haven't even watched the whole thing because I can't why, Um,
I've used this word a lot of this episode to
excuse me, but yeah, it makes me anxious. You know what.
I was like, I did not expect the twist and turns.
I'm so, I'm really I'm very excited to watch it
because I was like, oh, ship, didn't expect that. It
was just the trailer. I really, God, I hope you
like it. You know, it's hard, like there's so much pressure,
(30:26):
especially within like the DC comic book community, and um,
especially with me. I'm kind of hesitant to speak about this,
but like, I'm playing a character that's adapted from the
comics from the comic books called Kerry Kelly who was
depicted white m h in the comics, and I'm not,
um really yeah, I don't know. Did you know that? Um? So,
(30:52):
it's just been hard because like the first thing when
I was researching my character after I found out I
got the role, the first thing that shows up, because
Deadline had already done like press release that this news
was out there on YouTube, was some random video from
like this old guy Gotham Knights will be a woke disaster.
My face on the thumbnail. Great, that's a reminder of
like that's still where we are. That I can just
(31:14):
be born um and have a particular pigment and whatever
particular ethnic makeup, and I am representative of Awoke Disaster.
But that doesn't make any sense to me because it's bullshit.
But also, like your talent will just show that's all
(31:34):
you can do. All you can do is do your best,
thanks and be what you think this character is. I
think that's the direction we want to move into. Right
where where people are being I mean speaking, yeah, I
mean right. It's just like, why does it matter about
the essence of somebody? You know, why does it matter?
Don't worry whoever made that video? And who's all the
people who are disappointed in casting a lot of other
(31:57):
like white people on the show. So it's and I
promise they're there. You've got your representation, I promise, I
promise use enough representation for everyone. Trust me, Mr Gotha
Niese will be Awoke Disaster. I get the desire to
have representation, but you have it. It's there in the show.
You have it, you know what you know? Brown and yeah,
brown people can have maybe. I mean I don't like
(32:19):
to put myself on that pedestal, but but I think
everybody deserves obviously to be represented. I mean, that's what
we want out of entertainment. So just relax, people have
their time see it, you can be it, yes exactly,
and think of the impact that that can have on
people that will see you on the screen. I yeah,
And that makes me again, makes me anxious and I
and I don't want to put myself on that pedestal.
I I feel like we're in a time where there
(32:39):
are so many great examples of people of color represented
with them film and TV to look at, and so
um yeah I I, um yeah, Well, I know you
don't think yourself. I think you're who cares like what
your skin color is. I think you're just an incredibly
talented person. And I am so excited for this next
chapter and see what it's gonna just unravel for you,
(33:02):
because y'all were all is about to see nab A Robbins.
Get ready hopefully they like her. I don't know. I was,
you know, I've never been very like caught into trailers,
and that trailer was really good. Yeah. That means I
highly recommend you watch it. Oh, I I'm you know,
I'm a fan of the show. Like I read the
first the pilot. Um, and got treated before I took
(33:25):
the role whatever, and I was a fan of it.
I was like, oh gosh, they did Natalie James, um Chad,
these writers, they just did a good job. It's fun.
It's it's really fun. In the second episode I just
read it, It's really fun, and I'm just like, oh, God, like, yeah,
I'm excited to be a part of something that I
considered pretty kid gas and um. I have so many
ambitions as an actress and and this is one of them,
(33:46):
and I'm excited I get to fulfill this at such
a young age. So thank you for being supportive of it.
Of course, all I want is my friend's approval. I
really mean it. I probably I will always be here
to support always, thank you all, always speak here to
support you. I'm a fan of yours and grateful for you.
I love you. You're just really an inspiration to me.
(34:07):
I hope you don't take that as sachurin. And I
can't wait to see where you go next. I can't
wait to be in our thirties together reflecting on reflecting, Yeah, exactly,
And I can't wait to see what this will look
like for you the next six months, hopefully I'll get
to visit you in Atlanta. Yes please, we'll FaceTime also
and just catch up and think it knows for FaceTime,
thanking us for FaceTime. And we can't let six months
(34:29):
go back. We can't. Oh, I'm sad this conversation's ending.
I'll do it again. We'll do it again. And just
thank you for just taking the time with everything you
have going on in your life. And I appreciate you
just always being there for me and be having you
as a friend and very grateful. It's a lovely way
to spend it. Thank you so much, Sai.
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to the Less Bureau Podcast.
I'm so excited because my dear friend Navia Robinson is here. Guys,
I'm so excited to be here, my dear friend Sammy
here obviously because it's your podcast. Really, this has been
so long overdue. Yes, it totally has. We've been talking
about this for ages, and I'm so glad to finally
(00:22):
be here. I was thinking about it and I met
you in that sounds correct, And at that time I
had just come back from the UK and I was
filming a show and I am pretty certain I was
speaking to you. And what was a British? Were British?
I was convince she was British. Guys. We were all like,
I was my first big shoe and I worked with
three Dio Disney and it was at the Sacks fifth Avenue,
(00:45):
like rand opening, and I met Navia because we were
we were the only kids there, yes, that were like interviewing,
and then she was like British and my mom was
there and my brother is there, and I remember us
leaping be like what was her accent? Is she British?
So funny to me. I remember quite a few things
from that night. Well, first of all, I want to say,
I don't understand why I was talking in a British
(01:05):
accent because I played an American character on that show.
But I was also at a very impressionable age, and
so I guess I just soaked up that accent. I
probably liked it a lot, because you know, I was
like loving it. Doesn't love a British accent, beautiful accent.
And I'm sure my castmates were like this, go on, Um,
I was there for three months, okay, but an impressionable age, Yes, exactly,
(01:28):
thank you so much. I'm helping you, trying to help me. Yeah.
We also saw we bonded over seeing Neil Patrick. We
were like, we're freaking out because yes, I just remember
bonding over. I mean already. It was quite a strange
circumstance because it's a very novel experience. We were at
Sax Fifth Avenue working there for like the window unveiling.
It was special and we were still they shut it
(01:50):
down the store that day, and we were so young
and it was so overwhelming and surrounded by adults too.
Of course, I was so scared because here you were,
you know, you're you're an actress. You've been on TV.
I this was coming up on my since my first
real year like working with them, and I hadn't done
anything like that before. You must have made quite the impression.
(02:12):
This is you're one, you're two. If this was your
year one, yeah, wow, and you're already that's incredible. I
was just like, I still have stage fright in a way,
and particularly at that age. I think when I started,
I was like five or six years old, so I
had no fears and no insecurities. Yeah, you don't think
about it. And then at eleven and then probably until
(02:35):
like fifteen, I was just a mess. Do you still
have stage right when you act? Yeah, a little bit.
I'm getting rid of it because I think you literally
have to in order to you know, be vulnerable or
like unfold in front of the camera. You have to
like try to get rid of that anxiety. But as
you get older and you develop more in securities and
like whatever in your teenage years, it's it gets harder.
(02:57):
I think being filmed during your teenagers while you're going
through puberty is an experience that so few know. But
the few people that I know, such as yourself, have
gone through it. It seems like it's been a whirlwind.
You're so good at this. I need to answer the question,
but I can't help. But um, well, yes, it's so weird,
(03:19):
and maybe not want to watch the show I was
a part of for that period of adolescence. But I
think now literally every single person is going through it,
maybe in a you know, just in a different way.
We all have social media now, and kids have Snapchat
and they'll broadcast that to their friends, and maybe it's
inescapable for them too. So I feel for everyone. I
think we're all going this really. I mean, in today's times,
it's just we're so exposed. What was it like growing
(03:43):
up having so many eyes on you and the pressures
of social media? With that, I know you're barely on
social media. If we love, we stand, but you know what,
mental health is a priority and I get that. So
what was that like? Because I remember, for a minute,
they're in like and you were really active and you
were I remember I ran into her. I remember I
(04:04):
ran into Navia at Beauty Content was before we became
like friends, and I remember she was just I was
seeing her just always posting and just on the ground.
I was like, how does this girl? Um? I love you.
I feel like that was a different person. It's hard
to even I mean, that's what you are at thirteen
or whatever. You're just kind of like a sponge soaking
(04:27):
up your environment, what's arounding, what other people are doing.
And so that really doesn't feel like me as much
as it feels like a character that was like an
amalgamation of the people around me. So that's kind of
my answer on that. I don't know how I was doing,
and I don't. I just don't think I had the
self awareness at the time to like really be introspective.
You know, maybe at that time I should have been like,
you know, you're learning. Yeah, you've always been so mature
(04:49):
and I am always so just in awe of how
like we are very similar in that where I think
we're a lot older than our age and have always been.
And I think it's just it's a struggle for people,
especially making friends with people are age. I think that's
one of the reasons why we connected, because it's hard
to it's hard to find people that have the same
drive or don't want to focus on the same things
(05:11):
like social media. I mean, yeah, and gosh, that's a
good point. I think that is why we connected, and
you've always been so good at managing social media and
being I know it's really I mean, from my perspective
at least like being on it um for an appropriate
amount of time. But also I don't know, it just
seems like you're well balanced and you just traveled to Europe.
Can I say that you just traveled to Europe by yourself?
(05:32):
I mean that's like a testament to who you are,
not just drive, but your own you know, esteem and
confidence within yourself. And I'm really inspired by it. Thank
you so much? Did you enjoy yourself? So it was
up and down. Solo travel is not easy, but I
wanted to prove to myself that I could do it
because I was just we're just overcoming anxiety. That's just
the goal, you know. I've been thinking of my life
(05:54):
is like three months increments and I'm like, Okay, who
am I going to be in the next three months?
And how can I grow to that person? That's good.
That makes me anxious thinking about it, But that's good.
But I mean does that help you? That helps manager?
And it helps manage my anxiety because if I think
of everything over a year, Oh, but then when I
think of little increments, and for me, so travel with
(06:15):
something I've really wanted to do, but more so I
saw someone some friends do it, and I was really
inspired by them, and I just was prepared. I well
researched my area before I went. But I spent like
six days in Paris by myself. Wow, oh, I have
so many questions. What are your questions? I just, um,
did you meet anybody while you were there? No? I
(06:37):
was by myself. Did you you said it was up
and down? What was that? What did that tradectory look like?
First day? You were up and then maybe? So here's
my here's okay. So basically I the flight was fine.
I get to Paris. My phone isn't working, and I'm like,
oh it was. And for those who don't know me,
I'm an anxious person and this was just testing my anxiety.
(06:59):
So I my phone wasn't working, I couldn't text. I
logged into the WiFi of airport and then finally allowed
me to log on, but I still couldn't reach. I
got a car before because I knew I wouldn't be
able to read the airports because it was all in French, right,
So I was very cautious of that, and then so
(07:19):
I couldn't find my driver. I eventually found him, smart
by the way he didn't. It was It was weird
because I was told that my driver that I that
I got um had a flat tire, and so this
driver was going to bring me that driver. But this
driver didn't do that, and so in my mind, I'm like, oh,
my goodness, I'm just in a car with this person.
(07:40):
No I am in France. If you're me, I'm thinking
that this is I'm thinking I'm being Yeah, i think
I'm being kidnapped. I'm thinking all the worst things, like
phone isn't working, it's a hundred and five degrees when
I land, and that it was during like the heat wave.
So did it get better better from there? Not much
better from there, I think. So. I have always been
(08:01):
very aware of like the mind to body connection and
how like your mental health, your anxiety, how it can
manifest in your bodies physically. But it was so aggressive,
it was hard to take control, and because no one
else was there, no one can help me snap out
of my own mind. So it was a challenge in
that respect, but I pushed through it and it was
(08:24):
really good. I made my own perfume in Paris. I mean,
there's no other place in which you should make right now,
but you can't spell it war off. Yeah, perfumes don't
wear on me at all. Yeah, exactly, that's what I mean.
So fast, so fast, I don't know. Yeah, I put
someone like two minutes ago. I went to the Liful Tower.
I went. Everything there was like all my meals. It
(08:48):
sounds very romantic. It was very romantic, but so inexpensive. Well,
I'm going, you're gonna I want to go to Europe.
Wanted we should go. We should get a group who Oh,
I literally have a friend's in Paris right now. I'm
not going to say their name because they like to
be like, you know, down down, and that would be
so fun. So you're moving to Atlanta for six months
(09:09):
next week, Sammy, I am so happy to see you.
It really is, like obviously, it's a pleasure to see
your friend who you love and trust and get tough
great conversations with. So I I am busy, but I
think I'm kind of like in for opinion for a pound.
If I'm busy, I don't mind being even busier if
the new ends. Absolutely, I know, because if you're already
(09:29):
in it, you're like, yeah, also, you're not like a
thing on the to do list. I'm happy to see you.
I'm feeling a lot of things about I'm from Atlanta,
so it's going to be going back. I'm going back,
and I really I think in the past year, I
found my place in l A and found my friends
and kind of falling in love with it in a
way I didn't think I would. I was like, l A,
you know that's so, you know, we became we probably
(09:52):
became friends this time last year, yeah, August, yeah, or July,
probably July. We met in um catch up lunch, and
I feel like knowing each other for years, and we
actually became friends. We talked about shows, yeah exactly. We Yeah,
we've been acquaintances, like really warm acquaintances, acquaint acquaintances, acquaintances,
(10:14):
and then we actually became friends. Like a year ago,
we were in such a different place. We were, Yeah
you were in college. Well yeah, yeah, in college, in
college going to school. But honestly, something that's really genuinely
like motivates me and inspires me. It is like how
(10:35):
much you're still motivated by school and determined like it
pushes me to be like, you got this, that's really sweet.
First of all, your commitment to both maintaining your career
and also, you know, pursuing an academic career has really
been inspiring to me. Um, but also just the fact
that you are very thoughtful about your future. So whatever
(10:57):
that means, it might not mean completely you know what. Ever,
it means you're just super thoughtful about it. And I
think I really want to adapt that to my life.
So I am currently on the route, you know, attending
a four year but at the same time, I'm like,
I like your totally. I like your fluidity that you've
embraced in your life and managing it, and I think
I want to apply that to my It's because I
(11:20):
I've been learning there is a gray area, and I've
been and I struggle with that. I'm like the other
you know, there's this whole gray area. So I'm just
taking it semester by semester and seeing what life happens.
Because also, like, school is always there and I know that,
and I'm learning a lot while there. But on the
other hand, if an opportunity would present itself, it's always
(11:43):
it's always there as a backup. Totally. I think that's
a perfect way to put it. I mean, you have
to live your life, and life is unpredictable, and to
think that we can plan it outstep by stuff, it's
just unreasonable. I am guilty of it, but I'm trying
to step How does your go ahead? Sorry, no, it's
just it's hard. How does your anxiety manifest? Oh? My,
(12:04):
so many different ways? Socially, academically, Okay, what else is there? Generally?
Um like, generally it's alwa, It's just it's always there
in some type of way. I also have O c D,
which makes it it's just like they feed off each
other and it's just not it's not it. I've just
(12:25):
been coming to terms with the fact that I may
be an anxious person. I really deny. I mean, this
is not diagnosed, and I don't know for sure if
I am. But I think I'm realizing that anxiety has
a lot of different definitions or off in a lot
of different ways, and I think I'm I'm super guarded
and sometimes and I think maybe that's just a form
(12:48):
of being anxious or like, definitely have a lot of
career academic anxiety. I find myself very much living in
the future or living in daydreams to try to like
cope with my fear about the present. Oh same, is that?
What that is? Do you do the same thing? I
do that too. It's it's really hard, especially I think
the times that we've lived in for the past two
(13:09):
and a half years, we've been daydreaming for like the
next thing to get out of where we're at. And
I feel like we're finally started at this point where
it's like we should be also be enjoying where we are,
but it's so difficult. Is that how your anxiety manifest
would you say? I think so? I think I'm yeah,
I think I'm also just super sensitive to like over stimulation,
(13:30):
which is kind of inevitable right now. Like you are
a young person who's grown up in the age of
the Internet and social media, you have so much coming
at you all the time, even if you try to
mitigate it, like I'm barely on Instagram, but still like
if I you know, being an actor, particularly entertainment should
(13:51):
be recreational, but it's also it's all I know exactly.
It's studying. When you listen to a podcast, it's it's studying. No,
I love podcast. My dad sorry, study, and I'm like, no,
I'm just listening. Try. It's hard, but it's hard, and
it's hard not to like watch something or see a movie,
which I love doing. But at the same time, that's
my career. So I get anxiously like, gosh, why am
(14:13):
I not doing something like this? How can I do
something like this? I like that my brain just feels
like it's always on, and I think a lot of
people experience the same thing. So I don't know what
to call it. Is it like, is that anxiety or
what is that? I think it manifests in so many
different ways. But when you know how a sausage gets made,
you know the process, it's so natural for that to
(14:33):
be Like, I wonder what they did about this totally.
I like the idea, though, like you can't explain art
down to a science. It's not meant to be. It's
not it's it's not math, it's not you know. It's
like I think, I I've been actually considering what I
want to study. I'm at a crossroads. I've always said
(14:54):
I wanted to like definitely pursue something, you know, social
science and sociology, cultural loss of apology, yes, something like that.
But that I don't. I mean, I do really love
movies and I want to get behind the scenes of
it one day, And so should I be pursuing that.
I'm like, you can do both. Yeah, there are some
curriculums or some programs for sure. Major double major major, minor. Yeah,
(15:16):
I guess that's probably the answer. But at the same time,
major and like film and then minor in psychology. That's
probably the route that I'm going to go. I could
could you see that from that's pretty badass? Okay, we
have to take a quick break, but when we come back,
I want to talk about other aspects of the industry
might be interested in partaking in, and some existential life questions.
(15:39):
We'll be right back and we're back. I could see
you doing some producing and directing in the future too,
I think that is. I mean, i'd like the idea
of control. Oh, same, I love the idea of it too.
(15:59):
It's so and I've just been Yeah, I've been an actress,
just kind of reading the lines I've been given. Um,
I do more than that. I would probably should't be
that reductive, but in essence, I've just been performing other
people's dreams and writings Since I was six, and I'm like, Okay,
I think maybe I want to I want to do
my own things. Yes, what was that entail? Um? I
(16:22):
definitely like the idea of writing. I've always loved writing.
Did I not tell you to do this? Like a
year ago? Na, I believe we had this exact conversation.
I would be like, yeah, you were really even really
good at like writing or doing something. I'm sure you
did because truthfully, and you're gonna deny this, you're always
a few steps ahead of not just me, but just
I feel like you're a very much a big picture
(16:43):
thinker and maybe when some people aren't ready for it.
I remember having this conversation. I was like, I feel
like we've had this conversation before. Um, probably definitely just
coming around too late, and I'm definitely coming around to it.
I think it. I had like an epiphany probably like
winter of last year, and I was like, oh, you know,
I don't have to wait. When we went to the
team books summit, Oh my gosh. Maybe around that side.
(17:07):
That was fun. That was the day. It was a
long day. That was that was a super long day.
But I think you've had it changed. My god. We
were at We went to the Team Books summit together
and it was in December, and I chose to wear
a dress, a sun dress I should wear, thank you,
but very not warm, um and true. So we went
(17:29):
across the street at one point when there was like
no speakers or anything, and Urban Outfitters was having a
pretty good thing and I was like, let me get
some pants and sure, and remember boots. I did get
a pair of boots and I love them, wear them.
I haven't the summer, but they are in storage for
my in my dorm room and we're going to whip
(17:50):
him out this year and we're just gonna rock them good. Oh.
I can't wait to see them again. Those are I
think one of my favorite pair of boots I bought.
It's not the best when you want to posibly buy
something and it ends up being like a staple. That
was crazy. That was great, But that was a real friendship.
That was a real friendship moment right there. I speaking
of the team folks on of this is like shifting
gears a little bit. But how do you feel about
(18:13):
this generation and the pressure of all of beings like
civically or um like politically engaged? Because I trust me
I mean, I've always been that way, just instinctualists talk
with you about this. I love this. So I feel
like it's really hard to be our age and I
feel like for me and I know it's different for everybody,
(18:35):
the way I feel less helpless is when I do something.
And for me, that's also staying educated, that figuring out
how I can connect with elected officials. That's how I
can educate myself more on just our country and the
history and the way it treats people and how what
can I do personally? And so I think it's great
(18:56):
when other people get involved because I think that we're
the generation that when we come together in large amounts,
like we've seen what it can do. But I also
understand that some people that doesn't interest them and they
just want to be a kid. And I feel like
we shouldn't force anyone to do to be active if
it's just personally how I feel I am making an
(19:17):
impact or can do something in this crazy fucking no.
I I agree. I think that, um that is totally
like how I feel less helpless, Like I I feel
physically like I have to. At the same time, I
really get frustrated by the rhetoric that comes from older
generations that's sort of in line with like gen Z
is gonna save us, like it's our responsibility, Like we
(19:40):
need help, we need help. I think every individual should
be engaged some way, and sometimes it's can be so
small within your own community. But I mean there is
so much pressure when people have said, multiple people have
said to me, you know you're gonna be the one
to fix us, Like why Donna the generation? I'm like me,
little me. I still haven't gotten my permit um neither
(20:03):
have I. That's right, you told me about that. I know.
I still I'm nervous to take you a second time.
But my brother told me to just suck it up,
just do it. I'm like, if you fail, I fail,
you got it exactly. You can always do it again.
Here's a question. Are you more afraid of failure or success?
I'm thinking about this yesterday. Tell you my answer a
good question. Yeah, okay, So I think I'm more afraid
(20:25):
to succeed than to fail, because I feel like if
I'm failing, you're only failing if you don't get back up.
But I feel like if you succeed, then I'd be
worried of how much there is to lose. Let's just
got deep. But no, Sammy, that's like such a good question,
Like I'm going to start asking other people that and
(20:45):
then giving you credit. Question. Um, I am totally just
so afraid of failure, so I think it will be
disingenuous for me to say anything else. However, I've never
considered fully being fearful of success. I even bringing it
back to the team, folks, I'm at I am terrified
of the amount of attention some people receive we talked
about and that you might receive as so. Prime example,
(21:06):
Olivia Rodrigo really just cool personal round performed there, and
just seeing the amount of people who were invested in her,
in her performance, when she was wearing and everything made
me and I'm not even uncomfortable. There were people like
I want to see what she's wearing, and I want
these grown me. These were grown men older than her, older,
(21:28):
way older. And I told and I remember, it was
just dis concerning how many people cared so much about
her personal life. And I think that's a real issue
that's happening. And we see this like you shouldn't put
anybody on a pedestal. It's dehumanizing to do that to anybody,
Like what people don't get these are just teenage Yes,
even if you could be praising them. I think praising
(21:50):
somebody excessively and like you know whatever, what's we're braiding
them excessively is totally coming from the same place. Yes,
And I saw that happen with her, and I was
just like, gosh, I feel for her because ultimately she's
just a human being like we all are. And in
(22:11):
that way, I'm totally fearful of success that like that
version of it, that concentrated and people know everything about
caring about you, being invested in your life and your decisions.
That is terrifying to me. But it also comes aloud privilege.
You know, it is interesting, but so many people our
age want that. It's interesting just seeing how many people
(22:33):
want their goal. Their end goal is faint, but not
what they're doing or their journey. And I want this,
But I think that's particular. I mean, maybe it happens
started and maybe like if I could guess, like nineties,
early two thousands, you had to ntview, you had just
more um kind of intimate entertainment about celebrities lives. So
maybe that sort of craze started then of like people
(22:55):
wanting not just to be an actress or wanting to
be famous. So maybe that's where it started. But I
think it's even more intense now within this generation, and
I think that's bad. I think some of the people
that started are like the Paris Hilton and the Kim
Kardashian where though I think they've become incredible like business
women and great things, at the time, they became famous
for not doing that, for just they became famous for
(23:16):
being famous. And I think that's where the craze started totally,
and it's even more intense now and and to some degree,
I get it. You want to be important. It hurts
to be alive and feel I imagine it would hurt
to be alive and feel like you hadn't left Mark
and I totally. I mean in speaking of you know,
if you're failure, that's where it comes from. For me,
it's like I want to make the most out of
(23:38):
this life, like I've got to do something with the
time I have. And so I think it's maybe those
people who strive for fame where we just have the
same fear, which is a failure and wanting to be important.
So I get it, but I saw compensating for something. Yeah, totally,
I get it. But I think we all needed like
shifter our values. And I say this, you know to
myself as well too, not success or whatever. People's definitely
(24:00):
enough that is, but just um pride within oneself and
the actions that you're taking. I've been defining success lately
as contentness, being happy with that and not about the numbers,
because as soon as I go down that, why do
I not grow down? Well? Comparison, Oh sammy, do you
do the same thing? Just like comparing I comparison. I
(24:22):
don't look at numbers for the podcast. If one person
is listening, that's all I care about. Yeah, yeah, I
think that you're totally right. I mean, I'm just so
bad when it comes to comparing and like but just
afected by the outside world. Yes, it's do it all
the time. And I think have you noticed that when
I'm when I'm on at least when I'm on social media,
(24:43):
I do it less. And that's why I am like, Wow,
social media is great to not be honest, yes, no, exactly,
Like that's why for most of the time I have
Instagram to lead it off my phone I'm not like
an angel, though I totally redownload and like, go check
somebody's story. But otherwise I like to keep it off
because if I'm not reminded of um, it's not even
(25:05):
particular people, it's just the world at large, I can
focus on myself and what I want to accomplish my
own self esteem. But it's incredibly difficult. So I guess
I would just encourage everybody to do what they can
to too. Detach a little bit. And I will say
that was one of the really good things about so
Will Travel for me is it gave me a lot
of time to think and thinking like where do I
(25:26):
want to go? What do I want it? What are
my intentions? What do I hope to put out right?
You know, you sort of have to force yourself to
be with yourself exactly, And I wish I would have
done that earlier. Wherever you go, there you are. Yeah.
And when I first heard that, it terrified the ship
out of me because I was like, Buck, I should
probably really learned to like being with myself if I'm
(25:46):
stuck with myself. So that's what the journey is. It's
so funny you say that, Gosh, that's Quotes like that
are bringing more and more too as I get older.
Just like the quintessential stuff you heard when you were younger,
whatever the meaning now yeah, I know exactly, just like
treat yourself the way you want to be treated. Just
all this stuff. It's like, oh wow, it's so hard. True,
(26:07):
it's incredibly hard. Um, but it's all ringing, very true. Yeah,
wherever you go, there you are. So you have to
focus your energy and resources in your time, not scrolling
through your feed I get the instinct, but instead focusing
it on yourself and how you can be a better person.
And I just realized you could swear on the pod.
Yeah you can't, And I think that's great. Yeah, anytime
(26:31):
we have to take one more quick break, but when
we come back, I'm gonna talk more about your love
of acting and your new amazing role in Gotham Nights.
We'll be right back and we're back. One of the
things that I'm curious about is there a struggle with
(26:54):
being an actor. You're going to someone else's mind and
you're drawing another character and creating another person essentially, but
when you're also working on yourself, is that every difficult
when you're working on someone else. Um, that's such a
good question, Sam, you're so good. Um, yes, and no
to So to be honest that my work thus far
(27:16):
has been pretty simple, and that when you were young,
you're usually cast because of your essence and not because
you're being asked to play some sort of like transformative character.
So I really haven't had that experience of having to
do like some deep psychological work. I'm excited for it
and look forward to that, but I haven't had that yet.
Going into this new job that I'm doing, it will
(27:36):
be different. I think I'll have to do more character work,
and I am and I'm excited about that. But I
think you kind of find yourself through characters. Maybe I
don't think they're entirely separate. Um, I think you kind
of you can just kind of unravel and unfold. And
I think that's why I gravitate towards acting. I think
I've always felt conflicted about who I am, and that's
(27:57):
partly because of age, but it's also because, as I said,
I think I'm I don't know if impressionable as the word,
but I really soaked up my environment and so when
I was younger, it was my four brothers and just
kind of becoming them and reflecting their personalities. Um and
so I've always felt like I don't know exactly who
I am, And maybe that's why I like acting, because
I can like no exactly and for once that becomes
(28:19):
a benefit and not something I just like about myself.
The idea that I can be a ton of people,
or that I hold a bunch of perspectives in my
mind is actually a benefit to me in acting. So
for me, I feel like it's just pulling from like
all the all the little parts with me right now.
That's that's so beautiful. That's also like a working theory.
(28:39):
But you know what, like that's life. And be easy
on yourself because you are still a teenager. Of course
you're you're about to not be soon. Know just airs
I'll be twenty What I didn't I was hesitant to
bring it up. But I feel like you're so ready
for twenty. I feel like when I first met you,
you were already like settling down. I've always ready to
have always been ready to not be a team ajan.
(29:00):
As soon as it started, I was like, Nah, this
isn't for me. So I'm hoping twenties is great. Oh,
I think it will be. I mean, that's all you
hear from people that either actually and then thirties are thriving.
My parents are like their thirties for their favorite decade.
And that's an extreme comfort to me because it's like
your twenties both more money exactly, more money resources and
(29:22):
you know yourself exactly. I like that, Sammy. I can't wait.
I wonder what's going to be like, Oh, I think
it'll be great. I think we'll be like just having
these same conversations, except maybe with a little more wisdom
and perspective. M I love that. I want to talk
about your show real quick because I am so proud
of you. You were I mean, god, I really just
(29:45):
love you and I'm great for you because you were
there for me. There was a year of unemployment and
you were there, of course to believe in me and
really um encourage me to kind of take my life
into my own hands. And it's great that I am
just now picking up on that, like like what's happened?
Like what's happened? So Gotham Knights. I saw the trailer.
(30:05):
I haven't even watched the whole thing because I can't why, Um,
I've used this word a lot of this episode to
excuse me, but yeah, it makes me anxious. You know what.
I was like, I did not expect the twist and turns.
I'm so, I'm really I'm very excited to watch it
because I was like, oh, ship, didn't expect that. It
was just the trailer. I really, God, I hope you
like it. You know, it's hard, like there's so much pressure,
(30:26):
especially within like the DC comic book community, and um,
especially with me. I'm kind of hesitant to speak about this,
but like, I'm playing a character that's adapted from the
comics from the comic books called Kerry Kelly who was
depicted white m h in the comics, and I'm not,
um really yeah, I don't know. Did you know that? Um? So,
(30:52):
it's just been hard because like the first thing when
I was researching my character after I found out I
got the role, the first thing that shows up, because
Deadline had already done like press release that this news
was out there on YouTube, was some random video from
like this old guy Gotham Knights will be a woke disaster.
My face on the thumbnail. Great, that's a reminder of
like that's still where we are. That I can just
(31:14):
be born um and have a particular pigment and whatever
particular ethnic makeup, and I am representative of Awoke Disaster.
But that doesn't make any sense to me because it's bullshit.
But also, like your talent will just show that's all
(31:34):
you can do. All you can do is do your best,
thanks and be what you think this character is. I
think that's the direction we want to move into. Right
where where people are being I mean speaking, yeah, I
mean right. It's just like, why does it matter about
the essence of somebody? You know, why does it matter?
Don't worry whoever made that video? And who's all the
people who are disappointed in casting a lot of other
(31:57):
like white people on the show. So it's and I
promise they're there. You've got your representation, I promise, I
promise use enough representation for everyone. Trust me, Mr Gotha
Niese will be Awoke Disaster. I get the desire to
have representation, but you have it. It's there in the show.
You have it, you know what you know? Brown and yeah,
brown people can have maybe. I mean I don't like
(32:19):
to put myself on that pedestal, but but I think
everybody deserves obviously to be represented. I mean, that's what
we want out of entertainment. So just relax, people have
their time see it, you can be it, yes exactly,
and think of the impact that that can have on
people that will see you on the screen. I yeah,
And that makes me again, makes me anxious and I
and I don't want to put myself on that pedestal.
I I feel like we're in a time where there
(32:39):
are so many great examples of people of color represented
with them film and TV to look at, and so
um yeah I I, um yeah, Well, I know you
don't think yourself. I think you're who cares like what
your skin color is. I think you're just an incredibly
talented person. And I am so excited for this next
chapter and see what it's gonna just unravel for you,
(33:02):
because y'all were all is about to see nab A Robbins.
Get ready hopefully they like her. I don't know. I was,
you know, I've never been very like caught into trailers,
and that trailer was really good. Yeah. That means I
highly recommend you watch it. Oh, I I'm you know,
I'm a fan of the show. Like I read the
first the pilot. Um, and got treated before I took
(33:25):
the role whatever, and I was a fan of it.
I was like, oh gosh, they did Natalie James, um Chad,
these writers, they just did a good job. It's fun.
It's it's really fun. In the second episode I just
read it, It's really fun, and I'm just like, oh, God, like, yeah,
I'm excited to be a part of something that I
considered pretty kid gas and um. I have so many
ambitions as an actress and and this is one of them,
(33:46):
and I'm excited I get to fulfill this at such
a young age. So thank you for being supportive of it.
Of course, all I want is my friend's approval. I
really mean it. I probably I will always be here
to support always, thank you all, always speak here to
support you. I'm a fan of yours and grateful for you.
I love you. You're just really an inspiration to me.
(34:07):
I hope you don't take that as sachurin. And I
can't wait to see where you go next. I can't
wait to be in our thirties together reflecting on reflecting, Yeah, exactly,
And I can't wait to see what this will look
like for you the next six months, hopefully I'll get
to visit you in Atlanta. Yes please, we'll FaceTime also
and just catch up and think it knows for FaceTime,
thanking us for FaceTime. And we can't let six months
(34:29):
go back. We can't. Oh, I'm sad this conversation's ending.
I'll do it again. We'll do it again. And just
thank you for just taking the time with everything you
have going on in your life. And I appreciate you
just always being there for me and be having you
as a friend and very grateful. It's a lovely way
to spend it. Thank you so much, Sai.
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