July 30, 2025 • 39 mins
Morgan Hylton might be one of the youngest owners and manager of an outfitter in the country! She runs Almost Heaven Plantation, in the South Carolina Low Country. It's incredible to see how much she knows about the hunting industry but also why its so vital to the family unit.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
I hear from people all the time, Spencer. I would
love to get involved with hunting in the outdoors, but
I live on a half acre. I don't have accessibility
to land, and I certainly don't have money to spend
up membership. And while that might be true, there are
actually good ways where you can get involved in the
outdoors and have a better success freate just by doing
a couple of little things. Today on Lines and Times,
(00:28):
the premiere Hunting and Fishing podcast, we're going to talk
to Morgan Hilton. Morgan runs an outfitter called Almost Heaven
Plantation in the low country of South Carolina. We're going
to talk about the strengths and weaknesses, the opportunities and
the threats at all face hunting. But we're also going
to break down where Morgan came from and how she
got involved in becoming maybe one of the youngest general
(00:52):
managers and owners of an outfitter in the country. Morgan,
where are you from?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Originally from Beckley, West Virginia, so hence the name of
Almost Heeven case you're familiar with the John Denver song
that everybody loves to listen.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
To, you do you want to get into an argument
right off the rip about that song, do it? You
know it's not about the state of West Virginia.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, I kind of picked up on that, but it
mentions it, so we're going with it.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
But see, that's what's so funny to me is it's
it's actually about Western Virginia exactly. And when people see Mountain, yeah,
because that's.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Where Gella Valley.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
That's where I'm from. So every yes, So every time
I hear people talk about John Denver and almost Heaven,
I'm sitting there going he's talking about Route eighty one,
Highway eighty one, Interstate eighty one in Virginia. He's talking
about that because as a kid, I used to go
to West Virginia all the time. I would take my
(01:51):
jeep and go four wheeling. I would go to Timberline
and go skiing. I would go to Snowshoe like all
these different places in West Virginia. And I love the state.
It was. It's a beautiful state. It gets trashed on
a lot, but it's a great state.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
It does.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
And in the winters are a little bit more you know,
rough there compared to what I'm living in South Carolina.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Now, So what was the transition you grew up in Beckley.
I'm sure your parents and family were involved in coal mining,
since that's kind of the big thing in Beckley.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Absolutely so, and we still have some property up there
that we go up and visit and things, but otherwise
we kind of transition down here for having a different
kind of opportunity and somewhere that you could either hunt
or you could fish all year round. Like there's there's
no breaks down here in the South. There's always something
going on.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
But you went to South Carolina after West Virginia, Like,
were you done with college and then you moved down
there or were you kind of always thinking after high school,
this is where I'm going to end up.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So in the middle of my high school years is
actually when I made that transition. I saw that there
was a good potential for a college opportunity for me
down here, and we had just bought the property and
kind of developed that a little bit, so it was
something I wanted to be a part of more and
so I saw that as a good place.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
For me to be.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So where did you go end up going to college?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
University of South Carolina. That's where my degrees are from.
I've got business management and the hospitality management, which fit
right into what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Do you do you feel that that was the best
possible choice, then.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I do. I'm very happy with my degrees of choice.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I did want to stay close to what I'm calling home,
would be here just because my dad was sick for
many years, and so I wanted to be close to
him and take the opportunity to be on the property and.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Learn all those values from him. So I didn't go
away to school.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I had some other places in mind that I was
looking at, some more business schools.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
But I'm very happy with the choice I made.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
So you had no interest in staying in West Virginia
and lighting couches on fire, No.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
No, I'm not. I'm not gonna say I'm not a
WBU fan. We were a split household between WVU and Marshall.
But yes, I moved on South.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Okay, Well, now you're in South Carolina. Your family owns
almost Heaven Plantation. It's a wonderful piece of property. You've
got upland hunting, you have deer hunting, you have trophy
bass fishing lakes, which is just incredible. It really does
feel like kind of a Heaven kind of scenario.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
That's exactly right. Goes back to that always something to do.
I mean that is almost heaven because there's always something
going on.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
But now that you're doing the management side, do you
get to enjoy the property for what you guys bought
it for?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Not near as much as I would like to.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I think that's pretty much anybody in this kind of position.
You realize there's a lot of work that goes into it,
and another year round thing to do is the work
that goes in the management side of it. If you're
not deer in the midst of your season with people here,
you're in the out of season and you're trying to
plan everything to make next to your even better for them.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Your family always saw this as an outfitter opportunity or
did they just see this as a family piece of
ground and then you eventually helped them see the light
of being an outfitter.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
That's exactly how it went. We started out this was
kind of a private place. We hunted on it just ourselves,
but we saw that we're in such a great place.
We're in the heart of the South Carolina low country,
so we're only like thirty minutes from Savannah, Georgia. Two
hours from Augusta, Columbia, an hour and a half from Charleston,
(05:37):
not too far from Hilton Head.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
So we're in just a great hub spot.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
And there's a lot of plantation and large land chunks
in this area, but there's none that we're really commercialized,
and so we were able to take advantage of that
business opportunity and be able to share this with others.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Did that come with some hardships?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It did at this start, and it's still always will
because when we first started it, you know, this is
a very private place and now you're sharing it with
all these people. Granted, it's a wonderful thing and I
love getting to meet new people and be able to
teach you know, what I know and what we've learned here.
But it's also, you know, kind of that invasion of
(06:19):
privacy that you have to get used to of having
a private place that goes public.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So I still live on property, and so we have
people that come and stay with us. You know, if
you live on property, you're on the clock twenty.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Four to seven, so you don't really feel like you
get a break then, no, But I love it. Well,
it's great that you guys made that decision. I know
some people that have had healthy chunks of land and
when they decided to go to an outfitter or more
of a commercial space, they got a lot of flag
(06:54):
from people in the community. Did that happen with you guys?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Luckily not.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I'm going to knock on wood, but a lot of
that goes to the area itself.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I mean, this is what everybody loves to do here.
It's just a way of life. We've met so many
great people.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Along the way and so many like minded individuals that
it made that transition pretty easy for us, and we've
had a lot of support with it.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Take me back to West Virginia. I want to kind
of get a sense of who you are as a
child and what got your passion for the outdoors going.
Your mom and dad were involved in the coal mining industry.
Is that where it started or that's correct.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yes, So we've got several generations where that go back
into the coal mining industry. But that's a lot of
where my dad's background was of something that he flourished
in and we had, like I said, some property up there,
and so that's where we lived and spent a lot
of our time in the woods. We had a shed dog,
a lab that would retrieve you know, antlers in the woods,
(07:58):
and so every weekend sometimes that's all we would do
is just walk for hours, learning trails, making new trails.
You know, we had horses and we trail ride through
the woods and cut new paths. I mean, all kinds
of things that are going on to just be able
to be one with the land and be involved with it.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
You mentioned that you were from several generations of coal miners,
so obviously your dad didn't really start the business. As
far as getting involved in coal mining. His father, I'm assuming,
was a coal miner as well. How far back does
that go.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Probably as far back as that you can believe. We
were in Virginia first and then moved to West Virginia,
and I'm talking several generations back. But as far as
what my dad did is it's similar to almost what
you're saying of kind of what I did here. Of
he took that coal mining industry to the next level.
(08:53):
So so he founded what was called the Friends of
Coal organization. So instead of being just a part of
the mine, he was big into land, which in Stato,
West Virginia. If you're big in the land, that also
means that you're big into coal. So you saw that
opportunity there and was able to turn a lot of
these old strip mines into different things. So like the
(09:16):
Boy Scouts of America, they're new, I say, he is
probably about ten years old, but they're a jamboree place
that's up there. So that used to be a strip
mine that he owned, and so they worked on that
for many years. But then he donated that land to
the Boy Scouts to be able to have a place.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
To host that.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So what's a strip mine if somebody's just listening to
lines and Times and they're like, we talk and fish,
and what's the strip mine all about?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So you have two different types of coal mining. One
is deep mine and that's the one that you typically
think about when you're in the coal mining industry, where
you're digging underground and it's a very cold, dark kind
of situation. The strip mine is where you kind of
start from the top and you strip the layers of
the ground to get to that coal level and you're
(10:02):
taking that out.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Is that the kind of mining that makes these giant quarries,
so these big open pits that people say yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yes, that's a good way to think of it. It's
not quite a rock quarry, but it is you're digging down.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Ironically, I do a lot of diving, and sometimes old
quarries are the best places to do some diving because
the water clarity tends to be really good because whatever
is happening under the surface, the minerals and how they
mix in with the water. You get like, there's some
quarries that look like you're in the Caribbean.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, I mean I've heard of.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
A good rock quarry in Florida to go fishing.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Too, tons. I mean, it's like if there's if there's
an old quarry and they are able to get water
in there. There's some about the sediment and something about
how the planet just kind of had good mineral sources
in that area. It cleans up the water like crazy. Okay,
So your dad does the coal mining thing. He gets
really big into land. Friends of Coal sounds like a nonprofit.
(11:08):
Was that his goal was to you know, I don't
know what was the goal of Friends of Coal.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Goal of Friends of Coal was to educate the public
on the good side of what coal mining is. So
that started around two thousand, which was when some of
these media industries got a little bit bigger and more
of this stuff became public knowledge of Hey, coal mining's bad,
it's not good for the environment, so on and so forth.
(11:35):
And so what the Friends of Coal is. It's an
organization that is to subport support and promote what the
good side is, what clean coal is, How technology has
developed in how much coal impacts all of our daily lives.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, much more than just the energy source, Like, there's
so many other uses that coal goes into. And you know,
I'm not some boddy to weigh the environmental side to
anything else because honestly, I don't really know much about it.
But I do know that there are a lot of
people in a lot of different states. West Virginia is
obviously big for coal mining, but there's a lot of
(12:13):
coal that goes all throughout the US. So your dad
has retired in coal mining and then decided for his retirement,
let's go to South Carolina and purchase this property.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Absolutely wanted to move on to the next business venture.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Wow, So your dad's always been business minded, not just
like digging coal with a hammer and a pickaxe and
all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Definitely from the start, always looked for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
All right, you mentioned earlier that when you went to school,
your dad wasn't too doing too great. Is he still
with us?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
No, he passed us a few months ago.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
So how big of an impact was that on you?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Major? Major?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
It won luckily since I knew a little bit ahead
of time that he wasn't doing well, we always kept
I hopes of him to get better, as when most
people do. But it was huge for me to realize,
you know, he was such an idol to me that
I would strive to be like him and still do
(13:15):
and want to make him proud. And so that has
really kind of influxed of my decision of where I
want to go and.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Be in life.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
It's also difficult too when you lose a parent, because
you spend really your entire life hoping that you make
them proud. I'm sure your dad shared with you several
times that you made him proud and that you want
to continue and carry out that legacy. I go through
that my dad and family owns nursing homes and has
operated him since nineteen seventy and there's a big part
(13:45):
of me that was like, man, maybe I should have
gotten into that. But my dad would always tell me,
you need to go out and go do your own thing,
because you can make me more proud doing what you
want to do than trying to follow in my footsteps.
So do you feel that you're following in your father's
footsteps or are you making him proud in the way
that you feel his.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Best I'm gonna say a little bit of both. We
were very like minded in the best ways. But oftentimes
I still have those conversations of you know, what would
he want versus what I would want, and kind of
find wherever that middle place would be for this business
in particularly, but otherwise, no, the outdoor industry is always
(14:26):
where I've wanted to be since I was very young.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
We talk about hunting and fishing and things.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I was going through a photo album the other night
and I found a picture that had the date on
the back where I was just two weeks old sitting
on the front of a bass boat.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So I talk about barn and grays. Two weeks old.
Pretty young.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Your parents didn't tell you if you fell in, did they?
They just said, now she was good.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
I never never heard any part of that.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
There you go, that's good, yeah, because those are the
pictures that don't always make it into the photo album.
How do you kind of look at the property and
then decide this is what we want to do in
these areas.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
So there is.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Always management to be done. So it's not necessarily major changes,
but it's just little things that you got to keep
up with and a lot of that goes into learning
from other people, kind of getting their inputs, having biologists
come in and see what they have to say, do
some testings. But it's always constant little changes that are going.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
On in the hunting industry. Everybody thinks it's under attack,
and while there's anti hunters that are out there, hunting
itself is still a fabric of life. It's the oldest
thing that exists on planet Earth, dates back all the
way before the Ice Age and all that kind of stuff.
But when you look at some of the strengths of
hunting and some of the weaknesses, what are those things
(15:48):
that stick out to you?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
As far as drinks go, it goes just to like
what you're saying, it's the people. It's the people that
are involved in it, and there's so much funding that
comes from having the right licenses and tags and things
that go to support wildlife conservation, and that goes towards
not just the animals, but to the land that they're on.
(16:11):
When I know, just from this two thousand acres, the
amount of management that goes on to be able to
promote that next generation and wild population of quail and
other species. I mean there's millions of acres just around
here that are impacted by this.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, the Robertson Pittman Act is something that the casual
person has no idea, but when they really do a
deep dive, and I really do hope that if anybody's
listening to this podcast and they're against hunting, look into
the amount of money that goes from sales of firearms,
archery all the way to ammunition sales. And then look
(16:54):
at how much money comes from the federal government goes
to different states. Some states get, you know, a couple million,
other states get way more than that, depending on what
they have. But it's all funded by hunters and the outdoorsmen,
who I've said this to a lot of people. Outdoorsmen
do more for the protection of animals and the growth
(17:15):
of populations than the anti hunter ever will absolutely and
I think a lot of that comes down to the
funds that are raised. Like I see people talking about,
you know, oh, the hunting in South Africa. It's just
going out there and it's big money from the West,
and it's to eradicate poaching. But all they're trying to
(17:36):
do is take a picture of an animal. If they
knew how much one person's hunt of ten thousand dollars
impacted the economy in South Africa, their minds would be blown.
I don't know if you've ever traveled for hunting or
if you've gone to South Africa, but I landed in
South Africa and I was driving four hours and we
(17:57):
were on what they consider a highway you and I.
I would consider it a rural road that's just like
beat up and some of it's dirt and potholes all
over the place. But I witnessed five or six guys
on a side of this highway with weed eaters, and
they were mowing the grass. And I'm sitting there thinking
(18:18):
to myself, why wouldn't you just get them a mower?
So I asked the guy who was driving, I go,
it's kind of rare to see six guys with weed eaters.
Why don't you do that? And they go one mower,
one job, six guys with six eight weed eaters is
six positions there. Their unemployment rate is forty two percent
(18:38):
between the ages of eighteen and sixty five males working.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
So they create jobs by making the work a little harder,
but they're trying to get more people into the workforce
and that's how they do it. It's like if you
go to get your hair cut and they were using
the world's smallest little scissors to try to cut your hair,
we'd all be like, this is an efficient But places
with terrible unemployment, that's what they need. Hunting is the
(19:04):
second largest industry in South Africa, just behind diamond mining,
and it is the sole reason why that entire country
has not collapsed yet because of the fact that you
have people coming in to spend tens of thousands of
dollars to go after animals in an ethical way to
make sure that you're protecting species, but you're also giving
(19:26):
people jobs in the ability to feed their own family.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Absolutely never thought of it that way.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And we don't have those issues here in the United States, right.
Like the big thing in the United States is if
you want to go hunt you can hunt. I think
one of the biggest issues that we have is accessibility
to land.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yes, and that's something too that kind of goes hand
in hand with new hunters, a new generation either one
of those of a place that supports that, because there's
a lot of outfitters where you're going to pay top
dollar and you're just expected to know what to do.
Where I like to welcome beginners and new people to
come in and we're more than willing to teach you
(20:06):
what you need to know. I'd rather people ask the
question that they feel like is dumb than not ask
and then do something dumb. So to be able to
have that open mindedness, to be able to listen to
those questions and answer honestly, I think is important to
be able to teach.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
And I don't think it's just that new generation.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It really goes into just new hunters, people that have
interest in coming into this that don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Anything about it.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
It's a great point that you bring up. We have
a mutual friend named Jeff Barnes, and Jeff and I
met through Georgia SCI which is the local chapter in
the state of Georgia, and they're just some incredible people.
Doing incredible work. But we were putting on different events,
and when we got to talking about different events, one
of the things that people kept bringing up is, let's
teach kids how to hunt. Now. I'm all here for
(20:58):
it because I went to a public school in Virginia
where they taught us hunter safety. You could sign into
that class instead of gym class for a year, and
I did it, and I loved it, Like I learned
so much about it. I think it's one of the
most impactful classes that I ever had in my school history,
including college. But what I realized about that was it's
(21:20):
great to introduce kids to the outdoors, but I think
it's better to introduce anybody to the outdoors. So we
did not a kid shooting event. We did a first
time shooters event. So if you've never shot a gun,
if you've never gone hunting, you had an opportunity to
come out and you could learn from people who have
done it. We had ages from eight all the way
(21:40):
up to eighty eight. There was a man there who
is eighty eight years old and he was like, I've
never done this. I have a bucket list where I
want to learn how to hunt. I want to get
a license. I want to take a year, and I
want to do it before I die. And he was
able to do it all within three weeks.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Wow, eight to eighty eight.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
So those are some of the things that I love.
And it sounds like that's kind of where your mind
is too, Like it's not just about bringing up kids.
Kids are great and it's awesome to do that, but
you really want to open up your doors and say,
if you have an interest, at least come and listen
and come and learn and then see if this is
a fit.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Definitely, and being a female in the industry doing that,
you know, I really support the women in the outdoors
projects that goes again for new hunters, but also they're
the ones that are usually in charge of that next
generation and choosing what summer camps they do, or what
programs they do or vacations that they go on, and
(22:36):
to be a part of that would be a huge impact.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Morgan, what an incredible explosion in the hunting industry is
women who have gotten involved in the outdoors.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
It is. It is amazing how quickly that it's almost
overnight sensation in the past few years of how much
it has.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Grown, you've probably had to deal with a little bit
of people come up to the booth a trade show
and they go, I'd love to meet your owner who
runs this place, And all of a sudden they look
over and they're like, Morgan, do you want to take
a staff at this? And they they're probably shocked to
see that there's a woman behind an actual plantation, a
working hunting outfit.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yes. Yes, and I've had a few encounters. You know,
you're always going to have somebody that has something to say.
But overall, I've had a great experience with it, and
I plan on to continue forward with it as long as.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I'm You must feel like a little bit of a
pat on the back, though, you know, when you get
to introduce yourself as the owner or the general manager,
whatever you say your title is to somebody who may
not realize that women are in those positions of power,
it is.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
It is, it sometimes can be. It's it.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
You definitely have to kind of prove yourself every now
and then. You know, somebody asked me not too long ago,
of you know, have you had any issues with that?
For the most part, no, But it does make you
have to work two times as hard because you have
to show, hey, I do know what I'm talking.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
About on this. So every now and then you run
into something.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Well, an issue is something that you can't fix. An
opportunity is what you're pretty much getting because even though
you have somebody who might question your ability or question
the fact that you're running something, you just look at
it as an opportunity. You strike me as the type
of person who's like, if you put an obstacle in
front of me, I'm going to figure out a way
to get over it.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Absolutely take a picture when I'm done.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
We've talked about the strengths of fishing or of hunting,
and we've talked about the fact that it's the people
that truly make it great. What's a weakness in the
hunting industry?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I would definitely say a weakness would be again kind
of goes back to some of that social media.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
I mean, it can be just as good as it
can be bad.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
A lot of people get the wrong image and a
bad rap on what that hunting industry is. And some people,
well there's no individuals in mind, but there's some people
that are to blame of thinking of it suggest for
that trophy harvest and that's what they're taking those pictures
of and showing they're not getting to hear the backstory
(25:14):
of what all goes into that, where that meat's going
after that, of everything it took to get to have
that trophy size animal. There's a lot more that goes
into it. It's not just about the harvest.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
I love that you bring that up because I run
a consulting firm for outfitters, professional hunters, professional fishermen, organizations
businesses that are all in the hunting and fishing out industry,
and one of the things that I teach them the
most is you need to know what content you're putting
out there. And I think one of the biggest weaknesses
(25:48):
that we have that you have, coupled with what you
said about social media, is how can we effectively show
what the hunting industry is through social media to where
people don't just see somebody sitting behind the rack, thinking
what else is going to happen with that animal? Why
would you do such a thing?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yes, to understand a little bit more of the reason
why that you're.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Going to do that.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
That's why I think some things like are guys over
at Meat Eater, I think they did a great job
when they came out with their show on Netflix, because
that was the first time that you saw a hunting
show breakthrough on a streaming platform and break through with
big numbers. But not only was he showing the hunt,
but he was showing the people behind the hunt. He
was showing the hunt itself. He was talking about the animals,
(26:35):
the impression that they leave upon the landscape, the predation
that exists that shouldn't naturally be there. I mean, you
and I could spend hours talking about coyotes and feral
hogs and all these things that probably run rampant in
the low country.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Definitely knock on wood. We're high enough ground that we
do not have any cogs on property. But I mean,
you can go twenty miles down the road and find
a state so keeping that hopefully that they stay away
from it.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
But you hear about this, You hear about this from
for other property owners that are like, when hogs get
in here, they absolutely destroy everything. And it's not just oh,
they ripped up some of my grass. They literally took
out about six to nine months of work for you
to get that product to where it was.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Definitely, and it's not that they're just affecting the animal
that you're going to try and hunt for. I mean,
you're talking about all kinds of species down to even
like your pollinators and things. If they're tearing up those grasses,
tearing up those plots, that's affecting the whole ecosystem, not
just what you're trying to go for a trophy harvest.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And I love that you bring that up because that's
another thing that we should be doing in the hunting world,
which is talking about the conservation of not just deer, turkey,
ducks in or wild populations that we have, but some
of the things that make the ecosystem so healthy.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I hear people try to argue against hunting coyotes, and
I'm like, they're not going for the eight year old buck,
They're not going for the five year old mature dough.
They're going for the fawn that can't protect itself. It's
an easy meal and they waste a lot of that animal.
And if we cut off the younger animals, we're not
(28:22):
going to have those older animals for those future generations
to not just hunt but bear witness to.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, and the deer is a major thing for that.
I mean, you hear about all the car wrecks. You
see them on the side of the road. I mean,
there's a lot of population things in studies and statistics
that go into all this. It's not just because I
think so. There's science behind it.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, there was a research study that was done a
couple of years ago, and I think the wild deer
population of white tailed deer in North America eclipse thirty
five million. Where really in nineteen oh four, right after
hunting was eliminated as a business practice and taking on
(29:06):
more of quotas managed and what we know as hunting
now with the Western model, we were down to three
million I think. I mean it was a crazy low number.
It may have been even lower than that, but that
goes to show that the Western model of conservation and
hunting really does protect more of these species than people
(29:29):
have ever seen.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
It definitely does.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
And I mean, I think two of the biggest industries
as far as hunting goes, you're talking about deer and duck.
I think are your two largest nities as far as
number wise, And that's two populations that are still tremendously strong.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
We had a guy in Alabama who reached out to
Safari Club International. They use sci a lot. So if
you know them for that, that's who they are. But
they are one of the only nonprofits, actually the only
nonprofit in the hunting world that has full time attorneys
that work for them in legal counsel. And he was
a guy that owned This is kind of reminiscent of
(30:08):
your story, but you have a plot of land that
is in your family. Well, he had a duck club
that was in his family for years, and it just
so happened that the property owner next door gifted part
of his property to the county to build a new
high school. So they were going to build in a
high school. Well where were they going to put it?
Right on the edge of this guy's duck club property.
(30:30):
So what ended up coming into play was the state saying, hey,
you can't have a duck club anymore, because now you'll
have guns within five hundred yards of a school and
that's banned. This guy had no idea what to do.
He's like, what am I going to do with this property?
So they reached out to all these different organizations who said,
(30:52):
can't do anything for you, don't we don't want to
get involved, blah blah blah. He reached out to sci
drafted a letter said you were going to disturb some
Indian burial grounds. You were going to disturb local populations
of bugs and birds and all these different species that
they're trying to protect that are native, And they ended
(31:14):
up shutting down the project on the school. This guy
gets to maintain his duck club. So it's great that
there are organizations that want to protect landowners like yourself,
just in case somebody decides to make a change that
could impact you.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Definitely, because it's not always just about the hunt. It's
really not for many aspects of it. But when you're
coming to talking about, you know, the influx of growth.
I mean even in our area, we've seen a big
push in like that coyote population, for where some of
these subdivisions are coming in south of US, towards the coast,
(31:49):
and they're pushing some of this population out and up,
and we've seen a big difference in it, and a
lot of surrounding areas have too. But it's important to
realize what you're disturbing there.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
And when you're talking about populations, you managed so many
different ones. You have a deer population, I'm sure you
have turkey in the low country, but you also have
a pretty heavy upland game. Are you guys running grouse
at all? Do you run quail or is it primarily pheasant?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So we are mostly quail, So we have Bob White
quail here. So something for South Carolina is it used
to be very large in its wild quail population and
then it really depleted over many years. And there's one
hundred different reasons of why that may be. But we've
on our property kind of developed some structure points to
(32:42):
where we've been able to grow some of that wild
population back, and a lot of other neighboring properties that
we've helped to influx that too, to where we're now
trying to get involved with some other organizations, say like
Quail Forever, to be able to bring some of their
people in and give us more information data on what's
best for us and all of our neighbors to do.
(33:05):
Since we're already seeing with what we've done that wild
population come back, I'm really excited to see where we
plan on going with it from here.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Are you guys tied in with the federal government and
the state governments of boosting the CRP that you have
and the different grasses that you have to keep those
populations growing.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
So we have some biologists and things that we work
with to try and work on that.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
So I've always been kind of enamored with the Babwei
quail population because, just like you were saying, a lot
of those used to be native to areas, but for
whatever reason, they have really depleted and diminished. But you're
starting to see a resurgence of that. Have you guys
been involved, you yourself personally with the reintroduction of these
quail back onto the grounds.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So we use a couple of different efforts, but a
lot of that is just providing the right type of
grounds for them to be able to do. You prescribe burns,
have food plots, have right escape cover. I mean, this
goes into the hunting side of it. But we're seeing
a huge impact on those birds that are able to
survive and to repopulate. I mean, we've had from our account,
(34:16):
we've had over twenty clutches and a clutch is you know,
a hatch of baby quail. But we've had over twenty
clutches that we've been able to just see personally just
for walking through the woods and during the summer, you're
not doing that every day. But they have even like
a recall whistle that they do, and whenever they do
(34:37):
this whistle, that means that they're still looking for a mate.
And we're talking of early July where we still had
a lot of these birds that were whistling and calling
back to each other, showing that they're still looking to
reproduce and a female so long as their nest is intact. Again,
it goes back to that structure, pork and what you
(34:58):
have for them to live in, they will I think
it's three times in a year that they'll have these
clutches and so it's an incredible amount that they can reproduce.
But it's something that's been damaged in the past and
we're very happy to see some growth back in it.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
So you're seeing strong numbers coming out of your reintroduction
of not just the birds that you guys bring in,
but now they're starting to continue on their legacies. Yes, absolutely,
that's incredible.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
And there's some of the wild population too. It's not
just what we're putting out, it's wild birds that were
originally here from who knows when.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
But those two have to mix. I mean, you know,
if you're if you're farming birds and taking birds and
placing birds, which you guys are part of that program.
Ultimately some of those birds become native, become wild because
they were supposed to be there anyway.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I would definitely think so, you know, there's a lot
of research that's gone into it, and I really think
it goes back to different areas kind of depending on
where you are in the country. I think it really
changes of what that narrative is, of what the results
are of that repopulation for place birds.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
We've talked about the strengths, the weaknesses, and some of
the opportunities that hunting has. What are the threats.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I don't think people think about what politics actually go
into this.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I know we touched a little bit on this earlier.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Of the lack of information that some of our legislature has.
I think it can hurt and a lot of people
need to realize of what really goes on in that
of how important it's the education of the hunting industry
is of showing the goods, showing the positive. You know,
that homestead life style has kind of come back to
(36:52):
show of what it's like to live off the land
and be able to promote that. And there are some
amazing organizations that support this. The Congressional Sportsman is one
of those. You know, they're a cock kind of based
for our legislature to be a part of and support.
But somebody that's close to here that lives nearby is
(37:16):
Chris Dorsey. So he's also a board member of that
Congressional Sportsman and part of a TV series that he produces.
But he does a great job at writing some articles
and putting on his show of kind of what's important
behind that and to be a part to be involved
in the politics isn't something that people usually want to do,
(37:38):
but it's an important.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Thing to do.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
People don't realize that the hunting issue is actually a
really bipartisan issue too, because I know most people categorize
it saying all hunting is only something Republicans like to do.
When you go to different parts of the country, you
know this being in West Virginia, you go to Kentucky,
and Kentucky is pretty much run by blue and Democratic
(38:02):
governors and Democratic people that are involved heavily in the
labor side of you know, farming and agriculture and all
those things, but they take a heavier stance on being
pro hunting than some of their counterparts do in different
parts of the country.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Isn't that funny how that works.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
We've experienced it some here too, of people that have
moved from up north down to the south to have
that warmer lifestyle. But they're still part of the hunting
industry and our major supporters of it.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
And we've got those people who want to leave, you know,
their busy lifestyles to go live the Yellowstone lifestyle, and
then they realize what actually goes into that. It's not
just putting on a hat and a Carhart jacket. It
takes a little more work and know how. But if
you allow yourself to be educated in what those lifestyles are,
(38:51):
you gain a much greater perspective on the world that
surrounds you.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
That's right, everybody wants to be a cowboy to it's
count of cowboy.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Well, thank you to Morgan Hilton for jumping on today.
If you guys want to book a trip to Almost
Heaven Plantation, it's easy. You can go to Almost Heavenplantation
dot com. You've been an absolute delight and very knowledgeable
in the hunting field, so I appreciate your.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Times at out of course, thank you for having me
on had a great guy.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Make sure you guys like to subscribe on the iHeart
Podcast network with lines and times. You can also find
you on Instagram, Facebook, and listeners
I hear from people all the time, Spencer. I would
love to get involved with hunting in the outdoors, but
I live on a half acre. I don't have accessibility
to land, and I certainly don't have money to spend
up membership. And while that might be true, there are
actually good ways where you can get involved in the
outdoors and have a better success freate just by doing
a couple of little things. Today on Lines and Times,
(00:28):
the premiere Hunting and Fishing podcast, we're going to talk
to Morgan Hilton. Morgan runs an outfitter called Almost Heaven
Plantation in the low country of South Carolina. We're going
to talk about the strengths and weaknesses, the opportunities and
the threats at all face hunting. But we're also going
to break down where Morgan came from and how she
got involved in becoming maybe one of the youngest general
(00:52):
managers and owners of an outfitter in the country. Morgan,
where are you from?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Originally from Beckley, West Virginia, so hence the name of
Almost Heeven case you're familiar with the John Denver song
that everybody loves to listen.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
To, you do you want to get into an argument
right off the rip about that song, do it? You
know it's not about the state of West Virginia.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, I kind of picked up on that, but it
mentions it, so we're going with it.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
But see, that's what's so funny to me is it's
it's actually about Western Virginia exactly. And when people see Mountain, yeah,
because that's.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Where Gella Valley.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
That's where I'm from. So every yes, So every time
I hear people talk about John Denver and almost Heaven,
I'm sitting there going he's talking about Route eighty one,
Highway eighty one, Interstate eighty one in Virginia. He's talking
about that because as a kid, I used to go
to West Virginia all the time. I would take my
(01:51):
jeep and go four wheeling. I would go to Timberline
and go skiing. I would go to Snowshoe like all
these different places in West Virginia. And I love the state.
It was. It's a beautiful state. It gets trashed on
a lot, but it's a great state.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
It does.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
And in the winters are a little bit more you know,
rough there compared to what I'm living in South Carolina.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Now, So what was the transition you grew up in Beckley.
I'm sure your parents and family were involved in coal mining,
since that's kind of the big thing in Beckley.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Absolutely so, and we still have some property up there
that we go up and visit and things, but otherwise
we kind of transition down here for having a different
kind of opportunity and somewhere that you could either hunt
or you could fish all year round. Like there's there's
no breaks down here in the South. There's always something
going on.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
But you went to South Carolina after West Virginia, Like,
were you done with college and then you moved down
there or were you kind of always thinking after high school,
this is where I'm going to end up.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So in the middle of my high school years is
actually when I made that transition. I saw that there
was a good potential for a college opportunity for me
down here, and we had just bought the property and
kind of developed that a little bit, so it was
something I wanted to be a part of more and
so I saw that as a good place.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
For me to be.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So where did you go end up going to college?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
University of South Carolina. That's where my degrees are from.
I've got business management and the hospitality management, which fit
right into what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Do you do you feel that that was the best
possible choice, then.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I do. I'm very happy with my degrees of choice.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I did want to stay close to what I'm calling home,
would be here just because my dad was sick for
many years, and so I wanted to be close to
him and take the opportunity to be on the property and.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Learn all those values from him. So I didn't go
away to school.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I had some other places in mind that I was
looking at, some more business schools.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
But I'm very happy with the choice I made.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
So you had no interest in staying in West Virginia
and lighting couches on fire, No.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
No, I'm not. I'm not gonna say I'm not a
WBU fan. We were a split household between WVU and Marshall.
But yes, I moved on South.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Okay, Well, now you're in South Carolina. Your family owns
almost Heaven Plantation. It's a wonderful piece of property. You've
got upland hunting, you have deer hunting, you have trophy
bass fishing lakes, which is just incredible. It really does
feel like kind of a Heaven kind of scenario.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
That's exactly right. Goes back to that always something to do.
I mean that is almost heaven because there's always something
going on.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
But now that you're doing the management side, do you
get to enjoy the property for what you guys bought
it for?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Not near as much as I would like to.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I think that's pretty much anybody in this kind of position.
You realize there's a lot of work that goes into it,
and another year round thing to do is the work
that goes in the management side of it. If you're
not deer in the midst of your season with people here,
you're in the out of season and you're trying to
plan everything to make next to your even better for them.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Your family always saw this as an outfitter opportunity or
did they just see this as a family piece of
ground and then you eventually helped them see the light
of being an outfitter.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
That's exactly how it went. We started out this was
kind of a private place. We hunted on it just ourselves,
but we saw that we're in such a great place.
We're in the heart of the South Carolina low country,
so we're only like thirty minutes from Savannah, Georgia. Two
hours from Augusta, Columbia, an hour and a half from Charleston,
(05:37):
not too far from Hilton Head.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
So we're in just a great hub spot.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
And there's a lot of plantation and large land chunks
in this area, but there's none that we're really commercialized,
and so we were able to take advantage of that
business opportunity and be able to share this with others.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Did that come with some hardships?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It did at this start, and it's still always will
because when we first started it, you know, this is
a very private place and now you're sharing it with
all these people. Granted, it's a wonderful thing and I
love getting to meet new people and be able to
teach you know, what I know and what we've learned here.
But it's also, you know, kind of that invasion of
(06:19):
privacy that you have to get used to of having
a private place that goes public.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So I still live on property, and so we have
people that come and stay with us. You know, if
you live on property, you're on the clock twenty.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Four to seven, so you don't really feel like you
get a break then, no, But I love it. Well,
it's great that you guys made that decision. I know
some people that have had healthy chunks of land and
when they decided to go to an outfitter or more
of a commercial space, they got a lot of flag
(06:54):
from people in the community. Did that happen with you guys?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Luckily not.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I'm going to knock on wood, but a lot of
that goes to the area itself.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I mean, this is what everybody loves to do here.
It's just a way of life. We've met so many
great people.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Along the way and so many like minded individuals that
it made that transition pretty easy for us, and we've
had a lot of support with it.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Take me back to West Virginia. I want to kind
of get a sense of who you are as a
child and what got your passion for the outdoors going.
Your mom and dad were involved in the coal mining industry.
Is that where it started or that's correct.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yes, So we've got several generations where that go back
into the coal mining industry. But that's a lot of
where my dad's background was of something that he flourished
in and we had, like I said, some property up there,
and so that's where we lived and spent a lot
of our time in the woods. We had a shed dog,
a lab that would retrieve you know, antlers in the woods,
(07:58):
and so every weekend sometimes that's all we would do
is just walk for hours, learning trails, making new trails.
You know, we had horses and we trail ride through
the woods and cut new paths. I mean, all kinds
of things that are going on to just be able
to be one with the land and be involved with it.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
You mentioned that you were from several generations of coal miners,
so obviously your dad didn't really start the business. As
far as getting involved in coal mining. His father, I'm assuming,
was a coal miner as well. How far back does
that go.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Probably as far back as that you can believe. We
were in Virginia first and then moved to West Virginia,
and I'm talking several generations back. But as far as
what my dad did is it's similar to almost what
you're saying of kind of what I did here. Of
he took that coal mining industry to the next level.
(08:53):
So so he founded what was called the Friends of
Coal organization. So instead of being just a part of
the mine, he was big into land, which in Stato,
West Virginia. If you're big in the land, that also
means that you're big into coal. So you saw that
opportunity there and was able to turn a lot of
these old strip mines into different things. So like the
(09:16):
Boy Scouts of America, they're new, I say, he is
probably about ten years old, but they're a jamboree place
that's up there. So that used to be a strip
mine that he owned, and so they worked on that
for many years. But then he donated that land to
the Boy Scouts to be able to have a place.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
To host that.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So what's a strip mine if somebody's just listening to
lines and Times and they're like, we talk and fish,
and what's the strip mine all about?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So you have two different types of coal mining. One
is deep mine and that's the one that you typically
think about when you're in the coal mining industry, where
you're digging underground and it's a very cold, dark kind
of situation. The strip mine is where you kind of
start from the top and you strip the layers of
the ground to get to that coal level and you're
(10:02):
taking that out.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Is that the kind of mining that makes these giant quarries,
so these big open pits that people say yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yes, that's a good way to think of it. It's
not quite a rock quarry, but it is you're digging down.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Ironically, I do a lot of diving, and sometimes old
quarries are the best places to do some diving because
the water clarity tends to be really good because whatever
is happening under the surface, the minerals and how they
mix in with the water. You get like, there's some
quarries that look like you're in the Caribbean.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, I mean I've heard of.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
A good rock quarry in Florida to go fishing.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Too, tons. I mean, it's like if there's if there's
an old quarry and they are able to get water
in there. There's some about the sediment and something about
how the planet just kind of had good mineral sources
in that area. It cleans up the water like crazy. Okay,
So your dad does the coal mining thing. He gets
really big into land. Friends of Coal sounds like a nonprofit.
(11:08):
Was that his goal was to you know, I don't
know what was the goal of Friends of Coal.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Goal of Friends of Coal was to educate the public
on the good side of what coal mining is. So
that started around two thousand, which was when some of
these media industries got a little bit bigger and more
of this stuff became public knowledge of Hey, coal mining's bad,
it's not good for the environment, so on and so forth.
(11:35):
And so what the Friends of Coal is. It's an
organization that is to subport support and promote what the
good side is, what clean coal is, How technology has
developed in how much coal impacts all of our daily lives.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, much more than just the energy source, Like, there's
so many other uses that coal goes into. And you know,
I'm not some boddy to weigh the environmental side to
anything else because honestly, I don't really know much about it.
But I do know that there are a lot of
people in a lot of different states. West Virginia is
obviously big for coal mining, but there's a lot of
(12:13):
coal that goes all throughout the US. So your dad
has retired in coal mining and then decided for his retirement,
let's go to South Carolina and purchase this property.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Absolutely wanted to move on to the next business venture.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Wow, So your dad's always been business minded, not just
like digging coal with a hammer and a pickaxe and
all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Definitely from the start, always looked for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
All right, you mentioned earlier that when you went to school,
your dad wasn't too doing too great. Is he still
with us?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
No, he passed us a few months ago.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
So how big of an impact was that on you?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Major? Major?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
It won luckily since I knew a little bit ahead
of time that he wasn't doing well, we always kept
I hopes of him to get better, as when most
people do. But it was huge for me to realize,
you know, he was such an idol to me that
I would strive to be like him and still do
(13:15):
and want to make him proud. And so that has
really kind of influxed of my decision of where I
want to go and.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Be in life.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
It's also difficult too when you lose a parent, because
you spend really your entire life hoping that you make
them proud. I'm sure your dad shared with you several
times that you made him proud and that you want
to continue and carry out that legacy. I go through
that my dad and family owns nursing homes and has
operated him since nineteen seventy and there's a big part
(13:45):
of me that was like, man, maybe I should have
gotten into that. But my dad would always tell me,
you need to go out and go do your own thing,
because you can make me more proud doing what you
want to do than trying to follow in my footsteps.
So do you feel that you're following in your father's
footsteps or are you making him proud in the way
that you feel his.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Best I'm gonna say a little bit of both. We
were very like minded in the best ways. But oftentimes
I still have those conversations of you know, what would
he want versus what I would want, and kind of
find wherever that middle place would be for this business
in particularly, but otherwise, no, the outdoor industry is always
(14:26):
where I've wanted to be since I was very young.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
We talk about hunting and fishing and things.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I was going through a photo album the other night
and I found a picture that had the date on
the back where I was just two weeks old sitting
on the front of a bass boat.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So I talk about barn and grays. Two weeks old.
Pretty young.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Your parents didn't tell you if you fell in, did they?
They just said, now she was good.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
I never never heard any part of that.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
There you go, that's good, yeah, because those are the
pictures that don't always make it into the photo album.
How do you kind of look at the property and
then decide this is what we want to do in
these areas.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
So there is.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Always management to be done. So it's not necessarily major changes,
but it's just little things that you got to keep
up with and a lot of that goes into learning
from other people, kind of getting their inputs, having biologists
come in and see what they have to say, do
some testings. But it's always constant little changes that are going.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
On in the hunting industry. Everybody thinks it's under attack,
and while there's anti hunters that are out there, hunting
itself is still a fabric of life. It's the oldest
thing that exists on planet Earth, dates back all the
way before the Ice Age and all that kind of stuff.
But when you look at some of the strengths of
hunting and some of the weaknesses, what are those things
(15:48):
that stick out to you?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
As far as drinks go, it goes just to like
what you're saying, it's the people. It's the people that
are involved in it, and there's so much funding that
comes from having the right licenses and tags and things
that go to support wildlife conservation, and that goes towards
not just the animals, but to the land that they're on.
(16:11):
When I know, just from this two thousand acres, the
amount of management that goes on to be able to
promote that next generation and wild population of quail and
other species. I mean there's millions of acres just around
here that are impacted by this.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, the Robertson Pittman Act is something that the casual
person has no idea, but when they really do a
deep dive, and I really do hope that if anybody's
listening to this podcast and they're against hunting, look into
the amount of money that goes from sales of firearms,
archery all the way to ammunition sales. And then look
(16:54):
at how much money comes from the federal government goes
to different states. Some states get, you know, a couple million,
other states get way more than that, depending on what
they have. But it's all funded by hunters and the outdoorsmen,
who I've said this to a lot of people. Outdoorsmen
do more for the protection of animals and the growth
(17:15):
of populations than the anti hunter ever will absolutely and
I think a lot of that comes down to the
funds that are raised. Like I see people talking about,
you know, oh, the hunting in South Africa. It's just
going out there and it's big money from the West,
and it's to eradicate poaching. But all they're trying to
(17:36):
do is take a picture of an animal. If they
knew how much one person's hunt of ten thousand dollars
impacted the economy in South Africa, their minds would be blown.
I don't know if you've ever traveled for hunting or
if you've gone to South Africa, but I landed in
South Africa and I was driving four hours and we
(17:57):
were on what they consider a highway you and I.
I would consider it a rural road that's just like
beat up and some of it's dirt and potholes all
over the place. But I witnessed five or six guys
on a side of this highway with weed eaters, and
they were mowing the grass. And I'm sitting there thinking
(18:18):
to myself, why wouldn't you just get them a mower?
So I asked the guy who was driving, I go,
it's kind of rare to see six guys with weed eaters.
Why don't you do that? And they go one mower,
one job, six guys with six eight weed eaters is
six positions there. Their unemployment rate is forty two percent
(18:38):
between the ages of eighteen and sixty five males working.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
So they create jobs by making the work a little harder,
but they're trying to get more people into the workforce
and that's how they do it. It's like if you
go to get your hair cut and they were using
the world's smallest little scissors to try to cut your hair,
we'd all be like, this is an efficient But places
with terrible unemployment, that's what they need. Hunting is the
(19:04):
second largest industry in South Africa, just behind diamond mining,
and it is the sole reason why that entire country
has not collapsed yet because of the fact that you
have people coming in to spend tens of thousands of
dollars to go after animals in an ethical way to
make sure that you're protecting species, but you're also giving
(19:26):
people jobs in the ability to feed their own family.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Absolutely never thought of it that way.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And we don't have those issues here in the United States, right.
Like the big thing in the United States is if
you want to go hunt you can hunt. I think
one of the biggest issues that we have is accessibility
to land.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yes, and that's something too that kind of goes hand
in hand with new hunters, a new generation either one
of those of a place that supports that, because there's
a lot of outfitters where you're going to pay top
dollar and you're just expected to know what to do.
Where I like to welcome beginners and new people to
come in and we're more than willing to teach you
(20:06):
what you need to know. I'd rather people ask the
question that they feel like is dumb than not ask
and then do something dumb. So to be able to
have that open mindedness, to be able to listen to
those questions and answer honestly, I think is important to
be able to teach.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
And I don't think it's just that new generation.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It really goes into just new hunters, people that have
interest in coming into this that don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Anything about it.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
It's a great point that you bring up. We have
a mutual friend named Jeff Barnes, and Jeff and I
met through Georgia SCI which is the local chapter in
the state of Georgia, and they're just some incredible people.
Doing incredible work. But we were putting on different events,
and when we got to talking about different events, one
of the things that people kept bringing up is, let's
teach kids how to hunt. Now. I'm all here for
(20:58):
it because I went to a public school in Virginia
where they taught us hunter safety. You could sign into
that class instead of gym class for a year, and
I did it, and I loved it, Like I learned
so much about it. I think it's one of the
most impactful classes that I ever had in my school history,
including college. But what I realized about that was it's
(21:20):
great to introduce kids to the outdoors, but I think
it's better to introduce anybody to the outdoors. So we
did not a kid shooting event. We did a first
time shooters event. So if you've never shot a gun,
if you've never gone hunting, you had an opportunity to
come out and you could learn from people who have
done it. We had ages from eight all the way
(21:40):
up to eighty eight. There was a man there who
is eighty eight years old and he was like, I've
never done this. I have a bucket list where I
want to learn how to hunt. I want to get
a license. I want to take a year, and I
want to do it before I die. And he was
able to do it all within three weeks.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Wow, eight to eighty eight.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
So those are some of the things that I love.
And it sounds like that's kind of where your mind
is too, Like it's not just about bringing up kids.
Kids are great and it's awesome to do that, but
you really want to open up your doors and say,
if you have an interest, at least come and listen
and come and learn and then see if this is
a fit.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Definitely, and being a female in the industry doing that,
you know, I really support the women in the outdoors
projects that goes again for new hunters, but also they're
the ones that are usually in charge of that next
generation and choosing what summer camps they do, or what
programs they do or vacations that they go on, and
(22:36):
to be a part of that would be a huge impact.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Morgan, what an incredible explosion in the hunting industry is
women who have gotten involved in the outdoors.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
It is. It is amazing how quickly that it's almost
overnight sensation in the past few years of how much
it has.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Grown, you've probably had to deal with a little bit
of people come up to the booth a trade show
and they go, I'd love to meet your owner who
runs this place, And all of a sudden they look
over and they're like, Morgan, do you want to take
a staff at this? And they they're probably shocked to
see that there's a woman behind an actual plantation, a
working hunting outfit.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yes. Yes, and I've had a few encounters. You know,
you're always going to have somebody that has something to say.
But overall, I've had a great experience with it, and
I plan on to continue forward with it as long as.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I'm You must feel like a little bit of a
pat on the back, though, you know, when you get
to introduce yourself as the owner or the general manager,
whatever you say your title is to somebody who may
not realize that women are in those positions of power,
it is.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
It is, it sometimes can be. It's it.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
You definitely have to kind of prove yourself every now
and then. You know, somebody asked me not too long ago,
of you know, have you had any issues with that?
For the most part, no, But it does make you
have to work two times as hard because you have
to show, hey, I do know what I'm talking.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
About on this. So every now and then you run
into something.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Well, an issue is something that you can't fix. An
opportunity is what you're pretty much getting because even though
you have somebody who might question your ability or question
the fact that you're running something, you just look at
it as an opportunity. You strike me as the type
of person who's like, if you put an obstacle in
front of me, I'm going to figure out a way
to get over it.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Absolutely take a picture when I'm done.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
We've talked about the strengths of fishing or of hunting,
and we've talked about the fact that it's the people
that truly make it great. What's a weakness in the
hunting industry?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I would definitely say a weakness would be again kind
of goes back to some of that social media.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
I mean, it can be just as good as it
can be bad.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
A lot of people get the wrong image and a
bad rap on what that hunting industry is. And some people,
well there's no individuals in mind, but there's some people
that are to blame of thinking of it suggest for
that trophy harvest and that's what they're taking those pictures
of and showing they're not getting to hear the backstory
(25:14):
of what all goes into that, where that meat's going
after that, of everything it took to get to have
that trophy size animal. There's a lot more that goes
into it. It's not just about the harvest.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
I love that you bring that up because I run
a consulting firm for outfitters, professional hunters, professional fishermen, organizations
businesses that are all in the hunting and fishing out industry,
and one of the things that I teach them the
most is you need to know what content you're putting
out there. And I think one of the biggest weaknesses
(25:48):
that we have that you have, coupled with what you
said about social media, is how can we effectively show
what the hunting industry is through social media to where
people don't just see somebody sitting behind the rack, thinking
what else is going to happen with that animal? Why
would you do such a thing?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yes, to understand a little bit more of the reason
why that you're.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Going to do that.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
That's why I think some things like are guys over
at Meat Eater, I think they did a great job
when they came out with their show on Netflix, because
that was the first time that you saw a hunting
show breakthrough on a streaming platform and break through with
big numbers. But not only was he showing the hunt,
but he was showing the people behind the hunt. He
was showing the hunt itself. He was talking about the animals,
(26:35):
the impression that they leave upon the landscape, the predation
that exists that shouldn't naturally be there. I mean, you
and I could spend hours talking about coyotes and feral
hogs and all these things that probably run rampant in
the low country.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Definitely knock on wood. We're high enough ground that we
do not have any cogs on property. But I mean,
you can go twenty miles down the road and find
a state so keeping that hopefully that they stay away
from it.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
But you hear about this, You hear about this from
for other property owners that are like, when hogs get
in here, they absolutely destroy everything. And it's not just oh,
they ripped up some of my grass. They literally took
out about six to nine months of work for you
to get that product to where it was.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Definitely, and it's not that they're just affecting the animal
that you're going to try and hunt for. I mean,
you're talking about all kinds of species down to even
like your pollinators and things. If they're tearing up those grasses,
tearing up those plots, that's affecting the whole ecosystem, not
just what you're trying to go for a trophy harvest.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And I love that you bring that up because that's
another thing that we should be doing in the hunting world,
which is talking about the conservation of not just deer, turkey,
ducks in or wild populations that we have, but some
of the things that make the ecosystem so healthy.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I hear people try to argue against hunting coyotes, and
I'm like, they're not going for the eight year old buck,
They're not going for the five year old mature dough.
They're going for the fawn that can't protect itself. It's
an easy meal and they waste a lot of that animal.
And if we cut off the younger animals, we're not
(28:22):
going to have those older animals for those future generations
to not just hunt but bear witness to.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, and the deer is a major thing for that.
I mean, you hear about all the car wrecks. You
see them on the side of the road. I mean,
there's a lot of population things in studies and statistics
that go into all this. It's not just because I
think so. There's science behind it.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, there was a research study that was done a
couple of years ago, and I think the wild deer
population of white tailed deer in North America eclipse thirty
five million. Where really in nineteen oh four, right after
hunting was eliminated as a business practice and taking on
(29:06):
more of quotas managed and what we know as hunting
now with the Western model, we were down to three
million I think. I mean it was a crazy low number.
It may have been even lower than that, but that
goes to show that the Western model of conservation and
hunting really does protect more of these species than people
(29:29):
have ever seen.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
It definitely does.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
And I mean, I think two of the biggest industries
as far as hunting goes, you're talking about deer and duck.
I think are your two largest nities as far as
number wise, And that's two populations that are still tremendously strong.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
We had a guy in Alabama who reached out to
Safari Club International. They use sci a lot. So if
you know them for that, that's who they are. But
they are one of the only nonprofits, actually the only
nonprofit in the hunting world that has full time attorneys
that work for them in legal counsel. And he was
a guy that owned This is kind of reminiscent of
(30:08):
your story, but you have a plot of land that
is in your family. Well, he had a duck club
that was in his family for years, and it just
so happened that the property owner next door gifted part
of his property to the county to build a new
high school. So they were going to build in a
high school. Well where were they going to put it?
Right on the edge of this guy's duck club property.
(30:30):
So what ended up coming into play was the state saying, hey,
you can't have a duck club anymore, because now you'll
have guns within five hundred yards of a school and
that's banned. This guy had no idea what to do.
He's like, what am I going to do with this property?
So they reached out to all these different organizations who said,
(30:52):
can't do anything for you, don't we don't want to
get involved, blah blah blah. He reached out to sci
drafted a letter said you were going to disturb some
Indian burial grounds. You were going to disturb local populations
of bugs and birds and all these different species that
they're trying to protect that are native, And they ended
(31:14):
up shutting down the project on the school. This guy
gets to maintain his duck club. So it's great that
there are organizations that want to protect landowners like yourself,
just in case somebody decides to make a change that
could impact you.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Definitely, because it's not always just about the hunt. It's
really not for many aspects of it. But when you're
coming to talking about, you know, the influx of growth.
I mean even in our area, we've seen a big
push in like that coyote population, for where some of
these subdivisions are coming in south of US, towards the coast,
(31:49):
and they're pushing some of this population out and up,
and we've seen a big difference in it, and a
lot of surrounding areas have too. But it's important to
realize what you're disturbing there.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
And when you're talking about populations, you managed so many
different ones. You have a deer population, I'm sure you
have turkey in the low country, but you also have
a pretty heavy upland game. Are you guys running grouse
at all? Do you run quail or is it primarily pheasant?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So we are mostly quail, So we have Bob White
quail here. So something for South Carolina is it used
to be very large in its wild quail population and
then it really depleted over many years. And there's one
hundred different reasons of why that may be. But we've
on our property kind of developed some structure points to
(32:42):
where we've been able to grow some of that wild
population back, and a lot of other neighboring properties that
we've helped to influx that too, to where we're now
trying to get involved with some other organizations, say like
Quail Forever, to be able to bring some of their
people in and give us more information data on what's
best for us and all of our neighbors to do.
(33:05):
Since we're already seeing with what we've done that wild
population come back, I'm really excited to see where we
plan on going with it from here.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Are you guys tied in with the federal government and
the state governments of boosting the CRP that you have
and the different grasses that you have to keep those
populations growing.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
So we have some biologists and things that we work
with to try and work on that.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
So I've always been kind of enamored with the Babwei
quail population because, just like you were saying, a lot
of those used to be native to areas, but for
whatever reason, they have really depleted and diminished. But you're
starting to see a resurgence of that. Have you guys
been involved, you yourself personally with the reintroduction of these
quail back onto the grounds.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So we use a couple of different efforts, but a
lot of that is just providing the right type of
grounds for them to be able to do. You prescribe burns,
have food plots, have right escape cover. I mean, this
goes into the hunting side of it. But we're seeing
a huge impact on those birds that are able to
survive and to repopulate. I mean, we've had from our account,
(34:16):
we've had over twenty clutches and a clutch is you know,
a hatch of baby quail. But we've had over twenty
clutches that we've been able to just see personally just
for walking through the woods and during the summer, you're
not doing that every day. But they have even like
a recall whistle that they do, and whenever they do
(34:37):
this whistle, that means that they're still looking for a mate.
And we're talking of early July where we still had
a lot of these birds that were whistling and calling
back to each other, showing that they're still looking to
reproduce and a female so long as their nest is intact. Again,
it goes back to that structure, pork and what you
(34:58):
have for them to live in, they will I think
it's three times in a year that they'll have these
clutches and so it's an incredible amount that they can reproduce.
But it's something that's been damaged in the past and
we're very happy to see some growth back in it.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
So you're seeing strong numbers coming out of your reintroduction
of not just the birds that you guys bring in,
but now they're starting to continue on their legacies. Yes, absolutely,
that's incredible.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
And there's some of the wild population too. It's not
just what we're putting out, it's wild birds that were
originally here from who knows when.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
But those two have to mix. I mean, you know,
if you're if you're farming birds and taking birds and
placing birds, which you guys are part of that program.
Ultimately some of those birds become native, become wild because
they were supposed to be there anyway.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I would definitely think so, you know, there's a lot
of research that's gone into it, and I really think
it goes back to different areas kind of depending on
where you are in the country. I think it really
changes of what that narrative is, of what the results
are of that repopulation for place birds.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
We've talked about the strengths, the weaknesses, and some of
the opportunities that hunting has. What are the threats.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I don't think people think about what politics actually go
into this.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I know we touched a little bit on this earlier.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Of the lack of information that some of our legislature has.
I think it can hurt and a lot of people
need to realize of what really goes on in that
of how important it's the education of the hunting industry
is of showing the goods, showing the positive. You know,
that homestead life style has kind of come back to
(36:52):
show of what it's like to live off the land
and be able to promote that. And there are some
amazing organizations that support this. The Congressional Sportsman is one
of those. You know, they're a cock kind of based
for our legislature to be a part of and support.
But somebody that's close to here that lives nearby is
(37:16):
Chris Dorsey. So he's also a board member of that
Congressional Sportsman and part of a TV series that he produces.
But he does a great job at writing some articles
and putting on his show of kind of what's important
behind that and to be a part to be involved
in the politics isn't something that people usually want to do,
(37:38):
but it's an important.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Thing to do.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
People don't realize that the hunting issue is actually a
really bipartisan issue too, because I know most people categorize
it saying all hunting is only something Republicans like to do.
When you go to different parts of the country, you
know this being in West Virginia, you go to Kentucky,
and Kentucky is pretty much run by blue and Democratic
(38:02):
governors and Democratic people that are involved heavily in the
labor side of you know, farming and agriculture and all
those things, but they take a heavier stance on being
pro hunting than some of their counterparts do in different
parts of the country.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Isn't that funny how that works.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
We've experienced it some here too, of people that have
moved from up north down to the south to have
that warmer lifestyle. But they're still part of the hunting
industry and our major supporters of it.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
And we've got those people who want to leave, you know,
their busy lifestyles to go live the Yellowstone lifestyle, and
then they realize what actually goes into that. It's not
just putting on a hat and a Carhart jacket. It
takes a little more work and know how. But if
you allow yourself to be educated in what those lifestyles are,
(38:51):
you gain a much greater perspective on the world that
surrounds you.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
That's right, everybody wants to be a cowboy to it's
count of cowboy.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Well, thank you to Morgan Hilton for jumping on today.
If you guys want to book a trip to Almost
Heaven Plantation, it's easy. You can go to Almost Heavenplantation
dot com. You've been an absolute delight and very knowledgeable
in the hunting field, so I appreciate your.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Times at out of course, thank you for having me
on had a great guy.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Make sure you guys like to subscribe on the iHeart
Podcast network with lines and times. You can also find
you on Instagram, Facebook, and listeners
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