May 14, 2025 • 36 mins
Spencer Graves and Daniel Vasquez break down how the "Century Belt" doesn't mean nearly as much in Texas as it does anywhere else.
Pros are pros and shouldn't be fishing with other pros during the season.
How Jason Christie could make Paul Marks some money!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Lots to get to today on Lines and Times. I'm
Spencer Graves, that's Daniel Vasquez. This is a podcast where
we talk about hunting and fishing. We try to keep
it really informational for you. Give you a couple of
things to think about. We'd love for you to find
us all over social media, mister Spencer Graves, Daniel Vasquez
fishing and you guys can share your opinions on what
(00:28):
you hear. A couple things that I want to get
to today. The big one right off the rip is
I want to talk about the Century Belt bass Master.
For years, the Century Belt meant that you caught one
hundred pounds of fish in a four day tournament and average
twenty five pounds per day. Really tough for anglers to
do in any tournament setting.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I mean, there's only a couple of places that you
can do it.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
The problem that I'm having with the Century Belt is
I'm feeling like Texas is not a place where we
should be giving out the Century because last year, what
was it, the top ten all had over one hundred pounds.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
That's been the top ten two years in a row.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
This year at Lake four they all had over you know,
one hundred pounds. In fact, seth Fighter was one to
one point eight, Jay Shaker at one oh six point seven,
all the way up to Tucker Smith, who won the
event one hundred and twenty seven pounds point eight. So
ten guys are getting a century Belt. It just seems
(01:24):
like it's a little much. If Hackney had fished day
four instead of them cutting down to the ten, there's
a good chance he would have caught over twenty five pounds,
he would have had over one hundred. Patrick Walters at twelve,
there's a good chance he would have had over one
hundred at twenty five pounds.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
All the way down to the top twenty five guy,
you know. I mean, if they're able to fish the
fourth day, they're catching one hundred pounds.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So my big thing is should the Century Belt only
matter on lakes outside of Texas? And should Texas? When
they fished Texas, should they have to raise the number
to one hundred and twenty five pounds? It should one
hundred because if they do one hundred and a corner,
if they do one hundred and twenty five, it means
Tucker Smith and Paul Marx would have gotten at Trey
McKinney would have missed it by two pounds ten ounces
(02:08):
or so.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
But then at the same time, how do you take
that away from the guy that catches one hundred pounds?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
You know, well, it's easy because it's Texas. It's like
you're playing at a different venue. You know, the PGA
and golf. They play all different courses Summer seventy two,
summer seventy, summer seventy one.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
So like the Saint Lawrence, And because somebody got I
think people have been getting Century Belts at the Saint Lawrence, right.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I'm fine with multiple guys getting the Century Belt in
most tournaments, Like if you have one or two guys
to sack over one hundred pounds, I think if you
go with the top ten, they all get a century Belt.
It's a little ridiculous. Yeah, one or two seems feasible,
Like you can have a couple of guys have a
great day. But if you look at the top ten,
(02:49):
Tucker Smith at won twenty seven point eight, seth Fighter
in the tenth spot at one to one point eight,
there's a big difference there in that tournament.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It's just a belt. Though I don't think you don't
get any money.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So I'm not if you're gonna I don't care if
it's money, I don't care if it's something else. If
they're going to give you something and they're like, this
is a piece of you know, history, it should mean something.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It's almost one hundred pounds still mean something.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I get it. But in Texas lakes it's more prevalent.
It's easier for them to do.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I mean, the same thing would happen clearly California, you know,
but they don't fish clearly. Well, that's my point. So
it'd be a couple you'd have to like start saying
you can't just go to big best factories and go
out a century belt. That's not really fair either.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
They fish Lake Fork almost every year. Yeah, it's so
well known. It's like fishing Gunnersville. It's like fishing the
Saint Lawrence. It's like fishing all these lakes that they
always fish. If you're gonna fish Texas, so you're gonna
fish Lake Fork and you know, the big bags come
out of there. I don't see a problem in you
saying it's going to be one hundred and twenty five
pounds for you to be able to get a belt.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, but they wouldn't be like, Okay, well we're gonna
make the century belt now one hundred and twenty five pounds,
because then nobody will get a century belt anywhere else
besides Texas.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
That's why I'm saying you can't do it on every lake.
It's almost like you have to look at like look
at the Sabine River. Where they go the Sabine River,
they statistically are catching like twelve to fifteen inch fish.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
That's a sack, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
It's not like you're catching massive bags there. If you
got a century belt on the Sabine River, you're a king.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeahs impossible to fish.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
It's a big deal. If ten guys are getting a
century belt one tournament, it's almost like, oh, somebody could.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Get a century belt from like Champlain or something like
that at one hundred pounds, but they'd never be able
to do it at one hundred and twenty five.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So I'm interested to see whether or not that should
actually matter. If you go by a lake and you
know the output of what that lake has, I mean,
you can look at a lake and you should do this.
If you're a tournament fisherman, you should go back and
look at the weights over the last couple of years
and know, if I fish Lake X in May, it's
going to be x amount of weight that I need
(04:59):
to finish the top ten. Like you should believe that
kind of going on.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I believe that is true for the past. But now
with ford facing and how the weights are just bigger
in every lake just period, I think you're just going
to continue to see the weights go up.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Do you think it's just ford facing though, because everybody
talked about that in this and they said, well Lugas
seth fighter, he wasn't using it. He got over one
hundred pounds.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Well that's why. I mean, it's also about lakes fishing
really well at one time or another. You know, obviously
Texas is fishing really really well right now.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Is that these that the management I would assume this probably.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
The management has to be this is I mean, you
can only point the finger out one thing. They do
such a good job over there, you know, and then
California does too. They manage big bass factors.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
So I would be interested to have bass go out
to California maybe every once in a while, maybe even
every three seasons or so. Yeah, to give representation to
the West Coast because just like you mentioned Clear Lake,
there are some bodies of water out there that it
would be fun. And it would also give bass fishing
(05:59):
a different look because the majority of guys that fish
in the elites don't fish California.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, yeah, I would be pretty sweet. I was watching
some of the old stuff on them on clear Lake.
It was so cool, and that one bass I was
just there. Those guys smashed them. I think they were like,
I think they were like twenty pounds over thirty or
twenty bags are thirty pounds, So.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
It's insane.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
That would be fun for the recreational fisherman who likes
doing occasional tournaments to be able to watch bass Master
and MLF and all these professional tours are always trying
to find different ways. One of the big reasons why
they don't go to California is the cost. Yeah, they
cost them crazy amounts of money to bring all their
assets out there, to have their people out.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Well, and the cities pay them to but not every
not every city.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Like hey, Sabine pays a lot of money for them
to go there, because why would they go there? Right, Well,
like Gunnersville, Lake Fork, places like that, they probably don't
pay out as much money.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Well, I think to get bass there. Yeah, you're right, Spencer.
I think another thing like with the Sabine, which is
a really good example. I think I remember hearing somebody
say it's the way where the sabine is located that
it draws in a ton of fishermen there to go
see that event.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I mean, even though it's not a big best factor.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
When you look at a lot of like the outdoor stuff,
there's a reason why so many outdoor conventions and festivals
go to Nashville because everybody knows this. If you're running
a convention or you're putting on an event Nashville, in
about two to three hours around it, you will grab
(07:33):
over eighty percent of the hunting and fishing license sold
in America.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, I believe it.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Because the Southeast is such a powerhouse for the outdoors.
Which is one big reason why states like Alabama, Georgia,
Louisiana really those states have such good waterways is there
are a lot of recreational fishermen. There's a reason why
you hear about a lot of hunting because there's so
many opportunities for people to get outdoors. They're not idiots,
(08:00):
like they know where they need to go. Yeah, well,
we're talking about changes in bass Master. We're changing, or
we're talking about the differences of fishing places like Lake
Fork compared to other places. I was watching Buddy Gross,
who led the event. On day one he at over
thirty three pounds, and on day two he went back
(08:21):
to the spot where he was absolutely smashing him. And
if you aren't in tune with how bass Master on
Lake Fork works, the Texas Department of Wildlife requires anglers
to catch way and release boat side, just like they
do a Major League fishing But if a fish is
over a certain length, you're able to put that in
a live well and bring it to weigh in. Because
(08:42):
that is the most exciting part as a viewer to
be able to watch is you want to see fish
catches and you want to see what that lake is producing.
Tucker Smith was able to bring a couple. Jay Shakurat
brought an absolute stud to the scales over the four days.
But your Buddy Gross, and he mentioned that his style
(09:03):
of fishing did not bode well for what they had
to do with ketchway and release because he felt like
I was going after the same fish that I already caught.
And his point was I can cast to them and
they may want to eat again, but because I stung
them with that cold steel, it's gonna make it a
lot harder for me to catch. That could actually played
(09:24):
out to be true, because day one he had thirty
three pounds. The next couple of days he faltered. He
finished forty first in the tournament.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I could see that there's certain schools of fish that
probably won't fire again, So you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
In that case, you have to have multiple spots, plenty
of places where you can go.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
You can't just be relying on one on one.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
So that changes the game plan for anglers when they
go to a place like Lake Fork. If you're going
to be in a tournament.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
That's somebody who fishes like you. How would that change
your game plan?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I would I probably have the same strategy as tuckered me. Honest.
I'd run as many of those points in side skin
as many as I could and then come through. I
would have I probably wouldn't have thrown a minto because
you know my style. At first, I probably would have
been dragging a big crank bait around. Lets you care it.
But that's the deal there. You know, it's been it's
historically been the deal cranking there. Uh, you using your
(10:13):
forward facing flicking mentos around as a new thing, but
it used to be big worms, big crank baits and
drag them one bottom and find those hard spots. And
you know, if you look back, like you're seeing Garrett.
When Garrett won a century about Yeah, during the Texas Fest,
we just had him on. He won cranking or hit
almost one cranking. He lost to Brandon Cob This lake
(10:38):
Cobb with shallow.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
It showed out so many different styles and techniques that
you can do and you can be successful.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah, was flipping and I mean his baits would barely
hit the water and they would get sucked up. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
It's crazy too because Seth I was hearing another guy
say that Seth and Hackney probably fished the best that
you could probably fish shallow, and they still weren't even
close to winning. Yeah, which is crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Was that person making the relationship between ford facing and
not ford facing?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
That's exactly right. I'm getting tired of it, to be honest.
I like seeing big weights. You know, you're just gonna
have to blend with it and like someone like Tucker,
you know what I mean, you have to side scan
those likes. It's not just about ford facing. You still
have to find the spots. You still have to find
the schools that are willing to fire.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
It's not easy.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
It's like being in construction. If you have the tools,
you got to use them for a specific part of
the job exactly. You know Lake Fork. Yeah, while those
guys are using ford facing sonar, it wasn't them just
sitting there shaking a minnow.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Like.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Some of the guys were using suspending jerk baits. Other
guys were using soft jerk baits. While they're watching it happen.
The biggest part that's missing for the for the average
person watching is they want the explanation of what you're doing.
What you used to make bass Master awesome? Is bass
Master when they would go live with Hank Parker or
(12:00):
they would go live with Ikenelly or Swindle back in
the day, is while they were fishing, the method that
they were doing, they would share with you different things
that they would do. It's kind of like when you
watch these guys YouTube channels now. Jason Christi Ikenelly, Scott Martin,
anybody who's really got a big powerhouse YouTube. They go
(12:22):
into detail about what they like to do. But they
used to do that on the water. Now they all
have their own platforms where they can do that.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, it is interesting because if you watch the old
bass Masters, they're fun to watch because they have like
the old three D topography maps that they're showing you
at the same time. And Yeah, Jerry mckinness did an
outstanding job.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
When bass Master was owned by ESPN. It was probably
the best production they possibly had because they had access
to a graphics department that not everybody has. As I've
watched now, I do feel like bass is kind of
reaching a little bit to try to figure out what's
gonna work. You know. I love everybody that works at
(13:02):
bass I think they're great people, but there are a
lot of things that I'm like, we're getting away from
what we want. We want to see more on the
water coverage, which now means you have to increase the
amount of cameras that you have. Yeah, and you know
this from running around on different tournaments. It's really hard
to find boats to run cameras.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
It is, it really is, which you think would be
the opposite. You think a lot of people will be
willing to run around out there, but it's I guess
it's not.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Nascar went through the same problem over the last ten
years where they're having trouble growing the sport. Now they're
on a real upward push. I think bass is going
to get there.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
They will.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And I say bass not just bass Master. I'm talking
about MLF and I think right now, yeah, just fishing
in general. I think right now, what you have is
you have two major organizations who have two different styles,
but they complement one another because each one can look
at what the other is doing well and then try
(13:56):
to figure out how they can exactly exact.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You need competition and editors and different you know, trails
and stuff like that to build to keep everything interesting
to stay on.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Still, we've been talking a little bit about some of
the tournaments that have been happening in bass Master. Most recently,
we just wrapped up Lake Fork. The guys are heading
to Sabine River if you're just listening to this now.
But even before that, we had a tournament where Paul
Marx won his first Blue trophy. Paul Marx incredible angler
(14:29):
out of Lake Lanier in Georgia. He dominated on Lake Hartwell.
He's done a lot of fishing on Lake Hartwell, knows
a lot about the lake, knows a ton about the
brush piles, how to fish them, what works well. And
he really showcased his skills. And then he backed it
up when they went to Lake Fork because he was
leading for some of the tournament and then ultimately finished
(14:50):
second to Tucker Smith, a guy that he's become really
good friends with. They travel together, they've known each other
coming up with the opens, and they they've obviously spent
a lot of time together. You had a couple of questions,
though it.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
May have been Ike Andelly actually that said on one
of his podcasts that he didn't think it was right
that guys are able to practice together like they're like
they're traveling together, living in the same households, you know,
relaying information and you know, and fishing in groups. Shall
I say, because it's not just Paul and Tucker, there's
a whole bunch of guys that do it.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Is he saying that because it would go against the
information rule the bass masters? I mean it has to
be I don't think the information rule, says that you
can't discuss with fellow competitors.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Well, that's what I mean. I think that now with
the way with that bass fishing is you know, I've
just I think it should be an individual sport. You
shouldn't be able to still, you know, converse with your
fellow anglers or competitors anymore. I think with the way
fishing is getting and the you know, if you see
how tense it is in the world with the guys
(15:51):
that are veterans and the guys that are now, it
just seems like that's another thing that they're complaining about
and they're starting to grow.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
So you think it needs to be one hundred percent solitario.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I think it needs to be solitary. I think bass
fishing needs to be an individual sport.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Okay, so let's say that two guys want to travel
together cut the costs because they don't want to spend
I mean, look, bass fishing is expensive because you only
get paid if you win. It's true, you don't get
paid any other way.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
It's true. But those guys got big.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Sponsors and some guys don't. Yeah, so let's take Scott Martin,
Scott Canterbury, Matt Airy, those guys have been traveling together
for a while. There are times, especially given in the
twenty twenty five season when Scott Martin was linked to
the cheating scandal at Lake o Kachobe. There was a
(16:43):
moment in that tournament where Scott Canterbury was in the
top ten. Yeah, and Scott Canterbury is not always in
the top ten, I.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Know, and he was in the same spots as he
was because if you watch Scott's YouTube videos, he's like
you catching him? Here are you doing that? I just
think that I don't think you should be able to
do that as a bass fishing competitor.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I don't disagree with you, but I do think that
there is some there is some benefit to having guys
in groups talk about what they're doing on the lake
because that will help the competition for the parent organization.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, I think it will to the point where you'll
see the same guys winning every single time.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Because we also we also don't know that to be true,
because right now you just had Paul Marks win Heartwell,
you have Tucker Smith finish number one on Lake Fork
Paul was second. Do we think that run will continue?
And if it does, that will raise eyebrows.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Well, I don't know. It's they also both made the
Elite Series the same year.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Right, But what I mean, and they could also say
that about the other eight guys.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
That's my point. That's my point.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
You're saying because I think.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I think. I think when you get to a certain
level and you're so good and you're so much better
than the average angler, and you're out there competing, ultimately
you guys are teaming up and competing against everybody else.
I don't think that should be allowed. I mean, look
at Jacob Wheeler, Dustin Connell, Mark Daniels, Adrian they're always
competitive because they have two of the best fishermen in
(18:13):
the world traveling with them.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Okay, I don't think that should be Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Exactly, exactly exactly. It's just gonna happen. You're gonna see
where your friends are. It's gonna happen. I remember, it's hard.
No fishermen's ever gonna come out and be like, no,
we don't get him for me because they're winning every tournament.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, but we've heard guys say that to us. We've
heard guys say to us. That's my point.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That's my point, that's my point. Every fisherman lies, so
you know, so you gotta you gotta freaking think about
the reality of the situation and guys traveling together. I
can see I Canelly's point. I don't think it's fair,
you know what I mean, because then you do have
guys that, you know, maybe didn't learn forward facing as
well as the next guy, but then their friend knows
(18:54):
it really well and they jump on their boat for
a day fun fishing, and next thing you know, they're
one of the best at doing it too.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
The gas Master's press release that they sent out last
year when they brought up the no information rule, which,
by the way, I'll go back and I'll continue to say,
anglers asked for this. This wasn't bass Master coming down.
This was do you guys want this? And some guys
said yes. I think that has bit a lot of
guys in the ass.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
By the way, but listen to this Spencer. Think about
this Tucker, whatever Tucker has I've been telling you, this
is gold. Whoever this kid fishes with ends up being
a champion. He's traveled with Paul, Paul's a champion. He
fished with Hayden, Hayden's a champion, and now he's a champion,
so he just which is weird.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
But he.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
And his mentor is still Aaron Martin's correct, who taught
him out of side scan all these things, and he
picked up all those things. So whoever this kid touches
is always gold.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It's insane. All right, Let's go over what the no
information rule says per bass Master on their website. To
be clear, effective immediately, both Elite Anglers and e Q
angler are prohibited from getting outside information on elite venues,
meaning the lakes that they fish on the elite schedule.
(20:09):
Outside information. What's considered outside information. Your fellow anglers are
inside the tournament.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I know you don't like it, but I'm just saying,
based on this outside information is Tucker calling me and
asking me.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
But they would never do that. That's not the point
where they get information, though, Spencer. They're not like calling
them being like give me all the spots. They're not
doing that. The way that they get information is they
go fun fishing one day and they hop on the
boat and he teaches them how to side scan and
learn how he's doing it, you know, I mean, or
vice versa. You know, Kevin, you hop in Kevin Van
Dam's boat and he teaches you exactly how to throw
the spinner bait over the log and then you become
(20:48):
the best spinner bait fisherman in the world. That's what
that's the information they get. They're not getting spots or lures.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Okay, So you're saying that outside information is just learning
from somebody else.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
As at the elite level, they're so good there's only
minute differences that differentiate the really, really good guys from
the guys that just kind of win.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, but I disagree a little bit because let's just
take let's take the Kevin van Dam thing. If if
I was an Elite Series angler and I called Kevin
van Dam and I said, hey, man, I'm gonna be
in Michigan. I want to go deep cranking with you.
And he's like, okay, we're not fishing a lake that's
on the Elite Series schedule for that year even the
next year, and we fish, and all of a sudden,
(21:31):
I'm learning some things about deep cranking, like I'll make
sure you pause if you're not hitting anything, or make
sure you try to switch up the variation of the
crank bait to give the fish don't just do a
straight retrieve. Okay, if Kevin is giving me all these things,
then three years from now we end up fishing that
lake around the same exact time. I'm not really outside
(21:51):
my bounds for wanting to go fish with Kevin Van
dam No.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
No, But did Kevin still teach you something that you
may not have known before?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Angle YouTube channel?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
No. No, they don't give all their secrets away on
their YouTube chance.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I'm not saying that they give away all their secrets,
but what I'm saying is, I don't think you can
hold somebody that is learning a technique from somebody unless
it impacts a lake that you already know you're gonna
be fishing.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I think I agree to that at a certain level
of fishing. But when it comes to the Elite Series guys,
there should be I don't think you should ever be
seeing Elite Series guys and other Elite Series guys boats.
I think there should be during the season, you know
what I mean, during the season. I don't think that
should be allowed during off season. They can go fun
fish whenever they want, you know, and go do whatever
(22:35):
they want on their spare time, get together, have a
great but during the elite season. There shouldn't be an
off day when Jacob Prosnik is hopping in the boat
with who knows, Shane Powell, I don't know who, whatever
guy's name, you know what I mean and learning something.
I don't think that should be allowed because at that point,
(22:56):
you're not you know what you're doing. You know what
I mean? You know your game is weak in a way,
and you're trying to gain a competitive edge. You're still
trying to gain a competitive ed.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
But let's go with another Let's go with another sport.
In the off season, NFL players work out together. They
might not be on the same team. It's just a
you're a quarterback and I've seen this happen with they're
trying to gain a what but what's wrong with that?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
But what are they trying to do?
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Though? They're trying to get better and trying to gain
a competitive edge, But they're not because they're not gaining
a competitive edge on the waterway that they're fishing.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
But so you're telling me right now, if I were
to go with the best forward facing SO ANDAR person
in the world on Logan Martin Tomorrow, yes or Lake X,
Let's say, yeah, you can say that, and uh, they
teach me exactly how to flick my minno over the
spotted bass to get every single big one to fire
in the school. You don't think I'll be able to
take that to any other lake and be able to
(23:49):
do the same exact way.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I think you will. But I don't think that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
But what are you gaining when by learning that from
some gaining, you're gaining an education a competitive edge. But
that should be allowed only at certain levels. When you're
at a certainly at the Elite Series, guys, like I said,
during the season, they should not be jumping in other
guys boats on fun off days to go fishing. I
just don't think it's right.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
So to be simplistic about it, as soon as you
become a bass.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Master early you have to hold yourself to a higher standard.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
You never fish with another human being.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
No, you can, you can, but not other Elite Series anglers.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
You can't fish with a current Elite Series angler or
a former Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I think during the season, tournament season, during the off season,
during the off season, do what you want, because who
knows if you're gonna fish next season.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Well that's my point. Yeah, my point is I think
that you should be able to go out and get
education from wherever. Yes, as long as it's not impacting
what's happening that season that.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Season, right, So if you if you go out during
the off season, it's completely different because you're, like you said,
you're honing your skills. But during the season, things can
change a lot. During the season where you could pick
up on little mind did things that you didn't even
think about. But this guy clues you in on some
fun fishing lake one day, and then you end up
firing the rest of the season and just absolutely demolishing.
(25:09):
And that's where I think a lot of these guys,
these veterans are getting really upset about these guys traveling together.
I think it's not only because they necessarily give themselves information,
but they they're learning everything from each other. And when
you're really really good at something, everybody wants a piece
(25:29):
of it. And if you can't give it out, you're
giving it out to certain people, and they're picking up
on the details, like Paul Wah Tucker, Like Tucker's not
giving everybody his little intrinsic details on how he goes
and finds these fish. He doesn't do that but guess what,
Paul's fisher them sees how he does it. He showed
him how to do it, and now he knows how
to do the same thing, So now he knows those
little details. Look to you think Paul's gonna go tell
(25:52):
Emil Wagner the same thing. Absolutely not, you know what
I mean. But there's obviously a certain trust level that
these guys get to where they kind of clue each
other in on the details that make the cheers.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
We've been talking about competitive advantages in fishing. We've been
talking about the information rule. This has been talked about
quite a bit. I'm gonna throw something your way, Daniel,
and I just want to gain your perspective on this
because we've heard this in several conversations about the no
information rule, DOC talk being around conversations about bodies of
(26:32):
water that you're on. We both believe that if you
hear doc talk, that is gaining a competitive advantage, whether
you seek it out or not, if you're hearing it,
you're getting information. You can't turn your ears off. You
just have to tell guys, hey, look, can't talk about this.
What about the most recent incident with Scott Martin where
(26:56):
he was talking to somebody and gaining information about lakes
in the area that are similar, So he's not getting
information about the specific body of water. So it's a
gray area because everyone who tournament fishes knows if you're
going to fish a body of water, but you're gonna
ask about lakes that are similar in the area, You're
(27:17):
not talking about the exact one. You're just skirting the issue.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
That's exactly right. Yeah, you are skirting the issue. That's
that great area that we're going back to again with
the leak. Guy's fishing to get on the off days,
the lakes that are around. It's the same thing.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I agree, literally, I agree. That's why I when I
heard the Scott Martin stuff come out, I sat there
and I was like, we all know what's being done here.
I mean, all of us have heard the rumors of
how guys cheat, how they get it done, and then
we've seen, you know, blatant people cheat in much lower
tournament trails and just single tournaments. I mean from guys
(27:53):
having their wives bring them fish in a cooler. The
reason why you don't do trailer weigh ins at a
lot of places, hollowing out the bottom of a pontoon
boat and stacking fish in there go getting a basket
like it's it's wild to me the lengths that guys
will go to win, especially dudes that want to win
like a random Tuesday or Wednesday night or Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Strange to me.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
It's an ego thing, right, Yeah, Like you go into
the ramp the next day and saying I won Tuesday night,
it's like two hundred and bucks, Like excited you caught
three fish for eleven pounds.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I love those tournaments, but if you're gonna have to
cheat in those tournaments, it tells me a lot more
about who you are. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you
when it comes down to gaining a competitive advantage. Where
I think you and I were having the conversation that
I just want to make abundantly clear. I don't think
guys in the off season, when the tournament schedule's over,
going to fish with another Elite Series pro that's current
(28:50):
or a former Elite Series pro or really a former
pro in general, and you want to learn how to
fish that technique and get better. I don't see that
as a problem.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
The main reason though, is if I want to get
better at frog fishing, and I called Dean Rojas and say, hey,
I want to go frog fishing with you. The tournament
season's over. I don't know what the new schedule is,
but I know that I need to get better at this.
There shouldn't be a problem with that.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I think you need to get better on your own.
You need to put the time in the but you
also do it yourself. You also have to learn from people,
like every time there's YouTube, every time you and I
go out and fish, I learned from you. Yeah, well
what if I what if let's just say you and
I are both Elite Series anglers, all right, both of us.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
All right, let's just hypothetically.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Because there's just hypothetically speaking, we're both elitet series anglers.
All right. You said, and you give me credit that
I'm a better fisherman. Would you be learning a ton
from me every single day as an elite serious guy?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
This is my point. I don't think that I would learn.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
I would at the level you're at right now, at
the level I'm at right now, if you were, if
we were.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Just so happened to be Elite series guys together. But
there's just Spencer Spencer hypothetically speaking, Okay, you'd be learning right,
it would make you a better fisherman.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yes, of course it will.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
That's that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
But does that mean that you and I could never
fish together?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I think when you get to the Elite Series during
the season, you should not be They need to install
a role where they should not be able to fish.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
That's in the season I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
When it's not you, no fish of the season, Go
have a ball, drink Brisky's drop shots.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
That's gonna be a problem. All right, Let's break down
the team's thing. Because I know a lot of guys
like to travel with other dudes, and they say that
they don't have conversations about where they're going. Obviously, when
you watch things on TV, you can start to piece
together that things are not as they seem. People traveling together,
(30:55):
staying together, sharing Airbnbs, getting four campground spaces around one another.
There's no problem with that. The issue is whether or
not the guys are talking.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah, ultimately, yeah, So do.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
You believe that the guys are sitting down and they're saying,
let's just not talk about fishing, Let's talk about something else.
Let's go play golf on a day before we can practice.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Listen, winners hang with winners, right, So if you're hanging
with a winner, you're gonna be a winner. How do
you think you just miraculously become a winner. You gain
the attributes of the winner.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
But that's not always entirely just. But we've watched we've
watched bass phishing events where guys who travel together, hang
out together, room together are not finishing one in two
or six and seven.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
That's because those guys don't have the it factor. They
don't have they don't have what it takes. But still
at the same time, it doesn't make it right.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So we're just looking at the most recent tournament on
paper Lake FOURK and knowing at Paul Marx as a stud.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
It's everybody. It's not just them.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
It's not just them.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I'm telling you. It's like the last the last two
rookie classes are probably the best fishermen that have come
out of bass Master for a long time. But that's
where that's where you can't take that away from them
as well either.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
But that's where sports go. Like Michael Jordan has always
said that he's not the greatest of all time, because
he never got to match up against the other guys
that were considered the greatest of all time. You could
be great for a decade. If you're lucky enough, you
could be a great You could be great for a
couple decades, right, but you're pretty much given a ten
to twelve year run in a lot of things. We'll
(32:40):
get van Dam. Van Dam was a powerhouse in a decade.
So it's it's kind of like when you have the
opportunity to be the guy or be the girl and
you are dominating, you better just take it and you
better just run with it. Yeah, but after that, you
just go back to being in everyday dude, because someone
(33:02):
is coming for you and they're gaining more information and
they have more knowledge that they can now apply because
the new information rule says you can't get outside information,
but you can't get information from things that are publicly available,
which is social mediatube, YouTube and everything else.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah, I don't know. Just my two cents.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
I want to give Paul Marx a lot of love
because it's incredible that he was able to win on
lake Hartwell, he did an awesome job. I thought it
was hilarious that Jason Christie put out a post. It
must have been an auto correct. I don't know if
he has a lot of friends in a Paul, but
he said, I want to say congratulations to Phil Marx
fil Marks. I think it's the most I think it's
the best thing in the world. And the reason why
(33:43):
is whether Jason meant to say film Marks or it
auto corrected to Phil Marks instead of Paul Marx. I
want Paul to develop t shirts to say I'm Phil Marks,
because that's the kind of thing that makes fans.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, because it gets funny.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, you know, yeah, you're Tucker. When he won on
Lake Fork, Rick Klun, I know, we just talked about
goats and all that. Rick Klun is right. He gave
props to Tucker, even included Aaron Martin's in the conversation
because of how Tucker came up. That has to be
(34:20):
for Tucker the most amazing thing that's ever happened.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Things like that don't happen with Aaron winning the Mother's
Day Dude, that's that was meant to be.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Isn't that wild?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Was meant to be?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yea he wins in Mother's Day? His mom was there.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
That realm in life, the spirit world, is a real thing, dude,
it really is.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
That just goes to show this didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
That just goes to show you that's a thing.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
I'm just loving how this new class of rookies that
are coming into professional fishing. I love what they're able
to do. And I love what the sophomore guys that
were rookies last year. I love what they're still crushing
it because you are now seeing the new breed. This
is the change of the guard when it comes to fishing,
(35:02):
and there are some dudes who are veterans who are
absolute studs and can still do it. Hackney, you know
how much I like Hackney. Yeah, I just think he's
a phenomenal human being. He's a great fisherman. He won
an event on the MPFL this year, and he battled
like crazy in the last couple. You look at the
Angler of the year, it's cool to see some of
the names that are there.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
But it's also a moment in time where if you're
a fan of professional fishing, you better start looking around, yep,
because these new names that are coming up in the
names that are going to potentially come in next year
with that class, those are going to be the battles
that you're going to see for the next ten to
fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, keep your eye on Fisher and I I'm calling
it right now. He will win. If he makes the elites,
he'll win Rookie of the Year next week.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
We'll put my ass in the AVT. So I completely
understand that. All right. Thank you so much for listening
to lines and times. Don't forget to like and subscribe.
We appreciate you guys being here on the iHeart podcast
network of the
Lots to get to today on Lines and Times. I'm
Spencer Graves, that's Daniel Vasquez. This is a podcast where
we talk about hunting and fishing. We try to keep
it really informational for you. Give you a couple of
things to think about. We'd love for you to find
us all over social media, mister Spencer Graves, Daniel Vasquez
fishing and you guys can share your opinions on what
(00:28):
you hear. A couple things that I want to get
to today. The big one right off the rip is
I want to talk about the Century Belt bass Master.
For years, the Century Belt meant that you caught one
hundred pounds of fish in a four day tournament and average
twenty five pounds per day. Really tough for anglers to
do in any tournament setting.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I mean, there's only a couple of places that you
can do it.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
The problem that I'm having with the Century Belt is
I'm feeling like Texas is not a place where we
should be giving out the Century because last year, what
was it, the top ten all had over one hundred pounds.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
That's been the top ten two years in a row.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
This year at Lake four they all had over you know,
one hundred pounds. In fact, seth Fighter was one to
one point eight, Jay Shaker at one oh six point seven,
all the way up to Tucker Smith, who won the
event one hundred and twenty seven pounds point eight. So
ten guys are getting a century Belt. It just seems
(01:24):
like it's a little much. If Hackney had fished day
four instead of them cutting down to the ten, there's
a good chance he would have caught over twenty five pounds,
he would have had over one hundred. Patrick Walters at twelve,
there's a good chance he would have had over one
hundred at twenty five pounds.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
All the way down to the top twenty five guy,
you know. I mean, if they're able to fish the
fourth day, they're catching one hundred pounds.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So my big thing is should the Century Belt only
matter on lakes outside of Texas? And should Texas? When
they fished Texas, should they have to raise the number
to one hundred and twenty five pounds? It should one
hundred because if they do one hundred and a corner,
if they do one hundred and twenty five, it means
Tucker Smith and Paul Marx would have gotten at Trey
McKinney would have missed it by two pounds ten ounces
(02:08):
or so.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
But then at the same time, how do you take
that away from the guy that catches one hundred pounds?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
You know, well, it's easy because it's Texas. It's like
you're playing at a different venue. You know, the PGA
and golf. They play all different courses Summer seventy two,
summer seventy, summer seventy one.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
So like the Saint Lawrence, And because somebody got I
think people have been getting Century Belts at the Saint Lawrence, right.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I'm fine with multiple guys getting the Century Belt in
most tournaments, Like if you have one or two guys
to sack over one hundred pounds, I think if you
go with the top ten, they all get a century Belt.
It's a little ridiculous. Yeah, one or two seems feasible,
Like you can have a couple of guys have a
great day. But if you look at the top ten,
(02:49):
Tucker Smith at won twenty seven point eight, seth Fighter
in the tenth spot at one to one point eight,
there's a big difference there in that tournament.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It's just a belt. Though I don't think you don't
get any money.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So I'm not if you're gonna I don't care if
it's money, I don't care if it's something else. If
they're going to give you something and they're like, this
is a piece of you know, history, it should mean something.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It's almost one hundred pounds still mean something.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I get it. But in Texas lakes it's more prevalent.
It's easier for them to do.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I mean, the same thing would happen clearly California, you know,
but they don't fish clearly. Well, that's my point. So
it'd be a couple you'd have to like start saying
you can't just go to big best factories and go
out a century belt. That's not really fair either.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
They fish Lake Fork almost every year. Yeah, it's so
well known. It's like fishing Gunnersville. It's like fishing the
Saint Lawrence. It's like fishing all these lakes that they
always fish. If you're gonna fish Texas, so you're gonna
fish Lake Fork and you know, the big bags come
out of there. I don't see a problem in you
saying it's going to be one hundred and twenty five
pounds for you to be able to get a belt.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, but they wouldn't be like, Okay, well we're gonna
make the century belt now one hundred and twenty five pounds,
because then nobody will get a century belt anywhere else
besides Texas.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
That's why I'm saying you can't do it on every lake.
It's almost like you have to look at like look
at the Sabine River. Where they go the Sabine River,
they statistically are catching like twelve to fifteen inch fish.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
That's a sack, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
It's not like you're catching massive bags there. If you
got a century belt on the Sabine River, you're a king.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeahs impossible to fish.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
It's a big deal. If ten guys are getting a
century belt one tournament, it's almost like, oh, somebody could.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Get a century belt from like Champlain or something like
that at one hundred pounds, but they'd never be able
to do it at one hundred and twenty five.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So I'm interested to see whether or not that should
actually matter. If you go by a lake and you
know the output of what that lake has, I mean,
you can look at a lake and you should do this.
If you're a tournament fisherman, you should go back and
look at the weights over the last couple of years
and know, if I fish Lake X in May, it's
going to be x amount of weight that I need
(04:59):
to finish the top ten. Like you should believe that
kind of going on.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I believe that is true for the past. But now
with ford facing and how the weights are just bigger
in every lake just period, I think you're just going
to continue to see the weights go up.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Do you think it's just ford facing though, because everybody
talked about that in this and they said, well Lugas
seth fighter, he wasn't using it. He got over one
hundred pounds.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Well that's why. I mean, it's also about lakes fishing
really well at one time or another. You know, obviously
Texas is fishing really really well right now.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Is that these that the management I would assume this probably.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
The management has to be this is I mean, you
can only point the finger out one thing. They do
such a good job over there, you know, and then
California does too. They manage big bass factors.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
So I would be interested to have bass go out
to California maybe every once in a while, maybe even
every three seasons or so. Yeah, to give representation to
the West Coast because just like you mentioned Clear Lake,
there are some bodies of water out there that it
would be fun. And it would also give bass fishing
(05:59):
a different look because the majority of guys that fish
in the elites don't fish California.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, yeah, I would be pretty sweet. I was watching
some of the old stuff on them on clear Lake.
It was so cool, and that one bass I was
just there. Those guys smashed them. I think they were like,
I think they were like twenty pounds over thirty or
twenty bags are thirty pounds, So.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
It's insane.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
That would be fun for the recreational fisherman who likes
doing occasional tournaments to be able to watch bass Master
and MLF and all these professional tours are always trying
to find different ways. One of the big reasons why
they don't go to California is the cost. Yeah, they
cost them crazy amounts of money to bring all their
assets out there, to have their people out.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Well, and the cities pay them to but not every
not every city.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Like hey, Sabine pays a lot of money for them
to go there, because why would they go there? Right, Well,
like Gunnersville, Lake Fork, places like that, they probably don't
pay out as much money.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Well, I think to get bass there. Yeah, you're right, Spencer.
I think another thing like with the Sabine, which is
a really good example. I think I remember hearing somebody
say it's the way where the sabine is located that
it draws in a ton of fishermen there to go
see that event.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I mean, even though it's not a big best factor.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
When you look at a lot of like the outdoor stuff,
there's a reason why so many outdoor conventions and festivals
go to Nashville because everybody knows this. If you're running
a convention or you're putting on an event Nashville, in
about two to three hours around it, you will grab
(07:33):
over eighty percent of the hunting and fishing license sold
in America.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, I believe it.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Because the Southeast is such a powerhouse for the outdoors.
Which is one big reason why states like Alabama, Georgia,
Louisiana really those states have such good waterways is there
are a lot of recreational fishermen. There's a reason why
you hear about a lot of hunting because there's so
many opportunities for people to get outdoors. They're not idiots,
(08:00):
like they know where they need to go. Yeah, well,
we're talking about changes in bass Master. We're changing, or
we're talking about the differences of fishing places like Lake
Fork compared to other places. I was watching Buddy Gross,
who led the event. On day one he at over
thirty three pounds, and on day two he went back
(08:21):
to the spot where he was absolutely smashing him. And
if you aren't in tune with how bass Master on
Lake Fork works, the Texas Department of Wildlife requires anglers
to catch way and release boat side, just like they
do a Major League fishing But if a fish is
over a certain length, you're able to put that in
a live well and bring it to weigh in. Because
(08:42):
that is the most exciting part as a viewer to
be able to watch is you want to see fish
catches and you want to see what that lake is producing.
Tucker Smith was able to bring a couple. Jay Shakurat
brought an absolute stud to the scales over the four days.
But your Buddy Gross, and he mentioned that his style
(09:03):
of fishing did not bode well for what they had
to do with ketchway and release because he felt like
I was going after the same fish that I already caught.
And his point was I can cast to them and
they may want to eat again, but because I stung
them with that cold steel, it's gonna make it a
lot harder for me to catch. That could actually played
(09:24):
out to be true, because day one he had thirty
three pounds. The next couple of days he faltered. He
finished forty first in the tournament.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I could see that there's certain schools of fish that
probably won't fire again, So you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
In that case, you have to have multiple spots, plenty
of places where you can go.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
You can't just be relying on one on one.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
So that changes the game plan for anglers when they
go to a place like Lake Fork. If you're going
to be in a tournament.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
That's somebody who fishes like you. How would that change
your game plan?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I would I probably have the same strategy as tuckered me. Honest.
I'd run as many of those points in side skin
as many as I could and then come through. I
would have I probably wouldn't have thrown a minto because
you know my style. At first, I probably would have
been dragging a big crank bait around. Lets you care it.
But that's the deal there. You know, it's been it's
historically been the deal cranking there. Uh, you using your
(10:13):
forward facing flicking mentos around as a new thing, but
it used to be big worms, big crank baits and
drag them one bottom and find those hard spots. And
you know, if you look back, like you're seeing Garrett.
When Garrett won a century about Yeah, during the Texas Fest,
we just had him on. He won cranking or hit
almost one cranking. He lost to Brandon Cob This lake
(10:38):
Cobb with shallow.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
It showed out so many different styles and techniques that
you can do and you can be successful.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah, was flipping and I mean his baits would barely
hit the water and they would get sucked up. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
It's crazy too because Seth I was hearing another guy
say that Seth and Hackney probably fished the best that
you could probably fish shallow, and they still weren't even
close to winning. Yeah, which is crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Was that person making the relationship between ford facing and
not ford facing?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
That's exactly right. I'm getting tired of it, to be honest.
I like seeing big weights. You know, you're just gonna
have to blend with it and like someone like Tucker,
you know what I mean, you have to side scan
those likes. It's not just about ford facing. You still
have to find the spots. You still have to find
the schools that are willing to fire.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
It's not easy.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
It's like being in construction. If you have the tools,
you got to use them for a specific part of
the job exactly. You know Lake Fork. Yeah, while those
guys are using ford facing sonar, it wasn't them just
sitting there shaking a minnow.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Like.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Some of the guys were using suspending jerk baits. Other
guys were using soft jerk baits. While they're watching it happen.
The biggest part that's missing for the for the average
person watching is they want the explanation of what you're doing.
What you used to make bass Master awesome? Is bass
Master when they would go live with Hank Parker or
(12:00):
they would go live with Ikenelly or Swindle back in
the day, is while they were fishing, the method that
they were doing, they would share with you different things
that they would do. It's kind of like when you
watch these guys YouTube channels now. Jason Christi Ikenelly, Scott Martin,
anybody who's really got a big powerhouse YouTube. They go
(12:22):
into detail about what they like to do. But they
used to do that on the water. Now they all
have their own platforms where they can do that.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, it is interesting because if you watch the old
bass Masters, they're fun to watch because they have like
the old three D topography maps that they're showing you
at the same time. And Yeah, Jerry mckinness did an
outstanding job.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
When bass Master was owned by ESPN. It was probably
the best production they possibly had because they had access
to a graphics department that not everybody has. As I've
watched now, I do feel like bass is kind of
reaching a little bit to try to figure out what's
gonna work. You know. I love everybody that works at
(13:02):
bass I think they're great people, but there are a
lot of things that I'm like, we're getting away from
what we want. We want to see more on the
water coverage, which now means you have to increase the
amount of cameras that you have. Yeah, and you know
this from running around on different tournaments. It's really hard
to find boats to run cameras.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
It is, it really is, which you think would be
the opposite. You think a lot of people will be
willing to run around out there, but it's I guess
it's not.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Nascar went through the same problem over the last ten
years where they're having trouble growing the sport. Now they're
on a real upward push. I think bass is going
to get there.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
They will.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And I say bass not just bass Master. I'm talking
about MLF and I think right now, yeah, just fishing
in general. I think right now, what you have is
you have two major organizations who have two different styles,
but they complement one another because each one can look
at what the other is doing well and then try
(13:56):
to figure out how they can exactly exact.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You need competition and editors and different you know, trails
and stuff like that to build to keep everything interesting
to stay on.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Still, we've been talking a little bit about some of
the tournaments that have been happening in bass Master. Most recently,
we just wrapped up Lake Fork. The guys are heading
to Sabine River if you're just listening to this now.
But even before that, we had a tournament where Paul
Marx won his first Blue trophy. Paul Marx incredible angler
(14:29):
out of Lake Lanier in Georgia. He dominated on Lake Hartwell.
He's done a lot of fishing on Lake Hartwell, knows
a lot about the lake, knows a ton about the
brush piles, how to fish them, what works well. And
he really showcased his skills. And then he backed it
up when they went to Lake Fork because he was
leading for some of the tournament and then ultimately finished
(14:50):
second to Tucker Smith, a guy that he's become really
good friends with. They travel together, they've known each other
coming up with the opens, and they they've obviously spent
a lot of time together. You had a couple of questions,
though it.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
May have been Ike Andelly actually that said on one
of his podcasts that he didn't think it was right
that guys are able to practice together like they're like
they're traveling together, living in the same households, you know,
relaying information and you know, and fishing in groups. Shall
I say, because it's not just Paul and Tucker, there's
a whole bunch of guys that do it.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Is he saying that because it would go against the
information rule the bass masters? I mean it has to
be I don't think the information rule, says that you
can't discuss with fellow competitors.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Well, that's what I mean. I think that now with
the way with that bass fishing is you know, I've
just I think it should be an individual sport. You
shouldn't be able to still, you know, converse with your
fellow anglers or competitors anymore. I think with the way
fishing is getting and the you know, if you see
how tense it is in the world with the guys
(15:51):
that are veterans and the guys that are now, it
just seems like that's another thing that they're complaining about
and they're starting to grow.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
So you think it needs to be one hundred percent solitario.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I think it needs to be solitary. I think bass
fishing needs to be an individual sport.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Okay, so let's say that two guys want to travel
together cut the costs because they don't want to spend
I mean, look, bass fishing is expensive because you only
get paid if you win. It's true, you don't get
paid any other way.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
It's true. But those guys got big.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Sponsors and some guys don't. Yeah, so let's take Scott Martin,
Scott Canterbury, Matt Airy, those guys have been traveling together
for a while. There are times, especially given in the
twenty twenty five season when Scott Martin was linked to
the cheating scandal at Lake o Kachobe. There was a
(16:43):
moment in that tournament where Scott Canterbury was in the
top ten. Yeah, and Scott Canterbury is not always in
the top ten, I.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Know, and he was in the same spots as he
was because if you watch Scott's YouTube videos, he's like
you catching him? Here are you doing that? I just
think that I don't think you should be able to
do that as a bass fishing competitor.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I don't disagree with you, but I do think that
there is some there is some benefit to having guys
in groups talk about what they're doing on the lake
because that will help the competition for the parent organization.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, I think it will to the point where you'll
see the same guys winning every single time.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Because we also we also don't know that to be true,
because right now you just had Paul Marks win Heartwell,
you have Tucker Smith finish number one on Lake Fork
Paul was second. Do we think that run will continue?
And if it does, that will raise eyebrows.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Well, I don't know. It's they also both made the
Elite Series the same year.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Right, But what I mean, and they could also say
that about the other eight guys.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
That's my point. That's my point.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
You're saying because I think.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I think. I think when you get to a certain
level and you're so good and you're so much better
than the average angler, and you're out there competing, ultimately
you guys are teaming up and competing against everybody else.
I don't think that should be allowed. I mean, look
at Jacob Wheeler, Dustin Connell, Mark Daniels, Adrian they're always
competitive because they have two of the best fishermen in
(18:13):
the world traveling with them.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Okay, I don't think that should be Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Exactly, exactly exactly. It's just gonna happen. You're gonna see
where your friends are. It's gonna happen. I remember, it's hard.
No fishermen's ever gonna come out and be like, no,
we don't get him for me because they're winning every tournament.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, but we've heard guys say that to us. We've
heard guys say to us. That's my point.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That's my point, that's my point. Every fisherman lies, so
you know, so you gotta you gotta freaking think about
the reality of the situation and guys traveling together. I
can see I Canelly's point. I don't think it's fair,
you know what I mean, because then you do have
guys that, you know, maybe didn't learn forward facing as
well as the next guy, but then their friend knows
(18:54):
it really well and they jump on their boat for
a day fun fishing, and next thing you know, they're
one of the best at doing it too.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
The gas Master's press release that they sent out last
year when they brought up the no information rule, which,
by the way, I'll go back and I'll continue to say,
anglers asked for this. This wasn't bass Master coming down.
This was do you guys want this? And some guys
said yes. I think that has bit a lot of
guys in the ass.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
By the way, but listen to this Spencer. Think about
this Tucker, whatever Tucker has I've been telling you, this
is gold. Whoever this kid fishes with ends up being
a champion. He's traveled with Paul, Paul's a champion. He
fished with Hayden, Hayden's a champion, and now he's a champion,
so he just which is weird.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
But he.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
And his mentor is still Aaron Martin's correct, who taught
him out of side scan all these things, and he
picked up all those things. So whoever this kid touches
is always gold.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It's insane. All right, Let's go over what the no
information rule says per bass Master on their website. To
be clear, effective immediately, both Elite Anglers and e Q
angler are prohibited from getting outside information on elite venues,
meaning the lakes that they fish on the elite schedule.
(20:09):
Outside information. What's considered outside information. Your fellow anglers are
inside the tournament.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I know you don't like it, but I'm just saying,
based on this outside information is Tucker calling me and
asking me.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
But they would never do that. That's not the point
where they get information, though, Spencer. They're not like calling
them being like give me all the spots. They're not
doing that. The way that they get information is they
go fun fishing one day and they hop on the
boat and he teaches them how to side scan and
learn how he's doing it, you know, I mean, or
vice versa. You know, Kevin, you hop in Kevin Van
Dam's boat and he teaches you exactly how to throw
the spinner bait over the log and then you become
(20:48):
the best spinner bait fisherman in the world. That's what
that's the information they get. They're not getting spots or lures.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Okay, So you're saying that outside information is just learning
from somebody else.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
As at the elite level, they're so good there's only
minute differences that differentiate the really, really good guys from
the guys that just kind of win.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, but I disagree a little bit because let's just
take let's take the Kevin van Dam thing. If if
I was an Elite Series angler and I called Kevin
van Dam and I said, hey, man, I'm gonna be
in Michigan. I want to go deep cranking with you.
And he's like, okay, we're not fishing a lake that's
on the Elite Series schedule for that year even the
next year, and we fish, and all of a sudden,
(21:31):
I'm learning some things about deep cranking, like I'll make
sure you pause if you're not hitting anything, or make
sure you try to switch up the variation of the
crank bait to give the fish don't just do a
straight retrieve. Okay, if Kevin is giving me all these things,
then three years from now we end up fishing that
lake around the same exact time. I'm not really outside
(21:51):
my bounds for wanting to go fish with Kevin Van
dam No.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
No, But did Kevin still teach you something that you
may not have known before?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Angle YouTube channel?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
No. No, they don't give all their secrets away on
their YouTube chance.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I'm not saying that they give away all their secrets,
but what I'm saying is, I don't think you can
hold somebody that is learning a technique from somebody unless
it impacts a lake that you already know you're gonna
be fishing.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I think I agree to that at a certain level
of fishing. But when it comes to the Elite Series guys,
there should be I don't think you should ever be
seeing Elite Series guys and other Elite Series guys boats.
I think there should be during the season, you know
what I mean, during the season. I don't think that
should be allowed during off season. They can go fun
fish whenever they want, you know, and go do whatever
(22:35):
they want on their spare time, get together, have a
great but during the elite season. There shouldn't be an
off day when Jacob Prosnik is hopping in the boat
with who knows, Shane Powell, I don't know who, whatever
guy's name, you know what I mean and learning something.
I don't think that should be allowed because at that point,
(22:56):
you're not you know what you're doing. You know what
I mean? You know your game is weak in a way,
and you're trying to gain a competitive edge. You're still
trying to gain a competitive ed.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
But let's go with another Let's go with another sport.
In the off season, NFL players work out together. They
might not be on the same team. It's just a
you're a quarterback and I've seen this happen with they're
trying to gain a what but what's wrong with that?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
But what are they trying to do?
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Though? They're trying to get better and trying to gain
a competitive edge, But they're not because they're not gaining
a competitive edge on the waterway that they're fishing.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
But so you're telling me right now, if I were
to go with the best forward facing SO ANDAR person
in the world on Logan Martin Tomorrow, yes or Lake X,
Let's say, yeah, you can say that, and uh, they
teach me exactly how to flick my minno over the
spotted bass to get every single big one to fire
in the school. You don't think I'll be able to
take that to any other lake and be able to
(23:49):
do the same exact way.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I think you will. But I don't think that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
But what are you gaining when by learning that from
some gaining, you're gaining an education a competitive edge. But
that should be allowed only at certain levels. When you're
at a certainly at the Elite Series, guys, like I said,
during the season, they should not be jumping in other
guys boats on fun off days to go fishing. I
just don't think it's right.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
So to be simplistic about it, as soon as you
become a bass.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Master early you have to hold yourself to a higher standard.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
You never fish with another human being.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
No, you can, you can, but not other Elite Series anglers.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
You can't fish with a current Elite Series angler or
a former Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I think during the season, tournament season, during the off season,
during the off season, do what you want, because who
knows if you're gonna fish next season.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Well that's my point. Yeah, my point is I think
that you should be able to go out and get
education from wherever. Yes, as long as it's not impacting
what's happening that season that.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Season, right, So if you if you go out during
the off season, it's completely different because you're, like you said,
you're honing your skills. But during the season, things can
change a lot. During the season where you could pick
up on little mind did things that you didn't even
think about. But this guy clues you in on some
fun fishing lake one day, and then you end up
firing the rest of the season and just absolutely demolishing.
(25:09):
And that's where I think a lot of these guys,
these veterans are getting really upset about these guys traveling together.
I think it's not only because they necessarily give themselves information,
but they they're learning everything from each other. And when
you're really really good at something, everybody wants a piece
(25:29):
of it. And if you can't give it out, you're
giving it out to certain people, and they're picking up
on the details, like Paul Wah Tucker, Like Tucker's not
giving everybody his little intrinsic details on how he goes
and finds these fish. He doesn't do that but guess what,
Paul's fisher them sees how he does it. He showed
him how to do it, and now he knows how
to do the same thing, So now he knows those
little details. Look to you think Paul's gonna go tell
(25:52):
Emil Wagner the same thing. Absolutely not, you know what
I mean. But there's obviously a certain trust level that
these guys get to where they kind of clue each
other in on the details that make the cheers.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
We've been talking about competitive advantages in fishing. We've been
talking about the information rule. This has been talked about
quite a bit. I'm gonna throw something your way, Daniel,
and I just want to gain your perspective on this
because we've heard this in several conversations about the no
information rule, DOC talk being around conversations about bodies of
(26:32):
water that you're on. We both believe that if you
hear doc talk, that is gaining a competitive advantage, whether
you seek it out or not, if you're hearing it,
you're getting information. You can't turn your ears off. You
just have to tell guys, hey, look, can't talk about this.
What about the most recent incident with Scott Martin where
(26:56):
he was talking to somebody and gaining information about lakes
in the area that are similar, So he's not getting
information about the specific body of water. So it's a
gray area because everyone who tournament fishes knows if you're
going to fish a body of water, but you're gonna
ask about lakes that are similar in the area, You're
(27:17):
not talking about the exact one. You're just skirting the issue.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
That's exactly right. Yeah, you are skirting the issue. That's
that great area that we're going back to again with
the leak. Guy's fishing to get on the off days,
the lakes that are around. It's the same thing.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I agree, literally, I agree. That's why I when I
heard the Scott Martin stuff come out, I sat there
and I was like, we all know what's being done here.
I mean, all of us have heard the rumors of
how guys cheat, how they get it done, and then
we've seen, you know, blatant people cheat in much lower
tournament trails and just single tournaments. I mean from guys
(27:53):
having their wives bring them fish in a cooler. The
reason why you don't do trailer weigh ins at a
lot of places, hollowing out the bottom of a pontoon
boat and stacking fish in there go getting a basket
like it's it's wild to me the lengths that guys
will go to win, especially dudes that want to win
like a random Tuesday or Wednesday night or Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Strange to me.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
It's an ego thing, right, Yeah, Like you go into
the ramp the next day and saying I won Tuesday night,
it's like two hundred and bucks, Like excited you caught
three fish for eleven pounds.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I love those tournaments, but if you're gonna have to
cheat in those tournaments, it tells me a lot more
about who you are. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you
when it comes down to gaining a competitive advantage. Where
I think you and I were having the conversation that
I just want to make abundantly clear. I don't think
guys in the off season, when the tournament schedule's over,
going to fish with another Elite Series pro that's current
(28:50):
or a former Elite Series pro or really a former
pro in general, and you want to learn how to
fish that technique and get better. I don't see that
as a problem.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
The main reason though, is if I want to get
better at frog fishing, and I called Dean Rojas and say, hey,
I want to go frog fishing with you. The tournament
season's over. I don't know what the new schedule is,
but I know that I need to get better at this.
There shouldn't be a problem with that.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I think you need to get better on your own.
You need to put the time in the but you
also do it yourself. You also have to learn from people,
like every time there's YouTube, every time you and I
go out and fish, I learned from you. Yeah, well
what if I what if let's just say you and
I are both Elite Series anglers, all right, both of us.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
All right, let's just hypothetically.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Because there's just hypothetically speaking, we're both elitet series anglers.
All right. You said, and you give me credit that
I'm a better fisherman. Would you be learning a ton
from me every single day as an elite serious guy?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
This is my point. I don't think that I would learn.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
I would at the level you're at right now, at
the level I'm at right now, if you were, if
we were.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Just so happened to be Elite series guys together. But
there's just Spencer Spencer hypothetically speaking, Okay, you'd be learning right,
it would make you a better fisherman.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yes, of course it will.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
That's that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
But does that mean that you and I could never
fish together?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I think when you get to the Elite Series during
the season, you should not be They need to install
a role where they should not be able to fish.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
That's in the season I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
When it's not you, no fish of the season, Go
have a ball, drink Brisky's drop shots.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
That's gonna be a problem. All right, Let's break down
the team's thing. Because I know a lot of guys
like to travel with other dudes, and they say that
they don't have conversations about where they're going. Obviously, when
you watch things on TV, you can start to piece
together that things are not as they seem. People traveling together,
(30:55):
staying together, sharing Airbnbs, getting four campground spaces around one another.
There's no problem with that. The issue is whether or
not the guys are talking.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah, ultimately, yeah, So do.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
You believe that the guys are sitting down and they're saying,
let's just not talk about fishing, Let's talk about something else.
Let's go play golf on a day before we can practice.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Listen, winners hang with winners, right, So if you're hanging
with a winner, you're gonna be a winner. How do
you think you just miraculously become a winner. You gain
the attributes of the winner.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
But that's not always entirely just. But we've watched we've
watched bass phishing events where guys who travel together, hang
out together, room together are not finishing one in two
or six and seven.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
That's because those guys don't have the it factor. They
don't have they don't have what it takes. But still
at the same time, it doesn't make it right.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So we're just looking at the most recent tournament on
paper Lake FOURK and knowing at Paul Marx as a stud.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
It's everybody. It's not just them.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
It's not just them.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I'm telling you. It's like the last the last two
rookie classes are probably the best fishermen that have come
out of bass Master for a long time. But that's
where that's where you can't take that away from them
as well either.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
But that's where sports go. Like Michael Jordan has always
said that he's not the greatest of all time, because
he never got to match up against the other guys
that were considered the greatest of all time. You could
be great for a decade. If you're lucky enough, you
could be a great You could be great for a
couple decades, right, but you're pretty much given a ten
to twelve year run in a lot of things. We'll
(32:40):
get van Dam. Van Dam was a powerhouse in a decade.
So it's it's kind of like when you have the
opportunity to be the guy or be the girl and
you are dominating, you better just take it and you
better just run with it. Yeah, but after that, you
just go back to being in everyday dude, because someone
(33:02):
is coming for you and they're gaining more information and
they have more knowledge that they can now apply because
the new information rule says you can't get outside information,
but you can't get information from things that are publicly available,
which is social mediatube, YouTube and everything else.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah, I don't know. Just my two cents.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
I want to give Paul Marx a lot of love
because it's incredible that he was able to win on
lake Hartwell, he did an awesome job. I thought it
was hilarious that Jason Christie put out a post. It
must have been an auto correct. I don't know if
he has a lot of friends in a Paul, but
he said, I want to say congratulations to Phil Marx
fil Marks. I think it's the most I think it's
the best thing in the world. And the reason why
(33:43):
is whether Jason meant to say film Marks or it
auto corrected to Phil Marks instead of Paul Marx. I
want Paul to develop t shirts to say I'm Phil Marks,
because that's the kind of thing that makes fans.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, because it gets funny.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, you know, yeah, you're Tucker. When he won on
Lake Fork, Rick Klun, I know, we just talked about
goats and all that. Rick Klun is right. He gave
props to Tucker, even included Aaron Martin's in the conversation
because of how Tucker came up. That has to be
(34:20):
for Tucker the most amazing thing that's ever happened.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Things like that don't happen with Aaron winning the Mother's
Day Dude, that's that was meant to be.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Isn't that wild?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Was meant to be?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yea he wins in Mother's Day? His mom was there.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
That realm in life, the spirit world, is a real thing, dude,
it really is.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
That just goes to show this didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
That just goes to show you that's a thing.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
I'm just loving how this new class of rookies that
are coming into professional fishing. I love what they're able
to do. And I love what the sophomore guys that
were rookies last year. I love what they're still crushing
it because you are now seeing the new breed. This
is the change of the guard when it comes to fishing,
(35:02):
and there are some dudes who are veterans who are
absolute studs and can still do it. Hackney, you know
how much I like Hackney. Yeah, I just think he's
a phenomenal human being. He's a great fisherman. He won
an event on the MPFL this year, and he battled
like crazy in the last couple. You look at the
Angler of the year, it's cool to see some of
the names that are there.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
But it's also a moment in time where if you're
a fan of professional fishing, you better start looking around, yep,
because these new names that are coming up in the
names that are going to potentially come in next year
with that class, those are going to be the battles
that you're going to see for the next ten to
fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, keep your eye on Fisher and I I'm calling
it right now. He will win. If he makes the elites,
he'll win Rookie of the Year next week.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
We'll put my ass in the AVT. So I completely
understand that. All right. Thank you so much for listening
to lines and times. Don't forget to like and subscribe.
We appreciate you guys being here on the iHeart podcast
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