September 10, 2024 • 16 mins
Jessica Moon, a Partner at Roth, Bacon Moon Attorneys, llc, joined the podcast to take a look at both candidates for President and things they have proposed that may change estate planning and taxes, and what they may extend, allow to expire or update within their administration.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining me on the phone today from Roth Bacon Moon Attorneys.
It is Jessica Moon. Jessica, good morning. How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I am great, Paul, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I am wonderful. And today we're going to talk a
little bit about how you vote and how things can
change when it comes to your estate planning, your state,
things that you want to pass on to your family.
And so you're going to kind of look at both
of the candidates running for president and talk a little
bit about some of the things that could happen or
(00:31):
may happen, or will happen based on who's the president
of the United States.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Correct, that's absolutely right. So regardless of how you lean,
there are certain things aware of and certain things that
particularly affect my profession, and so I kind of want
to focus on those for our clients. And this is
timely because tonight, as we are recording this, right is
(00:55):
this first scheduled debate. So by the time you will
have been hearing this, of course probably have already come
and gone. But perhaps in remembering the debate, you will
pick up a couple issues and if something applies and
you want to know a little bit more about it,
I would encourage everybody to be a schooled voter. Isn't
that what we would like? Really, an informed populace. So
(01:18):
always lovely. So a couple of things that kind of
draw my attention. In comparison of the two candidates for office.
I focus a lot on the twenty seventeen Tax.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Cuts and Jobs Act.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
This is a bill that was enacted during twenty seventeen
that has affected a lot of small businesses, has affected
the state tax planning, and it's set to expire in
some respects at the end of twenty five and so
there is a looming issue about what is going to
(01:53):
happen if Congress doesn't agree. And within that bill, certain
things are set to go back to how they were before,
and this is what automatically happens if nobody changes it.
And some of those things are the estate tax is
now set at record high levels, with being thirteen point
(02:13):
seven million this year. It's going to get adjusted again
next year, one final time before the expiration.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
So it's just it's huge.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And it's wonderful, and we still have clients that are
affected even at that level, passing away with more than that,
and so next year may be one of the big
wealth transfer years that we have seen in previous twenty ten,
twenty twelve. When Congress does this all the time, they
always they say it's permanent until it's not. There's a
(02:42):
big rush to get that wealth transferred out because if
you don't in twenty six some of.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Those tax cuts jobs Acts will expire and go back
to be roughly five million as adjusted for inflation for individuals,
ten millions for couples, and so you will have some
clients that are going to automatically be in that boat
and be affected. And so for those individuals, we need
(03:09):
to brace review and see what fits now. Harris's stance
is that she would like I've seen it in different levels,
but the state tax to be set at levels of
around three point five million. Okay, now it sounds like
(03:29):
a lot, and it is, but increasingly it's not. And
so anything over and above that projecting a fifty five
percent tax rate.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Currently it's at forty and those are huge numbers. I mean,
regardless of where you are politically, you could be affected
by that, and it's something that you have an opportunity
to plan around. You need to figure out ways to
either get that out or to account for the tax
on the back end when it comes home. Trump in comparison,
(04:02):
I've seen places where he wants to extend the provisions
in the.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Tax cuts and jobs ACKs so that.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
It will continue to be adjusted upward in forever, or
all together to remove the provisions of a state tax. Interestingly,
he also is thinking of removing the provisions for gets
to be filed, so seven h nine's as a filing
(04:31):
may go away all together. I love having a conversation
with my accountant friend on this in it and for us,
you know, we kind of cling to those things as records,
so it will be interesting to see how those would
ever come into places. I don't know that he would
be successful in having Congress agree on that, but in
any event, it's just something interesting to keep the count
(04:53):
up right. So we're just in a real are of uncertainty,
and everybody should be aware of what opportunities are available
to them to plan in comparison with a two just
on that level, certainly, taxes shouldn't always drive everything that
(05:14):
you're doing, and they don't drive everything that we're doing.
So whenever we are planning for our clients as far
as how this works into their plan, we always want
to leave ourselves with control and flexibility, right, Nobody wants
to be that persons who's going around with the with
(05:35):
the ultraperm or the mullet that completely stylized and that
kind of thing. And not to pick on those people.
There's some beautiful hairstyles of all kinds I've seen out there,
but you can get really ingrained into a certain place
and time and it doesn't translate. Well, it doesn't. It
doesn't pass to give it all away with no ability
(06:01):
to reach back or direct or no contingency planning, because
I have seen it in the best of families where
everybody is on the same page. And if you're doing
these things in an attempt to reduce taxes or to
save funds or to invest, and you're doing it solely
(06:23):
with that in mind, and you're not taking into consideration
what that's going to do to individuals who are not
yet ready to receive that, who may have family concerned,
who may have emotional issues, spend thrift problems, or just
financial issues in general. If you don't have proper planning
(06:46):
to account for that, and you're not actually looking at
the people that are involved in that plan, then it
really can be destructive. And not only from a financial standpoint,
but also from a relationship standpoints. I mean, some of
the things that we're doing in this profession is that
we are handing off, we are pushing down the line
(07:10):
small businesses. We're pushing down the line the family homestead.
We are passing a legacy onto those family members. And
if they don't quite appreciate the responsibility and accountability that
comes with that, and they get it too soon, then
it can be destructive in a way that you almost
(07:32):
wish you just hadn't done any transferring at all. And
so when you're doing these things and there's big ticket
items involved, you certainly don't want to hand that all
off to just get it out the door. There's always
going to be tax implications to what you do, but
it only needs to be a part of that plan.
(07:52):
Those things always need to be fit within what's particular
to you. Who are the family members that are going
to be in charge, who are the ones that can
manage it, and in such a way where it's not
going to alienate the ones who are not in the
management position. Because ultimately we do want to help families
build their wealth generation to generations, but we also want
(08:13):
them to remain intact and in a healthy way continue
to manage those assets.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Now that's award, that's very well said. I completely understand that.
I know in some of your comparison where you talk
about Trump versus Harris, and you were talking a little
bit about small business in there, I know one of
Harris's plans you have on your sheet is to eliminate
the qualified small business deduction versus the terrorists that that
(08:39):
Trump are interested in for imported goods. Talk about that
for a minute.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah, yeah, thank you, Paul. So there's a couple of
strange things that I picked up just in review of this,
and one of them is the elimination of the qualified
business deduction on Harris's schedule. Now, that's something that is
put in place by the two thousand seventeen Act, and
it has assisted a lot of pass through businesses in
(09:06):
being able to take advantage of that tax break. So
this doesn't apply to see corps, it doesn't apply to
the publicly traded companies, but it does apply to you know,
over ninety percent of the businesses in the United States
being small businesses, being small soul proprietors, being LLCs, being
s corps, limited partnership. All of those, you know, the
(09:30):
assault of the earth's businesses that you see around you
on main streets, those are the ones that are going
to be losing out on that deduction. And that's not
just as a result of her proposal. That is set
to expire, and it is something that would have to
be affirmatively surried forward. So again with Trump on that,
he is at least in some articles acknowledging that he
(09:55):
would like to prolong those provisions of the Act so
that the small businesses could continue to take advantage of that.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
But a strange and I believe this is fairly recent,
but Trump has noted that he would like to see
the personal income tax replaced with a tariff system on
foreign imports. So, you know, I'm not an economist, but
that's interesting to see how that might play out, because
(10:27):
you've got to think, great, no personal income taxes, but
the tariffs on those goods that we would be importing
obviously would be a consumption tax. I mean, if we're
out there buying these goods and the foreign companies shipping
them in are going to have to pay more to
get them here either, we're going to have you know,
a spike in those prices, or we're just going to
(10:49):
see you know, complete shelves of goods just not there
any longer. I'm just curious as to how that might
play out. It's an interesting concept, and I think a
lot of what Trump does is more saber rattling than
actual I think that's he's got the reputation of being
the wild card and you know, helpful or hurtful to
(11:13):
him in negotiating with foreign powers. So I don't know
how much we can put stock in that he truly
would have the entire personal income tax system replaced with
the terrorist system. But again, that was just something I
thought was interesting that stuck out, and little side by
side comparison with the Harris income tax journey, how they
(11:37):
how they would account for those for those things. So
in most cases you're going to see Democratic candidates suggesting
a raise in taxations, and in most cases you will see, uh,
the Republican candidates suggesting a lowering of those taxes. And
so you know, it is the pendulum swing, it's the
(12:03):
it's a necessary combination of both that we have had
in place forever, right, and it.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Also plays in it also plays in not just who
you're voting for in regards to president and their stance,
but you also have to look at who you're voting
for when it comes to the Senate race as well,
because that's going to make a difference as to whether
or not the types of things that you're interested in
getting enacted or moved ahead or whatever have an opportunity
(12:32):
to do it, versus is there gridlock or not. That's
obviously a huge part of this too.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
That's absolutely right. So, I mean, it's always down the
ballot you're looking at how are these things going to be.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Viewed and pushed.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
A lot of people even run for cover in other
members of the other parties being elected and using that
as an ability to say, hey, we need to that's
a crazy plan. That's a crazy plan. Let's get together
and figure out the best way forward with a consensus.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
And that seems to be how this how this beautiful
country has always operated up until this point, and I
hope it continues.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Well, you'd like to believe that it would continue. And
I appreciate you bringing up the topic and bringing it
to the listeners. Those things that could change, or the
things that will change, or the things that might need
to be extended and or canceled or moved on. I
think that's some really good stuff, but it's very important,
and I think the point of the entire conversation is,
(13:34):
become an informed voter. Spend time learning what you need
to learn before you cast a ballot, and make sure
that you're voting for the for that what you believe
in or what you feel is the direction we need
to be taking.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
You know, I just saw something on scrolling through my
social media stuff about how it's it's so easy to
become a cynic because it doesn't require anything and you
can exempt yourself from the process, but it's it's hard
to be hopeful. So in becoming an informed voter, you
(14:11):
are acknowledging that you've got a role to play in
this and and in in that same vein you know,
to pivot back to what we do in planning for
your family, in taking that first step and saying I
can do something about this, I can I can maybe
even make it better going forward. And we all have
that in us. We all have that ability to to
(14:32):
do something good and to put something good out there,
and so it's it's far too easy to just exempt
yourself from the process and to not uh and to
not do what you've been called to do. But I
would encourage everybody it's not it's right there, it's all
there for you. All you have to do is be
willing to step out in faith and take the next step.
(14:53):
So look into it and see how these uh, these
things affect you. And you know, we may not agree
with everybody, but you've been given a personal voice, you've
been given a role to play with your own experiences,
and so I think we do best when we bring
all of those experiences to the table. Rather than to
just keep our head down, keep our mouth shut, and
(15:14):
keep our keep our our own path, I think it's
better when we share these.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Things right on and well said. Tell everybody how they
can reach out to Roth Bacon Moon Attorneys if they're
interested in a state planning and all of the things
that you guys specialize in at Roth Bacon Moon Attorneys.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Absolutely please feel free to give us a call for
one nine two nine four two two three two. You
can find us online at rothbaconlaw dot com and we
have offices locally in Marion one eighty one East Center
Street in Appersondusky, UH fifty Court Street and in Port Clinton,
Ohio two O five Southeast Cataba Road, so any one
of our locations as well as Florida, but I don't
(15:53):
go there. So yeah, I just practice in Florida. I'm
licensed in Florida.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I get it. But start that conversation and get a
hold of Jessica and the team and get that conversation started,
and good stuff today. Thank you so much,
Joining me on the phone today from Roth Bacon Moon Attorneys.
It is Jessica Moon. Jessica, good morning. How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I am great, Paul, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I am wonderful. And today we're going to talk a
little bit about how you vote and how things can
change when it comes to your estate planning, your state,
things that you want to pass on to your family.
And so you're going to kind of look at both
of the candidates running for president and talk a little
bit about some of the things that could happen or
(00:31):
may happen, or will happen based on who's the president
of the United States.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Correct, that's absolutely right. So regardless of how you lean,
there are certain things aware of and certain things that
particularly affect my profession, and so I kind of want
to focus on those for our clients. And this is
timely because tonight, as we are recording this, right is
(00:55):
this first scheduled debate. So by the time you will
have been hearing this, of course probably have already come
and gone. But perhaps in remembering the debate, you will
pick up a couple issues and if something applies and
you want to know a little bit more about it,
I would encourage everybody to be a schooled voter. Isn't
that what we would like? Really, an informed populace. So
(01:18):
always lovely. So a couple of things that kind of
draw my attention. In comparison of the two candidates for office.
I focus a lot on the twenty seventeen Tax.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Cuts and Jobs Act.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
This is a bill that was enacted during twenty seventeen
that has affected a lot of small businesses, has affected
the state tax planning, and it's set to expire in
some respects at the end of twenty five and so
there is a looming issue about what is going to
(01:53):
happen if Congress doesn't agree. And within that bill, certain
things are set to go back to how they were before,
and this is what automatically happens if nobody changes it.
And some of those things are the estate tax is
now set at record high levels, with being thirteen point
(02:13):
seven million this year. It's going to get adjusted again
next year, one final time before the expiration.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
So it's just it's huge.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And it's wonderful, and we still have clients that are
affected even at that level, passing away with more than that,
and so next year may be one of the big
wealth transfer years that we have seen in previous twenty ten,
twenty twelve. When Congress does this all the time, they
always they say it's permanent until it's not. There's a
(02:42):
big rush to get that wealth transferred out because if
you don't in twenty six some of.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Those tax cuts jobs Acts will expire and go back
to be roughly five million as adjusted for inflation for individuals,
ten millions for couples, and so you will have some
clients that are going to automatically be in that boat
and be affected. And so for those individuals, we need
(03:09):
to brace review and see what fits now. Harris's stance
is that she would like I've seen it in different levels,
but the state tax to be set at levels of
around three point five million. Okay, now it sounds like
(03:29):
a lot, and it is, but increasingly it's not. And
so anything over and above that projecting a fifty five
percent tax rate.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Currently it's at forty and those are huge numbers. I mean,
regardless of where you are politically, you could be affected
by that, and it's something that you have an opportunity
to plan around. You need to figure out ways to
either get that out or to account for the tax
on the back end when it comes home. Trump in comparison,
(04:02):
I've seen places where he wants to extend the provisions
in the.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Tax cuts and jobs ACKs so that.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
It will continue to be adjusted upward in forever, or
all together to remove the provisions of a state tax. Interestingly,
he also is thinking of removing the provisions for gets
to be filed, so seven h nine's as a filing
(04:31):
may go away all together. I love having a conversation
with my accountant friend on this in it and for us,
you know, we kind of cling to those things as records,
so it will be interesting to see how those would
ever come into places. I don't know that he would
be successful in having Congress agree on that, but in
any event, it's just something interesting to keep the count
(04:53):
up right. So we're just in a real are of uncertainty,
and everybody should be aware of what opportunities are available
to them to plan in comparison with a two just
on that level, certainly, taxes shouldn't always drive everything that
(05:14):
you're doing, and they don't drive everything that we're doing.
So whenever we are planning for our clients as far
as how this works into their plan, we always want
to leave ourselves with control and flexibility, right, Nobody wants
to be that persons who's going around with the with
(05:35):
the ultraperm or the mullet that completely stylized and that
kind of thing. And not to pick on those people.
There's some beautiful hairstyles of all kinds I've seen out there,
but you can get really ingrained into a certain place
and time and it doesn't translate. Well, it doesn't. It
doesn't pass to give it all away with no ability
(06:01):
to reach back or direct or no contingency planning, because
I have seen it in the best of families where
everybody is on the same page. And if you're doing
these things in an attempt to reduce taxes or to
save funds or to invest, and you're doing it solely
(06:23):
with that in mind, and you're not taking into consideration
what that's going to do to individuals who are not
yet ready to receive that, who may have family concerned,
who may have emotional issues, spend thrift problems, or just
financial issues in general. If you don't have proper planning
(06:46):
to account for that, and you're not actually looking at
the people that are involved in that plan, then it
really can be destructive. And not only from a financial standpoint,
but also from a relationship standpoints. I mean, some of
the things that we're doing in this profession is that
we are handing off, we are pushing down the line
(07:10):
small businesses. We're pushing down the line the family homestead.
We are passing a legacy onto those family members. And
if they don't quite appreciate the responsibility and accountability that
comes with that, and they get it too soon, then
it can be destructive in a way that you almost
(07:32):
wish you just hadn't done any transferring at all. And
so when you're doing these things and there's big ticket
items involved, you certainly don't want to hand that all
off to just get it out the door. There's always
going to be tax implications to what you do, but
it only needs to be a part of that plan.
(07:52):
Those things always need to be fit within what's particular
to you. Who are the family members that are going
to be in charge, who are the ones that can
manage it, and in such a way where it's not
going to alienate the ones who are not in the
management position. Because ultimately we do want to help families
build their wealth generation to generations, but we also want
(08:13):
them to remain intact and in a healthy way continue
to manage those assets.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Now that's award, that's very well said. I completely understand that.
I know in some of your comparison where you talk
about Trump versus Harris, and you were talking a little
bit about small business in there, I know one of
Harris's plans you have on your sheet is to eliminate
the qualified small business deduction versus the terrorists that that
(08:39):
Trump are interested in for imported goods. Talk about that
for a minute.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah, yeah, thank you, Paul. So there's a couple of
strange things that I picked up just in review of this,
and one of them is the elimination of the qualified
business deduction on Harris's schedule. Now, that's something that is
put in place by the two thousand seventeen Act, and
it has assisted a lot of pass through businesses in
(09:06):
being able to take advantage of that tax break. So
this doesn't apply to see corps, it doesn't apply to
the publicly traded companies, but it does apply to you know,
over ninety percent of the businesses in the United States
being small businesses, being small soul proprietors, being LLCs, being
s corps, limited partnership. All of those, you know, the
(09:30):
assault of the earth's businesses that you see around you
on main streets, those are the ones that are going
to be losing out on that deduction. And that's not
just as a result of her proposal. That is set
to expire, and it is something that would have to
be affirmatively surried forward. So again with Trump on that,
he is at least in some articles acknowledging that he
(09:55):
would like to prolong those provisions of the Act so
that the small businesses could continue to take advantage of that.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
But a strange and I believe this is fairly recent,
but Trump has noted that he would like to see
the personal income tax replaced with a tariff system on
foreign imports. So, you know, I'm not an economist, but
that's interesting to see how that might play out, because
(10:27):
you've got to think, great, no personal income taxes, but
the tariffs on those goods that we would be importing
obviously would be a consumption tax. I mean, if we're
out there buying these goods and the foreign companies shipping
them in are going to have to pay more to
get them here either, we're going to have you know,
a spike in those prices, or we're just going to
(10:49):
see you know, complete shelves of goods just not there
any longer. I'm just curious as to how that might
play out. It's an interesting concept, and I think a
lot of what Trump does is more saber rattling than
actual I think that's he's got the reputation of being
the wild card and you know, helpful or hurtful to
(11:13):
him in negotiating with foreign powers. So I don't know
how much we can put stock in that he truly
would have the entire personal income tax system replaced with
the terrorist system. But again, that was just something I
thought was interesting that stuck out, and little side by
side comparison with the Harris income tax journey, how they
(11:37):
how they would account for those for those things. So
in most cases you're going to see Democratic candidates suggesting
a raise in taxations, and in most cases you will see, uh,
the Republican candidates suggesting a lowering of those taxes. And
so you know, it is the pendulum swing, it's the
(12:03):
it's a necessary combination of both that we have had
in place forever, right, and it.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Also plays in it also plays in not just who
you're voting for in regards to president and their stance,
but you also have to look at who you're voting
for when it comes to the Senate race as well,
because that's going to make a difference as to whether
or not the types of things that you're interested in
getting enacted or moved ahead or whatever have an opportunity
(12:32):
to do it, versus is there gridlock or not. That's
obviously a huge part of this too.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
That's absolutely right. So, I mean, it's always down the
ballot you're looking at how are these things going to be.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Viewed and pushed.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
A lot of people even run for cover in other
members of the other parties being elected and using that
as an ability to say, hey, we need to that's
a crazy plan. That's a crazy plan. Let's get together
and figure out the best way forward with a consensus.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
And that seems to be how this how this beautiful
country has always operated up until this point, and I
hope it continues.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Well, you'd like to believe that it would continue. And
I appreciate you bringing up the topic and bringing it
to the listeners. Those things that could change, or the
things that will change, or the things that might need
to be extended and or canceled or moved on. I
think that's some really good stuff, but it's very important,
and I think the point of the entire conversation is,
(13:34):
become an informed voter. Spend time learning what you need
to learn before you cast a ballot, and make sure
that you're voting for the for that what you believe
in or what you feel is the direction we need
to be taking.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
You know, I just saw something on scrolling through my
social media stuff about how it's it's so easy to
become a cynic because it doesn't require anything and you
can exempt yourself from the process, but it's it's hard
to be hopeful. So in becoming an informed voter, you
(14:11):
are acknowledging that you've got a role to play in
this and and in in that same vein you know,
to pivot back to what we do in planning for
your family, in taking that first step and saying I
can do something about this, I can I can maybe
even make it better going forward. And we all have
that in us. We all have that ability to to
(14:32):
do something good and to put something good out there,
and so it's it's far too easy to just exempt
yourself from the process and to not uh and to
not do what you've been called to do. But I
would encourage everybody it's not it's right there, it's all
there for you. All you have to do is be
willing to step out in faith and take the next step.
(14:53):
So look into it and see how these uh, these
things affect you. And you know, we may not agree
with everybody, but you've been given a personal voice, you've
been given a role to play with your own experiences,
and so I think we do best when we bring
all of those experiences to the table. Rather than to
just keep our head down, keep our mouth shut, and
(15:14):
keep our keep our our own path, I think it's
better when we share these.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Things right on and well said. Tell everybody how they
can reach out to Roth Bacon Moon Attorneys if they're
interested in a state planning and all of the things
that you guys specialize in at Roth Bacon Moon Attorneys.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Absolutely please feel free to give us a call for
one nine two nine four two two three two. You
can find us online at rothbaconlaw dot com and we
have offices locally in Marion one eighty one East Center
Street in Appersondusky, UH fifty Court Street and in Port Clinton,
Ohio two O five Southeast Cataba Road, so any one
of our locations as well as Florida, but I don't
(15:53):
go there. So yeah, I just practice in Florida. I'm
licensed in Florida.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I get it. But start that conversation and get a
hold of Jessica and the team and get that conversation started,
and good stuff today. Thank you so much,
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