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November 16, 2023 33 mins
The MEternal Podcast sits down Elena D. of Get Well With Elle and Dr. Ashley Lowe-Simmons to talk the connection between maternal health and mental health, as well as holistic maternal health solutions for a healthy pregnancy.
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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
We have been walking around since Igot here. Okay, I was like,
don't uber, We're gonna be late, and I was like, I'm
hot and I brought long Everything Ihave is long sleeves. Yeah. In
my mind, I'm like, NewYork, it's gonna be cold, it's
gonna be cool, and it's not. It's not regular right. Well,

you know, this is like whatthey call our Indian summer. Okay,
so we get like like kind ofweird summer weather as we continue to transition
into like the colder months. Soit was freezing last week where I had
the heat on. My husband's like, you really got the heat. I'm
like, yes, I have theheat on. And then this week we
had like a not a heat wave, but it went up to like seventy
eighty, so it was like eightyon Monday, you know. And so

it's like that weird like weather inbetween her. But then it's gonna be
brick in another two weeks, it'sgonna be cold. And yeah, so
New York is tricky like that.Where are y'all from? I'm from New
Orleans, okay and raised, andthen I'm to Charlotte, North Carolina.
Oh I wish you would have metLarry So Larry Morrow, Yes, he

was just here. Yeah, yeah, he's I don't know him personally,
but we have well he's gonna bea the mental wellness expos I saw.
Yes, maybe hopefully I'll get tomeet him in person. Yeah yeah,
yeah, you definitely will. Yeah. Yeah, nice guy. He is
super kind, uh, super superkind person. Everybody has good things to
say about him, all yeah yeahyeah nice New Orleans. Yeah, I've

been once. My sister went toXavier. Oh yeah, so she did
pre med there and then she wenton to do veterinary medicine. Nice.
Yeah, and she left like rightbefore literally she graduated weeks before Katrina came.
I think it was like two weeksafter she moved me. And I
was like, oh my god,I just was a blessing and didn't even

know it. Yeah, that wasthat was a wild crazy yeah time,
and looking back, I'm like justthankful anything else, just thankful, right,
could have so many things could havehappened that didn't thankfully. So yeah
yeah yeah. So where are youfrom? So? Originally I'm from Illinois.

I went to high school a littlebit in Georgia, moved back to
Illinois, went to grad school inMaryland. I was there for ten years.
During COVID, I moved to Ohio. So that's where I'm currently at,
Nice, Ohio. Do you likeit there? I do not.
Oh, that's very honest. Absolutely. I mean coming from the DMV moving
to Ohio, it's a complete shift. Yeah, the DMV, and it's

popping. Things are going on.Are there are a lot of black people
in Ohio. Well, I'm inColumbus, so yeah, okay, And
I'm sorry if that's an adorant question. I'm just curious. I'm always question.
It's a real question. Can shenot take pictures? Oh? Okay,
Yeah, it's in Columbus City.It's a good mix. We stay

in the suburbs. Okay, youknow, you get your mixture. It's
a lot of Indian it's a lotof different you know, cultures and after
and stuff like that. But yeah, it's it's cool. It's just slow,
you know. Yeah, it's justreal slow. I'm not I'm not
used to it. Yeah, so, but I mean I'm there for now.
I know it's not permanent though,right, it's just a cone in

the road, right exactly. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So how did
you all get into your you knowyour space in terms of the work that
you're doing. So for me,it kind of happened organically. So a
lot of times when we are goingthrough some of the hardest, toughest times,
purpose is born. And so thathas been a theme that I've just

learned to accept in my life.But my daughter actually how I got into
holistic health and herbalism and all thethings. My daughter was. I had
a skin rash. I brought itto the dermatologists. Long story short,
they prescribed her thirty days of antibioticsand I was like, wait, something
about that just didn't resonate, didn'tsound right. I was like, there's

no way I'm given my daughter thirtydays of antibiotics for a skin issue.
And so I sought the help ofa holistic doctor, naturopathic doctor. We
changed her diet, we got heron some herbal supplements, and I kid
you not, within like sixty toninety days, her skin had cleared beautifully.
And I'm like, hold up,hold up, like somebody has tricked

us to believe that, you know, some of the things that we think
are necessary are not actually And soit just opened my eyes and from that
point on I went into a deepstudy of just holistic medicine and herbal medicine
and just got onto this path oflearning to heal my family and myself in

a different way. And so that'show I got started. And from there
I got certified as a health coachand did all the things and took multiple
courses for herbalism. That's how wegot here. That's wonderful. I got
into herbs probably two or three yearsago, when you know, I was
like researching a lot of like doctorSebby's work and like what he had done

in that space and how like reallymiraculous you know, things from the earth
can be and how our body respondsto it. So like I have a
lot of respect for like what you'redoing in terms of your work, because
people don't know, especially in ourcommunity right, Like it's not a mainstream
conversation. Like we don't always haveaccess to the greatest food, and I
just I'm like, we need tomake these conversations more mainstream so that people

can know what's available to them.Yeah, normalize it. I always tell
people sometimes people in the space thatI'm in in herbal medicine can come across
very like whoo, like it's it'shard to attain or it's like sketchy in
some way. And I think normalizingthe conversation and just showing people that it

is an option, like explore allyour options before you just go with whatever
the first diagnosis is right. Andso I think having a conversation about just
normalizing it and making it more accessibleand breaking it down into smaller pieces.
Like a lot of times people getoverwhelmed with so much information, and especially

like with social media, it's somuch stuff coming at you at one time,
all the time, and so Ithink breaking it down and making it
palatable for people to understand it's key. And I think, you know,
sometimes we know so much that wejust want to put it all out there
all at once. Then we can'tdo that. We have to meet people

where they are definitely, And doctorAshley, you're doing stuff in the Waillless
space as well. Yeah. Somy focus is mental and financial wellness.
So I like to say that Ifound my purpose. I found it accidentally
on purpose. So my bachelor's degreeis in criminal justice. So I did
that for quite some time. Iwas working in the juvenile justice system.
And what I found while I wasworking in the juvenile justice system was that.

So we had a psychologist that wason staff and she did groups with
the juveniles. So if you thinkabout anyone that's being detained, it has
to be a staff a trained staffmember whenever detainees go, you know,
somewhere. So she would always selectme, always, and so I felt,
you know, a way, becausethe other staff members kind of got

to lay back on the unit andI had to actually be active and engaged.
It was almost like a break,but I became mesmerized with how the
children were children right, how theywere transformed by the work that they were
doing. But God was really settingme up back then for what's going on

now. Ended up getting pregnant andthen like, you know, I don't
want to do this anymore. Ihate seeing us right come into the juvenile
justice system get flushed out into theadult system and hear you know what I'm
I mean, it's just like anever ending cycle. And so I became
depressed, like I don't want todo this anymore. And so one of

my girlfriends that I worked with inthe juvenile justice system, she told me
to go back to school to getmy master's in social work. I didn't.
I had no idea what social workwas. So I said, well,
what social work? She said,exactly what you're doing now. And
so she helped me to apply toa couple different schools. I only applied
to one because I procrastinated. Iprayed. I said, God, if

I get accepted, me and mydaughter, she was one at the time,
I said, we're gone. Igot an acceptance letter from Morgan State
University. I sold everything in myhome and we trucked it from Illinois to
Maryland and here we are now.And then I made the decision to go
back and get my doctorate, firstin my family to receive a doctoral degree,

because I really wanted to let herknow that, even though there's adversity
that happens in life, if youa made up mind, you can do
an accomplished work whatever you want todo and accomplish. But rewinding back,
while I was at Morgan with someof the toughest financial times of my life,
I mean, there was a pointI was living eviction to eviction,

like, Okay, if I don'tpay my rent on this day, I
have about a couple days before theysend it to the course. Like I
figured out, you know, Imean, it wasn't a healthy system,
right, but it was where Iwas at that time, and it's a
lot of you know, black andbrown women that experience it today. But
through those struggles, I was like, you know, I got to educate
our people on financial health, notnecessarily like insurance, stocks and bonds,

but the real basic level like whereis your money going, why do you
spend the way that you spend?What did your parents teach you about money?
And so that's the work that Ido now that and then you know,
the mental health piece just really takingthings one day at a time.
You know, if you need tobreathe, breathe, if you need to

exercise, don't go into the gymand try to you know, wait,
train and like outlived everybody. Ifyou're just on a treadmill for ten minutes,
that's what you got, Give itall you got and keep it moving.
Mental health is really the foundation ofeverything that we do. That's great
and I love that, you know, you talked a little bit about adversity
because I always say that that's asign that you're moving in the right direction.

Like some people are like, ohgod, I can't go that way,
and I'm like that's exactly where youneed to be going if you're experiencing
adversity, and just like you know, from a perspective of being like mothers
of color, you know, thework that you're doing lends itself, you
know, a lot to the platformthat we built here around maternal like systematically
being able to leverage that type ofadversity so that we can break through systematically

through some of the challenges that aregoing on with the Black maternal health crisis
and like the obstacles that we're experiencingthere as women of color. When you
take a look at kind of whatstatistically is happening in that space, even
around like the mental health aspect ofthat, where do you see your work
and like where do you feel likethere's room for us to improve moving forward?

I think access to care is ais a big thing. And then
once you receive that access to care, advocacy uh. And so for me
and my work, I'm in theprocess of trying to do some perinatal training
right and so mothers that are postpartum, that are pregnant beginning to work do
the work with them so that accessto care is available. And a lot

of times I found if you don'tif the the person that's providing the service,
if they don't look like you,you feel like they're not able to
relate. And so I I knowthat it's important that I'm in the space
to be able to provide the carefrom experience, right as well as from
an educated perspective. So yeah,yeah, that's great. And what about

you? For me? I say, education, knowing there's power, and
just knowing what your options are,and especially l especially like I said it
is, it's so easy to goto a doctor and receive a diagnosis and
think that is the end all,be all, and I am here to
tell you a lot of times,many many times it is not. You

have options. I just think it'simportant that you know what those are.
So seeking extra help outside of whatyou might traditionally think is the way to
go. I think seeking a healthcoach, seeking a holistic doctor, just
taking other steps besides what we've knownto do, and not to be afraid

to do that because I think alot of women are just kind of leery
and they don't know it's foreign.So educating yourself on that and taking steps
to just see what your options are, because there are options out there definitely.
And now just take a look atlike how we build our own family
structures, in our family foundations andcommunities of color, right, and like

how it's not always like normal forus to sit around and have these type
of conversations where it's very normal,yes, and other demographics, right,
So how do you feel like thatwe can help normalize some of these conversations
so they don't feel so foreign tous as a community. Yeah, being
transparent, being authentic, being honestabout where we are and our journeys.

You have no idea how many womenwill DM me about fertility issues, about
fibroids, about all of these womenhealth issues. And I think sometimes there's
a shame, there's a guilt attachedto the things that we experience and we
go through. And because there's notwomen just kind of openly having that dialogue,

it feels like, oh, well, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna
say anything. I don't want Idon't want anybody to know that my body
doesn't work the way it's supposed toor something is wrong with me. So
I think having people like doctor Ashleyand myself speak to some of the things
maybe that we've experienced or that we'veother women may have experienced in our space,

and being really real and honest aboutthose things I think will help m.
So that that's what I believe.Yeah, yeah, that's I think
that's really good for me. Ithink about if something isn't available creating,
right, the creator God, hecreated us in his image, and so
we're all creative beings, but weall don't know how to tap into it.

And so something that I've started isjust like a mommy group, right,
So if it's not available for youcreating something, them people come in.
Will the mothers come in with themommy group and they say, hey,
I wanna learn about you know,mental health, financial health resources for
my child, child care, whatever, I wanna go back to school,

whatever it may be. As acommunity, I believe it's some culture in
Africa they have someone called Susu,right, And so if we can all
collectively come together as a unit,if they're not having a conversation at home,
that's cool, right, Create whatit is that you want, come
together, start to talk about it, and then invite other people in.
And so we're organically growing so thatwe can provide whatever the service may be,

whatever the need is the community knows. We may not know, so
we have to go to them andcreate the space. Yeah, that's really
good. That's good. So asmothers, right, like, what are
some of the challenges that you've faced, like just with motherhood and like now
that you're like these professionals, right, Like your perspective is different, right,
Like once you know so much moreand have access to so much different

information. So how has that changedyour perspective and your experience with motherhood?
Oohie? The pressure is so realbecause you want to impart all the things,
the whole journey, all the lessonsyou want to give that and impart
that. I have a daughter anda son. My daughter's sixteen, and

i just was having a moment theother day and I'm like, is she
prepared? Like, is she preparedto go out into the world? Have
I given her everything that I couldgive? And so as you grow,
as you learn more, and Istart, I was very young when I
had her, right out of college, and so I didn't know twenty something

years old, and now I'm inmy thirties, I'm like, girl,
I knew nothing, okay, absolutelynothing. This was it was all a
trick. But now in my thirties, just having life experience and journeying.
All you can do is love.All you can do is your best and

allow them in, you know,into the journey, into the what you're
going through, so that they knowthat, Okay, life is not all
sunshine and rainbows. But mom knowshow to pull out her journal if she's
feeling a way. Yea, shecan see mom meditating or doing yoga if
she's was a ball of tears rightbefore. So just her being able to

witness those pctices I think are crucialand also gonna be very very beneficial to
her in the long term. Soyou gotta walk it like it talk it.
You just have to allow them,to allow them in to see.
I'm not a mother that says Idon't want my babies to see me cry.
I used to be that way,but my mother was like that and

it did not serve me. Itdidn't because I thought I always had to
be strong. I always had toshow up. There was not and if
I wasn't strong, and if Ididn't show up, then something's wrong with
me. I'm not equipped, Iam not prepared like but it's not that.
It's sometimes we go through life isgonna life, right, You're gonna
go through things, and it's howyou work through those things. So all

that to say, my perspective isto be honest, be open, allow
her in them into whatever it isthat we're going through, and just showing
up and showing practices that can helpthem hopefully in their journey and being vulnerable
in that those experiences because I thinkagain, it's like, we don't teach
kids how to how to like notleverage vulnerability, but like how to deal

with it and that it's okay.Right, So I love that you said
that because I think it is okayto have a moment yeah right and be
transparent Yeah yeah yeah. For me, like I'm just when you speak challenge,
like, I feel like this isa whole other episode, right,
But I just try to keep itreal, raw and authentic because I have
challenge on so many levels. Likenot only am I a mom, I'm

a bonus mom, So I havethat part in that piece to try to
like I went from having like aten year old to like teenagers without experiencing
it, right, So it's like, Okay, I'm trying to navigate that
space and as I'm becoming more andmore successful. Right, I'm bringing her
along the journey so she sees ithaving real, raw, authentic conversations with

her. She's been asking me latelybecause I've been dealing with a lot.
She's like, Mom, are youokay? Are you here? A I'm
like, you know what I am. I just need a moment, you
know. Or if I'm crying,She'll come up and give me a hug,
because there is strength in hugs.There are mental health benefits, right.
There are chemicals in our brains thatget released if I give you a

hug and hold you tight for thirteenseconds, like your mood is going to
completely shift. Right. And sowe're huggers. Me and my baby.
We hug all the time. Wetalk, I journal, exercise, all
of those different things. I justtry to let her know, like I
work so hard because of where Icome from and what I was exposed to.

I'm like, I don't want mychild to experience that. So I
think as mothers, we fight sohard so that our babies don't have to
endure the struggle. Yeah, Butthen I sit and I'll question myself,
like, am I handicapping her?No? And I think culturally, like
you're doing a great thing because Ithink in the black community, I mean

even I remember growing up, Icould see where my parents and were held
back in their childhood and being ableto express themselves because you're like, you
have to be strong and you can'tcry and you can you know what I'm
saying, And it's like and that'sgenerational, right, Like I think that
even comes from some ancestral stuff that'shappened, right, like that trauma that's
passed down, and like you haveto be retrain yourself to be a certain

kind of way, but then ittakes away from you know, you being
able to be in touch with yourhumanity and then we start to struggle with
that as we become adults. SoI love that you're doing this because that's
how it gets broken down, right, And realizing they're their own people who
will have to have their own journeyand we don't have anything, like we
have to allow room in space forthem. That's something I had to come

to terms with because as mothers,you want to protect and yeah, low
key control, navigate if you will, but you have to know that,
Oh I had to go through myown journey and come into myself and they
will have to do this. Butthink about the strength that comes from the
struggle, the strength that's birth fromthe struggle. Like, though she doesn't

have to go through the same strugglethat I want that I went through,
what struggle is she going to gothrough? And what is she going to
gain from that struggle? That adversitypiece. Right. From adversity, I
learned how to be resilient. Sowhen things come, what tools do you
have so that you can use thosetools and bounce back. I also have
a rule, you have five minutesto be in your feelings and then in

jail, we're gonna stay in it, right, That's right? Yeah,
So so talk a little bit moreabout like the work that you're doing and
like what your platform looks like andhow people can you know, engage with
that. Yeah. So I reallyhave a lot going on. Just recently
I began to kind of like takesome things off my place, off of

my plate so I can hone intothe things that I really really want to
do. But I mean, I'mon social media. I have mental health,
is U line? Right? Ihave one on today? Mental health
is learning to just be right.We are human beings, but we get
you this is New York. Lookoutside, people are always on the go

doing, doing, rushing, rushingRussians nowhere exactly, in a hurry to
go nowhere, right, And thenthat affects your emotions. Now you got
an attitude because the person in frontof you didn't move as fast as that,
you know what I mean. Andso sometimes I tell my clients,
I say, you just got tosit back, wake up in the morning,
and just take five minutes. Andif five minutes is too much,

take two. Yeah, it's justsixty seconds. Whatever works for you.
So doing the work in the mentalhealth space, I work specifically with black
and brown women providing therapy. Ialso do in the financial piece. I
have financial workshops, educational things goingon. I was doing some adjunct being
a teacher, being an adjunct professor, and that was cool, but it

was online. So I prefer tobe in person right especially after COVID.
But so those are the things thatI'm really working on right now, just
really my workshop and different courses thatI have going on, educating people on
credit. Because being you know,an African American woman, I was always
told like when you get out ofwhen you get out of high school,
and they send those credit cards.That's a no no. But really,

if you know how to leverage credit, it's a big yez. It can
work in your favorite And it's allabout learning how to use other people's money,
absolutely, OPM. Always we haveto learn how to use other people's
money. We have to learn howto know what's going on with our finances
and what our long term goal isand set ourself up. And like you
said, like it's taken by sizedpieces. We don't have to eat the

whole cake. Just take a pieceof the cake, right and then if
you want another piece, come backlater, but just you know, taking
things one day at a time.Yeah. Yeah, I love the work
that you're doing, especially particularly towomen of color, because I feel like
we're having a totally different experience rightthan our counterparts, especially when it comes
to motherhood and you know, withsome of the stories that we've even told

with on this platform around like someof the birthing experiences and like why it
looks so different in the healthcare systemfor black women. You know, I
love that you're you know, providinga resource there because I feel like sometimes
we're not unlocking the trauma and wedon't know how to connect to it,
and we don't know how to releaseit. So I love that you've created
a specific space we're regardless of whatyou're going through, Like there's a relatability

factor that's there, and then adual approach to it. So there was
a game that I created while Iwas in school. It'll be out soon,
but it's a dual generational approach tofinancial education. And so it's the
child and the child or caretaker andplaying a game together, having conversations about
finance together. If you make ahealthy decision, a healthy financial choice in

life, you move forward. Ifyou make a poor financial choice in life,
you can knock back. That's reallife stuff. And once we start
to talk to our children about it, we can start to stop that generational
curse or barrier or whatever it isis and continue to move forward. So
it's necessary. Yeah, And thenthe work that you're doing like holistically,
like i'd love to hear like someof the solutions that you know mothers can

incorporate even while pregnant, right,because I think we're really tied to this
healthcare system, which it's good andit has it challenges, but there was
also a time where we you knowhad dulas and midwives and it was a
very holistic experience and it was noneof us. Right, Yeah, it

takes the village, and I wouldlove for us to get back to that
space where we implore people, ourmothers and aunts and dulas and midwives to
come in and help us with someof these things. But my platform is
I like to think it's really fun. I think it's really like a lighthearted
approach to something that can be veryheavy. And I am all about holistic

health, meaning people don't realize justhow much what you put into your physical
body manifest into your mental So it'smind, body, and spirit, it's
all connected. I just put upa post not long ago about sugar and
how sugar refined and processed sugar impactsyour mental health. You can't focus,

you have a hard time learning.We have all of our children being diagnosed
with ADHD. Why we have tolook at what we're putting in our bodies,
right, And so I think alsowe don't take in enough the basics
fruits and vegetables, y'all. Wedon't put green stuff on our plates the
way we should, you know.So my thing is small steps lead to

big impact. Guys. So ifyou just take it one day at a
time. And I'm not a hugeadvocate of like going in your kitchen and
throwing everything out, the baby inthe basketball water. Yes, you know,
it's little steps. So learn tointegrate, you know, instead of
eliminate everything, because I think eliminationsometimes when done too quickly, will cause

you like, will cause stagnation.People get nervous, they go they freak
out, Oh my god, thisis too much. They're overwhelmed, and
it's like no, Learn to putsome broccoli on your plate. Learn to
drink a glass of water every day. And you be surprised the number of
people who don't drink water, whodon't eat vegetables, who don't consume fruit.

And I think just knowing the thingsof the earth, being educated about
the plants, the vegetables, theherbs that we have right here at our
disposal, how impactful that can beto our health, not just our physical
bodies, but our mental bodies aswell. And so I'm all about having
fun while doing that. So Ido a lot of juicing on my page.

I have a lot of juicing recipes. You'll see if you go to
get well with l I like totalk about herbs. I'm gonna start doing
like an herb of the week andtaking it one step at a times,
so you can dive into one herband figure out if it works for you.
Consult your medical professional, somebody thatyou know and trust to guide you
along that process. And so forall of my mothers out there and even

I'll start with women who want toconceive. That's been a big thing infertility.
I want young women And I knowthis is kind of off subject,
but it's on. It's related womenwho desire to conceive. For those of
you who are in college, Idon't know if many women know, but
STDs, you guys, are directlyconnected to infertility. So while you're in

college, while you're in school,please protect yourselves, to take care of
yourselves, take care of your bodies. Make sure you know who doing what
with who run you you understand likethat's very important. So that's just a
sidebar. But other than that,just make different choices, better choices for
your body and little little steps,one thing at a time. And for

my mommy's out there who are lactating, who are birthing babies, there's so
many yummy herbs that you can incorporateinto your lifestyle that can help you.
So that is what I'm here todo. Here, to spread the message
about all the things of the earththat are available to us, and we
just don't simply don't know about you, right right, that's great advice.
I'll take even a step further.If you're a young lady, right and

you're out there, you know,I would say try to abstain, yes,
because it's good for your spirit,it's good for you, it's just
all around. And it's just you'regoing to be on a whole other level.
And the person who is deemed worthyfor that God will send along when
the time is right. Yeah,that's so oh because the emotional peace that's

attached. Yes, Like, mydaughter's in middle school right now, and
she's like, yeah, I gota boyfriend, And I'm like, you
know, this middle school it's avery different age, right because their peers
are like priority technically, and soI'm like, so you could be concerned
about a boy that you're interested in, But what if you focused on your

books, right right? What ifyou focused on athletics or really figuring out
what it is you like, whatyou're interested in because you mix in a
little boy or a little girl,and then you have these emotions and these
hormones and then it gets to betoo much and your focus is all off,
and then you know, it's justso much that comes along with it,
like developmentally, our kids they're readyfor that. No, no,

and no one at that age.And I tell it to my daughter,
I'm like, they cannot, andnot that you need anybody to do anything
for you, but like think about, really, what can someone at that
age? And right, so likelet's focus on ourselves and doing what we
need to do, you know,because you have a whole lifetime for that.
You have a whole life time tofigure that out. That's the fact.

And to your point, it doesimpact your spirit totally. It's a
whole exchange. And I won't getinto my whole soul tie conversation because that's
but you know, if there's alot that comes with exchanging yourself spiritually with
someone, and the people come withsome stuff and then you're taking that on,
like you know, that's the mostintimate thing that you can do physically

with right, and it's like someone'snot right. It's just that's why it's
good to get yourself right. First, be good with God, and then
when the time is right for allof that, it'll be an addition,
not a exactly. And the moreyou learn yourself, the better are the
more the quality of the people thatyou attract, what you want to attract

will become much more apparent. You'llget what you want if you learn yourself.
There was a time when I couldnot communicate what it is I wanted
and needed, and I learned throughthe years how important it is to be
able to communicate what you want whatyou want, and you get to say
what you want and you can't it'snobody's fault but yours because you But that

comes with time, that comes withexperience and being patient with yourself. So
yes, we spend more time ortake more time picking out our shoes and
clothes sometimes than we do on pickingpeople. Absolutely, and then we wonder
why when we get stuck with somethingthat we didn't want. It's like,

well, how did I end upwith this? Identify what you wanted?
I have clients now that are like, yeah, I want to be in
a relationship, Like you want tobe in a relationship. What do you
desire to have? What are you'renot negotiables. You to do yourself right
first. Let's master you first.Yes, it's so good, and that's

what this is all about. Likeyou master yourself, then you can master
your motherhood, and then you canmaster your family right, and it's all
like one thing aids the other.Absolutely, yes, absolutely so. I
appreciate you both being here today,eternal. Yeah, So let everybody know
where they can connect with you bothand find out more about what you do.

I am everywhere at get Well withl E L L E on Twitter,
on Instagram primarily everywhere Get Well withl awesome, so you can reach
me. Instagram is doctor d Rdot a L. O. Sims,
Doctor al Sims. I think it'sthe same. On Twitter everywhere else is
Ashley Low Simmons. My website iswww. Dot conversation combos sorry, Combos

with a Clinician dot com. Awesome, awesome, Well, thank you for
being here again. Thank you youand Kenya Gibson. You're listening to me
eternal and until next time,
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