July 15, 2024 • 37 mins
The conversation explores the importance of understanding and advocating for maternal health care, particularly for black women with Nathifa Forde the inaugural Executive Director of NYC Her Future and Deputy Executive Director of the Young Men's Initiative. It emphasizes the need for education, community support, and a more holistic approach to birthing. The guest discusses the systemic barriers faced by black women in maternal health care, including weathering of the womb and biases within the healthcare system. The conversation also highlights the significance of doulas and midwives in providing personalized care and empowering women during the birthing process. The future of black maternal health is envisioned as one that prioritizes community education, supports more midwives and doulas of color, and challenges the monetization of the birthing process.
Takeaways
Education and understanding of one's body are crucial for maternal health care.
Community support and connection are important for better experiences and outcomes.
Systemic barriers, such as weathering of the womb and biases in the healthcare system, affect black women's maternal health.
Investing in more midwives and doulas of color is essential.
Advocacy, asking questions, and trusting one's gut are key in navigating doctor's appointments and the birthing process.
The future of black maternal health should prioritize community education, holistic practices, and postpartum care.
Learn more about NYC Her Future here: nyc.gov/herfuture/
Takeaways
Education and understanding of one's body are crucial for maternal health care.
Community support and connection are important for better experiences and outcomes.
Systemic barriers, such as weathering of the womb and biases in the healthcare system, affect black women's maternal health.
Investing in more midwives and doulas of color is essential.
Advocacy, asking questions, and trusting one's gut are key in navigating doctor's appointments and the birthing process.
The future of black maternal health should prioritize community education, holistic practices, and postpartum care.
Learn more about NYC Her Future here: nyc.gov/herfuture/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
So great, So that was anawesome question. How did I feel when
I was pregnant? So with myfirst born, I was just telling you
how I had undiagnosed proclumsia and thatwas very difficult, right, So my
body was doing all these things,and I was a teenager at the time,
so like I didn't really understand whatwas going on with my body and
that really had nothing to compare itto. And when I had my daughter,
(00:24):
it was like a totally different experiencebecause I was more in tune.
You were more in tune. Yeah, that's important. I always tell people,
like, it's important you learn aboutyour body. I think during this
process I learned so much about mybody and listening to my partner, my
partner also learnt a lot as well. So it's one of those moments where
(00:45):
you're like, oh, there reallyis a moment where we just genuinely don't
know. And it's not that thesefeelings are not familiar. There's other women
who have went through these things.So it's important that we have a community
that we can talk to and tellus like, oh, that's kind of
normal or this is that, becauseif we leave it up to our devices
(01:06):
and try to google and self diagnose. It can become very scary. But
learning about your body is important andthat really kind of starts when you understand
what your womb does. It's reallyreally a powerful thing when you understand this
is what womb health looks like.This is where it be kind of begins
with that type of learning. Butlearning and understanding your body is so key
(01:26):
and so critical to maternal health carefor everybody who's a part of the process.
So I always go if you're thebirth and parent, the non birth
and parent, we all need tobe open to learning. That was a
percent and this is what this wholeplatform is built upon, is learning.
Right. I felt very led afterhaving that not so great experience with my
son that we needed to have aspace for women who look like us and
(01:49):
just community and connection and how wecan help each other just have better experiences
and better outcomes. Right. SoI'm so happy to have this conversation with
you. I want to welcome youofficially to the podcast and the teepe A
Ford. She is the inaugural executivedirector of NYC Her Future and the deputy
executive director of the Young's Men's Initiative, And you're my first pregnant guest.
(02:13):
I'm eternal. I'm so honored.Oh my gosh, thank you, thank
you, thank you, many thanks, and many blessings all around. Super
exciting. Is very serendipitous that Iam launching supporting the city launch a new
office and creating a new office thatis dedicated to support and advance the issues
that young women of color are facingacross New York City. Wow, I'm
(02:37):
essentially carrying in my womb a youngwoman that I will be birth in.
So a lot of these these programsand these things that I'm thinking about are
really kind of heartfelt and touching andclose to me because as we eliminate disparities,
I have to think about the personthat I'm bringing into this world and
what they're going to have to fight. So super excited for those things,
(02:58):
and of course, as I comein from NYC her future leading and creating
that. I have quite a lotof experience doing gender specific work on the
young men's side with the New YorkCity Young Men's Initiative, where I was
to act in ed for quite sometime and really prioritizing and addressing disparities for
our young Black and Latino males acrossNew York City, but also always lifting
(03:19):
up that communities are not literally createdon their own, Like can't just talk
about and serve fifty percent of thepopulation. So super excited. Under this
administration, we were able to createthis new thing, this new office that
is dedicated so that we're serving thecollective. Because when you go in community,
it takes our men, our women, our girls, our boys,
(03:43):
our grandmothers, our aunties, ouruncles. It takes everybody to really kind
of create thriving communities. So hopefullywe'll be able to work together and be
aligned to do that. That's awesome. That's awesome. So why is it
important for nyc her future to supportmaternal health care specifically? For so many
different reasons. So as I thinkabout nyc her future, right and I
(04:05):
think about the future, the futureis essentially ours. There's so many people
who say the future is women.The future is just the future is ours.
And as we birth nations and webirth a lot of these futures,
we do have to make sure thatwe're whole. We do have to make
sure we have a strong understanding ofself. As we started a strong understanding
of self SUTs or the understanding ofour body, our wounds, and making
(04:29):
sure that we're not only just liftingit up and providing, you know,
just talking about it, but alsocreating programs and creating spaces that our young
women and particularly our young women ofcolor, can express and be grounded in
their cultural identity, because I thinkthat's another piece that we don't talk about,
Like, if you have birth andpractices that are indigenous to your community,
(04:51):
that's powerful and we want you toown that and keep that. Yeah,
and we want to make sure thatwe're really kind of doing this merging
of cultures so that we understand whatare the best outcomes for you. So
as we're building out NYC her future, we're really going to prioritize maternal health
care and really start from understanding wombhealth. So thinking about our younger generation
(05:13):
who we're like, y'all aren't havingbabies right now, but what does it
be? What does it even meanto get your mental cycle? What does
that mean? Yeah, that's avery special moment that we kind of go
we dread sometimes we're like, ohmy gosh, I don't want to deal
with this. I kind of wantto sit in the bed, eat ice
cream and I have and I'm feelinglike this, but your body is also
(05:33):
telling you to stop. Yeah,it's telling you to stop. It is
it is, it's telling you tostop. And you know what's interesting,
there's a lot of different components tothat, right, Like, So as
we've started this platform, in thispodcast, we've even had conversations around like
what period poverty looks like, right, And when that term first came up,
I was like, oh my God, Like, I can't believe that
in twenty twenty four in the UnitedStates of America, period poverty is a
(05:58):
thing. Yes, Right, Sothere's there's a lot a lot of these
external conversations around just like what thatlooks like, right, And I just
think that, God, the workis just beginning for us. Yeah,
And I do want to just touchon this because we do have now the
Mayor's Office of Equity and Racial Justice, where NYC her Future sits under.
The New York City Young Men sitsunder the Gender the Commission on Gender Equity
(06:23):
sits under. The Unity Project sitsunder And as I'm saying these things,
the Unity Project focuses on the LGBTQUYplus community. The Commission on Gender Equity,
it is its name and they havea large campaign that they're doing partnership
with public schools that really speak abouta mental cycle campaign. Right, what
does it look like is what wedon't realize. Some people don't even have
(06:47):
the funds to even make sure thatthey have the proper the proper tools,
right, and the proper things thatthey need to really make sure that they
have a healthy mental cycle. Andthat can have health effects on you later
on in life socioeconomically, right,because if you don't have the proper products,
you're less likely to leave the house. Some people don't go to work.
It's a whole thing that people don'trealize exists. And I tell people
(07:09):
maternal health care, if we reallywant to think about it, it starts
then, yeah, because that isthe first time your body is telling you
it's releasing eggs. We're born withall the eggs that we're going to have
as women. Right. But alsoon both sides, it is not just
okay for our women young women tounderstand it. Our young boys need to
understand what's happening in the bodies aswell, and what's happening in their bodies.
(07:30):
Now, we don't have to givethem all information, right, Some
things are sacred, right, somethings are sacred going through womanhood. But
I do think it's important that weunderstand that there are pieces that everybody need
to understand as we're really on thiscampaign to educate people that this is happening
and this is what your body istelling you now. And we're also starting
(07:50):
to see young women dimensional cycles alot earlier, so that's something else that
we have to deal with as well. So as we have a conversation and
a little bit about period poverty,like what are some of the other you
know, systemic barriers that you seeblack women facing right when it comes to
maternal healthcare, so you know,for women of color. And I will
(08:11):
say this, the CDC has hadthis information for quite some time, so
this is not new information and Ialways tell people this, So while it
is now a hot topic for usto discuss, we know in our communities
this is not anything new. AndI can think about times when I've actually
(08:33):
did some work in Baltimore and bemore for healthy babies, and you know,
the Doola work and all of thatstuff started that right, So in
a lot of ways, we're catchingup to the work, but we also
know this is work that needed tohappen years ago. So I will say
we understand the decline of I willsay this black children's being born in America,
(08:56):
but we also understand the decline acrossthe board of babies being born.
And if we take it from that, we have to understand. But what
are the wise And I do wantto just say, while we have a
lot of other disparities that will goto more socioeconomical disparities, there is this
thing called weathering of the womb,and I do think it's important that we
understand what weathering is because as youmay look and present like you're a twenty
(09:22):
seven year old Black woman, yourwomb and your inside because the stress and
the traumas and the things that youhave to navigate on a day to day
basis, you literally probably look likea fifty two year old on the inside,
right, And we don't talk aboutthat. So when I think about
in our communities, just how wenavigate, whether it be interpersonal, whether
it be within the workforce, whetherit be in our educational system, it
(09:46):
is always this place of we're fightingto be the best, and that takes
a toll on our bodies. AndI don't think we understand that and I
don't think we talk about that particularlyenough to our young women about what that's
doing to your inside. So Ialways tell people the weathering effect of the
woman's of the black woman's body isvery real. And when you add other
(10:07):
disparities on top of it, right, So I imagine being in a homeless
the system, imagine being in theyou know, the justice system, trying
to have a baby, All ofthese things take a toll. So for
me, when I think about justthe disparities, it is one understanding from
a larger perspective that there is thatstress is a factor. And we understand
(10:30):
stress in our community, but wesee it more so as oh, you
have high blood pressure. You seethat, but we're not talking about the
weathering that it's doing on your body. And I will say, before I
came in, a colleague of mindsmentioned, oh, you know, this
is something that they spoke about MartinLuther King like he died at this age,
but when they opened his insight,they said, oh, he looked
(10:50):
like such an older man because hewas stressed out. Trying to say he
was stressed out trying to be acivil rights move lead a civil rights movement.
That's stressful, right, so whatdoes that stress look like? So
for me, weathering is one ofthose things, and it is from institutional
racism. It is from the biasesthat we have to show up in.
It is from having to navigate andliterally code switch in different places and can't
(11:16):
showing up as authentic cells sometimes.Those are some of the barriers that I
don't think a lot of people understand. But then also I'll go into the
biggest barrier. It's really our healthcaresystem, right, and the healthcare system
really understanding that when we call somethingout and we say we're feeling something,
it is what we are feeling.It is not it is not something that
(11:39):
I'm making up in my head becauseyou assume that I can tolerate or deal
with the pain. Right, Itis what I'm feeling. And we're seeing
a lot more of this, andI'm so happy that we have a lot
more of our celebrities calling these thingsout explicitly. Serena called it out right,
Alison Felix spoke about it. Youknow, all of these folks are
talking about it. Unfortunately, wejust you know, I'm an Olympic girl,
(12:01):
so I love the Olympics and rantrack and feel so even we had
a young woman just pass away nottoo long ago, forgive me, can't
remember her name, Tori, don'tremember the last name. But yeah,
and these are some of the complicationsthat we can have if our medical teams
and supports just really understand what we'resaying and take the time to be patient
(12:24):
and have a more holistic approach tohow we're going through our birth and process.
And at NYC Her Future, wehave programs that we seek to address
that in the long term. SoI love that you bring up holistic because
I know that you have a DULAprogram, yes, right, that I
learned a little bit about, sospeak about that DULA program and how you
help kind of like get people inthat program and kind of fast tracked into
(12:46):
that space. So one of ourbigger partners for the DULA program is the
City City University of New York City. So we partner with our qunis and
we populated a DULA program at magarEva's College and one at Kingsboro excuse me,
Kingsboro College. And chiefly what itis is to go in and it
(13:07):
had two different focuses to go inand teach current nursing students on what is
a more holistic way to engage withbirth and parents and their partners. So,
do you know what a birthing planis? If somebody comes to you
with a birth and plan, arewe paying attention to it or are we
operating in a space where we're justlike, we want to get you in
(13:28):
and out right, and what doesthat look like to really kind of understand
that more people do want more naturalbirths. It's not just about getting the
cesarean right, So what does thatlook like? And then we also opened
it up to partner with it,like their continuing education programs both at Mega
EVS and Kingsboro to ensure that communitymembers that were interested in becoming doulas are
(13:52):
able to join so that they canget they can join and be a part
of the certification program. So bythe end of the program they receive this
certificate and they can become a licenseddula. So it's thinking more about what
the system needs sure, and thenalso thinking about how the community can be
enriched through those programs. So forus at n Y see her future and
(14:15):
I will say and I will say, you know, it's taken some time,
especially to really think about the systemschange of what needs to happen,
because if we are doula's, wealso have to be mindful that we can't
put too much on the dula's becausetheir advocates, they understand they have a
more holistic approach to things. Butat the same time, when they go
(14:37):
into those facilities, it's still thedoctor that's at the helm of the ship.
It makes all the calls. Sowhat is it like to really kind
of have more midwives entering the spacewho have more license, who have their
license, their licensures and can supportreally kind of the birthen process on their
own without the supervision of a doctor. So it has to be this due
(14:58):
ho and we're working on that.But we're really proud of what we have
now. But we do understand whereare some of the places that we need
to grow in and it's a mindsetshift, right. So interestingly enough,
you know, ancestrally, for us, midwives and dulas were always a thing
right in our community. Right.So now that we've kind of are in
(15:20):
this Western modernization of healthcare, right, we've kind of shifted and pivoted from
that to more of an obstetrics view, which has taken away from our ability
to kind of like like I don'twant to say self preserved, but like
we had an opportunity with midwives anddoulas like at the helm of birthing that
(15:43):
kind of empowered us, not kindof it empowered us as women right to
be able to kind of take controlof what our birthing experiences could look like.
That this is true. And I'llsay I had the opportunity to go
to South Africa in November and participatein a decolonized maternal health care retreat,
and what we notice even go intoa lot of the small the smaller villages
(16:08):
and things like that, you knowin Limpopo, in different places, it
really was when you went there,who was there at the to meet you,
to greet you, to be apart of your birthing process, And
a lot of the things that welearned there is just like some of the
Western ways that we do here isvery much inconvenience of our physicians and not
(16:30):
really natural to our body. Gravitypulls things down. Why am I laying
on a bed given birth? Yeah? Yeah, like that genuinely when you
think about it, And I alwaystell people, let's just be rudimentary here.
Let's just take away. Oh mygosh, I don't know anything.
No, no, no, let'sbe rudimentary. If something falls, it
falls where it doesn't fall up,it doesn't. If it goes sideway,
(16:52):
it rolls right, and you gotto push it out right. So when
you think about just the way wegive birth here in general, it just
doesn't support nature. Right, Sosit laying on our backs with our legs
open and even having an epideral.I tell women, do what's best for
you. You know your pain,you know what you can tolerate. I'm
(17:15):
not going to say anything. Youknow what you can tolerate. But when
does that work? Because everything aboutyour birth and process is not supposed to
be easy, no, and it'snot supposed to not hurt. And it's
literally something inside of you is cracking, it's breaking. You gotta be a
little crazy, but it's breaking.And literally through the process you are literally
(17:37):
exposed, and you're exposed in away where you need to be held,
and you need to be held bythe and I'm going to say this by
the people in your village, right, and however you define community, however
you define your tribe. So duringthat process, you see a lot of
women, it is comfortable. Youcan take more pain when you're standing up.
You can push a lot better ifyou squatting, right, They tell
(18:02):
you now, your dula will tellyou, your midwife will tell you squat
because it prepares your cervix. Right. And as somebody who's going through it
now, like, I'm like,oh my gosh, if I got a
squat again. But when I squatdown, I go, oh my gosh,
this feels comfortable. It's probably amore comfortable position for me than it
is sitting down. Sure, soI always laugh and I go sometimes we
(18:22):
just got to go back to thebasics. And while we're evolving and we're
very smart creatures, the basics arethose indigenous practices that we were doing before.
And I tell anybody, look atany birth in birth and practices you
did across the board. It doesn'tmatter where you from, where you're from,
where your heritage is from, trustme. Those indigenous birth in practices
(18:48):
are the things that we divert backto when we're in pain because it's natural
to us. Right. Oh,no, I need to stand up,
I want to walk around, Iwant to push this out. No,
but everything tells you sit down.Let me relax, you let me do.
No, that doesn't make sense becausemy body wants to be active,
right, because giving birth is active, right, it's not I can't lay
(19:08):
here. I think it makes itworse, actually, right. I remember
with my son, I mean Ifelt like I was giving paperwork to sign
an epidural way ahead of time,like you know, and they prepare you
and they try it, but Ijust felt like I wasn't given many options.
And then with my daughter, likeI remember being in labor for a
long time, but walking around forlike eight hours, and I'm like,
(19:30):
this is kind of better than layingthere and like just focusing on the pain.
So I totally get what you're talkingabout. And I did not have
a birthing plan. See, Andthis is the thing, and the natural
part of it is like I couldtake this standing up, I could take
this. Let me just do mything. Take your hands off of me,
stop touching me, stop doing thesethings. And when you start to
(19:51):
and this is also the other thingwhen we think about just being in a
medical setting, right, it isthe power over right, and that how
we're over of believing that your physicianhas is more knowledgeable, has all of
the accolades that goes, putting themin the space that they're in, that
(20:14):
your lived experience and what you're actuallyexperiencing the moment is not validated. Right.
So if you're saying, I needto walk, I feel like I
need to stand up, I feellike something's wrong, I feel like I
can't feel my toes, something tingle. These are things that you and then
you look at who have you waittime out? Like you gotta go time
(20:36):
out? Flag on a play.Let me step back and let's really have
a conversation on why are you tellingme that what I'm feeling right now is
minor. It's not minor. Theseare my experiences and we need to take
heed to them, and we needto really kind of focus and understand why
I'm experiencing these things. Because everythingthat your body is doing is telling you
(20:56):
to trust your gut, and yourgut is saying right here and doing all
of this is not what's best forme. So when you're in these spaces
and you don't have the knowledge,or your partner doesn't have the knowledge,
it's very hard to feel confident andpowerful to challenge what's being told to you
because you feel like, oh,they know what's best. So that kind
(21:19):
of shift and when I talk aboutthe programs that we do sometimes and why
I you know, thank you Kenherefore for allowing me to just be on
the podcast and talk about it,because it is that knowledge and the understanding
of our bodies that really empower usto make stronger decisions and challenge things kindly.
(21:41):
You got to be kindly challenge thingsand say, hey, I think
we need to we need to relookat this. I know what I'm saying,
something's not right, it's right,and learning how to self advocate.
I remember all the baby books areread when I was pregnant, like what
the baby was doing, like whatstage it was, that, what it
looked like, right, But Ididn't have any real research on like my
(22:04):
own experience and what that was goingto be like and what was happening with
me. Right. So you know, one of my hopes and my goals
of this platform is to do exactlywhat you're doing with your programming, right.
Make sure that women have a spaceto come to so that they can
learn. We can hear each other'sstories, because I think even like just
hearing about your experience and hearing fromother mothers, like I love that synergy
(22:26):
that's created here a lot of timesbecause you can learn a lot from what
someone has gone through, right,and what works and what's not going to
work. Yeah, And I thinkthat's the power of community. Yeah right,
So as we as we live andwe grow, we do this in
community and as somebody who's literally goingthrough the process. And I'm like,
(22:47):
it's a hot summer. It ishot, and the very hot summer.
People check on me. When theycheck on me, they go, how
you doing? Yeah, And Igo, I'm hot. I'm hot.
I go, I'm hot. Yeah, I go, I'm hot, And
like, how are people treating you? I said, I know, I'm
hot. I don't know what totell you. I'm just right. But
it's important that you have people checkon you. And it's important that women
share their stories, right, andhowever you identify, if you're the birth
(23:11):
and parent, you share those storiesbecause those stories are uniquely yours. So
the other thing, when we thinkabout just the spaces, a lot of
the books that were written and alot of the understand the foundational understanding from
a more institutional learning, academic learningwas created by males. Have you given
(23:37):
birth? Like we have to askthe question like, wait a minute,
Jane, how much do you reallyknow? So, yes, they can
tell you about the baby, sure, but they can't really tell you about
the experience your experience is going through. So, as I mentioned earlier,
like something in you cracks when youhave a baby, that this is the
beginning of postpartum, you're different alongof the same person you come out on
(24:02):
the other side, like who amI right? And who is this person?
I will do everything for? Whois this person I'm looking at?
Like, oh my gosh, Idon't eat and some folks, it's honest,
I don't even know what to do. It's the scary part. It's
all of those things. It's thathow can you tell me what that is?
(24:23):
What you can do is offer itto me from your perspective and from
your lens. But you can't offerit to me from this vantage point because
you've never navigated the world as me. So sometimes as we get into these
spaces, it's one of those thingswhere I go step back, allow others
to enter the space and share whattheir lived experiences, and don't impose how
(24:48):
you think I should be navigating basedon how you feel about it. So
when I always go like let's thinkabout these things very rudimentary. So if
everything that we're learning in institutions andacademic institutions, and I also teach right
right, I teach at the QNS, So I go, if we're teaching
this and in practice is something different, then we have to challenge our assumptions
(25:10):
because we're not really preparing people forthe real world. And then we have
to ask ourselves, are we preparingmoms for life after? And that's really
where you start to get into someof the critical pieces of self care and
getting back to who you are,because those feelings are not to be dismissed.
Yeah, what do you hope thefuture of Black maternal health looks like
(25:34):
a few things? I'll start withlike one, just I think we're going
there. We see the numbers ona decline, right, so, and
I think we acknowledge that. SoI think there's a lot of work that
has been done. I also understandthat there's a lot more work to be
done. I do think we shouldreally kind of invest in support more people
(25:56):
becoming midwives and making sure that wehave more midway really kind of being a
part of the process in a realway and supporting more women of color entering
the spaces. The other piece isreally thinking about our communities and making sure
that and this is for me,like I said, I worked in the
gender specific space. But making surethat partners really understand what the process looks
(26:19):
like, right, because it's aroller coaster ride, Like you are hormonal?
Just like why you want to arguewith me? Yeah? Like you
this just leave it alone. Justthis not this conversation not even for you.
I'm having it with you, butit's really not for you having it
with you. It is not foryour part. So what do we think
about you know, community? Right? What does community look like? Really
(26:42):
supporting our women and making sure thatthey have those tribes that they can talk
to. They have places like yourpodcasts where they can listen to and understand
like you're not alone. You haveplaces where you can come and get information
and you can go through go tofor information. Excuse me. And then
the other piece is really on theinstitutional side. We need our healthcare providers
(27:07):
and we need our physicians to bemore open to other practices of birthing.
And I'm gonna say this, Igotta look at my team. But also
just making sure that it's not we'renot monetizing the process as much. And
what I mean by that the numbersof cesareans have gone up, right,
(27:32):
Like everybody doesn't need a C section. Some births can be vaginal, right,
And we shouldn't be pushing this onfolks. We should always try this,
but also making sure that more ofour physicians have an understanding of how
to work with our dulas and ourmidwives to support more holistic birth and practices
across the board, and making surethat we have policies in place, like
(27:56):
we're having to really kind of supportpostpartum care. What does it look like?
Right? Because you are only ashealthy as your mental health, right,
so if mentally you're not healthy andnot ready to go through this,
then what am I really asking youto do? It is unfair right now?
So what does it look like whenyou think about your postpartum care and
how are you preparing for it?But what is that moment that you're taken
(28:18):
back to redefine who you are?Because that's something that we kind of miss
and I trust that all the otherfolks will really kind of have a deeper
understanding or even talk to those things. I always tell people I trust that
the worker get done. I trustpeople are doing the work, but I
think it's some of the smaller piecesof how people feel that we kind of
(28:38):
we miss sometimes because you have tofeel good about your pregnancy, as you
mentioned, Like you said my firstpregnancy, I was like, what is
this? Yeah, I'm done,and innately I just knew it wasn't right.
I'm like, this is just thisis not normal because your gut is
saying this is not right. Buteverything is like, all right, I
could endure it's okay. I canendure that wasn't okay because your gut was
(29:03):
telling you it was wrong. SoI always go back to it starts with
our education, It starts with communityeducation, It starts with our academic and
institutional education and how we're really thinkingabout it. We didn't really get to
talk about just the level of systemicracism that's built in there, but we
know what those things are, andI trust that you will talk about those
things in depth on other shows.But I always tell people like, those
(29:27):
are the things, those are thehurdles that are still remain true to be
and those are the hurdles that wehave to get over. But I do
think there's a lot of work,the investment in more doulas, We need
to invest in more midwives and supportingmore midwives of color entering the space.
And I do think we need tosupport more folks having you know, if
(29:47):
they have access to an opportunity tohave births at home, to have births
in private hospitals, and things ofthat nature. Because it's not a luxury.
So as we're doing these things,I want us to remember, like,
it's not a luxury to have qualityhealth care. It's not a luxury
to have a doula, it's nota luxury to have a midwife. It
is literally the birthright of your childand your womb. So for me,
(30:11):
when I think about what does itlook like, it is making sure that
we're grounded and making sure that ouryoung people have the birthright to enter this
world with folks caring about them.Yeah, because I will always say before
n y See her future got started, I would always tell people I'm doing
this work supporting black and Latino males, But if you don't care about the
(30:33):
wounds that are birth in them,there's no way you're going to tell me
you care about their outcomes. Sofor me, it starts with respecting understanding
what the process is, but understandingwhat the birthright is of that child.
Sure. So, what advice orquick tips do you have for black women
in terms of being more diligent towards, you know, advocating at doctor's appointments,
(30:56):
things that they should be asking for. I will say, so one,
and let me do this right,prepare in advance. So we started
off the conversation Kenya speaking about theeducation that you need, right yeah,
do the work, all the stuffyou have on Google. You're like You're
(31:17):
like, you're like, oh,I don't know about this. Oh they
said this. Write all those questions. Now, go into your physician and
just genuinely be curious about what's happeningand ask those questions. Right. So,
I would say, prepare an advanceand write out everything that you want
to know so you can dispel allthe myths and just have a conversation with
your physician, right yeah, andalso make sure that your interviewing your physician.
(31:42):
I tell people your care starts withyour OB. And if you're hesitant
about your OB, if you're hesitantabout where you'll be birthing it because you
looked at the data, then trustyour gut. This is not the place
for you. And it's okay.I told people, like, personally my
journey, I loved my ob butwhen it was time for me to give
(32:07):
birth, this is not the placefor me. They were good at this.
They're not good with this for me. Yeah, right, and it's
okay. It's okay. So Istart with that, and then I would
the other pieces. Just make sureyou have a supportive person. You need
listen, you need your tribe.Come on, sister girls, you want
to try to do alone? OhI thought I could do it alone because
(32:27):
I was one of those I waslike, I got this, Like my
team would tell you, like,uh, she really didn't say anything.
Now people know she's pregnant, butshe really didn't say anything. The all
time. I was like, oh, I could do this, it's fine.
But when I started to go throughit, I was like, oh
no, yeah, I can't dothis by myself. Right. The other
thing is ask questions, genuinely becurious throughout the process. There are you
(32:51):
know, everybody says this did nodumb questions. They're genuinely no dumb questions.
We're starting from a place of learningand we want to learn. So
being genuinely curious and asking questions.It's probably going to get you a lot
further than sitting down and being quietand taking a lot of the information.
The other pieces. While you're goingthrough all of this, take notes and
keep all of your medical records.It's important that you understand what's happening,
(33:15):
but also important that you understand whereyou are in the process, because sometimes
you go through the process and you'relike, what's next? Where should I
be? And that's how I learned, Oh, this office is not the
best office for me, because I'mtelling you where I should be in the
process and you're like, oh yeah, oh yeah you should. So if
(33:36):
you have to tell your physician ortell your ob this is what I need
and this is where I'm at,then that means you're on top of it
more than them. And trust me, they have a clientele list, they
have a lot of people. Butthen you have to pull back and say,
I need a different level of care. The other thing is, don't
be afraid to request documents. Theytake so much blood from you. I
go how much blood work do Ineed? Right every time you go in,
(34:00):
you start to learn what your bloodwork is showing you understand your iron.
You begin to understand preclamcy, orwhat does it look like? Do
I need to have? Ask?Should I be taking baby aspirin right now?
Understand those things? What is mydosage? Do I need to do
my iron is low? You think, does this mean I'll have to do
a blood transfusion after? Do Ineed to do iron supplements? Now?
(34:22):
Do I need to do some infusediron? You know, you need to
start asking those questions. And thenthe other piece is really kind of understand
your medical history. And this isa piece that I challenge all women know
your family's history. As I wentthrough this process, it was so much
information that was exposed, and Ipromise y'all was sitting now rolling my eyes.
(34:44):
I was just like all my earson this planet, y'all endubt the
vulge none of this. Now I'msitting here pregnant, and you got stuff
to tell me. Right. It'sone of those things where it's just like
if I knew, right like thenI have prepared better, prepared better,
right, Like women share like I'vehad. I have my sister, I
(35:07):
have my sister girls circle. They'lltell me, oh yeah, I had
to take baby aspirin for the preclamsyor did you see my feet swollen up?
That's what that was, right,And to your point of it is
that circle. It is that communitythat you start learning from. But at
the same time we have to talkand share, so that's very critical.
And then the other pieces. Trustyour guts. Trust your gut. I
(35:30):
cannot say that enough when you weregoing to your appointments, Trust your gut.
If you feel a little off,or you feel a little odd,
it is not too big, Itis not too small. Trust your gut
if something feels off. So anddon't be afraid to seek a second opinion.
So as people are preparing, andthis is more so when you're preparing
to go to your physicians, lookingat who should be a part of my
(35:52):
birth and process? Because that's howyou're looking at it. Should you even
be a part of my birth andprocess? This is how you need to
navigate. Trust your gut and don'tbe afraid to ask for second opinions.
You owe nobody anything. The onlything is you want to make sure that
you are giving this person, thislittle being that you're carrying in their wound,
this is their birthright, so giveit to them and your experience as
(36:15):
well. Right, so thank you. Those were great? Thank you.
Yes, So, where can wefind out more about your organization? Oh?
Here we go, So you candefinitely go to You can definitely go
to ww dot NYC dot org forwardslash and y see her future dot gov.
(36:36):
Look NYC dot gov forward slash herFuture. There you go. Yes,
so, thank you so much.You this was very helpful. We'll
have to have you come back.Yes, so when the album is released?
Yes, what do you do?Your album? I am due my
d dates August twenty six. Nice, so the whole summer, okay,
(36:58):
but what excite to bring a babygirl into this as I'm building out NYC
her Future. It is very serendipitous. So nice. Nice. Well,
you're listening to Maternal here on iHeartRadio. I am ken you Gibson here with
Natifa Ford, the executive director ofNYC Her Future and the deputy executive director
(37:19):
of the Young Men's Initiative. Untilnext time. Thank you,
So great, So that was anawesome question. How did I feel when
I was pregnant? So with myfirst born, I was just telling you
how I had undiagnosed proclumsia and thatwas very difficult, right, So my
body was doing all these things,and I was a teenager at the time,
so like I didn't really understand whatwas going on with my body and
that really had nothing to compare itto. And when I had my daughter,
(00:24):
it was like a totally different experiencebecause I was more in tune.
You were more in tune. Yeah, that's important. I always tell people,
like, it's important you learn aboutyour body. I think during this
process I learned so much about mybody and listening to my partner, my
partner also learnt a lot as well. So it's one of those moments where
(00:45):
you're like, oh, there reallyis a moment where we just genuinely don't
know. And it's not that thesefeelings are not familiar. There's other women
who have went through these things.So it's important that we have a community
that we can talk to and tellus like, oh, that's kind of
normal or this is that, becauseif we leave it up to our devices
(01:06):
and try to google and self diagnose. It can become very scary. But
learning about your body is important andthat really kind of starts when you understand
what your womb does. It's reallyreally a powerful thing when you understand this
is what womb health looks like.This is where it be kind of begins
with that type of learning. Butlearning and understanding your body is so key
(01:26):
and so critical to maternal health carefor everybody who's a part of the process.
So I always go if you're thebirth and parent, the non birth
and parent, we all need tobe open to learning. That was a
percent and this is what this wholeplatform is built upon, is learning.
Right. I felt very led afterhaving that not so great experience with my
son that we needed to have aspace for women who look like us and
(01:49):
just community and connection and how wecan help each other just have better experiences
and better outcomes. Right. SoI'm so happy to have this conversation with
you. I want to welcome youofficially to the podcast and the teepe A
Ford. She is the inaugural executivedirector of NYC Her Future and the deputy
executive director of the Young's Men's Initiative, And you're my first pregnant guest.
(02:13):
I'm eternal. I'm so honored.Oh my gosh, thank you, thank
you, thank you, many thanks, and many blessings all around. Super
exciting. Is very serendipitous that Iam launching supporting the city launch a new
office and creating a new office thatis dedicated to support and advance the issues
that young women of color are facingacross New York City. Wow, I'm
(02:37):
essentially carrying in my womb a youngwoman that I will be birth in.
So a lot of these these programsand these things that I'm thinking about are
really kind of heartfelt and touching andclose to me because as we eliminate disparities,
I have to think about the personthat I'm bringing into this world and
what they're going to have to fight. So super excited for those things,
(02:58):
and of course, as I comein from NYC her future leading and creating
that. I have quite a lotof experience doing gender specific work on the
young men's side with the New YorkCity Young Men's Initiative, where I was
to act in ed for quite sometime and really prioritizing and addressing disparities for
our young Black and Latino males acrossNew York City, but also always lifting
(03:19):
up that communities are not literally createdon their own, Like can't just talk
about and serve fifty percent of thepopulation. So super excited. Under this
administration, we were able to createthis new thing, this new office that
is dedicated so that we're serving thecollective. Because when you go in community,
it takes our men, our women, our girls, our boys,
(03:43):
our grandmothers, our aunties, ouruncles. It takes everybody to really kind
of create thriving communities. So hopefullywe'll be able to work together and be
aligned to do that. That's awesome. That's awesome. So why is it
important for nyc her future to supportmaternal health care specifically? For so many
different reasons. So as I thinkabout nyc her future, right and I
(04:05):
think about the future, the futureis essentially ours. There's so many people
who say the future is women.The future is just the future is ours.
And as we birth nations and webirth a lot of these futures,
we do have to make sure thatwe're whole. We do have to make
sure we have a strong understanding ofself. As we started a strong understanding
of self SUTs or the understanding ofour body, our wounds, and making
(04:29):
sure that we're not only just liftingit up and providing, you know,
just talking about it, but alsocreating programs and creating spaces that our young
women and particularly our young women ofcolor, can express and be grounded in
their cultural identity, because I thinkthat's another piece that we don't talk about,
Like, if you have birth andpractices that are indigenous to your community,
(04:51):
that's powerful and we want you toown that and keep that. Yeah,
and we want to make sure thatwe're really kind of doing this merging
of cultures so that we understand whatare the best outcomes for you. So
as we're building out NYC her future, we're really going to prioritize maternal health
care and really start from understanding wombhealth. So thinking about our younger generation
(05:13):
who we're like, y'all aren't havingbabies right now, but what does it
be? What does it even meanto get your mental cycle? What does
that mean? Yeah, that's avery special moment that we kind of go
we dread sometimes we're like, ohmy gosh, I don't want to deal
with this. I kind of wantto sit in the bed, eat ice
cream and I have and I'm feelinglike this, but your body is also
(05:33):
telling you to stop. Yeah,it's telling you to stop. It is
it is, it's telling you tostop. And you know what's interesting,
there's a lot of different components tothat, right, Like, So as
we've started this platform, in thispodcast, we've even had conversations around like
what period poverty looks like, right, And when that term first came up,
I was like, oh my God, Like, I can't believe that
in twenty twenty four in the UnitedStates of America, period poverty is a
(05:58):
thing. Yes, Right, Sothere's there's a lot a lot of these
external conversations around just like what thatlooks like, right, And I just
think that, God, the workis just beginning for us. Yeah,
And I do want to just touchon this because we do have now the
Mayor's Office of Equity and Racial Justice, where NYC her Future sits under.
The New York City Young Men sitsunder the Gender the Commission on Gender Equity
(06:23):
sits under. The Unity Project sitsunder And as I'm saying these things,
the Unity Project focuses on the LGBTQUYplus community. The Commission on Gender Equity,
it is its name and they havea large campaign that they're doing partnership
with public schools that really speak abouta mental cycle campaign. Right, what
does it look like is what wedon't realize. Some people don't even have
(06:47):
the funds to even make sure thatthey have the proper the proper tools,
right, and the proper things thatthey need to really make sure that they
have a healthy mental cycle. Andthat can have health effects on you later
on in life socioeconomically, right,because if you don't have the proper products,
you're less likely to leave the house. Some people don't go to work.
It's a whole thing that people don'trealize exists. And I tell people
(07:09):
maternal health care, if we reallywant to think about it, it starts
then, yeah, because that isthe first time your body is telling you
it's releasing eggs. We're born withall the eggs that we're going to have
as women. Right. But alsoon both sides, it is not just
okay for our women young women tounderstand it. Our young boys need to
understand what's happening in the bodies aswell, and what's happening in their bodies.
(07:30):
Now, we don't have to givethem all information, right, Some
things are sacred, right, somethings are sacred going through womanhood. But
I do think it's important that weunderstand that there are pieces that everybody need
to understand as we're really on thiscampaign to educate people that this is happening
and this is what your body istelling you now. And we're also starting
(07:50):
to see young women dimensional cycles alot earlier, so that's something else that
we have to deal with as well. So as we have a conversation and
a little bit about period poverty,like what are some of the other you
know, systemic barriers that you seeblack women facing right when it comes to
maternal healthcare, so you know,for women of color. And I will
(08:11):
say this, the CDC has hadthis information for quite some time, so
this is not new information and Ialways tell people this, So while it
is now a hot topic for usto discuss, we know in our communities
this is not anything new. AndI can think about times when I've actually
(08:33):
did some work in Baltimore and bemore for healthy babies, and you know,
the Doola work and all of thatstuff started that right, So in
a lot of ways, we're catchingup to the work, but we also
know this is work that needed tohappen years ago. So I will say
we understand the decline of I willsay this black children's being born in America,
(08:56):
but we also understand the decline acrossthe board of babies being born.
And if we take it from that, we have to understand. But what
are the wise And I do wantto just say, while we have a
lot of other disparities that will goto more socioeconomical disparities, there is this
thing called weathering of the womb,and I do think it's important that we
understand what weathering is because as youmay look and present like you're a twenty
(09:22):
seven year old Black woman, yourwomb and your inside because the stress and
the traumas and the things that youhave to navigate on a day to day
basis, you literally probably look likea fifty two year old on the inside,
right, And we don't talk aboutthat. So when I think about
in our communities, just how wenavigate, whether it be interpersonal, whether
it be within the workforce, whetherit be in our educational system, it
(09:46):
is always this place of we're fightingto be the best, and that takes
a toll on our bodies. AndI don't think we understand that and I
don't think we talk about that particularlyenough to our young women about what that's
doing to your inside. So Ialways tell people the weathering effect of the
woman's of the black woman's body isvery real. And when you add other
(10:07):
disparities on top of it, right, So I imagine being in a homeless
the system, imagine being in theyou know, the justice system, trying
to have a baby, All ofthese things take a toll. So for
me, when I think about justthe disparities, it is one understanding from
a larger perspective that there is thatstress is a factor. And we understand
(10:30):
stress in our community, but wesee it more so as oh, you
have high blood pressure. You seethat, but we're not talking about the
weathering that it's doing on your body. And I will say, before I
came in, a colleague of mindsmentioned, oh, you know, this
is something that they spoke about MartinLuther King like he died at this age,
but when they opened his insight,they said, oh, he looked
(10:50):
like such an older man because hewas stressed out. Trying to say he
was stressed out trying to be acivil rights move lead a civil rights movement.
That's stressful, right, so whatdoes that stress look like? So
for me, weathering is one ofthose things, and it is from institutional
racism. It is from the biasesthat we have to show up in.
It is from having to navigate andliterally code switch in different places and can't
(11:16):
showing up as authentic cells sometimes.Those are some of the barriers that I
don't think a lot of people understand. But then also I'll go into the
biggest barrier. It's really our healthcaresystem, right, and the healthcare system
really understanding that when we call somethingout and we say we're feeling something,
it is what we are feeling.It is not it is not something that
(11:39):
I'm making up in my head becauseyou assume that I can tolerate or deal
with the pain. Right, Itis what I'm feeling. And we're seeing
a lot more of this, andI'm so happy that we have a lot
more of our celebrities calling these thingsout explicitly. Serena called it out right,
Alison Felix spoke about it. Youknow, all of these folks are
talking about it. Unfortunately, wejust you know, I'm an Olympic girl,
(12:01):
so I love the Olympics and rantrack and feel so even we had
a young woman just pass away nottoo long ago, forgive me, can't
remember her name, Tori, don'tremember the last name. But yeah,
and these are some of the complicationsthat we can have if our medical teams
and supports just really understand what we'resaying and take the time to be patient
(12:24):
and have a more holistic approach tohow we're going through our birth and process.
And at NYC Her Future, wehave programs that we seek to address
that in the long term. SoI love that you bring up holistic because
I know that you have a DULAprogram, yes, right, that I
learned a little bit about, sospeak about that DULA program and how you
help kind of like get people inthat program and kind of fast tracked into
(12:46):
that space. So one of ourbigger partners for the DULA program is the
City City University of New York City. So we partner with our qunis and
we populated a DULA program at magarEva's College and one at Kingsboro excuse me,
Kingsboro College. And chiefly what itis is to go in and it
(13:07):
had two different focuses to go inand teach current nursing students on what is
a more holistic way to engage withbirth and parents and their partners. So,
do you know what a birthing planis? If somebody comes to you
with a birth and plan, arewe paying attention to it or are we
operating in a space where we're justlike, we want to get you in
(13:28):
and out right, and what doesthat look like to really kind of understand
that more people do want more naturalbirths. It's not just about getting the
cesarean right, So what does thatlook like? And then we also opened
it up to partner with it,like their continuing education programs both at Mega
EVS and Kingsboro to ensure that communitymembers that were interested in becoming doulas are
(13:52):
able to join so that they canget they can join and be a part
of the certification program. So bythe end of the program they receive this
certificate and they can become a licenseddula. So it's thinking more about what
the system needs sure, and thenalso thinking about how the community can be
enriched through those programs. So forus at n Y see her future and
(14:15):
I will say and I will say, you know, it's taken some time,
especially to really think about the systemschange of what needs to happen,
because if we are doula's, wealso have to be mindful that we can't
put too much on the dula's becausetheir advocates, they understand they have a
more holistic approach to things. Butat the same time, when they go
(14:37):
into those facilities, it's still thedoctor that's at the helm of the ship.
It makes all the calls. Sowhat is it like to really kind
of have more midwives entering the spacewho have more license, who have their
license, their licensures and can supportreally kind of the birthen process on their
own without the supervision of a doctor. So it has to be this due
(14:58):
ho and we're working on that.But we're really proud of what we have
now. But we do understand whereare some of the places that we need
to grow in and it's a mindsetshift, right. So interestingly enough,
you know, ancestrally, for us, midwives and dulas were always a thing
right in our community. Right.So now that we've kind of are in
(15:20):
this Western modernization of healthcare, right, we've kind of shifted and pivoted from
that to more of an obstetrics view, which has taken away from our ability
to kind of like like I don'twant to say self preserved, but like
we had an opportunity with midwives anddoulas like at the helm of birthing that
(15:43):
kind of empowered us, not kindof it empowered us as women right to
be able to kind of take controlof what our birthing experiences could look like.
That this is true. And I'llsay I had the opportunity to go
to South Africa in November and participatein a decolonized maternal health care retreat,
and what we notice even go intoa lot of the small the smaller villages
(16:08):
and things like that, you knowin Limpopo, in different places, it
really was when you went there,who was there at the to meet you,
to greet you, to be apart of your birthing process, And
a lot of the things that welearned there is just like some of the
Western ways that we do here isvery much inconvenience of our physicians and not
(16:30):
really natural to our body. Gravitypulls things down. Why am I laying
on a bed given birth? Yeah? Yeah, like that genuinely when you
think about it, And I alwaystell people, let's just be rudimentary here.
Let's just take away. Oh mygosh, I don't know anything.
No, no, no, let'sbe rudimentary. If something falls, it
falls where it doesn't fall up,it doesn't. If it goes sideway,
(16:52):
it rolls right, and you gotto push it out right. So when
you think about just the way wegive birth here in general, it just
doesn't support nature. Right, Sosit laying on our backs with our legs
open and even having an epideral.I tell women, do what's best for
you. You know your pain,you know what you can tolerate. I'm
(17:15):
not going to say anything. Youknow what you can tolerate. But when
does that work? Because everything aboutyour birth and process is not supposed to
be easy, no, and it'snot supposed to not hurt. And it's
literally something inside of you is cracking, it's breaking. You gotta be a
little crazy, but it's breaking.And literally through the process you are literally
(17:37):
exposed, and you're exposed in away where you need to be held,
and you need to be held bythe and I'm going to say this by
the people in your village, right, and however you define community, however
you define your tribe. So duringthat process, you see a lot of
women, it is comfortable. Youcan take more pain when you're standing up.
You can push a lot better ifyou squatting, right, They tell
(18:02):
you now, your dula will tellyou, your midwife will tell you squat
because it prepares your cervix. Right. And as somebody who's going through it
now, like, I'm like,oh my gosh, if I got a
squat again. But when I squatdown, I go, oh my gosh,
this feels comfortable. It's probably amore comfortable position for me than it
is sitting down. Sure, soI always laugh and I go sometimes we
(18:22):
just got to go back to thebasics. And while we're evolving and we're
very smart creatures, the basics arethose indigenous practices that we were doing before.
And I tell anybody, look atany birth in birth and practices you
did across the board. It doesn'tmatter where you from, where you're from,
where your heritage is from, trustme. Those indigenous birth in practices
(18:48):
are the things that we divert backto when we're in pain because it's natural
to us. Right. Oh,no, I need to stand up,
I want to walk around, Iwant to push this out. No,
but everything tells you sit down.Let me relax, you let me do.
No, that doesn't make sense becausemy body wants to be active,
right, because giving birth is active, right, it's not I can't lay
(19:08):
here. I think it makes itworse, actually, right. I remember
with my son, I mean Ifelt like I was giving paperwork to sign
an epidural way ahead of time,like you know, and they prepare you
and they try it, but Ijust felt like I wasn't given many options.
And then with my daughter, likeI remember being in labor for a
long time, but walking around forlike eight hours, and I'm like,
(19:30):
this is kind of better than layingthere and like just focusing on the pain.
So I totally get what you're talkingabout. And I did not have
a birthing plan. See, Andthis is the thing, and the natural
part of it is like I couldtake this standing up, I could take
this. Let me just do mything. Take your hands off of me,
stop touching me, stop doing thesethings. And when you start to
(19:51):
and this is also the other thingwhen we think about just being in a
medical setting, right, it isthe power over right, and that how
we're over of believing that your physicianhas is more knowledgeable, has all of
the accolades that goes, putting themin the space that they're in, that
(20:14):
your lived experience and what you're actuallyexperiencing the moment is not validated. Right.
So if you're saying, I needto walk, I feel like I
need to stand up, I feellike something's wrong, I feel like I
can't feel my toes, something tingle. These are things that you and then
you look at who have you waittime out? Like you gotta go time
(20:36):
out? Flag on a play.Let me step back and let's really have
a conversation on why are you tellingme that what I'm feeling right now is
minor. It's not minor. Theseare my experiences and we need to take
heed to them, and we needto really kind of focus and understand why
I'm experiencing these things. Because everythingthat your body is doing is telling you
(20:56):
to trust your gut, and yourgut is saying right here and doing all
of this is not what's best forme. So when you're in these spaces
and you don't have the knowledge,or your partner doesn't have the knowledge,
it's very hard to feel confident andpowerful to challenge what's being told to you
because you feel like, oh,they know what's best. So that kind
(21:19):
of shift and when I talk aboutthe programs that we do sometimes and why
I you know, thank you Kenherefore for allowing me to just be on
the podcast and talk about it,because it is that knowledge and the understanding
of our bodies that really empower usto make stronger decisions and challenge things kindly.
(21:41):
You got to be kindly challenge thingsand say, hey, I think
we need to we need to relookat this. I know what I'm saying,
something's not right, it's right,and learning how to self advocate.
I remember all the baby books areread when I was pregnant, like what
the baby was doing, like whatstage it was, that, what it
looked like, right, But Ididn't have any real research on like my
(22:04):
own experience and what that was goingto be like and what was happening with
me. Right. So you know, one of my hopes and my goals
of this platform is to do exactlywhat you're doing with your programming, right.
Make sure that women have a spaceto come to so that they can
learn. We can hear each other'sstories, because I think even like just
hearing about your experience and hearing fromother mothers, like I love that synergy
(22:26):
that's created here a lot of timesbecause you can learn a lot from what
someone has gone through, right,and what works and what's not going to
work. Yeah, And I thinkthat's the power of community. Yeah right,
So as we as we live andwe grow, we do this in
community and as somebody who's literally goingthrough the process. And I'm like,
(22:47):
it's a hot summer. It ishot, and the very hot summer.
People check on me. When theycheck on me, they go, how
you doing? Yeah, And Igo, I'm hot. I'm hot.
I go, I'm hot. Yeah, I go, I'm hot, And
like, how are people treating you? I said, I know, I'm
hot. I don't know what totell you. I'm just right. But
it's important that you have people checkon you. And it's important that women
share their stories, right, andhowever you identify, if you're the birth
(23:11):
and parent, you share those storiesbecause those stories are uniquely yours. So
the other thing, when we thinkabout just the spaces, a lot of
the books that were written and alot of the understand the foundational understanding from
a more institutional learning, academic learningwas created by males. Have you given
(23:37):
birth? Like we have to askthe question like, wait a minute,
Jane, how much do you reallyknow? So, yes, they can
tell you about the baby, sure, but they can't really tell you about
the experience your experience is going through. So, as I mentioned earlier,
like something in you cracks when youhave a baby, that this is the
beginning of postpartum, you're different alongof the same person you come out on
(24:02):
the other side, like who amI right? And who is this person?
I will do everything for? Whois this person I'm looking at?
Like, oh my gosh, Idon't eat and some folks, it's honest,
I don't even know what to do. It's the scary part. It's
all of those things. It's thathow can you tell me what that is?
(24:23):
What you can do is offer itto me from your perspective and from
your lens. But you can't offerit to me from this vantage point because
you've never navigated the world as me. So sometimes as we get into these
spaces, it's one of those thingswhere I go step back, allow others
to enter the space and share whattheir lived experiences, and don't impose how
(24:48):
you think I should be navigating basedon how you feel about it. So
when I always go like let's thinkabout these things very rudimentary. So if
everything that we're learning in institutions andacademic institutions, and I also teach right
right, I teach at the QNS, So I go, if we're teaching
this and in practice is something different, then we have to challenge our assumptions
(25:10):
because we're not really preparing people forthe real world. And then we have
to ask ourselves, are we preparingmoms for life after? And that's really
where you start to get into someof the critical pieces of self care and
getting back to who you are,because those feelings are not to be dismissed.
Yeah, what do you hope thefuture of Black maternal health looks like
(25:34):
a few things? I'll start withlike one, just I think we're going
there. We see the numbers ona decline, right, so, and
I think we acknowledge that. SoI think there's a lot of work that
has been done. I also understandthat there's a lot more work to be
done. I do think we shouldreally kind of invest in support more people
(25:56):
becoming midwives and making sure that wehave more midway really kind of being a
part of the process in a realway and supporting more women of color entering
the spaces. The other piece isreally thinking about our communities and making sure
that and this is for me,like I said, I worked in the
gender specific space. But making surethat partners really understand what the process looks
(26:19):
like, right, because it's aroller coaster ride, Like you are hormonal?
Just like why you want to arguewith me? Yeah? Like you
this just leave it alone. Justthis not this conversation not even for you.
I'm having it with you, butit's really not for you having it
with you. It is not foryour part. So what do we think
about you know, community? Right? What does community look like? Really
(26:42):
supporting our women and making sure thatthey have those tribes that they can talk
to. They have places like yourpodcasts where they can listen to and understand
like you're not alone. You haveplaces where you can come and get information
and you can go through go tofor information. Excuse me. And then
the other piece is really on theinstitutional side. We need our healthcare providers
(27:07):
and we need our physicians to bemore open to other practices of birthing.
And I'm gonna say this, Igotta look at my team. But also
just making sure that it's not we'renot monetizing the process as much. And
what I mean by that the numbersof cesareans have gone up, right,
(27:32):
Like everybody doesn't need a C section. Some births can be vaginal, right,
And we shouldn't be pushing this onfolks. We should always try this,
but also making sure that more ofour physicians have an understanding of how
to work with our dulas and ourmidwives to support more holistic birth and practices
across the board, and making surethat we have policies in place, like
(27:56):
we're having to really kind of supportpostpartum care. What does it look like?
Right? Because you are only ashealthy as your mental health, right,
so if mentally you're not healthy andnot ready to go through this,
then what am I really asking youto do? It is unfair right now?
So what does it look like whenyou think about your postpartum care and
how are you preparing for it?But what is that moment that you're taken
(28:18):
back to redefine who you are?Because that's something that we kind of miss
and I trust that all the otherfolks will really kind of have a deeper
understanding or even talk to those things. I always tell people I trust that
the worker get done. I trustpeople are doing the work, but I
think it's some of the smaller piecesof how people feel that we kind of
(28:38):
we miss sometimes because you have tofeel good about your pregnancy, as you
mentioned, Like you said my firstpregnancy, I was like, what is
this? Yeah, I'm done,and innately I just knew it wasn't right.
I'm like, this is just thisis not normal because your gut is
saying this is not right. Buteverything is like, all right, I
could endure it's okay. I canendure that wasn't okay because your gut was
(29:03):
telling you it was wrong. SoI always go back to it starts with
our education, It starts with communityeducation, It starts with our academic and
institutional education and how we're really thinkingabout it. We didn't really get to
talk about just the level of systemicracism that's built in there, but we
know what those things are, andI trust that you will talk about those
things in depth on other shows.But I always tell people like, those
(29:27):
are the things, those are thehurdles that are still remain true to be
and those are the hurdles that wehave to get over. But I do
think there's a lot of work,the investment in more doulas, We need
to invest in more midwives and supportingmore midwives of color entering the space.
And I do think we need tosupport more folks having you know, if
(29:47):
they have access to an opportunity tohave births at home, to have births
in private hospitals, and things ofthat nature. Because it's not a luxury.
So as we're doing these things,I want us to remember, like,
it's not a luxury to have qualityhealth care. It's not a luxury
to have a doula, it's nota luxury to have a midwife. It
is literally the birthright of your childand your womb. So for me,
(30:11):
when I think about what does itlook like, it is making sure that
we're grounded and making sure that ouryoung people have the birthright to enter this
world with folks caring about them.Yeah, because I will always say before
n y See her future got started, I would always tell people I'm doing
this work supporting black and Latino males, But if you don't care about the
(30:33):
wounds that are birth in them,there's no way you're going to tell me
you care about their outcomes. Sofor me, it starts with respecting understanding
what the process is, but understandingwhat the birthright is of that child.
Sure. So, what advice orquick tips do you have for black women
in terms of being more diligent towards, you know, advocating at doctor's appointments,
(30:56):
things that they should be asking for. I will say, so one,
and let me do this right,prepare in advance. So we started
off the conversation Kenya speaking about theeducation that you need, right yeah,
do the work, all the stuffyou have on Google. You're like You're
(31:17):
like, you're like, oh,I don't know about this. Oh they
said this. Write all those questions. Now, go into your physician and
just genuinely be curious about what's happeningand ask those questions. Right. So,
I would say, prepare an advanceand write out everything that you want
to know so you can dispel allthe myths and just have a conversation with
your physician, right yeah, andalso make sure that your interviewing your physician.
(31:42):
I tell people your care starts withyour OB. And if you're hesitant
about your OB, if you're hesitantabout where you'll be birthing it because you
looked at the data, then trustyour gut. This is not the place
for you. And it's okay.I told people, like, personally my
journey, I loved my ob butwhen it was time for me to give
(32:07):
birth, this is not the placefor me. They were good at this.
They're not good with this for me. Yeah, right, and it's
okay. It's okay. So Istart with that, and then I would
the other pieces. Just make sureyou have a supportive person. You need
listen, you need your tribe.Come on, sister girls, you want
to try to do alone? OhI thought I could do it alone because
(32:27):
I was one of those I waslike, I got this, Like my
team would tell you, like,uh, she really didn't say anything.
Now people know she's pregnant, butshe really didn't say anything. The all
time. I was like, oh, I could do this, it's fine.
But when I started to go throughit, I was like, oh
no, yeah, I can't dothis by myself. Right. The other
thing is ask questions, genuinely becurious throughout the process. There are you
(32:51):
know, everybody says this did nodumb questions. They're genuinely no dumb questions.
We're starting from a place of learningand we want to learn. So
being genuinely curious and asking questions.It's probably going to get you a lot
further than sitting down and being quietand taking a lot of the information.
The other pieces. While you're goingthrough all of this, take notes and
keep all of your medical records.It's important that you understand what's happening,
(33:15):
but also important that you understand whereyou are in the process, because sometimes
you go through the process and you'relike, what's next? Where should I
be? And that's how I learned, Oh, this office is not the
best office for me, because I'mtelling you where I should be in the
process and you're like, oh yeah, oh yeah you should. So if
(33:36):
you have to tell your physician ortell your ob this is what I need
and this is where I'm at,then that means you're on top of it
more than them. And trust me, they have a clientele list, they
have a lot of people. Butthen you have to pull back and say,
I need a different level of care. The other thing is, don't
be afraid to request documents. Theytake so much blood from you. I
go how much blood work do Ineed? Right every time you go in,
(34:00):
you start to learn what your bloodwork is showing you understand your iron.
You begin to understand preclamcy, orwhat does it look like? Do
I need to have? Ask?Should I be taking baby aspirin right now?
Understand those things? What is mydosage? Do I need to do
my iron is low? You think, does this mean I'll have to do
a blood transfusion after? Do Ineed to do iron supplements? Now?
(34:22):
Do I need to do some infusediron? You know, you need to
start asking those questions. And thenthe other piece is really kind of understand
your medical history. And this isa piece that I challenge all women know
your family's history. As I wentthrough this process, it was so much
information that was exposed, and Ipromise y'all was sitting now rolling my eyes.
(34:44):
I was just like all my earson this planet, y'all endubt the
vulge none of this. Now I'msitting here pregnant, and you got stuff
to tell me. Right. It'sone of those things where it's just like
if I knew, right like thenI have prepared better, prepared better,
right, Like women share like I'vehad. I have my sister, I
(35:07):
have my sister girls circle. They'lltell me, oh yeah, I had
to take baby aspirin for the preclamsyor did you see my feet swollen up?
That's what that was, right,And to your point of it is
that circle. It is that communitythat you start learning from. But at
the same time we have to talkand share, so that's very critical.
And then the other pieces. Trustyour guts. Trust your gut. I
(35:30):
cannot say that enough when you weregoing to your appointments, Trust your gut.
If you feel a little off,or you feel a little odd,
it is not too big, Itis not too small. Trust your gut
if something feels off. So anddon't be afraid to seek a second opinion.
So as people are preparing, andthis is more so when you're preparing
to go to your physicians, lookingat who should be a part of my
(35:52):
birth and process? Because that's howyou're looking at it. Should you even
be a part of my birth andprocess? This is how you need to
navigate. Trust your gut and don'tbe afraid to ask for second opinions.
You owe nobody anything. The onlything is you want to make sure that
you are giving this person, thislittle being that you're carrying in their wound,
this is their birthright, so giveit to them and your experience as
(36:15):
well. Right, so thank you. Those were great? Thank you.
Yes, So, where can wefind out more about your organization? Oh?
Here we go, So you candefinitely go to You can definitely go
to ww dot NYC dot org forwardslash and y see her future dot gov.
(36:36):
Look NYC dot gov forward slash herFuture. There you go. Yes,
so, thank you so much.You this was very helpful. We'll
have to have you come back.Yes, so when the album is released?
Yes, what do you do?Your album? I am due my
d dates August twenty six. Nice, so the whole summer, okay,
(36:58):
but what excite to bring a babygirl into this as I'm building out NYC
her Future. It is very serendipitous. So nice. Nice. Well,
you're listening to Maternal here on iHeartRadio. I am ken you Gibson here with
Natifa Ford, the executive director ofNYC Her Future and the deputy executive director
(37:19):
of the Young Men's Initiative. Untilnext time. Thank you,
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