Pine Street Inn's Push for Permanent Supportive Housing in Greater Boston

The Massachusetts emergency shelter system is officially overburdened, according to state data, and officials say they have to turn away families while putting them on a waitlist. While the ongoing migrant crisis is contributing to this, there are other factors forcing residents onto the streets, including inflation and the skyrocketing cost of housing. Pine Street Inn in Boston has been working for years to create more permanent supportive housing in the Boston area, hoping to uplift those who find themselves at their lowest and help them get back on their feet. Lyndia Downie returns to the show to update Nichole on their efforts and talk about what's fueling the Commonwealth's housing emergency.

Episode Transcript

(00:07):
From WBZ News Radio in Boston.This is New England Weekend. Each week
we come together and talk about allthe topics important to you and the place
where you live. So good tobe back with you again this week.
I'm Nicole Davis. Well. It'sofficial. The state's emergency shelter system has
reached crisis mode in Massachusetts. Daysago, the number of families who checked

(00:27):
themselves into the system for support notonly reached the cap imposed by the governor,
but breached it. Now the stateis turning away families who need assistance,
officials saying there's no way they canhelp. This is not just migrant
families, although migrants coming to Massachusettscertainly have exacerbated the system. We also
need to remember, though, there'sbeen a housing crisis going on, especially

(00:49):
in the Boston area for quite sometime now. Pine Street Inn has been
front and center during this fight againsthomelessness. They have all kinds of resources
trying to get services and support outto anybody who suddenly finds themselves without a
shelter. Lyndia Downey from Pine Streetback here on the show with us Now,
Lindy, is so good to haveyou here again. My first thought,
how is Pine Street impacted by allthe strain on the shelter system that

(01:14):
we've been talking about here. Mostof the most recent press around this nicole
has really been focused on families.So the family numbers have been growing substantially
for the past probably about the pastyear. The number is almost double what
it was a year ago, whichmeant it's gone from about thirty two hundred

(01:34):
families in shelter to over seven thousand, and that's the equivalent of about twenty
almost twenty four thousand people between youknow, kids and other family members.
We have a right to shelter inMassachusetts for families only, not for individuals.
On the individual side, which isreally where Pine Street works and where
our shelter beds are, we areseeing an increase as well. We are

(01:57):
typically we bring up up a numberof overflow beds for the winter so that
as the weather gets colder and morepeople show up, we have capacity.
We typically would not even think aboutbringing those beds up until November fifteenth.
We brought them all online about amonth ago. So we are seeing,
you know, increased demand on theindividual side as well. And while immigration

(02:23):
is driving some of it, it'snot driving all of it. We think
that's probably driving twenty to thirty percentof the new demand on the individual side.
But there's people showing up, youknow, on a regular basis that
are not coming from other countries aswell. What do you think is driving
that uptick? Because obviously I'm assuminginflation. The housing market the way it

(02:44):
is, I mean, there's somany factors here. What are you seeing
from these people who are showing upat your doorstep? You know, I
think there is There's a lot offactors, and I wouldn't be able to
say we could point to one thing, but there are a couple of I
think pretty consistent things we're hearing frompeople. One is the rental market.

(03:04):
We have one of the lowest vacancyrates in the country. And if for
whatever reason, you lose your housing, whether you're doubled up, whether there's
something behavioral going on, and thereoften is with people, whether there's some
kind of family conflict. Once youlose wherever you're staying, whether you're on
the lease or whether you're couch surfing, or you have your own apartment,

(03:25):
once you lose it, people cannotfind other units to move into. They
can't afford them. I can't findthem, frankly because there's such a low
vacancy rate, so we're hearing alot of that. You know, the
eviction moratorium is over. It wasput in place during COVID, and it
takes time for evictions to go throughthe courts. So even though that moratorium

(03:50):
was lifted many months ago, that'show long it takes sometimes to see the
impact of these kind of things.I think inflation absolutely in terms of rental
increases, so I think it's allof it. The other thing I would
say, and I don't know thatwe have great data on this, is
that for people who are trying toget substance use help or behavioral health help,

(04:16):
those systems are really constrained right nowtoo, and there's not enough capacity
there. And when people can't getinto treatment sometimes or they need behavior favorite
health support and they can't find accessto that, they often end up on
the streets, are in shelter.It sounds like a tsunami that's really hitting
all of these networks at once,and it's frustrating, I'm sure for people

(04:40):
like you who are on the sideof trying to provide these services, right
because you see this demand, youknow that the normal places you would send
people for state assistants or local assistantsor federal assistants. They're overburdened as well.
So it's just like it seems likea game of dominoes here. It's
just, you know, one afterthe other after the other. I mean,
where do we stop? How dowe pull back from this? Well?

(05:01):
I wish I had that answer.Frankly, I do think there are
a few things that we need tokeep doing. We need to keep working
on affordable housing because long term thathas got to be We've got to focus
on the solution now. We havegot to come up with enough capacity and
the short term, we can't fixthe immigration problem in Massachusetts without federal help.

(05:23):
And we really do need the federalgovernment to be part of this solution
here, not just the administration atthe federal level. You need the House
and the Senate to really be comingup with reasonable immigration rules and policies that
impact the numbers, right, Andthat's not easy, as we all know.

(05:45):
But we are seeing a result ofsome of that federal dysfunction, you
know, and other not just inMassachusetts, other states are seeing it as
well. So you have to focuson that long term solution. I think
in the short term, you know, we've got to figure out what do
we do to make sure people areending up outside families or individuals, and
you know, are there sites wecan open? Are their additional things all

(06:09):
of us can do? You know, we're looking at what else can we
do? What is interesting right now, Nicole is some of it is space,
some of it's staffing. Frankly,you know, our staff have worked
extraordinarily hard. You know, theywere on the ground all through COVID.
They were not working remotely, andyou know, people are tired. We

(06:31):
have a higher vacancy rate than wehad pre COVID, and you need enough,
you know, staff on the groundto run these programs. And I
think that's constraining us, not justus, but some of these other systems.
I think the hospitals are feeling it. And you know, the fewer
options the hospitals have, for example, to send people to other sites,
the more backed up they get andthat and turn backs up shelter. So

(06:56):
it's a very to your point.I think we've got a bit of us
soon now going on at the moment. Yeah, And of course, you
being so closely involved with the massand cast situation and all of those removals
that happened, the sweep that happeneda couple of weeks ago. I mean,
how is that impacting you over atPine Street. So the city really

(07:16):
went in with a collaboration of providersand the police and you know, enacted
the forty eight hour rule to gavepeople forty aur notice. The city,
to their credit, did have analternative for people. We set aside a
handful of beds for anybody coming frommass cast, both in our shelter and

(07:38):
in our low barrier shelter. Wehad a handful of people, honestly,
Nicole, it took us up onthat, but not everybody did. Some
people went to the cities, Thecity opened some additional beds, some people
went into treatment, and then somepeople frankly, just moved on. So
we didn't see a big impact frompeople coming in. Our street team is

(07:59):
working with some of the people whodecided not to come in. They've you
know, staying elsewhere in the citythere, you know, don't want to
come into shelter right now. We'llsee as the weather gets colder if that
changes for people. We're engaging withthem saying, you know, we'll find
a spot for you if you wantto come in. But it's you know,
as you know, it's a verycomplicated set of circumstances for people.

(08:24):
Talk to us about why people wouldnot want to come into shelter. I
think that's some listeners. They've askedme a few times, like, why
would somebody want to stay on thestreets in the adverse conditions? Tell us
about that. Yeah, let melet me do a little bit of tabable
setting on this. You know,Boston, interestingly enough, about three percent
of our overall individual homelessness population sleepsoutside. So that means of that means

(08:48):
that, you know, ninety sevenpercent of the people that are homeless in
the city come into shelter, Soit's a small segment that doesn't come in.
To compare us to San Francisco orLa over fifty percent of the people
in those cities sleep outside. Peoplesay to me, it's the weather.
I think the weather might have avery slight influence on this, but it's

(09:09):
not. Even if you doubled ournumber from three percent to six percent,
doesn't even get you close to thefifty percent. Right, So we've done
a good job maintaining shelter keeping sheltercapacity available for people, making sure it's
low barrier. I think there's agroup of people, some of whom have
had a bad experience in shelter.You know, we're crowded right now,
we are the city shelter is forsome people that's really challenging. I think

(09:33):
we have a diverse group of peoplein shelter, diverse in every sense of
the word. Right. We haveevery age. We have people with that
are struggling with mental health, withsubstance views. We have people that are
just they've fallen on really hard timesand they're just looking to go back to
work and find housing, and thatcan be a lot to navigate. I

(09:56):
will say this that for people whoare actively using, especially people that are
u using these opioids that are reallydifficult to treat, like fentanyl, people
have to people are using you know, a couple of times an hour,
right, So you have to ifyou're not going to get really sick and
coming to shelter may not fit thatparticular need right now. And so I

(10:20):
think for some people right now,they are so sick and they're you know,
struggling with what's in front of them, and shelter isn't conducive to being
able to use like that all thetime, and I think that's made this
more complicated frankly for shelters and forpeople that we're trying to help. Yeah,
of course, because you want tohave everybody have a roof over their

(10:41):
head, but they're the problem ofaddiction. There are so many factors to
that in itself, right, Imean, it's too much for just one
system to handle. So I canunderstand that you have been I think one
of the city's biggest forward thinking agencieswhen it comes to permanent support housing,
and that is one of your biggest, your biggest pushes. I think at

(11:05):
this point you have done a lotof great work, and I know you're
still doing a lot of great worktrying to find more vacancy. Give us
an update about what's been going onwith that. So I am really proud
to say we are at nine hundredand sixty units of supportive housing. You
know, we had a goal toget to one thousand units, and we
are probably about six months away fromthat. You know, we're still doing

(11:28):
the emergency work, we're still doingstreet outreach, but really, you know,
to the earlier discussion we had youhave to focus on the short term
and help people with the emergency,but you have to keep the long term
vision in place. So you know, we've just with Beacon Companies. We're
almost fully leased up on one fortyClaren History at the OYWCA, right right

(11:52):
in the back bay. We're almostfull. I think we've got one hundred
and eleven units. We've got abouteighty five or ninety tenants in already,
and we've had a great experience workingwith Beacon and getting that building leased.
We have another building that we're workingon with community builders in Jamaica Plane.
We're hoping to lease that up maybethis spring, but it's been as we

(12:13):
struggle with all of the issues thatyou just raised. If we don't keep
the supply, we've got a hugesupply problem in Boston for everybody, not
just the poorest people. And unfortunatelyfor many of the people we're trying to
house, it's hard for them tobe competitive in market rate rents. They
can't afford it. They often can'tcompete with everybody else who's looking for housing

(12:39):
in Boston. So it's we knowit's not just confined to homeless people,
but homeless people are feeling it probablymore than any more than anyone else in
the city. Yeah, I'm sure. And you've got a couple of You've
got a couple of projects in thefire. You mentioned Jamaica Plane, You've
got the what was the Comfort inDorchester. Yep, you're working on that
as well. Bit by bit you'rekind of clooning away at this issue.

(13:01):
But when it comes to that supply, how are you getting access to these
buildings to work with? Are you? Who are you working with to get
that done? So, you know, for a long time, Pine Street
was we were our own developer,and we you know, went out and
found found buildings and we put togethera construction team and a project team.
More and more we are asking forhelp from other developers because what we are

(13:22):
good at is helping homeless people gethousing and helping them keep it because of
the it's not just housing, it'shousing plus support. And so we have
you know, the project on MorriseyBoulevard is with Community Builders. We found
that site together. We have agreedwe you know, like to do more

(13:43):
of this. So I would puta shout out to anybody who would love
to work with us. Frankly,you know, we're interest in sites,
and we're interested sites where we couldget some scale. So you know,
it's sometimes there are buildings that arequick, you know, easy, let
me put it that way, easilyadaptable to the kind of housing we like

(14:03):
to build and build with our partners. The hotel, for example, we're
building these small studio apartments right now. They're between three hundred and fifty and
four hundred square feet. They've gota bathroom, a small kitchenette in a
room for a bed addresser, asmall kitchen table. We typically add some
community space. Hotels are actually prettyeasy to convert. They've already got bathrooms,

(14:24):
you know, square footage works.There's a lot of amenities and hotels
that make them easily convertible for singlepeople. So it's been very exciting,
and you know, we're we're alwaysout there really looking to see what the
other opportunities are for sure. Andthen you know, where does the funding
come for all of this because itis certainly not cheap, as you mentioned,

(14:48):
to even get into housing, butpurchasing the buildings and doing the renovations
and then keeping everything the upkeep forall this housing. Yeah, where is
the money coming from? Yeah?Well, we think about that a lot.
I would say, there, we'reyou know, we're fortunate in the
city of Boston that the city andthis has been consistent through a number of
mayors and certainly with mir WU,where there's been you know, a real

(15:11):
focus and desire to add more capacityright for for homeless folks. And I
say that, you know, homelessis bad for everybody. It's it's horrible
for the people going through it,not great for the business community or neighborhoods
or anything. So there's a lotof good reasons for us to fund this.
But typically in Boston, the cityhas a pot of capital money,
and then there's also state dollars,and so we would apply for city dollars

(15:35):
and state dollars combined. That moneyoften helps us pay for purchase and renovation,
and then we typically apply for rentalassistance to help operate the buildings,
and that is, you know,keeping the lights on and the heat.
What I think is the more mostcomplicated piece is the support and supportive housing.

(15:56):
There are there's a small program throughmass Health that helps pay for some
support, but honestly, the restof that support and mass Health probably covers
about half the rest that support weraise private money. We go to our
donors and say, you know,help us open this new building. We
ask them to help us for thelong term. You know. We get
an amazing gift from the Yackey Foundation. Well it's been two years ago.

(16:18):
That has really helped fuel this substantialincrease for us, helping us pay for
support and sem capital and helping us. There's always a gap in these projects,
frankly, and that kind of philanthropicsupport really does move the dial the
right way. That's wonderful, allright. So if anybody is listening and

(16:40):
they say, look like I needsupport, I know somebody who needs support,
how can they connect with Pine Streetright now? Because again, so
many of us are in need rightnow? How can they connect? You
know? I think if people arelooking for services, you know, obviously
we have a website, We're listedin the in the should you just you
know, try and find at ourphone number. You can get it on

(17:00):
the website. So people are inneed of services, you can call,
you can go on the website.Typically when people call, we try and
do some problem solving. Maybe maybeyou can stay where you are for a
little while, maybe a little bitof short term financial support would help keep
you housed until we could find somethingelse. Maybe we can help you get

(17:21):
on a housing list. Now,we know the weight lists are long,
but depending on what community you're callingfrom, some of the weight lists are
longer than others. Smaller towns.You know, we have towns and Massachusetts
that have state funded public housing.Sometimes those lists are long, but they're
not as long as other lists.So and then, you know, so
we try and problem solve, andif we couldn't problem solve, we'd try
and help you find a shelter bed. It may not be at Pine Street,

(17:47):
it might be somewhere else. Itmight be closer to where you're calling
from. So I think right nowthere is as you know, as we
talked about earlier, there's not asurplus of beds, that's for sure.
So it's going to be a toughwinter, there's no question about it.
I agree wholeheartedly. And that isa really good point you bring up.
You don't have to be in Bostonto connect with Pine Street if you need

(18:10):
help. No, but there's lotsof resources, you know, in other
parts of the state, andicle SouthShore has you know, mainstream and father
bills, and they're terrific. There'ssmock out in central mass in Framingham and
Worcester. So I would urge peoplecall your local community first, right,
call your local shelter provider, callyour town hall and they can connect you,

(18:33):
because everybody would prefer that people beable to stay in their local communities
where maybe they do have some support, maybe there's some other opportunities that Boston
doesn't have right now. Yeah,sure, and some funding that we don't
have, and exact all of that, all of that all right, Well,
Lindia Downey, thank you for allthe work you're trying to do to
keep everybody safe and housed and sheltered, and just hoping for the best for

(18:56):
you this winter as you try tomake it throught. Thank you, Nichole,
good to talk to you. Likewise, have a safe and healthy weekend,
and please join me again next weekfor another edition of the show.
I'm Nicholl Davis from WBZ News Radioon iHeartRadio.