November 1, 2022 • 35 mins
The quarterback is such a key position that, once someone is in for the season, there isn't much moving' n shakin' going on. So when a situation arises where a new QB must step in, controversy is bound to come with it. On this episode of the NFL explained. podcast, Mike Yam and Michael Robinson talk about some of the most memorable QB controversies of all time.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership
with I Heart Radio. Is it me or do? The
week's just kind of like fly by. It's like a blur.
We were just here in the studio, just flying by.
But you know what, that's the NFL season, Yams season,
(00:27):
and this is NFL Explained. Man, Look the NFL season
when you're going through it, it feels fast, but each
day feels slow. You feel. What I'm saying even now
is you're not a player. You're not recovering. Like, do
you know how much film I look at a week.
I look at every single game at least three times,
at least three You know who you should be hanging
(00:48):
out with on a regular basis, Kyler, Kyla Murray. Yeah,
playing video? I don't play Call of Duty. That's coming
out this week, the new ones coming out. I'm actually
now worried because this NFL Explained episode is all about
quarterback controversies. And I'm just now wondering, like did I
just set the table and like the worst way absolutely
possible for this episode, you led me there. I'm blaming you.
(01:11):
Today's episode of NFL Explained is all about quarterback controversies.
We actually got the question from a listener who hit
me up on social media, and we decided to make
it a whole episode. And it's kind of crazy to me.
I'm rob because I think about some of these controversies.
You have dudes, established starters, stars in the league who
all of a sudden lose their jobs because of maybe age,
where they are in their career, or the NFL is
(01:33):
a business. Sometimes it's just to do that. They drafted
in the first round and you gotta find out if
he could play or not. Absolutely. Look, I think when
I first got to Seattle, my San Francisco days were
a little bit different just because Alex Smith was a
high draft pick. The year before I got there, everybody
in the building new this was Alex Smith's job, So
really what any controversy. There was more controversy about the
head coach and Mike Nolan, uh coach secretary, things like that,
(01:56):
But when I got to Seattle, Matt Hasselback was there.
Matt Hasselback had went to a super Bowl in two
thousand five. I got to Seattle in after training camp
and there wasn't that much of a controversy, but it
was that storyline like as as Matt washed can he
still lead a young team? Pete Carroll and John Snyder
they had like two business interactions and acquired players and
(02:19):
let players go just during training camp, like it was
something crazy. It's something crazy number like that. And so
that was really the only controversy when I first got there.
Obviously everybody knows. We had to varge Jackson after that,
and then Matt Flynn. The Matt Flynn thing is that
the controversy that came because we got Matt Flinn. He
signed the twenty six million dollar deal and it's crazy,
(02:40):
and actually, I'm not to cut you off here, but
I think some of our listeners might not even be
familiar with the name Matt Flynn. This is dude who
got a big contract after just a couple of games.
So they sound like twenty or five million dollar deal
with Seattle. He backed up and Rogers in Green Bay,
and yeah, he was the big money guy that was
supposed to be the franchise quarterback for our Seahawks. And really,
(03:01):
when you look at his play, he benefited from being
in a great situation and he became a free agent
at the right time. So we get Matt Flynn in there.
And I remember during the draft that year it was
and I get a call from the general manager. I
was a team captain for the Seattle See I was.
I get a call from John Snyder, and John says, Yo,
we got this dude from v A. He's a quarterback.
(03:21):
I had already heard of him because I was I'm
from Richard, Virginia. Russell played at Collegiate, a private school
in Richmond, Virginia. Even though with me and Russell Wilson
when we talk, we argue about public and private school.
I went to a public school and went to private school,
and I'm like, dude, you would have never won a
state championship if you was playing in the public leagues.
But that's why I digress a little bit. But I
remember John Snyder calling me and saying, Bro, we're gonna
(03:43):
take this kid in the third round, and I believe
he can be our starter. And you gotta think, yeah.
It's like I'm a team captain. So I'm like, Bro,
but you just brought in a quarterback, and I'm thinking
we're gonna run the office through the run game. Just
then the third Russell a little bit more dynamic. What
are you saying any short like it was a lot
of questions I had, but I trusted John. John was like, Yo,
(04:05):
this dude can play. Trust me goes out when's the
starting job loses the first game of the season that
was on the Cardinals, and that bus right, I know,
our listener, you know it was basically interested in how
the locker room deals with this stuff, Yams. When I
tell you that bus right, I mean that a plane
trip after we lost it there as on the Cardinals
was something entertaining. That's just a good word I'm using.
(04:27):
But uh, every guy, especially defensively because we had a
championship defense already, was like, why in the hell out
we playing this rookie And it almost fractured us to
a degree, and to Russell's and Matt Flynn for that matter,
to both of those guys, credit Russell fought back, He
heard the whispers, he could hear whatever. He fought back
(04:50):
and got into the form that we saw when we
won our Super Bowl, and then Matt Flynn was supporting
him the entire time. I do think it's important to
set the stage and discuss a couple of different quarterback controversies.
Some were recent this season, some from way back in
the day before I was even born. We just gotta
set the table here. One that everyone sort of knows
just because it's in the news. Mitch Sure, Biscuit, Kenny Pickett,
(05:12):
We've seen that one play and that things just kind
of interesting because of concastions and injuries and the whole
thing and swapping guys in and out. But we can
go all the way back to ninety nine. I mean,
the Rams had two quarterbacks in Norm Van Brocklyn and
Bob Waterfield. The Rams actually drafted Van Brocklyn in nineteen
forty nine, and during his rookie season, he started zero games.
(05:33):
Waterfield he was the starting quarterback the following year, though.
From nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty two, the Rams actually
alternated Waterfield and Van Brocklyn as the starting quarterback. Waterfield
started twenty two games, van Brocklyn fourteen games Over those
three seasons. Even with the rotation, the Rams won the
NFL Championship that you're beating Cleveland in nineteen fifty one.
(05:54):
Waterfield ended up retiring in fifty two, Van Brocklyn became
the full time starter. He's a Pro Football Hall of Famer,
and I think proving the old adage incorrect. If you
have two quarterbacks, that means you don't have any It's
like what people say, yes it is it. I didn't
know this story to see the platoon system at the
quarterback position go way back there. See I get into
(06:15):
this crazy argument. That's really the argument. I call it
heated fellowship with Bucky Brooks. I love he is a
greater talent evaluator and him and I I talked to
him about three years ago about this phenomenon that I'm
seeing at the quarterback position. And when the fact that
the salaries are ballooning so much or whatever, and it's
not like guys are getting paid off a skill set.
(06:37):
They're just getting paid because of the next guy up right,
which is a little different every other position, Like you know,
Sara and Donald, A lot of people ain't gonna make
more than Aaron Donald. That's the left hand. A lot
of people are gonna make more than Trent Williams because
he is clearly the best in the in the National
Football League. Quarterback is a little bit different. And I
said that as the salaries balloon, I can see a
(06:58):
general manager saying why Lamar Jackson, for instance, I e
since he's not paid yet. Yeah cool, I'm gonna pay
that whole room fifty million dollars a season. You're gonna
get forty of it. But because of the way you play,
I need this offense to continue to roll. If you
get hurt Lamar Lamarian signed enough for that Tyler hunting.
(07:20):
But if you're getting guarantee, you know what I mean,
the season, I mean, why not. I mean, it's a
little bit more on the general managers some finances, but
I just think it's coming. The league is too physical.
These quarterbacks are running around now we're seeing what's happening
to him. Welcome back to the NFL Explained podcast. So
(07:43):
the controversies, they are going to continue probably forever if
there's because it's not just quarterbacks. Like there's position battles
every single year at different camps. There's one team that
consistently comes up. And now I'll give them credit because
they consistently have a dude at the quarterback spot. But
when that dude starts to get a little tread where
on those tires, like all of a sudden, it's that
(08:04):
next wave and then that quarterback controversy kicks up. And
I'm talking about the Green Bay Packers. I'll take you
back to nineteen sixties seven. They had Bart Starr as
the started. They drafted it Don Horn twenty overall. They
also had a dude that they drafted in Brett Farve,
and then Aaron Rodgers twenty four overall. In two thousand five,
drafted Jordan Loved twenty six. Rogers, by the way, still
(08:27):
a dude who's winning MVP awards. So kind of crazy here.
But Horn was primarily starts back up before he was
traded to Denver. The Farv Rogers controversy, that thing got
heated back in two thousand eight. Man, I remember this
doing talk radio, and this was all the rage. Rogers
had been Far's back up for a few seasons. Finally
it's like, yo, Brett's retiring. Dude, It's finally my time.
(08:48):
Can I get out there and start slinging it. Farv
un retires four months later and reports to camp and
think about that, like you are in legend one of
the all time grades. You unretired. It's like, all right,
like I'm back, Like, what's the team gonna do? It's
kind of funky, right, Packers decide, no, no no, no, it
ain't that funky we're gonna go with Aaron Instead, Brett
goes to the Jets. Do you remember that Crazy played
(09:11):
against Brett and the Jets. They came out to San
Francisco and I think they beat us in two thousand
and eight. I went too happy. I didn't have my
best game special team wise. But it's okay. I digress.
But to your point, it's hard to have these business divorces.
It's just tough, especially a guy who's been playing that
great Hall of Famer. But I do think it's on
the decision makers of the team to have the team
(09:33):
first and think, hey man, we gotta make those tough decisions.
Bill Beltick does it all the time with every position.
It doesn't matter. I mean, he just let Tom Brady
goes not too longer. You gotta trust your talent evaluators
and your coaches who are watching these dudes every single
day in practice. Because keep in mind here when Far
with that team's quarterback thirteen and three record in that
final season NFC championship appearance in two thousand seven, so
(09:54):
they're like knocking on the door to get into a
super Bowl. Just for some context, here Far two thousand
eight only played to ten in those two season. Now
it's a different roster, right because it's the Jets. The
whole thing, the win lost record nineteen Roger's still playing,
He's got two wins. Like you understand, I mean looking
back on but you understand like that was a great
(10:16):
move from a Green Bay perspective. Here's where it gets
a little interesting, and I think there's some correlation between
present day when Rogers got drafted. Far said quote, my
contract doesn't say I have to get Aaron Rodgers ready
to play. Now, hopefully he watches me and get something
from that reminds me of another rookie veteran comment that
(10:36):
we heard this pass off season, like, well, let's get
drafted by Tennessee. Tannehill says something kind of similar to it.
What do you make of that mentality? And Rogers says
something kind of similar about years ago. So, um, I
get it. It is not on the starter to teach
a guy how to take his job. That is not
(10:56):
the responsibility of the starting player. Hell I was the
only fullback in Seattle for a number of years, but
yet every year people don't realize they drafted and bart
guys in had to win the job. Every single year.
So I mean, yeah, I think that's the right mentality.
I think it's on the person competing for the job.
It's on the backup quarterback to watch see what's going on,
(11:19):
understand what this guy in funny he was doing right
and wrong, and figure out your own path to being
a starter. How hard is it? Football is a little
different not to make this an NBA thing as the
start of NBA season, And maybe that's I'm sort of
thinking about some conversations that I've had watch um. I
used to work with Kenny Smith, who's he played for
the Houston Rockets, famous being commentator for international audience, who
(11:41):
maybe it's not as familiar. He and Sam Cassell we're
both playing for the Rockets at the time, and I
remember doing a show with him and he's like, man, Mike,
it was so hard for me because you want him
and the team to do well. But when I'm not
the dude out there plan it hurts. You just said, hey, like,
I'm a fullback. Team keeps bringing it dudes in, I
gotta compete you Also, like I know you you're you're
(12:04):
a really nice guy, Like you don't want to be
a you know, to somewhat like, but there's that competitiveness.
How do you balance that? Well, um, you just have
a little integrity about yourself, like for me, And this
is what I mean by that, Mike. Like every fullback
that we're walking into the running back meeting room, I
would introduce myself. Hey, look, I'm here for you be
a sponge. I'm not gonna take you after practice and
(12:27):
show you what's going on, but if you ask, I'm
never gonna turn you away. But this is a business.
I got four children, I got bills. You ain't taking
my job. And I would look him in the US
if you say that, and I could see their response.
My last year there, I had I had got sick
or whatever. But my last year there, there was a
(12:49):
runner there who ended up playing tail back in Kansas
City for a while. I forget his name off top
of my head, but I said that to him and
he said, all right, I bet I take your job.
That's when I knew what this kid is probably I'm
probably gonna be my last season. That was part of
it because I knew, okay, yeah, this kid is willing
(13:09):
to do the fighting. I had already got to a
point where I won't trying to fight no more. Yeah,
I had mentally, I had said goodbye. It's not on
the starter to teach, But to me, with the starter
gives to the team, is that ability to be a
model for that person? Do you do you? This is
a broad, sweeping generalization, and it's not necessarily quarterback specific,
(13:30):
even though this is a quarterback episode, but I think
it still applies. Do you rather have the Kumbaya kind
of vibe in the locker room where everyone's kind of
getting along, or have some of those dogs that are like,
you know what, screw you, You're my teammate. I'm getting though.
It's crazy. Yeahs, that is such a We could spend
a whole episode on that. I do some consulting with
(13:51):
some universities. I helped head coaches. I'll do some life
coaching and stuff, even some coordinators and coaches in the
National Football League. And I'm always having this conversation, especially
with team builders, about just that you need a level
of attitude or I don't know that that harshness on
the Let me give you an example that way you
(14:13):
can understand what I'm saying. When I played for Seattle,
our defense was a championship defense. In eleven we didn't
win the Super Bowl to so our defense played two
and a half years of championship ball before the offense
caught up right, So practice Pete had to do a
great job of regulating practice because if not, the offense
(14:34):
and the quarterback won't have any confidence to go out
there on Sunday, right we would have the biggest fights
and not fist fights. But y'all ain't scoring. There would
tell us we're not scoring me and Beast moltor office,
We're saying, bro, we're gonna run this thing. Right there,
there was this competitive juice there. It was you know,
sometimes things got gone or whatever, but you need that
(14:55):
because at the end of the day, that is the vibration,
that is the situation, that is the environmental game day,
and great coaches simulate game days at practice. So you
need these types of players on your team to kind of,
for lack of better words, mix some things up. Yeah,
you know, I think about being in the Bay Area
this offseason before the year started, Fred Warner, linebacker for
(15:18):
the Niners, Brandon I, you receiver, like those dudes got
into it and it was the chirping on the field
for a little bit and then all of a sudden,
it was more than chirpin like dudes were in each
other's faces. And from a media perspective, like I think
the ones who've covered the league for a long time,
they go all right, whatever, you know, Like Brandon actually
came out to our set after I asked him. It's like, no,
we're cool, like you know, he said, because he understands
(15:39):
the competitive nature of it and he understands like, that's
gonna get the best out of me. There's no different
in when you hear all the stories of when Tom
Brady was with New England. The first time you go
to a team meeting, the first thing Bill Belichick does
is call out the goat. It's the same thing, you
know what I mean, He's trying to get the best
version of himself. I'm glad you bring up Tom Brady
(16:01):
because he is going to come up in this episode.
And I know we already talked about the Green Bay
Pack or some of their quarterback issues, but there's one
quarterback controversy, m Rob that might be the most famous
quarterback controversy in the history of the NFL. We will
tell you what that is next on NFL Explained Welcome
(16:24):
back to the NFL Explained podcast. Mike, Yeah, Michael Robinson
with you. This episode is all about quarterback controversies. We're
doing this episode because one of our listeners actually slid
into my d M and had a question. We got
our mail bag episode right around the corner. I continued
to compile some of these questions. I promise if you're
sending them in, I'll hit you back and make sure
(16:46):
we get to it. Yeah. I always have a funny
message when I screenshot it and send it on our
group text. Are another team who had a ton of
quarterback controversies besides the Green Bay Packers. And I teased
and I said, this might be the most famous quarterback
controversy of all time. It's the San Francisco Fordians, Joe Montana,
(17:06):
Steve Young. I mean, Montana, are you kidding me? Like that?
The dude like the goat the heats ago before TV twelve, Right,
I mean that's probably the best way of describing it. Uh,
Niners get Steve Young. Joe Montana missed eight games the
previous season. I'm taking people back to seven, so just
to reset, it's eighty seven. Niners get Steve and Joe
Montana had missed eight games that previous year, so like,
(17:28):
all right, we might need a little insurance here. Montana
talking to Sports Illustrated in nineteen eighty eight and back
in the day Sports Illustrated, man, like that was that
was the jam, Like you got the magazine every single week.
I still get the magazine to my house. That's still
a thing. I don't even know. That was my son
signed up. What I got a night. Jerry signed up
for it. To get some other free magazines, I said,
make it, yes, we want Illustrated. I still read the articles, Mike.
(17:51):
I love it. I'm a reader, man, I love that.
That's pretty cool that you were supportive of your son
signing you up and your family. A ton of spam
that heads. I got a lot of those advertisements, so
I'm glad you're at least getting some some sports and
a fix for your kids. But Montana back in was
talking to Sports Illustrated, and you know he's asked about
the competition. This is what he had to say. We're friends,
(18:12):
Steve and I, but on the practice field, if he
doesn't hate me as much as I hate him, there's
something wrong. Strong words. Yeah, is a strong world. But
I get the energy he's coming from. He's like, dude,
this is my livelihood. I want to be the greatest,
And yeah, you're gonna have to take my job. You're
gonna have to have a level of hate for me
to take it. I think it's a good mentality to have,
(18:33):
especially when you're competing at the highest levels of the sport. Yeah,
that's like some a lot of big energy type of
type of there, like, you ain't taking my job, all right.
During his fourth first four seasons in San Francisco, Young
only started ten games, and he played in thirty five
And which is why I didn't know that either until
I got our notes. Played in thirty five. Bill Walsh
(18:54):
actually tried to share that quarterback spot between those two guys.
Mons had to miss the entire season with an elbow injury.
So here we go. Here's your opportunity, Steve. You've got
to make the most of it. And guess what he it.
Because Montana never got that starting job back, Young proved
that he could do it. Montana. He gets traded to
Kansas City. You know, like dudes get traded and you
(19:15):
think about them in one uniform and then you see
him in another one. At least the color scheme is
like kind of close, but it's still weird to think
of him as a member of the Kansas City chi
it is and didn't he have Marcus Allen and that
team that was great and achieves uniform But I mean
he didn't. I think he did. Joe Montana did get
Kansas City to a playoff game. Now. I don't know
(19:37):
what's going on in between your ears, but your dome
has got some gems. You're right, like they did get
to the postseason. I think back to his time though
in San Francisco. I mean you talking about Super Bowls,
considered it. Like I said, he was Tom Brady before
Tom Brady. For a younger generation who might not be aware,
how does the franchise just say, hey, you were the dude,
you are the goat, goodbye, um again. I think the
(20:01):
decision makers have to have an allegiance and a I
don't know, like a promised to doing the right thing
for the organization. And there's no one player bigger than
the organization, and that includes the quarterback, no matter how
much success that you have had with them. Now when
you look at even in the Tom Brady situation with
Drew Bledsoe. I think when an injury comes and gives
(20:22):
the backup an opportunity to come show what he can do,
that's the that's the opening. Now it's on the Steve Young.
Now it's on the Matt Castle and Brady got hurt.
Now it's on the backups to show the team you
need to make a difficult decision. I think it's a
little bit easier in those situations. But in Joe Montana's
situation particularly, you gotta understand he was dealing with Bill
(20:45):
Walsh early in his career. They had a West Coast
system that now almost every offense in all of football
has principles from it. Okay, and so we gotta understand
the time in history when this quarterback change was happening,
new offense was hit in the field and winning. So
I think the organization, whether it's a new coach of
(21:05):
the organization, could look at this situation and say, well,
I think we can make the quarterback change because we
have a cutting edge system that can in situate the
qualities that a Steve Young head as m rob just
dropped the West Coast offense. If you're just joining NFL
explained and this is the first episode that you're listening to,
I do encourage you to go back, because we actually
have talked about the evolution of offenses in this season
(21:28):
of NFL explained the Niners, though it wasn't just that controversy,
because there's a present day one. And by the way,
this is my favorite quarterback controversy of all time. It
will always have a close place in my heart. It's
Jimmy Garoppolo and Trey Lance because without the Niners moving
up in the draft to go third overall and Rob
I might not be sitting next to you right now.
That actually gave me some opportunities. That NFL Network happened
(21:50):
to be in the Bay Area. We can talk about
that off there. But this one, to me is still
unfolding and playing out, and it does feel like a
little bit like a movie. The fact that Jimmy Garoppolo
is now starting for the San Francisco forty Niners given
the injury to trade that's the fact that he's even
on this roster is mind boggling to most people. It
is mind boggling, and it goes against, uh some of
(22:12):
the capitalistic um ideas in our society because it's always
more and more and more more, Jimmy took a pay
cut to stay on this day, a substantial pay cut
like this was no just oh, I'm making five hundred
thousand now making four hund No, he made. He took
a couple of millions off of his salary and he stayed.
And I think every time I talked to young quarterbacks,
(22:34):
you know, in lower levels of football, I'll always tell them,
look at it what Jimmy Garoppolo did. If you just
kind of sit and understand your situation, if you if
you're patient with yourself and believe in yourself, opportunities seemed
to come to y'all. Jimmy did was be himself. He
didn't complain through the off season as he was throwing
on the side and wasn't even really allowed to be
with the team. He didn't complain. He just said, you
(22:55):
know what, I'll be okay at some point. And what
happened was Trey Lance got hurt, opportunity came up, and
now he's in a position where he can kind of,
I don't know, provide a new spin in on this
part of his career, especially if he can get to
San Francisco for the honors over the hump. You know
it's wild because it does remind me of the conversations
which we weren't privy too, but Jimmy and Trey have
(23:16):
talked publicly about their dynamic. The more people you talked
to in that San Francisco forty Honors organization, the more
they'll tell you Jimmy is like the greatest dude ever
and that working relationship was good. And it reminds me
of what you said a few minutes ago here on
the podcast about having that line drawn like willing to
help and be that sponge, but at the same time
like it's it is a business. And then I think
Jimmy understands. Jimmy knew that they talked to Jimmy. Hey man,
(23:39):
we've been to go up and get this quarterback. You
know this is you ain't been that healthy every single year,
So this is what we're doing. And again understanding the
business of it. Sometimes I think players we get we
take business personal, and what ends up happening is that
gets us in our feelings and then it leads a
sour taste in our mouth. If you take business the
way it is, you'll be fine hard not to take
it personal, though, because the amount of time that you
(24:02):
invest in it to be great and to have success.
There's some other quarterback controversies, a couple for the old
heads out there Steelers and maybe some of the younger ones,
like I know who Terry Bradshaw is. I'll watch Fox
on Sundays. You're kidding me. Bradshaw was the starter. They
drafted Mark Malon overall in nineteen eighty the chiefs Alex Smith. Dude,
(24:24):
talk about that, dude, resiliency. My lord. Let's not forget.
They drafted Patrick Mahomes tenth overall in twenty seven team Uh,
the Cardinals. Kurt Warner, he was drafted. It's my guy.
Matt Liner had tenth overall in two thousand and six.
How about this one, Eli Manning for the Giants the starter.
They drafted Daniel Jon six overall in the wrong. I
(24:46):
just think they messed that up. They could have they
could have been a little bit more respectful to Don't
get me wrong, Eli wasn't playing the best of football,
But to pull him when that team just won't good
anyway for Gino and then say, oh I messed up,
let me put him back in. I mean, I just
think that was that was messed up. The dude had
two consecutive arts. I mean that was that's like a
(25:08):
big deal. That's a huge, huge in this league. And
you're right, I wasn't playing his best football like it
is what it is. Gino gets thrown in, ends the
consecutive starting streak. Ben Macao. By the way, who's the
coach at the time, Obviously no longer the head coach realized, Hey, like,
that's my bad. Is that like a gimmick though inside
(25:28):
the locker room to do something like that, Um, I
think guys understand that, especially if you're not playing well,
something has to be done to provide a spark. It gets,
you know, I've been on some losing teams and it
gets to a point in the season where you can
see that the head guys under a little bit of
a you know, he's getting a little bit of pressure.
We see press conferences, we see our coaches, we see
(25:49):
what they say, we see everything we see. We take
the message that they say in the media and we
compared to the message that they said to us in
the team media, and we say, is this some b s?
Let me see what this dude is really about? So yeah,
we're looking at that type of stuff. But um, when
you're losing the way to New York, John's would lose him.
Back then, I think they needed a little bit of
a spark. I'm just not so sure Gino. Even though
(26:10):
Gino's bawling right now, back then, I'm not so sure
that Geno was the right spark. I'm with you because
being a New York Giants fan, there's that sentimental aspect
of it, which I think was really hard for that
Giants community to to swallow. I think the fans still
wanted to see Eli out there even in some of
those struggles. You know what two yams uh. Alex Smith
was in another quarterback controversy with Karlin Kaepernick. He was
(26:31):
the second round, second, third round. People forget, but that
was a chance. I mean Alex was planning NFC championships
and things like that. Coach hap I was like, oh no, man,
I want this running guy out there. And they still
were successful and got to a super Bowl. Yeah. Alex
Smith's the story his is really incredible. We should dedicate
an episode just coming off of injury and figuring out
(26:51):
the way. Then he picks up the phone when I
call still we can we get him on the tip.
Can we do that? I'm a call. Let's do the call. Yeah, yeah,
let's when you do that. Please, let's let's face time.
Let's let's just say what's up in person? Him. Uh.
The Giants, by the way, that wasn't the only quarterback controversy.
They had a little young for this. But I do
remember my grandfather talking to me and having those car
(27:12):
rods talking about Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, who should be
the dude. Let's take you back here. Sims starting quarterback, Hostetler,
the backup when he was drafted in the third round
nineteen eighty four, and he was there until the nineteen
nine season as a backup Hostetler. In that ninety campaign,
he takes over as a starter. Simms has got a
foot injury unexpectedly. And we'll use air quotes around that
(27:35):
because I think if you say that to a Giants fan, like, no,
hell no, man, we expected that Giants three playoff wins
and including a Super Bowl. Bill Parcel's head coach at
the time, retired after that ninety campaign. So the new
head coach is Ray Hanley to oversee this quarterback controversy.
Here you go right, like I'm gonna go out on
a high. You deal with this whole little deal. Hostetler
(27:55):
started in two, Sims was the backup. Hostetler signs with
the Raiders in free agency, Sims gets the starting role
back in nine three were airing before a Pro Bowling season.
Not bad, right, Like the dude still goes out on
a high. Yeah, man, that's it's crazy because I'm remember
coach paturn on what depends day, Joe Paterno, the great
coach there, telling me I recruited Jeff Hostell. There's a
(28:19):
linebacker no one day. He didn't come yet. I said,
tell you, crazy man, we do you know the answer
to that one. So sometimes stuff like that happens when
you evaluate guys when and you're trying to recruit them. Um,
believe it or not. Actually, multiple quarterback changes that have
led to Super Bowl championship runs and the those quarterbacks
(28:41):
actually taking over the job the following season. So I'll
take you. In nineteen seventy one, I was negative ten
at the time. Dallas cowboyst in full blown quarterback controversy,
got Craig Morton and Roger star back. Morton started games one, three, five,
and seven. We's got like prime numbers. All of a
sudden stop, back goes to four and six. They both
threw passes in each of the first seven games. Like
(29:02):
what is going on here? November seven, My mom's birthday
nineteen seventy one star back took over as the Cowboys
full time starting quarterback, finished the season undefeated before getting
to the super Bowl. That's wild, man, that's because we're
that's the most fans don't like, not like shout out
(29:24):
to my mom. I got her birthday into an episode.
She's like, I don't even know she's listening. To make
sure she listens to this one. All right, Washington commanders,
how about this? Doug Williams takes over phrase struggling Jay
Schroeder in the team's final games, starting all three playoff games,
leading to a super Bowl victory. Williams Is super Bowl
win led him to take over Washington starting job in
(29:44):
Schroeder was then traded to the Raiders week fourteen of
the seventeen season. This one has we know about this one?
This one's wild. Carson Wentz torn a c l Nick
Foles comes in folds leads the Eagles playoff win and
a Super Bowl win. Wentz comes back as Philadelphia started
the following year in team, Folds again has to replace
(30:07):
him because Once goes down with injuries and they actually
do get a victory in a playoff game, Folds is like,
you know what, Like, I don't know if I like
this whole back and fourth thing signs with the Jags
and free agency. Once remained the Eagle starter and a
couple of teams later not having a ton of success. Yeah,
I actually think, and I know that Nick Foles want
(30:28):
to go get some money, but I actually think, yeah,
why not? He played awesome. I actually think the Eagles
was like, we gotta get Nick Foles out of here
so we can get the best version across the France.
I think in some situations, and I know I'm talking
about Carson here, but I do think in some situations,
the competition forces guys to make stuff up. Like every
(30:48):
single big game I've been into, I've always had my
coach saying to the entire team, all right, guys, don't
make stuff up. Just do with your coach to do
because in big time situations, it's a human it's a
human thing to do to think. Oh man, it's a
bigger game. So I gotta be bigger than myself. No,
just do the just due to ordinary things a little
extra and usually get to your goals. Okay, there's one
(31:11):
other controversy that we have to get to. I promised
that we would get to TV twelve at the start
of the show. We're at the time you could talk
about TV E twelve because there's a generation of NFL
fans that are like, yeah, Tom Brady is the goat,
I get it. It just wins all these super Bowls.
This wasn't the path that most people would have anticipated
for him, especially if you know the back story. So
we got that for you, Brady and Drew Bledsoe, who
(31:34):
by the way, makes terrific wines and the Washington Yeah
great cat talking about that on another episode played for
the Patriots. So I want to take you back two
thousand one. Bledsoe's knocked out of the game against the Jets.
Brady comes in, takes over our quarterback. Bledsoe suffered internal
bleeding because of the hit, never got a starting job back.
The dude signed a ten year, one hundred and three
(31:56):
million dollar contract the year prior. Belichick goes, you know what,
I'm going, Brady over a healthy Bledsoe at the point
of the a f C Championship camp. Eventually Tom takes
him to a super Bowl. This is what Bledsoe had
to say, And I think as a football fan, as
a human and rob, we can appreciate these comments. I
remember being excited for our guys, but at the same
(32:16):
time kind of internally disheartened, Like, man, I battled through
a lot of stuff to get to this point, and
now we've arrived here and the other guy got to
play with that team. It was truly truly bitter sweet,
and with Tom it was bitter sweet. Love the guy,
but at the same time, that's my job he's got
and he's leading my team. Mha that it does. But
(32:39):
as a competitor, you understand the emotion. You get it.
You understand why it was a notion out there that
maybe Carson Wentz couldn't stand a guy right behind him
that one that super Bowl. And now you get to
go into that stadium and see a statue of Nick
Foles and you're the franchise quarterback. You got the money,
but you didn't get a Super Bowl MVPN. You get
to see a statue of the backup. I get it.
(33:01):
It's a human thing to feel that way. But again,
I've always been a role player most of time in
the National Football League. I was a star in college,
but in the league, I was a role player. And
I've always been able to find success when the team
has had success. When the team has has success, all
boats rise, everybody's value was a little bit better. And
so I've always stayed with the school of thought of
(33:24):
do what I can to make the team better. At
some point my value will be looked at it as
opposed to the big hole. You get what I'm saying
and what my value did to help the team win.
There's been a common theme on this podcast when you
talk about an NFL franchise as a business and business
decisions that are separate from the human element of all
(33:45):
of this stuff. But I do think about given to
due to ten year, one and three million dollar contract
in two thousand one. You don't give deals like two
guys who can't play or marginal players. Drew Blessed. It
was an absolute star who could thrive and play well.
I had a great college career at Washington State. I
think to myself, how difficult was that? I you kind
(34:06):
of look you highlighted right matterally got paid to like
sometimes like that is the worst thing for a front
office to have to make a decision like that. But
you gotta you know how well you and how we
talk off camera all the time, and I'm always about
no live in the past. Yeah, you can't look too
far in the future. You have to look at your
team and the circumstances that are going on right now.
(34:28):
And when you look at the Tom Brady and Drew
Bledso and Bill Belichick situation, that's all Coach Belichick was doing. Yes,
the analytics say and the numbers say, Drew bleds So
should be the starter, he's the better player. But at
the end of the day, Tom Brady and what your
eyes were seeing, what Bill belichick eyes were seeing, was
that Tom Brady was a better fit for this team.
I'm actually glad that you bring up bloed So because
(34:51):
and Brady. This is not the only quarterback controversy that's
out there. And I know, look, it's a heavy topic.
There's some other ones. Drew Breese certainly comes to mind.
Philip Rivers like those are two real dudes. You are
on the short list of the great quarter acts over
the last fifteen thirty years. I promised, if you got
another question about some of those we've got you covered,
to slide into my d ms man. Maybe we'll squeeze
(35:13):
in a little bit more on quarterback controversies on another episode.
I always appreciate you guys listening. Follow us on social
media at Real mic rob At Mike Underscore, yam. That's
quarterback controversies explained
NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership
with I Heart Radio. Is it me or do? The
week's just kind of like fly by. It's like a blur.
We were just here in the studio, just flying by.
But you know what, that's the NFL season, Yams season,
(00:27):
and this is NFL Explained. Man, Look the NFL season
when you're going through it, it feels fast, but each
day feels slow. You feel. What I'm saying even now
is you're not a player. You're not recovering. Like, do
you know how much film I look at a week.
I look at every single game at least three times,
at least three You know who you should be hanging
(00:48):
out with on a regular basis, Kyler, Kyla Murray. Yeah,
playing video? I don't play Call of Duty. That's coming
out this week, the new ones coming out. I'm actually
now worried because this NFL Explained episode is all about
quarterback controversies. And I'm just now wondering, like did I
just set the table and like the worst way absolutely
possible for this episode, you led me there. I'm blaming you.
(01:11):
Today's episode of NFL Explained is all about quarterback controversies.
We actually got the question from a listener who hit
me up on social media, and we decided to make
it a whole episode. And it's kind of crazy to me.
I'm rob because I think about some of these controversies.
You have dudes, established starters, stars in the league who
all of a sudden lose their jobs because of maybe age,
where they are in their career, or the NFL is
(01:33):
a business. Sometimes it's just to do that. They drafted
in the first round and you gotta find out if
he could play or not. Absolutely. Look, I think when
I first got to Seattle, my San Francisco days were
a little bit different just because Alex Smith was a
high draft pick. The year before I got there, everybody
in the building new this was Alex Smith's job, So
really what any controversy. There was more controversy about the
head coach and Mike Nolan, uh coach secretary, things like that,
(01:56):
But when I got to Seattle, Matt Hasselback was there.
Matt Hasselback had went to a super Bowl in two
thousand five. I got to Seattle in after training camp
and there wasn't that much of a controversy, but it
was that storyline like as as Matt washed can he
still lead a young team? Pete Carroll and John Snyder
they had like two business interactions and acquired players and
(02:19):
let players go just during training camp, like it was
something crazy. It's something crazy number like that. And so
that was really the only controversy when I first got there.
Obviously everybody knows. We had to varge Jackson after that,
and then Matt Flynn. The Matt Flynn thing is that
the controversy that came because we got Matt Flinn. He
signed the twenty six million dollar deal and it's crazy,
(02:40):
and actually, I'm not to cut you off here, but
I think some of our listeners might not even be
familiar with the name Matt Flynn. This is dude who
got a big contract after just a couple of games.
So they sound like twenty or five million dollar deal
with Seattle. He backed up and Rogers in Green Bay,
and yeah, he was the big money guy that was
supposed to be the franchise quarterback for our Seahawks. And really,
(03:01):
when you look at his play, he benefited from being
in a great situation and he became a free agent
at the right time. So we get Matt Flynn in there.
And I remember during the draft that year it was
and I get a call from the general manager. I
was a team captain for the Seattle See I was.
I get a call from John Snyder, and John says, Yo,
we got this dude from v A. He's a quarterback.
(03:21):
I had already heard of him because I was I'm
from Richard, Virginia. Russell played at Collegiate, a private school
in Richmond, Virginia. Even though with me and Russell Wilson
when we talk, we argue about public and private school.
I went to a public school and went to private school,
and I'm like, dude, you would have never won a
state championship if you was playing in the public leagues.
But that's why I digress a little bit. But I
remember John Snyder calling me and saying, Bro, we're gonna
(03:43):
take this kid in the third round, and I believe
he can be our starter. And you gotta think, yeah.
It's like I'm a team captain. So I'm like, Bro,
but you just brought in a quarterback, and I'm thinking
we're gonna run the office through the run game. Just
then the third Russell a little bit more dynamic. What
are you saying any short like it was a lot
of questions I had, but I trusted John. John was like, Yo,
(04:05):
this dude can play. Trust me goes out when's the
starting job loses the first game of the season that
was on the Cardinals, and that bus right, I know,
our listener, you know it was basically interested in how
the locker room deals with this stuff, Yams. When I
tell you that bus right, I mean that a plane
trip after we lost it there as on the Cardinals
was something entertaining. That's just a good word I'm using.
(04:27):
But uh, every guy, especially defensively because we had a
championship defense already, was like, why in the hell out
we playing this rookie And it almost fractured us to
a degree, and to Russell's and Matt Flynn for that matter,
to both of those guys, credit Russell fought back, He
heard the whispers, he could hear whatever. He fought back
(04:50):
and got into the form that we saw when we
won our Super Bowl, and then Matt Flynn was supporting
him the entire time. I do think it's important to
set the stage and discuss a couple of different quarterback controversies.
Some were recent this season, some from way back in
the day before I was even born. We just gotta
set the table here. One that everyone sort of knows
just because it's in the news. Mitch Sure, Biscuit, Kenny Pickett,
(05:12):
We've seen that one play and that things just kind
of interesting because of concastions and injuries and the whole
thing and swapping guys in and out. But we can
go all the way back to ninety nine. I mean,
the Rams had two quarterbacks in Norm Van Brocklyn and
Bob Waterfield. The Rams actually drafted Van Brocklyn in nineteen
forty nine, and during his rookie season, he started zero games.
(05:33):
Waterfield he was the starting quarterback the following year, though.
From nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty two, the Rams actually
alternated Waterfield and Van Brocklyn as the starting quarterback. Waterfield
started twenty two games, van Brocklyn fourteen games Over those
three seasons. Even with the rotation, the Rams won the
NFL Championship that you're beating Cleveland in nineteen fifty one.
(05:54):
Waterfield ended up retiring in fifty two, Van Brocklyn became
the full time starter. He's a Pro Football Hall of Famer,
and I think proving the old adage incorrect. If you
have two quarterbacks, that means you don't have any It's
like what people say, yes it is it. I didn't
know this story to see the platoon system at the
quarterback position go way back there. See I get into
(06:15):
this crazy argument. That's really the argument. I call it
heated fellowship with Bucky Brooks. I love he is a
greater talent evaluator and him and I I talked to
him about three years ago about this phenomenon that I'm
seeing at the quarterback position. And when the fact that
the salaries are ballooning so much or whatever, and it's
not like guys are getting paid off a skill set.
(06:37):
They're just getting paid because of the next guy up right,
which is a little different every other position, Like you know,
Sara and Donald, A lot of people ain't gonna make
more than Aaron Donald. That's the left hand. A lot
of people are gonna make more than Trent Williams because
he is clearly the best in the in the National
Football League. Quarterback is a little bit different. And I
said that as the salaries balloon, I can see a
(06:58):
general manager saying why Lamar Jackson, for instance, I e
since he's not paid yet. Yeah cool, I'm gonna pay
that whole room fifty million dollars a season. You're gonna
get forty of it. But because of the way you play,
I need this offense to continue to roll. If you
get hurt Lamar Lamarian signed enough for that Tyler hunting.
(07:20):
But if you're getting guarantee, you know what I mean,
the season, I mean, why not. I mean, it's a
little bit more on the general managers some finances, but
I just think it's coming. The league is too physical.
These quarterbacks are running around now we're seeing what's happening
to him. Welcome back to the NFL Explained podcast. So
(07:43):
the controversies, they are going to continue probably forever if
there's because it's not just quarterbacks. Like there's position battles
every single year at different camps. There's one team that
consistently comes up. And now I'll give them credit because
they consistently have a dude at the quarterback spot. But
when that dude starts to get a little tread where
on those tires, like all of a sudden, it's that
(08:04):
next wave and then that quarterback controversy kicks up. And
I'm talking about the Green Bay Packers. I'll take you
back to nineteen sixties seven. They had Bart Starr as
the started. They drafted it Don Horn twenty overall. They
also had a dude that they drafted in Brett Farve,
and then Aaron Rodgers twenty four overall. In two thousand five,
drafted Jordan Loved twenty six. Rogers, by the way, still
(08:27):
a dude who's winning MVP awards. So kind of crazy here.
But Horn was primarily starts back up before he was
traded to Denver. The Farv Rogers controversy, that thing got
heated back in two thousand eight. Man, I remember this
doing talk radio, and this was all the rage. Rogers
had been Far's back up for a few seasons. Finally
it's like, yo, Brett's retiring. Dude, It's finally my time.
(08:48):
Can I get out there and start slinging it. Farv
un retires four months later and reports to camp and
think about that, like you are in legend one of
the all time grades. You unretired. It's like, all right,
like I'm back, Like, what's the team gonna do? It's
kind of funky, right, Packers decide, no, no no, no, it
ain't that funky we're gonna go with Aaron Instead, Brett
goes to the Jets. Do you remember that Crazy played
(09:11):
against Brett and the Jets. They came out to San
Francisco and I think they beat us in two thousand
and eight. I went too happy. I didn't have my
best game special team wise. But it's okay. I digress.
But to your point, it's hard to have these business divorces.
It's just tough, especially a guy who's been playing that
great Hall of Famer. But I do think it's on
the decision makers of the team to have the team
(09:33):
first and think, hey man, we gotta make those tough decisions.
Bill Beltick does it all the time with every position.
It doesn't matter. I mean, he just let Tom Brady
goes not too longer. You gotta trust your talent evaluators
and your coaches who are watching these dudes every single
day in practice. Because keep in mind here when Far
with that team's quarterback thirteen and three record in that
final season NFC championship appearance in two thousand seven, so
(09:54):
they're like knocking on the door to get into a
super Bowl. Just for some context, here Far two thousand
eight only played to ten in those two season. Now
it's a different roster, right because it's the Jets. The
whole thing, the win lost record nineteen Roger's still playing,
He's got two wins. Like you understand, I mean looking
back on but you understand like that was a great
(10:16):
move from a Green Bay perspective. Here's where it gets
a little interesting, and I think there's some correlation between
present day when Rogers got drafted. Far said quote, my
contract doesn't say I have to get Aaron Rodgers ready
to play. Now, hopefully he watches me and get something
from that reminds me of another rookie veteran comment that
(10:36):
we heard this pass off season, like, well, let's get
drafted by Tennessee. Tannehill says something kind of similar to it.
What do you make of that mentality? And Rogers says
something kind of similar about years ago. So, um, I
get it. It is not on the starter to teach
a guy how to take his job. That is not
(10:56):
the responsibility of the starting player. Hell I was the
only fullback in Seattle for a number of years, but
yet every year people don't realize they drafted and bart
guys in had to win the job. Every single year.
So I mean, yeah, I think that's the right mentality.
I think it's on the person competing for the job.
It's on the backup quarterback to watch see what's going on,
(11:19):
understand what this guy in funny he was doing right
and wrong, and figure out your own path to being
a starter. How hard is it? Football is a little
different not to make this an NBA thing as the
start of NBA season, And maybe that's I'm sort of
thinking about some conversations that I've had watch um. I
used to work with Kenny Smith, who's he played for
the Houston Rockets, famous being commentator for international audience, who
(11:41):
maybe it's not as familiar. He and Sam Cassell we're
both playing for the Rockets at the time, and I
remember doing a show with him and he's like, man, Mike,
it was so hard for me because you want him
and the team to do well. But when I'm not
the dude out there plan it hurts. You just said, hey, like,
I'm a fullback. Team keeps bringing it dudes in, I
gotta compete you Also, like I know you you're you're
(12:04):
a really nice guy, Like you don't want to be
a you know, to somewhat like, but there's that competitiveness.
How do you balance that? Well, um, you just have
a little integrity about yourself, like for me, And this
is what I mean by that, Mike. Like every fullback
that we're walking into the running back meeting room, I
would introduce myself. Hey, look, I'm here for you be
a sponge. I'm not gonna take you after practice and
(12:27):
show you what's going on, but if you ask, I'm
never gonna turn you away. But this is a business.
I got four children, I got bills. You ain't taking
my job. And I would look him in the US
if you say that, and I could see their response.
My last year there, I had I had got sick
or whatever. But my last year there, there was a
(12:49):
runner there who ended up playing tail back in Kansas
City for a while. I forget his name off top
of my head, but I said that to him and
he said, all right, I bet I take your job.
That's when I knew what this kid is probably I'm
probably gonna be my last season. That was part of
it because I knew, okay, yeah, this kid is willing
(13:09):
to do the fighting. I had already got to a
point where I won't trying to fight no more. Yeah,
I had mentally, I had said goodbye. It's not on
the starter to teach, But to me, with the starter
gives to the team, is that ability to be a
model for that person? Do you do you? This is
a broad, sweeping generalization, and it's not necessarily quarterback specific,
(13:30):
even though this is a quarterback episode, but I think
it still applies. Do you rather have the Kumbaya kind
of vibe in the locker room where everyone's kind of
getting along, or have some of those dogs that are like,
you know what, screw you, You're my teammate. I'm getting though.
It's crazy. Yeahs, that is such a We could spend
a whole episode on that. I do some consulting with
(13:51):
some universities. I helped head coaches. I'll do some life
coaching and stuff, even some coordinators and coaches in the
National Football League. And I'm always having this conversation, especially
with team builders, about just that you need a level
of attitude or I don't know that that harshness on
the Let me give you an example that way you
(14:13):
can understand what I'm saying. When I played for Seattle,
our defense was a championship defense. In eleven we didn't
win the Super Bowl to so our defense played two
and a half years of championship ball before the offense
caught up right, So practice Pete had to do a
great job of regulating practice because if not, the offense
(14:34):
and the quarterback won't have any confidence to go out
there on Sunday, right we would have the biggest fights
and not fist fights. But y'all ain't scoring. There would
tell us we're not scoring me and Beast moltor office,
We're saying, bro, we're gonna run this thing. Right there,
there was this competitive juice there. It was you know,
sometimes things got gone or whatever, but you need that
(14:55):
because at the end of the day, that is the vibration,
that is the situation, that is the environmental game day,
and great coaches simulate game days at practice. So you
need these types of players on your team to kind of,
for lack of better words, mix some things up. Yeah,
you know, I think about being in the Bay Area
this offseason before the year started, Fred Warner, linebacker for
(15:18):
the Niners, Brandon I, you receiver, like those dudes got
into it and it was the chirping on the field
for a little bit and then all of a sudden,
it was more than chirpin like dudes were in each
other's faces. And from a media perspective, like I think
the ones who've covered the league for a long time,
they go all right, whatever, you know, Like Brandon actually
came out to our set after I asked him. It's like, no,
we're cool, like you know, he said, because he understands
(15:39):
the competitive nature of it and he understands like, that's
gonna get the best out of me. There's no different
in when you hear all the stories of when Tom
Brady was with New England. The first time you go
to a team meeting, the first thing Bill Belichick does
is call out the goat. It's the same thing, you
know what I mean, He's trying to get the best
version of himself. I'm glad you bring up Tom Brady
(16:01):
because he is going to come up in this episode.
And I know we already talked about the Green Bay
Pack or some of their quarterback issues, but there's one
quarterback controversy, m Rob that might be the most famous
quarterback controversy in the history of the NFL. We will
tell you what that is next on NFL Explained Welcome
(16:24):
back to the NFL Explained podcast. Mike, Yeah, Michael Robinson
with you. This episode is all about quarterback controversies. We're
doing this episode because one of our listeners actually slid
into my d M and had a question. We got
our mail bag episode right around the corner. I continued
to compile some of these questions. I promise if you're
sending them in, I'll hit you back and make sure
(16:46):
we get to it. Yeah. I always have a funny
message when I screenshot it and send it on our
group text. Are another team who had a ton of
quarterback controversies besides the Green Bay Packers. And I teased
and I said, this might be the most famous quarterback
controversy of all time. It's the San Francisco Fordians, Joe Montana,
(17:06):
Steve Young. I mean, Montana, are you kidding me? Like that?
The dude like the goat the heats ago before TV twelve, Right,
I mean that's probably the best way of describing it. Uh,
Niners get Steve Young. Joe Montana missed eight games the
previous season. I'm taking people back to seven, so just
to reset, it's eighty seven. Niners get Steve and Joe
Montana had missed eight games that previous year, so like,
(17:28):
all right, we might need a little insurance here. Montana
talking to Sports Illustrated in nineteen eighty eight and back
in the day Sports Illustrated, man, like that was that
was the jam, Like you got the magazine every single week.
I still get the magazine to my house. That's still
a thing. I don't even know. That was my son
signed up. What I got a night. Jerry signed up
for it. To get some other free magazines, I said,
make it, yes, we want Illustrated. I still read the articles, Mike.
(17:51):
I love it. I'm a reader, man, I love that.
That's pretty cool that you were supportive of your son
signing you up and your family. A ton of spam
that heads. I got a lot of those advertisements, so
I'm glad you're at least getting some some sports and
a fix for your kids. But Montana back in was
talking to Sports Illustrated, and you know he's asked about
the competition. This is what he had to say. We're friends,
(18:12):
Steve and I, but on the practice field, if he
doesn't hate me as much as I hate him, there's
something wrong. Strong words. Yeah, is a strong world. But
I get the energy he's coming from. He's like, dude,
this is my livelihood. I want to be the greatest,
And yeah, you're gonna have to take my job. You're
gonna have to have a level of hate for me
to take it. I think it's a good mentality to have,
(18:33):
especially when you're competing at the highest levels of the sport. Yeah,
that's like some a lot of big energy type of
type of there, like, you ain't taking my job, all right.
During his fourth first four seasons in San Francisco, Young
only started ten games, and he played in thirty five
And which is why I didn't know that either until
I got our notes. Played in thirty five. Bill Walsh
(18:54):
actually tried to share that quarterback spot between those two guys.
Mons had to miss the entire season with an elbow injury.
So here we go. Here's your opportunity, Steve. You've got
to make the most of it. And guess what he it.
Because Montana never got that starting job back, Young proved
that he could do it. Montana. He gets traded to
Kansas City. You know, like dudes get traded and you
(19:15):
think about them in one uniform and then you see
him in another one. At least the color scheme is
like kind of close, but it's still weird to think
of him as a member of the Kansas City chi
it is and didn't he have Marcus Allen and that
team that was great and achieves uniform But I mean
he didn't. I think he did. Joe Montana did get
Kansas City to a playoff game. Now. I don't know
(19:37):
what's going on in between your ears, but your dome
has got some gems. You're right, like they did get
to the postseason. I think back to his time though
in San Francisco. I mean you talking about Super Bowls,
considered it. Like I said, he was Tom Brady before
Tom Brady. For a younger generation who might not be aware,
how does the franchise just say, hey, you were the dude,
you are the goat, goodbye, um again. I think the
(20:01):
decision makers have to have an allegiance and a I
don't know, like a promised to doing the right thing
for the organization. And there's no one player bigger than
the organization, and that includes the quarterback, no matter how
much success that you have had with them. Now when
you look at even in the Tom Brady situation with
Drew Bledsoe. I think when an injury comes and gives
(20:22):
the backup an opportunity to come show what he can do,
that's the that's the opening. Now it's on the Steve Young.
Now it's on the Matt Castle and Brady got hurt.
Now it's on the backups to show the team you
need to make a difficult decision. I think it's a
little bit easier in those situations. But in Joe Montana's
situation particularly, you gotta understand he was dealing with Bill
(20:45):
Walsh early in his career. They had a West Coast
system that now almost every offense in all of football
has principles from it. Okay, and so we gotta understand
the time in history when this quarterback change was happening,
new offense was hit in the field and winning. So
I think the organization, whether it's a new coach of
(21:05):
the organization, could look at this situation and say, well,
I think we can make the quarterback change because we
have a cutting edge system that can in situate the
qualities that a Steve Young head as m rob just
dropped the West Coast offense. If you're just joining NFL
explained and this is the first episode that you're listening to,
I do encourage you to go back, because we actually
have talked about the evolution of offenses in this season
(21:28):
of NFL explained the Niners, though it wasn't just that controversy,
because there's a present day one. And by the way,
this is my favorite quarterback controversy of all time. It
will always have a close place in my heart. It's
Jimmy Garoppolo and Trey Lance because without the Niners moving
up in the draft to go third overall and Rob
I might not be sitting next to you right now.
That actually gave me some opportunities. That NFL Network happened
(21:50):
to be in the Bay Area. We can talk about
that off there. But this one, to me is still
unfolding and playing out, and it does feel like a
little bit like a movie. The fact that Jimmy Garoppolo
is now starting for the San Francisco forty Niners given
the injury to trade that's the fact that he's even
on this roster is mind boggling to most people. It
is mind boggling, and it goes against, uh some of
(22:12):
the capitalistic um ideas in our society because it's always
more and more and more more, Jimmy took a pay
cut to stay on this day, a substantial pay cut
like this was no just oh, I'm making five hundred
thousand now making four hund No, he made. He took
a couple of millions off of his salary and he stayed.
And I think every time I talked to young quarterbacks,
(22:34):
you know, in lower levels of football, I'll always tell them,
look at it what Jimmy Garoppolo did. If you just
kind of sit and understand your situation, if you if
you're patient with yourself and believe in yourself, opportunities seemed
to come to y'all. Jimmy did was be himself. He
didn't complain through the off season as he was throwing
on the side and wasn't even really allowed to be
with the team. He didn't complain. He just said, you
(22:55):
know what, I'll be okay at some point. And what
happened was Trey Lance got hurt, opportunity came up, and
now he's in a position where he can kind of,
I don't know, provide a new spin in on this
part of his career, especially if he can get to
San Francisco for the honors over the hump. You know
it's wild because it does remind me of the conversations
which we weren't privy too, but Jimmy and Trey have
(23:16):
talked publicly about their dynamic. The more people you talked
to in that San Francisco forty Honors organization, the more
they'll tell you Jimmy is like the greatest dude ever
and that working relationship was good. And it reminds me
of what you said a few minutes ago here on
the podcast about having that line drawn like willing to
help and be that sponge, but at the same time
like it's it is a business. And then I think
Jimmy understands. Jimmy knew that they talked to Jimmy. Hey man,
(23:39):
we've been to go up and get this quarterback. You
know this is you ain't been that healthy every single year,
So this is what we're doing. And again understanding the
business of it. Sometimes I think players we get we
take business personal, and what ends up happening is that
gets us in our feelings and then it leads a
sour taste in our mouth. If you take business the
way it is, you'll be fine hard not to take
it personal, though, because the amount of time that you
(24:02):
invest in it to be great and to have success.
There's some other quarterback controversies, a couple for the old
heads out there Steelers and maybe some of the younger ones,
like I know who Terry Bradshaw is. I'll watch Fox
on Sundays. You're kidding me. Bradshaw was the starter. They
drafted Mark Malon overall in nineteen eighty the chiefs Alex Smith. Dude,
(24:24):
talk about that, dude, resiliency. My lord. Let's not forget.
They drafted Patrick Mahomes tenth overall in twenty seven team Uh,
the Cardinals. Kurt Warner, he was drafted. It's my guy.
Matt Liner had tenth overall in two thousand and six.
How about this one, Eli Manning for the Giants the starter.
They drafted Daniel Jon six overall in the wrong. I
(24:46):
just think they messed that up. They could have they
could have been a little bit more respectful to Don't
get me wrong, Eli wasn't playing the best of football,
But to pull him when that team just won't good
anyway for Gino and then say, oh I messed up,
let me put him back in. I mean, I just
think that was that was messed up. The dude had
two consecutive arts. I mean that was that's like a
(25:08):
big deal. That's a huge, huge in this league. And
you're right, I wasn't playing his best football like it
is what it is. Gino gets thrown in, ends the
consecutive starting streak. Ben Macao. By the way, who's the
coach at the time, Obviously no longer the head coach realized, Hey, like,
that's my bad. Is that like a gimmick though inside
(25:28):
the locker room to do something like that, Um, I
think guys understand that, especially if you're not playing well,
something has to be done to provide a spark. It gets,
you know, I've been on some losing teams and it
gets to a point in the season where you can
see that the head guys under a little bit of
a you know, he's getting a little bit of pressure.
We see press conferences, we see our coaches, we see
(25:49):
what they say, we see everything we see. We take
the message that they say in the media and we
compared to the message that they said to us in
the team media, and we say, is this some b s?
Let me see what this dude is really about? So yeah,
we're looking at that type of stuff. But um, when
you're losing the way to New York, John's would lose him.
Back then, I think they needed a little bit of
a spark. I'm just not so sure Gino. Even though
(26:10):
Gino's bawling right now, back then, I'm not so sure
that Geno was the right spark. I'm with you because
being a New York Giants fan, there's that sentimental aspect
of it, which I think was really hard for that
Giants community to to swallow. I think the fans still
wanted to see Eli out there even in some of
those struggles. You know what two yams uh. Alex Smith
was in another quarterback controversy with Karlin Kaepernick. He was
(26:31):
the second round, second, third round. People forget, but that
was a chance. I mean Alex was planning NFC championships
and things like that. Coach hap I was like, oh no, man,
I want this running guy out there. And they still
were successful and got to a super Bowl. Yeah. Alex
Smith's the story his is really incredible. We should dedicate
an episode just coming off of injury and figuring out
(26:51):
the way. Then he picks up the phone when I
call still we can we get him on the tip.
Can we do that? I'm a call. Let's do the call. Yeah, yeah,
let's when you do that. Please, let's let's face time.
Let's let's just say what's up in person? Him. Uh.
The Giants, by the way, that wasn't the only quarterback controversy.
They had a little young for this. But I do
remember my grandfather talking to me and having those car
(27:12):
rods talking about Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, who should be
the dude. Let's take you back here. Sims starting quarterback, Hostetler,
the backup when he was drafted in the third round
nineteen eighty four, and he was there until the nineteen
nine season as a backup Hostetler. In that ninety campaign,
he takes over as a starter. Simms has got a
foot injury unexpectedly. And we'll use air quotes around that
(27:35):
because I think if you say that to a Giants fan, like, no,
hell no, man, we expected that Giants three playoff wins
and including a Super Bowl. Bill Parcel's head coach at
the time, retired after that ninety campaign. So the new
head coach is Ray Hanley to oversee this quarterback controversy.
Here you go right, like I'm gonna go out on
a high. You deal with this whole little deal. Hostetler
(27:55):
started in two, Sims was the backup. Hostetler signs with
the Raiders in free agency, Sims gets the starting role
back in nine three were airing before a Pro Bowling season.
Not bad, right, Like the dude still goes out on
a high. Yeah, man, that's it's crazy because I'm remember
coach paturn on what depends day, Joe Paterno, the great
coach there, telling me I recruited Jeff Hostell. There's a
(28:19):
linebacker no one day. He didn't come yet. I said,
tell you, crazy man, we do you know the answer
to that one. So sometimes stuff like that happens when
you evaluate guys when and you're trying to recruit them. Um,
believe it or not. Actually, multiple quarterback changes that have
led to Super Bowl championship runs and the those quarterbacks
(28:41):
actually taking over the job the following season. So I'll
take you. In nineteen seventy one, I was negative ten
at the time. Dallas cowboyst in full blown quarterback controversy,
got Craig Morton and Roger star back. Morton started games one, three, five,
and seven. We's got like prime numbers. All of a
sudden stop, back goes to four and six. They both
threw passes in each of the first seven games. Like
(29:02):
what is going on here? November seven, My mom's birthday
nineteen seventy one star back took over as the Cowboys
full time starting quarterback, finished the season undefeated before getting
to the super Bowl. That's wild, man, that's because we're
that's the most fans don't like, not like shout out
(29:24):
to my mom. I got her birthday into an episode.
She's like, I don't even know she's listening. To make
sure she listens to this one. All right, Washington commanders,
how about this? Doug Williams takes over phrase struggling Jay
Schroeder in the team's final games, starting all three playoff games,
leading to a super Bowl victory. Williams Is super Bowl
win led him to take over Washington starting job in
(29:44):
Schroeder was then traded to the Raiders week fourteen of
the seventeen season. This one has we know about this one?
This one's wild. Carson Wentz torn a c l Nick
Foles comes in folds leads the Eagles playoff win and
a Super Bowl win. Wentz comes back as Philadelphia started
the following year in team, Folds again has to replace
(30:07):
him because Once goes down with injuries and they actually
do get a victory in a playoff game, Folds is like,
you know what, Like, I don't know if I like
this whole back and fourth thing signs with the Jags
and free agency. Once remained the Eagle starter and a
couple of teams later not having a ton of success. Yeah,
I actually think, and I know that Nick Foles want
(30:28):
to go get some money, but I actually think, yeah,
why not? He played awesome. I actually think the Eagles
was like, we gotta get Nick Foles out of here
so we can get the best version across the France.
I think in some situations, and I know I'm talking
about Carson here, but I do think in some situations,
the competition forces guys to make stuff up. Like every
(30:48):
single big game I've been into, I've always had my
coach saying to the entire team, all right, guys, don't
make stuff up. Just do with your coach to do
because in big time situations, it's a human it's a
human thing to do to think. Oh man, it's a
bigger game. So I gotta be bigger than myself. No,
just do the just due to ordinary things a little
extra and usually get to your goals. Okay, there's one
(31:11):
other controversy that we have to get to. I promised
that we would get to TV twelve at the start
of the show. We're at the time you could talk
about TV E twelve because there's a generation of NFL
fans that are like, yeah, Tom Brady is the goat,
I get it. It just wins all these super Bowls.
This wasn't the path that most people would have anticipated
for him, especially if you know the back story. So
we got that for you, Brady and Drew Bledsoe, who
(31:34):
by the way, makes terrific wines and the Washington Yeah
great cat talking about that on another episode played for
the Patriots. So I want to take you back two
thousand one. Bledsoe's knocked out of the game against the Jets.
Brady comes in, takes over our quarterback. Bledsoe suffered internal
bleeding because of the hit, never got a starting job back.
The dude signed a ten year, one hundred and three
(31:56):
million dollar contract the year prior. Belichick goes, you know what,
I'm going, Brady over a healthy Bledsoe at the point
of the a f C Championship camp. Eventually Tom takes
him to a super Bowl. This is what Bledsoe had
to say, And I think as a football fan, as
a human and rob, we can appreciate these comments. I
remember being excited for our guys, but at the same
(32:16):
time kind of internally disheartened, Like, man, I battled through
a lot of stuff to get to this point, and
now we've arrived here and the other guy got to
play with that team. It was truly truly bitter sweet,
and with Tom it was bitter sweet. Love the guy,
but at the same time, that's my job he's got
and he's leading my team. Mha that it does. But
(32:39):
as a competitor, you understand the emotion. You get it.
You understand why it was a notion out there that
maybe Carson Wentz couldn't stand a guy right behind him
that one that super Bowl. And now you get to
go into that stadium and see a statue of Nick
Foles and you're the franchise quarterback. You got the money,
but you didn't get a Super Bowl MVPN. You get
to see a statue of the backup. I get it.
(33:01):
It's a human thing to feel that way. But again,
I've always been a role player most of time in
the National Football League. I was a star in college,
but in the league, I was a role player. And
I've always been able to find success when the team
has had success. When the team has has success, all
boats rise, everybody's value was a little bit better. And
so I've always stayed with the school of thought of
(33:24):
do what I can to make the team better. At
some point my value will be looked at it as
opposed to the big hole. You get what I'm saying
and what my value did to help the team win.
There's been a common theme on this podcast when you
talk about an NFL franchise as a business and business
decisions that are separate from the human element of all
(33:45):
of this stuff. But I do think about given to
due to ten year, one and three million dollar contract
in two thousand one. You don't give deals like two
guys who can't play or marginal players. Drew Blessed. It
was an absolute star who could thrive and play well.
I had a great college career at Washington State. I
think to myself, how difficult was that? I you kind
(34:06):
of look you highlighted right matterally got paid to like
sometimes like that is the worst thing for a front
office to have to make a decision like that. But
you gotta you know how well you and how we
talk off camera all the time, and I'm always about
no live in the past. Yeah, you can't look too
far in the future. You have to look at your
team and the circumstances that are going on right now.
(34:28):
And when you look at the Tom Brady and Drew
Bledso and Bill Belichick situation, that's all Coach Belichick was doing. Yes,
the analytics say and the numbers say, Drew bleds So
should be the starter, he's the better player. But at
the end of the day, Tom Brady and what your
eyes were seeing, what Bill belichick eyes were seeing, was
that Tom Brady was a better fit for this team.
I'm actually glad that you bring up bloed So because
(34:51):
and Brady. This is not the only quarterback controversy that's
out there. And I know, look, it's a heavy topic.
There's some other ones. Drew Breese certainly comes to mind.
Philip Rivers like those are two real dudes. You are
on the short list of the great quarter acts over
the last fifteen thirty years. I promised, if you got
another question about some of those we've got you covered,
to slide into my d ms man. Maybe we'll squeeze
(35:13):
in a little bit more on quarterback controversies on another episode.
I always appreciate you guys listening. Follow us on social
media at Real mic rob At Mike Underscore, yam. That's
quarterback controversies explained
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