January 3, 2023 • 42 mins
The punter lifts the ball into the air and it's headed toward you! And so are 10 focused NFL professionals. What do you do? On this episode of the NFL explained podcast, Mike Yam and Michael Robinson explain all that goes into that moment on the field when everything is flying toward one player as they cover, "The Art of the Punt Return".
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership
with I Heart Radio. Alright, Happy New Year, Here we go,
Here we go. It is a brand new edition of
the NFL Explained podcast on Yam as always, joined by
my Super Bowl champ Michael Robinson. Are you big new
(00:27):
Year's resolution guy? No, I'm not, Yams because oftentimes we
don't get our resolutions, and I have a theory behind it,
but that might be a whole another podcast. You know this,
This is the Gregorian New Year. Okay, this isn't the
earthly new year. There are only new years in March
during the equinox. Are you just making up stuff? I
don't even heard of this. No, it's not, it's not.
(00:48):
It's literally for real that the new year for the
earth starts during the equalnox when life springs back up
into existence. You know, when the vegetables grow. Come on, yam,
the vegetables are always growing. I am I am not
the person to dive into this topic with here here
it was, and look we're gonna be. We got a
lot of actual football stuff to discuss. In fact, it
(01:10):
is the art of the punt return. Little did I
know that I was gonna get like a lesson. I
just thought you were gonna tell me like, oh, yeah,
I'm I'm gonna fast, or you know, you do work out.
I don't know. Maybe I'm not gonna work out as much. No,
I'm gonna work out and I'm gonna keep working out,
and yes, I do fast. But again, I'm telling you,
that's why people's New Year's resolutions, don't know, always come
to fruition because you're doing it done the wrong part
(01:31):
of the year. Man. You gotta do it when life
is coming up, not when things are getting cold and
it's desolate and it's cold and there's no vegetables. Come on, yams,
all right, I'm I'm on it, and I will try
to do some Google searching when we finish up this record.
But I think when people are like the punt return,
take me through this here. I actually was pretty excited.
I got the text. I was told, hey, this is
(01:51):
gonna be the topic on this week's episode, and that
sometimes I think people are like well, special teams. I
don't think they get enough love. I don't think special
teamers get nearly enough love. No, we don't, And I'm
gonna say we because that was my job for almost
nine years in the National footb You know what I'm saying, right, Like,
it's it can make or break a game, and when
it goes well, it can go great, and if it
(02:12):
doesn't go well, it's like another situation, you know what
I mean. Yeah, Usually, you know, when you look at highlights,
when you're a special teamer or core special teamer as
I was with the San Francisco forty nine is in
the Seattle Seahawks, oftentimes we are plays don't get on
the highlight packages of these you know shows, right unless
it's something really really bad or really really good. If
(02:33):
you're just doing your job normal, you don't get any recognition.
There are certain players that keep you watching no matter
what you know, if it's an offensive player, if it's
a defensive player. Very rarely are there the special performers,
the return guys where you go, you know what, this
dude might be able to take it to the house,
Like I'm not gonna this is not the time for
the bathroom break, because I want to see this guy
(02:55):
and see what he can do. Devon Hester, for me,
is one of those players. But I think we should
start with a little bit of the history around the
punt return. This is actually something that's been a part
of the game. The first punt return for a touchdown
Week two of the nineteen twenty season, that was the
first punt return. Yes, it was when Frank Bacon recorded
(03:17):
the first punt return for a touchdown, his sixty yard
or that helped the Dayton Triangles beat the Columbus Panhandles
fourteen to nothing. You heard me right, the Dayton Triangles.
By the way, if you're into team names, I'm just saying,
if you want to go back to last season's NFL
Explain podcast, you will be able to go through the
(03:38):
history of a lot of the names for NFL teams.
I don't really remember the Columbus Panhandles. But nonetheless, there
were five punt return touchdowns in the first ever season
in nineteen twenty. More than one hundred years later, they've
only been three punt return touchdowns in two so far.
So explain to me, m Rob, why are there fewer
(03:58):
punt returns that you think we're seeing in the game. Well,
first and foremost, the development of offenses and you know
the game, and these quarterbacks just moving the ball up
and down the field. The opportunity for punt returns are
just getting less because the offense and defensive groups are
taking up some of the players a little bit more.
But I think it's because when you look at the
(04:19):
punt return play in particular, because that's what we're talking about,
it encompasses both offensive philosophy and defensive philosophy. Right, when
you're on punt return, when you're rushing the punter to
try to block the punt, that's more of a defensive thing. Right,
you're rushing, Right, you're rushing, you're trying to take the
ball away from the opposing offense because when they're punning,
they still have the ball, they still have possession that
(04:40):
steer their ball. So you're still trying to create good
opportunities for your team. And then when the ball is kicked,
that gets transitioned and now you're playing offense again. Punt
and punt return are the only two fastest of the
game that are like this way. One part of it
is offense, the next part of it is defense. And
so punt return, Yeah, now I gotta worry about holding.
(05:00):
Now I gotta worry about my relation to the punt
return or the guy with the football afterward, about all
the offensive principles to make the play a positive thing.
So yeah, I think that's why it's so hard to
get a punt return is because it's just an encompasses
so many different aspects of our game. A little bit
later in this podcast, we're gonna go through some of
the best punt returners that the game has ever seen
(05:22):
and some of the best ones that we have seen
in the actual game. You kind of touched on it
a little bit, but let's go a little bit more
in depth on some of the philosophies around how you
execute successfully a punt return for a touchdown. Take me
through schematically what is actually happening on the field, because well,
I think for a casual fan, you're like, yo, it's
(05:42):
like kill the man with the football. I've been as
crazy am I've been the returner, Like I've actually had
the opportunity have to catch the football. Here my spotter
from the sideline telling me where everybody is catching it.
Have to figure out where I am in relation to
what the return is. I've been a guy blocking for
the return, I've been a guy rushing the return. I've
(06:04):
I've done it all from the punt return standpoints. So
it's a little bit of a of a just a
unique position. But yes, we have plays. A lot of
times there's sideline returns or middle returns or ali returns.
And when I say ali, that means there's a part. Yeah,
I'm going to the right, there's a right return for
the returner. But from a blocking unit, part of that
(06:26):
blocking unit will be blocking guys out, and part of
the blocking unit will be trying to seal guys. So
you're trying to get like an alley down the numbers
part of the football field. Those are really, from a
schematic standpoint, the real plays of pump return. Yeah, you
can have reverses and specials and things like that that
comes with it, but yeah, those are really the plays
when it comes to punt return, A lot of us
(06:47):
luck man, A lot of it is catching the football,
the returner just having space and you want to get Look,
a returner can't make eleven guys mess at one time,
but he can make one guy miss eleven times. You
get what I'm saying. So you want to get defense.
He's want to get guys on different levels so that
(07:08):
if your returner is encountering a a free guy, he's
one on one with that guy and then he has
enough space to be one on one with the next person. Okay,
so you also played quarterback. You know how thick some
of those playbooks can be. What you just describe in
terms of the return game is not exactly the same playbook, no,
how much of it is dictated by where you actually
are on the field. Like I would imagine for you
(07:31):
when you were playing quarterback. Situationally, if you're at the
goal line, you know you're you're thinking about what three
four plays that are kind of like the go toos
in these situations. How much do you focus in on
when you're you know, trotting out there and you know
it's a fourth down from the other team they're punting,
and you go, okay, cool, like I'm at the forty
or hey, I'm inside that ten. Take me through what
(07:52):
you're actually thinking about in those moments. Well, it depends, right,
It depends on your opponent and who you're playing. If
you're playing a punt team, I'm just gonna throw a
name out they're like this, like like the Rams Sean McVeigh.
They'll fake upon on you, they'll throw a pass or whatever.
So whenever you get around the forty or you know,
between both forties and the fifty yard line, because if
(08:14):
you were to fake it there, the opposing team still
has a little bit of a ways to go to
get a touchdown. And you know you're dealing with a
team that will fake the football. Maybe then you're in
a punt safe so you do have kind of a
return on. Maybe you keep your defense out there just
to talk a punt team out from faking it. And
what you'll do is you're rush two or three guys
and then just have those guys drop back to have
(08:35):
a certain return that is kind of like a punt
safe deal. You maybe have somebody backed up. You may
have a rush right, and every single rush has a
sideline return with it, right, So you may have all
eight guys up at the line of scrimmage. You may
have them all rushed the punter. Hey, you guys missed.
After you guys missed, we're gonna all turn around and
now this turns into a right return for the punt return.
(08:56):
So again for all of our listeners and viewers out there,
the punt team it and just going out there and saying, okay,
we're just gonna catch the football and see what happens. No,
that there is a method to the madness. There is
the direction you're trying to kind of move the punt
team bodies into so that you can have a return
and in the play. On a positive note, how hard
is it to locate the football once it leaves the
(09:17):
puncher's foot? Very man, I can't lie, especially as a
returner um and really really the destroyers the guys who
are so again, you have a punt team, you have
a punt return team. The gunners are the guys that
on the punt team that right at the snap of
the ball there on the outside, they get to go
to the to the returner, they get to go to
the ball. The destroyers usually are in a vice grip
(09:40):
or have two guys out there to stop those guys
from getting the free runs on the returner. And to me,
they have one of the hardest jobs. They don't know
where the ball is. They're fighting a guy, They're trying
to block a guy running all the way downfielding their
back is to the ball and the returner. And I
can't tell you, Yams, how many times where a returner
is yelling Peter Peter, which means basically get away or
(10:01):
oscary or whatever the co word maybe for that punt
return team, and the destroyer just doesn't hear him because
he's engaged in a fight with the with the gunner
on that side. And then the ball lands and hits
the gunner and then it's a free ball after that.
So it's a lot of different dynamics that goes on
with the pump return team, and you gotta communicate and
oftentimes from a pump return standpoint, at that juncture of
(10:24):
the game, littleois is happening in the game because the
other team is punting. If you're at home, you're you know,
your crowd is excited. So it's just a lot of
different factors that go on to the pump return. Oh yeah,
on top of it's not like these are starters and
I and I was a core special teamer. If you're
a backup in the National Football League, you play special teams.
(10:45):
There is no qualms about it. It's only forty six
of us that are live on game based. So you
gotta do it all right outside of the safe moments
where it's just like, hey, just make sure you catch
a clean At what point is it all feel like
I gotta imagine if I'm out on of the football field,
I got ten to thousands of fans that are just screaming.
I got lights, I got banners, I got the whole thing.
You just told me. It's hard to locate the football.
(11:07):
You got gunners that are coming down and you know
they're bearing down on you. Is it all feel? Before
you start waving hey, you know, fair catch? Like, what's
sort of that that point in your mind when that
ball is up in the air because you're not looking
at the gunners. You gotta be looking up. Yeah, you're
just are you just feeling guys out there? Like, how
do you figure that out? There is a feel to it,
there is um, there is a spatial awareness. Then yes,
(11:31):
oftentimes you have the loudest coach on your coaching staff
on the sideline screaming you're good. And that was what
they said to me, Mike, you're good, You're good? Or no, No,
you hear the word no, you start crossing your hands,
you start saying no, get away, get away, get away,
and start yelling whatever your cold word is for guys
to kind of get away. But yeah, there there always
(11:52):
is a plan. There is a feel aspect to it,
and Um, there's also game planning. So let's say, for instance,
when I play, we would play against I'm just gonna
throw out the Pittsburgh Steelers, right. They always had a
bunch of linebackers on their roster because they were three
four teams. So you knew a teams that were three
four that have a lot of that guy. Well, you
(12:13):
know that their special teamers are gonna be a lot
of linebackers. Exactly. I don't want any of that. I
don't want to get hit by it, right, L No,
But if there's a lot of linebackers on your punt team, right,
maybe not the fastest guys, maybe not the most guys
with the most agility, then yeah, as a returner, as
a as a punt return team, we're gonna have a
lot more sideline returns, especially if I got a guy
(12:35):
like a Percy Harvard or Alan Rosson who I played
with in San Francisco, or Leon Washington we had in
Seattle before we had Percy Harvard, we got speak guys
like that, and we're playing against a bunch of linebackers.
Everything is a sideline return games, everything, And I was
that guy that would I was always the personal protector
on punt and on punt return. Basically the guys that
(12:55):
would you know, call off the return. I would get
the call from the special teams coordinator. I would also
be the guy to identify what's happening. Oh, this wing
is on the ball, that guy's off the ball. Alert, alert,
alert to save something's up. This ain't normal, right I
was that guy? Or when the ball is kicked, I'll
be the one drop back and be the personal protector
(13:17):
for the return er. So just being able to identify
the different things that the punt team is trying to
do to you. And ultimately, your goal is to give
the ball to your offense. Yeah, I'm gonna repeat that again.
The ultimate goal is to give the ball to your offense.
And if you can make a quick ten yards off
the return to that's also a goal. Hey, real quick,
here is it? Just to circle back you said, the
(13:37):
lottest coach is saying, Mike, you're good. You're good. No, no, no,
just for clarification purpose, you good means you're supposed to run.
You can catch it. You have enough space to go,
there's no danger, you can go and return it. If
he's saying no, he's basically saying you got too much
danger around you. Just make sure we catch the ball
and get the possession, and at that point you're going
(13:58):
fair catch. Yes, all right, Welcome back to the NFL
Explained Podcasts. Mike, Yam and Rob with you and Rob,
just one other thing on this you have said it's
hard to locate the football. And by the way, very
rarely on this show do I feel like I have
real world experience this one I actually do. Uh years ago,
(14:22):
I had try to catch a football out of a
jugs machine up in the air. I was over three,
and I couldn't get over how much spin there was
on the ball. And not only was it harder to track,
but when it was coming down, I couldn't get over
how fast it was dropping. How difficult it is it
to actually catch the football in those situations. It's very
(14:42):
different than if you're a wide receiver. Like the angle
of the ball is just completely different, completely different. It's
like it's falling out of the sky man literally it is.
It is well, um, the nose of the football is
very important. The nose of the football, especially in a
punt or pass. It tells you exactly where the ball
is going. If the nose is up yams right, which
(15:03):
I'm assuming these jug machine put that you were trying
to catch. The nose was up. When the nose is up,
the read for the returner is the back of the
ball because the nose is up, meaning at the at
its apex, the ball is gonna drop in the back
part of the ball is gonna direct it where it's going. Okay,
(15:23):
so you see the nose up. You notice at its
peak the nose is still up. You better get the
running up. That ball is gonna drop because if the
nose is up the back is down. That means it's
gonna drop really really fast. And when you're catching the football,
you want to keep your hands high right. Um, I
know a lot of our YouTubers can see us, but
keep your hands high, right. You want to keep your
(15:44):
hands as high as possible because the the the sight
of the human being. We lose the football in the
last six inches of flight. That is why that picture
you showed me. If you catching, that's why the picture
you showed me, your eyes were almost closed. The ball
was falling in your hands. We're reaching out for the
(16:06):
ball because it started making this started like a hard
turn on me at the last second, Again, your hands
weren't high, you weren't following the back of the ball,
so you had no idea where it was gonna fall. Now,
in contrast to that, a game ball is kicked noses
up at its apex. You see the ball turn over.
(16:27):
Now the nose turns over to Now the nose is down.
Now you better back up. That ball is gonna carry right,
because that was like a pass. Now it turns over
and now it's it's not gonna drop straight down when
it falls. It's gonna fall more with a with an
arc and over. So whenever when I was a return,
I saw the nose up at its peak, and I
knew it was gonna turn over. I sprint it back
(16:49):
now because it's easier to catch the ball going forward
than catch the ball running backwards. So you just want
to put yourself in a better body position so that
you don't fumble. All right, Not to get two into
the weeds on the technical aspect of this, but I
do think it's important to highlight here we talked about
wide receivers in the previous episode. I know this sounds counterintuitive,
but I'm gonna say it anyway. Wide receivers the best
(17:09):
guys catch with their hands. And I think people will say, well,
of course they catch with their hands. No, No No, What
I mean by that is they literally are only catching
with their hands and not their bodies right where the
balls kind of like they're trapping the ball around their chest.
What you were just describing to me in my own
personal experience, I had no chance of at the end
of the day, even if I had known, Like on
(17:30):
the third try, every single tempt there was three attempts,
every single one, I got closer the third one and
it hit my hands, Like I just couldn't think if
I had to do it again, I'm a little less
this is I'm definitely a lot older and a little
less athletic. But I think knowing where it could have been,
I could probably could have figured it out. But the
ball hit my hands. I wasn't going to catch the
ball at the speed and velocity it was going down.
(17:53):
Now that I'm hearing you, I think I couldn't have
caught the ball with my hands. I think I would
have needed my body. Do all punt returners and they
thinking like that, can you catch a punt with just
your hands? You can? And again you got say first
of all, we're dealing with the best athletes in the world. Okay, yeah, yeams,
I'm sorry, dealing with the best athletes in the world.
(18:15):
So they got hands. I got like Kenny Picket size hands.
Not sorry. And they're small too, Broy really small. But
that's a whole another conversation about draft and draft attributes. Um,
but these guys have hands, and so what happens is
you just you want to give yourself the best opportunity
for something bad not to happen. And so yes, most
(18:39):
time they're gonna try to catch it with their bodies right,
because the ball is coming down pretty fast. But if
you have your hands high, and you know you're a
good tracker of the football in the last six centuries,
you're gonna lose it if it does move a little bit.
Your instincts and the fact that you're one of the
top athletes in the world that parts of you kick in.
There are punts in times in my life where I've
(19:01):
caught the football in this out here, but I was
in a position to catch it. It's just that now
had to make a last second adjustment, and obviously it
kicks in. Yeah, those last second adjustments, that's kind of
what did me? And I just did it like it's
all good. Yeah. Well I saw at one time when
the teleprompter with blank and Yams did a last minute adjustment.
He did the last twenty seconds of the show off
(19:22):
the top of the dome. That is what I'm talking about.
I'm much better in those situations, trust me, than the
ones actually out on the field. I dropped his name
a little bit earlier in this podcast, Devin Hester, And
at least for me, he is still the ultimate. And
there's some other great names. And I gotta interrupt you.
I trained with DEVI came out in the same draft
we were. We trained with Tom Shaw down there um
(19:45):
and at the Wild World of Sports in Disney in Florida.
We were in the same draft class. I remember watching
him at Miami and when we were training, we got
a chance to talk and kind of like hang out
or whatever, and I might Devin, Bro, what's up? Man? Like,
how did you get Like it's like the minute you
step on the field for the return, the entire stadium
(20:08):
stands up. That guy. You know what I'm saying. He's like, Bro,
you gotta understand. Mike. During track season in high school,
we might get fifteen thousand people short up for a
track meet. I said, what he said, Yeah, it's a
little different in Florida. And so what I started to
notice is, man, yet, the speed is different. The way
that they respect speed down there in Florida is a
(20:30):
little bit different. And Devin had no fear. All of
the greatest returners that I've ever tried to tackle, I've
ever tried, I've ever had the block four, they had
no fear. Not saying that they didn't understand that there
may be a couple of hitters on the plant team
with a kickoff team or anything like that. But when
they caught the ball, they put their foot in the
grint and they decided to go forward. There was no fear.
(20:50):
There was no doubt that they were going to get
past the combat zone, which is when I say combat zone,
that's really usually the ten or fifteen yard zone where
all the blocking and stuff happens. Right, they were always
confident they were going to get through. And the second
thing that made Devin Hester ridiculously good and most returners,
you ready for this, jams, it's something that's biological. Okay,
(21:12):
dude ain't had no hips. Dude ain't had no hips, bro, Like,
what do you mean when you tackle somebody right and
you grab them a lot of times you're falling off
until you meet assid hips. Hopefully I can say that. Okay, Yeah,
it's all good. Okay. With Devin, he was straight up
and down. Cribs straight up and down, Dante Hall straight up,
(21:37):
and they're all they all with. You know, most of
these returners have the same physical attributes, you see what
I'm saying, and so when you try to tackle them,
these guys slipped right out of tackles. And then Devin
once he started returning kicks, now all of a sudden
he's in the punt team's head. And I remember playing
against him as a rookie. I remember, actually, I think
I played against Devon every single year in my career
(21:59):
and going out as a punt team, he creates anxiety
through the out them what could happen to you? Because
you know it can happen. You're sitting there with the
plump Like literally I plump returned. I mean our special
teams coach Brian Schneider. Uh, he was with the Seattle Seahars.
I think he's with the San Francisco for the Niners
right now. We will be on the sideline like, yo,
are we kicking it to him? We're like yeah, because
(22:21):
it's an ego thing. Damn right, We're gonna kick it
the deaf ass and I'm gonna make the tackle in
the minute he catches it. You can feel the energy
of the stadium. It's like I'm watching a video game.
It's like you can hear a fan start going real fans.
It's like it's like the energy turns up. And then
all of a sudden, I'm I'm running down the middle
(22:41):
of the field. He's in front of me. Then all
of a sudden, I start turning, and I'm turning, he's
turning the corner. And then all of a sudden, you
start thinking, I'm gonna get cracked back on. Let me
start looking, and you start looking, and then he's gone,
and he's gone in its touchdown. Bro, It's some of
the weirdestuff've ever seen. Patrick Peterson had the same effect,
and he first got in the legal we would kick
it to him. I remember telling our coach, hey, bro,
(23:02):
I don't kick the Patrick. He's too young and fast.
He just is I remember said looking at I had
Jeff albrig who's the defense coordinator um for the Jets
right now? We want special teams together. He farewell, we
were on special teams together. I think he's the special
teams coordinator up there in Buffalo. I remember having conversations
with these guys like, Bro, we can't tackle him. These
(23:24):
are real conversations on the side. So why because we're
at home hoping that you can't know him? Right? So,
like we all get it now, this is the first
time I've ever heard it articulated. Why are you even
bothering kicking to these guys? Well, because again, you get
a guy like real Mike rob who I was a
special teamer, pro bowler, all of those things you talk
(23:44):
your special teams coach and then making some stupid decisions.
But coach, we can do it. But that got the coach.
He's one of the best punters and at least the
putting I think I think he punts for the Arizona
Cardinals right now. Okay, yes, one of the best punters
in the league. We can pin him to the side.
We've worked on this all week. We penned him two
yards from the sideline. He's gonna catch it. Then we
(24:04):
can corral him. Make sure our backside wing stays in
his lane because he's gonna show up. Guess what backside
wing thinks he can make. The tackle gives up the edge,
Devin has to score another such Percy Harvd was elite
at that too. Yeah, well look not no, no, I
love it. It actually paints a really good picture of
of what we're discussing here. By the way, just for
(24:26):
some of the fans who might not be familiar with
Devin Hester, just a couple of things I'll throw out
your way. Four time pro bowler. I'm looking at some
of my notes. Fourteen career punt return touchdowns. That is
the most in NFL history. He had four of them
in two thousand seven. That ties for the most in
a season in NFL history. Can you mention having four
of those in the season? They are who we thought
(24:47):
they went, not like we gave it to him. I
sent a kick to the devil. Hester. Why did I
listen to Mike rob my special teams captain. That's probably yeah,
he didn't drop that on it, but we did get
a memorable sound bite. The other two leaders on the
most punt return yards game in a career. The NFL history.
Ryan Mitchell nearly five thousand, four thousand, Dave Megat. I
(25:11):
remember him just bawling out with the Giants back in
the day three thousand, seven hundred eight yards, and then
Hester just behind him three thousand, six hundred Brian Mitchell,
Dave Megat. They came from a generation or the end
of the running back generation, right. I mean, this game
for so long ran through the backs. I mean we
(25:31):
had fullbacks going touch I think Frank o' harris who
just passed out too long ago, I think his official
position with fullback or something like that at some point
um in his career. So those guys, Dave Megan, Brian Mitchell,
they were toward the end the back half of offenses
being dominated, teams being dominated by the running back. And
it's because again just think about it, yams. They got
(25:52):
great hands when they get the ball in their hands,
they're a tough person to bring down to the ground.
And I think when you look from a return standpoint,
that's what guys were looking for back in the day.
If you do like running backs, you want to hear
about the decline of that position. Oh, we just did
an episode on that one. The reevaluation of the running
back position. You can frame it. However, office coordinators think
(26:16):
they want to throw the ball all over the place
running backs man, let's go okay, well, you you be
the judge of it, and you can decide one of
Henry irony. No, No, I wouldn't say that to face,
and I wouldn't say it about him. How about that,
I'll double down, no decline in the king. There have been,
by the way, some real changes to punt returns over
(26:36):
the years in order to increase a little bit of
action and tempo, including restrictions placed on members of the
punt team in order to open up return possibilities. Give
you an example. Seventy four, the NFL barred all offensive
players except for the two farthest from the ball. Those
are the gunners that m rob made reference to, from
crossing the line of scrimmage until the ball was punted. Then,
(26:58):
in nineteen seventy nine, players on the punt return team
were barred from blocking below the waist for safety reasons,
which is definitely a huge one. I couldn't imagine running
down team and having the guard against a low block.
Are you kidding me? Hill? Hill Asau about that? Even
the changes that were made to open up the punt
(27:19):
return game, the average yards on punt return steadily decreased
from eleven to nineteen before increasing the past couple of seasons,
just for context purposes, punt return average yards per return
nine point six. Let's fast forward to all the way
down to seven point six, and then once again over
(27:39):
the last three seasons there's been an increase eight point eight,
eight point eight, and then this season we're sitting at nine.
The player who actually holds the record for the highest
average punt return yardage is Chicago Bear George McAfee, who
played ninety one and then forty five to fifty. Man
for real, I mean, I'm a little surprised. I mean,
(28:03):
but I mean I always and again, I know some
of the ore legends players a good outset with me
for saying this. I just I just wondered about the
competition back in the days, right, like, you know, the
average almost thirteen yards of punt return. But who are
you going again? All right? You took me into the
weeds when it comes to the philosophy and the mechanics
of the punt return. So we've already covered that. But
(28:24):
when we come back on the NFL Explaining podcast, we'll
discuss some of the greats and some of the biggest
punt returns the game has ever seen. All Right, this
is my second favorite thing that we do in the show.
You know what it is that just tell people, you
(28:44):
know where the d M R don't don't, don't d
M d M yeah you d M By the way,
they actually have been coming fast and furious, like there
is something to consistency and constantly promoting things. So if
you have a question for the NFL Explained crew and
you want us to do answer that question for you,
send me the note. Legitimately you're on the threat. I know.
(29:04):
I say this every every on he actually you know,
takes a screenshot. He actually puts it on the thread.
But it's good for me too, because you know, I'm
an analyst. I've forgotten more football than a lot of
people know. And at the end of the day sometimes
I gloss over stuff just thinking everybody understands what I'm
talking about. So the questions are just a good reminder
that not everybody understands it at the level that we do,
(29:26):
and it just gives us a chance to break some
things down that you use we there. You know how
many times I've seen the question. I'm like, that is
like the best question ever. And I hit him back
and I'm like, Yo, that's an awesome one. We'll get
it in. And you know, and there's been a few
of these times where I've said I've asked the same
exact question. I promise we'll work this too, one of
those mail bag episodes. So keep the questions coming. We
really do appreciate it. But we are talking about the
(29:47):
art of the punt return and Rob did a great
job explaining some of the fundamentals around those situations, technique, philosophies, schematically,
what we see on the field, what we want to do. Though,
you start talking about some of the records and some
of the individuals who actually execute what m Rob was
talking about. So the team actually the most punt return
touchdowns in the season nineteen fifty nine, Chicago Cardinals, Yes,
(30:12):
you heard me, Ryan, the only team in NFL history
to have five punt return touchdowns in a single season.
By the way, I said that, Devin Hester tied the
record four in one season. How about this the record
for a whole year, Chicago Cardinals in nineteen fifty nine.
That's crazy. And to also see that the Arizona Cardinals
in twenty eleven, I think that's the Patrick Peterson time
(30:33):
when he was there was a part of that. Again again,
when when you have these exciting returners made, it just
affects so many different aspects of you football team. Four
players that have scored four punt returns for a touchdown
in a season in NFL history four total. Check this out. Peterson,
who you made reference too, good call, that was that
eleven team he had four by himself. Devin Hester two
(30:54):
thousand seven with the Bears he had fourteen, Rick up
Church had the four, and then in nineteen fifty one
from Detroit, Jack Christiansen all show with four. I'm almost
surprised that we haven't had a right over the last
few years or so, like one dude who well, especially
(31:14):
with the the type of athletes that right like today.
But I also think when you think about Hester, and
you know when Patrick Peterson was coming along, that's when
Hester was kind of on his way out. I just
think that you had organizations embraced special team. I mean
just throughout history, you just don't see teams embracing and
when you usually when you think of special teams, you
(31:36):
think about kicker, snapper, holder, You don't necessarily think returner
or the personal protector or you know, some of the
different things that your punter can do. So yeah, it's
pretty cool. I just think in that time in football history,
teams embraced special teams. So I've made reference to this
on this podcast. It's not breaking news, but I spent
a large portion of my career over the last ten
years or so covering college football. What it reminds me
(31:57):
of Christian McCaffrey when he was at Stanford. I mean,
he's another guy where you just stopped just to make
sure whenever Stanford was on offense, but sir le on
special teams, his ability to cut loose. Here now he's
with the forty Niners. Ryer McLeod does a great job
for those guys. I can't imagine, though, can you imagine
if McCaffrey was back. I guarantee and I don't notice
for a fat I ain't been to a Servantisco for
(32:18):
the out of practice and probably I don't know three
years now since the last time practice. I guarantee you
he catches punts still to this day. I guarantee you.
That is just in case, in case somebody gets hurt
or whatever, or Kyle may just come him and say, look, bro,
I just needed you to catch it. You the guy
trust go out there and catch it, guarantee you. He
still catches punts, you know. And it's weird too because
some guys have success at the college level in that
(32:39):
and then they don't necessarily have the same success. Well again,
it's not as glorified man, Like I'm telling you, Like,
when you get to the National Football League, you want
to you know, you want to go to the money spots.
You know, quarterback pass well left. What's the pay scale
for overturner? Like, where's that coming to? We're still debating,
which I don't. I think the debate is ridiculous. But
(33:02):
people are still debating on whether Devin has to should
be a Hall of Famer. Like when you impact, when
you impact, feel position like that and you were exciting
the way Devin Hester was definitely a Hall of Fame.
I saw Dante Pettis set an n C double a
record in the return game and yet and he does
still return in the league. We see that occasionally, but
it's it's you know, well it's different too. It's different
(33:22):
guys running down there, because I ain't gonna lie like
I'm running down in the last of the football league.
This tackle is going to being I pay my bills,
the reason why my little girl has food in her mouth.
So yeah, you're gonna get if you're gonna get this work, gams,
It's just guy breaks off a big return for a
(33:43):
touchdown in the punt game. What's it like on the sideline?
So is this against us? Or give me both pump return.
Let's start with the positive. Positive, So pump return, we
blocked for a good punt return, whatever, a lot of
excitement on the sideline. I'm not gonna lie. From a
special teamer standpoint, I'm thinking, Okay, did I block my guy?
(34:03):
Did I get full points in the special team points system? Okay?
Did I get pluses? I ain't get no negatives on this.
We all got a game change in place, so that's
extra points because you know, I know in Seattle we
had like top park of the week. You know what
I'm saying. It's like a point system. We were gett
and then we'd have talk top park of the year.
Out of my four years, I got it two years.
The fire War got it two years too. We kind
(34:24):
of used to go back and fadge of honor has
a badger on them at the shirts and everything. You
know what I'm saying. But I would always think about
about the point system number one, and can I be
honest with you, I would think, get your win together.
You got kick off, like literally you you just don't
have enough time to sit and just think, oh, we
just did this, heyy happy happy, No, I'm thinking about
(34:47):
what I gotta do next. People always ask me what
I did on Beast Quake when he ran and did
all that time. I said, but I was thinking about Kioff.
I was blocking. But I don't think about kickoff on
the next play. And at the end of the day, man,
you don't get a chance to really celebrate those long returns,
of those big time returns until the defense goes back
out there. And one would think that the defense will
be upset because now they just they forced the punt.
(35:08):
They go out there, get a scored award, and they
gotta go back out there for you know, some of
them have field goal, you know, extra point protection. Then
they got to go back out there and kick off
and then defense, so they're excited. Anytime we're scoring points,
the defense is excited. And oftentimes the more points it
puts the opposing offense in like, um, you know, one
dimensional game. So they like that, alright. Uh. One of
(35:28):
the note, by the way, on Devon Hester, I feel
like there's like a lot of homage that we're paying him,
and rightfully, yeah, no doubt. He does hold the career
record for punt return touchdowns with fourteen. That's actually four
more than the next guy on the list. Eric Metcalf
is that guy with tim We made reference to Brian
Mitchell earlier in the podcast. He has nine, but Emerald
(35:49):
in the mid two thousand's punts were actually returned to
the fifty percent of the time. That's dropped to a
low of fort in recent years, which makes the record
for the most punt returns for a touchdown in a
career ridiculously impressive. Mitchell, whose number we gave before, with nine,
he's returned a hundred more punts than any other player
in NFL history. More opportunity, isn't that wild? More chances
(36:13):
to get into the end zone. That is pretty crazy, man.
And again, the more chances you get, the more opportunities
you get for an explosive play and explosive touchdowns. But man,
Brian Mitchell was a dog man, and I'm saying that
in a good way. He was a dog man when
he gets the ball in his he was tough to
bring down. Yeah, you want dogs on your team. Uh.
Danny Rees, by the way, holds the record for the
most punt returns in a season in NFL history nineteen
(36:35):
seventy nine, seventy of them wild ex from a cluster,
by the way, in the most recent with fifty eight
punt returns in a season. You mentioned special teams, right, Like,
how does a player just go and say, you know what,
this is gonna be my career. I'm gonna be special teams? Dude, Well,
so you know I do USFL games. And the m
(36:58):
VP of that league, Cavante Turpin, ended up getting an
opportunity with the Dallas Cowboys as a turn and a monster,
and he has been a monster. And I think what
happened was he developed a reputation his speed jumps off
the tape and I think he's gonna be in the
National Football League for a while now. I mean he's
a real weapon. I think you at least gotta have
the threat of getting touchdowns almost every single time touch
(37:21):
the ball. I think you have to have Opposing special
team coaches have to put you up on the big
board on Monday when you first start your game planning,
and then everybody has to worry about you again. I
played with Alan rossellm I played against Allen Rossum and
I blocked for Allen Rossum. When you played against him, yes,
you knew Monday you was gonna have a problem. Dude
(37:42):
was a track star and he could run through tackles.
Leon Washington same type of dude. Percy Harvard the same
type of dude. And obviously we talked about Devin Hester,
Patrick Peterson and those guys. I just think that there's
an energy that these guys bring to a team. And yeah,
as the numbers bear out, they don't score a lot
of points, they don't score all the time. But at
the end of the day, if you can flip field position,
if you can average getting that ten to fifteen yards
(38:05):
a single time you get a return, that's the first down.
That was one of our goals as a special teams group.
Retain the football, have the possession and get a first down.
The minute you get the football, get those ten yards
turned bad into good. What's crazy about this is I
said the record for hester in a single season was four.
I guess subconsciously I knew it wasn't a bigger number
than that. But if I think back to that era
(38:27):
and watching him that season, you would have thought it
was happening like every game because we participated, right, Yeah,
you got ready for it. And again it's the vibe
around and did he grated the whole press confice man,
we thought they were. I don't know why you kicked
it to him? Yeah, exactly because there was that best Uh.
(38:51):
You know, this actually surprised me going through the notes here.
There's only been one punt return in NFL history that's
gone for a hundred plus yards. You would have thought
that it was higher. Robert Bailey a hundred and three
yard returned. Patrick Peterson, by the way, who's we've loved up.
He had nine yards, so he was knocking on the
door there. And just a little side note, I know
the Super Bowl is right around the corner here. Uh,
(39:13):
it has never happened a punt return for a touchdown
in a super Bowl, so I know that can't be
one of your favorite memories because it hasn't happened yet.
At some point it will. That dude might be your
Super Bowl MVP when it does happen. By the way,
is there one that stands out to you when you
were either player on the sideline, when you were a
kid watching the games? Like, is there that one iconic
moment for you? Iconic moment? I don't know if it's
(39:34):
an iconic moment. I mean, obviously we remember, you know,
Desmond Howard's when he got Super m v P. You know,
the big one that we talked about that was a
kickoff I think you know what I mean. But he
did have ninety return yards in the punt return game,
I mean, you know, in the part return game in
that Super Bowl and he won m v P. Obviously
we talked about Patrick Peterson, Um, Devin Hester, Dante Hall. Uh.
You know, I think we ought to give him a
(39:56):
little bit of credits to I forget what year it was,
and I don't even know if I was in the
league when it happened. I think he was playing the
Denver Broncles. He did some spinning around and it was
in a flatty caught the ball. He spent like three
or four times. I interviewed him about it a few
years ago and he said that play was when he
knew he could make a career out of being a returner.
It was like this minute he got to the sideline,
(40:18):
everybody was like, dude, we gotta get to the ball.
That So that's when he knew he had found he
had found this place. But, um, this game has had
some really really unique returners in his history. I've played
against a lot of them. Again, Um, Joshua Cribs, we
still have you know, we haven't talked about and guys
like that, But these guys are unique. These guys are
have no fear and they take returns very seriously. I
(40:42):
mean again, a guy like Leon Washington, dude just dreamed
about returning the ball. And he was one of my
best friends on the team. So yeah, man, big time
influence on team. It's funny. I'm looking at Dante Hall
and and his success. He was a two time pro bowler.
He has got six career punt returns for a touchdown.
That's the ninth most in NFL history. Five punt returns
for a touchdown in seven years with Kansas City. By
(41:04):
the way, just in case you're wondering, Yes, of course,
what about that Sean Jackson went against the what was
it against the Giants? He played for Philly. When I
kick that, he kind of around. Oh, that was so dope.
When I remember seeing that, I said, dude, it was
the personal protector. I was like, because you know, as
a personal protector, when you're puntingat you gotta be the
one right over the football man and if he cuts back,
(41:25):
that's your tackle. Oh that was a walk off. Let's go. Uh,
you know, it's one of the things I remember watching
that game live. One of the things that I do
remember was Coughlin just going berserk because he probably said
he shouldn't kick it to him, and he got talked
into allowing it to happen, and he was probably wanting
to punch himself for kicking it to him. He was
(41:45):
going nuts. Matt Dodd, who was the punter, it just
I do vividly remember, you know. And Tom had that
like that glow about him and when I got cold,
like his whole face would be read and it was
just kind of kind of go. But I remember like
he was blowing a gasket ball field, but a ton
of fun I actually when I heard it, I was like, Oh,
this will be cool. I didn't think we go to
(42:05):
slong on this is this lihouse, ma'am? Yeah? No, man,
kind of like digging deep on this. I hope everyone
enjoyed this episode. The art of the punt return explained.
NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership
with I Heart Radio. Alright, Happy New Year, Here we go,
Here we go. It is a brand new edition of
the NFL Explained podcast on Yam as always, joined by
my Super Bowl champ Michael Robinson. Are you big new
(00:27):
Year's resolution guy? No, I'm not, Yams because oftentimes we
don't get our resolutions, and I have a theory behind it,
but that might be a whole another podcast. You know this,
This is the Gregorian New Year. Okay, this isn't the
earthly new year. There are only new years in March
during the equinox. Are you just making up stuff? I
don't even heard of this. No, it's not, it's not.
(00:48):
It's literally for real that the new year for the
earth starts during the equalnox when life springs back up
into existence. You know, when the vegetables grow. Come on, yam,
the vegetables are always growing. I am I am not
the person to dive into this topic with here here
it was, and look we're gonna be. We got a
lot of actual football stuff to discuss. In fact, it
(01:10):
is the art of the punt return. Little did I
know that I was gonna get like a lesson. I
just thought you were gonna tell me like, oh, yeah,
I'm I'm gonna fast, or you know, you do work out.
I don't know. Maybe I'm not gonna work out as much. No,
I'm gonna work out and I'm gonna keep working out,
and yes, I do fast. But again, I'm telling you,
that's why people's New Year's resolutions, don't know, always come
to fruition because you're doing it done the wrong part
(01:31):
of the year. Man. You gotta do it when life
is coming up, not when things are getting cold and
it's desolate and it's cold and there's no vegetables. Come on, yams,
all right, I'm I'm on it, and I will try
to do some Google searching when we finish up this record.
But I think when people are like the punt return,
take me through this here. I actually was pretty excited.
I got the text. I was told, hey, this is
(01:51):
gonna be the topic on this week's episode, and that
sometimes I think people are like well, special teams. I
don't think they get enough love. I don't think special
teamers get nearly enough love. No, we don't, And I'm
gonna say we because that was my job for almost
nine years in the National footb You know what I'm saying, right, Like,
it's it can make or break a game, and when
it goes well, it can go great, and if it
(02:12):
doesn't go well, it's like another situation, you know what
I mean. Yeah, Usually, you know, when you look at highlights,
when you're a special teamer or core special teamer as
I was with the San Francisco forty nine is in
the Seattle Seahawks, oftentimes we are plays don't get on
the highlight packages of these you know shows, right unless
it's something really really bad or really really good. If
(02:33):
you're just doing your job normal, you don't get any recognition.
There are certain players that keep you watching no matter
what you know, if it's an offensive player, if it's
a defensive player. Very rarely are there the special performers,
the return guys where you go, you know what, this
dude might be able to take it to the house,
Like I'm not gonna this is not the time for
the bathroom break, because I want to see this guy
(02:55):
and see what he can do. Devon Hester, for me,
is one of those players. But I think we should
start with a little bit of the history around the
punt return. This is actually something that's been a part
of the game. The first punt return for a touchdown
Week two of the nineteen twenty season, that was the
first punt return. Yes, it was when Frank Bacon recorded
(03:17):
the first punt return for a touchdown, his sixty yard
or that helped the Dayton Triangles beat the Columbus Panhandles
fourteen to nothing. You heard me right, the Dayton Triangles.
By the way, if you're into team names, I'm just saying,
if you want to go back to last season's NFL
Explain podcast, you will be able to go through the
(03:38):
history of a lot of the names for NFL teams.
I don't really remember the Columbus Panhandles. But nonetheless, there
were five punt return touchdowns in the first ever season
in nineteen twenty. More than one hundred years later, they've
only been three punt return touchdowns in two so far.
So explain to me, m Rob, why are there fewer
(03:58):
punt returns that you think we're seeing in the game. Well,
first and foremost, the development of offenses and you know
the game, and these quarterbacks just moving the ball up
and down the field. The opportunity for punt returns are
just getting less because the offense and defensive groups are
taking up some of the players a little bit more.
But I think it's because when you look at the
(04:19):
punt return play in particular, because that's what we're talking about,
it encompasses both offensive philosophy and defensive philosophy. Right, when
you're on punt return, when you're rushing the punter to
try to block the punt, that's more of a defensive thing. Right,
you're rushing, Right, you're rushing, you're trying to take the
ball away from the opposing offense because when they're punning,
they still have the ball, they still have possession that
(04:40):
steer their ball. So you're still trying to create good
opportunities for your team. And then when the ball is kicked,
that gets transitioned and now you're playing offense again. Punt
and punt return are the only two fastest of the
game that are like this way. One part of it
is offense, the next part of it is defense. And
so punt return, Yeah, now I gotta worry about holding.
(05:00):
Now I gotta worry about my relation to the punt
return or the guy with the football afterward, about all
the offensive principles to make the play a positive thing.
So yeah, I think that's why it's so hard to
get a punt return is because it's just an encompasses
so many different aspects of our game. A little bit
later in this podcast, we're gonna go through some of
the best punt returners that the game has ever seen
(05:22):
and some of the best ones that we have seen
in the actual game. You kind of touched on it
a little bit, but let's go a little bit more
in depth on some of the philosophies around how you
execute successfully a punt return for a touchdown. Take me
through schematically what is actually happening on the field, because well,
I think for a casual fan, you're like, yo, it's
(05:42):
like kill the man with the football. I've been as
crazy am I've been the returner, Like I've actually had
the opportunity have to catch the football. Here my spotter
from the sideline telling me where everybody is catching it.
Have to figure out where I am in relation to
what the return is. I've been a guy blocking for
the return, I've been a guy rushing the return. I've
(06:04):
I've done it all from the punt return standpoints. So
it's a little bit of a of a just a
unique position. But yes, we have plays. A lot of
times there's sideline returns or middle returns or ali returns.
And when I say ali, that means there's a part. Yeah,
I'm going to the right, there's a right return for
the returner. But from a blocking unit, part of that
(06:26):
blocking unit will be blocking guys out, and part of
the blocking unit will be trying to seal guys. So
you're trying to get like an alley down the numbers
part of the football field. Those are really, from a
schematic standpoint, the real plays of pump return. Yeah, you
can have reverses and specials and things like that that
comes with it, but yeah, those are really the plays
when it comes to punt return, A lot of us
(06:47):
luck man, A lot of it is catching the football,
the returner just having space and you want to get Look,
a returner can't make eleven guys mess at one time,
but he can make one guy miss eleven times. You
get what I'm saying. So you want to get defense.
He's want to get guys on different levels so that
(07:08):
if your returner is encountering a a free guy, he's
one on one with that guy and then he has
enough space to be one on one with the next person. Okay,
so you also played quarterback. You know how thick some
of those playbooks can be. What you just describe in
terms of the return game is not exactly the same playbook, no,
how much of it is dictated by where you actually
are on the field. Like I would imagine for you
(07:31):
when you were playing quarterback. Situationally, if you're at the
goal line, you know you're you're thinking about what three
four plays that are kind of like the go toos
in these situations. How much do you focus in on
when you're you know, trotting out there and you know
it's a fourth down from the other team they're punting,
and you go, okay, cool, like I'm at the forty
or hey, I'm inside that ten. Take me through what
(07:52):
you're actually thinking about in those moments. Well, it depends, right,
It depends on your opponent and who you're playing. If
you're playing a punt team, I'm just gonna throw a
name out they're like this, like like the Rams Sean McVeigh.
They'll fake upon on you, they'll throw a pass or whatever.
So whenever you get around the forty or you know,
between both forties and the fifty yard line, because if
(08:14):
you were to fake it there, the opposing team still
has a little bit of a ways to go to
get a touchdown. And you know you're dealing with a
team that will fake the football. Maybe then you're in
a punt safe so you do have kind of a
return on. Maybe you keep your defense out there just
to talk a punt team out from faking it. And
what you'll do is you're rush two or three guys
and then just have those guys drop back to have
(08:35):
a certain return that is kind of like a punt
safe deal. You maybe have somebody backed up. You may
have a rush right, and every single rush has a
sideline return with it, right, So you may have all
eight guys up at the line of scrimmage. You may
have them all rushed the punter. Hey, you guys missed.
After you guys missed, we're gonna all turn around and
now this turns into a right return for the punt return.
(08:56):
So again for all of our listeners and viewers out there,
the punt team it and just going out there and saying, okay,
we're just gonna catch the football and see what happens. No,
that there is a method to the madness. There is
the direction you're trying to kind of move the punt
team bodies into so that you can have a return
and in the play. On a positive note, how hard
is it to locate the football once it leaves the
(09:17):
puncher's foot? Very man, I can't lie, especially as a
returner um and really really the destroyers the guys who
are so again, you have a punt team, you have
a punt return team. The gunners are the guys that
on the punt team that right at the snap of
the ball there on the outside, they get to go
to the to the returner, they get to go to
the ball. The destroyers usually are in a vice grip
(09:40):
or have two guys out there to stop those guys
from getting the free runs on the returner. And to me,
they have one of the hardest jobs. They don't know
where the ball is. They're fighting a guy, They're trying
to block a guy running all the way downfielding their
back is to the ball and the returner. And I
can't tell you, Yams, how many times where a returner
is yelling Peter Peter, which means basically get away or
(10:01):
oscary or whatever the co word maybe for that punt
return team, and the destroyer just doesn't hear him because
he's engaged in a fight with the with the gunner
on that side. And then the ball lands and hits
the gunner and then it's a free ball after that.
So it's a lot of different dynamics that goes on
with the pump return team, and you gotta communicate and
oftentimes from a pump return standpoint, at that juncture of
(10:24):
the game, littleois is happening in the game because the
other team is punting. If you're at home, you're you know,
your crowd is excited. So it's just a lot of
different factors that go on to the pump return. Oh yeah,
on top of it's not like these are starters and
I and I was a core special teamer. If you're
a backup in the National Football League, you play special teams.
(10:45):
There is no qualms about it. It's only forty six
of us that are live on game based. So you
gotta do it all right outside of the safe moments
where it's just like, hey, just make sure you catch
a clean At what point is it all feel like
I gotta imagine if I'm out on of the football field,
I got ten to thousands of fans that are just screaming.
I got lights, I got banners, I got the whole thing.
You just told me. It's hard to locate the football.
(11:07):
You got gunners that are coming down and you know
they're bearing down on you. Is it all feel? Before
you start waving hey, you know, fair catch? Like, what's
sort of that that point in your mind when that
ball is up in the air because you're not looking
at the gunners. You gotta be looking up. Yeah, you're
just are you just feeling guys out there? Like, how
do you figure that out? There is a feel to it,
there is um, there is a spatial awareness. Then yes,
(11:31):
oftentimes you have the loudest coach on your coaching staff
on the sideline screaming you're good. And that was what
they said to me, Mike, you're good, You're good? Or no, No,
you hear the word no, you start crossing your hands,
you start saying no, get away, get away, get away,
and start yelling whatever your cold word is for guys
to kind of get away. But yeah, there there always
(11:52):
is a plan. There is a feel aspect to it,
and Um, there's also game planning. So let's say, for instance,
when I play, we would play against I'm just gonna
throw out the Pittsburgh Steelers, right. They always had a
bunch of linebackers on their roster because they were three
four teams. So you knew a teams that were three
four that have a lot of that guy. Well, you
(12:13):
know that their special teamers are gonna be a lot
of linebackers. Exactly. I don't want any of that. I
don't want to get hit by it, right, L No,
But if there's a lot of linebackers on your punt team, right,
maybe not the fastest guys, maybe not the most guys
with the most agility, then yeah, as a returner, as
a as a punt return team, we're gonna have a
lot more sideline returns, especially if I got a guy
(12:35):
like a Percy Harvard or Alan Rosson who I played
with in San Francisco, or Leon Washington we had in
Seattle before we had Percy Harvard, we got speak guys
like that, and we're playing against a bunch of linebackers.
Everything is a sideline return games, everything, And I was
that guy that would I was always the personal protector
on punt and on punt return. Basically the guys that
(12:55):
would you know, call off the return. I would get
the call from the special teams coordinator. I would also
be the guy to identify what's happening. Oh, this wing
is on the ball, that guy's off the ball. Alert, alert,
alert to save something's up. This ain't normal, right I
was that guy? Or when the ball is kicked, I'll
be the one drop back and be the personal protector
(13:17):
for the return er. So just being able to identify
the different things that the punt team is trying to
do to you. And ultimately, your goal is to give
the ball to your offense. Yeah, I'm gonna repeat that again.
The ultimate goal is to give the ball to your offense.
And if you can make a quick ten yards off
the return to that's also a goal. Hey, real quick,
here is it? Just to circle back you said, the
(13:37):
lottest coach is saying, Mike, you're good. You're good. No, no, no,
just for clarification purpose, you good means you're supposed to run.
You can catch it. You have enough space to go,
there's no danger, you can go and return it. If
he's saying no, he's basically saying you got too much
danger around you. Just make sure we catch the ball
and get the possession, and at that point you're going
(13:58):
fair catch. Yes, all right, Welcome back to the NFL
Explained Podcasts. Mike, Yam and Rob with you and Rob,
just one other thing on this you have said it's
hard to locate the football. And by the way, very
rarely on this show do I feel like I have
real world experience this one I actually do. Uh years ago,
(14:22):
I had try to catch a football out of a
jugs machine up in the air. I was over three,
and I couldn't get over how much spin there was
on the ball. And not only was it harder to track,
but when it was coming down, I couldn't get over
how fast it was dropping. How difficult it is it
to actually catch the football in those situations. It's very
(14:42):
different than if you're a wide receiver. Like the angle
of the ball is just completely different, completely different. It's
like it's falling out of the sky man literally it is.
It is well, um, the nose of the football is
very important. The nose of the football, especially in a
punt or pass. It tells you exactly where the ball
is going. If the nose is up yams right, which
(15:03):
I'm assuming these jug machine put that you were trying
to catch. The nose was up. When the nose is up,
the read for the returner is the back of the
ball because the nose is up, meaning at the at
its apex, the ball is gonna drop in the back
part of the ball is gonna direct it where it's going. Okay,
(15:23):
so you see the nose up. You notice at its
peak the nose is still up. You better get the
running up. That ball is gonna drop because if the
nose is up the back is down. That means it's
gonna drop really really fast. And when you're catching the football,
you want to keep your hands high right. Um, I
know a lot of our YouTubers can see us, but
keep your hands high, right. You want to keep your
(15:44):
hands as high as possible because the the the sight
of the human being. We lose the football in the
last six inches of flight. That is why that picture
you showed me. If you catching, that's why the picture
you showed me, your eyes were almost closed. The ball
was falling in your hands. We're reaching out for the
(16:06):
ball because it started making this started like a hard
turn on me at the last second, Again, your hands
weren't high, you weren't following the back of the ball,
so you had no idea where it was gonna fall. Now,
in contrast to that, a game ball is kicked noses
up at its apex. You see the ball turn over.
(16:27):
Now the nose turns over to Now the nose is down.
Now you better back up. That ball is gonna carry right,
because that was like a pass. Now it turns over
and now it's it's not gonna drop straight down when
it falls. It's gonna fall more with a with an
arc and over. So whenever when I was a return,
I saw the nose up at its peak, and I
knew it was gonna turn over. I sprint it back
(16:49):
now because it's easier to catch the ball going forward
than catch the ball running backwards. So you just want
to put yourself in a better body position so that
you don't fumble. All right, Not to get two into
the weeds on the technical aspect of this, but I
do think it's important to highlight here we talked about
wide receivers in the previous episode. I know this sounds counterintuitive,
but I'm gonna say it anyway. Wide receivers the best
(17:09):
guys catch with their hands. And I think people will say, well,
of course they catch with their hands. No, No No, What
I mean by that is they literally are only catching
with their hands and not their bodies right where the
balls kind of like they're trapping the ball around their chest.
What you were just describing to me in my own
personal experience, I had no chance of at the end
of the day, even if I had known, Like on
(17:30):
the third try, every single tempt there was three attempts,
every single one, I got closer the third one and
it hit my hands, Like I just couldn't think if
I had to do it again, I'm a little less
this is I'm definitely a lot older and a little
less athletic. But I think knowing where it could have been,
I could probably could have figured it out. But the
ball hit my hands. I wasn't going to catch the
ball at the speed and velocity it was going down.
(17:53):
Now that I'm hearing you, I think I couldn't have
caught the ball with my hands. I think I would
have needed my body. Do all punt returners and they
thinking like that, can you catch a punt with just
your hands? You can? And again you got say first
of all, we're dealing with the best athletes in the world. Okay, yeah, yeams,
I'm sorry, dealing with the best athletes in the world.
(18:15):
So they got hands. I got like Kenny Picket size hands.
Not sorry. And they're small too, Broy really small. But
that's a whole another conversation about draft and draft attributes. Um,
but these guys have hands, and so what happens is
you just you want to give yourself the best opportunity
for something bad not to happen. And so yes, most
(18:39):
time they're gonna try to catch it with their bodies right,
because the ball is coming down pretty fast. But if
you have your hands high, and you know you're a
good tracker of the football in the last six centuries,
you're gonna lose it if it does move a little bit.
Your instincts and the fact that you're one of the
top athletes in the world that parts of you kick in.
There are punts in times in my life where I've
(19:01):
caught the football in this out here, but I was
in a position to catch it. It's just that now
had to make a last second adjustment, and obviously it
kicks in. Yeah, those last second adjustments, that's kind of
what did me? And I just did it like it's
all good. Yeah. Well I saw at one time when
the teleprompter with blank and Yams did a last minute adjustment.
He did the last twenty seconds of the show off
(19:22):
the top of the dome. That is what I'm talking about.
I'm much better in those situations, trust me, than the
ones actually out on the field. I dropped his name
a little bit earlier in this podcast, Devin Hester, And
at least for me, he is still the ultimate. And
there's some other great names. And I gotta interrupt you.
I trained with DEVI came out in the same draft
we were. We trained with Tom Shaw down there um
(19:45):
and at the Wild World of Sports in Disney in Florida.
We were in the same draft class. I remember watching
him at Miami and when we were training, we got
a chance to talk and kind of like hang out
or whatever, and I might Devin, Bro, what's up? Man? Like,
how did you get Like it's like the minute you
step on the field for the return, the entire stadium
(20:08):
stands up. That guy. You know what I'm saying. He's like, Bro,
you gotta understand. Mike. During track season in high school,
we might get fifteen thousand people short up for a
track meet. I said, what he said, Yeah, it's a
little different in Florida. And so what I started to
notice is, man, yet, the speed is different. The way
that they respect speed down there in Florida is a
(20:30):
little bit different. And Devin had no fear. All of
the greatest returners that I've ever tried to tackle, I've
ever tried, I've ever had the block four, they had
no fear. Not saying that they didn't understand that there
may be a couple of hitters on the plant team
with a kickoff team or anything like that. But when
they caught the ball, they put their foot in the
grint and they decided to go forward. There was no fear.
(20:50):
There was no doubt that they were going to get
past the combat zone, which is when I say combat zone,
that's really usually the ten or fifteen yard zone where
all the blocking and stuff happens. Right, they were always
confident they were going to get through. And the second
thing that made Devin Hester ridiculously good and most returners,
you ready for this, jams, it's something that's biological. Okay,
(21:12):
dude ain't had no hips. Dude ain't had no hips, bro, Like,
what do you mean when you tackle somebody right and
you grab them a lot of times you're falling off
until you meet assid hips. Hopefully I can say that. Okay, Yeah,
it's all good. Okay. With Devin, he was straight up
and down. Cribs straight up and down, Dante Hall straight up,
(21:37):
and they're all they all with. You know, most of
these returners have the same physical attributes, you see what
I'm saying, and so when you try to tackle them,
these guys slipped right out of tackles. And then Devin
once he started returning kicks, now all of a sudden
he's in the punt team's head. And I remember playing
against him as a rookie. I remember, actually, I think
I played against Devon every single year in my career
(21:59):
and going out as a punt team, he creates anxiety
through the out them what could happen to you? Because
you know it can happen. You're sitting there with the
plump Like literally I plump returned. I mean our special
teams coach Brian Schneider. Uh, he was with the Seattle Seahars.
I think he's with the San Francisco for the Niners
right now. We will be on the sideline like, yo,
are we kicking it to him? We're like yeah, because
(22:21):
it's an ego thing. Damn right, We're gonna kick it
the deaf ass and I'm gonna make the tackle in
the minute he catches it. You can feel the energy
of the stadium. It's like I'm watching a video game.
It's like you can hear a fan start going real fans.
It's like it's like the energy turns up. And then
all of a sudden, I'm I'm running down the middle
(22:41):
of the field. He's in front of me. Then all
of a sudden, I start turning, and I'm turning, he's
turning the corner. And then all of a sudden, you
start thinking, I'm gonna get cracked back on. Let me
start looking, and you start looking, and then he's gone,
and he's gone in its touchdown. Bro, It's some of
the weirdestuff've ever seen. Patrick Peterson had the same effect,
and he first got in the legal we would kick
it to him. I remember telling our coach, hey, bro,
(23:02):
I don't kick the Patrick. He's too young and fast.
He just is I remember said looking at I had
Jeff albrig who's the defense coordinator um for the Jets
right now? We want special teams together. He farewell, we
were on special teams together. I think he's the special
teams coordinator up there in Buffalo. I remember having conversations
with these guys like, Bro, we can't tackle him. These
(23:24):
are real conversations on the side. So why because we're
at home hoping that you can't know him? Right? So,
like we all get it now, this is the first
time I've ever heard it articulated. Why are you even
bothering kicking to these guys? Well, because again, you get
a guy like real Mike rob who I was a
special teamer, pro bowler, all of those things you talk
(23:44):
your special teams coach and then making some stupid decisions.
But coach, we can do it. But that got the coach.
He's one of the best punters and at least the
putting I think I think he punts for the Arizona
Cardinals right now. Okay, yes, one of the best punters
in the league. We can pin him to the side.
We've worked on this all week. We penned him two
yards from the sideline. He's gonna catch it. Then we
(24:04):
can corral him. Make sure our backside wing stays in
his lane because he's gonna show up. Guess what backside
wing thinks he can make. The tackle gives up the edge,
Devin has to score another such Percy Harvd was elite
at that too. Yeah, well look not no, no, I
love it. It actually paints a really good picture of
of what we're discussing here. By the way, just for
(24:26):
some of the fans who might not be familiar with
Devin Hester, just a couple of things I'll throw out
your way. Four time pro bowler. I'm looking at some
of my notes. Fourteen career punt return touchdowns. That is
the most in NFL history. He had four of them
in two thousand seven. That ties for the most in
a season in NFL history. Can you mention having four
of those in the season? They are who we thought
(24:47):
they went, not like we gave it to him. I
sent a kick to the devil. Hester. Why did I
listen to Mike rob my special teams captain. That's probably yeah,
he didn't drop that on it, but we did get
a memorable sound bite. The other two leaders on the
most punt return yards game in a career. The NFL history.
Ryan Mitchell nearly five thousand, four thousand, Dave Megat. I
(25:11):
remember him just bawling out with the Giants back in
the day three thousand, seven hundred eight yards, and then
Hester just behind him three thousand, six hundred Brian Mitchell,
Dave Megat. They came from a generation or the end
of the running back generation, right. I mean, this game
for so long ran through the backs. I mean we
(25:31):
had fullbacks going touch I think Frank o' harris who
just passed out too long ago, I think his official
position with fullback or something like that at some point
um in his career. So those guys, Dave Megan, Brian Mitchell,
they were toward the end the back half of offenses
being dominated, teams being dominated by the running back. And
it's because again just think about it, yams. They got
(25:52):
great hands when they get the ball in their hands,
they're a tough person to bring down to the ground.
And I think when you look from a return standpoint,
that's what guys were looking for back in the day.
If you do like running backs, you want to hear
about the decline of that position. Oh, we just did
an episode on that one. The reevaluation of the running
back position. You can frame it. However, office coordinators think
(26:16):
they want to throw the ball all over the place
running backs man, let's go okay, well, you you be
the judge of it, and you can decide one of
Henry irony. No, No, I wouldn't say that to face,
and I wouldn't say it about him. How about that,
I'll double down, no decline in the king. There have been,
by the way, some real changes to punt returns over
(26:36):
the years in order to increase a little bit of
action and tempo, including restrictions placed on members of the
punt team in order to open up return possibilities. Give
you an example. Seventy four, the NFL barred all offensive
players except for the two farthest from the ball. Those
are the gunners that m rob made reference to, from
crossing the line of scrimmage until the ball was punted. Then,
(26:58):
in nineteen seventy nine, players on the punt return team
were barred from blocking below the waist for safety reasons,
which is definitely a huge one. I couldn't imagine running
down team and having the guard against a low block.
Are you kidding me? Hill? Hill Asau about that? Even
the changes that were made to open up the punt
(27:19):
return game, the average yards on punt return steadily decreased
from eleven to nineteen before increasing the past couple of seasons,
just for context purposes, punt return average yards per return
nine point six. Let's fast forward to all the way
down to seven point six, and then once again over
(27:39):
the last three seasons there's been an increase eight point eight,
eight point eight, and then this season we're sitting at nine.
The player who actually holds the record for the highest
average punt return yardage is Chicago Bear George McAfee, who
played ninety one and then forty five to fifty. Man
for real, I mean, I'm a little surprised. I mean,
(28:03):
but I mean I always and again, I know some
of the ore legends players a good outset with me
for saying this. I just I just wondered about the
competition back in the days, right, like, you know, the
average almost thirteen yards of punt return. But who are
you going again? All right? You took me into the
weeds when it comes to the philosophy and the mechanics
of the punt return. So we've already covered that. But
(28:24):
when we come back on the NFL Explaining podcast, we'll
discuss some of the greats and some of the biggest
punt returns the game has ever seen. All Right, this
is my second favorite thing that we do in the show.
You know what it is that just tell people, you
(28:44):
know where the d M R don't don't, don't d
M d M yeah you d M By the way,
they actually have been coming fast and furious, like there
is something to consistency and constantly promoting things. So if
you have a question for the NFL Explained crew and
you want us to do answer that question for you,
send me the note. Legitimately you're on the threat. I know.
(29:04):
I say this every every on he actually you know,
takes a screenshot. He actually puts it on the thread.
But it's good for me too, because you know, I'm
an analyst. I've forgotten more football than a lot of
people know. And at the end of the day sometimes
I gloss over stuff just thinking everybody understands what I'm
talking about. So the questions are just a good reminder
that not everybody understands it at the level that we do,
(29:26):
and it just gives us a chance to break some
things down that you use we there. You know how
many times I've seen the question. I'm like, that is
like the best question ever. And I hit him back
and I'm like, Yo, that's an awesome one. We'll get
it in. And you know, and there's been a few
of these times where I've said I've asked the same
exact question. I promise we'll work this too, one of
those mail bag episodes. So keep the questions coming. We
really do appreciate it. But we are talking about the
(29:47):
art of the punt return and Rob did a great
job explaining some of the fundamentals around those situations, technique, philosophies, schematically,
what we see on the field, what we want to do. Though,
you start talking about some of the records and some
of the individuals who actually execute what m Rob was
talking about. So the team actually the most punt return
touchdowns in the season nineteen fifty nine, Chicago Cardinals, Yes,
(30:12):
you heard me, Ryan, the only team in NFL history
to have five punt return touchdowns in a single season.
By the way, I said that, Devin Hester tied the
record four in one season. How about this the record
for a whole year, Chicago Cardinals in nineteen fifty nine.
That's crazy. And to also see that the Arizona Cardinals
in twenty eleven, I think that's the Patrick Peterson time
(30:33):
when he was there was a part of that. Again again,
when when you have these exciting returners made, it just
affects so many different aspects of you football team. Four
players that have scored four punt returns for a touchdown
in a season in NFL history four total. Check this out. Peterson,
who you made reference too, good call, that was that
eleven team he had four by himself. Devin Hester two
(30:54):
thousand seven with the Bears he had fourteen, Rick up
Church had the four, and then in nineteen fifty one
from Detroit, Jack Christiansen all show with four. I'm almost
surprised that we haven't had a right over the last
few years or so, like one dude who well, especially
(31:14):
with the the type of athletes that right like today.
But I also think when you think about Hester, and
you know when Patrick Peterson was coming along, that's when
Hester was kind of on his way out. I just
think that you had organizations embraced special team. I mean
just throughout history, you just don't see teams embracing and
when you usually when you think of special teams, you
(31:36):
think about kicker, snapper, holder, You don't necessarily think returner
or the personal protector or you know, some of the
different things that your punter can do. So yeah, it's
pretty cool. I just think in that time in football history,
teams embraced special teams. So I've made reference to this
on this podcast. It's not breaking news, but I spent
a large portion of my career over the last ten
years or so covering college football. What it reminds me
(31:57):
of Christian McCaffrey when he was at Stanford. I mean,
he's another guy where you just stopped just to make
sure whenever Stanford was on offense, but sir le on
special teams, his ability to cut loose. Here now he's
with the forty Niners. Ryer McLeod does a great job
for those guys. I can't imagine, though, can you imagine
if McCaffrey was back. I guarantee and I don't notice
for a fat I ain't been to a Servantisco for
(32:18):
the out of practice and probably I don't know three
years now since the last time practice. I guarantee you
he catches punts still to this day. I guarantee you.
That is just in case, in case somebody gets hurt
or whatever, or Kyle may just come him and say, look, bro,
I just needed you to catch it. You the guy
trust go out there and catch it, guarantee you. He
still catches punts, you know. And it's weird too because
some guys have success at the college level in that
(32:39):
and then they don't necessarily have the same success. Well again,
it's not as glorified man, Like I'm telling you, Like,
when you get to the National Football League, you want
to you know, you want to go to the money spots.
You know, quarterback pass well left. What's the pay scale
for overturner? Like, where's that coming to? We're still debating,
which I don't. I think the debate is ridiculous. But
(33:02):
people are still debating on whether Devin has to should
be a Hall of Famer. Like when you impact, when
you impact, feel position like that and you were exciting
the way Devin Hester was definitely a Hall of Fame.
I saw Dante Pettis set an n C double a
record in the return game and yet and he does
still return in the league. We see that occasionally, but
it's it's you know, well it's different too. It's different
(33:22):
guys running down there, because I ain't gonna lie like
I'm running down in the last of the football league.
This tackle is going to being I pay my bills,
the reason why my little girl has food in her mouth.
So yeah, you're gonna get if you're gonna get this work, gams,
It's just guy breaks off a big return for a
(33:43):
touchdown in the punt game. What's it like on the sideline?
So is this against us? Or give me both pump return.
Let's start with the positive. Positive, So pump return, we
blocked for a good punt return, whatever, a lot of
excitement on the sideline. I'm not gonna lie. From a
special teamer standpoint, I'm thinking, Okay, did I block my guy?
(34:03):
Did I get full points in the special team points system? Okay?
Did I get pluses? I ain't get no negatives on this.
We all got a game change in place, so that's
extra points because you know, I know in Seattle we
had like top park of the week. You know what
I'm saying. It's like a point system. We were gett
and then we'd have talk top park of the year.
Out of my four years, I got it two years.
The fire War got it two years too. We kind
(34:24):
of used to go back and fadge of honor has
a badger on them at the shirts and everything. You
know what I'm saying. But I would always think about
about the point system number one, and can I be
honest with you, I would think, get your win together.
You got kick off, like literally you you just don't
have enough time to sit and just think, oh, we
just did this, heyy happy happy, No, I'm thinking about
(34:47):
what I gotta do next. People always ask me what
I did on Beast Quake when he ran and did
all that time. I said, but I was thinking about Kioff.
I was blocking. But I don't think about kickoff on
the next play. And at the end of the day, man,
you don't get a chance to really celebrate those long returns,
of those big time returns until the defense goes back
out there. And one would think that the defense will
be upset because now they just they forced the punt.
(35:08):
They go out there, get a scored award, and they
gotta go back out there for you know, some of
them have field goal, you know, extra point protection. Then
they got to go back out there and kick off
and then defense, so they're excited. Anytime we're scoring points,
the defense is excited. And oftentimes the more points it
puts the opposing offense in like, um, you know, one
dimensional game. So they like that, alright. Uh. One of
(35:28):
the note, by the way, on Devon Hester, I feel
like there's like a lot of homage that we're paying him,
and rightfully, yeah, no doubt. He does hold the career
record for punt return touchdowns with fourteen. That's actually four
more than the next guy on the list. Eric Metcalf
is that guy with tim We made reference to Brian
Mitchell earlier in the podcast. He has nine, but Emerald
(35:49):
in the mid two thousand's punts were actually returned to
the fifty percent of the time. That's dropped to a
low of fort in recent years, which makes the record
for the most punt returns for a touchdown in a
career ridiculously impressive. Mitchell, whose number we gave before, with nine,
he's returned a hundred more punts than any other player
in NFL history. More opportunity, isn't that wild? More chances
(36:13):
to get into the end zone. That is pretty crazy, man.
And again, the more chances you get, the more opportunities
you get for an explosive play and explosive touchdowns. But man,
Brian Mitchell was a dog man, and I'm saying that
in a good way. He was a dog man when
he gets the ball in his he was tough to
bring down. Yeah, you want dogs on your team. Uh.
Danny Rees, by the way, holds the record for the
most punt returns in a season in NFL history nineteen
(36:35):
seventy nine, seventy of them wild ex from a cluster,
by the way, in the most recent with fifty eight
punt returns in a season. You mentioned special teams, right, Like,
how does a player just go and say, you know what,
this is gonna be my career. I'm gonna be special teams? Dude, Well,
so you know I do USFL games. And the m
(36:58):
VP of that league, Cavante Turpin, ended up getting an
opportunity with the Dallas Cowboys as a turn and a monster,
and he has been a monster. And I think what
happened was he developed a reputation his speed jumps off
the tape and I think he's gonna be in the
National Football League for a while now. I mean he's
a real weapon. I think you at least gotta have
the threat of getting touchdowns almost every single time touch
(37:21):
the ball. I think you have to have Opposing special
team coaches have to put you up on the big
board on Monday when you first start your game planning,
and then everybody has to worry about you again. I
played with Alan rossellm I played against Allen Rossum and
I blocked for Allen Rossum. When you played against him, yes,
you knew Monday you was gonna have a problem. Dude
(37:42):
was a track star and he could run through tackles.
Leon Washington same type of dude. Percy Harvard the same
type of dude. And obviously we talked about Devin Hester,
Patrick Peterson and those guys. I just think that there's
an energy that these guys bring to a team. And yeah,
as the numbers bear out, they don't score a lot
of points, they don't score all the time. But at
the end of the day, if you can flip field position,
if you can average getting that ten to fifteen yards
(38:05):
a single time you get a return, that's the first down.
That was one of our goals as a special teams group.
Retain the football, have the possession and get a first down.
The minute you get the football, get those ten yards
turned bad into good. What's crazy about this is I
said the record for hester in a single season was four.
I guess subconsciously I knew it wasn't a bigger number
than that. But if I think back to that era
(38:27):
and watching him that season, you would have thought it
was happening like every game because we participated, right, Yeah,
you got ready for it. And again it's the vibe
around and did he grated the whole press confice man,
we thought they were. I don't know why you kicked
it to him? Yeah, exactly because there was that best Uh.
(38:51):
You know, this actually surprised me going through the notes here.
There's only been one punt return in NFL history that's
gone for a hundred plus yards. You would have thought
that it was higher. Robert Bailey a hundred and three
yard returned. Patrick Peterson, by the way, who's we've loved up.
He had nine yards, so he was knocking on the
door there. And just a little side note, I know
the Super Bowl is right around the corner here. Uh,
(39:13):
it has never happened a punt return for a touchdown
in a super Bowl, so I know that can't be
one of your favorite memories because it hasn't happened yet.
At some point it will. That dude might be your
Super Bowl MVP when it does happen. By the way,
is there one that stands out to you when you
were either player on the sideline, when you were a
kid watching the games? Like, is there that one iconic
moment for you? Iconic moment? I don't know if it's
(39:34):
an iconic moment. I mean, obviously we remember, you know,
Desmond Howard's when he got Super m v P. You know,
the big one that we talked about that was a
kickoff I think you know what I mean. But he
did have ninety return yards in the punt return game,
I mean, you know, in the part return game in
that Super Bowl and he won m v P. Obviously
we talked about Patrick Peterson, Um, Devin Hester, Dante Hall. Uh.
You know, I think we ought to give him a
(39:56):
little bit of credits to I forget what year it was,
and I don't even know if I was in the
league when it happened. I think he was playing the
Denver Broncles. He did some spinning around and it was
in a flatty caught the ball. He spent like three
or four times. I interviewed him about it a few
years ago and he said that play was when he
knew he could make a career out of being a returner.
It was like this minute he got to the sideline,
(40:18):
everybody was like, dude, we gotta get to the ball.
That So that's when he knew he had found he
had found this place. But, um, this game has had
some really really unique returners in his history. I've played
against a lot of them. Again, Um, Joshua Cribs, we
still have you know, we haven't talked about and guys
like that, But these guys are unique. These guys are
have no fear and they take returns very seriously. I
(40:42):
mean again, a guy like Leon Washington, dude just dreamed
about returning the ball. And he was one of my
best friends on the team. So yeah, man, big time
influence on team. It's funny. I'm looking at Dante Hall
and and his success. He was a two time pro bowler.
He has got six career punt returns for a touchdown.
That's the ninth most in NFL history. Five punt returns
for a touchdown in seven years with Kansas City. By
(41:04):
the way, just in case you're wondering, Yes, of course,
what about that Sean Jackson went against the what was
it against the Giants? He played for Philly. When I
kick that, he kind of around. Oh, that was so dope.
When I remember seeing that, I said, dude, it was
the personal protector. I was like, because you know, as
a personal protector, when you're puntingat you gotta be the
one right over the football man and if he cuts back,
(41:25):
that's your tackle. Oh that was a walk off. Let's go. Uh,
you know, it's one of the things I remember watching
that game live. One of the things that I do
remember was Coughlin just going berserk because he probably said
he shouldn't kick it to him, and he got talked
into allowing it to happen, and he was probably wanting
to punch himself for kicking it to him. He was
(41:45):
going nuts. Matt Dodd, who was the punter, it just
I do vividly remember, you know. And Tom had that
like that glow about him and when I got cold,
like his whole face would be read and it was
just kind of kind of go. But I remember like
he was blowing a gasket ball field, but a ton
of fun I actually when I heard it, I was like, Oh,
this will be cool. I didn't think we go to
(42:05):
slong on this is this lihouse, ma'am? Yeah? No, man,
kind of like digging deep on this. I hope everyone
enjoyed this episode. The art of the punt return explained.
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