The Evolution of the Wide Receiver

As play on the field evolves, so do the standards placed on each position. In this episode of the NFL explained. podcast, Mike Yam and Michael Robinson talk about the wide receiver position and how it has changed as defensive position players get faster and more powerful, and as quarterbacks become more and more nimble. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership
with I Heart Radio. All Right, you know, on this
podcast we try to teach people about the NFL, my
camp Michael Robinson with you. There's something else that I've
been learning working with you, m Rosco. That you are,

(00:26):
and I've said this on another podcast, one of the
more positive people that I know. But if you ever
throw shade at someone, it's because of the attire that
they potentially are. I shouldn't say potentially. Kyler Murray, Yes, you.
We did a segment on t A the other day.
You threw some shade his way and I was surprised.
Well again, you call it shade, Yams, but it's more

(00:47):
of my expectations for that player are so high and
I don't see him reaching those expectations. So I'm a
little disappointed. Right, I'm a little disappointed. So it comes
from a place of positivity. Let's say that still figure
out a way to bring it, bring it full circle. Today,
we're gonna have some fun. We're gonna actually talk about
one of the more explosive positions on the football field,

(01:08):
that is the wide receiver spot. But I want to
take you back November. Let that one sink in for
just a second. Did you have any idea like why
that is a significant date from a wide receiver's perspection? Okay,
now that's just say it that way. I'm assuming there
was something of kids don't on that day. There's the
running back. Wait, actually, and Manning's gonna he won news.

(01:35):
Oh there's a flag how in the little Oh my goodness,
you have to be kidding me. That is impossible. That
is absolutely impossible. What he just did. That may be
the greatest catch I've ever seen in my life. It's wow.

(01:55):
Oh b J Handling Business Collins work said it maybe
the greatest catch you ever saw. I feel like we're
getting a lot of these more frequently. But when you
saw it, what was your take? I was like, oh,
my goodness, that can't be for real. And then I
was like, well, he had to be out of bounds.
And to me, what made that O. B J catch
so amazing is he scored. He scored a touchdown, so

(02:17):
we actually put the ball across the goal line as well,
not only just the catch, but got some points for
seeing That's what made it amazing to me. All Right,
So we played the audio for you. If you if
you're a little on the younger side of our demo
who checks out this show, I encourage you. You can
go on YouTube it like all the kids do the
catch as m Rob just made reference to Eli Manning

(02:38):
the quarterback h's the forty three yard reception with one hand,
fingertips the whole thing. You know, there's a part of
me and says, all right, dudes are skilled, and I
get this. I got This is probably the second or
third time I've made reference to him on this podcast.
But Curtis Conway, good buddy of mine. Sea Way would
always say this to me. Oh man, those receiver gloves
a little different than what I used to play. They're
really sticky, and they actually have a bunch of them.

(03:00):
I think they're just more sticky than the ones from
back in the day. They are sticky. They are little
bit more sticky than the old Newman gloves that I
used to wear when I was growing up. But look,
these guys if they're not making these catches because of
the gloves. Okay, the gloves help, yes, like Spider Man, alright,
scaling walls with the way some of these gloves are.

(03:21):
But you're outside catching with those gloves. There's not other
defensive backs trying to tap you take your head off
all of those things. The guys have to be skillful
enough to still catch the football. And I think the
reason why we're seeing so many of these crazy catches,
it's all revolving around the quarterback. And the more the
quarterback has passing camps as he's a younger guy, the

(03:42):
more the seven on seven camps that are happening, these
quarterbacks on throwing to themselves when the wilde receivers that
are out there. So these wide receivers are just getting
more reps, and so the the opportunities for the great
catches are just showing up a little bit more, do
you now, Look, we see great catches on Sundays and
we made reference too. I mean Pickens had one, you know,
a couple of weeks, you know, earlier in the season,

(04:03):
he had great one. From a Steller's perspective, these things happen.
I also wonder if social media plays a little bit
of a factor and this whole thing has something to
post everything trying to get those double tasks? Are you
kidding me? Like, Like, I remember my son's birthday last year.
He's about to be thirteen this year, and all he
wanted was a background so he can post. That's all
he wanted. My times have changed. I wanted money. I

(04:27):
wanted money, Uh you know, a belt of wrestling belt.
I say, you know something. He's just wanted the background
so he can take selfies. That's the generation we're in. So, yeah,
social media does account for because not only are these
young players, young football players and youth level seeing their
favorite player go on social media. But I mean, obviously
you want the likes you want. You want that gratification

(04:48):
for people looking at you. Should I should I be
worried about the future. No, I believe our futures in
good hands. But but there's a lot of selfies out there.
There's a lot of selfies that in downtown Richmond, Virginia,
we have a selfie museum. Okay, it's a real business
and it makes money. Yeah. People come, they get a
little bit different background, and they take selfies. That is

(05:10):
the culture we are. And yes, yes, Mike, yes I
always feel awkward doing it. Oh my god, I know
that was a thing. That's a thing. It's a selfie museum.
Shout out to the people down in which movie to
self the museum, Yes, Emrod bringing it as we made
reference to today is all about the evolution of the
wide receivers. Will sprinkle in a little more selfie conversation
at some point, maybe even on a different episode. We're

(05:32):
gonna break this down from every single angle, and I
know I just brought up the gloves and then being sticky.
There's also a reason, not just the one handed grabs,
but there's a reason why the position has evolved to
the point where you can make an argument it is
the most important position on the football field outside of
the quarterback. We're going to go through some of the numbers,
some of the data, but I think we should actually

(05:52):
start back in nineteen seventy four and I was negative.
That was negative about years. Like I was in the
negative in in seventy four. My parents weren't even mar
right at that point. Just to put some contact. Damn,
I'm feeling old. I'm feeling old. In response to what

(06:12):
was called the bumping run coverage, defenders could no longer
restrict wide receivers after three plus yards now. That was
actually increased to five yards in nineteen seventy eight, and
immediately you saw a spike and it makes sense right
in passing yards from one hundred and fifty nine per
game in seventy eight to a hundred and eighty the
following year. So it's by far the biggest spike in

(06:34):
the Super Bowl era. Now, starting in two thousand two,
I was very much alive. I was actually still in college.
At that point, quarterbacks were more protected, with helmet to
helmet hits becoming illegal, followed by a two thousand six
rule that bart hits from below the knees on quarterbacks.
And I think we can all agree on all of
that stuff. Man, Yeah, for sure is good. There's dudes
who you know, when when guys start going low, I'm like, oh, like,

(06:56):
I cringe a little bit when I see those moments.
It doesn't two thousand four, defensive holding and illegal contact
on wide receivers became a point of m the CISTS,
and in two thousand nine, any hit on a player
deemed a defenseless receiver was implemented, resulting in a fifteen
yard penalty. Also, we saw these hits take place on

(07:17):
the college side where guys get injected. Look, I'm all
for it because I do think it's important to keep
all these players safe. But in your mind, if you're
a dB, like, it's kind of hard to defend some
of these dudes with some of these roles. From impossible,
it is impossible. You'll see the top defensive backs Jalen Ramsey, um,
who else? Give me another top day? J C. Jackson
who just got paid? Yeah, all of these guys, they

(07:39):
will tell you they're the days of the shutdown cornerback
are gone. There's no longer those guys walking the planet
anymore because the rules don't allow it, the gameplay doesn't allow.
The ingenuity of the offenses don't allow. Yeah, we live
in a Western society, but the Western society is all
about the offensive, right, and you can see it show
up in our game. Passing plays, passing downs and and

(08:02):
throwing the ball through the air is exciting, right. I
think in the early days of football, when it was
more of a defensive struggle and running the football and
two yards and a cloud of dust and all of
those things, I think the people that ran our league
was thinking, how can we make this more marketable? How
can we get the fans a little bit more excited
about their respective teams? And I think that's why you
saw the explosion in the past game. That's why you

(08:24):
saw the rules kind of change a little bit. But
it does take a different type of guy to be
a defensive back in today's NFL. Yeah, you can be,
you know. I think I was with the Pete Carroll
way of thinking about defensive backs. Longer guys not necessarily
the fastest guys in the world, but they're so long
that they have that makeup speed by their limbs, right,

(08:44):
they can make up because of how long they are,
I e. Richard Sherman and things like that. But it
does take a unique individual, especially psychologically, and think about it.
All the rules, all the things that go against defenses.
You can't touch them, you can't hit them when they
do get the ball, you can't hit the pastor you
gotta let him and throw the football. Let him. I
mean camp Chancellor hit Vernon Davis one time, and I

(09:04):
think it was the NFC Championship. Oh man, it was awesome.
He hit him so hard and runners, my guy, I
love verning. He hit Vernon so hard Vernon pats almost
came off. I said, how are you gonna do so hard?
His pants almost came off that that's how hard he
hit him. And I remember Camp said, man, I went
to the ref and the ref just looked at me
and then through the flag and he said, why did
you throw the flag? And the ref set that just

(09:26):
looked too hard, that violent, he said. He didn't tell
me anything that was wrong with the hit. It just
looked too violent. So that is the environment our defensive
backs have to operate in. So they have to have
from a psychological stampout. They have to have a short memory,
and they gotta be wired differently, right. They can't. You know,
when I say short memory, just because you had to
catch on your two plays ago, you cannot let that

(09:48):
effect the next play because more times than not, you're
you're gonna get burned. Like in those moments you're the guy.
Ten times out of ten you can get somebody catching
the football on you. That's just the way it goes. Okay,
we see Jalen Ramsey, you know, arguably the best in
the game at the cornerback position. When the Tampa Bay
Buccaneers were trying to come back last year, Tom Brady

(10:09):
went after Jalen rams Earlier this season, he's been criticized.
So again, it's tough to play defensive back in the
National Football any truce to that old adage that their
their wide receivers you just can't catch. That is true.
If you're a wide receiver and you can catch, you
stay on the side. Serious business. Like my son. Always
give reference to my son. My youngest boy be five,

(10:31):
was going down. I know he listens. He listens every week,
so I know he's gonna enjoy thee I hear him.
He has his son was going and he listens to us.
So it's all way taking selfies, taking selfies while he's
doing it right with its stuff. You know. That's the
young people. Uh, and you know um in today's game.
But I tell my son all the time, everybody wants
to play wide receiver. Everybody the harder position to play

(10:54):
in the position you get a lot of benefits of
the doubt on is defensive back. Not a lot of
guys want to go there because guys get toasted. Yeah yeah,
not not necessarily the easiest thing, by the way, and
the position, the way guys are paid, wide receivers now
are cashing in in a big way. I know we've
talked about that a ton on NFL Network, especially in
the off season with a lot of those contracts. But

(11:14):
you know, we briefly mentioned before m rob quarterbacks, And
just to add some context on the passing game, I
want to go back to nine. That was the year
after the initial illegal contact role was instituted. Dan Fouts
led the league with two hundred and fifty five passing
yards per games. Well that's actually the point, right, So
you hear two fifty five and seventy nine? How about

(11:36):
this in two so far through week five? That would
land him eighteen, just ahead of Russell Wilson. And let's
be real here, Russ and shoulder. Yeah you could you
feel bad saying it, but I don't feel bad. One
other quick note here, by the way, Andy Dalton has
more career passing yards than all but nine of the

(11:59):
twenty nine Hall of Fame. Yeah, hey, research, is that
for real? You mean to tell me Andy Dalton, a
backup quarterback, already has more passing yards than twenty of
the twenty nine Hall of Fame quarterbacks. Yeah, you want
to hear some of the names, Yes, please, dude, Troy Aikman, Okay,
Steve Jim Kelly, are you kidding me? Andy Dawn's ahead

(12:25):
of those guys? Just just context, Matt, Like you said,
it and you said it, Well, it all is going
more towards the offense and the popularity of the sport.
People want to see some points being s four. Welcome
back to the NFL Explained podcast. Now, the first thing

(12:46):
to note actually is from nineteen seventy four to nine
eighties six, a wide receiver. This was shocking to me,
lad the NFL in receptions in only two seasons. I'm
gonna let that one sink in first second, Art Monk
in eighty four, Dwight Clark in eighty two. So from
nineteen eighty seven to twenty two, a wide receiver led

(13:08):
the NFL and receptions every season, but one. Tony Gonzalez
was that guy in two thousand four, and that was
just a ridiculous season. So let's take a closer look
at the one thousand yard receivers versus the rushers and
two thousand there were twenty three one thousand yard rushers
in eighteen thousand yard receivers. Fast forward to twenty six
wide house that actually reached that mark versus just seven

(13:30):
rushers that hit the one thousand yard milestone. By the way,
that was the same total. I almost feel like we
might not go back to the old school NFEL. I mean, hell,
you want to talk about defense and how people don't
want to see it. Remember that Thursday Night game a
couple weeks back, Colts and Broncos twelve nine, And by
the way, everyone's all bad game, bad game. I'm sitting
here going, do you know how many great plays the

(13:51):
defense made the game? And I'm sitting here going, all right,
it's different, but defense is still a part of the game.
I say that. And the wide receiver episode, I published
a table. I gotta sprinkle all of this in little
bit for everyone. So not only are wide receivers really prospering,
they're actually doing it at a younger age. So it

(14:12):
used to take guys a couple extra years to get
acclimated to the pro game. That transition is not always
easy for a lot of players. But twelve receivers under
twenty six when over a thousand yards, that's the most
in NFL history, Right, Jamar Chase broke the same record,
Justin Jefferson broke in for the most rookie receiving yards

(14:32):
in a season. How do you explain it? I know
there's the LSU connection with the realities, like there's other
dudes that are really putting up huge numbers. Yeah, that's crazy.
Early on when you talk about that generation of the
seventies and even before that, in the sixties, that was
a running backs time. Most teams played with multiple running
backs on the field. The fullback was a real position. Hell,

(14:54):
people don't realize Frank o' harris's position was fullback, right,
But he ran the football. He caught the football. Tom
Rathman in that West Coast system, that was a little
bit later, he caught the football a little bit more,
but it was a lot more running backs involved with
the game. And I think that as the business of football, right,
it starts in college the business of football. I can

(15:15):
argue that the business football starts in high school, um,
where coaches are having less patients from their superiors to
get the job done. And so coaches on the younger
levels from the national football they they have to recruit.
And when you recruit, you gotta promise young people certain
things that they're gonna have when they come to university
or your high school. And so I believe that a

(15:36):
lot of the enginuity of these coaches wanted to get
these players on the field earlier, so they devised plans
so that they can learn the game easier. For instance,
some offenses try to hurry up right or try to
hurry up, you know with the Chip Kelly offenses and
things like that. Well, instead of having the huddle up,
call a place or everybody knows what's going on, they

(15:56):
just stayed at the line of scrimmage, put some signs up.
Receivers look to the sideline. They are now knew their route.
It was a little bit more of efficient way to
get to play to everybody so that you can gain
an edge, so that you can gain an advantage, so
the head guy can keep his job. I believe all
changes came down to that. The fact that teams had
to put these guys on the feel a little bit earlier.

(16:17):
Coaches had to adjust, they had to be more efficient
and play calling hints. These guys are getting more reps.
These guys are getting more opportunities to catch the football. Okay,
I referenced some of the numbers from the seventies and
the eighties. I will say this body types have also
changed as well. We will get into that later here.
In terms of the wide receivers and and some of
the things that we are seeing measurables from the combine. Well,

(16:38):
from a technical standpoint, the wide receiver position is getting better.
But if you ask a lot of former players, and
I'm one of them, completely how the wide receiver fits
into the offense, we believe they're becoming a little bit
less relevant. And I say that by saying I believe
in ten years, wide receivers are gonna be looked at

(17:00):
as runners are looked at now, where you say we
can find running back at any time of the draft, right,
you have wide receivers. They're all running four twos and
four threes. They're all right, they all can catch. You
can find Stefend Diggs in the second or third round.
You can find a guy in the six or seventh round.
I just believe that we're seeing the golden years of
wild receivers now and at some point they're gonna be

(17:22):
looked at like running backs, like you can get one
at any time of the draft, because the running backs
used to be the golden position back in the day,
and now it has shifted. Well, we're gonna actually coming
up here and talk about some of those numbers. But
if that's the case, then what becomes the value position
is it defensive back, is it you know one of
those d tackles, someone who are an edge guy that
can get after the quarterback, can be disruptive. Does it

(17:44):
go that direction? I believe in a football team, your
offensive line right is the engine of your team. Your
secondary is the battery. Like if you're using a car reference,
you can't really win having a having real deficiencies in
both areas. So I believe the next wave of like
star athletes or whatever, well revolve around the line of scrimmage.

(18:07):
Your big time tackles, your big time pass rushers, the
big athletic guys. We saw trade by Walker goes over
one overall this year. And your defensive backs guys who
we just talked about the diversity and receivers. We just
talked about how it used to be a golden age
of running backs. Now you're gonna have to have a
defensive bat who has the quickness and the speed to
stay with guys like Tyreek Hill and the shifting needs
to stay with Jamar Chase and guys like that. But

(18:30):
you also have to have the pads and the aggressiveness
to tackle running backs because you're gonna be in the
on the field all the time. I just think the
defensive players are in it. We're literally seeing them changed
before our eyes. Okay, So I think coming up here,
and it's important to note here wide receiver sets and
how they're being used also impacts the significance of this

(18:54):
position a year ago. It can kind of actually explain
some of the draft stuff that we're seeing. U. I
shouldn't say year ago, because in two thousand and six,
teams lined up with three wideouts just fourteen point two
percent of the time. In one that's up almost ten percent,
actually exactly ten percent point two. So there is definitely
a higher priority right now in terms of finding some

(19:15):
of these guys in the NFL draft. They are they
bigger though, Are they stronger? Are they faster? Tell you what? Like? Yeah,
the answer shortly is yes. I'll take you through some
of those numbers. And I also tell you this, do
you need a big time watch receiver in order to
win a Super Bowl? When the answer actually may surprise
that's still to come on the NFL Explained Podcast. Welcome

(19:42):
back to the NFL Explained Podcast. You dropped general manager.
Those are the dudes who kind of handle business and
putting together these teams they have been going crazy looking
for wide receivers. How about this last year, six wideouts
went in the top eight team picks, and the last
three drafts have seen at least five taken them in
the first round. And there are some dudes that we

(20:03):
have seen really perform very well in their rookie season
sophomore campaigns, like they're making a big impact. It was
the first time in the Super Bowl era that there
have been at least five wide receivers taken in three
straight seasons in the first round their ballers. Now, between
twenty the average number of first round receivers was just
three point seven. So you think that the boom would

(20:24):
actually be you know, more physical traits for some of
these wide receivers that had improved. Let's take you through
some of the combine numbers since two thousand three. We'll
start with the forty. Nothing better than watching these dudes
around the four by the way three Q Wilham the
rookie corner. I would love to see him in a
foot race with Tyreek Hill. Oh my goodness, did you
see me? Hell end up scoring, but he tracked takes

(20:47):
them Hill down in five steps. He was there. Taysom
Hill had a five yard lead. I'm like what, I'm like,
that's why we focus on the fourting in the combine.
It is kid is fast. It was awesome, alright. So
getting back to the numbers here would sort fascinating is
from two thousand three to two thousand and five that

(21:08):
average was four point five five seconds fast forward. You're
actually talking to present day about a decrease of five
hundreds of a second, which is sort of kind of
like one of those but not really. When you talk
about professional athletes, and I mean the highest of the
height that the National Football League NFL players, Okay, that's

(21:28):
just the the advantage that you could possibly need to
get you and your team over the hump. So yeah,
that's big. That's a big. Height has actually increased exactly
one inch from seventy two point one inches to just
over six feet seventy three point one inches, which is
six one Weights have basically remained stable at two d

(21:48):
and two points seven pounds. Vertical leap also stayed mostly
the same at thirty five point five inches. There's a
lot of different ways though, to be successful and rob
you play with so many dudes who just did it differently.
At the wide receiver spot. Is there specific characteristic that
makes a wide receiver were successful in the NFL? Well,
I think the number one characteristic is to wide receivers

(22:11):
ability to just catch the football. That is the number one.
So it doesn't have to be a DV exactly, so
we can stay on the good guys side of the
football right, the offense right, and at the end of
the day, that's your number one job description your wide receiver.
When the ball is in the air, your job is
to be able to catch the football. And for me,
number two would be catch radius to be able to
protect the quarterback, meaning the quarterback can sit on his

(22:33):
back foot and understand. Yeah, I don't necessarily have to
be the most accurate on this past but I can
throw it and know that my guys gonna have enough
catch radius to be able to pull the ball in,
catch it with his hands, and also protect the ball
from an interception. Um the ability to separate at the
top of routes. Um a guy that we use on
our air raves. Mammanuel Sayties I thought was was awesome.

(22:53):
Matt Is Steve Smith Senior also awesome that separating and
really that's your ability to create space from the defender.
Defenders are real hands that they like to grab and whatever,
and they have these little tricks or how they get
to cheat and all those things. We can get in
that on a whole another episode. But the ability of
a wide receiver to make a defensive back think he's

(23:14):
doing something opposite then what he's really doing is something
that's very important. And I don't this isn't the biggest factor.
But I'll tell you one thing you can't teach this,
and that's just speed. That's I mean, just going out there,
the ability to pick them up, put him down, the
ability to throw the ball to it's how we kill
in the flat in his ability to make everybody miss,

(23:35):
run around the defense and go a d to me,
that scares defensive coordinators. Okay, so you can explain this
because I don't know the answer to it. But I've
been told from other NFL dudes that even if you're
not the fastest guy, you can make up the difference
in terms of how you run around. Absolutely. I learned
how to run routes when I was training in Arizona,

(23:56):
when I played in the National Football and that's where
I lived for the entire nine years. I was in
the league and a guy trained with was ant Kwan Bolden,
And I remember Q used always kind lead the group
when we would do I receive the drills, and I
would always wonder, like, damn, Q ain't running that fast.
It's like, cute, how fast are you? Bro? He'd be like, Man,

(24:16):
I mean I ran a four six. But I can
tell you now I have never ran full speed on
the football field. I said, what, You've never ran full speed?
He said, yeah, Bro, like our knees and stuff are
our tendons aren't built to like slow down this body
from going that fast. So why would you do that
so much on your body? You want to feel good, right,

(24:38):
But it doesn't feel good to get chase down. I'm
telling said, bro, it don't. It don't feel good like
getting chased down the tackle or looking slow on tape.
He said, Look, man, it's all about controlled movements, he said.
I run most of my routes at fifty. When I
get to the top of the break, I give it
sixty to separate. I might not get the full speed

(24:58):
unless I'm in the open space. I got the football
in my hands and I know I'm racing to the
end zone, and that that led me to think of something.
I started watching how the Great Ones ran their route
to play with a guy by the name of Isaac Bruce,
and he could always tell me, like Mike, it ain't
about wunning fast, man. You need to make him think
you're going deep by your arms pump and not necessarily
by your legs moving their fast. And so when I

(25:19):
noticed that, man, this isn't just a full speed thing
like I see on TV. You know, you think these
obviously was a running full speed, but they're not. To me.
What makes a great route runners the ability to control
their speed, get in and out of break smoothly, and
not take false steps. And I think you look at
a guy like Steve Smith, senior, guy that works with us,
works for me on Thursday night football, he probably is

(25:41):
one of the best in history of doing it. Yeah,
it's it's fascinating to me to hear the speed thing
because we do make a lot of forty and speed
is something that you can't teach and I'd rather have
it than not have it. But for the dudes who
maybe don't have it, like you know for three, actually
can still have a lot of success. I had asked
the question before about do you need a top end

(26:02):
wide receiver in order to win a championship. There's some
keynos there, and I think for recent football fans will
be like, yeah, man, like Cooper Cup. He's a dude, right,
a third round guy by the way, who's still sort
of shocked if you know his story, that he's been
able to make it the way that he has. But
we'll start with Cooper Cup. He became the first ever

(26:22):
to win a Super Bowl after leading the league and
receiving since Jerry Rice, the goat back in now since
two thousand thirteen, of the forty four teams, which is
about thirty percent that played in the Super Bowl, had
a wide receiver who was in the top five and
receiving yards in the NFL that season. Only four of
one rank Marvin Harrison, Greg Jennings who was a dude,

(26:44):
Victor Cruz thank you very much as a Giants fam
and of course Cooper Cup. Super Bowl fifty six between
the Rams and the Bengals was the first Super Bowl
where each team had a wide receiver who was top
five in receiving yards in the NFL that season. Since
Super Bowl forty six, the last first round draft pick
to win a Super Bowl. Nelson Agholor and Philip Dorse said,

(27:05):
neither of whom like the dude of dudes. Um, you
know it's still playing in the league, and you know
it's kind of you know, league exactly, not those dudes.
So check this out. Brown general manager at the time
was Ray Farmer. He actually downplayed the importance of having
a superstar wide receiver. He said, I would say, how
important are those guys? Name the last big time receiver

(27:29):
to win a Super Bowl? Name that last mega guy.
So keep him mind. Cooper Cup has done a he's
a mega dude. Farmer, by the way, two years after
he made those comments, not there, and he did draft
Johnny Football Johnny Manzell. Do you tell me man like,
does he have a point though? I mean, because the
numbers do sort of scream you might not need Cooper
Cup to go and win a chip. Yeah. I believe

(27:51):
he does have a point. I believe that you throw
to get into playoffs, but you played great defense and
run the ball to a championship. Now you can argue
about last year's Rams. You can argue about the Kansas
City Chiefs. I think in the nineteen season when they
won their Super Bowl because they did throw the football.
But I do believe that there were times in last
year's playoffs and in that Kansas City Super Bowl run

(28:12):
where they had to run the football and be physical.
And I think what makes Cooper Cup so different is, yeah,
he was on the Super Bowl winning team. Yes, he
he led the league, and he was the Triple Crown
runner from a receiver standpoint, But he also has the
baddest player regardless of position or side of the ball

(28:34):
on his team, and that's Aaron Donald. And if you
think about that Super Bowl, your lasting impressions and lasting
memories of the Super Bowl when the Rams won last
year is Aaron Donald making his plays, Aaron Donald making
the sack. And oftentimes you don't see uh big time
offense have a dominant defensive player like you saw in

(28:54):
and Donald. So I still believe defense wins championships. I
believe if it wasn't Faron Donald in that defense and
Von Miller, day wouldn't have won that championship. But Cooper Cup,
in particular, to me, what makes him so specialist. He
does the dirty work Yams to meet Cooper Cup is
he leaves blocks. Sometimes he is the backside cut off,
he's cutting off defensive ends. He never comes out of

(29:15):
the game. The guy has stamina like no other. He
runs fifty yards down the field, jogs all the way back, run.
I mean, he never comes off the field. And I
think that's what And he's with a creative play caller
and Sean McVeigh who understands how to focus on him
in the passing game and put speed around him so
he can get open. I think that's some of the
issues with the Rams offense this year. They're missing that speed.

(29:37):
But Cooper Cup is a little bit of a different
situation in other wide receivers. But I don't think you
need a big time number one guy to win the
Super Bowl. It just be nice to have him. It
would be nice. I mean, look at when I want
to Super Bowl in Seattle. Maybe people called our obviously
was Doug Balling, Jamaic curse. People act like they didn't
know who those guys were. Now, after the Super Bowl
those guys became pretty good names, but beforehand they weren't.

(29:59):
You know, it's fascinating because you can make the argument,
and you are making it that you might not need
the top flight wide receiver, but at the same time
I think about the dollars in this free agency pre
that have been disseminated to guys who play that position,
it's almost like the league is saying, no, no no, no,
like I need those dudes. Yeah, I think that the
league is saying. I think the younger coaches and general

(30:19):
managers who don't always have the historical approach or lens
when looking at these players. Again, when you look at
some of the top organizations, they understand when to go
get a hot out, They understand how to address the
offensive line, how to address the defensive line, how to
address the secondary. At the end of the day, I
just don't think you need one of those guys to

(30:40):
win a Super Bowl because again, you passed to get
into the playoffs. You run and play great defense to
a champions to get over the hump, and maybe it's
just get me there and then we'll figure it out.
Ask Joe Burrow in Cincinnati. All right, just want to
add to this conversation, just because we mentioned sort of
youth football, high school. On the college level, what we've
seen in terms of one thousand yard receivers in one

(31:03):
they were third. Were actually surprised me. I thought the
number would be higher one thousand yard receivers in Division
one football. In thirty nine there was thirty eight, so
kind of a marginal jump. But if you go back
to two thousand, it was twenty. So we have almost
seen double in about a twenty year period in terms
of one thousand yard receivers. Seventy five catch guys. By

(31:26):
the way, in two thousand they were seven, they were
thirty five. I think that also speaks to the scheme
that you were discussing as well. And I think to
take it a step further in youth football, you told
me about a selfie museum. I know about these one
handed grabs. Like in my mind as we're putting it
together here, it becomes almost like the sexy position in football.
Dare I say, like right up there with the quarterback. Yeah.

(31:49):
And again I think social media has a lot to
do with as I think we just started to show
with the Odell Beckham catch, uh, you know, the media
and the entire world kind of blowing that catch up
has helped as well. And again it's a very skillful catch.
But I believe that especially in all if our listeners
can just go to the you know, the urban area
in the in the places that they live and just
go to a park and just watch young kids play football.

(32:12):
You're gonna see these catches. You're gonna see the most
dynamic player in the field, usually as the quarterback. To me,
that's where the spread system and the running quarterbacks that
it came from. It came from your football coaches just
sitting there saying, you know what, I don't really know
how to coach this particular schame, but I do know
one thing. This kid is the best kid out there.
I want to find a way to put the ball

(32:32):
in his hands over and over and over. And to me,
that style of calling plays, that style of coaching has
made it to the National Football League. You know that
there are generalizations that we hear about position groups in
the NFL. Um diva's is it a fair label to
put on wide receivers? I was. I would say that,
and and diva doesn't necessarily mean negative, man Like we

(32:53):
have a negative connotation on the word DVA necessarily mean negative,
I mean little whiny. Sometimes I wouldn't want to be
called I wouldn't want to be called it DVA either.
But let's just think about it. The success of a
wide receiver exclusively depends is on the protection of his quarterback,
the abilities of his all everything about his position depends
on somebody else. So you kind of gotta be a diva,
right You kind of gotta make sure that you're able

(33:15):
to create the reality you want. You're able to to
get the conditions the way that you wanted so that
you can go be the best version of yourself out
on the football field. So, yeah, they're a little bit
of a deep. Are they the most athletic guys on
football field? No? Who don't believe that are the most
I don't believe I received that the most athletic guys
on on the football field. Um, I believe honestly. Defensive

(33:36):
lineman on whoa to be that big, to be that athletic,
to run that fast? You're going to be three hundred
fifty pound man. Oftentimes they outweigh you by twenty and
thirty pounds. You gotta figure out a way to get
around them. You can't land on the quarterback. You gotta
make understand your strike zone. I mean so many, I
mean to me, Chris Jones, Aaron Donald, Jeffrey Simmons from

(33:56):
the Tennessee Titans. What these guys some of these guys
can dunk. Yeah, come on, man to me that the
level of athleticism is crazy. I've heard the smartest guys
that on the football fielder, offensive lineman. I could go
to the center, I would say, it might have been
a center. Who told me that it might have been
It had to be a center, I would say, the
smartest guy quarterbacks. Obviously you have to be there as well,

(34:17):
but they don't fullbacks. Just just just sprinkling a little
for the for the fullbacks as well. All right, I
know I made reference to it a little bit earlier.
I am in having a blast. I hope you have
as well. I'm Rob doing this show. We love getting
those questions continue to slide into my my TM at
Mike Underscore. Yeah, you can follow um Rob at Real

(34:40):
Mike Rob. I don't know. Maybe maybe if you ask
them a football question, maybe I'll get back. I have
no idea, but once you can always appreciate you guys
checking us out. Tell a friend about this episode, and
of course fire off those questions. It's the evolution of
the wide receiver spot explained