February 28, 2023 • 38 mins
The 2022 season is just behind us and the offseason action begins in full force with The NFL Combine as future NFL players come to show what they can do in front of decision makers before Draft. Mike Yam and Michael Robinson take you through the event and M Rob shares some experiences from the event on this episode of the NFL explained podcast.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership
with iHeartRadio. I feel like it's been a minute since
we've been in the studio. Three weeks. Basically, that's a
long time. What's a long time in life, I've been
in the studio with you. We got a brand new
(00:26):
edition of NFL Explained. I don't typically start with apologies.
In fact, I'm one of those dudes. I'm gonna I'm
going to apologize because throughout the course of season two
of NFL explained, how many times if I usually get
a kick out of it. I love doing it so much,
I say, hey, send me the dms. Don't go into
m Rob's dms. We're gonna get your questions. It has
(00:47):
been so crazy in terms of East West Shrine Bowl,
which I had. You got Pro Bowl, you got Super Bowl,
you got get ready for the Combine, which, by the way,
our episode today is about the Combine. You got all
these things going on. I looked, this is when you
know it's bad. I looked at the dms the other day. Okay,
there was a ton of dms. This is God's honest
(01:08):
ton of dms with questions praising you, by the way,
nothing about me shows great and Rob's awesome, and I'm like,
you're sending me the DM, which is part of it.
But I will say this, I promise, because I always
make it a point to say I get in touch
with everyone. I promise at some point I'll get back
to you. We're going to continue to roll on the
NFL Screen podcast. I'm trying that. By the way. Also, congrats.
(01:33):
How about Kansas City. Yeah, man Chiefs the chiefs Man,
big time game. That was a great place man, awesome game.
And yes, the Patrick Mahomes followed my Buffalo Bills fans
and my Josh Allen. Butsuka comments, Patrick Mahomes is the
best play and he got me. Oh my goodness, that
was so awesome. But Hurts, he's up there. He is
(01:55):
definitely good. There's a reason why he finished second in
the MVP voting. By the way, since we're talking about
Mahomes and Jalen Hurts, we did do an episode pretty
recently on quarterbacks. The Goat's Mahomes's name did pop into
this conversation, so highly encourage you to go back and
take a listen to that one. All Right, I already
sort of stole the thunder. I said, today's episode is
about the Combine, and if you read the comments, you
(02:16):
probably already knew that this episode was about the Combine.
Your experience. I always say this about the NFL Combine.
It is essentially a an underwear modeling competition, is how
I describe it. Is that a fair assessment. It's very fair.
And I'm going to be completely honest with you right now.
My wife is going to get upset with me because
(02:37):
we have gotten into arguments about this. We don't have arguments.
We heated fellowship and it started I think about three
years ago. My wife was like plastered in front of
the TV. I didn't know what was going on, and
she was like, Babe, this new show you guys have
on NFL Network Combine or whatever. This thing is, Oh
(03:00):
my goodness, And she did this little dance like this,
and I'm like, oh, I got upset a little bit,
you know what I mean. I had to check myself,
my manhood a little bit because I knew where she
was getting at some of the top genetic physical specimens
in the college game, getting ready for the biggest interview
of their lives and going to the National Football League.
But yeah, had to throw it out there. My wife's
(03:21):
gonna get a quick little laugh at that, and she'll
probably remind me of that when I get back home
after she listens to this episode. So here's the true
in the India, right like you, you made a living
playing professional football as an athlete, you're still in great shape. Here,
I don't have that starting point. We were out the
other day and we were watching the NBA All Star
Break DK Metcalf coming down and I was like, crazy, yo,
(03:42):
he is as like much of a freak zoids maybe
there's ever been on the planet. I get the who
is that? Oh, let me see? Go to Google images
and it's all like and I'm like, what are we
doing here? I set the dinner table. This is man,
but I opened up the door for it. Your your
combine experience didn't sound too positive. It wasn't Yeah, it
(04:02):
wasn't that great of an experience. And it had nothing
really to do with the talent evaluators or the teams.
To me, it was myself. It was the fact that
I was listening to my agent at the time and
I didn't work out. I didn't throw at the combat,
I didn't run at the combine. I did everything at
my pro day. Just looking back again, hindsight is always
twenty twenty looking back, when you see guys like Vince Young,
(04:24):
Matt Line of guys like that that worked out and threw,
you wish you would have been on the same field
with those guys thrown at the same time. This is
not uncommon, though, So why do you have those regrets
because I've covered you know, this year, we obviously at
our combat coverage on NFL Network, We're going to be
airing it all the dudes running their forties, the position groups,
the whole thing. I've also covered a ton of pro
days over the years. It is not foreign for a
(04:47):
guy to not run this forty at the combine and
then run on his own college campus. So why so
much of a regret for you? Well, the regret was, okay,
we always we gotta put ourselves back what fifteen twenty
years because the National Football League, just to me, in
my opinion, wasn't ready for a Jalen Hurtzel, Lamar Jackson
or Michael Robinson at the time. The scheme hadn't elevated
(05:07):
to that yet, and so I was forced to kind
of change my position and look at other positions, and
so I decided not to throw, and again we had
other quarterbacks throwing. And people have to understand when you're
at the combine, it's not just the physical things that
you're doing. I mean, this is a one of the
biggest interviews of that these kids will ever go through,
and it's really to see these guys and see how
(05:30):
they respond and how they react amongst their contemporaries right
at the common I remember being there in two thousand
and six, finally seeing all the guys I saw on ESPN,
all the college you know, Vinch Youngs, the Matt Liners,
the Reggie Bushes, all the guys that you you know,
you become fans of right and you get to see
him and be around him and operate around him, and
just being in those rooms and being in those conversations.
(05:51):
I just look back and wish, man, if I could
have been, you know, throwing my footballs so that teams
are looking at it in comparison to Vinch Young or
in comparison to any of the other quarterbacks at the time,
maybe I would have got a shot playing quarterback in person.
Because it's not it's not just film. It's literally bang
bang bang, like quarterback Goos Quarterbackos. Yeah, it's right there,
(06:11):
you know. And the talent evaluators they're all in the
stands all around you, some of them all up on
the field. And I remember because I did stay for
a little bit part of the field workouts in the
in the runs, they still call your name. I knew
I wasn't gonna run. I told everybody I wasn't gonna run.
Michael Robinson, quarterback, number whatever, whatever. And you have to
visually say no, And that does something to you because
(06:34):
you gotta step up and say no. In the talent
evataways are looking to send up. But I thought you
would a beast of the East, Mike rob I thought
you was the big ten player of the years. This
is this how y'all get down? And yeah I was.
I was a little pissed off about that, but I
had already had it. I had already made the decision
and had a plan not to run, not to work out,
and I didn't want to jump out as that. Keep
in mind, there's gonna be three hundred and nineteen total
(06:56):
prospects to combine this year. There are only eleven players
from non FBS schools. As far as the big name schools.
So you can imagine Alabama, Georgia they're sending the most
team and twelve players respectively, Florida, Michigan, LSU, TCU. Here
we Gons they're sending nine em Is it about the tape?
Is it more about what they do at the combine?
(07:18):
Some of the guys might not even be working out,
Like how do you separate yourself if you're in this
year's class. Well, obviously game tape is gonna be everything, Right,
what did you do when the lights were on? You know,
you had to play a game, your university, your team,
everybody's rooting for you, everybody's depending on you to do
your job. How did you respond and how did you
(07:40):
play in those situations? I think that's vitally important, and
that's the most important when you go to the combine
to I think talent evaluators are just saying, Okay, let
me confirm what I saw on tape. Let me I
saw this on tape. I saw this kid had great
movement ability, or I saw that he had great football IQ. Okay,
let me see in these standard drills, because these are
all standard type drills, just a baseline, so that talent
(08:03):
and valuators can have a baseline, a value you wait
everybody off of. I think they're just coming to the
combine to confirm and obviously get to know the prospects.
And people don't realize, especially I work with some of
these guys coming up at the end of the day.
You can make a lot of hay off the field
with these talented value with us. How you speak, how
professionally you are with them, looking guys in their eyes,
(08:25):
and being truthful, being truthful. I remember I had gotten
to a fight in high school or whatever. I had
no idea they we're gonna bring it up. But I
remember Bill Parcels at the time brought it up. Hey man,
you were in this little you know, scadattle when you
were in high school. And I'm like what. And this
was just after he asked me what my favorite offensive
play was and I told him I liked the curls
(08:46):
on the outside of the streets going down whatever. And
it just I don't know what kind of threw me
for a loop. But don't lie. They know pretty much everything. Okay,
So what about the difference between how a guy executes
at the combine where it's a little bit of I
don't want to say an unsettled environment, but it's new
for these guys. When you're on your home campus for
(09:06):
your pro days, it's I mean, it's comfort. You wake
up in your bed, you're doing all the things that
you're used to. You know, you're saying a lot of
the cafeteria person that you usually have pregame meals. You're
probably working with the wide receivers. It's your dudes that
are out there. Like I would imagine, it is a
much more beneficial experience to do well at the pro
day compared to the combine. It is because, I mean,
(09:28):
that's your natural environment. You controlled all the controllables and
all of those things. But when you're in Indy, when
again that environment, they're not a talent Evaluators aren't expecting
these athletes to be perfect. Sure, they just want to
see you compete. They just want to see you step
up to the challenge and go out there and go play.
When you go to pro days, now it's on your terms, right,
(09:50):
you can go out there and do the things and
set up things just the way you want to. I remember,
if you remember just a few years ago to Johnny
Menzel Pro Day, how everybody was hooping and hollering about
all he had the music, he had to show it,
so on he had to pass. He controlled the control
bibles and elevated himself and he was taken in the
first round. So the pro day is important, But I
(10:12):
would say that, especially for people in my situation, that
wasn't a surefire top ten type of a pick. You
got to go to the combine and make some noise. Okay.
I was in Vegas a couple of weeks back for
the East West Shrine Bowl, talk to a bunch of
different scouts and this is it was something that I
had already known, but it was reiterated again a couple
(10:33):
of weeks back. And that's this idea of getting to
know the player. I mentioned some of the questions that
are going to be asked. What I think is fascinating
is these guys go to Indie. You decide to go out, Well,
guess what, like you, M Rob like I might work
for the Giants, right, like you might kind of know
who I am. Maybe you don't. But then m Rob
deceives me and goes, hey, that dude might work for
the Giants. I shouldn't be here. I go to the
(10:54):
next place. Well, guess what my boy who works for
I wouldn't say the Jets, but let's just call he's
at that other spot. I get the text message, you'll
m Rob's over here, maybe doing some stuff. I am
fascinated by the personality aspect of also understanding now there
was a high draft pick top ten guy from last year.
I heard the same story twice now from two different people. Hey,
(11:17):
this dude was in Indie getting after it at one place.
We told him like, might not be the best. Look,
went to another spot. Their boys sent to text passions
said hey, I saw this guy maybe getting it after
a little bit too hard. I tell young people all
the time that's going through this process because you know,
a lot of former athletes work with guys. You know,
whether our agent brings you in to talk to the
(11:38):
group or whatever. And I just tell guys, look, man,
this has been one of the longest interview processes of
your life. Don't mess it up. You know almost at
the bag, man, don't mess it up. Like, why would
you go to Indie and go out that Yams? That
wasn't even in my thought process, Like I wasn't even
(12:00):
thinking about going out like that. Wasn't even a thing
that was even possible. Let me tell you, I was
upset because they told me I had a drug test
at five in the morning one day, and I got
up at four thirty in the morning unconsciously and use
the bathroom, And so I had to drink so much
water or whatever in the morning to go take the
(12:23):
drug test right before I had to do my official
way in, so my weight was inflated and it just
totally pissed me off and messed up my day. But
at the end of the day, But the point I'm
trying to make you go there for a reason. You're
going there for a business trip. You don't go there
to go out. I can't believe that guys are doing that.
Just anyone who's listening to this podcast, I just want
(12:45):
you to just take a moment and listen to what
m Rob just said. Using the bathroom at four thirty
in the morning messed up something in terms of how
you were evaluate. Yeah, I believe so, because again I
wanted to be a certain way. Yeah, I had lost
a certain amount of weight I had, you know, I
was a certain shape and frame and broad drunks much
(13:06):
water before I had to win because I had to.
They would not allow you to go through with the
rest of your schedule until that drug tests happened. So literally,
I'm sitting up in there. There's a couple of other
guys I can't remember the name after. I'm just sitting
up in there, like, dude, you woke up and yeah, man,
I forgot all of us we got I mean, it's
just something that happened. And then the schedule. Then you
end up going being late behind everybody to explain to everyone.
(13:29):
I pad at four thirty, Yeah I messed up. And
they're sitting and and and in my head, I'm thinking,
because it's all interview for me, I'm thinking, are they
gonna think that I'm that dumb too? Oh? Like, come on,
you know what, I'm all the layers around it. It's
all the layers. That's why I said, like, it's kind
of fascinating you hear about this small, little innocuous moment
that you don't even think about, and then how it
(13:49):
kind of dramatically alters things moving forward. All right, Welcome
back to the NFL Explained podcasts. Mike Yam and Rob
with you and Rob mentioned some of these questions we've
heard the crazy ones that are out there. Brandon Vinnie
had sent you know some of the list care I
(14:10):
almost don't. I hadn't heard this one. I'm gonna go
with it anyway, just because I wasn't aware of this one.
How many ways could you use a paper clip? That
allegedly was an actual question where you asked that that
was a real question. That's what did you use a
paper clip? Maybe that must be one of those am
I t I Q questions? Right? Trying to normal function
to like keep papers together? Yeah, unpick a lock, not
(14:32):
that I don't know. I've seen it in movies. Trying
to answer this question right now? And then um, I
don't know, like borderline dart, I don't know what else
I am questions? Yeah, I mean it was something that
was conscious with me when I was getting some of
these questions about my grandparents and you know, uh, you
know what male is around in the house and things
(14:54):
like that. So that's something that really stood out to me.
But I mean the big question that I kept on
getting was bro Number one, are you married to the
quarterback position? Because we I saw that you led the
team and receiving, we saw that you was behind Larry
Johnson and rushing to football. One year, we saw that
you would back up throwing. I mean, what position do
(15:14):
you really want to play? That was a big one
in number two. How did you answer that? I answered it.
My goal was to be in the National Football League,
not be a quarterback in the National Football League, but
I would I owe it to myself to give myself
every opportunity to be a quarterback in this league. So
all I ask, if you draft me, watch me take snaps,
(15:35):
watch me throw the football, and if you deem I
need to go to another position, cool, I'll do it.
That's such a reasonable response. Did you work on that
with your agent? I mean, I imagine like there's preparation,
Like you know you're gonna be ask certain questions. When
I had my interview at NFL Network, I had an
idea of a few things that we're going to be asked.
You you kind of have some thoughts in your head.
(15:56):
You knew that question was coming. I knew the question
was coming, but something a little deeper. You gotta be
real with yourself. And oftentimes I see young people they
just real with themselves, like they everybody thinks they're the
best and always the best in this that in the
third I looked at my situation and I looked, I said,
how many quarterbacks that look like me to play the
(16:17):
game that I play is in the National Football League
having success? Right now? What minute? I mean? You had
Michael Vick, You has some guy And so when you
look at it from that situation, you just had to
be real with yourself. And I just thought I owed
it to myself five years of chasing this quarterback dream
in college, that you just give me an opportunity to
take a snap after that, if you don't like what
you see, I'll do what I need to do to
make a living. Okay, So in the long run, that's
(16:38):
probably the right approach, right because you're staying true to
yourself and the team that's considering bringing you onto their
roster knows what they're getting. Yeah, I'll flip it and say,
maybe you're a little too forthcoming, maybe you're a little
too honest. You know, I've talked to enough players where
you go, is that how you really feel? Or is
that what you were trained to say? And that response
(17:02):
right like, don't give them too much straddle defense a
little bit. I don't know what general managers and team
personnel are thinking like, is that a good thing? Is
it a bad thing? If you're the face of my franchise,
are you a little bit of a loose cannon where
you're gonna be saying stuff that I don't want you
to say, And maybe being borning is good. I used
to cover baseball back in the day. You go into
the Yankees locker room, Derek Jeter was the worst postgame
(17:24):
interview because Derek Jeter wasn't going to say a damn
thing and go get you mine, not going to give
you anything. One. I used to cover my team, the Mets.
You go in there, PA would be friendly with you
that you got the kids, you know, running around and
the music going different vibe. But I don't know what's
better like, And I don't know how general managers and
coaches would sit there and go, hey do I want
this on my squad? Well, I think you know the situation.
(17:46):
Obviously it has to give context everything, and I think
just look at my specific situation. I think teams appreciated
the honesty, appreciated that I was able to see myself
for truly who I am. Sure you know what I mean.
And oftentimes we get kids who and people in their
lives who just keep both of them up, keep pushing
them up, keep pushing up. Which is all good. Is
(18:08):
okay to have praise and things like that, but at
some point you gotta be honest with yourself. And again,
like I started by answering this question, By this, my
goal was to play in the National Football League, not
being an NFL quarterback. And at the end of the day,
those two principles stuck in my head and I wanted
to make and guarantee the bag, not necessarily the bag
at quarterback. Okay, So then there's the actual drills right right,
(18:31):
Like the forty is the one that stands out. I mean, hell,
I've done shows this year. I'm still referencing dudes forty
times because when it's spectacular and then you see it
in real time on the field. How many times have
you and I have talked about this on Total Access?
Tarik Wolan goes out there and you're like, yo, he
was fast at the combine, and damn that dude might
be faster on the football field. Like it's crazy the
context around some of this stuff. I don't know. You
(18:52):
tell me the drills like forty to me. Sometimes feels
completely irrelevant depending on the position. Sometimes it's totally relevant
in the situation that I just made reference to Tyreek Wolan.
I think it's relevant in almost every position, honestly, and
know people may be sampled, Mike rob I mean, if
an offensive lineman has to sprint forty yards like that,
your team's probably gonna lose, you know what I'm saying, Like,
(19:13):
if you got to do it that much work. But
when you look at the forty with the big guys,
you're really were looking at the first ten yards, You're
really looking at the get off, You're really looking at
different aspects of the forty. And people have to understand
we have to have some type of uniform way to
basically test guys for just basic athleticism. And I think
that's what the forty does. That's what the change of
(19:33):
direction drills do. And then when you get into the fieldwork,
obviously it goes more into your position specific types of areas.
But uh yeah, I think the command does a good job.
But if at least showcasing the athleticism of the genetics
we have in our league. Okay, so basic athleticism depending
on positioning group, I'm gonna throw a group of your way.
You just tell me what the drill matters the most.
Quarterback seems obvious to me. But it was obvious too,
(19:56):
I would say throwing right, job, I was nervous, shut
shuttle subtly, So are you kidding me? Let's go no
throwing and obviously accuracy ball placement, um, how fluid the
ball comes out of your hands. But I will say this,
(20:18):
what guys like Lamar Jackson, what guys like Jalen Hurts um.
Some people can put justin fields in this category. I
think the forty and the movement skills are gonna start
to become more and more important for evaluating that position,
because again, the more that position runs, the more of
this game becomes eleven on eleven. All right, I love
the forty. Can I have a little confession here? What's
(20:40):
my favorite thing to watch when I go to any
of the pro days? Or the words? Really? Yeah, I
don't know why because you know when I was a kid,
and was I the only kid who did this? But
you'd walk through a doorway and like you just try
to hit the top of the doorway. But I don't
call my wife all the time. Yes, like the problem
is like a three sixty. So, like you know, I
(21:01):
used to go when I lived on the East Coast
and I was closer to family, you know, the Fisher Price.
I was a Fisher Price all Star man with my
little cousins dunking on the Now one of them is
like my height. I'm like son of a man once
you get good. It's happen genetics, not on our side
of the family, his dad's side anyway. Besides the point,
but the vert's always cool to me because it just
reminds me of my childhood. And I do think that
(21:21):
there's some of the fact that I really can't jump
all that high and the knees aren't there anymore. But
wide receiver, tight end, Like, I don't know how important
the vertical is for some of those guys. Maybe it is,
But are there some other drills that if you were evaluating,
you'd say, hey, I need my wide receiver or tight
end to be really good in this drill. The vert
and the broad to me, that correlates to the explosiveness
(21:43):
that you'll see maybe in the start of their forties
or maybe really yeah, maybe because just think about it,
you're not running, you're just seeing how far you can
jump from a stand still, and it just shows explosiveness.
And this is not the exact science, but I feel
like if you look back on some of the biggest,
you know, broad jumps and verts, they're gonna have some
(22:03):
of your fastest times. I mean to me that that
that's just if you're super explosive off a single leg
or both legs, it's gonna make you move faster. Old line,
old line. What I got for the old line ten
yards splitting the forty very important, very very important. I
will go again to the broad jump and obviously the
old line change of direction drills, and again I go
(22:26):
to broad jump, and this is just for me. I
go to those drills because it shows the bend in
the hips. It shows the explosiveness from the biggest muscle
in there in these kids bodies, the hips, and it
oftentimes shows how powerful they can be at moving people
off the ball, because again, if they can sink and
get in their hips and be explosive from their hips,
they can move people. Is it the same exact thing
(22:47):
just on the flip side for the D line pretty much?
I mean that's a big but two sumo wrestlers going
back and forth, just pushing weight back and forth. But
for the d line, and I do like to see
them kind of run the whole forty and just see
what their delta time the last twenty yards would be,
and just see how they finish. It really is spectacular
when some of those dudes can Also You're like, how
does it dude that big run that fact? It's amazing.
(23:11):
It is really amazing, yams to see six six, six seven,
two ninety pounds run four to five and people don't realize,
like a Kuombolt and one of the greatest receivers our
league has ever seen, ran a four six four six
is not slough, you know what I'm saying. It's actually fast.
But we get so enamored with these fast times and
things like that we don't necessarily realize it. dB. Similar
(23:33):
to what you would say for the wide receivers. Yeah,
obviously for defensive backs being able to track the football
while it's in the air. Like you look at dbs
and wide receivers right, like they're the same, dude, one
can catch one camp. Yeah, that's how we look at
them and see the differentiation. And oftentimes the great defensive
backs are the guys that can catch I e. Richard Sherman,
(23:53):
former wide receivers. So they have a great They do
a great job at tracking the football, and you won't
see them flip their hips and getting it out of breaks.
To see how fluid they are in the hips. It's
gonna let you know how fast they can break on
out driving routes. Twenty years ago, if I asked you
about linebackers, would your answer be the same as it
is today. No, man, I think the lineback I think
we're seeing a transformation of the linebacker position. It happened
(24:17):
right before eyes. Obviously, you have the outside guys who
are basically pass rushers, right they rushed the passer, you know.
Sometimes Von Miller's an outside linebacker in his defense. And
then you got the stand up inside type of linebackers
like the Roquan Smiths and guys like that. I do
think it takes different skill sets for those guys. Now. Again,
(24:37):
twenty years ago, they were more thumpers, more bangers, and
I think now you have to see movement ability from
those guys. What about the dudes out of the backfield
running backs? Oh my gosh, right, my guys. Right, I
think the forty is important for running backs. I want
to see whether this guy's gonna make defensive coordinator stay
up all night. And what I mean by this, there's
a lot of running backs who can put the ball
(24:58):
in the right place and get the number of yards
the play was designed to be blocked for sure, right
you know, seventy power going to the left, pulling the
guard that plays usually going to get you between I
don't know, four to six yards, you know what I mean.
If your back has got something with him, he can
get ten to twelve. If he's really special, he'll get through.
If you got a running back that's in that four
four four three range, and when he gets to the
(25:20):
second level he can pull away from defensive backs. That's
what scares defensive coordinators. And so yeah, look at the
forty drill obviously the running back change of direction, types
of drills, and can he catch out of the backfield.
If he can catch out of the backfield, I don't
have to sub him on third down. I was working
with Lt. Ladamian Thominson the other day and someone asked
(25:40):
him this question in one of our meetings, and I'm
curious how you would respond to this. How do you
measure a running back and pass pro. Is there a drill?
Is there something that's specific at the combine because it's
such a huge part and we always talk about the
physical attributes of these guys and what you just characterize
running down field. Is there a burse where there's real separation,
because that's going to create a nightmare for a defensive
(26:00):
coordinator and for the dudeis try to track him down.
But passpor is such an important part of the game,
and these guys are asked to do it, it almost
feels like you're not doing anything at the comboy to
measure that you can't. Yeah, that's what you can't. You
cannot do a drill to measure whether a guy can
be great at pass pro. And I think that's why
you see some of the elite backs you'll come into
(26:21):
our league struggle with pass pro at first, because oftentimes
in college they're never asked, they not asked to do
a lot of it. And be honest, witche jams. In
the National Football League, the only time you go live passpro.
You may get it, you know, two or three times
during training camp, sure, and then you're in the game,
and that's really the only time that you can do it.
(26:42):
But uh yeah, that's tough man. One of my favorite
words for the draft is twitchy. Like if you played
the game at home, anytime you heard the word twitchy,
it'd be a whole lot of fun. It is a
little bit of a cliche. But coming up next, we'll
talk about some of the specific traits for players and
why some of those twitchy type words are actually important.
(27:03):
That's coming up next on NFL Explained. Back here on
the NFL's Playing Podcast, Mike Am and my Super Bowl
champ Michael Robinson, we continue to discuss the combine. Quarterback
height seems to be a little bit of question mark
(27:25):
and in this year's draft, and we're gonna see him
at the combine and Bryce Young from Alabama in the
top three at his position. He's six feet tall. It
just maybe a little on the shorter end. I see
you kind of like, that's a little on the shorter end.
But but Yams and I don't know, I'm following the comment, bro,
But to me, it's not the height with Bryce Young,
(27:46):
it's about the heart. That's That's what I've been telling
people for years. Well, honestly, it's it's the one hundred
and ninety four taking a beating. That's what scares me.
It's not necessarily height. We've seen Russell Wilson five eleven
six feet in that six foot range still be able
to operate in an Ask footballleague. Colin Murray, again, he's
a shorter guy, but these guys are thicker lower body.
(28:08):
These guys are a little bit more compact, and they
can kind of handle the riggers. Look, when you're a
shorter guy, oftentimes in your protection, you gotta find the
throwing lane. For instance, when you look at that Super
Bowl Super Bow forty nine, Malcolm Butler intercepted that pass
from Russell Wilson. Sure, if you look at the pass
that was the passing lane, Russell really couldn't see or
(28:32):
he wouldn't be able to throw over anybody that was
the passing lane. That protection was designed so that the
lane was where the slant was. And so that's what
you have to do with the shorter guys. In that
same game, you saw Tom Brady throw over somebody to
hit Julian Edelman for a touchdown. When you have height,
you can throw over guys and it allows you to
play quarterback a little bit better. Okay, so flip at
them what's the advantage if you're a shorter guy, because look,
(28:54):
the reality is we don't not every dude to six
to five and you know flamethrower out there. Well, the
advantages you get lost man defensive guys, these big six
six six five defensive guys trying to get after guys
like a Russell Wilson, Coller Murray and guys like that too.
A little bit shorter, they're actually able to get out
of trouble a little bit better. But yes, oftentimes when
(29:15):
they get a little bit of pressure, they have to
retreat and move so that they can see. That's what
that's what happens if we have a smaller quarterback. But
again it's the one hundred ninety four pounds because I
don't mean to say this because he went to Alabama
as well, but I look at two what six foot
two hundred and seventeen pounds. I don't think he's two
hundred seventeen pounds. I stood next to him when he
when they played in that Buffalo game. I didn't think
(29:35):
he was that big. And again, his issue has been
protecting himself from hitting the ground, something that I think
they're gonna have to look at Okay, I want to
throw another measurable your way at the quarterback spot. It
was a huge conversation a season ago. You know exactly
where I'm going with this, Kenny Pickett, we heard about
hand side got little hands. Broka. I'm just saying, dog,
(29:55):
all right, I'm gonna throw this your way. How about this,
statistically speaking, Russell Wilson notoriously large hands? Right? Okay, you
would know you were teammates with him. I don't rush
shook his hands. Russell can dap you b and his
middle finger hits your elbow. Okay, So what you're saying
is not small hands for Russo. But how about this now?
Alex Smith? Also, Um, this was a conversation around Alex
(30:18):
Smith back in the day when he was drafted by
the Niners. Wilson, who's got the large chance that you
made reference to in a large you know, middle finger
that would my elbow? Okay? A career fumble rate that's
higher than Smith's. Are we getting off the rails here?
Yes we are. He's taken a few or more sacks.
But are we making too much of a bigger deal
when it comes to a hand size for a quarterback? Um?
(30:40):
I'm gonna say yes and no. Yes, we are making
a little bit of a bigger deal because it's not
like every quarterback had the biggest hands in the world.
You know, there's been successful quarterbacks that has smaller hands.
Michael Vick has smaller hands. That's one of the knocks
on me. They keble saying, man, your hands are like
Michael Vings Man, you got runner hands. I'm like, whatever
the hell that means? Um when you when you look
(31:01):
at these quarterbacks with the with the bigger with the
bigger hands, that's when you get the weird at arm
angles and the Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen crazy throws,
and you know, you see the Russell Wilson looked like
he's at short stop throwing the football. Sometimes, to me,
when a guy has larger hands, whether doesn't affect him,
height doesn't affect him as much getting the ball out
and slinging the football, and having Aaron Rodgers another one,
(31:25):
having being able to get the ball out of weird
arm angles. They that just doesn't affect these guys. Okay,
So lengths to me in certain spots makes all the
difference in the world than it becomes obvious. I was
talking to a coach a couple weeks ago, college coach
who was telling me about one of his guys who
will see it the combine and his length and how
important it was, and I watched him in up practices
in Vegas. I'm like, damn, that coach wasn't lying like this.
(31:47):
This dude is freaking long. From a lineman standpoint, offensive line,
I always talk about the reach of these guys. How
important is that reach because in some instance we're talking
about like an inch half an inch, Like, is it
that meaningful? It's huge? No kidding, yeah, I mean think
about it. If you a guy out six six sixty
seven and you put your arms out and you're leaning
a little bit and you're blocking somebody and you're fully extended,
(32:09):
you're that much further away from the quarterback. It makes
the guy run that much further. I'm talking about offensive
lineman having to get to the quarterback. And people don't realize, Yes,
offensive line play and trench play it's a very physical affair.
But when you talk to any offensive line coach or
anybody that that's played in the trenches, it's all about hands,
it's all about arms, it's all about that punch. The
(32:31):
defensive guys are so much more athletic. You just want
to get him like stopped for a second, and that
punch it does just that. So yeah, I mean length
for all offensive linement vitally important. And I can even
go for the pass rushers too, being able to have
those long arms to be able to shed an offensive
linement and disengage. That's what the length means for defensive players.
(32:52):
Just real quick on the length of some of these players.
When you look at a guy and you know that
he's long, have you ever been fooled? Because sometimes I
look at it, dude, and I go, he's really long,
And then you see the measurables after and I go, what, Like,
he looks bigger than what he actually is. It doesn't
make sense to me. Well, first of all, is a
(33:12):
guy slouched over? And how's it with this posture? Looked like? Look,
all of those things can affect what a guy looks
like as opposed to his actual measurables. But I mean,
this game is about genetics. This game is about being
physically dominant, and if you're a guy that can move
right and you have length, a coach is going to
(33:33):
find a place for you. That's just what this game
is all about. And Rob, you know the point that
I'm bringing up I'm being fooled is there's been multiple
dbs where I see how long their arms are and
I think to myself, oh my god, the length is
kind of crazy here. And yet I see the wingspan
when they get measured at their prote or their combine,
and it's not always matching up. But the importance of
(33:53):
that length for me just keeping guys wide receivers at
bay coming off the line, extending out like there's some
obvious functionality. Absolutely, and look where a defensive back, if
he lacks some footspeed, the length is vital. And I
always go to my good friend Richard Sherman. Richard Sherman
is not gonna go out here and beat Tyreek Hill
(34:16):
and running. But the thing about Sherman is because he's
so long, and guys like him a Brandon Browner at
some point Tyreek woolin now with the Seahawks. Because they're
so long, they can actually wait a second longer when
they're defending a guy, meaning they can wait until they
actually see the ball about to come out because they
have the length to catch up. Meaning again not necessarily
(34:38):
the foot speed, but they have the length that if
they were within a step or two, they can get
to the football. And that's that's vier Lymport. I love that.
I've never heard this, but recovery length. Can I coin that?
Go ahead? Oka is about recovery speed. I've never heard
covery length. Yeah, I'm gonna start explaining. Yo, I gotta
I'm doing draft coverage NFL dot Com this year again.
(34:59):
I'm telling you, I'm I'm throwing that. I'm gonna say.
It's gonna sound like like I'm I'm DJ recovery length.
That's gonna be one of my teams at some point.
I like that. I do want to get into some
of the numbers in the science behind what we're discussing here.
One study from the University of Utah found that the
first ten yards of a running backs forty yard dash
time was predictive of their yards per carry in the NFL,
(35:22):
which I don't know if that surprises you. Were not,
But another study from sports scientists at the University of
Rhode Island found that the broad jump was a decent
indicator of successive running backs d ns and defensive tackles.
You're throwing up your hands. You're like, yeah, man, I
got through broad jump out there a few times. Man.
Because again, if you're explosive off your individual legs like that, man,
(35:43):
it makes you, It makes your speedster. And then over
at UCLA, how about this from a quarterback perspective, they
determined that NFL success it only found one true correlation.
Check this out, a quarterback's height and their future completion percentage.
Really yeah, maybe it becomes some of those easier throws
that you were talking about, not having to rely on
(36:03):
some of those throwing lands. I don't know, but the folks,
the smart folks at u CELA said, that's that's what
the deal makes sense. So a lot of analysis to
unpack here. I'm gonna brass taxes or I'm gonna ask
you to do that. Gmcap On, dudes got great tape
combined in person when you're there it's okay or the
dude just got okay tape and just wows you at
(36:26):
the combine. Which how do you balance those things? Man,
that's a good question. I mean, that's the rub of
why you're a general manager or a talent evaluator. I
value game tape more because again, when you ask any
football player, they don't want to miss games. They don't
care about practice, right, Well, some of guys don't care
(36:47):
about practice. They do not want to miss games. Guys
want to show up and show out in the biggest situations.
And so for me, if I'm evaluating a guy, I
gotta see what he looked like when he was all
motivated and ready to go out there and do his
job on his level, right, I just want to see
him comfortable there. And that's why I value game tape.
(37:09):
I really do, yams. You you can't just make your
draft picks or your draft analysis solely based off the combine.
There's just it's not real football being played, it's it's
drills being done so that you can evaluate. I've always
thought that used the combine to enhance your thoughts on
a player or take away like the personality thing to
(37:31):
me is really important because I look in a day
and age where character actually matters, or I think it does.
To me that face to face interaction, like I already
seen what you can do on game film when when
bullets are alive, I want to know how you are,
how you're going to represent an organization, which is why
a lot of these teams, as you mentioned earlier, know
about all the stuff that you were doing before even
(37:52):
got to your don't lie about any of that stuff.
Many already know it. Bottom line here combine, we absolutely
love it. We're going to have complete coverage Do not
Miss exclusively on NFL Network. Coverage Thursday, March second at
three pm goes through Sunday, March fifth, which means if
you're sending those dms with questions you can you can
say some nice things about the show. I might be
(38:13):
a little slow to respond to my apologies and Rob
terrific job is always I'm my Kem. I always appreciated
our crew help us out in an immense way. Thanks
so much for listening.
NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership
with iHeartRadio. I feel like it's been a minute since
we've been in the studio. Three weeks. Basically, that's a
long time. What's a long time in life, I've been
in the studio with you. We got a brand new
(00:26):
edition of NFL Explained. I don't typically start with apologies.
In fact, I'm one of those dudes. I'm gonna I'm
going to apologize because throughout the course of season two
of NFL explained, how many times if I usually get
a kick out of it. I love doing it so much,
I say, hey, send me the dms. Don't go into
m Rob's dms. We're gonna get your questions. It has
(00:47):
been so crazy in terms of East West Shrine Bowl,
which I had. You got Pro Bowl, you got Super Bowl,
you got get ready for the Combine, which, by the way,
our episode today is about the Combine. You got all
these things going on. I looked, this is when you
know it's bad. I looked at the dms the other day. Okay,
there was a ton of dms. This is God's honest
(01:08):
ton of dms with questions praising you, by the way,
nothing about me shows great and Rob's awesome, and I'm like,
you're sending me the DM, which is part of it.
But I will say this, I promise, because I always
make it a point to say I get in touch
with everyone. I promise at some point I'll get back
to you. We're going to continue to roll on the
NFL Screen podcast. I'm trying that. By the way. Also, congrats.
(01:33):
How about Kansas City. Yeah, man Chiefs the chiefs Man,
big time game. That was a great place man, awesome game.
And yes, the Patrick Mahomes followed my Buffalo Bills fans
and my Josh Allen. Butsuka comments, Patrick Mahomes is the
best play and he got me. Oh my goodness, that
was so awesome. But Hurts, he's up there. He is
(01:55):
definitely good. There's a reason why he finished second in
the MVP voting. By the way, since we're talking about
Mahomes and Jalen Hurts, we did do an episode pretty
recently on quarterbacks. The Goat's Mahomes's name did pop into
this conversation, so highly encourage you to go back and
take a listen to that one. All Right, I already
sort of stole the thunder. I said, today's episode is
about the Combine, and if you read the comments, you
(02:16):
probably already knew that this episode was about the Combine.
Your experience. I always say this about the NFL Combine.
It is essentially a an underwear modeling competition, is how
I describe it. Is that a fair assessment. It's very fair.
And I'm going to be completely honest with you right now.
My wife is going to get upset with me because
(02:37):
we have gotten into arguments about this. We don't have arguments.
We heated fellowship and it started I think about three
years ago. My wife was like plastered in front of
the TV. I didn't know what was going on, and
she was like, Babe, this new show you guys have
on NFL Network Combine or whatever. This thing is, Oh
(03:00):
my goodness, And she did this little dance like this,
and I'm like, oh, I got upset a little bit,
you know what I mean. I had to check myself,
my manhood a little bit because I knew where she
was getting at some of the top genetic physical specimens
in the college game, getting ready for the biggest interview
of their lives and going to the National Football League.
But yeah, had to throw it out there. My wife's
(03:21):
gonna get a quick little laugh at that, and she'll
probably remind me of that when I get back home
after she listens to this episode. So here's the true
in the India, right like you, you made a living
playing professional football as an athlete, you're still in great shape. Here,
I don't have that starting point. We were out the
other day and we were watching the NBA All Star
Break DK Metcalf coming down and I was like, crazy, yo,
(03:42):
he is as like much of a freak zoids maybe
there's ever been on the planet. I get the who
is that? Oh, let me see? Go to Google images
and it's all like and I'm like, what are we
doing here? I set the dinner table. This is man,
but I opened up the door for it. Your your
combine experience didn't sound too positive. It wasn't Yeah, it
(04:02):
wasn't that great of an experience. And it had nothing
really to do with the talent evaluators or the teams.
To me, it was myself. It was the fact that
I was listening to my agent at the time and
I didn't work out. I didn't throw at the combat,
I didn't run at the combine. I did everything at
my pro day. Just looking back again, hindsight is always
twenty twenty looking back, when you see guys like Vince Young,
(04:24):
Matt Line of guys like that that worked out and threw,
you wish you would have been on the same field
with those guys thrown at the same time. This is
not uncommon, though, So why do you have those regrets
because I've covered you know, this year, we obviously at
our combat coverage on NFL Network, We're going to be
airing it all the dudes running their forties, the position groups,
the whole thing. I've also covered a ton of pro
days over the years. It is not foreign for a
(04:47):
guy to not run this forty at the combine and
then run on his own college campus. So why so
much of a regret for you? Well, the regret was, okay,
we always we gotta put ourselves back what fifteen twenty
years because the National Football League, just to me, in
my opinion, wasn't ready for a Jalen Hurtzel, Lamar Jackson
or Michael Robinson at the time. The scheme hadn't elevated
(05:07):
to that yet, and so I was forced to kind
of change my position and look at other positions, and
so I decided not to throw, and again we had
other quarterbacks throwing. And people have to understand when you're
at the combine, it's not just the physical things that
you're doing. I mean, this is a one of the
biggest interviews of that these kids will ever go through,
and it's really to see these guys and see how
(05:30):
they respond and how they react amongst their contemporaries right
at the common I remember being there in two thousand
and six, finally seeing all the guys I saw on ESPN,
all the college you know, Vinch Youngs, the Matt Liners,
the Reggie Bushes, all the guys that you you know,
you become fans of right and you get to see
him and be around him and operate around him, and
just being in those rooms and being in those conversations.
(05:51):
I just look back and wish, man, if I could
have been, you know, throwing my footballs so that teams
are looking at it in comparison to Vinch Young or
in comparison to any of the other quarterbacks at the time,
maybe I would have got a shot playing quarterback in person.
Because it's not it's not just film. It's literally bang
bang bang, like quarterback Goos Quarterbackos. Yeah, it's right there,
(06:11):
you know. And the talent evaluators they're all in the
stands all around you, some of them all up on
the field. And I remember because I did stay for
a little bit part of the field workouts in the
in the runs, they still call your name. I knew
I wasn't gonna run. I told everybody I wasn't gonna run.
Michael Robinson, quarterback, number whatever, whatever. And you have to
visually say no, And that does something to you because
(06:34):
you gotta step up and say no. In the talent
evataways are looking to send up. But I thought you
would a beast of the East, Mike rob I thought
you was the big ten player of the years. This
is this how y'all get down? And yeah I was.
I was a little pissed off about that, but I
had already had it. I had already made the decision
and had a plan not to run, not to work out,
and I didn't want to jump out as that. Keep
in mind, there's gonna be three hundred and nineteen total
(06:56):
prospects to combine this year. There are only eleven players
from non FBS schools. As far as the big name schools.
So you can imagine Alabama, Georgia they're sending the most
team and twelve players respectively, Florida, Michigan, LSU, TCU. Here
we Gons they're sending nine em Is it about the tape?
Is it more about what they do at the combine?
(07:18):
Some of the guys might not even be working out,
Like how do you separate yourself if you're in this
year's class. Well, obviously game tape is gonna be everything, Right,
what did you do when the lights were on? You know,
you had to play a game, your university, your team,
everybody's rooting for you, everybody's depending on you to do
your job. How did you respond and how did you
(07:40):
play in those situations? I think that's vitally important, and
that's the most important when you go to the combine
to I think talent evaluators are just saying, Okay, let
me confirm what I saw on tape. Let me I
saw this on tape. I saw this kid had great
movement ability, or I saw that he had great football IQ. Okay,
let me see in these standard drills, because these are
all standard type drills, just a baseline, so that talent
(08:03):
and valuators can have a baseline, a value you wait
everybody off of. I think they're just coming to the
combine to confirm and obviously get to know the prospects.
And people don't realize, especially I work with some of
these guys coming up at the end of the day.
You can make a lot of hay off the field
with these talented value with us. How you speak, how
professionally you are with them, looking guys in their eyes,
(08:25):
and being truthful, being truthful. I remember I had gotten
to a fight in high school or whatever. I had
no idea they we're gonna bring it up. But I
remember Bill Parcels at the time brought it up. Hey man,
you were in this little you know, scadattle when you
were in high school. And I'm like what. And this
was just after he asked me what my favorite offensive
play was and I told him I liked the curls
(08:46):
on the outside of the streets going down whatever. And
it just I don't know what kind of threw me
for a loop. But don't lie. They know pretty much everything. Okay,
So what about the difference between how a guy executes
at the combine where it's a little bit of I
don't want to say an unsettled environment, but it's new
for these guys. When you're on your home campus for
(09:06):
your pro days, it's I mean, it's comfort. You wake
up in your bed, you're doing all the things that
you're used to. You know, you're saying a lot of
the cafeteria person that you usually have pregame meals. You're
probably working with the wide receivers. It's your dudes that
are out there. Like I would imagine, it is a
much more beneficial experience to do well at the pro
day compared to the combine. It is because, I mean,
(09:28):
that's your natural environment. You controlled all the controllables and
all of those things. But when you're in Indy, when
again that environment, they're not a talent Evaluators aren't expecting
these athletes to be perfect. Sure, they just want to
see you compete. They just want to see you step
up to the challenge and go out there and go play.
When you go to pro days, now it's on your terms, right,
(09:50):
you can go out there and do the things and
set up things just the way you want to. I remember,
if you remember just a few years ago to Johnny
Menzel Pro Day, how everybody was hooping and hollering about
all he had the music, he had to show it,
so on he had to pass. He controlled the control
bibles and elevated himself and he was taken in the
first round. So the pro day is important, But I
(10:12):
would say that, especially for people in my situation, that
wasn't a surefire top ten type of a pick. You
got to go to the combine and make some noise. Okay.
I was in Vegas a couple of weeks back for
the East West Shrine Bowl, talk to a bunch of
different scouts and this is it was something that I
had already known, but it was reiterated again a couple
(10:33):
of weeks back. And that's this idea of getting to
know the player. I mentioned some of the questions that
are going to be asked. What I think is fascinating
is these guys go to Indie. You decide to go out, Well,
guess what, like you, M Rob like I might work
for the Giants, right, like you might kind of know
who I am. Maybe you don't. But then m Rob
deceives me and goes, hey, that dude might work for
the Giants. I shouldn't be here. I go to the
(10:54):
next place. Well, guess what my boy who works for
I wouldn't say the Jets, but let's just call he's
at that other spot. I get the text message, you'll
m Rob's over here, maybe doing some stuff. I am
fascinated by the personality aspect of also understanding now there
was a high draft pick top ten guy from last year.
I heard the same story twice now from two different people. Hey,
(11:17):
this dude was in Indie getting after it at one place.
We told him like, might not be the best. Look,
went to another spot. Their boys sent to text passions
said hey, I saw this guy maybe getting it after
a little bit too hard. I tell young people all
the time that's going through this process because you know,
a lot of former athletes work with guys. You know,
whether our agent brings you in to talk to the
(11:38):
group or whatever. And I just tell guys, look, man,
this has been one of the longest interview processes of
your life. Don't mess it up. You know almost at
the bag, man, don't mess it up. Like, why would
you go to Indie and go out that Yams? That
wasn't even in my thought process, Like I wasn't even
(12:00):
thinking about going out like that. Wasn't even a thing
that was even possible. Let me tell you, I was
upset because they told me I had a drug test
at five in the morning one day, and I got
up at four thirty in the morning unconsciously and use
the bathroom, And so I had to drink so much
water or whatever in the morning to go take the
(12:23):
drug test right before I had to do my official
way in, so my weight was inflated and it just
totally pissed me off and messed up my day. But
at the end of the day, But the point I'm
trying to make you go there for a reason. You're
going there for a business trip. You don't go there
to go out. I can't believe that guys are doing that.
Just anyone who's listening to this podcast, I just want
(12:45):
you to just take a moment and listen to what
m Rob just said. Using the bathroom at four thirty
in the morning messed up something in terms of how
you were evaluate. Yeah, I believe so, because again I
wanted to be a certain way. Yeah, I had lost
a certain amount of weight I had, you know, I
was a certain shape and frame and broad drunks much
(13:06):
water before I had to win because I had to.
They would not allow you to go through with the
rest of your schedule until that drug tests happened. So literally,
I'm sitting up in there. There's a couple of other
guys I can't remember the name after. I'm just sitting
up in there, like, dude, you woke up and yeah, man,
I forgot all of us we got I mean, it's
just something that happened. And then the schedule. Then you
end up going being late behind everybody to explain to everyone.
(13:29):
I pad at four thirty, Yeah I messed up. And
they're sitting and and and in my head, I'm thinking,
because it's all interview for me, I'm thinking, are they
gonna think that I'm that dumb too? Oh? Like, come on,
you know what, I'm all the layers around it. It's
all the layers. That's why I said, like, it's kind
of fascinating you hear about this small, little innocuous moment
that you don't even think about, and then how it
(13:49):
kind of dramatically alters things moving forward. All right, Welcome
back to the NFL Explained podcasts. Mike Yam and Rob
with you and Rob mentioned some of these questions we've
heard the crazy ones that are out there. Brandon Vinnie
had sent you know some of the list care I
(14:10):
almost don't. I hadn't heard this one. I'm gonna go
with it anyway, just because I wasn't aware of this one.
How many ways could you use a paper clip? That
allegedly was an actual question where you asked that that
was a real question. That's what did you use a
paper clip? Maybe that must be one of those am
I t I Q questions? Right? Trying to normal function
to like keep papers together? Yeah, unpick a lock, not
(14:32):
that I don't know. I've seen it in movies. Trying
to answer this question right now? And then um, I
don't know, like borderline dart, I don't know what else
I am questions? Yeah, I mean it was something that
was conscious with me when I was getting some of
these questions about my grandparents and you know, uh, you
know what male is around in the house and things
(14:54):
like that. So that's something that really stood out to me.
But I mean the big question that I kept on
getting was bro Number one, are you married to the
quarterback position? Because we I saw that you led the
team and receiving, we saw that you was behind Larry
Johnson and rushing to football. One year, we saw that
you would back up throwing. I mean, what position do
(15:14):
you really want to play? That was a big one
in number two. How did you answer that? I answered it.
My goal was to be in the National Football League,
not be a quarterback in the National Football League, but
I would I owe it to myself to give myself
every opportunity to be a quarterback in this league. So
all I ask, if you draft me, watch me take snaps,
(15:35):
watch me throw the football, and if you deem I
need to go to another position, cool, I'll do it.
That's such a reasonable response. Did you work on that
with your agent? I mean, I imagine like there's preparation,
Like you know you're gonna be ask certain questions. When
I had my interview at NFL Network, I had an
idea of a few things that we're going to be asked.
You you kind of have some thoughts in your head.
(15:56):
You knew that question was coming. I knew the question
was coming, but something a little deeper. You gotta be
real with yourself. And oftentimes I see young people they
just real with themselves, like they everybody thinks they're the
best and always the best in this that in the
third I looked at my situation and I looked, I said,
how many quarterbacks that look like me to play the
(16:17):
game that I play is in the National Football League
having success? Right now? What minute? I mean? You had
Michael Vick, You has some guy And so when you
look at it from that situation, you just had to
be real with yourself. And I just thought I owed
it to myself five years of chasing this quarterback dream
in college, that you just give me an opportunity to
take a snap after that, if you don't like what
you see, I'll do what I need to do to
make a living. Okay, So in the long run, that's
(16:38):
probably the right approach, right because you're staying true to
yourself and the team that's considering bringing you onto their
roster knows what they're getting. Yeah, I'll flip it and say,
maybe you're a little too forthcoming, maybe you're a little
too honest. You know, I've talked to enough players where
you go, is that how you really feel? Or is
that what you were trained to say? And that response
(17:02):
right like, don't give them too much straddle defense a
little bit. I don't know what general managers and team
personnel are thinking like, is that a good thing? Is
it a bad thing? If you're the face of my franchise,
are you a little bit of a loose cannon where
you're gonna be saying stuff that I don't want you
to say, And maybe being borning is good. I used
to cover baseball back in the day. You go into
the Yankees locker room, Derek Jeter was the worst postgame
(17:24):
interview because Derek Jeter wasn't going to say a damn
thing and go get you mine, not going to give
you anything. One. I used to cover my team, the Mets.
You go in there, PA would be friendly with you
that you got the kids, you know, running around and
the music going different vibe. But I don't know what's
better like, And I don't know how general managers and
coaches would sit there and go, hey do I want
this on my squad? Well, I think you know the situation.
(17:46):
Obviously it has to give context everything, and I think
just look at my specific situation. I think teams appreciated
the honesty, appreciated that I was able to see myself
for truly who I am. Sure you know what I mean.
And oftentimes we get kids who and people in their
lives who just keep both of them up, keep pushing
them up, keep pushing up. Which is all good. Is
(18:08):
okay to have praise and things like that, but at
some point you gotta be honest with yourself. And again,
like I started by answering this question, By this, my
goal was to play in the National Football League, not
being an NFL quarterback. And at the end of the day,
those two principles stuck in my head and I wanted
to make and guarantee the bag, not necessarily the bag
at quarterback. Okay, So then there's the actual drills right right,
(18:31):
Like the forty is the one that stands out. I mean, hell,
I've done shows this year. I'm still referencing dudes forty
times because when it's spectacular and then you see it
in real time on the field. How many times have
you and I have talked about this on Total Access?
Tarik Wolan goes out there and you're like, yo, he
was fast at the combine, and damn that dude might
be faster on the football field. Like it's crazy the
context around some of this stuff. I don't know. You
(18:52):
tell me the drills like forty to me. Sometimes feels
completely irrelevant depending on the position. Sometimes it's totally relevant
in the situation that I just made reference to Tyreek Wolan.
I think it's relevant in almost every position, honestly, and
know people may be sampled, Mike rob I mean, if
an offensive lineman has to sprint forty yards like that,
your team's probably gonna lose, you know what I'm saying, Like,
(19:13):
if you got to do it that much work. But
when you look at the forty with the big guys,
you're really were looking at the first ten yards, You're
really looking at the get off, You're really looking at
different aspects of the forty. And people have to understand
we have to have some type of uniform way to
basically test guys for just basic athleticism. And I think
that's what the forty does. That's what the change of
(19:33):
direction drills do. And then when you get into the fieldwork,
obviously it goes more into your position specific types of areas.
But uh yeah, I think the command does a good job.
But if at least showcasing the athleticism of the genetics
we have in our league. Okay, so basic athleticism depending
on positioning group, I'm gonna throw a group of your way.
You just tell me what the drill matters the most.
Quarterback seems obvious to me. But it was obvious too,
(19:56):
I would say throwing right, job, I was nervous, shut
shuttle subtly, So are you kidding me? Let's go no
throwing and obviously accuracy ball placement, um, how fluid the
ball comes out of your hands. But I will say this,
(20:18):
what guys like Lamar Jackson, what guys like Jalen Hurts um.
Some people can put justin fields in this category. I
think the forty and the movement skills are gonna start
to become more and more important for evaluating that position,
because again, the more that position runs, the more of
this game becomes eleven on eleven. All right, I love
the forty. Can I have a little confession here? What's
(20:40):
my favorite thing to watch when I go to any
of the pro days? Or the words? Really? Yeah, I
don't know why because you know when I was a kid,
and was I the only kid who did this? But
you'd walk through a doorway and like you just try
to hit the top of the doorway. But I don't
call my wife all the time. Yes, like the problem
is like a three sixty. So, like you know, I
(21:01):
used to go when I lived on the East Coast
and I was closer to family, you know, the Fisher Price.
I was a Fisher Price all Star man with my
little cousins dunking on the Now one of them is
like my height. I'm like son of a man once
you get good. It's happen genetics, not on our side
of the family, his dad's side anyway. Besides the point,
but the vert's always cool to me because it just
reminds me of my childhood. And I do think that
(21:21):
there's some of the fact that I really can't jump
all that high and the knees aren't there anymore. But
wide receiver, tight end, Like, I don't know how important
the vertical is for some of those guys. Maybe it is,
But are there some other drills that if you were evaluating,
you'd say, hey, I need my wide receiver or tight
end to be really good in this drill. The vert
and the broad to me, that correlates to the explosiveness
(21:43):
that you'll see maybe in the start of their forties
or maybe really yeah, maybe because just think about it,
you're not running, you're just seeing how far you can
jump from a stand still, and it just shows explosiveness.
And this is not the exact science, but I feel
like if you look back on some of the biggest,
you know, broad jumps and verts, they're gonna have some
(22:03):
of your fastest times. I mean to me that that
that's just if you're super explosive off a single leg
or both legs, it's gonna make you move faster. Old line,
old line. What I got for the old line ten
yards splitting the forty very important, very very important. I
will go again to the broad jump and obviously the
old line change of direction drills, and again I go
(22:26):
to broad jump, and this is just for me. I
go to those drills because it shows the bend in
the hips. It shows the explosiveness from the biggest muscle
in there in these kids bodies, the hips, and it
oftentimes shows how powerful they can be at moving people
off the ball, because again, if they can sink and
get in their hips and be explosive from their hips,
they can move people. Is it the same exact thing
(22:47):
just on the flip side for the D line pretty much?
I mean that's a big but two sumo wrestlers going
back and forth, just pushing weight back and forth. But
for the d line, and I do like to see
them kind of run the whole forty and just see
what their delta time the last twenty yards would be,
and just see how they finish. It really is spectacular
when some of those dudes can Also You're like, how
does it dude that big run that fact? It's amazing.
(23:11):
It is really amazing, yams to see six six, six seven,
two ninety pounds run four to five and people don't realize,
like a Kuombolt and one of the greatest receivers our
league has ever seen, ran a four six four six
is not slough, you know what I'm saying. It's actually fast.
But we get so enamored with these fast times and
things like that we don't necessarily realize it. dB. Similar
(23:33):
to what you would say for the wide receivers. Yeah,
obviously for defensive backs being able to track the football
while it's in the air. Like you look at dbs
and wide receivers right, like they're the same, dude, one
can catch one camp. Yeah, that's how we look at
them and see the differentiation. And oftentimes the great defensive
backs are the guys that can catch I e. Richard Sherman,
(23:53):
former wide receivers. So they have a great They do
a great job at tracking the football, and you won't
see them flip their hips and getting it out of breaks.
To see how fluid they are in the hips. It's
gonna let you know how fast they can break on
out driving routes. Twenty years ago, if I asked you
about linebackers, would your answer be the same as it
is today. No, man, I think the lineback I think
we're seeing a transformation of the linebacker position. It happened
(24:17):
right before eyes. Obviously, you have the outside guys who
are basically pass rushers, right they rushed the passer, you know.
Sometimes Von Miller's an outside linebacker in his defense. And
then you got the stand up inside type of linebackers
like the Roquan Smiths and guys like that. I do
think it takes different skill sets for those guys. Now. Again,
(24:37):
twenty years ago, they were more thumpers, more bangers, and
I think now you have to see movement ability from
those guys. What about the dudes out of the backfield
running backs? Oh my gosh, right, my guys. Right, I
think the forty is important for running backs. I want
to see whether this guy's gonna make defensive coordinator stay
up all night. And what I mean by this, there's
a lot of running backs who can put the ball
(24:58):
in the right place and get the number of yards
the play was designed to be blocked for sure, right
you know, seventy power going to the left, pulling the
guard that plays usually going to get you between I
don't know, four to six yards, you know what I mean.
If your back has got something with him, he can
get ten to twelve. If he's really special, he'll get through.
If you got a running back that's in that four
four four three range, and when he gets to the
(25:20):
second level he can pull away from defensive backs. That's
what scares defensive coordinators. And so yeah, look at the
forty drill obviously the running back change of direction, types
of drills, and can he catch out of the backfield.
If he can catch out of the backfield, I don't
have to sub him on third down. I was working
with Lt. Ladamian Thominson the other day and someone asked
(25:40):
him this question in one of our meetings, and I'm
curious how you would respond to this. How do you
measure a running back and pass pro. Is there a drill?
Is there something that's specific at the combine because it's
such a huge part and we always talk about the
physical attributes of these guys and what you just characterize
running down field. Is there a burse where there's real separation,
because that's going to create a nightmare for a defensive
(26:00):
coordinator and for the dudeis try to track him down.
But passpor is such an important part of the game,
and these guys are asked to do it, it almost
feels like you're not doing anything at the comboy to
measure that you can't. Yeah, that's what you can't. You
cannot do a drill to measure whether a guy can
be great at pass pro. And I think that's why
you see some of the elite backs you'll come into
(26:21):
our league struggle with pass pro at first, because oftentimes
in college they're never asked, they not asked to do
a lot of it. And be honest, witche jams. In
the National Football League, the only time you go live passpro.
You may get it, you know, two or three times
during training camp, sure, and then you're in the game,
and that's really the only time that you can do it.
(26:42):
But uh yeah, that's tough man. One of my favorite
words for the draft is twitchy. Like if you played
the game at home, anytime you heard the word twitchy,
it'd be a whole lot of fun. It is a
little bit of a cliche. But coming up next, we'll
talk about some of the specific traits for players and
why some of those twitchy type words are actually important.
(27:03):
That's coming up next on NFL Explained. Back here on
the NFL's Playing Podcast, Mike Am and my Super Bowl
champ Michael Robinson, we continue to discuss the combine. Quarterback
height seems to be a little bit of question mark
(27:25):
and in this year's draft, and we're gonna see him
at the combine and Bryce Young from Alabama in the
top three at his position. He's six feet tall. It
just maybe a little on the shorter end. I see
you kind of like, that's a little on the shorter end.
But but Yams and I don't know, I'm following the comment, bro,
But to me, it's not the height with Bryce Young,
(27:46):
it's about the heart. That's That's what I've been telling
people for years. Well, honestly, it's it's the one hundred
and ninety four taking a beating. That's what scares me.
It's not necessarily height. We've seen Russell Wilson five eleven
six feet in that six foot range still be able
to operate in an Ask footballleague. Colin Murray, again, he's
a shorter guy, but these guys are thicker lower body.
(28:08):
These guys are a little bit more compact, and they
can kind of handle the riggers. Look, when you're a
shorter guy, oftentimes in your protection, you gotta find the
throwing lane. For instance, when you look at that Super
Bowl Super Bow forty nine, Malcolm Butler intercepted that pass
from Russell Wilson. Sure, if you look at the pass
that was the passing lane, Russell really couldn't see or
(28:32):
he wouldn't be able to throw over anybody that was
the passing lane. That protection was designed so that the
lane was where the slant was. And so that's what
you have to do with the shorter guys. In that
same game, you saw Tom Brady throw over somebody to
hit Julian Edelman for a touchdown. When you have height,
you can throw over guys and it allows you to
play quarterback a little bit better. Okay, so flip at
them what's the advantage if you're a shorter guy, because look,
(28:54):
the reality is we don't not every dude to six
to five and you know flamethrower out there. Well, the
advantages you get lost man defensive guys, these big six
six six five defensive guys trying to get after guys
like a Russell Wilson, Coller Murray and guys like that too.
A little bit shorter, they're actually able to get out
of trouble a little bit better. But yes, oftentimes when
(29:15):
they get a little bit of pressure, they have to
retreat and move so that they can see. That's what
that's what happens if we have a smaller quarterback. But
again it's the one hundred ninety four pounds because I
don't mean to say this because he went to Alabama
as well, but I look at two what six foot
two hundred and seventeen pounds. I don't think he's two
hundred seventeen pounds. I stood next to him when he
when they played in that Buffalo game. I didn't think
(29:35):
he was that big. And again, his issue has been
protecting himself from hitting the ground, something that I think
they're gonna have to look at Okay, I want to
throw another measurable your way at the quarterback spot. It
was a huge conversation a season ago. You know exactly
where I'm going with this, Kenny Pickett, we heard about
hand side got little hands. Broka. I'm just saying, dog,
(29:55):
all right, I'm gonna throw this your way. How about this,
statistically speaking, Russell Wilson notoriously large hands? Right? Okay, you
would know you were teammates with him. I don't rush
shook his hands. Russell can dap you b and his
middle finger hits your elbow. Okay, So what you're saying
is not small hands for Russo. But how about this now?
Alex Smith? Also, Um, this was a conversation around Alex
(30:18):
Smith back in the day when he was drafted by
the Niners. Wilson, who's got the large chance that you
made reference to in a large you know, middle finger
that would my elbow? Okay? A career fumble rate that's
higher than Smith's. Are we getting off the rails here?
Yes we are. He's taken a few or more sacks.
But are we making too much of a bigger deal
when it comes to a hand size for a quarterback? Um?
(30:40):
I'm gonna say yes and no. Yes, we are making
a little bit of a bigger deal because it's not
like every quarterback had the biggest hands in the world.
You know, there's been successful quarterbacks that has smaller hands.
Michael Vick has smaller hands. That's one of the knocks
on me. They keble saying, man, your hands are like
Michael Vings Man, you got runner hands. I'm like, whatever
the hell that means? Um when you when you look
(31:01):
at these quarterbacks with the with the bigger with the
bigger hands, that's when you get the weird at arm
angles and the Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen crazy throws,
and you know, you see the Russell Wilson looked like
he's at short stop throwing the football. Sometimes, to me,
when a guy has larger hands, whether doesn't affect him,
height doesn't affect him as much getting the ball out
and slinging the football, and having Aaron Rodgers another one,
(31:25):
having being able to get the ball out of weird
arm angles. They that just doesn't affect these guys. Okay,
So lengths to me in certain spots makes all the
difference in the world than it becomes obvious. I was
talking to a coach a couple weeks ago, college coach
who was telling me about one of his guys who
will see it the combine and his length and how
important it was, and I watched him in up practices
in Vegas. I'm like, damn, that coach wasn't lying like this.
(31:47):
This dude is freaking long. From a lineman standpoint, offensive line,
I always talk about the reach of these guys. How
important is that reach because in some instance we're talking
about like an inch half an inch, Like, is it
that meaningful? It's huge? No kidding, yeah, I mean think
about it. If you a guy out six six sixty
seven and you put your arms out and you're leaning
a little bit and you're blocking somebody and you're fully extended,
(32:09):
you're that much further away from the quarterback. It makes
the guy run that much further. I'm talking about offensive
lineman having to get to the quarterback. And people don't realize, Yes,
offensive line play and trench play it's a very physical affair.
But when you talk to any offensive line coach or
anybody that that's played in the trenches, it's all about hands,
it's all about arms, it's all about that punch. The
(32:31):
defensive guys are so much more athletic. You just want
to get him like stopped for a second, and that
punch it does just that. So yeah, I mean length
for all offensive linement vitally important. And I can even
go for the pass rushers too, being able to have
those long arms to be able to shed an offensive
linement and disengage. That's what the length means for defensive players.
(32:52):
Just real quick on the length of some of these players.
When you look at a guy and you know that
he's long, have you ever been fooled? Because sometimes I
look at it, dude, and I go, he's really long,
And then you see the measurables after and I go, what, Like,
he looks bigger than what he actually is. It doesn't
make sense to me. Well, first of all, is a
(33:12):
guy slouched over? And how's it with this posture? Looked like? Look,
all of those things can affect what a guy looks
like as opposed to his actual measurables. But I mean,
this game is about genetics. This game is about being
physically dominant, and if you're a guy that can move
right and you have length, a coach is going to
(33:33):
find a place for you. That's just what this game
is all about. And Rob, you know the point that
I'm bringing up I'm being fooled is there's been multiple
dbs where I see how long their arms are and
I think to myself, oh my god, the length is
kind of crazy here. And yet I see the wingspan
when they get measured at their prote or their combine,
and it's not always matching up. But the importance of
(33:53):
that length for me just keeping guys wide receivers at
bay coming off the line, extending out like there's some
obvious functionality. Absolutely, and look where a defensive back, if
he lacks some footspeed, the length is vital. And I
always go to my good friend Richard Sherman. Richard Sherman
is not gonna go out here and beat Tyreek Hill
(34:16):
and running. But the thing about Sherman is because he's
so long, and guys like him a Brandon Browner at
some point Tyreek woolin now with the Seahawks. Because they're
so long, they can actually wait a second longer when
they're defending a guy, meaning they can wait until they
actually see the ball about to come out because they
have the length to catch up. Meaning again not necessarily
(34:38):
the foot speed, but they have the length that if
they were within a step or two, they can get
to the football. And that's that's vier Lymport. I love that.
I've never heard this, but recovery length. Can I coin that?
Go ahead? Oka is about recovery speed. I've never heard
covery length. Yeah, I'm gonna start explaining. Yo, I gotta
I'm doing draft coverage NFL dot Com this year again.
(34:59):
I'm telling you, I'm I'm throwing that. I'm gonna say.
It's gonna sound like like I'm I'm DJ recovery length.
That's gonna be one of my teams at some point.
I like that. I do want to get into some
of the numbers in the science behind what we're discussing here.
One study from the University of Utah found that the
first ten yards of a running backs forty yard dash
time was predictive of their yards per carry in the NFL,
(35:22):
which I don't know if that surprises you. Were not,
But another study from sports scientists at the University of
Rhode Island found that the broad jump was a decent
indicator of successive running backs d ns and defensive tackles.
You're throwing up your hands. You're like, yeah, man, I
got through broad jump out there a few times. Man.
Because again, if you're explosive off your individual legs like that, man,
(35:43):
it makes you, It makes your speedster. And then over
at UCLA, how about this from a quarterback perspective, they
determined that NFL success it only found one true correlation.
Check this out, a quarterback's height and their future completion percentage.
Really yeah, maybe it becomes some of those easier throws
that you were talking about, not having to rely on
(36:03):
some of those throwing lands. I don't know, but the folks,
the smart folks at u CELA said, that's that's what
the deal makes sense. So a lot of analysis to
unpack here. I'm gonna brass taxes or I'm gonna ask
you to do that. Gmcap On, dudes got great tape
combined in person when you're there it's okay or the
dude just got okay tape and just wows you at
(36:26):
the combine. Which how do you balance those things? Man,
that's a good question. I mean, that's the rub of
why you're a general manager or a talent evaluator. I
value game tape more because again, when you ask any
football player, they don't want to miss games. They don't
care about practice, right, Well, some of guys don't care
(36:47):
about practice. They do not want to miss games. Guys
want to show up and show out in the biggest situations.
And so for me, if I'm evaluating a guy, I
gotta see what he looked like when he was all
motivated and ready to go out there and do his
job on his level, right, I just want to see
him comfortable there. And that's why I value game tape.
(37:09):
I really do, yams. You you can't just make your
draft picks or your draft analysis solely based off the combine.
There's just it's not real football being played, it's it's
drills being done so that you can evaluate. I've always
thought that used the combine to enhance your thoughts on
a player or take away like the personality thing to
(37:31):
me is really important because I look in a day
and age where character actually matters, or I think it does.
To me that face to face interaction, like I already
seen what you can do on game film when when
bullets are alive, I want to know how you are,
how you're going to represent an organization, which is why
a lot of these teams, as you mentioned earlier, know
about all the stuff that you were doing before even
(37:52):
got to your don't lie about any of that stuff.
Many already know it. Bottom line here combine, we absolutely
love it. We're going to have complete coverage Do not
Miss exclusively on NFL Network. Coverage Thursday, March second at
three pm goes through Sunday, March fifth, which means if
you're sending those dms with questions you can you can
say some nice things about the show. I might be
(38:13):
a little slow to respond to my apologies and Rob
terrific job is always I'm my Kem. I always appreciated
our crew help us out in an immense way. Thanks
so much for listening.
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Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.