June 10, 2022 • 35 mins
Ed talks with attorney and activist April Reign. Reign gained international attention after her 2015 hashtag, “Oscars so white” -that spoke to the lack of diversity in Academy Award Nominations. They talk about overall diversity in the media, the attack on democracy and women’s rights and why she publicly shared a story about a personal choice she made.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to the latest edition of one hundred The Ed
Gordon Podcast. Today a conversation with activist April Ray Rain
gained international attention after her hashtag oscar so white that
spoke to the lack of diversity and Academy Award nominations
went viral. The tweet struck a chord not just in
(00:44):
the industry, but around the world. It thrust the campaign
finance lawyer into a white hot spotlight and took her
from relative anonymity to celebrity overnight. I think people just
thought of you as someone who had a clever hashtag
and it ran from there, but knew very little about
(01:06):
the career you had prior to that, and that is
that you were a campaign finance lawyer for fifteen years.
Tell me a little bit about a what you were
doing up until the hashtag and how the hashtag really
almost overnight, changed to your life. I would suspect absolutely,
and thank you first of all and for having me
(01:27):
on today. I'm very excited to be with you. Um I,
as you mentioned, I was a campaign finance lawyer following
the money as everyone does in that business, and so
part of my job was looking at professional legislative political
campaigns and ensuring that people were doing all the right
(01:48):
things that they should have. It was not interesting work.
It absolutely did not fill my soul. Um. As you
know in theory, that's what we want our jobs to do,
if we have to work at all, right, uh. And
so I had been looking for another outlet for my creativity.
So initially I became a writer on Broadway Black dot com,
(02:11):
which is an online celebration of black folks on and
off the Broadway stage. And that was great. And eventually
I became um a managing editor of Broadway Black, which
allowed me to work with other writers and um ensure
that their writing was tight and strong, and we were
covering things like no one else did. We covered the
(02:34):
Tony Awards and everything um. And we understood that it
was important to highlight the black and brown folks that
are on stage because unfortunately, there aren't that many of them,
and they don't get the attention they deserve. So I
was doing all of that while still working full time.
And I was in my family room on that fateful
(02:55):
morning at January of and I was in my family
room because I love the oscars, I love all kinds
of entertainment. Stage and Film and Screen. Uh. And I
found out that Chris Hemsworth, the guy that plays Four
in the m c U, was one of the presenters.
And I said, you know what, I need to have
four in HD on the biggest screen in my house
(03:19):
because Thore today was wearing a suit. Uh. So I
was in the family room getting dressed as opposed in
my bedroom, and I was listening to him and his
co presenter, and it struck me that category after category
there were no people of color nominated for any of
the films. And so that's twenty slots, right, best Actor
and actress and Best Supporting Actor and actress. And if
(03:40):
we remember films, so we're talking about Selma, they're talking
about Beyond the Lights. Um. There were so many great
performances that year. And so I picked up my phone,
which is typically embedded in my forearm. I jumped on Twitter,
which is my social media platform of choice, and I said,
one tweet, Oscar is so white they asked to touch
(04:01):
my hair? Uh. And that was it. I went on
to work as a campaign finance attorney. I checked in
on Twitter around lunchtime, and based on that one tweet,
the hashtag was trending around the world. UH. And then
I had to make a decision, what does it look like?
This was not my first viral hashtag, it would not
be my last. And as everyone knows, hashtags come and
(04:22):
go every hour every day, one has to choose whether
they're going to sort of give it life. And UH
it was clear to me. Although the first responses to
Oscar so White were as petty and snarky as I
was being, UH, the conversation UH shifted into something much
more substantive about the lack of equity and representation in
(04:43):
Hollywood as a whole, both in front of and behind
the camera. And so for the last you're absolutely right
that this has changed my life. I stopped practicing law,
I moved away from where I was in the d
C area. UH, and nothing, as Drake would say, was
the same. UH. And so now for the past seven
or eight years since Oscar so White, I have been
(05:04):
working on the outskirts of the entertainment industry with brands
and companies and networks and TV shows, UH, to help
them if they're serious about it, because not always are
they about being more intentionally inclusive up and down the line,
in front of and behind the camera. Or screen. Let
me ask you this, I would suspect, particularly from filling
(05:28):
your soul as you put it, Um, this was something
all be a very random, uh, something that you can appreciate.
But going from relative anonymity to someone who the next
day was getting calls from every television network that you
can think of, Uh, that can be very daunting at times.
(05:50):
Give me a sense of what you were feeling when
this became even more than just a trending hashtag. Sure,
the first thing was fear, because you know again I was, yeah, absolutely,
because I was just a movie goer like everyone else.
I didn't have any training in the entertainment field, and
so I had to get up to speed with Okay,
(06:13):
well how white are the oscars? You know? So a
lot of research had to be done very quickly. You've
put this out there, you've made this claim. Can you
back it up? And sadly, you know, the stats are
even worse than I realized at the time. So I was.
And then it was after I got over that. The
initial fear it was is this sustainable? Because hashtags don't
(06:33):
pay the mortgage? And so you know, what am I
going to do? Can I make a career out of this. Um,
I have no problem saying I'm fifty two years old.
When I was in high school in the mid and
late eighties, Uh, if you wanted to be a professional,
that meant four things. Engineer, doctor, lawyer, accountant. Right, you
(06:54):
could not create your own career as so many millennials
and gen Z's due to their cre it, uh you know.
And and it was pounded into me that you get
that job, and you keep that job right again, you know,
and and you stay with it, and you show loyalty
unfortunately to organizations and jobs that don't always show it back.
And so then the question became, is this something Do
(07:16):
I take the leap and really make this change? And uh,
to my ex husband's credit, he was incredibly supportive, uh
you know, and and provided me that safety net and
can see how important this was to me and how
it it actually did film me. Uh. And so he said,
you know what, jump off, jump off the cliff, you know,
let me be your parachute. I got you. Uh And
(07:37):
and so here we are, let me ask you this.
And here's what's interesting to me. It couldn't have happened
any other time than the time we live in now
because of social media, and I think it's interesting because
what it does is it elevates someone like yourself who
had a particular background. I think that lends itself to
(07:58):
being able to do what you did, uh, you know, research,
really delve into it and thrust upon an idea, UM,
and present yourself knowledgeably. It also thrust people into positions
who now have a platform, who now oft times become
an overnight spokesman for not just themselves but by default
(08:23):
our community. UM that perhaps should not have that seat.
I'm wondering how you see that, because it really is
a double edged sword. And I don't have any qualms.
I'm sixty two, you're fifty two. I'm sixty two. In
August I will be. And it's interesting because I do
see the dynamic of the very plus side of social media,
(08:47):
but more than a lot of younger people, I do
see the downside of it in a way, and I
am not afraid to, sometimes at the risk of being canceled, uh,
pushback against it. So I'm curious how how you see that.
It's difficult, you know, I absolutely agree with you that
being not necessarily being a lawyer, but having been trained
(09:10):
to be a lawyer, Uh, was incredibly helpful. You know,
I knew that I was going to go to law
school when I was in high school. And part of
that was because, Uh, first of all, you know, I
couldn't do bodily fluid, so I couldn't be a doctor.
And I'm good with numbers, but I didn't want to
be an accountant and so on. But I was trained
to learn, uh, to speak well, to write well, and
(09:32):
to make a cogent argument quickly, and all of those
things served me incredibly well on social media. You know,
Twitter is my platform of choice. Uh. Not only could
it not have happened at any other time, it couldn't
have happened on any other platform, right Instagram is mostly visual,
so it wouldn't have worked there. The hashtag wouldn't have
worked there. Facebook, you know, it's got a bad rap
(09:53):
and sometimes rightfully, so people wouldn't have heard about it
until months later. Uh, and so on TikTok didn't even
exists in So what I had already established is a
great community on Twitter who had invested in me, you know,
people who believed, um, what I had to say and
and who took stock in it. It. So I had
(10:16):
learned at that time, we didn't even have threads, uh,
you know, of tweets consecutively the way that we do now.
And so I knew that anything that I put on Twitter,
it had to fit in then a hundred and forty characters,
not even to eighty, right. It had to be something succinct,
so that if a newspaper outlet or a conservative who
(10:37):
didn't like me or whatever took one tweet, it would
stand alone. It wouldn't need a whole bunch of context
around it. And I don't know that people um that
all people put in the thought to what their online
persona looks like. You know, I want to be as
authentic as I can all the time. You get April
(10:58):
good or bad, good and bad, Uh, you know a
d p of the time. And I think that's important too,
that you're not trying to be one person online and
then you're a completely different person. My private life obviously
is private, but what I'm presenting to you is something
that I would say whether we're sitting in my living
room or if we are on a social media platform.
(11:20):
I'm curious. Uh. The other thing that happened is that
you know, just by happenstance or divine intervention, depending on
how you look at it is. The time that it
happened really was during a time where we started to
see tumult really raise itself. I mean, there's always been
(11:41):
racial tumult in this country, but we were starting to
see those wheels really churn, really churn. And because of that,
I think it put people like yourself and a few
others that I can think of, in a position again
to be because once the media finds you and they
like you, they do give you a position to be
(12:02):
a spokesperson for a particular people. Um, how has it
been for you to be thrust into that position now,
to get calls and to speak for and again in
quotes us um, for a myriad of issues. I want
to push back on that a little bit because I
(12:23):
don't claim that. Uh, you know, black people are not
a monolith, and so the things that I say, you
may not agree with all of them. Other people may
not agree with all of them. So what I am
doing is providing my perspective. Uh and and uh, you know,
I I think it's unfortunate that black folks specifically get
lumped together as if you know, there's one person who
(12:46):
can speak for all things. You know, I think back
and I am not comparing myself by any means, but
I think it back to the Civil rights movement. There
was you know MLK, Martin Luther King, and there was
Malcolm X and eventually they got very you know, very
close together. But people were initially that there were two
different factions, and the media and the government played up
those factions. Right, you had to be either one or
(13:06):
the other, and you couldn't be both. I want to
operate from a both and possibility. Uh you know. So
I am providing the perspective that I have based on
my years on the planet and based on the community
that I talked to on social media regular everyday, people
who you know pay their fifteen or twenty dollars to
sit in a dark in theater you know pre covid
(13:28):
or you know streaming services now right, Um, But I
don't say that I speak for everyone because I agree
with you. But we also know how this game works
and the idea that the media gives us all tags. Right,
and so as I said, what the media will do
unfairly is they will call a black person to speak
(13:53):
on an issue. In your instance, in your case, you
were introduced to them as a as an entertainment person,
again in quotes. But they'll call you for other things
now that have absolutely nothing to do with entertainment, simply
because you're a black face. They know you're good on television,
they know that you'll give a good sound bite. So
(14:13):
there is a certain responsibility, not that you sought, but
that has been delivered to you because of this. Yes, yes,
and and that happens a lot. My responsibility when that
happens is to ensure that I'm the right person to
speak on that issue, uh, you know, and not just
say oh yeah, I get to be on TV again.
You know. Let me talk to whomever it's you know,
(14:35):
this isn't my subject. Um. You know, I don't have
expertise here, but because of the community I have curated, um,
you know over these past ten years. Let me turn
you on to somebody who can, you know. So, if
you're calling me to speak about um, black folks in
the queer community, I'm not queer. I'm not part of
the l g B t Q plus community. So that's
(14:56):
not me and it's not my place to speak on
behalf of a community to which I do not belong. Uh,
and so I will direct you to Dr David Johns,
who is you know, the National Black Justice Coalition founder,
right and so and there are you know, there are
other areas where, you know, if you talk to me
about environmental issues, I can tell you what I think.
(15:19):
But if you're looking for stats and data, that's not
gonna be me. So you know, I I give you
over to Dr Diana Johnson, a brilliant black uh micro
mirroring biologists. Right. So, I think it's our responsibility, those
of us who have platforms, to stay in our lane
as much as we can, you know, talk about the
things that you know about, but also lift as you
(15:40):
climb um and and give to others those opportunities that
may not be right for you. When we come back,
April on the new interest in black media content since
the George Floyd murder isn't a sea change or just
a meaning trend, Plus why she decided to go public
(16:04):
with what many see as a very private matter since
her viral hashtag oscar so white, April Rain has been
in the forefront of bringing more diversity to media and corporations.
(16:28):
Since the murder of George Floyd. There had been a
change in the winds, many media companies became more interested
in content for and about people of color. Corporations across
the board talked more about diversity and more equitable opportunities,
and they threw a lot of money at the quote
(16:49):
issue end quote. But was this earnest or just a
temporary window dressing for white guilt. I want to ask
you about something that talked about often and I you know,
it was quick to tell people in our industry that, um,
you know, get it while the getting is good, because
that window was going to be closed. And that's the
(17:11):
white guilt that we saw quite frankly after the murder
of George Floyd. Uh, it was as if you know,
they were just handing out stuff to black people left
and right. Again, some of it great, and some of it,
as we're starting to see, was delivered to folks that
really probably should not have gotten it, uh, including for
content creation. I'm curious how you've taken a look at, um,
(17:35):
the entertainment industry as it has morphed to this point,
um after the death of George Floyd and the reckoning
that came because of that, and whether you see it
as something that is here to stay or whether um,
you lean a bit towards me uh in that I
don't know. I don't know if it's here to stay.
(17:57):
It's curious how you see it. I think the pendulum
is already swinging back, uh the the other way. Unfortunately,
you know, I don't think it's sustainable. And that tells
me that those folks who were you know, pro black
people in the summer, weren't really serious about it, you know,
they they it sounded good, uh and it made for
good copy, for good press, but it wasn't sustainable. And
(18:21):
so that's some of the work that I'm doing now.
How can you be intentionally inclusive? How can you be
um for uh things that matter to black and brown
folks all year long, not just during Black History Month,
you know. And and it's difficult because so many brands, corporations,
organizations want to throw money at it. You know, let's
(18:42):
just do this thing and we'll look good and it's
fine and let's move on. And so then I say, okay,
but you know, what does your c suite look like?
What are your retention levels of people from the global majority?
What are you actually doing to make change or is
this just a out? You know, you throwing money and
an issue because again that's not sustainable and even the
(19:05):
money that they were throwing is not the same money
that they're throwing in two. So I think you were
absolutely right to tell people to get what they could
when when they could, because it's drying up. How do
we break that cycle? Because I've seen it even prior
to George Floyd's death that whatever you know, event happened
(19:26):
to quote unquote black folks that brought the guilt out
to your point, it was throw them some money and
then they'll be happy and we can move on. Uh.
There is a question of the age old notion of
until we own we're going to be here. Yet, if
(19:47):
you look at the disparity in terms of money between
a black production and a white production, and just the
sheer wealth gap in America, it's very hard to compete
without white money at an a level, if you will,
in entertainment. When you look at all of that, and
I know you've studied it, um, how do you see
(20:10):
that as something that can be looked at positively? Because
I often wilt a bit when I think about it,
because what we're doing is we're demanding from people that
don't really want us at the party. Truth be told,
it's difficult. Uh. What gives me encouragement are people who
(20:32):
say they're no longer waiting for a seat at the table.
They're creating their own mansion and putting their own table
in it. So obviously at the top of that list
is Tyler Perry. And regardless of whether you enjoy his
movies or not, you cannot shake his business acumen, right.
And so he has created his own studio so that
he can he can promote, he can make, he can produce,
(20:55):
he can write the movies and the TV shows that
he wants to see and also provide um services and
space to others. So part of Black Panther was filmed
at Tyler Perry Studios in Atlanta, Right, I think about
Will Will Packer, Ava du Verney obviously, um and so,
and there are other black and brown artists, creators, actors
(21:20):
who are creating their own production company and saying this
is the work that we want to see, We're going
to put our money behind it. Jordan Peel and Monkey
Paul Productions. Uh. And so there are opportunities out there.
It is harder, yes, uh. And and it can also
again be a both and you know you understand that,
you know, black folks are in vogue again, and you know,
(21:41):
we want to make this movie. Give us some money
to make this movie. Let us partner with you on
that um, but allow us to keep the creative control,
which is incredibly important. Are you as optimistic or are
you optimistic at all when we talk about the finality
of that road, and that is the actual ability to
distribute the content. Because at the end of the day,
(22:05):
until we get there, even with the great things that
Tyler has done and Will is done and was what
Ava Ava is doing, and Oprah has done, and you know,
we can go down the list, they still have one
more hurdle to go over to get it to all
of us. It it's difficult and and that's the worst part.
(22:25):
You know, Ava was very vocal and the fact that
you know her the production company said yes, go make SMA,
make this beautiful film, but didn't support it all the
way through, didn't distribute, you know, And so when it
came time for awards season, folks weren't getting the screeners
because they said, Okay, we've done our part. But you're
(22:47):
absolutely right, it has to be full circle. You have
to get the film out, you have to support it,
and especially when we when it comes to awards season,
those big production companies, the movie studios have to make
decisions about how much money they're going to a lot
to promoting each film based on whether they think it's
(23:07):
going to win. So if they don't buy into the
fact that people are going to see Black Aren't Um
and that it can win awards, then there's not going
to be any money or very little money shuttled over there.
And that's unfortunate because they're not seeing it through. And
again it feels like, um, you know, they're throwing money
at the issue, but not enough because they're not following through.
(23:29):
They're not being intentionally inclusive all the way through the process.
And so we need an entertainment. We need a lot
of different things. We we need better distribution, We need
more people of color as film critics. Right, you know,
I'm of the age. I know you are too. Ciscal
and Ebert would give their two thumbs up or not,
and if they didn't, then that movie was dead in
(23:51):
the water. Well, I don't know that their sensibility, the
things that they're interested in as white men, as old
and white men, is the same as mine. You know,
are they going to enjoy Girls Trip as much as
I did? Right? And so why should I listen to
them and say and say, oh, well, they didn't like it,
I'm not gonna like it either. And that's why it's
(24:11):
important to have diverse viewpoints with respect of film criticism
and TV as well. We turned our attention to other
areas of concern for a moment. Rain has been more
than an activist for a more diverse entertainment landscape. Long
before her hashtag went viral, she was fighting for equality
(24:32):
in many areas. I asked her about what her feeling
is about the fight to keep the gains already made
in this country around race and more diversity and the
tenuous place democracy sits in today. I think we're at
a crossroads and and that's why I am one of
(24:53):
the co founders of She Will Rise, which is the
only black woman led, created and led organization aations specifically
focused on the nomination and confirmation of black women throughout
the federal judiciary, including the Supreme Courts. So we had
a wonderful win with Katanji Brown Jackson recently. But there's more.
There are more black women in the pipeline. Uh. I
(25:16):
think this country is as fractured um as it has
been in the last fifty years, if not more so.
And so we all have to think about how we
can become more active and make change. One of the
things that we can do is vote in every election,
you know, presidential on down. You know, this is not
(25:38):
an election year for president, but it is an incredibly
important election year. Right, all of the House of Representatives
is up, and a third of the Senators up, and
as importantly, all of your local elections may be happening
this year. So you know, yes, we can talk about
Roe versus wade um and climate change and all of
those things, and they're all incredibly important. But what is
(26:00):
also important is who is sitting on your school board
and deciding what books your kids are going to read. Uh?
You know, who is your sheriff and what is his
view on pulling over a black son like mine because
they think he shouldn't be driving in that type of car, right,
And so it's important that we stay involved. So yes,
(26:21):
inclusion up and down the line, not just an entertainment
but everywhere, including in politics. Uh. And and it's very
clear that not all skin folk or kin folk. Right.
So we don't want to just elect people because they're
black or brown. We want to elect them because they
share our values. And that's incredibly important when you're going
(26:42):
into that booth or you know, mailing in your ballot,
because we need to be thoughtful about who is going
to best represent us. And so I think that's what's
most important that we all can do a little bit more,
um to create the country that we would like to
see that we have been done for so long. I
think it's very important that you connected the dots because
(27:04):
oft too often people don't connect the dots to voting
to the outcome of how you deal with life on
a day to day uh, particularly when you talk about um,
federal appointments and lifetime appointments. And you know my contention is, um,
you know, a position at the Supreme Court is I
would argue, even more important than who you elect as
(27:26):
president because that person is only going to stay there
for eight years at best. Uh. And so we've got
to start connecting those dots. Let me take you to
one other thing before I go back to your content creation.
I hope you don't mind this, but and I wouldn't
have done this obviously I wouldn't have known, but certainly
when you put it out there and you said earlier,
and I thought it was interesting my personal life as
my personal life, and then you went on to talk
(27:48):
about the things that you're doing professionally. But you bravely
I think, put up something the other day because of
what's going on in this nation with Row versus Wade,
and I'm I'm curious why you decided to suggest that
you had had at one time an abortion and uh,
you know, hearkening back to when you and I grew up,
(28:11):
that was one of those things and you alluded to
this that you just didn't talk about. I'm curious why
you decided to speak out on that in such a
public way. And I thought it was interesting that you said,
we can't continue to be ashamed or hide this. We
need to deal with this publicly. Yes, I have had
(28:33):
an abortion. I UM. I think it was important because
of the platform that I have, because it is my
responsibility to talk about these issues. Um, because I think
that people will listen to me. Just based on the
numbers of people. Yeah, I think I have like a
hundred and ninety followers on Twitter, as an obscene number
(28:54):
but as you alluded to, that gets played right, that
that means something too of media or whatever. And so
when I say something good or bad, and I have
tripped up and fallen many many times, uh, it gets
more noticed. Is so, I believe that abortion is a
medical procedure that women have, just as we get our
(29:15):
breast examined every year, just as we have, um, you know,
once we become once everyone becomes a certain age, you
should get a colonoscopy a medical procedure, right, And and
it was a choice that I made for me, and
I think that we need, we all the country needs
to be more open about what it is and what
it isn't. I think patriarchy and uh, you know, Christianity
(29:40):
and a whole bunch of other things have made women
feel ashamed for making the choice that is best for them.
And that's that's unfortunate because what we know is that
unfortunately too often those people who say that they are
pro life are really anti abortion, right, and so we
should we should be honest about that because once the
(30:02):
child comes into the world, they're not helping that child
or that mother you know there and then they will
rail on folks for being on welfare or assistance or whatever,
and it's like, well, you know, how is she supposed
to feed her child? Right? And and they and and
social services are underfunded uh if and underutilized if at all. Uh.
(30:23):
It's so, I think it's important that we be honest
about things. UM. We should not be ashamed of medical procedures.
And we need people who are in positions of power,
just as several congress people have come forward and said
that they also had abortions, to be honest about it,
so that women who choose to make these really important
(30:48):
and personal decisions, UM, can do so without threat of
violence or prison or or anything else. Because I know
that had I chosen differently, my life would not be
what it is now. I you know, I was not
ready and and there are you know, it's it's there
are different reasons why women choose to have abortion, and
(31:10):
sometimes it's medically required. You know, it's either the mother
will die or uh, you know this is going to happen.
And I think that we just need to be more
honest about the conversation, regardless of whether one agrees with
it or not. You know, how can you say that
you you disagree with me getting my teeth cleaned, right?
(31:30):
How is that your business? You know? How can you
disagree with me UM, you know, having an endoscopy because
my tummy it feels a little weird. If that's not
your business, then an abortion shouldn't be your business either.
We closed by circling back to media content created by
African Americans and what she's doing to ensure more space
(31:50):
for people of color in that arena. Most importantly, what
I'm doing is working for UH, an organization called Gauge
g a U g UH and they are part of
Values Partnership, And what we are working on is UM
having difficult conversations with corporations, brands, movie studios, TV networks,
(32:13):
just as I mentioned earlier about how to make the
right decisions on issues that affect culture. So UM. Most recently,
there was a big box store I won't give the
name who decided that they were going to put out
an ice cream for June teeth and it didn't make
a lot of sense. Uh. And you know, and and
(32:36):
I can think of a couple A couple of years ago,
there was a particular soda company who UM had a
very well known female spokesperson. They did a huge commercial
that I think was filmed in Abu Dhabi or something,
and the premise was that she was going to solve
racism by taking a sipisoda and high fiving a cop right. Uh.
And and so when we see these things, when the
(32:59):
commune and he sees these things, the question is always
who prove that, you know, how many different levels layers
of approval that this have to go through where there
was not one person of color, one person in that
community in the room, and not just in the room,
but who had the authority to say this isn't going
to work, this is going to backfire. Let's do something else.
(33:22):
And so that's what Gage does. We put people in
the room. We do UM rapid response market research. Uh.
You can talk to influencers like me and others and
just you know, put your ad out there. So we've
worked with Procter and Gamble, for example, We've worked with
Stephora Um. I am an equity advisor with Sephora now
(33:45):
UM so that they don't make these type of unfo
unforced errors because when they happen, you know, you can
pull the you know, you can pull the ice cream
off the shelves, you can pull the TV ad down,
but it's already out there in the zeit guys, and
what we know as that the Internet last forever, right,
and so these means to create it. And so not
only do you lose um potential, market share and money,
(34:08):
but you know through all of the stuff that you
now have to throw away, but you also lose um
influence within that particular community. You lose standing and you
have to build that back up over time. And so
if on the front end you're talking to the right people,
the people who are going to be most impacted, then
you're not going to make these kind of mistakes. Uh.
(34:30):
And so it's better to work with Gauge at the
beginning than at the at the back end, when we're
trying to help you clean clean up a pr mass. Well, April,
if I could paraphrase Gil Scott heron, you know, those
who control their image control their world, and you know,
image is so so very important. I appreciate all the
work you're you're doing to uh, you know, keep those
(34:52):
companies and corporations righteous as best we can, and I
think it's so very important. Thank you for joining us.
Appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. This
was lovely one hundred is produced by ed Gordon Media
and distributed by I Heart Media. Carol Johnson Green and
Sharie Weldon are our bookers. Our editor is Lance Patton.
(35:16):
Gerald Albright composed and performed our theme. Please join me
on Twitter and Instagram at ed L Gordon and on
Facebook at ed Gordon Media
Welcome to the latest edition of one hundred The Ed
Gordon Podcast. Today a conversation with activist April Ray Rain
gained international attention after her hashtag oscar so white that
spoke to the lack of diversity and Academy Award nominations
went viral. The tweet struck a chord not just in
(00:44):
the industry, but around the world. It thrust the campaign
finance lawyer into a white hot spotlight and took her
from relative anonymity to celebrity overnight. I think people just
thought of you as someone who had a clever hashtag
and it ran from there, but knew very little about
(01:06):
the career you had prior to that, and that is
that you were a campaign finance lawyer for fifteen years.
Tell me a little bit about a what you were
doing up until the hashtag and how the hashtag really
almost overnight, changed to your life. I would suspect absolutely,
and thank you first of all and for having me
(01:27):
on today. I'm very excited to be with you. Um I,
as you mentioned, I was a campaign finance lawyer following
the money as everyone does in that business, and so
part of my job was looking at professional legislative political
campaigns and ensuring that people were doing all the right
(01:48):
things that they should have. It was not interesting work.
It absolutely did not fill my soul. Um. As you
know in theory, that's what we want our jobs to do,
if we have to work at all, right, uh. And
so I had been looking for another outlet for my creativity.
So initially I became a writer on Broadway Black dot com,
(02:11):
which is an online celebration of black folks on and
off the Broadway stage. And that was great. And eventually
I became um a managing editor of Broadway Black, which
allowed me to work with other writers and um ensure
that their writing was tight and strong, and we were
covering things like no one else did. We covered the
(02:34):
Tony Awards and everything um. And we understood that it
was important to highlight the black and brown folks that
are on stage because unfortunately, there aren't that many of them,
and they don't get the attention they deserve. So I
was doing all of that while still working full time.
And I was in my family room on that fateful
(02:55):
morning at January of and I was in my family
room because I love the oscars, I love all kinds
of entertainment. Stage and Film and Screen. Uh. And I
found out that Chris Hemsworth, the guy that plays Four
in the m c U, was one of the presenters.
And I said, you know what, I need to have
four in HD on the biggest screen in my house
(03:19):
because Thore today was wearing a suit. Uh. So I
was in the family room getting dressed as opposed in
my bedroom, and I was listening to him and his
co presenter, and it struck me that category after category
there were no people of color nominated for any of
the films. And so that's twenty slots, right, best Actor
and actress and Best Supporting Actor and actress. And if
(03:40):
we remember films, so we're talking about Selma, they're talking
about Beyond the Lights. Um. There were so many great
performances that year. And so I picked up my phone,
which is typically embedded in my forearm. I jumped on Twitter,
which is my social media platform of choice, and I said,
one tweet, Oscar is so white they asked to touch
(04:01):
my hair? Uh. And that was it. I went on
to work as a campaign finance attorney. I checked in
on Twitter around lunchtime, and based on that one tweet,
the hashtag was trending around the world. UH. And then
I had to make a decision, what does it look like?
This was not my first viral hashtag, it would not
be my last. And as everyone knows, hashtags come and
(04:22):
go every hour every day, one has to choose whether
they're going to sort of give it life. And UH
it was clear to me. Although the first responses to
Oscar so White were as petty and snarky as I
was being, UH, the conversation UH shifted into something much
more substantive about the lack of equity and representation in
(04:43):
Hollywood as a whole, both in front of and behind
the camera. And so for the last you're absolutely right
that this has changed my life. I stopped practicing law,
I moved away from where I was in the d
C area. UH, and nothing, as Drake would say, was
the same. UH. And so now for the past seven
or eight years since Oscar so White, I have been
(05:04):
working on the outskirts of the entertainment industry with brands
and companies and networks and TV shows, UH, to help
them if they're serious about it, because not always are
they about being more intentionally inclusive up and down the line,
in front of and behind the camera. Or screen. Let
me ask you this, I would suspect, particularly from filling
(05:28):
your soul as you put it, Um, this was something
all be a very random, uh, something that you can appreciate.
But going from relative anonymity to someone who the next
day was getting calls from every television network that you
can think of, Uh, that can be very daunting at times.
(05:50):
Give me a sense of what you were feeling when
this became even more than just a trending hashtag. Sure,
the first thing was fear, because you know again I was, yeah, absolutely,
because I was just a movie goer like everyone else.
I didn't have any training in the entertainment field, and
so I had to get up to speed with Okay,
(06:13):
well how white are the oscars? You know? So a
lot of research had to be done very quickly. You've
put this out there, you've made this claim. Can you
back it up? And sadly, you know, the stats are
even worse than I realized at the time. So I was.
And then it was after I got over that. The
initial fear it was is this sustainable? Because hashtags don't
(06:33):
pay the mortgage? And so you know, what am I
going to do? Can I make a career out of this. Um,
I have no problem saying I'm fifty two years old.
When I was in high school in the mid and
late eighties, Uh, if you wanted to be a professional,
that meant four things. Engineer, doctor, lawyer, accountant. Right, you
(06:54):
could not create your own career as so many millennials
and gen Z's due to their cre it, uh you know.
And and it was pounded into me that you get
that job, and you keep that job right again, you know,
and and you stay with it, and you show loyalty
unfortunately to organizations and jobs that don't always show it back.
And so then the question became, is this something Do
(07:16):
I take the leap and really make this change? And uh,
to my ex husband's credit, he was incredibly supportive, uh
you know, and and provided me that safety net and
can see how important this was to me and how
it it actually did film me. Uh. And so he said,
you know what, jump off, jump off the cliff, you know,
let me be your parachute. I got you. Uh And
(07:37):
and so here we are, let me ask you this.
And here's what's interesting to me. It couldn't have happened
any other time than the time we live in now
because of social media, and I think it's interesting because
what it does is it elevates someone like yourself who
had a particular background. I think that lends itself to
(07:58):
being able to do what you did, uh, you know, research,
really delve into it and thrust upon an idea, UM,
and present yourself knowledgeably. It also thrust people into positions
who now have a platform, who now oft times become
an overnight spokesman for not just themselves but by default
(08:23):
our community. UM that perhaps should not have that seat.
I'm wondering how you see that, because it really is
a double edged sword. And I don't have any qualms.
I'm sixty two, you're fifty two. I'm sixty two. In
August I will be. And it's interesting because I do
see the dynamic of the very plus side of social media,
(08:47):
but more than a lot of younger people, I do
see the downside of it in a way, and I
am not afraid to, sometimes at the risk of being canceled, uh,
pushback against it. So I'm curious how how you see that.
It's difficult, you know, I absolutely agree with you that
being not necessarily being a lawyer, but having been trained
(09:10):
to be a lawyer, Uh, was incredibly helpful. You know,
I knew that I was going to go to law
school when I was in high school. And part of
that was because, Uh, first of all, you know, I
couldn't do bodily fluid, so I couldn't be a doctor.
And I'm good with numbers, but I didn't want to
be an accountant and so on. But I was trained
to learn, uh, to speak well, to write well, and
(09:32):
to make a cogent argument quickly, and all of those
things served me incredibly well on social media. You know,
Twitter is my platform of choice. Uh. Not only could
it not have happened at any other time, it couldn't
have happened on any other platform, right Instagram is mostly visual,
so it wouldn't have worked there. The hashtag wouldn't have
worked there. Facebook, you know, it's got a bad rap
(09:53):
and sometimes rightfully, so people wouldn't have heard about it
until months later. Uh, and so on TikTok didn't even
exists in So what I had already established is a
great community on Twitter who had invested in me, you know,
people who believed, um, what I had to say and
and who took stock in it. It. So I had
(10:16):
learned at that time, we didn't even have threads, uh,
you know, of tweets consecutively the way that we do now.
And so I knew that anything that I put on Twitter,
it had to fit in then a hundred and forty characters,
not even to eighty, right. It had to be something succinct,
so that if a newspaper outlet or a conservative who
(10:37):
didn't like me or whatever took one tweet, it would
stand alone. It wouldn't need a whole bunch of context
around it. And I don't know that people um that
all people put in the thought to what their online
persona looks like. You know, I want to be as
authentic as I can all the time. You get April
(10:58):
good or bad, good and bad, Uh, you know a
d p of the time. And I think that's important too,
that you're not trying to be one person online and
then you're a completely different person. My private life obviously
is private, but what I'm presenting to you is something
that I would say whether we're sitting in my living
room or if we are on a social media platform.
(11:20):
I'm curious. Uh. The other thing that happened is that
you know, just by happenstance or divine intervention, depending on
how you look at it is. The time that it
happened really was during a time where we started to
see tumult really raise itself. I mean, there's always been
(11:41):
racial tumult in this country, but we were starting to
see those wheels really churn, really churn. And because of that,
I think it put people like yourself and a few
others that I can think of, in a position again
to be because once the media finds you and they
like you, they do give you a position to be
(12:02):
a spokesperson for a particular people. Um, how has it
been for you to be thrust into that position now,
to get calls and to speak for and again in
quotes us um, for a myriad of issues. I want
to push back on that a little bit because I
(12:23):
don't claim that. Uh, you know, black people are not
a monolith, and so the things that I say, you
may not agree with all of them. Other people may
not agree with all of them. So what I am
doing is providing my perspective. Uh and and uh, you know,
I I think it's unfortunate that black folks specifically get
lumped together as if you know, there's one person who
(12:46):
can speak for all things. You know, I think back
and I am not comparing myself by any means, but
I think it back to the Civil rights movement. There
was you know MLK, Martin Luther King, and there was
Malcolm X and eventually they got very you know, very
close together. But people were initially that there were two
different factions, and the media and the government played up
those factions. Right, you had to be either one or
(13:06):
the other, and you couldn't be both. I want to
operate from a both and possibility. Uh you know. So
I am providing the perspective that I have based on
my years on the planet and based on the community
that I talked to on social media regular everyday, people
who you know pay their fifteen or twenty dollars to
sit in a dark in theater you know pre covid
(13:28):
or you know streaming services now right, Um, But I
don't say that I speak for everyone because I agree
with you. But we also know how this game works
and the idea that the media gives us all tags. Right,
and so as I said, what the media will do
unfairly is they will call a black person to speak
(13:53):
on an issue. In your instance, in your case, you
were introduced to them as a as an entertainment person,
again in quotes. But they'll call you for other things
now that have absolutely nothing to do with entertainment, simply
because you're a black face. They know you're good on television,
they know that you'll give a good sound bite. So
(14:13):
there is a certain responsibility, not that you sought, but
that has been delivered to you because of this. Yes, yes,
and and that happens a lot. My responsibility when that
happens is to ensure that I'm the right person to
speak on that issue, uh, you know, and not just
say oh yeah, I get to be on TV again.
You know. Let me talk to whomever it's you know,
(14:35):
this isn't my subject. Um. You know, I don't have
expertise here, but because of the community I have curated, um,
you know over these past ten years. Let me turn
you on to somebody who can, you know. So, if
you're calling me to speak about um, black folks in
the queer community, I'm not queer. I'm not part of
the l g B t Q plus community. So that's
(14:56):
not me and it's not my place to speak on
behalf of a community to which I do not belong. Uh,
and so I will direct you to Dr David Johns,
who is you know, the National Black Justice Coalition founder,
right and so and there are you know, there are
other areas where, you know, if you talk to me
about environmental issues, I can tell you what I think.
(15:19):
But if you're looking for stats and data, that's not
gonna be me. So you know, I I give you
over to Dr Diana Johnson, a brilliant black uh micro
mirroring biologists. Right. So, I think it's our responsibility, those
of us who have platforms, to stay in our lane
as much as we can, you know, talk about the
things that you know about, but also lift as you
(15:40):
climb um and and give to others those opportunities that
may not be right for you. When we come back,
April on the new interest in black media content since
the George Floyd murder isn't a sea change or just
a meaning trend, Plus why she decided to go public
(16:04):
with what many see as a very private matter since
her viral hashtag oscar so white, April Rain has been
in the forefront of bringing more diversity to media and corporations.
(16:28):
Since the murder of George Floyd. There had been a
change in the winds, many media companies became more interested
in content for and about people of color. Corporations across
the board talked more about diversity and more equitable opportunities,
and they threw a lot of money at the quote
(16:49):
issue end quote. But was this earnest or just a
temporary window dressing for white guilt. I want to ask
you about something that talked about often and I you know,
it was quick to tell people in our industry that, um,
you know, get it while the getting is good, because
that window was going to be closed. And that's the
(17:11):
white guilt that we saw quite frankly after the murder
of George Floyd. Uh, it was as if you know,
they were just handing out stuff to black people left
and right. Again, some of it great, and some of it,
as we're starting to see, was delivered to folks that
really probably should not have gotten it, uh, including for
content creation. I'm curious how you've taken a look at, um,
(17:35):
the entertainment industry as it has morphed to this point,
um after the death of George Floyd and the reckoning
that came because of that, and whether you see it
as something that is here to stay or whether um,
you lean a bit towards me uh in that I
don't know. I don't know if it's here to stay.
(17:57):
It's curious how you see it. I think the pendulum
is already swinging back, uh the the other way. Unfortunately,
you know, I don't think it's sustainable. And that tells
me that those folks who were you know, pro black
people in the summer, weren't really serious about it, you know,
they they it sounded good, uh and it made for
good copy, for good press, but it wasn't sustainable. And
(18:21):
so that's some of the work that I'm doing now.
How can you be intentionally inclusive? How can you be
um for uh things that matter to black and brown
folks all year long, not just during Black History Month,
you know. And and it's difficult because so many brands, corporations,
organizations want to throw money at it. You know, let's
(18:42):
just do this thing and we'll look good and it's
fine and let's move on. And so then I say, okay,
but you know, what does your c suite look like?
What are your retention levels of people from the global majority?
What are you actually doing to make change or is
this just a out? You know, you throwing money and
an issue because again that's not sustainable and even the
(19:05):
money that they were throwing is not the same money
that they're throwing in two. So I think you were
absolutely right to tell people to get what they could
when when they could, because it's drying up. How do
we break that cycle? Because I've seen it even prior
to George Floyd's death that whatever you know, event happened
(19:26):
to quote unquote black folks that brought the guilt out
to your point, it was throw them some money and
then they'll be happy and we can move on. Uh.
There is a question of the age old notion of
until we own we're going to be here. Yet, if
(19:47):
you look at the disparity in terms of money between
a black production and a white production, and just the
sheer wealth gap in America, it's very hard to compete
without white money at an a level, if you will,
in entertainment. When you look at all of that, and
I know you've studied it, um, how do you see
(20:10):
that as something that can be looked at positively? Because
I often wilt a bit when I think about it,
because what we're doing is we're demanding from people that
don't really want us at the party. Truth be told,
it's difficult. Uh. What gives me encouragement are people who
(20:32):
say they're no longer waiting for a seat at the table.
They're creating their own mansion and putting their own table
in it. So obviously at the top of that list
is Tyler Perry. And regardless of whether you enjoy his
movies or not, you cannot shake his business acumen, right.
And so he has created his own studio so that
he can he can promote, he can make, he can produce,
(20:55):
he can write the movies and the TV shows that
he wants to see and also provide um services and
space to others. So part of Black Panther was filmed
at Tyler Perry Studios in Atlanta, Right, I think about
Will Will Packer, Ava du Verney obviously, um and so,
and there are other black and brown artists, creators, actors
(21:20):
who are creating their own production company and saying this
is the work that we want to see, We're going
to put our money behind it. Jordan Peel and Monkey
Paul Productions. Uh. And so there are opportunities out there.
It is harder, yes, uh. And and it can also
again be a both and you know you understand that,
you know, black folks are in vogue again, and you know,
(21:41):
we want to make this movie. Give us some money
to make this movie. Let us partner with you on
that um, but allow us to keep the creative control,
which is incredibly important. Are you as optimistic or are
you optimistic at all when we talk about the finality
of that road, and that is the actual ability to
distribute the content. Because at the end of the day,
(22:05):
until we get there, even with the great things that
Tyler has done and Will is done and was what
Ava Ava is doing, and Oprah has done, and you know,
we can go down the list, they still have one
more hurdle to go over to get it to all
of us. It it's difficult and and that's the worst part.
(22:25):
You know, Ava was very vocal and the fact that
you know her the production company said yes, go make SMA,
make this beautiful film, but didn't support it all the
way through, didn't distribute, you know, And so when it
came time for awards season, folks weren't getting the screeners
because they said, Okay, we've done our part. But you're
(22:47):
absolutely right, it has to be full circle. You have
to get the film out, you have to support it,
and especially when we when it comes to awards season,
those big production companies, the movie studios have to make
decisions about how much money they're going to a lot
to promoting each film based on whether they think it's
(23:07):
going to win. So if they don't buy into the
fact that people are going to see Black Aren't Um
and that it can win awards, then there's not going
to be any money or very little money shuttled over there.
And that's unfortunate because they're not seeing it through. And
again it feels like, um, you know, they're throwing money
at the issue, but not enough because they're not following through.
(23:29):
They're not being intentionally inclusive all the way through the process.
And so we need an entertainment. We need a lot
of different things. We we need better distribution, We need
more people of color as film critics. Right, you know,
I'm of the age. I know you are too. Ciscal
and Ebert would give their two thumbs up or not,
and if they didn't, then that movie was dead in
(23:51):
the water. Well, I don't know that their sensibility, the
things that they're interested in as white men, as old
and white men, is the same as mine. You know,
are they going to enjoy Girls Trip as much as
I did? Right? And so why should I listen to
them and say and say, oh, well, they didn't like it,
I'm not gonna like it either. And that's why it's
(24:11):
important to have diverse viewpoints with respect of film criticism
and TV as well. We turned our attention to other
areas of concern for a moment. Rain has been more
than an activist for a more diverse entertainment landscape. Long
before her hashtag went viral, she was fighting for equality
(24:32):
in many areas. I asked her about what her feeling
is about the fight to keep the gains already made
in this country around race and more diversity and the
tenuous place democracy sits in today. I think we're at
a crossroads and and that's why I am one of
(24:53):
the co founders of She Will Rise, which is the
only black woman led, created and led organization aations specifically
focused on the nomination and confirmation of black women throughout
the federal judiciary, including the Supreme Courts. So we had
a wonderful win with Katanji Brown Jackson recently. But there's more.
There are more black women in the pipeline. Uh. I
(25:16):
think this country is as fractured um as it has
been in the last fifty years, if not more so.
And so we all have to think about how we
can become more active and make change. One of the
things that we can do is vote in every election,
you know, presidential on down. You know, this is not
(25:38):
an election year for president, but it is an incredibly
important election year. Right, all of the House of Representatives
is up, and a third of the Senators up, and
as importantly, all of your local elections may be happening
this year. So you know, yes, we can talk about
Roe versus wade um and climate change and all of
those things, and they're all incredibly important. But what is
(26:00):
also important is who is sitting on your school board
and deciding what books your kids are going to read. Uh?
You know, who is your sheriff and what is his
view on pulling over a black son like mine because
they think he shouldn't be driving in that type of car, right,
And so it's important that we stay involved. So yes,
(26:21):
inclusion up and down the line, not just an entertainment
but everywhere, including in politics. Uh. And and it's very
clear that not all skin folk or kin folk. Right.
So we don't want to just elect people because they're
black or brown. We want to elect them because they
share our values. And that's incredibly important when you're going
(26:42):
into that booth or you know, mailing in your ballot,
because we need to be thoughtful about who is going
to best represent us. And so I think that's what's
most important that we all can do a little bit more,
um to create the country that we would like to
see that we have been done for so long. I
think it's very important that you connected the dots because
(27:04):
oft too often people don't connect the dots to voting
to the outcome of how you deal with life on
a day to day uh, particularly when you talk about um,
federal appointments and lifetime appointments. And you know my contention is, um,
you know, a position at the Supreme Court is I
would argue, even more important than who you elect as
(27:26):
president because that person is only going to stay there
for eight years at best. Uh. And so we've got
to start connecting those dots. Let me take you to
one other thing before I go back to your content creation.
I hope you don't mind this, but and I wouldn't
have done this obviously I wouldn't have known, but certainly
when you put it out there and you said earlier,
and I thought it was interesting my personal life as
my personal life, and then you went on to talk
(27:48):
about the things that you're doing professionally. But you bravely
I think, put up something the other day because of
what's going on in this nation with Row versus Wade,
and I'm I'm curious why you decided to suggest that
you had had at one time an abortion and uh,
you know, hearkening back to when you and I grew up,
(28:11):
that was one of those things and you alluded to
this that you just didn't talk about. I'm curious why
you decided to speak out on that in such a
public way. And I thought it was interesting that you said,
we can't continue to be ashamed or hide this. We
need to deal with this publicly. Yes, I have had
(28:33):
an abortion. I UM. I think it was important because
of the platform that I have, because it is my
responsibility to talk about these issues. Um, because I think
that people will listen to me. Just based on the
numbers of people. Yeah, I think I have like a
hundred and ninety followers on Twitter, as an obscene number
(28:54):
but as you alluded to, that gets played right, that
that means something too of media or whatever. And so
when I say something good or bad, and I have
tripped up and fallen many many times, uh, it gets
more noticed. Is so, I believe that abortion is a
medical procedure that women have, just as we get our
(29:15):
breast examined every year, just as we have, um, you know,
once we become once everyone becomes a certain age, you
should get a colonoscopy a medical procedure, right, And and
it was a choice that I made for me, and
I think that we need, we all the country needs
to be more open about what it is and what
it isn't. I think patriarchy and uh, you know, Christianity
(29:40):
and a whole bunch of other things have made women
feel ashamed for making the choice that is best for them.
And that's that's unfortunate because what we know is that
unfortunately too often those people who say that they are
pro life are really anti abortion, right, and so we
should we should be honest about that because once the
(30:02):
child comes into the world, they're not helping that child
or that mother you know there and then they will
rail on folks for being on welfare or assistance or whatever,
and it's like, well, you know, how is she supposed
to feed her child? Right? And and they and and
social services are underfunded uh if and underutilized if at all. Uh.
(30:23):
It's so, I think it's important that we be honest
about things. UM. We should not be ashamed of medical procedures.
And we need people who are in positions of power,
just as several congress people have come forward and said
that they also had abortions, to be honest about it,
so that women who choose to make these really important
(30:48):
and personal decisions, UM, can do so without threat of
violence or prison or or anything else. Because I know
that had I chosen differently, my life would not be
what it is now. I you know, I was not
ready and and there are you know, it's it's there
are different reasons why women choose to have abortion, and
(31:10):
sometimes it's medically required. You know, it's either the mother
will die or uh, you know this is going to happen.
And I think that we just need to be more
honest about the conversation, regardless of whether one agrees with
it or not. You know, how can you say that
you you disagree with me getting my teeth cleaned, right?
(31:30):
How is that your business? You know? How can you
disagree with me UM, you know, having an endoscopy because
my tummy it feels a little weird. If that's not
your business, then an abortion shouldn't be your business either.
We closed by circling back to media content created by
African Americans and what she's doing to ensure more space
(31:50):
for people of color in that arena. Most importantly, what
I'm doing is working for UH, an organization called Gauge
g a U g UH and they are part of
Values Partnership, And what we are working on is UM
having difficult conversations with corporations, brands, movie studios, TV networks,
(32:13):
just as I mentioned earlier about how to make the
right decisions on issues that affect culture. So UM. Most recently,
there was a big box store I won't give the
name who decided that they were going to put out
an ice cream for June teeth and it didn't make
a lot of sense. Uh. And you know, and and
(32:36):
I can think of a couple A couple of years ago,
there was a particular soda company who UM had a
very well known female spokesperson. They did a huge commercial
that I think was filmed in Abu Dhabi or something,
and the premise was that she was going to solve
racism by taking a sipisoda and high fiving a cop right. Uh.
And and so when we see these things, when the
(32:59):
commune and he sees these things, the question is always
who prove that, you know, how many different levels layers
of approval that this have to go through where there
was not one person of color, one person in that
community in the room, and not just in the room,
but who had the authority to say this isn't going
to work, this is going to backfire. Let's do something else.
(33:22):
And so that's what Gage does. We put people in
the room. We do UM rapid response market research. Uh.
You can talk to influencers like me and others and
just you know, put your ad out there. So we've
worked with Procter and Gamble, for example, We've worked with
Stephora Um. I am an equity advisor with Sephora now
(33:45):
UM so that they don't make these type of unfo
unforced errors because when they happen, you know, you can
pull the you know, you can pull the ice cream
off the shelves, you can pull the TV ad down,
but it's already out there in the zeit guys, and
what we know as that the Internet last forever, right,
and so these means to create it. And so not
only do you lose um potential, market share and money,
(34:08):
but you know through all of the stuff that you
now have to throw away, but you also lose um
influence within that particular community. You lose standing and you
have to build that back up over time. And so
if on the front end you're talking to the right people,
the people who are going to be most impacted, then
you're not going to make these kind of mistakes. Uh.
(34:30):
And so it's better to work with Gauge at the
beginning than at the at the back end, when we're
trying to help you clean clean up a pr mass. Well, April,
if I could paraphrase Gil Scott heron, you know, those
who control their image control their world, and you know,
image is so so very important. I appreciate all the
work you're you're doing to uh, you know, keep those
(34:52):
companies and corporations righteous as best we can, and I
think it's so very important. Thank you for joining us.
Appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. This
was lovely one hundred is produced by ed Gordon Media
and distributed by I Heart Media. Carol Johnson Green and
Sharie Weldon are our bookers. Our editor is Lance Patton.
(35:16):
Gerald Albright composed and performed our theme. Please join me
on Twitter and Instagram at ed L Gordon and on
Facebook at ed Gordon Media
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.