November 10, 2025 • 30 mins
The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention – Western Pennsylvania Chapter is dedicated to saving lives and bringing hope to those affected by suicide. Through research, education, advocacy, and community programs, AFSP WPA works to raise awareness, support survivors of loss, and build a culture that prioritizes mental health and prevention.
From school programs to the annual “Out of the Darkness Walk” in Pittsburgh, the chapter connects families, volunteers, and professionals across the region with one shared mission — to stop suicide and bring light to the darkness of loss.
From school programs to the annual “Out of the Darkness Walk” in Pittsburgh, the chapter connects families, volunteers, and professionals across the region with one shared mission — to stop suicide and bring light to the darkness of loss.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
And welcome in.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This is a public affairs program shedding the light on
the interest, issues, and concerns of the greater Pittsburgh area.
Good morning, and good Sunday to you. My name is
Johnny Hartwell your host. My guest this morning is Doug Bishop,
who is the treasurer of the Western PA American Foundation
for Suicide Prevention.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Doug, good to see you again. How are you, sir?
I'm doing well. Joining good to see you too.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
All right, so this is the time of year that
you know, suicide prevention needs to be talked about.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Is that right? Yes, it is. It's what it needs
to be talked about all year alone. Yes, but maybe
a little bit more this time of year, we're getting
into the holidays can be a really difficult time for people.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Okay, let's talk about let me talk. Let's talk about
your organization first, sure, and then maybe your experience and
then we can talk about you know, suicide prevention. So
talk about the organization first of all.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Sure, it's the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. There are
chapters in all fifty states, including d C and Puerto Rico.
There's roughly seventy three chapters right now. We are the
Western Pennsylvania Chapter. We cover the twenty five counties in
the western part of the state. We're very active here.
(01:14):
That's a large area. It's a pretty large area sometimes
for us down here in Pittsburgh. The area road anywhere
you need to go, No, there is not welcome to
Western Pa. Right but we are a pretty busy chapter.
We just had our annual fundraising walk here in Pittsburgh
(01:35):
back in early September. We do that. We have a
time in the spring for campus walks of all the colleges.
We also are heavily involved in things like research. AFSP
is the largest private funder of research for suicide prevention
(01:56):
in the country. We also get involved as advocacies, so
we are going to Washington, d c. And harris Berg
and all the other state coupois to try to get
some laws passed moved forward. We also offer education programs
which we're going to talk about a little bit later today,
and they're all free. We are happy to put them
(02:16):
on for basically anybody, anytime, anyplace. And we also have
another event coming up later this month. And I are
what we call loss and Healing or post vention and
is there for people that have lost them with the
suicide and they just need to meet with other people
that are unfortunately in that same group.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
It pains my heart the thing that we need an
organization like yours, But we do need an organization like you,
we do.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I mentioned this to a lot of folks and they're
kind of stunned by the statistics. But the CDC, who
were now unfortunately too familiar with, puts out an annual
ranking of the top leading causes of death and in
this country, and the frightening part is the age groups
from fourteen up to about thirty four, it's the second
(03:07):
leading cause of death, and that's kind of staggering sometimes.
Now tell me your experience. My experience is I got
involved with AFSP back in twenty fourteen when I lost
my son to suicide. He was Alex was twenty one
at that point in January of twenty fourteen, and I
(03:28):
got involved by doing the walk in Pittsburgh, which we
just finished in September. Felt a lot of hope, a
lot of comfort, a lot of other people that have
gone through unfortunately the same thing, a member of the
club that nobody wants to be a member of, and
just felt comfortable with that and was encouraged to go
(03:49):
to their next big event, which is the one we're
having in a couple of weeks, which is the International
Survivors of Suicide Loss Event, and went to that event
and just the warmth in the room. They really understand
what we go through. They've studied it, they've researched it,
(04:09):
and they're there to provide hope.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
You know, suicide almost at one point was taboo. You
weren't going to talk about it. No, No, this isn't
something that we talk about. No, we're going to hold
that in. And it's organizations like yours and those events
that you that you had back in September that allows.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
People to to.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Get together and talk about it and realize they're not
alone going through the grief and the and the guilt
and everything that goes on with with that kind of.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Well, that's why the community walks that we do in
September are called out of the Darkness. We're wanting to
bring this topic out of the darkness and talk about it.
And one of our big educational programs is Talk Saves Lives.
So yes, it's very important to talk about it. It
does happen. Everybody has mental health Hopefully it's good. Sometimes
(05:01):
it isn't, and so we need to talk about it
like any other health issue.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Now, this is the time of year that concerns all
of us because of the the just the pressure of
the holidays, and so you do something special around Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
What do you guys do? Well? We have an event
that we have that's the Saturday before Thanksgiving. It is
the International Survivor of Suicide Loss Day, and this year's
out at a Inland township. I'm sorry, I don't remember
the hotel name, but if you look on fair website
it's there. You can register for that. It's a day
(05:39):
of hope for those that have lost somebody. We typically
have in the Pittsburgh area about seventy five or so attendees.
It's a tough event. We've experienced over one hundred sign up,
but then it comes to the day of the event
and it's difficult, and so we do have quite a
few of people that just can't get there. Understand that,
(06:00):
totally understand it, totally understand. You just hope that at
some point they can. I hope that if they can't, Yeah,
if they can't come this year, I hope to come
next year.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
You know, the walk, the coming out of the darkness.
It allows people to kind of realize that you're not
going through this experience alone. That it can be a
lonely experience.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Oh, it can be a very lonely, isolating experience. And
what we're trying to do is to change that. Sure.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And that's why I invite you as as often as
I possibly can, because I think it's it's important for
this community to start realizing it's not a taboo subject.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It shouldn't be a taboo subject. I like I've told
you before, I don't even like the term mental health.
It's health. It's just health. It's another organ in our body.
It needs taken care of, and we need to sometimes
medicate it and sometimes retrain it through therapy.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
You know, if somebody has a broken leg or is
diabetic exactly, you know, a professional health you know, and
you consult people, and we should do the same thing
with the brain.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I always do this. My reference is, you know, because
we do this right before Thanksgiving. Hey, you know, as
guys are out there playing the Turkey Bowl football, you know,
right before Thanksgiving, and you know, somebody hits us a
little too hard. Maybe we were in journey. Well, now
you've got an issue, you got to see somebody for it,
and you probably need some medication. Maybe you need some
pain or pain relief, or maybe you know you've got
(07:28):
some inflammation or whatever, so you take some medication. Well,
you might need to go to physical therapy too. Same
thing with your brain sometimes sometimes you just need some
medication and you need to retrain your brain. Think a
little bit differently, We talk a little bit differently, act
a little bit differently.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
All right, So you've given me quite a few things
to talk about. Should we go through this this laundry,
let's talk about perionatal period. Does suicide and perionatal lie?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Right? Our educational program, our most popular program is one
called Talk Saves Lives, and we've put this on very often.
Let's just put it that way on a on a
very regular basis, but there's different versions of it that
we can put on for specific topics, like parinatal period,
which is for women that are experiencing some postpartum depression.
(08:16):
So we've learned that you know, in the during pregnancy
or in the first twelve months postpartum is a tough
time for women. And we've got a program that can
maybe help you through some of those depressions, uh excuse me,
depressive times.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
And so many times, and for so many years, we
kind of dismissed women and their feelings after giving giving birth,
and we need to realize that this is a very
difficult time and you know and just say, oh, she's
she'll be she'll be fine. Well, sometimes they aren't fine
and they really need and so many times, as as men,
(08:52):
we we kind of uh screw it up.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Well, you know, let me defend men.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, first of all, as a small child, we are
kind of taught to kind of like suck it up,
don't have these emotions. And sometimes we don't realize what
women are going through. And sometimes we don't even understand
what we're going through. That we talked about the you know,
the mental part of it, and so we need to
understand that it may be deeper than we really realize.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Oh completely, I mean, reading right off of our list here,
the number one item that seems to be an issue
is relationship status with your partner. So, yeah, that's an issue.
It definitely is. You know, you've got limited time to
take care of yourself, You've got a lack of sleep,
you know, difficulty maybe with the birthing experience. I mean,
(09:44):
just so many reasons to to put you into a
little bit of a tispin, if you will.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Because women are supposed to have that connection with the baby,
and sometimes that connection is for whatever reason.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
It's just maybe not there at the moment and comes
and goes, and yeah, it's it's a tough time. It's
just a tough time. We just need to recognize it.
We need to recognize it. That's really the most important thing.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Is there is more help available to those individuals now
than in the past. All Right, let's talk about the
rural commit communities.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
What is this about. This would be folks that are
not they're out maybe a little bit more isolated in
some areas, which is another tough thing to be. You've
got lack of access to mental health there, you're isolated
from people. We need each other, that's important. We need
each other. And if you don't have people living close by,
(10:35):
you don't really have anybody to talk to about this,
So you know, that's an issue. A lot of times,
there's more substance abuse there. There's also some socioeconomic factors.
Perhaps you may not have as much money, which can
cause stress and anxiety and potentially depression.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
And especially this time of year, during the holidays and this.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Time where it can be worse, It can be worse.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Suicide and law enforcement officers, they when you think of
stressful jobs, this is high on the list.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
It's very high on the list. Yeah, and what we've
learned is that there are more lower law enforcement officers
that died by suicide than the line of duty. Oh
it's a shame. Yeah, that's a shame because you know,
they are important people. But again, access to firearms, you know,
they typically do have access to that. Their exposure to
(11:27):
trauma on a regular basis, that's difficult to go through.
So yeah, they've got a tough job. My father started
the the E. M. T. Service.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
It was a fireman in my in my small town. Unfortunately,
that kind of bravery and fortitude.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Skipped a generation.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
But there were days, there were times that it was
really tough for him to you know, see what people
were going through and and he would it would. There
was there was times where he really struggled, so, you know,
and he I lived in a small town, so talk
about rural you know, and police officers. He was in
(12:05):
the medical you're seeing trauma that people shouldn't have.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
You shouldn't have to see it. Yeah, you shouldn't have
to see it, and they see it a lot more
often than you'd like to know.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I'm sure suicide and men men account for the vast
majority of suicides each Right.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Again, the issue there is pretty much the typical ones,
but a lot of it is as guys, we're stoic,
we're tough, you know, suck it up. We're supposed to
hold it's supposed to hold any and deal with it.
Not always a thing we can do, right, Yeah, so
(12:43):
we just have to, you know, we have to soften
up a little bit and talk to our friends that
are guys and just say, hey, you know, you do it? Okay,
seems like something's awful, all right.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
We talked about police officers, but there's also other occupation,
is that suicides differ among different occupations. Telling us a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Well, what we've discovered recently and we've got a larger
talk safe lies version for it, is the construction industry. Yeah,
and we found that the construction industry is actually the
second riskiest profession when it comes to suicide. So we
(13:25):
put some programs on we're now. Last year we did
something called the Hike for Hope for the construction industry.
So we've got lots of construction companies in well for US,
at least in Western PA that are coming together helping
raise some funds so that we can put on some
programming and make some change.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
That's interesting because the Heart Association does targets the same
kind of occupations. They realize that, you know, heart disease
is prevalent when it comes to the construction industry.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well number number one we discovered
was extraction, which I could understand. Yeah, I could understand.
I'm not laughing at them. Want that job? No being
underground in the darkness all day long like that? No, no,
thank you. But yeah, very difficult industry, we understand that.
(14:17):
But there's constructions prevalent, very prevalent, particularly here in Pittsburgh.
You know, with the change in the steel industry, I
think it's much more blue collar oriented now towards construction. Right. So, yeah,
big job is a difficult job. It is. It's tough,
it's stressful. You're dealing sometimes with you know, multimillion dollar
pieces of equipment. You know, you've got a schedule you
(14:37):
got to meet and you know you're tired physically, you're
tired mentally. It's the weather in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
For anybody, exactly, the people who are maybe working outside
exactly exactly. Is there any particular let's say, individuals that
you know you like it says here, suicide in Asian
America and Pacific islander communities is a bit of a.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, that's another we have seen that that you know,
various races tend to have a little bit higher rate.
This is one that does have a higher rate. We
don't see this population particularly much in Western PA, but
it is a higher risk.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Area suicide and the legal profession. We talked about construction,
but what is it about the legal profession that that
gives them a higher suicide rate.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Well, there's a whole lot of pressure you've got. You know,
you're you're typically in the beginning of a career sometimes
and you've got so much stress and pressure to grow, grow, grow,
grow your business. So we've seen that stress issue. There's
also seems to be a little bit higher rate of
alcohol and substance abuse sometimes because of all that pressure,
(15:51):
a lot of emotional burden from that. The outcomes for
your clients. You know, if you don't do a good job,
they may suffer as a result. There's a lot of pressure.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
We talked about e m ts and and and the
police officers. They probably also see situations that normal people
don't exactly act. Yeah, a lot of long work hours
or family situation.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
The family situation.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, I mean, you know so many situations that that
there's just a Yeah. We're talking with Doug Bishop of
the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. If you need more information,
the website is a f SP dot org, specifically the
Western Pennsylvania. If you look up a f SP Western Pennsylvania,
you can buy the website if you need more information.
(16:36):
But you kind of mentioned a few times of uh,
talk saves lives. What is that kind of what does
that encapsulate?
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Well, that's that's the title of this program that we
put on for educational and presentation purposes. But the idea
behind it is to just talk about mental health. It
doesn't need to be the stigma that we have behind
it doesn't need to be there. We're trying to change that.
I think the more you talk about it, the more
(17:05):
you normalize it, and the more you normalize it. Maybe
we'll save some lives from that. That's the idea.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Let's talk about stigma, because that is a bit of
a problem, and I'm glad that we can talk about
it because talking is well, talking saves lives, and so
you being here is going to save a life, hopefully,
I hope. So Okay, So what is it about the
stigma and what can we do to reduce that stigma?
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I think the biggest thing really is just talk about
it more often and realize mental health is something that
a lot of folks struggle with. I mean as far
as folks on medication. I mean there's a lot of
folks taking SSRIs for depression and many other drugs for
you know, the other different varieties of mental health issues.
(17:55):
So it's something that happens to a large number of
the popular and so we just need to treat it differently.
Let me ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
You know, sometimes we try to be delicate when we're
talking to somebody who's experienced a loved one who had
committed suicide. What do you how do you how do
you approach somebody like that? Like you know, you and
I talking, you have you've you've gone through there, and
so now me talking to you, how what are what
(18:25):
are some things that I should and should not do?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
As far as supporting someone who's lost someone to suicide,
we actually have a brand new educational program coming out
literally in the next probably a month or so called
Caring Communities that will deal exactly with this topic. And
it's how to support somebody and be there for somebody
(18:52):
who's lost someone to suicide and what we basically again
try to normalize it. But I think in this case,
to help someone, it's more about listening and being there
and doing things to help them than saying a whole
(19:12):
lot because we did to say.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
And as guys, we want to fix the problem, and
maybe that's not what should be the priority. It's listening
to whatever they say or being just being there for
that person.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Right because many times, you know, in our Survivors of
Suicide Day, we have a speaker that that comes pretty
often and she always talks about things that you know,
people say the wrong things, like I'll give you a
couple of examples. For instance, you know when I lost Alex,
or when we lost Alex, people would say, oh, well
(19:48):
he's in a better place now. The best place for
him is right here with us. At least you've got
another daughter. You've got a daughter at home, Well, yeah,
that's great, but would love to have Alex here too.
So yeah, so you're better off just saying I don't
know what to say, but I'm here for you. I'll
(20:10):
be here, I'll help you, we'll get through this together.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
But people who have lost someone, a loved one, yes
to suicide, it's good that you have these events and
these programs so there is a place that you can
talk to someone about how you're feeling and the guilt
that maybe you're feeling, because those are all part of
the emotional healing.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Absolutely, the guilt is one of I don't even know
how many different emotions you go through when you've lost
someone to suicide. It is a grief that is extremely
difficult to get through. You know, I've lost my parents.
You know we've all will eventually lose our parents. That's just,
(20:55):
you know, the way it goes. But when you lose
a child is sort of out of the wrong and
wrong order. It shouldn't happen this way. But that alone,
coupled with it being a you know, a death from suicide,
makes it that much difficult more difficult, and it's a
it's a long journey. It doesn't ever go away. It
just gets I used to say it gets more, it
(21:18):
shrinks and becomes more manageable. But someone brought this up
a month or so ago, and I like the description better.
It doesn't change, You just get stronger and you can
carry the load better.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
But volunteering for this organization, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention,
did it help you manage that great?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Immensely? What I did learn took some time, but I
recently went to another program that is for a long
term survivors of suicide loss. Since I'm now on year eleven,
I went to this event and one of the things
(22:00):
that I learned in the event is something called post
traumatic growth, which I'd never heard of before, and it's
basically about how through trauma sometimes not everybody, but sometimes
you can be a basically a bigger, stronger, better version
of yourself because you've been through something so so difficult
(22:23):
that you had to work through. Part of being able
to do all that is being around people who understand
what you've gone through. Well, for me, that was a
FSP no question about it.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And the and the walks and the participation. All is,
it's all part of that package.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It is. It just all helps.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So if I guess, the lesson is that you know,
be sensitive, but be there for the for the for
the person.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It's about support. It's not about you telling them what
to do or telling the how they should feel, because
you won't understand and you just have to be there.
But be there. It's the biggest thing.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
But if you need someone to talk to, it's important,
it's vital. It's imperative that you talk to someone, whether
it's a mental health professional or if you are just
looking for the right path, because I bet it can
be a lonely experience.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yes, very lonely, because we're not talking about it. So
you don't even know who else may have gone through this,
so you don't know who to reach out to. Well,
one of the people you can reach out to is
AFSP and there's a section on their website called Healing
Conversations And if you want to talk to someone that
(23:41):
experienced a death from suicide and we're a survivor from
that now you can fill out the forum and make
that request and from that ZIP code it will come
to Western PA. If you're in our zip code area
and we will connect you with someone has a similar loss.
(24:01):
I am part of that program in Western Pa and
I've talked to dozens of parents SUVI lost children.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
We're talking with Doug Bishop of the American Foundation for
Suicide Prevention once again. Their website is a f SP
dot org. If you're looking for the particular Western Pennsylvania chapter,
it's a f SP dot org slash chapter slash Western Pennsylvania.
I think it's best to maybe look up American Foundation
for Suicide or.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
A little bit eier. All right.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
You mentioned a little bit about advocacy, and I think
I think it's important that we address that because sometimes
we talked about the the UH. Suicide could be a
taboo subject and there's a stigma involved with it UH.
And it's very important to get our local officials on
(24:51):
board with this because it is it is vital that
they participate. So what are you doing or what what
can't what would you like the community do to help you?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I think as far as that is concerned, unfortunately, we
need funds to you know, meet some of these goals.
So that's always a great thing to just have some donations.
But if you wanted to get involved with the chapter.
You can certainly be a volunteer. Go to our website.
You've you've mentioned the website name, so you can go
there and become a volunteer and then just mention that
(25:24):
you're interested in advocacy and we'll get you on our
team to go to Harrisburg, go to d C if
that's what you wanted to do, and help us talk
with you know, the different politicians and try to get
some WAT changes. For instance, you know ninety eight eight
was a big push from AFSP. Now if people aren't
familiar with that, yeah, nine eight eight is similar to
(25:45):
nine to one one, only this is specifically for mental health.
So if you would call nine eight eight and there's
questions in there. Unfortunately, we've lost one of the digits
that you can push. Three is a digit for the
LGBTQ community, but that has been removed lately from by
the current administration. Sorry to be political, but that's a
(26:09):
very high risk community and they need to have some
help as well. But you can you can reach out
to nine eight eight and they will you know, help
you through and you know, potentially help you find somebody.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Okay, we only have a couple of minutes from so
let's kind of recap some of the things, the important
things that you want to highlight.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I think right now it would be education programs. I
think that's the biggest thing that we can provide as
far as help in the communities. If we can get
that word out there, I think we can reduce the stigma.
We can get people talking about this, and I think
that's one of the biggest ways that we can see
live or save lives. Also, we've got the our Survivor's
(26:53):
Day coming up. It's a Saturday before Thanksgiving. And again,
if you want to go to a fsp dot org
slash chapter Slash Western Pennsylvania, it is on our website
under the events section and you can sign up for that.
It is a free event. It's from nine o'clock until
three pm. We will give you breakfast to lunch as
well for free. But it's a great day. I our
(27:18):
reactions from folks that attend that event is phenomenal that
they just feel so much better afterwards. They just feel
a sense of hope, feel a sense of community, and
you know, they know where they can go for some help.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
All right, what's going to happen? What are some of
the events that you are planning for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
For twenty twenty six, we will have our second Hike
for Hope in I think it's in May this year.
So we hope to really help out the construction industry
because it's so prevalent here. That's a big deal. We
will also always have our campus walks in the springtime,
normally March and April. We will have our community walks
(27:59):
in September in October. There have been in I think
eight or nine campus walks, five community walks, a Hike
for Hope. So we've got a lot of walking going. Ay, well,
you cover a lot of counties, yeah, twenty five counties,
so we're trying to reach some of those other counties
as well, keep spreading the word out in Western Pa
(28:20):
and doing what we can to And another out of
Darkness walk out of the Out of the Darkness Walk
will be in September. I don't know the exact date yet.
That's always a tough issue with Steeler Football, Pitch Football,
et cetera.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Not the only nonprofit dealing with those situations. It's funny
you wait for some of these nonprofits that get back
to me, to you know to be on the program
like hold on, wait for this.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
For the NFL, it's a big deal. Here with the
NFL is a big deal. It is always such a
pleasure to talk with you.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I'm glad that we could tried to break down that
stigma and start the conversation about If we.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Did that today, then we have success.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Doug Bishop, American Foundation for Suicide Prevention once again. The
website is AFSP dot org. If you want the specific
Western PA, just to type in the Google Google Machine Dog.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Thank you and happy holidays. Iergy coming in as always.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
If you have any comments, a concern, or an idea
for a future program, please email us from this radio
station's website.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
I'm Johnny Hartwell, thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Hey, life doesn't stop when cancer starts. After diagnosis, treatment
is vital, but for some just getting there to appointments,
chemo or radiation is a major challenge.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
You can change that.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Volunteer to give rides with the American Cancer Society.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Road to Recovery Program.
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Driving for a few hours of your day can make
a life saving difference for someone with cancer. Visit cancer
dot org slash drive to learn more.
And welcome in.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This is a public affairs program shedding the light on
the interest, issues, and concerns of the greater Pittsburgh area.
Good morning, and good Sunday to you. My name is
Johnny Hartwell your host. My guest this morning is Doug Bishop,
who is the treasurer of the Western PA American Foundation
for Suicide Prevention.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Doug, good to see you again. How are you, sir?
I'm doing well. Joining good to see you too.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
All right, so this is the time of year that
you know, suicide prevention needs to be talked about.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Is that right? Yes, it is. It's what it needs
to be talked about all year alone. Yes, but maybe
a little bit more this time of year, we're getting
into the holidays can be a really difficult time for people.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Okay, let's talk about let me talk. Let's talk about
your organization first, sure, and then maybe your experience and
then we can talk about you know, suicide prevention. So
talk about the organization first of all.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Sure, it's the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. There are
chapters in all fifty states, including d C and Puerto Rico.
There's roughly seventy three chapters right now. We are the
Western Pennsylvania Chapter. We cover the twenty five counties in
the western part of the state. We're very active here.
(01:14):
That's a large area. It's a pretty large area sometimes
for us down here in Pittsburgh. The area road anywhere
you need to go, No, there is not welcome to
Western Pa. Right but we are a pretty busy chapter.
We just had our annual fundraising walk here in Pittsburgh
(01:35):
back in early September. We do that. We have a
time in the spring for campus walks of all the colleges.
We also are heavily involved in things like research. AFSP
is the largest private funder of research for suicide prevention
(01:56):
in the country. We also get involved as advocacies, so
we are going to Washington, d c. And harris Berg
and all the other state coupois to try to get
some laws passed moved forward. We also offer education programs
which we're going to talk about a little bit later today,
and they're all free. We are happy to put them
(02:16):
on for basically anybody, anytime, anyplace. And we also have
another event coming up later this month. And I are
what we call loss and Healing or post vention and
is there for people that have lost them with the
suicide and they just need to meet with other people
that are unfortunately in that same group.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
It pains my heart the thing that we need an
organization like yours, But we do need an organization like you,
we do.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I mentioned this to a lot of folks and they're
kind of stunned by the statistics. But the CDC, who
were now unfortunately too familiar with, puts out an annual
ranking of the top leading causes of death and in
this country, and the frightening part is the age groups
from fourteen up to about thirty four, it's the second
(03:07):
leading cause of death, and that's kind of staggering sometimes.
Now tell me your experience. My experience is I got
involved with AFSP back in twenty fourteen when I lost
my son to suicide. He was Alex was twenty one
at that point in January of twenty fourteen, and I
(03:28):
got involved by doing the walk in Pittsburgh, which we
just finished in September. Felt a lot of hope, a
lot of comfort, a lot of other people that have
gone through unfortunately the same thing, a member of the
club that nobody wants to be a member of, and
just felt comfortable with that and was encouraged to go
(03:49):
to their next big event, which is the one we're
having in a couple of weeks, which is the International
Survivors of Suicide Loss Event, and went to that event
and just the warmth in the room. They really understand
what we go through. They've studied it, they've researched it,
(04:09):
and they're there to provide hope.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
You know, suicide almost at one point was taboo. You
weren't going to talk about it. No, No, this isn't
something that we talk about. No, we're going to hold
that in. And it's organizations like yours and those events
that you that you had back in September that allows.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
People to to.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Get together and talk about it and realize they're not
alone going through the grief and the and the guilt
and everything that goes on with with that kind of.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Well, that's why the community walks that we do in
September are called out of the Darkness. We're wanting to
bring this topic out of the darkness and talk about it.
And one of our big educational programs is Talk Saves Lives.
So yes, it's very important to talk about it. It
does happen. Everybody has mental health Hopefully it's good. Sometimes
(05:01):
it isn't, and so we need to talk about it
like any other health issue.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Now, this is the time of year that concerns all
of us because of the the just the pressure of
the holidays, and so you do something special around Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
What do you guys do? Well? We have an event
that we have that's the Saturday before Thanksgiving. It is
the International Survivor of Suicide Loss Day, and this year's
out at a Inland township. I'm sorry, I don't remember
the hotel name, but if you look on fair website
it's there. You can register for that. It's a day
(05:39):
of hope for those that have lost somebody. We typically
have in the Pittsburgh area about seventy five or so attendees.
It's a tough event. We've experienced over one hundred sign up,
but then it comes to the day of the event
and it's difficult, and so we do have quite a
few of people that just can't get there. Understand that,
(06:00):
totally understand it, totally understand. You just hope that at
some point they can. I hope that if they can't, Yeah,
if they can't come this year, I hope to come
next year.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
You know, the walk, the coming out of the darkness.
It allows people to kind of realize that you're not
going through this experience alone. That it can be a
lonely experience.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Oh, it can be a very lonely, isolating experience. And
what we're trying to do is to change that. Sure.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And that's why I invite you as as often as
I possibly can, because I think it's it's important for
this community to start realizing it's not a taboo subject.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It shouldn't be a taboo subject. I like I've told
you before, I don't even like the term mental health.
It's health. It's just health. It's another organ in our body.
It needs taken care of, and we need to sometimes
medicate it and sometimes retrain it through therapy.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
You know, if somebody has a broken leg or is
diabetic exactly, you know, a professional health you know, and
you consult people, and we should do the same thing
with the brain.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I always do this. My reference is, you know, because
we do this right before Thanksgiving. Hey, you know, as
guys are out there playing the Turkey Bowl football, you know,
right before Thanksgiving, and you know, somebody hits us a
little too hard. Maybe we were in journey. Well, now
you've got an issue, you got to see somebody for it,
and you probably need some medication. Maybe you need some
pain or pain relief, or maybe you know you've got
(07:28):
some inflammation or whatever, so you take some medication. Well,
you might need to go to physical therapy too. Same
thing with your brain sometimes sometimes you just need some
medication and you need to retrain your brain. Think a
little bit differently, We talk a little bit differently, act
a little bit differently.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
All right, So you've given me quite a few things
to talk about. Should we go through this this laundry,
let's talk about perionatal period. Does suicide and perionatal lie?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Right? Our educational program, our most popular program is one
called Talk Saves Lives, and we've put this on very often.
Let's just put it that way on a on a
very regular basis, but there's different versions of it that
we can put on for specific topics, like parinatal period,
which is for women that are experiencing some postpartum depression.
(08:16):
So we've learned that you know, in the during pregnancy
or in the first twelve months postpartum is a tough
time for women. And we've got a program that can
maybe help you through some of those depressions, uh excuse me,
depressive times.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
And so many times, and for so many years, we
kind of dismissed women and their feelings after giving giving birth,
and we need to realize that this is a very
difficult time and you know and just say, oh, she's
she'll be she'll be fine. Well, sometimes they aren't fine
and they really need and so many times, as as men,
(08:52):
we we kind of uh screw it up.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Well, you know, let me defend men.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, first of all, as a small child, we are
kind of taught to kind of like suck it up,
don't have these emotions. And sometimes we don't realize what
women are going through. And sometimes we don't even understand
what we're going through. That we talked about the you know,
the mental part of it, and so we need to
understand that it may be deeper than we really realize.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Oh completely, I mean, reading right off of our list here,
the number one item that seems to be an issue
is relationship status with your partner. So, yeah, that's an issue.
It definitely is. You know, you've got limited time to
take care of yourself, You've got a lack of sleep,
you know, difficulty maybe with the birthing experience. I mean,
(09:44):
just so many reasons to to put you into a
little bit of a tispin, if you will.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Because women are supposed to have that connection with the baby,
and sometimes that connection is for whatever reason.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
It's just maybe not there at the moment and comes
and goes, and yeah, it's it's a tough time. It's
just a tough time. We just need to recognize it.
We need to recognize it. That's really the most important thing.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Is there is more help available to those individuals now
than in the past. All Right, let's talk about the
rural commit communities.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
What is this about. This would be folks that are
not they're out maybe a little bit more isolated in
some areas, which is another tough thing to be. You've
got lack of access to mental health there, you're isolated
from people. We need each other, that's important. We need
each other. And if you don't have people living close by,
(10:35):
you don't really have anybody to talk to about this,
So you know, that's an issue. A lot of times,
there's more substance abuse there. There's also some socioeconomic factors.
Perhaps you may not have as much money, which can
cause stress and anxiety and potentially depression.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
And especially this time of year, during the holidays and this.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Time where it can be worse, It can be worse.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Suicide and law enforcement officers, they when you think of
stressful jobs, this is high on the list.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
It's very high on the list. Yeah, and what we've
learned is that there are more lower law enforcement officers
that died by suicide than the line of duty. Oh
it's a shame. Yeah, that's a shame because you know,
they are important people. But again, access to firearms, you know,
they typically do have access to that. Their exposure to
(11:27):
trauma on a regular basis, that's difficult to go through.
So yeah, they've got a tough job. My father started
the the E. M. T. Service.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
It was a fireman in my in my small town. Unfortunately,
that kind of bravery and fortitude.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Skipped a generation.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
But there were days, there were times that it was
really tough for him to you know, see what people
were going through and and he would it would. There
was there was times where he really struggled, so, you know,
and he I lived in a small town, so talk
about rural you know, and police officers. He was in
(12:05):
the medical you're seeing trauma that people shouldn't have.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
You shouldn't have to see it. Yeah, you shouldn't have
to see it, and they see it a lot more
often than you'd like to know.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I'm sure suicide and men men account for the vast
majority of suicides each Right.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Again, the issue there is pretty much the typical ones,
but a lot of it is as guys, we're stoic,
we're tough, you know, suck it up. We're supposed to
hold it's supposed to hold any and deal with it.
Not always a thing we can do, right, Yeah, so
(12:43):
we just have to, you know, we have to soften
up a little bit and talk to our friends that
are guys and just say, hey, you know, you do it? Okay,
seems like something's awful, all right.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
We talked about police officers, but there's also other occupation,
is that suicides differ among different occupations. Telling us a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Well, what we've discovered recently and we've got a larger
talk safe lies version for it, is the construction industry. Yeah,
and we found that the construction industry is actually the
second riskiest profession when it comes to suicide. So we
(13:25):
put some programs on we're now. Last year we did
something called the Hike for Hope for the construction industry.
So we've got lots of construction companies in well for US,
at least in Western PA that are coming together helping
raise some funds so that we can put on some
programming and make some change.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
That's interesting because the Heart Association does targets the same
kind of occupations. They realize that, you know, heart disease
is prevalent when it comes to the construction industry.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well number number one we discovered
was extraction, which I could understand. Yeah, I could understand.
I'm not laughing at them. Want that job? No being
underground in the darkness all day long like that? No, no,
thank you. But yeah, very difficult industry, we understand that.
(14:17):
But there's constructions prevalent, very prevalent, particularly here in Pittsburgh.
You know, with the change in the steel industry, I
think it's much more blue collar oriented now towards construction. Right. So, yeah,
big job is a difficult job. It is. It's tough,
it's stressful. You're dealing sometimes with you know, multimillion dollar
pieces of equipment. You know, you've got a schedule you
(14:37):
got to meet and you know you're tired physically, you're
tired mentally. It's the weather in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
For anybody, exactly, the people who are maybe working outside
exactly exactly. Is there any particular let's say, individuals that
you know you like it says here, suicide in Asian
America and Pacific islander communities is a bit of a.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, that's another we have seen that that you know,
various races tend to have a little bit higher rate.
This is one that does have a higher rate. We
don't see this population particularly much in Western PA, but
it is a higher risk.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Area suicide and the legal profession. We talked about construction,
but what is it about the legal profession that that
gives them a higher suicide rate.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Well, there's a whole lot of pressure you've got. You know,
you're you're typically in the beginning of a career sometimes
and you've got so much stress and pressure to grow, grow, grow,
grow your business. So we've seen that stress issue. There's
also seems to be a little bit higher rate of
alcohol and substance abuse sometimes because of all that pressure,
(15:51):
a lot of emotional burden from that. The outcomes for
your clients. You know, if you don't do a good job,
they may suffer as a result. There's a lot of pressure.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
We talked about e m ts and and and the
police officers. They probably also see situations that normal people
don't exactly act. Yeah, a lot of long work hours
or family situation.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
The family situation.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, I mean, you know so many situations that that
there's just a Yeah. We're talking with Doug Bishop of
the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. If you need more information,
the website is a f SP dot org, specifically the
Western Pennsylvania. If you look up a f SP Western Pennsylvania,
you can buy the website if you need more information.
(16:36):
But you kind of mentioned a few times of uh,
talk saves lives. What is that kind of what does
that encapsulate?
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Well, that's that's the title of this program that we
put on for educational and presentation purposes. But the idea
behind it is to just talk about mental health. It
doesn't need to be the stigma that we have behind
it doesn't need to be there. We're trying to change that.
I think the more you talk about it, the more
(17:05):
you normalize it, and the more you normalize it. Maybe
we'll save some lives from that. That's the idea.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Let's talk about stigma, because that is a bit of
a problem, and I'm glad that we can talk about
it because talking is well, talking saves lives, and so
you being here is going to save a life, hopefully,
I hope. So Okay, So what is it about the
stigma and what can we do to reduce that stigma?
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I think the biggest thing really is just talk about
it more often and realize mental health is something that
a lot of folks struggle with. I mean as far
as folks on medication. I mean there's a lot of
folks taking SSRIs for depression and many other drugs for
you know, the other different varieties of mental health issues.
(17:55):
So it's something that happens to a large number of
the popular and so we just need to treat it differently.
Let me ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
You know, sometimes we try to be delicate when we're
talking to somebody who's experienced a loved one who had
committed suicide. What do you how do you how do
you approach somebody like that? Like you know, you and
I talking, you have you've you've gone through there, and
so now me talking to you, how what are what
(18:25):
are some things that I should and should not do?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
As far as supporting someone who's lost someone to suicide,
we actually have a brand new educational program coming out
literally in the next probably a month or so called
Caring Communities that will deal exactly with this topic. And
it's how to support somebody and be there for somebody
(18:52):
who's lost someone to suicide and what we basically again
try to normalize it. But I think in this case,
to help someone, it's more about listening and being there
and doing things to help them than saying a whole
(19:12):
lot because we did to say.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
And as guys, we want to fix the problem, and
maybe that's not what should be the priority. It's listening
to whatever they say or being just being there for
that person.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Right because many times, you know, in our Survivors of
Suicide Day, we have a speaker that that comes pretty
often and she always talks about things that you know,
people say the wrong things, like I'll give you a
couple of examples. For instance, you know when I lost Alex,
or when we lost Alex, people would say, oh, well
(19:48):
he's in a better place now. The best place for
him is right here with us. At least you've got
another daughter. You've got a daughter at home, Well, yeah,
that's great, but would love to have Alex here too.
So yeah, so you're better off just saying I don't
know what to say, but I'm here for you. I'll
(20:10):
be here, I'll help you, we'll get through this together.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
But people who have lost someone, a loved one, yes
to suicide, it's good that you have these events and
these programs so there is a place that you can
talk to someone about how you're feeling and the guilt
that maybe you're feeling, because those are all part of
the emotional healing.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Absolutely, the guilt is one of I don't even know
how many different emotions you go through when you've lost
someone to suicide. It is a grief that is extremely
difficult to get through. You know, I've lost my parents.
You know we've all will eventually lose our parents. That's just,
(20:55):
you know, the way it goes. But when you lose
a child is sort of out of the wrong and
wrong order. It shouldn't happen this way. But that alone,
coupled with it being a you know, a death from suicide,
makes it that much difficult more difficult, and it's a
it's a long journey. It doesn't ever go away. It
just gets I used to say it gets more, it
(21:18):
shrinks and becomes more manageable. But someone brought this up
a month or so ago, and I like the description better.
It doesn't change, You just get stronger and you can
carry the load better.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
But volunteering for this organization, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention,
did it help you manage that great?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Immensely? What I did learn took some time, but I
recently went to another program that is for a long
term survivors of suicide loss. Since I'm now on year eleven,
I went to this event and one of the things
(22:00):
that I learned in the event is something called post
traumatic growth, which I'd never heard of before, and it's
basically about how through trauma sometimes not everybody, but sometimes
you can be a basically a bigger, stronger, better version
of yourself because you've been through something so so difficult
(22:23):
that you had to work through. Part of being able
to do all that is being around people who understand
what you've gone through. Well, for me, that was a
FSP no question about it.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And the and the walks and the participation. All is,
it's all part of that package.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It is. It just all helps.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So if I guess, the lesson is that you know,
be sensitive, but be there for the for the for
the person.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It's about support. It's not about you telling them what
to do or telling the how they should feel, because
you won't understand and you just have to be there.
But be there. It's the biggest thing.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
But if you need someone to talk to, it's important,
it's vital. It's imperative that you talk to someone, whether
it's a mental health professional or if you are just
looking for the right path, because I bet it can
be a lonely experience.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yes, very lonely, because we're not talking about it. So
you don't even know who else may have gone through this,
so you don't know who to reach out to. Well,
one of the people you can reach out to is
AFSP and there's a section on their website called Healing
Conversations And if you want to talk to someone that
(23:41):
experienced a death from suicide and we're a survivor from
that now you can fill out the forum and make
that request and from that ZIP code it will come
to Western PA. If you're in our zip code area
and we will connect you with someone has a similar loss.
(24:01):
I am part of that program in Western Pa and
I've talked to dozens of parents SUVI lost children.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
We're talking with Doug Bishop of the American Foundation for
Suicide Prevention once again. Their website is a f SP
dot org. If you're looking for the particular Western Pennsylvania chapter,
it's a f SP dot org slash chapter slash Western Pennsylvania.
I think it's best to maybe look up American Foundation
for Suicide or.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
A little bit eier. All right.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
You mentioned a little bit about advocacy, and I think
I think it's important that we address that because sometimes
we talked about the the UH. Suicide could be a
taboo subject and there's a stigma involved with it UH.
And it's very important to get our local officials on
(24:51):
board with this because it is it is vital that
they participate. So what are you doing or what what
can't what would you like the community do to help you?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I think as far as that is concerned, unfortunately, we
need funds to you know, meet some of these goals.
So that's always a great thing to just have some donations.
But if you wanted to get involved with the chapter.
You can certainly be a volunteer. Go to our website.
You've you've mentioned the website name, so you can go
there and become a volunteer and then just mention that
(25:24):
you're interested in advocacy and we'll get you on our
team to go to Harrisburg, go to d C if
that's what you wanted to do, and help us talk
with you know, the different politicians and try to get
some WAT changes. For instance, you know ninety eight eight
was a big push from AFSP. Now if people aren't
familiar with that, yeah, nine eight eight is similar to
(25:45):
nine to one one, only this is specifically for mental health.
So if you would call nine eight eight and there's
questions in there. Unfortunately, we've lost one of the digits
that you can push. Three is a digit for the
LGBTQ community, but that has been removed lately from by
the current administration. Sorry to be political, but that's a
(26:09):
very high risk community and they need to have some
help as well. But you can you can reach out
to nine eight eight and they will you know, help
you through and you know, potentially help you find somebody.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Okay, we only have a couple of minutes from so
let's kind of recap some of the things, the important
things that you want to highlight.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I think right now it would be education programs. I
think that's the biggest thing that we can provide as
far as help in the communities. If we can get
that word out there, I think we can reduce the stigma.
We can get people talking about this, and I think
that's one of the biggest ways that we can see
live or save lives. Also, we've got the our Survivor's
(26:53):
Day coming up. It's a Saturday before Thanksgiving. And again,
if you want to go to a fsp dot org
slash chapter Slash Western Pennsylvania, it is on our website
under the events section and you can sign up for that.
It is a free event. It's from nine o'clock until
three pm. We will give you breakfast to lunch as
well for free. But it's a great day. I our
(27:18):
reactions from folks that attend that event is phenomenal that
they just feel so much better afterwards. They just feel
a sense of hope, feel a sense of community, and
you know, they know where they can go for some help.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
All right, what's going to happen? What are some of
the events that you are planning for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
For twenty twenty six, we will have our second Hike
for Hope in I think it's in May this year.
So we hope to really help out the construction industry
because it's so prevalent here. That's a big deal. We
will also always have our campus walks in the springtime,
normally March and April. We will have our community walks
(27:59):
in September in October. There have been in I think
eight or nine campus walks, five community walks, a Hike
for Hope. So we've got a lot of walking going. Ay, well,
you cover a lot of counties, yeah, twenty five counties,
so we're trying to reach some of those other counties
as well, keep spreading the word out in Western Pa
(28:20):
and doing what we can to And another out of
Darkness walk out of the Out of the Darkness Walk
will be in September. I don't know the exact date yet.
That's always a tough issue with Steeler Football, Pitch Football,
et cetera.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Not the only nonprofit dealing with those situations. It's funny
you wait for some of these nonprofits that get back
to me, to you know to be on the program
like hold on, wait for this.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
For the NFL, it's a big deal. Here with the
NFL is a big deal. It is always such a
pleasure to talk with you.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I'm glad that we could tried to break down that
stigma and start the conversation about If we.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Did that today, then we have success.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Doug Bishop, American Foundation for Suicide Prevention once again. The
website is AFSP dot org. If you want the specific
Western PA, just to type in the Google Google Machine Dog.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Thank you and happy holidays. Iergy coming in as always.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
If you have any comments, a concern, or an idea
for a future program, please email us from this radio
station's website.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
I'm Johnny Hartwell, thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Hey, life doesn't stop when cancer starts. After diagnosis, treatment
is vital, but for some just getting there to appointments,
chemo or radiation is a major challenge.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
You can change that.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Volunteer to give rides with the American Cancer Society.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Road to Recovery Program.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Driving for a few hours of your day can make
a life saving difference for someone with cancer. Visit cancer
dot org slash drive to learn more.
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