May 24, 2023 • 38 mins
On Today's EpisodeA Baby Announcement [00:00 - 05:38]Long-time co-host of the show, Hailey, had her baby! We share some info and do a little reminiscing...How Michigan's New VOC Rules Will Impact All of Us [05:38 - 33:28]New regulations regarding VOCs in paint and coatings went into effect in April in Michigan. And while it may seem like it may not impact you . . . chances are, everyone will feel it a little.Gone are oil-based deck products, polyurethanes, interior and exterior stains, and more. What does that mean? Are the waterbased alternatives as good? Also, if you (like so many people do) rely on oil-based products to get the job done, you'll be eager to hear that RepcoLite is actually still allowed to produce all of these oil-based, go-to, traditional products for 5 more years. So if you need them, we've got something that will work for you. We talk about all of that and much more in this segment!The Perfect Hose [33:29 - 38:58]With only a little time left in the show for the week, we opted to discuss hoses. Dan #2 is looking for a new hose and he's sick of the standard options--the ones that kink and are hard to uncoil. He's found a great alternative....
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Well, good morning, everybody,Happy Saturday. You're listening to the Rep
Coalite Home improvement show sponsored by BenjaminMoore. I'm Dan Hansen and I'm here
with Dan Altina, president of RepColllite Paints Danks. Thanks for being here.
Yeah two, Dan's for the nextlittle bit. And you're here because
Haley's on maternity leave now and she'llbe gone till I think end of August
(00:23):
or September. It's going to beforever, right, it'll feel like it
for you. It's gonna feel likean eternity until she's back. We thank
you for filling in. It's it'smuch better to talk to somebody than to
sit here and just talk to myself. I can imagine and imagine that there's
people listening anyway. So we're gladyou're here. I do have breaking news
before we get to the show itself. Haley did have her baby, so
(00:46):
the day after Mother's Day, rightin the morning, so she I think
the baby arrived at three nineteen inthe morning on Monday, middle of the
night. Yeah, so almost madeMother's Day, which would have been really
fun, but came the next day. Baby's healthy, Little little Wally Wallace
is healthy. Mom and dad aredoing well. So we told you that
we'd update you when the baby came. The baby has come. I've done
(01:08):
my job awesome, right, Sowe've got a lot of stuff we're going
to talk about today. We'll betalking about some VOC regulations, some changes
to the Michigan VOC regulations for paintingcodings and stuff like that. What that
looks like, how that plays out. We'll be covering that. We'll also
be talking about garden hoses, right, which sounds I mean, yeah,
(01:30):
this is really good stuff. Inthe first segment. Right now, we've
only got a little bit because theVOC conversation is pretty big. Before we
get to that, let's talk,you know, in honor of Hailey and
the baby and all of that birthstories things leading up to that. Do
you have anything interesting. I've gota couple of things that were really funny.
(01:51):
I thought they were funny. Idon't know how my my wife felt
about the thing, but you yeah, I don't know if funny is the
right word, but yeah, Ithink every everybody their first child goes way
overboard with analyzing everything right the firsttime around, and so that was our
situation too. We had a lotof time on our hands to think about
(02:12):
how this is all going to go. Sure, and part of the process,
we decided we should have a midwife. Midwife kind of just helps this
along, helps the process along,um, a guide so to speak,
right, like Gandolf, right forthe Lord of the Rings aficionados. Right,
Yeah, so Gandolf comes to helpyou through this birth process. Right.
(02:32):
It's not as magical as it mightseem. So, yeah, we
had it all mapped out, thisis how it will go. This will
be her role, this will bemy role, this will be my wife's
role. And we had it allpretty well mapped out and fairly confident that
this is what was going to happen. Well, well, here's when you
(02:53):
find out that that's how right.So our son, Emmett he did not
want to come out. So afteralmost two days of labor, oh,
the doctor said, all right,we have to We'll have to just do
a C section here, so youplan for months. Yeah, and the
(03:14):
midwife standing right there, going,oh, well, okay, that's it
for me. Then I guess I'mdone. Oh man, no point at
all. So it's a little disappointing, right, I mean to have done
all this preparation to disappointing for Gandolftoo, Yeah, right right right?
For me? What we had,Um, yes, the first kids,
that's always you know, you completelyoveranalyze everything. Yeah, after that,
(03:37):
it all feels like old hat.Yeah, So I remember, I don't
remember which child it was, butI remember it was a many I've had.
Yeah, I've got five, soI remember it was. Remember all
their names. I do, butit does take sometimes I've got to go
through a whole string of them beforewe land on the right one. But
it was a Wednesday night. Iremember that because it was Survivor night and
(03:58):
we're watching Survivor at home. Iam, my wife's on the couch.
I remember that, and I rememberher saying, like at about eight thirty.
The show starts at eight, goestill nine. She says, at
eight thirty, I think we gotto go to the hospital now. And
I said, but you know,it's like the Survivor's not done and you
know, they got to do thetribal council and all of that. I
(04:18):
said, like, are you sureor we don't want to overdo this and
she said, oh, I said, just can we wait just for a
minute? And she said, well, yeah, we can wait a little.
So we did, and then itgot to be like quarter to nine,
and she said we gotta go.I said, but like fifteen more
minutes because they might vote Rupert offand I want to see if Rupert stays.
(04:42):
And okay, she was very accommodating. Yea, we stayed and watched.
We got to the hospital right afterwards, you know, I drove in
and they get her into the roomand they prepper. They say, oh
my gosh, you're like dialing sevenor something like. Yes. They said,
what were you thinking? And shesaid he had to see survivor and
how it ended, and oh,I felt like crawling in a hole.
(05:05):
But everything was fine, right,and I came out reasonably well right,
right. So I don't know howHaley handled that. I don't. I
told her that story, and everywoman that I tell that too, just
recoils with horror. The guys kindof laughing. I'm practically reciting. Well,
I was a very shallow and selfishperson at that point. I've changed
(05:26):
now. Anyway, Congratulations to Haley. We're going to take a break right
now, and when we come back, what we're talking about voc regulations and
what that means for everybody out there. That's all just ahead, stick around,
and we're back. You're listening tothe Rep Collite Home Improvement Show sponsored
by Benjamin Moore. I'm Dan Hansonand I'm in the studio with Dan Altina,
(05:47):
president of Rep Collite Paints, thetemporary Haley. Yes, I'm filling
in for her while she's on theYes. So, Dan, you had
your first segment. You got thatout of the way. You feel good.
I'm all jacked, all punted out, ready to go excellent. Now
let's jump into something really boring.So we covered something really fun. Now
we're gonna do something really boring.And it's not going to be boring,
(06:10):
but it's potentially you know, it'sSaturday morning, it's are already reaching for
the dial here? No, No, They're used to this. This is
how it works. It's Saturday morning, it's early. I understand that this
is the time slot we've been given. I've asked for longer. I've asked
for different times of the day,but this is what I get. You
play the hand you're deal. I'mso I'm playing this hand. I want
to talk about some voc regulations thathave gone into effect in Michigan as of
(06:34):
April. Now, maybe some ofyou right for paint Now, maybe some
of the listeners you've heard of this, you knew this was coming, Maybe
this is brand new news to you. Maybe you're wondering why it even mattered
to you, or we're going toget to all of that, because the
new regulations are pretty sweeping and they'regoing to fact topic some big changes.
Right, So as we dig intothis, let's just start with what VOCs
(06:57):
are in the first place. Youknow, what are they? And why
are we so worried about regulating Wehear the term all the time, VOCs,
right, you know, in fact, people use this on a regular
basis in the stores, but alot of us don't really know exactly what
that means. We think it meansstinky stuff, right. We don't want
stinky stuff, and that's not necessarilythe case, right, So what are
VOCs? Why are we worried aboutregulating them in the first place. So,
(07:19):
on a very simple level, VOCsstands for volatile organic compounds. Volatile
means it can evaporate at room temperature. Organic compounds are compounds that contain carbon.
Okay, So it's as simple asthat. Now that involves thousands hundreds
of thousands maybe of chemicals, andnot all of those, of course,
(07:42):
are in paint. So what we'retalking about is the regulated group of materials
as smaller. Okay, but theyhave a certain effect, which is they're
called photochemically reactive, which means whenwhen these things evaporate and they're exposed to
sunlight, they generate ozone, boththree and ozone. You maybe heard about
(08:07):
that too. Oh yeah, youknow, way back in the seventies,
there's the ozone hole and it's growing. It's in the upper atmosphere and we're
all gonna burn to death or somethingwas well, I remember it, yeah,
the eighties. I remember elementary schooland being terrified. Yeah, it's
just driven into us that it waslike an apocalyptic thing. Oh yeah,
we were all toast. So ozonein the upper atmosphere is very good.
It helps shield the earth from UVrays. Down at ground level, it's
(08:31):
bad. It causes all sorts ofadverse health effects, respiratory things as my
emphysema, and even in places wherethere's recorded history of large amounts of VOCs
in the air, there's higher incidenceof lung cancer. So it's just a
it's a it's a potentially very harmfulchemical. So to have a lot of
(08:54):
that around it's odorless. Right,If there's a lot of that in the
air, it's gonna have an effecton so everybody's health. So these chemicals
aren't necessarily right, and then eses themselves. These organic chemicals aren't what
we're concerned about to as far asour health is concerned. It's the ozone
(09:15):
that's formed when they're in the presenceof sunlight. Okay, that's what we're
concerned. That's the part we're concernedabout. But you can have something that's
really stinky that's not a vocone asan example, super stinky I mean nail
polish remover, yep um. Andthen there are other things that are that
our VOCs that are completely olderless allright, So that whole older thing has
(09:37):
nothing to do with it. It'sthe ozone that's generated because they're photo chemically
reactive, correct react in the sunlight. Ozone's created, and we got a
problem. It comes from a varietyof different sources. Yeah, not just
paint. Paint is a big one, but it's nothing compared really in size
to say power plants and automobiles.Now, over the last you know,
(09:58):
several decades, all of these things, paint, automobiles, power plants have
all been regulated for the effect ofreducing the amount of VOCs that they're generating.
So our turn now in Michigan withpaint has come all right, So
that's why they're regulated health issues thingslike that. Let's talk about why they're
(10:22):
in paint in the first place.You know, the question might be,
well, if they're bad, youknow, why don't we just get rid
of them entirely. Well, they'reneeded in paint. They actually play an
important role. So both oil basedand water based paints contain VOCs. Oil
based paints will contain much more byvolume than a water based paint, but
they're necessary in all coatings for differentreasons. They act as a solvent in
(10:43):
an oil based paint and makes itthin so you can spread it out.
In water based paints, they havealso different characteristics, like they'll act as
an anti freeze. They act asa coalescing agent, which is a fancy
word that we don't need to getinto what that means. They have these
sort of effects that boost the performanceof paints. Right, So that's why
(11:07):
they're necessary. When you remove thementirely it becomes very difficult to work with,
yep, and maybe not very durable. Right, Okay, so that's
why they're in there. They playan important role. Now let's talk about
you know what the new regulations inMichigan look like. You know, how
is that going to affect us?What's happening with all of us? So
the regulation covers a bunch of differentcategories, maybe thirty different categories of coatings,
(11:33):
everything from asphalt coatings to you know, traffic marking paints, you know,
line striping paint on parking lots.They all all these different categories have
different VOC limits. The first nationalrule was established in nineteen ninety seven to
set some kind of standards. Beforein nineteen ninety seven, there was no
regulation. What it was the wildWest. Yep, you could put it
(11:56):
one hundred percent VOCs whatever you wantedto do. So now in ninety seven
they started to reduce VOCs on anational level, and then states started to
say, hey, you know,we want to take this little be a
little more aggressive. We want tohave rules too. Yeah, we want
to have our own rules. Wewant to have special rules. And this
is California mostly kind of has ledthe charge, not only in paints,
(12:18):
but also in automobiles and stuff likethat as far as the missions go.
So there's been this progression over thelast twenty five thirty years to reduce the
amount of VO season paint. Andthey do this by targeting different maximum amounts
that can be in different types ofpaints. Okay, because some types of
paints are more dependent on the presenceof VOCs than others. All right,
(12:41):
all right, so what's happening inMichigan? Then what are we getting?
What's it going to look like forus? Michigan is going from the least
restrictive regulation, this national rule thatwas established in nineteen ninety seven, to
essentially the most restrictive regulation, whichis there's only a handful of states that
(13:01):
are on this much restriction. Okay, And so what that's gonna do is
it's gonna mean that some of theproducts that we're used to using and having
in our stores we can't sell anymoreand you can't use anymore. So largely
solvent thin products, oil based productsjust going away. Yeah. We in
(13:22):
a lot of cases we're able totry to formulate down formulate some of those
VOCs out by either finding replacements thatare not VOCs, you know, solvent
that doesn't photochemically react, for example. In some cases, we just can't
take enough of it out. Soyou keep saying we are you speaking rep
collection specific Yeah, that's what Iwanted to get out. So it's not
(13:45):
just us, it's everybody out there. And some are able to reformulate certain
products. Other products are just flatgonna go away, right, And it's
also helpful to understand that this isa very interesting map that's playing out as
far as what the regulations are indifferent states. What might be available in
(14:07):
Ohio is not available in Michigan orvice versa. Okay, It's kind of
an interesting landscape that way. Sois there going to be a black market
that arises? I know when theyrestricted the flushes of toilets, there was
a black market. I wouldn't besurprised. You know, the industry has
been very um, you know,proactive with the government and all this to
(14:30):
try to do the right thing.Okay, I guess is the way to
say it. All Right, Sowe're a lot of these solvent thin products
are going away. Water based productswill be largely reformulated to fit under whatever
regulations the limits are, and maybeyou know, people out there are attempted
to think. I initially was temptedto think. Now, I knew it
affected me because I work here,you know, so I knew this was
(14:52):
going to affect me. But homepersonally, I don't know, is it
really going to be that big ofa deal for me. I use mostly
water based paints. I can't thinkof a time that I used to solvent
based paint in the house. Youknow, I just don't do that.
And so I figured, not abig deal. Maybe other people are in
that boat. Well, then Istarted thinking about it a little further,
and I realized, oh, solventbased, solvent, thinn polyurithanes, I
(15:13):
love using those. Those would beaffected. Interior stains, yeah, I
know that I use that, andthat would be affected. Those are oil
based. What about deck products thingslike that. There are performance coatings that
have to withstand severe abrasion or waterresistance, those kind of things. Right,
So, I think most of usare going to be affected, you
know, some of us more,some of us is just a little bit.
(15:35):
But when we're affected, it's gonnahit us at some point, and
we're going to realize that. Now. I think the natural outfloat from that
is to wonder about, well,the water thinned alternatives, the water based
stuff, the new stuff, it'sgoing to be just as good, right,
you know, for the polyurthane,there's water based polyerthane that's just as
good as the oil based right,right, How do these water thinned alternatives
(15:56):
work compared in a lot of cases? That's true. Oh, you know,
water based paint technology has just reallyadvanced tremendously in the last twenty years,
partly due to these regulations that startedback in nineteen ninety seven. Requirement
is the mother of invention. Yeahright. I don't know if that's how
that said, but I said it. Well, I've changed it to requirement
(16:18):
and write it down, put itin the books from here on out.
Yea. So there have been tremendousadvances and for a lot of things,
You're right, Dan, you don'tneed to use oil based paints anymore like
you used to twenty years ago becauseof that advance in technology. But there
are still some areas that it's difficult, and I want to get into that.
I think we're going to talk aboutthat on the next segment. We're
(16:41):
going to dig, you know,expressly into some different scenarios, deck cooating,
stain blocking, primers, stains,polyrethans, and we'll talk about water
based versus oil based, Yeah,and all of that pros and cons.
Now, why would we talk aboutthat. I'm sure there's people wondering if
I can't get the oil based anyway, there's no point and having that conversation.
But there's a very interesting caveat tothis whole story, and it really
(17:06):
hits us in a very unique way, right, that's right, Yeah,
repcite in particular, in this newstate regulation, there is a clause in
there that says that any company thatproduces less than a million gallons of paint
a year has a five year deferral. So basically, we can spend the
next five years working on developing theselower voc products while we continue to sell
(17:30):
the traditional items that we've sold forever. So that's that's really exciting that it
puts us in a very unique situation. Yeah, because we make our own
lines of paint, and pretty muchif you're using a solvent based product,
a traditional solvent based product, andyou're really concerned that that's going way,
because when are these gone? Arethese like well off the shelves now?
(17:52):
Oh yeah, some of the nationalbrands. At the beginning of January,
they already stopped bringing these things intothe state of Michigan. Yeah, and
we'll be able to keep making themand selling them. We've got five years
to work on our reformulation, whichis really happy for us because I know
Bratt in our lab yea our mainchemist. Yeah. Another one because yeah,
(18:14):
heading into this trying to reformulate allour products. And then he heard
there was a grace period that cameout just recently. We've got five more
years, all right, So thatkind of sums up the whole thing.
So you can get those traditional coatings, the oil based stains, exterior interior,
oil based, Polly's high performance coatings. We can still sell those products,
yes, and that that part's reallygood. So that's why we're going
(18:36):
to take a break right now,and then in the next segment we're going
to talk about the pros and consof water based versus solvent based in a
bunch of different areas. We're gonnahit that next right after news and Weather
in Grand Rapids and a rep Colliterewind in Detroit. Dan, you can
wait with me. You don't haveany choice. You're on the show.
Now, this is this is yourthing? Chair? All right, we'll
be back in just a minute.Stick around, and we're bad if you're
(19:00):
listening to the Rep Coollite home improvementshow and we're taking boring, potentially boring
topics and turning them into radio gold. Yeah. I'm Dan Hanson and I'm
here with Dan Altina, president ofRep Collite And yeah, you're the temporary
host for a while. Yeah,how does that feel? Is that?
Is that fun? Tar? It'sgreat? Well, so far we've got
two segments in. Yeah, wellso that's all I can say. As
(19:21):
you wake up every morning, areyou like super giddy that you get to
come and do this? Yeah,it's really fun. Yep. I've been
singing in the shower just to getmy voice horm. Great. Great.
I'm glad you lived somewhere other thanwhere I live. That's nice. Anyway,
this segment we're talking about last twosegments, I guess this one and
the previous one, we're talking aboutMichigan's new VOC regulations for paint and Coding's
(19:45):
They went into effect in April twentytwenty three, this April, and really
to get the full information, checkout the past segment. You can go
to repcollite dot com when the showis finished and you can find the podcast
there, you know, right onthe home page. But to summarize Dan,
just summarize Michigan's new VOC regulations inthree sentences in song. The amount
(20:15):
of VOCs that are we're allowed tohave in encoding have gone down, okay,
fairly dramatically. So. Paint manufacturers, paint retailers all over the place,
everywhere you go, are largely removinga lot of the solvent based stuff
from their shelves right no longer availablefor sale, just not getting that stuff
anymore. That's the big impact.Even the water based products that we're familiar
(20:37):
with, a lot of those arebeing reformulated to hit certain VOC limits now
and hopefully, you know a lotof those things won't. You won't see
performance changes. That's certainly the goal. That's the goal. But if you
see things working a little differently,it's most likely what's going on, and
there's no way around it. It'sjust it's the regulations they have to be
(21:00):
met. So that's what's going on. Again. There's a lot more information
and also we dug into what VOCswere and all of that that's all in
the previous segment. Check it outin this segment. I want to get
specific now. As we mentioned inthe last segment, Repcolite can still make
and sell solvent thin products. There'sa clause or a little escape hatch in
(21:22):
the regulations that applies to us.Yeah, as a small manufacturer, we
can continue to make these things forseveral years. Yet as we developed the
new Lovoc alternatives, yeah, weneed time to get that figured out,
so we'll be working on that.But in the meantime, we can sell
these traditional codings to anybody. Sothe big question is why would that matter?
Now? There are contractors out therewho really love certain products, certain
(21:48):
solvent thin products that they love,and they're they're bummed to see them go,
and whether they shop with us ornot, at least there's an alternative
now, because chances are we makesomething like what they've been using and we
can help you with that. Buta lot of homeowners maybe are thinking,
no big deal, right, right, I haven't used solvent based something in
a while. Anyway, at leastthat's what we think. I tend to
(22:10):
have that general glancing thought when Ilook at what I've done in the past
a little bit, but I'm largelythinking about my wall paints and stuff.
You know, that's where I'm mostlyusing paints, and those are on water
based. So why would this matterto me? Well, like I mentioned
in the last segment, there area lot of solvent thinned water oil based
products that I'm using that I don'tthink about, polyurethanes, interior stains,
exterior stains, my deck coatings,the deckcoatings that I really like to use
(22:34):
are all solvent based. And youknow, I'm getting them from Recalite,
but if you get them from somewhereelse, they're gone, right, pretty
much gone from the shelves. Sowe're left with water based alternatives. And
that's what I want to really diginto here is how are these water based
alternatives? How do they fare?And I think this will be good for
anybody out there, whether you're interestedin this conversation about VOCs and regulations are
(22:56):
not. It's nice to know whya solvent based coating might be better,
it might be worse than the waterbased alternative. So let's start with stain
blocking primers. It's something we youknow, every now and then a situation
arises and it happens a fair amount. I'm thinking about water stains on a
ceiling. You know, you hada leak, you got the big brown
water stain forming, you got aprime that if you just put water based
(23:19):
paint over top of that, itjust bleeds through continues to another. Another
version of that is a knotty board. You know, you put water based
paint it and those knots bleed throughand bleed through and bleed through. You
can put one hundred coats of painton it and you'll still see where that
not. Well, yeah, Idid that in a basement. Mine was
it was a water stain. Butyes, the same thing happens with trim,
you know pine with all the knots. But I had the water stain.
(23:41):
And this was right after I startedat Repcllite. I could get discounted
paint, but I did not knowthat much about the paint that I was
getting. You know, I wasjust a week or two in. I
had a new house. Let's justgo. So I'm painting in my basement
and I remember painting this wall thathadn't been painted before, and this one
little ring came through. By thetime I got to the around the room,
(24:03):
that's bled through to the surface.So I painted it again, and
then I bled through again. AndI went back and I painted again.
I watched it bleed through, justcame through that fast. And so then
I went to the store and toldthem what was going on, some crazy
magic happening in my house. It'sthe water stain. Put this on it,
and you're good to go. Theysold me a solvent based product,
a white pigmented shellac. I putthat on, blocked it. It's a
(24:26):
stain blocker. Now I could putmy water based paint on top of it.
Right, So let's talk about stainblocking for that instance. There are
a lot of water based stain blockersout there, you know. How do
they work for blocking out the kindof stains that we were just talking about.
Our experience is that it works abouteighty to nine percent of the time,
which sounds really good. So you'rein the all year you have to
(24:47):
repaint ten to twenty percent of yourhouse, you know, right, So,
yeah, they're not quite ready forprime time, and they're good.
They are good for a lot ofpurposes. But water based stain blockers cracked,
but they're not as good as thesolvent borner alternatives. Right. One
hundred percent of the time. Andyeah, if you're a contractor, that
(25:08):
eight I mean that's a huge that'sthat's money maker, you know, or
money losing. You can't afford tohave eighty percent of the time. You're
going to get good results one hundredpercent, right, it sounds really good.
That's where the solvent based products reallywork. If you're dealing with water
stains, knots in wood, stufflike that, smoke damage. Yeah,
at this point in time, youknow, stop out at any repcalite.
(25:30):
We can get you hooked up withthe right products that are gonna one hundred
percent of the time work. Right. We've got five more years that we
can still be doing that, right, all right, So stain blocking primers,
what about deck coatings and stuff likethat. Deck products, that's another
big one in our experience. We'vereally never seen a water born deck sealer
(25:51):
that holds up. And we sellthem too, where we're not just dissing
somebody else's products, right, Yeah, And in some cases people need to
use them and there are benefits toit. You know, you can go
on a damp deck, whereas asolvent based it needs to be completely dry.
But one of the issues that werun into with the water based I
(26:11):
mean, the thing I've run intoat home personally is that it just it
dried too fast to actually penetrate intothe wood. Yeah, and it's not
necessarily the speed of dry that causesthat. It's the if you would look
at it under a microscope, it'sthe molecular structure. It's the difference between
an emulsion and a solution. Youknow, a water based paint is in
emulsion, it's little glob of oildispersed in water, where solvent based coating
(26:36):
is a solution. It's all onething. And so when you're looking at
a piece of wood sander a microscope, you can see how much further an
oil based coating will penetrate compared toa water based just because those globs are
not so small in the In thewater based coating, they can't get into
the grain of the wood, sothey on the tower and then and they
(27:00):
wear off or whether off. Now. See, so you're saying it's not
because it tried. Now the instancethat I had, I applied it when
it was too hot, which didn'thelp. But you're saying that's not my
main problem. I mean, I'vegot let's not go into all of my
problems. But in this instance,let's not my man, who's got time
for that. I'd be interesting,it'd be interesting for you to get the
(27:21):
records out, medical records about allthe issues. It's yeah, it's or
the globlets. It's an inherent problemin the in the kind of the microscopic
structure of a water based coating versusa solvent based cording. Okay, it
just doesn't allow it to penetrate asso, bottom line, a solvent thin
(27:42):
debt coating is going to perform better. Generals will age more gracefully, it
won't peel. Right, what aboutrust inhibitive stuff. You know we've got
metal clad it's an oil based rustinhibitive product. What about water based versions
of that kind of a product.That seems counterintuitive, right, Yeah,
to put something water based to stopthat rust by putting water on top.
(28:03):
Yeah, again, because of thatmolecular structure of water based paints in the
way they dry. There are thenthis has to do with the stain blocking
ability as well. Water based paintsleave a little microscopic little channels that allow
moisture and air to pass through them, even though you really can't see that
(28:27):
that on a microscopic level, that'swhat's happening. And so it allows things
like a stain to bleed through whereit can't through a solvent based coating.
The same thing happens with the corrosionresistance. You know, it allows a
little bit of water, vapor orwater to get into the coating and makes
it less likely to withstand corrosion.The solvent won't allow that moisture depend barrier.
(28:52):
So we've got Durenamel DTM direct tometal. Yeah, that's a water
based product, correct, So you'resaying that's it's good. Yeah, I
wouldn't use it in an extreme situation. Right, That's where the solvent thin
products really stand out. And we'regonna have to push the envelope forward.
You know, the whole industry willas time goes by and really develop some
(29:15):
improvements in these water based products tomeet these needs. Because the needs aren't
going to go away, right,but the solutions to them, at least
the perfect solutions have. So yeah, big changes are coming. I've got
time for maybe one more. Anothergood one would be interior stains, all
right, say like you're going tobe staining the door water based stains dry
(29:40):
so quickly. We're constrained by theevaporation rate of water. And once they
are dry and you go back overthem again, you generally will see a
lap mark with the stain if yougo over the stain again. Yeah,
if you work back into it withyour cloth or whatever, now it'll parker
in that spot and it'll be blocked. Hard to get it to blend,
(30:03):
hard to get a water based stainto be look uniform. Oil based stains
are much more forgiving in that waythey work back into themselves and they allow
for more open time. You canmanipulate them longer. So if you have
something like an eight panel door withall this detail that you need to be
staining, it can be really difficultto do that with a water based stain
(30:26):
and make it look good. Sowater based stains not quite there yet.
Functionality or you know, for thatreason or application formation. Yeah, polyurethanes
water based polies are pretty good.Yeah, I would say those hold up
fairly well. That generally need maybeone extra coat. Yes, they're not
as high in solids to as asolvent based version, all right, and
then one last one and then we'llwrap it up. Just because it's it's
(30:48):
really been a big deal, especiallyin the Metro Detroit area. I know
we've been at our stores there andwe just bought those stores in January,
meeting customers out there, and alot of customers are concerned about satin impervo
Benjamin Moore's oil based product going away. Yeah, well it's gone, right,
there's just that's how that's going tobe. Repcollite makes an oil based
(31:10):
alternative is available, So let's talkabout that. If you're in the West
Michigan area. Of course, it'sit's an easy fix. You know.
I had to any Repcollite and talkto us about what you have been using
oil based wise, and we've probablygot an alternative. Like we said a
couple of times already, what aboutthe Metro Detroit area, they don't have
all of the Repcolite products in thestore because just tint machines and stuff we
(31:33):
need. Yeah, we're putting bothfeet forward to make sure that we get
those products in there as quickly aspossible. And mostly that's related to tinting.
You know, certainly anything primer ordex you or those are all pre
colored or white, and polyurithanes arejust clear, right, you can get
(31:55):
that tinting. That's in the nextmonth or so. We'll probably have that
all ndled on the east side ofthe state. The main thing about you
know, as far as interior trimpaints, oil based interior trim paints traditional
homes, that's how they were painted. What we see if we put water
base over that, if we don'tdo are very careful with preparation, is
peeling. So that's why we stickwith traditional codings in a lot of situations
(32:20):
in older homes. Newer homes notas big a deal. Right, Well,
if you do have that situation you'reconcerned about the solvent based products going
away again, even if you're inthe Metro Detroit area, stop out at
any rep Colite location, talk tous about what you're working with, what
you need an alternative for, andwe can start that conversation, even if
it's not in the store right now. We'll figure out a way to get
you what you need and we canalmost guaranteed solve your problem. And if
(32:44):
you're interested, you know, becausethere's the other side of things where you
might be thinking, I'm glad tosee this solvent based products go away.
I've got certain things that I've beenforced to use that. I don't want
to use anymore. I want thosewater based alternatives, but I need to
know which one is the right one. If that's you, stop out at
any Rep Collite and tell us whatyou want to move away from and we
can steer you towards the best waterbased alternatives on the market. All right,
(33:08):
that's all the time we've got forthis. We're going to take a
break right now. When we comeback, we're gonna be talking about hoses.
Okay, Dan, you've been doinga ton of research. Yeah,
project at home. Yeah, we'regonna see once what you came up with.
Some interesting stuff. That's all justahead. Stick around. Well,
(33:30):
Dan, we want to talk abouthoses. I know that sounds ridiculously exciting,
but after the voc conversation we had, it's really really fun. You're
listening to the Rep Collite Home improvementshow sponsored by Benjamin Moore, and we're
talking about garden hoses. Right.This is something you're digging into right now,
trying to find the right one.All right, So what's going on
(33:51):
at your house that makes you needone? And what are the problems with
just the ordinary hoses? Well,I've got multiple situations going on at home,
and some of the hoses that Icurrently have are fine, but I've
also got some struggles and so settingup sprinklers. You know, we're mostly
familiar with things like a rubber hoseor a vinyl hose. That's probably what
you have in your garage and Ihave in mind. What are the differences
(34:13):
between the two. I want toknow which I have Rubber? Are you
generally black? Okay? And youthey're quite heavy and thick, Okay.
I'm a woose, so I wouldwant something lightweight. So I doubt if
I have rubber, you would probablynot want that then. Yeah, Vinyl
is much lighter, Okay. Unfortunately, vinyl gets kind of hard as it
ages, especially if it's interposed tothe sun, it can get a kink
(34:37):
in it that is permanent. Yeah, right, those are some of the
big disadvantages to the vinyl hose therecoal. When it's cold out, they're
stiff, and they don't they don'tstretch out. Yes, that's what I've
got because I was hauling one inlate fall. Yeah, and I was
trying to spread it out because Iwanted to use it, and it's sprung
(34:57):
back and hit me in the face, split my fore it open. It
was a hose related injury. It'spretty embarrassing to talk about and explain,
but I embraced it anyway. Soyes, vinyl, Yeah, vinyl is
what we mostly have, and there'sthese drawbacks. So what did you find
something that was more more resistant tokinking, less difficult to manage, so
(35:19):
I could stash it out of theway when I didn't need it without it
being this big mess on the ground, all right, So um, what
I found was the hybrid polymer hose, which is kind of a new thing,
okay, and it's really quite interesting. It's quite flexible, very flexible
compared to a vinyl hose, doesn'tkink, or if it does kink,
(35:39):
you can easily unkink it and itdoesn't stay and it doesn't come back right.
The king doesn't stay in it right. It's quite unique material and it's
what is the coil hybrid. Well, sometimes people just you'll just see it
called a polymer hose. Sometimes it'scalled a hybrid polymer hose. How does
it price out compared to they're generallya little bit more money than rubber or
(36:02):
vinyl weight wise weight, they're lighterthan Okay, they're lighter than the vinyl.
Yeah, a little more expensive,but no kinking. Right. A
lot of hoses say that they don'tkink. Yeah, well these initially a
lot of them don't. Okay,over time that they start to kink.
All right, So this one shouldstay nice through its expected lifespan whatever that
(36:23):
is. All right, somebody drivesover it with a car, I don't
know, okay, But so thenthe other thing I'm looking at is what
the ends of these hoses are.Some of them, cheaper hoses have plastic
fittings or maybe aluminum. The nicehoses have brass fittings on the end.
Brass is much nicer, it's easierto get on and off from the faucet,
(36:44):
it's heavier duty, it doesn't corrodeplastic. The threads can strip.
That makes sense. Um, Sothat's the other thing I'm looking for.
So I'm going to get myself anice hybrid polymer hose with brass fittings.
So now you've got somebody that youknow, I don't remember who it was,
but it's using one of these andhas really has had really good results
(37:07):
with it. It seems to meetwhat the claims are Yeah, that's what
opened my eyes to it was actuallyseeing it in person and in action it
really worked great. So who wasthat and what situation are they using it
as in their guard in your garden? Dragging it around? Yeah? So
they'll coil it back up and itwill uncoil nicely. Yeah, you can
put you know, just coil itup. It coils up very easily and
(37:30):
uncoils very easily, unlike most hoseswhere you're fighting it and it doesn't want
to bend that way. And youknow, this hose is just very supple
and easy to maneuver. All right, So you're gonna it's a I can't
remember a hybrid hybrid polymer hose.Hybrid polymer hose a little more expensive.
We'll put a link in the shownotes to check it out. You've got
(37:50):
all kinds of yard stuff you're tryingto do. You're trying to grow grass
or something, right, trying tolong story short, I'm trying to get
my yard suitable for a graduation party. Oh yeah, see, you should
do what I do and just nothave one. We did that with the
first kid because of COVID. Ohdid you that's so lucky? I know,
right, now that's why I feel. Yeah, that kid really made
(38:12):
it easy on us. Sure wishwe had COVID back anyway. We'll put
a link in the show notes forthe hose and then I want you to
let us know how it worked.Oh yeah, when you've got a few
of them on the yard, forsure. Because I hate the hoses that
I've got. I'd like to findsomething decent. Yeah, but I don't
want to just keep buying and buyingand buying. All right, that's all
the time we've got. We're gonnahave to wrap it up. If you
want to catch this one again,you can find it online at Rep coal
(38:35):
Light dot com. And while you'rethere, make sure you subscribe to the
podcast. You can click the bannerright on the home page and that we'll
take you to a spot where youcan subscribe and you'll never miss another episode.
Now, all right, whatever youdo today makes your paints a part
of it. The Rep co lightestores are all open waiting to help.
I'm Dan Hanson and I'm Dan Altina. Thanks for listening.
Well, good morning, everybody,Happy Saturday. You're listening to the Rep
Coalite Home improvement show sponsored by BenjaminMoore. I'm Dan Hansen and I'm here
with Dan Altina, president of RepColllite Paints Danks. Thanks for being here.
Yeah two, Dan's for the nextlittle bit. And you're here because
Haley's on maternity leave now and she'llbe gone till I think end of August
(00:23):
or September. It's going to beforever, right, it'll feel like it
for you. It's gonna feel likean eternity until she's back. We thank
you for filling in. It's it'smuch better to talk to somebody than to
sit here and just talk to myself. I can imagine and imagine that there's
people listening anyway. So we're gladyou're here. I do have breaking news
before we get to the show itself. Haley did have her baby, so
(00:46):
the day after Mother's Day, rightin the morning, so she I think
the baby arrived at three nineteen inthe morning on Monday, middle of the
night. Yeah, so almost madeMother's Day, which would have been really
fun, but came the next day. Baby's healthy, Little little Wally Wallace
is healthy. Mom and dad aredoing well. So we told you that
we'd update you when the baby came. The baby has come. I've done
(01:08):
my job awesome, right, Sowe've got a lot of stuff we're going
to talk about today. We'll betalking about some VOC regulations, some changes
to the Michigan VOC regulations for paintingcodings and stuff like that. What that
looks like, how that plays out. We'll be covering that. We'll also
be talking about garden hoses, right, which sounds I mean, yeah,
(01:30):
this is really good stuff. Inthe first segment. Right now, we've
only got a little bit because theVOC conversation is pretty big. Before we
get to that, let's talk,you know, in honor of Hailey and
the baby and all of that birthstories things leading up to that. Do
you have anything interesting. I've gota couple of things that were really funny.
(01:51):
I thought they were funny. Idon't know how my my wife felt
about the thing, but you yeah, I don't know if funny is the
right word, but yeah, Ithink every everybody their first child goes way
overboard with analyzing everything right the firsttime around, and so that was our
situation too. We had a lotof time on our hands to think about
(02:12):
how this is all going to go. Sure, and part of the process,
we decided we should have a midwife. Midwife kind of just helps this
along, helps the process along,um, a guide so to speak,
right, like Gandolf, right forthe Lord of the Rings aficionados. Right,
Yeah, so Gandolf comes to helpyou through this birth process. Right.
(02:32):
It's not as magical as it mightseem. So, yeah, we
had it all mapped out, thisis how it will go. This will
be her role, this will bemy role, this will be my wife's
role. And we had it allpretty well mapped out and fairly confident that
this is what was going to happen. Well, well, here's when you
(02:53):
find out that that's how right.So our son, Emmett he did not
want to come out. So afteralmost two days of labor, oh,
the doctor said, all right,we have to We'll have to just do
a C section here, so youplan for months. Yeah, and the
(03:14):
midwife standing right there, going,oh, well, okay, that's it
for me. Then I guess I'mdone. Oh man, no point at
all. So it's a little disappointing, right, I mean to have done
all this preparation to disappointing for Gandolftoo, Yeah, right right right?
For me? What we had,Um, yes, the first kids,
that's always you know, you completelyoveranalyze everything. Yeah, after that,
(03:37):
it all feels like old hat.Yeah, So I remember, I don't
remember which child it was, butI remember it was a many I've had.
Yeah, I've got five, soI remember it was. Remember all
their names. I do, butit does take sometimes I've got to go
through a whole string of them beforewe land on the right one. But
it was a Wednesday night. Iremember that because it was Survivor night and
(03:58):
we're watching Survivor at home. Iam, my wife's on the couch.
I remember that, and I rememberher saying, like at about eight thirty.
The show starts at eight, goestill nine. She says, at
eight thirty, I think we gotto go to the hospital now. And
I said, but you know,it's like the Survivor's not done and you
know, they got to do thetribal council and all of that. I
(04:18):
said, like, are you sureor we don't want to overdo this and
she said, oh, I said, just can we wait just for a
minute? And she said, well, yeah, we can wait a little.
So we did, and then itgot to be like quarter to nine,
and she said we gotta go.I said, but like fifteen more
minutes because they might vote Rupert offand I want to see if Rupert stays.
(04:42):
And okay, she was very accommodating. Yea, we stayed and watched.
We got to the hospital right afterwards, you know, I drove in
and they get her into the roomand they prepper. They say, oh
my gosh, you're like dialing sevenor something like. Yes. They said,
what were you thinking? And shesaid he had to see survivor and
how it ended, and oh,I felt like crawling in a hole.
(05:05):
But everything was fine, right,and I came out reasonably well right,
right. So I don't know howHaley handled that. I don't. I
told her that story, and everywoman that I tell that too, just
recoils with horror. The guys kindof laughing. I'm practically reciting. Well,
I was a very shallow and selfishperson at that point. I've changed
(05:26):
now. Anyway, Congratulations to Haley. We're going to take a break right
now, and when we come back, what we're talking about voc regulations and
what that means for everybody out there. That's all just ahead, stick around,
and we're back. You're listening tothe Rep Collite Home Improvement Show sponsored
by Benjamin Moore. I'm Dan Hansonand I'm in the studio with Dan Altina,
(05:47):
president of Rep Collite Paints, thetemporary Haley. Yes, I'm filling
in for her while she's on theYes. So, Dan, you had
your first segment. You got thatout of the way. You feel good.
I'm all jacked, all punted out, ready to go excellent. Now
let's jump into something really boring.So we covered something really fun. Now
we're gonna do something really boring.And it's not going to be boring,
(06:10):
but it's potentially you know, it'sSaturday morning, it's are already reaching for
the dial here? No, No, They're used to this. This is
how it works. It's Saturday morning, it's early. I understand that this
is the time slot we've been given. I've asked for longer. I've asked
for different times of the day,but this is what I get. You
play the hand you're deal. I'mso I'm playing this hand. I want
to talk about some voc regulations thathave gone into effect in Michigan as of
(06:34):
April. Now, maybe some ofyou right for paint Now, maybe some
of the listeners you've heard of this, you knew this was coming, Maybe
this is brand new news to you. Maybe you're wondering why it even mattered
to you, or we're going toget to all of that, because the
new regulations are pretty sweeping and they'regoing to fact topic some big changes.
Right, So as we dig intothis, let's just start with what VOCs
(06:57):
are in the first place. Youknow, what are they? And why
are we so worried about regulating Wehear the term all the time, VOCs,
right, you know, in fact, people use this on a regular
basis in the stores, but alot of us don't really know exactly what
that means. We think it meansstinky stuff, right. We don't want
stinky stuff, and that's not necessarilythe case, right, So what are
VOCs? Why are we worried aboutregulating them in the first place. So,
(07:19):
on a very simple level, VOCsstands for volatile organic compounds. Volatile
means it can evaporate at room temperature. Organic compounds are compounds that contain carbon.
Okay, So it's as simple asthat. Now that involves thousands hundreds
of thousands maybe of chemicals, andnot all of those, of course,
(07:42):
are in paint. So what we'retalking about is the regulated group of materials
as smaller. Okay, but theyhave a certain effect, which is they're
called photochemically reactive, which means whenwhen these things evaporate and they're exposed to
sunlight, they generate ozone, boththree and ozone. You maybe heard about
(08:07):
that too. Oh yeah, youknow, way back in the seventies,
there's the ozone hole and it's growing. It's in the upper atmosphere and we're
all gonna burn to death or somethingwas well, I remember it, yeah,
the eighties. I remember elementary schooland being terrified. Yeah, it's
just driven into us that it waslike an apocalyptic thing. Oh yeah,
we were all toast. So ozonein the upper atmosphere is very good.
It helps shield the earth from UVrays. Down at ground level, it's
(08:31):
bad. It causes all sorts ofadverse health effects, respiratory things as my
emphysema, and even in places wherethere's recorded history of large amounts of VOCs
in the air, there's higher incidenceof lung cancer. So it's just a
it's a it's a potentially very harmfulchemical. So to have a lot of
(08:54):
that around it's odorless. Right,If there's a lot of that in the
air, it's gonna have an effecton so everybody's health. So these chemicals
aren't necessarily right, and then eses themselves. These organic chemicals aren't what
we're concerned about to as far asour health is concerned. It's the ozone
(09:15):
that's formed when they're in the presenceof sunlight. Okay, that's what we're
concerned. That's the part we're concernedabout. But you can have something that's
really stinky that's not a vocone asan example, super stinky I mean nail
polish remover, yep um. Andthen there are other things that are that
our VOCs that are completely olderless allright, So that whole older thing has
(09:37):
nothing to do with it. It'sthe ozone that's generated because they're photo chemically
reactive, correct react in the sunlight. Ozone's created, and we got a
problem. It comes from a varietyof different sources. Yeah, not just
paint. Paint is a big one, but it's nothing compared really in size
to say power plants and automobiles.Now, over the last you know,
(09:58):
several decades, all of these things, paint, automobiles, power plants have
all been regulated for the effect ofreducing the amount of VOCs that they're generating.
So our turn now in Michigan withpaint has come all right, So
that's why they're regulated health issues thingslike that. Let's talk about why they're
(10:22):
in paint in the first place.You know, the question might be,
well, if they're bad, youknow, why don't we just get rid
of them entirely. Well, they'reneeded in paint. They actually play an
important role. So both oil basedand water based paints contain VOCs. Oil
based paints will contain much more byvolume than a water based paint, but
they're necessary in all coatings for differentreasons. They act as a solvent in
(10:43):
an oil based paint and makes itthin so you can spread it out.
In water based paints, they havealso different characteristics, like they'll act as
an anti freeze. They act asa coalescing agent, which is a fancy
word that we don't need to getinto what that means. They have these
sort of effects that boost the performanceof paints. Right, So that's why
(11:07):
they're necessary. When you remove thementirely it becomes very difficult to work with,
yep, and maybe not very durable. Right, Okay, so that's
why they're in there. They playan important role. Now let's talk about
you know what the new regulations inMichigan look like. You know, how
is that going to affect us?What's happening with all of us? So
the regulation covers a bunch of differentcategories, maybe thirty different categories of coatings,
(11:33):
everything from asphalt coatings to you know, traffic marking paints, you know,
line striping paint on parking lots.They all all these different categories have
different VOC limits. The first nationalrule was established in nineteen ninety seven to
set some kind of standards. Beforein nineteen ninety seven, there was no
regulation. What it was the wildWest. Yep, you could put it
(11:56):
one hundred percent VOCs whatever you wantedto do. So now in ninety seven
they started to reduce VOCs on anational level, and then states started to
say, hey, you know,we want to take this little be a
little more aggressive. We want tohave rules too. Yeah, we want
to have our own rules. Wewant to have special rules. And this
is California mostly kind of has ledthe charge, not only in paints,
(12:18):
but also in automobiles and stuff likethat as far as the missions go.
So there's been this progression over thelast twenty five thirty years to reduce the
amount of VO season paint. Andthey do this by targeting different maximum amounts
that can be in different types ofpaints. Okay, because some types of
paints are more dependent on the presenceof VOCs than others. All right,
(12:41):
all right, so what's happening inMichigan? Then what are we getting?
What's it going to look like forus? Michigan is going from the least
restrictive regulation, this national rule thatwas established in nineteen ninety seven, to
essentially the most restrictive regulation, whichis there's only a handful of states that
(13:01):
are on this much restriction. Okay, And so what that's gonna do is
it's gonna mean that some of theproducts that we're used to using and having
in our stores we can't sell anymoreand you can't use anymore. So largely
solvent thin products, oil based productsjust going away. Yeah. We in
(13:22):
a lot of cases we're able totry to formulate down formulate some of those
VOCs out by either finding replacements thatare not VOCs, you know, solvent
that doesn't photochemically react, for example. In some cases, we just can't
take enough of it out. Soyou keep saying we are you speaking rep
collection specific Yeah, that's what Iwanted to get out. So it's not
(13:45):
just us, it's everybody out there. And some are able to reformulate certain
products. Other products are just flatgonna go away, right, And it's
also helpful to understand that this isa very interesting map that's playing out as
far as what the regulations are indifferent states. What might be available in
(14:07):
Ohio is not available in Michigan orvice versa. Okay, It's kind of
an interesting landscape that way. Sois there going to be a black market
that arises? I know when theyrestricted the flushes of toilets, there was
a black market. I wouldn't besurprised. You know, the industry has
been very um, you know,proactive with the government and all this to
(14:30):
try to do the right thing.Okay, I guess is the way to
say it. All Right, Sowe're a lot of these solvent thin products
are going away. Water based productswill be largely reformulated to fit under whatever
regulations the limits are, and maybeyou know, people out there are attempted
to think. I initially was temptedto think. Now, I knew it
affected me because I work here,you know, so I knew this was
(14:52):
going to affect me. But homepersonally, I don't know, is it
really going to be that big ofa deal for me. I use mostly
water based paints. I can't thinkof a time that I used to solvent
based paint in the house. Youknow, I just don't do that.
And so I figured, not abig deal. Maybe other people are in
that boat. Well, then Istarted thinking about it a little further,
and I realized, oh, solventbased, solvent, thinn polyurithanes, I
(15:13):
love using those. Those would beaffected. Interior stains, yeah, I
know that I use that, andthat would be affected. Those are oil
based. What about deck products thingslike that. There are performance coatings that
have to withstand severe abrasion or waterresistance, those kind of things. Right,
So, I think most of usare going to be affected, you
know, some of us more,some of us is just a little bit.
(15:35):
But when we're affected, it's gonnahit us at some point, and
we're going to realize that. Now. I think the natural outfloat from that
is to wonder about, well,the water thinned alternatives, the water based
stuff, the new stuff, it'sgoing to be just as good, right,
you know, for the polyurthane,there's water based polyerthane that's just as
good as the oil based right,right, How do these water thinned alternatives
(15:56):
work compared in a lot of cases? That's true. Oh, you know,
water based paint technology has just reallyadvanced tremendously in the last twenty years,
partly due to these regulations that startedback in nineteen ninety seven. Requirement
is the mother of invention. Yeahright. I don't know if that's how
that said, but I said it. Well, I've changed it to requirement
(16:18):
and write it down, put itin the books from here on out.
Yea. So there have been tremendousadvances and for a lot of things,
You're right, Dan, you don'tneed to use oil based paints anymore like
you used to twenty years ago becauseof that advance in technology. But there
are still some areas that it's difficult, and I want to get into that.
I think we're going to talk aboutthat on the next segment. We're
(16:41):
going to dig, you know,expressly into some different scenarios, deck cooating,
stain blocking, primers, stains,polyrethans, and we'll talk about water
based versus oil based, Yeah,and all of that pros and cons.
Now, why would we talk aboutthat. I'm sure there's people wondering if
I can't get the oil based anyway, there's no point and having that conversation.
But there's a very interesting caveat tothis whole story, and it really
(17:06):
hits us in a very unique way, right, that's right, Yeah,
repcite in particular, in this newstate regulation, there is a clause in
there that says that any company thatproduces less than a million gallons of paint
a year has a five year deferral. So basically, we can spend the
next five years working on developing theselower voc products while we continue to sell
(17:30):
the traditional items that we've sold forever. So that's that's really exciting that it
puts us in a very unique situation. Yeah, because we make our own
lines of paint, and pretty muchif you're using a solvent based product,
a traditional solvent based product, andyou're really concerned that that's going way,
because when are these gone? Arethese like well off the shelves now?
(17:52):
Oh yeah, some of the nationalbrands. At the beginning of January,
they already stopped bringing these things intothe state of Michigan. Yeah, and
we'll be able to keep making themand selling them. We've got five years
to work on our reformulation, whichis really happy for us because I know
Bratt in our lab yea our mainchemist. Yeah. Another one because yeah,
(18:14):
heading into this trying to reformulate allour products. And then he heard
there was a grace period that cameout just recently. We've got five more
years, all right, So thatkind of sums up the whole thing.
So you can get those traditional coatings, the oil based stains, exterior interior,
oil based, Polly's high performance coatings. We can still sell those products,
yes, and that that part's reallygood. So that's why we're going
(18:36):
to take a break right now,and then in the next segment we're going
to talk about the pros and consof water based versus solvent based in a
bunch of different areas. We're gonnahit that next right after news and Weather
in Grand Rapids and a rep Colliterewind in Detroit. Dan, you can
wait with me. You don't haveany choice. You're on the show.
Now, this is this is yourthing? Chair? All right, we'll
be back in just a minute.Stick around, and we're bad if you're
(19:00):
listening to the Rep Coollite home improvementshow and we're taking boring, potentially boring
topics and turning them into radio gold. Yeah. I'm Dan Hanson and I'm
here with Dan Altina, president ofRep Collite And yeah, you're the temporary
host for a while. Yeah,how does that feel? Is that?
Is that fun? Tar? It'sgreat? Well, so far we've got
two segments in. Yeah, wellso that's all I can say. As
(19:21):
you wake up every morning, areyou like super giddy that you get to
come and do this? Yeah,it's really fun. Yep. I've been
singing in the shower just to getmy voice horm. Great. Great.
I'm glad you lived somewhere other thanwhere I live. That's nice. Anyway,
this segment we're talking about last twosegments, I guess this one and
the previous one, we're talking aboutMichigan's new VOC regulations for paint and Coding's
(19:45):
They went into effect in April twentytwenty three, this April, and really
to get the full information, checkout the past segment. You can go
to repcollite dot com when the showis finished and you can find the podcast
there, you know, right onthe home page. But to summarize Dan,
just summarize Michigan's new VOC regulations inthree sentences in song. The amount
(20:15):
of VOCs that are we're allowed tohave in encoding have gone down, okay,
fairly dramatically. So. Paint manufacturers, paint retailers all over the place,
everywhere you go, are largely removinga lot of the solvent based stuff
from their shelves right no longer availablefor sale, just not getting that stuff
anymore. That's the big impact.Even the water based products that we're familiar
(20:37):
with, a lot of those arebeing reformulated to hit certain VOC limits now
and hopefully, you know a lotof those things won't. You won't see
performance changes. That's certainly the goal. That's the goal. But if you
see things working a little differently,it's most likely what's going on, and
there's no way around it. It'sjust it's the regulations they have to be
(21:00):
met. So that's what's going on. Again. There's a lot more information
and also we dug into what VOCswere and all of that that's all in
the previous segment. Check it outin this segment. I want to get
specific now. As we mentioned inthe last segment, Repcolite can still make
and sell solvent thin products. There'sa clause or a little escape hatch in
(21:22):
the regulations that applies to us.Yeah, as a small manufacturer, we
can continue to make these things forseveral years. Yet as we developed the
new Lovoc alternatives, yeah, weneed time to get that figured out,
so we'll be working on that.But in the meantime, we can sell
these traditional codings to anybody. Sothe big question is why would that matter?
Now? There are contractors out therewho really love certain products, certain
(21:48):
solvent thin products that they love,and they're they're bummed to see them go,
and whether they shop with us ornot, at least there's an alternative
now, because chances are we makesomething like what they've been using and we
can help you with that. Buta lot of homeowners maybe are thinking,
no big deal, right, right, I haven't used solvent based something in
a while. Anyway, at leastthat's what we think. I tend to
(22:10):
have that general glancing thought when Ilook at what I've done in the past
a little bit, but I'm largelythinking about my wall paints and stuff.
You know, that's where I'm mostlyusing paints, and those are on water
based. So why would this matterto me? Well, like I mentioned
in the last segment, there area lot of solvent thinned water oil based
products that I'm using that I don'tthink about, polyurethanes, interior stains,
exterior stains, my deck coatings,the deckcoatings that I really like to use
(22:34):
are all solvent based. And youknow, I'm getting them from Recalite,
but if you get them from somewhereelse, they're gone, right, pretty
much gone from the shelves. Sowe're left with water based alternatives. And
that's what I want to really diginto here is how are these water based
alternatives? How do they fare?And I think this will be good for
anybody out there, whether you're interestedin this conversation about VOCs and regulations are
(22:56):
not. It's nice to know whya solvent based coating might be better,
it might be worse than the waterbased alternative. So let's start with stain
blocking primers. It's something we youknow, every now and then a situation
arises and it happens a fair amount. I'm thinking about water stains on a
ceiling. You know, you hada leak, you got the big brown
water stain forming, you got aprime that if you just put water based
(23:19):
paint over top of that, itjust bleeds through continues to another. Another
version of that is a knotty board. You know, you put water based
paint it and those knots bleed throughand bleed through and bleed through. You
can put one hundred coats of painton it and you'll still see where that
not. Well, yeah, Idid that in a basement. Mine was
it was a water stain. Butyes, the same thing happens with trim,
you know pine with all the knots. But I had the water stain.
(23:41):
And this was right after I startedat Repcllite. I could get discounted
paint, but I did not knowthat much about the paint that I was
getting. You know, I wasjust a week or two in. I
had a new house. Let's justgo. So I'm painting in my basement
and I remember painting this wall thathadn't been painted before, and this one
little ring came through. By thetime I got to the around the room,
(24:03):
that's bled through to the surface.So I painted it again, and
then I bled through again. AndI went back and I painted again.
I watched it bleed through, justcame through that fast. And so then
I went to the store and toldthem what was going on, some crazy
magic happening in my house. It'sthe water stain. Put this on it,
and you're good to go. Theysold me a solvent based product,
a white pigmented shellac. I putthat on, blocked it. It's a
(24:26):
stain blocker. Now I could putmy water based paint on top of it.
Right, So let's talk about stainblocking for that instance. There are
a lot of water based stain blockersout there, you know. How do
they work for blocking out the kindof stains that we were just talking about.
Our experience is that it works abouteighty to nine percent of the time,
which sounds really good. So you'rein the all year you have to
(24:47):
repaint ten to twenty percent of yourhouse, you know, right, So,
yeah, they're not quite ready forprime time, and they're good.
They are good for a lot ofpurposes. But water based stain blockers cracked,
but they're not as good as thesolvent borner alternatives. Right. One
hundred percent of the time. Andyeah, if you're a contractor, that
(25:08):
eight I mean that's a huge that'sthat's money maker, you know, or
money losing. You can't afford tohave eighty percent of the time. You're
going to get good results one hundredpercent, right, it sounds really good.
That's where the solvent based products reallywork. If you're dealing with water
stains, knots in wood, stufflike that, smoke damage. Yeah,
at this point in time, youknow, stop out at any repcalite.
(25:30):
We can get you hooked up withthe right products that are gonna one hundred
percent of the time work. Right. We've got five more years that we
can still be doing that, right, all right, So stain blocking primers,
what about deck coatings and stuff likethat. Deck products, that's another
big one in our experience. We'vereally never seen a water born deck sealer
(25:51):
that holds up. And we sellthem too, where we're not just dissing
somebody else's products, right, Yeah, And in some cases people need to
use them and there are benefits toit. You know, you can go
on a damp deck, whereas asolvent based it needs to be completely dry.
But one of the issues that werun into with the water based I
(26:11):
mean, the thing I've run intoat home personally is that it just it
dried too fast to actually penetrate intothe wood. Yeah, and it's not
necessarily the speed of dry that causesthat. It's the if you would look
at it under a microscope, it'sthe molecular structure. It's the difference between
an emulsion and a solution. Youknow, a water based paint is in
emulsion, it's little glob of oildispersed in water, where solvent based coating
(26:36):
is a solution. It's all onething. And so when you're looking at
a piece of wood sander a microscope, you can see how much further an
oil based coating will penetrate compared toa water based just because those globs are
not so small in the In thewater based coating, they can't get into
the grain of the wood, sothey on the tower and then and they
(27:00):
wear off or whether off. Now. See, so you're saying it's not
because it tried. Now the instancethat I had, I applied it when
it was too hot, which didn'thelp. But you're saying that's not my
main problem. I mean, I'vegot let's not go into all of my
problems. But in this instance,let's not my man, who's got time
for that. I'd be interesting,it'd be interesting for you to get the
(27:21):
records out, medical records about allthe issues. It's yeah, it's or
the globlets. It's an inherent problemin the in the kind of the microscopic
structure of a water based coating versusa solvent based cording. Okay, it
just doesn't allow it to penetrate asso, bottom line, a solvent thin
(27:42):
debt coating is going to perform better. Generals will age more gracefully, it
won't peel. Right, what aboutrust inhibitive stuff. You know we've got
metal clad it's an oil based rustinhibitive product. What about water based versions
of that kind of a product.That seems counterintuitive, right, Yeah,
to put something water based to stopthat rust by putting water on top.
(28:03):
Yeah, again, because of thatmolecular structure of water based paints in the
way they dry. There are thenthis has to do with the stain blocking
ability as well. Water based paintsleave a little microscopic little channels that allow
moisture and air to pass through them, even though you really can't see that
(28:27):
that on a microscopic level, that'swhat's happening. And so it allows things
like a stain to bleed through whereit can't through a solvent based coating.
The same thing happens with the corrosionresistance. You know, it allows a
little bit of water, vapor orwater to get into the coating and makes
it less likely to withstand corrosion.The solvent won't allow that moisture depend barrier.
(28:52):
So we've got Durenamel DTM direct tometal. Yeah, that's a water
based product, correct, So you'resaying that's it's good. Yeah, I
wouldn't use it in an extreme situation. Right, That's where the solvent thin
products really stand out. And we'regonna have to push the envelope forward.
You know, the whole industry willas time goes by and really develop some
(29:15):
improvements in these water based products tomeet these needs. Because the needs aren't
going to go away, right,but the solutions to them, at least
the perfect solutions have. So yeah, big changes are coming. I've got
time for maybe one more. Anothergood one would be interior stains, all
right, say like you're going tobe staining the door water based stains dry
(29:40):
so quickly. We're constrained by theevaporation rate of water. And once they
are dry and you go back overthem again, you generally will see a
lap mark with the stain if yougo over the stain again. Yeah,
if you work back into it withyour cloth or whatever, now it'll parker
in that spot and it'll be blocked. Hard to get it to blend,
(30:03):
hard to get a water based stainto be look uniform. Oil based stains
are much more forgiving in that waythey work back into themselves and they allow
for more open time. You canmanipulate them longer. So if you have
something like an eight panel door withall this detail that you need to be
staining, it can be really difficultto do that with a water based stain
(30:26):
and make it look good. Sowater based stains not quite there yet.
Functionality or you know, for thatreason or application formation. Yeah, polyurethanes
water based polies are pretty good.Yeah, I would say those hold up
fairly well. That generally need maybeone extra coat. Yes, they're not
as high in solids to as asolvent based version, all right, and
then one last one and then we'llwrap it up. Just because it's it's
(30:48):
really been a big deal, especiallyin the Metro Detroit area. I know
we've been at our stores there andwe just bought those stores in January,
meeting customers out there, and alot of customers are concerned about satin impervo
Benjamin Moore's oil based product going away. Yeah, well it's gone, right,
there's just that's how that's going tobe. Repcollite makes an oil based
(31:10):
alternative is available, So let's talkabout that. If you're in the West
Michigan area. Of course, it'sit's an easy fix. You know.
I had to any Repcollite and talkto us about what you have been using
oil based wise, and we've probablygot an alternative. Like we said a
couple of times already, what aboutthe Metro Detroit area, they don't have
all of the Repcolite products in thestore because just tint machines and stuff we
(31:33):
need. Yeah, we're putting bothfeet forward to make sure that we get
those products in there as quickly aspossible. And mostly that's related to tinting.
You know, certainly anything primer ordex you or those are all pre
colored or white, and polyurithanes arejust clear, right, you can get
(31:55):
that tinting. That's in the nextmonth or so. We'll probably have that
all ndled on the east side ofthe state. The main thing about you
know, as far as interior trimpaints, oil based interior trim paints traditional
homes, that's how they were painted. What we see if we put water
base over that, if we don'tdo are very careful with preparation, is
peeling. So that's why we stickwith traditional codings in a lot of situations
(32:20):
in older homes. Newer homes notas big a deal. Right, Well,
if you do have that situation you'reconcerned about the solvent based products going
away again, even if you're inthe Metro Detroit area, stop out at
any rep Colite location, talk tous about what you're working with, what
you need an alternative for, andwe can start that conversation, even if
it's not in the store right now. We'll figure out a way to get
you what you need and we canalmost guaranteed solve your problem. And if
(32:44):
you're interested, you know, becausethere's the other side of things where you
might be thinking, I'm glad tosee this solvent based products go away.
I've got certain things that I've beenforced to use that. I don't want
to use anymore. I want thosewater based alternatives, but I need to
know which one is the right one. If that's you, stop out at
any Rep Collite and tell us whatyou want to move away from and we
can steer you towards the best waterbased alternatives on the market. All right,
(33:08):
that's all the time we've got forthis. We're going to take a
break right now. When we comeback, we're gonna be talking about hoses.
Okay, Dan, you've been doinga ton of research. Yeah,
project at home. Yeah, we'regonna see once what you came up with.
Some interesting stuff. That's all justahead. Stick around. Well,
(33:30):
Dan, we want to talk abouthoses. I know that sounds ridiculously exciting,
but after the voc conversation we had, it's really really fun. You're
listening to the Rep Collite Home improvementshow sponsored by Benjamin Moore, and we're
talking about garden hoses. Right.This is something you're digging into right now,
trying to find the right one.All right, So what's going on
(33:51):
at your house that makes you needone? And what are the problems with
just the ordinary hoses? Well,I've got multiple situations going on at home,
and some of the hoses that Icurrently have are fine, but I've
also got some struggles and so settingup sprinklers. You know, we're mostly
familiar with things like a rubber hoseor a vinyl hose. That's probably what
you have in your garage and Ihave in mind. What are the differences
(34:13):
between the two. I want toknow which I have Rubber? Are you
generally black? Okay? And youthey're quite heavy and thick, Okay.
I'm a woose, so I wouldwant something lightweight. So I doubt if
I have rubber, you would probablynot want that then. Yeah, Vinyl
is much lighter, Okay. Unfortunately, vinyl gets kind of hard as it
ages, especially if it's interposed tothe sun, it can get a kink
(34:37):
in it that is permanent. Yeah, right, those are some of the
big disadvantages to the vinyl hose therecoal. When it's cold out, they're
stiff, and they don't they don'tstretch out. Yes, that's what I've
got because I was hauling one inlate fall. Yeah, and I was
trying to spread it out because Iwanted to use it, and it's sprung
(34:57):
back and hit me in the face, split my fore it open. It
was a hose related injury. It'spretty embarrassing to talk about and explain,
but I embraced it anyway. Soyes, vinyl, Yeah, vinyl is
what we mostly have, and there'sthese drawbacks. So what did you find
something that was more more resistant tokinking, less difficult to manage, so
(35:19):
I could stash it out of theway when I didn't need it without it
being this big mess on the ground, all right, So um, what
I found was the hybrid polymer hose, which is kind of a new thing,
okay, and it's really quite interesting. It's quite flexible, very flexible
compared to a vinyl hose, doesn'tkink, or if it does kink,
(35:39):
you can easily unkink it and itdoesn't stay and it doesn't come back right.
The king doesn't stay in it right. It's quite unique material and it's
what is the coil hybrid. Well, sometimes people just you'll just see it
called a polymer hose. Sometimes it'scalled a hybrid polymer hose. How does
it price out compared to they're generallya little bit more money than rubber or
(36:02):
vinyl weight wise weight, they're lighterthan Okay, they're lighter than the vinyl.
Yeah, a little more expensive,but no kinking. Right. A
lot of hoses say that they don'tkink. Yeah, well these initially a
lot of them don't. Okay,over time that they start to kink.
All right, So this one shouldstay nice through its expected lifespan whatever that
(36:23):
is. All right, somebody drivesover it with a car, I don't
know, okay, But so thenthe other thing I'm looking at is what
the ends of these hoses are.Some of them, cheaper hoses have plastic
fittings or maybe aluminum. The nicehoses have brass fittings on the end.
Brass is much nicer, it's easierto get on and off from the faucet,
(36:44):
it's heavier duty, it doesn't corrodeplastic. The threads can strip.
That makes sense. Um, Sothat's the other thing I'm looking for.
So I'm going to get myself anice hybrid polymer hose with brass fittings.
So now you've got somebody that youknow, I don't remember who it was,
but it's using one of these andhas really has had really good results
(37:07):
with it. It seems to meetwhat the claims are Yeah, that's what
opened my eyes to it was actuallyseeing it in person and in action it
really worked great. So who wasthat and what situation are they using it
as in their guard in your garden? Dragging it around? Yeah? So
they'll coil it back up and itwill uncoil nicely. Yeah, you can
put you know, just coil itup. It coils up very easily and
(37:30):
uncoils very easily, unlike most hoseswhere you're fighting it and it doesn't want
to bend that way. And youknow, this hose is just very supple
and easy to maneuver. All right, So you're gonna it's a I can't
remember a hybrid hybrid polymer hose.Hybrid polymer hose a little more expensive.
We'll put a link in the shownotes to check it out. You've got
(37:50):
all kinds of yard stuff you're tryingto do. You're trying to grow grass
or something, right, trying tolong story short, I'm trying to get
my yard suitable for a graduation party. Oh yeah, see, you should
do what I do and just nothave one. We did that with the
first kid because of COVID. Ohdid you that's so lucky? I know,
right, now that's why I feel. Yeah, that kid really made
(38:12):
it easy on us. Sure wishwe had COVID back anyway. We'll put
a link in the show notes forthe hose and then I want you to
let us know how it worked.Oh yeah, when you've got a few
of them on the yard, forsure. Because I hate the hoses that
I've got. I'd like to findsomething decent. Yeah, but I don't
want to just keep buying and buyingand buying. All right, that's all
the time we've got. We're gonnahave to wrap it up. If you
want to catch this one again,you can find it online at Rep coal
(38:35):
Light dot com. And while you'rethere, make sure you subscribe to the
podcast. You can click the bannerright on the home page and that we'll
take you to a spot where youcan subscribe and you'll never miss another episode.
Now, all right, whatever youdo today makes your paints a part
of it. The Rep co lightestores are all open waiting to help.
I'm Dan Hanson and I'm Dan Altina. Thanks for listening.
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