November 1, 2024 • 12 mins
Journalist, lawyer and political commentator Gordon Chang joins the show to discuss his new book "Plan Red: China's Project To Destroy America" and how the presidential election impacts the relationship between the two countries.
Read Gordon Chang's book: https://www.amazon.com/Plan-Red-Chinas-Destroy-America/dp/1630062804
Read Gordon Chang's book: https://www.amazon.com/Plan-Red-Chinas-Destroy-America/dp/1630062804
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining us now. You can follow him on exit Gordon g. Chang.
He is the author of the already best selling number
one on Amazon plan Read China's Project to Destroy America,
and he's a frequent guest on this program. We always
appreciate his time. Gordon Chang joins us. Gordon, thank you
so much.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, thank you, Brian, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Absolutely. Let's start with the book and we'll work from there.
I mentioned last time the timing of this book and
why you wrote it when you wrote it. But as
you're kind of exploring more about what China presents as
a threat and a challenge to the United States, you
take it a step further by saying they have a
project to destroy America. What do you mean with that title.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I mean that China wants to make sure that the
American Republic no longer exists. But Communist Party believes it
is in an existential struggle with the US. And it's
not because of anything that we say or do, Bryan,
but it's because of who we are. You have an
insecure regime in Beijing is worried about the inspiration impact
of our values in form of governance on the Chinese people,
(01:03):
which means that the party believes it will never be
safe as long as there is freedom and democracy in
the US. So the party has made it very clear
is only going to be one survivor. It's either going
to be the People's Republic of China or the United
States of America, not both.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Gordon, as the Chinese no doubt anxiously await the results
of our election, this could go one of two very
different divergent ways as it pertains to China and Ji
Jinping and the leadership there in the Communist Party, can
you articulate in bullet point fashion exactly what those differences
would be. What China might do their actions in the
(01:41):
wake of a Kamala Harris victory as opposed to a
Donald Trump victory.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, any new American president and regardless of party regard,
regardless of ideology, will give China as period, because every
new president thinks that he or in maybe this case,
she can do better than his or her appretis us it.
This is a problem because not so much Kamala Harris,
but because right now China is pressing us and our
(02:08):
friends and allies really hard, and we do not have
time to give China any sort of leeway. The other
thing is we know that Kamala Harris is not that
interested in foreign policy. There's actually Seymour Hirsch reporting that
she actually ordered the director of the Office of National
Intelligence not to send her the President's Daily Brief, which
(02:28):
is the collection of US intelligence in the preceding twenty
four hours, comes in every morning. So this is going
to be learning on the job, and I think China
will try to take advantage of her.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
You know.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
On the other hand, you've got Trump. Trump's already been president,
probably less of a grace period, also because Trump is
probably pretty pissed about what China did in twenty twenty
to help Joe Biden win, And so I suspect that
Trump is going to be sort of roaring out of
the gate, guns blazing.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Gordon Change joining us, And again you can find his
book on Amazon plan read China's Project to Destroy America.
As we count down now four days left until the election, Gordon,
as you analyze it from a foreign policy standpoint, what
differences do you see? And you just kind of touched
on one of those in a second Trump administration versus
(03:18):
a first one. Should the former president win on Tuesday, night.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, my guess is that siegm Ping and Vladimir Putin
will probably be more circumspect. And the reason is it's
not because of Trump's policies. I mean, they don't like
Biden's policies, which means they probably wouldn't like a continuation
of his administration. With Kamala Harris, it's more just the
temperament of the two individuals. They are really scared of
(03:46):
Donald Trump returning to the Oval office because he's unpredictable.
I mean, he can do things which take them by surprise.
Sijmping was taken by surprise in fact, in April twenty
seventeen when he was at Mara Lago and Trump stood
up at dinner and said he had just ordered a
missile strike on a Chinese friend, which was Syria. And
the Chinese were pretty well behaved for their even because
(04:10):
they're pretty bad. They were pretty well behaved during Trump's
four years because they just did not want to take
Trump on. So I think that that's going to be
the defining difference. They look at Kamala Harris. They may
not like what she does, but they probably think they
can control her, or at least predict her. And that
makes them comfortable, and we we certainly don't want the
bad actors in the world feeling comfortable about the United States.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Speaking of those bad actors, Gordon, I follow you on
X and your many interviews on national media because you
tend to be one step ahead of the curve when
it comes to matters abroad, specifically regarding China. But this
one in particular, I've seen you commenting on at length
over these last several hours. Donald Trump just posting the
following on X formerly known as Twitter quote, I strongly
(04:54):
condemned the barbaric violence against Hindus, Christians and other minorities
who are getting attacked and looted by mobs in Bangladesh,
which remains in a total state of chaos. Continuing quote,
it would have never happened on my watch. Kamala and
Joe have ignored Hindus across the world and in America.
They have been a disaster from Israel to Ukraine to
our southern border. But we will make America strong again
(05:16):
and bring back peace through strength. Gordon, can you articulate
to our listeners about the situation in Bangladesh and why
there hasn't been an immediate response to it from the
Biden administration.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I think the Biden administration wants to give the new
government in Bangladesh a grace career for want of a
better term. They according to India, Biden really tipped the
scales against the existing prime minister, who is now out
and who was a friend of India. The new Prime
minister has presided over or has not been able to
(05:51):
control the violence, and that's why there is this continuing
disruption in chaos in Bangladesh right now. And I think
it favors the Chinese, certainly in favor India certainly doesn't
favor us. You know, I don't think that Biden owns
the problem, but Biden contributed a lot to the problem,
so I think he bears a large amount of responsibility
(06:11):
for what's going on there. And none of it is
good for the people of Bangladesh, and it's certainly not
good for the US and for the democracies in the region.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Gordon Chang, author of Plan Red, China's project at Destroy America,
joining us here on this four days before election day
twenty twenty four. Gordon, you and I have spoken at
length as well about the border crisis, and many people
automatically jump to the Mexican drug cartels or the Venezuelan
gangs pouring over. That's been a big topic, an issue
(06:41):
here locally in Aurora. That's become national news. But there's
the Chinese element to this as well, in particular as
it applies to the fentanyl issue. And I saw you
quote this following tweet. In Mexico, Ji Dang Xiang, a
Chinese citizen linked to both the Cartel de Sinaloa and
the Cartel Jalisco Nueva General Action, was arrested in Mexico
(07:02):
City on October thirty. First, can you walk us through
the nexus of the drug trade, the cartels in Mexico,
the producers of the base elements of fentanyl in China,
and how those drugs are getting across the border.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, those two cartels are the ones that primarily control
the fentanyl trades coming into the United States. They buy
precursor chemicals and pill presses from China and then they
employ Chinese technicians in Mexico to mix the precursors into fentanyl,
and then the gangs they sneak it across. They don't
even have to sneak it across, but it comes across
(07:36):
the open southern border, so China's very much involved in this. China,
these fentanyl gangs in China, they're large, they're well organized,
their international scope. They couldn't operate without the knowledge and
approval of the Communist Party. But we also know the
party fully supports the fentanyl gangs. Some of them are
actually state owned companies. But also we know that Chinese
diplomats give covered to the gangs. Chinese officials they inspect
(08:00):
every container that leaves China, and the fentanyl producers they
run their money through the Chinese state banking system in
Chinese own TikTok, which Beijing uses to promote its narratives.
It promotes illegal drug use in the United States. So
backing up the Chinese regime is one hundred percent for
what's going on, and that's seventy to seventy five thousand
(08:20):
Americans each year die from doses of elusive Chinese fentanyl.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Gordon. We've seen the evolution of sympathies for China in
specific form from Governor Tim Walls being very open about
his admiration for China, his many trips to China while
he was a younger man and kind of the nefarious
overlap there may be between the Chinese Communist Party and
Walls and maybe his interests. But this one really jumps
(08:46):
off the page to me as well. About a Chinese
Red Army parade in which two members holding US flags
Representative Grace Meng, Democrat New York and New York City's
own Mayor Eric Adams. What was this event and what's
going on here?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, this is one of a series of events that
take place in New York City where you have the
Chinese consulate in New York participate in these events, as
there was in this one, and this one was particularly
despicable because you had people dress up in People's Liberation
Army uniforms. They were singing Chinese songs, carrying Chinese flags.
(09:24):
This shows that there are some Chinese Americans who are
disloyal to our country and this is a growing problem
we have in New York. The Linda's Son indictment Linda
Son was a senior advisor to to New York governors
Andrew Pomo and the current one, Kathy Hochel. She's being
charged with being an agent for China, and from the
(09:48):
looks of things, she certainly was deeply involved in helping
the Communist Party promote its policies in New York State.
The reason is that the New York Democratic Party looks
to Chinese Americans for quotes, and Chinese Americans throughout New
York State, but especially in New York City, have these
very disturbing connections to the Communist Party.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Gordon a couple of final questions here. First one is
a quick hitter, and that is if Donald Trump is
victorious on Tuesdays, I hope and I believe that he
will be. Have there been any talks about you joining
a Trump administration and would you?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah? No, No, no talks about that at all. I'm
not really an official. If you want to be an
official in any administration, you've got to fight for it,
and I'm certainly not going to do that.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Following up on that, then this is a post from
you that I could not agree with more. We must
rely on China for nothing. You and I have spoken
many times in the past. I agree with Governor Ron
DeSantis his strong stance on China that we need to decouple.
We are too reliant. We are basically slaves to their
slave labor for so many of our products and services
and drugs, et cetera. If you were to profer advice
(10:57):
then to a Trump administration about the first step and
taking a step back from China from being less reliant
on China, what was he The first thing you would
advise on day one, January twenty twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Raised the tariffs. Trump in his talk with Maria Bartiromo
in February said he imposed at least sixty percent across
the board tariffs. And the other thing is just enforce
the Teriff Act of nineteen thirty which prohibits the importation
into the United States of goods made with forced labor.
Almost all of China's green products are made with slightly
(11:30):
weaker labor. Can't come into the US if we enforce
our laws, and many other Chinese products are also made
with prohibited labor. Enforce the law with the second thing,
I'd say, first thing raised the tariffs.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
And our first step in easing ourselves from the addiction
to China. And one of the best advocates for that
in his book Plan Read China's Project and Destroy America.
It's a bestseller on Amazon. I highly recommend that you
check it out and purchase it online. You can also
follow him on x at Gordon g Chang Gordon always
thankful for your time and insights. We'll see what happens
(12:07):
Tuesday night.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, and thank you so much, Bryan. As I said,
I really appreciate being on your era.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Absolutely, we appreciate him being on your reaction at five
seven seven three nine. You can send your text there
Joining us now. You can follow him on exit Gordon g. Chang.
He is the author of the already best selling number
one on Amazon plan Read China's Project to Destroy America,
and he's a frequent guest on this program. We always
appreciate his time. Gordon Chang joins us. Gordon, thank you
so much.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, thank you, Brian, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Absolutely. Let's start with the book and we'll work from there.
I mentioned last time the timing of this book and
why you wrote it when you wrote it. But as
you're kind of exploring more about what China presents as
a threat and a challenge to the United States, you
take it a step further by saying they have a
project to destroy America. What do you mean with that title.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I mean that China wants to make sure that the
American Republic no longer exists. But Communist Party believes it
is in an existential struggle with the US. And it's
not because of anything that we say or do, Bryan,
but it's because of who we are. You have an
insecure regime in Beijing is worried about the inspiration impact
of our values in form of governance on the Chinese people,
(01:03):
which means that the party believes it will never be
safe as long as there is freedom and democracy in
the US. So the party has made it very clear
is only going to be one survivor. It's either going
to be the People's Republic of China or the United
States of America, not both.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Gordon, as the Chinese no doubt anxiously await the results
of our election, this could go one of two very
different divergent ways as it pertains to China and Ji
Jinping and the leadership there in the Communist Party, can
you articulate in bullet point fashion exactly what those differences
would be. What China might do their actions in the
(01:41):
wake of a Kamala Harris victory as opposed to a
Donald Trump victory.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, any new American president and regardless of party regard,
regardless of ideology, will give China as period, because every
new president thinks that he or in maybe this case,
she can do better than his or her appretis us it.
This is a problem because not so much Kamala Harris,
but because right now China is pressing us and our
(02:08):
friends and allies really hard, and we do not have
time to give China any sort of leeway. The other
thing is we know that Kamala Harris is not that
interested in foreign policy. There's actually Seymour Hirsch reporting that
she actually ordered the director of the Office of National
Intelligence not to send her the President's Daily Brief, which
(02:28):
is the collection of US intelligence in the preceding twenty
four hours, comes in every morning. So this is going
to be learning on the job, and I think China
will try to take advantage of her.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
You know.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
On the other hand, you've got Trump. Trump's already been president,
probably less of a grace period, also because Trump is
probably pretty pissed about what China did in twenty twenty
to help Joe Biden win, And so I suspect that
Trump is going to be sort of roaring out of
the gate, guns blazing.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Gordon Change joining us, And again you can find his
book on Amazon plan read China's Project to Destroy America.
As we count down now four days left until the election, Gordon,
as you analyze it from a foreign policy standpoint, what
differences do you see? And you just kind of touched
on one of those in a second Trump administration versus
(03:18):
a first one. Should the former president win on Tuesday, night.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, my guess is that siegm Ping and Vladimir Putin
will probably be more circumspect. And the reason is it's
not because of Trump's policies. I mean, they don't like
Biden's policies, which means they probably wouldn't like a continuation
of his administration. With Kamala Harris, it's more just the
temperament of the two individuals. They are really scared of
(03:46):
Donald Trump returning to the Oval office because he's unpredictable.
I mean, he can do things which take them by surprise.
Sijmping was taken by surprise in fact, in April twenty
seventeen when he was at Mara Lago and Trump stood
up at dinner and said he had just ordered a
missile strike on a Chinese friend, which was Syria. And
the Chinese were pretty well behaved for their even because
(04:10):
they're pretty bad. They were pretty well behaved during Trump's
four years because they just did not want to take
Trump on. So I think that that's going to be
the defining difference. They look at Kamala Harris. They may
not like what she does, but they probably think they
can control her, or at least predict her. And that
makes them comfortable, and we we certainly don't want the
bad actors in the world feeling comfortable about the United States.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Speaking of those bad actors, Gordon, I follow you on
X and your many interviews on national media because you
tend to be one step ahead of the curve when
it comes to matters abroad, specifically regarding China. But this
one in particular, I've seen you commenting on at length
over these last several hours. Donald Trump just posting the
following on X formerly known as Twitter quote, I strongly
(04:54):
condemned the barbaric violence against Hindus, Christians and other minorities
who are getting attacked and looted by mobs in Bangladesh,
which remains in a total state of chaos. Continuing quote,
it would have never happened on my watch. Kamala and
Joe have ignored Hindus across the world and in America.
They have been a disaster from Israel to Ukraine to
our southern border. But we will make America strong again
(05:16):
and bring back peace through strength. Gordon, can you articulate
to our listeners about the situation in Bangladesh and why
there hasn't been an immediate response to it from the
Biden administration.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I think the Biden administration wants to give the new
government in Bangladesh a grace career for want of a
better term. They according to India, Biden really tipped the
scales against the existing prime minister, who is now out
and who was a friend of India. The new Prime
minister has presided over or has not been able to
(05:51):
control the violence, and that's why there is this continuing
disruption in chaos in Bangladesh right now. And I think
it favors the Chinese, certainly in favor India certainly doesn't
favor us. You know, I don't think that Biden owns
the problem, but Biden contributed a lot to the problem,
so I think he bears a large amount of responsibility
(06:11):
for what's going on there. And none of it is
good for the people of Bangladesh, and it's certainly not
good for the US and for the democracies in the region.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Gordon Chang, author of Plan Red, China's project at Destroy America,
joining us here on this four days before election day
twenty twenty four. Gordon, you and I have spoken at
length as well about the border crisis, and many people
automatically jump to the Mexican drug cartels or the Venezuelan
gangs pouring over. That's been a big topic, an issue
(06:41):
here locally in Aurora. That's become national news. But there's
the Chinese element to this as well, in particular as
it applies to the fentanyl issue. And I saw you
quote this following tweet. In Mexico, Ji Dang Xiang, a
Chinese citizen linked to both the Cartel de Sinaloa and
the Cartel Jalisco Nueva General Action, was arrested in Mexico
(07:02):
City on October thirty. First, can you walk us through
the nexus of the drug trade, the cartels in Mexico,
the producers of the base elements of fentanyl in China,
and how those drugs are getting across the border.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, those two cartels are the ones that primarily control
the fentanyl trades coming into the United States. They buy
precursor chemicals and pill presses from China and then they
employ Chinese technicians in Mexico to mix the precursors into fentanyl,
and then the gangs they sneak it across. They don't
even have to sneak it across, but it comes across
(07:36):
the open southern border, so China's very much involved in this. China,
these fentanyl gangs in China, they're large, they're well organized,
their international scope. They couldn't operate without the knowledge and
approval of the Communist Party. But we also know the
party fully supports the fentanyl gangs. Some of them are
actually state owned companies. But also we know that Chinese
diplomats give covered to the gangs. Chinese officials they inspect
(08:00):
every container that leaves China, and the fentanyl producers they
run their money through the Chinese state banking system in
Chinese own TikTok, which Beijing uses to promote its narratives.
It promotes illegal drug use in the United States. So
backing up the Chinese regime is one hundred percent for
what's going on, and that's seventy to seventy five thousand
(08:20):
Americans each year die from doses of elusive Chinese fentanyl.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Gordon. We've seen the evolution of sympathies for China in
specific form from Governor Tim Walls being very open about
his admiration for China, his many trips to China while
he was a younger man and kind of the nefarious
overlap there may be between the Chinese Communist Party and
Walls and maybe his interests. But this one really jumps
(08:46):
off the page to me as well. About a Chinese
Red Army parade in which two members holding US flags
Representative Grace Meng, Democrat New York and New York City's
own Mayor Eric Adams. What was this event and what's
going on here?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, this is one of a series of events that
take place in New York City where you have the
Chinese consulate in New York participate in these events, as
there was in this one, and this one was particularly
despicable because you had people dress up in People's Liberation
Army uniforms. They were singing Chinese songs, carrying Chinese flags.
(09:24):
This shows that there are some Chinese Americans who are
disloyal to our country and this is a growing problem
we have in New York. The Linda's Son indictment Linda
Son was a senior advisor to to New York governors
Andrew Pomo and the current one, Kathy Hochel. She's being
charged with being an agent for China, and from the
(09:48):
looks of things, she certainly was deeply involved in helping
the Communist Party promote its policies in New York State.
The reason is that the New York Democratic Party looks
to Chinese Americans for quotes, and Chinese Americans throughout New
York State, but especially in New York City, have these
very disturbing connections to the Communist Party.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Gordon a couple of final questions here. First one is
a quick hitter, and that is if Donald Trump is
victorious on Tuesdays, I hope and I believe that he
will be. Have there been any talks about you joining
a Trump administration and would you?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah? No, No, no talks about that at all. I'm
not really an official. If you want to be an
official in any administration, you've got to fight for it,
and I'm certainly not going to do that.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Following up on that, then this is a post from
you that I could not agree with more. We must
rely on China for nothing. You and I have spoken
many times in the past. I agree with Governor Ron
DeSantis his strong stance on China that we need to decouple.
We are too reliant. We are basically slaves to their
slave labor for so many of our products and services
and drugs, et cetera. If you were to profer advice
(10:57):
then to a Trump administration about the first step and
taking a step back from China from being less reliant
on China, what was he The first thing you would
advise on day one, January twenty twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Raised the tariffs. Trump in his talk with Maria Bartiromo
in February said he imposed at least sixty percent across
the board tariffs. And the other thing is just enforce
the Teriff Act of nineteen thirty which prohibits the importation
into the United States of goods made with forced labor.
Almost all of China's green products are made with slightly
(11:30):
weaker labor. Can't come into the US if we enforce
our laws, and many other Chinese products are also made
with prohibited labor. Enforce the law with the second thing,
I'd say, first thing raised the tariffs.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
And our first step in easing ourselves from the addiction
to China. And one of the best advocates for that
in his book Plan Read China's Project and Destroy America.
It's a bestseller on Amazon. I highly recommend that you
check it out and purchase it online. You can also
follow him on x at Gordon g Chang Gordon always
thankful for your time and insights. We'll see what happens
(12:07):
Tuesday night.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, and thank you so much, Bryan. As I said,
I really appreciate being on your era.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Absolutely, we appreciate him being on your reaction at five
seven seven three nine. You can send your text there
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