November 13, 2025 • 34 mins
Susan Crabtree, national political correspondent for RealClearPolitics, joins Ryan to sort through reports - and online accusations - regarding the identity of the January 6th pipe bombing suspect. The Blaze alleges former Capitol Police officer Shauni Rae Kerkhoff matched a profile of video depicting the perpetrator using 'forensic gait analysis.' How reliable is this science?
https://x.com/susancrabtree/status/1988325795690148208?s=20
John U. Bacon, celebrated author from Ryan's home state of Michigan, joins the program to discuss his epic account of the tragic sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald as we mark 50 years - nearly to the day - since all 29 lives aboard were lost on November 10, 1975.
The gales of November came early that year and would go on to be documented and immortalized in the Gordon Lightfoot classic song 'The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald' one year later.
The Gales of November | John U. Bacon
The Gales of November: The Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald: Bacon, John U.: 9781324094647: Amazon.com: Books
https://x.com/susancrabtree/status/1988325795690148208?s=20
John U. Bacon, celebrated author from Ryan's home state of Michigan, joins the program to discuss his epic account of the tragic sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald as we mark 50 years - nearly to the day - since all 29 lives aboard were lost on November 10, 1975.
The gales of November came early that year and would go on to be documented and immortalized in the Gordon Lightfoot classic song 'The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald' one year later.
The Gales of November | John U. Bacon
The Gales of November: The Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald: Bacon, John U.: 9781324094647: Amazon.com: Books
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
President Trump appeared to be in something of a full
court press to try and stop the discharge petition from working.
Sources are telling CNN the top Trump administration officials held
a meeting on this issue, not just at the White House,
but in the Situation Room. According to multiple sources, the
meeting was said to have included the Attorney General Pam Bondi,
(00:22):
the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, FBI Director Cash Battel,
and Republican Congresswoman Lauren Bobert of Colorado. Bobert is one
of the four Republican members of the House who has
signed the petition.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, the mainstream media having a field day over this one.
That's Jake Tapper CNN talking about our local Congresswoman Lauren
Bobert from the fourth Congressional District, who has been on
this very program discussing this very issue, the release of
the Epstein file, something I am in lockstep with her on.
(01:00):
Sunlight is the best disinfectant. We've talked about this at length,
even emails texts that have come in. Ryan, are you
going to talk about the Epstein files. There's nothing to
hide in my view from what I know, what I've
discussed with Lauren about Trump's involvement or lack thereof, More importantly,
(01:21):
with Jeffrey Epstein and his nefarious pursuits with underage girls
who he would poach in large part Jeffrey Epstein from
Trump's club in mar A Lago. When President Trump found
out about it, he was highly agitated and he told
Jeffrey Epstein to knock it off. Looking to recruit girls
(01:44):
higher girls in quotes is like massaging quotes therapists. Julaine
Maxwell and on this whole racket, this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
We know.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
They are prominent names mentioned, like Prince Andrew has been
stripped of his royal titles by his brother King Charles,
like Bill Clinton, a painting of whom in a blue
dress adorned the residents of one Jeffrey Epstein. This is
the part I can't figure out the calculus on Democrats
who are really pushing hard for the release of whatever's
(02:16):
left of the Epstein files. At this point, folks, there
is far more that would lend itself to incriminating the
former president of the United States, and that would be
the forty second president, Bill Clinton, rather than forty five
slash forty seven Donald Trump, who upon hearing about any
of this, banned Jeffrey Epstein after a stern warning entirely
(02:40):
from mar A Lago cut off all contact with Epstein.
So these emails that have surfaced, if you read them thoroughly,
they don't implicate Donald Trump in any wrongdoing. They can
cast dispersions, they can allege certain things, there's no proof there.
(03:00):
As Ben Shapiro has said on his show over these
last couple of days, there's no there there. This is
what Alan Dershowitz, who once represented Jeffrey Epstein in a
court of law as his attorney, had to say. And
this is very important information here on the whole topic.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
That's more than ten documents that haven't been released during
control of the White House and the DJ They could
end this at any time.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yes, there are some things that are undersealed, but no, they.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Can't because they can't get the judges.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
It'll never end as long as judges are certain documents.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
That's correct, but it is the other Let's get them
out there.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
I know what's in those documents. I know something you
don't know. I know what's in those documents.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That's why it's so important to get.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
These judicial documents out there. I want them out there
if the judge will give me permission. I have them
in my possession, my lawyers have them. Judge, let me
give them to Pierce Morgan. I want to give them
to Piers Morgan.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Why, Judge, you prevent me from disclosing material that would
be very, very important in putting a whole picture on
this thing.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I've reached out to Professor Dershowitz directly and am attempting
to get him on with Dan Kaplis on the Dan
Caplis Show, which of course follows this one here on
six point thirty k how I will update as those
details become available more hopeful that he is able to
appear with Dan. This from January of twenty twenty four,
(04:29):
not quite two years ago. CNN new details this morning.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
Hundreds of new pages have been unsealed in a lawsuit
connected to convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. The victim alleges that
that former President Clinton pressured Vanity Fair not to run
a story on Epstein. The pages also shed new light
on how Epstein's victims were recruited and what happened to them.
CNNs Gen Zarus joins us now and Gene we're talking
(04:55):
about nine hundred pages here, so there's a lot to
go through.
Speaker 7 (04:58):
What new details have come out.
Speaker 8 (05:00):
They came out last night combing through them. And you
know this all stems from twenty fifteen civil suit brought
by Virginia Giuffrey against Gleen Maxwell. And Virginia Dufray had
wanted her story to come out. She wanted a book,
and so she became very close with a reporter out
of Britain, and this reporter was encouraging her to go
(05:22):
to the Vanity Fair magazine to have them do an
article on it. And here is what in a newly
undisclosed email from twenty eleven, here's what Virginia Giuffray says.
Speaker 7 (05:33):
She says, considering that b.
Speaker 9 (05:36):
Clinton walked at a VF Vanity Fair and threatened them
not to write sex trafficking articles about his good friend
Jaye Jeffrey Epstein, so she didn't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Virginia Giuffrey has since committed suicide and is deceased, she
wrote a book. In that book and in testimony, she
is vehement that Donald Trump himself never engaged in any
inappropriate conduct, not even flirting with her. She made allegations
(06:09):
about others, and there was nothing stopping her from mentioning
or implicating Donald Trump. And yet she did not Representative
Jasmine Crockett not the brightest light in the chandelier on CNN,
and she gets little sideways. Here.
Speaker 10 (06:26):
This is an email from April second, twenty eleven. Republicans
were saying that that victim is Virginia Giffrey. As you know,
she died by suicide. She grew very outspoken, very outspoken
victim of Jeffrey Epstein. Here's the email right here on
your screen. She wrote a book, as you know, and
she did not accuse him of any wrongdoing.
Speaker 11 (06:44):
No, what do you make of it?
Speaker 10 (06:45):
And can you confirm that?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 12 (06:47):
Obviously it's redacted who the victim is, so I won't
necessarily take the Republican's word on who it is that's redacted.
And I don't know why they would necessarily redact someone's
name who is deceased. At this point, the Democrats did that.
Speaker 10 (07:03):
The Democrats were.
Speaker 12 (07:04):
Dinah, I understand what I'm just saying, like, oh, our
biggest concern is to actually make sure that we are
protecting victims.
Speaker 7 (07:12):
And obviously she wrote a book.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
She told her truth. I hate that right, it's told
her truth. There's the truth. Nobody's version of the truth
is the truth. Oh I told my truth? Well, I
think I'm a dinosaur. I'm not a dinosaur.
Speaker 8 (07:27):
That's my truth.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
You either tell the truth or it's something else. Further
to that point, the Democrats adapted the name the Republicans.
The House Oversight Committee Representative James Comer, who's running this
Republican Kentucky saying the redacted name is Virginia Douphray, who
exonerated Trump from any wrongdoing and every bit of testimony
she ever gave, and every bit that she's ever written
(07:49):
in every interview that she ever conducted on the matter. Now,
as far as protecting the names of the victims, I
have some experiences in this realm, and it doesn't ring
true to me. You could protect the names of the
victims without protecting the names of the perpetrators. But every
(08:10):
bit of that what I just said, is happening right now,
and that's what I don't understand. For instance, the reason
I know a lot about this type of court documentation
is because I covered at length from the beginning the
Larry Nasser scandal and trial and you can go through
and redact names of the victims, the innocent, those who
(08:30):
were preyed upon unless or until, and many of them did.
In that case, Jamie Dansher and many others chose to
come forward and reveal the fact that they were one
of those who were victimized by Larry Nasser. The same
could hold true here when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein.
But this blanket kind of statement and cover, well, we
(08:53):
got to protect the victims. There's a way to do this.
And this is where Representative Lauren Bolbert and I are simpatico.
This is what she had to say late last night
after meeting with the Trump administration. Some are reporting in
the situation room Manu Raju CNN really interested in getting
her take on this.
Speaker 13 (09:13):
This is an administration who's going to continue to be
transparent and honest and we'll see what comes of it.
But there was no pressure, and I mean everybody who
is great and worked atess well with the degrees that
would have been lost under Joe Biden's leadership if he
ever led it all.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
But she don't feel like you have.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Been lays lives in back a world when you're writing
by we.
Speaker 7 (09:36):
Are a position here.
Speaker 13 (09:37):
No, I don't feel market marginalize at all. President Trump
is an amazing man. I stand by him. I stand
by his administration and everything that he is doing to
fix the mess of the Biden administration.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
That's exactly right. I don't think it's mutual exclusive for
Representative Bolbert to be in favor of releasing these Epstein files,
whatever it might be left of them, and yet resolutely
standing by President Trump and supporting him. And she will
join us coming up at three point thirty three here
in the Mountain time zone for an exclusive one on
one conversation on the matter here on Ryan Schuling Live.
(10:08):
Switching gears now to one of our favorite reporters on
the national front. She is the national political correspondent for
Real Clear Politics, and she has been covering very closely
this story you may have seen breaking over the last
several days regarding the identity of the January sixth pipe
bombing suspect. The Blaze has reported, into my knowledge, they
(10:30):
are the only outlet that has done so that Capitol
Police Officer SHAWNI. Ray Kirkhoff matched a profile of a
video depicting the perpetrator the alleged pipe bomber, and this
was outside of both the DNC and the RNC. They're
in DC on January sixth, and that this profile was
using forensic gait analysis gait so the way a person walks.
(10:55):
How reliable is this science? How reliable is any of
this information? There's a lot of smoke out there. But
we cut to the chase and the fire and Susan
Crabtree joins us now in Ryan Schuling Lives. Susan, thanks
as always for your time.
Speaker 14 (11:07):
Oh it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So I turned to you for knowledge on the subject.
What do we know, what do we not know? And
what's out there right now that you view is either
ahead of the story or completely incorrect. Well, my part
of the story.
Speaker 11 (11:25):
As you know, I cover this Secret Service very closely
and have for years, but especially in the aftermath of
the Butler assassination attempt.
Speaker 14 (11:34):
And when that after that occurred, I started hearing from
There was more.
Speaker 11 (11:41):
Scrutiny of this pipeline incident on j six as well,
and I started hearing from Secret Service agents that they
were asked under the Biden era leadership to submit their phones,
their cell phones, and those cell phones and it was
all of the agents that worked on J six and
(12:03):
those cell phones were wiped and they were told that
it was a software migration that's happening, and no one,
absolutely no one believed them on that.
Speaker 14 (12:14):
So that's sort of where I'm looking at this.
Speaker 11 (12:16):
I was commenting about it on X from the perspective
that the Congressional investigators are now wanting the Secret Service
to basically cough up more information about why they did
not find that pipe bomb.
Speaker 14 (12:33):
At the DNC early that morning.
Speaker 11 (12:37):
Had they swept it for Kamala Harris to come in,
but they somehow missed a pipe bomb, even though they
have bomb sniffing dogs that are usually very reliable doing
some of these sweeps.
Speaker 7 (12:51):
So it's all very curious.
Speaker 11 (12:54):
When you talk about the date analysis. So I don't
know that much about data analysis, but I know that
at least if if we have narrow the field of people,
it could possibly be in maybe just maybe some law
enforcement authorities that aren't so tarnished like during the last
(13:18):
administration in the FBI could speak to these individuals.
Speaker 7 (13:22):
That might.
Speaker 11 (13:25):
Have this blaze said have gata analysis that fits the
gata analysis in the video of the person who left
the pipe that the FBI.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Released Susan Crabtree, national political correspondent for Real Clear Politics.
As you mentioned, Susan, you're as well sourced within the
Secret Service as anybody I know or follow or have
seen report on the matter. Short version. Is there any
sourcing that you have done through your reporting that corroborates
the Blaze report or is this kind of they're on
(13:59):
an island with what where they're doing on that reporting?
Speaker 14 (14:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 11 (14:03):
I have not been focused on J six, the pipe bomb.
I have been focused on the assassination attempt. But there
is obviously agents are very angry that they had their
phones wiped. It's part of the corruption that was taking
place under the Biden agent Biden era for a lot
(14:23):
of agencies. I mean Kimberly Cheetle, who ran the Secret Service,
was absolutely covered up the cocaine incident at the White House,
and I've done a lot of good reporting on that,
and the Secret Service agents were so mad about that
particular cover up of the cocaine that they issued what
is called the challenge coins with the monkeys on it
(14:44):
the SEO see nothing, nothing, Speak nothing monkeys, And they
gave me a picture of that challenge coin. The agent
who made it made two hundred of them because they
were looked like they were incompetent. And I think the
same thing is going here on here with the FCI.
Speaker 7 (15:03):
People are angry that.
Speaker 11 (15:04):
We don't have answers too many things that happen.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, Era and Susan. One of the mean characters in
this entire story that you and I have followed and
that you know personally is now the Deputy director of
the FBI, and that's Dan Bongino, And he was asking
these questions and I was following along on two fronts
here when it comes to the January sixth pipe find
both the suspect who had planted them in the first place,
(15:29):
the blaze alleges it's a Capitol police officer, former Capitol
police officer, and video that captures and I believe it
was represented Thomas Massey that has been pointing this out
on the video. Somebody discovered the pipe bombs and alerted
local police officers, DC police officers on site, and we
don't know who that person is. And the question that
(15:50):
Dan was always asking is why don't we know the
identity of the suspect, the person that planted the bombs?
Why not and then why wouldn't we know about this
hero who saved the day and found the bombs and
reported in the police. I mean, there's just so much
about this that doesn't add up.
Speaker 7 (16:05):
Absolutely.
Speaker 11 (16:07):
And then the woman Capitol police officer who the Blaze identified,
I understand she's now at a three letter agency and
that is raising I rouse, at least according to the Blaze,
that really to me if that is true, and we
need to get to the bottom of it. Of course,
we want the FBI to be digging into this, and
(16:29):
we likely they don't.
Speaker 7 (16:30):
You know, they don't usually disclose.
Speaker 11 (16:31):
That they're doing, but all of a sudden you'll have
one day where they just announce their findings and hopefully
that's what's going to happen.
Speaker 7 (16:39):
But the fact if she was you know, basically taken.
Speaker 11 (16:44):
And given a better job at the CIA or other
agencies in their national security apparatus. If that's the case,
then it just stinks to high heaven and we need answers.
This is as to be sort of like an insurance policy,
right it was another insurance policy.
Speaker 7 (17:05):
That we heard you know, the page instruct.
Speaker 11 (17:08):
Who are having an affair of the FBI employees agents
who launched the whole or behind the whole coakes of
the Russia hoax. This is another insurance policy. That's at
least that could be the explanation that.
Speaker 14 (17:26):
Has been circulating that if they went to certify, if
Vice President.
Speaker 11 (17:30):
Pence went to certify that election, uh, that these bombs
could go off creating a big distraction, or they were
could be found. I guess they were inoperatable. But we
still don't have all these answers.
Speaker 7 (17:42):
And I'm, you know, a national political.
Speaker 11 (17:44):
Reporter, and I've looked into this, and I don't have
all these answers, and that to me speaks to the
trust in our government that has been eroded. Was that
voted in many instances during the.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Biden the ministry in the final minute that we have Susan,
what is the next part of this story that you're
following up on that you're covering?
Speaker 11 (18:07):
Well, I am, I would like to know if she
did indeed get ferried away, if it's in particular Capitol
Police prison.
Speaker 7 (18:17):
Can we just confirm that.
Speaker 14 (18:18):
Part of it into if she did was employed by
a CIA. That's an very unusual track to go.
Speaker 11 (18:28):
From a Capitol police officer to an intelligence agency.
Speaker 14 (18:33):
That's not normal. Let's find out about that.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Follow her on exit. Susan Crabtree. She is the national
political correspondent for real clear politics, and as you can hear,
she is right there at the center of these stories.
With tremendous sourcing within the Secret Service. There is a
lot of anks within that organization that continues as we
have more questions than answers still on January sixth, and
(18:56):
on so many other things that happened in the aftermath
of that, Susan, the great stuff is always thank you
so much for your time. We'll talk again soon.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
I appreciate you, all right, Bank Susan.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Crabtree joining us here on Ryan Schuling Live. So just
another day in Paradise. Lots to react to five seven, seven,
three nine, Stay tuned. The Gales of November came early
fifty years ago.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
John H.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Bacon wrote a book about the sinking of the Edmonfist.
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Client paid advertisement. Additional disclosures at Trajanwealth dot Com and Lightfoot.
The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald and the Gales of
November did come early. It is the title of the
book by our next guest author, John U. Bacon, a
guy I go way back with during my days at
(21:30):
Michigan and covering the Wolverines and Spartans in the great
state of Michigan. He has written a lot about the
history of University of Michigan football. He's one of the
best writers that you'll find, and he's certainly the best
writer that I know and the perfect man for this task.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Again.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
It is a best seller on Amazon and on the
New York Times List. The Gales of November. The Untold
Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
John U.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Bacon joins us on Ryan Schuling Live. John, You thank
you so much for taking the time. R Well, it's
great to have you on and people can find that book.
It was released in October, and of course the tenth
of November marked the fiftieth anniversary of the sinking of
the Edmund Fitzgerald. Twenty nine men perished this in Lake
(22:15):
Superior above the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, my home state. John,
you what really motivated you to write this book and
where did that process all begin.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
We'll tell you what we are. I mean, everyone's fascinated
by the mystery of it, which is still not entirely solved,
although we get closer to it, I think in this book.
But what really drove me, Ryan was not that was
the twenty nine men. I didn't know who they were,
to know their names, didn't know what their lives are like,
on board, with their jobs are like with their lives
are like on shore, and their families. So it's the
people that really drove me the most to tell the story, and.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
It's such an important story to tell, John, I think
for the family members of the men who were lost,
and how personal that experience must have been in your
research doing this book. And I noticed that when you
did an appearance at the sight of the sinking of
the Edmund Fitzgerald exactly on the fiftieth anniversary on the
tenth of November, you didn't want to sign the book
(23:11):
there because you felt that would be inappropriate. Can you
take us through what those conversations have been like that
you've had with the family members of the men who
were lost?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Well, great question, Ryan, Well, I got to fourteen of
the twenty nine families in some form or other, and
they're all willing to talk eventually about the experience, being
the wives and the sons, and the daughters, and the
cousins and the nephews, nieces and even a few of
the girls who are the girlfriends of these guys. And
at first they are naturally cautious that you might imagine,
(23:41):
but over time we warm th things up and they
trust me with their stories, and I feel very good
about the final products. I feel good about that. But
as one of them told me, when you lose your
father when you're twelve years old, you don't get over that.
You get used to it and they're not the same.
And that has stayed with me.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
John you Bakon, author of The Gails of Nova, remember
the untold story of the m and Fitzgerald. It sank
almost exactly fifty years ago to the day, back in
nineteen seventy five. So John, you the challenge of this book.
There are multiple fronts for that. The emotional aspect that
you just described, the family members recounting their version of events.
That was such a painful day for them in the
aftermath of it. But then also it has been fifty
(24:21):
years since it happened. There was little known about what
actually happened on the ship because there were no survivors.
But as best as you can tell it for our listeners,
especially younger ones that do not remember it happening, what
went wrong that day, whatever.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Could have gone wrong, Ryan pretty much did go wrong.
And it's one of my exits, said John Tanner, who
was the superintendent of the Great Lakes Maritime Academy in
Traverse City, not too far from your old haunts of course,
at Central and whatnot. He said, when a big ship
goes down, it's rarely one thing. It's a series of
factors that start building up over time, the weather, the
design of the ship, mechanical malfunctions. That night, it's some
(25:01):
decisions made by the obviously the human element, and I
think he's right in this case. And as they also said,
the domino started falling. Watch out. So that night you
had the storm of the century, which ultimately delivered one
hundred mile per hour winds, that's hurricane force, sixty foot
waves where the mit Fhitzscherald was. And as one of
my experts said, this ship found itself in the exact
(25:22):
wrong place at the exact wrong time. No one else
was even within fifteen miles of this one spot.
Speaker 7 (25:28):
That.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Of course, the ship was designed to be very flexible,
maybe too flexible. It was probably overloaded. On top of that,
the long radar went out, the short radar went out.
The lighthouse at Whitefish Point that went out, so you're
basically flying sailing blind, and then they might have gone
over white A player called six fathom shoal and fathom
(25:49):
is six feet, so that's thirty six feet, but actually
ryan in some places it's only ten feet deep, so
you should be nowhere near this. But if you're a
sailing blind you can do it. And he might have.
I believe probably did.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
John you Bakon, author of The Gales in November, The
Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald joining us now all
these fifty years later with your exhaustive research, John you,
what can you tell us? And I'm sure it's highlighted
in the book. But what did you find out that
we did not know before? What were those highlights?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
I'll say a few things. One, he took the captain
took the northern route, whichever knows he did, and that
means you said, of going straight across the bottom of
this rectangle that is the lake, basically he took the
top three sides of the square. It's a safe way
to go. It's a very cautious decision. But it means
that it takes forty more hours to get to Whitefish Bay,
as the storm beat him to home plate basically and
(26:43):
was guarded it like a catcher. Essentially. That's one problem.
He does not know it as well. That's why it
might have gone over six fathom shoal. He takes the
other route fifty times a year, and this route wants
every two or three years, so he does not know
it nearly as well. And that's a factor. And then
of course it is pay me now, pay me later.
The winds going across you avoid them the first two
legs of this trip. By sticking near the shore. With
(27:04):
the last leg, you're going to get hammered, and they did.
I think also the question of going over right over
sorry six fathom shoal has been evated. I found four
guys that the investigator, Dick Race, the best diver on
the Great Legs. He dived the area six months after
the accident in spring of nineteen seventy six. His report
(27:27):
is buried somewhere, and his report is buried somewhere in
a box that can't be found. But I found four
witnesses to his conversations, and all fours are the same thing.
That he found the paint of the Emphis gerialds on
six fathom shoal. And that is not conclusive proof, but Ryan,
that gets a lot closer to it, because that guy
was the best in the business. So those two things
(27:48):
I think probably stand out.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
John you Bacon, our guests, the author of this tremendous book,
and you can find it on Amazon or your favorite bookstore.
It's a best seller there. And also the new York
Times rise here, the gales of November, the untold story
of the Edmund Fitzgerald. So as we account for what
happened on that day and all of these this perfect storm,
I mean quite literally, they're what happened, these factors coming together.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
John.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
So in the aftermath of that, were there maritime changes
in terms of safety protocols, how ships operated either in
that area or anywhere else, or largely was the response, Hey,
this was a once in a generation, a once in
a lifetime, one hundred years event, and it's just something
bad that.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Happens, the former, not the latter. And please report now
the stunny sat Ryan is from eighteen seventy five to
nineteen seventy five there were six thousand commercial shipwrecks on
the Great Lakes. Not rowboats, but big old freighters, cargo
ships and so on. That's a crazy number. That's one
a week every week for a century. Thirty thousand men
lost during that stretch, one a day every day for
(28:54):
a century. So this is this is the ship. There
was the Golden Boy the Great Lakes, the best ship
of the great life, the best captain. When this ship
went down, it was like Titanic. It finally woke up
a complace industry like nine to eleven in our day.
Basically a lot of things changed after that, so the
reforms after that finally were instilled. As one of my
experts said, when do you fix anything when it's broken?
(29:16):
So since then we have much better forecasting. They could
have done it that day. Of course, technology has also improved. Two,
much better communication of the forecast to those captains. They
were barely aware of the second storm coming up, so
that was a huge problem. And three, honestly, Ryan, just
good old plane common sense. I was up there last
year for the forty ninth anniversary. Sorry, and the next
(29:39):
day on Whitefish Point, remember eleventh, twenty twenty four, thirty
forty miles per hour winds, ten foot waves. Not nearly
as bad as they saw that night, of course, but
still pretty bad. Ryan. Every single ship was anchored in
Whitefish Bay that day, and I guarantee you that fifty
years earlier, not one of them would be so common
sense wait a day, sa cruse saviorship that is finally kicked.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
In final question, John you Bacon, our guest author of
The Gails of November, about the sinking of the Memphis
Jerald fifty years ago. So, John, you you've been on
tour now meeting people signing the book, You've had interactions
with the family, and we know the commercial success, it's
the best seller. But what has the reception been like
from those in the know, the family members of the
(30:23):
men who perished, and just fans coming to these events
and talking to you about the book?
Speaker 3 (30:28):
A great question. I now know a lot more than
I know a month ago about that.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
I saw the families just three days ago at Whitefish
Point and they are thrilled with the book, and they're
relief about the book that finally their father's stories are
getting out the way they wanted them to get out.
That feels good. What I'm hearing from readers is that
they are grateful to learn about the people, and to
that end, I think it might explain why this book
happens to be selling more with women than with men.
(30:54):
We did not expect that at all. We're top five
in the Pacific Northwest, top five in the Rockies where
you are, of course New England, and on Rolling Stone
magazine when we accepted the stories about the song, with
a number one story on Rolling Stone for two days,
we did not expect that, Ryan, because of course the
day three is when Taylor Swift sneezes or something, so
(31:17):
that whenever we're lost. We didn't hold it that long.
I can't lie to you.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Well you had it.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
We did held it. Yeah, we even had it. So
the response has been broader and deeper than we ever expected.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
The Gales of November, the untold story of the ed
Memphis Jerald. He's simply one of the best in the
business and the perfect man, as I stated, to write
this very book and tell this story, and like you said,
what are relief This must be for the family members
of the twenty nine men who perished on that day
almost exactly fifty years ago, John You Bacon. Great catching
up with you, my man. Thank you so much for
your time and great job with the book.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Ryan, Thank you. Anytime. You can find out more on
John Youbacon dot com, including how to order.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
It, John Youbacon dot com. Find out more there, and
of course you can order it on Amazon and your
favorite bookstore. You can go there and find it. Interesting
to hear him describe that it's the top five best
seller in all these different regions of the country, the
Pacific Northwest New England and right here in the Rocky Mountains,
So get your addition today. The Gales of November, The
Untold Story of the Edmun Fitzgerald, a time out wrapping
(32:19):
up hour number one of Ryan Schuling Live after this
and your Tax to five, seven to seven, three nine
to a round out as well. Just fascinating conversation in
my view with John you Bacon in the previous segment.
If you missed it you can catch on the podcast.
Zack will be posting those later this afternoon and evening.
(32:40):
The Gales of November. The Untold Story of the Edmun Fitzgerald.
It sank on November tenth, just three days ago, marking
fifty years since the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald in
Lake Superior, and twenty nine men perished that day. Gordon
Lightfoot of Chorus wrote an iconic song about it and
very important and keeping the memory of that tragic event
(33:01):
alive over the years, and then John Yu revisiting it
fifty years later and writing a prolific book on the matter.
I cannot stress enough what a talented cerebral writer John U.
Bacon is. He's just one of the best.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Ryan.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
So the deep State used FBI informants to incite violence
at the Capitol while the Capitol Police officers were inviting
protesters into the building and a Capitol Police officer was
setting pipe bombs around the city. I guess we're starting
to understand why so many Capitol police officers committed suicide
after being forced to take part in this deep state
false flag operation. Well, that is tragic, to be sure.
(33:40):
Ryan Sicknick died of a stroke, not from a fire
extinguisher to the head. That was fake news. Ashley Babbitt
was the only person murdered that day, shot by you guessed,
a Capitol Police officer. The informants Christopher Ray either lied
about through lies of comission or lies of omission during
his testimony. There's a lot about that entire day that
(34:02):
still doesn't add up. So glad that Susan Crabtree Real
Clear Politics joined us to open the show talking about
these matters we've been talking about the Epstein files. Stay tuned.
Coming up in our next hour, Representative Lauren Boebert an
exclusive conversation with her as she prestance for the release
of those files. We'll talk about Victor Marx, his interview
(34:23):
with Dan Kaplis from yesterday. Stick and stay
President Trump appeared to be in something of a full
court press to try and stop the discharge petition from working.
Sources are telling CNN the top Trump administration officials held
a meeting on this issue, not just at the White House,
but in the Situation Room. According to multiple sources, the
meeting was said to have included the Attorney General Pam Bondi,
(00:22):
the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, FBI Director Cash Battel,
and Republican Congresswoman Lauren Bobert of Colorado. Bobert is one
of the four Republican members of the House who has
signed the petition.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, the mainstream media having a field day over this one.
That's Jake Tapper CNN talking about our local Congresswoman Lauren
Bobert from the fourth Congressional District, who has been on
this very program discussing this very issue, the release of
the Epstein file, something I am in lockstep with her on.
(01:00):
Sunlight is the best disinfectant. We've talked about this at length,
even emails texts that have come in. Ryan, are you
going to talk about the Epstein files. There's nothing to
hide in my view from what I know, what I've
discussed with Lauren about Trump's involvement or lack thereof, More importantly,
(01:21):
with Jeffrey Epstein and his nefarious pursuits with underage girls
who he would poach in large part Jeffrey Epstein from
Trump's club in mar A Lago. When President Trump found
out about it, he was highly agitated and he told
Jeffrey Epstein to knock it off. Looking to recruit girls
(01:44):
higher girls in quotes is like massaging quotes therapists. Julaine
Maxwell and on this whole racket, this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
We know.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
They are prominent names mentioned, like Prince Andrew has been
stripped of his royal titles by his brother King Charles,
like Bill Clinton, a painting of whom in a blue
dress adorned the residents of one Jeffrey Epstein. This is
the part I can't figure out the calculus on Democrats
who are really pushing hard for the release of whatever's
(02:16):
left of the Epstein files. At this point, folks, there
is far more that would lend itself to incriminating the
former president of the United States, and that would be
the forty second president, Bill Clinton, rather than forty five
slash forty seven Donald Trump, who upon hearing about any
of this, banned Jeffrey Epstein after a stern warning entirely
(02:40):
from mar A Lago cut off all contact with Epstein.
So these emails that have surfaced, if you read them thoroughly,
they don't implicate Donald Trump in any wrongdoing. They can
cast dispersions, they can allege certain things, there's no proof there.
(03:00):
As Ben Shapiro has said on his show over these
last couple of days, there's no there there. This is
what Alan Dershowitz, who once represented Jeffrey Epstein in a
court of law as his attorney, had to say. And
this is very important information here on the whole topic.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
That's more than ten documents that haven't been released during
control of the White House and the DJ They could
end this at any time.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yes, there are some things that are undersealed, but no, they.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Can't because they can't get the judges.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
It'll never end as long as judges are certain documents.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
That's correct, but it is the other Let's get them
out there.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
I know what's in those documents. I know something you
don't know. I know what's in those documents.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That's why it's so important to get.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
These judicial documents out there. I want them out there
if the judge will give me permission. I have them
in my possession, my lawyers have them. Judge, let me
give them to Pierce Morgan. I want to give them
to Piers Morgan.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Why, Judge, you prevent me from disclosing material that would
be very, very important in putting a whole picture on
this thing.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I've reached out to Professor Dershowitz directly and am attempting
to get him on with Dan Kaplis on the Dan
Caplis Show, which of course follows this one here on
six point thirty k how I will update as those
details become available more hopeful that he is able to
appear with Dan. This from January of twenty twenty four,
(04:29):
not quite two years ago. CNN new details this morning.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
Hundreds of new pages have been unsealed in a lawsuit
connected to convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. The victim alleges that
that former President Clinton pressured Vanity Fair not to run
a story on Epstein. The pages also shed new light
on how Epstein's victims were recruited and what happened to them.
CNNs Gen Zarus joins us now and Gene we're talking
(04:55):
about nine hundred pages here, so there's a lot to
go through.
Speaker 7 (04:58):
What new details have come out.
Speaker 8 (05:00):
They came out last night combing through them. And you
know this all stems from twenty fifteen civil suit brought
by Virginia Giuffrey against Gleen Maxwell. And Virginia Dufray had
wanted her story to come out. She wanted a book,
and so she became very close with a reporter out
of Britain, and this reporter was encouraging her to go
(05:22):
to the Vanity Fair magazine to have them do an
article on it. And here is what in a newly
undisclosed email from twenty eleven, here's what Virginia Giuffray says.
Speaker 7 (05:33):
She says, considering that b.
Speaker 9 (05:36):
Clinton walked at a VF Vanity Fair and threatened them
not to write sex trafficking articles about his good friend
Jaye Jeffrey Epstein, so she didn't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Virginia Giuffrey has since committed suicide and is deceased, she
wrote a book. In that book and in testimony, she
is vehement that Donald Trump himself never engaged in any
inappropriate conduct, not even flirting with her. She made allegations
(06:09):
about others, and there was nothing stopping her from mentioning
or implicating Donald Trump. And yet she did not Representative
Jasmine Crockett not the brightest light in the chandelier on CNN,
and she gets little sideways. Here.
Speaker 10 (06:26):
This is an email from April second, twenty eleven. Republicans
were saying that that victim is Virginia Giffrey. As you know,
she died by suicide. She grew very outspoken, very outspoken
victim of Jeffrey Epstein. Here's the email right here on
your screen. She wrote a book, as you know, and
she did not accuse him of any wrongdoing.
Speaker 11 (06:44):
No, what do you make of it?
Speaker 10 (06:45):
And can you confirm that?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 12 (06:47):
Obviously it's redacted who the victim is, so I won't
necessarily take the Republican's word on who it is that's redacted.
And I don't know why they would necessarily redact someone's
name who is deceased. At this point, the Democrats did that.
Speaker 10 (07:03):
The Democrats were.
Speaker 12 (07:04):
Dinah, I understand what I'm just saying, like, oh, our
biggest concern is to actually make sure that we are
protecting victims.
Speaker 7 (07:12):
And obviously she wrote a book.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
She told her truth. I hate that right, it's told
her truth. There's the truth. Nobody's version of the truth
is the truth. Oh I told my truth? Well, I
think I'm a dinosaur. I'm not a dinosaur.
Speaker 8 (07:27):
That's my truth.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
You either tell the truth or it's something else. Further
to that point, the Democrats adapted the name the Republicans.
The House Oversight Committee Representative James Comer, who's running this
Republican Kentucky saying the redacted name is Virginia Douphray, who
exonerated Trump from any wrongdoing and every bit of testimony
she ever gave, and every bit that she's ever written
(07:49):
in every interview that she ever conducted on the matter. Now,
as far as protecting the names of the victims, I
have some experiences in this realm, and it doesn't ring
true to me. You could protect the names of the
victims without protecting the names of the perpetrators. But every
(08:10):
bit of that what I just said, is happening right now,
and that's what I don't understand. For instance, the reason
I know a lot about this type of court documentation
is because I covered at length from the beginning the
Larry Nasser scandal and trial and you can go through
and redact names of the victims, the innocent, those who
(08:30):
were preyed upon unless or until, and many of them did.
In that case, Jamie Dansher and many others chose to
come forward and reveal the fact that they were one
of those who were victimized by Larry Nasser. The same
could hold true here when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein.
But this blanket kind of statement and cover, well, we
(08:53):
got to protect the victims. There's a way to do this.
And this is where Representative Lauren Bolbert and I are simpatico.
This is what she had to say late last night
after meeting with the Trump administration. Some are reporting in
the situation room Manu Raju CNN really interested in getting
her take on this.
Speaker 13 (09:13):
This is an administration who's going to continue to be
transparent and honest and we'll see what comes of it.
But there was no pressure, and I mean everybody who
is great and worked atess well with the degrees that
would have been lost under Joe Biden's leadership if he
ever led it all.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
But she don't feel like you have.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Been lays lives in back a world when you're writing
by we.
Speaker 7 (09:36):
Are a position here.
Speaker 13 (09:37):
No, I don't feel market marginalize at all. President Trump
is an amazing man. I stand by him. I stand
by his administration and everything that he is doing to
fix the mess of the Biden administration.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
That's exactly right. I don't think it's mutual exclusive for
Representative Bolbert to be in favor of releasing these Epstein files,
whatever it might be left of them, and yet resolutely
standing by President Trump and supporting him. And she will
join us coming up at three point thirty three here
in the Mountain time zone for an exclusive one on
one conversation on the matter here on Ryan Schuling Live.
(10:08):
Switching gears now to one of our favorite reporters on
the national front. She is the national political correspondent for
Real Clear Politics, and she has been covering very closely
this story you may have seen breaking over the last
several days regarding the identity of the January sixth pipe
bombing suspect. The Blaze has reported, into my knowledge, they
(10:30):
are the only outlet that has done so that Capitol
Police Officer SHAWNI. Ray Kirkhoff matched a profile of a
video depicting the perpetrator the alleged pipe bomber, and this
was outside of both the DNC and the RNC. They're
in DC on January sixth, and that this profile was
using forensic gait analysis gait so the way a person walks.
(10:55):
How reliable is this science? How reliable is any of
this information? There's a lot of smoke out there. But
we cut to the chase and the fire and Susan
Crabtree joins us now in Ryan Schuling Lives. Susan, thanks
as always for your time.
Speaker 14 (11:07):
Oh it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So I turned to you for knowledge on the subject.
What do we know, what do we not know? And
what's out there right now that you view is either
ahead of the story or completely incorrect. Well, my part
of the story.
Speaker 11 (11:25):
As you know, I cover this Secret Service very closely
and have for years, but especially in the aftermath of
the Butler assassination attempt.
Speaker 14 (11:34):
And when that after that occurred, I started hearing from
There was more.
Speaker 11 (11:41):
Scrutiny of this pipeline incident on j six as well,
and I started hearing from Secret Service agents that they
were asked under the Biden era leadership to submit their phones,
their cell phones, and those cell phones and it was
all of the agents that worked on J six and
(12:03):
those cell phones were wiped and they were told that
it was a software migration that's happening, and no one,
absolutely no one believed them on that.
Speaker 14 (12:14):
So that's sort of where I'm looking at this.
Speaker 11 (12:16):
I was commenting about it on X from the perspective
that the Congressional investigators are now wanting the Secret Service
to basically cough up more information about why they did
not find that pipe bomb.
Speaker 14 (12:33):
At the DNC early that morning.
Speaker 11 (12:37):
Had they swept it for Kamala Harris to come in,
but they somehow missed a pipe bomb, even though they
have bomb sniffing dogs that are usually very reliable doing
some of these sweeps.
Speaker 7 (12:51):
So it's all very curious.
Speaker 11 (12:54):
When you talk about the date analysis. So I don't
know that much about data analysis, but I know that
at least if if we have narrow the field of people,
it could possibly be in maybe just maybe some law
enforcement authorities that aren't so tarnished like during the last
(13:18):
administration in the FBI could speak to these individuals.
Speaker 7 (13:22):
That might.
Speaker 11 (13:25):
Have this blaze said have gata analysis that fits the
gata analysis in the video of the person who left
the pipe that the FBI.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Released Susan Crabtree, national political correspondent for Real Clear Politics.
As you mentioned, Susan, you're as well sourced within the
Secret Service as anybody I know or follow or have
seen report on the matter. Short version. Is there any
sourcing that you have done through your reporting that corroborates
the Blaze report or is this kind of they're on
(13:59):
an island with what where they're doing on that reporting?
Speaker 14 (14:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 11 (14:03):
I have not been focused on J six, the pipe bomb.
I have been focused on the assassination attempt. But there
is obviously agents are very angry that they had their
phones wiped. It's part of the corruption that was taking
place under the Biden agent Biden era for a lot
(14:23):
of agencies. I mean Kimberly Cheetle, who ran the Secret Service,
was absolutely covered up the cocaine incident at the White House,
and I've done a lot of good reporting on that,
and the Secret Service agents were so mad about that
particular cover up of the cocaine that they issued what
is called the challenge coins with the monkeys on it
(14:44):
the SEO see nothing, nothing, Speak nothing monkeys, And they
gave me a picture of that challenge coin. The agent
who made it made two hundred of them because they
were looked like they were incompetent. And I think the
same thing is going here on here with the FCI.
Speaker 7 (15:03):
People are angry that.
Speaker 11 (15:04):
We don't have answers too many things that happen.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, Era and Susan. One of the mean characters in
this entire story that you and I have followed and
that you know personally is now the Deputy director of
the FBI, and that's Dan Bongino, And he was asking
these questions and I was following along on two fronts
here when it comes to the January sixth pipe find
both the suspect who had planted them in the first place,
(15:29):
the blaze alleges it's a Capitol police officer, former Capitol
police officer, and video that captures and I believe it
was represented Thomas Massey that has been pointing this out
on the video. Somebody discovered the pipe bombs and alerted
local police officers, DC police officers on site, and we
don't know who that person is. And the question that
(15:50):
Dan was always asking is why don't we know the
identity of the suspect, the person that planted the bombs?
Why not and then why wouldn't we know about this
hero who saved the day and found the bombs and
reported in the police. I mean, there's just so much
about this that doesn't add up.
Speaker 7 (16:05):
Absolutely.
Speaker 11 (16:07):
And then the woman Capitol police officer who the Blaze identified,
I understand she's now at a three letter agency and
that is raising I rouse, at least according to the Blaze,
that really to me if that is true, and we
need to get to the bottom of it. Of course,
we want the FBI to be digging into this, and
(16:29):
we likely they don't.
Speaker 7 (16:30):
You know, they don't usually disclose.
Speaker 11 (16:31):
That they're doing, but all of a sudden you'll have
one day where they just announce their findings and hopefully
that's what's going to happen.
Speaker 7 (16:39):
But the fact if she was you know, basically taken.
Speaker 11 (16:44):
And given a better job at the CIA or other
agencies in their national security apparatus. If that's the case,
then it just stinks to high heaven and we need answers.
This is as to be sort of like an insurance policy,
right it was another insurance policy.
Speaker 7 (17:05):
That we heard you know, the page instruct.
Speaker 11 (17:08):
Who are having an affair of the FBI employees agents
who launched the whole or behind the whole coakes of
the Russia hoax. This is another insurance policy. That's at
least that could be the explanation that.
Speaker 14 (17:26):
Has been circulating that if they went to certify, if
Vice President.
Speaker 11 (17:30):
Pence went to certify that election, uh, that these bombs
could go off creating a big distraction, or they were
could be found. I guess they were inoperatable. But we
still don't have all these answers.
Speaker 7 (17:42):
And I'm, you know, a national political.
Speaker 11 (17:44):
Reporter, and I've looked into this, and I don't have
all these answers, and that to me speaks to the
trust in our government that has been eroded. Was that
voted in many instances during the.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Biden the ministry in the final minute that we have Susan,
what is the next part of this story that you're
following up on that you're covering?
Speaker 11 (18:07):
Well, I am, I would like to know if she
did indeed get ferried away, if it's in particular Capitol
Police prison.
Speaker 7 (18:17):
Can we just confirm that.
Speaker 14 (18:18):
Part of it into if she did was employed by
a CIA. That's an very unusual track to go.
Speaker 11 (18:28):
From a Capitol police officer to an intelligence agency.
Speaker 14 (18:33):
That's not normal. Let's find out about that.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Follow her on exit. Susan Crabtree. She is the national
political correspondent for real clear politics, and as you can hear,
she is right there at the center of these stories.
With tremendous sourcing within the Secret Service. There is a
lot of anks within that organization that continues as we
have more questions than answers still on January sixth, and
(18:56):
on so many other things that happened in the aftermath
of that, Susan, the great stuff is always thank you
so much for your time. We'll talk again soon.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
I appreciate you, all right, Bank Susan.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Crabtree joining us here on Ryan Schuling Live. So just
another day in Paradise. Lots to react to five seven, seven,
three nine, Stay tuned. The Gales of November came early
fifty years ago.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
John H.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Bacon wrote a book about the sinking of the Edmonfist.
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Client paid advertisement. Additional disclosures at Trajanwealth dot Com and Lightfoot.
The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald and the Gales of
November did come early. It is the title of the
book by our next guest author, John U. Bacon, a
guy I go way back with during my days at
(21:30):
Michigan and covering the Wolverines and Spartans in the great
state of Michigan. He has written a lot about the
history of University of Michigan football. He's one of the
best writers that you'll find, and he's certainly the best
writer that I know and the perfect man for this task.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Again.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
It is a best seller on Amazon and on the
New York Times List. The Gales of November. The Untold
Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
John U.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Bacon joins us on Ryan Schuling Live. John, You thank
you so much for taking the time. R Well, it's
great to have you on and people can find that book.
It was released in October, and of course the tenth
of November marked the fiftieth anniversary of the sinking of
the Edmund Fitzgerald. Twenty nine men perished this in Lake
(22:15):
Superior above the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, my home state. John,
you what really motivated you to write this book and
where did that process all begin.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
We'll tell you what we are. I mean, everyone's fascinated
by the mystery of it, which is still not entirely solved,
although we get closer to it, I think in this book.
But what really drove me, Ryan was not that was
the twenty nine men. I didn't know who they were,
to know their names, didn't know what their lives are like,
on board, with their jobs are like with their lives
are like on shore, and their families. So it's the
people that really drove me the most to tell the story, and.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
It's such an important story to tell, John, I think
for the family members of the men who were lost,
and how personal that experience must have been in your
research doing this book. And I noticed that when you
did an appearance at the sight of the sinking of
the Edmund Fitzgerald exactly on the fiftieth anniversary on the
tenth of November, you didn't want to sign the book
(23:11):
there because you felt that would be inappropriate. Can you
take us through what those conversations have been like that
you've had with the family members of the men who
were lost?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Well, great question, Ryan, Well, I got to fourteen of
the twenty nine families in some form or other, and
they're all willing to talk eventually about the experience, being
the wives and the sons, and the daughters, and the
cousins and the nephews, nieces and even a few of
the girls who are the girlfriends of these guys. And
at first they are naturally cautious that you might imagine,
(23:41):
but over time we warm th things up and they
trust me with their stories, and I feel very good
about the final products. I feel good about that. But
as one of them told me, when you lose your
father when you're twelve years old, you don't get over that.
You get used to it and they're not the same.
And that has stayed with me.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
John you Bakon, author of The Gails of Nova, remember
the untold story of the m and Fitzgerald. It sank
almost exactly fifty years ago to the day, back in
nineteen seventy five. So John, you the challenge of this book.
There are multiple fronts for that. The emotional aspect that
you just described, the family members recounting their version of events.
That was such a painful day for them in the
aftermath of it. But then also it has been fifty
(24:21):
years since it happened. There was little known about what
actually happened on the ship because there were no survivors.
But as best as you can tell it for our listeners,
especially younger ones that do not remember it happening, what
went wrong that day, whatever.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Could have gone wrong, Ryan pretty much did go wrong.
And it's one of my exits, said John Tanner, who
was the superintendent of the Great Lakes Maritime Academy in
Traverse City, not too far from your old haunts of course,
at Central and whatnot. He said, when a big ship
goes down, it's rarely one thing. It's a series of
factors that start building up over time, the weather, the
design of the ship, mechanical malfunctions. That night, it's some
(25:01):
decisions made by the obviously the human element, and I
think he's right in this case. And as they also said,
the domino started falling. Watch out. So that night you
had the storm of the century, which ultimately delivered one
hundred mile per hour winds, that's hurricane force, sixty foot
waves where the mit Fhitzscherald was. And as one of
my experts said, this ship found itself in the exact
(25:22):
wrong place at the exact wrong time. No one else
was even within fifteen miles of this one spot.
Speaker 7 (25:28):
That.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Of course, the ship was designed to be very flexible,
maybe too flexible. It was probably overloaded. On top of that,
the long radar went out, the short radar went out.
The lighthouse at Whitefish Point that went out, so you're
basically flying sailing blind, and then they might have gone
over white A player called six fathom shoal and fathom
(25:49):
is six feet, so that's thirty six feet, but actually
ryan in some places it's only ten feet deep, so
you should be nowhere near this. But if you're a
sailing blind you can do it. And he might have.
I believe probably did.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
John you Bakon, author of The Gales in November, The
Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald joining us now all
these fifty years later with your exhaustive research, John you,
what can you tell us? And I'm sure it's highlighted
in the book. But what did you find out that
we did not know before? What were those highlights?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
I'll say a few things. One, he took the captain
took the northern route, whichever knows he did, and that
means you said, of going straight across the bottom of
this rectangle that is the lake, basically he took the
top three sides of the square. It's a safe way
to go. It's a very cautious decision. But it means
that it takes forty more hours to get to Whitefish Bay,
as the storm beat him to home plate basically and
(26:43):
was guarded it like a catcher. Essentially. That's one problem.
He does not know it as well. That's why it
might have gone over six fathom shoal. He takes the
other route fifty times a year, and this route wants
every two or three years, so he does not know
it nearly as well. And that's a factor. And then
of course it is pay me now, pay me later.
The winds going across you avoid them the first two
legs of this trip. By sticking near the shore. With
(27:04):
the last leg, you're going to get hammered, and they did.
I think also the question of going over right over
sorry six fathom shoal has been evated. I found four
guys that the investigator, Dick Race, the best diver on
the Great Legs. He dived the area six months after
the accident in spring of nineteen seventy six. His report
(27:27):
is buried somewhere, and his report is buried somewhere in
a box that can't be found. But I found four
witnesses to his conversations, and all fours are the same thing.
That he found the paint of the Emphis gerialds on
six fathom shoal. And that is not conclusive proof, but Ryan,
that gets a lot closer to it, because that guy
was the best in the business. So those two things
(27:48):
I think probably stand out.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
John you Bacon, our guests, the author of this tremendous book,
and you can find it on Amazon or your favorite bookstore.
It's a best seller there. And also the new York
Times rise here, the gales of November, the untold story
of the Edmund Fitzgerald. So as we account for what
happened on that day and all of these this perfect storm,
I mean quite literally, they're what happened, these factors coming together.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
John.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
So in the aftermath of that, were there maritime changes
in terms of safety protocols, how ships operated either in
that area or anywhere else, or largely was the response, Hey,
this was a once in a generation, a once in
a lifetime, one hundred years event, and it's just something
bad that.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Happens, the former, not the latter. And please report now
the stunny sat Ryan is from eighteen seventy five to
nineteen seventy five there were six thousand commercial shipwrecks on
the Great Lakes. Not rowboats, but big old freighters, cargo
ships and so on. That's a crazy number. That's one
a week every week for a century. Thirty thousand men
lost during that stretch, one a day every day for
(28:54):
a century. So this is this is the ship. There
was the Golden Boy the Great Lakes, the best ship
of the great life, the best captain. When this ship
went down, it was like Titanic. It finally woke up
a complace industry like nine to eleven in our day.
Basically a lot of things changed after that, so the
reforms after that finally were instilled. As one of my
experts said, when do you fix anything when it's broken?
(29:16):
So since then we have much better forecasting. They could
have done it that day. Of course, technology has also improved. Two,
much better communication of the forecast to those captains. They
were barely aware of the second storm coming up, so
that was a huge problem. And three, honestly, Ryan, just
good old plane common sense. I was up there last
year for the forty ninth anniversary. Sorry, and the next
(29:39):
day on Whitefish Point, remember eleventh, twenty twenty four, thirty
forty miles per hour winds, ten foot waves. Not nearly
as bad as they saw that night, of course, but
still pretty bad. Ryan. Every single ship was anchored in
Whitefish Bay that day, and I guarantee you that fifty
years earlier, not one of them would be so common
sense wait a day, sa cruse saviorship that is finally kicked.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
In final question, John you Bacon, our guest author of
The Gails of November, about the sinking of the Memphis
Jerald fifty years ago. So, John, you you've been on
tour now meeting people signing the book, You've had interactions
with the family, and we know the commercial success, it's
the best seller. But what has the reception been like
from those in the know, the family members of the
(30:23):
men who perished, and just fans coming to these events
and talking to you about the book?
Speaker 3 (30:28):
A great question. I now know a lot more than
I know a month ago about that.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
I saw the families just three days ago at Whitefish
Point and they are thrilled with the book, and they're
relief about the book that finally their father's stories are
getting out the way they wanted them to get out.
That feels good. What I'm hearing from readers is that
they are grateful to learn about the people, and to
that end, I think it might explain why this book
happens to be selling more with women than with men.
(30:54):
We did not expect that at all. We're top five
in the Pacific Northwest, top five in the Rockies where
you are, of course New England, and on Rolling Stone
magazine when we accepted the stories about the song, with
a number one story on Rolling Stone for two days,
we did not expect that, Ryan, because of course the
day three is when Taylor Swift sneezes or something, so
(31:17):
that whenever we're lost. We didn't hold it that long.
I can't lie to you.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Well you had it.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
We did held it. Yeah, we even had it. So
the response has been broader and deeper than we ever expected.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
The Gales of November, the untold story of the ed
Memphis Jerald. He's simply one of the best in the
business and the perfect man, as I stated, to write
this very book and tell this story, and like you said,
what are relief This must be for the family members
of the twenty nine men who perished on that day
almost exactly fifty years ago, John You Bacon. Great catching
up with you, my man. Thank you so much for
your time and great job with the book.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Ryan, Thank you. Anytime. You can find out more on
John Youbacon dot com, including how to order.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
It, John Youbacon dot com. Find out more there, and
of course you can order it on Amazon and your
favorite bookstore. You can go there and find it. Interesting
to hear him describe that it's the top five best
seller in all these different regions of the country, the
Pacific Northwest New England and right here in the Rocky Mountains,
So get your addition today. The Gales of November, The
Untold Story of the Edmun Fitzgerald, a time out wrapping
(32:19):
up hour number one of Ryan Schuling Live after this
and your Tax to five, seven to seven, three nine
to a round out as well. Just fascinating conversation in
my view with John you Bacon in the previous segment.
If you missed it you can catch on the podcast.
Zack will be posting those later this afternoon and evening.
(32:40):
The Gales of November. The Untold Story of the Edmun Fitzgerald.
It sank on November tenth, just three days ago, marking
fifty years since the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald in
Lake Superior, and twenty nine men perished that day. Gordon
Lightfoot of Chorus wrote an iconic song about it and
very important and keeping the memory of that tragic event
(33:01):
alive over the years, and then John Yu revisiting it
fifty years later and writing a prolific book on the matter.
I cannot stress enough what a talented cerebral writer John U.
Bacon is. He's just one of the best.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Ryan.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
So the deep State used FBI informants to incite violence
at the Capitol while the Capitol Police officers were inviting
protesters into the building and a Capitol Police officer was
setting pipe bombs around the city. I guess we're starting
to understand why so many Capitol police officers committed suicide
after being forced to take part in this deep state
false flag operation. Well, that is tragic, to be sure.
(33:40):
Ryan Sicknick died of a stroke, not from a fire
extinguisher to the head. That was fake news. Ashley Babbitt
was the only person murdered that day, shot by you guessed,
a Capitol Police officer. The informants Christopher Ray either lied
about through lies of comission or lies of omission during
his testimony. There's a lot about that entire day that
(34:02):
still doesn't add up. So glad that Susan Crabtree Real
Clear Politics joined us to open the show talking about
these matters we've been talking about the Epstein files. Stay tuned.
Coming up in our next hour, Representative Lauren Boebert an
exclusive conversation with her as she prestance for the release
of those files. We'll talk about Victor Marx, his interview
(34:23):
with Dan Kaplis from yesterday. Stick and stay
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