The Hall of Fame - Tales from 1265 Ep. 6

On the latest Tales From 1265, host Doug Russell speaks with the Packers official team curator, Brent Hensel, about the Green Bay Packers Hall of Fame, the first sports museum dedicated to a single franchise.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
This is Tales from twelve sixty five, a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts with presenting
sponsor Nicolay Law, your local awardwinning injury lawyers. If you've been injured,
get Nicolay, Wisconsin's winning team oflawyers that will get you back in
the game. Your host for Talesfrom twelve sixty five is Doug Russell.

(00:24):
The Green Bay Packers Hall of Famewas a pioneer, the first of its
kind anywhere, a museum that containsthousands of artifacts and enshrines the best to
have ever played. No one teamhad ever had its own Hall of Fame
when the Packers decided to display someof their artifacts in a temporary exhibit more
than fifty years ago. Nowadays,it's commonplace for teams to honor their past

(00:47):
and let's see permanent exhibits. Butit's fitting that football's most storied franchise was
the one to get it all kickstarted so many years ago. Recently,
I sat down at the Packers Hallof Fame with the Teams of Facial Cure
writer right pencil. So there isa separation between So the original organization that

(01:07):
created the Packers Hall of Fame isHall of Fame Incorporated. They are a
separate entity that I do work closelywith. A large portion of the collection
that you would see on display inthe Packers Hall of Fame belongs to them
that they loan us to display.They've existed for over fifty years. I

(01:30):
actually work for the Green Bay PackersOrganization, so it's my job to not
only do the displays and exhibits inthe museum, but also preserve the history
of the Green Bay Packers organization.So that's a pretty big job because this
is an organization that's been around forover one hundred years. It is it's
I mean, it's an iconic organizationand so and now the Packers there's a

(01:56):
lot of different I guess, movingparts and stuff like. So we even
try to like save the history oflike we had the professional soccer game last
summer. They'll have events in lambeauField. So I'm always thinking about,
I guess the future, and soI'll try to like save something from that
because you never know where you mightdo a display in the future. So

(02:19):
where does one get the background tobe the curator for one of the most
historic franchises in sports in the world. Great Another good question so I have
a pretty varied background. I havea master's degree in history. Ironically,
when I first started out, Ididn't When I went to college as an

(02:40):
undergraduate, I didn't really know whatI wanted to do, so I kind
of went into business. I alwaysliked history, but I didn't want to
be a teacher. And then,ironically, I actually got into teaching.
I taught for a couple of yearshigh school social studies, and then had
I guess an next experience where Iwanted to change my profession. What could

(03:02):
else could I do? And Iwas working on a master's degree, and
then I ended up interning at alocal museum, a Chippewa Valley Museum and
No Claire, Wisconsin. At thetime, I was working full time and
also working on my master's and thenI ended up getting an internship with the
Pro Football of Fame, and thatreally kind of started me down this path.

(03:24):
I was a great experience. Itdidn't quite lead me right to working
at for our Sports Hall of Fame, but I'll skip ahead. Eventually I
was I was working at a boysand girls club as a director in my
hometown when my former mentor at thePro Football of Fame said, Hey,

(03:45):
the Patriots are planning on building ahall of fame and would you be interested.
So I kind of applied in passing, not thinking too much about it.
Six months later they like contacted meand I got the job, and
I actually helped create their hall ofFame and museum, a hall at Patriot
Place. I worked for the Patriotsfor about seven years, and then the

(04:09):
Packers Hall of Fame had actually neverhad a curator. I made connections and
got to know the people that we'reworking here. I'm originally I grew up
in Wisconsin. I grew up aPackers fan, so I always dreamed of
having the opportunity to come home,and about ten years ago I had that

(04:30):
opportunity, and then I've been heresince. Well. The name of the
podcast, of course, is Talesfrom twelve sixty five, which is the
building that we're in right now.I mean, how much of a dream
come true is it to be ableto come to work at twelve sixty five
every day? It's definitely it's mydream jobs it is. It's pretty I'm
not gonna lie, it's pretty excitingto come to lambeau drive up to lambeau
Field every day and go to workand get to tell the story of some

(04:55):
of the amazing stories of this greathistory, the history it's I mean,
we like to tell the story.We like to say it's it's the greatest
story in sports because if you goback to the early history, um,
it's it's better than fiction. I'veheard, you've had our team his story
in Cliff crystall On. So it'sthe name of his four volume set.

(05:16):
You're right, right, And weuse that even in the in the museum,
we have a timeline that we callthe greatest story in sports, And
you know, it's it's it's it'ssuch a story of survival and I really
I always like to tie it intoit's like it's local community leaders that really
stepped up and helped save the teamand make sure we have this iconic football

(05:43):
team that still exists today. Andit's kind of local leaders actually that helped
create or helped create the hall offame if you go back is where why
we have a Packers Hall of Famethat exists today. At some point on
this podcast, we'll go back tothe beginning. We'll go back to nineteen
nineteen and even what led up tonineteen nineteen nineteen seventy five, I believe,

(06:06):
is when the Packers Hall of Famewas established. So you actually have
to go a little bit back,a little bit further. In fact,
we did an exhibit celebrating fifty yearsof the Packers Hall of Fame back in
twenty seventeen, and so I actuallydug up some of my notes from the

(06:26):
exhibit. When the Packers, afterCurly Lambo died in nineteen sixty five,
and then they renamed City Stadium,what it was called City Stadium at the
time, they renamed it to lambouField. There was some controversy over that,
and this is actually when citizens atthe time got to be talking what

(06:46):
we should do a museum honoring Lambo, and that was like the first talk
of it, but they actually gotbasically was a temporary exhibit that first opened
in July first, nineteen sixty seven, and it was a seasonal display in
the concourse of the old Brown CountyAreta that's actually been torn down since,

(07:09):
but it was up really in thesummer up to the fall, and then
they took it down. And sothis existed. Bill Brawlt, who's one
of the main founders of the BackersHall of Fame. He basically went to
Vince Lombardi at the time and said, hey, we want to create a
hall of fame a museum, andthe kind of the story goes as Lombardi
is like, fine, just keepthe tourists away from my players, stay

(07:33):
away from my players, and we'reall good. Interesting. So the building
itself, I saw the cornerstone downstairsfrom the original, so that's nineteen seventy
five, but the origin is beforethat, right, So that artifact that
you saw downstairs, that is Iguess I'm a monument to the first permanent

(07:54):
location that the Packers had. Soin the first iteration that first museum,
I mean, what kind of artifactsare we talking about what celebrated the history
of the Packers in that era leadingup to it, because there had been
so much already that it happened,and then you know, in the last
fifty years, obviously there's been alot more history that's happened too. It's

(08:15):
too bad we can't go if I'dlove to tease. So when we had
this exhibit, we actually tried torecreate a little bit of the exhibits in
the old Packers Hall of Fame.So it was like you're going through the
entrance at the Brown County Arena.It was really obviously was devoted to Lombardi
and his teams. So there wasa lot to Lombardi. In fact,

(08:39):
if you go through the Packers Hallof Fame today, you'll see the Lombardi
family was very generous with donations toHall of Fame Incorporated, and so we
have a lot of artifacts and plaquesand trophies. There was artifacts from Lombardi.
There was a lot of jumping aheada little bit. When they opened
up the permanent exhibit was a lotdedicated to bart Star. Obviously on the

(09:03):
Hall of Fame Iconic Quarterback. Westill obviously dedicate a lot to all the
different Hall of Fame quarterbacks that wefortunately had in this great organization. So
it happened during the Lombardi era,and Cliff has talked about this as well.
It's not not a secret that Lombardiand Lambo didn't necessarily see eye to

(09:24):
eye. Was there in a versionto putting some of the Lambeau era artifacts
in the Hall of Fame to assuagethe current at the time, I don't.
I don't think so, because Lombardireally didn't have a lot to do
with it, Like he didn't.He's pretty was pretty much stay away from
the players and um he if youwant to do it, fine, in

(09:46):
other words, right kind of exactly, So he didn't have a lot of
say. And then, as Isaid, like going back, the early
history was really they were trying tohonor Curly Lambo and who was one of
these the co founder of the Packers. And I think I'm going based on
like historical photographs I've seen of theesehibits, so I don't I'm not for

(10:11):
sure how much they had of Lambeau, but I know eventually a few years
later they had their first induction banqueton I'm looking at the date. It
was like in nineteen seventy. Septembernineteenth, nineteen seventy was the first induction
banquet at the Elks Club. Andthis is where they honored a number of

(10:33):
the older Packers. So Curly Lambeauwas there, Lavy Dilwig, Johnny Blood,
cal Hubbard, Mike Mitchellski, VernLewellin to name us few, and
they that's where they inducted them intothe Backers Hall of Fame. And I
would assume at the time this iswhere they asked them if they would donate
items that maybe they had, andthat's where we've acquired some of the collection.

(10:58):
It's difficult to tell because some ofthe records weren't always kept the best
in the early history of the Hallof Fame. I found that too going
through the early portion of this podcastjust trying to find some information. Cliff
has been incredibly helpful with the fourvolume set that he had, And there's
so many Packers historians, whether theydo it professionally or not, because of

(11:22):
what I've found, and I'm surethat you found this as well through the
you you say you've been here forabout a decade or so. The Packers
is it's so much a part ofthe history of Wisconsin. That's what I've
found. And I don't know whatyou found from being a younger fan and
then now doing this as a profession. How has your experience changed from being

(11:45):
a fan that loved history to nowthis is your your full time job,
the history of this iconic franchise.That it's another good question. I think
you really kind of your aspects changefrom being from a fan to being a
professional. So like when I talkto like younger students that are in high

(12:07):
school or college that are interesting interestedin getting into professional sports. I always
emphasize, hey, you're not afan anymore, So I'm being a professional.
I'm an historian that's trying to preservethe history of the organization. So
I'm looking at it from a differentaspect than a fan or like, let's
say, like a collector. I'mlooking at how do we tell like this

(12:31):
great story and how do we representgreat moments in team history? And so
I'm kind of looking at it fromthat aspect rather than I guess how a
fan might look at it, orlike, if you're collecting something, I
don't look at it, well,it's valuable or I want an autograph on
it or something like that. I'mnot I don't really care because I'm trying

(12:54):
to look at it perspective. Ifa fan or a visitors coming to Hall
of Fame, what do they wantto see? What you want to see?
I always try to look at itfrom the perspective is I think you
want to relive your favorite moments fromthe team's history. Maybe it was when
you were a little boy or growingup or something like that, and you
just want you want to see something, Oh, that's right, I remember.

(13:15):
I'll give you an example of here'sa story from my own childhood.
The first Packers game that I wasever supposed to go to was actually the
Snow Bowl in nineteen eighty five,Okay against the Buccaneers. Right, So,
my father had gotten tickets. Welived about three hours from Green Bay.
I was all excited and we gotup that morning and I'm like,

(13:39):
well, why haven't we left yet. I'm like, we're going to be
late. And I remember going intomy parents' bedroom and saying, we're gonna
be late. How can we haven'tleft, and my father saying, well,
it's a blizzard out there. Wecan't. It's too far to drive.
It would have been crazy, rightto try to drive that we could
have gotten an accident. And sothe first game I supposed to watch,

(14:00):
I ended up watching on TV.I was obviously very upset, sure and
such, and so you're not theonly one who missed that game, right,
Yeah? You look at photos likethere's there's not a lot of fans
in the stand you I'm sure mostof the people had to live local,
and that's how you got here.So I always think of that moment and
so hot it's so like we havewe have an interactive where there's there's great

(14:24):
games, there's weather games, andso you can click on a video and
you click on a video and youcan watch highlights from that game and kind
of relive it and relive your childhood. I think I noticed that too when
people people come into the Packers Hallof Fame, the second floor is really
kind of made up of the historyof the team, and so my mind

(14:45):
works chronologically. I'm going to gothe early history, early football in this
area in the Green Bay area,to Curly Lambeo Lombardi, and then the
most recent regime. But I noticedwhen people come up, there's no you
can go in any direction. Sopeople that grew up under the Lombardi dynasty

(15:05):
in the sixties will go directly tothat. Younger people will go to the
more recent Super Bowls like Super Bowlforty five or thirty one, and so
it just all depends on your perspective. And when you first started following the
Packers, it's kind of like thispodcast. We jump all over the place
sometimes. You know, our firstepisode was the rebirth of the early nineteen

(15:28):
nineties. You know, we've donethe sixties. Now we're talking about the
Hall of Fame. So it kindof in that same vein when the Hall
of Fame first got its brick andmortar across the street at the old Brown
County Arena in nineteen seventy five,What were the artifacts? What did it
look like? And I'll ask youin a minute how much it's changed,
But what was that early iteration forfans who came to this permanent display for

(15:54):
the first time. So, Imean, I can tell you a little
bit about it. I mean Iwent, I remember going as a kid.
The kind of the interesting thing isthat President Gerald Ford comes to dedicate
the building. I've actually ready.He tells the story of how he almost
played for the Packers. Curly Lambeauhad sent him a letter recruiting him.

(16:17):
He was he started at the Universityof Michigan, and he offered him two
hundred dollars to play for the Packers. Instead, he ends up going on
to law school and obviously better thingsas President of the United States. But
the first iteration from pictures I've seenand stuff is, like I said,
it's it's really kind of highlights bartStar. They had a display and actually

(16:38):
had several mannequins of bart Star anddisplay. In fact, when we did
our fiftieth anniversary recognizing the Packers Hallof Fame, we were able to there's
a collector that actually has the mannequinof bart Star. He's in a leisure
suit, so he wore as acoach in the seventies. I'll give him

(17:00):
a call out maybe like he's ahe actually knows probably more about Packers memorabile
than anyone. Chris Narett. Heso he actually had I don't know if
he still has it, but hehad the mannequin of bart Star and we
were able to display that. Sothat was a very prominent display. Some
things are like similar that, evento the Hall of Fame that there was

(17:23):
always an intro film, there werealways plaques that represented all the different championship
teams. I think one of thethings that I remember as a kid going
is they used to be able tokick a field goal into a net,
and I did that when I wasa kid. Throw the ball so like

(17:45):
the roundhold, So that was definitelyan iteration. There's been numerous iterations and
locations of the Packers Hall of Fame, so even when it got a permanent
location, eventually they renovated in nineteeneighty one nineteen ninety actually I think it
was nineteen eighty nineteen ninety one.And then eventually it moves into lambau Field

(18:07):
in two thousand and three with therenovation of the atrium. Correct, so
the atrium. With the creation ofthe atrium, it comes into the it
comes into lambeau Field. It's actuallywas in it kind of in the basement
or lower level. It's now wherethe current pro Shop is. And then
in twenty fifteen we renovated again theatrium and then the pro Shop went with

(18:33):
where the Hall of Fame was.We became two levels and became on the
main atrium floor along with the newrestaurant nineteen nineteen. And then it's actually
a little bit of a smaller space, believe it or not, but it's
a more efficient use of the space. Coming up next, this is the
turning point than a packer's history.And why is it the turning point because

(18:57):
they ended up playing the game andthey do go further in the red.
But then like a week later,they have like one hundred and fifty community
leaders that meet and basically what theydecided was have that first stock sale that
story and moren as we're joined byPackers curator Brett Hensel on Tales from twelve
sixty five. You're listening to Talesfrom twelve sixty five presented by Nicolay Law,

(19:26):
your local award winning injury lawyers.If you've been injured, get Nicolay,
Wisconsin's winning team of lawyers that willget you back in the game.
Doug Russell back with you. Myinterview with Packers curator Brett Hensel continues.
So, how many artifacts? IfI went through the Hall of Fame today

(19:48):
and I know that it changes,and maybe that's the second part of a
two part question, is what doesit look like today? How often do
you change? And what goes intothe decision to changing one exhibit to another,
Not that you're going to flush anything, but just to freshen it up
from time to time. That's aquestion. I get a lot. There's
over five thousand artifacts on display inthe Packers Hall of Fame. Currently we

(20:15):
have over eighty thousand items. SoI'm combining our collection and Hall of Fame
Inks collection because like I said,we work in uniform together. So there's
over eighty thousand items that are Sothere's that's seventy five thousand items or more
that aren't on display sure, whichas you can it is pretty typical for
music, correct, Like the majorityyou go to any museum, the majority

(20:38):
of the collection isn't going to beon display. And if you think about
the Packers, I have over onehundred years of history, We're gon we're
gonna have a lot of items.So I'm actually currently working on we Since
we have so many items, Ido try to change out we have.
Like I mentioned, the second flooris really the history of the team.
I try to change things like oncea year. Right now, I'm working

(21:02):
on it because I try to getit done before training camp starts. So
when we have all these new peoplecoming in to see to watch the Packers
practice and be excited about the newseason, they're also looking at new items.
So each exhibit or gallery I'll changea few things out. The main
things that really change are we dohave a temporary exhibit area that changes annually

(21:27):
once a year. So like rightnow it's it's honoring Leroy Butler's induction into
the Pro Football Hall of Fame.It's it's almost been an up for a
year. So this is my teasergo see it now, because it's it's
only going to be up. Iguess let's see like a couple more months
and then we'll change it out tothe next thing. I can tease what

(21:49):
the next exhibit will be. It'sactually going to be on the Packers playing
internationally. So it looks at boththem playing the game in London last year,
but they've also played numerous other times, like overseas or had traveling.
They had a very interesting traveling tourto Hawaii in the thirties. Okay,

(22:11):
so we'll look at that story withLambeau and Johnny Blood and such. And
then they played internationally a couple timesobviously in the preseason two. So we'll
be looking at those different aspects.But we really have we have like a
three year five three to five yearplan for our temporary exhibits. Now,
obviously it could change, like likeLeroy is a good example. If anybody

(22:36):
gets inducted to the Pro Football ofFame, we always honor them with the
display. We've done that with CharlesWoodson, Bobby Dillon, Ron Wolf,
Brett Barr, etc. But andthen we have there's lots of there's obviously
lots of ideas lots of great historythat we can do. The one other
area I would say that can changeis when you first come into the Packers

(23:00):
Hall of Fame. In fact,if you're near the intro theater, there's
a current artifact case, and sothat case is always from the most current
Packers season. So right now,it's a lot of Christian Watson items,
okay and such from whatever I wasable to collect from that past season.

(23:21):
And then it'll gradually change as Iget stuff from next season. Hopefully there's
lots of stuff from Jordan Love orwhoever that might be, or any of
the new players they drafted, thatthose will go on display, and so
it'll gradually transition to that twenty twentythree team. So what's the game day
like for you? Are you downon the field trying to grab stuff?

(23:42):
Is as you possibly can? Areyou in the press box making notes?
Does? What does game day looklike for you? It's not quite that
intense. We we are. ThePackers Hall of Fame is open to kickoff.
So as part of the management teamor supervisor team, we rotate who's
who's responsible that weekend. Saturdays areactually our busiest day. I believe that

(24:07):
we do just to promote. Wealso sell the lambeau Field Stadium tours on
the day before a game. We'lldo over a ninety tours um. They'll
start from eight am and go tilleight a couple every fifteen minutes every so
that's extremely busy. While we alsohave alumni tours packers alumni like Leroy Butler

(24:30):
or Antonio Freeman will lead those toursUM and they tell great stories and stuff
like that, and you get yourphoto with them on the lambeau Field.
But to go back to your originalquestion, the day of the game,
I'm really typically just attending it likea fan, but I'm also watching it
to what I might UM request.So usually I make that request, say

(24:56):
we're playing on a Sunday, thenthe next morning Monday morning, so I
will request it to football and ourequipment manager, Red Batty, and then
it's really up to the player whetherthey donate something or going us something to
display so and then that's how weget the items. Some players are easier
to get items from than others.Are there any displays that are permanent that

(25:22):
are not going away no matter what, whether it's a Super Bowl, whether
it's the Ice Bowl, And someart artifacts from that, and I'm just
speculating. I've been through that,Honestly, I haven't been through the Hall
of Fame in a couple of years. Well you need to check it out.
I will while I hear right.Well, like the permanent history upstairs
is is, it's pretty permanent.It's not going to change, but we're

(25:45):
always trying to improve it. Agreat example is we're actually updating our Ice
Bowl theater. So we've enclosed thetheater, We've built a wall, and
then one of the things it reallywas kind of devoted to Lombardi's legacy,
but it didn't really work. Sometimesyou try stuff and it just does an

(26:06):
appeal to pay ball and the designby the architect or the designers doesn't turn
out how you hope. So we'rechanging that out. We're dedicating a little
more to like the first two SuperBowls and that after you come out of
the Ice Bowl, because there's artifactcases for the Ice Bowl, super Bowl
one, and Super Bowl too.So that's something that's changing and should be

(26:32):
going up in the next couple ofweeks. But like so the Curly Lambeau
era, the Lambau Are we callit resilience we kind of have themes for
each of the galleries. I changea couple of the artifacts out, like
I said, but most of it'sit's pretty much staying the same because let's
face it, that stuff is goingback eighty years, a hundred years,

(26:53):
and there's not a lot of it. So if I get something that's available
that I can change out that's uniqueand rare, obviously I'm going to add
it. But that doesn't that doesn'thappen very often. The last example I
can give is someone loaned us anIndian packing pin, a worker's metal that

(27:14):
they wore when they worked at thatfactory, and so that's obviously pretty rare
and it's on display right now.But otherwise that stuff doesn't become available all
that often, so it doesn't changetoo much. And then, like I
said, we're we're always trying toWe also, besides great artifacts, we
have technology and interactives, and technologyis always changing and so we're always trying

(27:40):
to improve that. And so wedo have another new interactive idea that's probably
going to come out in the fall, and we're trying to appeal to different
audiences for like younger kids and stuff. So that interactive will hopefully attract them
another interrea. Maybe you thought aswe were coming in the building, this

(28:02):
is it's about a year old,but we have a quarterback interactive. It's
uh, basically, you can relivebecome you can be a Hall of Fame
quarterback, UM like Bart Star Brettfavor Aaron Rodgers and relive a great moment
from them make that throw or tryto complete it. So it's it's Bart
Star in the Ice Bowl, UhBrett five with the Monday Night miracle,

(28:27):
throwing the pass to Freeman and thenm Aaron Rodgers. There are allowed to
pick from what we did ended updoing. It needed to be in lambeau
Field, so we did it theseason opener when he comes back from being
hurt against the Bears and throws thetouchdown past to Randall Cob to win the
game. So you can you cando any of those moments and see if

(28:48):
you can complete all three and bean all Pro. How hard is it
defined media from back? I don'tknow how far your your media goes back
from, whether it's audio artifacts orvideo artifacts. How do you find that?
How old can you go back to? Because some of the old media,
I mean, it's pretty hard toget something at least this is an

(29:11):
audio medium, this podcast. Ofcourse you go back and some of the
recordings aren't that great from way backin the day. It can definitely be
challenging. We do have a greatresource as working for the Packers organization,
we are able to work with NFLFilms, so a lot of the footage
or even audio sometimes comes from them. But one of the other things is

(29:33):
because we we a few years backcelebrated our hundredth anniversary, we did a
number of projects like the four volumeseries that Cliff Crystal wrote, and we
also did a documentary. It waslike it's over twelve hours of footage.
You can find segments or decades ofit from on packers dot com. It's
called legacy. And so when wespend two almost three years doing that,

(30:00):
and so we tried to turn overany possible source we could for stuff.
We have a lot of great localpartners that have helped us in that regard,
from the Neville Museum, the GreenBay Press Gazette has been always actually
a great, I guess friend tothe Packers, even going back to the
early history. You can become fortunatesometimes with the fans will help us they'll

(30:25):
call in and or maybe they'll haveonce in a while, I get they'll
call in and they have footage thattheir grandfather's shot of Lambo's packers at a
game or a practice or something like. And then you have to see if
you can digitally convert it or ifthe film will actually still play. That
gets tricky too, because you reallyhave to almost send it to a conservator

(30:48):
or someone that professionally does that,because it's it's risky that you can even
watch it one time or it couldburn up. How many other teams,
and you mentioned that you work forthe Patriots and helped launch their Hall of
Fame. How many other teams,whether it's in the NFL or otherwise.
I think the Cincinnati Red zep wonin Major League Baseball? But how many

(31:08):
other teams have full time, dedicatedspaces for a Hall of fame? So
there's getting to be more and more. We actually belong to an organization it's
called the International Sports Heritage Association,and they're all made up of sports hall
of fames and museums actually all aroundthe world, but most of them are
in the US, and we gatherin a conference every year. But when

(31:33):
I first started, there wasn't.So the Packers are the first team to
have a sports Hall of Fame,going back to what we talked about in
nineteen sixty seven, they are thefirst to create it. There's more and
more teams now that have or atleast they're thinking about it. I swear
probably once a year we get ateam will call them they're thinking about building

(31:55):
something. But in the NFL rightnow, the Vikings event actually built a
museum at their training camp facility,so they have one. The Steelers,
I haven't been to it yet,They've come and visit us, but they
just created a hall of fame.The forty nine Ers actually have a great
museum that they have built. Infact, they I don't know if they

(32:17):
borrowed the idea from us, butthey have like Bill Walsh's office, like
we have Vince Lombardies really yes,wow, Okay, so that you can
view that. But there's all kindsof teams are like looking at it.
Even though like the Brewers now havethe display inside the stadium. So some
have displays inside their stadium or intheir concourse or I've even heard they'll have

(32:43):
stuff that in the suites where youcan see stuff that kind of reflects on
history. So it really just kindof depends. But more and more teams
are looking at it. Even whenthe Raiders were moving to Las Vegas,
they reached out to us and we'rethinking about building a museum or a hall
of fame or something like that.So now it depends not all of them

(33:05):
follow through, but it's certainly muchmore than it used to be. So
as someone who kind of got yourstart in sports museums in Canton at the
Pro Football Hall of Fame, Iknow that it's a bigger building, but
beyond that, how would you compareand contrast Canton to the Packers Hall of
Fame. Well, I have alot of respect from the Pro Football Hall

(33:28):
of Fame. I have a lotof friends that colleagues that still work there,
so they do a great job andstuff. But I do get a
lot of comments where will people willsay, oh, you got your Hall
of Fame. Your museums even betterthan the Pro Football of Fame. So
not I'm not being critical of them, but because they have a great they

(33:51):
look more at the overview of theNFL, so they're looking at the early
history. They probably have more.We have some artifacts going really far back,
but they have even more of them. Like American football originated from two
sports, soccer and rugby. Soif you look at football from the early
nineteen hundreds or late eighteen hundreds,and it's round like a soccer ball,

(34:15):
and so that's something you can seehow the equipment has changed. Like the
oldest football we have is probably circanineteen twenties, so it's rounder than the
present day football, but it's notquite as round as a soccer ball,
like you can see like I've thatI've seen like artifacts that they have,

(34:35):
and then they look at obviously iconicfigures from all the different teams and are
trying to represent the entire National FootballLeague as compared to us focusing on all
the great Packer teams and players.How many people work for the Packers Hall
of Fame we have, I'm justmaking sure I include everyone. We have
like four full time staff that managesmanages the Hall of Fame and the stadium

(34:59):
to and then we have two parttime staff that don't quite work full time,
but they're essential employees to doing allthe scheduling and hiring and all all
that great stuff. Because when itcomes to part time employees. We have
like twenty five and then we haveover I believe it's like over seventy tour

(35:21):
guides in order to do especially likethe day before a game that are most
Some individual have full time jobs anddo it on the weekends, and then
we have others that are retired anddo it for fun where they get to
turl the Packers history. So withall those different staff and individuals, it's
a group effort. But we havea manager of the Hall of Fame and

(35:45):
Stadium Tours, that's my boss.We have a group sales coordinator. We
have a person that does all thedigital stuff for our website, and schedules
are different events, like we haveHistory Nights in the Hall of Fame every
month or two and all that greatstuff. It's more than just a building.
I mean, you've got the Hallof Fame induction ceremony every summer as

(36:07):
well. How much of a productionis that? So I can't really speak
to that. So that is allof Fame incorporated that they loan us a
number of the artifacts, but theyput on the two big events. They
have a committee that selects the playersthat are inducted into the Packers Hall of
fame, so they are the onethat put on the banquet with the help

(36:27):
of the Packers organization. It's alwaysheld here in the atrium, but that's
that's their big event, and theyalso have a golf Classic where a Packers
alumni come back and they raise moneyfor their organization in that way. What's
the biggest thing that you've learned aboutthe Green Bay Packers in the time that
you've been here, the decade thatyou've been the Curator's a that's a great

(36:51):
question. I have to think aboutthat. There's so many things. I
work pretty closely with Cliff. We'veCliff Cristo, We've worked on a lot
of projects, and I view himas a mentor. He's taught me so
much about the Packers history. We'vereally since I've been here the last ten
years, we've really tried to cleanup the history because if you look even

(37:15):
you go back some of our theown history that we'd have in the media
guides and stuff, there was stuffthat's wrong, like and so we've really
focused on trying to clean that up. And it's tough because so much of
it is legend and lore and stufflike that, and the people that are
alive, and like I'm sure Clifftalked about Curly Lambeau and dispelled a couple

(37:38):
of myths, right the Gringo tradehe dispelled for example, So how that
all went out? You get allthat, There's so many different things,
there's different directions I could go,and nothing's actually popping to my head that
what would be my favorite thing?What do you think would surprise someone who

(38:00):
is maybe a younger fan of thegreen Bay Packers. Maybe they didn't know
the fact that Lambo and Lombardi didn'tget along, for example, Or what
the footprint of this stadium looked likebefore there was a football field outside,
and how it's grown and how itcontinues to grow over things like that.
Well, I'll actually go I havea couple things that popped into my mind.

(38:22):
You think about it, that thePackers could have there's so many different
times, like it's a story ofsurvival where they could have collapsed and not
existed, like this small town team. If you go back, so the
Packers of Green Bay has always beenamongst the smallest teams in the NFL.

(38:43):
You go back to nineteen twenty,there's only one team in the NFL that's
ever been smaller than Green Bay.That's Tanawanda, New York. And they
played one league game, and thePackers have obviously played over a thousand.
But I always like to go backto, like November nineteen twenty two.
How they made money in the earlydays was the people that attended. They

(39:06):
made money at the gate with theticket sales what they collected. And so
it's funny because now we go intogames with no matter what the weather,
but it's raining out, it's pouringout. There was a lot of rainfall
in November that year, and sothey were not making the money that they
had hoped and they were thousands ofdollars in debt at that time, I

(39:28):
think it was like fifteen hundred,and so they were going to do a
Thanksgiving booster game to raise money,and then what happens. There's more there's
ten hours of torrential rainfall and theinsurance doesn't quite cover the rainfall. And
at the time, the two cofounders, Lambeau and Calhoun, they wanted
to cancel the game. But thisis again where local leaders stepped up,

(39:52):
like Andrew Turnbull was the owner ofthe Prescazette at the time, and he
said no, play the game,won't cover you think. This is one
of the things that I really like, learned and loved, Like Calhoun actually
says somewhere this is the turning point. And then a Packer's history and why
is it the turning point because theyend up playing the game and they do

(40:14):
go further in the red. Butthen like a week later, they have
like one hundred and fifty community leadersthat meet and basically what they decided was
to have that first stock sale,so that next year in nineteen twenty three,
they sell stock at five dollars ashare get out of the deficit.
And then this is where the Packersbecome community owned. They're owned by the

(40:36):
fans. And whenever we think ofthe Packers, that's one of the great
amazing things about the Packers. Theirown the fans own the team. And
that's where that started. You couldcall it the greatest story in sports.
Hey that we might want to usethat, I might want to use that.
Brett Hensel, team curator from theGreen Bay Packers, thank you so
much for the time. This wasa great talk. I appreciate it very
much. Thank you for having me. My thanks to Packers curator Brett hen

(41:00):
and yes, I did take theopportunity to walk through the Packers Hall of
Fame while I was there. Theexhibits are spectacular and the Hall of Champions
will inspire you. Located inside thelambau Field Atrium, the Packers Hall of
Fame is open Monday through Saturday fromnine am until six pm, and on
Sundays from ten until five. Ifyou'd like the show, please let us

(41:20):
know by rating and reviewing us.If you really like the show, tell
a friend. Also, if there'sa story that you want us to tell,
you can let me know by findingme on Twitter at Doug Russell or
on Facebook at facebook dot com slashDoug Russell. I'm Doug Russell. Thanks
for joining me on Tales from twelvesixty five. This has been Tales from
twelve sixty five with your host,Doug Russell, presented by Nicolay Law,

(41:45):
your local award winning injury lawyers.If you've been injured, get Nicolay,
Wisconsin's winning team of lawyers that willget you back in the game. Tales
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