August 29, 2023 • 33 mins
In the 1980’s the Packers struggled against the mighty Chicago Bears, who had reasserted themselves as the “Monsters of the Midway.” On November 5, 1989, the two clubs squared off for the 139th time. But their final matchup of the decade was one that would live on forever. With 41 seconds left on fourth-and-goal from the Chicago 14-yard line, Packers quarterback Don Majkowski was flushed to his right. After a pump fake, he found Sterling Sharpe streaking across the end zone for the game-tying touchdown. But a penalty flag for Majkowski being over the line of scrimmage nullified the play – and the Packers win.
But that’s when instant replay intervened and overturned the call, to the jubilation of the sold-out Lambeau Field crowd and a generation of Packers fans, giving them the taunt…”Upon Further Review.”
On the latest Tales From 1265, join Doug Russell for a deep dive into the opening salvo in the turning of the tide in the storied Packers-Bears rivalry back to Green Bay.
But that’s when instant replay intervened and overturned the call, to the jubilation of the sold-out Lambeau Field crowd and a generation of Packers fans, giving them the taunt…”Upon Further Review.”
On the latest Tales From 1265, join Doug Russell for a deep dive into the opening salvo in the turning of the tide in the storied Packers-Bears rivalry back to Green Bay.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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This is Tales from twelve sixty five, a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts with presenting
sponsor Nicolay Law, your local awardwinning injury lawyers. If you've been injured,
get Nicolay Wisconsin's winning team of lawyersthat will get you back in the
game. Your host for Tales fromtwelve sixty five is Doug Russell. Every
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once in a while, there isan event so significant that it shakes the
foundation of sport in a sliding doorsbutterfly effect kind of way. You know,
the phenomenon where one seemingly unrelated eventalters the space and time continuum.
Instant replay in football first became apart of the NFL's landscape a full decade
before it was first implemented. Innineteen seventy six, the league's director of
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officiating, Art McNally wanted to seehow long it would take to review and
overturn a missed call on the field. The impetus a missed call involving OJ
Simpson that replay could have overturned.So McNally went to the televis as network
technicians, and they started experimenting atrivia question. You can win a bar
argument on is what game was thefirst football game ever to use instant replay
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as an officiating tool. The answerthe nineteen seventy eight Hall of Fame game
between the Eagles and Dolphins. Thefirst ever game to use instant replay at
all the nineteen sixty three Army Navygame in Philadelphia, about two weeks after
the assassination of President John F.Kennedy. The early results of instant replay
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we're not promising. In nineteen sixtythree, the experiment failed about thirty times,
and the one time it did work, announcer Lindsey Nelson had to tell
a very confused audience at home thatno Army did not score again. What
they saw was actually on tape rightafter the play it happened. As we
all know now, technology moves prettyfast. Tell any of the Army or
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Navy players that day that within fiftyyears there would be pocket computers with the
power to run every piece of technologyyou can imagine, from opening your garage
door to accessing any piece of informationever published. And they might have had
you fitted for a straight jacket.So it's not surprising that instant replay as
an officiating tool was still more thana decade away, but like its first
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day iteration in December of nineteen sixtythree, the early results of its next
natural step was not promising, notwith the Hall of Fame game or any
of the other six preseason contests theNFL used as guinea pigs in nineteen seventy
eight. For one, the technologywas too expensive, which is how all
new technology that we take for grantedtoday is. After all, the first
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microwave ovens cost five thousand dollars inthe nineteen forties, more than any car
on the market at the time.Secondly, the system took too long to
use and produced mostly inconclusive results.Instant replay may have been dead for the
time being, but the idea hadsome merit. Fast forward to nineteen eighty
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five, and owners were getting antsyafter some questionable on the field calls.
By then, the technology had improved, an instant replay had become ubiquitous,
so why not try again with officiating. The nineteen eighty five preseason saw eight
exhibition games be used as experiments foran improved replay system, and the results
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were promising enough for the question tobe asked if it should be used that
season in the playoffs. And whilethat vote narrowly failed, another vote to
implement a system of replay for officialswas passed for the nineteen eighty six season.
Granted, it looked a lot differentthan what football fans had become used
to today. There were no coacheschallenges, for example. All replays were
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generated by the review official upstairs orwhen requested by the on field officials.
The only reviewable plays were plays ofpossession, boundary plays and too many men
on the field. The debate wasspirited, and the system was in place
for just one years, just tosee how everyone felt about it. After
it was implemented, As expected,there were some bumps along the way,
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but the replay system was approved forone more season in nineteen eighty seven,
and then another for nineteen eighty eight. That brings us to nineteen eighty nine,
the season that in Green Bay gaveus what is still known to this
day in the NFL simply as theinstant replay game. The nineteen eighty nine
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season was one of change in GreenBay. Lyndy Infante's first season nineteen eighty
eight had not gone all that well, the Packers finishing just four and twelve.
That record may not have been anideal way for Infante to start his
coaching career, but it did givethe Packers the number two overall pick in
the draft. Unfortunately, that turnedout to be Tony Manderet, who didn't
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produce up to his promise, buthe was also the no brainer pick and
consensus number two sali action throughout theNFL. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
Despite the Packers abysmal nineteen eighty eightrecord, there was some actual promise
for the team heading into the season. Sterling Sharp had asserted himself as an
elite receiver after justice rookie season,and Don mckowski was starting to display flashes
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of brilliance in his third training camp. The nineteen eighty nine season began with
a loss, then a win,then a loss, been two wins and
then two losses. After the Packerstwenty three twenty overtime win over the Lions
at Milwaukee County Stadium, the hatedChicago Bears came to Green Bay. We
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know today that the Packers Bears rivalryhas been pretty one sided over the last
thirty years in Green Bay's favor.Flip that around, and that's how dominant
Chicago was in the nineteen eighties.The fuel was Bears coach Mike did because
pure hatred for all things green andgold, stemming back from his own playing
days under George Allis in the nineteensixties. But this date was November fifth,
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nineteen eighty nine. It was anovercast but dry, fifty three degree
day in Green Bay, Wisconsin.The Packers responded by scoring on their first
possession, Mkowski wide open down.Green Bay CBS's Dick Stockton and Dan Fous
had the call that day. Aquick Don Mkowski to Clint Didier twenty four
yard touchdown strike gave Green Bay aseven to nothing lead. After a Kevin
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Butler twenty five yard field goal anda scoreless second quarter, the Packers clung
to a seven three lead at halftime. The third quarter was all Chicago.
Another Kevin Butler field goal pulled theBears to within one. They went ahead
on a two yard Brad Mustard touchdownplunge Again, it's Mustard and he's in
for a touchdown. Up until thispoint, the one hundred thirty ninth meeting
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between football's two oldest rivals had beenfrankly unremarkable. Then the fourth quarter started,
and all hell broke loose. Asthe final stanza began, Don Mkowski
marched the Packers deep inside Bears territory, trailing thirteen to seven, continuing their
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drive that ended the third quarter onthe Bears twenty yard line. Green Bay's
first potential go ahead score was thwartedby a future NFL head coach having maybe
his best ever game. First andten at to twenty, Kowski loses the
ball fumble and we may have ourfirst turnover the game. We do.
The Bears have recovered. Ron Riveramakes the recovery for Chicago and it was
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John Roper who slapped it away fromMkowski. That was the first Packers fourth
quarter red zone turnover. It wasn'ttheir last. Kowski in trouble intercepted by
Rivera, and Ron Rivera makes acritical interception. He recovered the fumble moments
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ago for the Bears, and nowhe picks one off. The Packers defense
held, however, and got theball back one last time for Mkowski.
The Green Bay drive began on theirown twenty six yard line. Mkowski found
wide receiver Perry Kemp over the middlefor twenty seven yards to the Chicago forty
seven and then another near disaster whenMkowski's pass was batted in the air and
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nearly caught by Steve McMichael, whodespised the Packers and ironically ended his career
with them in nineteen ninety four.But that's neither here nor there. That
was scare number one. The GreenBay still had possession, at least then
it was Mkowski to Aubrey Matthews foreleven yards and a first down. Big
tight end ed West was next haulingone in for a fifteen yard gainer,
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which brought us to the two minutewarning. Two plays later and it was
third and six from the fifteen yardline. Rolling right, Mikowski found running
back Herman Fonontino sliding up to thenine, but it wasn't enough for the
first down. It was instead fourthand inches, and while Vince Workman's dive
over the top garnered the desperately neededfirst down, the bare turned the Packers
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offense in the opposite direction they wereheading in Acowsky loses. The back Packers
were covered second and goal back tothe fourteen, and the past intended for
woodside broken a Cooski and I wasdeflected. Three plays from the Bears seven,
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needing seven and losing seven yards.That is that brought up fourth and
goal from the Bears fourteen with fortyone seconds left. The ball game came
down to one final offensive. GreenBay gasp acowscu rose to time stolen.
So I was running to my righttowards a line of scrimmage. I pumped
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faked and you could see Mike Singletaryconverts on that pump fake. I remember
watching that ball cross in front ofme, going into the hand of thirty
charge. So there was jubilation inGreen Bay only for a moment for playing
a line of clock around. Ihave the Bear's take over from my perspectives,
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Dandy on the Bear's sidelines, lookingright down the line of scrimmage.
The ball was released beyond the fourteenyard line, which made it to my
way of thinking, I'll go forwardpass line official Jim Quick on one of
the myriad of documentaries produced to commemoratethe instant replay game for NFL Network,
jubilation to agony in the blink ofan eye, more more accurately, the
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flight of the flag. But justas the Bear's offense was about to take
the field a glimmer of hope.They were reviewing the tape right now,
and you could take a look yourself. A line of scrimmage was the fourteen
yard line, and I don't know, I think we got to take a
look at this because his right footwas on the fifteen when he let it
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go. Take it again. Now, remember that fort teen yard line was
the line of scrimmage. The approachesat fifteen. There's a punk fake.
Oh that's a good play, that'sa touchdown. Well, the game will
hinge on this call here and sipwatch his right foot clearly on the fifteen
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yard line. Dan Founds making thecase in the CBS television booth with Dick
Stockton. After what seemed like aneternity of cameras pointed and next strained into
a tiny window in the press box, word was relayed down to referee Tom
Duley. Have re over. Pandemoniumensued at venerable lambeau Field. Maybe not
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since the ice bowl was there asmuch unwidled joy. Following a touchdown on
the south end zone. After aneight game skid against their most hated rivals,
the Packers had finally slayed their dragon. It was Don mckowski's moment.
It was standing, I mean,you know, and we fought back again
during time after I threw at lastat the first interception down his scoring zone,
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and Linda came up to me andsaid, don't worry, keep your
head up that you're still gonna bethe hero of this game. And I
guess he had a vision or something. I asked the guys the truth.
He said that, so God blessasked for the man who caught the game
winner, second year star Sterling Sharp. He saw the big picture. All
right. Now, we're sitting ina driver's seat controlling our own destiny,
and we just got to continue toplay well and come up with some big
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plays. But as for instant replaying, it wasn't universally loved at all at
the time, even by many Packers. But maybe this once it was okay
better in linebacker John Anderson and theyreviewed it, and the longer they reviewed
it, the better I started feeling, because I usually pretty good signed that
they're not really sure about it.And I still am not real crazy about
that instant replay, but today I'lltake it. Likewise, for head coach
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Lindy and Fonte, I tell youwhat, if anybody didn't like the instan
to replay, right now, you'recrazy. Urban legend has it that Chicago
coach Mike Ditka immediately flew off thehandle, demanding that the game be treated
as a disputed game, even goingso far as having the Bears pr staff
place an aster risk next to thegame to denote the dispute in the media
guide and in the team record books. The truth of the matter is that
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call came later. It certainly didn'thappen right after the game. It's part
of the system. You know,the system's there. You know it's been
there for a couple of years.So you know, there's no use crying
about that. I'm not going tocry about it. Even the next night,
having looked at the film over andover, Difka still wasn't going to
raise a stink about it. Mike, Now that you've seen it again and
again, what do you think.Well, I don't know. Again,
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I don't know what. I knowwhat the rule is. Now his arm
cannot be past the ball, pastthe lint of script the ball when he
releases the ball. Now he's releasingthe ball there, it looks like it
is at the fourteen. So it'sreally a So it's a touchdown. So
they won the game anyway, itdoesn't matter. So what are you asking
me for? Well, even well, I'm asking you because I really don't
care. I don't care. Really, I really don't care. If it's
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a touchdown, that's what it's goingto stand. I really don't care about
that. Well, it would affectyour opinions on replay and replace that you
should repay, thinks. But becausethe people that are first of all,
the people that are in the boothare unqualified, that's all you can say.
Well that the thing that replay isnot not a good thing, which
I was in favorable for a while, but I well it's hard to say
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I wouldn't be in favorable again.Yeah. The interesting thing about this,
getting back to this, is thatthat it looked like there you couldn't prove
conclusively that the ball hadn't gone beyondthe fourteen and so you're not supposed to
change it. But it's conclusive.I forget his name, I'll bet you
you mean you're not going to filea protest on this or anything to the
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league? No, why because justto go through the procedure to let it
know, to be known, putit on record. No way, no
way, huh. No, welost the game dry and that's it.
It's cutting dry. A dead situation, seems Mike Dick. It was likely
talked into making it an issue.Nevertheless, the final score in every record
bug for the Packers Bears game ofNovember fifth, nineteen eighty nine now stands
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fourteen thirteen Green Bay, with thewin coming up next, the architect of
the instant replay masterpiece that hangs infootball's lube, Packers Hall of Famer Don
mccowski, joins me next, I'mDoug Russell. You're listening to Tales from
twelve sixty five The Instant Replay Game. You're listening to Tales from twelve sixty
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five, presented by Nicolay Law,your local award winning injury lawyers. If
you've been injured, get Nicolay,Wisconsin's winning team of lawyers that will get
you back in the game. DougRussell back with you. On November fifth,
nineteen eighty nine, one of themost memorable games in Packer's history was
played, and it spawned a threeword mantra that forever entered our lexicon.
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Upon further review, documentaries about whatbecame known as simply the Instant Replay Game
had been produced. The NFL hadto step in and tell the Chicago Bears
that they had to fully acknowledge thelaw without any asterisks in their record books,
and for the Packers as a whole, that win and the nineteen eighty
nine season signaled that after decades offrustration, winning in Green Bay was possible,
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even winning over one of the greatteams of that era and a team
that dominated Green Bay in the nineteeneighties. But the instant replay game would
not have been possible if not forthe season long breakthrough of quarterback Don Mkowski.
Mccowski, in his third NFL season, led the league in completions and
yards that year and was the runnerup to Joe Montana in the voting for
NFL MVP, and it was DonMkowski who found Sterling Sharp in the end
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zone on fourth and goal with undera minute left to eventually secure the fourteen
thirteen win. Don Mikowski now joinsme here on Tales from twelve sixty five.
Don, I appreciate the time,so much pleasure to be here.
Thanks for asking me. Absolutely.Let's start with the nineteen eighty nine season
as a whole, but because ifyou rewind to nineteen eighty eight, you
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guys were four and twelve, butyou had won your last two games.
Some lamented losing out on Troy Aikmanin the draft, which I suppose worked
out for you, But there weresome glimmers that after the last two games
of the season in eighty eight,maybe Green Bay had their quarterback of the
future with the way that you hadplayed. Was there optimism on this team
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heading into the nineteen eighty nine seasonand that it could possibly be a breakthrough?
Yeah. Absolutely. You know,nineteen eighty eight was the first year
we had new coach Lindi and Fontein Green Bay, so it basically took
that whole year to learn his verycomplicate, complicated offense. And you know,
by the end of the year,we finally caught what was going on
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and we were understanding the concepts andwe really improved. And like you said,
after last two wins of the season, last two games, we felt
really good about ourselves. I knowI certainly did. I was a lot
more comfortable by the end of theyear than I wasn't at the beginning of
the year. So going into campin eighty nine, we were extremely confident
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and myself included. Let's go intoBears week. It was week nine,
first week of November. You werealready four and four, already with as
many wins as the entire previous season. What do you remember about getting ready
to go up against Chicago because youhad never beaten them through your first two
seasons in the NFL. They wereonly a couple of years removed from that
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great Super Bowl team. Does anythingabout that week of preparation at all stick
out in your mind? I knowit's been over thirty years now. I
don't mean to day I listen,I was, I was a senior in
high school. I remember it verywell, but it was a long time
ago for me too. What doyou remember about that week? No,
No, what I remember, Icertainly do remember it well, was that,
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you know, it was the Packersversus the Bears, but I had
a pretty good chip on my shoulderbecause you know, the Chicago Bears quarterback
was Jim Harbaugh at the time,and we both came out the same year
and he was a first round draftpick, and due to injuries in college,
I ended up being a ens rounddraft pick. So I was really
looking forward to going head to headwith him. You know, with both
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our teams, and I was reallyexcited about it, and you know,
I just I knew we could wecould definitely hang with them. And you
know the way it turned out,man, we were we handled them pretty
well, even though the score reallydidn't indicate it, but we really did
all games. Well, we'll getto that game in just a second.
I do want to ask you,though, going into that, how intense
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was the Bears Packers locker room rivalry, at least in Green Bay. We
know that there was a lot ofhatred between those two teams, but how
intense was it for you guys asyou were kind of turning the page into
the Lindi and Fonte era. Yeah, and I was there two years.
Well, I was there one yearbefore Lindy came, when Forrest Gregg was
the last year, hence coaching eightyseven. Let me tell you you talk
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about intensity and Barrass Packers rivalry.Uh, you know, Forrest Gregg having
played offensive line with the bar StarLombardi teams, playing against Mike Dicka,
there was some there, some Idon't want to say hatred, but there
was some intensity that you can sayfrom from my rookie year on Man that
was different, you know than anyother games. So you know, right
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from that, right from that firstseason, I knew that this was a
special game. And you know,back then as when you know, the
Packers had you know, we hada the guys were wearing their numbers on
there like a bounty type thing backthen, you know, and which wouldn't
be allowed now. And you know, Jim mcmanhn got slammed by Charlie Martin.
So there was a lot, alot of hatred between two teams.
It was intense. So going intoeighty nine, I knew it wouldn't be
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any different, you know. Itwas just different players, some different players
mostly for our team, but alot of the same for those guys that
were the great eighty five Bears werenow you know, three years past that,
and we were looking to take advantageof it. Let's get to the
game itself. You find Clinton didhere for an early touchdown. You take
a seven and nothing lead. Butthis was an intense game, and offensively
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the Bears were handled, certainly bythe Green Bay d defense. But on
the flip side, how tough wasthat Bears defense the rest of the way,
because they too put the clamps downon your offense. Oh they did.
I mean they were they were reallygood defense still, you know,
not as good as they weren't eightyfive obviously, but with Richard Dent,
uh you know, Steve McMichael andthey had you know, Mike Singletary,
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Sean Gale and the secondary. Theyhad a lot of good players still remaining.
And you know Dent was a problem, you know, and it wasn't
easy, but they played. Theyplayed a lot of tough man to man
that game, I can remember,and you know, we moved the ball
well, we just a lot oftimes we didn't get into the end zone.
Uh. I remember in the fourthquarter. Maybe we can get to
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it, but before the big touchdownpass. You know, I did throw
an interception on the drive in thefourth quarter before the touchdown pass. And
then we got the ball back andwe drove the length of the field again
and I got hit and we fumbledthe ball. Luckily we got it back
for a third time and that wasthe winning drive. So it was it
was tough saling, you know,it was tough going, especially in that
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fourth quarter. Yeah, no doubtRon Rivera had the game or maybe the
quarter of his career. You stillhave nightmares about Riverboat Roun. Yeah,
it's funny. I ran into himthe Super Bowl party a couple of years
ago and met him for the firsttime off the field, and we were
laughing about it because, yeah,he did have a pick and I don't
know, a fumble recovery or whatever. Yeah, so I didn't I don't
have it nightmares anymore. But itwas fun just to talk to him about
it, especially since we won.Yeah, no doubt, how many times
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have you replayed that final drive inyour head because it was kind of a
roller coaster, as you mentioned.I mean, the fourth quarter was certainly
a roller coaster as well, witha couple of turnovers after driving the length
of the field. But that lastdrive, I mean, that's honestly,
that's the stuff of legend. That'swhat documentaries have made. We're doing a
whole Tales from twelve sixty five episodeon it. Yeah, the cool thing
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or the lucky thing or the goodthing for me was, like I was
saying that the previous drive that wedrove the all the way down the feet,
I believe I threw an interception insidethe ten yard line to Ron Rivera,
like we were talking about. Butthen we get. We did get
the ball back for a third time, and when we did, we drove
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the the length of the field again. Overcame some penalties, overcame some almost
another turnover fumble, and you know, we moved ball the way down inside
the ten. There was a penaltycalled which moved us back to the fourteen,
you know, and it ends upgoing down to a fourth and fourteen
call. But I remember the thingbefore the big drive though, after I
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threw that interception, before the beforethe final drive, I came out of
the sideline and I was starting tohear some boobirds and you know, deservingly,
so you know, it's two turnoversin a row and a fourth quarter
and I came out of the sideline. I'll never forget Lindia, and Fante
grabbed me by the face mask,Kenn. He said, you better keep
your head in the game because you'restill going to be the hero today.
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And I'm like, you got it. And that's the way it worked out.
You know. He had a hehad a vision and he called it
right. And when we did getthat final drive, we took it the
length of the field, and youknow, in our last play of the
game was that fourth and fourteen bigplay of one of the biggest plays that
I was involved in for sure.Now down Packers Hall of Fame at the
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great Don mccowski joining us on theinstant replay game here on Tales from twelve
to sixty five. Let's talk aboutthat final play. You get down inside
the ten, as you mentioned,first and goal, but three plays later
you're pushed back to the fourteen fortyone seconds left on the clock. What
was the call? How did theplay develop from the guy who had the
ball in his hands? Interesting becauseyou know they the Bears in that last
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drive, they were blitzing me alot, and they were forcing me to
through sight adjustment hot lead, andyou know, on this fourth down play
a fourth and you know fourteen,we were expecting them to come out in
the full full man blitz as welland play man to man behind it.
So you know, Lyndy Cold ina play which we went four receivers spread
and we had Sterling sharp spread allthe way out to the left, and
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we were expecting the blitz. Iwas in the shotgun and we were going
to throw a quick six yards slantroute to Sterling hopefully he could break a
tackle and take it in. Youknow, that would be a great call
against a blitz. Unfortunately, whenI was in the shotgun, when the
ball came back and I took myfirst step back, they dropped. They
were faking the blitz. They droppedback in the zone and a six yards
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slant un versus a zone not agood call. So I recognized that immediately
and I just started to improvise rightsoon as I thought was zone. I
was like, oh, this isnot good, so I better buy some
time, see what we could do, and just you know, make something
happen. That's exactly how it turnedout. As I was rolling to my
right, you know, I hadto avoiding a rush out run a guy.
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I pumped fake before I threw theoriginal pass, and a lot of
guys converged on that pump fake,and it left just a little window open.
I was able to reload and beforeI got to the line of scrimmage
and real close to the sideline,you know, I fired that ball back
through the middle and Sterling had comeall the way from the opposite side of
the field and did great job andjust find that little window, and it
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was It was a heck of aplay. It was just a play that
we practiced a lot, because it'sjust called a scramble rule receivers, I
supposed to just run with the quarterbackthe way he's scrambling, and you know
that that play, you know,not that particular play, but you know,
that type of drill is practiced alot. So we were pretty good
at it, and luckily, youknow, we were able to execute that
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kind of last play. Did youfeel like you were close to the line
of scrimmage? I mean, youknow, I knew I was closed.
I mean obviously because I had apretty good field when I stepped up in
the pocket. I always had areally good knack to run lateral right before
the line of scrimmage. And youknow, one thing I was really concerned
about it was stepping out of bounce. But I kind of threw the ball
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from in bounce and I floated outof bounce, you know when I released
it, and you know my footwas you know, I didn't know how
close I was, you know,until I saw the replays and when I
got home actually, you know,or he watched the film the next day.
But you know, when you lookat look back at it, I
was a yard behind the line ofstreamers. My foot was on the fifteen,
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line of streammers was on the fourteenth. It was it was really pretty
easy calling. I remember Dan Foltswas up in the booth calling that game
and he thought the same thing.You know, he's a experienced quarterback and
he said, I don't think there'san issue here at all. Look at
it. He circled my foot onthe fifteen and he's like, this is
going to be a touchdown, noquestion. And he was right. But
when you saw the flag, canyou put into words what was going through
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your mind? Yeah? That wasThat was unbelievable, such a punch in
the gut because I mean, toexecute a play like that on fourth down
and in that pressure situation, andto make something happen on such a great
play, even though it was improvised, and to have someone to call a
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flag who was on all the oppositeside of the field and saying that my
hand was over line of scrimmage whenI released a ball. It was actually
a pretty ridiculous call when you lookback at it. But if it wouldn't
have been overturned, it would havebeen a darn shame because, like I
said, executing a play like thatin that pressure situation. That's tough to
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do, and especially on a lastplay, last play the game pretty much
for your offer and tells your lastshot. It was, it was a
great play. I'm glad they I'mglad they got it right because I mean
it was exciting. I mean whenthey when they came back with the new
call when it came down to thefield, you know that referee said,
after further review, we have areversal touchdown. Man, that was a
(28:44):
larist. I've ever heard the Packerscrowd for me at the player when I
was there, and it was thefirst time my athletic career. I actually
when I got to the sideline afterwe kicked the extra point and we took
the lead, I was in thesideline that was actually had tears of joy.
Was the first time I was likecrying, like you know before,
I never I never did that before. And that was that was something else
(29:07):
that was that special. Could youhear Tom Dooley's call in the field or
did you just see his arms goup and hear the crowd react. No,
I heard it. I could hearit. I didn't hear the first
part, but I think he caughtlike from the middle of it. You
know, we didn't hear after furtherreview, but he goes, you know,
we have a reversal touchdown, sawhis hands go up and it was
it was something else. Yeah,I always remember that. It was pretty
(29:30):
cool and the thing was cool thatwhile we're waiting during that, I guess
they redeed it for four minutes,Singletary came up to me and said something.
Man, he was talking some kindof smack like, hey, you
know, nice try two bad's goingto be called back or something like that.
And I said something to him,which I probably can't say. I
was kind of podcast. Man.It was good. We were face to
(29:52):
face. Man, it was prettyintense. What do you think of the
stick that the Bears put up thatMike did could put up. I mean,
he was steamed about it for years. He might he will be steamed
about it. And I think he'sin his eighties right now. I think
he might still be mad about it. Oh, if I ever run into
him, he's always mad about it. Man. He's nice to me,
but he's always I don't bring upthe game, but when people do,
Man, he's still I did aninterview about ten years ago when he was
(30:15):
working on Fox or something like that, and it was Fox did this interview
talking about the Packer Barris Robbalry,and it didn't take him long to get
heated up when they started that game. He still bugs him, so yeah,
yeah, he said that that wouldhave been in Chicago. In no
way would that have been a touchdown. He said that was home cooking all
the way. Yeah. I don'tknow that the NFL referee system works quite
(30:37):
like that. Packard's Hall of FavorDon mccowski joining us here for just a
couple more minutes as we talk aboutthe instant replay game. November fifth,
nineteen eighty nine. As an aside, Don I mentioned on the radio that
we were going to be talking today. I got a bunch of messages from
Packers fans and they all wanted meto send to you their best wishes.
Some of your physical struggles with yourankle have been documented on your social media
(31:00):
and obviously everybody wishes you well asa Packer's legend and an asset to the
Packers family and the Packers community toa person. They also wanted me to
ask you how you're doing and howyou're feeling right now. You know I'm
doing I'm doing much better right now. I just had my twenty fifth surgery
in February. I had a totalhip replacement and I had some torn pendants
(31:21):
reattached to my hip, and itwas a it was a really difficult surgery.
But it's been over six months nowand I'm finally, you know,
getting where I can walk, youknow, a little bit more pain free.
But there it was a struggle fora lot of years, a lot
of years just surgery after surgery,nine ankle surgeries, and then I had,
you know, degenerative disc disease inmy lower back. I ended up
(31:44):
having my back sews, and Igot degenerative disk disease and my neck had
two surgeries on my neck. Myneck is seeded. So it was it
was a lot of surgeries, justa lot of you know a lot of
effects from playing that long with thewith the old rules on the old surfaces.
You know, I really wish thatman, these guys nowadays, these
(32:05):
quarterbacks nowadays, have it really good. I mean I'm envious. I'm not
jealous, but the money they're makingnow and the rules how they can't hit
the quarterback, and then the surfaces, the fields everything is just so much
better that this is a time toplay quarterback. I was thirty years to
be shut too early. Well,everyone in Green Bay is rooting for you.
You're an absolute legend, Packers Hallof Famer, so deservedly so,
(32:29):
and the author of the instant replaygame. Thanks so much, Donmikowski for
joining us here on Tales from twelvesixty five. I appreciate it. Doug,
Hey, look for me, man. I'll be up there all Packers
season, staying in Green Bay.So who knows you might run into me?
I hope so I look forward toit. My thanks. Packers Hall
of Famer Don mckowski one of thegreat Packers legends that shouldn't get overlooked for
(32:49):
his remarkable accomplishments on the field andwas the precursor to the bar being permanently
raised for two generations of Packers fans. If you liked the show, and
please let us know by rating andreviewing us. If you really like the
show, tell a friend. Also, if there's a story that you want
us to tell, you can letme know by finding me on x at
Doug Russell or on Facebook at facebookdot com slash Doug Russell I'm Doug Russell.
(33:10):
Thanks for joining me on Tales fromtwelve sixty five. This has been
Tales from twelve sixty five with yourhost Doug Russell, presented by Nicolay Law,
your local award winning injury lawyers.If you've been injured, get Nicolay,
Wisconsin's winning team of lawyers that willget you back in the game.
(33:30):
Tales from twelve sixty five is apresentation of iHeartRadio podcasts. Here every episode,
on the iHeartRadio app, iTunes,or wherever you listen to podcasts.
This is Tales from twelve sixty five, a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts with presenting
sponsor Nicolay Law, your local awardwinning injury lawyers. If you've been injured,
get Nicolay Wisconsin's winning team of lawyersthat will get you back in the
game. Your host for Tales fromtwelve sixty five is Doug Russell. Every
(00:24):
once in a while, there isan event so significant that it shakes the
foundation of sport in a sliding doorsbutterfly effect kind of way. You know,
the phenomenon where one seemingly unrelated eventalters the space and time continuum.
Instant replay in football first became apart of the NFL's landscape a full decade
before it was first implemented. Innineteen seventy six, the league's director of
(00:47):
officiating, Art McNally wanted to seehow long it would take to review and
overturn a missed call on the field. The impetus a missed call involving OJ
Simpson that replay could have overturned.So McNally went to the televis as network
technicians, and they started experimenting atrivia question. You can win a bar
argument on is what game was thefirst football game ever to use instant replay
(01:08):
as an officiating tool. The answerthe nineteen seventy eight Hall of Fame game
between the Eagles and Dolphins. Thefirst ever game to use instant replay at
all the nineteen sixty three Army Navygame in Philadelphia, about two weeks after
the assassination of President John F.Kennedy. The early results of instant replay
(01:30):
we're not promising. In nineteen sixtythree, the experiment failed about thirty times,
and the one time it did work, announcer Lindsey Nelson had to tell
a very confused audience at home thatno Army did not score again. What
they saw was actually on tape rightafter the play it happened. As we
all know now, technology moves prettyfast. Tell any of the Army or
(01:53):
Navy players that day that within fiftyyears there would be pocket computers with the
power to run every piece of technologyyou can imagine, from opening your garage
door to accessing any piece of informationever published. And they might have had
you fitted for a straight jacket.So it's not surprising that instant replay as
an officiating tool was still more thana decade away, but like its first
(02:16):
day iteration in December of nineteen sixtythree, the early results of its next
natural step was not promising, notwith the Hall of Fame game or any
of the other six preseason contests theNFL used as guinea pigs in nineteen seventy
eight. For one, the technologywas too expensive, which is how all
new technology that we take for grantedtoday is. After all, the first
(02:38):
microwave ovens cost five thousand dollars inthe nineteen forties, more than any car
on the market at the time.Secondly, the system took too long to
use and produced mostly inconclusive results.Instant replay may have been dead for the
time being, but the idea hadsome merit. Fast forward to nineteen eighty
(03:00):
five, and owners were getting antsyafter some questionable on the field calls.
By then, the technology had improved, an instant replay had become ubiquitous,
so why not try again with officiating. The nineteen eighty five preseason saw eight
exhibition games be used as experiments foran improved replay system, and the results
(03:21):
were promising enough for the question tobe asked if it should be used that
season in the playoffs. And whilethat vote narrowly failed, another vote to
implement a system of replay for officialswas passed for the nineteen eighty six season.
Granted, it looked a lot differentthan what football fans had become used
to today. There were no coacheschallenges, for example. All replays were
(03:45):
generated by the review official upstairs orwhen requested by the on field officials.
The only reviewable plays were plays ofpossession, boundary plays and too many men
on the field. The debate wasspirited, and the system was in place
for just one years, just tosee how everyone felt about it. After
it was implemented, As expected,there were some bumps along the way,
(04:06):
but the replay system was approved forone more season in nineteen eighty seven,
and then another for nineteen eighty eight. That brings us to nineteen eighty nine,
the season that in Green Bay gaveus what is still known to this
day in the NFL simply as theinstant replay game. The nineteen eighty nine
(04:32):
season was one of change in GreenBay. Lyndy Infante's first season nineteen eighty
eight had not gone all that well, the Packers finishing just four and twelve.
That record may not have been anideal way for Infante to start his
coaching career, but it did givethe Packers the number two overall pick in
the draft. Unfortunately, that turnedout to be Tony Manderet, who didn't
(04:54):
produce up to his promise, buthe was also the no brainer pick and
consensus number two sali action throughout theNFL. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
Despite the Packers abysmal nineteen eighty eightrecord, there was some actual promise
for the team heading into the season. Sterling Sharp had asserted himself as an
elite receiver after justice rookie season,and Don mckowski was starting to display flashes
(05:17):
of brilliance in his third training camp. The nineteen eighty nine season began with
a loss, then a win,then a loss, been two wins and
then two losses. After the Packerstwenty three twenty overtime win over the Lions
at Milwaukee County Stadium, the hatedChicago Bears came to Green Bay. We
(05:38):
know today that the Packers Bears rivalryhas been pretty one sided over the last
thirty years in Green Bay's favor.Flip that around, and that's how dominant
Chicago was in the nineteen eighties.The fuel was Bears coach Mike did because
pure hatred for all things green andgold, stemming back from his own playing
days under George Allis in the nineteensixties. But this date was November fifth,
(06:00):
nineteen eighty nine. It was anovercast but dry, fifty three degree
day in Green Bay, Wisconsin.The Packers responded by scoring on their first
possession, Mkowski wide open down.Green Bay CBS's Dick Stockton and Dan Fous
had the call that day. Aquick Don Mkowski to Clint Didier twenty four
yard touchdown strike gave Green Bay aseven to nothing lead. After a Kevin
(06:25):
Butler twenty five yard field goal anda scoreless second quarter, the Packers clung
to a seven three lead at halftime. The third quarter was all Chicago.
Another Kevin Butler field goal pulled theBears to within one. They went ahead
on a two yard Brad Mustard touchdownplunge Again, it's Mustard and he's in
for a touchdown. Up until thispoint, the one hundred thirty ninth meeting
(06:46):
between football's two oldest rivals had beenfrankly unremarkable. Then the fourth quarter started,
and all hell broke loose. Asthe final stanza began, Don Mkowski
marched the Packers deep inside Bears territory, trailing thirteen to seven, continuing their
(07:09):
drive that ended the third quarter onthe Bears twenty yard line. Green Bay's
first potential go ahead score was thwartedby a future NFL head coach having maybe
his best ever game. First andten at to twenty, Kowski loses the
ball fumble and we may have ourfirst turnover the game. We do.
The Bears have recovered. Ron Riveramakes the recovery for Chicago and it was
(07:33):
John Roper who slapped it away fromMkowski. That was the first Packers fourth
quarter red zone turnover. It wasn'ttheir last. Kowski in trouble intercepted by
Rivera, and Ron Rivera makes acritical interception. He recovered the fumble moments
(07:55):
ago for the Bears, and nowhe picks one off. The Packers defense
held, however, and got theball back one last time for Mkowski.
The Green Bay drive began on theirown twenty six yard line. Mkowski found
wide receiver Perry Kemp over the middlefor twenty seven yards to the Chicago forty
seven and then another near disaster whenMkowski's pass was batted in the air and
(08:16):
nearly caught by Steve McMichael, whodespised the Packers and ironically ended his career
with them in nineteen ninety four.But that's neither here nor there. That
was scare number one. The GreenBay still had possession, at least then
it was Mkowski to Aubrey Matthews foreleven yards and a first down. Big
tight end ed West was next haulingone in for a fifteen yard gainer,
(08:39):
which brought us to the two minutewarning. Two plays later and it was
third and six from the fifteen yardline. Rolling right, Mikowski found running
back Herman Fonontino sliding up to thenine, but it wasn't enough for the
first down. It was instead fourthand inches, and while Vince Workman's dive
over the top garnered the desperately neededfirst down, the bare turned the Packers
(09:01):
offense in the opposite direction they wereheading in Acowsky loses. The back Packers
were covered second and goal back tothe fourteen, and the past intended for
woodside broken a Cooski and I wasdeflected. Three plays from the Bears seven,
(09:22):
needing seven and losing seven yards.That is that brought up fourth and
goal from the Bears fourteen with fortyone seconds left. The ball game came
down to one final offensive. GreenBay gasp acowscu rose to time stolen.
So I was running to my righttowards a line of scrimmage. I pumped
(09:46):
faked and you could see Mike Singletaryconverts on that pump fake. I remember
watching that ball cross in front ofme, going into the hand of thirty
charge. So there was jubilation inGreen Bay only for a moment for playing
a line of clock around. Ihave the Bear's take over from my perspectives,
(10:11):
Dandy on the Bear's sidelines, lookingright down the line of scrimmage.
The ball was released beyond the fourteenyard line, which made it to my
way of thinking, I'll go forwardpass line official Jim Quick on one of
the myriad of documentaries produced to commemoratethe instant replay game for NFL Network,
jubilation to agony in the blink ofan eye, more more accurately, the
(10:33):
flight of the flag. But justas the Bear's offense was about to take
the field a glimmer of hope.They were reviewing the tape right now,
and you could take a look yourself. A line of scrimmage was the fourteen
yard line, and I don't know, I think we got to take a
look at this because his right footwas on the fifteen when he let it
(10:54):
go. Take it again. Now, remember that fort teen yard line was
the line of scrimmage. The approachesat fifteen. There's a punk fake.
Oh that's a good play, that'sa touchdown. Well, the game will
hinge on this call here and sipwatch his right foot clearly on the fifteen
(11:15):
yard line. Dan Founds making thecase in the CBS television booth with Dick
Stockton. After what seemed like aneternity of cameras pointed and next strained into
a tiny window in the press box, word was relayed down to referee Tom
Duley. Have re over. Pandemoniumensued at venerable lambeau Field. Maybe not
(11:39):
since the ice bowl was there asmuch unwidled joy. Following a touchdown on
the south end zone. After aneight game skid against their most hated rivals,
the Packers had finally slayed their dragon. It was Don mckowski's moment.
It was standing, I mean,you know, and we fought back again
during time after I threw at lastat the first interception down his scoring zone,
(12:03):
and Linda came up to me andsaid, don't worry, keep your
head up that you're still gonna bethe hero of this game. And I
guess he had a vision or something. I asked the guys the truth.
He said that, so God blessasked for the man who caught the game
winner, second year star Sterling Sharp. He saw the big picture. All
right. Now, we're sitting ina driver's seat controlling our own destiny,
and we just got to continue toplay well and come up with some big
(12:24):
plays. But as for instant replaying, it wasn't universally loved at all at
the time, even by many Packers. But maybe this once it was okay
better in linebacker John Anderson and theyreviewed it, and the longer they reviewed
it, the better I started feeling, because I usually pretty good signed that
they're not really sure about it.And I still am not real crazy about
that instant replay, but today I'lltake it. Likewise, for head coach
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Lindy and Fonte, I tell youwhat, if anybody didn't like the instan
to replay, right now, you'recrazy. Urban legend has it that Chicago
coach Mike Ditka immediately flew off thehandle, demanding that the game be treated
as a disputed game, even goingso far as having the Bears pr staff
place an aster risk next to thegame to denote the dispute in the media
guide and in the team record books. The truth of the matter is that
(13:09):
call came later. It certainly didn'thappen right after the game. It's part
of the system. You know,the system's there. You know it's been
there for a couple of years.So you know, there's no use crying
about that. I'm not going tocry about it. Even the next night,
having looked at the film over andover, Difka still wasn't going to
raise a stink about it. Mike, Now that you've seen it again and
again, what do you think.Well, I don't know. Again,
(13:31):
I don't know what. I knowwhat the rule is. Now his arm
cannot be past the ball, pastthe lint of script the ball when he
releases the ball. Now he's releasingthe ball there, it looks like it
is at the fourteen. So it'sreally a So it's a touchdown. So
they won the game anyway, itdoesn't matter. So what are you asking
me for? Well, even well, I'm asking you because I really don't
care. I don't care. Really, I really don't care. If it's
(13:52):
a touchdown, that's what it's goingto stand. I really don't care about
that. Well, it would affectyour opinions on replay and replace that you
should repay, thinks. But becausethe people that are first of all,
the people that are in the boothare unqualified, that's all you can say.
Well that the thing that replay isnot not a good thing, which
I was in favorable for a while, but I well it's hard to say
(14:16):
I wouldn't be in favorable again.Yeah. The interesting thing about this,
getting back to this, is thatthat it looked like there you couldn't prove
conclusively that the ball hadn't gone beyondthe fourteen and so you're not supposed to
change it. But it's conclusive.I forget his name, I'll bet you
you mean you're not going to filea protest on this or anything to the
(14:37):
league? No, why because justto go through the procedure to let it
know, to be known, putit on record. No way, no
way, huh. No, welost the game dry and that's it.
It's cutting dry. A dead situation, seems Mike Dick. It was likely
talked into making it an issue.Nevertheless, the final score in every record
bug for the Packers Bears game ofNovember fifth, nineteen eighty nine now stands
(15:00):
fourteen thirteen Green Bay, with thewin coming up next, the architect of
the instant replay masterpiece that hangs infootball's lube, Packers Hall of Famer Don
mccowski, joins me next, I'mDoug Russell. You're listening to Tales from
twelve sixty five The Instant Replay Game. You're listening to Tales from twelve sixty
(15:26):
five, presented by Nicolay Law,your local award winning injury lawyers. If
you've been injured, get Nicolay,Wisconsin's winning team of lawyers that will get
you back in the game. DougRussell back with you. On November fifth,
nineteen eighty nine, one of themost memorable games in Packer's history was
played, and it spawned a threeword mantra that forever entered our lexicon.
(15:48):
Upon further review, documentaries about whatbecame known as simply the Instant Replay Game
had been produced. The NFL hadto step in and tell the Chicago Bears
that they had to fully acknowledge thelaw without any asterisks in their record books,
and for the Packers as a whole, that win and the nineteen eighty
nine season signaled that after decades offrustration, winning in Green Bay was possible,
(16:11):
even winning over one of the greatteams of that era and a team
that dominated Green Bay in the nineteeneighties. But the instant replay game would
not have been possible if not forthe season long breakthrough of quarterback Don Mkowski.
Mccowski, in his third NFL season, led the league in completions and
yards that year and was the runnerup to Joe Montana in the voting for
NFL MVP, and it was DonMkowski who found Sterling Sharp in the end
(16:33):
zone on fourth and goal with undera minute left to eventually secure the fourteen
thirteen win. Don Mikowski now joinsme here on Tales from twelve sixty five.
Don, I appreciate the time,so much pleasure to be here.
Thanks for asking me. Absolutely.Let's start with the nineteen eighty nine season
as a whole, but because ifyou rewind to nineteen eighty eight, you
(16:53):
guys were four and twelve, butyou had won your last two games.
Some lamented losing out on Troy Aikmanin the draft, which I suppose worked
out for you, But there weresome glimmers that after the last two games
of the season in eighty eight,maybe Green Bay had their quarterback of the
future with the way that you hadplayed. Was there optimism on this team
(17:15):
heading into the nineteen eighty nine seasonand that it could possibly be a breakthrough?
Yeah. Absolutely. You know,nineteen eighty eight was the first year
we had new coach Lindi and Fontein Green Bay, so it basically took
that whole year to learn his verycomplicate, complicated offense. And you know,
by the end of the year,we finally caught what was going on
(17:37):
and we were understanding the concepts andwe really improved. And like you said,
after last two wins of the season, last two games, we felt
really good about ourselves. I knowI certainly did. I was a lot
more comfortable by the end of theyear than I wasn't at the beginning of
the year. So going into campin eighty nine, we were extremely confident
(17:59):
and myself included. Let's go intoBears week. It was week nine,
first week of November. You werealready four and four, already with as
many wins as the entire previous season. What do you remember about getting ready
to go up against Chicago because youhad never beaten them through your first two
seasons in the NFL. They wereonly a couple of years removed from that
(18:21):
great Super Bowl team. Does anythingabout that week of preparation at all stick
out in your mind? I knowit's been over thirty years now. I
don't mean to day I listen,I was, I was a senior in
high school. I remember it verywell, but it was a long time
ago for me too. What doyou remember about that week? No,
No, what I remember, Icertainly do remember it well, was that,
(18:44):
you know, it was the Packersversus the Bears, but I had
a pretty good chip on my shoulderbecause you know, the Chicago Bears quarterback
was Jim Harbaugh at the time,and we both came out the same year
and he was a first round draftpick, and due to injuries in college,
I ended up being a ens rounddraft pick. So I was really
looking forward to going head to headwith him. You know, with both
(19:06):
our teams, and I was reallyexcited about it, and you know,
I just I knew we could wecould definitely hang with them. And you
know the way it turned out,man, we were we handled them pretty
well, even though the score reallydidn't indicate it, but we really did
all games. Well, we'll getto that game in just a second.
I do want to ask you,though, going into that, how intense
(19:26):
was the Bears Packers locker room rivalry, at least in Green Bay. We
know that there was a lot ofhatred between those two teams, but how
intense was it for you guys asyou were kind of turning the page into
the Lindi and Fonte era. Yeah, and I was there two years.
Well, I was there one yearbefore Lindy came, when Forrest Gregg was
the last year, hence coaching eightyseven. Let me tell you you talk
(19:48):
about intensity and Barrass Packers rivalry.Uh, you know, Forrest Gregg having
played offensive line with the bar StarLombardi teams, playing against Mike Dicka,
there was some there, some Idon't want to say hatred, but there
was some intensity that you can sayfrom from my rookie year on Man that
was different, you know than anyother games. So you know, right
(20:11):
from that, right from that firstseason, I knew that this was a
special game. And you know,back then as when you know, the
Packers had you know, we hada the guys were wearing their numbers on
there like a bounty type thing backthen, you know, and which wouldn't
be allowed now. And you know, Jim mcmanhn got slammed by Charlie Martin.
So there was a lot, alot of hatred between two teams.
It was intense. So going intoeighty nine, I knew it wouldn't be
(20:34):
any different, you know. Itwas just different players, some different players
mostly for our team, but alot of the same for those guys that
were the great eighty five Bears werenow you know, three years past that,
and we were looking to take advantageof it. Let's get to the
game itself. You find Clinton didhere for an early touchdown. You take
a seven and nothing lead. Butthis was an intense game, and offensively
(20:56):
the Bears were handled, certainly bythe Green Bay d defense. But on
the flip side, how tough wasthat Bears defense the rest of the way,
because they too put the clamps downon your offense. Oh they did.
I mean they were they were reallygood defense still, you know,
not as good as they weren't eightyfive obviously, but with Richard Dent,
uh you know, Steve McMichael andthey had you know, Mike Singletary,
(21:18):
Sean Gale and the secondary. Theyhad a lot of good players still remaining.
And you know Dent was a problem, you know, and it wasn't
easy, but they played. Theyplayed a lot of tough man to man
that game, I can remember,and you know, we moved the ball
well, we just a lot oftimes we didn't get into the end zone.
Uh. I remember in the fourthquarter. Maybe we can get to
(21:41):
it, but before the big touchdownpass. You know, I did throw
an interception on the drive in thefourth quarter before the touchdown pass. And
then we got the ball back andwe drove the length of the field again
and I got hit and we fumbledthe ball. Luckily we got it back
for a third time and that wasthe winning drive. So it was it
was tough saling, you know,it was tough going, especially in that
(22:03):
fourth quarter. Yeah, no doubtRon Rivera had the game or maybe the
quarter of his career. You stillhave nightmares about Riverboat Roun. Yeah,
it's funny. I ran into himthe Super Bowl party a couple of years
ago and met him for the firsttime off the field, and we were
laughing about it because, yeah,he did have a pick and I don't
know, a fumble recovery or whatever. Yeah, so I didn't I don't
have it nightmares anymore. But itwas fun just to talk to him about
it, especially since we won.Yeah, no doubt, how many times
(22:27):
have you replayed that final drive inyour head because it was kind of a
roller coaster, as you mentioned.I mean, the fourth quarter was certainly
a roller coaster as well, witha couple of turnovers after driving the length
of the field. But that lastdrive, I mean, that's honestly,
that's the stuff of legend. That'swhat documentaries have made. We're doing a
whole Tales from twelve sixty five episodeon it. Yeah, the cool thing
(22:51):
or the lucky thing or the goodthing for me was, like I was
saying that the previous drive that wedrove the all the way down the feet,
I believe I threw an interception insidethe ten yard line to Ron Rivera,
like we were talking about. Butthen we get. We did get
the ball back for a third time, and when we did, we drove
(23:11):
the the length of the field again. Overcame some penalties, overcame some almost
another turnover fumble, and you know, we moved ball the way down inside
the ten. There was a penaltycalled which moved us back to the fourteen,
you know, and it ends upgoing down to a fourth and fourteen
call. But I remember the thingbefore the big drive though, after I
(23:34):
threw that interception, before the beforethe final drive, I came out of
the sideline and I was starting tohear some boobirds and you know, deservingly,
so you know, it's two turnoversin a row and a fourth quarter
and I came out of the sideline. I'll never forget Lindia, and Fante
grabbed me by the face mask,Kenn. He said, you better keep
your head in the game because you'restill going to be the hero today.
(23:56):
And I'm like, you got it. And that's the way it worked out.
You know. He had a hehad a vision and he called it
right. And when we did getthat final drive, we took it the
length of the field, and youknow, in our last play of the
game was that fourth and fourteen bigplay of one of the biggest plays that
I was involved in for sure.Now down Packers Hall of Fame at the
(24:17):
great Don mccowski joining us on theinstant replay game here on Tales from twelve
to sixty five. Let's talk aboutthat final play. You get down inside
the ten, as you mentioned,first and goal, but three plays later
you're pushed back to the fourteen fortyone seconds left on the clock. What
was the call? How did theplay develop from the guy who had the
ball in his hands? Interesting becauseyou know they the Bears in that last
(24:41):
drive, they were blitzing me alot, and they were forcing me to
through sight adjustment hot lead, andyou know, on this fourth down play
a fourth and you know fourteen,we were expecting them to come out in
the full full man blitz as welland play man to man behind it.
So you know, Lyndy Cold ina play which we went four receivers spread
and we had Sterling sharp spread allthe way out to the left, and
(25:03):
we were expecting the blitz. Iwas in the shotgun and we were going
to throw a quick six yards slantroute to Sterling hopefully he could break a
tackle and take it in. Youknow, that would be a great call
against a blitz. Unfortunately, whenI was in the shotgun, when the
ball came back and I took myfirst step back, they dropped. They
were faking the blitz. They droppedback in the zone and a six yards
(25:25):
slant un versus a zone not agood call. So I recognized that immediately
and I just started to improvise rightsoon as I thought was zone. I
was like, oh, this isnot good, so I better buy some
time, see what we could do, and just you know, make something
happen. That's exactly how it turnedout. As I was rolling to my
right, you know, I hadto avoiding a rush out run a guy.
(25:47):
I pumped fake before I threw theoriginal pass, and a lot of
guys converged on that pump fake,and it left just a little window open.
I was able to reload and beforeI got to the line of scrimmage
and real close to the sideline,you know, I fired that ball back
through the middle and Sterling had comeall the way from the opposite side of
the field and did great job andjust find that little window, and it
(26:08):
was It was a heck of aplay. It was just a play that
we practiced a lot, because it'sjust called a scramble rule receivers, I
supposed to just run with the quarterbackthe way he's scrambling, and you know
that that play, you know,not that particular play, but you know,
that type of drill is practiced alot. So we were pretty good
at it, and luckily, youknow, we were able to execute that
(26:30):
kind of last play. Did youfeel like you were close to the line
of scrimmage? I mean, youknow, I knew I was closed.
I mean obviously because I had apretty good field when I stepped up in
the pocket. I always had areally good knack to run lateral right before
the line of scrimmage. And youknow, one thing I was really concerned
about it was stepping out of bounce. But I kind of threw the ball
(26:52):
from in bounce and I floated outof bounce, you know when I released
it, and you know my footwas you know, I didn't know how
close I was, you know,until I saw the replays and when I
got home actually, you know,or he watched the film the next day.
But you know, when you lookat look back at it, I
was a yard behind the line ofstreamers. My foot was on the fifteen,
(27:14):
line of streammers was on the fourteenth. It was it was really pretty
easy calling. I remember Dan Foltswas up in the booth calling that game
and he thought the same thing.You know, he's a experienced quarterback and
he said, I don't think there'san issue here at all. Look at
it. He circled my foot onthe fifteen and he's like, this is
going to be a touchdown, noquestion. And he was right. But
when you saw the flag, canyou put into words what was going through
(27:37):
your mind? Yeah? That wasThat was unbelievable, such a punch in
the gut because I mean, toexecute a play like that on fourth down
and in that pressure situation, andto make something happen on such a great
play, even though it was improvised, and to have someone to call a
(27:59):
flag who was on all the oppositeside of the field and saying that my
hand was over line of scrimmage whenI released a ball. It was actually
a pretty ridiculous call when you lookback at it. But if it wouldn't
have been overturned, it would havebeen a darn shame because, like I
said, executing a play like thatin that pressure situation. That's tough to
(28:19):
do, and especially on a lastplay, last play the game pretty much
for your offer and tells your lastshot. It was, it was a
great play. I'm glad they I'mglad they got it right because I mean
it was exciting. I mean whenthey when they came back with the new
call when it came down to thefield, you know that referee said,
after further review, we have areversal touchdown. Man, that was a
(28:44):
larist. I've ever heard the Packerscrowd for me at the player when I
was there, and it was thefirst time my athletic career. I actually
when I got to the sideline afterwe kicked the extra point and we took
the lead, I was in thesideline that was actually had tears of joy.
Was the first time I was likecrying, like you know before,
I never I never did that before. And that was that was something else
(29:07):
that was that special. Could youhear Tom Dooley's call in the field or
did you just see his arms goup and hear the crowd react. No,
I heard it. I could hearit. I didn't hear the first
part, but I think he caughtlike from the middle of it. You
know, we didn't hear after furtherreview, but he goes, you know,
we have a reversal touchdown, sawhis hands go up and it was
it was something else. Yeah,I always remember that. It was pretty
(29:30):
cool and the thing was cool thatwhile we're waiting during that, I guess
they redeed it for four minutes,Singletary came up to me and said something.
Man, he was talking some kindof smack like, hey, you
know, nice try two bad's goingto be called back or something like that.
And I said something to him,which I probably can't say. I
was kind of podcast. Man.It was good. We were face to
(29:52):
face. Man, it was prettyintense. What do you think of the
stick that the Bears put up thatMike did could put up. I mean,
he was steamed about it for years. He might he will be steamed
about it. And I think he'sin his eighties right now. I think
he might still be mad about it. Oh, if I ever run into
him, he's always mad about it. Man. He's nice to me,
but he's always I don't bring upthe game, but when people do,
Man, he's still I did aninterview about ten years ago when he was
(30:15):
working on Fox or something like that, and it was Fox did this interview
talking about the Packer Barris Robbalry,and it didn't take him long to get
heated up when they started that game. He still bugs him, so yeah,
yeah, he said that that wouldhave been in Chicago. In no
way would that have been a touchdown. He said that was home cooking all
the way. Yeah. I don'tknow that the NFL referee system works quite
(30:37):
like that. Packard's Hall of FavorDon mccowski joining us here for just a
couple more minutes as we talk aboutthe instant replay game. November fifth,
nineteen eighty nine. As an aside, Don I mentioned on the radio that
we were going to be talking today. I got a bunch of messages from
Packers fans and they all wanted meto send to you their best wishes.
Some of your physical struggles with yourankle have been documented on your social media
(31:00):
and obviously everybody wishes you well asa Packer's legend and an asset to the
Packers family and the Packers community toa person. They also wanted me to
ask you how you're doing and howyou're feeling right now. You know I'm
doing I'm doing much better right now. I just had my twenty fifth surgery
in February. I had a totalhip replacement and I had some torn pendants
(31:21):
reattached to my hip, and itwas a it was a really difficult surgery.
But it's been over six months nowand I'm finally, you know,
getting where I can walk, youknow, a little bit more pain free.
But there it was a struggle fora lot of years, a lot
of years just surgery after surgery,nine ankle surgeries, and then I had,
you know, degenerative disc disease inmy lower back. I ended up
(31:44):
having my back sews, and Igot degenerative disk disease and my neck had
two surgeries on my neck. Myneck is seeded. So it was it
was a lot of surgeries, justa lot of you know a lot of
effects from playing that long with thewith the old rules on the old surfaces.
You know, I really wish thatman, these guys nowadays, these
(32:05):
quarterbacks nowadays, have it really good. I mean I'm envious. I'm not
jealous, but the money they're makingnow and the rules how they can't hit
the quarterback, and then the surfaces, the fields everything is just so much
better that this is a time toplay quarterback. I was thirty years to
be shut too early. Well,everyone in Green Bay is rooting for you.
You're an absolute legend, Packers Hallof Famer, so deservedly so,
(32:29):
and the author of the instant replaygame. Thanks so much, Donmikowski for
joining us here on Tales from twelvesixty five. I appreciate it. Doug,
Hey, look for me, man. I'll be up there all Packers
season, staying in Green Bay.So who knows you might run into me?
I hope so I look forward toit. My thanks. Packers Hall
of Famer Don mckowski one of thegreat Packers legends that shouldn't get overlooked for
(32:49):
his remarkable accomplishments on the field andwas the precursor to the bar being permanently
raised for two generations of Packers fans. If you liked the show, and
please let us know by rating andreviewing us. If you really like the
show, tell a friend. Also, if there's a story that you want
us to tell, you can letme know by finding me on x at
Doug Russell or on Facebook at facebookdot com slash Doug Russell I'm Doug Russell.
(33:10):
Thanks for joining me on Tales fromtwelve sixty five. This has been
Tales from twelve sixty five with yourhost Doug Russell, presented by Nicolay Law,
your local award winning injury lawyers.If you've been injured, get Nicolay,
Wisconsin's winning team of lawyers that willget you back in the game.
(33:30):
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