The Sixties - Tales from 1265 Ep. 4

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Episode Transcript

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This is Tales from twelve sixty five, a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts with presenting
sponsor Nicolay Law, your local awardwinning injury lawyers. If you've been injured,
get Nicolay, Wisconsin's winning team oflawyers that will get you back in
the game. Your host for Talesfrom twelve sixty five is Doug Russell.

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The nineteen sixties was a seminal decadein the history of our country. By
the end of the decade, thecountry was mired in war, civil rights
leaders and forward looking politicians had beengunned down in public. The civil rights
push had had its most significant decadesince the Civil War century earlier. We

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experienced Dromania and the British invasion,saw the advent of color television, and
we landed a man on the Moonand in Green Bay, Wisconsin. It
was the decade when prof Ball's moststoried franchise cemented its place forever in history.
But to understand the sixties, wehave to go back to the end

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of the fifties. First, theend of the nineteen fifties some call America's
most idyllic time. Leave it tobeaver, father knows best. Make room
for Daddy the advent of television beingwidely available for the first time, but

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like many aspects of nineteen fifties lifein America, that turned out problematic in
hindsight. The Green Bay Packers endedthe nineteen fifty eight season as a franchise
in turmoil, but also one thatwas about to have a seismic shift.
Was something everyone associated with the GreenBay Packers wanted to know as well.
The five NFL championships between nineteen twentynine and nineteen thirty nine were long gone.

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Team founder Curly Lambeaux, I'd becomea symbol of the distant past.
Winning seasons were a thing of thepast as well. Even the franchise itself
was under attack for having an inadequatefacility at Old City Stadium next to East
High School after Milwaukee County Stadium wascompleted in nineteen fifty three. It was
mounting pressure from the rest of theNFL for the franchise to move there permanently.

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The story of what became lambeau Fieldwill be told on another episode of
Tales from twelve sixty five, butsuffice it to say common sense prevailed and
the new ballpark was built, debutingin time for the nineteen fifty seven season
opener. In terms of wins andlosses, New City Stadium wasn't much help.
Over the first two seasons of whatbecame lambeau Field. The Packers went
a combined four nineteen and one.After coach Lyle Blackburn was fired while on

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a scouting trip in Alabama shortly afterthe nineteen fifty seventh season ended, the
Packers elevated popular backfield coach Race ScooterMcLean to the top spot. Still despite
no fewer than eight future Hall ofFamers on its roster, McLean's acadasical approach
to discipline showed on the field,and after a franchise worst one ten and
one season, McLean resigned. Thatpaved the way for one of the greatest

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eras in all of sports. Innineteen fifty four, the New York Giants
hired a Brooklyn native and Fordham Universitygraduate who was coming off a first place
season as the lead offensive coach atArmy. Forty one year old Vincent Thomas

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Lombardi came to the NFL with areputation for perseverance. He needed it after
a series of incidents at Army decimatedthe Cadet's roster, but in his final
season, the boys from West Pointstill went seven to one and one.
Lombardi became in effect the Giants offensivecoordinator. His defensive counterpart combined to give
the Giants unquestionably the best duo inthe NFL's history, that defensive coordinator Tom

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Landry. Unsurprisingly, with Lombardi runningthe defense and Landry running the defense,
the Giants went to a pair ofNFL Championship games, winning one of them
and losing another to the Baltimore Coltsin overtime and what has been dubbed the
greatest game of all times down footballworld. With the Packers in disarray,

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they turned to Lombardi, who demandedand received total control over the football operations.
Offensive lineman Bob Scronsky saw it.It may change his right away,
it may change his administratively, inhis staff and in the building. The
whole point is is he was incontrol of everything, everything Running back Donnie
Anderson. What of Lombardi's first agendaitems at the onset of training camp was

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to set an immediate tone, holdinga public banquet with his entire roster,
all Packers players wearing suits and ties, all freshly groomed Lombardi telling the crowd,
this is your team, it belongsto the city of Green Bay,
that it was off to work andthe business of churning the Packers around.
I'd like to welcome law, ofcourse, and tell you how proud we

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ought to have you a part ofthe Packers, just as you should be
proud to be to be here,to be a part of this team.
It didn't take long for Lombardi tomake his mark. Veteran wide receiver Max
McGee. He called me over andkind of laughingly said, he says,
you know, I didn't know ifanybody's going to leave there or not.
I said, we could have hadno football players, but I said,
coach, don't worry. You justgrabbed them. You've got everyone where you

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want them. I didn't come inand have a meeting with the players and
saying myself, I want to wantthem around was gonna be I wonder how
they're gonna accept me. That wasn'twhat I said to myself. They're gonna
have to accept me. I'm notworried about them or I'm worried about Vince
Lombardi's around. The first meeting wehad with coach Lombardi was a kind of
a sharp tone from him. Hestarts out by saying, I've never been

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a loser, and I'm not aboutto start now. Hall of Fame lineman
Jerry Kramer. The Packers first gameunder the man who would become a legend
was September twenty seventh, nineteen fiftynine, a new City Stadium in green
Bay against the hated Chicago Bears.Packers are looking to new coach Vince Lombardi
to lead them up the leag ladderthis year. The Packers are forced to

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punt. Max McGee piles a beautyto Richie Pettybone on the bear fifteen.
Pettybone gets back to the twenty fourbefore a jarring tackle frees the fake skin.
Jim Ringo alertly recovers for the Packerson the twenty six. Waal Harnang
hits for six yards to the twenty. Jim Taylor tears up the turf of
the five yard carried to the fifteen. From the five yard line, Taylor

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barrels in the paydirt as green Bayjumps into a seven to sixth league.
The hard charging Packer forward wall crashesin on Ed Brown as Dave Hanner nails
Brown for two points. The Packerslook like real troublemakers in nineteen fifty nine
as they upset the Bears nine tosix. Vince Lombardi makes his coaching debut
a rousing success, and his playerscarry him off the field in a fitting

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tribue. One game in and thePackers had equaled their total win output from
the year earlier. The winds ofchange were blowing in Titletown. In nineteen
sixty a gallon of gas costs thirtyone cents, a median home cost less

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than twelve thousand dollars. Senator JohnF. Kennedy narrowly defeated Vice President Richard
Nixon for the White House, andthe green Bay Packers were learning to become
champions. Despite losing their opener tothe Bears, Green Bay would win eight
of their next eleven and found themselvesin the NFL Championship Game. Well,
we're gonna have a fullhouse here atFranklin Field this afternoon for the big game

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between the Western Conference winners the GreenBay Packers and the Eastern winners of Philadelphia
Eagles. A sellout crowd over sixtyseven thousand Franklin field here a permanent grandstand
holes about sixty one thousand. Theyhave added approximately seven thousand seats around the
back and every seat will be takingball today's game. That's will be the

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largest crowd ever to see a Prochampionship game. It was a freezing day
after Christmas in Philadelphia, and itwas a game that went right down to
the wire. Second down of tenfor Green Bay. They have the ball
on the eagle thirty yard line.Twenty five seconds left. Backers move back
into their huddle. Tom Brookshire,Bobby Freeman, Don Burrows, and Jimmy

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Carr the deepman in that eagle defensivebackfield backers out of the huddle again.
Second downtown again. Star takes theball and drops back up pass. He
looks, He throws the passes completeto Tonapple at the twenty two yard line.
He is hidden down immediately by amactually bad backers out trying lining up,
trying to get another player on theway. Black continues to run ten

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seconds. Backers have time maybe forone more play. Chart takes the ball
and drops back to pass. Helooks, He drives one hits complete down
of the good game. The basiswas complete to Jimmy good. We drove

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down inside if the line and atthe Eagles jumping up and down a half
a bunch. The World champions ifwith the Green Bay Packers seventeen to thirteen.
After the final gun, Lombardi toldhis team that they would never lose
another championship game. He wasn't wrong. Nineteen sixty one began with the Dawn

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of Camelot in the White House,Alan Shepard in Space, West Side Story
on the Silver Screen, and theGreen Bay Packers beginning a dynasty that will
forever cement their legacy. After losinga close seventeen to thirteen decision to the
Lions on opening Day, the Lombardilad Packers went on a rampage, blowing
out the likes of the four nineErs, Bears, Colts, Browns,

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and Vikings by an average score ofthirty five to nine. The Packers did
have a couple of rematch hiccups atSan Francisco in Baltimore, but they were
ready for their NFL Championship matchup againstLombardi's old team, the New York Giants.
On New Year's Eve. In thebackfield, bart Star, who has
come into his arm as one ofthe fine quarterbacks in football from Alabama,

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part sixth year that left half backmister do Everything Horning of Notre Dame.
This is falls fifth year the naskedthe Football League, including scorer this year
and last year at fullback the manwho played only Jimmy Brown of Freeland as
a leading ground gainer, Jim Taylorof Louisiana State. Jim is playing his
fourth year in the league and thepincker back from Colorado boy Dowler a six

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five spec This is his third year. The defensive lineups will give you as
the game goes along that Jim iswhat I expect to be in the offensive
lineups for this championship game. Beforethis capacity crowd in the town, the
crowning calls itself right arrow by virtueof the banners all over Green Bay as
Title down Us, a name thatwould not only stick, but one that

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would be proven over and over again. On this frigid day pound off the
second New Year's even Green Bay,Wisconsin is gonna be something no more time
him. There's the game with thefrital score. The Green Bay Packer is
thirty seven. The New York nothingnot to be deterred. In nineteen sixty

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two, the Packers did it again. It'll goes back, looks down field,
fires out to the right side,the fastest complete to Rawson. He's
down inside the ten yard line andpushed out of arms and there's a gun
sounding the end of this football game. Joe Walsen made a heroic attempt after
he got that pass to go infor a touchdown. He was fourth bounds

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it about the four yard line andjointly thereafter the gun sounded, ending the
football game. The final score theGreen Bay Packers sixteen. The New York
Giant seven. Will be back ina moment with a final wrap up of
today's game. Three straight years inthe NFL Championship Game with back to back
wins, the Green Bay Packers werethe talk of the sports world and everyone

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wanted to know lombardi secrets. Everyfootball team eventually arrives at a lead play,
a number one play, a BretonButter play. It is the play
that the team knows it must makego and the one at his opponents no,
they must stop continued success with it. Of course, makes a number
one play because from that success stemsyour own team's confidence and behind that is

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the basic truth that it expresses thecoach as a coach and the players as
a team, and they feel completesatisfaction when they execute it successfully. My
number one play is the power sweep. But even with all of the winning,
did Lombardi let up on his playersat all or to even a leaders
like bart Starr? Was he stillthe same strict disciplinarian like he always was

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from day one? Oh? Yes, absolutely, because he'd jumped right down
your throat. He he didn't doit in a brutal, nasty wall.
I don't mean it like that.He was just tough. That was him,
And so when we understood that,we accepted it for what he was
doing. We weren't. I wasnever upset with him being overly harsh or
tough like that. That wasn't whathis objective was. It was simply to

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make the point. Here was justhis technique in doing bart Starr interviewed by
HBO Sports for their documentary on Lombardi. There was only one way in Green
Bay, the Lombardi Way. Hallof Famer Paul Horning on the Pro Player's
Business Network. Nobody had a voicein that organization that was higher than Vince

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Lombardi. Where As the Packers wereconcerned, and we found out right way
what that meant. You know,as players, you know, he established
a party immediately, and we hadto understand that, you know, we
were going to do it his way, as simple as that. And that's
and I think really when you thinkof great coaches in college and in the

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pros, if they're very successful,that's the way they think. He demands
every ounce of your effort, onehundred and fifty percent of your desire,
your strength, everything you have.Hall of Fame Lyman Jerry Kramer, who
would wind up writing a pair ofbooks about the Lombardi era Packers, Instant
Replay in nineteen sixty eight and DistantReplay in nineteen eighty five. The Packers

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were riding high, but before thenineteen sixty three season could even begin,
they suffered their first loss when Horningwas suspended for betting on football. You
know, I've always been a spender. I mean, everybody knows I was,
even in those days. You know, Horning maintained for the rest of
his life that he never bet laarge amounts, and he also never bet
against the Packers, only for themto win. I was making a lot

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of money, and I was makingmoney betting. That's the worst thing can
happen to you. Because Commissioner PeteRoselle sat him and Detroit Lions star Alex
Carris indefinitely for betting on football.The suspensions didn't last long, however,
both were reinstated after one season.Both also eventually wound up in the Pro
Football Hall of Fame. As forthe nineteen sixty three season itself, the

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year was one of incredible highs,as evidenced by green Bay's eleven two on
one record, but both losses cameat the hands of the Bears, Chicago
edging the Packers by just a halfgame to win the Western Division. In
nineteen sixty four, green Bay hadfor them a slump oh and eight five
and one season isn't terrible. Infact, it was good for second place

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in the West and also landed themin the Playoff Bowl for the second straight
year. The Playoff Bowl was acharity benefit construct of the nineteen sixties,
was also disbanded after the AFL NFLmerger. It was also quite pejoratively called
the Toilet Bowl by Packers coach VinceLombardi, who didn't put much stock in
green Bay's loss to the Saint LouisCardinals that year twenty four to seventeen.

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Lombardi told his team afterwards that theywould never again except second place as long
as he was their coach. TheAmerican Football League began operations in nineteen sixty
as a direct competitor to the alreadyestablished NFL. Now, there had been

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other iterations of NAFL in pro football'sformative years, but nothing like this league.
AFL owners were comprised primarily of businessmenwho were denied entry into the NFL
for various reasons. Once Heisman Trophywinner Billy Cannon spurned the NFL's Los Angeles
Rams, who picked him number oneoverall in nineteen sixty, but the AFL

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expansion Houston Oilers, the AFL feltit could compete, and while stadium attendance
was still relatively low, the AFL'slucrative television contract with ABC buoyed the entire
operation. By nineteen sixty five,with a solid footing in major American cities
like Houston, San Diego, NewYork, Kansas City, Denver, and

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Boston, the AFL was beginning tobe a real problem for the NFL.
The two leagues were at war withfuture Hall of famers choosing sides, gayl
says picking the NFL's Chicago Bears overthe AFL's Kansas City Chiefs, for example,
while Joe Namath went with the AFLsNew York Jets over the NFL's Saint
Louis Cardinals. In green Bay,the Packers had their own issues, facing

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two straight years of not having beento the NFL Championship Game. The expectations
were certainly there, the talent wasthere, but the road to step one
of an unprecedented run of NFL immortalitywas a rocky one. In the NFL's
Western Division, both the Packers andColts ended the nineteen six five season with
ten three and one records. Interestingly, the rules dictated that head to head

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results were not a tiebreaker. GreenBay defeating Baltimore in both of their meetings
that season. A Week fourteen tiethe last week of the regular season meant
that Green Bay in Baltimore would haveto play its tiebreaker. The game began
with its own challenge. Bart Starrwas injured on the Packers first play and
was unable to return for the Colts, they had to use running back Tim

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Mattie at quarterback. With Johnny Unitisand backup Gary Quozo both injured. With
just under two minutes left in regulation, Don Chandler's twenty two yard field goal
attempt appeared to sail wide right.Chandler's own reaction set as much that he
missed a chip shot field goal atan important time, but the officials signaled

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it was good, explaining that theball had sailed over the upright. Replays
were inconclusive but appeared to show otherwise. The Colts understandably were furious, but
there was no replay in nineteen sixtyfive. Whatever the call was stood regulation
time has run out with a scoreof ten to ten. The Green Bay

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Packers won the flip of the gunand they have elected to receive at the
north end of the field to putthe ball in play for sudden death overtime.
In the extra frame, Baltimore hadtheir chances and Lou Michaels will attempt
a forty seven yard field goal theangles of the left. Bob Boyd will
hold, there's the snap. Theball is voted. If dead the air,

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it's going to be shared and wideto the right. It is no
good, But in the end itwas the Packers for a no doubt or
this time Bill Curry gets over theball of center Bart starwell neel at the
twenty five yard line and it's allup to Bart Star and Don Chandler.
Now Star stretches out the hand.There's the snap, the boot. The
ball is in the air. Itis got the Green Bay Packers of the

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West, by hooker, by crook. The Packers had once again reached the
NFL Championship Game against the Eastern Divisionchampion Cleveland Browns. Screen Bay Packers shooting
for their sixth victory in a worldchampionship game to add to their eight titles.

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One thus far three of the titlesone before the divisional playoff system was
installed. Before the game at lambeauField, some five inches of snow fell
on Green Bay, delaying fans,stadium workers, the teams, and even
radio announcer Blaine Walsh. We havea strange set of weather conditions here at
Green Bay this afternoon. Their vaporcoming from the stands, and when the

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players gather in a huddle, itlooks like a cloud rising. Every time
the players move into a huddle,cloud of vapor rises into the air.
Both sides. A defensive huddle,the offensive huddle, and every time there's
a big roar from the crowd infront of us, we get another big
crowd of vapor that rises right infront of the broadcast booth and going the
other way. That's right, it'shot air going the other way. We've

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got some snow coming down, morelike snow pellets, almost freezing rain falling
a little bit more gently than that. In the third quarter, the Packers
pulled away thanks the ball hands offto Honting Sweep on the left side.
He's got the block, he's insidethe ten. He's up to five cuts
in the hands off. With thetouchdown, it's third down in the yard
to go. The handoff goes toTommy Moore and he cracks across the thirty

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five yard line four seconds remaining.I believe the Packers made a first down
on the last play. The gameis over the Green Bay Packers at the
National Football League. Kevin for nineteensixty five and the team of Destiny has
come through for coach Bench Lombardy.This probably is greatest job of coaching.
Coach. This is the third championshipfor the Packers since you have been the

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head cluffs. Correct, where wouldyou fit this in in your feelings right
now on the I think I thinkI mentioned that too in a week.
I thought this team had more charactersthan any football team I've coached, and
I think that's a great compliment withthem. May I ask you one technical
question from a broadcasters point of view? With the field conditions as everyone saw
them, how close could you stickto your plan of the game. We

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stuck to the game plan the fieldconditions in our fathers anymore, were we
played the play? We played thegame. Were you in any way amazed
at the condition of the field inview of the horrible whether I saw in
the condition, I thought the fieldwas excellent underneath the circumstances. Really,
the title had returned to Titletown asa new era of football was about to
begin. Tired of warring over players, the NFL approached the AFL, led

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by Kansas City Chiefs owner Lamar Hunt, to talk merger. Competition between the
AFL teams and the NFL teams hadgotten to the point where we weren't sure
that all the teams would survive.Longtime NFL executive Joe Brown on June eighth,
nineteen sixty six, after two monthsof secret negotiations, the two leagues

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announced that they would become one fouryears down the road. In the meantime,
the two leagues would mostly operate separately, but with two major exceptions.
Number one, they would hold acommon draft, and number two, they
would hold an end of season championshipgame. In nineteen sixty six, the
Packers were still on top of thefootball world, but some were beginning to

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wonder for how long. There wasn'tany immediate slippage, as a twelve and
two season landed Green Bay in theNFL Championship Game once again. The game
pitted Vince Lombardi against his old NewYork Giants co worker Tom Landry. In
the third quarter of a one pointgame, the Packers marched down the Cotton
Bowl field, are counting off.Sake bakes, the handoff goes back,

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the throw pumps one fires up themiddle of passions complete dew Boy Dollar all
the touchdown for the Green Bay Packers, and Dollar was belted hard in the
end zone after the touchdown had Ben'sguard. In the fourth quarter, the
two teams would trade touchdown, butDallas had one last gasp and it is

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fourth down and goal, A goalfrom the two yard line for the Dallas
Cowboys, and the clock is runningwith fifty two seconds remaining, and Bettis
Norman made a great catch there,flat on the ground on his summer.
All right, if the Cowboys goin here and kick the extra point,

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we're going into overtime. They've gotone play to travel two yards. Meredith
takes the ball, rolls out tothe right. He's gonna be nailed.
He got it's intercepted in the endzone by domb Brow. He brought in.
Dave Robinson nailed Don Meredith as heattempted to throw that pass. It
was intercepted in the end zone byTom Brown. In years past, the

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Packers season would have been over,but there were still one more game to
play, a game that would becomeknown as the Super Bowl. It was
also a game that Vince Lombardi desperatelywanted to win. Thousands of people under
stands and millions of people on televisionand everyone looking in all its speculations to
see what kind of a came theGreen Bay Packers are going to play today.

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I want you to be proud ofa profession. That's a great profession.
You'd be proud of this game andyou can do a great deal for
football today, great deal for allthe players in the league and everything else.
Go out there and play this ballgame like I know you can play.
The Packers dominated, winning in ablowout over the AFL's Kansas City Chiefs
thirty five to chen. How doyou con turn on the NFL with the
AFL. I have no nothing tosay about hold the ball up this way,

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better effort beginning. How many gameballs have you got? I would
say about it about the present hencethe the Kansas City kids have bad you
and anyway, so anything that didn'texpect I don't players. A question was

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that they show anything different? Answer, No, it have sprint out the
first half. I don't thie,so we just had. I don't believe
so. I think we were asaggressive in the first half as we might
have been. A key point theball game. That was a big play
by Willie, would you mean ofcourse yes, it took us right down

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and of course we went in thescore. Whether it was the key,
I don't know what chiep players arereally. For Vince Lombardi, it was
eight seasons as Packers coach, fourNFL championships. He still had the best
team in football, but they werebeginning to show their age. Was there
another run left? Was there anymore magic to be had? The nineteen
sixty seven regular season began well.With two games left to play, the

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Packers had already wrapped up the CentralDivision at nine two and one, but
green Bay lost its final two gamesat Los Angeles and then to Pittsburgh at
home. The Western Conference title wasdecided at Milwaukee County Stadium. Stared checks
the defense moving, the handoff goesto Travis Williams light over on the right
side, goes be outside the twentyfive and twenty eight. He's gonna go

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ahead. Tavis Mugan side it overthe right tackles, but Williams ran for
eighty eight yards and two scores ingreen Bay's definitive twenty eight to seven win
over the La Rams. The nextgame the Packers played in is so legendary
that it got a name that willlive forever and is one of the most
memorable games in NFL history. TheIce Bowl also gets its standalone Tales from

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twelve sixty five episode, but itwill always be one of the most integral
elements of the story of the nineteensixties Lombardi era Packers seventeen the fourteen Cowboys
out in front, Packers trying forthe go ahead score. Star begins the
count, takes the stamp. Hehad the quarterback run. Like I said,

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the Ice Bowl is a show oneto itself. No one knew exactly
how historical that game would become inthe history of Vince Lombardi until about a
month later, but we'll get tothat. After beating the Cowboys, it
was on to Miami for Super BowlToo against the Oakland Raiders. But something
was off. Coach had mentioned onWednesday, prior to the Sunday Super Bowl

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that this might be our last timetogether. And we looked at one another,
and what is that about? Ithink? I looked at Barton,
I said, what do you thinkthat means? I don't know. Jerry's
gonna only mean one thing, andso we kind of thought that maybe it
meant that he was going to retireHall of Famer Jerry Kramer. But on
Sunday, there was no time fordistractions. There was a Super Bowl to

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be one far. Star at quarterbackdropped straight back. He's looking for someone
to throw the eleven minutes of fifteenseconds left to play in the game.
I let Nick off wide to theride inside him in the slat position is

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Bill Miller to split in a MinicaBarton and seven goes back to the throne.
Here's this bitch, I hope thiswas a hobbit. Let's become a

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semihabit. Congratulationship a second year ina row. Wonderful performance by Flying Football
Club. I had a great coach. Hey, I'm real pleased with everything,
and I'm very very very grateful,really, Greave. I think I
got a great bunch of boys,and they sent me deserve what they got.
The Packers had done the unthinkable andthe unprecedented. Under Vince Lombardi,

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Green Bay had won three straight NFLtitles and in nine years five overall titles.
The Packers were a dynasty. Theirplayers were household names all over the
country. The Hall of Fame wouldbe stocked with players from Titletown. Their
names the thing of legend, starNiske, Horning, Creamer, Adderley,
Greg Davis, Robinson, Taylor.The list goes on and on. But

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on February first, nineteen sixty eight, some three weeks after their crowning achievement,
and just over one month removed fromone of the most famous games in
NFL history. It all came toan end. Vince Lombardi had achieved what
no other coach had ever done.But he was also a perfectionist, a

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type, a NonStop pursuer of excellence, and he was tired the time and
effort necessary and required to coach asuccessful professional football team operation, particularly with
the additional games. The season beginsas early as July of the tenth and
ends as late as January the fourteenth. This is a seven day week,

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also includes many many evenings of work, plus many months of preparation before July,
before the players arrived. And three, Gentleman, because of the nature
of the business, and because ofthe growth of the business and the corporate
structure of the packers, I believeit is impractical for me to try to
do both jobs, and I feelI must relink with one of them.

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Fortunately, I have had a verycapable and a very long assystem. It
has been with me since the beginningin green Bay. I am positive.
But under his leadership and under hisdirection, green Bay football will continue to
be excellent. Green Bay football willcontinue to grow, and green Bay football

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will be everything you wanted to begentlemen. Let me introduce to you now
the new head coach of the GreenBay Packers. As the full Benster Banston,
knew his task was a tall one. Members of the Board of Directors,
I'd like to thank vis on theBoard of Directors for the confidence they
have shown in me in giving methis assignment. I realize that I will

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be succeeding a remarkable man. I'llbe coaching a team of a record which
is probably unequaled in the history ofprofessional football. I hope that was the
help of this fine coaching staff andour fine group of football players that week

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can continue with the winning traditions ofthe Packers. Thank you very much,
gentleman. Nineteen sixty eight did notgo as hoped. The three time defending
NFL champion Packers slumped to six sevenand one, and while the losses don't
go on Lombardi the coach, Lombardi, the GM had to wear it.
It was clear he missed the sidelines, but it was also clear he couldn't

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shove his longtime loyal assistant out ofthe way to return. Lombardi also wanted
an ownership stake, which, becauseof the Packers unique structure, was impossible
in Green Bay, but as theteam's general manager, Lombardi essentially granted himself
permission to seek out what he wanteddespite being under contract. He found what
he was looking for in Washington,where he would become the head coach,

(33:05):
general manager, and part owner ofthe Redskins. On February eighth, nineteen
sixty nine, Packers President Dominico Lennishakannounced what many Packers fans had feared this
evening at my Board of Directors meeting, I first asked that the communication from
Vince Lombardi represented to the board.I do not believe it is any secret

(33:29):
as to why is this director's meetingwas called. The matter we are going
to discuss is the request of misterLombardi, as general manager and general manager
of the Green Bay Packers, thatwe release him from his existing contract.
This is, for the Green BayPackers and for mister Lombardi, a very

(33:52):
grave matter and one which the ExecutiveCommittee felt merited careful consideration. In consequence,
we have mister Lombardi's requests, discussit at length and have come to
a conclusion. Perhaps the most dominantmotivation in our coming to this conclusion was

(34:12):
a fact that mister Lombardi had anopportunity to purchase from the Washington Redskins a
substantial block of stock stock and afootball corporation is difficult to obtain, and
in all probability, this would bethe chance of a lifetime for mister Lombardi.
Mister Lombardi has served us well farand above the call of duty,

(34:35):
and we felt it would be adog in a major attitude if we were
to stand in his way of obtaininga very profitable, substantial interest in this
Washington ball club. That there wouldn'tbe anything in the world that we would
not have done if it were possibleto continue to retain their services. On
the other hand, you cannot standin the way of a man, and

(34:59):
like I say it stated in thatstatement, and being a dog in a
major and after a very thorough andhonest discussion on this matter, which was
expressed by anybody who wanted to expressthemselves, and there were many, I
am happy to report to you thatwith regret, this resolution was unanimously adopted

(35:22):
and mister Lombardi obtained his release andthe Green Bay Packers this evening, the
Lombardi era was over almost exactly tenyears to the day that it began.
It was an unprecedented run that wasnow history. The nineteen sixty nine Packers
under Phil Bengston went eight and six. After his third mediocre season in nineteen

(35:43):
seventy, he resigned. Meanwhile,Vince Lombardi went seven five and two in
nineteen sixty nine in Washington and washoping to turn the Redskins around like he
turned the Packers around, but itwasn't meant to be. The legendary coach
had complained of stomach issues as farback as nineteen sixty seven that he had

(36:07):
resisted going to the doctor. Asthe pain worsened in Washington, he finally
relented, but it was too late. In June of nineteen seventy, doctors
at Georgetown University Hospital found an anaplasticcarcinoma of the rectum, a fast moving,
aggressive form of colon cancer. Onemonth later, surgery revealed the cancer

(36:28):
had spread and was both inoperable andterminal. Five weeks later, on September
third, nineteen seventy, Vince Lombardidied. His legacy lives on, though,
and will for as long as footballis played. As legacy cemented in
Green Bay in the nineteen sixties comingup. The Packers official team historian,

(36:52):
Cliff Crystal joins me. I'm DougRussell, and you're listening to tales from
twelve sixty five the Sixties. You'relistening to Tales from twelve sixty five,
presented by Nicolay Law, your localaward winning injury lawyers. If you've been
injured, get Nicolay, Wisconsin's winningteam of lawyers that will get you back

(37:16):
in the game. Doug Russell backwith you, and we are joined by
the illustrious official historian of the GreenBay Packers and the author of the four
volume set The Greatest Story in Sportsand at Cliff Crystal. I'm so thankful
that we're able to carve out sometime for us here on Tales from twelve
sixty five. My pleasure. Sothe title of this is the Sixties,

(37:36):
which really kind of began before thesixties. Vince Lombardi hired in nineteen fifty
nine. But how do we getto that point because Curly Lamba leaves in
nineteen fifty and then through Lyle Blackbourneand Scooter McLean, this is just kind
of a franchise that's maybe wandering outin the wilderness just a little bit.

(37:58):
So I guess I want to startwith the into the curly Lambeau era because
I think I think it's kind ofinformative of how the Packers, how this
organization got to Lombardi in the firstplace. Yeah, wandering will wandering in
the wilderness would put it be puttingit kindly, you know, Starting with
the last few years of Lambeau inthe late forties, when the Packers were

(38:20):
in dire financial shape and on theverge of almost having to fold up the
tent. They had suffered through abouta decade of losing and the bottom fell
out in nineteen fifty eight with ScooterMcLean when they were one ten and one.
Ron Zanny was a kind of amad scientist in terms of football strategy,

(38:46):
but weird guy, a lot offunny quirks that set well with his
players, although he was somewhat popularand then lyle bur Iburn was a good
football man, but his relationship withhis players wasn't very good, but at
least they were competitive at times.With Scooter, they were one ten and

(39:07):
one and almost blew the the onewin after building a big lead over the
Eagles, so things were desperate whenthey went searching for a new coach after
the fifty eighth season, and youknow, they had just built the stadium
in fifty seven, which everybody thoughtwould be the savior of the franchise.

(39:30):
But that losing couldn't have continued thatmuch longer. I don't believe or the
Packers would have again been at riskof folding. How did they get to
that point? Because I think JackFinishi's story is informative because of the players
that he was able to scout andthen ultimately drafted. You talk about the
last year of the Blackburn era andthen Scooter McLean one ten and one,

(39:53):
but there were what eight Hall offamers on that one ten and one team?
Oh young, I mean first orsecond year players. That was part
of it. Actually. You know, Jack Vanisi was maybe the first play
guy in the NFL to form whatwe think of today as a personnel department,

(40:20):
and it served as the manager ofit. Basically, he wasn't really
a scout. You know, whenI was growing up in the business,
especially when I was in Milwaukee atthe Journal in Journal Sentinel, the old
guys there talked about those were reallyLiz Blackburn stand I mean, Jack Vanisi
never made a draft pick until nineteenfifty eight second phase after Scooter was fired.

(40:43):
So it wasn't just Jack Vanisi.Lyle Blackburn was a who was a
legendary high school football coach in Milwaukee, coach that Marquette new football. Fact,
Lombardi hired him back as a scoutwhen he got the job, and
they had they had accumulated a lotof talent, but they weren't winning.

(41:07):
And a big part of it whatScooter was that he was just too nice
a guy. I mean, therewas absolutely no discipline, and you know,
in the case of a lot ofthose young players, they just probably
weren't ready. You look at thenwhere they went for their next head coach,

(41:29):
and you look at what the NewYork Giants were able to do.
Maybe the I don't think there's anyquestion the two most accomplished coordinators on offense
and on defense. Your offensive coordinatorVince Lombardi. Your defensive coordinator, the
great Tom Landry. But the Packerswent there to find Vince Lombardi. How
did that process go from from yourresearch? The search took six weeks.

(41:54):
I mean, Scooter was gone rightafter the final game in December. They
hire Lombardi until late January, andactually offered the job the forest Evashevsky prior
to Lombardi, and he turned themdown. Abashevsky was successful coach in Iowa,
and they had gotten some tips aboutLombardi, I think from Burt Bell,

(42:15):
Paul Brown, George Hallis Phansia knewthem, knew him. There'd be
two Italians. I'm sure they occasionallyhung out at league meetings, and actually,
I mean there were no coordinators atthat time. The word hadn't even
become part of the pro football lexicon. But Lombardi did run the Giants offense

(42:38):
as their offensive backfield coach, andLandry did the same pretty much on defense.
And the Mars kept trying to convinceDominico and Echeck, the president who
conducted the search, to take aclose look at Landry, and I think
they had gotten just enough information thatthey knew who he knew to go after

(43:00):
Lombardi. It was a thorough search, which unlike when they hired the previous
three coaches run Zanni, Blackburn andMcLean, that was kind of all slap
dash hires. They did take theirtime, interviewed a lot of people,

(43:21):
and you know, they hired ahead coach they would never been, so
Lombardi would never have been a headcoach anywhere but except at the high school
level. From my understanding, itwas Jack Vanisi who encouraged both parties,
both the Packers and Lombardi. Lombardito demand full control and the Packers board
of directors to give Lombardi full controlof the football operations of the Packers.

(43:46):
Is that correct? Yeah? Ithink Jack Vanisi knew Lombardi and probably helped
convince him to come to Green Bayonce the job was offered. But again,
first of all, Jack Vanisi appliedfor the general manager job, so
he was in the running, althoughthey didn't I don't believe gave him serious
consideration, and they offered the jobdivorced Evashevsky a week before Lombardi was hired,

(44:12):
so it wasn't like they you know, one person was responsible for that
hire. In fact, Jack Kepler, who was a good friend, very
close friend of Domenico in Echeck,had lunch with him every day at the
Elks coming downtown green Bay and alsogood friend or golfing buddy at Lombardies,

(44:37):
told me that the guy that hebelieves really swayed them was Bert bell was
probably the greatest friend ever to thePackers commission at the commissioner of the NFL,
and the guy that looked looked afterhim during the lean forties when other
owners wanted to get rid of thePackers wanted to get rid of Green Bay

(44:57):
as a franchise. And he alwaystold me there was a letter from Burt
Bellum from what he knew from allin check. He was the guy that
really convinced the Packers. This wastheir guy. So in nineteen sixty,
the Packers get to Now we've talkedabout Jack Vanisia a couple of times,
but in nineteen sixty he, atthe age of thirty three, suddenly dies

(45:20):
of a heart attack. What didthat do to the Packers? I know
they had a championship they got tothe championship game in nineteen to sixty,
and we'll get to that in amoment, But what did that do to
Lombardi? What did that do tothe franchise? Well, Lombardi City lost
a great friend. And you know, I've been told that when he got
to town here, he had whatthey called people in the town called the
Italian mafia. It was basically Lombardi, Jack Vanisi, Tony Canadeo, maybe

(45:47):
his brother Savvy, and Paul Mazzoliniruined a gas station, was a super
fan, and those were the peoplethat Lombardi most trusted, kind of his
confidence at the beginning. Um,you know, Dick Bergen Islands, an
executive committee member along with Tony Canadadeobecame part of that. But um so

(46:08):
Lombardi truly did lose a great friend. But they had really owned him and
Venisi had only had conducted one drafttogether, the one the Tom Moore draft
in nineteen sixty. Moore was agood pick. You know, we never
maybe reached his full potential because theyplayed behind Paul Horney. But um things

(46:31):
really didn't change in the personnel department. You know, the next year they
drafted her Batterie number one, andthat was a Hall of fame that was
gonna say. He turned out prettywell. Yeah, and then they got
Dave Robinson a couple of years later. Yeah, like all teams that start
winning, I mean, they've misseddone some guys too. But the drafts
were still replenishing the supply. Imean, there was a lot of turnover

(46:54):
very few players started Lombardi's first gameand we're still starters and sixty seven season.
Let's talk about the nineteen sixty seasonthen, because there was you know,
you go from a one win team, the coaching change, they become
competitive in nineteen fifty nine with sevenwins and they go up against the Eagles

(47:15):
in the nineteen sixty championship game.I mean, you're talking about seismic steps
forward for these young players that arestarting to come together. How did that
gel offensively and defensively had in thelocker room? Well in seventy you know,
in fifty nine, seven and five, I mean to go to one
from one ten and one to sevento five, that's pretty dramatic approvement.

(47:37):
And you know, they finished theseason strong and Lombardi, you know,
it replaced Lamar mccaann, who washis original starting quarterback with Bart Star.
And Star had done well down thestretch. I mean, he was a
third year veteran. It didn't winhis first game until you beat Washington Lait

(47:58):
in fifty nine under Party, butthen start, I mean, Lombardi had
his doubts about Star's physical talent andconfidence level and things like that. So
started a bad game in the sixtyopener, and he benched him again,
went back to McCann and then therewas a blow up in Pittsburgh, followed

(48:21):
by a confrontation when they got backto Green Bay, where McCann and Lombardi
had a confrontation which I wrote aboutat length, and I booked the greatest
story in sports, and that waskind of the end of McCann, and
Star took over and got him intothe championship game. You know, it

(48:42):
was one of the tightest races inthe history, tightest conference races in the
history of the league. And Iremember as a kid, I was thirteen
years old, remember Detroit Baltimore gamethat because the Colts were two time defending
champions in the West, and Iremember, and it was Detroit and a
Baltimore off and they went into atail spin. And I can remember trying

(49:04):
to pick up that game in theradio after the Packer game because because the
race was so tight, and sothey win the conference. They played the
Eagles in the championship game. Theyoutplay him in just about every way,
but at that point bart Starr lateradmitted they lost the game because Norm Van
Brocklin made the plays and he didn't, you know, he was just the

(49:29):
young quarterback and just emerging at thatpoint in time. But they had made
great progress. Paul Hornigan become everythingLombardi expected him to be. When Lobarty
took over, he didn't. Hisfirst priority was finding a half back,
the key to the power sweep,the ball carrying the power sweep, and
the guy that's two the halfback optionmore sol than the quarterback. I mean,

(49:52):
that was his number one priority.And his offense was built around a
polar running game. Well, andthen they go on this incredible run championships
in the nineteen sixties to the firsttwo Super Bowls. What was it like
being in Green Bay at the time, Because the NFL was still, to
a certain extent of fledgling league league. It wasn't brand new, but we

(50:13):
weren't even in the super Bowl erauntil you know, super Bowl one,
which wasn't even called super Bowl one. It kind of was colloquially but not
officially. What was it like beingin Green Bay at the time? Was
it? You know, these werejust the superstars, the kings of all
of Wisconsin. Well, in sixtyone, I would have been fourteen,
and I tell people to this daythat I don't know if there's ever been

(50:38):
a game in Green Bay where theenthusiasm, the anticipation, the excitement was
more genuine than for that sixty onechampionship game, first ever played in Green
Bay. You know, there werestill people alive at that point, or
better still bitter that they had playedthe thirty nine Championship in Milwaukee when it

(50:59):
was Packers turned to host. Um. So the enthusiasm is I felt in
the community. You could just feelthe feel that among people. I mean,
that's all anybody was talking about.That's sad. I Also, I
lived in Green Bay and that wasthe you went to East High School,

(51:22):
correct, Yeah, that was theright next to the old city State.
Yeah, and the and the Packerspart of at that point, the Brewer,
the Molakee Braves had won, beenin two World Series um when Lombardi
came, but they were still competitive. And I always tell people, I
don't know that anything, ever,anything I've ever felt or witnessed in this

(51:43):
state in my lifetime, matched theenthusiasm and the excitement over the Braves.
But I thought for the first time, yeah, that it was the least
now somewhat comparable and then the Bravesleft in nineteen sixty five, and then
that's when the Packers, I meanthey were the only the buck hadn't started
until nineteen sixty eight and took acouple of years for them to get good

(52:04):
with lew Al Sinder. Obviously,now Kareem Abdul Jabbar, there was the
Packers. State wasn't it. Ohit no question, you know, Milwaukee
was kind of lukewarm to embracing thePackers. They started playing there in thirty
two, thirty three, thirty threeI think was played at State Fair Park.
You're at Marquette Stadium, then inCounty Stadium opened. I remember when

(52:25):
Alan Amachi came to Milwaukee with withthe Baltimore Colts. They had a big
crowd, but they didn't they didn'tdraw that well in Milwaukee, and that
just, uh, that all changedwhen Lobarti got here, and especially then
after the Braves left. You know, Milwaukee embraced the Packers as their team,
and that was really the only professionalsport in Milwaukee at that time.

(52:51):
And actually players in the sixties Ithink look forward to those games in Milwaukee
is as much as any like thatwas before they kind of put players in
jail on a Saturday night, ona Saturday night road trip, so they
could go down to Milwaukee. AndLombardi enjoyed it too, because he could

(53:12):
go out to dinner with his friends, and players were on their own to
do what they'd like to do,and being in a big city I think
kind of energized them. The nextyear. When you tell fans that don't
have an historical background about the IceBowl, many don't realize that that was
Lombardi's final game here. But wasthere a feeling that this could be it

(53:36):
for Vince? I mean, youtalked about some rumors swirling about him.
Did his resignation after Super Bowl Two? Did that shock the franchise, the
city, the state? How wasthat received? Well? There was some
speculation the year before, when thePackers played in Dallas for the NFL Championship

(53:59):
that the party may retire after thatseason, so I don't it wasn't totally
unexpected. But then in sixty seven, I think that conversation and the speculation
kind of heated up more at theSuper Bowl, more at the Super Bowl

(54:19):
two than it had prior to thePrior to the Ice Bowl, I don't
remember a lot of discussion about it. I was a college student at the
time, so I wasn't living here. But I don't remember people thinking this
was the end, the feeling thatwas certainty that this was going to be
the end for Lomarty, and itwas at least he stayed on for one

(54:43):
year as general manager. Did hejust get the itch to coach again and
that's what made him seek out anotheropportunity ultimately in Washington? Yeah, you
know, yeah, I don't thinkany question again that priests father at the
poll would close. Friend of theparties told me that Marie told him even

(55:09):
before camp started in sixty eight thathe had made a mistake and he knew
that he was a football coach andhe was going to miss it. But
I don't think he was very carefulnot to interfere with Phil Bingston. But
I think he was. He waseager to get back into coaching. I

(55:30):
don't know how much he really concentratedon his GM job, and I think
he was careful not to metal thingslike that when he probably should have done
more of it. And I thinkjust his presence made it tough on Bingston
because players looked upon him as theguy that could have turned that sixty eighth

(55:51):
season around. All they needed washis leadership and and so he was just
ready. He was ready to getback into the profession. And maybe it
was just burned out here. Ohyeah. You know when I like all
the criticism bred Fire too for beingso wishy washy about retirement. Um,

(56:15):
the people that we're criticizing him,I'll guarantee you weren't people that were in
their late fifties and sixties right orAaron Rodgers right now too. You know,
I went through that as a sportswriter. Um. You know,
it's you get near the end ofthe line and you're anxious to retire and

(56:35):
you're not sure what you want todo. You know, you want to
do something. Um. I thinkalmost all of us go through that.
And you look at the history ofcoaches. I mean Bill Parcels went through
that. Look at Dick Bennett thebasketball Oh sure, yeah. I think
it's particularly true of people that reallypour their heart and soul into their job,
which which Fire did. And againI fully understood why he you know,

(56:58):
it was so uncertain about what hewanted to do, whether you wanted
to keep playing, whether he wantedto retire, and couldn't make up his
mind. That's just human nature,and I Lombardi was no different. That
having been said, how did it? One thing I will say about this
organization is they've been very upfront about, Look, we were kind of wandering

(57:20):
around in the wilderness a couple oftimes in our history, including the seventies
and eighties, the post Lombardi era. From your perspective as someone who started
covering the team, I believe innineteen seventy if I'm not mistaken. How
did this team go from the apexof what it was in the nineteen sixties,
winning all of those championships, thefirst two Super Bowls, Hall of
Famer after Hall of Famer? Howdid it go from that to all of

(57:44):
a sudden in the seventies just notbeing able to not even come close to
recapturing some of the glory that theyhad in the nineteen sixties, save for
the nineteen seventy two season, butthey didn't get far in the playoffs that
year. Five and coaches, okay, that's Rankston Dan, Divine art Star

(58:05):
Forrest, Greg Lindy and Fani.That one might have been worse than the
previous one. People talk about interferencefrom the organization. I don't think that
was true. Nobody was interfered with. It was the there was an aptness
at that level just because they didn'tknow who to hire who, you know,
had no insight into who were theup and coming coaches or anything like

(58:29):
that. But the blame falls onthose guys that were running the team,
the football people, the coaches,and the general managers. I mean they
were they were all disasters and that'show it. Yeah, I mean they
were just there wasn't one of themit was qualified to be a head coach.
I mean when Mike Holman walked inhere nineteen ninety two, I mean

(58:50):
it was like ninety day. Atthat point in time, I was still
pretty much going to practices all thetime. And I mean when two days
after covering twenty four years terrible footballor most of those twenty four years,
I mean, within two days,I thought, oh, this is how
a good organization is run. Didn'thold back in many punches if any.

(59:14):
Cliff Crystal, official historian of theGreen Bay Packers and one of the best
journalists you're ever going to find,thank you so much for the time.
I appreciate it very much. Well, thank you joy my thanks to Cliff
Crystal, the Packers official team historianand the author of the four volume series
The Greatest Story in Sports, whichyou can find in the Packers Pro Shop.
The perfect gift for any Packers fanand for any occasion. I'm Doug

(59:37):
Russell. Thanks for joining me onTales from twelve sixty five. We'll see
you next time. This has beenTales from twelve sixty five with your host
Doug Russell, presented by Nicolay Law, your local award winning injury lawyers.
If you've been injured, get Nicolay, Wisconsin's winning team of lawyers that will
get you back in the game.Tales from twelve sixty five is a presentation

(01:00:01):
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