September 3, 2024 • 23 mins
Mas Palermo joins Bob and Monte at the Spoke. How did Mas come to Austin and why......plus never before told stories ......check out part 1 of our conversation with Mas. Bob guarantee you will become a big Mas fan for life!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, it's Bob Pickett. We are on our way to
the legendary Broken Spoken. Come on, let's get out the
truck and head inside.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And damn you're round of it.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Come on, it's going side. Getting ready for another tale
from the Broken Spoke? Get ready for some more tales.
Tales from the Broken Spoke. Bob Pickett, Monty Warden Send
at the Willie Nilson Booth B two at the Broken
Spoken Mony. I'm going to have you introduce her guests,
because you guys are like brothers. I mean, just watching
you guys banner back and forth before we hit the
record buttons.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
You know I had never met this man come till
this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Come on, No.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
One of my dearest friends of thirty five years, great
record producer, hit songwriter, hell of a drummer, hell of
a drummer, amazing player, just amazing arrangement. This is mos Palermo,
one of my dear friends.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Most you agree with that intro. I think he forgot
a few things.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
But you know what was so cool is is I'll
say this, uh, and you were talking about this for
moscot here virtually no on, no online presence of any kind,
like if you google him, you will find much.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
It's a race. What is that?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
You know, I'm just not I have had I have
the glasses I see behind the drums, as Moni Morden says,
you know, no one loves the spotlight more than mos Pelermo.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Right, so it's really you know, I like to be
in the background. Well, let me tell you you're moving
to the foreground right now.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And that's what's so cool because Moss has been you know,
instrumental literally uh and in my success and in the
success of Dangerous Few. He produced both our records and
our current album, Jackpot is on the charts right now.
But he uh, instrumental in the early career Charlie Robinson
and a lot of people don't know that Moss was
(01:55):
Charlie's very first drummer and is really responsible for the
launching of Kelly Willis's career, and virtually no one knows
those three things. Moss co wrote. The Wagoneer's biggest hit
he wrote was Sit a Little Closer and number one
video and just a very you know, quintessential early country
(02:15):
video that was very influential. The Mavericks took a lot
of their stuff, according to them, from Sit a little closer,
and Moss was going to high school with Kelly or
and discovered her voice and singing. They moved down here
when Charlie was Charlie wasn't even hardly picking right, he
was just working the door at the Continental, right.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Working the door, doing some chapel gigs. I think here
and there right right.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And so it's just interesting where you particularly with someone
like Charlie, who's you know, we missed so much and
who's beloved, and Kelly, who has such an amazing career
and one of the best voices. And somebody that people
are probably wholly unaware that who has been certainly not
(03:01):
responsible for their talent, but there's responsible for people hearing them.
Is Mos Palermo.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
How did you guys first meet? That's one thing you
didn't mention. Well, oh wait, okay, what kind of story
is this? Well, and you had to be a young kid,
but I just moved to Austin.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
He was in nineteen twenties, probably eighty six or eighties.
So yeah, so I'm nineteen.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Pre wagoneer days and early early wagoneers.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, so take it away.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
You know a friend of mine, we were living in
DC at the time, a friend of mine, Sean Mensher,
had moved down here. That's all, as well as the
band the Neptunes. I don't know if you remember, Yeah, Pete,
Pete Gordon.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And the in Neptunes is what we called them.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I did not.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I didn't, hey, guys. So, so I came down and
visited my friend Shawn. I was working for fedexit time
and trying to figure out how do I get to
Austin because that's where I wanted to be, you know,
the Roy Brothers and all the music that I love.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And this is the late eighties, early nineties, this is
yeah eighties probably.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So I came down here and visited and uh and
the Wagoneers were playing at what was it called then
Emo's something Ravens Raven's garage, right, yeah, Roger, Yeah yeah, Roger.
So Sean brought me out there and he's like, man,
you got to meet these guys. They're great, They're nice,
they're the nicest guys in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
The singer in particular, the nicest guy.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I told money all about you. He wants to meet you,
blah blah.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
So they they're playing their set, they take a break,
they're walking down and Sean stands up and stops mony goes, hey,
this is Moss pl Aermo And I said, hey, man,
nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Michaels, Hey, nice to meet you. And he walked off
and that was it.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Wow Sonny, so he goes he goes, wow, that that's
the nicest guy in the world. But what Sean failed
to recognize was immediately after we got off stage, I
think it was a three a three set gig. So
after this the first break, the drummer and I proceeded
to have one of the biggest fights we ever had
(05:03):
in our lives. And this guy, you know, he's just
like looked like a lerch or Herman Monster. That's all
this guy in the room, and and he's just I'm
just writing his faces like a little chi wabba. I'm
just just righting his face. And it's like, you know,
you and just started out, and so it's kind of
a band moment that you just want to stay away from.
And I mean I was like, he was so tall
(05:25):
to point at right in my face, he had to
have his arm way in the air, and we were
just ready to we were ready to go. And I'm
one of those guys where you're gonna have to kill
me if you're gonna fight me, because I'm gonna keep coming.
And so in the midst of that, Sean goes, oh, hey,
I want you to meet my friend from d C.
And I go hey, And so in Mosqcow goes whoa
(05:46):
and and I didn't really remember that. And then I
think I saw you again at the hole in the wall.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I think you know you're looking for a new drummer.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
After that, Oh man, I should have but uh, anyway,
so like I think you were there again with Sean.
Might have been Pete Gordon and uh, and I just
went hey man, and then and then I said I've
heard a lot about you, and and then Moss went
very kind of I'm not gonna give you anything because
we met the other night at Ravens, like, oh yeah,
(06:17):
hey man. So from that our friendship was born and
uh and and we just hit it off and and
uh and it was really cool because the Wagoners were
just getting started. But we had a you know, immediately
we had buzz on us. I mean we you know,
we we got offered our contract with A and m
literally after like our tenth gig or something, you know.
(06:40):
But Moss and I uh were completely sympatico about just
favorite records. And I mean I don't mean like favorite
records like you say, George Jones and Hank Williams. I
mean like obscure uh shaking Stevens weird UK rockabilly stuff,
punk stuff that was really influenced by Eddie Cocker and stuff,
(07:00):
and not just like bands like the Clash, but specific
Clash records. And so we were able immediately to speak
a shorthand that not a lot of people could, you know,
particularly back then. You have to put it in the
context of eighty six or eighty seven, where a young
country act was forty yeah, right, yeah, so there was
(07:22):
no young country and he was looking to move down here,
and he said he had a little uh band up there,
and I think you said we had a chick singer.
But I was under the impression like she's sang some
I don't know why I thought that, maybe because like
down here, like the Trouble Boys or something would have
like Alice Berry come up and sing four or five songs.
(07:44):
But anyway, and I was like, well, cool man. And
and first thing I asked, anybody, is you right? You know?
And MA said yeah, yeah, write a lot. So anyway,
we just really hit it off. And how long from
when your first trip down here to when you and
kell or what just you and Kelly the whole band?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, tell us what happened.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
So when I came down and I met you know
again Wagoneers, this band that's our age that are like
a talk of the town and stuff, and we're like, well,
this is the place we need to be right up there.
We were kind of entrenched in the Rocket. There was
a big rockabilly scene in the DC area, so all
our mentors were these old rockabilly guys and we kind
of it was mainly Kelly and I were talking about, well,
(08:27):
you know, let's get down there. Yeah, we had a
band and everything, which was great, but we were we
were really thinking about it as we were going to
come down here and start something right, And so we
told the guys, hey, you know, I got myself a transfer.
I was working for FedEx at the time. I got
myself transferred down here to Austin, and we said the guys,
you know, hey.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
We're going to go down there. You know.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
It was great and they're like, oh, we're going down there,
let's go. So all of a sudden it was all
of us moving down here, which lasted six months.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Maybe is that it was the name of the band again,
Kelly and the Fireballs.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Great band name, yeah, that had been a couple other
band's band name fifteen.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Lewis, the Fairy Day Fireball right right.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Well, and also the Fireballs from Clovis.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I'm thinking watch also at the same time.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
But what I remember was like Moss was a great drummer,
like in a very I don't know how to say it,
just a very lyrical drummer, because he's a songwriter and
like everybody else, probably in the face of the earth.
One note of hearing Kelly's voice, Kelly was nineteen eighteen
(09:37):
then I guess she was eighteen, right, that'd be about right,
eighteen or nineteen uh and.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Just yeah, so yeah, nineteen Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Her voice was was as there then as it is today.
I mean, she's certainly more refined and you know all that,
and much more mature, but just that voice just I
don't know, it was like hearing Patsy Climb for the
first time, or Emmy new Harris or something, but I
equate it to that where you just go, oh, I'm
hearing a voice I'm gonna hear for the rest of
(10:08):
my life. And so just immediately you knew, okay that
that's somebody that's gonna make records, right. And what I
remember about the band, because they were just your high
school buddies, is they they just they were just terrible
and not like they weren't terrible people. They're great people.
But it ain't show friends, it's show business. I just remember, Oh,
(10:29):
the band won't be her band long.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
They're not polished or what.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
No, they just didn't have They just you know, it's
talents derived from God. And sometimes the day you're born,
you get blessed and sometimes you don't.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
You know, were you the leader of the band, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, that was kind of I was just starting to write.
But more than that, I just kind of had the
vision of what we were we should be doing, and
that's kind of what happened too. We came down here,
you know again, the Wagoneers is kind of you know,
country than what we were used to, and we started
we were thinking, you know, Kelly was especially Kelly was like,
(11:04):
I want to go more in that direction, and the
other guys were like, well, we want to go more.
You know r EM's direction, and Kelly and I were like, eh,
so I remember having sitting down and having this conversation
with the guys, and we went down to lay down
and wall this is what we're going to do, and
they were like no, and Kelly said Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Then I quit.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
She walked out and I was sitting there with my
high school buddies and the band had just broken up. Wow,
six months after being six months after being in Austin,
and by that time we'd already Another huge influence on
us was Evan Johns, who had moved down here. He
was playing with the Liverroy Brothers at the time. He
was also represented by Carlin Major, and he walked our
demo over to her office. So we'd already met with Carlin.
(11:44):
She'd already gave us some tips on what we should
be working on.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
One of them was new band. One of them was
a new band.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
She told me what she said she said, and Carlin
talked like I've always said, if the penguin from Batman
had and a chick, it would sound like Carling. So
she said, she said, honey, you're you're You're such a sweetheart.
I'm not going Okay, what is it okay, here we go.
You need to tell those guys they're terrible. Well I'm
(12:15):
in another bed. No, I'm not gonna do that. No. Yeah,
they could hear it from you. No one wants to
hear that, and nobody can hear that. They'll just they'll
just figure it out. It'll just happen, And it kind
of just did, right.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
And at the time, Monnie's drummer was playing with actor
David Keith, who just made this horrible movie down who
had been kidnapped or so anyways, Uh so I started
playing with him, like I read at that same time
as I think I was already playing with him when
the band broke up. But that was you know, lucrative
at the time and and busy, and you know, who
(12:52):
doesn't want to have actor David Keith come play their
clubs so he could go wherever he wanted.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
We get moving up to Memphis and did the Elvis
Memorials show with the big you know, just because he asked.
You know, so uh that that worked out and kind
of transitioning me from being a working stiff.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
So wait a minute, you worked with with with Keith?
Oh yeah, so you're part of the band. What's he
doing now, He's not you never hear from the guy.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
No, he's he doesn't have an online presence. Uh. Our
bass player at the time, Benny Guardle of Bennie, Uh,
talked to him a little while ago. So he's still around.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
He just well, I was sitting right, he was in
the role right in front of me, same timeframe, late eighties. Ye,
John Mellencamp at the Iarwind Center. Oh yeah, and David
was standing up man, he was enjoying the show. And yeah,
he was in town. He was music, he loved.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Music and a great cat thing.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Was an officer and gentleman. That yeah, yeah, that's the way.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
When I tried to tell to people who he is
and I mentioned a few things, Everyone's like what and
I go.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
The guy him, Oh yeah, So I mean he'd also
done fire Starter, Great and Hell, which is just kind
of mad. But anyway, so what that's that's interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
So those guys were going on the road. So that's
kind of how I backed into that gig. Tom said, hey,
you should have this guy playing That was Michael Ramos
was playing.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Keys, and uh who was playing guitar?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Wouldn't Murray?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
No, Murray, Yeah, took over, but it was Johnny X
was guitar first. That's who we had the video. He
rented out the A c L studio and produced his
own A c L show.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah right, yeah, I had a song on that.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yes, yeah, link Line and Sacred Well you had a
song on his album.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Well he's project. Yeah, I forgot about that.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You haven't seen the check for it lately.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
It's on the ever Benny puts all that. He's like,
he's taken clips from that and put that's right, you
can find your song.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
But like I remember, like when the Wagoneers got signed,
uh and we were you know, like mass said we were,
we were a buzz band. It was just like absolutely
uh A and M Records very first country act since
Graham Parsons and before that They're Want and only country
act had been Whalen. So it was a it was
a big deal. And and so all of a sudden,
(15:17):
what we discovered was virtually every A and R department
descended on Austin to go sign another you know, the
next Wagoneers or their version of the Wagoneers. And and
what happens a lot still to this day is when
a buzz band gets signed. The the labels that pass
(15:39):
on you are then told to go back there and
get one. I mean, you know, that's that's the oldest.
You know, when Deca passed on Elvis, uh, Jim Denny
was told by Decca Nash Deca, New York, I don't
care who it is. The next rock and roll singer
that walks through your door signed them, and it was
Buddy Holly, you know. So that's that's how a lot
(16:00):
of people get their record deals. And so what we
quickly discovered is a bunch of bands that couldn't get
anything going in their hometown moved to Austin, which was
which was kind of a stupid way of doing things,
or a backwards way of doing things, because if you
if you well not y'all, if you couldn't get something
(16:22):
going in your hometown, the last place you should move
would be Austin, where we were like the on the
forefront of that young country kick with. And so a
bunch of these bands moved in that, you know, couldn't
write home for money and couldn't play their way out
of a paper sack, and they were just no good.
And out of that there was this one act Kelly Willis,
(16:45):
and we were just all going, I mean, she's not
just great for here, she's great for history. This is
like I mean, I remember I remember telling Emmy, I mean,
lou was a huge champion of the Wags. You know,
she goes what goes down, on what's going on and
Austin I said, this chick, Kelly Willis, she's just this
little girl, and you're gonna be hearing about her forever.
(17:06):
It was. It was astonishing how great she was. And
pretty quickly there was label interest, you know. And I
remember that she had just these batch of songs that
I didn't know at the time that Moss had written
all of these songs and he was able and then
later on with me, but he was able to immediately
(17:30):
write songs, which it's so difficult to do. You can
write a great song, which is its own miracle, but
he was able to immediately write these songs that were
perfect for Kelly's voice. Moss was just able to go, oh,
her voice likes to go way up here suddenly, and
then crash it down and melodically, I don't even know
(17:51):
if you were conscious of it, just oh, well, we
need a song that does that and how many how
quickly did you write those songs and how many did
you right?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
The first two albums? Really yeah, yeah, Uh, well it's funny.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
When we moved down here, I probably had only two
songs that I had written that we were doing right,
of course, the first batch of songs that you write
that are never get out of the incubator.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
But uh, they had they had the thing in them
though exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, something I go, oh, that's what I need to do. Yeah, So.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
I came down, Like the first song I wrote down
here was when I was sleeping on the Neptunes floor
trying to find a place to live, and I wrote
River of Love, which ended up being.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
On Yeah, I remember that song certainly, Yeah, on.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Kelly's first record. So I think you know, we got
signed within I think a year sixteen months of being
here or something like that. Uh, so by that time
I had written I guess I wrote half the six
six songs that were on that first record, and you
had two cuts.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
To on the first and Paul Kennerley, I think that's
the album.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
That's the album. Yeah, So it was, uh, the showcase
was at the Continental Club to that album.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I remember, yes, yes, in fact, the Continental Club is
we were playing the Continental Club one night and Nancy
Griffin showed up. Uh.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
And back then there was a.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Payphone in the corner of the club, okay, and we
were on stage and she picked with the phone. She
called Tony Brown at mc A and she said, you
got to hear this, and she held up the phone.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
So that's how Tony got involved. That's how that's how
Tony first got involved.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, and then he came down and saw played the
home wall and he walked up to Kelly and said, well,
I'm either going to sign you or marry you.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
And man, and.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Did you know that he that Tony had picked with
Elvis at that time?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
That time, I knew he had been working with all
the stuff that I liked that was coming out.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Of Nashville, right, yeah, most, but you didn't know he'd picked.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I had no idea he'd played with Elvis at that time.
I bet he had some great stories for you, didn't
he did, He didn't share any with us right now,
it's no I can share that's so.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Great the best stories about Elvis. You go, am I
going to stop the microphone? Oh, I can't tell this story.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So the pay phone. Interesting. Yeah, with the late great
Nancy Griffith. Wow, Mass never knew that story at all.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
And I'll just say this about about Nancy and about
really Austin particularly at the time, is she's on MCA.
She's a chick singer on mc A and still and
and and you would think they would go, oh, I'm
gonna never tell the hit of my label about another
(20:44):
chick singer. But Nancy being such a precious soul in
Austin just having that thing where I mean when I
came up, the older cats were pulling for me, you know,
e Lei and Gilmour and all those cats were pulling
for me and telling people about me and and not
(21:04):
conscious of it. But as soon as people were asking
me what was going on, I was talking about Kelly there.
There is not that thing where we put our arm
over our plate and go this is mine.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
So you were immediately accepted here in Austin.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah, and we did not trust these people, and yeah,
we got here, but he was so nice and we're like,
what do these people want from us?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
To borrow money?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah, we weren't used to that kind of camaraderie up there.
It was you know, every man from So.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
The first time you moved in here, how long did
it take for you to get comfortable with? Very very quick.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
I mean once we figured out there's no ulterium. This
is the way the people are in the music scene.
The music cats were all pulling forth, like he said, wagoneers,
find found our bass player, you know, Nancy Griffin called
Tony Brown. It was just the community was you know,
Evan John's handed our demo tape to Carl and it
was everybody was sticking out their hands say and hey,
(22:00):
what can I do for you?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
You know honestly, and it's like be like Kelly needed
some gigs, Well great, should just open up every wagon
eear show. I mean she probably opened thirty wagon ears
show or something road trip yeah up north, And it
was just h and really that was I think that
was like our first East Coast run where every show
(22:21):
was sold out and was like, oh, you know, and
it's just but it's just wild that everybody just just
dug one or not. You know. But I will say this, uh,
I haven't like the thing that Austin did and still
does is only for when people are great, you know,
(22:42):
they don't they don't pull people for people because you're nice. Right,
it's where they're nice and if you're great, they'll they'll
help you. But it's not just hey, you're you suck,
but we're nice. It's not that at all. It's it's
it's like, it's also that's that's kind of a cool
thread of you be interesting to see what the next
(23:02):
If the next generations that away, it could be still possible.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, I think it's possible. You just got to get
it back down here. Enjoying the conversation so far. Oh,
there's a lot more to go. Part two of our
conversation next week on Tales from the Broken Spoking. Listen
tell you friends about the podcast. I'll love it too.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Tales from the Broken Spoke is recorded live at The
Broken Spoke in Austin, Texas, hosted by Country Radio Hall
of Fame broadcaster Bog Pickett and Monty Warden, recorded mixed
down and produced by Mike Rivera
Hey, it's Bob Pickett. We are on our way to
the legendary Broken Spoken. Come on, let's get out the
truck and head inside.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And damn you're round of it.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Come on, it's going side. Getting ready for another tale
from the Broken Spoke? Get ready for some more tales.
Tales from the Broken Spoke. Bob Pickett, Monty Warden Send
at the Willie Nilson Booth B two at the Broken
Spoken Mony. I'm going to have you introduce her guests,
because you guys are like brothers. I mean, just watching
you guys banner back and forth before we hit the
record buttons.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
You know I had never met this man come till
this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Come on, No.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
One of my dearest friends of thirty five years, great
record producer, hit songwriter, hell of a drummer, hell of
a drummer, amazing player, just amazing arrangement. This is mos Palermo,
one of my dear friends.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Most you agree with that intro. I think he forgot
a few things.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
But you know what was so cool is is I'll
say this, uh, and you were talking about this for
moscot here virtually no on, no online presence of any kind,
like if you google him, you will find much.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
It's a race. What is that?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
You know, I'm just not I have had I have
the glasses I see behind the drums, as Moni Morden says,
you know, no one loves the spotlight more than mos Pelermo.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Right, so it's really you know, I like to be
in the background. Well, let me tell you you're moving
to the foreground right now.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And that's what's so cool because Moss has been you know,
instrumental literally uh and in my success and in the
success of Dangerous Few. He produced both our records and
our current album, Jackpot is on the charts right now.
But he uh, instrumental in the early career Charlie Robinson
and a lot of people don't know that Moss was
(01:55):
Charlie's very first drummer and is really responsible for the
launching of Kelly Willis's career, and virtually no one knows
those three things. Moss co wrote. The Wagoneer's biggest hit
he wrote was Sit a Little Closer and number one
video and just a very you know, quintessential early country
(02:15):
video that was very influential. The Mavericks took a lot
of their stuff, according to them, from Sit a little closer,
and Moss was going to high school with Kelly or
and discovered her voice and singing. They moved down here
when Charlie was Charlie wasn't even hardly picking right, he
was just working the door at the Continental, right.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Working the door, doing some chapel gigs. I think here
and there right right.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And so it's just interesting where you particularly with someone
like Charlie, who's you know, we missed so much and
who's beloved, and Kelly, who has such an amazing career
and one of the best voices. And somebody that people
are probably wholly unaware that who has been certainly not
(03:01):
responsible for their talent, but there's responsible for people hearing them.
Is Mos Palermo.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
How did you guys first meet? That's one thing you
didn't mention. Well, oh wait, okay, what kind of story
is this? Well, and you had to be a young kid,
but I just moved to Austin.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
He was in nineteen twenties, probably eighty six or eighties.
So yeah, so I'm nineteen.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Pre wagoneer days and early early wagoneers.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, so take it away.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
You know a friend of mine, we were living in
DC at the time, a friend of mine, Sean Mensher,
had moved down here. That's all, as well as the
band the Neptunes. I don't know if you remember, Yeah, Pete,
Pete Gordon.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And the in Neptunes is what we called them.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I did not.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I didn't, hey, guys. So, so I came down and
visited my friend Shawn. I was working for fedexit time
and trying to figure out how do I get to
Austin because that's where I wanted to be, you know,
the Roy Brothers and all the music that I love.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And this is the late eighties, early nineties, this is
yeah eighties probably.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So I came down here and visited and uh and
the Wagoneers were playing at what was it called then
Emo's something Ravens Raven's garage, right, yeah, Roger, Yeah yeah, Roger.
So Sean brought me out there and he's like, man,
you got to meet these guys. They're great, They're nice,
they're the nicest guys in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
The singer in particular, the nicest guy.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I told money all about you. He wants to meet you,
blah blah.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
So they they're playing their set, they take a break,
they're walking down and Sean stands up and stops mony goes, hey,
this is Moss pl Aermo And I said, hey, man,
nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Michaels, Hey, nice to meet you. And he walked off
and that was it.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Wow Sonny, so he goes he goes, wow, that that's
the nicest guy in the world. But what Sean failed
to recognize was immediately after we got off stage, I
think it was a three a three set gig. So
after this the first break, the drummer and I proceeded
to have one of the biggest fights we ever had
(05:03):
in our lives. And this guy, you know, he's just
like looked like a lerch or Herman Monster. That's all
this guy in the room, and and he's just I'm
just writing his faces like a little chi wabba. I'm
just just righting his face. And it's like, you know,
you and just started out, and so it's kind of
a band moment that you just want to stay away from.
And I mean I was like, he was so tall
(05:25):
to point at right in my face, he had to
have his arm way in the air, and we were
just ready to we were ready to go. And I'm
one of those guys where you're gonna have to kill
me if you're gonna fight me, because I'm gonna keep coming.
And so in the midst of that, Sean goes, oh, hey,
I want you to meet my friend from d C.
And I go hey, And so in Mosqcow goes whoa
(05:46):
and and I didn't really remember that. And then I
think I saw you again at the hole in the wall.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I think you know you're looking for a new drummer.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
After that, Oh man, I should have but uh, anyway,
so like I think you were there again with Sean.
Might have been Pete Gordon and uh, and I just
went hey man, and then and then I said I've
heard a lot about you, and and then Moss went
very kind of I'm not gonna give you anything because
we met the other night at Ravens, like, oh yeah,
(06:17):
hey man. So from that our friendship was born and
uh and and we just hit it off and and
uh and it was really cool because the Wagoners were
just getting started. But we had a you know, immediately
we had buzz on us. I mean we you know,
we we got offered our contract with A and m
literally after like our tenth gig or something, you know.
(06:40):
But Moss and I uh were completely sympatico about just
favorite records. And I mean I don't mean like favorite
records like you say, George Jones and Hank Williams. I
mean like obscure uh shaking Stevens weird UK rockabilly stuff,
punk stuff that was really influenced by Eddie Cocker and stuff,
(07:00):
and not just like bands like the Clash, but specific
Clash records. And so we were able immediately to speak
a shorthand that not a lot of people could, you know,
particularly back then. You have to put it in the
context of eighty six or eighty seven, where a young
country act was forty yeah, right, yeah, so there was
(07:22):
no young country and he was looking to move down here,
and he said he had a little uh band up there,
and I think you said we had a chick singer.
But I was under the impression like she's sang some
I don't know why I thought that, maybe because like
down here, like the Trouble Boys or something would have
like Alice Berry come up and sing four or five songs.
(07:44):
But anyway, and I was like, well, cool man. And
and first thing I asked, anybody, is you right? You know?
And MA said yeah, yeah, write a lot. So anyway,
we just really hit it off. And how long from
when your first trip down here to when you and
kell or what just you and Kelly the whole band?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, tell us what happened.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
So when I came down and I met you know
again Wagoneers, this band that's our age that are like
a talk of the town and stuff, and we're like, well,
this is the place we need to be right up there.
We were kind of entrenched in the Rocket. There was
a big rockabilly scene in the DC area, so all
our mentors were these old rockabilly guys and we kind
of it was mainly Kelly and I were talking about, well,
(08:27):
you know, let's get down there. Yeah, we had a
band and everything, which was great, but we were we
were really thinking about it as we were going to
come down here and start something right, And so we
told the guys, hey, you know, I got myself a transfer.
I was working for FedEx at the time. I got
myself transferred down here to Austin, and we said the guys,
you know, hey.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
We're going to go down there. You know.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
It was great and they're like, oh, we're going down there,
let's go. So all of a sudden it was all
of us moving down here, which lasted six months.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Maybe is that it was the name of the band again,
Kelly and the Fireballs.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Great band name, yeah, that had been a couple other
band's band name fifteen.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Lewis, the Fairy Day Fireball right right.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Well, and also the Fireballs from Clovis.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I'm thinking watch also at the same time.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
But what I remember was like Moss was a great drummer,
like in a very I don't know how to say it,
just a very lyrical drummer, because he's a songwriter and
like everybody else, probably in the face of the earth.
One note of hearing Kelly's voice, Kelly was nineteen eighteen
(09:37):
then I guess she was eighteen, right, that'd be about right,
eighteen or nineteen uh and.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Just yeah, so yeah, nineteen Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Her voice was was as there then as it is today.
I mean, she's certainly more refined and you know all that,
and much more mature, but just that voice just I
don't know, it was like hearing Patsy Climb for the
first time, or Emmy new Harris or something, but I
equate it to that where you just go, oh, I'm
hearing a voice I'm gonna hear for the rest of
(10:08):
my life. And so just immediately you knew, okay that
that's somebody that's gonna make records, right. And what I
remember about the band, because they were just your high
school buddies, is they they just they were just terrible
and not like they weren't terrible people. They're great people.
But it ain't show friends, it's show business. I just remember, Oh,
(10:29):
the band won't be her band long.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
They're not polished or what.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
No, they just didn't have They just you know, it's
talents derived from God. And sometimes the day you're born,
you get blessed and sometimes you don't.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
You know, were you the leader of the band, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, that was kind of I was just starting to write.
But more than that, I just kind of had the
vision of what we were we should be doing, and
that's kind of what happened too. We came down here,
you know again, the Wagoneers is kind of you know,
country than what we were used to, and we started
we were thinking, you know, Kelly was especially Kelly was like,
(11:04):
I want to go more in that direction, and the
other guys were like, well, we want to go more.
You know r EM's direction, and Kelly and I were like, eh,
so I remember having sitting down and having this conversation
with the guys, and we went down to lay down
and wall this is what we're going to do, and
they were like no, and Kelly said Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Then I quit.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
She walked out and I was sitting there with my
high school buddies and the band had just broken up. Wow,
six months after being six months after being in Austin,
and by that time we'd already Another huge influence on
us was Evan Johns, who had moved down here. He
was playing with the Liverroy Brothers at the time. He
was also represented by Carlin Major, and he walked our
demo over to her office. So we'd already met with Carlin.
(11:44):
She'd already gave us some tips on what we should
be working on.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
One of them was new band. One of them was
a new band.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
She told me what she said she said, and Carlin
talked like I've always said, if the penguin from Batman
had and a chick, it would sound like Carling. So
she said, she said, honey, you're you're You're such a sweetheart.
I'm not going Okay, what is it okay, here we go.
You need to tell those guys they're terrible. Well I'm
(12:15):
in another bed. No, I'm not gonna do that. No. Yeah,
they could hear it from you. No one wants to
hear that, and nobody can hear that. They'll just they'll
just figure it out. It'll just happen, And it kind
of just did, right.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
And at the time, Monnie's drummer was playing with actor
David Keith, who just made this horrible movie down who
had been kidnapped or so anyways, Uh so I started
playing with him, like I read at that same time
as I think I was already playing with him when
the band broke up. But that was you know, lucrative
at the time and and busy, and you know, who
(12:52):
doesn't want to have actor David Keith come play their
clubs so he could go wherever he wanted.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
We get moving up to Memphis and did the Elvis
Memorials show with the big you know, just because he asked.
You know, so uh that that worked out and kind
of transitioning me from being a working stiff.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
So wait a minute, you worked with with with Keith?
Oh yeah, so you're part of the band. What's he
doing now, He's not you never hear from the guy.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
No, he's he doesn't have an online presence. Uh. Our
bass player at the time, Benny Guardle of Bennie, Uh,
talked to him a little while ago. So he's still around.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
He just well, I was sitting right, he was in
the role right in front of me, same timeframe, late eighties. Ye,
John Mellencamp at the Iarwind Center. Oh yeah, and David
was standing up man, he was enjoying the show. And yeah,
he was in town. He was music, he loved.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Music and a great cat thing.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Was an officer and gentleman. That yeah, yeah, that's the way.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
When I tried to tell to people who he is
and I mentioned a few things, Everyone's like what and
I go.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
The guy him, Oh yeah, So I mean he'd also
done fire Starter, Great and Hell, which is just kind
of mad. But anyway, so what that's that's interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
So those guys were going on the road. So that's
kind of how I backed into that gig. Tom said, hey,
you should have this guy playing That was Michael Ramos
was playing.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Keys, and uh who was playing guitar?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Wouldn't Murray?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
No, Murray, Yeah, took over, but it was Johnny X
was guitar first. That's who we had the video. He
rented out the A c L studio and produced his
own A c L show.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah right, yeah, I had a song on that.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yes, yeah, link Line and Sacred Well you had a
song on his album.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Well he's project. Yeah, I forgot about that.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You haven't seen the check for it lately.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
It's on the ever Benny puts all that. He's like,
he's taken clips from that and put that's right, you
can find your song.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
But like I remember, like when the Wagoneers got signed,
uh and we were you know, like mass said we were,
we were a buzz band. It was just like absolutely
uh A and M Records very first country act since
Graham Parsons and before that They're Want and only country
act had been Whalen. So it was a it was
a big deal. And and so all of a sudden,
(15:17):
what we discovered was virtually every A and R department
descended on Austin to go sign another you know, the
next Wagoneers or their version of the Wagoneers. And and
what happens a lot still to this day is when
a buzz band gets signed. The the labels that pass
(15:39):
on you are then told to go back there and
get one. I mean, you know, that's that's the oldest.
You know, when Deca passed on Elvis, uh, Jim Denny
was told by Decca Nash Deca, New York, I don't
care who it is. The next rock and roll singer
that walks through your door signed them, and it was
Buddy Holly, you know. So that's that's how a lot
(16:00):
of people get their record deals. And so what we
quickly discovered is a bunch of bands that couldn't get
anything going in their hometown moved to Austin, which was
which was kind of a stupid way of doing things,
or a backwards way of doing things, because if you
if you well not y'all, if you couldn't get something
(16:22):
going in your hometown, the last place you should move
would be Austin, where we were like the on the
forefront of that young country kick with. And so a
bunch of these bands moved in that, you know, couldn't
write home for money and couldn't play their way out
of a paper sack, and they were just no good.
And out of that there was this one act Kelly Willis,
(16:45):
and we were just all going, I mean, she's not
just great for here, she's great for history. This is
like I mean, I remember I remember telling Emmy, I mean,
lou was a huge champion of the Wags. You know,
she goes what goes down, on what's going on and
Austin I said, this chick, Kelly Willis, she's just this
little girl, and you're gonna be hearing about her forever.
(17:06):
It was. It was astonishing how great she was. And
pretty quickly there was label interest, you know. And I
remember that she had just these batch of songs that
I didn't know at the time that Moss had written
all of these songs and he was able and then
later on with me, but he was able to immediately
(17:30):
write songs, which it's so difficult to do. You can
write a great song, which is its own miracle, but
he was able to immediately write these songs that were
perfect for Kelly's voice. Moss was just able to go, oh,
her voice likes to go way up here suddenly, and
then crash it down and melodically, I don't even know
(17:51):
if you were conscious of it, just oh, well, we
need a song that does that and how many how
quickly did you write those songs and how many did
you right?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
The first two albums? Really yeah, yeah, Uh, well it's funny.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
When we moved down here, I probably had only two
songs that I had written that we were doing right,
of course, the first batch of songs that you write
that are never get out of the incubator.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
But uh, they had they had the thing in them
though exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, something I go, oh, that's what I need to do. Yeah, So.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
I came down, Like the first song I wrote down
here was when I was sleeping on the Neptunes floor
trying to find a place to live, and I wrote
River of Love, which ended up being.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
On Yeah, I remember that song certainly, Yeah, on.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Kelly's first record. So I think you know, we got
signed within I think a year sixteen months of being
here or something like that. Uh, so by that time
I had written I guess I wrote half the six
six songs that were on that first record, and you
had two cuts.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
To on the first and Paul Kennerley, I think that's
the album.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
That's the album. Yeah, So it was, uh, the showcase
was at the Continental Club to that album.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I remember, yes, yes, in fact, the Continental Club is
we were playing the Continental Club one night and Nancy
Griffin showed up. Uh.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
And back then there was a.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Payphone in the corner of the club, okay, and we
were on stage and she picked with the phone. She
called Tony Brown at mc A and she said, you
got to hear this, and she held up the phone.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
So that's how Tony got involved. That's how that's how
Tony first got involved.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, and then he came down and saw played the
home wall and he walked up to Kelly and said, well,
I'm either going to sign you or marry you.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
And man, and.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Did you know that he that Tony had picked with
Elvis at that time?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
That time, I knew he had been working with all
the stuff that I liked that was coming out.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Of Nashville, right, yeah, most, but you didn't know he'd picked.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I had no idea he'd played with Elvis at that time.
I bet he had some great stories for you, didn't
he did, He didn't share any with us right now,
it's no I can share that's so.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Great the best stories about Elvis. You go, am I
going to stop the microphone? Oh, I can't tell this story.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So the pay phone. Interesting. Yeah, with the late great
Nancy Griffith. Wow, Mass never knew that story at all.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
And I'll just say this about about Nancy and about
really Austin particularly at the time, is she's on MCA.
She's a chick singer on mc A and still and
and and you would think they would go, oh, I'm
gonna never tell the hit of my label about another
(20:44):
chick singer. But Nancy being such a precious soul in
Austin just having that thing where I mean when I
came up, the older cats were pulling for me, you know,
e Lei and Gilmour and all those cats were pulling
for me and telling people about me and and not
(21:04):
conscious of it. But as soon as people were asking
me what was going on, I was talking about Kelly there.
There is not that thing where we put our arm
over our plate and go this is mine.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
So you were immediately accepted here in Austin.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah, and we did not trust these people, and yeah,
we got here, but he was so nice and we're like,
what do these people want from us?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
To borrow money?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah, we weren't used to that kind of camaraderie up there.
It was you know, every man from So.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
The first time you moved in here, how long did
it take for you to get comfortable with? Very very quick.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
I mean once we figured out there's no ulterium. This
is the way the people are in the music scene.
The music cats were all pulling forth, like he said, wagoneers,
find found our bass player, you know, Nancy Griffin called
Tony Brown. It was just the community was you know,
Evan John's handed our demo tape to Carl and it
was everybody was sticking out their hands say and hey,
(22:00):
what can I do for you?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
You know honestly, and it's like be like Kelly needed
some gigs, Well great, should just open up every wagon
eear show. I mean she probably opened thirty wagon ears
show or something road trip yeah up north, And it
was just h and really that was I think that
was like our first East Coast run where every show
(22:21):
was sold out and was like, oh, you know, and
it's just but it's just wild that everybody just just
dug one or not. You know. But I will say this, uh,
I haven't like the thing that Austin did and still
does is only for when people are great, you know,
(22:42):
they don't they don't pull people for people because you're nice. Right,
it's where they're nice and if you're great, they'll they'll
help you. But it's not just hey, you're you suck,
but we're nice. It's not that at all. It's it's
it's like, it's also that's that's kind of a cool
thread of you be interesting to see what the next
(23:02):
If the next generations that away, it could be still possible.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, I think it's possible. You just got to get
it back down here. Enjoying the conversation so far. Oh,
there's a lot more to go. Part two of our
conversation next week on Tales from the Broken Spoking. Listen
tell you friends about the podcast. I'll love it too.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Tales from the Broken Spoke is recorded live at The
Broken Spoke in Austin, Texas, hosted by Country Radio Hall
of Fame broadcaster Bog Pickett and Monty Warden, recorded mixed
down and produced by Mike Rivera
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