Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When you need wisdom and advice. Seek out a guru
when you need wisdom and advice about remodeling and design.
Lock on and listen right now. And Nick the Construction
Guru here is award winning remodeling expert Nick Kerzner.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Talk eleven thirty wisn Nick the Construction Guru. Exciting day
today beside the snow, we have some tips for homeowners
thinking about remodeling projects. And I have my lovely wife here, Lynn,
and we're going to talk today about a Facebook post
that we put up on our page about a couple
in Mekwan who had a challenging event with another contractor.
(00:44):
Not so much that we're going to get into who
the contractor is or if you go online you can
find that on our posts, but just want to talk
about what happened and kind of how to avoid these
in the future. So Lynn, thanks for coming in today.
I know you're busy, but you're here good morning. So
tell us a little bit about what happened to this couple.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, I mean I post for our Facebook page and
I obviously peruse Facebook and Team j has a playset
you can go to for consumer complaints and then they
investigate and basic lightning light. I couldn't find it. Yes,
something it's kind of like for Contact SI.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, I don't want to I'm sure that TMJ four
isn't gonna be happy with me, but it is like
like Contact six.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, it's a consumer advocacy where they investigate on behalf
and kind of do some reporting. And basically they hired
a contractor. I don't know all the details, so that's
where I don't want to get in the minutia of
the specifics because it was a very short excerpt. I'm
sure there's more behind the scenes with both sides. But
they paid them. They didn't get a job that was
(01:51):
done correctly. There were some problems with the plumbing. Again
not to take any size, but and then they weren't
be able to get a resolution. They didn't get any
money back. They felt like they were just kind of
left tie and dry with a contractor.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Well, and the bottom line is is when you're getting
started with a remodeling project, it's supposed to be a
fun thing. It's you know you're going to after you
get the minutia, the pricing and all that figured out,
then it's fun and start. Time to start picking tile
and light fixtures and sinks and faucets. But when you
get into the middle of a project and things aren't
(02:28):
going the way they're supposed to be going. And in
this case, I think the contractor had more money than
he had work in the project.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
And again I have a feeling based on the conversation,
but I don't have any valid proof because again I
haven't sat down and talked to these people. It's just
based on this news reporting segment.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's just another one of those things that catch caught
our eye because we're in the business and we look
at this and you know, you wonder, why do people
pay all the money up front? I'm not sure that
was the case here, Or why do people get in
deeper into the money than they are into the project.
What is the vetting process that these people decided to do.
(03:08):
The one thing I am going to say, and if
you look at the post on our Facebook page, the
cost of the bathroom was suspect to me right away.
When you have a full bathroom remodel for thirty five
thousand dollars, I'm just going to tell you, and this
may drop some draws out there, but you're not getting
a full bathroom model for thirty five thousand dollars these
(03:29):
days anymore. So you know a lot of times people
will say, yeah, we've added them in the vetting is
while they were the low bitter you know.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Well.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And the other thing again, not to pick on anybody,
including these clients, these people that you know got felt
ripped off. One of the red flags that I heard
also if you listen to their thing is they picked
him because he was the quickest to get started. And
that's another red flag. So I mean, there's a lot
of red flags in the story without even knowing the
(03:59):
whole story. And that's where I think this conversation. You know,
and you've done seminars many times talking to consumers, and
you've gone on Contact six in the past with Katrina
Cravi and went after people who have done bad jobs,
yeah their front door, and then and also helped make
those customers new again by bringing in, you know, trusted
(04:21):
vendors like Tommy Eliota to make things right for jobs
that people didn't do right. So, you know, you have
a lot of experience working with the Ethics and Better
Business Bureau and helping mediate these kinds of things. Sometimes
it's bad people sometimes it's bad communication. Sometimes it's misunderstandings.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, you know, the key to this is don't be
a dummy. If you're a dummy, you're going to get
bad results. So just because a guy has a big,
flashy ad or has big wraps around his truck, that's
not why you go with that contractor you have to
look into this and see what's going on.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
One of the.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Dumbest things I heard on this particular post was that
they because he was the fastest this business. If you're good,
you're busy. So why would you want somebody who's not busy,
Because if you're good, you're busy. If you're no good,
you're not busy. That's just common lodge. That's fifth grade
math for me.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Well so, and I agree completely, But I know when
people get in the midst of wanting something done, you
know again it's the Amazon exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
And it doesn't work and remodeling. Yeah, and you know,
I'm on the Nary Ethics Committee and we're the worthy
We're the committee that does the arbitration and mediation if
there's a challenge between a member and a homeowner, and
more often than not, it's communication. But I have to
tell you a lot of times. The reasons that people
(05:49):
pick the contractors the dumbest two reasons is fast and cheap.
It's just dumb. You're going to take a risk doing that.
And I I when when I look at homeowners sitting
on the side of the table saying, well, they said
it could get there right away and we needed it
for a daughter's graduation, I want to just look at
them and go, you're dumb, because that's not how it works.
(06:10):
You have to vet first of all. The number one
criteria for me is how long has that company been
in business under the same name and ownership. That's number
one for me because they've been doing it a long time.
I've said it a million times if I've said it
once on this show and at seminars. If you are
(06:30):
in this business, there's no university. There's follow up certifications
through NARY, and there's training programs that you can go through,
but there's no established criteria and then a certificate at
the end that where you can say, Okay, I'm a remodeler.
We learn by making mistakes on people's houses. Sorry to
say that. So the longest that you've been the longer
(06:53):
you've been in business, the more mistakes you've made, the
more lessons you've learned.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
It's what we call paying tuition.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
So when you look at a contractor who's been in
business for three years and then you look at a
contractor who's been in business for fifty years, No, I'm
not going to make any bones about it. The fifty
year contractor is better than the three year contractor, and
you will be right making that decision. Ninety eight percent
of the time. When you look at the contractor's portfolio
(07:20):
as far as what they're doing, and you follow up
and talk to some customers, you're going to be able
to tell whether I mean, we were at one. I'm
not going to bring up their name. But out in Pewaukee,
the guys advertising all over Facebook. It's a husband wife team.
They're doing a lot of advertising on Facebook. And every
(07:41):
job we've been to, they've screwed up every single one
of them. And you know, why not ask the contractor
for somebody and then make the phone call.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
That's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I'll give out names of references and people will go okay,
and they think just because you're providing the references, that's good.
You're good now because you're not going to provide a
reference that's going to give you a bad rap. So
people say, well, at least they gave us some reference.
Call the people and ask them some questions, Ask the
right questions. What happened when there was a delay? How
were you, how were you notified by that? How was
(08:13):
the contractor's communication style? Things like that. You can gain
a lot from that. And I've said it a million times.
If I've said at once, remodeling is a short term marriage. Okay,
I didn't marry the first girl I dated, and neither
did any of you out there or the first guy
that you dated, because somewhere along the line they out here,
here's what one going.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I did.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
No, I'm just laughing. There is people who have that's
not completely true statement.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
But but okay, the Lion's shared.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
The people who got married and with the first person
they dated probably aren't married anymore. Okay, so that's another thing.
But what I'm saying is this isn't a marriage consoling class.
But I'm just saying, you know, it's you. You have
to have a certain community. I might be the right
guy for some people. I'm definitely not the right guy
for other people. And I already know that, and I
(09:01):
establish a communications style with people and I'll tell them
if I feel like it's not going to work between us.
I'm a control freak. I can't work for other control freaks.
So if you're a control freak, you don't want to
deal with cursion remodeling construction. That's just the way it is.
If you want to be guided through a process and
you want to be softly taken down that road, then
we're the right people.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
But I think and that's all those are val points.
I think the one thing that I think is important
for the consumer and people listening to understand is that,
for instance, this guy might have been a legit contractor
at one point, things happen. You know, maybe I don't
know again whether this is the truth of the story is,
but we've seen true true, right, But there's there has
(09:44):
been bad contrasts that taking people's money. We've seen it,
we've lived it, and we've reach they.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Started out with that intent, right, what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
But I think the things that I want to highlight
and that we should, you know, talk about is if
let's say it was thirty five thousand, we're going that's
pretty you for remodel. Now, thirty five thousand dollars a
lot of money to somebody, and it's a lot of
money in general. So it's not to pooh pooh, thirty.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Five thousand, five hundreds a lot of money.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah, but I'm saying so it's not even the cost,
it's that when did they pay these There should be milestones,
And this is one thing that I think people should understand.
If they let's say it's fifty thousand, let's say it's
one hundred thousand, you never give that full amount down
at the beginning, or even half of it down. There
should be and I think that's something that people should
understand and maybe explain that because I think that's a
(10:29):
critical element of It's real simple.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
You should never be deeper in money than they are
in labor. So in the beginning, there is going to
be an initial investment that you have to make because
I mean, I mean, at least from our perspective at
our company, I'm not going to finance the jobs. So
what I mean by that is if you're getting you know,
sixty thousand dollars worth of kitchen cabin, that's nine thousand
dollars worth of countertops and we're ordering that, we want
(10:56):
half that money upfront, just like anybody else would if
you're having a custom suit made or customs drapery, anything
like that. The cabinets are going to fit your house,
the countertops are going to fit your house. They're not
going to fit somebody else's, so we're stuck with them.
So you're stuck with them. Once those are installed, we
want the other half of the money, because that's we're
deep as deep into labor as you are.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
In the money.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So when we draft our sales agreement, it says in
there that at this point when drywall hits, keep in
mind when you do drywall, all your electrical stunt, all
your plumbings done.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Now there's a payment due.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Once you pay that payment, then we go on to
the next thing and maybe we put in all the
trim and the cabinets, and then there's a payment due.
And so you should feel comfortable, and I know, at
least with us, if you're uncomfortable with our milestones, we'll
work with you so that you're comfortable. Now, some people
in this business can't do that because they need your
down payment to make next week's payroll. And that's why
(11:51):
you want to deal with the company that's been in
business along time. I'm sorry, I'm a little hardcore on
this because I've seen it too much.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Right, No, And I think that's one of the biggest
things I think consumers should really think about. They shouldn't
get coherced into giving all their money because again, this
is this is usually when it goes south because they can't.
They don't have any recuperation if things don't go well,
if there's a misach, right, there's no leverage. You go
(12:17):
after them and they probably don't have the money, and
then they're bankrupt. And guess what. Here, here is the story,
the scenario we see over and over, and.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
You know, we're gonna take a short break. But when
we come back, I want to talk a little bit
about you know, people, lawyers, courts and all of that.
We're gonna I'm gonna tell you what the normal result
is when you get an award from a contractor who's
out of business. And I think most of you already
know just by the way I said that what happens.
But we're going to take a short break and when
we come back, we'll talk some more on News Talk
eleven thirty wisn Talk eleven thirty wis in returning from
(12:54):
a break. It's Nick the Construction Group. They gave me
a bell here to play with and they said don't
overuse it, so I'm I'm going to just use it
once in a while. We're happy to be here today.
We are talking about a Facebook post that we put up,
but I just want to shoot out a little advertisement
before I get started. If you're thinking about a remodeling
project and kind of germane to what we're talking about today,
(13:14):
you want a vetted contractor who's going to deliver what
we promise, you can give us a call. We are
Cursioner remodeling construction, kitchens, bathrooms, reck rooms, pretty much everything.
At Kursioner, we treat your home as if it were
our own. Check out our Better Business Bureau rating A plus.
For the last fifty years, only contractor in Wisconsin to
win the Better Business Bureau Torch Award for Ethics and
(13:36):
Integrity three times. No one else in our industry has
done that, so ask yourself why did that happen? We
have over seventy five regional, local, and national awards for
our work. Give us a call. Check out our Facebook
page cursionerink dot com. And if you're just tuning in,
we are talking today about our Facebook page. Lynna's been
managing that, and we're not only putting on a lot
(13:57):
of information and a lot of cool projects, but we're
all so attuned to what's going on in the industry
and recently a Mekwon couple feel as though they've got bulked,
bilked bulked builked, got taken advantage of and we're just
kind of talking about that. We didn't really look into
the case. I'm not sure exactly who's guilty, who's not
(14:20):
what happened, But you can take a look at that
on our Facebook page if you'd like. It's just been
posted on there the last couple of days. But we
wanted to talk about how to keep you safe from
at least try and keep you as safe as we
can from contractors who are looking to build homeowners. And
when we left, we were talking a little bit about
(14:40):
some of the safeguards. If you want to run through
that again, Lens, some of the safeguards you can do
to make sure you're contractor at least you've done some vetting,
I guess, is what I'm saying, So.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Right well, I mean again, you can have a great
they can send you great referrals of people who like
their jobs. They could be in business for a while
well or a short time. I mean, if they're a
short time doesn't mean they're bad contracts by any means.
You've got to start somewhere. I think the key things
that our red flags are if they might be ready
(15:11):
right away to do a job. Because again today in
this industry, everyone we know that our you know, reputation,
people who are reputable that we know as friends and
you know peers are busy. Well yeah, well I'm trying
to you know, and you're going to wait for a project.
And it's that's why I even said, you know, if
you're doing something for a patio, you should start planning
(15:34):
it now because the process takes a while and then
by springtime it's ready to break. And you don't call
someone up and say we have a graduation in June.
We you know, call us in May and say we
like a deck done by June, because that isn't good.
Even if we weren't busy, wouldn't happen. It's just there's
too much time involved in the whole process. But stepping back.
I think if they're available immediately, that could be a
(15:55):
red flag. If they're asking for all the money of
the project down or a large more than milestone amounts,
right right, I mean, I know there is some pivotal things,
but if you're giving all your money or a majority
of it before anything's done, that should be a red
flag to a consumer. You should really go why you
know the contract? You should. I mean, if it's a
(16:18):
short contract and it doesn't have a lot of details,
that could be a concern because that's the way you
can get around anything from the legal standpoint as far
as the contractor if they don't have specific things in there,
how do you know what you're going to be getting.
If it's not signed in you know, a legal document,
you have nothing to go back to and maybe talk
(16:39):
about that because that's kind of legal aspect, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
At the break we were talking the ramifications of this.
Even if you get even if all your PaperWorks in order,
all your selections are made, all your payments are documented,
and the guy absolutely sticks it to you and you
win the case, the odds of you getting your money
are slim to null. So you're going to have a
(17:03):
lot of legal bills. You're going to have a lot
of stress relay. This is supposed to be a fun
thing when you're improving your house, it's supposed to be
a fun thing, when you're putting on an additions, supposed
to be a fun thing home theater or rec room.
Now you get into this thing, you're stressed out. You
go all this through all this court, you get this
huge legal bill, and all of a sudden, now you
got this judgment. Well, I'm going to tell you something.
(17:25):
You might as well set it on a toilet paper roller,
because that's what it's worth. Because if the guy didn't
have the money to finish the job, and didn't have
the decency to finish your job the ethical behavior that's
required in this business, you're not going to get your money.
So when you go in and you choose the lowest bidder,
or when you go in and you choose a guy
who can get there right away, or you go in
(17:45):
and you give you more than half your money down,
you better set aside some money for the risk you're running.
Because I have seen it time and time. It's the
same old scams dusted off and brought out. And you
know I know that I sound hard corns, but I'm
so tired of seeing people getting taken. In my fifty
plus years in this business, I've seen the same stuff
(18:08):
happen dozens of time, and you know, people look dumbfounded.
If you have three bids on a kitchen and two
of them are at in the hundreds and one's at
sixty five, I would be very suspect of the person
with sixty five. I'm not saying that there aren't people
out there who maybe can get the job done. I
can't imagine that kind of disparity in the pricing. We
(18:31):
run on a fifteen percent margin.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Right, I mean I think most les, Yeah, I think
most companies don't have high margins.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
It's you can't.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah, it's too competitive.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yeah, it's very competitive. But when you find that one
low ball in there.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
And that's the reason I bring that up is because
on the Facebook page, again, if you're just tuning in,
we put this guy in there and it was a
thirty five thousand dollars bathroom. A thirty five thousand dollars
bathroom is entry level at best. So if you're doing
a master bath and you have any kind of a
shower arrangement with tiele and.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Tile, especially tiles outrageous.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
You know, our average bathroom is now between seventy five
and one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. I know
some of you are going, WHOA, but you know, get
the numbers. Find out the numbers, and we find that
we are if we get if they get four or
five bids, we're going to be in the middle. We're
not the high. So I mean that's another thing. If
(19:28):
you do your research, you should just look at pricing online.
I know that Handley Wood does the price versus value
breakdown online. You could get on there at Handley I
think it's Handley Publications or but if you if you
pull it up, you will see what the averages are
for decks bathrooms. You know, I have people talking to
me about deck the average deck. Can I do a
(19:49):
deck for thirty five thousand? Yeah, I'd call it more
of a stoop because you know, decks today are We've
done several decks over one hundred thousand dollars and it's
not because we're making more money, but materials have gone up.
You're using composites. There's all kinds of things in play, right,
So not to go off on any tangent one way
or another.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
But the reality of it.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Is you have to do your research, and it's a
tremendous amount of research on you before you even call
us in. And then you have to do research with us.
Because there used to be you know, I always say,
this used to be four or five colors of countertops.
Now there's four or five thousand. There used to be
three or four materials you had for Micah Correon, maybe
stone for the very hot, you know, wealthy. But today,
(20:32):
granted the way it's mind and the way it's manufactured,
almost anybody can afford it. How many different colors when
you walk into designs in marble, I mean, well on
the tile.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
And I think the biggest thing is that people. Again,
the Amazon and HGTV effect has been the worst and
the best. You know, I love watching HDTV. I love
the condensed version of watching something be renovated or even
clicking show, you know, I love that because you see
(21:02):
a process. But they the cost of a lot of
these jobs. Again, people are like, thirty five thousand isn't
a lot? Is a lot of money for a bathroom?
Well maybe, I mean, I'm not saying thirty five thousand
isn't a lot of money. I get it, you save
a lot, right, But in the scheme of things, when
you look at materials and you look at project you
look at all the things that go behind the scenes,
(21:23):
labor costs. You know, there's a lot of people in
this mix of getting there's electrician, plumbers, tile, you know, labor,
I mean, there's floring people. It's it's not just one thing.
It's a it's like making a recipe. So it's a
lot of components in there, a lot of moving parts.
But like I said, I mean HGTV, they have sponsors,
(21:45):
a lot of things are given free. So it's in
Canada that you know that Handley what is just Handley
would when you go on that website, not only just right,
they break it down by sectors because if you go
to California and you it's going to be much more
expensive than here. I mean you know that just by
the housing costs, I mean cost of living, So you
(22:06):
know you have to you have to look at where
was this being renovated. Was it in the Midwest, So
you know there's a lot of variables.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I think what you're saying is you've got to qualify
your information. So you know, we live in a particular region.
We have a scale of wages here, and so you
have to look in this region when you're looking at
comparison jobs. When you go on HDTV and they're doing
it in Canada and their codes aren't even the same
as ours, and oh you can we did this kitchen
for twenty three thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Sorry, not true.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I did a whole seminar and all kinds of research
on that, and it's not true because they're getting free
materials because of sponsorships from Home Depot and Lows and.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Other other criers. It's a show.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, it's a show. And then you can't get it
done in three weeks. It's not going to happen. I
can't edit the tape when I do your project, but
they can when they do that show. So those are
all things that you have to look at and get
the reality. And a good contractor is going to come
in and explain this to you. Somebody who's trying to
sell you something is going to come in and try
and sell you something, right.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Get you to sign them online.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
That day, right, right, And that's that's another thing. You
do have the right to think about it, and remember
you don't You don't have to sign anything now, and
any deal that's there now is still going to be
there tomorrow, if not through the company you're talking to
through another company. So you know, buyer beware, coveed empter
s Garpie deal, seize the teeth right, missus doubt fire
(23:34):
you remember that one.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
So you know.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
One of the things that Lynn put out on the
Facebook page is that if you have if you have
questions or you're wondering, you know, what's my next step,
We're happy to help you. It doesn't mean you have
to have us come out and bid the job or
or or have us, you know, get involved with anything.
We can just give you our advice on how to
do things and some of the some of the resources
(23:58):
available to you that you know. The Better Business Bureau
now I'm going to tell you this too. The Better
Business Bureau and NARY, the NBA, all of those are
good places to go, but none of them are good
places to depend solely on. So are there some bad
contractors in the NBA, I'm sure there are are. There
(24:19):
some bad contractors in NARRY. I'm sure there are. They
just haven't been caught or vetted. Yet another thing is
when when younger people start in this business, a lot
of times they're very good at what they do, but
they're not very good at business. And if they get
into a project because they lobid it and they're halfway
into it and they don't have the resources to finish it,
(24:40):
that's because they're good at what they do, they're at
their craft, they're just not good at the business aspect
of it. And if you think about it, a lot
of these newer companies popping up are coming from established
businesses that know the business end of it. And so
another thing is with the low bids, you have to
be careful with that.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
We almost out of time here, Greg just want to
I just want to say one thing. With everything you
do to vet, you know all the process and steps
we talked about, we can again you can ask us
questions online if there's more specific detailed to some specific project.
But I would say it also, I guess being a female,
I'd say trust your gut if something seems not you know,
(25:18):
too good to be true as they say, or you
just don't feel right about the pressure you're getting or
the questions or the way you're being pursued for signing
on the dotline. Wait, trust your gut. I say this
again as a female.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, and it's it's great, And you know to your point.
I know that the demographics in this business is the
female makes the decisions on the house most of the time.
So yeah, trust your gut, and I think that's a
great point. We're going to return again next week. I'm
not yes, I am sure. It's Adam Koker from What's Up.
He's going to be coming in and talking to us
(25:53):
about generators. So looking forward to seeing you all next week.
I guess hearing you all next week. Right, we don't
see anything on here
Speaker 4 (26:00):
On News Talk eleven thirty w I S N
When you need wisdom and advice. Seek out a guru
when you need wisdom and advice about remodeling and design.
Lock on and listen right now. And Nick the Construction
Guru here is award winning remodeling expert Nick Kerzner.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Talk eleven thirty wisn Nick the Construction Guru. Exciting day
today beside the snow, we have some tips for homeowners
thinking about remodeling projects. And I have my lovely wife here, Lynn,
and we're going to talk today about a Facebook post
that we put up on our page about a couple
in Mekwan who had a challenging event with another contractor.
(00:44):
Not so much that we're going to get into who
the contractor is or if you go online you can
find that on our posts, but just want to talk
about what happened and kind of how to avoid these
in the future. So Lynn, thanks for coming in today.
I know you're busy, but you're here good morning. So
tell us a little bit about what happened to this couple.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, I mean I post for our Facebook page and
I obviously peruse Facebook and Team j has a playset
you can go to for consumer complaints and then they
investigate and basic lightning light. I couldn't find it. Yes,
something it's kind of like for Contact SI.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, I don't want to I'm sure that TMJ four
isn't gonna be happy with me, but it is like
like Contact six.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, it's a consumer advocacy where they investigate on behalf
and kind of do some reporting. And basically they hired
a contractor. I don't know all the details, so that's
where I don't want to get in the minutia of
the specifics because it was a very short excerpt. I'm
sure there's more behind the scenes with both sides. But
they paid them. They didn't get a job that was
(01:51):
done correctly. There were some problems with the plumbing. Again
not to take any size, but and then they weren't
be able to get a resolution. They didn't get any
money back. They felt like they were just kind of
left tie and dry with a contractor.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Well, and the bottom line is is when you're getting
started with a remodeling project, it's supposed to be a
fun thing. It's you know you're going to after you
get the minutia, the pricing and all that figured out,
then it's fun and start. Time to start picking tile
and light fixtures and sinks and faucets. But when you
get into the middle of a project and things aren't
(02:28):
going the way they're supposed to be going. And in
this case, I think the contractor had more money than
he had work in the project.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
And again I have a feeling based on the conversation,
but I don't have any valid proof because again I
haven't sat down and talked to these people. It's just
based on this news reporting segment.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's just another one of those things that catch caught
our eye because we're in the business and we look
at this and you know, you wonder, why do people
pay all the money up front? I'm not sure that
was the case here, Or why do people get in
deeper into the money than they are into the project.
What is the vetting process that these people decided to do.
(03:08):
The one thing I am going to say, and if
you look at the post on our Facebook page, the
cost of the bathroom was suspect to me right away.
When you have a full bathroom remodel for thirty five
thousand dollars, I'm just going to tell you, and this
may drop some draws out there, but you're not getting
a full bathroom model for thirty five thousand dollars these
(03:29):
days anymore. So you know a lot of times people
will say, yeah, we've added them in the vetting is
while they were the low bitter you know.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Well.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And the other thing again, not to pick on anybody,
including these clients, these people that you know got felt
ripped off. One of the red flags that I heard
also if you listen to their thing is they picked
him because he was the quickest to get started. And
that's another red flag. So I mean, there's a lot
of red flags in the story without even knowing the
(03:59):
whole story. And that's where I think this conversation. You know,
and you've done seminars many times talking to consumers, and
you've gone on Contact six in the past with Katrina
Cravi and went after people who have done bad jobs,
yeah their front door, and then and also helped make
those customers new again by bringing in, you know, trusted
(04:21):
vendors like Tommy Eliota to make things right for jobs
that people didn't do right. So, you know, you have
a lot of experience working with the Ethics and Better
Business Bureau and helping mediate these kinds of things. Sometimes
it's bad people sometimes it's bad communication. Sometimes it's misunderstandings.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, you know, the key to this is don't be
a dummy. If you're a dummy, you're going to get
bad results. So just because a guy has a big,
flashy ad or has big wraps around his truck, that's
not why you go with that contractor you have to
look into this and see what's going on.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
One of the.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Dumbest things I heard on this particular post was that
they because he was the fastest this business. If you're good,
you're busy. So why would you want somebody who's not busy,
Because if you're good, you're busy. If you're no good,
you're not busy. That's just common lodge. That's fifth grade
math for me.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Well so, and I agree completely, But I know when
people get in the midst of wanting something done, you
know again it's the Amazon exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
And it doesn't work and remodeling. Yeah, and you know,
I'm on the Nary Ethics Committee and we're the worthy
We're the committee that does the arbitration and mediation if
there's a challenge between a member and a homeowner, and
more often than not, it's communication. But I have to
tell you a lot of times. The reasons that people
(05:49):
pick the contractors the dumbest two reasons is fast and cheap.
It's just dumb. You're going to take a risk doing that.
And I I when when I look at homeowners sitting
on the side of the table saying, well, they said
it could get there right away and we needed it
for a daughter's graduation, I want to just look at
them and go, you're dumb, because that's not how it works.
(06:10):
You have to vet first of all. The number one
criteria for me is how long has that company been
in business under the same name and ownership. That's number
one for me because they've been doing it a long time.
I've said it a million times if I've said it
once on this show and at seminars. If you are
(06:30):
in this business, there's no university. There's follow up certifications
through NARY, and there's training programs that you can go through,
but there's no established criteria and then a certificate at
the end that where you can say, Okay, I'm a remodeler.
We learn by making mistakes on people's houses. Sorry to
say that. So the longest that you've been the longer
(06:53):
you've been in business, the more mistakes you've made, the
more lessons you've learned.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
It's what we call paying tuition.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
So when you look at a contractor who's been in
business for three years and then you look at a
contractor who's been in business for fifty years, No, I'm
not going to make any bones about it. The fifty
year contractor is better than the three year contractor, and
you will be right making that decision. Ninety eight percent
of the time. When you look at the contractor's portfolio
(07:20):
as far as what they're doing, and you follow up
and talk to some customers, you're going to be able
to tell whether I mean, we were at one. I'm
not going to bring up their name. But out in Pewaukee,
the guys advertising all over Facebook. It's a husband wife team.
They're doing a lot of advertising on Facebook. And every
(07:41):
job we've been to, they've screwed up every single one
of them. And you know, why not ask the contractor
for somebody and then make the phone call.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
That's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I'll give out names of references and people will go okay,
and they think just because you're providing the references, that's good.
You're good now because you're not going to provide a
reference that's going to give you a bad rap. So
people say, well, at least they gave us some reference.
Call the people and ask them some questions, Ask the
right questions. What happened when there was a delay? How
were you, how were you notified by that? How was
(08:13):
the contractor's communication style? Things like that. You can gain
a lot from that. And I've said it a million times.
If I've said at once, remodeling is a short term marriage. Okay,
I didn't marry the first girl I dated, and neither
did any of you out there or the first guy
that you dated, because somewhere along the line they out here,
here's what one going.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I did.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
No, I'm just laughing. There is people who have that's
not completely true statement.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
But but okay, the Lion's shared.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
The people who got married and with the first person
they dated probably aren't married anymore. Okay, so that's another thing.
But what I'm saying is this isn't a marriage consoling class.
But I'm just saying, you know, it's you. You have
to have a certain community. I might be the right
guy for some people. I'm definitely not the right guy
for other people. And I already know that, and I
(09:01):
establish a communications style with people and I'll tell them
if I feel like it's not going to work between us.
I'm a control freak. I can't work for other control freaks.
So if you're a control freak, you don't want to
deal with cursion remodeling construction. That's just the way it is.
If you want to be guided through a process and
you want to be softly taken down that road, then
we're the right people.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
But I think and that's all those are val points.
I think the one thing that I think is important
for the consumer and people listening to understand is that,
for instance, this guy might have been a legit contractor
at one point, things happen. You know, maybe I don't
know again whether this is the truth of the story is,
but we've seen true true, right, But there's there has
(09:44):
been bad contrasts that taking people's money. We've seen it,
we've lived it, and we've reach they.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Started out with that intent, right, what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
But I think the things that I want to highlight
and that we should, you know, talk about is if
let's say it was thirty five thousand, we're going that's
pretty you for remodel. Now, thirty five thousand dollars a
lot of money to somebody, and it's a lot of
money in general. So it's not to pooh pooh, thirty.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Five thousand, five hundreds a lot of money.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah, but I'm saying so it's not even the cost,
it's that when did they pay these There should be milestones,
And this is one thing that I think people should understand.
If they let's say it's fifty thousand, let's say it's
one hundred thousand, you never give that full amount down
at the beginning, or even half of it down. There
should be and I think that's something that people should
understand and maybe explain that because I think that's a
(10:29):
critical element of It's real simple.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
You should never be deeper in money than they are
in labor. So in the beginning, there is going to
be an initial investment that you have to make because
I mean, I mean, at least from our perspective at
our company, I'm not going to finance the jobs. So
what I mean by that is if you're getting you know,
sixty thousand dollars worth of kitchen cabin, that's nine thousand
dollars worth of countertops and we're ordering that, we want
(10:56):
half that money upfront, just like anybody else would if
you're having a custom suit made or customs drapery, anything
like that. The cabinets are going to fit your house,
the countertops are going to fit your house. They're not
going to fit somebody else's, so we're stuck with them.
So you're stuck with them. Once those are installed, we
want the other half of the money, because that's we're
deep as deep into labor as you are.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
In the money.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So when we draft our sales agreement, it says in
there that at this point when drywall hits, keep in
mind when you do drywall, all your electrical stunt, all
your plumbings done.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Now there's a payment due.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Once you pay that payment, then we go on to
the next thing and maybe we put in all the
trim and the cabinets, and then there's a payment due.
And so you should feel comfortable, and I know, at
least with us, if you're uncomfortable with our milestones, we'll
work with you so that you're comfortable. Now, some people
in this business can't do that because they need your
down payment to make next week's payroll. And that's why
(11:51):
you want to deal with the company that's been in
business along time. I'm sorry, I'm a little hardcore on
this because I've seen it too much.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Right, No, And I think that's one of the biggest
things I think consumers should really think about. They shouldn't
get coherced into giving all their money because again, this
is this is usually when it goes south because they can't.
They don't have any recuperation if things don't go well,
if there's a misach, right, there's no leverage. You go
(12:17):
after them and they probably don't have the money, and
then they're bankrupt. And guess what. Here, here is the story,
the scenario we see over and over, and.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
You know, we're gonna take a short break. But when
we come back, I want to talk a little bit
about you know, people, lawyers, courts and all of that.
We're gonna I'm gonna tell you what the normal result
is when you get an award from a contractor who's
out of business. And I think most of you already
know just by the way I said that what happens.
But we're going to take a short break and when
we come back, we'll talk some more on News Talk
eleven thirty wisn Talk eleven thirty wis in returning from
(12:54):
a break. It's Nick the Construction Group. They gave me
a bell here to play with and they said don't
overuse it, so I'm I'm going to just use it
once in a while. We're happy to be here today.
We are talking about a Facebook post that we put up,
but I just want to shoot out a little advertisement
before I get started. If you're thinking about a remodeling
project and kind of germane to what we're talking about today,
(13:14):
you want a vetted contractor who's going to deliver what
we promise, you can give us a call. We are
Cursioner remodeling construction, kitchens, bathrooms, reck rooms, pretty much everything.
At Kursioner, we treat your home as if it were
our own. Check out our Better Business Bureau rating A plus.
For the last fifty years, only contractor in Wisconsin to
win the Better Business Bureau Torch Award for Ethics and
(13:36):
Integrity three times. No one else in our industry has
done that, so ask yourself why did that happen? We
have over seventy five regional, local, and national awards for
our work. Give us a call. Check out our Facebook
page cursionerink dot com. And if you're just tuning in,
we are talking today about our Facebook page. Lynna's been
managing that, and we're not only putting on a lot
(13:57):
of information and a lot of cool projects, but we're
all so attuned to what's going on in the industry
and recently a Mekwon couple feel as though they've got bulked,
bilked bulked builked, got taken advantage of and we're just
kind of talking about that. We didn't really look into
the case. I'm not sure exactly who's guilty, who's not
(14:20):
what happened, But you can take a look at that
on our Facebook page if you'd like. It's just been
posted on there the last couple of days. But we
wanted to talk about how to keep you safe from
at least try and keep you as safe as we
can from contractors who are looking to build homeowners. And
when we left, we were talking a little bit about
(14:40):
some of the safeguards. If you want to run through
that again, Lens, some of the safeguards you can do
to make sure you're contractor at least you've done some vetting,
I guess, is what I'm saying, So.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Right well, I mean again, you can have a great
they can send you great referrals of people who like
their jobs. They could be in business for a while
well or a short time. I mean, if they're a
short time doesn't mean they're bad contracts by any means.
You've got to start somewhere. I think the key things
that our red flags are if they might be ready
(15:11):
right away to do a job. Because again today in
this industry, everyone we know that our you know, reputation,
people who are reputable that we know as friends and
you know peers are busy. Well yeah, well I'm trying
to you know, and you're going to wait for a project.
And it's that's why I even said, you know, if
you're doing something for a patio, you should start planning
(15:34):
it now because the process takes a while and then
by springtime it's ready to break. And you don't call
someone up and say we have a graduation in June.
We you know, call us in May and say we
like a deck done by June, because that isn't good.
Even if we weren't busy, wouldn't happen. It's just there's
too much time involved in the whole process. But stepping back.
I think if they're available immediately, that could be a
(15:55):
red flag. If they're asking for all the money of
the project down or a large more than milestone amounts,
right right, I mean, I know there is some pivotal things,
but if you're giving all your money or a majority
of it before anything's done, that should be a red
flag to a consumer. You should really go why you
know the contract? You should. I mean, if it's a
(16:18):
short contract and it doesn't have a lot of details,
that could be a concern because that's the way you
can get around anything from the legal standpoint as far
as the contractor if they don't have specific things in there,
how do you know what you're going to be getting.
If it's not signed in you know, a legal document,
you have nothing to go back to and maybe talk
(16:39):
about that because that's kind of legal aspect, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
At the break we were talking the ramifications of this.
Even if you get even if all your PaperWorks in order,
all your selections are made, all your payments are documented,
and the guy absolutely sticks it to you and you
win the case, the odds of you getting your money
are slim to null. So you're going to have a
(17:03):
lot of legal bills. You're going to have a lot
of stress relay. This is supposed to be a fun
thing when you're improving your house, it's supposed to be
a fun thing, when you're putting on an additions, supposed
to be a fun thing home theater or rec room.
Now you get into this thing, you're stressed out. You
go all this through all this court, you get this
huge legal bill, and all of a sudden, now you
got this judgment. Well, I'm going to tell you something.
(17:25):
You might as well set it on a toilet paper roller,
because that's what it's worth. Because if the guy didn't
have the money to finish the job, and didn't have
the decency to finish your job the ethical behavior that's
required in this business, you're not going to get your money.
So when you go in and you choose the lowest bidder,
or when you go in and you choose a guy
who can get there right away, or you go in
(17:45):
and you give you more than half your money down,
you better set aside some money for the risk you're running.
Because I have seen it time and time. It's the
same old scams dusted off and brought out. And you
know I know that I sound hard corns, but I'm
so tired of seeing people getting taken. In my fifty
plus years in this business, I've seen the same stuff
(18:08):
happen dozens of time, and you know, people look dumbfounded.
If you have three bids on a kitchen and two
of them are at in the hundreds and one's at
sixty five, I would be very suspect of the person
with sixty five. I'm not saying that there aren't people
out there who maybe can get the job done. I
can't imagine that kind of disparity in the pricing. We
(18:31):
run on a fifteen percent margin.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Right, I mean I think most les, Yeah, I think
most companies don't have high margins.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
It's you can't.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah, it's too competitive.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yeah, it's very competitive. But when you find that one
low ball in there.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
And that's the reason I bring that up is because
on the Facebook page, again, if you're just tuning in,
we put this guy in there and it was a
thirty five thousand dollars bathroom. A thirty five thousand dollars
bathroom is entry level at best. So if you're doing
a master bath and you have any kind of a
shower arrangement with tiele and.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Tile, especially tiles outrageous.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
You know, our average bathroom is now between seventy five
and one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. I know
some of you are going, WHOA, but you know, get
the numbers. Find out the numbers, and we find that
we are if we get if they get four or
five bids, we're going to be in the middle. We're
not the high. So I mean that's another thing. If
(19:28):
you do your research, you should just look at pricing online.
I know that Handley Wood does the price versus value
breakdown online. You could get on there at Handley I
think it's Handley Publications or but if you if you
pull it up, you will see what the averages are
for decks bathrooms. You know, I have people talking to
me about deck the average deck. Can I do a
(19:49):
deck for thirty five thousand? Yeah, I'd call it more
of a stoop because you know, decks today are We've
done several decks over one hundred thousand dollars and it's
not because we're making more money, but materials have gone up.
You're using composites. There's all kinds of things in play, right,
So not to go off on any tangent one way
or another.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
But the reality of it.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Is you have to do your research, and it's a
tremendous amount of research on you before you even call
us in. And then you have to do research with us.
Because there used to be you know, I always say,
this used to be four or five colors of countertops.
Now there's four or five thousand. There used to be
three or four materials you had for Micah Correon, maybe
stone for the very hot, you know, wealthy. But today,
(20:32):
granted the way it's mind and the way it's manufactured,
almost anybody can afford it. How many different colors when
you walk into designs in marble, I mean, well on
the tile.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
And I think the biggest thing is that people. Again,
the Amazon and HGTV effect has been the worst and
the best. You know, I love watching HDTV. I love
the condensed version of watching something be renovated or even
clicking show, you know, I love that because you see
(21:02):
a process. But they the cost of a lot of
these jobs. Again, people are like, thirty five thousand isn't
a lot? Is a lot of money for a bathroom?
Well maybe, I mean, I'm not saying thirty five thousand
isn't a lot of money. I get it, you save
a lot, right, But in the scheme of things, when
you look at materials and you look at project you
look at all the things that go behind the scenes,
(21:23):
labor costs. You know, there's a lot of people in
this mix of getting there's electrician, plumbers, tile, you know, labor,
I mean, there's floring people. It's it's not just one thing.
It's a it's like making a recipe. So it's a
lot of components in there, a lot of moving parts.
But like I said, I mean HGTV, they have sponsors,
(21:45):
a lot of things are given free. So it's in
Canada that you know that Handley what is just Handley
would when you go on that website, not only just right,
they break it down by sectors because if you go
to California and you it's going to be much more
expensive than here. I mean you know that just by
the housing costs, I mean cost of living, So you
(22:06):
know you have to you have to look at where
was this being renovated. Was it in the Midwest, So
you know there's a lot of variables.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I think what you're saying is you've got to qualify
your information. So you know, we live in a particular region.
We have a scale of wages here, and so you
have to look in this region when you're looking at
comparison jobs. When you go on HDTV and they're doing
it in Canada and their codes aren't even the same
as ours, and oh you can we did this kitchen
for twenty three thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Sorry, not true.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I did a whole seminar and all kinds of research
on that, and it's not true because they're getting free
materials because of sponsorships from Home Depot and Lows and.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Other other criers. It's a show.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, it's a show. And then you can't get it
done in three weeks. It's not going to happen. I
can't edit the tape when I do your project, but
they can when they do that show. So those are
all things that you have to look at and get
the reality. And a good contractor is going to come
in and explain this to you. Somebody who's trying to
sell you something is going to come in and try
and sell you something, right.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Get you to sign them online.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
That day, right, right, And that's that's another thing. You
do have the right to think about it, and remember
you don't You don't have to sign anything now, and
any deal that's there now is still going to be
there tomorrow, if not through the company you're talking to
through another company. So you know, buyer beware, coveed empter
s Garpie deal, seize the teeth right, missus doubt fire
(23:34):
you remember that one.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
So you know.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
One of the things that Lynn put out on the
Facebook page is that if you have if you have
questions or you're wondering, you know, what's my next step,
We're happy to help you. It doesn't mean you have
to have us come out and bid the job or
or or have us, you know, get involved with anything.
We can just give you our advice on how to
do things and some of the some of the resources
(23:58):
available to you that you know. The Better Business Bureau
now I'm going to tell you this too. The Better
Business Bureau and NARY, the NBA, all of those are
good places to go, but none of them are good
places to depend solely on. So are there some bad
contractors in the NBA, I'm sure there are are. There
(24:19):
some bad contractors in NARRY. I'm sure there are. They
just haven't been caught or vetted. Yet another thing is
when when younger people start in this business, a lot
of times they're very good at what they do, but
they're not very good at business. And if they get
into a project because they lobid it and they're halfway
into it and they don't have the resources to finish it,
(24:40):
that's because they're good at what they do, they're at
their craft, they're just not good at the business aspect
of it. And if you think about it, a lot
of these newer companies popping up are coming from established
businesses that know the business end of it. And so
another thing is with the low bids, you have to
be careful with that.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
We almost out of time here, Greg just want to
I just want to say one thing. With everything you
do to vet, you know all the process and steps
we talked about, we can again you can ask us
questions online if there's more specific detailed to some specific project.
But I would say it also, I guess being a female,
I'd say trust your gut if something seems not you know,
(25:18):
too good to be true as they say, or you
just don't feel right about the pressure you're getting or
the questions or the way you're being pursued for signing
on the dotline. Wait, trust your gut. I say this
again as a female.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, and it's it's great, And you know to your point.
I know that the demographics in this business is the
female makes the decisions on the house most of the time.
So yeah, trust your gut, and I think that's a
great point. We're going to return again next week. I'm
not yes, I am sure. It's Adam Koker from What's Up.
He's going to be coming in and talking to us
(25:53):
about generators. So looking forward to seeing you all next week.
I guess hearing you all next week. Right, we don't
see anything on here
Speaker 4 (26:00):
On News Talk eleven thirty w I S N
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