Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show on David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. And you have found the place
where we talk about a state planning, elder law, real
estate and business law. So if you have a question,
in comment, or concern about any of that stuff, drop
me a line David at Davidcarrier Law dot com, a
David at Davidcarrier Law dot com, or you can call
(00:57):
right now six one, six seven seven or twenty four
twenty four. That's six one, six seven seven four, twenty
four to twenty four to get your question, comment or
concern on the air. Now, when we started the show
an hour ago, I was talking about how do we
achieve all the good stuff? Right? You think, oh, government's
(01:20):
evil or something that's the government's not evil hijack, that's
for sure, and it does a lot of stuff that's
not so smart, but but it does some things very well, okay,
and maybe we should accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative,
and you know, get rid of mystery in between, as
(01:40):
Bing Crosby so notably, so melodiously once advised, all right,
accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative, and the positive is
in my opinion when it comes to the whole long
term care thing, right, the long term care thing is
our programs. And there's two of them right now that
(02:02):
use your tax dollars that you paid in that you
can qualify for. All right, you yeah, regular folks can
qualify for these. You gotta do it right. It's not easy.
I'm not saying it's simple, okay, but the but the
result see and if this, if this, uh, you know
what are they calling it the Department of Government Efficiency?
(02:23):
If they ever figure out how to work this thing,
you're gonna decrease. I'm not saying you're gonna empty long
term care facility. You're not going to That's not gonna
happen because there are people who actually need that level
of care. And there's I've seen all kinds of numbers
about people who are hitting sixty five, you know, the
baby boomers hitting those gateway ages, right, sixty five, seventy whatever,
(02:46):
and it's it's a fifteen thou seventeen thousand dollars, seventeen
thousand dollars, seventeen thousand people a day are hitting those
gateway ages. Okay, so for a very long time we're
gonna have that issue. And we weren't set up for
it because we didn't have that many old people. But
guess what, you know, every day that goes by, you know,
(03:09):
it's more of us. We're out here and anyway, we're
going to need the long term care facilities, right, but
that doesn't mean that long term care facility is where
you want to be. Most people don't. And the good
news is that there are existing programs where we have
a base of experience. We have since the sixties. We'll
(03:31):
say it started the seventies or like sixty eight, sixty nine,
something like that. So let's just say the seventies to now.
That's thirty plus twenty four. That's fifty four years of
experience delivering what people actually want. And so you have
to ask yourself, why aren't we delivering what people actually want? Well,
because it's government, it gets confusing. We were the private
(03:53):
public partnership sort of thing going on with these programs. Okay,
but they work very well, and this would be like
an obvious choice, it seems to me to drive down
the cost of long term care. Now here's what I'm
talking about that there's two programs that we really really like.
One is called My Choice or Waiver, the Waiver program,
(04:15):
it's a Medicaid program where you got to qualify for Medicaid. Yes,
you do. The other program is called PACE Program of
All Inclusive Care for the Elderly. That's why they call
it PACE Program for the p All Inclusive for the
A Care for the c E is elderly. Sorry, they
have to come over with an ey word. And to
qualify for this. You don't have to be elderly. It's
(04:36):
fifty five or older, right, if you're over fifty five.
Have you ever just detour here? Have you ever read
the paper where they talked about some elderly person getting
robbed or mugged or you know, I don't know, something
bad happened to an elderly person and then you find
out they're your age. I hate when that happens. Anyway,
(05:01):
Paces for the Elderly, yeah, if you're more than fifty five.
I guess you're elderly now whatever. These programs are designed
to keep you at home. And my point is the
reason it's so important is because to be aware of
these things and to take advantage of them, okay, is
(05:23):
because what happens is you've got spouses caring for spouses,
all right, and that is where family members caring for
family members too. Okay. It's not just husbands and wives
caring for one another, it's also family members. And the
thing is, as you care for them. This is especially
true with spouses. You wear out your spouse, Okay. They
(05:46):
age because they take on the full burden of caring
for you, all right, and it's not particularly good for them.
They don't get a break. There's no end in sight.
It's not like raising it. You know, you got a baby.
So I got another grand kid recently, and oh my god,
you know the kid is like, now, I never realized
(06:08):
there was that much work. Oh there's always something. It's like, yeah,
now you know, good for you, So now you get it.
That's why everyone should have kids, just to teach them
the meaning of humility. Anyway, the point is that the
burden increases on the spouse to the point where it's
(06:29):
damaging the spouse's health. You would think, you would think
that if you had a spouse with dementia or disability
or some sort that you know, oh, they're the ones
who are going to die first. It ain't necessarily so.
In fact, fifty percent of the time it's the caregiver's
spouse dies first. That is very very common. It's you know,
(06:54):
it's it's always more than forty percent. You know, depending
on the survey you look at, it's always more than
forty percent. The caregiver dies first. And then what are
you going to do with the person you've been caring for?
And the answer is off to the nursing home. Well,
what if you took better care of yourself? Right, what
if the burden wasn't all on you? And that's what
(07:16):
these programs do without it doesn't cost you any money
because you already paid the money called your taxes. Right,
these are tax supported programs, meaning you paid for it.
Remember working you Remember that wasn't that long ago. Remember
how they're still taxing your Social Security? Okay, you're still
involved in that. Great, you're the one paying for it,
but you don't take advantage of it. Why. I don't know.
(07:39):
You feel bad about it. I don't know. It's like
you take your Social Security, don't you, Well, oh yeah,
I paid for it. Yeah, and you take your Medicare
right right, I paid for that. Well, you paid for
this too. It's just that they make you jump through
so many freaking hoops to get to it that you know,
you get this notion that it's somehow it's not for you,
(08:00):
But it absolutely is, okay. I mean, we've done this
thousands of times for regular families just like yours, right
to get the benefits. So now you lift the burden
off the caregiver's spouse because with PACE up to and
waiver is a very tailored program. It just depends on
what you need at home. It's not twenty four to
seven care. None of these things are okay because if
(08:23):
you need twenty four to seven care, nursing home, assisted living,
memory unit, that kind of thing, if you need the
twenty four seven care, and some people do, but most
people don't. All right, most people ninety five percent of
PACE recipients are at home and they die at home.
Isn't that the idea?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
All?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Right? Live, yes, live, and then when it's time time
to check out, all right, you know you're it's from home. Okay,
it's unnecessary the residents, the over use of residential care
(09:02):
because there's no you know, because people aren't aware of
the help, or because the kids get more, the kids
get worn out, the family resources get worn out. Well,
it doesn't have to be that way, especially if we've
hung on to your life savings. So if you qualify
for one of these programs and your life savings are
(09:22):
still intact because they only cover five days a week,
what about the weekends. Oh guess what, I still have
my life savings to cover my long term care on
the weekends. Now it works. Now you don't have to
go to assisted living, memory care, skilled nursing, whatever. Sometimes
you need that stuff, and if you need it, okay,
(09:42):
you need it, it's as simple as that. But most
of the time people don't. And what happens is you
got people who would be operating at a fairly high
level socialized engage, doing stuff, watching TV all day, right
because the assisted living facilit that's all they got time for.
And you're taking a bed from somebody who could really
(10:04):
need it. Right now, there's no bed. What are we
gonna do? You know, fluttering around like that, Well you
could if you took out the It just took the
people out who could be at home with help, which
is what PACE does. Takes you out of there. You're
at home, okay, And it's all inclusive. It's transportation, it's meds,
(10:26):
there's no code pays, there's no donut holes. Everything's covered right, Transportation,
all the whole nine yards. And if you get to
the point your spouse gets to the point where you
absolutely positively can't stay at home and you must go
to that's the other five percent of PACE, The other
five percent of paces. Well, if you really got to it,
there's nothing we've got that makes it possible for you
(10:49):
to stay at home. And we've got to do residential care.
We'll do residential care. They also do recipite, so you know,
you get you're caring for your spouse most of the time.
Take a week off. Why not. You're listening to the
David Carriers Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
In this hour of the David Carrier Show is pro boni,
So call in now at seven seven twenty four. This
is the David Carrier shown.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. You know, it is Thanksgiving and thereabouts,
and you might be watching this at I'm listening to
this at some other point. Well, it still applies, you
know what. The Thanksgiving season, holiday season. My families get together.
Oh oh well, and you can always call us if
(11:58):
you've been saving up question six one six seven seven
four twenty four twenty four. That's six one six seven
seven four twenty four twenty four. Or email me David
at David Carrier Law dot com. If you want videos
on some of this stuff again, go to the website
David Carrier Law dot com. You can sign up for
a workshop. There, there's videos for you. There's all kinds
(12:21):
of amazingly wonderful stuff. Oh god, it's like Santa Claus
every single day of the week when you go to
the website. Anyway, the point is that at this time
of year, families get together. And one of the concerns
that many folks have, many people have is that when
(12:42):
the kids shut up, when you you know, you go
into the room and the kids all shut up, Right,
what were you guys talking about? Hats, pumpkins? Whatever? Oh,
we were talking about pumpkin buye. I mean anyway, No,
they're talking about you know, what are we gonna do
with mom? What are we gonna do dad? You know,
they're missing a step whatever. And and sometimes it's like that,
(13:06):
and sometimes it's very frank and honest and all the
rest of it. There's all kinds of different ways that
families approach these things. But the key is that I
would like to add to the conversation is the traditional
ways of doing things, the ways that you've heard about.
And I we work with a lot of financial advisors,
and I know of other attorneys, and I'm sure they're
(13:27):
all wonderful people, but the advice you get is routinely terrible,
terrible advice. Oh you got to spend down, Oh you
got to do this, Oh you should do that. You know,
either they ignore the problem or the solutions that they
offer are not what they ought to be. I mean,
in my opinion, Okay, and you know I've only been
(13:47):
added for what thirty four years, so I guess you
know it's my opinion. Work. You know, literally tens of
thousands of families, we've worked with tens of thousands more
who decide to take an other path and going the
road to perdition. But anyway, the point is that as
(14:09):
you have these conversations right, you need to include in
the conversation. I would say two or three ideas. One
is you need to do something something right. We do
all these workshops. We've got the website Davidcarrier law dot com.
There's great stuff on the website. Right. That is not
(14:30):
what you're gonna hear everywhere else. Yes, that's true. You're
gonna hear it everywhere else. And so are we the
voice crying in the wilderness. As Mike, I've been told
that more than one time by clients. Oh you're you know,
you're the voice crying in the wilderness. Everyone else is
telling them someone else. And well, okay, okay, you know
what you want me to do about it? It's you know,
this is what works. This is what actually works. Has
(14:53):
worked to preserve independence, to preserve autonomy, to preserve life
saving you know, think about you know, back in the day,
there was a time when you were broke. Think about
your options. When you were broke, Think about your options now. Okay,
well you may still live like you're broke. I understand
(15:14):
that frugality and all the rest. Okay, but you don't
have to which way was better where you made that
you're making a decision to live a certain way or
you had no option. And the problem is the way
the whole long term care thing is set up is
to give you no options, deny you the options that
(15:34):
I believe you've earned through your lifetime by life savings
and paying for the house and all the rest of
the stuff that you've built up over time. You know,
that's all disqualifying when it comes to what are you
going to what your choices are going to You don't
have choices. It's like here, this is what we got
for you. Well, it doesn't have to be that way.
(15:56):
So when you're talking about what do we do with
mom and dad, do not be thinking that long term
or when you're thinking yourselves. When you're having this conversation
with the kids, you know, and they say, well, you know,
this is a very nice place, and it's like, well,
I want to stay here, and here's how we're going
to do it. We've got the pace program, we've got
(16:16):
the we've got the Waiver program, also also called My Choice,
which delivers services to the home. They say, well, we've
got too much money to qualify for that. The answer is,
I bet you don't. I bet you don't. I bet
you there's a way that if you rearrange your finances appropriately, right,
(16:37):
you rearrange your finances appropriately, you'll qualify. Most people do,
almost everybody does. That's just the way it is. That
these programs which you paid for are available, okay. And
so if you're having the conversation, you know, and it
frequently it comes up like this mom's killing herself taking
(16:58):
care of that. You know, that's all weren't out careen
from mom. We don't have the time with our own kids,
our own careers and everything else in order to we
can't be here twenty four to seven, three sixty five.
We can't do that. What are we going to do? Oh? Well,
you know there's this place and you know, mam will
be in the memory care and that'll have a little
(17:19):
apartment there and that'll be great. You know, that residential
care thing, which neither one of them want, all right,
they want to stay in their home, okay, And it's
typically very expensive. So you sell the house and you
buy the contract over there. Well, if that's appropriate, if
that's what you choose, to do understanding what the options are.
(17:41):
God bless you, go ahead do it, no problem for that.
But what what absolutely drives me around the bend is
where people have options and they do things and they
convince themselves though this is the only thing available and
they're operating on a small fraction of the information. Now,
(18:02):
I'm not saying that everybody doesn't tell you to do it.
It's it's the received wisdom. It's the Oh, everybody knows
that this is what you do, and Smith's did it,
and look how happy they are. And it's like that, Yeah,
they pace the smile on their face when you visit
them in their little colored when you're visiting. You know, oh,
let's go to the day room. It's wonderful whatever. Okay,
(18:25):
I'm not saying that. And people can adapt. Right if
that was the best that was available, and you're convinced
that that's the best available, you'll make the best of it.
That's who you are, Okay. But what I'm telling you
is you can stay home if it depending that. Sometimes
you can't, But most of the time, the vast majority
(18:45):
of the time, people who get placed didn't have to
get placed. Okay, there are things that you can do,
but you need to, you know, the sooner you get
involved in this stuff, the sooner you take it seriously,
then the less burn, the less wear and tear on
the other spouse, on the caregiver's spouse. Do you see, right?
(19:06):
Why should they die as often as the as the
one who needs care. They shouldn't. They're killing themselves keeping
the other one out of the nursing home. And when
they finally succeed in killing themselves by providing the care,
then what whoops? Off you go to the long term
care facility and it's like, well, wait a second. If
you had gotten intervention early on, early on, intervention, okay,
(19:28):
and you got care for your spouse so you weren't
totally frazzled and beat up all the time by everything, right,
you'd live longer. Maybe you bury them. Sorry, I mean,
it happens. Somebody's gonna die first, right, but you can
have years afterwards if you do it correctly, you know.
I mean, yeah, my dad survived my mom with ten
(19:50):
twelve years something like that, Okay, not that he wanted to,
I mean he was you had gone first or whatever,
but those were ten very important twelve very important years
for him for the rest of the family. And if
he had, if he had worn himself out, he wouldn't
have made it. But he did because he did these things.
(20:10):
And that's what I'm saying. Okay, these things are double.
So when you're having the conversation around the punkin pie
and all the rest of it, and don't hide in
the kitchen, you know that kind of thing, you have
it right out of the right, out in the open,
all right, forget up, don't talk about the election, don't
do that. Talk about mom and dad. That's much better.
(20:31):
There's stuff there you can actually do something about. Be
very positive, okay, instead of instead of going over that,
you know. So when it comes to politics, let's talk
about it instead of my mom and dad, but let's
do it in a way that that supports them, you know,
with the minimum of confusion. Okay, you've been listening to
the David Carriers Show. I'm David Carrier. Your family personally because.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
You dreaming so took you in your favorite night life.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
David's got the how to you're looking for. Just call
seven seven, twenty four, twenty four. This is the David
Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. On David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Now is the time to give
us a call sixty one six seven seven four, twenty
four twenty four six one six seventh. Then for twenty
four to twenty four if you have a question, comment,
or concern about a state planning, elder law, real estate
or business law. Now I'm giving you a little handy
(21:40):
hints on how to navigate the Thanksgiving really any kind
of family gathering. So you know, because some people, you know,
I'm sure at least three or four people over the
last twenty years of listening to some of the podcasts,
so I mean, they treat the radio show as a podcast.
So we even want to limit it to just the
thanksg season. It works anytime you're you're talking about folks.
(22:03):
So here's the first thing. You know, be honest and
upright about it, right, don't hide in the kitchen and
then lie with you're what you're you know, when you
talk about it, and when you talk about placing mom
or dad, because they have needs, right, understand that there
is a way for them to stay in the house,
retain their life savings, retain their autonomy, to get socialization.
(22:24):
You know, here's the thing. Here's the thing too, very important.
Whenever we talk about the stuff across the table with kids, they're, oh,
mom and dad will never do that. Oh, they just
like being the loan or maybe you know like this,
like they'll reject the idea of going to the senior
center or whatever. And the the notion is, oh, you know,
(22:46):
they don't really want to talk to people, and you
know they're very private people and stuff like that. That's
what the kids say, right, And what you don't understand,
kids is it's not that your mom and dad don't
want to talk. It's not that they don't want to
talk and relate and socialize. They just don't want to
talk to you. Okay, you're the kids. What have they
(23:07):
got to say, right, you know, and you've all got
you've got all your good ideas. They want somebody who's
going through what they're going through, whether it's aches and
pains or you know what the doctor said about this
or that, and they want to complain about their kids
and brag on their grandkids and stuff like that. And
they can't do that with you. All right, you're the kids,
and they can't take advice from you either. That's the
(23:29):
other thing. You see all these strategies you know, how
to talk to your parents about whatever. The fact of
the matter is, nine times out of ten, you can't
talk to your parents about this stuff because they don't
believe you because you're the kid. It has nothing to
do with the validity of what you're saying, the accuracy,
the appropriateness. You can you can, you know, package it
(23:53):
up however you want. You know, mom and dad are
still gonna reject it because you're they wiped your butt
back in the day. Okay, you're the kid. It's it's
very very it's very difficult. Okay, that's why you should
give him this podcast, and you know I'll tell them.
And then and the the funniest thing, I don't know,
(24:14):
funny but frustrating, whatever you want to call it. Uh,
it was when the when the kids come in with
the parents, right, and and then this respouses too, and
I'm laying out you know, I'm sharing the wisdom. You know,
here's what you do. And the the the one who
(24:35):
brought the other one in, gets all annoyed, right, they
get all pissed off. And it's like I've been telling
you that for years and now you're listening to this guy.
Who the hell is this guy? What does he know?
You know? But now now you're listening to it and
my advice in that situation, and that happens, right, But
that's not because there's there's no judgment there about the
(24:58):
good advice that you offered. Okay, you just got to
understand that they can't hear it from you because of
the relationship, right, and you've got to back off, back
off a little bit. If you're getting what you want,
if you're getting what's appropriate. You saw it, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I get it. You saw it years ago. You saw
(25:19):
it years ago, and now it's finally happening. Well, you
know when the Israeli Israelites finally found the Promised Land
after wandering in the desert for forty years, you know,
it was like, yay, we finally found the Promised Land.
This is great. They weren't like, ah, crap, I think
I'll go back to the desert for forty years because
it took forty years, you know what I mean. Celebrate
(25:41):
the wind, Take the wind. You were right, Yes, you
were right. Now here's another thing, handy in a lot
of people think that the parents are you know, getting
there okay, yeah, adult or whatever. And the reason you
(26:02):
think they're that way is because they can't hear all right.
They won't wear the freaking hearing aids. They may even
have the hearing aids in okay, but they still won't.
They still won't turn them on because I don't need
hearing aids. Okay, So don't think it's dementia if it's
(26:23):
really just Dad won't turn on his hearing age or
adjust them correctly or something like that. The hearing aid
is the first. Dehydration, urinary tract, infection and hearing aids
are three things that frequently are mistaken for dementia and
are not. You know, Make him eat a banana and
drink a bunch of water, he'll be fine. You get
(26:46):
him the whatever for the UTI, they'll be fine. Turn
on their hearing aids, he'll be fine. Okay, Always assume that,
always assume, always check for those three things before you're
really concerned about the dementia. We've got Tom on the line. Hello, Tom,
Welcome into the David Carrier sell.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
Aeriel that I would like to lay out for you
to see where the best situation is to help these
friends of ours. Really, okay, now I'm standing mind, Okay,
husband and wife, elderly husband and wife. The wife needed
(27:25):
a full time home care, and the husband worked himself
till he passed away just recently, I mean like within
last week. So the husband passed away, the wife is home.
They took out a loan on their home equity loan
(27:46):
on their home to help pay for this care that
they were getting for the wife, And so they only
have maybe half the equity that's left in their home
and maybe twenty thirty thousand dollars cash, and the wife
now wants to stay home. Still, But it sounds like
(28:07):
a scenario you were just talking about where I don't
know what their options are paced or whatever else, because
they don't have a lot of money for home care.
He was a vet. I don't know if that helps
to the scenario at all. And they both of course
have some Social Security coming in, so what are the
(28:27):
options to keep her home?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
So what we would have done would have done back
in the day before he passed. If we're looking at
that as a scenario, you can get people qualified with
almost unlimited assets. When one of them dies, we can
save everything for the other one. There's a way to
do that. Obviously we're past that. We're past that point.
(28:51):
The PACE program will come out, pick her up five
days a week, personal hygiene, lighthouse keeping every medical need
that she has. Now she's been ridden, then a residential
care facility is the place. But if she's not been ridden,
now she can be in a wheelchair, what have you?
You still want to get evaluated for PACE. What are
the deficits? What deficits does she have at this point?
(29:14):
You know, what is the what is the problem?
Speaker 4 (29:17):
She she is bedridden, so she needs to have. But
they've been having basically not I don't know, I was
twenty four or seven care, but they were having people
coming in. It was very expensive. They're having people coming
into the house to forst several hours in the morning
to get get her up in bed and fed, toileted
(29:41):
and so forth, and then come back in the afternoon
or whatever and come back in the evening, you know,
that sort of thing like that. But she was has
been home and does not was actually in a home
for a while and then didn't want to be there
anymore and checked out and came. Sure, now they're eating
(30:01):
up all their savings and actually took out home equity
loan on their house. So there there half their house
has been equity has been eating up paying for this stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Right, So so what you'd want to what we'd want
to do is just evaluator. The at home care program
wouldn't be paid. It would be waiver because that provides
services in the home. Now, it's not twenty four to
seven care. And if someone's bed ridden, you know, it'd
be worth it'd be worth looking into, you know. That's
that's what I would say in a case like that.
(30:37):
But generally speaking, if someone is bedridden, then that's what
a long term care facility is. Generally residential long term
care is generally for Tom Just hang on through the
through the ads, okay, and well we'll wrap this up
at the top of the hour. Okay, all right, all right,
just hang on. You've been listening to the David Carrier
Show on David Carrier, your Family's person Attorney.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Just one law night, and David's working and working and
taking your calls.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Now.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your Family's Personal Attorneys. Go to the website Davidcarrier Law
dot com. At David Carrier law dot com. You can
sign up for one of our free life plan workshops
Three Secrets, where we tell you what's really going on,
I encourage you to do something about it. Now we're
(31:47):
talking with Tom. Tom's got some friends, husband died, wife
is bedridden, and the question is what can we What
can we do at this point that's useful? Well, the
first thing we would do is a value read her
for what's called waiver. Waiver is a medicaid program. They're down,
They've already spent all their life savings. They've taken a
(32:09):
line of credit against the house for half of the
value of the house, and a good deal of that
has been already been spent on care to keep keep
the wife at home. And now the question is, now
that he's passed, what do we do now because he
can no longer provide the services that he was providing.
This is the situation typically when we've got, you know,
(32:33):
a caregiver, spouse dies first, Okay, what do we do?
What do we do now? So Tom, am I summoning
that up? Would you say that's accurate?
Speaker 4 (32:42):
Yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Okay. So you've got two options. One is waiver will pay.
And if waiver pays, okay, then you want to the
money that's been borrowed, we'd put back in the line
of credit it and then continue to borrow from the
liner credit in order to keep the you know, to
(33:06):
supplement what waiver would provide, understanding that eventually that well
is going to run dry and then we may have
to sell the home and go to long term care
or or here's an alternative, we sell the home. Now,
Now do they have kids? Does the mom have kids?
Speaker 4 (33:28):
One child? I guess that isn't around, but probably will
come around. Okay, if there's something to get.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah, so let's say, so what is your relationship? Here
is a type relationship or whatever?
Speaker 4 (33:45):
Yeah, just just my my daughter actually was really good
friends and she's trying to she's trying to help them
out and so she's been doing whatever she can do
to help them. And we know them then, but only
through our daughter, not you.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
So here's the thing, here's the thing that can be done.
And we I don't think we've done it with friends.
I think we've always done this with family. And so
you need someone who needs long term care, right, and
you can't provide the services at home. Anymore. Is the
lady older that we're talking about, the patient?
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Yeah, yeah, So so far they've been able to get
people to come in to help take care of her,
but it's too expensive. They can't. They've been going in
again in the hall.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
So right, so Waiver could help and keep her in
the house. What if we run the numbers and the
numbers don't work out, so we can't keep her in
the house anymore, But there's still some value in the homestead.
What we have done in the past is we'll sell
the homestead. Okay, Now, under Medicaid, you're allowed to have
(34:50):
a replacement homestead. So let's say we clear one hundred
thousand dollars on the sale. She goes into long term care.
She does go into long term care, the living probably
what have you, because she's been ridden. If we can't
we can't afford it anymore. We can't pay it privately.
Waiver won't provide enough services to keep her at home.
(35:11):
So we're looking at the worst case scenario. Now, okay,
So what we do is we sell the home and say, well,
now she's got cash, they're going to take the cash. Well,
what we do is we find somebody usually it's a kid.
But if they're close friends, whatever, we find someone, you're
allowed to have a contract for purchase of a replacement
(35:33):
homestead and put off the closing on that replacement homestead
for entire year. So we agreed to sell a life estate.
Let's just say, let's say your daughter has a house,
or somebody's got a house. You sell a life estate
in the house, not the remainder interest, but the life estate.
(35:53):
And you do that when you sell the homestead, because
I got to pay off that loan. Otherwise, I've got
to keep paying interest on the loan, and I've got
to make payments on the loan. So now she goes
into she goes into the assisted living or the skilled nursing.
She's on waiver and assisted living, she's on full fledged
Medicaid in skill nursing. But now the bills are getting paid.
(36:15):
Now she's getting the care that she needs. But she'd
rather have a private room, she'd rather have something else. Okay, fine,
if I sell the house and I just give them
the money, there isn't any cushion, there's no money left.
She can only have two thousand dollars, but I've got
one hundred thousand dollars, right, and I'm holding that in reserve.
(36:36):
I'm holding that in reserve for the year right to
buy a replacement homestead. Now I can buy a life estate.
I don't have to buy the whole thing. I can
buy a fractional interest in somebody who's willing to help
us out. Right, So the person who likes this lady
wants to help out whatever sells her a fractional interest
(36:59):
in a life estate in her own home. Now, your daughter,
let's say it's your daughter. She sells her a fractional
interest in her home. Now, your daughter has one hundred
thousand dollars. When this lady dies, the life estate is gone, evaporates.
The daughter owns the house free and clear, just as
she ever did. But in the meantime, she's got one
hundred thousand dollars, right, and she's not interested in one
(37:22):
hundred thousand dollars. She's interested in helping out this person.
So great, she's got one hundred thousand dollars to get
her a private room. She's got one hundred thousand dollars
to get this lady whatever else she may need. Now,
you can't put this together so that there's an obligation
there that has to be founded in love and concern
(37:43):
and all the rest of it. If I've got that
kind of relationship, what makes which makes it reliable? Okay,
you know, I've got some reliability've got some faith and
confidence this is actually going to happen. Then the legal
side of things is we're buying the life estate. So
now someone I trust and love and have concern for
(38:04):
and has concern for me, now has the proceeds from
the sale of the house. They qualify for the Medicaid
benefits that they have earned by paying their taxes. Right,
And I'm not Remember I said money is choices. I've
still got my money. I've still got the proceeds from
the sale of the house to pay to the long
(38:24):
term care facility for hair dressing, for an additional aid,
for a shower every day instead of every week, for
a private room, for whatever else you know may be
available to increase this person's quality of life without you know,
without just you know, having to go out the window
(38:48):
to pay the base rate. I already paid the base
rate through my Medicaid, through my taxes. Okay, good, I
got the base rate, but I want more because husband
and I worked, We saved, and we bump up, bump.
That's a way to do it. But the only way
that works, the only way that I'm describing works is
when you have that bond of faith confidence. Usually it's
(39:12):
that's why. Usually it's with the kid. Well it's always
been with the kids so far. But if you've got
someone you know, if your daughter has that relationship with
these people, is willing to do this stuff, it can
be set up in such a way. See lots of
times we've got people where the main concern is leaving
money to the kids. There's them. You can call me
(39:34):
at the call me the office, all right, three six
one eighty four six six three six one eighty four hundred.
I can explain it more for you. If your life okay,
to the Baby Carrier Show, you bet your tom you've
been missing to the Navy Carrier Show, I'm baby carrier
in your family's person of all the time.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. A lively
discussion addressing your questions and concerns, but not legal advice.
There is a big difference. So when making decisions that
affect your family, your property, or yourself, the best advice
is to seek good advice specific to your unique needs.
If you missed any of today's show, or would like
additional information about the law offices of David Carrier, please
(40:27):
visit Davidcarrier law dot com.