Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hello and welcome to the David Carrier Show on David Carrier.
Your family's personal attorney. And you have found the place,
you lucky people, You have found a place where we
talk about a state planning, older law, real estate and
business law. Give us a call, went on just six one,
six seven seven four twenty four twenty four. We'll get
(00:53):
your question, comment or concern on the air. That is,
if you have a question, comment, or concern about things
that don't upset anybody, because if you say things that
upset people, then they get upset. And we don't want
to do that, do we. Oh no, oh no, we
don't want to upset anybody. Well unless we do, which
does happen anyway. Six one, six seven seven four twenty
(01:15):
four twenty four. That's the number to call if you'd
like to have if you have a question about estate planning.
You know that's will's trust and probate. If you're warning
about elder law, which is the how do we hang
on to your stuff? For you? Right, how do we
hang out to your stuff? That's a good question, right,
how do we hang on to it? Well, that's elder law,
(01:38):
the estate planning part. That's how you don't I won't
explain that. That's crap over your family when you die
and then that good. You know that's bad. You don't
want to do that. It's what estate planning's about, right,
how you don't leave a mess, don't leave problems. But
and that's important. Most people say, oh, that's the most
(01:59):
important thing. Okay, soybody says thing. Right. You know what
people don't think is important. They don't think it's important
to hang on to their stuff while we were alive.
They're more than happy to give it to the nursing home.
They just don't want to give it to the government
when they die through probate. Can you imagine that? It's true? Though,
And so elder law is the part that nobody really
cares about. I care nobody designed to be a parent
(02:23):
that cares about, which is taking are yours spouse while
they're still alive? Yeah, yeah, you're pushing up daisies. What
about her? And don't call me sexist because it usually
is her anyway, what about her? You know, we we
spend all the money on your long term care and
now what's left nothing? Is that what you really meant
when you said, you know, to death to this part? Yeah?
(02:44):
Right anyway? Six one, six, seven, seven, four, twenty four,
twenty four. Also, if you have a question about real estate,
real estate right, there isn't any of it to buy,
and it's all super expensive and has absolutely nothing to
do with the fact that Wall Street swooped in and
absolutely cornered the market after the two thousand and eight crash,
and every opportunity since then when housing prices have dipped,
(03:07):
the big investors have swooped in and bought all the
houses that were available. This has nothing to do with
the fact that you can't buy You can't buy a
house anymore. Also having nothing to do with anything is
the other stuff that well, you know, buying up the
farm land and stuff like that, that has nothing to
(03:29):
do with anything. Don't get upset about it, don't worry
about it. It doesn't mean anything that the that the
hedge funds and everybody else is buying up all the
houses or the farmland. That is absolutely irrelevant and has
nothing to do with anything. And I will not be
political ever again. So that's real estate in business law.
So you know the interesting the COVID You may remember this,
(03:53):
this was the this was the pandemic, and different people
had different views about the pandemic. And so of course
I would never express of you on the pandemic because
I wouldn't want to upset anybody, because gosh, upsetting people
is very bad. So I would not want to do that.
And so you know when we talk about the the
fact that you can't distinguish the pandemic in the rearview
(04:15):
mirror from any other flu season, Like some people would
say that, would I say that, I guess they just
did it anyway. The point is millions, hundreds of thousands
anyway of small businesses were wiped out during the pandemic.
What does that do well? That's some people would say
that it's a tragedy, and if you were one of
(04:35):
the small businesses that get wiped out, I sympathize, But
it's also an opportunity. And it does seem as if
there are people who are moving in now. Who are
you know, regular folks, small business people, people who didn't
have businesses before who are now kind of filling the gap.
The rate of new business formation is very high. We
haven't seen any new stats yet. I imagine next year
(04:58):
won't be a kind of a fun nomenal the year
for that. We'll see. Who knows. But if you're looking,
if you're looking around and say keepers, you know, the
dry cleaner went out of business, that this person went on,
I see the opportunity, and you're thinking I could do that,
you know, I might, you know, I could do my
kid could do that, or that kind of thing. Small
(05:20):
business right formation? What have you? Give us a call
six one six seven, seven four twenty four, twenty four.
We'll get your question, comment or concern on the air.
You know. That's the that's the thing with you know,
as things are developing, right, it's like, look for the opportunity.
(05:41):
There's the you know, the old you know saying that
chaos brings opportunity or something like that. My wife, who
many of you know is Chinese, she she explained the
there's an idiom, there's a Chinese idiom, and she's got
it on the wall and the characters and all that.
That explains much better than I can exactly what is
(06:01):
meant by that. But it is true that in chaos
is opportunity. All right, So have we been going through
a fairly chaotic period, and I would start with the
with the COVID and continuing right, so we've had some
very very fundamental I think fundamental I think looks at
(06:23):
the world right, looks at how we do things and
why we do things and all the rest of it.
And frankly, I'm kind of optimistic. You know, this elder
loss stuff that we you know, moves rattling on about
what most folks do not realize. And you talk about
this government, you know, Elon Musk with the rocket ships
and all that, you know, with the rocket ships and
the electric cars and the digging holes in the earth
(06:46):
and putting brains and chips in your brain and stuff
like that. Okay, anyway, one of the things that he,
you know, he and that the Indian guy, the Vake Bramaswami.
Don't you love saying that name. It's almost like it's
like you have any Polish friends when you can name,
(07:06):
when you can pronounce a Polish name or a Greek
lass name and you get it right. It's like, I
don't know about you, but it's so cool when you
can get it right. And it's like golfing. If you're
golfed right and every eight times you hit, you actually
hit the ball, and so it keeps you going. It's
sort of like that when you're talking about, you know,
(07:28):
saying one of these you know, like a Greek class
name or Italian. Sometimes I screw that up to a
Polish last name and you get it right and it's
such a victory. It's like whacking a golf ball, which
I can't do that either, but Ramaswami, it's one of
those where you got it right and you know you
got it right, and it feels good to Nobody knows
(07:49):
what I'm talking about, which is fine anyway. These two
guys smart characters, very smart, and what they're trying to
do is streamline government. Hey, that's not a bad idea, right,
I mean, maybe you should get what you pay for.
And in this whole elder law thing that we've been
doing for thirty years now, three or four years now,
(08:09):
one of the things that makes you scratch your head
is the amount of waste that goes on here because
for the longest time, the only thing that was available
for folks was traditional residential care, you know, assisted living,
that kind of thing right where you had to actually
(08:30):
go there, and if you were in continent, then you
went to the skilled nursing, which was the next level
of which was the really expensive stuff. And the fact
of the matter is that for a very long time
there's been a program called PACE program P is for program,
A is for all Inclusive, C is for care E
is for elderly, okay, And the fact of the matter
(08:53):
is that an awful lot of folks in the residential
care programs didn't really need to be there because they
didn't really need that much care. They needed care, right,
they needed they needed whether it was personal hygiene or
the supplies or whatever. And they needed to be simple, okay,
(09:14):
But they didn't need and they needed socialization, they needed transportation,
they needed stuff. There were things that they needed, but
they didn't really need to move out of the house.
They could have stayed at their home, and most of
them it was the single family home, some apartments or
kindos or whatever, but they didn't really need to give
(09:34):
that up, okay, But there was nothing else for it's
that's what there was except for this little teeny tiny
program called Pace, and there was another program called the
Waiver or my Choice, which was which is there are
two different programs, but they're both primarily designed to keep
you at home, okay, because you know, ask around. There
(09:58):
aren't a lot of people who are signing up to
go into long term care, like, oh boy, I can't
wait till I go into long term care. Boy, that'd
be that'll be super great. I don't know anybody like that,
but there is, there is. There are these programs which
are ridiculously efficient, you know, much much much lower cost
(10:21):
than a residential care program. It's what people actually want, okay,
and you still got to qualify for it, and we'll
talk about that how you can how you can do that.
But there are these programs, Like I said, there are
programs out there that are available that you should really
be looking into before you look into a residential care situation.
(10:45):
And it fits right in with this idea that musk
which is no challenge to say, that's an easy one.
But Ramaswami, you know that's that's more difficult anyway. Anyway,
with these smart guys are doing This is like an
obvious one because it's very obvious. It seems like to
me even listening to the David Carrier Show. On David Carrier,
(11:08):
your Family's personal attornal prayer of Thanksgiving for blessings we've
known through the.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Years, to join hands and thank the creator.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Now and Thanksgiving this due.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Read for fun.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven seven twenty four. This
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Let me talk a little bit
more about this whole at home care because it just
seems very timely, becau because if what we're trying to do,
and it seems we are trying to do it, is
to lower the cost of providing services. Right, Here's here's
(12:10):
a low hanging fruit. Here's an obvious one. Okay, And
like I say, we've been using it for decades now,
and the inherent validity of it, benefits of it. The
goodness of it is that it's been growing with very little,
(12:33):
it seems to me, very little encouragement. You know, we've
got people who recognize what needs to be done, and
they're doing it. They're doing the good work out in
the vineyards and all the rest. But there hasn't been
a lot of attention paid to it. Most people have
no clue that this is out there and it is.
This is a wonderful thing. Not as good as it
used to be for reasons I don't explain, but it's
(12:55):
as good as anything else. It's better than anything else,
still better than anything else. Six seven seven four twenty
four twenty four. If you have a question, comment or concern,
that's six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four,
and we'll get your question on the air right away.
You know, if you've got will, trust, probate, you know,
(13:16):
any of those things. You're going through it right now,
if you're thinking about doing it, if you've got a
loved one who needs care and you're wondering, well, what
is the what is this pace thing all about? How
can they stay at home? See here's the thing, here's
the thing that absolutely if we could do better at this,
I think we do better in a big way. And
(13:37):
that is when we've got spouses caring for spouses at home. Okay,
According to New York times, about forty percent of the
time it's men caring for women. Two thirds of Alzheimer's
victims are women. So it's no surprise that you know,
this is a this really is a two way street.
We get sold this idea that you know, it's men
explaining women and women do all the work. Well, god knows,
(13:58):
they do a lot of the work, there's no question
about that. But frankly, you know, men and women have
been cooperators. They've cooperated with each other more than exploited
one another throughout it. I mean, that's how it goes. Okay,
that's I mean, how do you get here without cooperation?
The answer is you can't. And so one of the
(14:20):
myths I guess of the whole long term care thing
is that then it's you know, men get the dementia. Well,
men die first, as that's for sure, right, they do,
you know, six to ten years before women do. And
you know, let's face it, we're frail creatures. And but
the fact of the matter is that men are providing
(14:43):
a lot of care. So you know, let's not be
in denial about that, Okay, that it may very well
be your wife, the wife that has the that has
the need. So this is a two way street. That's
all I'm trying to say. This is a two way
street benefits every body. What's better than that? Okay, here's
(15:04):
the so, here's the here's the thing that you see.
What happens is that spouses tend to take care of
spouses for a very long time, right, sacrificing or as
they would view it, righteously spending everything they've built up
for the lifetime, right, all the life savings and everything
(15:25):
they've got. You know, it's like, well, sure, rich or poorer,
sickness in health, Well, this is health and this is
this is sickness, and this is poorer. And that's what
I signed on for. And I'm like, I honor the
very much. I honor the impulse. Okay, I think that's
very I think it's noble. I think it's it's wonderful.
They should write books about it. On the other hand,
(15:46):
without detracting in any way from that or from the
from the care that you're giving to your spouse. Right,
there's why should you go broke doing it? Okay, if
you already aid for services that can help you out,
and the fear is always they're gonna put me in
a home. They're gonna put me in a home. They're
(16:08):
gonna put me in a home. And I don't mean
my home, I mean one of those places. And you
know who really hate putting their loved ones in a
long term care facility? You know who hate it the
most people who work in long term care facilities. Okay,
they they come in, they say, I've worked there. There's
(16:29):
no way my parents going there. Okay, fine, then no problem.
Which is why it is so important while your finances
are still intact, your life savings are still intact, to
go to the other programs that enable you to stay
at home. Okay, because if you if you start paying
(16:52):
the three bucks an hour for helpers or one hundred
bucks an hour for actual nurse, you're gonna be broke
before you now, and then there's no alternative. Okay. You
got to be a little bit proactive here in order
to maintain your agency, in order to maintain your ability
to choose money. Is choices, Okay, that's what it is.
(17:16):
It's choices. You get to make choices when you have money.
When you don't have money, like your life savings, then
you're going to be broke. And when you're broke, you
get whatever they feel like giving you. Is there any
surprise to this? Okay? I don't think these things seem
very very obvious to me. I mean from I started
(17:39):
helping on a paper route when I was seven years old,
and by nine I had my own with my brother.
My brother market I ran that paper root route twenty
two Providence. Anyway, the point is, the point is, once
you get a couple of bucks, you can buy a
comic book if your mother will let you, which she didn't,
so we have to buy bubblegum carts. But anyway, the
point is that money is choices. If you have money,
(18:02):
then you get to buy stuff like care like services.
And you've been working your whole life building up those
life savings so that your choices will continue to matter
when you're older. But then they don't matter. And the
reason they don't matter. Your choices don't matter, it's because
you went bro because you thought, well, i'll just go
this one step further. I can do that, okay, And
(18:25):
one step further. I can do that. Okay, one step further,
and before you know it, you're off the cliff. This
was exactly what my father I was imagine me telling
this stuff to my own dad, you know, back in
the day, you fifteen years ago, when my mom needed
care and my father. I'm just David, I'm just putting
one foot in front of the other, one foot in
(18:45):
front of the other. And I'm like, that's exactly the problem,
because you keep putting one foot in front of the
other right out into the middle of the desert. The
desert's a bad place to be. You're going in the
wrong direction. Or maybe you know, one foot in front
of the other, right off the cliff. These are bad things.
You don't need to do them. You shouldn't do them.
What you need to do is you need to change
(19:07):
your mindset because there are very very good, beneficial things
that are completely consistent with your values. Oh, I don't
want to go at home. You wanted to take care
of your spouse, didn't you? Didn't you? Wasn't that what
this was about? Okay? Good, Let's you take your Social
Security don't you? You use Medicare? Don't you? Of course
(19:28):
you do? Why because you paid in, You paid in
for all of this. Okay, this is all How do
we be consistent, consistent with our values to get the
best outcomes? Okay, I'm not asking you anything you don't
want to do. Six one six seven twenty four twenty
four is the number to call. You're listening to the
David Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
It wor.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Then well line all up to Stree Way with the
hundred sign. Sure who's stressing un to lose them?
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Man? David's got the how too. You're looking for Just
call seven seven four twenty four twenty four. This is
the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Good well, come back to the David Carrier Show on
David Carrier your family's personal attorney. Now's the time to
give us a call. Six one six seven seven four
twenty four twenty four. That's six one six seven seven
four twenty four twenty four. If you have a question,
comment or concern, or if you're in the middle of
a jam you want to get out. I gonna make
(20:45):
a damn joke about jelly or something, but I can't.
Doesn't you know if you're jam jelly whatever. Yeah, it's
gotta be a jelly because jam don't shake like that.
That's right anyway. Six one six seven seven four twenty
four twenty four. That's number two. That's the number. Call
now here. Here's the thing we're talking about, how does
to solve all the problems of the nation while we're
(21:07):
solving your own personal issues as well. Pretty good? Huh,
not bad. Here's the thing. Too often spouses care for spouses,
which is not too often that that's what you're supposed
to do. That's good, we love that, but without like
(21:27):
really kind of facing the facts that this doesn't get better.
Dementia doesn't get better. Unless it's a urinary tract infection
and have some pedicilin you'll be fine. But generally speaking,
it doesn't get better. It gets worse, okay, and nobody
likes to admit that, and nobody we'll just put up
with it. The fact that the shoes are in the
refrigerator and the milk is in the closet, well, that's okay,
(21:51):
he just being funny whatever, Probably not anyway, long story short,
if you could. In the fear of course, let's recap that.
The fear of course is that you're gonna wind up
in skilled nursing or in assisted living or something. You're
gonna go out of the house. And nobody likes that.
That's nobody likes that. But we've got Ray on the line. Hello, Ray,
(22:15):
Welcome to the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Hey Dave, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Just perking and working and having a ball. It's Thanksgiving week?
Speaker 1 (22:25):
You know.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
It's Thanksgiving week? It is How could I be doing?
How could I be doing badly during Thanksgiving?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
That's very true?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So Ray, how can I how can I be of
assistance this morning? How can I give you a reason
for thanks?
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Well? I have a question on our mds when they
have to be done and all that. Okay, I am
seventy three working full time. I have a four to
one k at work. Most of it is in the raw,
so I know that's not an issue. But the stuff
that's in the traditional for one k, how does the
(23:13):
R and D start working?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
My understanding is you have to start taking them once
you've meet reached the reach the age. But you you
were seventy and a half back before the.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
Back, before the age was up, right, Yeah, I'm saying,
you know, before they increase the age, right, I would
think so?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:44):
But yeah, I heard seventy four next month.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, if you're still working, right and you don't, is
it your own business?
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Now?
Speaker 3 (23:57):
I've worked for a company.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Okay, Yeah, So let's see if you if you're still
working past age, you know the age, you don't have
to take it until after you leave the job unless
you owe more than five percent of the company and
you don't own the company not at all, so you
can still yeah, so you can still delay taking them
(24:24):
from the from the current IRA. But my if I'm
thinking about that, if I'm remembering this right, if you
had four oh one K or from a prior job,
then you have to take those rm ds, but you
don't have to take them from the four oh one
K plan that you're currently enrolled in. I think that's
the difference. That's the difference there.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yeah, they don't give you any advice at the company there.
You got to kind of wing it yourself. Unfortunately tonight's
plan but no help.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, yeah, like so many well you know, do you
have any other iras or r m d s or.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Forumn case just this company here is still working full time.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
So.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, yeah, so it's it's not like it's not like
you know with Medicare. With Medicare, you don't get penalized
if you're still working and you're covered by a qualified plan.
You still they're not going to start jacking your Medicare
premiums on you, although you should apply for A and B,
but they're still not going to increase the premiums on
(25:32):
you so long as you're covered by a qualified plan.
So it's kind of like it's kind of like that,
you know, if you're if you're still working, But with
regard to like, like we've got people, this doesn't really apply.
I guess I was thinking people who created their own
(25:52):
rass or or fully paid convertible iras, if you did that,
those would not be covered. If what you've got is
only the four and one K where you're working, then
you're you're good to go on that.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, already, okay, plan to work for a couple more
years and then call it good.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Here's my advice on that one. Okay, all right, you
want to you want some more advice, free advice? Work
what you pay for it?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
All right?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
All right? Retire to something. Okay. You know, so many
folks retire from something and then they get all dislocated
and they wonder what the you know, what's going on
and stuff like that. So you've got plenty of time,
obviously to figure out what the next act. Don't retire
(26:43):
and think, well, I'll figure it out then, or I'll
just go fishing or what have you. Right, be planning
what it is you're gonna do next, the next act,
while you're still doing this one. All right, So especially
a guy like you, you know what I mean. Here
you are, your age seventy three, and you're still cranking
away doing the thing all the rest of it. I
(27:05):
know lots of people like you, including some who retired
and regretted it simply because you know, you always had
something to do. You want to see the accomplishment. Whatever
it is you're doing, it doesn't matter, you know, there's
that sense of accomplishment that comes from a job well done.
And if you don't have a job to do when
you retire, you know, look, think about it this way.
(27:30):
If you're at home you have to watch the view.
You don't want that, Oh my god, it'd be like
one of those you know, is this heaven or hell?
Oh my god, I'm terrible. So have something in mind,
That's all I'm That's all I'm saying. Have something in
(27:50):
mind when you do decide finally to hang up the spurs,
you know, be going to something else. Right, So important
When my dad retired was busier than ever. You know,
back in the day they had they read the newspapers
on the radio. There was a he read the newspapers,
he did this, He did all kinds of stuff Mom too,
(28:11):
you know, and I think it was so important. You know,
Dad lived in ninety six and Mom was in her
early eighties when she passed. And I think I think
their enjoyment and everything else was so you know, they
had eight kids, and they worked like crazy. They're very
busy lives. But when they retired, they retired to something.
(28:31):
So Mom was running the through shop and doing crafting
fairs and stuff like this, and you know, Dad had
a whole full play of stuff to do, you know,
to keep meaning in your life. I just think that's
so important. So especially for a guy like you, you're
seventy three, still making it happen all the rest of it.
Do not retire to the recliner. You regret it, Okay,
(28:55):
So don't do that.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I'm going to go work with my son, who will
a business of his own.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Hey, perfect.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Oh yeah, I he couldn't just sit on the couch.
That's just not me.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, you got it, man, you got it. Yeah, exactly.
Well that's exactly it right, right, and if you and
if you're.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
What's that, sir as just said? I love your show,
keep it up, listen to you every Sunday morning.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Thank you, Ray, I do appreciate it. Take care now,
have a good Thanksgiving alrighty. So, but but but you
know that's really the key, right, I mean, keep doing
stuff that keeps you active, that keeps you you know,
my dad, like I said, one of the things he
(29:48):
would counsel me on constantly is, oh, don't ever retire.
You know, if you retire, nobody cares what you think anymore. Uh,
you know, stuff like that. And yet he was sort
of you know, he was volunteering. You know, he can't
very much, very much engaged in things, not only his
(30:09):
personal hobbies would working and what have you, but also
outside the home volunteering and doing stuff. So it's it's
very good to be working. As long as you want
to be working. That's great. That find purpose and meaning
in that, that's wonderful. He's going to help out a sun.
That's great too. All good stuff, right. Not everybody has
(30:29):
those opportunities, So we all have the opportunity to do
meaningful things. So do things that are meaningful. That's important.
Even listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family is personally attorney and.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
The move is The Carrier Show on news Radio with
thirteen hundred and one six nine f M.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal personal attorney. There you go six one
six seven seven four twenty four twenty four. That's six one,
six seven seven four twenty four twenty four. That's the
number to call you'd like to get your question, comment
or concern on the air. We've got Jerry on the line.
(31:25):
Hello Jerry, Welcome to the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Hi, thank you. I have a question about the Secure Act.
I was going to open a couple CDs for the grandkids,
and from what I understand, I think it would have
to go to my daughter and the grandkids would be beneficiaries,
and that there's a limit of seventeen thousand per person.
(31:52):
Grandkids are fourteen and sixteen, and I was wondering if
the money would go to my daughter, and then I
if I open two, I would be over the fourteen
or the seventeen thousand dollars limit. I'm going to my daughter.
So what they have to do like December and then
(32:14):
a January gift and wondering about the five year look
back also with those.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Okay, So, Jerry, are you married?
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Okay, okay, And so it's eighteen thousand. I think what
you're referring to is the eighteen thousand exclusion amount from
the gift tax gift in a state tax, and it's
actually thirty six because you're married and you're presumed to
have done a joint gift or a split gift, no,
(32:46):
a split between if you give the money, you presume
to split it with your spouse. So now it's thirty
six thirty six thousand. Now here's here's the twenty six
million dollar question, Jerry, within five million dollars? What are
your worth? What your net worth? Within five million?
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Maybe one?
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Okay, then you don't have to worry about it at all. Okay.
The Secure Act has to do with iras and whatnot. Okay,
inherited iras? All right, this seventeen and it's really eighteen
thousand dollars. Exclusion has to do with the estate and
gift tax. And for a married couple, you really don't
have to start worrying about it till you're north of
(33:29):
twenty five million, because that's where now. It may they
may cut it back to fifteen million or something, but
again you and I aren't going to have to worry
about that, Okay, no problem, right, So you can give it.
You can you can give it to your daughter if
you want to, you can do it. You can give
(33:50):
thirty six one thousand dollars to each of your grandkids,
you and your wife together if you want to, and
not worry about the not worry about it, but understand
that it's not really a problem. It's not really a
problem with regard to the gift tax or anything because
that doesn't kick in. You don't have to worry about it.
(34:10):
Unless you bought Tesla stock. You're not telling me about it.
You know it's not gonna kick in until you know
millions and millions, So don't worry about it. And there's
no I don't think there's any possibility they might. They
might let the tax cuts expire, so then it would
bring it down to like I don't know, ten or
twelve million, but again, no issue for us, okay, So
(34:33):
we don't have to worry about that now here's the thing.
If you if and you were asking me about the
five year rule, which has to do with long term care,
with the Medicaid and all that. Okay, So the way
that we generally plan estates, this is the way we
do it in my place. We go through the workshop
(34:53):
and this is what we do as sort of the
default like for everybody. Okay, simply because I can't. I
don't want to bet on long term care. I don't
want to bet on that. So we always do what
we call the protection trust, that to medicate devestment trust
in addition to a revocable trust. So we do them both. Now,
(35:15):
the reason you don't want to actually go out and
gift savings type money to grandkids is that if within
the five year period something happens and you need to
pull it back, you can't pull it back. You know,
you can do a uniform gift to minors act or
a five twenty nine or something like that. And you say, well, okay,
(35:36):
if I put my money, if I put the money there,
I'm not going to get it back. But if it's
a five twenty nine, Medicaid won't count that money against you. Okay,
it's still a divestment when you give it, but it's
not it's not accountable asset. When you figure out when
you actually go and to figure out the medicaid, you
still have the five year window. So what we suggest,
(35:58):
you know, what the safest thing to do is when
you do a PLA and I'm understanding you do however
you want to. But what we do is we kind
of allocate that money within the devestment trust five years
at when the when the coast is clear, so to speak,
right when the checkered flag goes down and we won
the race, and that money is still in the account
(36:19):
invested however you invest it at that point, then you
can transfer it into the five twenty nine okay, but
you put it in the divestment trust first, because if
we need to unwind it in the next five years,
I'm not going back to the grandkids saying, uh uh,
you know I need give me the money pack you
(36:40):
know what I mean. You don't want to be in
that position, right, So that's but that's the that's the
approach we we always take, right, So we put the
house in the trust, we put the CDs and the
mutual funds or whatever else, not iras because you can't
do that and you can't put those in trust. But
we put all the rest of it in this Medicaid
Devestment Trust, so that five years later it doesn't count.
(37:03):
We've had too many cases where where people were And
then if you want to help out the kids from there,
even in the five years, right and you look at things, y, yeah, yeah,
I think we're pretty good. We're pretty good. Then you
do it from that devestment trust because now it relates
all the way back to when you put when you
created the trust and you put the assets in there. See,
(37:25):
so three years into it, you know, you're not looking
at five years, You're only looking at two sure, two years, okay,
because you got to make it to that five year,
sixty month finish line. And so once you create the trust,
it creates a lot of flexibility. So we have people
who were you know funding you know, the Christian School
broke your school education whatever. For the grandkids, well, that's
(37:48):
all divestment. But if you put it in the devestment trust, okay,
and then you pay it from the devestment trust. If
you make the five years, you're good to go. But
you can pay it out over the next five years,
and every time you pay a tuition bill, you know,
because you started the clock in twenty twenty four, the
(38:09):
fact that you're making the payment in twenty twenty eight
doesn't create a new five year period. It relates all
back to twenty twenty four. You say, okay, yep, so
I really like what you're doing. That exclusion amount that
confuses everybody. Everybody thinks it's all the oxen free on
the eighteen thousand and we have people, you know, did
(38:34):
you give any money away in the last five years?
Speaker 4 (38:35):
No.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
You start going through the records, it's like, what the
hell is this money? You told me you didn't give anything, Like, oh, oh,
that's under the you know, ten thoy, fifteen thousand, whatever
they think it is. I was eighteen. That's under that amount.
So it doesn't count. It's like it doesn't count for tax,
for gift tax or a state tax. That's true. You
really don't have to worry about it. Technically you should,
(38:57):
but you don't. You know, it doesn't as a matter,
it's irrelevant. But but it doesn't have anything to do
with the medicaid. Do you see all right?
Speaker 4 (39:10):
How does the nurse at home know or find gifts
that are given, you tell them.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
They ask you, and you tell them, and if you
don't tell them, you can get your long term care
in Jackson or Ionia.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Okay, makes sense. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Thanks. Yeah, you're very welcome. Take care. You've been listening
to the David Carriers Show on David Carrier. Your families personally,
I get that question all the time. It's like, how
do they know well because you volunteer. Because when you're
applying for the UH for the Medicaid, right, they ask
you and you tell them. And here's the deal. If
(39:49):
you do it correctly, they might be sick as mud.
It doesn't matter. You followed the rules. You did it correctly.
I checked all the boxes. Here's a copy of the trust,
here's a copy of the transfers. This is why we
bird dog you through the whole process, because if we don't,
then I'm not going to have all the records when
I need them. The way we do it, we do
(40:09):
have the records, no problem. I'm Davy Carrier, your family's
personal attorneys to do bit sameful