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December 15, 2024 • 30 mins
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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:13):
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hello, man, welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, and you have found the place
where we talk about a state planning, elder law, real
estate and business law. So give us a call. Why
don't you sixty one six seven seven four twenty four
twenty four. That's sixty one six seven seven four twenty

(00:54):
four to twenty four will get you a question, comment,
or concern on the air. Now we talk about a
state planning mostly when people talk about a state planning,
when they talk about it, which whoever talks about it.
But if you did talk about it, if you were
that kind that guy who's going to talk about it. Uh,

(01:14):
you know, it's will, it's trusts, it's how do I
get my stuff when I'm dead to whoever it is,
I want to get it right. That's what Uh, that's
what the state planning is all about and uh, well
kind of a limited view there in my opinion, but okay,
that's what that's what you're talking about. So if you
have a question about that, somebody says, hey, mom, dad,

(01:35):
have you done your will yet? You know, and after
you cross them off the Christmas list notes card this year,
you know, we maybe reflect on that a little bit
and think, hey, maybe now I forget about it. No negative,
don't want to talk about it, don't want to think
about it, and that's okay. Then the next the next
thing we deal with the course is the elder law.

(01:56):
What's that about? Well, that's about the part while you're
still alive. That's more positive, you bet you nothing more
positive than older law. But here's the thing. You only
come to see us about the elder law. Part of
it really on your own, on your own when things
are crashing, burning, just absolutely the worst situation. And even

(02:20):
then most people still don't do it. Most people. It's
amazing there are people listening to this show right now
who I've been nagging at you. What a horrible person.
I am right to be nagging at you like this,
especially in the Christmas season. Terrible, But anyway, I've been
nagging at you to say, hey, hey, you know you've
been caring for your loved ones for you know, a

(02:42):
couple of years. Now. Money's getting down thirty bucks an
hour for the teenager with three hours of training, and
you know what do you know, Oh, you can get
it for twenty five hours an hour. That's a bargain there, wonderful.
Try to get a registered nurse for less than one
hundred bucks. Good luck. Anyway. The point is you keep

(03:04):
walking one foot in front of the other. I'm very
familiar with this because it's exactly what my dad said
to me umpty ump years ago, you know, when he
was garing for Moham and kids were hoping out. But
it's like, you know, just one foot in front of
the other was his? Was his? H Well that's what
he said. You know, I'm just putting one foot and

(03:24):
I'm like, Dad, you're walking off the cliff. We've got
this all in place. Why aren't you telling me? Why
aren't we implementing this? We need to get this, We
need to get this done. And not just done, I mean,
because the plan had been in place for ten years,
the question was, oh, you know, why don't we implement implement, like,
actually do something, because everybody thinks you got to go broke.

(03:45):
Well I don't know why they think that. Well, I
know what they think. That's because what everybody does, that's
the most popular, the most popular thing, right, You've got
to love the one with long term care. The most popular,
accepted wonderful thing to do is to spend it all
and go broke, which is like completely unnecessary and I

(04:07):
just think it's damaging totally, but that's what people do.
It's very popular. Well, if you don't want to be
the popular kid, boy, that's a that's a good sales pitch,
ain't it. Hey, don't be popular, you know, be be weird,
don't go broke. Well, you know, not going broke is
a good thing, but it's not what people it's not

(04:27):
what people do. Very frustrating, you know, especially folks who
know what we do and I don't know what is it?
Do you guys just not believe us? Do you not
believe that this works? Anyway? Six one six seven seven
four twenty four twenty four. That's six one, six seven
seven four twenty four twenty four. If you're karing for
a loved one and you've been thinking oh this is

(04:50):
this isn't for me. I need to go broke like
the Joneses dead and the Smiths did and mc gillicutes did,
because going broke is noble and wonderful. A Okay, who
am I? But I will tell you that that's what
that elder law part's about. Now. Mostly it's done poorly.
I understand that most of the state plans done poorly too,

(05:12):
in my opinion. You know, here we are in the
season of giving and love and everything else, and I'm
being arrogant and dismissive. But hey, yeah, well you look
at enough of state plans as I have over the years.
By Kraky, you'd be justified anyway. Six one, six, seven, seven, four,

(05:35):
twenty four to twenty four if you're wondering how to
get it done right, because there are people doing it right,
lots of folks doing it right. Thousands and thousands, tens
of thousands of folks over the last thirty five years
have done it correctly. You don't have to go broke.
You don't have to sacrifice anything. I know, I know
you talked to the financial advisors. You said you had to.
You went to the people on the big towers right

(05:58):
with the name on the outside. Yeah, I know they
told you that, I know. I know. Well, give me
a call that doesn't cost you anything, coming in, that
doesn't cost you anything, find out what you're right to
are that doesn't cost anything. Right, you might as well,
or you can go broke. I mean, it's good a
one hundred percent of to you, God bless you. Anyway.
Six one, six, seven, seven four, twenty four, twenty four.

(06:21):
We also, of course do real estate and business law.
And the fact of the matter is it's pretty tough
to do estate planning elder law without doing real estate
and business law because guess what, people with businesses also
need long term care. People with real estate, uh, you know,
would just soon not lose it, you know, like a house,

(06:42):
a house that's real estate. So anyway, six one, six, seven,
seven four, twenty four, twenty four. If you're one in
a one, the heck is this guy groaning on about
every single week when it comes to this stuff. Now
here's a fun thing. If if you're already a client, right,
or if you're one of our Red Wagon Club members,

(07:03):
next Friday at my Thursday, Thursday the nineteenth, keep making
that mistay. Next Thursday is the quarterly meeting. That's where
we get hundreds of folks together and we go over
some of this stuff. Not really. We we have lunch
and we have fun stuff going on. You know, you

(07:24):
get your who knows, who knows? It'll be a surprised
as it always is. You know, are we going to
do Hawaiian shirts this time? Is it going to be
Baseball Caps? Is it going to be who knows? You
got to come and find out anyway, you know, just
give us a shout at the office. You have the number,
and we'll get you. We'll get you signed up. We
still have well you know, it's so big over there,

(07:46):
it's pretty hard to fill it up. So you know,
we're we got hundreds, I could say that now, hundreds
coming and it's always a lot of fun. You get
to you get to meet other people, just like you
see the beauty part of these quarterly meetings. You know,
if you're already client, right, you're not a client, you

(08:07):
got to go through the process. Sorry, But if you're
in the Red Ragon Club or if you're a life
plan member, because we did the planning for you, you should
have gotten a postcard. We sent out nine thousand of them. Okay,
so you should have gotten your postcard. It's the one
with the comics on it, right, Very amusing, very fun. Anyway,

(08:29):
the purpose of this, see so often what happens is
people they get their plans done, they get these documents,
they don't really know what to do with them, and
so they don't do anything with them typically except put
them on the shelf down in the basement where they
get moldy and stuff. And that's kind of the end
of it. So what we're trying to do with weekly

(08:50):
every single week, you can come to the office, come
to our trust review meetings every single week two hours.
One of our lawyers will be there. We video them.
You can do it on zoom if you want to.
You can pick up the phone and participate that way.
How I can make it easier, I don't know. But
that's every single week. Every month, we have visiting experts,

(09:10):
we have you know, some sort of social thing. We
did the museum, we done the Boo Park, we did
the all kinds of stuff. And then every quarter and
this is what's coming up next Thursday, December nineteenth, Okay,
December nineteenth. That's where everybody gets together at the Gardens
and Sculpture Park. Got to remember that from Drick Mynor
Gardens and Sculture Park, you know, and spend a few

(09:33):
hours with people just like you, just like you, right,
people who've done this kind of planning, compare notes, you
know whatever, and then we'll do our state of Union address.
You know. That's where I get up on the stage
for until you start throwing rock and fruit at me
answering questions, you know, I got out a little spiel

(09:53):
and then answering questions and then enjoy the gardens. You know,
there's all the Christmas trees out there and what have you.
So that's what it is. That's what it is this time.
And of course it's lunch and this and that, and
like I say, you get fun stuff to take home
with you. But that's how that's how we keep your
estate plan fresh. That's how we don't let it just

(10:15):
slide off into moldy papers down in the basement and
hopefully somebody will find it at some point. There's no
way to do it in my opinion, even listening to
the David Carriers Show, I'm David Carrier, welcoming you, inviting you,
begging you to come to your our Christmas event and
that's said next Thursday, Myra Public Gardens and Sculpture Park.

(10:40):
I'm David Carrier, your family's personally curtain.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
Dream.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
It's bigger.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
David's got the how too you're looking for Just call
seven seven four twenty four twenty four. This is the
David Carrier Show.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, and I ain't no Alex Jones
as as the car I recently said, he's right, I'm
I admit it. Let me just get I got to
hear his the microphone anyway. Six one six seven seven
four twenty four twenty four. And that's six one six

(11:42):
seven seven four twenty four twenty four. You know this
whole idea of I like the drone thing because we
like explanations that are bigger perhaps than we are, and
sometimes right, sometimes I right. I'm not saying everything's wrong

(12:04):
what people perceive, but if you've got you know one
of the most heavily traveled air traffic corridors in the world,
namely the East Coast, with lots of people with small
planes and hobbyists and everything else. And then all of
a sudden, somebody looks up in the night sky and says, oh,
look at that. It's size of a car. It's well,

(12:28):
maybe it's helicopter, you know, and maybe it's a long
way away, and maybe it's winter and maybe you've got
your hat on and you know this And one of
the things he points out, which I think is fair point.
You know, you go to this apparently flight tracker flight
radar flight radar I think was the name of it,
flightradar dot com, and it shows you radar tracks and

(12:50):
all of a sudden, they don't have a destination, they
don't go anywhere. Well, my dad, when he got older,
he's probably younger, that was what he did. Anyway, point
is he he always wanted to fly, So we got
a private pilot's license. They're a good old kick cad
and instead of buying him anything else, we brought him

(13:10):
flight flight hours and he would go up and then
you know, Assessa, rent Assessa for an hour or two
and go find around and come back and go to
the islands or something Martha's Vinger and Nantucket and you know,
and it was all general aviation where you didn't file
a flight plan. There wasn't you know, you didn't have
a transplant around the aircraft that kind of thing. Plus,

(13:32):
you know, if the Russians are gonna invade, because I
saw some of these on the news, I mean there's
something out there. There's something flying around out there. Yeah,
for sure there is. Okay, But if if the Aliens
are coming, why do they have regulation flashing lights? I mean,
I mean, did the FAA approve the spacecraft before they

(13:53):
came in or something? You know, that's what you spot
these things because there's lights on. Well, yeah, there you go. Oh,
we've got Sandra on the line. Hello, Sandra, welcome to
the David Carrier Show. Rescue me from these drones. Sandra
didn't hang up, did she? Hello?

Speaker 3 (14:19):
Hello?

Speaker 5 (14:20):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (14:20):
No, she was inducted by the lands. There's there you are.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Hello, Okay, okay, I heard you about I have a
home about selling my home. It's been in a protected
trust for thirteen years and we're selling it. And I
talked to my lawyer and he said that the proceeds

(14:43):
from the sale of condo they have to be made
out to my protection trust. When I went that's right, okay.
When I went to the title office, the check that
she gave us is made out to us, and I
said it needs to be out to a protective trust,
and she said that can't be done. You have to
do that at the bank.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
That's Bologney. You your your that's blogoney, your your closing statement,
your hud won your closing statement needs to show that
you're selling it from the trust. Okay, and the check
cannot be made out to you. You do not want that,
So they just don't want to do the paperwork. I'm

(15:26):
sorry about that. But when did when did the closing happen?

Speaker 3 (15:32):
It did happen. It's done, And she argues, when did when?
When it happened Thursday?

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Okay, you haven't cashed the check, have you?

Speaker 3 (15:44):
No? We have not. I her again, and I told
her to avoid the check and we do the paperwork,
and she insisted it couldn't be done and that she
was right.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, okay, that's
kind of human nature, right, tell you what, give us
a shout on Monday. This is the first time you've
gotten us. It's our trust, right, right, it's our trust, right?

(16:17):
Is it? Is it our trust? Yeah? Yeah? Well, do
we do the trust? I'm asking did my firm do
the trust Okay, perfect then yeah, yeah, yeah, so we
this is something that's happened thousands of times, many thousands
of times. So no problem. I'm sorry for the I'm

(16:39):
sorry the whoever's working at the time company doesn't get it.
But but call us on Monday and we'll get involved, okay,
because well because you do have.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
The big thing is we are moving to Virginia and
we're leaving Wednesday. And I did call your calls on Monday.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Pardon yeah, it call us on Monday for crying out
loud because the trust. Look the way the trust is
set up, the way the trust.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
David, I just called your firm on Friday and tried
to get an appointment to talk to Troy, who we
have been working with, and they told me I couldn't
get one till at the end of the month.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah. So nobody didn't
understand the urgency of the situation.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
Well, let me talk to you. I got him a point,
well to talk talkt to Christopher on Monday afternoon. Can
the changes be made before we leave on Wednesday.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
It's just a matter of the title company reissuing the check.
It's a matter of the title company understanding that. So
we need to we need to go above who whoever
it was you're talking to, and we just I told her.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
I told her that I would have Christopher Troy called her,
and she said that would be fine, but she couldn't
do anything. Well, he can't. I couldn't talk to him
until Monday. And we're concerned because we're leaving Wednesday and
need to get this taken care of. But we did
not cast the check. And when I got home, I

(18:27):
realized we had made an error, and I've tried to
do it myself, and she won't listen to me.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, I got to, I got I'm sorry for that.
I mean, but you're absolutely right. I mean it should
have been because the house has been in the trust
for thirteen years. The house is the excuse me, the trust.
The trust is what's selling the house. So the trust
comes out of the house. Excuse me, The house comes

(18:55):
out of the trust. See now I'm flustered. It's the drones. Anyway,
the house comes out of the trust. The money goes
into the trust. And even though you're moving to Virginia
or any other state in the glorious Union, that your
trust is going to work because it's based on the
it's based on the Depthicit Reduction Act of five. It's
based on the federal law. So trust law may vary

(19:18):
from state to state, it's still Michigan trust law that
applies to your trust, and the whole devestment aspect of
it is federal. So it'll work wherever you go. It
has worked. I mean for lots of folks, you know.
I mean, not everybody stays in West Michigan. Forever, they
go to Florida, Arizona. Trust work. It's just a matter

(19:39):
of we we just gotta we just gotta bump in
a road there, so we need to talk to you.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
About it.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, well well well well uh, as a matter of fact,
there's something we do with the trust that we don't
talk about a lot to rescue this kind of situation.
But you don't want to put on the life jacket
if we can get it done correctly. Okay, So there
is a solution, even if you had deposited to check,
there's a solution, but let's not use that. That's the

(20:13):
emergency brake, that's the you know, the fail safe plan.
We don't have to use that because you were very smart,
very smart, and you didn't catch the check. That's good.
We just need to get it reissued and the the
the what you call the HUD one, your your closing

(20:34):
statement just needs to be needs to be redone so
that forever in the day we can prove that you
sold it from the trust because you're absolutely right when
when the protected you do it. It's a Medicaid devestment trust.
So when the divested asset comes out of the trust,
we've got to put the divested money back into the
trust because if we put and then you put it

(20:57):
in the trust, now I got another devestment. Now, Like
I said, we've got a solution for that inadvertence, you know,
in case that happens inadvertently, but I don't want to
use it.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
If I keep my appointment with Christopher for Monday afternoons,
you can help us get this done.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, what I'd suggest. What I'd suggest though, is uh,
you know, I'll be in at about a thirty, so
give us a call around around then I'll tell I'll
tell Taya as for Tea. She's my assistant, all right,
So as for Tea, and I'll tell her Taya t
A y a, Okay, okay for tea, all right, and

(21:44):
then we do we already have your do we already
have your closing statement, the closing packet from the from
the UH title company. Yeah, we already have that. Okay, good.
Then I'll take a look. I'll take a look at
that and we'll get on the horn first thing in
the morning. Okay, it shouldn't think it should thank you?

Speaker 3 (22:04):
Thank you?

Speaker 2 (22:05):
Oh yeah, no problem. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
It's just sometimes on Sunday morning when I'm exercising, I
listened to you. I thought, well, David Carrier Show.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Oh you know, that's what I tell folks. If ever
you need to get a hold of me, you know
exactly where I'm going to be for two hours a
week here. It is good job, that's.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Right, I found out.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
All right, we thank you sand.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Okay, bye bye.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
There you go. I know you've been listening to the
David Carrier Show. On David Carrier, your family's personal attorney,
beautiful side.

Speaker 4 (22:46):
We're happy to night walking in one David's perkins and
working and taking your calls.

Speaker 5 (23:05):
Now this is the David Carrier Show. Well, welcome back
to the David Carrier Show. I'm David carrier in your
family's personal attorney. I thought maybe I would take a
few minutes and explain what that last call was all about. See,
when we set up a plan, and this is true
red wagon club conventional, what have you? We use what

(23:27):
they there's so many words for. We call it the
protection trust.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Okay, it's a trust where when you put assets into
the trust, you trigger the five year look back period
for medicaid divestment. It's a divestment for medicaid purposes. Now,
you don't give up your two hundred and fifty thousand
dollars apiece for a married couple exclusion on the sale

(23:51):
of your principal residence. You don't give that up. You
don't give up your principal residence exempt, you don't give
up any tax benefits whatever, when you put the asset
in the trust. But what you do is you trigger
the sixty months six zero month, the five year look
back period for the medicaid because it's the investment. What

(24:12):
that means is that five years later they don't care
that you have the asset. That's how that's how screwy
this is. I mean, it's a screwy system, but it
is the system and you know, would you rather go
broke or you know. It's like anytime you interact with government,
they've got rules. There are ways the rules work. You
either know how they work or you don't know how

(24:33):
they work. If you don't know how they work, well,
you know, good luck to you. But I prefer not
to rely on luck when it comes to dealing with
the government. I prefer to rely on having read this
stuff and figured it out, and then to comply. Compliance
is the key. You always have to what you want

(24:54):
to do. My advice it is always strongly to come apply.
If they say to do it, you do it right.
Don't argue with them. We don't argue with them. Well
unless they get it wrong, and they get it wrong,
then we do argue with them. But basically what we're
doing here is we're using the law like tax law.

(25:15):
You know, people who can deduct home mortgage interest. You
know the interest you pay on your home mortgage. Oh
that's a tax loophole. No, it's just the way the
laws written. Either use it or you don't. And if
you don't use it and you give the government more
money because you think the government knows how to deal
with your money better than you do. God bless you.
I don't have any I don't have any problem with that.

(25:38):
You know, if you'd rather give back your Social Security,
if you'd rather say, oh I don't want any of
that Medicare stuff. Oh no, no, no, no, I've got
too much money. I'll pay for my own here replacement. Sure,
go ahead right home. You know, don't comply and don't
get the benefits that you've learned. Who am I to

(26:00):
Who am I to argue with you? Nobody? But if
you'd rather not give everything away, if you'd rather hang
out to what you have earned, you know, in full
compliance with the rules, well I can tell you what
the rules are and how to comply with the rules.
It's all about compliance. They tell us how high to jump,
We jump that high and then and then we get

(26:22):
the benefits. And that's the idea. Now, when you do
a protection trust like we do, and you put assets
into the protection trust, right, as long as they're into
the protection trust, there is an element of control that
you have. This is why you don't lose any tax
benefits because the irs didn't think you did anything. You
didn't alienate those assets. They're still yours as far as

(26:44):
the Internal Revenue Service is concerned, but as far as
the medicaid folks are concerned, Oh, you gave those things away.
Great if I keep real control, as the IRS would say,
you know, my tax benefits and I get five years later,
they don't care that I have a cottage, a house,

(27:05):
savings insurance policy, whatever it may be. Well, let's use that.
Let's you know, let's recognize that that is what the
law says. All right, and then you know, just as
you take home mortgage interest or whatever. So what's happening
here is we've got somebody. So when you sell the house,

(27:26):
right now, you get your house in the trust, the
house protected. They don't care. But now you sell it
and the house comes out, okay, the house comes out
of the trust. Well, you have to put the cashi
money back into the trust. And if you don't put
the cash money back in the trust, if you're right
to check to the individual, right, which is apparently what
happened here. Now the person's got the money. Ooh, I

(27:48):
don't want you having the money because if you take
the money and now you put it in the trust,
guess what, that's a new devestment. That means you're starting
the five year process all over again. And these people
did it thirteen years ago, God bless them. Okay, there's
no reason for this. And we've got a clerk at
the some title company who knows who says, oh, no,

(28:11):
it's got to go in your name. No, it doesn't,
and then supposed to. In fact, if you read the
certificate of trust, if you read the by cell agreement,
all the rest of the stuff that should all go
back into the trust. Now for the typical garden variety
when everybody else does. Situation where you've got a revocable

(28:34):
living trust, revocable living trust, the typical thing that people
do to get it to the kids when they're dead right,
they're not doing any other planning, they'll go broke further
blah blah blah, okay whatever. Then, yeah, you could give
the check to the trust, or you could give it
to the individuals themselves. It doesn't matter because they can

(28:54):
put it in the trust. It doesn't you're not trying
to do anything with that. You just have a a
play and they can write it and deposit it into
the trust account with no negative consequences. Do you see,
It's only if you're it's only if you're trying to
do the good thing that you have to do it correctly.

(29:15):
And you know, the shame of it is that most
people one put them, they don't have the house in
the trust. And they have a trust, but they don't
have the house in it. And when they sell it,
they sell the house, they take the money they put
in a personal bank account, and now it isn't even
protected from the from the probate, which is why you
would do it or only do a revocable trust. You're
not thinking, in my opinion, you're not thinking about it.

(29:38):
So that's the that's what's going on there. If it
comes out of the trust, the house comes out, the
money goes in. And if you want to change your investments,
you know you like the S and P five hundred. Oh,
I think I'll buy some Tesla. I think I'll buy
some SMP five hundred. I think I'll buy whatever. Fine
one goes out the other one comes in. But it

(29:59):
doesn't it goes out of the trust, it comes back
into the trust. It doesn't make a detour to the
individual because the way the trust is set up, it's
a grant or trust. You get all your tax benefits,
don't worry about it. You're in this case. The clerk
just made a mistake. We'll get them straightened out. Life
is good. You've been listening to the David Carrier Show.

(30:20):
I'm David Carrier. Your famili's personal it's attorney.
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