(2025) 11-2 David Carrier Show Hour 1 Podcast

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
He graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees
from Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law
for over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's
time for the David Carrier Show.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, and you have found the place
where we talk about a state planning, elder law, real
estate and business law. So if you have a question,
a comment or concern, question in comment or concern about
will's trusts or probate, if you're wondering, you know, why
do you older folks go broke all the time? You

(00:39):
know what are they spending all their money on? You know,
you save and you save thirty forty fifty years. You know,
you make sure that you you know, you're thrifty, you're frugal,
you clip the coupons. Now all of a sudden, wild spending,
wild crazy spending means you're broke, broke, broke. How does
that happen? Is it the you just found out about

(01:01):
slot machines, you know, video slot machines at the casino.
I've seen those. Oh they've got cartoons on them and everything,
and people put a lot of Maybe that's where maybe
that's where the older folks are going broke because they
finally found out about video slot machines, or or maybe
maybe they learned I don't know, maybe they wanted to

(01:23):
get rich quick or something and decided to buy a
gold mine in someplace, or who knows. Where do you
think the money goes? Huh, jeepers, Maybe it's cable TV,
maybe it's what do you where do you think? Why
do you think so many middle class saving people, people
who've got IRA's four one k's CDs paid off the house.

(01:48):
Why are they mortgaging the house again? Why are they
running through all their savings? Huh? Why? Boy? It's a mystery.
It's a mystery until you realize that long term care
is eighteen thousand dollars a month at a skilled nursing facility.
Although I'm aware now of a place where it's only
twelve thousand a month. My low my low watermark used

(02:08):
to be thirteen to five, but now it's not twelve thousand,
only only four hundred dollars a day. What a bargain? Huh?
That's where the middle class goes to go broke. Well,
is that a good way to put it. Yeah, that's
the refund which regular folks go. See, here's the thing.
Here's what do I have to promise you know when

(02:29):
you when you work with us, is that you won't
like it. Okay, I mean I'm not here to tell
you happy stories or well I am kind of why not.
But you know, it's like, nobody likes doing this stuff,
but it's it's the thing that you do in advance
so that later on it works. Like last last week,
we had three families, all of whom had worked with

(02:53):
us for years and years and years and at this
point and now was when they finally needed needed, needed
the care. And was it? Was it fun? Was it?
You know? Did it make them slimmer? Did it keep
their hair?

Speaker 1 (03:07):
No?

Speaker 2 (03:09):
But what it did do was make sure that their
spouse is going to be just fine despite the fact
that now we've got a dementia situation or we've got
a physical situation, that kind of thing. So, yeah, I
know that you hate doing this stuff. I get it.
Nobody nobody works with us. You know. It's like when
you work with people who are starting a business, all right,

(03:32):
or running a business something like that. Well, you know
that's all that's all positive stuff, right, because we're looking
to the future and building something and we're going to
make it rich and all the rest of that, right,
depending depending on what it is they're getting into or
or with real estate, you know, people buying a house

(03:52):
or a cottage or something like that. Very positive stuff,
very positive. But most of the estate plan, mostly the
state plan we do, is all, oh, I'm going to die. Yeah,
you're gonna die. Sorry about that, that's going to happen.
But that's not the worst part, you know. I mean
that's the thing everybody, everybody all worried about death, right, Oh,

(04:13):
I gotta avoid probate, save taxes, get it to my kids,
you know, deliver it. And it's like when you when
you take that attitude, of course, it's negative. I mean,
I'm going to die, you know, but I don't want
it to be worse for my kids. And instead people
focus on that, right, And yeah, I get it. Nobody
wants to do that. Nobody decides Oh boy, I can't

(04:35):
wait to you know. That's what I say in my
and my webinars. You know, it's like the first thing
that's true is you don't want to be here, right,
you don't want to be listening to a webinar about
death and disability and all the rest of it. But
the good news is I supposed to. Bad news is
that this old world keeps us spinning around, as Frank

(04:58):
Sinatra saying, you know, we keep it keeps happening, right,
time keeps going. I don't make the time go. You know,
it's the great timekeeper of the universe who keeps the
time going. It ain't me, but but all too often
what you see is people just you know, shut their eyes,

(05:19):
screwm tight, stick their fingers in their ears, and pretend
that nothing, nothing's gonna happen, or you know, you wonder
what is it, what is it people are thinking, if
they're thinking at all, which which I doubt. I think
that people aren't really. I think people don't really think
about this stuff. Now you're tuning in, so of course
you you're the good people, You're the insightful ones, you're

(05:39):
the you're the people who who get it. But uh boy,
I mean, it's just this past week was it was
just a real affirmation. It wasn't an eye opener because
it's happened before, but it was a matter. And those
were just families I met with. I know other people.
You know, we've got more more folks where they laid

(06:02):
the groundwork five, ten, fifteen years ago, and now it's
coming to fruition, and you know, it's difficult. It's hard
when you have a couple comes in or a single person.
One was a single person who's it was a relative
where they come in and it's like, okay, I can't

(06:26):
do this anymore, or the spouse can't take care of
the other spouse all by themselves anymore. And in a
couple of cases, two out of the three cases, the
spouse was in denial about this. So if you're caring
for your spouse and your spouse is in denial about
about what's actually going on. My mom was that way.

(06:48):
It was, you know, she insisted on doing the taxes
long after she was able to do the taxes. And
needless to say, if my dad had what my mom
had prepared, it would you know, it'll be big trouble. But
somebody didn't. You know, he had the my brother in

(07:08):
law of the accountant, take a look at it and
fix it all up. But you know, that's the sort
of thing that that's the sort of thing that can happen.
And the good news is that like my folks who
who did planned, you know, kind of insistent on it.
If if you've planned a head for it, it works
out pretty well, you know. And by pretty well, I

(07:29):
don't mean I don't mean we're going back to when
we were thirty or forty or fifty. I don't mean
reversing the effects of dementia or anything like that, or
physical disability. I mean, you can't do that. That doesn't happen. Okay,
you can't. That doesn't happen. Just to say, but I'll

(07:50):
tell you what. It's a different life. It's a different
life for you, for your spouse, right if you can
overcome the denial, if you you know, if you are
not broke, if you have a plan, you work the plan.
It's a different life for the caregiver. You know, the caregivers.
Caregivers die almost as often almost you know who dies first, caregiver,

(08:15):
the care care receiver, you know, the person who needs
the care who dies first. It's almost fifty to fifty.
It's almost fifty to fifty. Because spouses will kill themselves.
That's what I say. That's how I say it, spouses
will kill themselves taking care of the other spouse serious business,
and they wear themselves out. I mean that's you get

(08:37):
people come in the office and they've already worked, they've
already done the plan, they've already done the plan, and
now they've gone through a year or two, lots of
them year or two of caring for a spouse beyond
their ability to do that. And now they finally come
in and these are people who have planned for this event, right,
who've actually put a plan. One case, we expected this

(09:00):
was like ten years ago. We expected that the other
spouse who had some physical disabilities was the one who's
going to need the long term care, the medicaid, right,
And in fact it was the other one who finally,
you know, had the dimentsia. So it happens all kinds
of different ways. There's a million different ways that this
stuff happens. But the key, the key is recognize it,

(09:23):
don't deny it, you know, I mean the planning that
people do, really it makes a huge difference when that
when that time comes and most people aren't doing it.
You know. Most of the time, Oh, I have a trust,
I have a will, I have a Poltary are. Most
of the time, this wasn't even on the horizon this

(09:43):
sort of thing. For me, it's always been front and
center because it's obvious that that's what's going on. Now.
I know that nobody likes to talk about it, nobody
likes to think about it, et cetera, cetera. But there
it is. Oh one other thing, one other thing. I
got bone to pick this somebody I gotta I got

(10:05):
a Facebook something or other, you know, or a comment
or something about how how they would never work with
somebody who did a comb over? Right, Well, you know,
is it a combover? If you can't see it, you
know what I mean, it's almost gone. So yeah, I
haven't shaved it, but I'm not about to either. But

(10:27):
you know, it's just what's up there is up there,
and that's the way it is. So it's not really
a comb over. So there you go. Whoever and honestly
posted about how I had a come over. Anyway, you're
listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your
family's personal attorney. Yeah, we're just gonna let that play

(10:48):
for a little bit. Anyway, Welcome back to the David
Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney. It
looked like a Notre dame was gonna have some trouble
in Boston with Boston College last night, but yesterday afternoon.
But yay, still one pulled it out anyway. Six one
six seven seven four twenty four twenty four. That's sixty

(11:09):
one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four. That's
the number to call if you'd like to get your question,
comment or concern on the air. That's six one six
seven seven four twenty four twenty four. You know, you
can go over to the website anytime you like. That's
David Carrier Law. When we're Davidcarrier Law dot com. And

(11:29):
on the web page. On the website, go to the website.
We have our special our brand new are well six
months now, I think not so it's not brand new,
but it has been constantly updated. It's our AI artificial intelligence.
Some people would think that I should get some artificial intelligence,

(11:49):
then i'd have some at least some intelligence. I've heard
that and it hurts my feelings, but I'll get over it. Anyway.
Go to the website and if you just wait and
you don't have a pop up blocker on the little
AI thing will pop up. And the nice thing about
it is one of the nice things about it is

(12:10):
you can type your question in if you'd like. You
can talk to it if you'd like. It's not legal advice,
of course, but you know, because it's computer, but it'll
navigate you around the web page, around the website, so
you don't have to go looking for stuff. It makes
it a lot easier if you'd like to do that.

(12:31):
And it's been I mean, thousands of folks have used
it now and the reviews are very positive. Like I said,
it's not legal advice. It's not going to tell you
what to do, but it will give you general sort
of guidance, you know what I mean. We have to
be really careful on that. And we trained it on

(12:51):
my stuff, stuff that I've been stuff that I've been
doing right along, so it'll be you know, not the same,
but in that direction, you know what I mean. It's
like you remember learning the Dewey decimal system. Well I
never learned it, but I know you're supposed to. You know,

(13:13):
how to find stuff in the library, Well, very difficult
to find stuff. I mean, that's why we had the
Dowey decimal system. And so what the website does, what
the AI assistant mostly does, I think, is it helps
you find things that you're looking for. All right, it's
not really advice, but it will give you, you know, places

(13:34):
to look. It'll tell you stuff. And like I say,
if you have a microphone, speakers, you know, if you
have a laptop, or it works on the cell phones too,
if you have that. It doesn't do everything like like
we do an analysis that you can't get on your
cell phone. There's some things that you can't get, but

(13:55):
most of most of it you can if you want
to sign up for a workshop. And these are the
workshops that you hate to go to. I understand. I
mean it's difficult, difficult to go to a workshop because
what do you what are you saying when you go
to one of these is like, oh no I might die,
Yeah yeah you might. Oh no, I might need long

(14:16):
term care, yeah you might. Oh no, I want to
make sure my stuff doesn't go to the nursing home
or whatever. Yeah yeah that might happen. Those are all
those are all true. That that's what it means to
go to one of our one of our our seminars
one of our workshops, and you know, we call it

(14:37):
workshop for a reason. You're going to do some work
at it. Actually it's I mean, you hate to do it,
but at the end of the day, you know, I mean,
it's it's a tough it's a tough gig. I have
to recognize that most people don't like doing what we
what we have you do, but if you do it,
it works, it works out much better later on. And

(15:01):
so it's it's little crazy things that you know that
are not customary. That's another thing that that I hear.
It's like, oh, you're not doing it like the other
guys do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was kind of
the point, right, kind of the point is that you know,

(15:25):
go to well do the experiment, you know, talk to
your financial advisor, talk to your financial advisor and and say, hey,
well what should I do about long term care? Oh,
we we have this account for that, or well you
want to buy long term care insurance? You know, that's
what that's what people talk about. And you go to
most attorneys, most lawyers, and this is my opinion, which

(15:48):
I have to say, it's my opinion. Fine, it's my
opinion that there's very little conversation about this stuff. You
get a pack of documents, you get a book of documents,
you sign them and see you later. And that's how
that's how it usually goes. That's the customary way. All
we're worried about. What we're worried about is avoiding probate

(16:08):
saving taxes getting to the kids, you know, and directly
to the kids. Not even any thought about how it
gets the kids. It's just give them a pillow case
of cash, and that's good. That's good. You know, like
these beneficiary designations or ladybird deeds that people do. And
it's like most of it, in my opinion, I have
to keep saying my opinion because if I don't say
my opinion then they then they say, oh, you're stating facts,

(16:32):
and you know you shouldn't be saying fact factual things. Okay, Well,
I mean, look around you. It's pretty obvious what's going on,
right that most people aren't prepared for this stuff, right,
most people just living in the well everybody else. And
this is the way they did it. This is the
customary way. I hate that word, gosh, customary way. Unbelievable. Well,

(16:57):
but but that is you know that is how I mean,
that's how so much, so much gets done is in
a customary way. This is the way we've always done it.
So the fact that it fails most of the time
for people who need long term care whatever, and the
fact that they're going broke, well, too bad for them,

(17:18):
because this is the way we've done it since Abraham
Lincoln wrote a will for Joshua Speed, his law partner,
which he did. Actually Lincoln didn't have a will himself,
but he did write one, which is which is interesting.
I mean, time and time again. And this is just
sort of maybe a little inside baseball. It's amazing how many,

(17:42):
how many stories you hear and it's just stories and
I can't testify, but about the state planning attorneys who like,
there was a guy last year who skied into a tree. Okay,
tragic situation, young kids, the whole nine yards, you know,
And did he have a will?

Speaker 1 (18:00):
No?

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Did they have a trust?

Speaker 1 (18:02):
No?

Speaker 2 (18:03):
This guy's in a state planning attorney and he doesn't
have it. And that's always kind of the amazing thing that,
oh they don't. They don't actually have an estate plan themselves,
you know, the complished kids have no shoes. But I
don't know how often that happens. I suspect it's quite
frequently because on a few cases we're younger estate planning

(18:24):
attorneys died by accident. It's like you're always hearing about
how they don't have a they don't have an estate
plan themselves, which kind of makes sense, frankly, because the
way it's done usually usually customarily traditionally whatever you want to,
you know, the accepted standard of practice, it doesn't work.

(18:48):
And who who knows better than that than the people
put them together, so they see that they don't work,
and it's like, well, why bother have one for my
bother had one for myself. It ain't gonna work anyway.
I mean, I don't know what the rationale is, but
you keep hearing these stories about, you know, estate playing
attorneys with that with no estate plan, and it kind

(19:08):
of makes sense because the way they do it, it
doesn't work. And as I was saying in the first
part of that, I mean, it's kind of cool when
years later people come back and now the estate plan
is working. It's going to make sure that the at
home spouse, the caretaker's spouse, doesn't go broke. It's going
to make sure they get all the care that they need.

(19:29):
You know, it's really it's really kind of neat. I mean,
keep you going. You've been listening to the David Carrier Show.
I'm David Carrier, your famili's personal attorney. Give us a call.
Why don't you just six one six seven seven four
twenty four twenty four. We'll get your question, comment or
concern on the air. Well, welcome back to the David

(19:49):
Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney. Now's
the time give us a call. Six six seven seven
four twenty four twenty four. That's six one seven seven
four twenty four twenty four. And now this is not
exactly stay planning an older law, but you know, real estate,

(20:10):
business law, the rest of that kind of stuff. And
maybe it might be helpful to understand a little bit
about what's going on with this government shutdown we got
going on here, right, thirty days, thirty one days, whatever
it is. And you wonder, well, wait a second, if
these guys are you know, one party is in charge
of presidency in the House and the Senate, why is
it still going on? And the answer is that from

(20:35):
time immemorial, right two hundred fifty years whatever it is.
In the Senate, you could fill abuster. Okay, So you
had to have a super majority of senators. Right, even
the minority party could could stop you from doing things. Right,
So you have a majority, you have see and people say, oh,

(20:57):
we're democracy. Democracy just means, you know, fifty one percent,
that's what democracy is. Right, Well, you know that's not
how this works. I mean it's and it's not everybody
with a vote on shutdowns and things like that. Instead,
there are rules and there's voting, and there's representation, and
so with's the republic, not of the market. Okay, you

(21:17):
get all that, but here's what's going on, you know,
And it's so ironic. They're like, oh, no, kings, it's
wait a second. The only reason, the only reason that
we had a shutdown is because the party with the
majority in the House and the Senate honored honored the rules,

(21:40):
right that were set up to benefit the minority. Right.
You got a minority party here, right, that is preventing
And it's not enough to have fifty one percent. You
got to have sixty out of one hundred votes in
order for the in order for the law of pass. Okay,
that's what's going on. There is a majority in favor

(22:03):
of funding food stamps. A snap, you know, is what
they call it. Now, Right, there's a majority in favor
of opening the government. There's a majority in favor of
all of these things. Right, fifty five I think that's
the count. Right, fifty four to fifty five something like that,
are in favor of doing those things. But you've got
you need to get six five or six more on

(22:25):
the minority party to go ahead. Do you see? So
when the people who are preventing everything from happening, because
and they're not even in the majority. See, that's the thing.
It's not like, it's not like you're trying to convince
the majority. The majority already thinks everything ought to be open.
The majority already thinks all this stuff ought to be gone.

(22:45):
The majority is kind of horrified about what's going on.
But because the minority, and because the majority respects the
rules of the organization. Not a tyrant, not a potentate,
not an emperor, not a king. Dare I say? Right? Instead,
because under the rules and traditions, et cetera, et cetera,

(23:08):
that have always governed, right, they're continuing on. That's what's
going on? You know, if you wonder, well, how come
they've got to get sixty votes. I thought there's only
one hundred of them. Fifty percent is good enough. It's
because and they could change the rule tomorrow. See, this
is the this is the thing they could They could
change the majority party could change the rule tomorrow and

(23:30):
say no, it's going to be simple majority. We're not
going to give any deference anymore to the minority. We're
not going to listen to them. We don't care, right,
which is what happened. Right where the other party was
the majority, they tore up the rules and now they're
surprised that, you know, but there's this little thing left
and one party, the tyrant party, supposedly is saying no,

(23:53):
we got to respect the rights of the of the
rights of the minority, right, because they're looking down and say, hey,
we might be minority ourselves someday. You know, this is
how for two hundred and fifty years at least, it
always work. But that has broken down. I mean, you
see a lot of radical stuff going on. And if
you wonder, why isn't it a simple majority enough, Why

(24:15):
isn't it you know, you would think, well, democracy says
fifty one percent wins in this anti democratic to allow
the fill butt. Well, that's an argument, you know, so
if you wonder, I mean, I'm listening to the news,
and it's like, you know, thousands and thousands of extra
people at food banks and pantries and all the rest

(24:36):
of it, because apparently there are an awful lot of
people who are actually relying forty three million people is
what they said. Fifteen percent of the population something like that.
I don't know, do the math are relying on these
on these benefits. The holy cow, who knew it was
fifteen percent of Americans you know, are doing this. But

(24:59):
apparently so okay, you know, if that's if that's the
way it is, But why are they stopped. It's not
stopped because a majority doesn't want it to be fixed.
A majority does want it to be fixed. It's just
that in the traditions of the US Senate, we've always
given power to the minority right up until sixty votes

(25:23):
at least two uh, to steiny things. And that's what's
that's what's going on.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
You know.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
It's not even like it's a majority of folks. That's
of the people who are representing us who are deciding
to do this. It's a it's a small minority. They
only need five more people to say, yeah, let's do it,
and everything everything works again. But I mean, so if
you're one, you know, you read the newspaper and you think,

(25:52):
what the hell is going on with this stuff? That's
crazy stuff. It's kind of crazy stuff. But that's what's
in my opinion. I mean, it's just so ironic. You know,
it's like, oh, the potentate. Well, if he's a potentate,
why doesn't he say off with their heads or I

(26:12):
don't know, not getting his own way anyway, It's kind
of crazy, a little bit of projection there. Have you
ever noticed that sometimes people project on other people what
they themselves are doing? They ever notice, maybe possibly consider that,
consider the possibility that that might be what's going on. Okay,
So here's here's another tale of woe. If I am

(26:33):
the age, oh and give us a call, why don't
just six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
That's six one, six seven seven four twenty four twenty four,
get your question, comment or concern on the air. Now,
if I'm the agent on my parents' durable power of attorney.
Can I monitor their bank account if I suspect fraud
of a family member. My parents are eighty three and

(26:55):
eighty five years old, have some memory issues, but they
do well taking care of themselves and their finances. But
I suspect the elder abuse by my sister who lives
with them, and her adult daughter. Holy cow, neither work
nor neither work. Neither one of them work. I guess
that's what this means. Neither one of them work, and
my parents completely support them. The sister and the daughter,

(27:17):
the niece, I guess, have taken over the home, and
my father says they just want their house back. He says,
the sister yells at them and curses at them, but
they don't know what to do. Really, they don't know
what to do. Huh. She took my mother's cell phone
away two months telling a mom that she had a virus.
She used the phone, she'd be arrested. I suspect she's
gotten a bank account. Yeah, that's a pretty good suspicion there, right.

(27:42):
I've reported things to Adult Protective Services. They said it
met the criteria for abuse and they would investigate. My
parents may be agent in a durable power of attorney.
That does give me an authority to monitor their bank
account for potential fraud. I do not. Now Here comes
the shocker in this whole thing. Okay, look, financial abuse
of the elderly is a pandemic, especially with dependent kids

(28:06):
and title kids taking over. You know, for mom and dad.
It's terrible and it happens and it's awful, all right,
But here's the show. And so they said, okay, we
can trust you, why don't you keep an eye on this? Right?
And then says I do not currently want to take over,
and I'd like to monitor behind the scenes. What how
much worse do you think this gets human sacrifice? I mean,

(28:28):
come on, what are you waiting for?

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Right?

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Does the durable power of attorney permit me to do this? Yes? Yes,
at a minimum, At a minimum it allows you to
It should allow you to do that. If not, it's
a allows the power of attorney. But I mean, the
amazing thing here is that we got sister and niece
who are living with mom and dad exploiting the hell

(28:53):
out of them. And you're like, I don't want to
get involved and do not currently want What would it take?
What would it take to get you to take I mean,
you know, I mean, the rest of it all makes sense,
but when it comes down to I don't want to
take over, well, all right, I understand the impulse. I mean, yeah,
you don't want to do it. But look this, if

(29:16):
you're thinking your kids are going to take carre you
all right, you think your kids are gonna take care
of even the good ones don't want to get involved.
That's reality. Deal with it. You've been listening to the
David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney,
inviting you to one of our workshops where we make
sure that this doesn't happen to you. Welcome back to

(29:39):
the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
Are you familiar? Oh, give us a call. I don't
just six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
That's six one, six seven some of them four twenty
four twenty four will get your question, comment or concern
on the air. Now, have you ever heard of the
U saying no good deed goes unpunished? Right, which might

(30:04):
help us to understand why the other you know, the
last one we just talked about, why, Well, don't really
want to get involved, right, don't want to step up
at this point. I don't know when you would step
up if you don't want to step up in that situation.
But the point is that frequently the kid who does

(30:26):
the most gets it in the neck. And this is
just another example of here's another email. I'm a mom's
caretaker for years now, I've been accused of abusing my
mom physically. I was never informed or told about these accusations.
I only found out because the social worker called my
daughter told her that mom couldn't come home because there's
an elderly abuse investigation against me. No one has spoken

(30:50):
to me about this, nor have they told my mom.
She fell back in September Burah to the er. They
checked her over, released her. She continued to on a
decline at home. This is not unusual, I mean, this
does happen. Okay. They checked her over and released her.
She continued to client at home. She stopped eating and
was getting more weak. I brought her back to the hospital.

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They admitted her and sent her off to do rehab
to get her steady and walking. It was a horrible place.
She spiraled down immediately. Done sounds like she was doing
particularly well to start with, right, I called nine to
one one to come get her back to the hospital
to get reevaluated. She's been in the hospital ever since.
And again I'm very kept in the dark about all this.

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Nobody tells me a thing this point. I'm very stressed.
I'm worried about mom's health, getting her better so she
can come home. And now I've been made to deal
with this entire ordeal. This is a nightmare. Yeah, it
is kind of a nightmare. It is totally And this
is one of those situations and sometimes we have we
got another one where it's family members making the allegations
all right to uh and sometimes you know, you gotta say,

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sometimes the allegations are made in good faith, right, but
if they are made in good faith, then you should
be able to resolve them fairly quickly. And that's been
that's been my experience. You know, when you get when
you get that the call from Adult Protective Service or whatever,
and then you explain, well, here's what's really going on.
You know, the caseworkers, who my experience has been the

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caseworkers are very reasonable and very understanding, and look, they're
busy because there's a lot of real financial elder abuse
going on out there. There's a lot of neglect, there's
a lot of terrible stuff. And if that's not what's
going on, right, they just assume not make up a

(32:39):
case where there isn't one, okay, because you kind of
hear two stories about the response, and one is that
they're two or over zealous. Oh you know, there's nothing
really wrong here and they're trying to make something out
of nothing, or they won't respond at all. Those are
the two. Those are the two you know, things that

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you hear about Adult Protective Services or Department Health and
Human Services. You know that it goes, it goes both ways.
And generally speaking, as I say, that has not been
my experience. My experience has been that they're typically willing
to get involved when they need to get involved, right,
and if you can explain incredibly explained, you know, and

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here's the information. Here's that they've got plenty of real
stuff to deal with that they don't want to deal
with with phony baloney's stuff or the you know, or
a case where it's it's a he said, she said,
But in a case where it is a he said
she said, and you go to probate court and this
is really important. Okay, So you've got to understand that

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in these cases, it's very difficult to know who's telling
them the truth. All right. When you've got one kid
who's saying, oh, my sister's abusing mom, taking all their
money and it's all terrible.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Right.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
When you say that, then the APA Adult Protective Services
wants to get involved and wants to make sure that
that doesn't happen. Right, And if you go to probate court.
So here's the thing. So you got one kid who's
got the power of attorney or the trust or whatever
guardianship conservatorship, right, and then you go to or let's

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say there's no guardianship conservative ship because it's all it's
all privately done. It's all trust and power of attorney. Right.
And then one of the kids who hasn't been around
for years, and this is typical, right, they haven't been
around for years, and then all of a sudden they
see And I had two of these last week where
where it's like the kids from out of town who

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don't know what's going on are now second guessing the
kids who have been doing their best to take care
of parents. And let's face it, Okay, I mean when
parents get older and they're a little bit out of
cont control, you know what I mean, where they're not
in control the way they've been in control their whole life,
they tend to resent the person who's helping out. That

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just happens. You just have to open your eyes to
that reality. Okay. Now that doesn't mean that there aren't
people who take advantage of powers of attorney and trust
and all that there are, and they need to be
slammed and slammed down hard. But there's just a few
of them compared to the ones who are really doing
the good and righteous, the good and righteous thing. And
so you know, the way the probate Court's going to

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deal with that, right, if it gets in front of
the probate court is and I had to explain this
last week, is they're not going to just the court.
And you don't want them to just assume that everything's
hunky door. You don't want to assume that. So what
they do is they appoint somebody to investigate the point
a point, an attorney, an independent attorney for the person,

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for the incapacitated person, right, and then they grant the
temporary guardianship to that attorney frequently right or to a
guardian endlightem and then and they set aside powers of attorney.
And you know, in this case they had both sides,
the brother and the sister who were fighting, you know,
the one sibling who was taking care and the other

(36:20):
one who was challenging. They had both of them as
co guardian co conservator, which, as you can imagine, would
be hillacious if they had to go on for any
period of time. But you know, very quickly, you know,
within about six weeks there's going to be are investigation
and then a hearing to find out what's what's really
going on. And the people with the power of attorney,

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the kid with the power of attorney's like, oh, you know,
I can't believe that this is happening. And actually actually
I had to explain that that you wouldn't want it
any other way. So if you get, you know, some
allegation of hey, terrible things are happening and I'm willing
to come into court and testify that those horrible things

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are happening, then you don't want the court just to
pooh pooh that stuff or into protective services to you know, oh,
you know, forget about it. No, you want them to
be active in defense, you know, and do all that
at the same time. At the same time, you have
to be on your guard because when all these people

(37:28):
are human beings, and when perceptions you know first, you
never get a second chance, make a first impression all
the rest of it. And when perceptions are first formed,
those tend to be persistent and it resistant, persistent and
resistant to contrary evidence. Okay, so you got to get
in there. You can't just let it, just let it

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go by. You got to put your best foot forward.
You've got to explain it all Like this one. They
we got another one where they gave a whole bunch
of evidence and they're just ignoring it. At this point,
it's just kind of bouncing off. That happens, right, You
can't wait with this stuff. If you're being accused of
this kind of thing, you've got to confront it. You've

(38:11):
got to be active about it because you wouldn't want
APS or the probate court to not take an interest.
On the other hand, you've got to forcefully represent yourself
or have an attorney, and probably best bet with the
attorney frankly represent you. You've been listening to the David
Carrier or shoe. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.